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  • Luckyguy1983Luckyguy1983 Posts: 28,484
    MaxPB said:

    I see India is tearing up its constitutional norms.

    https://twitter.com/thetimes/status/1210959838219509761

    Pakistan's Army have never taken control of Pakistan?
    Irrelevant.

    But you keep on defending the cow bothering nationalists.
    How is it irrelevant, anyway, the law pertains to giving a pathway for victims of religious persecution in Muslim countries. The Muslim countries around India should fix their own house then India wouldn't have to offer minorities escaping religious persecution in them citizenship in a safe country. Jews, Christians, Buddhists and others are persecuted and murdered everyday in Pakistan, Afghanistan and Bangladesh. India is doing the right thing, however you want to look at it.
    Correct, but since presumably persecution must be established, surely banning Muslims as an entire category is unnecessary.
  • kle4kle4 Posts: 96,153
    edited December 2019

    kle4 said:

    I see India is tearing up its constitutional norms.

    https://twitter.com/thetimes/status/1210959838219509761

    Pakistan's Army have never taken control of Pakistan?
    What does a comparison with another state have to do with whether the historic position of the Indian state is changing in some way?
    How does the head of the Indian Army commenting on the riots equal a military coup?
    I believe the phrase employed at the start of this discussion was that India was 'tearing up its constitutional norms', to which you were the one who decided to bring up the matter of military takeovers. So perhaps you should ask that question of yourself since you were the only one who seems to have equated a constitutional norm allegedly being eroded - which can cover a very wide selection of actions - to a military takeover.

    I don't quite follow how you can introduce the extreme interpretation via a spurious comparison, and then seek to dismiss that extreme interpretation as well.
  • kle4 said:

    kle4 said:

    I see India is tearing up its constitutional norms.

    https://twitter.com/thetimes/status/1210959838219509761

    Pakistan's Army have never taken control of Pakistan?
    What does a comparison with another state have to do with whether the historic position of the Indian state is changing in some way?
    How does the head of the Indian Army commenting on the riots equal a military coup?
    I believe the phrase employed at the start of this discussion was that India was 'tearing up its constitutional norms', to which you were the one who decided to bring up the matter of military takeovers. So perhaps you should ask that question of yourself since you were the only one who seems to have equated a constitutional norm allegedly being eroded - which can cover a very wide selection of actions - to a military takeover.

    I don't quite follow how you can introduce the extreme interpretation via a spurious comparison, and then seek to dismiss that extreme interpretation as well.
    I believe it was the article, as you say, which claimed that "India is tearing up its constitutional norms".
  • rcs1000rcs1000 Posts: 57,228

    I will be performing a server migration (and probably upgrading the site to https) over the next 48 hours. Expect downtime.

  • SandpitSandpit Posts: 54,627
    rcs1000 said:

    I will be performing a server migration (and probably upgrading the site to https) over the next 48 hours. Expect downtime.

    Good luck Robert!
  • ydoethurydoethur Posts: 71,424
    rcs1000 said:

    I will be performing a server migration (and probably upgrading the site to https) over the next 48 hours. Expect downtime.

    Has anyone asked Baroness Hale if this is lawful?
  • ydoethur said:

    IshmaelZ said:

    ydoethur said:

    It occurred to me, after commenting above, to wonder how many DPPs have come out of office unscathed. So I ran the rule back over a few:

    Current incumbent - no need to elaborate.
    Ken MacDonald - repaired his image at the end with his attacks on Tony Blair’s nutty counterterrorism proposals, but was dogged by allegations of corruption throughout his tenure.
    David Calvert-Smith - Damilola Taylor (nuff said)
    Barbara Mills - Stephen Lawrence (also nuff said)
    Allan Green - not only oversaw a series of catastrophes involving Northern Ireland, but was arrested for kerb crawling causing his wife to kill herself.

    So I think either we have been quite amazingly unlucky with our choice of DPPs, or there is something in the office that makes it pretty well unmanageable even for highly intelligent, experienced and successful people.

    In which case Starmer deserves some credit for being one of the least spattered with the soft and squishy.

    I think you should add Sir Tony Hetherington to your list, it really does make Sir Keir look very impressive.
    Starmer held a high profile press conference to announce the decision to prosecute Huhne - quite unnecessary and so prejudicial, you would think it would render a subsequent conviction unsafe. I have thought him a complete tunc ever since.
    And he appeared to be taking orders from Watson over historic CSA claims.

    And yet he’s still a beacon compared to the rest...
    Public support for the case was increased by the influence of Labour politician Tom Watson, the future deputy leader, who had become a strong campaign supporter for investigations into historic abuse. Watson had met with [Carl] Beech prior to the start of the operation in regards to his story on Exparo, and remained in touch with him as the operation began, lodging his support of his allegations by accusing those named; when interviewed about the matter, Watson publicly spoke out against Lord Brittan, one of the accused, as being "close to evil" based on Beech's accounts.

    https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Operation_Midland#Assessment_of_Beech_allegations
  • Oh bugger, I've got a thread about AV and Hawaiian pizzas going up in the next 48 hours, I hope Robert's server upgrade doesn't lose that thread.
  • MaxPB said:

    MaxPB said:

    Sandpit said:

    I see India is tearing up its constitutional norms.

    https://twitter.com/thetimes/status/1210959838219509761

    Pakistan's Army have never taken control of Pakistan?
    Can you explain the Indian Citizenship Law in simple terms? I know loads of people really excited about it on both sides, but can’t work out why!
    India is offering a pathway to citizenship for illegal immigrants who face religious persecution in neighbouring states. It just so happens that these neighbouring states are all Muslim and persecute non-Muslims. It's been a long time coming tbh, someone in South Asia needed to stand up for minorities in Muslim countries and I'm glad it's India.
    You mean like the Rohingya?
    That's Bangladesh's problem, not India's.
    OTOH, the Rohingya are ethnically South Asian (and their language is related to Bengali), so, for the record, I think they SHOULD be covered by the new Indian Citizenship.
  • kle4kle4 Posts: 96,153
    edited December 2019

    kle4 said:

    kle4 said:

    I see India is tearing up its constitutional norms.

    https://twitter.com/thetimes/status/1210959838219509761

    Pakistan's Army have never taken control of Pakistan?
    What does a comparison with another state have to do with whether the historic position of the Indian state is changing in some way?
    How does the head of the Indian Army commenting on the riots equal a military coup?
    I believe the phrase employed at the start of this discussion was that India was 'tearing up its constitutional norms', to which you were the one who decided to bring up the matter of military takeovers. So perhaps you should ask that question of yourself since you were the only one who seems to have equated a constitutional norm allegedly being eroded - which can cover a very wide selection of actions - to a military takeover.

    I don't quite follow how you can introduce the extreme interpretation via a spurious comparison, and then seek to dismiss that extreme interpretation as well.
    I believe it was the article, as you say, which claimed that "India is tearing up its constitutional norms".
    Right. And you were the one who in response brought up the Pakistani militarys prediliction for taking over its country. You brought into this discussion that element, and you in response to several people have equated that phrase as if people who used it in this discussion solely mean military coups.

    Let us be even blunter - you asked, several times, how the head of the Indian Army commenting on the riots equaled a military coup, and I quote that verbatim. But so far you are the only one who has made that comparison, so why are you asking that question of those who have not?

    Are you doubling down on the implication that the phrase 'tearing up its constitutional norms' means being akin to a military coup? Because that is what your question suggests. Unless you are being deliberately obtuse I can only conclude you yourself actually think his actions equal a military coup, and I would think we would all agree that would be pretty silly.

    You are making an absurd comparison then claiming you did not make it. I'd understand it more if you went HYUFD and just double downed.
  • ydoethurydoethur Posts: 71,424

    Oh bugger, I've got a thread about AV and Hawaiian pizzas going up in the next 48 hours, I hope Robert's server upgrade doesn't lose that thread.

    At least it’s not comparing Labour to The Last Jedi.

    Although an excellent thread header could be written on those lines...
  • NigelbNigelb Posts: 71,236
    kle4 said:

    kle4 said:

    I see India is tearing up its constitutional norms.

    https://twitter.com/thetimes/status/1210959838219509761

    Pakistan's Army have never taken control of Pakistan?
    What does a comparison with another state have to do with whether the historic position of the Indian state is changing in some way?
    How does the head of the Indian Army commenting on the riots equal a military coup?
    I believe the phrase employed at the start of this discussion was that India was 'tearing up its constitutional norms', to which you were the one who decided to bring up the matter of military takeovers. So perhaps you should ask that question of yourself since you were the only one who seems to have equated a constitutional norm allegedly being eroded - which can cover a very wide selection of actions - to a military takeover.

    I don't quite follow how you can introduce the extreme interpretation via a spurious comparison, and then seek to dismiss that extreme interpretation as well.
    And actually they’re constitutional laws, think. Not norms.
  • rcs1000 said:

    I will be performing a server migration (and probably upgrading the site to https) over the next 48 hours. Expect downtime.

    Goodbye PB? :lol:
  • kle4kle4 Posts: 96,153
    edited December 2019
    Nigelb said:

    kle4 said:

    kle4 said:

    I see India is tearing up its constitutional norms.

    https://twitter.com/thetimes/status/1210959838219509761

    Pakistan's Army have never taken control of Pakistan?
    What does a comparison with another state have to do with whether the historic position of the Indian state is changing in some way?
    How does the head of the Indian Army commenting on the riots equal a military coup?
    I believe the phrase employed at the start of this discussion was that India was 'tearing up its constitutional norms', to which you were the one who decided to bring up the matter of military takeovers. So perhaps you should ask that question of yourself since you were the only one who seems to have equated a constitutional norm allegedly being eroded - which can cover a very wide selection of actions - to a military takeover.

    I don't quite follow how you can introduce the extreme interpretation via a spurious comparison, and then seek to dismiss that extreme interpretation as well.
    And actually they’re constitutional laws, think. Not norms.
    If you say so, but the context of the discussion was via use of 'norms' rather than laws, since that was TSE's comment, but it would make a breach even more egregious.
  • kle4 said:

    kle4 said:

    kle4 said:

    I see India is tearing up its constitutional norms.

    https://twitter.com/thetimes/status/1210959838219509761

    Pakistan's Army have never taken control of Pakistan?
    What does a comparison with another state have to do with whether the historic position of the Indian state is changing in some way?
    How does the head of the Indian Army commenting on the riots equal a military coup?
    I believe the phrase employed at the start of this discussion was that India was 'tearing up its constitutional norms', to which you were the one who decided to bring up the matter of military takeovers. So perhaps you should ask that question of yourself since you were the only one who seems to have equated a constitutional norm allegedly being eroded - which can cover a very wide selection of actions - to a military takeover.

