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politicalbetting.com » Blog Archive » Brexit: it’s not going away

SystemSystem Posts: 12,170
edited January 2020 in General

imagepoliticalbetting.com » Blog Archive » Brexit: it’s not going away

Brexit seems destined to end with a whimper not a bang. Indeed, after the failure of Mark Francois’ attempt to have Big Ben ring out the moment, it won’t even end with a bong.

Read the full story here


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Comments

  • ClippPClippP Posts: 1,905
    edited January 2020
    First. And what a mess the Conservatives are making of everything!
  • CarlottaVanceCarlottaVance Posts: 60,216
    ClippP said:

    First. And what a mess the Conservatives are making of everything!

    Yeah - majority government - what a shocker!

    This isn't going away either:

    https://twitter.com/Andrew_Adonis/status/1215881863845351424?s=20
  • Gabs3Gabs3 Posts: 836
    The biggest problem the UK will have is that the EU will try to excessively link issues to their negotiating advantage: freedom of movement with recognition of trade qualifications, tariff free access with shared fisheries etc. Remainers will take the EU's side hurting the UK's negotiating position and also look to make an extension politically painful. And the Tories will react to that forced choice by choosing the more damaging "neither" rather than "both" option. We will end up having a deal just in goods and not services, which is where the EU has the advantage.
  • rcs1000rcs1000 Posts: 57,218
    Gabs3 said:

    The biggest problem the UK will have is that the EU will try to excessively link issues to their negotiating advantage: freedom of movement with recognition of trade qualifications, tariff free access with shared fisheries etc. Remainers will take the EU's side hurting the UK's negotiating position and also look to make an extension politically painful. And the Tories will react to that forced choice by choosing the more damaging "neither" rather than "both" option. We will end up having a deal just in goods and not services, which is where the EU has the advantage.

    Why is freedom of movement to the EUs advantage?
  • DecrepiterJohnLDecrepiterJohnL Posts: 27,938
    edited January 2020

    ClippP said:

    First. And what a mess the Conservatives are making of everything!

    Yeah - majority government - what a shocker!

    This isn't going away either:

    https://twitter.com/Andrew_Adonis/status/1215881863845351424?s=20
    Is there any risk for the government here? Based on his comments on Churchill and the abdication crisis, Boris will probably be inclined to let Harry and Meghan do whatever they like; more importantly, he probably will not think it very important.

    ETA I cannot see any great constitutional issues, although I've not been following the thing at all closely. A downturn in the national mood might not help but Boris will not be facing the electorate for a few years yet.
  • Gabs3 said:

    The biggest problem the UK will have is that the EU will try to excessively link issues to their negotiating advantage: freedom of movement with recognition of trade qualifications, tariff free access with shared fisheries etc. Remainers will take the EU's side hurting the UK's negotiating position and also look to make an extension politically painful. And the Tories will react to that forced choice by choosing the more damaging "neither" rather than "both" option. We will end up having a deal just in goods and not services, which is where the EU has the advantage.

    Probably but we were making the same point during Theresa May's hegemony. All political effort was directed to goods, where the EU has a surplus, at the expense of services, where we do. And fishing only mattered at all because Michael Gove blamed the EU for closing his family's business.
  • ydoethurydoethur Posts: 71,424
    https://www.twitter.com/HassanRouhani/status/1215856039997984768
    I’m trying to think of a stupid error Iran has avoided making in their response to the orangutan.

    I can’t.
  • NigelbNigelb Posts: 71,228
    rcs1000 said:

    Gabs3 said:

    The biggest problem the UK will have is that the EU will try to excessively link issues to their negotiating advantage: freedom of movement with recognition of trade qualifications, tariff free access with shared fisheries etc. Remainers will take the EU's side hurting the UK's negotiating position and also look to make an extension politically painful. And the Tories will react to that forced choice by choosing the more damaging "neither" rather than "both" option. We will end up having a deal just in goods and not services, which is where the EU has the advantage.

    Why is freedom of movement to the EUs advantage?
    It is, of course, of mutual advantage overall. It would not, however, be to the Tories’ political advantage.
  • Dura_AceDura_Ace Posts: 13,677

    ClippP said:

    First. And what a mess the Conservatives are making of everything!

    Yeah - majority government - what a shocker!

    This isn't going away either:

    https://twitter.com/Andrew_Adonis/status/1215881863845351424?s=20
    I wouldn't be massively surprised if the first ginger royal since Henry VIII ends up at Boeing. He'd be the world's best AH-64 salesman.
  • SandpitSandpit Posts: 54,623

    ClippP said:

    First. And what a mess the Conservatives are making of everything!

    Yeah - majority government - what a shocker!

    This isn't going away either:

    https://twitter.com/Andrew_Adonis/status/1215881863845351424?s=20
    American comedians discussing H&M. Not complimentary, but very funny and with more than a hint of truth to it.

    https://youtube.com/watch?v=jPki7mOCjZc
  • OldKingColeOldKingCole Posts: 33,468
    There was quite a flurry of activity on websites etc that I look at over the Erasmus+ project, most of which seemed to assume that Britain would be withdrawing from such projects, although as I read it, 'all' the Government was saying was that it wouldn't, at this stage be bound by law to participate.
    I find it difficult to believe that any British Government would be so isolationist, and I suspect that were that to be the case, then the sound and fury would build up again.
  • ydoethurydoethur Posts: 71,424
    Dura_Ace said:

    ClippP said:

    First. And what a mess the Conservatives are making of everything!

    Yeah - majority government - what a shocker!

    This isn't going away either:

    https://twitter.com/Andrew_Adonis/status/1215881863845351424?s=20
    I wouldn't be massively surprised if the first ginger royal since Henry VIII ends up at Boeing. He'd be the world's best AH-64 salesman.
    Why do you never see the same helicopter salesman twice?

    They all work on rotors.
  • CharlesCharles Posts: 35,758
    ydoethur said:

    https://www.twitter.com/HassanRouhani/status/1215856039997984768
    I’m trying to think of a stupid error Iran has avoided making in their response to the orangutan.

    I can’t.

    To be fair to them at least they admitted it once caught out
  • CharlesCharles Posts: 35,758
    rcs1000 said:

    Gabs3 said:

    The biggest problem the UK will have is that the EU will try to excessively link issues to their negotiating advantage: freedom of movement with recognition of trade qualifications, tariff free access with shared fisheries etc. Remainers will take the EU's side hurting the UK's negotiating position and also look to make an extension politically painful. And the Tories will react to that forced choice by choosing the more damaging "neither" rather than "both" option. We will end up having a deal just in goods and not services, which is where the EU has the advantage.

