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politicalbetting.com » Blog Archive » Will UKIP outpoll the Lib Dems at the 2015 General Election

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  • Good evening, everyone.

    Mr. Eagles, that's impossible. A man here assured me somebody called Gumede would win.

    Incidentally, as a result of your comment I went to check the prices. The SCD market is off, presumably because it's halfway through TV coverage and some will have inside knowledge, but there is a next James Bond market up. Idris Elba is third up, though his price was suspended.

    That'd be interesting. I think it's unreasonable to alter a character's demography where it's an inherent part of the role (Othello, for example), but I don't think being white is part of Bond's identity (unlike being a man and being British). I doubt it'll happen, though.

    Strictly's result show is being filmed right now, the results come through around 10.30pm.
  • The next James Bond has to be Tom Hiddleston
  • Life_ina_market_townLife_ina_market_town Posts: 2,319
    edited November 2013
    SeanT said:

    The drummer Rigby murder trial might be impacting the UKIP score.

    Wait until you hear the case for the defence.
  • Mr. Eagles, is that broadcast time, or the time leaks emerge?

    I was bloody annoyed when the BBC gerrymandered their own sodding rules to help out Tom Chambers. I was on for my biggest win on Lisa Snowdon, and could've laid easily to be nicely green on Rachel Stevens too. Stupid BBC. I still finished ahead, but by a far smaller margin.
  • Mr. Eagles, is that broadcast time, or the time leaks emerge?

    I was bloody annoyed when the BBC gerrymandered their own sodding rules to help out Tom Chambers. I was on for my biggest win on Lisa Snowdon, and could've laid easily to be nicely green on Rachel Stevens too. Stupid BBC. I still finished ahead, but by a far smaller margin.

    It's when it is recorded.

    The results show you see on Sunday night is being right now.

    Please don't even get me started on that voting fiasco with Tom Chambers.
  • Mr. Eagles, get *you* started?! It still pisses me off to this day.
  • FrankBoothFrankBooth Posts: 9,928

    The next James Bond has to be Tom Hiddleston

    Interesting. I like Craig though he's a bit of a rough and ready Bond for my tastes. Hiddleston is obviously an up and comer though I'm not sure he'd make a Bond. Seems a bit lanky somehow.
  • Mr. T, a friend of mine (upon hearing I was very loosely using some Cornishness for a certain part of a fantasy land) elsewhere suggested I use the apparently real place name of Ventongimps. Research has also uncovered a village called Mousehole.

    I don't suppose your thriller will be set in Ventongimps? :p
  • AndyJS said:

    The strange death of Tory Sheffield Hallam?

    What has happened is that the seat has become more public sector (there's two big universities in Sheffield, but not in the boundaries of Sheffield Hallam the seat) interestingly one of the Unis is called Sheffield Hallam.

    Ironically, one of the things that will help Nick Clegg in Sheffield Hallam the seat, is his vote on tuition fees, because in the seat there's quite a few university top bods and lecturers.

    And they were enthusiastically in favour of tuition fees going up

    The other side of the coin is the Tories' ability to win seats like Thurrock, Cannock Chase and Sherwood where they used to weigh the Labour vote at the same time as the Tories used to win Hallam easily.
    I made my comment before reading AndyJS saying the same as me.

    IMO the reason why the Conservatives progress in the 'industrial working class' constituencies is less well known than their decline in big cities is the metropolitan media's unwillingness to think outside their comfort zone. Affluent suburban areas are supposed to be naturally Conservative while those that had mines or docks are assumed to be deprived Labour strongholds.

    It should be remembered that the Cameroons were guilty of this attitude as well.
  • Mick_PorkMick_Pork Posts: 6,530
    ABC News ‏@ABC

    Death toll at 8 with 14 seriously injured after police helicopter crashes onto pub in Glasgow, Scotland: http://abcn.ws/IxDbQ8
  • Mr. Eagles, get *you* started?! It still pisses me off to this day.

    We need more education on voting systems to stop mistakes like that happening again.
  • The next James Bond has to be Tom Hiddleston

    Interesting. I like Craig though he's a bit of a rough and ready Bond for my tastes. Hiddleston is obviously an up and comer though I'm not sure he'd make a Bond. Seems a bit lanky somehow.
    He's a fantastic actor, proper aristo (well old Etonian), well spoken, beautiful, brilliant Shakepearean actor, I still can't forget his King Hal in the Hollow Crowns looking forward to seeing his Coriolanus in January.

    Oh and he's magnificent as Loki, in Thor, The Avengers and Thor: The Dark World.

    And he's an awesome dancer

    www.youtube.com/watch?v=Y1NS97_lHi8
  • Yes, I have a humongous man crush on Tom Hiddleston
  • JosiasJessopJosiasJessop Posts: 43,471

    Mr. T, a friend of mine (upon hearing I was very loosely using some Cornishness for a certain part of a fantasy land) elsewhere suggested I use the apparently real place name of Ventongimps. Research has also uncovered a village called Mousehole.

    I don't suppose your thriller will be set in Ventongimps? :p

    An old friend of my dad's lived in Mousehole (pronounced, from memory, something like mouzzul), and we used to go there every couple of years. We turned up one Easter to discover he had died the day before.

    Oh, and for the cartophiles amongst us, the Ordnance Survey sea level datum was set from the nearby Newlyn Harbour.

    There is something about Cornwall that is unutterably beautiful. History and wilderness at what must have seemed the very edge of the world. I love it, even if it is a bit of a swine to walk around.
  • Shock four-country poll reveals widening gulf between Britain and EU

    Poll of France, Germany, Poland and the UK shows British hostile to EU, and other nations hostile to Britain

    http://www.theguardian.com/world/2013/nov/30/shock-poll-reveals-gulf-britain-eu-france-germany-poland-hostile
  • Mr. Eagles, you remind me of the theoretical Sun readers at the end of this clip, letting your trousers do your thinking for you:
    http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=DGscoaUWW2M
  • Opinium found that just 26% of British voters regard the EU as, overall, a "good thing" compared with 42% who say it is a "bad thing". In Poland 62% say it is a good thing and 13% bad; in Germany 55% good and 17% bad, and in France 36% good and 34% bad.

    When asked about the UK's contribution to the EU, there is little enthusiasm among our partners, and little to suggest they will go out of their way to keep us in. Just 9% of Germans and 15% of French people think the UK is a positive influence on the EU, with more Poles, 33%, taking that view.

    Only 16% of Germans and 26% of French people back the idea of a special deal being struck for the UK. Cameron has said he intends to renegotiate the UK terms of entry and hold an in/out referendum if he wins a majority at the next election, offering the new arrangement to the British people in a referendum.

    The idea of Britain leaving the EU does not appear to worry our European partners unduly. Just 24% of French voters said a UK exit would have a negative effect, compared with 36% of Germans and 51% of Poles.
  • maaarshmaaarsh Posts: 3,591

    Shock four-country poll reveals widening gulf between Britain and EU

    Poll of France, Germany, Poland and the UK shows British hostile to EU, and other nations hostile to Britain

    http://www.theguardian.com/world/2013/nov/30/shock-poll-reveals-gulf-britain-eu-france-germany-poland-hostile

    People do tend to hate those who foresee their errors.
  • Mr. Eagles, one wonders how much they'd enjoy seeing billions cut from the EU's budget.
  • Mr Dancer - That's so wrong.

    My trousers never do my thinking for me, as a married man, my thinking is done for me by....
  • NextNext Posts: 826

    Shock four-country poll reveals widening gulf between Britain and EU

    Poll of France, Germany, Poland and the UK shows British hostile to EU, and other nations hostile to Britain

    http://www.theguardian.com/world/2013/nov/30/shock-poll-reveals-gulf-britain-eu-france-germany-poland-hostile

    Poland benefited from joining the EU, compared to their history.

    Germany benefits by effectively running the EU, and control of the Euro.

    France - CAP.

    What does Britain get?
  • AlanbrookeAlanbrooke Posts: 25,514
    Next said:

    Shock four-country poll reveals widening gulf between Britain and EU

    Poll of France, Germany, Poland and the UK shows British hostile to EU, and other nations hostile to Britain

    http://www.theguardian.com/world/2013/nov/30/shock-poll-reveals-gulf-britain-eu-france-germany-poland-hostile

    Poland benefited from joining the EU, compared to their history.

    Germany benefits by effectively running the EU, and control of the Euro.

    France - CAP.

    What does Britain get?
    shafted ?
  • Yes, I have a humongous man crush on Tom Hiddleston

    Doesn't everyone no matter what their orientation? :-)
  • Yes, I have a humongous man crush on Tom Hiddleston

    Doesn't everyone no matter what their orientation? :-)
    This is true, the same applies to Benedict Cumberbatch.
  • If you have access to the SyFy Channel, tonight at 10:50 they are showing one of the truly classic scifi/horror films.

