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  • oxfordsimonoxfordsimon Posts: 5,842
    I see we are getting Angry Corbyn today with a large amount of hypocrisy.
  • MarqueeMarkMarqueeMark Posts: 52,609
    Sean_F said:

    stodge said:

    Sean_F said:

    FPT Conservative Remainers. It should be remembered that many of them didn't like the EU much, and even if, on balance, they thought it better to stay in, they were not much upset about leaving. For at least a generation, if you're strongly pro-EU, the Conservative party has not been your natural home.

    True, but there is a slice of Conservativism which is "No emotional attachment to the EU, not got a problem with leaving as such, but let's be realistic and careful out there. Not fearful, but careful." Think Rory Stewart as an example.

    That slice might be thin, and a lot of them would have chosen Boris over Jez last month. But not every opponent will be as bad as Jez '19.
    Agreed, the Conservative Remainers were the final piece in the voting coalition jigsaw. They obviously couldn't stomach the prospect of Corbyn as PM and couldn't risk an LD protest vote on that basis.

    In addition, there were those Remain voters who, for all they opposed the decision to leave the EU, recognised it was a democratic vote which needed to be enacted and Johnson was the only one pledging so to do.

    Those two groups added to the 75% of Leave voters gave Johnson his victorious coalition. The question for the future is once we have left the EU how or indeed if that coalition can hang together.
    Admittedly, the Conservatives were also lucky to beat the Lib Dems in a number of hyper-marginal Remain seats. South Cambridgeshire, Guildford, Hazel Grove, Wimbledon, Esher & Walton, Cheadle, Winchester, Cheltenham, could all have fallen the other way.
    Lucky Tories or not, the LibDems will need something more to offer these seats next time if they are not to travel backwards.
  • I see we are getting Angry Corbyn today with a large amount of hypocrisy.

    2 more months of this shit to go....
  • MarqueeMarkMarqueeMark Posts: 52,609
    edited January 2020

    I see we are getting Angry Corbyn today with a large amount of hypocrisy.

    He has extensive anger stocks to use up before their April best-before date.....
  • FrancisUrquhartFrancisUrquhart Posts: 82,121
    edited January 2020

    twitter.com/lukeakehurst/status/1222458278120251392

    All the biased medja fault....so much for period of reflection and learning what went wrong. I mean cos Boris got no incoming at all, none at all...racist, liar, adulterer, and worst of all BREXITEER.
  • HYUFDHYUFD Posts: 123,148
    edited January 2020

    Sean_F said:

    stodge said:

    Sean_F said:

    FPT Conservative Remainers. It should be remembered that many of them didn't like the EU much, and even if, on balance, they thought it better to stay in, they were not much upset about leaving. For at least a generation, if you're strongly pro-EU, the Conservative party has not been your natural home.

    True, but there is a slice of Conservativism which is "No emotional attachment to the EU, not got a problem with leaving as such, but let's be realistic and careful out there. Not fearful, but careful." Think Rory Stewart as an example.

    That slice might be thin, and a lot of them would have chosen Boris over Jez last month. But not every opponent will be as bad as Jez '19.
    Agreed, the Conservative Remainers were the final piece in the voting coalition jigsaw. They obviously couldn't stomach the prospect of Corbyn as PM and couldn't risk an LD protest vote on that basis.

    In addition, there were those Remain voters who, for all they opposed the decision to leave the EU, recognised it was a democratic vote which needed to be enacted and Johnson was the only one pledging so to do.

    Those two groups added to the 75% of Leave voters gave Johnson his victorious coalition. The question for the future is once we have left the EU how or indeed if that coalition can hang together.
    Admittedly, the Conservatives were also lucky to beat the Lib Dems in a number of hyper-marginal Remain seats. South Cambridgeshire, Guildford, Hazel Grove, Wimbledon, Esher & Walton, Cheadle, Winchester, Cheltenham, could all have fallen the other way.
    Lucky Tories or not, the LibDems will need something more to offer these seats next time if they are not to travel backwards.
    Starmer being PM not Corbyn if they vote LD might be enough in these southern Remain areas
  • NickPalmerNickPalmer Posts: 21,533
    nova said:

    Surely, they had nearly twice that number in the 1950s?

    It's like "history began with the Premier League" :)
    It's the highest number since 1970, but was 50% higher at the 1950s peak.

    https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Labour_Party_(UK)#/media/File:Labour_Party_membership_graph.svg

    That said, it's the closest to a mass membership party that I can think of anywhere in the modern Western world, when such things have become unfashionable. It's not a sufficient basis to win elections, but it's nonetheless very preferable to the common pattern of a declining membership of elderly folk plus a bunch of careerists.
  • HYUFDHYUFD Posts: 123,148
    stodge said:

    Sandpit said:


    Building more houses is not by itself the solution, but it’s certainly a prerequisite.

    That's just sloppy thinking. Major developments such as Battersea/Nine Elms, Barking Riverside and Fresh Wharf are about thousands of new homes, mainly if not exclusively flats.

    Some will be affordable and some will be available on shared ownership though nowhere near enough in my view. The point is if you build 3,000 flats you add a minimum of 6,000 (and likely more) people to an area.

    That puts pressure on transport, health care provision, schools and a range of other services including (not surprisingly) sewage, water supply, electrical infrastructure all of which need spending to be improved and you'd better believe a Section 106 doesn't get anywhere near that.

    A Section 106 might get you a new community facility for a medical centre which is fine for the 6,000 people who all need a GP but what about transport? Let's say 4,500 commute so that's extra people being jammed onto a system already at or beyond capacity in peak periods so where are the extra trains, the extra tracks, the extra capacity?

    Answer came there none.

    Housing needs planning - housing needs infrastructure, housing needs money spent before a single flat is built. That, unfortunately, is not how we are doing it. we are doing it to maximise profit for property developers, construction companies (many of whom employ EU migrant workers so that'll be interesting) and estate agents as well as the Government.
    Local plans from councils include infrastructure
  • HYUFDHYUFD Posts: 123,148
    stodge said:

    Morning All :)

    Onto things far more important than Welsh opinion polls.

    Housing, as I have to remind Conservatives regularly, isn't just a question of building houses and flats and watching property developers and estate agents (and of course the Government) grow fatter on the process.

    It's also about those who don't have a home and the truth is the increasing gap between rents and housing benefits combined with the shortage of affordable housing is causing families (remember the "hard working families" so beloved of the modern Tories) real distress.

    7,110 households are currently in bed and breakfast accommodation, a 15-year high while Council spending on the homeless rose to £643 million which was in itself an overspend on the planned spend of £502 million.

    Of that spend, £115 million goes on keeping families in bed and breakfast accommodation.

    Now, Government supporters might argue the Homelessness Reduction Act of 2019 is the answer to all this - no, it isn't. The Act puts more duties onto Councils but doesn't provide additional funding nor does it magically provide the affordable housing so badly needed.