    Why is freedom of movement to the EUs advantage?
    Freedom of movement is not the same as a pre approved visa system

    I wish people would be precise

    I can quite see a deal coming with a fast track visa system and that would be a good thing. It is very unlikely to end up with freedom of movement
  • PulpstarPulpstar Posts: 78,210
    1-1 for accidentally downed passenger planes in the long running US- Iran spat then
  • SandpitSandpit Posts: 54,623
    Charles said:

    ydoethur said:

    https://www.twitter.com/HassanRouhani/status/1215856039997984768
    I’m trying to think of a stupid error Iran has avoided making in their response to the orangutan.

    I can’t.

    To be fair to them at least they admitted it once caught out
    Not that they would have had much choice once the CIA NTSB and Boeing turned up to look at the plane.
  • CharlesCharles Posts: 35,758
    Sandpit said:

    Charles said:

    ydoethur said:

    https://www.twitter.com/HassanRouhani/status/1215856039997984768
    I’m trying to think of a stupid error Iran has avoided making in their response to the orangutan.

    I can’t.

    To be fair to them at least they admitted it once caught out
    Not that they would have had much choice once the CIA NTSB and Boeing turned up to look at the plane.
    Clearing the debris and turning out the scavengers was a nice touch though
  • FoxyFoxy Posts: 48,720
    Pulpstar said:

    1-1 for accidentally downed passenger planes in the long running US- Iran spat then

    2 nil. The Iran one was on own goal.
  • AlistairAlistair Posts: 23,670
    Pulpstar said:

    1-1 for accidentally downed passenger planes in the long running US- Iran spat then

    Will Iran hand out medals for shooting down the passenger plane like the USA did?
  • ydoethurydoethur Posts: 71,424
    Charles said:

    ydoethur said:

    https://www.twitter.com/HassanRouhani/status/1215856039997984768
    I’m trying to think of a stupid error Iran has avoided making in their response to the orangutan.

    I can’t.

    To be fair to them at least they admitted it once caught out
    Not until they had spent several days and a lot of money trying to cover it up.

    If they had fessed up on the first day, I think people would have been appalled at the tragedy but inclined to blame the idiot who started the shooting.

    But as so often, the coverup is going to be what causes problems. Let’s consider the sequence of events:

    1) Lunatic in Washington carries out assassination of nasty man he does not like.

    2) In response, the outraged government of the target shoots missiles at US bases and achieves precisely bugger all.

    3) In the course of this, they shoot down an airliner owned by a neutral country, full of their own citizens.

    4) They deny all involvement, falsify flight records and paperwork, hide the black boxes and destroy the crash site so nobody can investigate.

    5) When it becomes clear that there is footage of a missile attack, and it is leaked to the West, they suddenly change their tune and say they will allow some access to the black boxes although they are so damaged there is likely no data.

    6) When it finally dawns on them that this in itself indicates something unusual had happened, and that nobody believes their denials for a second, they fess up and blame a junior operator whom they are now hinting they will have shot. They say it was a tragic mistake due to where the plane was flying, even though it was an airliner on a regular route and timeslot.

    Even Corbyn isn’t quite this incompetent. Heck, even Trump usually manages things slightly less bizarrely.

    The ayatollahs will not be convincing anyone they can be trusted with nukes, for starters.
  • FoxyFoxy Posts: 48,720
    ydoethur said:

    https://www.twitter.com/HassanRouhani/status/1215856039997984768
    I’m trying to think of a stupid error Iran has avoided making in their response to the orangutan.

    I can’t.

    They have been pretty astute in Iraq. The US are now occupiers, not allies of the Iraqi state. That is not likely to end well for the USA.


    https://twitter.com/AJEnglish/status/1215721458741235712?s=19
  • TheGreenMachineTheGreenMachine Posts: 1,088
    edited January 2020
    On topic : about title.

    Similar to the IRA.
  • squareroot2squareroot2 Posts: 6,729
    ClippP said:

    First. And what a mess the Conservatives are making of everything!

    Realky.... they havent done anything yet!
  • StuartDicksonStuartDickson Posts: 12,146

    ClippP said:

    First. And what a mess the Conservatives are making of everything!

    Yeah - majority government - what a shocker!

    This isn't going away either:

    https://twitter.com/Andrew_Adonis/status/1215881863845351424?s=20
    The new York coat of arms cannot be displayed on a family blog.
  • ClippP said:

    First. And what a mess the Conservatives are making of everything!

    Realky.... they havent done anything yet!
    That's the problem, lol.
  • squareroot2squareroot2 Posts: 6,729
    edited January 2020

    ClippP said:

    First. And what a mess the Conservatives are making of everything!

    Realky.... they havent done anything yet!
    That's the problem, lol.
    Lol indeed but the first hurdle is easy.. the problems come later. I think the Labour Party need VAR to help make ludicrous decisions...
  • Excellent article. It’s hard to see how this will not be the scenario. And what it also means is that Brexit will also be a big deal in 2021 and every year until a final FTA is agreed.

    One thing I don’t get, though: how will sequencing be avoided in the rush to cobble a deal together at the end of the year? Stuff will have to be prioritised and that will mean agreeing about what should be.
  • OldKingColeOldKingCole Posts: 33,468
    edited January 2020

    On topic : about title.

    Similar to the IRA.

    Very notable, I thought that the current deal in N I Ireland was a joint announcement by the British SoS and the Irish Deputy PM.
  • StuartDicksonStuartDickson Posts: 12,146

    ClippP said:

    First. And what a mess the Conservatives are making of everything!

    Yeah - majority government - what a shocker!

    This isn't going away either:

    https://twitter.com/Andrew_Adonis/status/1215881863845351424?s=20
    Is there any risk for the government here? Based on his comments on Churchill and the abdication crisis, Boris will probably be inclined to let Harry and Meghan do whatever they like; more importantly, he probably will not think it very important.

    ETA I cannot see any great constitutional issues, although I've not been following the thing at all closely. A downturn in the national mood might not help but Boris will not be facing the electorate for a few years yet.
    It’s a zeitgeist thing. People don’t mind rich, greedy people too much, as long as they are not too conspicuous. The planet is jam-packed full of such unpleasant types (just look at the sociopaths and narcissists running most major boardrooms).

    It is arguable that it was conspicuous consumerism that did for Thatcherism in the end. The eighties were a decade that forgot the values of good taste, tact and modesty.

