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politicalbetting.com » Blog Archive » 2019 – The year of blessings in disguise?

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  • kinabalukinabalu Posts: 42,231
    EPG said:

    There's a price to pay for winning through relentless demonisation and bridge-burning.

    There is. But it's often paid by the wrong people.
  • QuincelQuincel Posts: 4,042
    Nandy is steaming out on BF in resposne to this poll, which I guess makes sense. Starmer in, RLB out. Interestingly Phillips is slightly out too.
  • WhisperingOracleWhisperingOracle Posts: 9,167
    edited January 2020
    TGOHF666 said:

    When does the lefty backlash on Starmer start ?

    Only from the most ultra of the Corbynites, I would expect. He occupies a similar, soft-left, but not Blairite position, to Ed Miliband.
  • MikeLMikeL Posts: 7,710
    YOUGOV POLL OF LAB MEMBERS:

    FINAL ROUND AFTER EVERYONE ELSE KNOCKED OUT:

    Starmer 61
    Long-Bailey 39
  • Interesting that the final Starmer v Long Bailey result is pretty much what Corbyn v Smith was.
  • kinabalukinabalu Posts: 42,231

    'Moderates' on over half of the vote there.

    Yes, the "Project" is over. Back to moderation / timidity (delete to taste).

    I do think some of the radical edge on policy will survive though. Hopefully in a less 1970s wrapper.
  • Worth saying again - much of Corbyn’s support was personal, not political. Labour members liked him as an individual, while leaders always get a lot of loyalty.
  • MikeLMikeL Posts: 7,710
    Massive Betfair move:

    Starmer 1.73 (was approx. 2.8)
    RLB 4.7 (was approx. 3.7)
    Nandy 15.5 (was 10)
    Cooper 19
    Phillips 20
  • kinabalukinabalu Posts: 42,231
    Wow. Imagine his price if he was a woman!
  • TGOHF666TGOHF666 Posts: 2,052
    Quincel said:

    Nandy is steaming out on BF in resposne to this poll, which I guess makes sense. Starmer in, RLB out. Interestingly Phillips is slightly out too.

    What price was Corbyn 4 weeks after Ed quit ?
  • QuincelQuincel Posts: 4,042
    TGOHF666 said:

    Quincel said:

    Nandy is steaming out on BF in resposne to this poll, which I guess makes sense. Starmer in, RLB out. Interestingly Phillips is slightly out too.

    What price was Corbyn 4 weeks after Ed quit ?
    Probably still 100/1 until at least the MPs ballot closed. But the fact that huge changes sometimes happen doesn't mean they will every time. All else being equal you'd rather start at the top than the bottom.
  • TGOHF666TGOHF666 Posts: 2,052
    Def time to lay Sturmer.
  • geoffwgeoffw Posts: 8,720
    kinabalu said:

    Wow. Imagine his price if he was a woman!

    Can't he self-declare?

  • NickPalmerNickPalmer Posts: 21,533

    Worth saying again - much of Corbyn’s support was personal, not political. Labour members liked him as an individual, while leaders always get a lot of loyalty.

    Exactly.
  • MikeLMikeL Posts: 7,710
    Direction of travel is key.

    Remember RLB was odds on just after the GE.

    It's obvious there are big question marks about her amongst Corbynites.

    But their dilemma is whether it's worth switching to someone else - and the problem they have is there is no hard left candidate who has the necessary personal qualities to win that Corbyn had.

    I think the only person who could do it is McDonnell - if they can't get him to change his mind then they've probably lost the leadership.
  • mwadamsmwadams Posts: 3,597
    edited January 2020
    rcs1000 said:

    If the right to catch fish in British waters is a glittering enough prize to other countries that it is worth abandoning a trade agreement for, I fail to see how the best thing a hapless British fisherman could do with that right is sell it. The proverb about giving a man a fish seems apt here.

    Whether those big companies you mention end up owning a big piece of the British fishing industry, is not my area of expertise. It would not be unlike the Scotch whisky industry if that were the case. At least the people who caught and processed the fish would be employed in the UK.

    So your priority is to maximise employment in the British fishing and processing industry. That's a comprehensible goal.

    But again, it's not that simple. To go back to my original example (six or so posts ago...) Imagine that my British fisherman doesn't own a boat, but leases it from a Spanish company. Not complicated. What if it's a "wet lease" where he's renting it with a (foreign) crew? Now he's just a British owner of a quota using a foreign vessel to do the fishing for him. We could ban these kind of things. And we could insist on all fish caught in British waters being landed at British ports. And being processed in the UK. But if we do that, then we're raising the costs of British fish, because we're restricting how they're treated. Are we going to compensate for this by imposing tariffs on fish coming in from other parts of the world?
    The wrinkle here is that we export and import different types of fish, so the tariffs may not be necessary.

    I also suspect that our negotiators won't care all that much, beyond its function as a chip on the table.
  • MikeLMikeL Posts: 7,710
    edited January 2020
    Nandy price now collapsed all the way to 29.
  • PulpstarPulpstar Posts: 78,212
    kinabalu said:


    Yes, the "Project" is over. Back to moderation / timidity (delete to taste).

    It'll be back after Sturmer gets tonked in 2024.
  • NickPalmerNickPalmer Posts: 21,533
    kinabalu said:

    'Moderates' on over half of the vote there.

    Yes, the "Project" is over. Back to moderation / timidity (delete to taste).

    I do think some of the radical edge on policy will survive though. Hopefully in a less 1970s wrapper.
    Yes, I think so - Starmer's first pitch was spot on for us lefties.
  • That poll may well increase the likelihood of Rayner going for the leadership.
  • TGOHF666TGOHF666 Posts: 2,052
    1.64 - could it be a coronation?

