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politicalbetting.com » Blog Archive » Sanders’ odds are far too short for Iowa: no-one should be odd

SystemSystem Posts: 12,170
edited February 2020 in General

imagepoliticalbetting.com » Blog Archive » Sanders’ odds are far too short for Iowa: no-one should be odds-on

The Iowa caucus is one of those things that no-one in their right mind would invent if it didn’t already exist. As a democratic process, it flouts goodness knows how many rules of good practice, from high barriers to participation to non-secret voting to a lack of consistent process. However, it’s possible to get too precious about process. The caucus does exist and has survived, whatever its flaws, because it tends to work.

Read the full story here


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Comments

  • FishingFishing Posts: 5,052
    Excellent thread, and as ever hard to disagree with the conclusion.

    I should add, though, that I'm at a disadvantage in talking about the Democrats as most of my US political contacts are Republicans.
  • SandpitSandpit Posts: 54,616
    Second, and Happy Brexit everyone!
  • Brexit and already the sun has disappeared. In Iowa, it is not just a question of who is transfer-friendly but who will be losing these transfer voters in the first place after failing to reach the 15 (to 50) per cent threshold in any particular precinct.
  • Sandpit said:

    Second, and Happy Brexit everyone!

    There you are now.
  • Very good summary from Nigel Harris, editor of RAIL magazine as to why HS2 costs rose and why Johnson will think he can control them. ..

    https://www.skyscrapercity.com/showpost.php?p=166117432&postcount=22902
  • DecrepiterJohnLDecrepiterJohnL Posts: 27,933
    edited February 2020

    Very good summary from Nigel Harris, editor of RAIL magazine as to why HS2 costs rose and why Johnson will think he can control them. ..

    https://www.skyscrapercity.com/showpost.php?p=166117432&postcount=22902

    From that report: Perhaps this is why Sajid Javid is suddenly so in favour of HS2. He’s a former financier and worked in infrastructure deals before becoming Chancellor: he might well have cottoned on to this insane procurement model and ordered it to be dropped for the later parts of the project, north of Birmingham. Javid significantly added that no HS2 alternatives either give better value or are practical, which suggests he’s become intimate with the facts. Even the inconvenient ones.

    And this follows yesterday's reports that: Downing Street anger over 'ill-disciplined' Javid’s attempt to hijack HS2 decision
    Boris Johnson’s relationship with Sajid Javid under renewed strain after Chancellor's intervention in rail project row

    https://www.telegraph.co.uk/politics/2020/01/30/downing-street-anger-ill-disciplined-javids-attempt-hijack-hs2/

    So taken together we have HS2 going ahead and a reminder that for Number 10, as with Trump, Truman was wrong. It is amazing what can be accomplished provided Saj gives Boris the credit. And by Boris, we mean Dominic Cummings.
  • MarqueeMarkMarqueeMark Posts: 52,609
    For me, Iowa boils down to this: those polled can randomly say what they like. But are the politically engaged class who go out, in whatever winter weather gets thrown at them*, prepared to give Trump the political pass of four more years by choosing Sanders? That will be the topic in those numerous conversations being had.

    My best guess is they will shy away from Sanders as being unelectable come November.

    *light cloud, moderate breeze, just below zero is predicted
  • Brexit remonstrates with itself.

    https://twitter.com/Albert_HEO/status/1223420195106103297?s=20

    'Don't do that, it puts us in a bad light' isn't the greatest moral bar to clear but it's a start I guess.
  • MysticroseMysticrose Posts: 4,688

    Very good summary from Nigel Harris, editor of RAIL magazine as to why HS2 costs rose and why Johnson will think he can control them. ..

    https://www.skyscrapercity.com/showpost.php?p=166117432&postcount=22902

    From that report: Perhaps this is why Sajid Javid is suddenly so in favour of HS2. He’s a former financier and worked in infrastructure deals before becoming Chancellor: he might well have cottoned on to this insane procurement model and ordered it to be dropped for the later parts of the project, north of Birmingham. Javid significantly added that no HS2 alternatives either give better value or are practical, which suggests he’s become intimate with the facts. Even the inconvenient ones.

    And this follows yesterday's reports that: Downing Street anger over 'ill-disciplined' Javid’s attempt to hijack HS2 decision
    Boris Johnson’s relationship with Sajid Javid under renewed strain after Chancellor's intervention in rail project row

    https://www.telegraph.co.uk/politics/2020/01/30/downing-street-anger-ill-disciplined-javids-attempt-hijack-hs2/

    So taken together we have HS2 going ahead and a reminder that for Number 10, as with Trump, Truman was wrong. It is amazing what can be accomplished provided Saj gives Boris the credit. And by Boris, we mean Dominic Cummings.
    And Johnson likes grandstanding. Look at his Estuary Airport idea, which I thought was actually great. I'm pretty sure he will get behind HS2 and really get behind it.
  • Good morning, everyone.

    Hope the wind dies down soon.
  • OldKingColeOldKingCole Posts: 33,466

    Very good summary from Nigel Harris, editor of RAIL magazine as to why HS2 costs rose and why Johnson will think he can control them. ..

    https://www.skyscrapercity.com/showpost.php?p=166117432&postcount=22902

    From that report: Perhaps this is why Sajid Javid is suddenly so in favour of HS2. He’s a former financier and worked in infrastructure deals before becoming Chancellor: he might well have cottoned on to this insane procurement model and ordered it to be dropped for the later parts of the project, north of Birmingham. Javid significantly added that no HS2 alternatives either give better value or are practical, which suggests he’s become intimate with the facts. Even the inconvenient ones.

    And this follows yesterday's reports that: Downing Street anger over 'ill-disciplined' Javid’s attempt to hijack HS2 decision
    Boris Johnson’s relationship with Sajid Javid under renewed strain after Chancellor's intervention in rail project row

    https://www.telegraph.co.uk/politics/2020/01/30/downing-street-anger-ill-disciplined-javids-attempt-hijack-hs2/

    So taken together we have HS2 going ahead and a reminder that for Number 10, as with Trump, Truman was wrong. It is amazing what can be accomplished provided Saj gives Boris the credit. And by Boris, we mean Dominic Cummings.
    And Johnson likes grandstanding. Look at his Estuary Airport idea, which I thought was actually great. I'm pretty sure he will get behind HS2 and really get behind it.
    The Estuary Airport 'idea' was actually a rehash of something from the 60's which was turned down then as impracticable.
  • Good morning, everyone.

    Hope the wind dies down soon.

    It is saving a lot of gas in the power stations though.
  • malcolmgmalcolmg Posts: 43,359

    Brexit remonstrates with itself.

    https://twitter.com/Albert_HEO/status/1223420195106103297?s=20

    'Don't do that, it puts us in a bad light' isn't the greatest moral bar to clear but it's a start I guess.

    I saw the handful of sad sacks that constituted the unionists celebrations in Scotland, what a small bunch of neanderthals. They could not get out of double figures and looked a real bunch of knuckle draggers.
  • OldKingColeOldKingCole Posts: 33,466
    malcolmg said:

    Brexit remonstrates with itself.

    https://twitter.com/Albert_HEO/status/1223420195106103297?s=20

    'Don't do that, it puts us in a bad light' isn't the greatest moral bar to clear but it's a start I guess.

    I saw the handful of sad sacks that constituted the unionists celebrations in Scotland, what a small bunch of neanderthals. They could not get out of double figures and looked a real bunch of knuckle draggers.
    Morning Malc. Health at your place improving, I hope.
  • Brexit remonstrates with itself.

    https://twitter.com/Albert_HEO/status/1223420195106103297?s=20

    'Don't do that, it puts us in a bad light' isn't the greatest moral bar to clear but it's a start I guess.

    Bet you have a secret stash of Butcher's Aprons in your garden shed you regularly bring out for burning.
  • squareroot2squareroot2 Posts: 6,729
    malcolmg said:

    Brexit remonstrates with itself.

    https://twitter.com/Albert_HEO/status/1223420195106103297?s=20

    'Don't do that, it puts us in a bad light' isn't the greatest moral bar to clear but it's a start I guess.

    I saw the handful of sad sacks that constituted the unionists celebrations in Scotland, what a small bunch of neanderthals. They could not get out of double figures and looked a real bunch of knuckle draggers.
    Malc you really should go to bed earlier, or leave the Scotch alone, either that or you are eating far too many turnips. You always wake up grumpy, or is that just the way the Nits are?
  • TheuniondivvieTheuniondivvie Posts: 42,002
    edited February 2020
    malcolmg said:

    Brexit remonstrates with itself.

    https://twitter.com/Albert_HEO/status/1223420195106103297?s=20

    'Don't do that, it puts us in a bad light' isn't the greatest moral bar to clear but it's a start I guess.

    I saw the handful of sad sacks that constituted the unionists celebrations in Scotland, what a small bunch of neanderthals. They could not get out of double figures and looked a real bunch of knuckle draggers.
    Still, Murdo thought it was great.

    https://twitter.com/murdo_fraser/status/1223382965255843842?s=20

    He's still not clarified whether he thought the 'celebrations' being conducted by Scotland's leading Holocaust denier was a good thing.
  • OldKingColeOldKingCole Posts: 33,466
    malcolmg said:

    malcolmg said:

    Brexit remonstrates with itself.

    https://twitter.com/Albert_HEO/status/1223420195106103297?s=20

    'Don't do that, it puts us in a bad light' isn't the greatest moral bar to clear but it's a start I guess.