    I don't quite follow how you can introduce the extreme interpretation via a spurious comparison, and then seek to dismiss that extreme interpretation as well.
    I believe it was the article, as you say, which claimed that "India is tearing up its constitutional norms".
    Right. And you were the one who in response brought up the Pakistani militarys prediliction for taking over its country. You brought into this discussion that element, and you in response to several people have equated that phrase as if people who used it in this discussion solely mean military coups.

    Sir Mike Jackson publicly commented on the following while he was still Chief of the General Staff:

    Known for speaking his mind, Jackson attracted media attention towards the end of his tenure as CGS in 2006, when he criticised Norman Kember for Kember's apparent lack of gratitude to the soldiers who freed him from Iraqi kidnappers.
  • NigelbNigelb Posts: 71,236
    kle4 said:

    Nigelb said:

    kle4 said:

    kle4 said:

    I see India is tearing up its constitutional norms.

    https://twitter.com/thetimes/status/1210959838219509761

    Pakistan's Army have never taken control of Pakistan?
    What does a comparison with another state have to do with whether the historic position of the Indian state is changing in some way?
    How does the head of the Indian Army commenting on the riots equal a military coup?
    I believe the phrase employed at the start of this discussion was that India was 'tearing up its constitutional norms', to which you were the one who decided to bring up the matter of military takeovers. So perhaps you should ask that question of yourself since you were the only one who seems to have equated a constitutional norm allegedly being eroded - which can cover a very wide selection of actions - to a military takeover.

    I don't quite follow how you can introduce the extreme interpretation via a spurious comparison, and then seek to dismiss that extreme interpretation as well.
    And actually they’re constitutional laws, think. Not norms.
    If you say so, but the context of the discussion was via use of 'norms' rather than laws, since that was TSE's comment.
    True.
    There again, socialism is enshrined in the constitution, which might give some here pause.
  • kle4kle4 Posts: 96,153
    edited December 2019
    ydoethur said:

    Oh bugger, I've got a thread about AV and Hawaiian pizzas going up in the next 48 hours, I hope Robert's server upgrade doesn't lose that thread.

    At least it’s not comparing Labour to The Last Jedi.

    Although an excellent thread header could be written on those lines...
    Interesting and full of great ideas that were unfairly maligned by people mentally stuck in the 70s and so rejected by an overly powerful hardline minority which exagerrates to absurdity the flaws?
  • TheGreenMachineTheGreenMachine Posts: 1,090
    edited December 2019

    My friend who follows the far right says Britain First have a membership of between 100 to 500, the 5,000 figure is bullshit.

    It is a publicity stunt by Britain First, don't fall for it.

    The dissidents probably have more.
  • NigelbNigelb Posts: 71,236

    rcs1000 said:

    I will be performing a server migration (and probably upgrading the site to https) over the next 48 hours. Expect downtime.

    Goodbye PB? :lol:
    Robert relocating to a tax haven.
    Clearly that Betfair bot is more successful than he’s letting on.
  • kle4kle4 Posts: 96,153
    edited December 2019

    kle4 said:

    kle4 said:

    kle4 said:

    I see India is tearing up its constitutional norms.

    https://twitter.com/thetimes/status/1210959838219509761

    Pakistan's Army have never taken control of Pakistan?
    What does a comparison with another state have to do with whether the historic position of the Indian state is changing in some way?
    How does the head of the Indian Army commenting on the riots equal a military coup?
    I believe the phrase employed at the start of this discussion was that India was 'tearing up its constitutional norms', to which you were the one who decided to bring up the matter of military takeovers. So perhaps you should ask that question of yourself since you were the only one who seems to have equated a constitutional norm allegedly being eroded - which can cover a very wide selection of actions - to a military takeover.

    I don't quite follow how you can introduce the extreme interpretation via a spurious comparison, and then seek to dismiss that extreme interpretation as well.
    I believe it was the article, as you say, which claimed that "India is tearing up its constitutional norms".
    Right. And you were the one who in response brought up the Pakistani militarys prediliction for taking over its country. You brought into this discussion that element, and you in response to several people have equated that phrase as if people who used it in this discussion solely mean military coups.

    Sir Mike Jackson publicly commented on the following while he was still Chief of the General Staff:

    Known for speaking his mind, Jackson attracted media attention towards the end of his tenure as CGS in 2006, when he criticised Norman Kember for Kember's apparent lack of gratitude to the soldiers who freed him from Iraqi kidnappers.
    And Sir Mike Jackson has something to do with Indian constitutional norms?

    I'm not even an expect on Indian constitutional norms, but I think it not unreasonable that other countries positions are at least of lesser weight when assessing their alleged erosion, if not totally irrelevant. It'd be like saying someone insulting the Thai monarchy committed no crime because lese majesty is not a crime in Britain and here's an example of someone insulting the British monarchy.
  • Nigelb said:

    kle4 said:

    Nigelb said:

    kle4 said:

    kle4 said:

    I see India is tearing up its constitutional norms.

    https://twitter.com/thetimes/status/1210959838219509761

    Pakistan's Army have never taken control of Pakistan?
    What does a comparison with another state have to do with whether the historic position of the Indian state is changing in some way?
    How does the head of the Indian Army commenting on the riots equal a military coup?
    I believe the phrase employed at the start of this discussion was that India was 'tearing up its constitutional norms', to which you were the one who decided to bring up the matter of military takeovers. So perhaps you should ask that question of yourself since you were the only one who seems to have equated a constitutional norm allegedly being eroded - which can cover a very wide selection of actions - to a military takeover.

    I don't quite follow how you can introduce the extreme interpretation via a spurious comparison, and then seek to dismiss that extreme interpretation as well.
    And actually they’re constitutional laws, think. Not norms.
    If you say so, but the context of the discussion was via use of 'norms' rather than laws, since that was TSE's comment.
    True.
    There again, socialism is enshrined in the constitution, which might give some here pause.
    The BJP are most certainly NOT socialists! HYUFD will be along in a moment to remind everyone that Modi and co. are members of the International Democrat Union.

    https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/International_Democrat_Union
  • Has @rcs1000 broken PB yet?

    :lol:
  • rcs1000rcs1000 Posts: 57,228
    Sandpit said:

    rcs1000 said:

    I will be performing a server migration (and probably upgrading the site to https) over the next 48 hours. Expect downtime.

    Good luck Robert!
    There's only a 50% chance that I completely fuck everything up.

    The only bit that I'm slightly unsure about is how nicely Vanilla will play with https.

    I'm sure docs will exist somewhere...
  • maaarshmaaarsh Posts: 3,590
    ydoethur said:

    It occurred to me, after commenting above, to wonder how many DPPs have come out of office unscathed. So I ran the rule back over a few:

    Current incumbent - no need to elaborate.
    Ken MacDonald - repaired his image at the end with his attacks on Tony Blair’s nutty counterterrorism proposals, but was dogged by allegations of corruption throughout his tenure.
    David Calvert-Smith - Damilola Taylor (nuff said)
    Barbara Mills - Stephen Lawrence (also nuff said)
    Allan Green - not only oversaw a series of catastrophes involving Northern Ireland, but was arrested for kerb crawling causing his wife to kill herself.

    So I think either we have been quite amazingly unlucky with our choice of DPPs, or there is something in the office that makes it pretty well unmanageable even for highly intelligent, experienced and successful people.

    In which case Starmer deserves some credit for being one of the least spattered with the soft and squishy.

    The same logic which made some fools mistake Theresa May for a talent.
  • kle4 said:

    kle4 said:

    kle4 said:

    kle4 said:

    I see India is tearing up its constitutional norms.

    https://twitter.com/thetimes/status/1210959838219509761

    Pakistan's Army have never taken control of Pakistan?
    What does a comparison with another state have to do with whether the historic position of the Indian state is changing in some way?
    How does the head of the Indian Army commenting on the riots equal a military coup?
    I believe the phrase employed at the start of this discussion was that India was 'tearing up its constitutional norms', to which you were the one who decided to bring up the matter of military takeovers. So perhaps you should ask that question of yourself since you were the only one who seems to have equated a constitutional norm allegedly being eroded - which can cover a very wide selection of actions - to a military takeover.

    I don't quite follow how you can introduce the extreme interpretation via a spurious comparison, and then seek to dismiss that extreme interpretation as well.
    I believe it was the article, as you say, which claimed that "India is tearing up its constitutional norms".
    Right. And you were the one who in response brought up the Pakistani militarys prediliction for taking over its country. You brought into this discussion that element, and you in response to several people have equated that phrase as if people who used it in this discussion solely mean military coups.

    Sir Mike Jackson publicly commented on the following while he was still Chief of the General Staff:

    Known for speaking his mind, Jackson attracted media attention towards the end of his tenure as CGS in 2006, when he criticised Norman Kember for Kember's apparent lack of gratitude to the soldiers who freed him from Iraqi kidnappers.
    And Sir Mike Jackson has something to do with Indian constitutional norms?
    I thought the article questioned whether heads of armed forces should comment publicly on government policy, no?
  • StockyStocky Posts: 10,222
    I know you`ll laugh - but should Richard Burgon be as long as 750/1 with BF for next Lab leader? For trading purposes .....?
  • kle4 said:

    ydoethur said:

    Oh bugger, I've got a thread about AV and Hawaiian pizzas going up in the next 48 hours, I hope Robert's server upgrade doesn't lose that thread.

    At least it’s not comparing Labour to The Last Jedi.

    Although an excellent thread header could be written on those lines...
    Interesting and full of great ideas that were unfairly maligned by people mentally stuck in the 70s and so rejected by an overly powerful hardline minority which exaggerates to absurdity the flaws?
    Bomber craft that are too slow to evade easy destruction?
    Dreadnaught firing on the planet rather than the rebel cruisers right in front of it?
    Leia surviving long enough in space to enable her Mary Poppins moment?

    Need I go on?
  • kle4kle4 Posts: 96,153

    kle4 said:

    kle4 said:

    kle4 said:

    kle4 said:

    I see India is tearing up its constitutional norms.

    https://twitter.com/thetimes/status/1210959838219509761

    Pakistan's Army have never taken control of Pakistan?
    What does a comparison with another state have to do with whether the historic position of the Indian state is changing in some way?
    How does the head of the Indian Army commenting on the riots equal a military coup?
    I believe the phrase employed at the start of this discussion was that India was 'tearing up its constitutional norms', to which you were the one who decided to bring up the matter of military takeovers. So perhaps you should ask that question of yourself since you were the only one who seems to have equated a constitutional norm allegedly being eroded - which can cover a very wide selection of actions - to a military takeover.

