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politicalbetting.com » Blog Archive » The second stage of LAB’s leadership race sees Starmer drop a

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  • isamisam Posts: 41,118

    What do you think they're smoking over there at Emirates?

    https://twitter.com/FootyAccums/status/1217061936841527296

    A three match ban is harsh for that challenge
  • MexicanpeteMexicanpete Posts: 28,386
    edited January 2020
    isam said:

    What do you think they're smoking over there at Emirates?

    https://twitter.com/FootyAccums/status/1217061936841527296

    A three match ban is harsh for that challenge
    What? He took his leg off above the ankle!
  • isamisam Posts: 41,118
    edited January 2020

    isam said:

    What do you think they're smoking over there at Emirates?

    https://twitter.com/FootyAccums/status/1217061936841527296

    A three match ban is harsh for that challenge
    What? He took his leg off at the ankle!
    It was just a late challenge, no malice in it. It was a red card, no doubt, but I would have thought a three match ban was for challenges with more spite in them than that
  • GallowgateGallowgate Posts: 19,468
    edited January 2020
    Here’s the Level Playing Field presentation from the European Commission ‘preparation’ seminar on the future relationship negotiations.

    https://ec.europa.eu/commission/sites/beta-political/files/seminar-20200114-lpf_en.pdf

    Key bits:

    Given the UK's geographic proximity and economic interdependence with the EU27, the future relationship will only deliver in a mutually satisfactory way if it includes robust guarantees which ensure a level playing field.

    The aim should be to prevent unfair competitive advantage that the UK could enjoy through undercutting of levels of protection with respect to, inter alia, competition and state aid, tax, social, environment and regulatory measures and practices.
  • ralphmalphralphmalph Posts: 2,201
    https://www.theguardian.com/commentisfree/2020/jan/14/trust-politics-public-mistrust-labour

    Jess Philips sets out her stall for Labour Leader. She ruins her argument in the first paragraph, the rest is not very good at all, but a least the did not mention Thatcher ans seems to be focusing on the future as opposed to obsessing about the past glory days.
  • HYUFDHYUFD Posts: 123,148
    Flanner said:

    kjh said:

    HYUFD said:

    HYUFD said:

    Given the experience of election 2017 and the dementia tax proposal any political party which proposes any major changes on it faces political suicide, so no surprise there
    80 seat majority with five years. Now is the time to do something.
    Nope, we Tory activists do not want a new poll tax or dementia tax thanks with local council elections in May and nor does Boris
    HYUFD I can understand you not wanting these if you think they are wrong, but not wanting them because it would cost you council seats is not moral. What is the point of getting into power if you aren't going to do stuff that you think is right. Political parties are not football teams. The objective is to do stuff not just to win. What is the point of that?
    Political parties are like football teams. Corbynite Labour opposed Blair/Brown, and Boris's Conservatives ran against the Cameron and May governments on austerity, police and of course Brexit. It ejected prominent members including two former Chancellors. Some members left but most remained. Just like football when a new manager sells the star midfielder, the fans stay loyal.
    The ONLY point of having a large majority is to use it at the beginning of the session to do things you daren't do at the end.

    And that's especially true of a policy that affects your core voters.

    The political truth about dementia - which Tory activists are too out of touch to understand - is that current policies don't particularly hurt the poorest. If you've got no assets - and in 2017, 37% of the population lived in a home they didn't own - you get your social care for free: you're not worried about losing your home if you're renting. If you're worth a few million, you can afford to pay any dementia tax anyway.

    The people today's dither hits worst are averagely to slightly above averagely affluent pensioners. The people most terrified about losing their home voted Tory.

    When Tory activists bleat about the unpopularity of a proper social policy, they don't mean it'd be unpopular among Tory voters. They mean it'd be unpopular among Tory activists.

    They truly are the stupid party
    No, it is to deliver Tory policies you were elected on. Given the Tories never win renters (combining private and social) it is those with assets who make up the Tory core vote and it would be political suicide to take away their house ie their main owned asset which is what May discovered and Boris will never do it
  • viewcodeviewcode Posts: 22,127
    Here's a nasty thought. In 1964 there was an election and Labour won a majority of 4. In 1966 there was another election and Labour won a majority of 97. In 1970 they were expected to win but they actually lost, with Con getting a majority of 31. Why did the Conservatives win in 1970? Genuine question.
  • isamisam Posts: 41,118
    viewcode said:

    Here's a nasty thought. In 1964 there was an election and Labour won a majority of 4. In 1966 there was another election and Labour won a majority of 97. In 1970 they were expected to win but they actually lost, with Con getting a majority of 31. Why did the Conservatives win in 1970? Genuine question.

    Hmmm...
  • viewcodeviewcode Posts: 22,127

    I'm currently viewing 1917 (film) at the cinema.

    Put the tablet down. Watch the film... :)
  • HYUFDHYUFD Posts: 123,148
    edited January 2020
    isam said:
    So because Vince Vaughan happens to be a Republican and Trump supporter that suddenly makes his films you previously watched unwatchable? The fanaticism of the left
  • alterego said:

    Flanner said:

    kjh said:

    HYUFD said:

    HYUFD said:

    Given the experience of election 2017 and the dementia tax proposal any political party which proposes any major changes on it faces political suicide, so no surprise there
    80 seat majority with five years. Now is the time to do something.
    Nope, we Tory activists do not want a new poll tax or dementia tax thanks with local council elections in May and nor does Boris
    HYUFD I can understand you not wanting these if you think they are wrong, but not wanting them because it would cost you council seats is not moral. What is the point of getting into power if you aren't going to do stuff that you think is right. Political parties are not football teams. The objective is to do stuff not just to win. What is the point of that?
    Political parties are like football teams. Corbynite Labour opposed Blair/Brown, and Boris's Conservatives ran against the Cameron and May governments on austerity, police and of course Brexit. It ejected prominent members including two former Chancellors. Some members left but most remained. Just like football when a new manager sells the star midfielder, the fans stay loyal.
    The ONLY point of having a large majority is to use it at the beginning of the session to do things you daren't do at the end.

    And that's especially true of a policy that affects your core voters.

    The political truth about dementia - which Tory activists are too out of touch to understand - is that current policies don't particularly hurt the poorest. If you've got no assets - and in 2017, 37% of the population lived in a home they didn't own - you get your social care for free: you're not worried about losing your home if you're renting. If you're worth a few million, you can afford to pay any dementia tax anyway.

    The people today's dither hits worst are averagely to slightly above averagely affluent pensioners. The people most terrified about losing their home voted Tory.

    When Tory activists bleat about the unpopularity of a proper social policy, they don't mean it'd be unpopular among Tory voters. They mean it'd be unpopular among Tory activists.

    They truly are the stupid party
    Imagine losing in a landslide to the stupid party! :wink:
    Must be the Stupider Party, although indications are the it's the Stupidest Possible Party.
    "That was a Party Election Broadcast by the Silly Party!"
  • AlistairAlistair Posts: 23,670
    viewcode said:

    Here's a nasty thought. In 1964 there was an election and Labour won a majority of 4. In 1966 there was another election and Labour won a majority of 97. In 1970 they were expected to win but they actually lost, with Con getting a majority of 31. Why did the Conservatives win in 1970? Genuine question.

    The Conservatives promised to bankrupt the country and blame it on Labour.
  • DecrepiterJohnLDecrepiterJohnL Posts: 27,943
    edited January 2020
    viewcode said:

    Here's a nasty thought. In 1964 there was an election and Labour won a majority of 4. In 1966 there was another election and Labour won a majority of 97. In 1970 they were expected to win but they actually lost, with Con getting a majority of 31. Why did the Conservatives win in 1970? Genuine question.

    Gordon Banks' tummy is the usual explanation.

    ETA iirc there was also a bad balance of trade figure announced just beforehand in the days when anyone cared.
  • GallowgateGallowgate Posts: 19,468
    HYUFD said:

    isam said:
    So because Vince Vaughan happens to be a Republican and Trump supporter that suddenly makes his films you previously watched unwatchable? The fanaticism of the left
    I’m sorry but you cant lecture anyone on the subject of fanaticism.
  • HYUFDHYUFD Posts: 123,148

    Llafur Cymru more principled than SLab shock.

    https://twitter.com/AMCarwyn/status/1217072683160080387?s=20

    54% of Scots voted for Unionist parties at the general election after Brexit, we do not care what ex Labour Welsh leaders with an axe to grind against Boris think
  • HYUFDHYUFD Posts: 123,148
    edited January 2020

    HYUFD said:

    HYUFD said:

    HYUFD said:

    Second like Team Gobby Cow in Scotland.

    Edit: maybe not a sure thing after all.

    7th, like the number of years since indyref1 before Sturgeon faces an SNP leadership coup having surpassed even May in dithering and seen the Unionists take a majority at Holyrood
    You never got back to me about that fake tweet you were fluffing earlier on today.
    No fake tweet, and as the Wings website link I gave you shows and you completely ignored they have given up on Sturgeon

    https://wingsoverscotland.com/there-is-no-plan/
    Please show me the tweet again, just to confirm.
    Find it yourself, as a diehard Unionist their Twitter blocked me months ago but I linked to what was retweeted on what they said and as you yet again completely ignored the website link from their site today I posted why should I bother giving you links anyway?
    As was pointed out to you the WoS twitter account was suspended a month ago, so anything purporting to be a current tweet was a fake.

    First they ignore you, then they laugh at you, then they post fake tweets*, then you win.

    *I'm pretty sure you ultra Unionist chickenhawks and computer chair warriors don't have much fight in you, hence the constant running away.
    There was nothing fake about it, as the link from the Wings over Scotland website I linked to made very clear from Sturgeon 'There is no Plan A'.

    Deny it all you want, the ultra Nats are getting angry with Nicola

    https://wingsoverscotland.com/there-is-no-plan/
  • GallowgateGallowgate Posts: 19,468
    HYUFD said:

    Llafur Cymru more principled than SLab shock.

    https://twitter.com/AMCarwyn/status/1217072683160080387?s=20

    54% of Scots voted for Unionist parties at the general election after Brexit, we do not care what ex Labour Welsh leaders with an axe to grind against Boris think
    56% of Brits voted against you.
  • viewcode said:

    Here's a nasty thought. In 1964 there was an election and Labour won a majority of 4. In 1966 there was another election and Labour won a majority of 97. In 1970 they were expected to win but they actually lost, with Con getting a majority of 31. Why did the Conservatives win in 1970? Genuine question.