    As an aside, we are also seeing with this Government a clear agenda to weaken the rental sector in favour of home ownership but not everyone can afford to buy and a strong rental sector is vital to satisfy the demand in that sector of the housing market.

    Why is the Conservative agenda all about home ownership? Simply because all the evidence suggests once you own your own home you're more likely to vote Conservative so it's a political agenda rather than a genuine attempt to tackle the chronic housing problems in this country which start of course with the price of land and its limited supply.

    Boris has promised 1 million new homes by 2024 including lifetime rental deposits

    https://www.dailymail.co.uk/news/article-7708321/Tories-pledge-million-homes-five-years.html
  • Sean_F said:

    stodge said:

    Sean_F said:

    FPT Conservative Remainers. It should be remembered that many of them didn't like the EU much, and even if, on balance, they thought it better to stay in, they were not much upset about leaving. For at least a generation, if you're strongly pro-EU, the Conservative party has not been your natural home.

    True, but there is a slice of Conservativism which is "No emotional attachment to the EU, not got a problem with leaving as such, but let's be realistic and careful out there. Not fearful, but careful." Think Rory Stewart as an example.

    That slice might be thin, and a lot of them would have chosen Boris over Jez last month. But not every opponent will be as bad as Jez '19.
    Agreed, the Conservative Remainers were the final piece in the voting coalition jigsaw. They obviously couldn't stomach the prospect of Corbyn as PM and couldn't risk an LD protest vote on that basis.

    In addition, there were those Remain voters who, for all they opposed the decision to leave the EU, recognised it was a democratic vote which needed to be enacted and Johnson was the only one pledging so to do.

    Those two groups added to the 75% of Leave voters gave Johnson his victorious coalition. The question for the future is once we have left the EU how or indeed if that coalition can hang together.
    Admittedly, the Conservatives were also lucky to beat the Lib Dems in a number of hyper-marginal Remain seats. South Cambridgeshire, Guildford, Hazel Grove, Wimbledon, Esher & Walton, Cheadle, Winchester, Cheltenham, could all have fallen the other way.
    A huge problem for the LDs was their poor result at GE2017 and generally tactical voting choices were based on what happened then. In just about all of them the CON lead over the LDs was smaller than the LAB vote. Also the LDs campaign was poor
    If only the voters had had a LibDem polling expert advising them.....
    Perhaps next General Election Lib Dem polling experts can do better at targeting seats.

    Seeing Lib Dem polling experts tell voters in seats like Warrington South that voting Conservative was a wasted vote and that Conservative voters should vote Liberal Democrat to deny Labour the seat was especially bemusing.

    image
  • GallowgateGallowgate Posts: 19,468
    HYUFD said:

    stodge said:

    Morning All :)

    Onto things far more important than Welsh opinion polls.

    Housing, as I have to remind Conservatives regularly, isn't just a question of building houses and flats and watching property developers and estate agents (and of course the Government) grow fatter on the process.

    It's also about those who don't have a home and the truth is the increasing gap between rents and housing benefits combined with the shortage of affordable housing is causing families (remember the "hard working families" so beloved of the modern Tories) real distress.

    7,110 households are currently in bed and breakfast accommodation, a 15-year high while Council spending on the homeless rose to £643 million which was in itself an overspend on the planned spend of £502 million.

    Of that spend, £115 million goes on keeping families in bed and breakfast accommodation.

    Now, Government supporters might argue the Homelessness Reduction Act of 2019 is the answer to all this - no, it isn't. The Act puts more duties onto Councils but doesn't provide additional funding nor does it magically provide the affordable housing so badly needed.

    As an aside, we are also seeing with this Government a clear agenda to weaken the rental sector in favour of home ownership but not everyone can afford to buy and a strong rental sector is vital to satisfy the demand in that sector of the housing market.

    Why is the Conservative agenda all about home ownership? Simply because all the evidence suggests once you own your own home you're more likely to vote Conservative so it's a political agenda rather than a genuine attempt to tackle the chronic housing problems in this country which start of course with the price of land and its limited supply.

    Boris has promised 1 million new homes by 2024 including lifetime rental deposits

    https://www.dailymail.co.uk/news/article-7708321/Tories-pledge-million-homes-five-years.html
    He always keeps his promises.
  • Casino_RoyaleCasino_Royale Posts: 60,491
    Sean_F said:

    stodge said:

    Sean_F said:

    FPT Conservative Remainers. It should be remembered that many of them didn't like the EU much, and even if, on balance, they thought it better to stay in, they were not much upset about leaving. For at least a generation, if you're strongly pro-EU, the Conservative party has not been your natural home.

    True, but there is a slice of Conservativism which is "No emotional attachment to the EU, not got a problem with leaving as such, but let's be realistic and careful out there. Not fearful, but careful." Think Rory Stewart as an example.

    That slice might be thin, and a lot of them would have chosen Boris over Jez last month. But not every opponent will be as bad as Jez '19.
    Agreed, the Conservative Remainers were the final piece in the voting coalition jigsaw. They obviously couldn't stomach the prospect of Corbyn as PM and couldn't risk an LD protest vote on that basis.

    In addition, there were those Remain voters who, for all they opposed the decision to leave the EU, recognised it was a democratic vote which needed to be enacted and Johnson was the only one pledging so to do.

    Those two groups added to the 75% of Leave voters gave Johnson his victorious coalition. The question for the future is once we have left the EU how or indeed if that coalition can hang together.
    Admittedly, the Conservatives were also lucky to beat the Lib Dems in a number of hyper-marginal Remain seats. South Cambridgeshire, Guildford, Hazel Grove, Wimbledon, Esher & Walton, Cheadle, Winchester, Cheltenham, could all have fallen the other way.
    I’ve said before on here that I think Boris should write Conservative Remainers a thank you letter.

    They’ve been absolutely staunch in an environment that now smells almost 100% leave.
  • Casino_RoyaleCasino_Royale Posts: 60,491
    I started on here in the build up to the 2005GE too, I think. It’s been impossible to put down since.

    I’ve sailed very close to the wind at times with my use of it at work.

    Earlier in my career, my client at the time once said to me, “stop playing angry birds!”, which led to me reining it in a bit.
  • Lindsay Hoyle slaps down Bercow's previous actions
  • Lindsay Hoyle slaps down Bercow's previous actions

    What did he say?

    Funny how PMQs only takes half an hour again now.
  • JohnLilburneJohnLilburne Posts: 6,260
    malcolmg said:

    kicorse said:



    Depends whether you define "winning" as "gaining a majority" or "forming a functional government". It is, of course, the latter that they need.

    I guess my point is that anyone in Labour who is focusing on the electoral system right now has the wrong priority. Let the Electoral Reform Society and the Lib Dems do that.The less time the Opposition spends complaining about FPTP, the more chance they have of getting rid of it.

    Frankly, I can see no chance of a Labour "win" -- however defined -- without a substantial recovery in Scotland.