    I don't quite follow how you can introduce the extreme interpretation via a spurious comparison, and then seek to dismiss that extreme interpretation as well.
    I believe it was the article, as you say, which claimed that "India is tearing up its constitutional norms".
    Right. And you were the one who in response brought up the Pakistani militarys prediliction for taking over its country. You brought into this discussion that element, and you in response to several people have equated that phrase as if people who used it in this discussion solely mean military coups.

    Sir Mike Jackson publicly commented on the following while he was still Chief of the General Staff:

    Known for speaking his mind, Jackson attracted media attention towards the end of his tenure as CGS in 2006, when he criticised Norman Kember for Kember's apparent lack of gratitude to the soldiers who freed him from Iraqi kidnappers.
    And Sir Mike Jackson has something to do with Indian constitutional norms?
    I thought the article questioned whether heads of armed forces should comment publicly on government policy, no?
    But TSE's comment was about indian constitutional norms, not universal principles. And even taking your comment, which is fair enough, that doesn't explain the diversion into military coups, and then selfsame dismissal of the subject on the assumption others were meaning a military coups.
  • Sunil_PrasannanSunil_Prasannan Posts: 51,880
    edited December 2019
    kle4 said:

    kle4 said:

    kle4 said:

    kle4 said:

    kle4 said:

    I see India is tearing up its constitutional norms.

    https://twitter.com/thetimes/status/1210959838219509761

    Pakistan's Army have never taken control of Pakistan?
    What does a comparison with another state have to do with whether the historic position of the Indian state is changing in some way?
    How does the head of the Indian Army commenting on the riots equal a military coup?
    I believe the phrase employed at the start of this discussion was that India was 'tearing up its constitutional norms', to which you were the one who decided to bring up the matter of military takeovers. So perhaps you should ask that question of yourself since you were the only one who seems to have equated a constitutional norm allegedly being eroded - which can cover a very wide selection of actions - to a military takeover.

    I don't quite follow how you can introduce the extreme interpretation via a spurious comparison, and then seek to dismiss that extreme interpretation as well.
    I believe it was the article, as you say, which claimed that "India is tearing up its constitutional norms".
    Right. And you were the one who in response brought up the Pakistani militarys prediliction for taking over its country. You brought into this discussion that element, and you in response to several people have equated that phrase as if people who used it in this discussion solely mean military coups.

    Sir Mike Jackson publicly commented on the following while he was still Chief of the General Staff:

    Known for speaking his mind, Jackson attracted media attention towards the end of his tenure as CGS in 2006, when he criticised Norman Kember for Kember's apparent lack of gratitude to the soldiers who freed him from Iraqi kidnappers.
    And Sir Mike Jackson has something to do with Indian constitutional norms?
    I thought the article questioned whether heads of armed forces should comment publicly on government policy, no?
    But TSE's comment was about indian constitutional norms, not universal principles. And even taking your comment, which is fair enough, that doesn't explain the diversion into military coups, and then selfsame dismissal of the subject on the assumption others were meaning a military coups.
    Which Indian constitutional norms are being broken?
  • NigelbNigelb Posts: 71,236

    Nigelb said:

    kle4 said:

    Nigelb said:

    kle4 said:

    kle4 said:

    I see India is tearing up its constitutional norms.

    https://twitter.com/thetimes/status/1210959838219509761

    Pakistan's Army have never taken control of Pakistan?
    What does a comparison with another state have to do with whether the historic position of the Indian state is changing in some way?
    How does the head of the Indian Army commenting on the riots equal a military coup?
    I believe the phrase employed at the start of this discussion was that India was 'tearing up its constitutional norms', to which you were the one who decided to bring up the matter of military takeovers. So perhaps you should ask that question of yourself since you were the only one who seems to have equated a constitutional norm allegedly being eroded - which can cover a very wide selection of actions - to a military takeover.

    I don't quite follow how you can introduce the extreme interpretation via a spurious comparison, and then seek to dismiss that extreme interpretation as well.
    And actually they’re constitutional laws, think. Not norms.
    If you say so, but the context of the discussion was via use of 'norms' rather than laws, since that was TSE's comment.
    True.
    There again, socialism is enshrined in the constitution, which might give some here pause.
    The BJP are most certainly NOT socialists! HYUFD will be along in a moment to remind everyone that Modi and co. are members of the International Democrat Union.

    https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/International_Democrat_Union
    Indeed.
    The Indian constitution is a hellaciously complicated thing - so perhaps ‘norms’ is correct in practice.
  • ydoethurydoethur Posts: 71,424
    edited December 2019
    kle4 said:

    ydoethur said:

    Oh bugger, I've got a thread about AV and Hawaiian pizzas going up in the next 48 hours, I hope Robert's server upgrade doesn't lose that thread.

    At least it’s not comparing Labour to The Last Jedi.

    Although an excellent thread header could be written on those lines...
    Interesting and full of great ideas that were unfairly maligned by people mentally stuck in the 70s and so rejected by an overly powerful hardline minority which exagerrates to absurdity the flaws?
    All are theoretically possible except the last bit.

    It would be impossible to exaggerate the flaws of The Last Jedi.
  • NigelbNigelb Posts: 71,236

    kle4 said:

    ydoethur said:

    Oh bugger, I've got a thread about AV and Hawaiian pizzas going up in the next 48 hours, I hope Robert's server upgrade doesn't lose that thread.

    At least it’s not comparing Labour to The Last Jedi.

    Although an excellent thread header could be written on those lines...
    Interesting and full of great ideas that were unfairly maligned by people mentally stuck in the 70s and so rejected by an overly powerful hardline minority which exaggerates to absurdity the flaws?
    Bomber craft that are too slow to evade easy destruction?
    Dreadnaught firing on the planet rather than the rebel cruisers right in front of it?
    Leia surviving long enough in space to enable her Mary Poppins moment?

    Need I go on?
    Star Wars is fantasy, not SF.
  • ydoethurydoethur Posts: 71,424

    kle4 said:

    ydoethur said:

    Oh bugger, I've got a thread about AV and Hawaiian pizzas going up in the next 48 hours, I hope Robert's server upgrade doesn't lose that thread.

    At least it’s not comparing Labour to The Last Jedi.

    Although an excellent thread header could be written on those lines...
    Interesting and full of great ideas that were unfairly maligned by people mentally stuck in the 70s and so rejected by an overly powerful hardline minority which exaggerates to absurdity the flaws?
    Bomber craft that are too slow to evade easy destruction?
    Dreadnaught firing on the planet rather than the rebel cruisers right in front of it?
    Leia surviving long enough in space to enable her Mary Poppins moment?

    Need I go on?
    I still think my most amazing achievement was to make Sunil realise The Last Jedi was awful.
  • ydoethur said:

    kle4 said:

    ydoethur said:

    Oh bugger, I've got a thread about AV and Hawaiian pizzas going up in the next 48 hours, I hope Robert's server upgrade doesn't lose that thread.

    At least it’s not comparing Labour to The Last Jedi.

    Although an excellent thread header could be written on those lines...
    Interesting and full of great ideas that were unfairly maligned by people mentally stuck in the 70s and so rejected by an overly powerful hardline minority which exaggerates to absurdity the flaws?
    Bomber craft that are too slow to evade easy destruction?
    Dreadnaught firing on the planet rather than the rebel cruisers right in front of it?
    Leia surviving long enough in space to enable her Mary Poppins moment?

    Need I go on?
    I still think my most amazing achievement was to make Sunil realise The Last Jedi was awful.
    I have seen the Rise of Skywalker, I think it was better than the Last Jedi...
  • kle4kle4 Posts: 96,153

    kle4 said:

    kle4 said:

    kle4 said:

    kle4 said:

    kle4 said:

    I see India is tearing up its constitutional norms.

    https://twitter.com/thetimes/status/1210959838219509761

    Pakistan's Army have never taken control of Pakistan?
    What does a comparison with another state have to do with whether the historic position of the Indian state is changing in some way?
    How does the head of the Indian Army commenting on the riots equal a military coup?
    I believe the phrase employed at the start of this s - to a military takeover.

    I don't quite follow how you can introduce the extreme interpretation via a spurious comparison, and then seek to dismiss that extreme interpretation as well.
    I believe it was the article, as you say, which claimed that "India is tearing up its constitutional norms".
    Right

    Sir Mike Jackson publicly commented on the following while he was still Chief of the General Staff:

    Known for speaking his mind, Jackson attracted media attention towards the end of his tenure as CGS in 2006, when he criticised Norman Kember for Kember's apparent lack of gratitude to the soldiers who freed him from Iraqi kidnappers.
    And Sir Mike Jackson has something to do with Indian constitutional norms?
    I thought the article questioned whether heads of armed forces should comment publicly on government policy, no?
    But TSE's comment was about indian constitutional norms, not universal principles. And even taking your comment, which is fair enough, that doesn't explain the diversion into military coups, and then selfsame dismissal of the subject on the assumption others were meaning a military coups.
    Which Indian constitutional norms are being broken?
    Allegedly about the military not commenting on politics. You want to tell me that is not a breach of indian constitutional norms, fine, I'll believe you, you likely have a better knowledge of such matters than I do.

    However, since your first reaction to the story was an attempt at distraction by bringing up absurd and baseless comparisons to military coups, an argument from you that no norm was broken would seem to be pretty weak, since you chose not to make that argument in the first place. If you do have a good argument no norm has been breached, what a curiosity you chose not to bring it up.
  • rcs1000rcs1000 Posts: 57,228
    Well, I've just discovered two dormant (switched off but not deleted) PB servers which I've been paying for unnecessarily...

  • Nigelb said:

    kle4 said:

    ydoethur said:

    Oh bugger, I've got a thread about AV and Hawaiian pizzas going up in the next 48 hours, I hope Robert's server upgrade doesn't lose that thread.

    At least it’s not comparing Labour to The Last Jedi.

    Although an excellent thread header could be written on those lines...
    Interesting and full of great ideas that were unfairly maligned by people mentally stuck in the 70s and so rejected by an overly powerful hardline minority which exaggerates to absurdity the flaws?
    Bomber craft that are too slow to evade easy destruction?
    Dreadnaught firing on the planet rather than the rebel cruisers right in front of it?
    Leia surviving long enough in space to enable her Mary Poppins moment?

    Need I go on?
    Star Wars is fantasy, not SF.
    Science fantasy!