    Franchise expanded to 18 year olds in 1969? Tory includes 12 or so UUP MPs?
  • GallowgateGallowgate Posts: 19,468
    HYUFD said:

    HYUFD said:

    HYUFD said:

    HYUFD said:

    Second like Team Gobby Cow in Scotland.

    Edit: maybe not a sure thing after all.

    7th, like the number of years since indyref1 before Sturgeon faces an SNP leadership coup having surpassed even May in dithering and seen the Unionists take a majority at Holyrood
    You never got back to me about that fake tweet you were fluffing earlier on today.
    No fake tweet, and as the Wings website link I gave you shows and you completely ignored they have given up on Sturgeon

    https://wingsoverscotland.com/there-is-no-plan/
    Please show me the tweet again, just to confirm.
    Find it yourself, as a diehard Unionist their Twitter blocked me months ago but I linked to what was retweeted on what they said and as you yet again completely ignored the website link from their site today I posted why should I bother giving you links anyway?
    As was pointed out to you the WoS twitter account was suspended a month ago, so anything purporting to be a current tweet was a fake.

    First they ignore you, then they laugh at you, then they post fake tweets*, then you win.

    *I'm pretty sure you ultra Unionist chickenhawks and computer chair warriors don't have much fight in you, hence the constant running away.
    There was nothing fake about it, as the link from the Wings over Scotland website I linked to made very clear

    https://wingsoverscotland.com/there-is-no-plan/
    I don’t see the tweet on that page. Can you point it out please?
  • HYUFD said:

    Llafur Cymru more principled than SLab shock.

    https://twitter.com/AMCarwyn/status/1217072683160080387?s=20

    54% of Scots voted for Unionist parties at the general election after Brexit, we do not care what ex Labour Welsh leaders with an axe to grind against Boris think
    Una, Grande y Libre!
    (but run away from a fight whenever possible).
  • HYUFDHYUFD Posts: 123,148
    MrsB said:

    HYUFD said:

    kle4 said:

    Maybe he did have a plan on the day he become PM, it's just that it was shit?
    That plan in full:

    a) no one should have to sell your home

    b) Somebody has to pay for it

    c) Er... that's it so far.
    Great plan, stick go it Boris, after their antics of 2017 do not give Labour an inch, if they want to take political suicide that is up to them, otherwise wait for a Royal cross party Commission
    you do know the Tories are in charge and therefore they have to take some action to set up that Royal Commission, don't you? It won't magically appear by itself.
    It won't without Labour and LD participation either
  • viewcode said:

    Here's a nasty thought. In 1964 there was an election and Labour won a majority of 4. In 1966 there was another election and Labour won a majority of 97. In 1970 they were expected to win but they actually lost, with Con getting a majority of 31. Why did the Conservatives win in 1970? Genuine question.

    Peter Bonetti.
  • viewcodeviewcode Posts: 22,127
    isam said:

    Not sure if this can be viewed by non-facebookers, but sad as it may be to admit, this compilation of adverts made me quite emotional

    https://www.facebook.com/OnlyFoolsandLegends/videos/481590492503620/

    Britain goes better with Shell. You got an ology, your a scientist! Whazzup! If you see Sid, tell him. Heineken refreshes the parts other beers cannot reach. It's good to talk. My name? JR Hartley. Mums go to Iceland. Harp stats sharp to the bottom of the glass. A finger of fudge is just enough until it's time to eat. Kiara! Adora! It's just for me and my dog. Charley says... The Milky Bars are on me!

    :)
  • HYUFDHYUFD Posts: 123,148
    edited January 2020

    HYUFD said:

    HYUFD said:

    HYUFD said:

    HYUFD said:

    Second like Team Gobby Cow in Scotland.

    Edit: maybe not a sure thing after all.

    7th, like the number of years since indyref1 before Sturgeon faces an SNP leadership coup having surpassed even May in dithering and seen the Unionists take a majority at Holyrood
    You never got back to me about that fake tweet you were fluffing earlier on today.
    No fake tweet, and as the Wings website link I gave you shows and you completely ignored they have given up on Sturgeon

    https://wingsoverscotland.com/there-is-no-plan/
    Please show me the tweet again, just to confirm.
    Find it yourself, as a diehard Unionist their Twitter blocked me months ago but I linked to what was retweeted on what they said and as you yet again completely ignored the website link from their site today I posted why should I bother giving you links anyway?
    As was pointed out to you the WoS twitter account was suspended a month ago, so anything purporting to be a current tweet was a fake.

    First they ignore you, then they laugh at you, then they post fake tweets*, then you win.

    *I'm pretty sure you ultra Unionist chickenhawks and computer chair warriors don't have much fight in you, hence the constant running away.
    There was nothing fake about it, as the link from the Wings over Scotland website I linked to made very clear

    https://wingsoverscotland.com/there-is-no-plan/
    I don’t see the tweet on that page. Can you point it out please?
    I posted it earlier as someone captured a screenshot of it when posted, as the Wings twitter account has been suspended there is no other copy on Twitter

    https://twitter.com/TheBrawly/status/1217051984718594048?s=20
  • GallowgateGallowgate Posts: 19,468
    HYUFD said:

    HYUFD said:

    HYUFD said:

    HYUFD said:

    HYUFD said:

    Second like Team Gobby Cow in Scotland.

    Edit: maybe not a sure thing after all.

    7th, like the number of years since indyref1 before Sturgeon faces an SNP leadership coup having surpassed even May in dithering and seen the Unionists take a majority at Holyrood
    You never got back to me about that fake tweet you were fluffing earlier on today.
    No fake tweet, and as the Wings website link I gave you shows and you completely ignored they have given up on Sturgeon

    https://wingsoverscotland.com/there-is-no-plan/
    Please show me the tweet again, just to confirm.
    Find it yourself, as a diehard Unionist their Twitter blocked me months ago but I linked to what was retweeted on what they said and as you yet again completely ignored the website link from their site today I posted why should I bother giving you links anyway?
    As was pointed out to you the WoS twitter account was suspended a month ago, so anything purporting to be a current tweet was a fake.

    First they ignore you, then they laugh at you, then they post fake tweets*, then you win.

    *I'm pretty sure you ultra Unionist chickenhawks and computer chair warriors don't have much fight in you, hence the constant running away.
    There was nothing fake about it, as the link from the Wings over Scotland website I linked to made very clear

    https://wingsoverscotland.com/there-is-no-plan/
    I don’t see the tweet on that page. Can you point it out please?
    I posted it earlier as someone captured a screenshot of it when posted, as the Wings twitter account has been suspended there is no other copy on Twitter

    https://twitter.com/TheBrawly/status/1217051984718594048?s=20
    So the tweet is either fake or has nothing to do with the events of today. Glad we cleared that one up. How misleading.
  • isamisam Posts: 41,118
    viewcode said:

    isam said:

    Not sure if this can be viewed by non-facebookers, but sad as it may be to admit, this compilation of adverts made me quite emotional

    https://www.facebook.com/OnlyFoolsandLegends/videos/481590492503620/

    Britain goes better with Shell. You got an ology, your a scientist! Whazzup! If you see Sid, tell him. Heineken refreshes the parts other beers cannot reach. It's good to talk. My name? JR Hartley. Mums go to Iceland. Harp stats sharp to the bottom of the glass. A finger of fudge is just enough until it's time to eat. Kiara! Adora! It's just for me and my dog. Charley says... The Milky Bars are on me!

    :)
    Feed Me!
  • StockyStocky Posts: 10,222
    isam said:

    viewcode said:

    isam said:

    Not sure if this can be viewed by non-facebookers, but sad as it may be to admit, this compilation of adverts made me quite emotional

    https://www.facebook.com/OnlyFoolsandLegends/videos/481590492503620/

    Britain goes better with Shell. You got an ology, your a scientist! Whazzup! If you see Sid, tell him. Heineken refreshes the parts other beers cannot reach. It's good to talk. My name? JR Hartley. Mums go to Iceland. Harp stats sharp to the bottom of the glass. A finger of fudge is just enough until it's time to eat. Kiara! Adora! It's just for me and my dog. Charley says... The Milky Bars are on me!

    :)
    Feed Me!
    isam: your friend still keen on RLB`s chances - you mentioned it last week?
  • HYUFDHYUFD Posts: 123,148

    HYUFD said:

    HYUFD said:

    HYUFD said:

    HYUFD said:

    HYUFD said:

    Second like Team Gobby Cow in Scotland.

    Edit: maybe not a sure thing after all.

    7th, like the number of years since indyref1 before Sturgeon faces an SNP leadership coup having surpassed even May in dithering and seen the Unionists take a majority at Holyrood
    You never got back to me about that fake tweet you were fluffing earlier on today.
    No fake tweet, and as the Wings website link I gave you shows and you completely ignored they have given up on Sturgeon

    https://wingsoverscotland.com/there-is-no-plan/
    Please show me the tweet again, just to confirm.
    Find it yourself, as a diehard Unionist their Twitter blocked me months ago but I linked to what was retweeted on what they said and as you yet again completely ignored the website link from their site today I posted why should I bother giving you links anyway?
    As was pointed out to you the WoS twitter account was suspended a month ago, so anything purporting to be a current tweet was a fake.

    First they ignore you, then they laugh at you, then they post fake tweets*, then you win.

    *I'm pretty sure you ultra Unionist chickenhawks and computer chair warriors don't have much fight in you, hence the constant running away.
    There was nothing fake about it, as the link from the Wings over Scotland website I linked to made very clear

    https://wingsoverscotland.com/there-is-no-plan/
    I don’t see the tweet on that page. Can you point it out please?
    I posted it earlier as someone captured a screenshot of it when posted, as the Wings twitter account has been suspended there is no other copy on Twitter

    https://twitter.com/TheBrawly/status/1217051984718594048?s=20
    So the tweet is either fake or has nothing to do with the events of today. Glad we cleared that one up. How misleading.
    Nope you can lie all you want, that was the original tweet as confirmed by the Twitter tick attached. Wings over Scotland has turned against Sturgeon
  • Looks like Nandy will be on the final Labour leadership ballot. This is beginning to get very interesting.
  • viewcodeviewcode Posts: 22,127

    viewcode said:

    Here's a nasty thought. In 1964 there was an election and Labour won a majority of 4. In 1966 there was another election and Labour won a majority of 97. In 1970 they were expected to win but they actually lost, with Con getting a majority of 31. Why did the Conservatives win in 1970? Genuine question.

