Howdy, Stranger!

It looks like you're new here. Sign in or register to get started.

politicalbetting.com » Blog Archive » Labour’s GE2019 post mortem

24

Comments

  • AlistairAlistair Posts: 23,670
    SunnyJim said:


    Not sure why being a liberal Home Sec is automatically a virtue.

    Michael Howard was an outstanding HS.
    But did he threaten to overrule?
  • SandyRentoolSandyRentool Posts: 21,965
    Alistair said:

    Backed and laid Clive Lewis today to build up my modest green.

    The candidate for those who think RLB is a bit of a Blairite.
  • MexicanpeteMexicanpete Posts: 28,190

    Great thread by Tomas. Brilliant piece.

    I have no idea what Labour are going to do. At present they seem to be in a hole, the digging of which was often their own. It's so bloody deep I'm not entirely sure they will ever get out.

    There are currently too many irreconcilables. Fissures so great no one may span them in a generation, in a century.

    There is one unthinkable solution.

    Split.

    Maybe, but that would give Boris another five years even if he is a dire PM and the economy bombs. Probably 10 years!
  • MexicanpeteMexicanpete Posts: 28,190

    From a slightly different starting point, i think that's a very fair article - thanks Tomas.

    It is!
  • JonathanJonathan Posts: 21,555
    edited December 2019

    Jonathan said:

    kle4 said:

    ydoethur said:

    Cyclefree said:
    Ultimately, Labour has become a movement that doesn’t care about its voters, it cares about feeling smug.

    As a result, its voters have abandoned it, and it is left with smugness.

    They cannot see why constantly thinking themselves the right people to rule Britain and naturally superior to everyone else isn’t appealing to their voters. .
    It's possible for a party to think that and still win elections - Labour are combining that thought without even being able to justify it on the basis of popularity. Lest we forget, the Tories are by far the most popular political party in the UK (though not in some parts of it of course). If you are going to have that arrogance you need to either disguise it, or back it up with success.
    Its remarkable comparing how both parties have reacted to the election result.

    The Tories have won a thumping majority and reacted with humility. The line to take is that they appreciate voters "lent" them their votes and will work hard to make sure they can justify getting the votes again next time.

    Labour have had their worst result since before WWII and have reacted with arrogance saying "we won the argument" and that their policies and manifesto were popular.

    Go figure. I know which I think is the smarter response to the results.
    Beauty is the eye of the beholder. Boris legging it up to gloat in Sedgefield and his smugness today, don’t smack hugely of humility.
    Don't be a sore loser. Celebrating victory isn't gloating.

    What did Boris say while he was in Sedgefield? Did he say "ha ha look at us we won the war criminals old seat" or did he say "thank you for lending us your vote"? One is humble, one is gloating, and without seeing him speak there I can guess which way he will have gone.
    Nah. A gloat’s a gloat. He could not resist. Not that it matters , but save us the humility bullshit.
  • BigRichBigRich Posts: 3,491

    ydoethur said:

    dr_spyn said:

    Costs in that libel case in excess of £1m.

    https://www.theguardian.com/politics/2019/dec/19/ex-labour-mp-anna-turley-awarded-libel-damages-over-union-story?CMP=share_btn_tw

    I have seen a suggestion from a Times journalist that the costs might be closer to £2m. McCluskey take a bow for fouling up big time.

    Ouch. That’s gonna hurt. What happens if - even if they are within their rights to pay the costs - staff have to be let go to make ends meet?

    ydoethur said:

    I don't think the loss of the Turley action will cause him any concern. Presumably the Union will foot the bill.

    I utterly detest the man.

    If Walker is not a member then it should not be footing the bill. I would say as an official in a (different) union, that is a clear misuse of union funds and potentially a criminal offence. They were co-defendants and costs and damages should be split equally.

    Where it becomes complex is I don’t know if Walker was or is a union member.
    Wouldn't it be nice if some seriously fraudulent activity has come to pass. I also think that of Johnson and Arcuri too. Sadly probably not in either case.
    We should be so fecking lucky.
    I can't see McCluskey worrying too much if 50 to 100 salaried staff have to be sacrificed if it means he can continue to dine out at The Ivy.

    That it were always the way, sadly. A distant relative of mine by marriage was Clive Jenkins' very attractive young mistress in the late 1970s and early 1980s.
    Unite the Union have an annual income of £167 Million and accumulated assets of £407 Million so I don't think they will even notice it. (Numbers from the trade union certification officer website)

    It may however be a become a central point in any Union leadership election.

    I would be interested to know was it getting paid out of the general fund or the political fund.
  • SandyRentoolSandyRentool Posts: 21,965
    Jonathan said:

    Jonathan said:

    kle4 said:

    ydoethur said:

    Cyclefree said:
    Ultimately, Labour has become a movement that doesn’t care about its voters, it cares about feeling smug.

    As a result, its voters have abandoned it, and it is left with smugness.

    They cannot see why constantly thinking themselves the right people to rule Britain and naturally superior to everyone else isn’t appealing to their voters. .
    It's possible for a party to think that and still win elections - Labour are combining that thought without even being able to justify it on the basis of popularity. Lest we forget, the Tories are by far the most popular political party in the UK (though not in some parts of it of course). If you are going to have that arrogance you need to either disguise it, or back it up with success.
    Its remarkable comparing how both parties have reacted to the election result.

    The Tories have won a thumping majority and reacted with humility. The line to take is that they appreciate voters "lent" them their votes and will work hard to make sure they can justify getting the votes again next time.

    Labour have had their worst result since before WWII and have reacted with arrogance saying "we won the argument" and that their policies and manifesto were popular.

    Go figure. I know which I think is the smarter response to the results.
    Beauty is the eye of the beholder. Boris legging it up to gloat in Sedgefield and his smugness today, don’t smack hugely of humility.
    Don't be a sore loser. Celebrating victory isn't gloating.

    What did Boris say while he was in Sedgefield? Did he say "ha ha look at us we won the war criminals old seat" or did he say "thank you for lending us your vote"? One is humble, one is gloating, and without seeing him speak there I can guess which way he will have gone.
    Nah. A gloat’s a gloat. He could not resist. Not that it matters , but save us the humility bullshit.
    Bozo also said today that we are entering a new Golden Age. With his education you'd think he'd be familiar with the notion of hubris.
  • MexicanpeteMexicanpete Posts: 28,190
    BigRich said:

    ydoethur said:

    dr_spyn said:

    Costs in that libel case in excess of £1m.

    https://www.theguardian.com/politics/2019/dec/19/ex-labour-mp-anna-turley-awarded-libel-damages-over-union-story?CMP=share_btn_tw

    I have seen a suggestion from a Times journalist that the costs might be closer to £2m. McCluskey take a bow for fouling up big time.

    Ouch. That’s gonna hurt. What happens if - even if they are within their rights to pay the costs - staff have to be let go to make ends meet?

    ydoethur said:

    I don't think the loss of the Turley action will cause him any concern. Presumably the Union will foot the bill.

    I utterly detest the man.

    If Walker is not a member then it should not be footing the bill. I would say as an official in a (different) union, that is a clear misuse of union funds and potentially a criminal offence. They were co-defendants and costs and damages should be split equally.

    Where it becomes complex is I don’t know if Walker was or is a union member.
    Wouldn't it be nice if some seriously fraudulent activity has come to pass. I also think that of Johnson and Arcuri too. Sadly probably not in either case.
    We should be so fecking lucky.
    I can't see McCluskey worrying too much if 50 to 100 salaried staff have to be sacrificed if it means he can continue to dine out at The Ivy.

    That it were always the way, sadly. A distant relative of mine by marriage was Clive Jenkins' very attractive young mistress in the late 1970s and early 1980s.
    Unite the Union have an annual income of £167 Million and accumulated assets of £407 Million so I don't think they will even notice it. (Numbers from the trade union certification officer website)

    It may however be a become a central point in any Union leadership election.

    I would be interested to know was it getting paid out of the general fund or the political fund.
    It shouldn't come from either. But, who would want to deprive Len of his next pint of Moet at The Ivy?
  • felixfelix Posts: 15,147
    Jonathan said:

    Jonathan said:

    kle4 said:

    ydoethur said:

    Cyclefree said:
    Ultimately, Labour has become a movement that doesn’t care about its voters, it cares about feeling smug.

    As a result, its voters have abandoned it, and it is left with smugness.