    Strippers vs Werewolves
  • maaarshmaaarsh Posts: 3,591

    Yes, I have a humongous man crush on Tom Hiddleston

    Doesn't everyone no matter what their orientation? :-)
    This is true, the same applies to Benedict Cumberbatch.
    WNPOHIHWOF the smug ****
  • JosiasJessopJosiasJessop Posts: 43,471
    SeanT said:

    Mr. T, a friend of mine (upon hearing I was very loosely using some Cornishness for a certain part of a fantasy land) elsewhere suggested I use the apparently real place name of Ventongimps. Research has also uncovered a village called Mousehole.

    I don't suppose your thriller will be set in Ventongimps? :p

    My editor lives in Mousehole (and Morocco), it is lovely. Ventongimps is, by contrast, rather disappointing.

    Cornish names are splendidly odd.

    This is Come-to-good:

    http://upload.wikimedia.org/wikipedia/commons/f/ff/Come_To_Good_Friends'_Meeting_House,_near_Feock_and_Truro,_Cornwall_-_geograph.org.uk_-_47198.jpg

    It gets the name because it was a Quaker village.

    A random selection of Cornish placenames beginning with B, from Wiki:

    "Bodrigan, Boduel, Bodulgate, Bodwannick, Bodway, Bodwen, Bofarnel, Bohago, Bohetherick, Bohortha, Bojewyan, Bokiddick, Boleigh, Bolenowe, Bolingey, Bolitho, Bolventor, Boquio, Boscadjack, Boscastle, Boscean, Boscoppa, Boscreege, Boskednan, Boskenna, Bosleake, Boslowick, Boslymon, Bosoughan, Bosporthennis, Bossiney, Boswednack..."

    Pure poetry.
    What gets me is that so many places are named after Saints no-one's ever heard of: St Day, St Anthony, St Agnes, St Austell, St Blazey, St Mawgan, St Melor and more.

    I've never been able to find out why the Cornish names so many places after them, although ISTR Pembrokeshire also has its fair share, so perhaps it's a Celtic fringe thing.
  • maaarsh said:

    Yes, I have a humongous man crush on Tom Hiddleston

    Doesn't everyone no matter what their orientation? :-)
    This is true, the same applies to Benedict Cumberbatch.
    WNPOHIHWOF the smug ****
    WNPOHIHWOF?

    Don't say nasty things about Mr Cumberbatch.
  • maaarshmaaarsh Posts: 3,591

    maaarsh said:

    Yes, I have a humongous man crush on Tom Hiddleston

    Doesn't everyone no matter what their orientation? :-)
    This is true, the same applies to Benedict Cumberbatch.
    WNPOHIHWOF the smug ****
    WNPOHIHWOF?

    Don't say nasty things about Mr Cumberbatch.
    The last word is fire.
  • maaarsh said:

    maaarsh said:

    Yes, I have a humongous man crush on Tom Hiddleston

    Doesn't everyone no matter what their orientation? :-)
    This is true, the same applies to Benedict Cumberbatch.
    WNPOHIHWOF the smug ****
    WNPOHIHWOF?

    Don't say nasty things about Mr Cumberbatch.
    The last word is fire.
    Oh my.

    Have you never seen Sherlock?
  • JosiasJessopJosiasJessop Posts: 43,471
    SeanT said:

    Mr. T, a friend of mine (upon hearing I was very loosely using some Cornishness for a certain part of a fantasy land) elsewhere suggested I use the apparently real place name of Ventongimps. Research has also uncovered a village called Mousehole.

    I don't suppose your thriller will be set in Ventongimps? :p

    An old friend of my dad's lived in Mousehole (pronounced, from memory, something like mouzzul), and we used to go there every couple of years. We turned up one Easter to discover he had died the day before.

    Oh, and for the cartophiles amongst us, the Ordnance Survey sea level datum was set from the nearby Newlyn Harbour.

    There is something about Cornwall that is unutterably beautiful. History and wilderness at what must have seemed the very edge of the world. I love it, even if it is a bit of a swine to walk around.
    Have you done a few days on the coastal path? I'm guessing yes? I did Portreath all the way to Cape Cornwall (four days), on a bright, cold, sunny week in early Spring, 1997; the best moment was actually in Zennor, which is where I first saw Comet Hale Bopp - literally poised over the pinnacles of Zennor church, one starry midnight.

    Absolutely spine tingling. Yes, Cornwall is special. There's nowhere like it on God's good green earth.
    I've walked the north Cornish coast twice, and the entire coast of Britain (6,200 miles) ten years ago. I did not take ferries, so I had to walk inland to the nearest crossing point, meaning I visited places like Lostwithiel, Gweek and Truro.

    Although for sheer beauty, Pembrokeshire beats Cornwall utterly. But Pembrokeshire lacks a certain something about the people that Cornwall has (and I don't mean the hideous B&B I stayed in once in Perranporth).
  • JosiasJessopJosiasJessop Posts: 43,471
    SeanT said:

    SeanT said:

    Mr. T, a friend of mine (upon hearing I was very loosely using some Cornishness for a certain part of a fantasy land) elsewhere suggested I use the apparently real place name of Ventongimps. Research has also uncovered a village called Mousehole.

    I don't suppose your thriller will be set in Ventongimps? :p

    My editor lives in Mousehole (and Morocco), it is lovely. Ventongimps is, by contrast, rather disappointing.

    Cornish names are splendidly odd.

    This is Come-to-good:

    http://upload.wikimedia.org/wikipedia/commons/f/ff/Come_To_Good_Friends'_Meeting_House,_near_Feock_and_Truro,_Cornwall_-_geograph.org.uk_-_47198.jpg

    It gets the name because it was a Quaker village.

    A random selection of Cornish placenames beginning with B, from Wiki:

    "Bodrigan, Boduel, Bodulgate, Bodwannick, Bodway, Bodwen, Bofarnel, Bohago, Bohetherick, Bohortha, Bojewyan, Bokiddick, Boleigh, Bolenowe, Bolingey, Bolitho, Bolventor, Boquio, Boscadjack, Boscastle, Boscean, Boscoppa, Boscreege, Boskednan, Boskenna, Bosleake, Boslowick, Boslymon, Bosoughan, Bosporthennis, Bossiney, Boswednack..."

    Pure poetry.
    What gets me is that so many places are named after Saints no-one's ever heard of: St Day, St Anthony, St Agnes, St Austell, St Blazey, St Mawgan, St Melor and more.

    I've never been able to find out why the Cornish names so many places after them, although ISTR Pembrokeshire also has its fair share, so perhaps it's a Celtic fringe thing.
    Yep, it's a Celtic thing: remember the Dark Age Celts were Christian but not Catholic, so they awarded sainthood to, basically, anyone who seemed remotely holy, or maybe anyone who didn't rape his neighbour's daughters while picking his teeth with a dagger.

    So there was a total profusion of early Celtic Christian saints: and they confusingly replicate across Brittany, Wales and Cornwall, with faint but befuddling variations in spelling.
    Thanks.

    Although I've got a feeling we've discussed this before. ;-)
  • CarolaCarola Posts: 1,805
    About 15/20 years ago now a group of us rented some cottages in the wilds around Mousehole for a week over new year. One of our number bedded the girlfriend of a local burly fisherman and afterwards left her at the end of the lane in the early hours to await a taxi. Not very gentlemanly, and in a fit of guilty pique she confessed all to her boyfriend. At the New Year's Eve do he turned up looking for that 'city boy ---' and took him out with one punch, straight into the disco kit, putting it out of commission at about five minutes to midnight.

    My best memory is running across the car park and flinging myself into the back of a taxi as it moved off in a desperate attempt to dodge a bunch of angry revellers. It was like something from Bodie and Doyle.
  • FrankBoothFrankBooth Posts: 9,928
    Next said:

    Shock four-country poll reveals widening gulf between Britain and EU

    Poll of France, Germany, Poland and the UK shows British hostile to EU, and other nations hostile to Britain

    http://www.theguardian.com/world/2013/nov/30/shock-poll-reveals-gulf-britain-eu-france-germany-poland-hostile

    Poland benefited from joining the EU, compared to their history.

    Germany benefits by effectively running the EU, and control of the Euro.

    France - CAP.

    What does Britain get?
    We get to annoy the French. Just think how much better it would be for them if we left.
  • MonksfieldMonksfield Posts: 2,808
    SeanT said:



    Absolutely spine tingling. Yes, Cornwall is special. There's nowhere like it on God's good green earth.