    Peter Bonetti.
    Naahhh. I've heard that rumour lots of times but just don't believe it. You don't overturn a 98 seat majority on a footy match
  • StockyStocky Posts: 10,222

    Looks like Nandy will be on the final Labour leadership ballot. This is beginning to get very interesting.

    Because of the NUM backing?
  • AlistairAlistair Posts: 23,670
    edited January 2020
    HYUFD said:

    HYUFD said:

    HYUFD said:

    HYUFD said:

    HYUFD said:

    HYUFD said:

    Second like Team Gobby Cow in Scotland.

    Edit: maybe not a sure thing after all.

    7th, like the number of years since indyref1 before Sturgeon faces an SNP leadership coup having surpassed even May in dithering and seen the Unionists take a majority at Holyrood
    You never got back to me about that fake tweet you were fluffing earlier on today.
    No fake tweet, and as the Wings website link I gave you shows and you completely ignored they have given up on Sturgeon

    https://wingsoverscotland.com/there-is-no-plan/
    Please show me the tweet again, just to confirm.
    Find it yourself, as a diehard Unionist their Twitter blocked me months ago but I linked to what was retweeted on what they said and as you yet again completely ignored the website link from their site today I posted why should I bother giving you links anyway?
    As was pointed out to you the WoS twitter account was suspended a month ago, so anything purporting to be a current tweet was a fake.

    First they ignore you, then they laugh at you, then they post fake tweets*, then you win.

    *I'm pretty sure you ultra Unionist chickenhawks and computer chair warriors don't have much fight in you, hence the constant running away.
    There was nothing fake about it, as the link from the Wings over Scotland website I linked to made very clear

    https://wingsoverscotland.com/there-is-no-plan/
    I don’t see the tweet on that page. Can you point it out please?
    I posted it earlier as someone captured a screenshot of it when posted, as the Wings twitter account has been suspended there is no other copy on Twitter

    https://twitter.com/TheBrawly/status/1217051984718594048?s=20
    So the tweet is either fake or has nothing to do with the events of today. Glad we cleared that one up. How misleading.
    Nope you can lie all you want, that was the original tweet as confirmed by the Twitter tick attached. Wings over Scotland has turned against Sturgeon
    Yes. But as you are a bit thick I will explain it to you. Wing's has been suspended for a month. Thus that image of a tweet cannot be a tweet in relation to today's events.

    It is literally impossible.
  • GallowgateGallowgate Posts: 19,468
    HYUFD said:

    HYUFD said:

    HYUFD said:

    HYUFD said:

    HYUFD said:

    HYUFD said:

    Second like Team Gobby Cow in Scotland.

    Edit: maybe not a sure thing after all.

    7th, like the number of years since indyref1 before Sturgeon faces an SNP leadership coup having surpassed even May in dithering and seen the Unionists take a majority at Holyrood
    You never got back to me about that fake tweet you were fluffing earlier on today.
    No fake tweet, and as the Wings website link I gave you shows and you completely ignored they have given up on Sturgeon

    https://wingsoverscotland.com/there-is-no-plan/
    Please show me the tweet again, just to confirm.
    Find it yourself, as a diehard Unionist their Twitter blocked me months ago but I linked to what was retweeted on what they said and as you yet again completely ignored the website link from their site today I posted why should I bother giving you links anyway?
    As was pointed out to you the WoS twitter account was suspended a month ago, so anything purporting to be a current tweet was a fake.

    First they ignore you, then they laugh at you, then they post fake tweets*, then you win.

    *I'm pretty sure you ultra Unionist chickenhawks and computer chair warriors don't have much fight in you, hence the constant running away.
    There was nothing fake about it, as the link from the Wings over Scotland website I linked to made very clear

    https://wingsoverscotland.com/there-is-no-plan/
    I don’t see the tweet on that page. Can you point it out please?
    I posted it earlier as someone captured a screenshot of it when posted, as the Wings twitter account has been suspended there is no other copy on Twitter

    https://twitter.com/TheBrawly/status/1217051984718594048?s=20
    So the tweet is either fake or has nothing to do with the events of today. Glad we cleared that one up. How misleading.
    Nope you can lie all you want, that was the original tweet as confirmed by the Twitter tick attached. Wings over Scotland has turned against Sturgeon
    ... what?

    Wings Over Scotland’s Twitter account has been suspended for a month. It can’t possibly be about today’s events.

    Secondly, are you aware of the existence of photoshop? I’m not saying it is fake but the presence of a blue tick on a photo is literally irrelevant.
  • viewcode said:

    Here's a nasty thought. In 1964 there was an election and Labour won a majority of 4. In 1966 there was another election and Labour won a majority of 97. In 1970 they were expected to win but they actually lost, with Con getting a majority of 31. Why did the Conservatives win in 1970? Genuine question.

    Gordon Banks' tummy is the usual explanation.

    ETA iirc there was also a bad balance of trade figure announced just beforehand in the days when anyone cared.
    Yes, BBC TV would highlight the balance of payments figures every month like the temperature of a chronically-sick patient. Productivity was flagging and days lost through industrial unrest (the "British Disease") were mounting. Wilson and Castle tried to address the problem in a white paper, In Place of Strife which provoked widespread opposition in the wider Labour movement and may have contributed to a loss of support. Even so, the election result took everyone by surprise.

    https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/In_Place_of_Strife
  • viewcodeviewcode Posts: 22,127

    viewcode said:

    Here's a nasty thought. In 1964 there was an election and Labour won a majority of 4. In 1966 there was another election and Labour won a majority of 97. In 1970 they were expected to win but they actually lost, with Con getting a majority of 31. Why did the Conservatives win in 1970? Genuine question.

    Franchise expanded to 18 year olds in 1969? Tory includes 12 or so UUP MPs?
    Why would allwing teens to vote increase Tory votes?
  • AlistairAlistair Posts: 23,670
    Literally no one is surprised Wings is against Sturgeon. It is not news.

    He has been running an anti Sturgeon campaign for maybe the best part of a year by now
  • CyclefreeCyclefree Posts: 25,318
    spudgfsh said:

    Cyclefree said:

    alterego said:

    Cyclefree said:
    Do you need workers to have a Trade Union?
    If there aren’t any workers what’s the point of the trade union?
    it's become a support mechanism for former miners
    Ah. So that’s what Ian Lavery was doing.
  • HYUFDHYUFD Posts: 123,148

    HYUFD said:

    HYUFD said:

    HYUFD said:

    HYUFD said:

    HYUFD said:

    HYUFD said:

    Second like Team Gobby Cow in Scotland.

    Edit: maybe not a sure thing after all.

    7th, like the number of years since indyref1 before Sturgeon faces an SNP leadership coup having surpassed even May in dithering and seen the Unionists take a majority at Holyrood
    You never got back to me about that fake tweet you were fluffing earlier on today.
    No fake tweet, and as the Wings website link I gave you shows and you completely ignored they have given up on Sturgeon

    https://wingsoverscotland.com/there-is-no-plan/
    Please show me the tweet again, just to confirm.
    Find it yourself, as a links anyway?
    As was pointed out to you the WoS twitter account was suspended a month ago, so anything purporting to be a current tweet was a fake.

    First they ignore you, then they laugh at you, then they post fake tweets*, then you win.

    *I'm pretty sure you ultra Unionist chickenhawks and computer chair warriors don't have much fight in you, hence the constant running away.
    There was nothing fake about it, as the link from the Wings over Scotland website I linked to made very clear

    https://wingsoverscotland.com/there-is-no-plan/
    I don’t see the tweet on that page. Can you point it out please?
    I posted it earlier as someone captured a screenshot of it when posted, as the Wings twitter account has been suspended there is no other copy on Twitter

    https://twitter.com/TheBrawly/status/1217051984718594048?s=20
    So the tweet is either fake or has nothing to do with the events of today. Glad we cleared that one up. How misleading.
    Nope you can lie all you want, that was the original tweet as confirmed by the Twitter tick attached. Wings over Scotland has turned against Sturgeon
    ... what?

    Wings Over Scotland’s Twitter account has been suspended for a month. It can’t possibly be about today’s events.

    Secondly, are you aware of the existence of photoshop? I’m not saying it is fake but the presence of a blue tick on a photo is literally irrelevant.
    This is Wings comment on today's events, Sturgeon has no Plan, backing up the tweet.

    https://wingsoverscotland.com/there-is-no-plan/

    The presence of a blue tick is absolutely relevant as it confirms it as original despite your misleading and false attempts to deny it
  • stodgestodge Posts: 13,898
    edited January 2020
    HYUFD said:



    It won't without Labour and LD participation either

    I note your previous comment the first principle from a Conservative viewpoint is no one should have to sell their home to pay for care home bills.

    Fine - I get that - but as a care home in London and the South East can cost up to £1200pw that's a lot of money needing to be found to support the care home industry which is as much about staff costs as anything.

    The notion people should contribute throughout life to care costs is laudable - I believe only 20% of elderly currently go into care (the dementia numbers, though each one a heartbreaking tale) are tiny. The alternative seems to be we all contribute to a care home fund from which those needing it can draw - I suppose it's analogous to paying tax for education for those of us without children. We contribute even if we derive no direct benefit - one can argue a better educated work force is an indirect benefit.

    The other aspect is the burden social care costs have imposed on Councils especially Shire authorities. A big part of that is the assessment process which requires bureaucracy to administer it - a much simplified version would by itself achieve significant savings.
  • HYUFDHYUFD Posts: 123,148
    edited January 2020
    Alistair said:

    HYUFD said:

    HYUFD said:

    HYUFD said:

    HYUFD said:

    HYUFD said:

    HYUFD said:

    Second like Team Gobby Cow in Scotland.

    Edit: maybe not a sure thing after all.

    7th, like the number of years since indyref1 before Sturgeon faces an SNP leadership coup having surpassed even May in dithering and seen the Unionists take a majority at Holyrood
    You never got back to me about that fake tweet you were fluffing earlier on today.
    No fake tweet, and as the Wings website link I gave you shows and you completely ignored they have given up on Sturgeon

    https://wingsoverscotland.com/there-is-no-plan/
    Please show me the tweet again, just to confirm.
    Find it yourself, as a diehard Unionist their Twitter nks anyway?
    As was pointed out to you the WoS twitter account was suspended a month ago, so anything purporting to be a current tweet was a fake.

    First they ignore you, then they laugh at you, then they post fake tweets*, then you win.