    I'd say Keir & Becky have come to the same conclusion:

    https://www.theguardian.com/politics/2020/jan/26/rebecca-long-bailey-calls-for-greater-powers-for-scotland-and-wales

    Devo-max, or a fully federal UK, is probably the only thing that can help Labour in Scotland now. This kind of change goes hand in hand with electoral reform.

    My guess is that if the Labour party "wins" the next election, it will do only with a mandate for, and support from, those wanting massive constitutional change.
    They will have no recovery under those donkeys, labour have been promising home rule since 1888, they are a bunch of liars. Until they have a real Scottish labour party rather than London sock puppets , they will remain where they are circling the drain
    "Nations and regions". I'm sure that doesn't mean Dyfed, or Lothian. They want to destroy England and split it into penny packets.
  • I found out about the site in 2007 which now seems very early but at the time I felt like a newbie on an extremely well-established site.

    I don't want to try to calculate how many hours I've spent on pb over the years.

    Non billable hours 'n' all!
  • "...unrelenting attacks on the character of the Party Leader..."

    And, of course, no-one ever said anything disobliging about Boris - for the sake of balance.
  • Lindsay Hoyle slaps down Bercow's previous actions

    What did he say?

    Funny how PMQs only takes half an hour again now.
    Effectively any decision the speaker makes which is not agreed in principle by the clerks will be open to challenge removing the speakers ability to make unaccountable decisions
  • MarqueeMarkMarqueeMark Posts: 52,609

    Lindsay Hoyle slaps down Bercow's previous actions

    What did he say?

    Funny how PMQs only takes half an hour again now.
    Effectively any decision the speaker makes which is not agreed in principle by the clerks will be open to challenge removing the speakers ability to make unaccountable decisions
    As the great eraser of time moves across the pencil marks of Bercow.....
  • justin124justin124 Posts: 11,527

    Sean_F said:

    HYUFD said:

    Encouraging sign ahead of the Welsh Assembly election next year
    Wales has been trending Tory more or less since 1970 (albeit, Labour has outperformed in some years, like 1987 and 2017).
    .
    /blockquote>

    I think Labour will lose power in Wales in 2021. They only have a majority now thanks to the defection of DET from Plaid Cymru and the support of the ever pliable Kirsty Williams (the last LibDem standing).

    Carwyn Jones (like or him) not was an impressive media performer. His successor Mark Drakeford is not.

    My point is only that 2021 is a tough test for the new leader, and it is likely to be very difficult to get a Labour success story to tell.

    I don't see much positive emerging in Scotland. The best Labour can hope in Wales is to be largest party (though even that is doubtful), so the headline will be "Labour loses Wales".

    Sean_F said:

    HYUFD said:

    Encouraging sign ahead of the Welsh Assembly election next year
    Wales has been trending Tory more or less since 1970 (albeit, Labour has outperformed in some years, like 1987 and 2017).
    being the other parties (except the LibDems).
    I think Labour will lose power in Wales in 2021. They only have a majority now thanks to the defection of DET from Plaid Cymru and the support of the ever pliable Kirsty Williams (the last LibDem standing).

    Carwyn Jones (like or him) not was an impressive media performer. His successor Mark Drakeford is not.

    My point is only that 2021 is a tough test for the new leader, and it is likely to be very difficult to get a Labour success story to tell.

    I don't see much positive emerging in Scotland. The best Labour can hope in Wales is to be largest party (though even that is doubtful), so the headline will be "Labour loses Wales".
    Much can change in over 15 months.By May 2021 Labour may well be ahead in the polls - particularly in Wales.
  • MarqueeMarkMarqueeMark Posts: 52,609
    HYUFD said:

    Sean_F said:

    stodge said:

    Sean_F said:

    FPT Conservative Remainers. It should be remembered that many of them didn't like the EU much, and even if, on balance, they thought it better to stay in, they were not much upset about leaving. For at least a generation, if you're strongly pro-EU, the Conservative party has not been your natural home.

    True, but there is a slice of Conservativism which is "No emotional attachment to the EU, not got a problem with leaving as such, but let's be realistic and careful out there. Not fearful, but careful." Think Rory Stewart as an example.

    That slice might be thin, and a lot of them would have chosen Boris over Jez last month. But not every opponent will be as bad as Jez '19.
    Agreed, the Conservative Remainers were the final piece in the voting coalition jigsaw. They obviously couldn't stomach the prospect of Corbyn as PM and couldn't risk an LD protest vote on that basis.

    In addition, there were those Remain voters who, for all they opposed the decision to leave the EU, recognised it was a democratic vote which needed to be enacted and Johnson was the only one pledging so to do.

    Those two groups added to the 75% of Leave voters gave Johnson his victorious coalition. The question for the future is once we have left the EU how or indeed if that coalition can hang together.
    Admittedly, the Conservatives were also lucky to beat the Lib Dems in a number of hyper-marginal Remain seats. South Cambridgeshire, Guildford, Hazel Grove, Wimbledon, Esher & Walton, Cheadle, Winchester, Cheltenham, could all have fallen the other way.
    Lucky Tories or not, the LibDems will need something more to offer these seats next time if they are not to travel backwards.
    Starmer being PM not Corbyn if they vote LD might be enough in these southern Remain areas
    "Remain areas" has a limited shelf life. Certainly going to be a bit whiffy by the time of the next election....
  • This is guy is so relaxed he is practically horizontal...

    https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=D4vFj5GsBnE&
  • Gabs3Gabs3 Posts: 836
    What evidence do we actually have that all these new members are moderates?
  • Gabs3 said:

    What evidence do we actually have that all these new members are moderates?
    The only way that will be answered is when the votes are counted and the result known
  • viewcodeviewcode Posts: 22,127
    Nigelb said:

    kinabalu said:

    I found out about the site in 2007 which now seems very early but at the time I felt like a newbie on an extremely well-established site.

    I don't want to try to calculate how many hours I've spent on pb over the years.

    You could have written a series of best selling novels and become rich and famous.

    But so what? Much better to argue politics on the internet.
    If only a regular PB poster had managed to do both...
    Nah, he gave up on PB.
    Indeed. And had never posted here since. In any form. Heaven forfend.
  • CyclefreeCyclefree Posts: 25,318
    edited January 2020
    Well.

    As if laryngitis - I assume that’s what having a throat which feels as if barbed wire has been stuffed into it means - wasn’t enough, my car got a flat tyre so I had to leave it at the garage and trudge back home via the beach front on a cold stormy day. At the end of the lane facing the sea, there was a sign proudly announcing the roll out of fast broadband in the area and money from the EU Regional Development Fund. The latter sign had been scratched quite badly. Staring out at the foamy waves of the Atlantic while coughing and wheezing, I felt like some abandoned 19th century governess.

    Still the local shop announces proudly that it sells ice cream for dogs. In January.

    Hardy types, Cumbrians.
  • HYUFDHYUFD Posts: 123,148
    edited January 2020

    HYUFD said:

    Sean_F said:

    stodge said:

    Sean_F said:

    FPT Conservative Remainers. It should be remembered that many of them didn't like the EU much, and even if, on balance, they thought it better to stay in, they were not much upset about leaving. For at least a generation, if you're strongly pro-EU, the Conservative party has not been your natural home.