    Indeed. Lets hope George doesn't let too many of his homebuilding chums loose on the place. And yes to the SW Coastal Path.
  • TGOHFTGOHF Posts: 21,633
    Carola said:
    Yuck - more fiddling around. Just scrap some green targets and hence cut bills.
  • SeanT said:


    Another recommendation near St Ives: Botallack tin mine. It is right on the cliffs, and the tunnels underground stretch out under the sea for a mile: in the 19th century the miners had to climb down ladders for an hour then walk, hunched, for another hour, beneath the booming sea, to reach the seams of tin. Incredible. Horrific. They died in their 30s on average.

    Botallack engine house:
    .
    http://s0.geograph.org.uk/photos/01/12/011283_e20936a9.jpg

    The wife's family were from St Just and some were miners 100 or so years ago at Botallack. Scary place, rather them than me.

  • Rick Muir ‏@rickmuir1 2h

    RT @LewisCoyne: There are 73 Labour, 9 LDs and 7 "others" on liverpool council

    pic.twitter.com/CGjlCXPPt8 < absolute classic focus bar chart
  • Carola said:

    About 15/20 years ago now a group of us rented some cottages in the wilds around Mousehole for a week over new year. One of our number bedded the girlfriend of a local burly fisherman and afterwards left her at the end of the lane in the early hours to await a taxi. Not very gentlemanly, and in a fit of guilty pique she confessed all to her boyfriend. At the New Year's Eve do he turned up looking for that 'city boy ---' and took him out with one punch, straight into the disco kit, putting it out of commission at about five minutes to midnight.

    My best memory is running across the car park and flinging myself into the back of a taxi as it moved off in a desperate attempt to dodge a bunch of angry revellers. It was like something from Bodie and Doyle.

    That sounds like the opening from Tom Knox 5 minus a few burning cats.
  • anothernickanothernick Posts: 3,591

    Opinium found that just 26% of British voters regard the EU as, overall, a "good thing" compared with 42% who say it is a "bad thing". In Poland 62% say it is a good thing and 13% bad; in Germany 55% good and 17% bad, and in France 36% good and 34% bad.

    When asked about the UK's contribution to the EU, there is little enthusiasm among our partners, and little to suggest they will go out of their way to keep us in. Just 9% of Germans and 15% of French people think the UK is a positive influence on the EU, with more Poles, 33%, taking that view.

    Cameron's renegotiation strategy looks doomed - the other EU countries will tell him to get stuffed. He'll have to recommend staying in with an even smaller fig leaf of concessions than Harold Wilson got in 1975.
  • Sunil_PrasannanSunil_Prasannan Posts: 52,133
    edited November 2013
    SeanT said:

    Thanks to Dr Spyn for the good wishes - will watch out for the holy water...



    Good to hear he's feeling confident and on the mend (I generally find the former really helps with the latter).

    I don't know if you'll get the chance, but it's worth a little walk west, either along the clifftop or inland paths. I love that area passionately. Too many people spend their time in the town, Tate, harbour, and Hayle areas (although they are lovely).

    Then again, I love rough terrain more than sandy beaches. ;-)

    As a matter of interest, how did you find the train journey?

    Many thanks, JJ. No visits allowed in the morning so I have the time free, will try to explore. The train was fine if tedious (over 5 hours) - I've always found Great Western pretty good. For a journey of that length not having wifi is a big mnus point for me, but I expect I'm in the minority on that route - everyone else seemed to be families.

    The lack of wifi on British trains is pitiful. Great Western don't even have wifi in First Class. Dreadful.

    Hmmm... Virgin Trains have Wifi in steerage standard class.
  • MonksfieldMonksfield Posts: 2,808



    Ironically, one of the things that will help Nick Clegg in Sheffield Hallam the seat, is his vote on tuition fees, because in the seat there's quite a few university top bods and lecturers.

    And they were enthusiastically in favour of tuition fees going up

    When the whole student fees issue blew up I was convinced the money would go straight into pro vice chancellor, administrator and professor salaries. The whole because we're worth it thing. Shame for the poor sods who are having to pay for them though.
  • TGOHFTGOHF Posts: 21,633

    Opinium found that just 26% of British voters regard the EU as, overall, a "good thing" compared with 42% who say it is a "bad thing". In Poland 62% say it is a good thing and 13% bad; in Germany 55% good and 17% bad, and in France 36% good and 34% bad.

    When asked about the UK's contribution to the EU, there is little enthusiasm among our partners, and little to suggest they will go out of their way to keep us in. Just 9% of Germans and 15% of French people think the UK is a positive influence on the EU, with more Poles, 33%, taking that view.

    Cameron's renegotiation strategy looks doomed - the other EU countries will tell him to get stuffed. He'll have to recommend staying in with an even smaller fig leaf of concessions than Harold Wilson got in 1975.
    He's going to try tho - which if he fails give all sceptics cover for a straight in/out push after 2015 if Labout get in.
  • Opinium found that just 26% of British voters regard the EU as, overall, a "good thing" compared with 42% who say it is a "bad thing". In Poland 62% say it is a good thing and 13% bad; in Germany 55% good and 17% bad, and in France 36% good and 34% bad.

    When asked about the UK's contribution to the EU, there is little enthusiasm among our partners, and little to suggest they will go out of their way to keep us in. Just 9% of Germans and 15% of French people think the UK is a positive influence on the EU, with more Poles, 33%, taking that view.

    Cameron's renegotiation strategy looks doomed - the other EU countries will tell him to get stuffed. He'll have to recommend staying in with an even smaller fig leaf of concessions than Harold Wilson got in 1975.
    Cameron's 'renegotiation' strategy was nothing to do with actual renegotiation and every thing to do with pretending he would renegotiate at some hypothetical time after the next general election.
  • Opinium found that just 26% of British voters regard the EU as, overall, a "good thing" compared with 42% who say it is a "bad thing". In Poland 62% say it is a good thing and 13% bad; in Germany 55% good and 17% bad, and in France 36% good and 34% bad.

    When asked about the UK's contribution to the EU, there is little enthusiasm among our partners, and little to suggest they will go out of their way to keep us in. Just 9% of Germans and 15% of French people think the UK is a positive influence on the EU, with more Poles, 33%, taking that view.

    Cameron's renegotiation strategy looks doomed - the other EU countries will tell him to get stuffed. He'll have to recommend staying in with an even smaller fig leaf of concessions than Harold Wilson got in 1975.
    That depends what he asks for. His move on immigration gained rapid traction. He needs to focus on states rights rather than British opt-outs.
  • surbitonsurbiton Posts: 13,549
    Great news for Ed Miliband. Dan Hodges suck your brain out !

    Falkirk 4 - Cowdenbeath 0.

    Fitalass and Carlotta have to work harder !


  • JosiasJessopJosiasJessop Posts: 43,471
    SeanT said:

    SeanT said:

    Mr. T, a friend of mine (upon hearing I was very loosely using some Cornishness for a certain part of a fantasy land) elsewhere suggested I use the apparently real place name of Ventongimps. Research has also uncovered a village called Mousehole.

    I don't suppose your thriller will be set in Ventongimps? :p

    An old friend of my dad's lived in Mousehole (pronounced, from memory, something like mouzzul), and we used to go there every couple of years. We turned up one Easter to discover he had died the day before.

    Oh, and for the cartophiles amongst us, the Ordnance Survey sea level datum was set from the nearby Newlyn Harbour.

    There is something about Cornwall that is unutterably beautiful. History and wilderness at what must have seemed the very edge of the world. I love it, even if it is a bit of a swine to walk around.
    Have you done a few days on the coastal path? I'm guessing yes? I did Portreath all the way to Cape Cornwall (four days), on a bright, cold, sunny week in early Spring, 1997; the best moment was actually in Zennor, which is where I first saw Comet Hale Bopp - literally poised over the pinnacles of Zennor church, one starry midnight.

    Absolutely spine tingling. Yes, Cornwall is special. There's nowhere like it on God's good green earth.
    I've walked the north Cornish coast twice, and the entire coast of Britain (6,200 miles) ten years ago. I did not take ferries, so I had to walk inland to the nearest crossing point, meaning I visited places like Lostwithiel, Gweek and Truro.

    Although for sheer beauty, Pembrokeshire beats Cornwall utterly. But Pembrokeshire lacks a certain something about the people that Cornwall has (and I don't mean the hideous B&B I stayed in once in Perranporth).
    Wales prettier than Cornwall??? Please! As if!?! I'd say that, on a sunny day, somewhere like the Helford river in Cornwall is not just, perhaps, the prettiest place in Britain, but amongst the most delicately beautiful places on earth:

    http://lowres-picturecabinet.com.s3-eu-west-1.amazonaws.com/115/main/9/352980.jpg

    However, respect to someone who has walked the ENTIRE COAST of BRITAIN?!