    So,

    Rich + greedy = just about socially acceptable

    Rich + greedy + conspicuous = we’re going to do something about these horrible people

    Keep your heads down fat cats.
  • MarqueeMarkMarqueeMark Posts: 52,609
    ClippP said:

    First. And what a mess the Conservatives are making of everything!

    You are clearly losing sleep over it.....
  • ClippP said:

    First. And what a mess the Conservatives are making of everything!

    Realky.... they havent done anything yet!
    That's the problem, lol.
    Lol indeed but the first hurdle is easy.. the problems come later. I think the Labour Party need VAR to help make ludicrous decisions...
    Talking about VAR, anyone who backed a draw or both to score would be raging.

    *Sheffield Vs West Ham*
  • StuartDicksonStuartDickson Posts: 12,146
    rcs1000 said:

    Gabs3 said:

    The biggest problem the UK will have is that the EU will try to excessively link issues to their negotiating advantage: freedom of movement with recognition of trade qualifications, tariff free access with shared fisheries etc. Remainers will take the EU's side hurting the UK's negotiating position and also look to make an extension politically painful. And the Tories will react to that forced choice by choosing the more damaging "neither" rather than "both" option. We will end up having a deal just in goods and not services, which is where the EU has the advantage.

    Why is freedom of movement to the EUs advantage?
    That was my reaction too.

    Part of the problem with discourse in England is that many of you fail to understand what Brussels, Edinburgh, Dublin, Washington, Beijing etc really want. You guys build up a whole load of straw men that you then gaily rip apart. Meanwhile, back in the real world, English public life is dominated by own-goals, foot-shooting and unforced errors. You are dreadful negotiators, not just because you don’t understand what the other side really wants, but because you don’t even understand what you want yourselves.
  • NigelbNigelb Posts: 71,228

    ClippP said:

    First. And what a mess the Conservatives are making of everything!

    Realky.... they havent done anything yet!
    Precisely ! :smile:
  • squareroot2squareroot2 Posts: 6,729

    ClippP said:

    First. And what a mess the Conservatives are making of everything!

    Realky.... they havent done anything yet!
    That's the problem, lol.
    Lol indeed but the first hurdle is easy.. the problems come later. I think the Labour Party need VAR to help make ludicrous decisions...
    Talking about VAR, anyone who backed a draw or both to score would be raging.

    *Sheffield Vs West Ham*
    My mste is a Hammers fan and is spitting tacks about it
  • FoxyFoxy Posts: 48,720

    ClippP said:

    First. And what a mess the Conservatives are making of everything!

    Realky.... they havent done anything yet!
    That's the problem, lol.
    Lol indeed but the first hurdle is easy.. the problems come later. I think the Labour Party need VAR to help make ludicrous decisions...
    Talking about VAR, anyone who backed a draw or both to score would be raging.

    *Sheffield Vs West Ham*
    I am quite OK with VAR, and as a PL season ticket holder have seen it in action a fair bit first hand. Sure it does need a little fettling at the edges, but is is better than seeing a return of the egregious decisions on off-sides and penalties in the past.

    In football these things even out over the season. The only thing worse than VAR would be the end of VAR.
  • Dura_AceDura_Ace Posts: 13,677
    edited January 2020

    ClippP said:

    First. And what a mess the Conservatives are making of everything!

    Yeah - majority government - what a shocker!

    This isn't going away either:

    https://twitter.com/Andrew_Adonis/status/1215881863845351424?s=20
    The new York coat of arms cannot be displayed on a family blog.
    Sussex Blazon: three Instagram icons fesswise in pale for Supporters, dexter an Obama rampant gardant, sinister a Clooney Argent armed, crined and unguled
  • ClippP said:

    First. And what a mess the Conservatives are making of everything!

    Realky.... they havent done anything yet!
    That's the problem, lol.
    Lol indeed but the first hurdle is easy.. the problems come later. I think the Labour Party need VAR to help make ludicrous decisions...
    Talking about VAR, anyone who backed a draw or both to score would be raging.

    *Sheffield Vs West Ham*
    My mste is a Hammers fan and is spitting tacks about it
    I'm sure he is.
  • Foxy said:

    ClippP said:

    First. And what a mess the Conservatives are making of everything!

    Realky.... they havent done anything yet!
    That's the problem, lol.
    Lol indeed but the first hurdle is easy.. the problems come later. I think the Labour Party need VAR to help make ludicrous decisions...
    Talking about VAR, anyone who backed a draw or both to score would be raging.

    *Sheffield Vs West Ham*
    I am quite OK with VAR, and as a PL season ticket holder have seen it in action a fair bit first hand. Sure it does need a little fettling at the edges, but is is better than seeing a return of the egregious decisions on off-sides and penalties in the past.

    In football these things even out over the season. The only thing worse than VAR would be the end of VAR.
    Unfortunately, it slows the game, I'm not a fan.
  • SandpitSandpit Posts: 54,623
    Foxy said:

    ClippP said:

    First. And what a mess the Conservatives are making of everything!

    Realky.... they havent done anything yet!
    That's the problem, lol.
    Lol indeed but the first hurdle is easy.. the problems come later. I think the Labour Party need VAR to help make ludicrous decisions...
    Talking about VAR, anyone who backed a draw or both to score would be raging.

    *Sheffield Vs West Ham*
    I am quite OK with VAR, and as a PL season ticket holder have seen it in action a fair bit first hand. Sure it does need a little fettling at the edges, but is is better than seeing a return of the egregious decisions on off-sides and penalties in the past.

    In football these things even out over the season. The only thing worse than VAR would be the end of VAR.
    How does it work in relation to the crowd at the match, do they show it on the big screen as they do in rugby?
  • @Foxy

    It's needed in tennis and is only used 3-4 times in a 3-4 hour match, although there's some tennis matches where it's not used at all.
  • Morris_DancerMorris_Dancer Posts: 61,806
    Good morning, everyone.

    Not unexpected news, but the Sultan of Oman has died:
    https://www.bbc.co.uk/news/world-middle-east-50902476
  • mattmatt Posts: 3,789
    Sandpit said:

    Foxy said:

    ClippP said:

    First. And what a mess the Conservatives are making of everything!

    Realky.... they havent done anything yet!
    That's the problem, lol.
    Lol indeed but the first hurdle is easy.. the problems come later. I think the Labour Party need VAR to help make ludicrous decisions...
    Talking about VAR, anyone who backed a draw or both to score would be raging.