    *I'm pretty sure you ultra Unionist chickenhawks and computer chair warriors don't have much fight in you, hence the constant running away.
    There was nothing fake about it, as the link from the Wings over Scotland website I linked to made very clear

    https://wingsoverscotland.com/there-is-no-plan/
    I don’t see the tweet on that page. Can you point it out please?
    I posted it earlier as someone captured a screenshot of it when posted, as the Wings twitter account has been suspended there is no other copy on Twitter

    https://twitter.com/TheBrawly/status/1217051984718594048?s=20
    So the tweet is either fake or has nothing to do with the events of today. Glad we cleared that one up. How misleading.
    Nope you can lie all you want, that was the original tweet as confirmed by the Twitter tick attached. Wings over Scotland has turned against Sturgeon
    Yes. But as you are a bit thick I will explain it to you. Wing's has been suspended for a month. Thus that image of a tweet cannot be a tweet in relation to today's events.

    It is literally impossible.
    It absolutely connects to today's events as their website shows, a consistent anti Sturgeon line from Wings even if you are too thick to read it

    https://wingsoverscotland.com/there-is-no-plan/
  • GallowgateGallowgate Posts: 19,468
    HYUFD said:

    This is Wings comment on today's events, Sturgeon has no Plan, backing up the tweet.

    https://wingsoverscotland.com/there-is-no-plan/

    The presence of a blue tick is absolutely relevant as it confirms it as original despite your misleading and false attempts to deny it

    I’m sorry but you really are embarrassing yourself here.
  • viewcode said:

    viewcode said:

    Here's a nasty thought. In 1964 there was an election and Labour won a majority of 4. In 1966 there was another election and Labour won a majority of 97. In 1970 they were expected to win but they actually lost, with Con getting a majority of 31. Why did the Conservatives win in 1970? Genuine question.

    Franchise expanded to 18 year olds in 1969? Tory includes 12 or so UUP MPs?
    Why would allwing teens to vote increase Tory votes?
    Notice the question marks?
  • HYUFDHYUFD Posts: 123,148

    HYUFD said:

    This is Wings comment on today's events, Sturgeon has no Plan, backing up the tweet.

    https://wingsoverscotland.com/there-is-no-plan/

    The presence of a blue tick is absolutely relevant as it confirms it as original despite your misleading and false attempts to deny it

    I’m sorry but you really are embarrassing yourself here.
    No, that is you
  • ydoethurydoethur Posts: 71,424
    Cyclefree said:

    spudgfsh said:

    Cyclefree said:

    alterego said:

    Cyclefree said:
    Do you need workers to have a Trade Union?
    If there aren’t any workers what’s the point of the trade union?
    it's become a support mechanism for former miners
    Ah. So that’s what Ian Lavery was doing.
    I think calling what he did ‘supporting former miners’ would be about as accurate as calling Corbyn’s actions ‘tackling antisemitism head on.’
  • viewcode said:

    I'm currently viewing 1917 (film) at the cinema.

    Put the tablet down. Watch the film... :)
    I enjoyed it, it was very good, Indeed.
  • CyclefreeCyclefree Posts: 25,318
    nico67 said:

    nico67 said:

    Utterly disgraceful . Can one imagine what the UK press would have done if it had been another EU country which failed to inform the UK .

    Farage would have been on QT ranting and raving about it afore you could say corrupt EUSSR.
    Added to the violations of the Schengen Information System then the EU must be thinking what on earth is going on . I thought if there’s one thing you might be able to rely on is the UK not trashing its reputation on security matters .

    Even that now is in tatters across the EU.
    If Huawei are invited to run our 5G programme we won’t have any security reputation left to shred. None of the other countries in the 5 Eyes Group are using them. Why would they risk having the UK as the weakest link?
  • viewcode said:

    viewcode said:

    Here's a nasty thought. In 1964 there was an election and Labour won a majority of 4. In 1966 there was another election and Labour won a majority of 97. In 1970 they were expected to win but they actually lost, with Con getting a majority of 31. Why did the Conservatives win in 1970? Genuine question.

    Peter Bonetti.
    Naahhh. I've heard that rumour lots of times but just don't believe it. You don't overturn a 98 seat majority on a footy match
    I did a thread on it.

    https://www7.politicalbetting.com/index.php/archives/2015/11/15/another-reason-why-cameron-shouldnt-hold-the-referendum-next-june/
  • MarqueeMarkMarqueeMark Posts: 52,609

    OT Admin -- we are back to the wide green bars taking up a third of the page.

    Zoom in to 175%
  • viewcodeviewcode Posts: 22,127
    edited January 2020
    isam said:

    viewcode said:

    isam said:

    Not sure if this can be viewed by non-facebookers, but sad as it may be to admit, this compilation of adverts made me quite emotional

    https://www.facebook.com/OnlyFoolsandLegends/videos/481590492503620/

    Britain goes better with Shell. You got an ology, your a scientist! Whazzup! If you see Sid, tell him. Heineken refreshes the parts other beers cannot reach. It's good to talk. My name? JR Hartley. Mums go to Iceland. Harp stats sharp to the bottom of the glass. A finger of fudge is just enough until it's time to eat. Kiara! Adora! It's just for me and my dog. Charley says... The Milky Bars are on me!

    :)
    Feed Me!
    Beanz Meanz Heinz!
  • Stocky said:

    Looks like Nandy will be on the final Labour leadership ballot. This is beginning to get very interesting.

    Because of the NUM backing?

    She looks set to get the GMB, too.

  • MaxPBMaxPB Posts: 38,868
    HYUFD said:



    This is Wings comment on today's events, Sturgeon has no Plan, backing up the tweet.

    https://wingsoverscotland.com/there-is-no-plan/

    The presence of a blue tick is absolutely relevant as it confirms it as original despite your misleading and false attempts to deny it

    https://simitator.com/generator/twitter

    You don't even need Photoshop
  • isamisam Posts: 41,118
    edited January 2020
    Stocky said:

    isam said:

    viewcode said:

    isam said:

    Not sure if this can be viewed by non-facebookers, but sad as it may be to admit, this compilation of adverts made me quite emotional

    https://www.facebook.com/OnlyFoolsandLegends/videos/481590492503620/

    Britain goes better with Shell. You got an ology, your a scientist! Whazzup! If you see Sid, tell him. Heineken refreshes the parts other beers cannot reach. It's good to talk. My name? JR Hartley. Mums go to Iceland. Harp stats sharp to the bottom of the glass. A finger of fudge is just enough until it's time to eat. Kiara! Adora! It's just for me and my dog. Charley says... The Milky Bars are on me!

    :)
    Feed Me!
    isam: your friend still keen on RLB`s chances - you mentioned it last week?
    He seemed to think it would be a match between RLB and Starmer. If Nandy is in the mix that changes it I guess, though he said RLB was a bet at 7.8 and she is now 6 so I guess it was a good tip at the time
  • GallowgateGallowgate Posts: 19,468
    HYUFD said:

    HYUFD said:

    This is Wings comment on today's events, Sturgeon has no Plan, backing up the tweet.

    https://wingsoverscotland.com/there-is-no-plan/

    The presence of a blue tick is absolutely relevant as it confirms it as original despite your misleading and false attempts to deny it

    I’m sorry but you really are embarrassing yourself here.
    No, that is you
    You are being ridiculous.

    This is a photograph of a tweet.



    There is no date on it. It certainly cant be from today because They have has their Twitter account suspended since December.

    Ergo its either fake or has nothing to do with today’s events.

    It’s a completely separate issue to the article on their website which obviously does express displeasure with how the situation is being handled but you’re ruining your argument with this cretinous debate over a photo of a tweet from a racist bigot.
  • HYUFDHYUFD Posts: 123,148
    edited January 2020
    stodge said:

    HYUFD said:



    It won't without Labour and LD participation either

    I note your previous comment the first principle from a Conservative viewpoint is no one should have to sell their home to pay for care home bills.

    Fine - I get that - but as a care home in London and the South East can cost up to £1200pw that's a lot of money needing to be found to support the care home industry which is as much about staff costs as anything.

    The notion people should contribute throughout life to care costs is laudable - I believe only 20% of elderly currently go into care (the dementia numbers, though each one a heartbreaking tale) are tiny. The alternative seems to be we all contribute to a care home fund from which those needing it can draw - I suppose it's analogous to paying tax for education for those of us without children. We contribute even if we derive no direct benefit - one can argue a better educated work force is an indirect benefit.

    The other aspect is the burden social care costs have imposed on Councils especially Shire authorities. A big part of that is the assessment process which requires bureaucracy to administer it - a much simplified version would by itself achieve significant savings.
    As I have said previously my personal view is National Insurance should pay for social care but the winning Tory manifesto is absolutely clear, the home will not be sold to pay for social care
  • Alistair said:

    Literally no one is surprised Wings is against Sturgeon. It is not news.

    He has been running an anti Sturgeon campaign for maybe the best part of a year by now

    Can it be literally no one if HYUFD and Carlotta are getting twisty bloomers over it?
  • rottenboroughrottenborough Posts: 62,769

    Stocky said:

    Looks like Nandy will be on the final Labour leadership ballot. This is beginning to get very interesting.

    Because of the NUM backing?

    She looks set to get the GMB, too.

    Ohhhh!

    Can I just blow my trumpet and say I said she was the dark horse some time ago on here?
  • StockyStocky Posts: 10,222
    isam said:

    Stocky said:

    isam said:

    viewcode said:

    isam said:

    Not sure if this can be viewed by non-facebookers, but sad as it may be to admit, this compilation of adverts made me quite emotional

    https://www.facebook.com/OnlyFoolsandLegends/videos/481590492503620/

    Britain goes better with Shell. You got an ology, your a scientist! Whazzup! If you see Sid, tell him. Heineken refreshes the parts other beers cannot reach. It's good to talk. My name? JR Hartley. Mums go to Iceland. Harp stats sharp to the bottom of the glass. A finger of fudge is just enough until it's time to eat. Kiara! Adora! It's just for me and my dog. Charley says... The Milky Bars are on me!

    :)
    Feed Me!
    isam: your friend still keen on RLB`s chances - you mentioned it last week?
    He seemed to think it would be a match between RLB and Starmer. If Nandy is in the mix that changes it I guess, though he said RLB was a bet at 7.8 and she is now 6 so I guess it was a good tip at the time
    Yes, it was. Thanks.
  • viewcodeviewcode Posts: 22,127

    viewcode said:

    Here's a nasty thought. In 1964 there was an election and Labour won a majority of 4. In 1966 there was another election and Labour won a majority of 97. In 1970 they were expected to win but they actually lost, with Con getting a majority of 31. Why did the Conservatives win in 1970? Genuine question.