    True, but there is a slice of Conservativism which is "No emotional attachment to the EU, not got a problem with leaving as such, but let's be realistic and careful out there. Not fearful, but careful." Think Rory Stewart as an example.

    That slice might be thin, and a lot of them would have chosen Boris over Jez last month. But not every opponent will be as bad as Jez '19.
    Agreed, the Conservative Remainers were the final piece in the voting coalition jigsaw. They obviously couldn't stomach the prospect of Corbyn as PM and couldn't risk an LD protest vote on that basis.

    In addition, there were those Remain voters who, for all they opposed the decision to leave the EU, recognised it was a democratic vote which needed to be enacted and Johnson was the only one pledging so to do.

    Those two groups added to the 75% of Leave voters gave Johnson his victorious coalition. The question for the future is once we have left the EU how or indeed if that coalition can hang together.
    Admittedly, the Conservatives were also lucky to beat the Lib Dems in a number of hyper-marginal Remain seats. South Cambridgeshire, Guildford, Hazel Grove, Wimbledon, Esher & Walton, Cheadle, Winchester, Cheltenham, could all have fallen the other way.
    Lucky Tories or not, the LibDems will need something more to offer these seats next time if they are not to travel backwards.
    Starmer being PM not Corbyn if they vote LD might be enough in these southern Remain areas
    "Remain areas" has a limited shelf life. Certainly going to be a bit whiffy by the time of the next election....
    Depends how a hard Brexit goes with likely only a basic trade deal for goods minimising tariffs with the EU, while strong Leave areas will remain enthusiastic, Remain and soft Leave areas may be less so
  • rottenboroughrottenborough Posts: 62,769
    Gabs3 said:

    What evidence do we actually have that all these new members are moderates?
    If they raving Left then why on earth weren't they members when Jezza was the Anointed One?
  • RobDRobD Posts: 59,936
    edited January 2020
    Cyclefree said:

    Well.

    As if laryngitis - I assume that’s what having a throat which feels as if barbed wire has been stuffed into it means - wasn’t enough, my car got a flat tyre so I had to leave it at the garage and trudge back home via the beach front on a cold stormy day. At the end of the lane facing the sea, there was a sign proudly announcing the roll out of fast broadband in the area and money from the EU Regional Development Fund. The latter sign had been scratched quite badly. Staring out at the foamy waves of the Atlantic while coughing and wheezing, I felt like some abandoned 19th century governess.

    Still the local shop announces proudly that it sells ice cream for dogs. In January.

    Hardy types, Cumbrians.

    At least some of the membership fee had been put to good use then. ;)
  • NigelbNigelb Posts: 71,230
    glw said:

    Nigelb said:

    glw said:

    Be in no doubt, this is a deeply unsatisfactory position for the Government - and the country - to have got itself into. How on earth did we come to rely for critical infrastructure on a single supplier from a potentially hostile world superpower? The new Prime Minister must be cursing his predecessors for having left him with such a hot potato.

    https://www.telegraph.co.uk/business/2020/01/28/dont-misled-huawei-affair-lot-paranoid-fuss-nothing/

    The UK has never had any significant mobile carrier technology supplier.

    You can go right back to the post-war years to lay blame. Back when we just assumed than Made in Japan meant cheap crap knock-offs, but instead Japan rapidly became one of the main suppliers of electronics. You might have thought we would learn our lesson when South Korea did the same trick, and that we would certainly have twigged that China would follow the same path. We did not learn any such lesson.

    So we now live in a world were electronics = Asia, and even the richest companies rely on Asian suppliers and manufacturers to turn their designs into products...
    On all of those cases, though, there was effectively some form of state capitalism which gave the new sectors room to grow. Here we had either state, or capitalism, but never the combination.
    Mind you that kind of interventionist capitalism came at a high price, it wasn't as though any of the countries I mentioned were happy-clappy liberal democracies when their economies were being transformed. If you want to get stuff done, either do away with democracy or make sure that only the right people can ever win. ;)
    That was rather my point - that those kinds of successful state interventions have never really been available to us (though South Korea has been a relatively liberal democracy since the 1987 June Democracy Movement, and Samsung has enjoyed significant state support in developing since then).

    And again, it's not as though its not possible to compete against the Chinese behemoth - South Korea (again) has successfully eaten their lunch in the bulk shipbuilding market.

    Perhaps we should be taking a closer look at S. Korea...
  • Richard_NabaviRichard_Nabavi Posts: 30,821
    edited January 2020
    Cyclefree said:


    Still the local shop announces proudly that it sells ice cream for dogs. In January.

    Hardy types, Cumbrians.

    Or at least their dogs are.
  • HYUFD said:
    Sounds familiar.

    'Scottish Secretary Alister Jack backs IndyRef2 'mandate' if SNP wins 2021 Holyrood majority'

    https://tinyurl.com/syho358

  • NigelbNigelb Posts: 71,230
    viewcode said:

    Nigelb said:

    kinabalu said:

    I found out about the site in 2007 which now seems very early but at the time I felt like a newbie on an extremely well-established site.

    I don't want to try to calculate how many hours I've spent on pb over the years.

    You could have written a series of best selling novels and become rich and famous.
    But so what? Much better to argue politics on the internet.
    If only a regular PB poster had managed to do both...
    Nah, he gave up on PB.
    Indeed. And had never posted here since. In any form. Heaven forfend.
    That's probably what his publisher has heard.
  • IanB2IanB2 Posts: 49,868
    kjh said:

    kjh said:

    Foxy said:

    kjh said:

    Is it me or does it appear we are dealing with this virus very badly. In fact we appear to be doing our level best to spread it by the actions we are taking to control it. We should either be doing nothing or doing it properly.

    Flying people out to all around the world seems exceedingly daft and to top it all we tell people to self quarantine, but expect them to make their own way home from the airport in packed trains, buses and tubes.

    Couldn't plan the spread better if one tried.

    It looks as if evacuees to the UK will also be quarantined for 2 weeks

    BBC News - Coronavirus: Britons on Wuhan flights to be quarantined
    https://www.bbc.co.uk/news/uk-51292590
    I wonder if that is after the ranting this morning about the stupidity of what people were being told to do.