    I saw the handful of sad sacks that constituted the unionists celebrations in Scotland, what a small bunch of neanderthals. They could not get out of double figures and looked a real bunch of knuckle draggers.
    Morning Malc. Health at your place improving, I hope.
    Morning OKC, yes thanks, they finally discharged my wife last night. Scary first day as she is still very ill but she is delighted to be home and on way to recovery. I am head cook , bottlewasher, cleaner and pharmacist.
    Glad to hear it Malc. Onwards and upwards!
  • Mr. G, congratulations on your various promotions.

    Hope your wife returns to full strength soon.
  • MysticroseMysticrose Posts: 4,688

    Very good summary from Nigel Harris, editor of RAIL magazine as to why HS2 costs rose and why Johnson will think he can control them. ..

    https://www.skyscrapercity.com/showpost.php?p=166117432&postcount=22902

    From that report: Perhaps this is why Sajid Javid is suddenly so in favour of HS2. He’s a former financier and worked in infrastructure deals before becoming Chancellor: he might well have cottoned on to this insane procurement model and ordered it to be dropped for the later parts of the project, north of Birmingham. Javid significantly added that no HS2 alternatives either give better value or are practical, which suggests he’s become intimate with the facts. Even the inconvenient ones.

    And this follows yesterday's reports that: Downing Street anger over 'ill-disciplined' Javid’s attempt to hijack HS2 decision
    Boris Johnson’s relationship with Sajid Javid under renewed strain after Chancellor's intervention in rail project row

    https://www.telegraph.co.uk/politics/2020/01/30/downing-street-anger-ill-disciplined-javids-attempt-hijack-hs2/

    So taken together we have HS2 going ahead and a reminder that for Number 10, as with Trump, Truman was wrong. It is amazing what can be accomplished provided Saj gives Boris the credit. And by Boris, we mean Dominic Cummings.
    And Johnson likes grandstanding. Look at his Estuary Airport idea, which I thought was actually great. I'm pretty sure he will get behind HS2 and really get behind it.
    The Estuary Airport 'idea' was actually a rehash of something from the 60's which was turned down then as impracticable.
    It's not impracticable. Certainly not with current engineering. Lots of places in the world have built dramatic new airports. Hong Kong is one of my favourites.
  • malcolmgmalcolmg Posts: 43,359

    malcolmg said:

    Brexit remonstrates with itself.

    https://twitter.com/Albert_HEO/status/1223420195106103297?s=20

    'Don't do that, it puts us in a bad light' isn't the greatest moral bar to clear but it's a start I guess.

    I saw the handful of sad sacks that constituted the unionists celebrations in Scotland, what a small bunch of neanderthals. They could not get out of double figures and looked a real bunch of knuckle draggers.
    Malc you really should go to bed earlier, or leave the Scotch alone, either that or you are eating far too many turnips. You always wake up grumpy, or is that just the way the Nits are?
    No whisky for me these days or turnips. I am also exceedingly happy at present , except for the puerile jingoistic bollox that has infected England. Hard to believe how embarrassing it was to watch the state of the idiots celebrating last night. Sooner Scotland is back in the EU the better.
  • malcolmg said:

    malcolmg said:

    Brexit remonstrates with itself.

    https://twitter.com/Albert_HEO/status/1223420195106103297?s=20

    'Don't do that, it puts us in a bad light' isn't the greatest moral bar to clear but it's a start I guess.

    I saw the handful of sad sacks that constituted the unionists celebrations in Scotland, what a small bunch of neanderthals. They could not get out of double figures and looked a real bunch of knuckle draggers.
    Morning Malc. Health at your place improving, I hope.
    Morning OKC, yes thanks, they finally discharged my wife last night. Scary first day as she is still very ill but she is delighted to be home and on way to recovery. I am head cook , bottlewasher, cleaner and pharmacist.
    Great news Malc. Take it easy.
  • malcolmgmalcolmg Posts: 43,359
    Thanks to everybody for kind wishes.
  • squareroot2squareroot2 Posts: 6,729
    malcolmg said:

    malcolmg said:

    Brexit remonstrates with itself.

    https://twitter.com/Albert_HEO/status/1223420195106103297?s=20

    'Don't do that, it puts us in a bad light' isn't the greatest moral bar to clear but it's a start I guess.

    I saw the handful of sad sacks that constituted the unionists celebrations in Scotland, what a small bunch of neanderthals. They could not get out of double figures and looked a real bunch of knuckle draggers.
    Malc you really should go to bed earlier, or leave the Scotch alone, either that or you are eating far too many turnips. You always wake up grumpy, or is that just the way the Nits are?
    No whisky for me these days or turnips. I am also exceedingly happy at present , except for the puerile jingoistic bollox that has infected England. Hard to believe how embarrassing it was to watch the state of the idiots celebrating last night. Sooner Scotland is back in the EU the better.
    Allow them their moment Malky, lets not forget the Sainted Nicola's pretty nasty celebration when Jo Swinson lost her seat.
  • NigelbNigelb Posts: 71,228
    malcolmg said:

    malcolmg said:

    Brexit remonstrates with itself.

    https://twitter.com/Albert_HEO/status/1223420195106103297?s=20

    'Don't do that, it puts us in a bad light' isn't the greatest moral bar to clear but it's a start I guess.

    I saw the handful of sad sacks that constituted the unionists celebrations in Scotland, what a small bunch of neanderthals. They could not get out of double figures and looked a real bunch of knuckle draggers.
    Morning Malc. Health at your place improving, I hope.
    Morning OKC, yes thanks, they finally discharged my wife last night. Scary first day as she is still very ill but she is delighted to be home and on way to recovery. I am head cook , bottlewasher, cleaner and pharmacist.
    Good news indeed, malcolm,
    Hospitals can be dangerous places.
  • malcolmgmalcolmg Posts: 43,359

    malcolmg said:

    malcolmg said:

    Brexit remonstrates with itself.

    https://twitter.com/Albert_HEO/status/1223420195106103297?s=20

    'Don't do that, it puts us in a bad light' isn't the greatest moral bar to clear but it's a start I guess.

    I saw the handful of sad sacks that constituted the unionists celebrations in Scotland, what a small bunch of neanderthals. They could not get out of double figures and looked a real bunch of knuckle draggers.
    Malc you really should go to bed earlier, or leave the Scotch alone, either that or you are eating far too many turnips. You always wake up grumpy, or is that just the way the Nits are?
    No whisky for me these days or turnips. I am also exceedingly happy at present , except for the puerile jingoistic bollox that has infected England. Hard to believe how embarrassing it was to watch the state of the idiots celebrating last night. Sooner Scotland is back in the EU the better.
    Allow them their moment Malky, lets not forget the Sainted Nicola's pretty nasty celebration when Jo Swinson lost her seat.
    Yes I suppose so but I think they will live to regret it. Celebrating Swinson getting gubbed was well justified, she had been particularly nasty re SNP and Scotland in general , smug git got her just desserts.
  • AlanbrookeAlanbrooke Posts: 25,413
    malcolmg said:

    Thanks to everybody for kind wishes.

    malc

    haven't been on for a while, bur hope all goers well at home.
  • NigelbNigelb Posts: 71,228
    Of all the pitiful justificati9ns for not hearing witnesses in Trump’s Senate trial, this is surely the most risible:
    Murkowski framed her vote as a brave one to protect the Chief Justice from a Democratic effort to “drag the Supreme Court into the fray, while attacking the Chief Justice.” She continued: “I will not stand for nor support that effort.”...
  • MarqueeMarkMarqueeMark Posts: 52,609
    malcolmg said:

    malcolmg said:

    Brexit remonstrates with itself.

    https://twitter.com/Albert_HEO/status/1223420195106103297?s=20

    'Don't do that, it puts us in a bad light' isn't the greatest moral bar to clear but it's a start I guess.

    I saw the handful of sad sacks that constituted the unionists celebrations in Scotland, what a small bunch of neanderthals. They could not get out of double figures and looked a real bunch of knuckle draggers.
    Malc you really should go to bed earlier, or leave the Scotch alone, either that or you are eating far too many turnips. You always wake up grumpy, or is that just the way the Nits are?
    No whisky for me these days or turnips. I am also exceedingly happy at present , except for the puerile jingoistic bollox that has infected England. Hard to believe how embarrassing it was to watch the state of the idiots celebrating last night. Sooner Scotland is back in the EU the better.
    It would be a heartless Englishman that would celebrate Scotland swapping the cushioned yoke of London for the barbed yoke of Brussels....
  • malcolmg said:

    malcolmg said:

    Brexit remonstrates with itself.

    https://twitter.com/Albert_HEO/status/1223420195106103297?s=20

    'Don't do that, it puts us in a bad light' isn't the greatest moral bar to clear but it's a start I guess.