    *Sheffield Vs West Ham*
    I am quite OK with VAR, and as a PL season ticket holder have seen it in action a fair bit first hand. Sure it does need a little fettling at the edges, but is is better than seeing a return of the egregious decisions on off-sides and penalties in the past.

    In football these things even out over the season. The only thing worse than VAR would be the end of VAR.
    How does it work in relation to the crowd at the match, do they show it on the big screen as they do in rugby?
    No. The baseline assumption is that football fans are moronic thugs who will turn to spittle flecked rage and violence if they see it repeated. Which has some truth.
  • ydoethurydoethur Posts: 71,424

    Good morning, everyone.

    Not unexpected news, but the Sultan of Oman has died:
    https://www.bbc.co.uk/news/world-middle-east-50902476

    Will I be accused of tastelessness if I suggest Oman will not be gay this morning?

    More seriously, that is also the loss of one of the more potent points of stability in a very unstable region.
  • Good morning, everyone.

    Not unexpected news, but the Sultan of Oman has died:
    https://www.bbc.co.uk/news/world-middle-east-50902476

    Was he a nice guy?
  • Morris_DancerMorris_Dancer Posts: 61,806
    Mr. Machine, mostly. And Oman has been, as mentioned by Mr. Doethur, a stable nation in an unstable region.
  • CarlottaVanceCarlottaVance Posts: 60,216
    ydoethur said:

    Charles said:

    ydoethur said:

    https://www.twitter.com/HassanRouhani/status/1215856039997984768
    I’m trying to think of a stupid error Iran has avoided making in their response to the orangutan.

    I can’t.

    To be fair to them at least they admitted it once caught out
    4) They deny all involvement, falsify flight records and paperwork, hide the black boxes and destroy the crash site so nobody can investigate.
    The almost immediate (within an hour of the crash) announcement that it was caused by engine failure shows how quickly they knew they'd shot it down. If it had been engine failure it would have been the first such failure in decades to bring a plane down. Even on a Boeing.....
  • AlistairAlistair Posts: 23,670

    ClippP said:

    First. And what a mess the Conservatives are making of everything!

    Realky.... they havent done anything yet!
    That's the problem, lol.
    Lol indeed but the first hurdle is easy.. the problems come later. I think the Labour Party need VAR to help make ludicrous decisions...
    Talking about VAR, anyone who backed a draw or both to score would be raging.

    *Sheffield Vs West Ham*
    As a man with two Sheffield defenders in my team I was delighted.
  • SandpitSandpit Posts: 54,623
    edited January 2020

    Good morning, everyone.

    Not unexpected news, but the Sultan of Oman has died:
    https://www.bbc.co.uk/news/world-middle-east-50902476

    Was he a nice guy?
    With all that’s gone on in the Middle East in recent decades, he’s been completely neutral and as a result has a stable well-developed economy - even with a raging civil war next door in Yemen.
    Oman is a lovely place to visit.
  • Sandpit said:

    Good morning, everyone.

    Not unexpected news, but the Sultan of Oman has died:
    https://www.bbc.co.uk/news/world-middle-east-50902476

    Was he a nice guy?
    With all that’s gone on in the Middle East in recent decades, he’s been completely neutral and as a result has a stable well-developed economy. Oman is a lovely place to visit.
    He sounded like a legend.
  • Mr. Machine, mostly. And Oman has been, as mentioned by Mr. Doethur, a stable nation in an unstable region.

    He'll definitely go to heaven.
  • Alistair said:

    ClippP said:

    First. And what a mess the Conservatives are making of everything!

    Realky.... they havent done anything yet!
    That's the problem, lol.
    Lol indeed but the first hurdle is easy.. the problems come later. I think the Labour Party need VAR to help make ludicrous decisions...
    Talking about VAR, anyone who backed a draw or both to score would be raging.

    *Sheffield Vs West Ham*
    As a man with two Sheffield defenders in my team I was delighted.
    Indeed but both not to score is always more value as you have 0-0 playing for you.
  • Dura_AceDura_Ace Posts: 13,677
    edited January 2020

    Good morning, everyone.

    Not unexpected news, but the Sultan of Oman has died:
    https://www.bbc.co.uk/news/world-middle-east-50902476

    Was he a nice guy?
    If you were a handsome young man with a talent for music he could be a very nice guy. If you were a communist you could expect the car battery on the knackers treatment.

    Qaboos was probably Britain's last successful imperialist project. He was talked into deposing his old man and supported in the endeavour by MI6. He then repaid that debt of honour many times over by buying lots of military equipment that was both overpriced and of variable quality.
  • squareroot2squareroot2 Posts: 6,729
    Dura_Ace said:

    Good morning, everyone.

    Not unexpected news, but the Sultan of Oman has died:
    https://www.bbc.co.uk/news/world-middle-east-50902476

    Was he a nice guy?
    If you were a handsome young man with a talent for music he could be a very nice guy. If you were a communist you could expect the car battery on the knackers treatment.

    Qaboos was probably Britain's last successful imperialist project. He was talked into deposing his old man and supported in the endeavour by MI6. He then repaid that debt of honour many times over by buying lots of military equipment that was both overpriced and of variable quality.
    Perhaps the country would have been better served if mi6 had deposed corbyn?
  • Sandpit said:

    Good morning, everyone.

    Not unexpected news, but the Sultan of Oman has died:
    https://www.bbc.co.uk/news/world-middle-east-50902476

    Was he a nice guy?
    With all that’s gone on in the Middle East in recent decades, he’s been completely neutral and as a result has a stable well-developed economy. Oman is a lovely place to visit.
    He sounded like a legend.
    When you get people to name a county beginning with O - They insist there is not one pretty quickly and move on to P . err hang on a minute there is one! Oman is always destined to be one of those completely ignored countries because they are not big or bad and too far to go on holiday to. Any other countries/states /counties like this?

    I always forget about

    Gabon (when recalling countries in Africa)
    Belize in central america
    Oman in Asia
    Moldova in Europe
    Northamptonshire (when recalling counties )
    Wisconsin (usa states)
  • Morris_DancerMorris_Dancer Posts: 61,806
    Mr. Ace, you sound quite displeased with what happened. Contrasting the late Sultan with his father (his predecessor) or his nation with those around, things in Oman look rather better than most comparable nations.
  • Luckyguy1983Luckyguy1983 Posts: 28,484

    Sandpit said:

    Good morning, everyone.