    Gordon Banks' tummy is the usual explanation.

    ETA iirc there was also a bad balance of trade figure announced just beforehand in the days when anyone cared.
    Yes, BBC TV would highlight the balance of payments figures every month like the temperature of a chronically-sick patient. Productivity was flagging and days lost through industrial unrest (the "British Disease") were mounting. Wilson and Castle tried to address the problem in a white paper, In Place of Strife which provoked widespread opposition in the wider Labour movement and may have contributed to a loss of support. Even so, the election result took everyone by surprise.

    https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/In_Place_of_Strife
    That's plausible. It can't be Vietnam, Powellism and Northern Ireland didn't get big until a few years later. I did think of proEuropeanism but again, that's a few years later. You're left with economic stuff.

    This is bugging me. I can come up with a plausible explanation for every election 1945 to 2019 except for 1970. Dammit... :(
  • rottenboroughrottenborough Posts: 62,769
    ydoethur said:

    Cyclefree said:

    spudgfsh said:

    Cyclefree said:

    alterego said:

    Cyclefree said:
    Do you need workers to have a Trade Union?
    If there aren’t any workers what’s the point of the trade union?
    it's become a support mechanism for former miners
    Ah. So that’s what Ian Lavery was doing.
    I think calling what he did ‘supporting former miners’ would be about as accurate as calling Corbyn’s actions ‘tackling antisemitism head on.’
    NUM support. Surely highly symbolic for rest of the movement.

    Game on.
  • isamisam Posts: 41,118
    Will we all be looking back in despair at the time we didn't lay Keir Starmer at 1.37?
  • StockyStocky Posts: 10,222

    Stocky said:

    Looks like Nandy will be on the final Labour leadership ballot. This is beginning to get very interesting.

    Because of the NUM backing?

    She looks set to get the GMB, too.

    Ohhhh!

    Can I just blow my trumpet and say I said she was the dark horse some time ago on here?
    I`ve just laid Starmer some more, I still think he`s favourite but I`m banking on him drifting a bit if Nandy and RLB make progress.
  • HYUFDHYUFD Posts: 123,148

    HYUFD said:

    HYUFD said:

    This is Wings comment on today's events, Sturgeon has no Plan, backing up the tweet.

    https://wingsoverscotland.com/there-is-no-plan/

    The presence of a blue tick is absolutely relevant as it confirms it as original despite your misleading and false attempts to deny it

    I’m sorry but you really are embarrassing yourself here.
    No, that is you
    You are being ridiculous.

    This is a photograph of a tweet.



    There is no date on it. It certainly cant be from today because They have has their Twitter account suspended since December.

    Ergo its either fake or has nothing to do with today’s events.

    It’s a completely separate issue to the article on their website which obviously does express displeasure with how the situation is being handled but you’re ruining your argument with this cretinous debate over a photo of a tweet from a racist bigot.
    That is absolutely a tweet and runs identical with the anti Sturgeon line on todays Wings website and runs absolutely in tandem with it despite your false and misleading attempts to deny it
  • rottenboroughrottenborough Posts: 62,769
    HYUFD said:

    stodge said:

    HYUFD said:



    It won't without Labour and LD participation either

    I note your previous comment the first principle from a Conservative viewpoint is no one should have to sell their home to pay for care home bills.

    Fine - I get that - but as a care home in London and the South East can cost up to £1200pw that's a lot of money needing to be found to support the care home industry which is as much about staff costs as anything.

    The notion people should contribute throughout life to care costs is laudable - I believe only 20% of elderly currently go into care (the dementia numbers, though each one a heartbreaking tale) are tiny. The alternative seems to be we all contribute to a care home fund from which those needing it can draw - I suppose it's analogous to paying tax for education for those of us without children. We contribute even if we derive no direct benefit - one can argue a better educated work force is an indirect benefit.

    The other aspect is the burden social care costs have imposed on Councils especially Shire authorities. A big part of that is the assessment process which requires bureaucracy to administer it - a much simplified version would by itself achieve significant savings.
    As I have said previously my personal view is National Insurance should pay for social care but the winning Tory manifesto is absolutely clear, the home will not be sold to pay for social care
    I really don't know why this is so difficult. Brown managed a penny on NI for NHS and not a peep from the tabloids or voters.

    Just has to be presented correctly. Who better than Johnson?
  • isamisam Posts: 41,118
    edited January 2020
    Stocky said:

    Stocky said:

    Looks like Nandy will be on the final Labour leadership ballot. This is beginning to get very interesting.

    Because of the NUM backing?

    She looks set to get the GMB, too.

    Ohhhh!

    Can I just blow my trumpet and say I said she was the dark horse some time ago on here?
    I`ve just laid Starmer some more, I still think he`s favourite but I`m banking on him drifting a bit if Nandy and RLB make progress.
    Aren't you better off backing the other two and hoping Thornberry and JP dont make the cut?
  • AlistairAlistair Posts: 23,670
    HYUFD said:

    HYUFD said:

    HYUFD said:

    This is Wings comment on today's events, Sturgeon has no Plan, backing up the tweet.

    https://wingsoverscotland.com/there-is-no-plan/

    The presence of a blue tick is absolutely relevant as it confirms it as original despite your misleading and false attempts to deny it

    I’m sorry but you really are embarrassing yourself here.
    No, that is you
    You are being ridiculous.

    This is a photograph of a tweet.



    There is no date on it. It certainly cant be from today because They have has their Twitter account suspended since December.

    Ergo its either fake or has nothing to do with today’s events.

    It’s a completely separate issue to the article on their website which obviously does express displeasure with how the situation is being handled but you’re ruining your argument with this cretinous debate over a photo of a tweet from a racist bigot.
    That is absolutely a tweet and runs identical with the anti Sturgeon line on todays Wings website and runs absolutely in tandem with it despite your false and misleading attempts to deny it
    Are you saying that it is a tweet from today?
  • GallowgateGallowgate Posts: 19,468
    HYUFD said:

    HYUFD said:

    HYUFD said:

    This is Wings comment on today's events, Sturgeon has no Plan, backing up the tweet.

    https://wingsoverscotland.com/there-is-no-plan/

    The presence of a blue tick is absolutely relevant as it confirms it as original despite your misleading and false attempts to deny it

    I’m sorry but you really are embarrassing yourself here.
    No, that is you
    You are being ridiculous.

    This is a photograph of a tweet.



    There is no date on it. It certainly cant be from today because They have has their Twitter account suspended since December.

    Ergo its either fake or has nothing to do with today’s events.

    It’s a completely separate issue to the article on their website which obviously does express displeasure with how the situation is being handled but you’re ruining your argument with this cretinous debate over a photo of a tweet from a racist bigot.
    That is absolutely a tweet and runs identical with the anti Sturgeon line on todays Wings website and runs absolutely in tandem with it despite your false and misleading attempts to deny it
    What part of “they’ve had their account suspended since December” do you not understand?
  • CarlottaVanceCarlottaVance Posts: 60,216
    Cyclefree said:

    alterego said:

    Cyclefree said:
    Do you need workers to have a Trade Union?
    If there aren’t any workers what’s the point of the trade union?
    To pay the boss's mortgage off?
  • ydoethurydoethur Posts: 71,424
    viewcode said:

    viewcode said:

    Here's a nasty thought. In 1964 there was an election and Labour won a majority of 4. In 1966 there was another election and Labour won a majority of 97. In 1970 they were expected to win but they actually lost, with Con getting a majority of 31. Why did the Conservatives win in 1970? Genuine question.

    Gordon Banks' tummy is the usual explanation.

    ETA iirc there was also a bad balance of trade figure announced just beforehand in the days when anyone cared.
    Yes, BBC TV would highlight the balance of payments figures every month like the temperature of a chronically-sick patient. Productivity was flagging and days lost through industrial unrest (the "British Disease") were mounting. Wilson and Castle tried to address the problem in a white paper, In Place of Strife which provoked widespread opposition in the wider Labour movement and may have contributed to a loss of support. Even so, the election result took everyone by surprise.

    https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/In_Place_of_Strife
    That's plausible. It can't be Vietnam, Powellism and Northern Ireland didn't get big until a few years later. I did think of proEuropeanism but again, that's a few years later. You're left with economic stuff.

    This is bugging me. I can come up with a plausible explanation for every election 1945 to 2019 except for 1970. Dammit... :(
    There was a suggestion Powellism led to higher than expected swings in the West Midlands, but it’s difficult to justify that on the data I’ve seen.

    The other factor to remember is that under Heath, du Cann and Barber the Tory party ran a very smart long term campaign. It identified swing voters in target seats and pursued them relentlessly for three years. As a result, it picked up the votes it needed to in the places it needed to without making a big national song and dance. This is one reason Labour didn’t notice they were losing out. They were, like Hilary Clinton and Theresa May, listening to all the wrong noises.
  • spudgfshspudgfsh Posts: 1,494
    viewcode said:

    viewcode said:

    Here's a nasty thought. In 1964 there was an election and Labour won a majority of 4. In 1966 there was another election and Labour won a majority of 97. In 1970 they were expected to win but they actually lost, with Con getting a majority of 31. Why did the Conservatives win in 1970? Genuine question.

    Franchise expanded to 18 year olds in 1969? Tory includes 12 or so UUP MPs?
    Why would allwing teens to vote increase Tory votes?
    it was more that labours voters stayed at home. in both 1964 and 1970 Labour got around 12.2 million votes but in 1970 they had all the additional votes from the newly enfranchised 18-21 year olds. The tories however put on over a million votes between the two elections.

    I also don't think we can use todays demographics (young / old) to determine how the youf would have voted in 1970 when there was much more of a class based voting trend.
  • CyclefreeCyclefree Posts: 25,318
    ydoethur said:

    Cyclefree said:

    spudgfsh said:

    Cyclefree said:

    alterego said:

    Cyclefree said:
    Do you need workers to have a Trade Union?
    If there aren’t any workers what’s the point of the trade union?
    it's become a support mechanism for former miners
    Ah. So that’s what Ian Lavery was doing.
    I think calling what he did ‘supporting former miners’ would be about as accurate as calling Corbyn’s actions ‘tackling antisemitism head on.’
    I was being sarcastic ......
  • viewcode said:

    viewcode said:

    Here's a nasty thought. In 1964 there was an election and Labour won a majority of 4. In 1966 there was another election and Labour won a majority of 97. In 1970 they were expected to win but they actually lost, with Con getting a majority of 31. Why did the Conservatives win in 1970? Genuine question.