    I saw the handful of sad sacks that constituted the unionists celebrations in Scotland, what a small bunch of neanderthals. They could not get out of double figures and looked a real bunch of knuckle draggers.
    Malc you really should go to bed earlier, or leave the Scotch alone, either that or you are eating far too many turnips. You always wake up grumpy, or is that just the way the Nits are?
    No whisky for me these days or turnips. I am also exceedingly happy at present , except for the puerile jingoistic bollox that has infected England. Hard to believe how embarrassing it was to watch the state of the idiots celebrating last night. Sooner Scotland is back in the EU the better.
    It would be a heartless Englishman that would celebrate Scotland swapping the cushioned yoke of London for the barbed yoke of Brussels....
    '...so we're not even going to let you decide on it yourselves, we're THAT generous!'
  • JonathanJonathan Posts: 21,675
    So now the clock ticks down towards real Brexit, we have no clue what it will be, and we’re in the hands of Boris and his circus. What could go wrong?
  • MarqueeMarkMarqueeMark Posts: 52,609

    malcolmg said:

    malcolmg said:

    Brexit remonstrates with itself.

    https://twitter.com/Albert_HEO/status/1223420195106103297?s=20

    'Don't do that, it puts us in a bad light' isn't the greatest moral bar to clear but it's a start I guess.

    I saw the handful of sad sacks that constituted the unionists celebrations in Scotland, what a small bunch of neanderthals. They could not get out of double figures and looked a real bunch of knuckle draggers.
    Malc you really should go to bed earlier, or leave the Scotch alone, either that or you are eating far too many turnips. You always wake up grumpy, or is that just the way the Nits are?
    No whisky for me these days or turnips. I am also exceedingly happy at present , except for the puerile jingoistic bollox that has infected England. Hard to believe how embarrassing it was to watch the state of the idiots celebrating last night. Sooner Scotland is back in the EU the better.
    It would be a heartless Englishman that would celebrate Scotland swapping the cushioned yoke of London for the barbed yoke of Brussels....
    '...so we're not even going to let you decide on it yourselves, we're THAT generous!'
    Just stopping Scotland running with scissors......
  • MarqueeMarkMarqueeMark Posts: 52,609
    Jonathan said:

    So now the clock ticks down towards real Brexit, we have no clue what it will be, and we’re in the hands of Boris and his circus. What could go wrong?

    The EU behaving like pillocks?
  • Mr. Divvie, there was a referendum on Scotland leaving the UK *and* EU in 2014.

    After it became apparent they'd lost, the SNP's pledge to respect the result for a generation mysteriously disappeared.

    Mr. Jonathan, a great many things.

    But it's worth also remembering the 'good old days' when pro-EU politicians campaigned for a referendum and then reneged when in office. We didn't leap from the EU in a single moment of pique. It was a long road, and much of it was paved by the political class (which was mostly pro-EU).

    Politicians should remember that as they go forward.
  • IanB2IanB2 Posts: 49,868

    Very good summary from Nigel Harris, editor of RAIL magazine as to why HS2 costs rose and why Johnson will think he can control them. ..

    https://www.skyscrapercity.com/showpost.php?p=166117432&postcount=22902

    From that report: Perhaps this is why Sajid Javid is suddenly so in favour of HS2. He’s a former financier and worked in infrastructure deals before becoming Chancellor: he might well have cottoned on to this insane procurement model and ordered it to be dropped for the later parts of the project, north of Birmingham. Javid significantly added that no HS2 alternatives either give better value or are practical, which suggests he’s become intimate with the facts. Even the inconvenient ones.

    And this follows yesterday's reports that: Downing Street anger over 'ill-disciplined' Javid’s attempt to hijack HS2 decision
    Boris Johnson’s relationship with Sajid Javid under renewed strain after Chancellor's intervention in rail project row

    https://www.telegraph.co.uk/politics/2020/01/30/downing-street-anger-ill-disciplined-javids-attempt-hijack-hs2/

    So taken together we have HS2 going ahead and a reminder that for Number 10, as with Trump, Truman was wrong. It is amazing what can be accomplished provided Saj gives Boris the credit. And by Boris, we mean Dominic Cummings.
    And Johnson likes grandstanding. Look at his Estuary Airport idea, which I thought was actually great. I'm pretty sure he will get behind HS2 and really get behind it.
    The Estuary Airport 'idea' was actually a rehash of something from the 60's which was turned down then as impracticable.
    It's not impracticable. Certainly not with current engineering. Lots of places in the world have built dramatic new airports. Hong Kong is one of my favourites.
    It wasn’t the physical building of it that made it impracticable. It was the distance from its customer base, the lack of a workforce, tons and tons of birds, and the political inability to either decommission or find a new role for Heathrow that made it a nonsense scheme.
  • Mr. Divvie, there was a referendum on Scotland leaving the UK *and* EU in 2014.

    After it became apparent they'd lost, the SNP's pledge to respect the result for a generation mysteriously disappeared.

    Mr. Jonathan, a great many things.

    But it's worth also remembering the 'good old days' when pro-EU politicians campaigned for a referendum and then reneged when in office. We didn't leap from the EU in a single moment of pique. It was a long road, and much of it was paved by the political class (which was mostly pro-EU).

    Politicians should remember that as they go forward.

    A pledge was it?

    https://twitter.com/UK_Together/status/506899714923843584?s=20
  • JonathanJonathan Posts: 21,675
    Another Scot referendum is entirely justified, disastrous though Scotland leaving would be. Current government policy towards Scotland reminds me of how we treated Ireland many moons ago. Not good at all.
  • MattWMattW Posts: 23,250
    malcolmg said:

    malcolmg said:

    Brexit remonstrates with itself.

    https://twitter.com/Albert_HEO/status/1223420195106103297?s=20

    'Don't do that, it puts us in a bad light' isn't the greatest moral bar to clear but it's a start I guess.

    I saw the handful of sad sacks that constituted the unionists celebrations in Scotland, what a small bunch of neanderthals. They could not get out of double figures and looked a real bunch of knuckle draggers.
    Morning Malc. Health at your place improving, I hope.
    Morning OKC, yes thanks, they finally discharged my wife last night. Scary first day as she is still very ill but she is delighted to be home and on way to recovery. I am head cook , bottlewasher, cleaner and pharmacist.
    Good to hear. Hospital is always the place to not want to be if ill - too many bugs.
  • Mr. Divvie, if Scotland had voted to leave the UK it'd be outside both the EU and UK right now.

    Ironically, the rest of the UK (including Wales and England, which mostly voted Leave in 2016) would probably still be in.
  • viewcodeviewcode Posts: 22,125
    MattW said:

    ...Hospital is always the place to not want to be if ill - too many bugs...

    Indeed.
  • PhilPhil Posts: 2,316

    Jonathan said:

    So now the clock ticks down towards real Brexit, we have no clue what it will be, and we’re in the hands of Boris and his circus. What could go wrong?

    The EU behaving like pillocks?
    Looks like the "everything bad about Brexit is the fault of the perfidious EU" campaign is off to a roaring start :)
  • squareroot2squareroot2 Posts: 6,729

    Jonathan said:

    So now the clock ticks down towards real Brexit, we have no clue what it will be, and we’re in the hands of Boris and his circus. What could go wrong?

    The EU behaving like pillocks?
    The Eu have always behave in an manner that ignores the interests of their members. Only Germany and France matter. I noted the refusal to allow Farage's flashmob of loons to wave UK flags, this is typical of the EU denying the nation state in favour of being European. It will be its downfall. You cannot supress the nation states forever.
  • TheuniondivvieTheuniondivvie Posts: 42,002
    edited February 2020

    Mr. Divvie, if Scotland had voted to leave the UK it'd be outside both the EU and UK right now.

    But our application to return would be well in process if not completed, instead we're shackled to a twat in a Union Jack hat bevvied on Stella dragging us out the door.
  • Mr. Root, there's some truth to that, but it's also worth remembering well the incompetence and foolishness of many UK politicians.

    Triggering Article 50 before we had a firm idea of what we wanted, May having her very clever election during that period, and stupidly going along with the EU's sequencing (which was itself a pretty dodgy approach to take. Proved effective, but didn't exactly get the goodwill overflowing).
  • Mr. Divvie, you'd be in the early stages of trying to rejoin, assuming the departure from the UK had been completed.
  • SandpitSandpit Posts: 54,616
    IanB2 said:

    Very good summary from Nigel Harris, editor of RAIL magazine as to why HS2 costs rose and why Johnson will think he can control them. ..

    https://www.skyscrapercity.com/showpost.php?p=166117432&postcount=22902

    From that report: Perhaps this is why Sajid Javid is suddenly so in favour of HS2. He’s a former financier and worked in infrastructure deals before becoming Chancellor: he might well have cottoned on to this insane procurement model and ordered it to be dropped for the later parts of the project, north of Birmingham. Javid significantly added that no HS2 alternatives either give better value or are practical, which suggests he’s become intimate with the facts. Even the inconvenient ones.

    And this follows yesterday's reports that: Downing Street anger over 'ill-disciplined' Javid’s attempt to hijack HS2 decision
    Boris Johnson’s relationship with Sajid Javid under renewed strain after Chancellor's intervention in rail project row

    https://www.telegraph.co.uk/politics/2020/01/30/downing-street-anger-ill-disciplined-javids-attempt-hijack-hs2/

    So taken together we have HS2 going ahead and a reminder that for Number 10, as with Trump, Truman was wrong. It is amazing what can be accomplished provided Saj gives Boris the credit. And by Boris, we mean Dominic Cummings.
    And Johnson likes grandstanding. Look at his Estuary Airport idea, which I thought was actually great. I'm pretty sure he will get behind HS2 and really get behind it.
    The Estuary Airport 'idea' was actually a rehash of something from the 60's which was turned down then as impracticable.
    It's not impracticable. Certainly not with current engineering. Lots of places in the world have built dramatic new airports. Hong Kong is one of my favourites.
    It wasn’t the physical building of it that made it impracticable. It was the distance from its customer base, the lack of a workforce, tons and tons of birds, and the political inability to either decommission or find a new role for Heathrow that made it a nonsense scheme.
    Not to mention the winter fog in the estuary, the interference with flight paths at Amsterdam airport, the unexploded WWII bombs all over the site...
  • JonathanJonathan Posts: 21,675
    edited February 2020

    Mr. Root, there's some truth to that, but it's also worth remembering well the incompetence and foolishness of many UK politicians.