    Remember, back in 1977, we were treated to "the Force", faster than light travel, planet-killing superweapons, sounds audible in space...

    Um, you get the picture!

    (for the record, my favourite episode of The Saga is The Empire Strikes Back)
  • SandpitSandpit Posts: 54,627
    edited December 2019
    rcs1000 said:

    Sandpit said:

    rcs1000 said:

    I will be performing a server migration (and probably upgrading the site to https) over the next 48 hours. Expect downtime.

    Good luck Robert!
    There's only a 50% chance that I completely fuck everything up.

    The only bit that I'm slightly unsure about is how nicely Vanilla will play with https.

    I'm sure docs will exist somewhere...
    Yes, the https integration with the Vanilla site plugin will be the issue if there is one - but at the moment that’s broken for most of us anyway from the main site, as most browsers seem to treat the Vanilla frame as a blockable ad.

    Best of luck, and shout if you need any quick and dirty research done!
  • rcs1000rcs1000 Posts: 57,228
    Sandpit said:

    rcs1000 said:

    Sandpit said:

    rcs1000 said:

    I will be performing a server migration (and probably upgrading the site to https) over the next 48 hours. Expect downtime.

    Good luck Robert!
    There's only a 50% chance that I completely fuck everything up.

    The only bit that I'm slightly unsure about is how nicely Vanilla will play with https.

    I'm sure docs will exist somewhere...
    Yes, the https integration with the Vanilla site plugin will be the issue if there is one - but at the moment that’s broken for most of us anyway from the main site, as most browsers seem to treat the Vanilla frame as a blockable ad.

    Best of luck, and shout if you need any quick and dirty research done!
    I was also going to update the Wordpress template to a modern one that plays nicely with various computers and devices that have been released this millennia.
  • kle4kle4 Posts: 96,153

    kle4 said:

    ydoethur said:

    Oh bugger, I've got a thread about AV and Hawaiian pizzas going up in the next 48 hours, I hope Robert's server upgrade doesn't lose that thread.

    At least it’s not comparing Labour to The Last Jedi.

    Although an excellent thread header could be written on those lines...
    Interesting and full of great ideas that were unfairly maligned by people mentally stuck in the 70s and so rejected by an overly powerful hardline minority which exaggerates to absurdity the flaws?
    Bomber craft that are too slow to evade easy destruction?
    Dreadnaught firing on the planet rather than the rebel cruisers right in front of it?
    Leia surviving long enough in space to enable her Mary Poppins moment?

    Need I go on?
    Yes, all rather silly stuff, and more besides, the Canto bight stuff was lame for starters. The originals hold up pretty darn poorly under that kind of scrutiny too, on top of being far far worse acted. People may well think it was a bad movie, that's not wrong as that's a subjective opinion, my joke was that many of the people who get most worked up about its flaws claim to be the biggest fans of the franchise, and I think it pretty reasonable to note that political party factions tend to be full of people who claim to believe in the party above all, yet get really really angry about other factions within the same party.
  • FloaterFloater Posts: 14,207
    “Pakistan is a multi-religious and pluralistic country where people of all faiths enjoy religious freedom under constitutional protections,” Pakistan’s foreign ministry spokeswoman Aisha Farooqui said.

    Takes a huge amount of front to claim that.

  • rcs1000 said:

    Sandpit said:

    rcs1000 said:

    Sandpit said:

    rcs1000 said:

    I will be performing a server migration (and probably upgrading the site to https) over the next 48 hours. Expect downtime.

    Good luck Robert!
    There's only a 50% chance that I completely fuck everything up.

    The only bit that I'm slightly unsure about is how nicely Vanilla will play with https.

    I'm sure docs will exist somewhere...
    Yes, the https integration with the Vanilla site plugin will be the issue if there is one - but at the moment that’s broken for most of us anyway from the main site, as most browsers seem to treat the Vanilla frame as a blockable ad.

    Best of luck, and shout if you need any quick and dirty research done!
    I was also going to update the Wordpress template to a modern one that plays nicely with various computers and devices that have been released this millennia.
    Wordpress works fine for me, don’t change what works.
  • kle4 said:

    kle4 said:

    kle4 said:

    kle4 said:

    kle4 said:

    kle4 said:

    I see India is tearing up its constitutional norms.

    https://twitter.com/thetimes/status/1210959838219509761

    Pakistan's Army have never taken control of Pakistan?
    What does a comparison with another state have to do with whether the historic position of the Indian state is changing in some way?
    How does the head of the Indian Army commenting on the riots equal a military coup?
    I believe the phrase employed at the start of this s - to a military takeover.

    I don't quite follow how you can introduce the extreme interpretation via a spurious comparison, and then seek to dismiss that extreme interpretation as well.
    I believe it was the article, as you say, which claimed that "India is tearing up its constitutional norms".
    Right

    Sir Mike Jackson publicly commented on the following while he was still Chief of the General Staff:

    Known for speaking his mind, Jackson attracted media attention towards the end of his tenure as CGS in 2006, when he criticised Norman Kember for Kember's apparent lack of gratitude to the soldiers who freed him from Iraqi kidnappers.
    And Sir Mike Jackson has something to do with Indian constitutional norms?
    I thought the article questioned whether heads of armed forces should comment publicly on government policy, no?
    meaning a military coups.
    Which Indian constitutional norms are being broken?
    Allegedly about the military not commenting on politics. You want to tell me that is not a breach of indian constitutional norms, fine, I'll believe you, you likely have a better knowledge of such matters than I do.

    However, since your first reaction to the story was an attempt at distraction by bringing up absurd and baseless comparisons to military coups, an argument from you that no norm was broken would seem to be pretty weak, since you chose not to make that argument in the first place. If you do have a good argument no norm has been breached, what a curiosity you chose not to bring it up.
    To which my response is repeated:

    "How does the head of the Indian Army commenting on the riots equal a military coup?"

    He's not exactly saying: "OK, Narendra-ji, you've had your shot - I'm ordering our boys in khaki to suspend the Indian Constitution and take over!"
  • kle4kle4 Posts: 96,153
    Nigelb said:

    kle4 said:

    ydoethur said:

    Oh bugger, I've got a thread about AV and Hawaiian pizzas going up in the next 48 hours, I hope Robert's server upgrade doesn't lose that thread.

    At least it’s not comparing Labour to The Last Jedi.

    Although an excellent thread header could be written on those lines...
    Interesting and full of great ideas that were unfairly maligned by people mentally stuck in the 70s and so rejected by an overly powerful hardline minority which exaggerates to absurdity the flaws?
    Bomber craft that are too slow to evade easy destruction?
    Dreadnaught firing on the planet rather than the rebel cruisers right in front of it?
    Leia surviving long enough in space to enable her Mary Poppins moment?

    Need I go on?
    Star Wars is fantasy, not SF.
    I've noticed my local bookstore no longer has a fantasy/science fiction section, it just calls that whole section 'science fiction', even though the vast majority of it is what would generally be termed fantasy. I speculate that because science fiction contains some more 'acclaimed' and serious works than fantasy it has managed to escape the same level of derision.
  • MalmesburyMalmesbury Posts: 50,382
    Just talked to a couple of hard core Momentum-ites....

    Where can I get odds on J. Corbyn as next Labour leader, please?

    Personne n'est corrigé; personne n'a su ni rien oublier ni rien apprendre.
  • Sunil_PrasannanSunil_Prasannan Posts: 51,880
    edited December 2019
    kle4 said:

    kle4 said:

    ydoethur said:

    Oh bugger, I've got a thread about AV and Hawaiian pizzas going up in the next 48 hours, I hope Robert's server upgrade doesn't lose that thread.

    At least it’s not comparing Labour to The Last Jedi.

    Although an excellent thread header could be written on those lines...
    Interesting and full of great ideas that were unfairly maligned by people mentally stuck in the 70s and so rejected by an overly powerful hardline minority which exaggerates to absurdity the flaws?
    Bomber craft that are too slow to evade easy destruction?
    Dreadnaught firing on the planet rather than the rebel cruisers right in front of it?
    Leia surviving long enough in space to enable her Mary Poppins moment?

    Need I go on?
    Yes, all rather silly stuff, and more besides, the Canto bight stuff was lame for starters. The originals hold up pretty darn poorly under that kind of scrutiny too, on top of being far far worse acted. People may well think it was a bad movie, that's not wrong as that's a subjective opinion, my joke was that many of the people who get most worked up about its flaws claim to be the biggest fans of the franchise, and I think it pretty reasonable to note that political party factions tend to be full of people who claim to believe in the party above all, yet get really really angry about other factions within the same party.
    On the other hand, I loved Mark Hamill in the film, he really put on a good show, even if I (and I believe he) completely disagreed with Rian Johnson's take on the Luke Skywalker character arc.
  • kle4kle4 Posts: 96,153

    kle4 said:

    kle4 said:

    ydoethur said:

    Oh bugger, I've got a thread about AV and Hawaiian pizzas going up in the next 48 hours, I hope Robert's server upgrade doesn't lose that thread.

    At least it’s not comparing Labour to The Last Jedi.

    Although an excellent thread header could be written on those lines...
    Interesting and full of great ideas that were unfairly maligned by people mentally stuck in the 70s and so rejected by an overly powerful hardline minority which exaggerates to absurdity the flaws?
    Bomber craft that are too slow to evade easy destruction?
    Dreadnaught firing on the planet rather than the rebel cruisers right in front of it?
    Leia surviving long enough in space to enable her Mary Poppins moment?

    Need I go on?
    Yes, all rather silly stuff, and more besides, the Canto bight stuff was lame for starters. The originals hold up pretty darn poorly under that kind of scrutiny too, on top of being far far worse acted. People may well think it was a bad movie, that's not wrong as that's a subjective opinion, my joke was that many of the people who get most worked up about its flaws claim to be the biggest fans of the franchise, and I think it pretty reasonable to note that political party factions tend to be full of people who claim to believe in the party above all, yet get really really angry about other factions within the same party.
    On the other hand, I loved Mark Hamill in the film, he really put on a good show, even if I (and I believe he) completely disagreed with Rian Johnson's take on the Luke Skywalker character arc.
    He's a lot better an actor than he was in the 70s, that's for sure.
  • kle4kle4 Posts: 96,153

    kle4 said:

    kle4 said:

    kle4 said:

    kle4 said:

    kle4 said:

    kle4 said:

    I s509761

    Pakistan's Army have never taken control of Pakistan?
    What does ame way?
    How does thed of the Indian Army commenting on the riots equal a military coup?
    I believe the phrase employed at the start of this s - to a military takeover.