    They cannot see why constantly thinking themselves the right people to rule Britain and naturally superior to everyone else isn’t appealing to their voters. .
    It's possible for a party to think that and still win elections - Labour are combining that thought without even being able to justify it on the basis of popularity. Lest we forget, the Tories are by far the most popular political party in the UK (though not in some parts of it of course). If you are going to have that arrogance you need to either disguise it, or back it up with success.
    Its remarkable comparing how both parties have reacted to the election result.

    The Tories have won a thumping majority and reacted with humility. The line to take is that they appreciate voters "lent" them their votes and will work hard to make sure they can justify getting the votes again next time.

    Labour have had their worst result since before WWII and have reacted with arrogance saying "we won the argument" and that their policies and manifesto were popular.

    Go figure. I know which I think is the smarter response to the results.
    Beauty is the eye of the beholder. Boris legging it up to gloat in Sedgefield and his smugness today, don’t smack hugely of humility.
    Don't be a sore loser. Celebrating victory isn't gloating.

    What did Boris say while he was in Sedgefield? Did he say "ha ha look at us we won the war criminals old seat" or did he say "thank you for lending us your vote"? One is humble, one is gloating, and without seeing him speak there I can guess which way he will have gone.
    Nah. A gloat’s a gloat. He could not resist. Not that it matters , but save us the humility bullshit.
    Totally sore loser. suck it up.
  • ydoethurydoethur Posts: 71,154

    Bozo also said today that we are entering a new Golden Age. With his education you'd think he'd be familiar with the notion of hubris.

    But I don’t think anyone expects him to last long now he’s won his majority. I give him until 2022 at the latest. After that even if he doesn’t decide he wants to earn lots of lovely lolly on the US lecture circuit, he will almost certainly make some extraordinary career-ending cock up and be ditched faster than a Labour pledge to be tough on anti-Semitism.
  • SunnyJim said:


    Not sure why being a liberal Home Sec is automatically a virtue.

    Michael Howard was an outstanding HS.
    But didn't he threaten to overrule someone?
    Peepil are Peepil!
  • JonathanJonathan Posts: 21,555
    felix said:

    Jonathan said:

    Jonathan said:

    kle4 said:

    ydoethur said:

    Cyclefree said:
    Ultimately, Labour has become a movement that doesn’t care about its voters, it cares about feeling smug.

    As a result, its voters have abandoned it, and it is left with smugness.

    They cannot see why constantly thinking themselves the right people to rule Britain and naturally superior to everyone else isn’t appealing to their voters. .
    It's possible for a party to think that and still win elections - Labour are combining that thought without even being able to justify it on the basis of popularity. Lest we forget, the Tories are by far the most popular political party in the UK (though not in some parts of it of course). If you are going to have that arrogance you need to either disguise it, or back it up with success.
    Its remarkable comparing how both parties have reacted to the election result.

    The Tories have won a thumping majority and reacted with humility. The line to take is that they appreciate voters "lent" them their votes and will work hard to make sure they can justify getting the votes again next time.

    Labour have had their worst result since before WWII and have reacted with arrogance saying "we won the argument" and that their policies and manifesto were popular.

    Go figure. I know which I think is the smarter response to the results.
    Beauty is the eye of the beholder. Boris legging it up to gloat in Sedgefield and his smugness today, don’t smack hugely of humility.
    Don't be a sore loser. Celebrating victory isn't gloating.

    What did Boris say while he was in Sedgefield? Did he say "ha ha look at us we won the war criminals old seat" or did he say "thank you for lending us your vote"? One is humble, one is gloating, and without seeing him speak there I can guess which way he will have gone.
    Nah. A gloat’s a gloat. He could not resist. Not that it matters , but save us the humility bullshit.
    Totally sore loser. suck it up.
    I truly don’t care. Just not buying the humility spin.
  • Jonathan said:

    Jonathan said:

    kle4 said:

    ydoethur said:

    Cyclefree said:
    Ultimately, Labour has become a movement that doesn’t care about its voters, it cares about feeling smug.

    As a result, its voters have abandoned it, and it is left with smugness.

    They cannot see why constantly thinking themselves the right people to rule Britain and naturally superior to everyone else isn’t appealing to their voters. .
    It's possible for a party to think that and still win elections - Labour are combining that thought without even being able to justify it on the basis of popularity. Lest we forget, the Tories are by far the most popular political party in the UK (though not in some parts of it of course). If you are going to have that arrogance you need to either disguise it, or back it up with success.
    Its remarkable comparing how both parties have reacted to the election result.

    The Tories have won a thumping majority and reacted with humility. The line to take is that they appreciate voters "lent" them their votes and will work hard to make sure they can justify getting the votes again next time.

    Labour have had their worst result since before WWII and have reacted with arrogance saying "we won the argument" and that their policies and manifesto were popular.

    Go figure. I know which I think is the smarter response to the results.
    Beauty is the eye of the beholder. Boris legging it up to gloat in Sedgefield and his smugness today, don’t smack hugely of humility.
    Don't be a sore loser. Celebrating victory isn't gloating.

    What did Boris say while he was in Sedgefield? Did he say "ha ha look at us we won the war criminals old seat" or did he say "thank you for lending us your vote"? One is humble, one is gloating, and without seeing him speak there I can guess which way he will have gone.
    Nah. A gloat’s a gloat. He could not resist. Not that it matters , but save us the humility bullshit.
    Tories 365
    Lab 202

    :innocent:
  • CyclefreeCyclefree Posts: 25,269

    Priti Patel is keeping the seat warm for Victoria Atkins.

    (I could add that she is well equipped for keeping seats warm, but that would be an inappropriate thing to say.)

    Not at all. Entirely accurate. I may well steal that line. :)
  • ydoethurydoethur Posts: 71,154
    Alistair said:

    SunnyJim said:


    Not sure why being a liberal Home Sec is automatically a virtue.

    Michael Howard was an outstanding HS.
    But did he threaten to overrule?
    What was, in its own way, rather nice about that was that they both felt able to joke about it later:
    https://youtu.be/I7WmVamlfWM
  • MexicanpeteMexicanpete Posts: 28,190
    ydoethur said:

    Bozo also said today that we are entering a new Golden Age. With his education you'd think he'd be familiar with the notion of hubris.

    But I don’t think anyone expects him to last long now he’s won his majority. I give him until 2022 at the latest. After that even if he doesn’t decide he wants to earn lots of lovely lolly on the US lecture circuit, he will almost certainly make some extraordinary career-ending cock up and be ditched faster than a Labour pledge to be tough on anti-Semitism.
    I still have high hopes Ms Arcuri's windfalls will do the business for us. Ever the optimist!
  • SandyRentoolSandyRentool Posts: 21,965
    ydoethur said:

    Bozo also said today that we are entering a new Golden Age. With his education you'd think he'd be familiar with the notion of hubris.

    But I don’t think anyone expects him to last long now he’s won his majority. I give him until 2022 at the latest. After that even if he doesn’t decide he wants to earn lots of lovely lolly on the US lecture circuit, he will almost certainly make some extraordinary career-ending cock up and be ditched faster than a Labour pledge to be tough on anti-Semitism.
    I agree. End of 2021 latest for some scandal or cockup to engulf him.

  • MexicanpeteMexicanpete Posts: 28,190

    Jonathan said:

    Jonathan said:

    kle4 said:

    ydoethur said:

    Cyclefree said:
    Ultimately, Labour has become a movement that doesn’t care about its voters, it cares about feeling smug.

    As a result, its voters have abandoned it, and it is left with smugness.

    They cannot see why constantly thinking themselves the right people to rule Britain and naturally superior to everyone else isn’t appealing to their voters. .
    It's possible for a party to think that and still win elections - Labour are combining that thought without even being able to justify it on the basis of popularity. Lest we forget, the Tories are by far the most popular political party in the UK (though not in some parts of it of course). If you are going to have that arrogance you need to either disguise it, or back it up with success.
    Its remarkable comparing how both parties have reacted to the election result.

    The Tories have won a thumping majority and reacted with humility. The line to take is that they appreciate voters "lent" them their votes and will work hard to make sure they can justify getting the votes again next time.

    Labour have had their worst result since before WWII and have reacted with arrogance saying "we won the argument" and that their policies and manifesto were popular.

    Go figure. I know which I think is the smarter response to the results.
    Beauty is the eye of the beholder. Boris legging it up to gloat in Sedgefield and his smugness today, don’t smack hugely of humility.
    Don't be a sore loser. Celebrating victory isn't gloating.