    Kudos.
    Thanks. I'd love to do it again, but Mrs J doesn't want me disappearing for a year, ;-)

    I'll give you the sublime Helford River (except isn't that village owned by grockles now?), but if you have never been to Pembrokeshire, go and visit.

    For instance:
    The Green Bridge of Wales
    http://apembrokeshireholidaycottage.co.uk/default.asp?PID=193&LCatID=5
    Near which is a perfect little chapel nestled in the cliffs
    http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/St_Govan

    Oh, and if you see a bald head bobbing up and down in the grass just off a clifftop path, don't go and say hello, as I did. Because it was another part of the anatomy bobbing up and down. I'm not sure who was most surprised: me or the couple ...
  • surbitonsurbiton Posts: 13,549
    The team which Moyes' made is now 4th in the Premiership !!
  • anothernickanothernick Posts: 3,591

    Opinium found that just 26% of British voters regard the EU as, overall, a "good thing" compared with 42% who say it is a "bad thing". In Poland 62% say it is a good thing and 13% bad; in Germany 55% good and 17% bad, and in France 36% good and 34% bad.

    When asked about the UK's contribution to the EU, there is little enthusiasm among our partners, and little to suggest they will go out of their way to keep us in. Just 9% of Germans and 15% of French people think the UK is a positive influence on the EU, with more Poles, 33%, taking that view.

    Cameron's renegotiation strategy looks doomed - the other EU countries will tell him to get stuffed. He'll have to recommend staying in with an even smaller fig leaf of concessions than Harold Wilson got in 1975.
    Cameron's 'renegotiation' strategy was nothing to do with actual renegotiation and every thing to do with pretending he would renegotiate at some hypothetical time after the next general election.
    Indeed. It's yet another example of Cameron adopting a policy position that he does not really believe in and could not deliver.
  • surbitonsurbiton Posts: 13,549

    SeanT said:

    Thanks to Dr Spyn for the good wishes - will watch out for the holy water...



    Good to hear he's feeling confident and on the mend (I generally find the former really helps with the latter).

    I don't know if you'll get the chance, but it's worth a little walk west, either along the clifftop or inland paths. I love that area passionately. Too many people spend their time in the town, Tate, harbour, and Hayle areas (although they are lovely).

    Then again, I love rough terrain more than sandy beaches. ;-)

    As a matter of interest, how did you find the train journey?

    Many thanks, JJ. No visits allowed in the morning so I have the time free, will try to explore. The train was fine if tedious (over 5 hours) - I've always found Great Western pretty good. For a journey of that length not having wifi is a big mnus point for me, but I expect I'm in the minority on that route - everyone else seemed to be families.

    The lack of wifi on British trains is pitiful. Great Western don't even have wifi in First Class. Dreadful.

    Hmmm... Virgin Trains have Wifi in steerage standard class.
    The only train jouney I take once a year is from Edinburgh to Newcastle/York/Darligton/Wakefield. It must be gReat Eastern. It has wi-fi in standard.
  • SeanT said:

    SeanT said:

    Mr. T, a friend of mine (upon hearing I was very loosely using some Cornishness for a certain part of a fantasy land) elsewhere suggested I use the apparently real place name of Ventongimps. Research has also uncovered a village called Mousehole.

    I don't suppose your thriller will be set in Ventongimps? :p

    An old friend of my dad's lived in Mousehole (pronounced, from memory, something like mouzzul), and we used to go there every couple of years. We turned up one Easter to discover he had died the day before.

    Oh, and for the cartophiles amongst us, the Ordnance Survey sea level datum was set from the nearby Newlyn Harbour.

    There is something about Cornwall that is unutterably beautiful. History and wilderness at what must have seemed the very edge of the world. I love it, even if it is a bit of a swine to walk around.
    Have you done a few days on the coastal path? I'm guessing yes? I did Portreath all the way to Cape Cornwall (four days), on a bright, cold, sunny week in early Spring, 1997; the best moment was actually in Zennor, which is where I first saw Comet Hale Bopp - literally poised over the pinnacles of Zennor church, one starry midnight.

    Absolutely spine tingling. Yes, Cornwall is special. There's nowhere like it on God's good green earth.
    I've walked the north Cornish coast twice, and the entire coast of Britain (6,200 miles) ten years ago. I did not take ferries, so I had to walk inland to the nearest crossing point, meaning I visited places like Lostwithiel, Gweek and Truro.

    Although for sheer beauty, Pembrokeshire beats Cornwall utterly. But Pembrokeshire lacks a certain something about the people that Cornwall has (and I don't mean the hideous B&B I stayed in once in Perranporth).
    Wales prettier than Cornwall??? Please! As if!?! I'd say that, on a sunny day, somewhere like the Helford river in Cornwall is not just, perhaps, the prettiest place in Britain, but amongst the most delicately beautiful places on earth:

    As a Pembrokeshire resident and one who has family connections in West Cornwall, I was pleased that someone agrees with me that Pembs has a unique beauty, possible unmatched in the British isles. You comments re the people were interesting. Pembs has many characters but the Cornwall natives do seem to have a special something about them.
  • TykejohnnoTykejohnno Posts: 7,362

    James Tapsfield @JamesTapsfield

    EDF welcomes gov move on energy levies, says "does not anticipate" that it will increase prices again in 2014

    No gimmicks George.
  • TGOHFTGOHF Posts: 21,633


    James Tapsfield @JamesTapsfield

    EDF welcomes gov move on energy levies, says "does not anticipate" that it will increase prices again in 2014

    No gimmicks George.

    No cut then ? Pish.
  • CharlesCharles Posts: 35,758
    SeanT said:


    Wales prettier than Cornwall??? Please! As if!?! I'd say that, on a sunny day, somewhere like the Helford river in Cornwall is not just, perhaps, the prettiest place in Britain, but amongst the most delicately beautiful places on earth:

    http://lowres-picturecabinet.com.s3-eu-west-1.amazonaws.com/115/main/9/352980.jpg

    However, respect to someone who has walked the ENTIRE COAST of BRITAIN?!

    Kudos.

    My 9th cousin has a very pretty weekend place down in Devon.

    http://www.dawlishcommunitytrust.org.uk/gallery/item.asp?ref=020510Luscommainfrt

    It's a little OTT for my taste, be to each their own I suppose.
  • surbiton said:

    SeanT said:

    Thanks to Dr Spyn for the good wishes - will watch out for the holy water...



    Good to hear he's feeling confident and on the mend (I generally find the former really helps with the latter).

    I don't know if you'll get the chance, but it's worth a little walk west, either along the clifftop or inland paths. I love that area passionately. Too many people spend their time in the town, Tate, harbour, and Hayle areas (although they are lovely).

    Then again, I love rough terrain more than sandy beaches. ;-)

    As a matter of interest, how did you find the train journey?

    Many thanks, JJ. No visits allowed in the morning so I have the time free, will try to explore. The train was fine if tedious (over 5 hours) - I've always found Great Western pretty good. For a journey of that length not having wifi is a big mnus point for me, but I expect I'm in the minority on that route - everyone else seemed to be families.

    The lack of wifi on British trains is pitiful. Great Western don't even have wifi in First Class. Dreadful.

    Hmmm... Virgin Trains have Wifi in steerage standard class.
    The only train jouney I take once a year is from Edinburgh to Newcastle/York/Darligton/Wakefield. It must be gReat Eastern. It has wi-fi in standard.
    That would be East Coast.
  • TykejohnnoTykejohnno Posts: 7,362
    TGOHF said:


    James Tapsfield @JamesTapsfield

    EDF welcomes gov move on energy levies, says "does not anticipate" that it will increase prices again in 2014

    No gimmicks George.

    No cut then ? Pish.
    No cut and no guarantee for 2015,election year ?
  • anothernickanothernick Posts: 3,591
    SeanT said:

    Opinium found that just 26% of British voters regard the EU as, overall, a "good thing" compared with 42% who say it is a "bad thing". In Poland 62% say it is a good thing and 13% bad; in Germany 55% good and 17% bad, and in France 36% good and 34% bad.

    When asked about the UK's contribution to the EU, there is little enthusiasm among our partners, and little to suggest they will go out of their way to keep us in. Just 9% of Germans and 15% of French people think the UK is a positive influence on the EU, with more Poles, 33%, taking that view.