    I don't quite f interpretation as well.
    I believe it was the article, as you say, which claimed that "India is tearing up its constitutional norms".
    Right

    Sir Mike Jackson publicly commented on the following while he was still Chief of the General Staff:

    Known for speaking his mind, Jackson attracted media attention towards the end of his tenure as CGS in 2006, when he criticised Norman Kember for Kember's apparent lack of gratitude to the soldiers who freed him from Iraqi kidnappers.
    And Sir Mike Jackson has something to do with Indian constitutional norms?
    I thought the article questioned whether heads of armed forces should comment publicly on government policy, no?
    meaning a military coups.
    Which Indian constitutional norms are being broken?
    Allet to bring it up.
    To which my response is repeated:

    "How does the head of the Indian Army commenting on the riots equal a military coup?"

    He's not exactly saying: "OK, Narendra-ji, you've had your shot - I'm ordering our boys in khaki to suspend the Indian Constitution and take over!"
    I give up, you've defeated me. Even after it's pointed out that it is about not commenting on politics not military coups, and asking whether or not that comment is a breach of norms, you still bring up this question about military coups. I can think of literally no reason why you keep on doing so when no one else has even raised that aspect and it is not even about that. You are not stupid enough to believe that only the most extreme possible action from him could be what people are talking about, rather than a principle.

    I can only conclude that you know that the issue was about whether he should comment, and whether that was normal for india, and not about what his comments were, and as you don't like that you are making it about something else entirely. I'm not going to answer your question because it is mad.
  • kle4 said:

    kle4 said:

    kle4 said:

    kle4 said:

    kle4 said:

    kle4 said:

    kle4 said:

    I s509761

    Pakistan's Army have never taken control of Pakistan?
    What does ame way?
    How does thed of the Indian Army commenting on the riots equal a military coup?
    I believe it was the article, as you say, which claimed that "India is tearing up its constitutional norms".
    Right

    Sir Mike Jackson publicly commented on the following while he was still Chief of the General Staff:

    Known for speaking his mind, Jackson attracted media attention towards the end of his tenure as CGS in 2006, when he criticised Norman Kember for Kember's apparent lack of gratitude to the soldiers who freed him from Iraqi kidnappers.
    And Sir Mike Jackson has something to do with Indian constitutional norms?
    meaning a military coups.
    Which Indian constitutional norms are being broken?
    Allet to bring it up.
    To which my response is repeated:

    "How does the head of the Indian Army commenting on the riots equal a military coup?"

    He's not exactly saying: "OK, Narendra-ji, you've had your shot - I'm ordering our boys in khaki to suspend the Indian Constitution and take over!"
    I give up, you've defeated me. Even after it's pointed out that it is about not commenting on politics not military coups, and asking whether or not that comment is a breach of norms, you still bring up this question about military coups. I can think of literally no reason why you keep on doing so when no one else has even raised that aspect and it is not even about that. You are not stupid enough to believe that only the most extreme possible action from him could be what people are talking about, rather than a principle.

    I can only conclude that you know that the issue was about whether he should comment, and whether that was normal for india, and not about what his comments were, and as you don't like that you are making it about something else entirely. I'm not going to answer your question because it is mad.
    "Oh, I'm afraid the shield generator Indian Constitution will be quite operational when your friends arrive!"
  • HYUFDHYUFD Posts: 123,149
    So it looks from those Labour members poll numbers the only likely candidate they really dislike is Jess Phillips, ironically Phillips polls about the best of the candidates with the general public.

    Seems like Jess Phillips is the Ken Clarke of this Labour leadership race
  • kyf_100kyf_100 Posts: 4,951

    Just talked to a couple of hard core Momentum-ites....

    Where can I get odds on J. Corbyn as next Labour leader, please?

    Personne n'est corrigé; personne n'a su ni rien oublier ni rien apprendre.

    If Corbyn announced he was standing again he would win again.

    There will be no compromises with the voters, comrade.
  • TheScreamingEaglesTheScreamingEagles Posts: 119,678
    edited December 2019
    The Spanners have sacked Manuel Pellegrini.

    Edit confirmation.

    https://twitter.com/WestHam/status/1211028300379959297
  • The Spanners have sacked Manuel Pellegrini.

    Edit confirmation.

    https://twitter.com/WestHam/status/1211028300379959297

    Does this mean we're doomed to Championship football next season?
  • HYUFDHYUFD Posts: 123,149

    ydoethur said:

    kle4 said:

    ydoethur said:

    Oh bugger, I've got a thread about AV and Hawaiian pizzas going up in the next 48 hours, I hope Robert's server upgrade doesn't lose that thread.

    At least it’s not comparing Labour to The Last Jedi.

    Although an excellent thread header could be written on those lines...
    Interesting and full of great ideas that were unfairly maligned by people mentally stuck in the 70s and so rejected by an overly powerful hardline minority which exaggerates to absurdity the flaws?
    Bomber craft that are too slow to evade easy destruction?
    Dreadnaught firing on the planet rather than the rebel cruisers right in front of it?
    Leia surviving long enough in space to enable her Mary Poppins moment?

    Need I go on?
    I still think my most amazing achievement was to make Sunil realise The Last Jedi was awful.
    I have seen the Rise of Skywalker, I think it was better than the Last Jedi...
    I have just seen the Rise of Skywalker too, found the first half disjointed and confusing but it made up for it with a great end sequence
  • kyf_100 said:

    Just talked to a couple of hard core Momentum-ites....

    Where can I get odds on J. Corbyn as next Labour leader, please?

    Personne n'est corrigé; personne n'a su ni rien oublier ni rien apprendre.

    If Corbyn announced he was standing again he would win again.

    There will be no compromises with the voters, comrade.
    "Not one step back!"
  • HYUFDHYUFD Posts: 123,149

    Nigelb said:

    kle4 said:

    Nigelb said:

    kle4 said:

    kle4 said:

    I see India is tearing up its constitutional norms.

    https://twitter.com/thetimes/status/1210959838219509761

    Pakistan's Army have never taken control of Pakistan?
    What does a comparison with another state have to do with whether the historic position of the Indian state is changing in some way?
    How does the head of the Indian Army commenting on the riots equal a military coup?
    I believe the phrase employed at the start of this discussion was that India was 'tearing up its constitutional norms', to which you were the one who decided to bring up the matter of military takeovers. So perhaps you should ask that question of yourself since you were the only one who seems to have equated a constitutional norm allegedly being eroded - which can cover a very wide selection of actions - to a military takeover.

    I don't quite follow how you can introduce the extreme interpretation via a spurious comparison, and then seek to dismiss that extreme interpretation as well.
    And actually they’re constitutional laws, think. Not norms.
    If you say so, but the context of the discussion was via use of 'norms' rather than laws, since that was TSE's comment.
    True.
    There again, socialism is enshrined in the constitution, which might give some here pause.
    The BJP are most certainly NOT socialists! HYUFD will be along in a moment to remind everyone that Modi and co. are members of the International Democrat Union.

    https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/International_Democrat_Union
    Indeed, the Congress Party maybe, though even they are more social democratic, certainly not the right-wing BJP
  • For backers/layers of Ian Lavery as next Labour leader.

    https://twitter.com/Gabriel_Pogrund/status/1211024497899458563
  • HYUFDHYUFD Posts: 123,149

    kle4 said:

    I see India is tearing up its constitutional norms.

    Flavour of the times in a lot of places. I'm not one for bemoaning the state of the world generally, but I do think in some places/issues we are going backwards.
    Indeed.

    https://twitter.com/yashar/status/1210993841936818176
    https://www.thetimes.co.uk/article/fearing-a-new-dark-age-americas-christian-conservatives-flee-the-city-for-the-countryside-bzjkd2c7k
  • kyf_100 said:

    Just talked to a couple of hard core Momentum-ites....

    Where can I get odds on J. Corbyn as next Labour leader, please?

    Personne n'est corrigé; personne n'a su ni rien oublier ni rien apprendre.

    If Corbyn announced he was standing again he would win again.

    There will be no compromises with the voters, comrade.
    The bookies wouldn't offer odds or payout though.
  • The Spanners have sacked Manuel Pellegrini.

    Edit confirmation.

    https://twitter.com/WestHam/status/1211028300379959297

    He's been sacked at every club he's Been at, at least he's consistent
  • CyclefreeCyclefree Posts: 25,318
    ydoethur said:

    It occurred to me, after commenting above, to wonder how many DPPs have come out of office unscathed. So I ran the rule back over a few:

    Current incumbent - no need to elaborate.
    Ken MacDonald - repaired his image at the end with his attacks on Tony Blair’s nutty counterterrorism proposals, but was dogged by allegations of corruption throughout his tenure.
    David Calvert-Smith - Damilola Taylor (nuff said)
    Barbara Mills - Stephen Lawrence (also nuff said)
    Allan Green - not only oversaw a series of catastrophes involving Northern Ireland, but was arrested for kerb crawling causing his wife to kill herself.

    So I think either we have been quite amazingly unlucky with our choice of DPPs, or there is something in the office that makes it pretty well unmanageable even for highly intelligent, experienced and successful people.

    In which case Starmer deserves some credit for being one of the least spattered with the soft and squishy.

    Wasn’t there that case of a police critic, who was on some supervisory committee, who was pursued by the police who used pictures of some private - if pretty esoteric - sexual activity to prosecute him. He was acquitted but ended up making a new life elsewhere? Wasn’t Starmer the DPP who authorised the prosecution?

    As well as of the journalists in Operation Elveden?
  • FoxyFoxy Posts: 48,720
    HYUFD said:

    So it looks from those Labour members poll numbers the only likely candidate they really dislike is Jess Phillips, ironically Phillips polls about the best of the candidates with the general public.

    Seems like Jess Phillips is the Ken Clarke of this Labour leadership race

    Indeed, Jess is hated by all the right people. It is why she is the best candidate for the job.