  • TGOHF666TGOHF666 Posts: 2,052

    That poll may well increase the likelihood of Rayner going for the leadership.

    Or nobody standing bar KS..
  • NEW THREAD

  • viewcodeviewcode Posts: 22,127

    Foxy said:

    geoffw said:

    Foxy said:

    geoffw said:

    Foxy said:

    Rachel Wolf (Boris adviser) has an article in the Telegraph about what BoJo and Dom have planned for the Civil Service. Seems to be regular exams to test competence, more STEM Grads (17% at present) and no job hopping every 18 months to avoid being held to account (if the task is FUBAR it is "there is the door time.")

    So, a politicised Civil Service to go with a politicised judiciary. After all it works so well in the USA.
    How is insisting on competence politicising the civil service?

    It all depends on how you define and assess competence. If that means following the party line then it is politicisation. If telling the minister that their plans are based on errors means the sack, then ditto.

    It is all part of the apparatus of an authoritarian state, and disregard of British tradition and practice.
    So no grounds for the assertion of politicising the civil service.

    If politicians get to decide who to hire and fire as Civil Servants, then it is politicised. Ditto Judges.

    Tories would be unwise to set precedents that they wouldn't want an opposition leader to similarly exercise.
    Do you seriously believe that McDonnell, Milne, and Lansman wouldn't have politicised the CS in ten seconds flat if they managed to seize power, precedent or no precedent? Better to get there first, in my view.
    Conversely you might, y'know, just...not do that. See that bad thing that somebody bad wants to do? Well, that's not an excuse to do it first. It's a reason to not do it.
  • kinabalukinabalu Posts: 42,231
    Pulpstar said:

    It'll be back after Sturmer gets tonked in 2024.

    Or "Kommie Kier" as he will no doubt soon be known in the press.
  • NickPalmerNickPalmer Posts: 21,533
    MikeL said:

    Direction of travel is key.

    Remember RLB was odds on just after the GE.

    It's obvious there are big question marks about her amongst Corbynites.

    But their dilemma is whether it's worth switching to someone else - and the problem they have is there is no hard left candidate who has the necessary personal qualities to win that Corbyn had.

    I think the only person who could do it is McDonnell - if they can't get him to change his mind then they've probably lost the leadership.

    There's a tendency in all losing parties to go for the opposite of what one had before. We lost with a fiery radical? Time for sober competence. McDonnell would have been interesting - a leftie with a competent manner - but I think he genuinely doesn't want it, and might not fit the current mood.

    I don't think Starmer quite has it in the bag yet - he needs to be tested in the campaign, and no doubt there's some media story that he was once seen chatting with Pol Pot or something. But it's probably his to lose.
  • kinabalukinabalu Posts: 42,231

    Yes, I think so - Starmer's first pitch was spot on for us lefties.

    What about Yvette? Also soft left plus 'quiet competence' aura like SKS but a woman too.
  • kinabalukinabalu Posts: 42,231
    MikeL said:

    Direction of travel is key.

    Remember RLB was odds on just after the GE.

    It's obvious there are big question marks about her amongst Corbynites.

    But their dilemma is whether it's worth switching to someone else - and the problem they have is there is no hard left candidate who has the necessary personal qualities to win that Corbyn had.

    I think the only person who could do it is McDonnell - if they can't get him to change his mind then they've probably lost the leadership.

    Tell Laura we love her. Tell Laura we need her.
  • AlistairAlistair Posts: 23,670
    Well fuck, I had a positive Cashout value on this market this morning, came within a couple of seconds of pushing the button and did not.


  • kinabalukinabalu Posts: 42,231
    geoffw said:

    Can't he self-declare?

    Yes - but the timing would look fishy to say the least.
  • PulpstarPulpstar Posts: 78,212
    Starmer is 7-4 at Ladbrokes right now ^_^;;
  • NickPalmerNickPalmer Posts: 21,533
    kinabalu said:

    Yes, I think so - Starmer's first pitch was spot on for us lefties.

    What about Yvette? Also soft left plus 'quiet competence' aura like SKS but a woman too.
    I think she runs into the "last generation" thing - I like her quite well, but she's been around a very long time now.
  • PulpstarPulpstar Posts: 78,212
    Pulpstar said:

    Starmer is 7-4 at Ladbrokes right now ^_^;;

    WAS. Now 4-6.
  • squareroot2squareroot2 Posts: 6,729

    MikeL said:

    Direction of travel is key.

    Remember RLB was odds on just after the GE.

    It's obvious there are big question marks about her amongst Corbynites.

    But their dilemma is whether it's worth switching to someone else - and the problem they have is there is no hard left candidate who has the necessary personal qualities to win that Corbyn had.

    I think the only person who could do it is McDonnell - if they can't get him to change his mind then they've probably lost the leadership.

    There's a tendency in all losing parties to go for the opposite of what one had before. We lost with a fiery radical? Time for sober competence. McDonnell would have been interesting - a leftie with a competent manner - but I think he genuinely doesn't want it, and might not fit the current mood.

    I don't think Starmer quite has it in the bag yet - he needs to be tested in the campaign, and no doubt there's some media story that he was once seen chatting with Pol Pot or something. But it's probably his to lose.
    NO You lost with Corbyn, someone totally unsuited to be Prime Minister, who was accompanied by some serious nasty people like Milne and McDonnell (lets not forget his video of wanting to seize the levers of power by force) with a set of policies that were completely unworkable and without the funds to do it. Corbyn was absolutely loathed on the doorstep.
    "Fiery Radical" is just a euphemism to cover up for was really on offer,
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