    Gordon Banks' tummy is the usual explanation.

    ETA iirc there was also a bad balance of trade figure announced just beforehand in the days when anyone cared.
    Yes, BBC TV would highlight the balance of payments figures every month like the temperature of a chronically-sick patient. Productivity was flagging and days lost through industrial unrest (the "British Disease") were mounting. Wilson and Castle tried to address the problem in a white paper, In Place of Strife which provoked widespread opposition in the wider Labour movement and may have contributed to a loss of support. Even so, the election result took everyone by surprise.

    https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/In_Place_of_Strife
    That's plausible. It can't be Vietnam, Powellism and Northern Ireland didn't get big until a few years later. I did think of proEuropeanism but again, that's a few years later. You're left with economic stuff.

    This is bugging me. I can come up with a plausible explanation for every election 1945 to 2019 except for 1970. Dammit... :(
    You're getting me interested! All I remember is falling asleep in front of the TV and waking to the disconcerting sight of Ted Heath's shoulders heaving in triumph.

    Courtesy of AndyJS (I believe) we can watch election night on Youtube:

    https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=cq8PMfpA-6g

    It might be interesting to see where the Tory gains were and what the pundits had to say about it at the time.
  • viewcode said:

    viewcode said:

    Here's a nasty thought. In 1964 there was an election and Labour won a majority of 4. In 1966 there was another election and Labour won a majority of 97. In 1970 they were expected to win but they actually lost, with Con getting a majority of 31. Why did the Conservatives win in 1970? Genuine question.

    Gordon Banks' tummy is the usual explanation.

    ETA iirc there was also a bad balance of trade figure announced just beforehand in the days when anyone cared.
    Yes, BBC TV would highlight the balance of payments figures every month like the temperature of a chronically-sick patient. Productivity was flagging and days lost through industrial unrest (the "British Disease") were mounting. Wilson and Castle tried to address the problem in a white paper, In Place of Strife which provoked widespread opposition in the wider Labour movement and may have contributed to a loss of support. Even so, the election result took everyone by surprise.

    https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/In_Place_of_Strife
    That's plausible. It can't be Vietnam, Powellism and Northern Ireland didn't get big until a few years later. I did think of proEuropeanism but again, that's a few years later. You're left with economic stuff.

    This is bugging me. I can come up with a plausible explanation for every election 1945 to 2019 except for 1970. Dammit... :(
    You're getting me interested! All I remember is falling asleep in front of the TV and waking to the disconcerting sight of Ted Heath's shoulders heaving in triumph.

    Courtesy of AndyJS (I believe) we can watch election night on Youtube:

    https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=cq8PMfpA-6g

    It might be interesting to see where the Tory gains were and what the pundits had to say about it at the time.
    Apparently the pollsters predicted an easy Labour victory.
  • kle4kle4 Posts: 96,153

    I'm currently viewing 1917 (film) at the cinema.

    It's pretty good.
  • ydoethurydoethur Posts: 71,424
    Cyclefree said:

    ydoethur said:

    Cyclefree said:

    spudgfsh said:

    Cyclefree said:

    alterego said:

    Cyclefree said:
    Do you need workers to have a Trade Union?
    If there aren’t any workers what’s the point of the trade union?
    it's become a support mechanism for former miners
    Ah. So that’s what Ian Lavery was doing.
    I think calling what he did ‘supporting former miners’ would be about as accurate as calling Corbyn’s actions ‘tackling antisemitism head on.’
    I was being sarcastic ......
    Although - to be devil’s advocate - Lavery is a former miner, so I suppose he was supporting former miners after a fashion...
  • HYUFDHYUFD Posts: 123,148

    HYUFD said:

    HYUFD said:

    HYUFD said:

    This is Wings comment on today's events, Sturgeon has no Plan, backing up the tweet.

    https://wingsoverscotland.com/there-is-no-plan/

    The presence of a blue tick is absolutely relevant as it confirms it as original despite your misleading and false attempts to deny it

    I’m sorry but you really are embarrassing yourself here.
    No, that is you
    You are being ridiculous.

    This is a photograph of a tweet.



    There is no date on it. It certainly cant be from today because They have has their Twitter account suspended since December.

    Ergo its either fake or has nothing to do with today’s events.

    It’s a completely separate issue to the article on their website which obviously does express displeasure with how the situation is being handled but you’re ruining your argument with this cretinous debate over a photo of a tweet from a racist bigot.
    That is absolutely a tweet and runs identical with the anti Sturgeon line on todays Wings website and runs absolutely in tandem with it despite your false and misleading attempts to deny it
    What part of “they’ve had their account suspended since December” do you not understand?
    What part of 'Wings Over Scotland is anti Sturgeon' do you not understand, I have posted evidence after evidence from twitter and their own website, the facts do not lie despite your refusal to accept them
  • AlistairAlistair Posts: 23,670
    HYUFD said:

    HYUFD said:

    HYUFD said:

    HYUFD said:

    This is Wings comment on today's events, Sturgeon has no Plan, backing up the tweet.

    https://wingsoverscotland.com/there-is-no-plan/

    The presence of a blue tick is absolutely relevant as it confirms it as original despite your misleading and false attempts to deny it

    I’m sorry but you really are embarrassing yourself here.
    No, that is you
    You are being ridiculous.

    This is a photograph of a tweet.



    There is no date on it. It certainly cant be from today because They have has their Twitter account suspended since December.

    Ergo its either fake or has nothing to do with today’s events.

    It’s a completely separate issue to the article on their website which obviously does express displeasure with how the situation is being handled but you’re ruining your argument with this cretinous debate over a photo of a tweet from a racist bigot.
    That is absolutely a tweet and runs identical with the anti Sturgeon line on todays Wings website and runs absolutely in tandem with it despite your false and misleading attempts to deny it
    What part of “they’ve had their account suspended since December” do you not understand?
    What part of 'Wings Over Scotland is anti Sturgeon' do you not understand, I have posted evidence after evidence from twitter and their own website, the facts do not lie despite your refusal to accept them
    No one is disputing that Wings is anti Sturgeon.
  • MexicanpeteMexicanpete Posts: 28,386
    ydoethur said:

    Cyclefree said:

    ydoethur said:

    Cyclefree said:

    spudgfsh said:

    Cyclefree said:

    alterego said:

    Cyclefree said:
    Do you need workers to have a Trade Union?
    If there aren’t any workers what’s the point of the trade union?
    it's become a support mechanism for former miners
    Ah. So that’s what Ian Lavery was doing.
    I think calling what he did ‘supporting former miners’ would be about as accurate as calling Corbyn’s actions ‘tackling antisemitism head on.’
    I was being sarcastic ......
    Although - to be devil’s advocate - Lavery is a former miner, so I suppose he was supporting former miners after a fashion...
    Does a day trip to Big Pit qualify as a career underground?

    I am perhaps being disingenuous but would a HNC in Mining Engineering be required if one was either the canary or chipping away at the face?
  • ydoethurydoethur Posts: 71,424

    ydoethur said:

    Cyclefree said:

    ydoethur said:

    Cyclefree said:

    spudgfsh said:

    Cyclefree said:

    alterego said:

    Cyclefree said:
    Do you need workers to have a Trade Union?
    If there aren’t any workers what’s the point of the trade union?
    it's become a support mechanism for former miners
    Ah. So that’s what Ian Lavery was doing.
    I think calling what he did ‘supporting former miners’ would be about as accurate as calling Corbyn’s actions ‘tackling antisemitism head on.’
    I was being sarcastic ......
    Although - to be devil’s advocate - Lavery is a former miner, so I suppose he was supporting former miners after a fashion...
    Does a day trip to Big Pit qualify as a career underground?

    I am perhaps being disingenuous but would a HNC in Mining Engineering be required if one was either the canary or chipping away at the face?
    I don’t know exactly what role he played. My guess is he was a technician. But, certainly by the 90s, that role was pretty crucial to coal extraction so if my guess is right I’m happy to call him a miner.
  • another_richardanother_richard Posts: 26,622
    edited January 2020
    viewcode said:

    Here's a nasty thought. In 1964 there was an election and Labour won a majority of 4. In 1966 there was another election and Labour won a majority of 97. In 1970 they were expected to win but they actually lost, with Con getting a majority of 31. Why did the Conservatives win in 1970? Genuine question.

    I've never understood the 'Labour were expected to win in 1970' meme.

    The local election results were dreadful for Labour between 1967 and 1969 as were parliamentary byelections.

    Even the April 1970 GLC elections predicted a Conservative win at the GE:

    https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/1970_Greater_London_Council_election

    Though this does beg the question as to why Labour became so unpopular so soon after their big 1966 GE victory.

    There was the 1967 'pound in your pocket' devaluation but did that really have such an effect or were there other issues ?
  • GallowgateGallowgate Posts: 19,468
    HYUFD said:

    HYUFD said:

    HYUFD said:

    HYUFD said:

    This is Wings comment on today's events, Sturgeon has no Plan, backing up the tweet.

    https://wingsoverscotland.com/there-is-no-plan/

    The presence of a blue tick is absolutely relevant as it confirms it as original despite your misleading and false attempts to deny it

    I’m sorry but you really are embarrassing yourself here.
    No, that is you
    You are being ridiculous.

    This is a photograph of a tweet.



    There is no date on it. It certainly cant be from today because They have has their Twitter account suspended since December.

    Ergo its either fake or has nothing to do with today’s events.

    It’s a completely separate issue to the article on their website which obviously does express displeasure with how the situation is being handled but you’re ruining your argument with this cretinous debate over a photo of a tweet from a racist bigot.
    That is absolutely a tweet and runs identical with the anti Sturgeon line on todays Wings website and runs absolutely in tandem with it despite your false and misleading attempts to deny it
    What part of “they’ve had their account suspended since December” do you not understand?
    What part of 'Wings Over Scotland is anti Sturgeon' do you not understand, I have posted evidence after evidence from twitter and their own website, the facts do not lie despite your refusal to accept them
    No-one is disputing that. I’m disputing that the racist bigot you posted as a source was using a photo of a tweet (from 5th December based on my research) to suggest that was the response to today’s events.