    What did Boris say while he was in Sedgefield? Did he say "ha ha look at us we won the war criminals old seat" or did he say "thank you for lending us your vote"? One is humble, one is gloating, and without seeing him speak there I can guess which way he will have gone.
    Nah. A gloat’s a gloat. He could not resist. Not that it matters , but save us the humility bullshit.
    Tories 365
    Lab 202

    :innocent:
    Can you do us a graph please?
  • ydoethurydoethur Posts: 71,154

    Jonathan said:

    Jonathan said:

    kle4 said:

    ydoethur said:

    Cyclefree said:
    Ultimately, Labour has become a movement that doesn’t care about its voters, it cares about feeling smug.

    As a result, its voters have abandoned it, and it is left with smugness.

    They cannot see why constantly thinking themselves the right people to rule Britain and naturally superior to everyone else isn’t appealing to their voters. .
    It's possible for a party to think that and still win elections - Labour are combining that thought without even being able to justify it on the basis of popularity. Lest we forget, the Tories are by far the most popular political party in the UK (though not in some parts of it of course). If you are going to have that arrogance you need to either disguise it, or back it up with success.
    Its remarkable comparing how both parties have reacted to the election result.

    The Tories have won a thumping majority and reacted with humility. The line to take is that they appreciate voters "lent" them their votes and will work hard to make sure they can justify getting the votes again next time.

    Labour have had their worst result since before WWII and have reacted with arrogance saying "we won the argument" and that their policies and manifesto were popular.

    Go figure. I know which I think is the smarter response to the results.
    Beauty is the eye of the beholder. Boris legging it up to gloat in Sedgefield and his smugness today, don’t smack hugely of humility.
    Don't be a sore loser. Celebrating victory isn't gloating.

    What did Boris say while he was in Sedgefield? Did he say "ha ha look at us we won the war criminals old seat" or did he say "thank you for lending us your vote"? One is humble, one is gloating, and without seeing him speak there I can guess which way he will have gone.
    Nah. A gloat’s a gloat. He could not resist. Not that it matters , but save us the humility bullshit.
    Tories 365
    Lab 202

    :innocent:
    Can you do us a graph please?
    Aaaaargh! Why did you have to suggest that? Just when we were getting him past that stage...
  • SandyRentoolSandyRentool Posts: 21,965

    Jonathan said:

    Jonathan said:

    kle4 said:

    ydoethur said:

    Cyclefree said:
    Ultimately, Labour has become a movement that doesn’t care about its voters, it cares about feeling smug.

    As a result, its voters have abandoned it, and it is left with smugness.

    They cannot see why constantly thinking themselves the right people to rule Britain and naturally superior to everyone else isn’t appealing to their voters. .
    It's possible for a party to think that and still win elections - Labour are combining that thought without even being able to justify it on the basis of popularity. Lest we forget, the Tories are by far the most popular political party in the UK (though not in some parts of it of course). If you are going to have that arrogance you need to either disguise it, or back it up with success.
    Its remarkable comparing how both parties have reacted to the election result.

    The Tories have won a thumping majority and reacted with humility. The line to take is that they appreciate voters "lent" them their votes and will work hard to make sure they can justify getting the votes again next time.

    Labour have had their worst result since before WWII and have reacted with arrogance saying "we won the argument" and that their policies and manifesto were popular.

    Go figure. I know which I think is the smarter response to the results.
    Beauty is the eye of the beholder. Boris legging it up to gloat in Sedgefield and his smugness today, don’t smack hugely of humility.
    Don't be a sore loser. Celebrating victory isn't gloating.

    What did Boris say while he was in Sedgefield? Did he say "ha ha look at us we won the war criminals old seat" or did he say "thank you for lending us your vote"? One is humble, one is gloating, and without seeing him speak there I can guess which way he will have gone.
    Nah. A gloat’s a gloat. He could not resist. Not that it matters , but save us the humility bullshit.
    Tories 365
    Lab 202

    :innocent:
    Serious question Sunil - when did you become a Tory?
  • MexicanpeteMexicanpete Posts: 28,190
    edited December 2019
    BigRich said:

    ydoethur said:

    dr_spyn said:

    Costs in that libel case in excess of £1m.

    https://www.theguardian.com/politics/2019/dec/19/ex-labour-mp-anna-turley-awarded-libel-damages-over-union-story?CMP=share_btn_tw

    I have seen a suggestion from a Times journalist that the costs might be closer to £2m. McCluskey take a bow for fouling up big time.

    Ouch. That’s gonna hurt. What happens if - even if they are within their rights to pay the costs - staff have to be let go to make ends meet?

    ydoethur said:

    I don't think the loss of the Turley action will cause him any concern. Presumably the Union will foot the bill.

    I utterly detest the man.

    If Walker is not a member then it should not be footing the bill. I would say as an official in a (different) union, that is a clear misuse of union funds and potentially a criminal offence. They were co-defendants and costs and damages should be split equally.

    Where it becomes complex is I don’t know if Walker was or is a union member.
    Wouldn't it be nice if some seriously fraudulent activity has come to pass. I also think that of Johnson and Arcuri too. Sadly probably not in either case.
    We should be so fecking lucky.
    I can't see McCluskey worrying too much if 50 to 100 salaried staff have to be sacrificed if it means he can continue to dine out at The Ivy.

    That it were always the way, sadly. A distant relative of mine by marriage was Clive Jenkins' very attractive young mistress in the late 1970s and early 1980s.
    Unite the Union have an annual income of £167 Million and accumulated assets of £407 Million so I don't think they will even notice it. (Numbers from the trade union certification officer website)

    It may however be a become a central point in any Union leadership election.

    I would be interested to know was it getting paid out of the general fund or the political fund.
    Union leadership election? Didn't McCluskey have his vanquished opponent sent to the gulags last time around?
  • ParistondaParistonda Posts: 1,843
    Clive Lewis running for leader does have 1 positive, he's in favour of PR. I propose all Lib Dems launch an entryist campaign into Labour to get him elected.
  • payniepaynie Posts: 3
    edited December 2019
    https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=s7Yzy6Rqrmc

    Dr David Starkey on Brexit, and the current state of the Conservative and Labour parties. As usual, he is faultlessly on the button. What an intellect.
  • kle4kle4 Posts: 95,870
    ydoethur said:

    Jonathan said:

    Jonathan said:

    kle4 said:

    ydoethur said:

    Cyclefree said:
    Ultimately, Labour has become a movement that doesn’t care about its voters, it cares about feeling smug.

    As a result, its voters have abandoned it, and it is left with smugness.

    They cannot see why constantly thinking themselves the right people to rule Britain and naturally superior to everyone else isn’t appealing to their voters. .
    It's possible for a party to think that and still win elections - Labour are combining that thought without even being able to justify it on the basis of popularity. Lest we forget, the Tories are by far the most popular political party in the UK (though not in some parts of it of course). If you are going to have that arrogance you need to either disguise it, or back it up with success.
    Its remarkable comparing how both parties have reacted to the election result.

    The Tories have won a thumping majority and reacted with humility. The line to take is that they appreciate voters "lent" them their votes and will work hard to make sure they can justify getting the votes again next time.

    Labour have had their worst result since before WWII and have reacted with arrogance saying "we won the argument" and that their policies and manifesto were popular.

    Go figure. I know which I think is the smarter response to the results.
    Beauty is the eye of the beholder. Boris legging it up to gloat in Sedgefield and his smugness today, don’t smack hugely of humility.
    Don't be a sore loser. Celebrating victory isn't gloating.

    What did Boris say while he was in Sedgefield? Did he say "ha ha look at us we won the war criminals old seat" or did he say "thank you for lending us your vote"? One is humble, one is gloating, and without seeing him speak there I can guess which way he will have gone.
    Nah. A gloat’s a gloat. He could not resist. Not that it matters , but save us the humility bullshit.
    Tories 365
    Lab 202

    :innocent:
    Can you do us a graph please?
    Aaaaargh! Why did you have to suggest that? Just when we were getting him past that stage...
    Fish have to swim.
    Sunil's have to graph.
    Ydoethur's have to pun.

    You cannot fight nature, my friend.
  • RobDRobD Posts: 59,823

    SunnyJim said:


    Not sure why being a liberal Home Sec is automatically a virtue.

    Michael Howard was an outstanding HS.
    But didn't he threaten to overrule someone?
    I heard that he didn't overrule anyone.
  • kle4kle4 Posts: 95,870
    paynie said:

    https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=s7Yzy6Rqrmc

    Dr David Starkey on Brexit, and the current state of the Conservative and Labour parties. As usual, he is faultlessly on the button. What an intellect.