    I am rather a Rayner fan too. Labour needs someone with a bit of fight in them, not a limp lettuce like Nandy or Starmer.
  • CyclefreeCyclefree Posts: 25,318
    Sandpit said:

    MaxPB said:

    Sandpit said:

    I see India is tearing up its constitutional norms.

    https://twitter.com/thetimes/status/1210959838219509761

    Pakistan's Army have never taken control of Pakistan?
    Can you explain the Indian Citizenship Law in simple terms? I know loads of people really excited about it on both sides, but can’t work out why!
    India is offering a pathway to citizenship for illegal immigrants who face religious persecution in neighbouring states. It just so happens that these neighbouring states are all Muslim and persecute non-Muslims. It's been a long time coming tbh, someone in South Asia needed to stand up for minorities in Muslim countries and I'm glad it's India.
    Ah okay, that makes more sense than any explanation I’ve heard so far. So the arguments are about who these people are, and whether or not they can be Indian.
    Misleading by omission, I feel. Isn’t India also expecting all Muslims currently living in India to prove, via documentary evidence, their right to live in India? And seizing their property if they fail to provide it?
  • Cyclefree said:

    Sandpit said:

    MaxPB said:

    Sandpit said:

    I see India is tearing up its constitutional norms.

    https://twitter.com/thetimes/status/1210959838219509761

    Pakistan's Army have never taken control of Pakistan?
    Can you explain the Indian Citizenship Law in simple terms? I know loads of people really excited about it on both sides, but can’t work out why!
    India is offering a pathway to citizenship for illegal immigrants who face religious persecution in neighbouring states. It just so happens that these neighbouring states are all Muslim and persecute non-Muslims. It's been a long time coming tbh, someone in South Asia needed to stand up for minorities in Muslim countries and I'm glad it's India.
    Ah okay, that makes more sense than any explanation I’ve heard so far. So the arguments are about who these people are, and whether or not they can be Indian.
    Misleading by omission, I feel. Isn’t India also expecting all Muslims currently living in India to prove, via documentary evidence, their right to live in India? And seizing their property if they fail to provide it?
    No, there are currently c.200 million Muslims living in India. Do you really think the creaking Indian bureaucracy would cope? :lol:
  • Cyclefree said:

    Sandpit said:

    MaxPB said:

    Sandpit said:

    I see India is tearing up its constitutional norms.

    https://twitter.com/thetimes/status/1210959838219509761

    Pakistan's Army have never taken control of Pakistan?
    Can you explain the Indian Citizenship Law in simple terms? I know loads of people really excited about it on both sides, but can’t work out why!
    India is offering a pathway to citizenship for illegal immigrants who face religious persecution in neighbouring states. It just so happens that these neighbouring states are all Muslim and persecute non-Muslims. It's been a long time coming tbh, someone in South Asia needed to stand up for minorities in Muslim countries and I'm glad it's India.
    Ah okay, that makes more sense than any explanation I’ve heard so far. So the arguments are about who these people are, and whether or not they can be Indian.
    Misleading by omission, I feel. Isn’t India also expecting all Muslims currently living in India to prove, via documentary evidence, their right to live in India? And seizing their property if they fail to provide it?
    Indeed.

    In a country with high levels of illiteracy, inconsistent spelling, and lack of documentation when it comes to property and births what the BJP are planning is terrible.
  • FoxyFoxy Posts: 48,720

    The Spanners have sacked Manuel Pellegrini.

    Edit confirmation.

    https://twitter.com/WestHam/status/1211028300379959297

    He's been sacked at every club he's Been at, at least he's consistent
    It's pretty much a hazard of the job. Nearly everyone gets sacked every few seasons.

    Losing to Leicester reserves at home is pretty embarrassing though. Good to see the Foxes back on form, after a few poor performances.
  • Foxy said:

    The Spanners have sacked Manuel Pellegrini.

    Edit confirmation.

    https://twitter.com/WestHam/status/1211028300379959297

    He's been sacked at every club he's Been at, at least he's consistent
    It's pretty much a hazard of the job. Nearly everyone gets sacked every few seasons.

    Losing to Leicester reserves at home is pretty embarrassing though. Good to see the Foxes back on form, after a few poor performances.
    Brendan Rodgers is the enemy of 99% of fantasy football managers though.
  • FoxyFoxy Posts: 48,720

    Foxy said:

    The Spanners have sacked Manuel Pellegrini.

    Edit confirmation.

    https://twitter.com/WestHam/status/1211028300379959297

    He's been sacked at every club he's Been at, at least he's consistent
    It's pretty much a hazard of the job. Nearly everyone gets sacked every few seasons.

    Losing to Leicester reserves at home is pretty embarrassing though. Good to see the Foxes back on form, after a few poor performances.
    Brendan Rodgers is the enemy of 99% of fantasy football managers though.
    I think he agrees with Klopp that there is one two many Christmas fixtures, and did the obvious. He wants a strong team in the Cups.
  • CyclefreeCyclefree Posts: 25,318

    Cyclefree said:

    Sandpit said:

    MaxPB said:

    Sandpit said:

    I see India is tearing up its constitutional norms.

    https://twitter.com/thetimes/status/1210959838219509761

    Pakistan's Army have never taken control of Pakistan?
    Can you explain the Indian Citizenship Law in simple terms? I know loads of people really excited about it on both sides, but can’t work out why!
    India is offering a pathway to citizenship for illegal immigrants who face religious persecution in neighbouring states. It just so happens that these neighbouring states are all Muslim and persecute non-Muslims. It's been a long time coming tbh, someone in South Asia needed to stand up for minorities in Muslim countries and I'm glad it's India.
    Ah okay, that makes more sense than any explanation I’ve heard so far. So the arguments are about who these people are, and whether or not they can be Indian.
    Misleading by omission, I feel. Isn’t India also expecting all Muslims currently living in India to prove, via documentary evidence, their right to live in India? And seizing their property if they fail to provide it?
    No, there are currently c.200 million Muslims living in India. Do you really think the creaking Indian bureaucracy would cope? :lol:
    Whether the bureaucracy can cope is one thing. But isn’t what I’ve written exactly what is planned by the proposed new law combined with the National Register of Citizens. And if I’ve got it wrong, perhaps you could spell out how.
  • Cyclefree said:

    Cyclefree said:

    Sandpit said:

    MaxPB said:

    Sandpit said:

    I see India is tearing up its constitutional norms.

    https://twitter.com/thetimes/status/1210959838219509761

    Pakistan's Army have never taken control of Pakistan?
    Can you explain the Indian Citizenship Law in simple terms? I know loads of people really excited about it on both sides, but can’t work out why!
    India is offering a pathway to citizenship for illegal immigrants who face religious persecution in neighbouring states. It just so happens that these neighbouring states are all Muslim and persecute non-Muslims. It's been a long time coming tbh, someone in South Asia needed to stand up for minorities in Muslim countries and I'm glad it's India.
    Ah okay, that makes more sense than any explanation I’ve heard so far. So the arguments are about who these people are, and whether or not they can be Indian.
    Misleading by omission, I feel. Isn’t India also expecting all Muslims currently living in India to prove, via documentary evidence, their right to live in India? And seizing their property if they fail to provide it?
    No, there are currently c.200 million Muslims living in India. Do you really think the creaking Indian bureaucracy would cope? :lol:
    Whether the bureaucracy can cope is one thing. But isn’t what I’ve written exactly what is planned by the proposed new law combined with the National Register of Citizens. And if I’ve got it wrong, perhaps you could spell out how.
    The NRC (National Register of Citizens) was enacted in the eastern state Assam a few years back.

    But what is being proposed nation-wide is the NPR - National Population Register, it's a glorified census.
  • Foxy said:

    The Spanners have sacked Manuel Pellegrini.

    Edit confirmation.

    https://twitter.com/WestHam/status/1211028300379959297

    He's been sacked at every club he's Been at, at least he's consistent
    It's pretty much a hazard of the job. Nearly everyone gets sacked every few seasons.

    Losing to Leicester reserves at home is pretty embarrassing though. Good to see the Foxes back on form, after a few poor performances.
    Being a neutral, I like to see Leicester do well, most neutrals do.
  • MalmesburyMalmesbury Posts: 50,382
    edited December 2019

    kyf_100 said:

    Just talked to a couple of hard core Momentum-ites....

    Where can I get odds on J. Corbyn as next Labour leader, please?

    Personne n'est corrigé; personne n'a su ni rien oublier ni rien apprendre.

    If Corbyn announced he was standing again he would win again.

    There will be no compromises with the voters, comrade.
    The bookies wouldn't offer odds or payout though.
    The attitude expressed was that the people..

    Had forfeited the confidence of the government party
    .... would it not in that case be simpler
    for the government party
    To dissolve the people
    And elect another?

    For some reason I can see Boris Johnson praying fervently, in Latin, for this outcome
  • Quiet on here! Has @rcs1000 broken PB??
  • NigelbNigelb Posts: 71,236
    Cyclefree said:

    Cyclefree said:

    Sandpit said:

    MaxPB said:

    Sandpit said:

    I see India is tearing up its constitutional norms.

    https://twitter.com/thetimes/status/1210959838219509761

    Pakistan's Army have never taken control of Pakistan?
    Can you explain the Indian Citizenship Law in simple terms? I know loads of people really excited about it on both sides, but can’t work out why!
    India is offering a pathway to citizenship for illegal immigrants who face religious persecution in neighbouring states. It just so happens that these neighbouring states are all Muslim and persecute non-Muslims. It's been a long time coming tbh, someone in South Asia needed to stand up for minorities in Muslim countries and I'm glad it's India.
    Ah okay, that makes more sense than any explanation I’ve heard so far. So the arguments are about who these people are, and whether or not they can be Indian.
    Misleading by omission, I feel. Isn’t India also expecting all Muslims currently living in India to prove, via documentary evidence, their right to live in India? And seizing their property if they fail to provide it?
    No, there are currently c.200 million Muslims living in India. Do you really think the creaking Indian bureaucracy would cope? :lol:
    Whether the bureaucracy can cope is one thing. But isn’t what I’ve written exactly what is planned by the proposed new law combined with the National Register of Citizens. And if I’ve got it wrong, perhaps you could spell out how.
    This presents a different picture to Sunil:
    https://www.theatlantic.com/ideas/archive/2019/12/indian-democracy-fighting-back/604129/
    Clearly it is written from a very different point of view, but I don’t think it sheer invention.

    In any event, feelings are dangerously high on both sides.
  • NigelbNigelb Posts: 71,236

    Quiet on here! Has @rcs1000 broken PB??

    He’s kept it open just for you and me I think ?
  • BenpointerBenpointer Posts: 34,695

    Quiet on here! Has @rcs1000 broken PB??

    Not yet
  • CharlesCharles Posts: 35,758

    I see this is the way to smear Mayor Pete.

    https://twitter.com/twlldun/status/1210990781391089664

    The answer to Jubal’s question is “no”

    HIV is a chronic condition that can be easily controlled with a widely available drug regime

    It is no worse than diabetes (and arguably it is a lower risk having someone who is HIV positive as President vs having a diabetic)
  • CharlesCharles Posts: 35,758
    ydoethur said:

    It occurred to me, after commenting above, to wonder how many DPPs have come out of office unscathed. So I ran the rule back over a few:

    Current incumbent - no need to elaborate.
    Ken MacDonald - repaired his image at the end with his attacks on Tony Blair’s nutty counterterrorism proposals, but was dogged by allegations of corruption throughout his tenure.
    David Calvert-Smith - Damilola Taylor (nuff said)
    Barbara Mills - Stephen Lawrence (also nuff said)
    Allan Green - not only oversaw a series of catastrophes involving Northern Ireland, but was arrested for kerb crawling causing his wife to kill herself.