    It’s just misleading and instead of acknowledging that you’ve doubled down and its just weird and embarrassing.

    Proper corbynista-esque
  • MexicanpeteMexicanpete Posts: 28,386
    ydoethur said:

    ydoethur said:

    Cyclefree said:

    ydoethur said:

    Cyclefree said:

    spudgfsh said:

    Cyclefree said:

    alterego said:

    Cyclefree said:
    Do you need workers to have a Trade Union?
    If there aren’t any workers what’s the point of the trade union?
    it's become a support mechanism for former miners
    Ah. So that’s what Ian Lavery was doing.
    I think calling what he did ‘supporting former miners’ would be about as accurate as calling Corbyn’s actions ‘tackling antisemitism head on.’
    I was being sarcastic ......
    Although - to be devil’s advocate - Lavery is a former miner, so I suppose he was supporting former miners after a fashion...
    Does a day trip to Big Pit qualify as a career underground?

    I am perhaps being disingenuous but would a HNC in Mining Engineering be required if one was either the canary or chipping away at the face?
    I don’t know exactly what role he played. My guess is he was a technician. But, certainly by the 90s, that role was pretty crucial to coal extraction so if my guess is right I’m happy to call him a miner.
    Call him what you like! I can think of several words more suitable and more offensive than miner!
  • viewcode said:

    viewcode said:

    Here's a nasty thought. In 1964 there was an election and Labour won a majority of 4. In 1966 there was another election and Labour won a majority of 97. In 1970 they were expected to win but they actually lost, with Con getting a majority of 31. Why did the Conservatives win in 1970? Genuine question.

    Gordon Banks' tummy is the usual explanation.

    ETA iirc there was also a bad balance of trade figure announced just beforehand in the days when anyone cared.
    Yes, BBC TV would highlight the balance of payments figures every month like the temperature of a chronically-sick patient. Productivity was flagging and days lost through industrial unrest (the "British Disease") were mounting. Wilson and Castle tried to address the problem in a white paper, In Place of Strife which provoked widespread opposition in the wider Labour movement and may have contributed to a loss of support. Even so, the election result took everyone by surprise.

    https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/In_Place_of_Strife
    That's plausible. It can't be Vietnam, Powellism and Northern Ireland didn't get big until a few years later. I did think of proEuropeanism but again, that's a few years later. You're left with economic stuff.

    This is bugging me. I can come up with a plausible explanation for every election 1945 to 2019 except for 1970. Dammit... :(
    You're getting me interested! All I remember is falling asleep in front of the TV and waking to the disconcerting sight of Ted Heath's shoulders heaving in triumph.

    Courtesy of AndyJS (I believe) we can watch election night on Youtube:

    https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=cq8PMfpA-6g

    It might be interesting to see where the Tory gains were and what the pundits had to say about it at the time.
    Apparently the pollsters predicted an easy Labour victory.
    In retrospect it was an election to lose. The incoming Tory government were unprepared for office and relied on their "lost weekend" Selsdon scheme (watered-down Thatcherism, if only they had realised at the time) combined with EEC entry and ... err ... that was it. The February 1974 election is much easier to explain.

    But Labour would have struggled, too, in much the same way.
  • EPGEPG Posts: 6,652
    1970 was the most interesting election until 2017. The answer is essentially in two parts. First, it was the Powell election. A bit like Corbyn-Brexit in 2017, you could read into Heath-Powell whatever you liked. Some people thought they were voting Tory to send a message that they liked Powell, and they did not expect to end up instead supporting Heath with a big majority. Same way Corbyn was supported by a big seat gain. Second, and not unrelated, it was one of the first big breaches in the class voting system. It seems now like the start of the slow drift away from class and toward race / white racial consciousness as the main identity divide.
  • AnabobazinaAnabobazina Posts: 23,486
    edited January 2020
    ydoethur said:

    Cyclefree said:

    ydoethur said:

    Cyclefree said:

    spudgfsh said:

    Cyclefree said:

    alterego said:

    Cyclefree said:
    Do you need workers to have a Trade Union?
    If there aren’t any workers what’s the point of the trade union?
    it's become a support mechanism for former miners
    Ah. So that’s what Ian Lavery was doing.
    I think calling what he did ‘supporting former miners’ would be about as accurate as calling Corbyn’s actions ‘tackling antisemitism head on.’
    I was being sarcastic ......
    Although - to be devil’s advocate - Lavery is a former miner, so I suppose he was supporting former miners after a fashion...
    I spoke to a friend who is involved with Labour in the NE. She said Lavery was never a miner. He worked at a colliery. But apparently his being a miner is a carefully crafted falsehood.
  • viewcode said:

    Here's a nasty thought. In 1964 there was an election and Labour won a majority of 4. In 1966 there was another election and Labour won a majority of 97. In 1970 they were expected to win but they actually lost, with Con getting a majority of 31. Why did the Conservatives win in 1970? Genuine question.

    I've never understood the 'Labour were expected to win in 1970' meme.

    The local election results were dreadful for Labour between 1967 and 1969 as were parliamentary byelections.

    Even the April 1970 GLC elections predicted a Conservative win at the GE:

    https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/1970_Greater_London_Council_election

    Though this does beg the question as to why Labour became so unpopular so soon after their big 1966 GE victory.

    There was the 1967 'pound in your pocket' devaluation but did that really have such an effect or were there other issues ?
    Wilson was quite unpopular away from the north of England and the age of deference had continued to crumble on his watch, assisted by good old BBC2 late-night satire. Appearing on TV with the fab four, who remorselessly took the piss, didn't help either. A working class hero is something to be...
  • justin124justin124 Posts: 11,527

    viewcode said:

    Here's a nasty thought. In 1964 there was an election and Labour won a majority of 4. In 1966 there was another election and Labour won a majority of 97. In 1970 they were expected to win but they actually lost, with Con getting a majority of 31. Why did the Conservatives win in 1970? Genuine question.

    Franchise expanded to 18 year olds in 1969? Tory includes 12 or so UUP MPs?
    Northern Ireland then had 12 MPs - of whom 8 were UlsterUnionists taking the Tory Whip. Without them , Heath's Tory majority would have been just 15 - reduced to 13 in May 1971 following loss of the Bromsgrove by election - and 11 in December 1972 when Sutton & Cheam was gained by the Liberals.By late 1973 , Heath's majority would have been just 4 without Unionist support.
  • ydoethur said:

    viewcode said:

    viewcode said:

    Here's a nasty thought. In 1964 there was an election and Labour won a majority of 4. In 1966 there was another election and Labour won a majority of 97. In 1970 they were expected to win but they actually lost, with Con getting a majority of 31. Why did the Conservatives win in 1970? Genuine question.

    Gordon Banks' tummy is the usual explanation.

    ETA iirc there was also a bad balance of trade figure announced just beforehand in the days when anyone cared.
    Yes, BBC TV would highlight the balance of payments figures every month like the temperature of a chronically-sick patient. Productivity was flagging and days lost through industrial unrest (the "British Disease") were mounting. Wilson and Castle tried to address the problem in a white paper, In Place of Strife which provoked widespread opposition in the wider Labour movement and may have contributed to a loss of support. Even so, the election result took everyone by surprise.

    https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/In_Place_of_Strife
    That's plausible. It can't be Vietnam, Powellism and Northern Ireland didn't get big until a few years later. I did think of proEuropeanism but again, that's a few years later. You're left with economic stuff.

    This is bugging me. I can come up with a plausible explanation for every election 1945 to 2019 except for 1970. Dammit... :(
    There was a suggestion Powellism led to higher than expected swings in the West Midlands, but it’s difficult to justify that on the data I’ve seen.

    The other factor to remember is that under Heath, du Cann and Barber the Tory party ran a very smart long term campaign. It identified swing voters in target seats and pursued them relentlessly for three years. As a result, it picked up the votes it needed to in the places it needed to without making a big national song and dance. This is one reason Labour didn’t notice they were losing out. They were, like Hilary Clinton and Theresa May, listening to all the wrong noises.
    Certainly a big swing in your part of the world in 1970:

    https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Cannock_(UK_Parliament_constituency)
  • ydoethurydoethur Posts: 71,424

    ydoethur said:

    ydoethur said:

    Cyclefree said:

    ydoethur said:

    Cyclefree said:

    spudgfsh said:

    Cyclefree said:

    alterego said:

    Cyclefree said:
    Do you need workers to have a Trade Union?
    If there aren’t any workers what’s the point of the trade union?
    it's become a support mechanism for former miners
    Ah. So that’s what Ian Lavery was doing.
    I think calling what he did ‘supporting former miners’ would be about as accurate as calling Corbyn’s actions ‘tackling antisemitism head on.’
    I was being sarcastic ......
    Although - to be devil’s advocate - Lavery is a former miner, so I suppose he was supporting former miners after a fashion...
    Does a day trip to Big Pit qualify as a career underground?

    I am perhaps being disingenuous but would a HNC in Mining Engineering be required if one was either the canary or chipping away at the face?
    I don’t know exactly what role he played. My guess is he was a technician. But, certainly by the 90s, that role was pretty crucial to coal extraction so if my guess is right I’m happy to call him a miner.
    Call him what you like! I can think of several words more suitable and more offensive than miner!
    Shall we compromise and go for ‘minger?’
  • viewcode said:

    Here's a nasty thought. In 1964 there was an election and Labour won a majority of 4. In 1966 there was another election and Labour won a majority of 97. In 1970 they were expected to win but they actually lost, with Con getting a majority of 31. Why did the Conservatives win in 1970? Genuine question.

    I've never understood the 'Labour were expected to win in 1970' meme.

    The local election results were dreadful for Labour between 1967 and 1969 as were parliamentary byelections.

    Even the April 1970 GLC elections predicted a Conservative win at the GE:

    https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/1970_Greater_London_Council_election

    Though this does beg the question as to why Labour became so unpopular so soon after their big 1966 GE victory.

    There was the 1967 'pound in your pocket' devaluation but did that really have such an effect or were there other issues ?
    Wilson was quite unpopular away from the north of England and the age of deference had continued to crumble on his watch, assisted by good old BBC2 late-night satire. Appearing on TV with the fab four, who remorselessly took the piss, didn't help either. A working class hero is something to be...
    But the heaviest Labour losses in 1970 were in Lancashire where Wilson had his constituency.