    Cameron's renegotiation strategy looks doomed - the other EU countries will tell him to get stuffed. He'll have to recommend staying in with an even smaller fig leaf of concessions than Harold Wilson got in 1975.
    Cameron's 'renegotiation' strategy was nothing to do with actual renegotiation and every thing to do with pretending he would renegotiate at some hypothetical time after the next general election.
    Yes. His renegotiation will achieve zero (though he is unlikely to be PM in 2017 anyway).

    The irony is that it will probably be a europhile Labour PM. e.g. Ed Miliband, who takes Britain close to the EU exit after the next Treaty (though they will disguise Brexit as a new form of peripheral "associate membership").
    SeanT said:

    Opinium found that just 26% of British voters regard the EU as, overall, a "good thing" compared with 42% who say it is a "bad thing". In Poland 62% say it is a good thing and 13% bad; in Germany 55% good and 17% bad, and in France 36% good and 34% bad.

    When asked about the UK's contribution to the EU, there is little enthusiasm among our partners, and little to suggest they will go out of their way to keep us in. Just 9% of Germans and 15% of French people think the UK is a positive influence on the EU, with more Poles, 33%, taking that view.

    Cameron's renegotiation strategy looks doomed - the other EU countries will tell him to get stuffed. He'll have to recommend staying in with an even smaller fig leaf of concessions than Harold Wilson got in 1975.
    Cameron's 'renegotiation' strategy was nothing to do with actual renegotiation and every thing to do with pretending he would renegotiate at some hypothetical time after the next general election.
    Yes. His renegotiation will achieve zero (though he is unlikely to be PM in 2017 anyway).

    The irony is that it will probably be a europhile Labour PM. e.g. Ed Miliband, who takes Britain close to the EU exit after the next Treaty (though they will disguise Brexit as a new form of peripheral "associate membership").
    I very much doubt that there will be a new EU treaty in the forseeable future. Certainly not before 2020. None of the major countries want one. They will find other ways.

  • eekeek Posts: 28,591
    surbiton said:



    The only train jouney I take once a year is from Edinburgh to Newcastle/York/Darligton/Wakefield. It must be gReat Eastern. It has wi-fi in standard.

    Given that the technology to allow wifi to work on trains was created in Newcastle that is hardly surprising.

    I discovered the company took over the offices of my failed software company on the Quayside...
  • NickPalmerNickPalmer Posts: 21,568

    Opinium found that just 26% of British voters regard the EU as, overall, a "good thing" compared with 42% who say it is a "bad thing". In Poland 62% say it is a good thing and 13% bad; in Germany 55% good and 17% bad, and in France 36% good and 34% bad.

    When asked about the UK's contribution to the EU, there is little enthusiasm among our partners, and little to suggest they will go out of their way to keep us in. Just 9% of Germans and 15% of French people think the UK is a positive influence on the EU, with more Poles, 33%, taking that view.

    Only 16% of Germans and 26% of French people back the idea of a special deal being struck for the UK. Cameron has said he intends to renegotiate the UK terms of entry and hold an in/out referendum if he wins a majority at the next election, offering the new arrangement to the British people in a referendum.

    The idea of Britain leaving the EU does not appear to worry our European partners unduly. Just 24% of French voters said a UK exit would have a negative effect, compared with 36% of Germans and 51% of Poles.

    I was reporting this here last year, when Richard N and others were insisting that the EU would be ready to make major concessions to keep us on board. They're bored with Cameron's poses and flounces. We want to stay? Fine. We want to leave? OK. We want massive changes as a condition for staying? Forget it.

  • surbiton said:

    SeanT said:

    Thanks to Dr Spyn for the good wishes - will watch out for the holy water...



    Good to hear he's feeling confident and on the mend (I generally find the former really helps with the latter).

    I don't know if you'll get the chance, but it's worth a little walk west, either along the clifftop or inland paths. I love that area passionately. Too many people spend their time in the town, Tate, harbour, and Hayle areas (although they are lovely).

    Then again, I love rough terrain more than sandy beaches. ;-)

    As a matter of interest, how did you find the train journey?

    Many thanks, JJ. No visits allowed in the morning so I have the time free, will try to explore. The train was fine if tedious (over 5 hours) - I've always found Great Western pretty good. For a journey of that length not having wifi is a big mnus point for me, but I expect I'm in the minority on that route - everyone else seemed to be families.

    The lack of wifi on British trains is pitiful. Great Western don't even have wifi in First Class. Dreadful.

    Hmmm... Virgin Trains have Wifi in steerage standard class.
    The only train jouney I take once a year is from Edinburgh to Newcastle/York/Darligton/Wakefield. It must be gReat Eastern. It has wi-fi in standard.
    That would be East Coast.
    And doesn't the line split at Doncaster with Wakefield on the Leeds branch.
  • smithersjones2013smithersjones2013 Posts: 740
    edited November 2013
    These are, in order of likelihood, South Thanet, Boston & Skegness and Castle Point.

    AndyJS said:

    If UKIP get 19% nationally they would almost certainly pick up a couple of seats, probably Boston and Thanet South.

    Nobody knows what the impact would be of UKIP getting 19% at the GE. If they did they would almost certainly be in double figures in terms of seats. Uniform swing models are more or less worthless at the best of times, even more so in a situation when one party increases its support by a factor of more than 6.

    In reality, of course, UKIP will get less than half that figure, and will be lucky to win 1 seat. There are 3 seats where UKIP have an outside chance (less than 25% chance in each, but on a good night could win any or all of them). These are, in order of likelihood, South Thanet, Boston & Skegness and Castle Point.
    Whilst South Thanet and Boston / Skeggy are good choices I'm not convinced about Castlepoint as it only was marginally 'won' in the County Council elections by UKIP. More interesting I would think are North Thanet (where the results were not far behind South Thanet), Sheppey & Sittingbourne and Bognor Regis & Littlehampton. That said given the number of marginals along the South East coast and the strength of UKIP support in that region I wouldn't consider any coastal constituency safe from UKIP.

    http://survation.com/2013/05/ukip-won-in-8-westminster-constituencies-last-thursday/

    Sandys might have been the first to jump but she may not be the last. For example Roger Gale next door in North Thanet will have been MP for 41 years and will be 72 in 2015. Will 2015 be the right time for him to retire?

    Interesting to see the Opinium poll and its increase for UKIP. Perhaps all the current UKIP campaigning activity (the campaigning that Soubry spat her false teeth out about on Question Time) is having an effect?

  • JonathanDJonathanD Posts: 2,400
    surbiton said:

    Great news for Ed Miliband. Dan Hodges suck your brain out !

    Falkirk 4 - Cowdenbeath 0.

    Fitalass and Carlotta have to work harder !



    Surbiton, why are you posting last weeks football score? We were beat 2-0 by SevCo 5088 today in the Cup :-(
  • GeoffMGeoffM Posts: 6,071

    Opinium found that just 26% of British voters regard the EU as, overall, a "good thing" compared with 42% who say it is a "bad thing". In Poland 62% say it is a good thing and 13% bad; in Germany 55% good and 17% bad, and in France 36% good and 34% bad.

    When asked about the UK's contribution to the EU, there is little enthusiasm among our partners, and little to suggest they will go out of their way to keep us in. Just 9% of Germans and 15% of French people think the UK is a positive influence on the EU, with more Poles, 33%, taking that view.

    Only 16% of Germans and 26% of French people back the idea of a special deal being struck for the UK. Cameron has said he intends to renegotiate the UK terms of entry and hold an in/out referendum if he wins a majority at the next election, offering the new arrangement to the British people in a referendum.

    The idea of Britain leaving the EU does not appear to worry our European partners unduly. Just 24% of French voters said a UK exit would have a negative effect, compared with 36% of Germans and 51% of Poles.

    I was reporting this here last year, when Richard N and others were insisting that the EU would be ready to make major concessions to keep us on board. They're bored with Cameron's poses and flounces. We want to stay? Fine. We want to leave? OK. We want massive changes as a condition for staying? Forget it.

    Perfect. I really hope they don't give any ground. Cameron tries to be reasonable, EU refuses to compromise, we leave. Sounds like a winning formula.

  • Charles said:

    SeanT said:


    Wales prettier than Cornwall??? Please! As if!?! I'd say that, on a sunny day, somewhere like the Helford river in Cornwall is not just, perhaps, the prettiest place in Britain, but amongst the most delicately beautiful places on earth:

    http://lowres-picturecabinet.com.s3-eu-west-1.amazonaws.com/115/main/9/352980.jpg

    However, respect to someone who has walked the ENTIRE COAST of BRITAIN?!

    Kudos.

    My 9th cousin has a very pretty weekend place down in Devon.

    http://www.dawlishcommunitytrust.org.uk/gallery/item.asp?ref=020510Luscommainfrt

    It's a little OTT for my taste, be to each their own I suppose.
    I think that comment is set for tim's scrapbook.