    He's a great speaker, but he does say the AV referendum was around 'some form of PR'.
  • HYUFD said:
    Boris looks like he has furtively slipped the aforementioned wasp down the unwitting Corbyn's trousers!
    On election night, when Corbyn already knew his party had just been thoroughly and summarily thwonked, he still had to face the count in his own - foregone conclusion - constituency. In a piece of glorious political trolling, as Farage is wont to do, the Brexit Party were running a Jewish candidate against him (kippah and all). I wondered if there might have been a bit of acrimony in the Islington campaign with TBP trying to exploit the Labour anti-semitism row, but in one of the more heart-warmingly surprising moments of election night, the two candidates were laughing and joking with each other on the stage. Not the side of Corbyn we saw today at all!

    Courtesy of the Jewish Chronicle, we now know what they were joking about ...

    Jeremy Corbyn joked that he would seek employment as a Boris Johnson impersonator after receiving Thursday night’s exit poll that predicted a heavy defeat for Labour.

    Speaking to the Sunday Times, Brexit Party candidate Yosef David – who took on Mr Corbyn in his Islington North constituency – said that Mr Corbyn had been “incredibly friendly” at the count.

    “He did a funny Boris impression,” Mr David said. “We had a bit of a laugh.”


    On the other hand, he didn't take too kindly to Corbyn's claim in his speech that Labour "did not descend into the gutter"!

    https://twitter.com/RabbiZvi/status/1205941700860039168?
  • ydoethurydoethur Posts: 71,154

    BigRich said:

    ydoethur said:

    dr_spyn said:

    Costs in that libel case in excess of £1m.

    https://www.theguardian.com/politics/2019/dec/19/ex-labour-mp-anna-turley-awarded-libel-damages-over-union-story?CMP=share_btn_tw

    I have seen a suggestion from a Times journalist that the costs might be closer to £2m. McCluskey take a bow for fouling up big time.

    Ouch. That’s gonna hurt. What happens if - even if they are within their rights to pay the costs - staff have to be let go to make ends meet?

    ydoethur said:

    I don't think the loss of the Turley action will cause him any concern. Presumably the Union will foot the bill.

    I utterly detest the man.

    If Walker is not a member then it should not be footing the bill. I would say as an official in a (different) union, that is a clear misuse of union funds and potentially a criminal offence. They were co-defendants and costs and damages should be split equally.

    Where it becomes complex is I don’t know if Walker was or is a union member.
    Wouldn't it be nice if some seriously fraudulent activity has come to pass. I also think that of Johnson and Arcuri too. Sadly probably not in either case.
    We should be so fecking lucky.
    I can't see McCluskey worrying too much if 50 to 100 salaried staff have to be sacrificed if it means he can continue to dine out at The Ivy.

    That it were always the way, sadly. A distant relative of mine by marriage was Clive Jenkins' very attractive young mistress in the late 1970s and early 1980s.
    Unite the Union have an annual income of £167 Million and accumulated assets of £407 Million so I don't think they will even notice it. (Numbers from the trade union certification officer website)

    It may however be a become a central point in any Union leadership election.

    I would be interested to know was it getting paid out of the general fund or the political fund.
    Union leadership election? Didn't McCluskey have his vanquished opponent sent to the gulags last time around?
    Yes:

    https://www.bbc.co.uk/news/uk-politics-40345438
  • Clive Lewis running for leader does have 1 positive, he's in favour of PR. I propose all Lib Dems launch an entryist campaign into Labour to get him elected.

    Starmer has drifted today. Have I missed something?
  • ydoethurydoethur Posts: 71,154

    Clive Lewis running for leader does have 1 positive, he's in favour of PR. I propose all Lib Dems launch an entryist campaign into Labour to get him elected.

    Starmer has drifted today. Have I missed something?
    He drifts everyday, it’s one reason why his time as DPP was a disaster.

    Oh, sorry, you meant his odds?
  • paynie said:

    https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=s7Yzy6Rqrmc

    Dr David Starkey on Brexit, and the current state of the Conservative and Labour parties. As usual, he is faultlessly on the button. What an intellect.

    His takedown of the awful public school toytown Trot Laurie Penny is one of the greatest things I have ever seen.
  • EndillionEndillion Posts: 4,976

    Clive Lewis running for leader does have 1 positive, he's in favour of PR. I propose all Lib Dems launch an entryist campaign into Labour to get him elected.

    Starmer has drifted today. Have I missed something?
    No, he was just far too short before.
  • Jonathan said:

    Jonathan said:

    kle4 said:

    ydoethur said:

    Cyclefree said:
    Ultimately, Labour has become a movement that doesn’t care about its voters, it cares about feeling smug.

    As a result, its voters have abandoned it, and it is left with smugness.

    They cannot see why constantly thinking themselves the right people to rule Britain and naturally superior to everyone else isn’t appealing to their voters. .
    It's possible for a party to think that and still win elections - Labour are combining that thought without even being able to justify it on the basis of popularity. Lest we forget, the Tories are by far the most popular political party in the UK (though not in some parts of it of course). If you are going to have that arrogance you need to either disguise it, or back it up with success.
    Its remarkable comparing how both parties have reacted to the election result.

    The Tories have won a thumping majority and reacted with humility. The line to take is that they appreciate voters "lent" them their votes and will work hard to make sure they can justify getting the votes again next time.

    Labour have had their worst result since before WWII and have reacted with arrogance saying "we won the argument" and that their policies and manifesto were popular.

    Go figure. I know which I think is the smarter response to the results.
    Beauty is the eye of the beholder. Boris legging it up to gloat in Sedgefield and his smugness today, don’t smack hugely of humility.
    Don't be a sore loser. Celebrating victory isn't gloating.
    Nah. A gloat’s a gloat. He could not resist. Not that it matters , but save us the humility bullshit.
    Tories 365
    Lab 202

    :innocent:
    Serious question Sunil - when did you become a Tory?
    Some say Sunil voted Tory in the 2019 General Election, or that he first voted Tory in the 2017 election, whilst others state it was at the 2010 election. Obscure, but supposedly reliable reports say he actually first voted for Boris for London Mayor way back in 2008, in a tentative manner - he couldn't actually bring himself to vote Tory in the concurrent London Assembly vote and voted LibDem.
  • kle4 said:

    ydoethur said:

    Jonathan said:

    Jonathan said:

    kle4 said:

    ydoethur said:

    Cyclefree said:
    Ultimately, Labour has become a movement that doesn’t care about its voters, it cares about feeling smug.

    As a result, its voters have abandoned it, and it is left with smugness.

    They cannot see why constantly thinking themselves the right people to rule Britain and naturally superior to everyone else isn’t appealing to their voters. .
    It's possible for a party to think that and still win elections - Labour are combining that thought without even being able to justify it on the basis of popularity. Lest we forget, the Tories are by far the most popular political party in the UK (though not in some parts of it of course). If you are going to have that arrogance you need to either disguise it, or back it up with success.
    Its remarkable comparing how both parties have reacted to the election result.

    The Tories have won a thumping majority and reacted with humility. The line to take is that they appreciate voters "lent" them their votes and will work hard to make sure they can justify getting the votes again next time.

    Labour have had their worst result since before WWII and have reacted with arrogance saying "we won the argument" and that their policies and manifesto were popular.

    Go figure. I know which I think is the smarter response to the results.
    Beauty is the eye of the beholder. Boris legging it up to gloat in Sedgefield and his smugness today, don’t smack hugely of humility.
    Don't be a sore loser. Celebrating victory isn't gloating.
    Nah. A gloat’s a gloat. He could not resist. Not that it matters , but save us the humility bullshit.
    Tories 365
    Lab 202

    :innocent:
    Can you do us a graph please?
    Aaaaargh! Why did you have to suggest that? Just when we were getting him past that stage...
    Fish have to swim.
    Sunil's have to graph.
    Ydoethur's have to pun.

    You cannot fight nature, my friend.
    Sunils have to route-bash, surely.

    (planning to capture - on camera! - the West Midlands Metro to Birmingham Library, and the Stockport to Guide Bridge train within the next couple of weeks)
  • CookieCookie Posts: 13,585
    kle4 said:

    Great thread by Tomas. Brilliant piece.

    I have no idea what Labour are going to do. At present they seem to be in a hole, the digging of which was often their own. It's so bloody deep I'm not entirely sure they will ever get out.

    There are currently too many irreconcilables. Fissures so great no one may span them in a generation, in a century.

    There is one unthinkable solution.

    Split.