    Not unexpected news, but the Sultan of Oman has died:
    https://www.bbc.co.uk/news/world-middle-east-50902476

    Was he a nice guy?
    With all that’s gone on in the Middle East in recent decades, he’s been completely neutral and as a result has a stable well-developed economy. Oman is a lovely place to visit.
    He sounded like a legend.
    When you get people to name a county beginning with O - They insist there is not one pretty quickly and move on to P . err hang on a minute there is one! Oman is always destined to be one of those completely ignored countries because they are not big or bad and too far to go on holiday to. Any other countries/states /counties like this?

    I always forget about

    Gabon (when recalling countries in Africa)
    Belize in central america
    Oman in Asia
    Moldova in Europe
    Northamptonshire (when recalling counties )
    Wisconsin (usa states)
    Butan.
  • Luckyguy1983Luckyguy1983 Posts: 28,484

    Sandpit said:

    Good morning, everyone.

    Not unexpected news, but the Sultan of Oman has died:
    https://www.bbc.co.uk/news/world-middle-east-50902476

    Was he a nice guy?
    With all that’s gone on in the Middle East in recent decades, he’s been completely neutral and as a result has a stable well-developed economy. Oman is a lovely place to visit.
    He sounded like a legend.
    When you get people to name a county beginning with O - They insist there is not one pretty quickly and move on to P . err hang on a minute there is one! Oman is always destined to be one of those completely ignored countries because they are not big or bad and too far to go on holiday to. Any other countries/states /counties like this?

    I always forget about

    Gabon (when recalling countries in Africa)
    Belize in central america
    Oman in Asia
    Moldova in Europe
    Northamptonshire (when recalling counties )
    Wisconsin (usa states)
    Butan.
    So forgettable I forgot how to spell it. Bhutan.
  • Sandpit said:

    Good morning, everyone.

    Not unexpected news, but the Sultan of Oman has died:
    https://www.bbc.co.uk/news/world-middle-east-50902476

    Was he a nice guy?
    With all that’s gone on in the Middle East in recent decades, he’s been completely neutral and as a result has a stable well-developed economy. Oman is a lovely place to visit.
    He sounded like a legend.
    When you get people to name a county beginning with O - They insist there is not one pretty quickly and move on to P . err hang on a minute there is one! Oman is always destined to be one of those completely ignored countries because they are not big or bad and too far to go on holiday to. Any other countries/states /counties like this?

    I always forget about

    Gabon (when recalling countries in Africa)
    Belize in central america
    Oman in Asia
    Moldova in Europe
    Northamptonshire (when recalling counties )
    Wisconsin (usa states)
    Lol @ Northamptonshire​.
  • FoxyFoxy Posts: 48,720
    Sandpit said:

    Foxy said:

    ClippP said:

    First. And what a mess the Conservatives are making of everything!

    Realky.... they havent done anything yet!
    That's the problem, lol.
    Lol indeed but the first hurdle is easy.. the problems come later. I think the Labour Party need VAR to help make ludicrous decisions...
    Talking about VAR, anyone who backed a draw or both to score would be raging.

    *Sheffield Vs West Ham*
    I am quite OK with VAR, and as a PL season ticket holder have seen it in action a fair bit first hand. Sure it does need a little fettling at the edges, but is is better than seeing a return of the egregious decisions on off-sides and penalties in the past.

    In football these things even out over the season. The only thing worse than VAR would be the end of VAR.
    How does it work in relation to the crowd at the match, do they show it on the big screen as they do in rugby?
    At the King Power, the referee holds his hand to his ear. The scoreboard shows "VAR, possible red card" "VAR possible offside" etc. The crowd either groans or cheers depending on which team is involved.

    When we beat Spurs 2:1, people focus on the Spurs goal that was disallowed as inches offside, but forget the goal by Ndidi disallowed a few minutes before, which was more clearly offside. Both would have been given as goals pre VAR.

    A goal disallowed by VAR does seem to affect a team rather like a missed penalty. The score doesn't change, but the team does go flat for five or more minutes. Sometimes that is enough for a goal to be scored the other way. That happened against Leicester in the Spurs game, and also at Anfield to Man City.

    It does need speeding up but is in principle the way forward.

    Incidentally for gamblers a disallowed goal for team A may mean that team B to score next becomes value for 10 min, but perhaps something that @isam would have better stats on.
  • Sunil_PrasannanSunil_Prasannan Posts: 51,880
    edited January 2020
    Dura_Ace said:

    ClippP said:

    First. And what a mess the Conservatives are making of everything!

    Yeah - majority government - what a shocker!

    This isn't going away either:

    https://twitter.com/Andrew_Adonis/status/1215881863845351424?s=20
    I wouldn't be massively surprised if the first ginger royal since Henry VIII ends up at Boeing. He'd be the world's best AH-64 salesman.
    737 MEG
  • Casino_RoyaleCasino_Royale Posts: 60,491
    If Sanders wins, Trump wins.

    It really is that simple.
  • FoxyFoxy Posts: 48,720

    Mr. Ace, you sound quite displeased with what happened. Contrasting the late Sultan with his father (his predecessor) or his nation with those around, things in Oman look rather better than most comparable nations.

    Oman is an interesting country and quite beautiful, but has been fortunate. The Omanis are mostly Ibadi, indeed are the only Ibadi majority country I think. This is a fairly benign sect, and neutral in the Salafist vs Shia feud. In addition Oman has enough oil to make the country prosperous without the excesses of the Gulf states and Saudi, and a relatively good distribution of income.
  • CarlottaVanceCarlottaVance Posts: 60,216
    edited January 2020
    Horsefeathers from Iran:

    Flight 3 of the Ukrainian Airlines departs from Imam Khomeini Airport and, while in rotation, is completely approaching a sensitive military center of the IRGC and at altitude and in form of a hostile flight. In these circumstances, the plane was accidentally hit by human error and unfortunately, which unfortunately results in the martyrdom of dear compatriots and the death of a number of foreign nationals.
    https://tinyurl.com/v9ayn9r

    https://twitter.com/flightradar24/status/1215889858302021633?s=20
  • isamisam Posts: 41,118
    edited January 2020
    Foxy said:

    Sandpit said:

    Foxy said:

    ClippP said:

    First. And what a mess the Conservatives are making of everything!

    Realky.... they havent done anything yet!
    That's the problem, lol.
    Lol indeed but the first hurdle is easy.. the problems come later. I think the Labour Party need VAR to help make ludicrous decisions...
    Talking about VAR, anyone who backed a draw or both to score would be raging.

    *Sheffield Vs West Ham*
    I am quite OK with VAR, and as a PL season ticket holder have seen it in action a fair bit first hand. Sure it does need a little fettling at the edges, but is is better than seeing a return of the egregious decisions on off-sides and penalties in the past.