    Triggering Article 50 before we had a firm idea of what we wanted, May having her very clever election during that period, and stupidly going along with the EU's sequencing (which was itself a pretty dodgy approach to take. Proved effective, but didn't exactly get the goodwill overflowing).

    Leave leaders should have done more to excise the minority of vocal racists and the xenophobes from their movement. Stopped any healing or wider coming together. Not a movement to belong to. As Brexit went on the nastier it got. Brexits dirty little underbelly is still there.
  • Mr. Divvie, you'd be in the early stages of trying to rejoin, assuming the departure from the UK had been completed.

    I see EU re-entry negotiations has been added to your portfolio of expertise.
  • malcolmgmalcolmg Posts: 43,359
    edited February 2020

    Mr. Divvie, there was a referendum on Scotland leaving the UK *and* EU in 2014.

    After it became apparent they'd lost, the SNP's pledge to respect the result for a generation mysteriously disappeared.

    Mr. Jonathan, a great many things.

    But it's worth also remembering the 'good old days' when pro-EU politicians campaigned for a referendum and then reneged when in office. We didn't leap from the EU in a single moment of pique. It was a long road, and much of it was paved by the political class (which was mostly pro-EU).

    Politicians should remember that as they go forward.

    MD, can you provide any evidence of this "Pledge". Reality was that someone said it "was a once in a generation chance" as a throwaway rhetorical quip, similar to Boris "dying in a Ditch" comment.
    I do not see you demanding Boris go die in a ditch, get a grip and at least stop using made up bollox about one comment.
    PS You could also add "Lie down in front of the bulldozers and thousands of other rhetorical statements by politicians.
    I await your evidence of this great pledge.
  • Mr. Jonathan, I agree with that, though, again, we had a Commons that was very pro-EU which managed to vote to back the referendum result and then stifled any means of leaving even when they had a compliant speaker.

    It's also a shade ironic to complain of a lack of coming together whilst referring to the racists and xenophobes of the other side (albeit with the 'minority' caveat).

    On a kind of related note, I agree with John Denham that Starmer's apparent desire to carve England into pieces rather than have a proper Parliament might not be wise.
  • Dura_AceDura_Ace Posts: 13,677
    edited February 2020
    Nigelb said:

    @Dura_Ace 's next ride ?
    https://www.teslarati.com/tesla-semi-first-delivery-date-jk-moving/

    0-60 5sec.
    Which is not particularly impressive, until you look at it...

    Not my type of thing. I lack the energy and inclination to murder prostitutes and am thereby precluded from truck driving.

    I have just bought a Mk.6 Golf GTI off ebay in an act which has a whiff of à la recherche du temps perdu about it.
  • malcolmg said:

    malcolmg said:

    Brexit remonstrates with itself.

    https://twitter.com/Albert_HEO/status/1223420195106103297?s=20

    'Don't do that, it puts us in a bad light' isn't the greatest moral bar to clear but it's a start I guess.

    I saw the handful of sad sacks that constituted the unionists celebrations in Scotland, what a small bunch of neanderthals. They could not get out of double figures and looked a real bunch of knuckle draggers.
    Morning Malc. Health at your place improving, I hope.
    Morning OKC, yes thanks, they finally discharged my wife last night. Scary first day as she is still very ill but she is delighted to be home and on way to recovery. I am head cook , bottlewasher, cleaner and pharmacist.
    That’s great news. Be sure to make time to take care of yourself. You’ll be no use to anyone if you run yourself into the ground.
  • JonathanJonathan Posts: 21,675

    Mr. Jonathan, I agree with that, though, again, we had a Commons that was very pro-EU which managed to vote to back the referendum result and then stifled any means of leaving even when they had a compliant speaker.

    It's also a shade ironic to complain of a lack of coming together whilst referring to the racists and xenophobes of the other side (albeit with the 'minority' caveat).

    On a kind of related note, I agree with John Denham that Starmer's apparent desire to carve England into pieces rather than have a proper Parliament might not be wise.

    https://twitter.com/brianwhelanhack/status/1223388595723165697?s=21
  • malcolmgmalcolmg Posts: 43,359

    malcolmg said:

    malcolmg said:

    Brexit remonstrates with itself.

    https://twitter.com/Albert_HEO/status/1223420195106103297?s=20

    'Don't do that, it puts us in a bad light' isn't the greatest moral bar to clear but it's a start I guess.

    I saw the handful of sad sacks that constituted the unionists celebrations in Scotland, what a small bunch of neanderthals. They could not get out of double figures and looked a real bunch of knuckle draggers.
    Morning Malc. Health at your place improving, I hope.
    Morning OKC, yes thanks, they finally discharged my wife last night. Scary first day as she is still very ill but she is delighted to be home and on way to recovery. I am head cook , bottlewasher, cleaner and pharmacist.
    That’s great news. Be sure to make time to take care of yourself. You’ll be no use to anyone if you run yourself into the ground.
    Thanks Alistair , I will.
  • IanB2IanB2 Posts: 49,868
    Sandpit said:

    IanB2 said:

    Very good summary from Nigel Harris, editor of RAIL magazine as to why HS2 costs rose and why Johnson will think he can control them. ..

    https://www.skyscrapercity.com/showpost.php?p=166117432&postcount=22902

    From that report: Perhaps this is
    practical, which suggests he’s become intimate with the facts. Even the inconvenient ones.


    And this follows yesterday's reports that: Downing Street anger over 'ill-disciplined' Javid’s attempt to hijack HS2 decision
    Boris Johnson’s relationship with Sajid Javid under renewed strain after Chancellor's intervention in rail project row

    https://www.telegraph.co.uk/politics/2020/01/30/downing-street-anger-ill-disciplined-javids-attempt-hijack-hs2/

    So taken together we have HS2 going ahead and a reminder that for Number 10, as with Trump, Truman was wrong. It is amazing what can be accomplished provided Saj gives Boris the credit. And by Boris, we mean Dominic Cummings.
    And Johnson likes grandstanding. Look at his Estuary Airport idea, which I thought was actually great. I'm pretty sure he will get behind HS2 and really get behind it.
    The Estuary Airport 'idea' was actually a rehash of something from the 60's which was turned down then as impracticable.
    It's not impracticable. Certainly not with current engineering. Lots of places in the world have built dramatic new airports. Hong Kong is one of my favourites.
    It wasn’t the physical building of it that made it impracticable. It was the distance from its customer base, the lack of a workforce, tons and tons of birds, and the political inability to either decommission or find a new role for Heathrow that made it a nonsense scheme.
    Not to mention the winter fog in the estuary, the interference with flight paths at Amsterdam airport, the unexploded WWII bombs all over the site...
    Yes indeed.

    I was at the press conference when Boris launched the idea (and during which I though he seemed to be lining up a larger Stansted as his fallback), and when he was asked what would happen to Heathrow and its employing much of west London, and he genuinely didn’t appear to have an answer. He blustered for a bit and then said something about making it a “regional airport”; within a few days in the media he was talking about decommissioning and the opportunity to build tons of new homes.
  • I believe the Daily Express is comparing Brexit day to England winning the World Cup.

    Good metaphor, though probably not in the way the Express imagines it to be.
  • Mr. G, I castigated Boris Johnson severely, and still hold him in contempt, for his pathetic and cowardly fleeing of the country to avoid actually voting either way on the Heathrow third runway (apparently he had urgent business in a closet in Afghanistan which simply could not have waited).

    Once in a generation:
    https://twitter.com/cookie_trader/status/1222113304035954690

    Mr. Jonathan, they're certainly obnoxious. That doesn't make it wise to pretend that either 52% or 48% of the population is either a xenophobe or a traitor, or that such massive groups can be summarised neatly as entirely this or that (excepting the voting decision made in 2016).

    It can be comforting to paint those who vote differently as stupid or wicked. After all, one is moral, and intelligent. If the other side are morons and reprobates then the argument wasn't lost, it was simply that too many people aren't clever enough. The alternative is considering that either one was on the wrong side, or that the campaign was a failure (the latter is certainly true, both campaigns were bloody awful).

    The vast majority of people neither care as much as the media sometimes suggests, nor are stuck to their views absolutely.
  • kle4kle4 Posts: 96,153

    Very good summary from Nigel Harris, editor of RAIL magazine as to why HS2 costs rose and why Johnson will think he can control them. ..

    https://www.skyscrapercity.com/showpost.php?p=166117432&postcount=22902

    From that report: Perhaps this is why Sajid Javid is suddenly so in favour of HS2. He’s a former financier and worked in infrastructure deals before becoming Chancellor: he might well have cottoned on to this insane procurement model and ordered it to be dropped for the later parts of the project, north of Birmingham. Javid significantly added that no HS2 alternatives either give better value or are practical, which suggests he’s become intimate with the facts. Even the inconvenient ones.