    The time for that has come and gone. That people are being encouraged to join it now to secure the 'right' leader is in recognition that it's Labour or nothing for most people. ....
    I find this so bloody frustrating.
    I have voted Conservative at the last 5 elections. Not because I have any great faith or enthusiasm for them or their views; not because the Labour party candidates have been rubbish (I have a lot of time for my MP in Wyth and Sale E and my previous MP in Broxtowe in the 00s) but because Labour is infected with such bloody nutters. I can't vote for a party which contains elements like Corbyn and McDonnell and Abbott. I couldn't even before they were in charge of the party. But the fact that a sizeable part of the membership clearly thinks this lot are the way to go is just depressing beyond belief.
    If the split had come at any point in the last two years, we would have the core a very attractive opposition party. A party which could hold the government to account on its competence, rather than just shrieking about how unspeakable they are. And we could have left the nutters on the margins howling at the moon. Instead of which we had a half-baked attempt at a split, which Tom Watson battered down before giving the fight up himself.

    That said, I still think a split is the better way to go for the majority of sane MPs. It will be a much harder fight back than it would have been had it happened 2 years ago. Labour might elect a Kinnock for the 20s who does the hard work of purging the hard left over again, but it looks less likely now than it did in the 80s; the cancer appears to have more firmly taken hold. But the upside is that a more-obviously insane Labour party is more easily sidelined than the SDP found in the 80s. Come on Labour MPs - you have nothing to lose. At least, you have less to lose than you do by staying.
  • kle4kle4 Posts: 95,870

    kle4 said:

    ydoethur said:

    Jonathan said:

    Jonathan said:

    kle4 said:

    ydoethur said:

    Cyclefree said:
    Ultimately, Labour has become a movement that doesn’t care about its voters, it cares about feeling smug.

    As a result, its voters have abandoned it, and it is left with smugness.

    They cannot see why constantly thinking themselves the right people to rule Britain and naturally superior to everyone else isn’t appealing to their voters. .
    It's possible for a party to think that access.
    Its remarkable comparing how both parties have reacted to the election result.

    The Tories have won a thumping majority and reacted with humility. The line to take is that they appreciate voters "lent" them their votes and will work hard to make sure they can justify getting the votes again next time.

    Labour have had their worst result since before WWII and have reacted with arrogance saying "we won the argument" and that their policies and manifesto were popular.

    Go figure. I know which I think is the smarter response to the results.
    Beauty is the eye of the beholder. Boris legging it up to gloat in Sedgefield and his smugness today, don’t smack hugely of humility.
    Don't be a sore loser. Celebrating victory isn't gloating.
    Nah. A gloat’s a gloat. He could not resist. Not that it matters , but save us the humility bullshit.
    Tories 365
    Lab 202

    :innocent:
    Can you do us a graph please?
    Aaaaargh! Why did you have to suggest that? Just when we were getting him past that stage...
    Fish have to swim.
    Sunil's have to graph.
    Ydoethur's have to pun.

    You cannot fight nature, my friend.
    Sunils have to route-bash, surely.

    (planning to capture - on camera! - the West Midlands Metro to Birmingham Library, and the Stockport to Guide Bridge train within the next couple of weeks)
    Scientists have yet to adequately capture the totality of your nature, good Dr Prasannan, I am sure.
  • Ave_itAve_it Posts: 2,411
    Good news

    LAB will never win a GE again!

    Good news for those posters on here who have worked for what for they have got!!

    Keep it right wing!!!
  • eekeek Posts: 28,077
    Andrew Bailey is the new Bank of England Governor
  • Ave_itAve_it Posts: 2,411
    Most useless self centred group ever - thanks for coming!

    https://www.bbc.co.uk/news/uk-politics-50858811
  • CookieCookie Posts: 13,585

    kle4 said:

    ydoethur said:

    Jonathan said:

    Jonathan said:

    kle4 said:

    ydoethur said:

    Cyclefree said:
    Ultimately, Labour has become a movement that doesn’t care about its voters, it cares about feeling smug.

    As a result, its voters have abandoned it, and it is left with smugness.

    They cannot see why constantly thinking themselves the right people to rule Britain and naturally superior to everyone else isn’t appealing to their voters. .
    It's possible for a party to think that and still win elections - Labour are combining that thought without even being able to justify it on the basis of popularity. Lest we forget, the Tories are by far the most popular political party in the UK (though not in some parts of it of course). If you are going to have that arrogance you need to either disguise it, or back it up with success.
    Its remarkable comparing how both parties have reacted to the election result.

    The Tories have won a thumping majority and reacted with humility. The line to take is that they appreciate voters "lent" them their votes and will work hard to make sure they can justify getting the votes again next time.

    Labour have had their worst result since before WWII and have reacted with arrogance saying "we won the argument" and that their policies and manifesto were popular.

    Go figure. I know which I think is the smarter response to the results.
    Beauty is the eye of the beholder. Boris legging it up to gloat in Sedgefield and his smugness today, don’t smack hugely of humility.
    Don't be a sore loser. Celebrating victory isn't gloating.
    Nah. A gloat’s a gloat. He could not resist. Not that it matters , but save us the humility bullshit.
    Tories 365
    Lab 202

    :innocent:
    Can you do us a graph please?
    Aaaaargh! Why did you have to suggest that? Just when we were getting him past that stage...
    Fish have to swim.
    Sunil's have to graph.
    Ydoethur's have to pun.

    You cannot fight nature, my friend.
    Sunils have to route-bash, surely.

    (planning to capture - on camera! - the West Midlands Metro to Birmingham Library, and the Stockport to Guide Bridge train within the next couple of weeks)
    Everyone loves a bit of Reddish South...
  • kle4kle4 Posts: 95,870
    Starkey criticised the Lords being stuffed with failed politicians. Thank goodness Boris is sorting that out.
  • CookieCookie Posts: 13,585
    Ave_it said:

    Good news

    LAB will never win a GE again!

    Good news for those posters on here who have worked for what for they have got!!

    Keep it right wing!!!

    I'm reminded of the 'pb Tories have only two modes' trope.
    Me, I'm hoping for a recovery of the left, through either a split and a new party, or, even less plausibly, someone sane taking over the Labour Party. I don't ever want to be feeling like I was a two minutes to ten on the 12th of December 2019 again. The Tories won't always be in power - lets hope there's someone of sound mind to replace them when the time comes.
    [i.e. I'm still in pb Tory panic mode. Albeit now a gratifyingly long-term panic]
  • Cookie said:

    kle4 said:

    ydoethur said:

    Jonathan said:

    Jonathan said:

    kle4 said:

    ydoethur said:

    Cyclefree said:
    Ultimately, Labour has become a movement that doesn’t care about its voters, it cares about feeling smug.

    As a result, its voters have abandoned it, and it is left with smugness.

    They cannot see why constantly thinking themselves the right people to rule Britain and naturally superior to everyone else isn’t appealing to their voters. .
    It's possible for a party to think that and still win elections - Labour are combining that thought without even being able to justify it on the basis of popularity. Lest we forget, the Tories are by far the most popular political party in the UK (though not in some parts of it of course). If you are going to have that arrogance you need to either disguise it, or back it up with success.

    Go figure. I know which I think is the smarter response to the results.
    Beauty is the eye of the beholder. Boris legging it up to gloat in Sedgefield and his smugness today, don’t smack hugely of humility.
    Don't be a sore loser. Celebrating victory isn't gloating.
    Nah. A gloat’s a gloat. He could not resist. Not that it matters , but save us the humility bullshit.
    Tories 365
    Lab 202

    :innocent:
    Can you do us a graph please?
    Aaaaargh! Why did you have to suggest that? Just when we were getting him past that stage...
    Fish have to swim.
    Sunil's have to graph.
    Ydoethur's have to pun.

    You cannot fight nature, my friend.
    Sunils have to route-bash, surely.

    (planning to capture - on camera! - the West Midlands Metro to Birmingham Library, and the Stockport to Guide Bridge train within the next couple of weeks)
    Everyone loves a bit of Reddish South...
    Denton too!
  • NickPalmerNickPalmer Posts: 21,503
    Reading Clive Lewis's article, he's not as some suggest standing as an uber-Corbynite, he's standing as a centre-left pact man - not just ultra-keen on the EU but in favour of PR. I can actually see an electoral pact resulting if he were the leader.

    Doesn't mean I'll vote for him, but it's an interesting new angle.
  • AlistairAlistair Posts: 23,670
  • kle4 said:

    Starkey criticised the Lords being stuffed with failed politicians. Thank goodness Boris is sorting that out.