    In football these things even out over the season. The only thing worse than VAR would be the end of VAR.
    How does it work in relation to the crowd at the match, do they show it on the big screen as they do in rugby?
    At the King Power, the referee holds his hand to his ear. The scoreboard shows "VAR, possible red card" "VAR possible offside" etc. The crowd either groans or cheers depending on which team is involved.

    When we beat Spurs 2:1, people focus on the Spurs goal that was disallowed as inches offside, but forget the goal by Ndidi disallowed a few minutes before, which was more clearly offside. Both would have been given as goals pre VAR.

    A goal disallowed by VAR does seem to affect a team rather like a missed penalty. The score doesn't change, but the team does go flat for five or more minutes. Sometimes that is enough for a goal to be scored the other way. That happened against Leicester in the Spurs game, and also at Anfield to Man City.

    It does need speeding up but is in principle the way forward.

    Incidentally for gamblers a disallowed goal for team A may mean that team B to score next becomes value for 10 min, but perhaps something that @isam would have better stats on.
    Football Stats analysts are incredibly smug, annoying, woke, left wing Americans. But they write some interesting stuff on football, and here is one about VAR

    https://statsbomb.com/2019/12/vartual-reality-why-offside-var-calls-feel-so-bad-even-though-they-havent-changed-the-game/
  • paulyork64paulyork64 Posts: 2,507

    Sandpit said:

    Good morning, everyone.

    Not unexpected news, but the Sultan of Oman has died:
    https://www.bbc.co.uk/news/world-middle-east-50902476

    Was he a nice guy?
    With all that’s gone on in the Middle East in recent decades, he’s been completely neutral and as a result has a stable well-developed economy. Oman is a lovely place to visit.
    He sounded like a legend.
    When you get people to name a county beginning with O - They insist there is not one pretty quickly and move on to P . err hang on a minute there is one! Oman is always destined to be one of those completely ignored countries because they are not big or bad and too far to go on holiday to. Any other countries/states /counties like this?

    I always forget about

    Gabon (when recalling countries in Africa)
    Belize in central america
    Oman in Asia
    Moldova in Europe
    Northamptonshire (when recalling counties )
    Wisconsin (usa states)
    Moldova is so forgettable at the ATP cup in Australia they played the Romanian national anthem for them.
  • Sandpit said:

    Good morning, everyone.

    Not unexpected news, but the Sultan of Oman has died:
    https://www.bbc.co.uk/news/world-middle-east-50902476

    Was he a nice guy?
    With all that’s gone on in the Middle East in recent decades, he’s been completely neutral and as a result has a stable well-developed economy. Oman is a lovely place to visit.
    He sounded like a legend.
    When you get people to name a county beginning with O - They insist there is not one pretty quickly and move on to P . err hang on a minute there is one! Oman is always destined to be one of those completely ignored countries because they are not big or bad and too far to go on holiday to. Any other countries/states /counties like this?

    I always forget about

    Gabon (when recalling countries in Africa)
    Belize in central america
    Oman in Asia
    Moldova in Europe
    Northamptonshire (when recalling counties )
    Wisconsin (usa states)
    Moldova is so forgettable at the ATP cup in Australia they played the Romanian national anthem for them.
    They're very close but where's Andorra?

    Similar flag but nearer to Spain?
  • kle4kle4 Posts: 96,153
    Charles said:

    ydoethur said:

    https://www.twitter.com/HassanRouhani/status/1215856039997984768
    I’m trying to think of a stupid error Iran has avoided making in their response to the orangutan.

    I can’t.

    To be fair to them at least they admitted it once caught out
    It's a rare act for a government even when caught dead to rights. They genuinely did not want to escalate things i presume, and this error forced them to de escalate in very public fashion it seems.
  • FoxyFoxy Posts: 48,720

    Sandpit said:

    Good morning, everyone.

    Not unexpected news, but the Sultan of Oman has died:
    https://www.bbc.co.uk/news/world-middle-east-50902476

    Was he a nice guy?
    With all that’s gone on in the Middle East in recent decades, he’s been completely neutral and as a result has a stable well-developed economy. Oman is a lovely place to visit.
    He sounded like a legend.
    When you get people to name a county beginning with O - They insist there is not one pretty quickly and move on to P . err hang on a minute there is one! Oman is always destined to be one of those completely ignored countries because they are not big or bad and too far to go on holiday to. Any other countries/states /counties like this?

    I always forget about

    Gabon (when recalling countries in Africa)
    Belize in central america
    Oman in Asia
    Moldova in Europe
    Northamptonshire (when recalling counties )
    Wisconsin (usa states)
    Moldova is so forgettable at the ATP cup in Australia they played the Romanian national anthem for them.
    To be fair, there is a strong feeling for merging with Romania in Moldova.
  • Dura_AceDura_Ace Posts: 13,677

    Sandpit said:

    Good morning, everyone.

    Not unexpected news, but the Sultan of Oman has died:
    https://www.bbc.co.uk/news/world-middle-east-50902476

    Was he a nice guy?
    With all that’s gone on in the Middle East in recent decades, he’s been completely neutral and as a result has a stable well-developed economy. Oman is a lovely place to visit.
    He sounded like a legend.
    When you get people to name a county beginning with O - They insist there is not one pretty quickly and move on to P . err hang on a minute there is one! Oman is always destined to be one of those completely ignored countries because they are not big or bad and too far to go on holiday to. Any other countries/states /counties like this?

    I always forget about

    Gabon (when recalling countries in Africa)
    Belize in central america
    Oman in Asia
    Moldova in Europe
    Northamptonshire (when recalling counties )
    Wisconsin (usa states)
    Moresnet.

    The only country that ever had Esperanto as its official language.
  • Good morning all and Happy New Year. There is only one reason why a comprehensive trade deal may not be concluded between the EU and UK by 31st December and that is because it is politicians who are driving the agenda. The directors of the world's largest private companies somehow manage to negotiate and execute the merger or takeover of other companies with turnover larger than the GDP of many countries within one year.

    The major difference now is that the EU economy is on its knees with Germany on the brink of recession and France at war with itself over Macron's pension and other reforms. The UK may have sluggish growth but it has growth and with every day that passes UK companies have pushed to export to non-EU markets more and more.

    If as seems likely Boris is going to pursue a major policy of huge infrastructural expansion outside the M25 then the rest of the UK will see an uptick in economic activity.