    I also wonder whether it is too late. Would it not be better to leave people in place and look after their needs there.
    See BBC this morning.
    By the time these various nationals evacuated from China escape from their quarantines, the incidence of this virus is likely to be worldwide.
  • NigelbNigelb Posts: 71,230
    Back on topic...

    https://fivethirtyeight.com/features/why-this-might-be-the-most-competitive-iowa-caucuses-ever/
    ...despite those caveats, the data we do have suggests that this year’s caucuses may be the most competitive and crowded Iowa has ever had. There are more candidates polling within 10 points of the leading contender than in any race since 1980 and a record-tying number of candidates polling above 15 percent, with another just below that mark. Whether one candidate will get a late boom or bust remains to be seen, but with a week to go, no candidate is close to being a clear favorite. That makes for an exciting and potentially unpredictable finish, so get ready for the final sprint.
  • mattmatt Posts: 3,789
    Nigelb said:

    glw said:

    Nigelb said:

    glw said:

    Be in no doubt, this is a deeply unsatisfactory position for the Government - and the country - to have got itself into. How on earth did we come to rely for critical infrastructure on a single supplier from a potentially hostile world superpower? The new Prime Minister must be cursing his predecessors for having left him with such a hot potato.

    https://www.telegraph.co.uk/business/2020/01/28/dont-misled-huawei-affair-lot-paranoid-fuss-nothing/

    The UK has never had any significant mobile carrier technology supplier.

    You can go right back to the post-war years to lay blame. Back when we just assumed than Made in Japan meant cheap crap knock-offs, but instead Japan rapidly became one of the main suppliers of electronics. You might have thought we would learn our lesson when South Korea did the same trick, and that we would certainly have twigged that China would follow the same path. We did not learn any such lesson.

    So we now live in a world were electronics = Asia, and even the richest companies rely on Asian suppliers and manufacturers to turn their designs into products...
    On all of those cases, though, there was effectively some form of state capitalism which gave the new sectors room to grow. Here we had either state, or capitalism, but never the combination.
    Mind you that kind of interventionist capitalism came at a high price, it wasn't as though any of the countries I mentioned were happy-clappy liberal democracies when their economies were being transformed. If you want to get stuff done, either do away with democracy or make sure that only the right people can ever win. ;)
    That was rather my point - that those kinds of successful state interventions have never really been available to us (though South Korea has been a relatively liberal democracy since the 1987 June Democracy Movement, and Samsung has enjoyed significant state support in developing since then).

    And again, it's not as though its not possible to compete against the Chinese behemoth - South Korea (again) has successfully eaten their lunch in the bulk shipbuilding market.

    Perhaps we should be taking a closer look at S. Korea...
    Have you been there? It’s shit, absolutely no redeeming features. Mind you in the business I work in Koreans are making the same mistakes that the Chinese made 10 years ago and some new ones. In particular they believe that they know better, all the time.

    Does the folding screen phone now work?&
  • IanB2IanB2 Posts: 49,868

    Cyclefree said:


    Still the local shop announces proudly that it sells ice cream for dogs. In January.

    Hardy types, Cumbrians.

    Or at least their dogs are.
    A wimpy dog would struggle in Cumbria.
  • HYUFDHYUFD Posts: 123,148

    HYUFD said:
    Sounds familiar.

    'Scottish Secretary Alister Jack backs IndyRef2 'mandate' if SNP wins 2021 Holyrood majority'

    https://tinyurl.com/syho358

    After Boris had a word Jack 'clarified' his comments and confirmed there would be no indyref2 even if the SNP won a majority at the 2021 Holyrood elections

    https://www.thenational.scot/politics/18157682.jack-changed-tune-indyref2-space-month/
  • PulpstarPulpstar Posts: 78,211
    Nigelb said:

    Back on topic...

    https://fivethirtyeight.com/features/why-this-might-be-the-most-competitive-iowa-caucuses-ever/
    ...despite those caveats, the data we do have suggests that this year’s caucuses may be the most competitive and crowded Iowa has ever had. There are more candidates polling within 10 points of the leading contender than in any race since 1980 and a record-tying number of candidates polling above 15 percent, with another just below that mark. Whether one candidate will get a late boom or bust remains to be seen, but with a week to go, no candidate is close to being a clear favorite. That makes for an exciting and potentially unpredictable finish, so get ready for the final sprint.

    Whoever wins will probably go odds on, unless it's Buttigieg, Warren or Klobuchar - whose price will crash just as much in implied % terms.
    Mind you the way Betfair acts, Bloomberg will probably be even money when we reach New Hampshire.
  • NigelbNigelb Posts: 71,230
    For those interested in the nuts and bolts of the 5G decision, there's quite a lot of detail available here:
    https://www.ncsc.gov.uk/report/summary-of-ncsc-security-analysis-for-the-uk-telecoms-sector
  • TheuniondivvieTheuniondivvie Posts: 42,002
    edited January 2020
    Who's going to break it to them that they are indubitably a Brexit bargaining chip?

    https://twitter.com/TheScotsman/status/1222228375714115587?s=20

  • SandyRentoolSandyRentool Posts: 22,038
    I've been here a few years. I think my all-time most ridiculous post on PB was:

    "The only question is whether Ed [Miliband] will want to serve more than two terms"

  • justin124justin124 Posts: 11,527
    Really interesting programme by Tom Mangold on the Profumo affair which strongly suggests that Stephen Ward was framed by the Establishment. The Judiciary came out of it very badly as pretty corrupt - as did the Metropolitan Police.It seems to have been a clear miscarriage of justice. There must be a strong case for revisiting the matter . Perhaps Corbyn should bring it up at PMQs!
  • HYUFDHYUFD Posts: 123,148
    edited January 2020

    Who's going to break it to them that they are indubitably a Brexit bargaining chip?

    https://twitter.com/TheScotsman/status/1222228375714115587?s=20

    Fishing ports now are represented by more Tory MPs than inner London, Manchester and Liverpool, Edinburgh, Glasgow, Birmingham, Nottingham and Cardiff and Newcastle combined so have a lot of influence with the Government
  • HYUFD said:

    HYUFD said:
    Sounds familiar.

    'Scottish Secretary Alister Jack backs IndyRef2 'mandate' if SNP wins 2021 Holyrood majority'

    https://tinyurl.com/syho358

    After Boris had a word Jack 'clarified' his comments and confirmed there would be no indyref2 even if the SNP won a majority at the 2021 Holyrood elections

    https://www.thenational.scot/politics/18157682.jack-changed-tune-indyref2-space-month/
    I see 'clarified' = complete U turn in BJ world.

    It's a long time since the Scottish SoS was Scotland's representative in Westminster rather than Westminster's satrap in Scotland.
  • ITV had a British / American guy who was being evacuated said that he was told that the city officials are talking about it being until April before Wuhan returns to normal.
  • IanB2IanB2 Posts: 49,868
    BREAKING: Northern loses its rail franchise
  • SandyRentoolSandyRentool Posts: 22,038
    IanB2 said:

    BREAKING: Northern loses its rail franchise

    This bloody Corbyn government - already started renationisation.
  • SandyRentoolSandyRentool Posts: 22,038

    ITV had a British / American guy who was being evacuated said that he was told that the city officials are talking about it being until April before Wuhan returns to normal.