    So I think either we have been quite amazingly unlucky with our choice of DPPs, or there is something in the office that makes it pretty well unmanageable even for highly intelligent, experienced and successful people.

    In which case Starmer deserves some credit for being one of the least spattered with the soft and squishy.

    Weren’t Lawrence and Taylor failures of the police rather than the CPS?
  • BenpointerBenpointer Posts: 34,695
    Re Starmer Are we going to hear from @Charles’s mum anytime soon?
  • NigelbNigelb Posts: 71,236
    Charles said:

    I see this is the way to smear Mayor Pete.

    https://twitter.com/twlldun/status/1210990781391089664

    The answer to Jubal’s question is “no”

    HIV is a chronic condition that can be easily controlled with a widely available drug regime

    It is no worse than diabetes (and arguably it is a lower risk having someone who is HIV positive as President vs having a diabetic)
    Of course.

    But the other reply (as I suggested earlier) is to ask if the percentage of highly educated, Christian, monogamous ex Marines who are HIV positive is smaller than the percentage of Jubals who have relations with farm animals...

    IOW, it’s a poorly disguised slur, and should be treated as such.
  • MalmesburyMalmesbury Posts: 50,382
    Nigelb said:

    Cyclefree said:

    Cyclefree said:

    Sandpit said:

    MaxPB said:

    Sandpit said:

    I see India is tearing up its constitutional norms.

    https://twitter.com/thetimes/status/1210959838219509761

    Pakistan's Army have never taken control of Pakistan?
    Can you explain the Indian Citizenship Law in simple terms? I know loads of people really excited about it on both sides, but can’t work out why!
    India is offering a pathway to citizenship for illegal immigrants who face religious persecution in neighbouring states. It just so happens that these neighbouring states are all Muslim and persecute non-Muslims. It's been a long time coming tbh, someone in South Asia needed to stand up for minorities in Muslim countries and I'm glad it's India.
    Ah okay, that makes more sense than any explanation I’ve heard so far. So the arguments are about who these people are, and whether or not they can be Indian.
    Misleading by omission, I feel. Isn’t India also expecting all Muslims currently living in India to prove, via documentary evidence, their right to live in India? And seizing their property if they fail to provide it?
    No, there are currently c.200 million Muslims living in India. Do you really think the creaking Indian bureaucracy would cope? :lol:
    Whether the bureaucracy can cope is one thing. But isn’t what I’ve written exactly what is planned by the proposed new law combined with the National Register of Citizens. And if I’ve got it wrong, perhaps you could spell out how.
    This presents a different picture to Sunil:
    https://www.theatlantic.com/ideas/archive/2019/12/indian-democracy-fighting-back/604129/
    Clearly it is written from a very different point of view, but I don’t think it sheer invention.

    In any event, feelings are dangerously high on both sides.
    I have heard it stated that the underlying fear - as opposed to visions of India expelling all the Muslims etc - is that Modi is trying to create "ground truth" in states bordering Pakistan and Bangladesh. Not surprisingly these areas have large Muslim populations... which they think he is trying to dilute by encouraging mass migration of non-Muslims.

    Any thoughts?
  • Nigelb said:

    Cyclefree said:

    Cyclefree said:

    Sandpit said:

    MaxPB said:

    Sandpit said:

    I see India is tearing up its constitutional norms.

    https://twitter.com/thetimes/status/1210959838219509761

    Pakistan's Army have never taken control of Pakistan?
    Can you explain the Indian Citizenship Law in simple terms? I know loads of people really excited about it on both sides, but can’t work out why!
    India is offering a pathway to citizenship for illegal immigrants who face religious persecution in neighbouring states. It just so happens that these neighbouring states are all Muslim and persecute non-Muslims. It's been a long time coming tbh, someone in South Asia needed to stand up for minorities in Muslim countries and I'm glad it's India.
    Ah okay, that makes more sense than any explanation I’ve heard so far. So the arguments are about who these people are, and whether or not they can be Indian.
    Misleading by omission, I feel. Isn’t India also expecting all Muslims currently living in India to prove, via documentary evidence, their right to live in India? And seizing their property if they fail to provide it?
    No, there are currently c.200 million Muslims living in India. Do you really think the creaking Indian bureaucracy would cope? :lol:
    Whether the bureaucracy can cope is one thing. But isn’t what I’ve written exactly what is planned by the proposed new law combined with the National Register of Citizens. And if I’ve got it wrong, perhaps you could spell out how.
    This presents a different picture to Sunil:
    https://www.theatlantic.com/ideas/archive/2019/12/indian-democracy-fighting-back/604129/
    Clearly it is written from a very different point of view, but I don’t think it sheer invention.

    In any event, feelings are dangerously high on both sides.
    The NRC (National Register of Citizens) was enacted in the eastern state of Assam a few years back.

    But what is being proposed nation-wide is the NPR - National Population Register, it's a glorified census.
  • MalmesburyMalmesbury Posts: 50,382
    Charles said:

    I see this is the way to smear Mayor Pete.

    https://twitter.com/twlldun/status/1210990781391089664

    The answer to Jubal’s question is “no”

    HIV is a chronic condition that can be easily controlled with a widely available drug regime

    It is no worse than diabetes (and arguably it is a lower risk having someone who is HIV positive as President vs having a diabetic)
    I knew that the newest drug regimes were a massive improvement on the early treatments - it is (excellent) news to me that they are that good.
  • BenpointerBenpointer Posts: 34,695
    Charles said:

    I see this is the way to smear Mayor Pete.

    https://twitter.com/twlldun/status/1210990781391089664

    The answer to Jubal’s question is “no”

    HIV is a chronic condition that can be easily controlled with a widely available drug regime

    It is no worse than diabetes (and arguably it is a lower risk having someone who is HIV positive as President vs having a diabetic)
    The other strange thing is that the stats it’s based on quote ‘recent data’ but the article is dated 2010.

    Typically nasty right-wing slur.
  • CharlesCharles Posts: 35,758
    kle4 said:

    Nigelb said:

    kle4 said:

    ydoethur said:

    Oh bugger, I've got a thread about AV and Hawaiian pizzas going up in the next 48 hours, I hope Robert's server upgrade doesn't lose that thread.

    At least it’s not comparing Labour to The Last Jedi.

    Although an excellent thread header could be written on those lines...
    Interesting and full of great ideas that were unfairly maligned by people mentally stuck in the 70s and so rejected by an overly powerful hardline minority which exaggerates to absurdity the flaws?
    Bomber craft that are too slow to evade easy destruction?
    Dreadnaught firing on the planet rather than the rebel cruisers right in front of it?
    Leia surviving long enough in space to enable her Mary Poppins moment?

    Need I go on?
    Star Wars is fantasy, not SF.
    I've noticed my local bookstore no longer has a fantasy/science fiction section, it just calls that whole section 'science fiction', even though the vast majority of it is what would generally be termed fantasy. I speculate that because science fiction contains some more 'acclaimed' and serious works than fantasy it has managed to escape the same level of derision.
    Or there might be some misunderstanding about what “fantasy” involves for some clientele?
  • NigelbNigelb Posts: 71,236
    edited December 2019



    I have heard it stated that the underlying fear - as opposed to visions of India expelling all the Muslims etc - is that Modi is trying to create "ground truth" in states bordering Pakistan and Bangladesh. Not surprisingly these areas have large Muslim populations... which they think he is trying to dilute by encouraging mass migration of non-Muslims.

    Any thoughts?

    I am, as you might guess, no expert on India. For all I know Sunil could be entirely right.

    But clearly people are, rightly or wrongly, deeply worried:
    https://www.newyorker.com/magazine/2019/12/09/blood-and-soil-in-narendra-modis-india

    https://www.newyorker.com/news/q-and-a/indias-citizenship-emergency
  • Charles said:

    I see this is the way to smear Mayor Pete.

    https://twitter.com/twlldun/status/1210990781391089664

    The answer to Jubal’s question is “no”

    HIV is a chronic condition that can be easily controlled with a widely available drug regime

    It is no worse than diabetes (and arguably it is a lower risk having someone who is HIV positive as President vs having a diabetic)
    The other strange thing is that the stats it’s based on quote ‘recent data’ but the article is dated 2010.

    Typically nasty right-wing slur.

    "A veteran Washington observer has looked into his crystal ball and seen that Pete Buttigieg winning the presidential election in November, alongside his running mate, Stacey Abrams of Georgia.

    The prediction comes from Carl Leubsdorf, a columnist with the Dallas Morning News, who served as that paper’s Washington bureau chief for 27 years. His column, published Wednesday, mirrors the semi-serious year-end predictions made famous by the late William Safire of the New York Times

    Leubsdorf forecasts that Buttigieg will get the most votes at the Iowa caucus in February and finish second in New Hampshire."


    https://www.marketwatch.com/story/veteran-political-reporter-picks-buttigieg-to-win-it-all-next-year-2019-12-27
  • NigelbNigelb Posts: 71,236
    Charles said:

    kle4 said:

    Nigelb said:

    kle4 said:

    ydoethur said:

    Oh bugger, I've got a thread about AV and Hawaiian pizzas going up in the next 48 hours, I hope Robert's server upgrade doesn't lose that thread.

    At least it’s not comparing Labour to The Last Jedi.

    Although an excellent thread header could be written on those lines...
    Interesting and full of great ideas that were unfairly maligned by people mentally stuck in the 70s and so rejected by an overly powerful hardline minority which exaggerates to absurdity the flaws?
    Bomber craft that are too slow to evade easy destruction?
    Dreadnaught firing on the planet rather than the rebel cruisers right in front of it?
    Leia surviving long enough in space to enable her Mary Poppins moment?

    Need I go on?
    Star Wars is fantasy, not SF.
    I've noticed my local bookstore no longer has a fantasy/science fiction section, it just calls that whole section 'science fiction', even though the vast majority of it is what would generally be termed fantasy. I speculate that because science fiction contains some more 'acclaimed' and serious works than fantasy it has managed to escape the same level of derision.
    Or there might be some misunderstanding about what “fantasy” involves for some clientele?
    That could be an entirely different section....
  • Charles said:

    kle4 said:

    Nigelb said:

    kle4 said:

    ydoethur said:

    Oh bugger, I've got a thread about AV and Hawaiian pizzas going up in the next 48 hours, I hope Robert's server upgrade doesn't lose that thread.