    And this follows yesterday's reports that: Downing Street anger over 'ill-disciplined' Javid’s attempt to hijack HS2 decision
    Boris Johnson’s relationship with Sajid Javid under renewed strain after Chancellor's intervention in rail project row

    https://www.telegraph.co.uk/politics/2020/01/30/downing-street-anger-ill-disciplined-javids-attempt-hijack-hs2/

    So taken together we have HS2 going ahead and a reminder that for Number 10, as with Trump, Truman was wrong. It is amazing what can be accomplished provided Saj gives Boris the credit. And by Boris, we mean Dominic Cummings.
    And Johnson likes grandstanding. Look at his Estuary Airport idea, which I thought was actually great. I'm pretty sure he will get behind HS2 and really get behind it.
    Call it the Boris Bullet Trainline instead and he will go for it.
  • MarqueeMarkMarqueeMark Posts: 52,609
    kle4 said:

    Very good summary from Nigel Harris, editor of RAIL magazine as to why HS2 costs rose and why Johnson will think he can control them. ..

    https://www.skyscrapercity.com/showpost.php?p=166117432&postcount=22902

    From that report: Perhaps this is why Sajid Javid is suddenly so in favour of HS2. He’s a former financier and worked in infrastructure deals before becoming Chancellor: he might well have cottoned on to this insane procurement model and ordered it to be dropped for the later parts of the project, north of Birmingham. Javid significantly added that no HS2 alternatives either give better value or are practical, which suggests he’s become intimate with the facts. Even the inconvenient ones.

    And this follows yesterday's reports that: Downing Street anger over 'ill-disciplined' Javid’s attempt to hijack HS2 decision
    Boris Johnson’s relationship with Sajid Javid under renewed strain after Chancellor's intervention in rail project row

    https://www.telegraph.co.uk/politics/2020/01/30/downing-street-anger-ill-disciplined-javids-attempt-hijack-hs2/

    So taken together we have HS2 going ahead and a reminder that for Number 10, as with Trump, Truman was wrong. It is amazing what can be accomplished provided Saj gives Boris the credit. And by Boris, we mean Dominic Cummings.
    And Johnson likes grandstanding. Look at his Estuary Airport idea, which I thought was actually great. I'm pretty sure he will get behind HS2 and really get behind it.
    Call it the Boris Bullet Trainline instead and he will go for it.
    Brand the tidal lagoons "Boris Bays". Surefire winner.....
  • kle4kle4 Posts: 96,153
    Jonathan said:

    Another Scot referendum is entirely justified, disastrous though Scotland leaving would be. Current government policy towards Scotland reminds me of how we treated Ireland many moons ago. Not good at all.

    I wouldn't go quite that far, but I'd agree its justified and I don't know that just waiting it out is viable as a strategy to defeat the nationalists in the long term.
  • MarqueeMarkMarqueeMark Posts: 52,609

    I believe the Daily Express is comparing Brexit day to England winning the World Cup.

    Good metaphor, though probably not in the way the Express imagines it to be.

    SNP, look and learn: THAT is a once in a generation event.
  • kle4kle4 Posts: 96,153

    malcolmg said:

    malcolmg said:

    Brexit remonstrates with itself.

    https://twitter.com/Albert_HEO/status/1223420195106103297?s=20

    'Don't do that, it puts us in a bad light' isn't the greatest moral bar to clear but it's a start I guess.

    I saw the handful of sad sacks that constituted the unionists celebrations in Scotland, what a small bunch of neanderthals. They could not get out of double figures and looked a real bunch of knuckle draggers.
    Malc you really should go to bed earlier, or leave the Scotch alone, either that or you are eating far too many turnips. You always wake up grumpy, or is that just the way the Nits are?
    No whisky for me these days or turnips. I am also exceedingly happy at present , except for the puerile jingoistic bollox that has infected England. Hard to believe how embarrassing it was to watch the state of the idiots celebrating last night. Sooner Scotland is back in the EU the better.
    Allow them their moment Malky, lets not forget the Sainted Nicola's pretty nasty celebration when Jo Swinson lost her seat.
    That outrage was so silly.
  • IanB2IanB2 Posts: 49,868

    Jonathan said:

    So now the clock ticks down towards real Brexit, we have no clue what it will be, and we’re in the hands of Boris and his circus. What could go wrong?

    The EU behaving like pillocks?
    The Eu have always behave in an manner that ignores the interests of their members. Only Germany and France matter. I noted the refusal to allow Farage's flashmob of loons to wave UK flags, this is typical of the EU denying the nation state in favour of being European. It will be its downfall. You cannot supress the nation states forever.
    There is not much evidence for that latter assertion. Nation states as we understand them only really emerged in the later 19th and early 20th century. It is observable that people who see themselves as part of a nationality quest for degrees of self determination, but that can be as much threat to a nation state (Spain, Canada, Scotland). Nevertheless for most of human history people didn’t live within such entities and today in much of the world the artificial nation states imposed upon them are the cause of significant discontent.
  • kle4 said:

    Very good summary from Nigel Harris, editor of RAIL magazine as to why HS2 costs rose and why Johnson will think he can control them. ..

    https://www.skyscrapercity.com/showpost.php?p=166117432&postcount=22902

    From that report: Perhaps this is why Sajid Javid is suddenly so in favour of HS2. He’s a former financier and worked in infrastructure deals before becoming Chancellor: he might well have cottoned on to this insane procurement model and ordered it to be dropped for the later parts of the project, north of Birmingham. Javid significantly added that no HS2 alternatives either give better value or are practical, which suggests he’s become intimate with the facts. Even the inconvenient ones.

    And this follows yesterday's reports that: Downing Street anger over 'ill-disciplined' Javid’s attempt to hijack HS2 decision
    Boris Johnson’s relationship with Sajid Javid under renewed strain after Chancellor's intervention in rail project row

    https://www.telegraph.co.uk/politics/2020/01/30/downing-street-anger-ill-disciplined-javids-attempt-hijack-hs2/

    So taken together we have HS2 going ahead and a reminder that for Number 10, as with Trump, Truman was wrong. It is amazing what can be accomplished provided Saj gives Boris the credit. And by Boris, we mean Dominic Cummings.
    And Johnson likes grandstanding. Look at his Estuary Airport idea, which I thought was actually great. I'm pretty sure he will get behind HS2 and really get behind it.
    Call it the Boris Bullet Trainline instead and he will go for it.
    Brand the tidal lagoons "Boris Bays". Surefire winner.....
    Be careful how far we take the alliteration. I don't want to get into the summer and hear someone refer to Boris Bikinis.
  • Good morning folks

    As we wake up to a first day outside the EU I have no great feeling of liberation but I am pleased the dial has moved on and we must seek to reduce the hate, and make real efforts to come together, as we just have to make a success of it

    I fully understand that a great many remainers are really hurting and I get no pleasure from that and have sympathy with their distress, but do not excuse unnecessary abusive language to those leavers who succeeded in taking us out of the EU

    Likewise, I utterly condemn the politics of Farage, and also urge leavers to stop provoking those who are struggling with this event and seek a fair compromise both with remainers and the EU to see the UK and the EU move on to a new and rather different relationship
  • JonathanJonathan Posts: 21,675
    edited February 2020

    Mr. G, I castigated Boris Johnson severely, and still hold him in contempt, for his pathetic and cowardly fleeing of the country to avoid actually voting either way on the Heathrow third runway (apparently he had urgent business in a closet in Afghanistan which simply could not have waited).

    Once in a generation:
    https://twitter.com/cookie_trader/status/1222113304035954690

    Mr. Jonathan, they're certainly obnoxious. That doesn't make it wise to pretend that either 52% or 48% of the population is either a xenophobe or a traitor, or that such massive groups can be summarised neatly as entirely this or that (excepting the voting decision made in 2016).

    It can be comforting to paint those who vote differently as stupid or wicked. After all, one is moral, and intelligent. If the other side are morons and reprobates then the argument wasn't lost, it was simply that too many people aren't clever enough. The alternative is considering that either one was on the wrong side, or that the campaign was a failure (the latter is certainly true, both campaigns were bloody awful).

    The vast majority of people neither care as much as the media sometimes suggests, nor are stuck to their views absolutely.

    Sure, there are plenty of good reasons to to leave the EU. My point is there is a non trivial amount of bile there too, which the political leaders of the movement have a responsibility to challenge and so far haven’t, largely because they have wanted the votes.
  • old_labourold_labour Posts: 3,238
    malcolmg said:

    malcolmg said:

    malcolmg said:

    Brexit remonstrates with itself.

    https://twitter.com/Albert_HEO/status/1223420195106103297?s=20

    'Don't do that, it puts us in a bad light' isn't the greatest moral bar to clear but it's a start I guess.