    House of Unelected Has-Beens!
  • Exactly one week ago

    Boris

    368
  • Exactly one week ago

    Boris

    368

    Only three seats out!
  • Exactly one week ago

    Boris

    368

    Only three seats out!
    That in itself is amazing
  • MexicanpeteMexicanpete Posts: 28,190
    Ave_it said:

    Most useless self centred group ever - thanks for coming!

    https://www.bbc.co.uk/news/uk-politics-50858811

    I was quite excited by the prospect of they're ascendency. It all came back down to earth with a bump unfortunately.
  • Who was the black gentleman carrying the mace/walking behind White Rod?
  • Ave_it said:

    Most useless self centred group ever - thanks for coming!

    https://www.bbc.co.uk/news/uk-politics-50858811

    I was quite excited by the prospect of they're ascendency. It all came back down to earth with a bump unfortunately.
    Mike Gapes only came third in Ilford South :lol:
  • Reading Clive Lewis's article, he's not as some suggest standing as an uber-Corbynite, he's standing as a centre-left pact man - not just ultra-keen on the EU but in favour of PR. I can actually see an electoral pact resulting if he were the leader.

    Doesn't mean I'll vote for him, but it's an interesting new angle.

    Any word on Yvette yet?
  • MexicanpeteMexicanpete Posts: 28,190

    kle4 said:

    Starkey criticised the Lords being stuffed with failed politicians. Thank goodness Boris is sorting that out.

    House of Unelected Has-Beens!
    Wash your mouth out. Zac is in the HoL now!
  • kle4 said:

    Starkey criticised the Lords being stuffed with failed politicians. Thank goodness Boris is sorting that out.

    House of Unelected Has-Beens!
    Wash your mouth out. Zac is in the HoL now!
    I rest my case :lol:
  • TheuniondivvieTheuniondivvie Posts: 41,798
    edited December 2019

    Lord Zac is a 'leading conservationist' according to the BBC Radio 2 news. Well?

    He's been a marvellous conservationist of his career.
  • ParistondaParistonda Posts: 1,843
    kle4 said:

    Starkey criticised the Lords being stuffed with failed politicians. Thank goodness Boris is sorting that out.

    I can't pretend it would annoy me if say Jo Swinson got put in the Lords so I'm not too bothered by Goldsmith and Morgan. In any case I suspect he has done this to avoid any sort of reshuffle now, and both will be for the chop when he does his big rollover reshuffle after Brexit.
  • ydoethur said:

    BigRich said:

    ydoethur said:

    dr_spyn said:

    Costs in that libel case in excess of £1m.

    https://www.theguardian.com/politics/2019/dec/19/ex-labour-mp-anna-turley-awarded-libel-damages-over-union-story?CMP=share_btn_tw

    I have seen a suggestion from a Times journalist that the costs might be closer to £2m. McCluskey take a bow for fouling up big time.

    Ouch. That’s gonna hurt. What happens if - even if they are within their rights to pay the costs - staff have to be let go to make ends meet?

    ydoethur said:

    I don't think the loss of the Turley action will cause him any concern. Presumably the Union will foot the bill.

    I utterly detest the man.

    If Walker is not a member then it should not be footing the bill. I would say as an official in a (different) union, that is a clear misuse of union funds and potentially a criminal offence. They were co-defendants and costs and damages should be split equally.

    Where it becomes complex is I don’t know if Walker was or is a union member.
    Wouldn't it be nice if some seriously fraudulent activity has come to pass. I also think that of Johnson and Arcuri too. Sadly probably not in either case.
    We should be so fecking lucky.
    I can't see McCluskey worrying too much if 50 to 100 salaried staff have to be sacrificed if it means he can continue to dine out at The Ivy.

    That it were always the way, sadly. A distant relative of mine by marriage was Clive Jenkins' very attractive young mistress in the late 1970s and early 1980s.
    Unite the Union have an annual income of £167 Million and accumulated assets of £407 Million so I don't think they will even notice it. (Numbers from the trade union certification officer website)

    It may however be a become a central point in any Union leadership election.

    I would be interested to know was it getting paid out of the general fund or the political fund.
    Union leadership election? Didn't McCluskey have his vanquished opponent sent to the gulags last time around?
    Yes:

    https://www.bbc.co.uk/news/uk-politics-40345438
    "but the union has reportedly paid all the journalist’s legal fees."
  • kle4 said:

    Starkey criticised the Lords being stuffed with failed politicians. Thank goodness Boris is sorting that out.

    I can't pretend it would annoy me if say Jo Swinson got put in the Lords so I'm not too bothered by Goldsmith and Morgan. In any case I suspect he has done this to avoid any sort of reshuffle now, and both will be for the chop when he does his big rollover reshuffle after Brexit.
    Nicky Morgan is the de facto HOL leader when the resuffle comes in February and Zac is going to stay in his role, not least because he is committed to it and is very strongly supported by Carrie
  • NickPalmerNickPalmer Posts: 21,503

    Reading Clive Lewis's article, he's not as some suggest standing as an uber-Corbynite, he's standing as a centre-left pact man - not just ultra-keen on the EU but in favour of PR. I can actually see an electoral pact resulting if he were the leader.

    Doesn't mean I'll vote for him, but it's an interesting new angle.

    Any word on Yvette yet?
    Still thinking about it, so we've only got Thornberry and Lewis so far.

    Was chatting to a longstanding Blairite friend. She won't vote for RLB if she presents herself as continuity Corbyn, but otherwise thinks she'd be quite good - forceful Northerner and a good speaker, in her view. I must admit I've not heard RLB much so don't have a view on that - true?
  • kle4kle4 Posts: 95,870
    Ave_it said:

    Most useless self centred group ever - thanks for coming!

    https://www.bbc.co.uk/news/uk-politics-50858811

    Thank goodness you put that link in, I thought you were talking about us!
  • HYUFDHYUFD Posts: 122,267
    Just come back from.Chingford post election party in which IDS declared 'total victory' and onto Brexit and beyond
  • NickPalmerNickPalmer Posts: 21,503



    Nicky Morgan is the de facto HOL leader when the resuffle comes in February and Zac is going to stay in his role, not least because he is committed to it and is very strongly supported by Carrie

    Zac is a genuinely commited environmentalist, irrespective of what one thinks of the Lords issue. I'm pleased he's remaining in office.
  • Reading Clive Lewis's article, he's not as some suggest standing as an uber-Corbynite, he's standing as a centre-left pact man - not just ultra-keen on the EU but in favour of PR. I can actually see an electoral pact resulting if he were the leader.

    Doesn't mean I'll vote for him, but it's an interesting new angle.

    Any word on Yvette yet?
    Still thinking about it, so we've only got Thornberry and Lewis so far.

    Was chatting to a longstanding Blairite friend. She won't vote for RLB if she presents herself as continuity Corbyn, but otherwise thinks she'd be quite good - forceful Northerner and a good speaker, in her view. I must admit I've not heard RLB much so don't have a view on that - true?
    Communication wise I reckon RBL is a big uptick on Corbyn, at least in formal presentation settings.
  • "Ketamine-like drug for depression gets UK licence"

    Guardian


  • Nicky Morgan is the de facto HOL leader when the resuffle comes in February and Zac is going to stay in his role, not least because he is committed to it and is very strongly supported by Carrie

    Zac is a genuinely commited environmentalist, irrespective of what one thinks of the Lords issue. I'm pleased he's remaining in office.
    We do share his views and also on animal welfare Nick
  • kle4kle4 Posts: 95,870
    edited December 2019



    Nicky Morgan is the de facto HOL leader when the resuffle comes in February and Zac is going to stay in his role, not least because he is committed to it and is very strongly supported by Carrie

    Zac is a genuinely commited environmentalist, irrespective of what one thinks of the Lords issue. I'm pleased he's remaining in office.
    Surely he could have done a reasonably good job by being a government adviser on the subject rather than a minister? I'm not actually opposed to Lords being ministers, and I don't mean to imply that he would not be able to achieve more as a minister than as an adviser, but assuming there are others of similar stance around who could fill the ministerial role it doesn't seem like it would be necessary to elevate him with such haste at least.
  • JonathanJonathan Posts: 21,555

    Reading Clive Lewis's article, he's not as some suggest standing as an uber-Corbynite, he's standing as a centre-left pact man - not just ultra-keen on the EU but in favour of PR. I can actually see an electoral pact resulting if he were the leader.

    Doesn't mean I'll vote for him, but it's an interesting new angle.

    Any word on Yvette yet?
    Still thinking about it, so we've only got Thornberry and Lewis so far.