    At least it’s not comparing Labour to The Last Jedi.

    Although an excellent thread header could be written on those lines...
    Interesting and full of great ideas that were unfairly maligned by people mentally stuck in the 70s and so rejected by an overly powerful hardline minority which exaggerates to absurdity the flaws?
    Bomber craft that are too slow to evade easy destruction?
    Dreadnaught firing on the planet rather than the rebel cruisers right in front of it?
    Leia surviving long enough in space to enable her Mary Poppins moment?

    Need I go on?
    Star Wars is fantasy, not SF.
    I've noticed my local bookstore no longer has a fantasy/science fiction section, it just calls that whole section 'science fiction', even though the vast majority of it is what would generally be termed fantasy. I speculate that because science fiction contains some more 'acclaimed' and serious works than fantasy it has managed to escape the same level of derision.
    Or there might be some misunderstanding about what “fantasy” involves for some clientele?
    "Any sufficiently advanced technology is indistinguishable from magic."
    - Arthur C. Clarke.
  • CharlesCharles Posts: 35,758
    Cyclefree said:

    ydoethur said:

    It occurred to me, after commenting above, to wonder how many DPPs have come out of office unscathed. So I ran the rule back over a few:

    Current incumbent - no need to elaborate.
    Ken MacDonald - repaired his image at the end with his attacks on Tony Blair’s nutty counterterrorism proposals, but was dogged by allegations of corruption throughout his tenure.
    David Calvert-Smith - Damilola Taylor (nuff said)
    Barbara Mills - Stephen Lawrence (also nuff said)
    Allan Green - not only oversaw a series of catastrophes involving Northern Ireland, but was arrested for kerb crawling causing his wife to kill herself.

    So I think either we have been quite amazingly unlucky with our choice of DPPs, or there is something in the office that makes it pretty well unmanageable even for highly intelligent, experienced and successful people.

    In which case Starmer deserves some credit for being one of the least spattered with the soft and squishy.

    Wasn’t there that case of a police critic, who was on some supervisory committee, who was pursued by the police who used pictures of some private - if pretty esoteric - sexual activity to prosecute him. He was acquitted but ended up making a new life elsewhere? Wasn’t Starmer the DPP who authorised the prosecution?

    As well as of the journalists in Operation Elveden?
    Yes - he was on the COLP police authority and was very critical of them. Embarrassingly I’ve forgotten his name despite being a fellow Warden of St Dunstan for many years.

    He ended up innocent, bankrupted and broken by the DPP
  • I've had enough Xmas to last me another year.
  • Nigelb said:

    Cyclefree said:

    Cyclefree said:

    Sandpit said:

    MaxPB said:

    Sandpit said:

    I see India is tearing up its constitutional norms.

    https://twitter.com/thetimes/status/1210959838219509761

    Pakistan's Army have never taken control of Pakistan?
    Can you explain the Indian Citizenship Law in simple terms? I know loads of people really excited about it on both sides, but can’t work out why!
    India is offering a pathway to citizenship for illegal immigrants who face religious persecution in neighbouring states. It just so happens that these neighbouring states are all Muslim and persecute non-Muslims. It's been a long time coming tbh, someone in South Asia needed to stand up for minorities in Muslim countries and I'm glad it's India.
    Ah okay, that makes more sense than any explanation I’ve heard so far. So the arguments are about who these people are, and whether or not they can be Indian.
    Misleading by omission, I feel. Isn’t India also expecting all Muslims currently living in India to prove, via documentary evidence, their right to live in India? And seizing their property if they fail to provide it?
    No, there are currently c.200 million Muslims living in India. Do you really think the creaking Indian bureaucracy would cope? :lol:
    Whether the bureaucracy can cope is one thing. But isn’t what I’ve written exactly what is planned by the proposed new law combined with the National Register of Citizens. And if I’ve got it wrong, perhaps you could spell out how.
    This presents a different picture to Sunil:
    https://www.theatlantic.com/ideas/archive/2019/12/indian-democracy-fighting-back/604129/
    Clearly it is written from a very different point of view, but I don’t think it sheer invention.

    In any event, feelings are dangerously high on both sides.
    I have heard it stated that the underlying fear - as opposed to visions of India expelling all the Muslims etc - is that Modi is trying to create "ground truth" in states bordering Pakistan and Bangladesh. Not surprisingly these areas have large Muslim populations... which they think he is trying to dilute by encouraging mass migration of non-Muslims.

    Any thoughts?
    Not necessarily.

    Kerala, in the deep south (nowhere near Pakistan or Bangladesh), has a 25% Muslim population. The Lakshadweep Islands nearby are almost 100% Muslim.
  • CharlesCharles Posts: 35,758

    Re Starmer Are we going to hear from @Charles’s mum anytime soon?

    She won’t blooming well tell me!
  • Foxy said:

    HYUFD said:

    So it looks from those Labour members poll numbers the only likely candidate they really dislike is Jess Phillips, ironically Phillips polls about the best of the candidates with the general public.

    Seems like Jess Phillips is the Ken Clarke of this Labour leadership race

    Indeed, Jess is hated by all the right people. It is why she is the best candidate for the job.

    I am rather a Rayner fan too. Labour needs someone with a bit of fight in them, not a limp lettuce like Nandy or Starmer.
    A RBL win probably means the end of the Labour party as one of the two main parties. So no pressure Labour members.
  • NigelbNigelb Posts: 71,236

    Charles said:

    kle4 said:

    Nigelb said:

    kle4 said:

    ydoethur said:

    Oh bugger, I've got a thread about AV and Hawaiian pizzas going up in the next 48 hours, I hope Robert's server upgrade doesn't lose that thread.

    At least it’s not comparing Labour to The Last Jedi.

    Although an excellent thread header could be written on those lines...
    Interesting and full of great ideas that were unfairly maligned by people mentally stuck in the 70s and so rejected by an overly powerful hardline minority which exaggerates to absurdity the flaws?
    Bomber craft that are too slow to evade easy destruction?
    Dreadnaught firing on the planet rather than the rebel cruisers right in front of it?
    Leia surviving long enough in space to enable her Mary Poppins moment?

    Need I go on?
    Star Wars is fantasy, not SF.
    I've noticed my local bookstore no longer has a fantasy/science fiction section, it just calls that whole section 'science fiction', even though the vast majority of it is what would generally be termed fantasy. I speculate that because science fiction contains some more 'acclaimed' and serious works than fantasy it has managed to escape the same level of derision.
    Or there might be some misunderstanding about what “fantasy” involves for some clientele?
    "Any sufficiently advanced technology is indistinguishable from magic."
    - Arthur C. Clarke.
    Indeed:
    https://www.amazon.co.uk/Rise-Fall-D-D/dp/0008132569

    Though I doubt @Dura_Ace would approve of that effort against Anathem.
    Though there are parallels in the premise.
  • CharlesCharles Posts: 35,758

    Charles said:

    I see this is the way to smear Mayor Pete.

    https://twitter.com/twlldun/status/1210990781391089664

    The answer to Jubal’s question is “no”

    HIV is a chronic condition that can be easily controlled with a widely available drug regime

    It is no worse than diabetes (and arguably it is a lower risk having someone who is HIV positive as President vs having a diabetic)
    I knew that the newest drug regimes were a massive improvement on the early treatments - it is (excellent) news to me that they are that good.
    Basically it has moved from “this is a sentence of death” to “this is going to be a pain in the butt for the rest of your life” (no pun intended)
  • CharlesCharles Posts: 35,758

    Charles said:

    I see this is the way to smear Mayor Pete.

    https://twitter.com/twlldun/status/1210990781391089664

    The answer to Jubal’s question is “no”

    HIV is a chronic condition that can be easily controlled with a widely available drug regime

    It is no worse than diabetes (and arguably it is a lower risk having someone who is HIV positive as President vs having a diabetic)
    The other strange thing is that the stats it’s based on quote ‘recent data’ but the article is dated 2010.

    Typically nasty right-wing slur.
    On what basis do you decide that Jubal is “right wing”? On what basis do you determine that he is representative of the entire right wing?
  • CharlesCharles Posts: 35,758
    Nigelb said:

    Charles said:

    kle4 said:

    Nigelb said:

    kle4 said:

    ydoethur said:

    Oh bugger, I've got a thread about AV and Hawaiian pizzas going up in the next 48 hours, I hope Robert's server upgrade doesn't lose that thread.

    At least it’s not comparing Labour to The Last Jedi.

    Although an excellent thread header could be written on those lines...
    Interesting and full of great ideas that were unfairly maligned by people mentally stuck in the 70s and so rejected by an overly powerful hardline minority which exaggerates to absurdity the flaws?
    Bomber craft that are too slow to evade easy destruction?
    Dreadnaught firing on the planet rather than the rebel cruisers right in front of it?
    Leia surviving long enough in space to enable her Mary Poppins moment?

    Need I go on?
    Star Wars is fantasy, not SF.
    I've noticed my local bookstore no longer has a fantasy/science fiction section, it just calls that whole section 'science fiction', even though the vast majority of it is what would generally be termed fantasy. I speculate that because science fiction contains some more 'acclaimed' and serious works than fantasy it has managed to escape the same level of derision.
    Or there might be some misunderstanding about what “fantasy” involves for some clientele?
    That could be an entirely different section....
    You wouldn’t want them mixing with spotty teenagers in the SF section...
  • NigelbNigelb Posts: 71,236
    Charles said:

    Charles said:

    I see this is the way to smear Mayor Pete.

    https://twitter.com/twlldun/status/1210990781391089664

    The answer to Jubal’s question is “no”

    HIV is a chronic condition that can be easily controlled with a widely available drug regime

    It is no worse than diabetes (and arguably it is a lower risk having someone who is HIV positive as President vs having a diabetic)
    I knew that the newest drug regimes were a massive improvement on the early treatments - it is (excellent) news to me that they are that good.
    Basically it has moved from “this is a sentence of death” to “this is going to be a pain in the butt for the rest of your life” (no pun intended)
    And HIV status is no bar to applying for US citizenship.
  • BenpointerBenpointer Posts: 34,695
    Charles said:

    Re Starmer Are we going to hear from @Charles’s mum anytime soon?

    She won’t blooming well tell me!
    Aargh! Mothers eh, who’d ‘ave ‘em?
This discussion has been closed.