    Wouldn't your ninth cousin have diverged from your line in approximately 1750 ?

    And do you have cousins of even more distant degree ?
  • GeoffM said:

    Opinium found that just 26% of British voters regard the EU as, overall, a "good thing" compared with 42% who say it is a "bad thing". In Poland 62% say it is a good thing and 13% bad; in Germany 55% good and 17% bad, and in France 36% good and 34% bad.

    When asked about the UK's contribution to the EU, there is little enthusiasm among our partners, and little to suggest they will go out of their way to keep us in. Just 9% of Germans and 15% of French people think the UK is a positive influence on the EU, with more Poles, 33%, taking that view.

    Only 16% of Germans and 26% of French people back the idea of a special deal being struck for the UK. Cameron has said he intends to renegotiate the UK terms of entry and hold an in/out referendum if he wins a majority at the next election, offering the new arrangement to the British people in a referendum.

    The idea of Britain leaving the EU does not appear to worry our European partners unduly. Just 24% of French voters said a UK exit would have a negative effect, compared with 36% of Germans and 51% of Poles.

    I was reporting this here last year, when Richard N and others were insisting that the EU would be ready to make major concessions to keep us on board. They're bored with Cameron's poses and flounces. We want to stay? Fine. We want to leave? OK. We want massive changes as a condition for staying? Forget it.

    Perfect. I really hope they don't give any ground. Cameron tries to be reasonable, EU refuses to compromise, we leave. Sounds like a winning formula.

    There's no way that Cameron would take Britain out of the EU.

    And he'd be willing to wreck the Conservative party if that's the cost of staying in.

  • HYUFDHYUFD Posts: 123,916
    Washington Free Beacon Virginia 2016

    •44% Chris Christie
    •42% Hillary Clinton
    •15% Undecided/Do Not Know

    •51% Hillary Clinton
    •41% Ted Cruz
    •9% Undecided/Do Not Know

    •50% Hillary Clinton
    •43% Rand Paul
    •7% Undecided/Do Not Know

    •42% Mark Warner
    •41% Chris Christie
    •17% Undecided/Do Not Know

    •52% Mark Warner
    •37% Ted Cruz
    •11% Undecided/Do Not Know

    •53% Mark Warner
    •39% Rand Paul
    •8% Undecided/Do Not Know
  • PongPong Posts: 4,693
    edited November 2013
    "Will UKIP outpoll the Lib Dems at the 2015 General Election"

    Dunno. The odds look about right to me, this far out. A bit of value on the UKIP side maybe?

    BTW, this is an extraordinary story;

    "A mother was given a caesarean section while unconscious - then social services put her baby into care."

    http://www.telegraph.co.uk/comment/columnists/christopherbooker/10485281/Operate-on-this-mother-so-that-we-can-take-her-baby.html
  • Opinium Research ‏@OpiniumResearch 40s

    50% would vote to leave EU if referendum was tomorrow. 36% would vote stay, rest undecided. #EUinorout

    http://bit.ly/1gsoGbF
  • EasterrossEasterross Posts: 1,915

    Charles said:

    SeanT said:


    Wales prettier than Cornwall??? Please! As if!?! I'd say that, on a sunny day, somewhere like the Helford river in Cornwall is not just, perhaps, the prettiest place in Britain, but amongst the most delicately beautiful places on earth:

    http://lowres-picturecabinet.com.s3-eu-west-1.amazonaws.com/115/main/9/352980.jpg

    However, respect to someone who has walked the ENTIRE COAST of BRITAIN?!

    Kudos.

    My 9th cousin has a very pretty weekend place down in Devon.

    http://www.dawlishcommunitytrust.org.uk/gallery/item.asp?ref=020510Luscommainfrt

    It's a little OTT for my taste, be to each their own I suppose.
    I think that comment is set for tim's scrapbook.

    Wouldn't your ninth cousin have diverged from your line in approximately 1750 ?

    And do you have cousins of even more distant degree ?
    9th cousins can vary anywhere between 1550 and 1750 depending on how wide the generations are. It is quite good fun working out 20+th cousins.
  • SeanT said:



    Here we disagree. I believe the eurozone's problems are absolutely fundamental: they cannot have a common and functioning currency without proper fiscal (and hence political) union. This is unfudgeable, and the continuing stagnation in the PIIGS just makes the point more emphatic.

    Either the euro breaks up or they go for full-on union. That is their stark and binary choice. As so many of them seem utterly committed to the euro they will have to go for proper union. And no amount of eurowhitewash can mask THAT as a tidying-up exercise: they will require a new Treaty.

    Will it happen before 2020? That is the question. It's certainly possible. It depends how bad things get in France.

    I think you are forgetting Article 352 of the Lisbon Treaty. A veritable enabling clause if ever there was one:

    1. If action by the Union should prove necessary, within the framework of the policies defined in the Treaties, to attain one of the objectives set out in the Treaties, and the Treaties have not provided the necessary powers, the Council, acting unanimously on a proposal from the Commission and after obtaining the consent of the European Parliament, shall adopt the appropriate measures. Where the measures in question are adopted by the Council in accordance with a special legislative procedure, it shall also act unanimously on a proposal from the Commission and after obtaining the consent of the European Parliament.

    http://www.lisbon-treaty.org/wcm/the-lisbon-treaty/treaty-on-the-functioning-of-the-european-union-and-comments/part-7-general-and-final-provisions/595-article-352.html

    It wouldn't surprise me at all if Brussels tried to shoehorn the changes through the enabling clause avoiding any new treaty........
  • SeanT said:

    Here we disagree. I believe the eurozone's problems are absolutely fundamental: they cannot have a common and functioning currency without proper fiscal (and hence political) union. This is unfudgeable, and the continuing stagnation in the PIIGS just makes the point more emphatic.

    Either the euro breaks up or they go for full-on union. That is their stark and binary choice. As so many of them seem utterly committed to the euro they will have to go for proper union. And no amount of eurowhitewash can mask THAT as a tidying-up exercise: they will require a new Treaty.

    Will it happen before 2020? That is the question. It's certainly possible. It depends how bad things get in France.

    The European Union (Referendum) Bill was passed by the Commons yesterday. Its chances of reaching the statute book in this Session must now be close to evens. If, and it's a big if, that happens, there will be (an admittedly woefully drafted and insubstantial) law requiring the holding of an In/Out referendum between 31 December 2016 and 31 December 2017. Once on the books, I find it difficult to see how any government would be prepared to repeal the basic principle, although it would forced to pass further legislation in order to allow for a proper referendum. Cameron may well end up leaving somewhat of a poisoned chalice to his successor.
  • Public revolt over HS2

    Telegraph/ICM survey finds just 3 per cent of voters believe the £50 billion high-speed link will be delivered on time and on budget.

    http://www.telegraph.co.uk/news/uknews/road-and-rail-transport/10486462/Public-revolt-over-HS2.html
  • anothernickanothernick Posts: 3,591
    GeoffM said:

    Opinium found that just 26% of British voters regard the EU as, overall, a "good thing" compared with 42% who say it is a "bad thing". In Poland 62% say it is a good thing and 13% bad; in Germany 55% good and 17% bad, and in France 36% good and 34% bad.

    When asked about the UK's contribution to the EU, there is little enthusiasm among our partners, and little to suggest they will go out of their way to keep us in. Just 9% of Germans and 15% of French people think the UK is a positive influence on the EU, with more Poles, 33%, taking that view.

    Only 16% of Germans and 26% of French people back the idea of a special deal being struck for the UK. Cameron has said he intends to renegotiate the UK terms of entry and hold an in/out referendum if he wins a majority at the next election, offering the new arrangement to the British people in a referendum.

    The idea of Britain leaving the EU does not appear to worry our European partners unduly. Just 24% of French voters said a UK exit would have a negative effect, compared with 36% of Germans and 51% of Poles.

    I was reporting this here last year, when Richard N and others were insisting that the EU would be ready to make major concessions to keep us on board. They're bored with Cameron's poses and flounces. We want to stay? Fine. We want to leave? OK. We want massive changes as a condition for staying? Forget it.

    Perfect. I really hope they don't give any ground. Cameron tries to be reasonable, EU refuses to compromise, we leave. Sounds like a winning formula.