    Was chatting to a longstanding Blairite friend. She won't vote for RLB if she presents herself as continuity Corbyn, but otherwise thinks she'd be quite good - forceful Northerner and a good speaker, in her view. I must admit I've not heard RLB much so don't have a view on that - true?
    Not as good as Rayner.
  • HYUFD said:

    Just come back from.Chingford post election party in which IDS declared 'total victory' and onto Brexit and beyond

    And a wee bit of humility is a good thing - there are a lot of people hurting
  • kle4kle4 Posts: 95,870
    edited December 2019

    HYUFD said:

    Just come back from.Chingford post election party in which IDS declared 'total victory' and onto Brexit and beyond

    And a wee bit of humility is a good thing - there are a lot of people hurting
    I would think a post election victory party would be an odd place for a display of humility, real or affected.
  • kle4 said:

    HYUFD said:

    Just come back from.Chingford post election party in which IDS declared 'total victory' and onto Brexit and beyond

    And a wee bit of humility is a good thing - there are a lot of people hurting
    I would think a post election victory party would be an odd place for a display of humility, real or affected.
    VJ-DAY?
    (Victory over Jeremy Day?)
  • kle4 said:

    HYUFD said:

    Just come back from.Chingford post election party in which IDS declared 'total victory' and onto Brexit and beyond

    And a wee bit of humility is a good thing - there are a lot of people hurting
    I would think a post election victory party would be an odd place for a display of humility, real or affected.
    I know but I still hope we are magnanimous in our win
  • Jonathan said:

    Reading Clive Lewis's article, he's not as some suggest standing as an uber-Corbynite, he's standing as a centre-left pact man - not just ultra-keen on the EU but in favour of PR. I can actually see an electoral pact resulting if he were the leader.

    Doesn't mean I'll vote for him, but it's an interesting new angle.

    Any word on Yvette yet?
    Still thinking about it, so we've only got Thornberry and Lewis so far.

    Was chatting to a longstanding Blairite friend. She won't vote for RLB if she presents herself as continuity Corbyn, but otherwise thinks she'd be quite good - forceful Northerner and a good speaker, in her view. I must admit I've not heard RLB much so don't have a view on that - true?
    Not as good as Rayner.
    I'm green on Rayner. Tiny bit red on RBL.

    I reckon Rayner may play the long game - become Deputy and ride out the 2023/4 loss.
  • Pro_RataPro_Rata Posts: 5,255
    Off topic, and indulge me in whinging about my own commute again:

    TPExpress on course to post the worst monthly performance stats of any current TOC since Hull Trains posted 50% during 2016, the difference being TPE run 20x the number of services on multiple routes.

    On time (<10 mins) 54%, Late (10-30 mins) 21%, V. Late or cancelled, 25%

    That's not counting the 10% or so of trains that have been removed entirely from the timetable until New Year.

    Manchester Victoria platform staff walked out this evening over an abuse incident, leading to a severely congested concourse. I suspect not unrelated.
  • IanB2IanB2 Posts: 49,774
    HYUFD said:

    Just come back from.Chingford post election party in which IDS declared 'total victory' and onto Brexit and beyond

    That must have been a wild night to remember. Still, at least you are tucked up in bed by 10.30pm.

    Demographics may well see to IDS next time around.
  • HYUFDHYUFD Posts: 122,267
    paynie said:

    https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=s7Yzy6Rqrmc

    Dr David Starkey on Brexit, and the current state of the Conservative and Labour parties. As usual, he is faultlessly on the button. What an intellect.

    Even Starkey has reassessed his view of Boris, moving from Charles IInd in style to Churchill in getting Brexit done.

    Also says the Tories should go back to Beveridge in rethinking how healthcare is delivered in a way the North can accept
  • speedy2speedy2 Posts: 981
    edited December 2019

    Reading Clive Lewis's article, he's not as some suggest standing as an uber-Corbynite, he's standing as a centre-left pact man - not just ultra-keen on the EU but in favour of PR. I can actually see an electoral pact resulting if he were the leader.

    Doesn't mean I'll vote for him, but it's an interesting new angle.

    PR would result in splintering of all parties into groups of 5-15% in size.
    Labour could easily splinter into 3 pieces, the LD into 2, and the Conservatives into 3 under PR.
    The SNP would also lose half it's seats.

    It's in no ones interest to pass it really except perhaps the LD.
    One of the main reasons why Labour rose during the campaign at the expence of the LD was FPTP.
  • kle4kle4 Posts: 95,870
    HYUFD said:

    paynie said:

    https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=s7Yzy6Rqrmc

    Dr David Starkey on Brexit, and the current state of the Conservative and Labour parties. As usual, he is faultlessly on the button. What an intellect.

    Even Starkey has reassessed his view of Boris, moving from Charles IInd in style to Churchill in getting Brexit done.

    Also says the Tories should go back to Beveridge in rethinking how healthcare is delivered in a way the North can accept
    He also said Boris is possibly the last PM of the UK.
  • JonathanJonathan Posts: 21,555

    kle4 said:

    HYUFD said:

    Just come back from.Chingford post election party in which IDS declared 'total victory' and onto Brexit and beyond

    And a wee bit of humility is a good thing - there are a lot of people hurting
    I would think a post election victory party would be an odd place for a display of humility, real or affected.
    I know but I still hope we are magnanimous in our win
    I fear it’s a little late for that. That went with the new amendment to the Brexit bill, which is more provocative than meaningful.
  • Ave_itAve_it Posts: 2,411

    Reading Clive Lewis's article, he's not as some suggest standing as an uber-Corbynite, he's standing as a centre-left pact man - not just ultra-keen on the EU but in favour of PR. I can actually see an electoral pact resulting if he were the leader.

    Doesn't mean I'll vote for him, but it's an interesting new angle.

    Any word on Yvette yet?
    Still thinking about it, so we've only got Thornberry and Lewis so far.

    Was chatting to a longstanding Blairite friend. She won't vote for RLB if she presents herself as continuity Corbyn, but otherwise thinks she'd be quite good - forceful Northerner and a good speaker, in her view. I must admit I've not heard RLB much so don't have a view on that - true?
    LABOUR :lol::lol::lol:
  • Pro_RataPro_Rata Posts: 5,255

    Cookie said:

    kle4 said:

    ydoethur said:

    Jonathan said:

    Jonathan said:

    kle4 said:

    ydoethur said:

    Cyclefree said:
    Ultimately, Labour has become a movement that doesn’t care about its voters, it cares about feeling smug.

    As a result, its voters have abandoned it, and it is left with smugness.

    They cannot see why constantly thinking themselves the right people to rule Britain and naturally superior to everyone else isn’t appealing to their voters. .
    It's possible for a party to think that and still win elections - Labour are combining that thought without even being able to justify it on the basis of popularity. Lest we forget, the Tories are by far the most popular political party in the UK (though not in some parts of it of course). If you are going to have that arrogance you need to either disguise it, or back it up with success.

    Go figure. I know which I think is the smarter response to the results.
    Beauty is the eye of the beholder. Boris legging it up to gloat in Sedgefield and his smugness today, don’t smack hugely of humility.
    Don't be a sore loser. Celebrating victory isn't gloating.
    Nah. A gloat’s a gloat. He could not resist. Not that it matters , but save us the humility bullshit.
    Tories 365
    Lab 202

    :innocent:
    Can you do us a graph please?
    Aaaaargh! Why did you have to suggest that? Just when we were getting him past that stage...
    Fish have to swim.
    Sunil's have to graph.
    Ydoethur's have to pun.

    You cannot fight nature, my friend.
    Sunils have to route-bash, surely.

    (planning to capture - on camera! - the West Midlands Metro to Birmingham Library, and the Stockport to Guide Bridge train within the next couple of weeks)
    Everyone loves a bit of Reddish South...
    Denton too!
    Does it not go to Stalybridge anymore? Or, I guess you've marked off that hop already?
  • HYUFDHYUFD Posts: 122,267
    edited December 2019
    IanB2 said:

    HYUFD said:

    Just come back from.Chingford post election party in which IDS declared 'total victory' and onto Brexit and beyond

    That must have been a wild night to remember. Still, at least you are tucked up in bed by 10.30pm.

    Demographics may well see to IDS next time around.
    Demographics could have seen for him this time, if we had not done any work it could have been another Putney.