    A plague village with 11 million inhabitants.
  • IanB2IanB2 Posts: 49,868

    Compare and contrast:

    https://twitter.com/PickardJE/status/1222423266045911040



    "The postmortem was grim. In the room, leading Labour MPs, recent party staffers and assorted Labour figures of long experience pored over the entrails exposed by the high priests of polling and academia. Pointers for the future lie in this gruesome raking over of the details. Too many in Labour give only token nods to the cataclysmic abyss that has opened up between the party and the voters out there."

    https://www.theguardian.com/commentisfree/2020/jan/28/labour-split-affection-corbyn

    An interesting example of article writers not being able to write their own headlines. The headline suggests Labour unity is achievable, yet PT’s article suggests the opposite.
  • NigelbNigelb Posts: 71,230
    An interesting article from Anne Applebaum:
    https://www.theatlantic.com/ideas/archive/2020/01/after-brexit-new-identity-crises-await-uk/605692/
    ...if we have learned anything in recent years, it is that strong political emotions do not fade away. The Occupy movement flared and then seemed to fizzle out—until it re-emerged in the form of Bernie Sanders’s 2016 presidential campaign and in the far-left surge that made Jeremy Corbyn leader of the British Labour Party. The anti-European Tories were a fringe group—until they took over their whole party. The kinds of people who marched for the People’s Vote, worked for Grieve, or became MEPs are now on the fringes, but they may re-emerge too. Perhaps the next Labour Party leader will find a way to galvanize them. Or perhaps they will end up somewhere else—as climate-change activists, for example, or in some role no one has even thought of yet. ...
  • IanB2IanB2 Posts: 49,868
    BJ’s riding his honeymoon at the moment, but it remains my view that he is one mistake away from becoming our most unpopular PM ever.
  • IanB2IanB2 Posts: 49,868

    Who's going to break it to them that they are indubitably a Brexit bargaining chip?

    https://twitter.com/TheScotsman/status/1222228375714115587?s=20

    Our fisherfolk were always a chip to be bargained away to get what we want for financial services. Those politicians that have led them to believe otherwise will have to carry the can when the inevitable sellout arrives. That our fishing industry employs fewer people than Harrods doubtless reassures those politicians that they can bear the fallout.
  • CookieCookie Posts: 13,836
    HYUFD said:

    stodge said:

    Sandpit said:


    Building more houses is not by itself the solution, but it’s certainly a prerequisite.

    That's just sloppy thinking. Major developments such as Battersea/Nine Elms, Barking Riverside and Fresh Wharf are about thousands of new homes, mainly if not exclusively flats.

    Some will be affordable and some will be available on shared ownership though nowhere near enough in my view. The point is if you build 3,000 flats you add a minimum of 6,000 (and likely more) people to an area.

    That puts pressure on transport, health care provision, schools and a range of other services including (not surprisingly) sewage, water supply, electrical infrastructure all of which need spending to be improved and you'd better believe a Section 106 doesn't get anywhere near that.

    A Section 106 might get you a new community facility for a medical centre which is fine for the 6,000 people who all need a GP but what about transport? Let's say 4,500 commute so that's extra people being jammed onto a system already at or beyond capacity in peak periods so where are the extra trains, the extra tracks, the extra capacity?

    Answer came there none.

    Housing needs planning - housing needs infrastructure, housing needs money spent before a single flat is built. That, unfortunately, is not how we are doing it. we are doing it to maximise profit for property developers, construction companies (many of whom employ EU migrant workers so that'll be interesting) and estate agents as well as the Government.
    Local plans from councils include infrastructure
    Planning infrastructure to meet the needs of growth is basically my job. Vast amounts of publix sector time and effort is spent on it. Google your relevant local authority's infrastructure plan. Infrastructure is hard to deliver, because we aren't a totalitarian state and we are reluctant to inconvenience individuals for the greater good, in comparison to other states. But it does happen.
    Speaking of which I should probably get back to work.

    Oh, and on thread, wasn't there also some story about needing to set upthe site to get away from people wanting to discuss reality television? I found the site when looking for detail about the Cheadle by-election in 2005, rapidly getting drawn into a conversation about cheese.
  • MarqueeMarkMarqueeMark Posts: 52,609

    ITV had a British / American guy who was being evacuated said that he was told that the city officials are talking about it being until April before Wuhan returns to normal.

    If "normal" means people paying to visit the place, then that looks on the early side.....
  • AnabobazinaAnabobazina Posts: 23,486
    Northern.

    East Coast.

    London Underground.

    NI Railways.

    Railways slowly but surely heading back into public hands.
  • eekeek Posts: 28,405
    IanB2 said:

    Who's going to break it to them that they are indubitably a Brexit bargaining chip?

    https://twitter.com/TheScotsman/status/1222228375714115587?s=20

    Our fisherfolk were always a chip to be bargained away to get what we want for financial services. Those politicians that have led them to believe otherwise will have to carry the can when the inevitable sellout arrives. That our fishing industry employs fewer people than Harrods doubtless reassures those politicians that they can bear the fallout.
    4 years to the next election - the news won't even be chip papers by then it will be completely forgotten.
  • AnabobazinaAnabobazina Posts: 23,486
    What is franchising for?
  • IanB2IanB2 Posts: 49,868

    Northern.

    East Coast.

    London Underground.

    NI Railways.

    Railways slowly but surely heading back into public hands.

    The big picture of our current politics is that people have elected a Conservative government in circumstances that will force it to do mostly non Conservative things.
  • glwglw Posts: 9,912
    HYUFD said:
    I have to admit that the World War Six made me chuckle.
  • Northern.

    East Coast.

    London Underground.

    NI Railways.

    Railways slowly but surely heading back into public hands.

    South western next but one of the biggest problems is caused by the already nationalised Network Rail
  • NigelbNigelb Posts: 71,230
    glw said:

    HYUFD said:
    I have to admit that the World War Six made me chuckle.
    When two @ssholes fall out, do we pick a side, or just enjoy the fight ?
  • NigelbNigelb Posts: 71,230
    A Few Thoughts of a Critical Nature on the Self-Regarding Buffoon Alan Dershowitz
    https://talkingpointsmemo.com/edblog/a-few-thoughts-of-a-critical-nature-on-the-self-regarding-buffoon-alan-dershowitz
    Before we move on I wanted to say a few words about this spectacularly self-regarding man, Alan Dershowitz, and his argument about the constitutional, rather than factual, insufficiency of the impeachment charges brought against President Trump. It is no exaggeration to say that the overwhelming bordering on universal weight of scholarly and historical opinion is that Dershowitz is wrong. But mine isn’t an argument to authority. It’s an overwhelming consensus because it is almost certainly correct. To note just one example, literally during the months in which the Constitution was being written Britain was roiled by an extremely high profile campaign for an impeachment which was on the basis not of statutory crimes but corruption and misrule.