    Whereas Labour did relatively well in southern England.
  • spudgfshspudgfsh Posts: 1,494
    justin124 said:

    viewcode said:

    Here's a nasty thought. In 1964 there was an election and Labour won a majority of 4. In 1966 there was another election and Labour won a majority of 97. In 1970 they were expected to win but they actually lost, with Con getting a majority of 31. Why did the Conservatives win in 1970? Genuine question.

    Franchise expanded to 18 year olds in 1969? Tory includes 12 or so UUP MPs?
    Northern Ireland then had 12 MPs - of whom 8 were UlsterUnionists taking the Tory Whip. Without them , Heath's Tory majority would have been just 15 - reduced to 13 in May 1971 following loss of the Bromsgrove by election - and 11 in December 1972 when Sutton & Cheam was gained by the Liberals.By late 1973 , Heath's majority would have been just 4 without Unionist support.
    but the UUP did stop taking the whip during the parliament (1972 ish) because of the suspension of stormont.
  • HYUFDHYUFD Posts: 123,148

    HYUFD said:

    HYUFD said:

    HYUFD said:

    HYUFD said:

    This is Wings comment on today's events, Sturgeon has no Plan, backing up the tweet.

    https://wingsoverscotland.com/there-is-no-plan/

    The presence of a blue tick is absolutely relevant as it confirms it as original despite your misleading and false attempts to deny it

    I’m sorry but you really are embarrassing yourself here.
    No, that is you
    You are being ridiculous.

    This is a photograph of a tweet.



    There is no date on it. It certainly cant be from today because They have has their Twitter account suspended since December.

    Ergo its either fake or has nothing to do with today’s events.

    It’s a completely separate issue to the article on their website which obviously does express displeasure with how the situation is being handled but you’re ruining your argument with this cretinous debate over a photo of a tweet from a racist bigot.
    That is absolutely a tweet and runs identical with the anti Sturgeon line on todays Wings website and runs absolutely in tandem with it despite your false and misleading attempts to deny it
    What part of “they’ve had their account suspended since December” do you not understand?
    What part of 'Wings Over Scotland is anti Sturgeon' do you not understand, I have posted evidence after evidence from twitter and their own website, the facts do not lie despite your refusal to accept them
    No-one is disputing that. I’m disputing that the racist bigot you posted as a source was using a photo of a tweet (from 5th December based on my research) to suggest that was the response to today’s events.

    It’s just misleading and instead of acknowledging that you’ve doubled down and its just weird and embarrassing.

    Proper corbynista-esque
    It is not misleading at all, it was a screenshot of the original tweet reinforcing the point WOS wants Sturgeon to go and today's website post just reinforces that despite your continual absurd previous attempts to deny it
  • justin124justin124 Posts: 11,527
    viewcode said:

    viewcode said:

    Here's a nasty thought. In 1964 there was an election and Labour won a majority of 4. In 1966 there was another election and Labour won a majority of 97. In 1970 they were expected to win but they actually lost, with Con getting a majority of 31. Why did the Conservatives win in 1970? Genuine question.

    Peter Bonetti.
    Naahhh. I've heard that rumour lots of times but just don't believe it. You don't overturn a 98 seat majority on a footy match
    By election losses had already reduced Labour's majority to circa 67 by early 1970.
  • OldKingColeOldKingCole Posts: 33,468
    EPG said:

    1970 was the most interesting election until 2017. The answer is essentially in two parts. First, it was the Powell election. A bit like Corbyn-Brexit in 2017, you could read into Heath-Powell whatever you liked. Some people thought they were voting Tory to send a message that they liked Powell, and they did not expect to end up instead supporting Heath with a big majority. Same way Corbyn was supported by a big seat gain. Second, and not unrelated, it was one of the first big breaches in the class voting system. It seems now like the start of the slow drift away from class and toward race / white racial consciousness as the main identity divide.

    I remember campaigning, for the Liberals, in 1970. It wasn't good for us, although we hoped to do better than we did. I don't, TBH, recall Powell as being important where we were. TBH, I don't recall the Labour campaign as being 'inspiring'. Nor were the Tories, but the idea of the EEC was, where I was, quite popular, apart from among elderly Non-Conformists (The Treaty of ROME!!).
    I don't recall any one big issue, TBH; one of those times when I wish I'd kept a diary!
  • GallowgateGallowgate Posts: 19,468
    HYUFD said:

    HYUFD said:

    HYUFD said:

    HYUFD said:

    HYUFD said:

    This is Wings comment on today's events, Sturgeon has no Plan, backing up the tweet.

    https://wingsoverscotland.com/there-is-no-plan/

    The presence of a blue tick is absolutely relevant as it confirms it as original despite your misleading and false attempts to deny it

    I’m sorry but you really are embarrassing yourself here.
    No, that is you
    You are being ridiculous.

    This is a photograph of a tweet.



    There is no date on it. It certainly cant be from today because They have has their Twitter account suspended since December.

    Ergo its either fake or has nothing to do with today’s events.

    It’s a completely separate issue to the article on their website which obviously does express displeasure with how the situation is being handled but you’re ruining your argument with this cretinous debate over a photo of a tweet from a racist bigot.
    That is absolutely a tweet and runs identical with the anti Sturgeon line on todays Wings website and runs absolutely in tandem with it despite your false and misleading attempts to deny it
    What part of “they’ve had their account suspended since December” do you not understand?
    What part of 'Wings Over Scotland is anti Sturgeon' do you not understand, I have posted evidence after evidence from twitter and their own website, the facts do not lie despite your refusal to accept them
    No-one is disputing that. I’m disputing that the racist bigot you posted as a source was using a photo of a tweet (from 5th December based on my research) to suggest that was the response to today’s events.

    It’s just misleading and instead of acknowledging that you’ve doubled down and its just weird and embarrassing.

    Proper corbynista-esque
    It is not misleading at all, it was a screenshot of the original tweet reinforcing the point WOS wants Sturgeon to go and today's website post just reinforces that despite your continual absurd previous attempts to deny it
    Why didn’t you just say that then rather than arguing when I pointed out that the tweet was either fake or from a while ago?
  • justin124 said:

    viewcode said:

    viewcode said:

    Here's a nasty thought. In 1964 there was an election and Labour won a majority of 4. In 1966 there was another election and Labour won a majority of 97. In 1970 they were expected to win but they actually lost, with Con getting a majority of 31. Why did the Conservatives win in 1970? Genuine question.

    Peter Bonetti.
    Naahhh. I've heard that rumour lots of times but just don't believe it. You don't overturn a 98 seat majority on a footy match
    By election losses had already reduced Labour's majority to circa 67 by early 1970.
    Which is an indication of how unpopular the Labour government had been after 1966.
  • AnabobazinaAnabobazina Posts: 23,486

    HYUFD said:

    HYUFD said:

    HYUFD said:

    HYUFD said:

    HYUFD said:

    This is Wings comment on today's events, Sturgeon has no Plan, backing up the tweet.

    https://wingsoverscotland.com/there-is-no-plan/

    The presence of a blue tick is absolutely relevant as it confirms it as original despite your misleading and false attempts to deny it

    I’m sorry but you really are embarrassing yourself here.
    No, that is you
    You are being ridiculous.

    This is a photograph of a tweet.



    There is no date on it. It certainly cant be from today because They have has their Twitter account suspended since December.

    Ergo its either fake or has nothing to do with today’s events.

    It’s a completely separate issue to the article on their website which obviously does express displeasure with how the situation is being handled but you’re ruining your argument with this cretinous debate over a photo of a tweet from a racist bigot.
    That is absolutely a tweet and runs identical with the anti Sturgeon line on todays Wings website and runs absolutely in tandem with it despite your false and misleading attempts to deny it
    What part of “they’ve had their account suspended since December” do you not understand?
    What part of 'Wings Over Scotland is anti Sturgeon' do you not understand, I have posted evidence after evidence from twitter and their own website, the facts do not lie despite your refusal to accept them
    No-one is disputing that. I’m disputing that the racist bigot you posted as a source was using a photo of a tweet (from 5th December based on my research) to suggest that was the response to today’s events.

    It’s just misleading and instead of acknowledging that you’ve doubled down and its just weird and embarrassing.

    Proper corbynista-esque
    It is not misleading at all, it was a screenshot of the original tweet reinforcing the point WOS wants Sturgeon to go and today's website post just reinforces that despite your continual absurd previous attempts to deny it
    Why didn’t you just say that then rather than arguing when I pointed out that the tweet was either fake or from a while ago?
    HYUFD never admits he is wrong. It’s one of the immutable laws of PB.
  • ydoethurydoethur Posts: 71,424

    ydoethur said:

    viewcode said:

    viewcode said:

    Here's a nasty thought. In 1964 there was an election and Labour won a majority of 4. In 1966 there was another election and Labour won a majority of 97. In 1970 they were expected to win but they actually lost, with Con getting a majority of 31. Why did the Conservatives win in 1970? Genuine question.

    Gordon Banks' tummy is the usual explanation.

    ETA iirc there was also a bad balance of trade figure announced just beforehand in the days when anyone cared.
    Yes, BBC TV would highlight the balance of payments figures every month like the temperature of a chronically-sick patient. Productivity was flagging and days lost through industrial unrest (the "British Disease") were mounting. Wilson and Castle tried to address the problem in a white paper, In Place of Strife which provoked widespread opposition in the wider Labour movement and may have contributed to a loss of support. Even so, the election result took everyone by surprise.

    https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/In_Place_of_Strife
    That's plausible. It can't be Vietnam, Powellism and Northern Ireland didn't get big until a few years later. I did think of proEuropeanism but again, that's a few years later. You're left with economic stuff.

    This is bugging me. I can come up with a plausible explanation for every election 1945 to 2019 except for 1970. Dammit... :(
    There was a suggestion Powellism led to higher than expected swings in the West Midlands, but it’s difficult to justify that on the data I’ve seen.

    The other factor to remember is that under Heath, du Cann and Barber the Tory party ran a very smart long term campaign. It identified swing voters in target seats and pursued them relentlessly for three years. As a result, it picked up the votes it needed to in the places it needed to without making a big national song and dance. This is one reason Labour didn’t notice they were losing out. They were, like Hilary Clinton and Theresa May, listening to all the wrong noises.
    Certainly a big swing in your part of the world in 1970:

    https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Cannock_(UK_Parliament_constituency)
    That was largely due to the personal unpopularity of Jennie Lee. She had not visited the constituency in a long time, and had set up the Open University, which was regarded with suspicion by the miners in Cannock as a potential rich man’s playground paid for with poor men‘s taxes.
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