    The UK will not leave the EU. The balance of forces is overwhelmingly against such an outcome. In favour of staying in we have

    The Labour Party
    The Liberal Democrats
    The SNP
    Plaid Cymru
    The NI parties, with the exception of Sinn Fein
    The City
    The CBI
    The TUC
    The EEF and most other large employer organisations
    Foreign investors - Nissan, Honda etc etc
    UK companies with significant trade with the EU
    The US government
    Other EU governments
    The Universities
    Most local authorities
    The Guardian, Mirror, FT, Independent
    Quite a number of senior Tories, including John Major, Kenneth Clarke and (we must assume) David Cameron

    In favour of coming out we have

    UKIP
    The majority of the Tory party
    The Sun, Mail, Times & Telegraph
    and, er..........

    Withdrawal is a chimera and will not happen.





  • FloaterFloater Posts: 14,207

    Next said:

    Shock four-country poll reveals widening gulf between Britain and EU

    Poll of France, Germany, Poland and the UK shows British hostile to EU, and other nations hostile to Britain

    http://www.theguardian.com/world/2013/nov/30/shock-poll-reveals-gulf-britain-eu-france-germany-poland-hostile

    Poland benefited from joining the EU, compared to their history.

    Germany benefits by effectively running the EU, and control of the Euro.

    France - CAP.

    What does Britain get?
    shafted ?
    And the last Labour government just bent over and passed on the lube
  • maaarsh said:

    maaarsh said:

    Yes, I have a humongous man crush on Tom Hiddleston

    Doesn't everyone no matter what their orientation? :-)
    This is true, the same applies to Benedict Cumberbatch.
    WNPOHIHWOF the smug ****
    WNPOHIHWOF?

    Don't say nasty things about Mr Cumberbatch.
    The last word is fire.
    WNPOHIHWOF has just got me my first googlewhack. Still haven't guessed what it means.
  • TheScreamingEaglesTheScreamingEagles Posts: 119,963
    edited November 2013

    maaarsh said:

    maaarsh said:

    Yes, I have a humongous man crush on Tom Hiddleston

    Doesn't everyone no matter what their orientation? :-)
    This is true, the same applies to Benedict Cumberbatch.
    WNPOHIHWOF the smug ****
    WNPOHIHWOF?

    Don't say nasty things about Mr Cumberbatch.
    The last word is fire.
    WNPOHIHWOF has just got me my first googlewhack. Still haven't guessed what it means.
    Would Not Piss On Him If He Was On Fire
  • FloaterFloater Posts: 14,207

    SeanT said:

    Thanks to Dr Spyn for the good wishes - will watch out for the holy water...



    Good to hear he's feeling confident and on the mend (I generally find the former really helps with the latter).

    I don't know if you'll get the chance, but it's worth a little walk west, either along the clifftop or inland paths. I love that area passionately. Too many people spend their time in the town, Tate, harbour, and Hayle areas (although they are lovely).

    Then again, I love rough terrain more than sandy beaches. ;-)

    As a matter of interest, how did you find the train journey?

    Many thanks, JJ. No visits allowed in the morning so I have the time free, will try to explore. The train was fine if tedious (over 5 hours) - I've always found Great Western pretty good. For a journey of that length not having wifi is a big mnus point for me, but I expect I'm in the minority on that route - everyone else seemed to be families.

    The lack of wifi on British trains is pitiful. Great Western don't even have wifi in First Class. Dreadful.

    Hmmm... Virgin Trains have Wifi in steerage standard class.
    Greater Anglia have free wifi on the Norwich - Liverpool st line
  • Opinium leader ratings (changes from last time)

    Cameron minus 18 (-3)

    Miliband minus 23 (-1)

    Clegg minus 46 (-2)
  • maaarsh said:

    maaarsh said:

    Yes, I have a humongous man crush on Tom Hiddleston

    Doesn't everyone no matter what their orientation? :-)
    This is true, the same applies to Benedict Cumberbatch.
    WNPOHIHWOF the smug ****
    WNPOHIHWOF?

    Don't say nasty things about Mr Cumberbatch.
    The last word is fire.
    WNPOHIHWOF has just got me my first googlewhack. Still haven't guessed what it means.
    Would Not Piss On Him If He Was On Fire
    Obvious now you spell it out - really surprised that it doesn't score on google, mind.

  • SeanT said:

    To keep the euro long-term, the EU needs proper Federal Union. This is undo-able without a new Treaty. It just depends how long they can avoid this fateful crunch.

    Only if you proceed on the assumption that the European Union obeys its own rules. The response to the bailouts have shown once again how fallacious that assumption is.
  • surbiton said:

    SeanT said:

    Thanks to Dr Spyn for the good wishes - will watch out for the holy water...



    Good to hear he's feeling confident and on the mend (I generally find the former really helps with the latter).

    I don't know if you'll get the chance, but it's worth a little walk west, either along the clifftop or inland paths. I love that area passionately. Too many people spend their time in the town, Tate, harbour, and Hayle areas (although they are lovely).

    Then again, I love rough terrain more than sandy beaches. ;-)

    As a matter of interest, how did you find the train journey?

    Many thanks, JJ. No visits allowed in the morning so I have the time free, will try to explore. The train was fine if tedious (over 5 hours) - I've always found Great Western pretty good. For a journey of that length not having wifi is a big mnus point for me, but I expect I'm in the minority on that route - everyone else seemed to be families.

    The lack of wifi on British trains is pitiful. Great Western don't even have wifi in First Class. Dreadful.

    Hmmm... Virgin Trains have Wifi in steerage standard class.
    The only train jouney I take once a year is from Edinburgh to Newcastle/York/Darligton/Wakefield. It must be gReat Eastern. It has wi-fi in standard.
    That would be East Coast.
    And doesn't the line split at Doncaster with Wakefield on the Leeds branch.
    The Leeds to London (via Doncaster) service is provided by East Coast. Bradford Interchange is served along the same line by Grand Central.
  • SeanT said:

    SeanT said:



    I think you are forgetting Article 352 of the Lisbon Treaty. A veritable enabling clause if ever there was one:

    1. If action by the Union should prove necessary, within the framework of the policies defined in the Treaties, to attain one of the objectives set out in the Treaties, and the Treaties have not provided the necessary powers, the Council, acting unanimously on a proposal from the Commission and after obtaining the consent of the European Parliament, shall adopt the appropriate measures. Where the measures in question are adopted by the Council in accordance with a special legislative procedure, it shall also act unanimously on a proposal from the Commission and after obtaining the consent of the European Parliament.

    http://www.lisbon-treaty.org/wcm/the-lisbon-treaty/treaty-on-the-functioning-of-the-european-union-and-comments/part-7-general-and-final-provisions/595-article-352.html

    It wouldn't surprise me at all if Brussels tried to shoehorn the changes through the enabling clause avoiding any new treaty........

    I don't underestimate the venality and mendacity of the eurocracy; of course - its what they do. However I do not, likewise, underestimate the jealously guarded independence of the German constitution, the Irish constitution, the French Republic, &c. These fiercely independent entities will not submit meekly to their fate, especially if that fate is extinction.

    To keep the euro long-term, the EU needs proper Federal Union. This is undo-able without a new Treaty. It just depends how long they can avoid this fateful crunch.
    I think it is because that independence is so jealously guarded that the only option will be to achieve closer union via the back door. Do not forget it was the French amongst others who sunk the EU constitution . If full federal Union is proposed I believe it will be sunk by a number of nations at which point economic chaos could surround the Euro and sink it once and for all. Brussels won't risk that especially as its in their nature to do things in an underhand manner..

  • HYUFDHYUFD Posts: 123,916
    anothernick You can add the DUP and BNP to those in favour of withdrawal as well as the odd Labour figure like Frank Field, Kate Hoey and Tony Benn
  • maaarsh said:

    maaarsh said:

    Yes, I have a humongous man crush on Tom Hiddleston

    Doesn't everyone no matter what their orientation? :-)
    This is true, the same applies to Benedict Cumberbatch.
    WNPOHIHWOF the smug ****
    WNPOHIHWOF?

    Don't say nasty things about Mr Cumberbatch.
    The last word is fire.
    WNPOHIHWOF has just got me my first googlewhack. Still haven't guessed what it means.
    Would Not Piss On Him If He Was On Fire
    Obvious now you spell it out - really surprised that it doesn't score on google, mind.

    I'd make a cheap gag involving Mark Oaten, but I'm tired.


  • The Labour Party
    The Liberal Democrats
    The SNP
    Plaid Cymru
    The NI parties, with the exception of Sinn Fein
    The City
    The CBI
    The TUC
    The EEF and most other large employer organisations
    Foreign investors - Nissan, Honda etc etc
    UK companies with significant trade with the EU
    The US government
    Other EU governments
    The Universities
    Most local authorities
    The Guardian, Mirror, FT, Independent
    Quite a number of senior Tories, including John Major, Kenneth Clarke and (we must assume) David Cameron

    In favour of coming out we have

    UKIP
    The majority of the Tory party
    The Sun, Mail, Times & Telegraph
    and, er..........