    I saw the handful of sad sacks that constituted the unionists celebrations in Scotland, what a small bunch of neanderthals. They could not get out of double figures and looked a real bunch of knuckle draggers.
    Malc you really should go to bed earlier, or leave the Scotch alone, either that or you are eating far too many turnips. You always wake up grumpy, or is that just the way the Nits are?
    No whisky for me these days or turnips. I am also exceedingly happy at present , except for the puerile jingoistic bollox that has infected England. Hard to believe how embarrassing it was to watch the state of the idiots celebrating last night. Sooner Scotland is back in the EU the better.
    Allow them their moment Malky, lets not forget the Sainted Nicola's pretty nasty celebration when Jo Swinson lost her seat.
    Yes I suppose so but I think they will live to regret it. Celebrating Swinson getting gubbed was well justified, she had been particularly nasty re SNP and Scotland in general , smug git got her just desserts.
    From what I have seen, the new MP, Amy Callaghan is a vast improvement on deluded Jo Swinson.
  • SandpitSandpit Posts: 54,616
    edited February 2020
    IanB2 said:

    Sandpit said:

    IanB2 said:

    The Estuary Airport 'idea' was actually a rehash of something from the 60's which was turned down then as impracticable.

    It's not impracticable. Certainly not with current engineering. Lots of places in the world have built dramatic new airports. Hong Kong is one of my favourites.
    It wasn’t the physical building of it that made it impracticable. It was the distance from its customer base, the lack of a workforce, tons and tons of birds, and the political inability to either decommission or find a new role for Heathrow that made it a nonsense scheme.
    Not to mention the winter fog in the estuary, the interference with flight paths at Amsterdam airport, the unexploded WWII bombs all over the site...
    Yes indeed.

    I was at the press conference when Boris launched the idea (and during which I though he seemed to be lining up a larger Stansted as his fallback), and when he was asked what would happen to Heathrow and its employing much of west London, and he genuinely didn’t appear to have an answer. He blustered for a bit and then said something about making it a “regional airport”; within a few days in the media he was talking about decommissioning and the opportunity to build tons of new homes.
    Oh, and all of the international companies with regional headquarters on the M4 and M3 corridors, for whom proximity to the airport is a key consideration. And the M25 being a car park at the best of times already, with a bottleneck around the Dartford crossings, and that the maths didn’t work without closing LHR completely and selling off the land afterwards.

    Yes, it was a nice idea in someone’s mind, but totally implausible in practice. Boris stuck with the idea long after it was pointed out to him that it was never plausibly going to happen.

    LHR is where it is, and the only plausible way forward from here is expanding it. If we’d spend the last decade building the third runway instead of arguing about it, millions of tonnes of carbon emissions would have saved, generated as they are by having hundreds of planes flying around in circles every day waiting to get their landing slot.
  • old_labourold_labour Posts: 3,238
    malcolmg said:

    malcolmg said:

    Brexit remonstrates with itself.

    https://twitter.com/Albert_HEO/status/1223420195106103297?s=20

    'Don't do that, it puts us in a bad light' isn't the greatest moral bar to clear but it's a start I guess.

    I saw the handful of sad sacks that constituted the unionists celebrations in Scotland, what a small bunch of neanderthals. They could not get out of double figures and looked a real bunch of knuckle draggers.
    Morning Malc. Health at your place improving, I hope.
    Morning OKC, yes thanks, they finally discharged my wife last night. Scary first day as she is still very ill but she is delighted to be home and on way to recovery. I am head cook , bottlewasher, cleaner and pharmacist.
    Best wishes to both you and your wife.
  • malcolmg said:

    malcolmg said:

    malcolmg said:

    Brexit remonstrates with itself.

    https://twitter.com/Albert_HEO/status/1223420195106103297?s=20

    'Don't do that, it puts us in a bad light' isn't the greatest moral bar to clear but it's a start I guess.

    I saw the handful of sad sacks that constituted the unionists celebrations in Scotland, what a small bunch of neanderthals. They could not get out of double figures and looked a real bunch of knuckle draggers.
    Malc you really should go to bed earlier, or leave the Scotch alone, either that or you are eating far too many turnips. You always wake up grumpy, or is that just the way the Nits are?
    No whisky for me these days or turnips. I am also exceedingly happy at present , except for the puerile jingoistic bollox that has infected England. Hard to believe how embarrassing it was to watch the state of the idiots celebrating last night. Sooner Scotland is back in the EU the better.
    Allow them their moment Malky, lets not forget the Sainted Nicola's pretty nasty celebration when Jo Swinson lost her seat.
    Yes I suppose so but I think they will live to regret it. Celebrating Swinson getting gubbed was well justified, she had been particularly nasty re SNP and Scotland in general , smug git got her just desserts.
    From what I have seen, the new MP, Amy Callaghan is a vast improvement on deluded Jo Swinson.
    Ah but is Callaghan going to be the next Prime Minister?
  • old_labourold_labour Posts: 3,238
    Jonathan said:

    So now the clock ticks down towards real Brexit, we have no clue what it will be, and we’re in the hands of Boris and his circus. What could go wrong?

    It will be interesting to see who Johnson throws under the wheels of the bus this year.
  • Mr. Jonathan, that's fair.

    Occasionally see stuff from people wanting to 'bring the EU down' or somesuch nonsense. One thing I disliked about the EU was that it gave us influence others, and others influence over us. If others choose to be part of the EU, or to leave it, that's up to them. I have no desire to try and break up the EU. We should concern ourselves with the British national interest.
  • GallowgateGallowgate Posts: 19,468
    Off Topic

    I recently submitted an application for a training contract at a law firm although the deadline has not passed yet.

    Yesterday I noticed that I’ve made a error on the dates of one of the more minor positions on my CV from 5 years ago.

    Do I contact the firm and ask to correct the error, drawing attention to it, or do I leave it?
  • kle4kle4 Posts: 96,153

    kle4 said:

    Very good summary from Nigel Harris, editor of RAIL magazine as to why HS2 costs rose and why Johnson will think he can control them. ..

    https://www.skyscrapercity.com/showpost.php?p=166117432&postcount=22902

    From that report: Perhaps this is why Sajid Javid is suddenly so in favour of HS2. He’s a former financier and worked in infrastructure deals before becoming Chancellor: he might well have cottoned on to this insane procurement model and ordered it to be dropped for the later parts of the project, north of Birmingham. Javid significantly added that no HS2 alternatives either give better value or are practical, which suggests he’s become intimate with the facts. Even the inconvenient ones.

    And this follows yesterday's reports that: Downing Street anger over 'ill-disciplined' Javid’s attempt to hijack HS2 decision
    Boris Johnson’s relationship with Sajid Javid under renewed strain after Chancellor's intervention in rail project row

    https://www.telegraph.co.uk/politics/2020/01/30/downing-street-anger-ill-disciplined-javids-attempt-hijack-hs2/

    So taken together we have HS2 going ahead and a reminder that for Number 10, as with Trump, Truman was wrong. It is amazing what can be accomplished provided Saj gives Boris the credit. And by Boris, we mean Dominic Cummings.
    And Johnson likes grandstanding. Look at his Estuary Airport idea, which I thought was actually great. I'm pretty sure he will get behind HS2 and really get behind it.
    Call it the Boris Bullet Trainline instead and he will go for it.
    Brand the tidal lagoons "Boris Bays". Surefire winner.....
    Be careful how far we take the alliteration. I don't want to get into the summer and hear someone refer to Boris Bikinis.
    The difference is I suspect Boris is already focused on and supportive, boisterously so, of bikinis, so we dont need to add his name to them to get his attention.
  • Mr. Jonathan, that's fair.

    Occasionally see stuff from people wanting to 'bring the EU down' or somesuch nonsense. One thing I disliked about the EU was that it gave us influence others, and others influence over us. If others choose to be part of the EU, or to leave it, that's up to them. I have no desire to try and break up the EU. We should concern ourselves with the British national interest.

    100% agreed.
  • Dura_AceDura_Ace Posts: 13,677
    Sandpit said:



    LHR is where it is, and the only plausible way forward from here is expanding it. If we’d spend the last decade building the third runway instead of arguing about it, millions of tonnes of carbon emissions would have saved, generated as they are by having hundreds of planes flying around in circles every day waiting to get their landing slot.

    There hasn't been a new runway built in the UK since WW2. That's not going to change in my lifetime which, admittedly, probably isn't going to be that long.
  • old_labourold_labour Posts: 3,238

    I believe the Daily Express is comparing Brexit day to England winning the World Cup.

    Good metaphor, though probably not in the way the Express imagines it to be.

    SNP, look and learn: THAT is a once in a generation event.
    Approaching two generations by now.
  • old_labourold_labour Posts: 3,238

    malcolmg said:

    malcolmg said:

    malcolmg said:

    Brexit remonstrates with itself.

    https://twitter.com/Albert_HEO/status/1223420195106103297?s=20

    'Don't do that, it puts us in a bad light' isn't the greatest moral bar to clear but it's a start I guess.

    I saw the handful of sad sacks that constituted the unionists celebrations in Scotland, what a small bunch of neanderthals. They could not get out of double figures and looked a real bunch of knuckle draggers.
    Malc you really should go to bed earlier, or leave the Scotch alone, either that or you are eating far too many turnips. You always wake up grumpy, or is that just the way the Nits are?
    No whisky for me these days or turnips. I am also exceedingly happy at present , except for the puerile jingoistic bollox that has infected England. Hard to believe how embarrassing it was to watch the state of the idiots celebrating last night. Sooner Scotland is back in the EU the better.
    Allow them their moment Malky, lets not forget the Sainted Nicola's pretty nasty celebration when Jo Swinson lost her seat.
    Yes I suppose so but I think they will live to regret it. Celebrating Swinson getting gubbed was well justified, she had been particularly nasty re SNP and Scotland in general , smug git got her just desserts.
    From what I have seen, the new MP, Amy Callaghan is a vast improvement on deluded Jo Swinson.
    Ah but is Callaghan going to be the next Prime Minister?
    Not of England.
  • On topic, yes quite.
  • mattmatt Posts: 3,789
    Sandpit said:

    IanB2 said:

    Sandpit said:

    IanB2 said:

    The Estuary Airport 'idea' was actually a rehash of something from the 60's which was turned down then as impracticable.