    IDS is now in his mid 60s and may stand down before the next general election anyway having been MP for the area for over 30 years
  • Ave_itAve_it Posts: 2,411
    Pro_Rata said:

    Cookie said:

    kle4 said:

    ydoethur said:

    Jonathan said:

    Jonathan said:

    kle4 said:

    ydoethur said:

    Cyclefree said:
    Ultimately, Labour has become a movement that doesn’t care about its voters, it cares about feeling smug.

    As a result, its voters have abandoned it, and it is left with smugness.

    They cannot see why constantly thinking themselves the right people to rule Britain and naturally superior to everyone else isn’t appealing to their voters. .
    It's possible for a party to think that and still win elections - Labour are combining that thought without even being able to justify it on the basis of popularity. Lest we forget, the Tories are by far the most popular political party in the UK (though not in some parts of it of course). If you are going to have that arrogance you need to either disguise it, or back it up with success.

    Go figure. I know which I think is the smarter response to the results.
    Beauty is the eye of the beholder. Boris legging it up to gloat in Sedgefield and his smugness today, don’t smack hugely of humility.
    Don't be a sore loser. Celebrating victory isn't gloating.
    Nah. A gloat’s a gloat. He could not resist. Not that it matters , but save us the humility bullshit.
    Tories 365
    Lab 202

    :innocent:
    Can you do us a graph please?
    Aaaaargh! Why did you have to suggest that? Just when we were getting him past that stage...
    Fish have to swim.
    Sunil's have to graph.
    Ydoethur's have to pun.

    You cannot fight nature, my friend.
    Sunils have to route-bash, surely.

    (planning to capture - on camera! - the West Midlands Metro to Birmingham Library, and the Stockport to Guide Bridge train within the next couple of weeks)
    Everyone loves a bit of Reddish South...
    Denton too!
    Does it not go to Stalybridge anymore? Or, I guess you've marked off that hop already?
    I did Stalybridge - Stockport when LAB was a small party! 1987!! Nothing changes!!!
  • Jonathan said:

    kle4 said:

    HYUFD said:

    Just come back from.Chingford post election party in which IDS declared 'total victory' and onto Brexit and beyond

    And a wee bit of humility is a good thing - there are a lot of people hurting
    I would think a post election victory party would be an odd place for a display of humility, real or affected.
    I know but I still hope we are magnanimous in our win
    I fear it’s a little late for that. That went with the new amendment to the Brexit bill, which is more provocative than meaningful.
    To be honest nothing Boris could do would placate your anger at Brexit but it is happening and I hope some day you will find closure
  • kyf_100kyf_100 Posts: 4,866
    Four more years! Four more years!
  • HYUFDHYUFD Posts: 122,267
    edited December 2019

    HYUFD said:

    Just come back from.Chingford post election party in which IDS declared 'total victory' and onto Brexit and beyond

    And a wee bit of humility is a good thing - there are a lot of people hurting
    Let them hurt, I remember 1997 and 2001 and 2017 as I campaigned in them all and I remember zilch humility from Labour and the LDs then over Tory hurt, this was the best Tory victory in my lifetime (that I can remember bring 6 in 1987) and the party is right to celebrate it
  • HYUFD said:

    HYUFD said:

    Just come back from.Chingford post election party in which IDS declared 'total victory' and onto Brexit and beyond

    And a wee bit of humility is a good thing - there are a lot of people hurting
    Let them hurt, I remember 1997 and 2001 and 2017 as I campaigned in them all and I remember zilch humility from Labour and the LDs then over Tory hurt, this was the best Tory victory in my lifetime (that I can remember bring 6 in 1987) and the party is right to celebrate it
    I remember 1997 when I voted for Blair in a reverse of what happened last thursday. Of course it is right to celebrate but we will only bring the country together by being much kinder to each other
  • Ave_itAve_it Posts: 2,411
    Let's be clear

    LOL to all LAB posters good news CON government guaranteed until 2050!

    Happy Christmas y'all!!

    :lol:

  • ralphmalphralphmalph Posts: 2,201
    Newsnight have the completely irrelevant David Gauke on talking rubbish, he has learnt nothing.
  • Pro_Rata said:

    Cookie said:

    kle4 said:

    ydoethur said:

    Jonathan said:

    Jonathan said:

    kle4 said:

    ydoethur said:

    Cyclefree said:
    Ultimately, Labour has become a movement that doesn’t care about its voters, it cares about feeling smug.

    As a result, its voters have abandoned it, and it is left with smugness.

    They cannot see why constantly thinking themselves the right people to rule Britain and naturally superior to everyone else isn’t appealing to their voters. .
    It's possible for a party to think that and still win elections - Labour are combining that thought without even being able to justify it on the basis of popularity. Lest we forget, the Tories are by far the most popular political party in the UK (though not in some parts of it of course). If you are going to have that arrogance you need to either disguise it, or back it up with success.

    Go figure. I know which I think is the smarter response to the results.
    .
    Don't be a sore loser. Celebrating victory isn't gloating.
    Tories 365
    Lab 202

    :innocent:
    Can you do us a graph please?
    Aaaaargh! Why did you have to suggest that? Just when we were getting him past that stage...
    Fish have to swim.
    Sunil's have to graph.
    Ydoethur's have to pun.

    You cannot fight nature, my friend.
    Sunils have to route-bash, surely.

    (planning to capture - on camera! - the West Midlands Metro to Birmingham Library, and the Stockport to Guide Bridge train within the next couple of weeks)
    Everyone loves a bit of Reddish South...
    Denton too!
    Does it not go to Stalybridge anymore? Or, I guess you've marked off that hop already?
    It does, but you can do Guide Bridge to Stalybridge any day of the week!

    It used to be Fridays only, but changed to Saturday last year I think. Also, last weekend's timetable change shifted the southbound journey by an hour (0846 to 1018), so easier to get to Guide Bridge in time!
  • https://twitter.com/AaronBastani/status/1207743134723117057

    Greens lose their sole seat under these changes?
  • Newsnight have the completely irrelevant David Gauke on talking rubbish, he has learnt nothing.

    Now that is bonkers but in line with the BBC learning zilch from the changed politics post the GE
  • MexicanpeteMexicanpete Posts: 28,190
    HYUFD said:

    HYUFD said:

    Just come back from.Chingford post election party in which IDS declared 'total victory' and onto Brexit and beyond

    And a wee bit of humility is a good thing - there are a lot of people hurting
    Let them hurt, I remember 1997 and 2001 and 2017 as I campaigned in them all and I remember zilch humility from Labour and the LDs then over Tory hurt, this was the best Tory victory in my lifetime (that I can remember bring 6 in 1987) and the party is right to celebrate it
    We are going to be hurting in 2023, 2027, 2031, 2035 and 2039. I don't suppose I will be too worried about the last one so long as I still get a bus pass and free TV.
  • Sunil_PrasannanSunil_Prasannan Posts: 51,578
    edited December 2019
    Pro_Rata said:

    Off topic, and indulge me in whinging about my own commute again:

    TPExpress on course to post the worst monthly performance stats of any current TOC since Hull Trains posted 50% during 2016, the difference being TPE run 20x the number of services on multiple routes.

    On time (-10 mins) 54%, Late (10-30 mins) 21%, V. Late or cancelled, 25%

    That's not counting the 10% or so of trains that have been removed entirely from the timetable until New Year.

    Manchester Victoria platform staff walked out this evening over an abuse incident, leading to a severely congested concourse. I suspect not unrelated.

    I guess I can always use Piccadilly to get to Guide Bridge, I largely did Manchester's trains and trams in 2016 and 2017. Oh and the Ordsall Curve last year.
  • Tory on BBc 2 banging on about obscure constitutional changes to Supreme Court. sounds a lot like some obsessional crap that Cummings has come up with.
  • squareroot2squareroot2 Posts: 6,662

    Reading Clive Lewis's article, he's not as some suggest standing as an uber-Corbynite, he's standing as a centre-left pact man - not just ultra-keen on the EU but in favour of PR. I can actually see an electoral pact resulting if he were the leader.

    Doesn't mean I'll vote for him, but it's an interesting new angle.

    Any word on Yvette yet?
    Still thinking about it, so we've only got Thornberry and Lewis so far.

    Was chatting to a longstanding Blairite friend. She won't vote for RLB if she presents herself as continuity Corbyn, but otherwise thinks she'd be quite good - forceful Northerner and a good speaker, in her view. I must admit I've not heard RLB much so don't have a view on that - true?
    Surely you want a continuity Corbyn candidate?
  • https://twitter.com/AaronBastani/status/1207743134723117057

    Greens lose their sole seat under these changes?

    Reduce the number of UNELECTED Has-Beens, NOT the elected MPs!
This discussion has been closed.