    My aim here is not to rehearse the arguments about what constitutes an impeachable offense. Others are doing that. What is so notable is that not only is Dershowitz no expert on this issue and in no way knowledgeable about it. He positively advertises the fact, as part of his own self-glorification and self-involvement. Dershowitz explains that he took a diametrically opposed position about what constitutes an impeachable offense in 1998-99 because he hadn’t yet “researched” the topic. But in recent weeks, he points out, he’s ‘read all the books’ and come to this new conclusion. (Note that in 1998-99 Dershowitz had already been a professor at Harvard Law School for thirty-five years.)...
  • HYUFDHYUFD Posts: 123,148
    edited January 2020
    IanB2 said:

    Who's going to break it to them that they are indubitably a Brexit bargaining chip?

    https://twitter.com/TheScotsman/status/1222228375714115587?s=20

    Our fisherfolk were always a chip to be bargained away to get what we want for financial services. Those politicians that have led them to believe otherwise will have to carry the can when the inevitable sellout arrives. That our fishing industry employs fewer people than Harrods doubtless reassures those politicians that they can bear the fallout.
    Wrong financial services votes are now less important to the Tories than fishing under Boris.

    More marginal seats are held by the Tories in fishing areas than financial services working areas which are either safe Tory seats in the Home Counties or London Labour or LD seats.

    Fishing will get some restrictions on EU boats even at the cost of some restrictions on financial services access to the EU, the City is big enough to cope anyway
  • Did anyone resign over this or is it like the ex-BBC types who wait till they retire before noticing they've been doing it all wrong these past 20 years?
  • AnabobazinaAnabobazina Posts: 23,486

    Northern.

    East Coast.

    London Underground.

    NI Railways.

    Railways slowly but surely heading back into public hands.

    South western next but one of the biggest problems is caused by the already nationalised Network Rail
    Zzzzzzzz. Never the fault of the privateers, is it?

    When will you ever learn?
  • Northern.

    East Coast.

    London Underground.

    NI Railways.

    Railways slowly but surely heading back into public hands.

    South western next but one of the biggest problems is caused by the already nationalised Network Rail
    Zzzzzzzz. Never the fault of the privateers, is it?

    When will you ever learn?
    Both are to blame and if you are saying network rail are blameless you know nothing of the present problems in our railways
  • EndillionEndillion Posts: 4,976
    HYUFD said:

    IanB2 said:

    Who's going to break it to them that they are indubitably a Brexit bargaining chip?

    https://twitter.com/TheScotsman/status/1222228375714115587?s=20

    Our fisherfolk were always a chip to be bargained away to get what we want for financial services. Those politicians that have led them to believe otherwise will have to carry the can when the inevitable sellout arrives. That our fishing industry employs fewer people than Harrods doubtless reassures those politicians that they can bear the fallout.
    Wrong financial services votes are now less important to the Tories than fishing under Boris.

    More marginal seats are held by the Tories in fishing areas than financial services working areas which are either safe Tory seats in the Home Counties or London Labour or LD seats.

    Fishing will get some restrictions on EU boats even at the cost of some restrictions on financial services access to the EU, the City is big enough to cope anyway
    "Financial service working areas" is a bizarre term. Almost none of the people who work in either the City or Docklands live there, but those areas still employ at least a million people (directly and indirectly) in the South East of England.
  • JohnOJohnO Posts: 4,291

    https://twitter.com /jgforsyth/status/1222498953289175040?s=21

    Did anyone resign over this or is it like the ex-BBC types who wait till they retire before noticing they've been doing it all wrong these past 20 years?
    Robert Rogers (now Lord Lisvane) did resign as Clerk several years before any expected 'normal' retirement.
  • CarlottaVanceCarlottaVance Posts: 60,216

    Did anyone resign over this or is it like the ex-BBC types who wait till they retire before noticing they've been doing it all wrong these past 20 years?
    It’s the current office holder implicitly criticising his predecessor. Several of Bercow’s subordinates have criticised him in the past week:

    https://www.theguardian.com/politics/2020/jan/25/john-bercow-peerage-fresh-doubts-bullying-claims-resurface
  • IanB2 said:

    BREAKING: Northern loses its rail franchise

    This bloody Corbyn government - already started renationisation.
    Hopefully the Sunday-only Dales Rail from Clitheroe to Hellifield will no longer be cancelled each week...
  • Pro_RataPro_Rata Posts: 5,288
    Danny Kruger's maiden speech just now. I don't entirely agree with his sentiment, but he went about fully justifying Alistair Meeks one to watch prominence.
  • rpjsrpjs Posts: 3,787

    Northern.

    East Coast.

    London Underground.

    NI Railways.

    Railways slowly but surely heading back into public hands.

    Er, London Underground and Northern Ireland Railways were never privatised in the first place.
  • EndillionEndillion Posts: 4,976

    Northern.

    East Coast.

    London Underground.

    NI Railways.

    Railways slowly but surely heading back into public hands.

    South western next but one of the biggest problems is caused by the already nationalised Network Rail
    Zzzzzzzz. Never the fault of the privateers, is it?

    When will you ever learn?
    Privateers? Love it. I vote we stop issuing franchises, and bring back letters of marque immediately.
  • SandyRentoolSandyRentool Posts: 22,038

    IanB2 said:

    BREAKING: Northern loses its rail franchise

    This bloody Corbyn government - already started renationisation.
    Hopefully the Sunday-only Dales Rail from Clitheroe to Hellifield will no longer be cancelled each week...
    You mean you've not covered that section? Well, well!
  • Endillion said:

    Northern.

    East Coast.

    London Underground.

    NI Railways.

    Railways slowly but surely heading back into public hands.

    South western next but one of the biggest problems is caused by the already nationalised Network Rail
    Zzzzzzzz. Never the fault of the privateers, is it?

    When will you ever learn?
    Privateers? Love it. I vote we stop issuing franchises, and bring back letters of marque immediately.
    The replacement buses be at the rear of the station me hearties, aaaarh!
  • Big_G_NorthWalesBig_G_NorthWales Posts: 63,108
    edited January 2020
    Endillion said:

    Northern.

    East Coast.

    London Underground.

    NI Railways.

    Railways slowly but surely heading back into public hands.

    South western next but one of the biggest problems is caused by the already nationalised Network Rail
    Zzzzzzzz. Never the fault of the privateers, is it?

    When will you ever learn?
    Privateers? Love it. I vote we stop issuing franchises, and bring back letters of marque immediately.
    The Welsh labour government signed a 15 year franchise with Keolis Amey from 2018 to 2033

    In January 2020 it was fined £2.3 million for poor performance
  • rpjs said:

    Northern.

    East Coast.

    London Underground.

    NI Railways.

    Railways slowly but surely heading back into public hands.

    Er, London Underground and Northern Ireland Railways were never privatised in the first place.
    Translink will eventually go into privatisation, I believe.
  • Sunil_PrasannanSunil_Prasannan Posts: 51,880
    edited January 2020

    IanB2 said:

    BREAKING: Northern loses its rail franchise

    This bloody Corbyn government - already started renationisation.
    Hopefully the Sunday-only Dales Rail from Clitheroe to Hellifield will no longer be cancelled each week...
    You mean you've not covered that section? Well, well!
    I could do it as a day trip from London Euston via Preston, getting back home around 10pm. Being the uberiest geekiest person on PB, I always prefer to do a new route in both directions (if possible), and in daylight (if possible), always sitting facing forwards on the right-hand side of the train (um, again, if possible...). So sunset at Clitheroe after 17:36 arrival on the return trip would mean third Sunday in February.