    It's not impracticable. Certainly not with current engineering. Lots of places in the world have built dramatic new airports. Hong Kong is one of my favourites.
    It wasn’t the physical building of it that made it impracticable. It was the distance from its customer base, the lack of a workforce, tons and tons of birds, and the political inability to either decommission or find a new role for Heathrow that made it a nonsense scheme.
    Not to mention the winter fog in the estuary, the interference with flight paths at Amsterdam airport, the unexploded WWII bombs all over the site...
    Yes indeed.

    I was at the press conference when Boris launched the idea (and during which I though he seemed to be lining up a larger Stansted as his fallback), and when he was asked what would happen to Heathrow and its employing much of west London, and he genuinely didn’t appear to have an answer. He blustered for a bit and then said something about making it a “regional airport”; within a few days in the media he was talking about decommissioning and the opportunity to build tons of new homes.
    Oh, and all of the international companies with regional headquarters on the M4 and M3 corridors, for whom proximity to the airport is a key consideration. And the M25 being a car park at the best of times already, with a bottleneck around the Dartford crossings, and that the maths didn’t work without closing LHR completely and selling off the land afterwards.

    Yes, it was a nice idea in someone’s mind, but totally implausible in practice. Boris stuck with the idea long after it was pointed out to him that it was never plausibly going to happen.

    LHR is where it is, and the only plausible way forward from here is expanding it. If we’d spend the last decade building the third runway instead of arguing about it, millions of tonnes of carbon emissions would have saved, generated as they are by having hundreds of planes flying around in circles every day waiting to get their landing slot.
    Thanks for the view from Dubai.
  • Off Topic

    I recently submitted an application for a training contract at a law firm although the deadline has not passed yet.

    Yesterday I noticed that I’ve made a error on the dates of one of the more minor positions on my CV from 5 years ago.

    Do I contact the firm and ask to correct the error, drawing attention to it, or do I leave it?

    How big an error?
  • Dura_AceDura_Ace Posts: 13,677
    matt said:



    Thanks for the view from Dubai.

    Salt for the salt god.
  • mattmatt Posts: 3,789

    Off Topic

    I recently submitted an application for a training contract at a law firm although the deadline has not passed yet.

    Yesterday I noticed that I’ve made a error on the dates of one of the more minor positions on my CV from 5 years ago.

    Do I contact the firm and ask to correct the error, drawing attention to it, or do I leave it?

    Leave it. If you’re going to be round 1 binned for non-attention to detail, a subsequent follow-up won’t help.

    Unless you’re very good or very lucky you’ll be making a lot of applications so chalk it as a detail learning curve.
  • SandpitSandpit Posts: 54,616
    matt said:

    Sandpit said:

    IanB2 said:

    Sandpit said:

    IanB2 said:

    The Estuary Airport 'idea' was actually a rehash of something from the 60's which was turned down then as impracticable.

    It's not impracticable. Certainly not with current engineering. Lots of places in the world have built dramatic new airports. Hong Kong is one of my favourites.
    It wasn’t the physical building of it that made it impracticable. It was the distance from its customer base, the lack of a workforce, tons and tons of birds, and the political inability to either decommission or find a new role for Heathrow that made it a nonsense scheme.
    Not to mention the winter fog in the estuary, the interference with flight paths at Amsterdam airport, the unexploded WWII bombs all over the site...
    Yes indeed.

    I was at the press conference when Boris launched the idea (and during which I though he seemed to be lining up a larger Stansted as his fallback), and when he was asked what would happen to Heathrow and its employing much of west London, and he genuinely didn’t appear to have an answer. He blustered for a bit and then said something about making it a “regional airport”; within a few days in the media he was talking about decommissioning and the opportunity to build tons of new homes.
    Oh, and all of the international companies with regional headquarters on the M4 and M3 corridors, for whom proximity to the airport is a key consideration. And the M25 being a car park at the best of times already, with a bottleneck around the Dartford crossings, and that the maths didn’t work without closing LHR completely and selling off the land afterwards.

    Yes, it was a nice idea in someone’s mind, but totally implausible in practice. Boris stuck with the idea long after it was pointed out to him that it was never plausibly going to happen.

    LHR is where it is, and the only plausible way forward from here is expanding it. If we’d spend the last decade building the third runway instead of arguing about it, millions of tonnes of carbon emissions would have saved, generated as they are by having hundreds of planes flying around in circles every day waiting to get their landing slot.
    Thanks for the view from Dubai.
    Where two new runways would have been built, in the time the U.K. has been arguing about this one.
  • MarqueeMarkMarqueeMark Posts: 52,609
    New post-Brexit Rules of Engagement. Everybody posting here agrees:

    1. Nobody won, nobody lost.

    2. We just implemented a majority view achieved in a democratic referendum.

    3. Terms of abuse - Remainer, Remainiac, Brexiteer, gammon, thickoes - have been buried in an old slate mine in north Wales.

    4. Antagonism for antagonisms sake, whilst fun, needs to be dialled back from 11 to 1.

    5. The SNP is still fair game however.

  • kle4 said:

    Jonathan said:

    Another Scot referendum is entirely justified, disastrous though Scotland leaving would be. Current government policy towards Scotland reminds me of how we treated Ireland many moons ago. Not good at all.

    I wouldn't go quite that far, but I'd agree its justified and I don't know that just waiting it out is viable as a strategy to defeat the nationalists in the long term.
    I have little doubt Indy ref2 will become a reality in the Autumn of 2021 if the SNP gain a majority in Holyrood 2021 elections. Indeed, no matter what HYUFD may say, Boris will have little choice but to concede the referendum.

    However, the SNP is at peak Indyref2 now because of brexit and has just seen a poll go 51/49 in favour, but it would be very surprising that if in all of this turmoil opinion in Scotland had not moved towards the independence movement

    By Autumn 2021 the relationship with the EU should have been resolved to a large extent and that will then play into a referendum including whether a Berwick to Carlisle border becomes a reality causing huge disruption to Scotland's trade with the UK and of course the issue with Scotland rejoining the EU will not necessarily be as seemless as they hope, especially if fishing is handed back to Brussels

    I have grown up with Scots Nationalism and it must be remembered that even if we were still in the EU, the SNP would be agitating for it as it is their DNA. I am convinced that they would lose any referendum but I do not deny they have a legitimate case for it, especially if they win Holyrood 2021
  • JonathanJonathan Posts: 21,675

    Mr. Jonathan, that's fair.

    Occasionally see stuff from people wanting to 'bring the EU down' or somesuch nonsense. One thing I disliked about the EU was that it gave us influence others, and others influence over us. If others choose to be part of the EU, or to leave it, that's up to them. I have no desire to try and break up the EU. We should concern ourselves with the British national interest.

    One of the reasons I have a major problem with Boris is that rather than taking the bigots on, he fanned the flames for electoral purposes. He deliberately inflamed things. He has no right to ask people to come together now. Healing can only begin when he goes.
  • GallowgateGallowgate Posts: 19,468

    Off Topic

    I recently submitted an application for a training contract at a law firm although the deadline has not passed yet.

    Yesterday I noticed that I’ve made a error on the dates of one of the more minor positions on my CV from 5 years ago.

    Do I contact the firm and ask to correct the error, drawing attention to it, or do I leave it?

    How big an error?
    A month out on the dates either side... So not a huge one. 🤷‍♂️
  • mattmatt Posts: 3,789
    Sandpit said:

    matt said:

    Sandpit said:

    IanB2 said:

    Sandpit said:

    IanB2 said:

    The Estuary Airport 'idea' was actually a rehash of something from the 60's which was turned down then as impracticable.

    It's not impracticable. Certainly not with current engineering. Lots of places in the world have built dramatic new airports. Hong Kong is one of my favourites.
    It wasn’t the physical building of it that made it impracticable. It was the distance from its customer base, the lack of a workforce, tons and tons of birds, and the political inability to either decommission or find a new role for Heathrow that made it a nonsense scheme.
    Not to mention the winter fog in the estuary, the interference with flight paths at Amsterdam airport, the unexploded WWII bombs all over the site...
    Yes indeed.

    I was at the press conference when Boris launched the idea (and during which I though he seemed to be lining up a larger Stansted as his fallback), and when he was asked what would happen to Heathrow and its employing much of west London, and he genuinely didn’t appear to have an answer. He blustered for a bit and then said something about making it a “regional airport”; within a few days in the media he was talking about decommissioning and the opportunity to build tons of new homes.
    Oh, and all of the international companies with regional headquarters on the M4 and M3 corridors, for whom proximity to the airport is a key consideration. And the M25 being a car park at the best of times already, with a bottleneck around the Dartford crossings, and that the maths didn’t work without closing LHR completely and selling off the land afterwards.

    Yes, it was a nice idea in someone’s mind, but totally implausible in practice. Boris stuck with the idea long after it was pointed out to him that it was never plausibly going to happen.