    Withdrawal is a chimera and will not happen.

    Is that the same Nissan, Honda etc etc who we were told would leave Britain if we didn't join the Euro etc etc ?

    And I fear you're overestimating the voteswinging potential of the City (bankers), the CBI (bosses), the TUC (union barons), various foreign governments and various fringe parties. Let alone the local authorities.

    The problem that the YEStoEU establishment has is that people are going to become evermore disgruntled with the establishment and its only at that point when the establishment will be forced to concede a referendum.
  • john_zimsjohn_zims Posts: 3,399
    @anothernick

    'The UK will not leave the EU. The balance of forces is overwhelmingly against such an outcome. In favour of staying in we have'

    Shame, you forgot about voters.
  • I was reporting this here last year, when Richard N and others were insisting that the EU would be ready to make major concessions to keep us on board. They're bored with Cameron's poses and flounces. We want to stay? Fine. We want to leave? OK. We want massive changes as a condition for staying? Forget it.

    What a strange post in response to a summary of an opinion poll. You seem to be making the massive error of assuming that the concessions obtainable are somehow related to public opinion in other EU states, indeed to public opinion in minor EU states.

    Nick, the EU doesn't work like that. Surely you of all people should know that?
  • HYUFDHYUFD Posts: 123,916
    The EU polls also show a clear NO to withdrawal if Cameron achieves a renegotiation. This decade will probably have 3 key referendums on the constitution, on electoral reform and AV, the Union and Scottish independence, and EU membership, in political terms it is the biggest decade for determining our nation's future direction since WW2. Personally, as with AV, I expect no change in any of the referendums, although I think the EU referendum will be the tightest with just a few points in it
  • SeanT said:

    SeanT said:



    Here we disagree. I believe the eurozone's problems are absolutely fundamental: they cannot have a common and functioning currency without proper fiscal (and hence political) union. This is unfudgeable, and the continuing stagnation in the PIIGS just makes the point more emphatic.

    Either the euro breaks up or they go for full-on union. That is their stark and binary choice. As so many of them seem utterly committed to the euro they will have to go for proper union. And no amount of eurowhitewash can mask THAT as a tidying-up exercise: they will require a new Treaty.

    Will it happen before 2020? That is the question. It's certainly possible. It depends how bad things get in France.

    I think you are forgetting Article 352 of the Lisbon Treaty. A veritable enabling clause if ever there was one:

    1. If action by the Union should prove necessary, within the framework of the policies defined in the Treaties, to attain one of the objectives set out in the Treaties, and the Treaties have not provided the necessary powers, the Council, acting unanimously on a proposal from the Commission and after obtaining the consent of the European Parliament, shall adopt the appropriate measures. Where the measures in question are adopted by the Council in accordance with a special legislative procedure, it shall also act unanimously on a proposal from the Commission and after obtaining the consent of the European Parliament.

    http://www.lisbon-treaty.org/wcm/the-lisbon-treaty/treaty-on-the-functioning-of-the-european-union-and-comments/part-7-general-and-final-provisions/595-article-352.html

    It wouldn't surprise me at all if Brussels tried to shoehorn the changes through the enabling clause avoiding any new treaty........
    I don't underestimate the venality and mendacity of the eurocracy; of course - its what they do. However I do not, likewise, underestimate the jealously guarded independence of the German constitution, the Irish constitution, the French Republic, &c. These fiercely independent entities will not submit meekly to their fate, especially if that fate is extinction.

    To keep the euro long-term, the EU needs proper Federal Union. This is undo-able without a new Treaty. It just depends how long they can avoid this fateful crunch.
    The Irish and the French perhaps but the German constitutional court has shown itself always willing to obey orders.

    So the only time they're going to block some EU change would be if the German government opposed it and it that case the change wouldn't happen in any case.
  • rcs1000rcs1000 Posts: 57,636
    HYUFD said:

    anothernick You can add the DUP and BNP to those in favour of withdrawal as well as the odd Labour figure like Frank Field, Kate Hoey and Tony Benn

    According to his own website, Frank Field wants to change the EU from the inside:http://www.frankfield.com/latest-news/news.aspx?p=102503
  • antifrank said:

    That depends what he asks for. His move on immigration gained rapid traction. He needs to focus on states rights rather than British opt-outs.

    Which was of course exactly what he did in his January speech. It is indeed a very smart approach; undoing the Blair/Brown damage was always going to be hard, verging on impossible, but that approach is our best hope.
  • CharlesCharles Posts: 35,758
    edited November 2013


    I think that comment is set for tim's scrapbook.

    Wouldn't your ninth cousin have diverged from your line in approximately 1750 ?

    And do you have cousins of even more distant degree ?

    I think it was actually in the 1720s, but near enough. He is the most distant cousin that we regard as close family; the Irish branch that now lives in Islington are (approximately) 20-something cousins but we're not that close to them. And the less said about the Norfolk branch the better.

    edit: just seen Easterross's post. I quite agree!
  • Charles said:


    I think that comment is set for tim's scrapbook.

    Wouldn't your ninth cousin have diverged from your line in approximately 1750 ?

    And do you have cousins of even more distant degree ?

    I think it was actually in the 1720s, but near enough. He is the most distant cousin that we regard as close family; the Irish branch that now lives in Islington are (approximately) 20-something cousins but we're not that close to them. And the less said about the Norfolk branch the better.

    Bit harsh about the Norfolk branch, they'd be very useful at family gatherings.

    They could count the entire branch of your family on the fingers of just one hand....

  • To keep the euro long-term, the EU needs proper Federal Union. This is undo-able without a new Treaty. It just depends how long they can avoid this fateful crunch.
    I think you're underestimating what you can do with institutional mission creep. The US has transformed itself into a huge, centralized military superpower, with a powerful, directly elected president. This was done with a constitution that wasn't supposed to do any of that - much of it was exactly what the constitution was designed to avoid. There have been constitutional amendments in the meantime - the hurdles are much lower than the EU - but they're about minor details, not the big changes.
  • CharlesCharles Posts: 35,758
    edited November 2013

    Charles said:


    I think that comment is set for tim's scrapbook.

    Wouldn't your ninth cousin have diverged from your line in approximately 1750 ?

    And do you have cousins of even more distant degree ?

    I think it was actually in the 1720s, but near enough. He is the most distant cousin that we regard as close family; the Irish branch that now lives in Islington are (approximately) 20-something cousins but we're not that close to them. And the less said about the Norfolk branch the better.

    Bit harsh about the Norfolk branch, they'd be very useful at family gatherings.

    They could count the entire branch of your family on the fingers of just one hand....
    There were 600 or so cousins at the recent 333rd birthday party...

    (The Norfolk branch wrote us a very cheeky letter in 60s suggesting that we change our name because otherwise people might get the two families muddled up. Hah!)

    edit: Classic mistake - my then girlfriend, now wife, was just over from the states. 'My family's throwing a party' I said 'why don't you come down and I'll introduce you to them'.... luckily my dear friend and cousin PMS took her under her wing...
  • AndyJSAndyJS Posts: 29,395
    edited November 2013
    Gravity was very impressive, although it wasn't anywhere near as good as Kubrick's 2001. But then that film was about ideas whereas Gravity is basically an adventure movie.
  • anothernickanothernick Posts: 3,591
    john_zims said:

    @anothernick

    'The UK will not leave the EU. The balance of forces is overwhelmingly against such an outcome. In favour of staying in we have'

    Shame, you forgot about voters.

    Ever since the UK joined the EU in 1973 opinion polls have consistently shown a majority for leaving. The only time when this was not the case was in 1975, when voters were actually faced with making a decision on the issue. Suddenly withdrawal did not seem such a great idea.I have no doubt that the same would happen again were there to be another referendum.

  • HYUFD said:

    The EU polls also show a clear NO to withdrawal if Cameron achieves a renegotiation. This decade will probably have 3 key referendums on the constitution, on electoral reform and AV, the Union and Scottish independence, and EU membership, in political terms it is the biggest decade for determining our nation's future direction since WW2. Personally, as with AV, I expect no change in any of the referendums, although I think the EU referendum will be the tightest with just a few points in it

    Problems with reading a lot into that polling:
    1) Middle option bias.
    2) It leaves the voters to fill in the blanks about what they'd like the renegotiation to achieve, when in reality the voters wouldn't get much that they actually wanted, and might not want much of what they did get, like the right to shittier working conditions if the UK opted out of the Social Chapter again.
  • surbitonsurbiton Posts: 13,549
    This Opinium poll proves tim's point: the Tories are the recruiting sergeant for the Kippers.
This discussion has been closed.