    We will also see how united the EU remains as each country decides how much it needs good trade terms with the UK and our millions of tourists and expats which are still the life blood of many EU members.
  • kle4kle4 Posts: 96,153
    edited January 2020
    I see theyve acknowledged they were wrong, but concluded it doesnt matter as they are totally right on everything else. Its what most of us do when wrong.
  • HYUFDHYUFD Posts: 123,148
    Boris will at minimum get a basic trade deal for goods, neither the EU or the UK want heavy tariffs and pure WTO terms next year. However as we are leaving the EU and single market and customs union there will not be time to get the full Canada ++ Deal within a year Boris ideally wants covering financial services etc as that would require longer to negotiate or more regulatory alignment than Boris is willing to give
  • ydoethurydoethur Posts: 71,424
    edited January 2020
    The reply aged better:
    https://twitter.com/olivervoel/status/1215769161579802626
    The current implication of that post if they shot it down deliberately....

    Edited - Reading this person’s further tweets, it turns out that was indeed what he meant. D’oh!
  • HYUFDHYUFD Posts: 123,148
    ydoethur said:

    https://www.twitter.com/HassanRouhani/status/1215856039997984768
    I’m trying to think of a stupid error Iran has avoided making in their response to the orangutan.

    I can’t.

    Tragic news but could not have turned out better for Trump as Iran will have to lie low now for the foreseeable future after this huge error
  • CharlesCharles Posts: 35,758

    ClippP said:

    First. And what a mess the Conservatives are making of everything!

    Yeah - majority government - what a shocker!

    This isn't going away either:

    https://twitter.com/Andrew_Adonis/status/1215881863845351424?s=20
    Is there any risk for the government here? Based on his comments on Churchill and the abdication crisis, Boris will probably be inclined to let Harry and Meghan do whatever they like; more importantly, he probably will not think it very important.

    ETA I cannot see any great constitutional issues, although I've not been following the thing at all closely. A downturn in the national mood might not help but Boris will not be facing the electorate for a few years yet.
    It’s a zeitgeist thing. People don’t mind rich, greedy people too much, as long as they are not too conspicuous. The planet is jam-packed full of such unpleasant types (just look at the sociopaths and narcissists running most major boardrooms).

    It is arguable that it was conspicuous consumerism that did for Thatcherism in the end. The eighties were a decade that forgot the values of good taste, tact and modesty.

    So,

    Rich + greedy = just about socially acceptable

    Rich + greedy + conspicuous = we’re going to do something about these horrible people

    Keep your heads down fat cats.
    That is exactly the way we’ve played it. Modest and inconspicuous in the main.
  • CarlottaVanceCarlottaVance Posts: 60,216
    ydoethur said:

    The reply aged better:
    https://twitter.com/olivervoel/status/1215769161579802626
    The current implication of that post if they shot it down deliberately....

    Edited - Reading this person’s further tweets, it turns out that was indeed what he meant. D’oh!
    He keeps digging!
    https://twitter.com/olivervoel/status/1215924146338762752?s=20
    https://twitter.com/pjk_software/status/1215927817243963393?s=20
  • CharlesCharles Posts: 35,758

    rcs1000 said:

    Gabs3 said:

    The biggest problem the UK will have is that the EU will try to excessively link issues to their negotiating advantage: freedom of movement with recognition of trade qualifications, tariff free access with shared fisheries etc. Remainers will take the EU's side hurting the UK's negotiating position and also look to make an extension politically painful. And the Tories will react to that forced choice by choosing the more damaging "neither" rather than "both" option. We will end up having a deal just in goods and not services, which is where the EU has the advantage.

    Why is freedom of movement to the EUs advantage?
    That was my reaction too.

    Part of the problem with discourse in England is that many of you fail to understand what Brussels, Edinburgh, Dublin, Washington, Beijing etc really want. You guys build up a whole load of straw men that you then gaily rip apart. Meanwhile, back in the real world, English public life is dominated by own-goals, foot-shooting and unforced errors. You are dreadful negotiators, not just because you don’t understand what the other side really wants, but because you don’t even understand what you want yourselves.
    I don’t think that’s quite it

    The difference is that the government and civil service leaks and obstructs, opposition politicians talk to the negotiators on the other side etc

    It’s all down to a lack of discipline

    If the government said what they wanted and let the negotiators get on with it, and the opposition waited until the deal was announced before trying to gain political advantage (vs actually trying to obstruct the sausage making process) and parliament stopped trying to do tge executives job it would be tolerably bad
  • ydoethurydoethur Posts: 71,424
    Charles said:

    ClippP said:

    First. And what a mess the Conservatives are making of everything!

    Yeah - majority government - what a shocker!

    This isn't going away either:

    https://twitter.com/Andrew_Adonis/status/1215881863845351424?s=20
    Is there any risk for the government here? Based on his comments on Churchill and the abdication crisis, Boris will probably be inclined to let Harry and Meghan do whatever they like; more importantly, he probably will not think it very important.

    ETA I cannot see any great constitutional issues, although I've not been following the thing at all closely. A downturn in the national mood might not help but Boris will not be facing the electorate for a few years yet.
    It’s a zeitgeist thing. People don’t mind rich, greedy people too much, as long as they are not too conspicuous. The planet is jam-packed full of such unpleasant types (just look at the sociopaths and narcissists running most major boardrooms).

    It is arguable that it was conspicuous consumerism that did for Thatcherism in the end. The eighties were a decade that forgot the values of good taste, tact and modesty.

    So,

    Rich + greedy = just about socially acceptable

    Rich + greedy + conspicuous = we’re going to do something about these horrible people

    Keep your heads down fat cats.
    That is exactly the way we’ve played it. Modest and inconspicuous in the main.
    Corbyn, on the other hand...
  • geoffwgeoffw Posts: 8,720
    Which is more scary - that it was accidental or deliberate?
  • squareroot2squareroot2 Posts: 6,729
    edited January 2020
    Can we use VAR to help decide if the Iranian missile was onside or offside?
  • CharlesCharles Posts: 35,758
    This is the plan... if Charles and Csmilla crash and burn, Harry and Meghan are untainted and can sweep in
  • HYUFDHYUFD Posts: 123,148
    Charles said:

    This is the plan... if Charles and Csmilla crash and burn, Harry and Meghan are untainted and can sweep in
    William and Kate poll far better than all 4 of them, indeed William even outpolls the Queen on that poll
  • geoffwgeoffw Posts: 8,720
    Pilger says that although he was wrong in fact he was right in truth. As always.
  • FoxyFoxy Posts: 48,720
    isam said:

    Foxy said:

    Sandpit said:

    Foxy said:

    ClippP said:

    First. And what a mess the Conservatives are making of everything!