    LHR is where it is, and the only plausible way forward from here is expanding it. If we’d spend the last decade building the third runway instead of arguing about it, millions of tonnes of carbon emissions would have saved, generated as they are by having hundreds of planes flying around in circles every day waiting to get their landing slot.
    Thanks for the view from Dubai.
    Where two new runways would have been built, in the time the U.K. has been arguing about this one.
    It’s easy when it’s a despotic regime with a thin attention to the rule of law and the labouring is done by indentured servants from India who are seen as subhuman.

    Enjoy your weight gain!
  • felixfelix Posts: 15,164
    malcolmg said:

    malcolmg said:

    malcolmg said:

    Brexit remonstrates with itself.

    https://twitter.com/Albert_HEO/status/1223420195106103297?s=20

    'Don't do that, it puts us in a bad light' isn't the greatest moral bar to clear but it's a start I guess.

    I saw the handful of sad sacks that constituted the unionists celebrations in Scotland, what a small bunch of neanderthals. They could not get out of double figures and looked a real bunch of knuckle draggers.
    Malc you really should go to bed earlier, or leave the Scotch alone, either that or you are eating far too many turnips. You always wake up grumpy, or is that just the way the Nits are?
    No whisky for me these days or turnips. I am also exceedingly happy at present , except for the puerile jingoistic bollox that has infected England. Hard to believe how embarrassing it was to watch the state of the idiots celebrating last night. Sooner Scotland is back in the EU the better.
    Allow them their moment Malky, lets not forget the Sainted Nicola's pretty nasty celebration when Jo Swinson lost her seat.
    Yes I suppose so but I think they will live to regret it. Celebrating Swinson getting gubbed was well justified, she had been particularly nasty re SNP and Scotland in general , smug git got her just desserts.
    Unusually I agree - politics is partisan and swinson was a great scalp. I'm a Tory and was almost as pleased.
  • New post-Brexit Rules of Engagement. Everybody posting here agrees:

    1. Nobody won, nobody lost.

    2. We just implemented a majority view achieved in a democratic referendum.

    3. Terms of abuse - Remainer, Remainiac, Brexiteer, gammon, thickoes - have been buried in an old slate mine in north Wales.

    4. Antagonism for antagonisms sake, whilst fun, needs to be dialled back from 11 to 1.

    5. The SNP is still fair game however.

    +100
  • malcolmgmalcolmg Posts: 43,359

    I believe the Daily Express is comparing Brexit day to England winning the World Cup.

    Good metaphor, though probably not in the way the Express imagines it to be.

    SNP, look and learn: THAT is a once in a generation event.
    That is a once in the history of the world Event.
  • felix said:

    malcolmg said:

    malcolmg said:

    malcolmg said:

    Brexit remonstrates with itself.

    https://twitter.com/Albert_HEO/status/1223420195106103297?s=20

    'Don't do that, it puts us in a bad light' isn't the greatest moral bar to clear but it's a start I guess.

    I saw the handful of sad sacks that constituted the unionists celebrations in Scotland, what a small bunch of neanderthals. They could not get out of double figures and looked a real bunch of knuckle draggers.
    Malc you really should go to bed earlier, or leave the Scotch alone, either that or you are eating far too many turnips. You always wake up grumpy, or is that just the way the Nits are?
    No whisky for me these days or turnips. I am also exceedingly happy at present , except for the puerile jingoistic bollox that has infected England. Hard to believe how embarrassing it was to watch the state of the idiots celebrating last night. Sooner Scotland is back in the EU the better.
    Allow them their moment Malky, lets not forget the Sainted Nicola's pretty nasty celebration when Jo Swinson lost her seat.
    Yes I suppose so but I think they will live to regret it. Celebrating Swinson getting gubbed was well justified, she had been particularly nasty re SNP and Scotland in general , smug git got her just desserts.
    Unusually I agree - politics is partisan and swinson was a great scalp. I'm a Tory and was almost as pleased.
    It did the LibDems a favour.
  • Dura_AceDura_Ace Posts: 13,677

    New post-Brexit Rules of Engagement. Everybody posting here agrees:

    1. Nobody won, nobody lost.

    2. We just implemented a majority view achieved in a democratic referendum.

    3. Terms of abuse - Remainer, Remainiac, Brexiteer, gammon, thickoes - have been buried in an old slate mine in north Wales.

    4. Antagonism for antagonisms sake, whilst fun, needs to be dialled back from 11 to 1.

    5. The SNP is still fair game however.

    Encule toi salaud.
  • GallowgateGallowgate Posts: 19,468

    New post-Brexit Rules of Engagement. Everybody posting here agrees:

    1. Nobody won, nobody lost.

    2. We just implemented a majority view achieved in a democratic referendum.

    3. Terms of abuse - Remainer, Remainiac, Brexiteer, gammon, thickoes - have been buried in an old slate mine in north Wales.

    4. Antagonism for antagonisms sake, whilst fun, needs to be dialled back from 11 to 1.

    5. The SNP is still fair game however.

    Coming from one of the biggest antagonisers here...
  • squareroot2squareroot2 Posts: 6,729
    edited February 2020
    felix said:

    malcolmg said:

    malcolmg said:

    malcolmg said:

    Brexit remonstrates with itself.

    https://twitter.com/Albert_HEO/status/1223420195106103297?s=20

    'Don't do that, it puts us in a bad light' isn't the greatest moral bar to clear but it's a start I guess.

    I saw the handful of sad sacks that constituted the unionists celebrations in Scotland, what a small bunch of neanderthals. They could not get out of double figures and looked a real bunch of knuckle draggers.
    Malc you really should go to bed earlier, or leave the Scotch alone, either that or you are eating far too many turnips. You always wake up grumpy, or is that just the way the Nits are?
    No whisky for me these days or turnips. I am also exceedingly happy at present , except for the puerile jingoistic bollox that has infected England. Hard to believe how embarrassing it was to watch the state of the idiots celebrating last night. Sooner Scotland is back in the EU the better.
    Allow them their moment Malky, lets not forget the Sainted Nicola's pretty nasty celebration when Jo Swinson lost her seat.
    Yes I suppose so but I think they will live to regret it. Celebrating Swinson getting gubbed was well justified, she had been particularly nasty re SNP and Scotland in general , smug git got her just desserts.
    Unusually I agree - politics is partisan and swinson was a great scalp. I'm a Tory and was almost as pleased.
    I disagree. Its all very well to celebrate an opponents downfall as long as you accept it with equally good grace when it happens to you. The "sainted Nicola" has proved to be completely toothless with regards to EU membership and I hope she suffers for it politically speaking. Sturgeon is a one trick pony, period.
  • Jonathan said:

    Another Scot referendum is entirely justified, disastrous though Scotland leaving would be. Current government policy towards Scotland reminds me of how we treated Ireland many moons ago. Not good at all.

    That's an exaggeration, but I'm very worried about Scotland.

    Those numbers for Boris Johnson north of the border are shocking. His ratings are so low he must be widely disliked even amongst Conservatives and Unionists.
  • NickPalmerNickPalmer Posts: 21,533
    I'm a Sanders sympathiser but I agree with David's analysis. Biden looks too long IMO, can't see Klobouchar even coming close, but maybe Buttigieg is value too.
  • SandpitSandpit Posts: 54,616
    matt said:

    Sandpit said:

    matt said:

    Sandpit said:

    IanB2 said:

    Sandpit said:

    IanB2 said:

    It's not impracticable. Certainly not with current engineering. Lots of places in the world have built dramatic new airports. Hong Kong is one of my favourites.
    It wasn’t the physical building of it that made it impracticable. It was the distance from its customer base, the lack of a workforce, tons and tons of birds, and the political inability to either decommission or find a new role for Heathrow that made it a nonsense scheme.
    Not to mention the winter fog in the estuary, the interference with flight paths at Amsterdam airport, the unexploded WWII bombs all over the site...
    Yes indeed.

    I was at the press conference when Boris launched the idea (and during which I though he seemed to be lining up a larger Stansted as his fallback), and when he was asked what would happen to Heathrow and its employing much of west London, and he genuinely didn’t appear to have an answer. He blustered for a bit and then said something about making it a “regional airport”; within a few days in the media he was talking about decommissioning and the opportunity to build tons of new homes.
    Oh, and all of the international companies with regional headquarters on the M4 and M3 corridors, for whom proximity to the airport is a key consideration. And the M25 being a car park at the best of times already, with a bottleneck around the Dartford crossings, and that the maths didn’t work without closing LHR completely and selling off the land afterwards.

    Yes, it was a nice idea in someone’s mind, but totally implausible in practice. Boris stuck with the idea long after it was pointed out to him that it was never plausibly going to happen.

    LHR is where it is, and the only plausible way forward from here is expanding it. If we’d spend the last decade building the third runway instead of arguing about it, millions of tonnes of carbon emissions would have saved, generated as they are by having hundreds of planes flying around in circles every day waiting to get their landing slot.
    Thanks for the view from Dubai.
    Where two new runways would have been built, in the time the U.K. has been arguing about this one.
    It’s easy when it’s a despotic regime with a thin attention to the rule of law and the labouring is done by indentured servants from India who are seen as subhuman.

    Enjoy your weight gain!
    You’re confusing Dubai with Qatar. Maybe you’d prefer instead to engage in discussion over airport expansion in London?
This discussion has been closed.