  • Endillion said:

    Northern.

    East Coast.

    London Underground.

    NI Railways.

    Railways slowly but surely heading back into public hands.

    South western next but one of the biggest problems is caused by the already nationalised Network Rail
    Zzzzzzzz. Never the fault of the privateers, is it?

    When will you ever learn?
    Privateers? Love it. I vote we stop issuing franchises, and bring back letters of marque immediately.
    The Welsh labour government signed a 15 year franchise with Keolis Amey from 2018 to 2033

    In January 2020 it was fined £2.3 million for poor performance
    Transport for Wales?
  • contrariancontrarian Posts: 5,818
    One problem for the rail operators is they don't get to operate the bits that cause all the delays ie the track and the signals. Those bits are in public hands already.

    And yet nobody ever highlights the track and signals sh7ter than sh1te performance.
  • Endillion said:

    Northern.

    East Coast.

    London Underground.

    NI Railways.

    Railways slowly but surely heading back into public hands.

    South western next but one of the biggest problems is caused by the already nationalised Network Rail
    Zzzzzzzz. Never the fault of the privateers, is it?

    When will you ever learn?
    Privateers? Love it. I vote we stop issuing franchises, and bring back letters of marque immediately.
    The Welsh labour government signed a 15 year franchise with Keolis Amey from 2018 to 2033

    In January 2020 it was fined £2.3 million for poor performance
    Transport for Wales?
    Yes
  • Endillion said:

    HYUFD said:

    IanB2 said:

    Who's going to break it to them that they are indubitably a Brexit bargaining chip?

    https://twitter.com/TheScotsman/status/1222228375714115587?s=20

    Our fisherfolk were always a chip to be bargained away to get what we want for financial services. Those politicians that have led them to believe otherwise will have to carry the can when the inevitable sellout arrives. That our fishing industry employs fewer people than Harrods doubtless reassures those politicians that they can bear the fallout.
    Wrong financial services votes are now less important to the Tories than fishing under Boris.

    More marginal seats are held by the Tories in fishing areas than financial services working areas which are either safe Tory seats in the Home Counties or London Labour or LD seats.

    Fishing will get some restrictions on EU boats even at the cost of some restrictions on financial services access to the EU, the City is big enough to cope anyway
    "Financial service working areas" is a bizarre term. Almost none of the people who work in either the City or Docklands live there, but those areas still employ at least a million people (directly and indirectly) in the South East of England.
    HYUFD said:

    IanB2 said:

    Who's going to break it to them that they are indubitably a Brexit bargaining chip?

    https://twitter.com/TheScotsman/status/1222228375714115587?s=20

    Our fisherfolk were always a chip to be bargained away to get what we want for financial services. Those politicians that have led them to believe otherwise will have to carry the can when the inevitable sellout arrives. That our fishing industry employs fewer people than Harrods doubtless reassures those politicians that they can bear the fallout.
    Wrong financial services votes are now less important to the Tories than fishing under Boris.

    More marginal seats are held by the Tories in fishing areas than financial services working areas which are either safe Tory seats in the Home Counties or London Labour or LD seats.

    Fishing will get some restrictions on EU boats even at the cost of some restrictions on financial services access to the EU, the City is big enough to cope anyway
    The City does generate rather a lot of tax for the government you know - rather more than fishing and its 0.1% of GDP. Wreck that and Boris won't be winning many seats anywhere, let alone Grimsby.
  • Endillion said:

    Northern.

    East Coast.

    London Underground.

    NI Railways.

    Railways slowly but surely heading back into public hands.

    South western next but one of the biggest problems is caused by the already nationalised Network Rail
    Zzzzzzzz. Never the fault of the privateers, is it?

    When will you ever learn?
    Privateers? Love it. I vote we stop issuing franchises, and bring back letters of marque immediately.
    The replacement buses be at the rear of the station me hearties, aaaarh!
    "You will always remember this as the day you almost caught CAPTAIN Sunil Prasannan!"
  • Northern.

    East Coast.

    London Underground.

    NI Railways.

    Railways slowly but surely heading back into public hands.

    South western next but one of the biggest problems is caused by the already nationalised Network Rail
    Unless the law has been changed I dont think it is legal for the government to be a franchisee and the line must be refranchised.
  • EndillionEndillion Posts: 4,976

    Endillion said:

    Northern.

    East Coast.

    London Underground.

    NI Railways.

    Railways slowly but surely heading back into public hands.

    South western next but one of the biggest problems is caused by the already nationalised Network Rail
    Zzzzzzzz. Never the fault of the privateers, is it?

    When will you ever learn?
    Privateers? Love it. I vote we stop issuing franchises, and bring back letters of marque immediately.
    The replacement buses be at the rear of the station me hearties, aaaarh!
    I presume you mean astern of the station?
  • NigelbNigelb Posts: 71,230
    Endillion said:

    Endillion said:

    Northern.

    East Coast.

    London Underground.

    NI Railways.

    Railways slowly but surely heading back into public hands.

    South western next but one of the biggest problems is caused by the already nationalised Network Rail
    Zzzzzzzz. Never the fault of the privateers, is it?

    When will you ever learn?
    Privateers? Love it. I vote we stop issuing franchises, and bring back letters of marque immediately.
    The replacement buses be at the rear of the station me hearties, aaaarh!
    I presume you mean astern of the station?
    Oh poop.
  • speedy2speedy2 Posts: 981
    I remember 2004, Dean was the only one with charisma to beat Bush, when he lost Iowa I knew that Bush had won re-election.

    When the opponent has approval ratings close or above 50% you can't play it safe.
  • viewcodeviewcode Posts: 22,127
    edited January 2020

    IanB2 said:

    BREAKING: Northern loses its rail franchise

    This bloody Corbyn government - already started renationisation.
    Hopefully the Sunday-only Dales Rail from Clitheroe to Hellifield will no longer be cancelled each week...
    You mean you've not covered that section? Well, well!
    ...Being the uberiest geekiest person on PB...
    A geek is usually somebody who is into the social and spectator aspects of a phenomenon, whereas a nerd is detail-obsessed and participatory. Which would make you the uberiest nerdiest person on PB, not the geekiest.

    However since I am currently in distress about the "ohffschibnall" leaks on the internet on how the "Timeless Child" arc is to be resolved on this season's "Doctor Who" (tl:dr Chibnall is going to retcon an entire pre-Hartnell hitherto-unknown regeneration cycle of thirteen new Doctors), I think you have at least one competitor for the post.
  • Hurrah for Grant Shapps.

    That is all.
  • Wales Westminster VI
    Conservatives: 41% (+4)

    Labour: 36% (-4)

    Plaid Cymru: 13% (+3)

    Liberal Democrats: 5% (-1)

    Brexit Party: 3% (-2)

    Greens: 2% (+1)

    Others: 1 (no change)
This discussion has been closed.