    Realky.... they havent done anything yet!
    That's the problem, lol.
    Lol indeed but the first hurdle is easy.. the problems come later. I think the Labour Party need VAR to help make ludicrous decisions...
    Talking about VAR, anyone who backed a draw or both to score would be raging.

    *Sheffield Vs West Ham*
    I am quite OK with VAR, and as a PL season ticket holder have seen it in action a fair bit first hand. Sure it does need a little fettling at the edges, but is is better than seeing a return of the egregious decisions on off-sides and penalties in the past.

    In football these things even out over the season. The only thing worse than VAR would be the end of VAR.
    How does it work in relation to the crowd at the match, do they show it on the big screen as they do in rugby?
    At the King Power, the referee holds his hand to his ear. The scoreboard shows "VAR, possible red card" "VAR possible offside" etc. The crowd either groans or cheers depending on which team is involved.

    When we beat Spurs 2:1, people focus on the Spurs goal that was disallowed as inches offside, but forget the goal by Ndidi disallowed a few minutes before, which was more clearly offside. Both would have been given as goals pre VAR.

    A goal disallowed by VAR does seem to affect a team rather like a missed penalty. The score doesn't change, but the team does go flat for five or more minutes. Sometimes that is enough for a goal to be scored the other way. That happened against Leicester in the Spurs game, and also at Anfield to Man City.

    It does need speeding up but is in principle the way forward.

    Incidentally for gamblers a disallowed goal for team A may mean that team B to score next becomes value for 10 min, but perhaps something that @isam would have better stats on.
    Football Stats analysts are incredibly smug, annoying, woke, left wing Americans. But they write some interesting stuff on football, and here is one about VAR

    https://statsbomb.com/2019/12/vartual-reality-why-offside-var-calls-feel-so-bad-even-though-they-havent-changed-the-game/
    Well worth the read. Fewer off sides given is an interesting and plausible result. Possibly VAR actually results in more fast flowing football, albeit with pauses after goals instead.
  • SandpitSandpit Posts: 54,623
    geoffw said:

    Which is more scary - that it was accidental or deliberate?

    Way more scary if it were deliberate - targeting civilians would start a war very quickly.

    It’s way more likely to be a cockup than a conspiracy - someone forgot to tell the grunts operating the anti-aircraft system that the airport was open and to properly identify targets before pressing the big red button.
  • Casino_RoyaleCasino_Royale Posts: 60,491
    HYUFD said:

    Boris will at minimum get a basic trade deal for goods, neither the EU or the UK want heavy tariffs and pure WTO terms next year. However as we are leaving the EU and single market and customs union there will not be time to get the full Canada ++ Deal within a year Boris ideally wants covering financial services etc as that would require longer to negotiate or more regulatory alignment than Boris is willing to give

    Forget financial services.

    There should be zero concessions there. We need full control.

    Even Carney and the market sector itself is arguing for it.
  • nunu2nunu2 Posts: 1,453
    In 2024 The tories will claim Labour want to rejoin, and Labour being as stupid as they are will not deny this strong enough.

    Labour's Brexit betrayal will not be forgotten easily.
  • nunu2nunu2 Posts: 1,453
    Bernie would have beat Trump in 2016 but this time? His time has probably passed.
  • FoxyFoxy Posts: 48,720
    HYUFD said:

    Charles said:

    This is the plan... if Charles and Csmilla crash and burn, Harry and Meghan are untainted and can sweep in
    William and Kate poll far better than all 4 of them, indeed William even outpolls the Queen on that poll
    We like our Royals Nice but Dim, and opinion free.

    Babies, fashion and fluffy stuff, nothing else please.
  • rottenboroughrottenborough Posts: 62,767
    nunu2 said:

    Bernie would have beat Trump in 2016 but this time? His time has probably passed.

    I was laying Bernie last night. Hope I don't get burned by Dem primary voters.
  • CarlottaVanceCarlottaVance Posts: 60,216
    Used to visit this castle as a child when it was a ruin...

    https://twitter.com/AgentP22/status/1215938669359616006?s=20
  • AlistairAlistair Posts: 23,670
    HYUFD said:

    Boris will at minimum get a basic trade deal for goods, neither the EU or the UK want heavy tariffs and pure WTO terms next year. However as we are leaving the EU and single market and customs union there will not be time to get the full Canada ++ Deal within a year Boris ideally wants covering financial services etc as that would require longer to negotiate or more regulatory alignment than Boris is willing to give

    Mate, Boris said there would be no border down the Irish Sea and then promptly negotiated a deal with a border down the Irish Sea.

    He's willing to give quite a lot.
  • TheScreamingEaglesTheScreamingEagles Posts: 119,678
    edited January 2020
    Alistair said:

    HYUFD said:

    Boris will at minimum get a basic trade deal for goods, neither the EU or the UK want heavy tariffs and pure WTO terms next year. However as we are leaving the EU and single market and customs union there will not be time to get the full Canada ++ Deal within a year Boris ideally wants covering financial services etc as that would require longer to negotiate or more regulatory alignment than Boris is willing to give

    Mate, Boris said there would be no border down the Irish Sea and then promptly negotiated a deal with a border down the Irish Sea.

    He's willing to give quite a lot.
    Narrator: Boris Johnson did more for Irish reunification than the IRA loving Jeremy Corbyn ever did.
  • FF43FF43 Posts: 17,208
    I don't understand Johnson's negotiating objectives.

    His priority appears to be the ability to diverge. But you don't negotiate divergence; it's what you have if you don't agree.

    By implication, Johnson doesn't want No Deal, which is a double negative and meaningless as a negotiating objectives.

    I guess he will take what he can get, consistent with diverge-ability. Which won't be a lot, I suspect. Sounds like a recipe for longish term uncertainty.
  • QuincelQuincel Posts: 4,042

    nunu2 said:

    Bernie would have beat Trump in 2016 but this time? His time has probably passed.

    I was laying Bernie last night. Hope I don't get burned by Dem primary voters.
    I didn't have the guts but he's too short now. Tied with Biden on Betfair is just wrong. Roughly evens to win Iowa is too short too. His lead is small and the polls are volatile.
  • CyclefreeCyclefree Posts: 25,318
    Boris’s first test will be whether he agrees to the EU’s demands in sequencing and, specifically, the EU’s demands to come to an agreement on fishing before anything else.

    He should not. Control the process and you go a long way to controlling the outcome.

    So let’s see.
This discussion has been closed.