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  • AnabobazinaAnabobazina Posts: 19,620
    Anorak said:

    BigRich said:

    The move to 600 MPs instead of 650 was IIRC about saving a small but still real amount of money. As such it has my support.

    Then why not cut to 300 or 200 or 100? The amount saved is utterly trivial gesture politics of the worst kind, that would sack MPs for no good reason and reduce political representation.
    So 800 MPs should be preferred? More jobs; more representation.
    I'd just leave it as it, really not worth the agg changing it.
  • The culture wars have now reached coffee? Gawd help us all.

    I don’t drink coffee but is the culture war a discussion about if coffee is an acceptable topping on pizza?

    I mean if pineapple is then why not coffee?
    Pineapple is a fruit that perfectly suits pizzas, just like tomato and bananas. Why wouldn't it be suitable?
    Out for lunch today I notice that there was a 'build your own burger' option which included pineapple. It's normally a very good pub for lunch.
    Pineapple is a fantastic topping on burgers too. Very common across the Southern Hemisphere.

    I feel sorry for TSE's palate that he can't appreciate the wonder of pineapple.
  • Anorak said:

    MaxPB said:

    MaxPB said:

    Cookie said:

    Anorak said:

    Anorak said:
    Times are changing in the North...

    I was back in Stoke last year and I went into what I would describe as a greasy spoon. I saw behind the counter they had a proper coffee machine and decided to order a double espresso.

    The lady serving dumped said beverage into what I would describe as builders mug, only for the owner to appear from the back with absolute horror....telling her "I told you we now have them special cups for that"....to which the reply was "It all goes down the same doesn't it, anyway what's the point of those tiny things".
    Up in Cumbria lattes or cappuccinos are available pretty much everywhere. They do tend to pronounce the former as "latty" (to rhyme with batty) which makes me smile.

    Yes I know that's a bit condescending, but I'm part of the avocado-loving metropolitan elite, now, and sometimes I can't help myself. Still have gravy on chips, though, so not all is lost.
    I CANNNOT STAND the pronunciation of 'latte' as 'lar-tay'. Pronounced thus it is perhaps the ponciest word in the English language. In this part of the world we use the short 'a' and we place the emphasis on the first syllable of two-syllable words. (I always struggled with Cherie Blair - or, as I preferred, Cherry Blair - for the same reason.) Therefore, it's a latty. Correctness doesn't come into it.

    Happily, it's not a word I ever have cause to pronounce.
    If you're saying latte you're doing it wrong in the first place, the liberal elites are all drinking Cortados, sometimes with oat milk.
    Personally I prefer Almond milk...
    No, nut milks are out because of the huge environmental damage they cause and because Oatly barista is the king of non-dairy now.
    Does that mean my membership application for the metropolitan elite club will be rejected?
    It's a yellow card offence. You now have to name 4 types of avocado and pronounce quinoa 'properly' to redeem yourself.
    What's quinoa?
  • RobDRobD Posts: 58,941

    The culture wars have now reached coffee? Gawd help us all.

    I don’t drink coffee but is the culture war a discussion about if coffee is an acceptable topping on pizza?

    I mean if pineapple is then why not coffee?
    Pineapple is a fruit that perfectly suits pizzas, just like tomato and bananas. Why wouldn't it be suitable?
    Out for lunch today I notice that there was a 'build your own burger' option which included pineapple. It's normally a very good pub for lunch.
    Probably my best ever burger was a strawberry burger. Surprisingly delicious.
  • SandpitSandpit Posts: 49,614
    edited December 2019

    Sandpit said:

    Even with a decent sized majority, stuff like that is going to struggle to get through.

    The antics of the anti-Brexit MPs really have opened Pandora’s box of constitutional vandalism, but the government would be better off trying to get it closed again.
    I can't quite work out what they think they achieve by doing this. It just opens the prospect of future governments doing the same. Imagine a supreme court stuffed full of Corbynites.
    Indeed. We really don't need to copy the worst aspects of American politics.

    By all means give more powers to elected Mayors and councillors, but let judges be appointed by the existing Board and let boundaries be updated automatically by the Commission.

    A good test, as you suggest, is to think of how your worst opponent might react to having the powers you wish to take for yourself.

    I hope there's enough libertarian Tories now in Parliament to stop stuff like this getting through, and the Lords will certainly oppose it.
  • The culture wars have now reached coffee? Gawd help us all.

    I don’t drink coffee but is the culture war a discussion about if coffee is an acceptable topping on pizza?

    I mean if pineapple is then why not coffee?
    Pineapple is a fruit that perfectly suits pizzas, just like tomato and bananas. Why wouldn't it be suitable?
    Out for lunch today I notice that there was a 'build your own burger' option which included pineapple. It's normally a very good pub for lunch.
    Pineapple is a fantastic topping on burgers too. Very common across the Southern Hemisphere.

    I feel sorry for TSE's palate that he can't appreciate the wonder of pineapple.
    I like pineapples, just not on pizzas.
  • Anorak said:

    MaxPB said:

    MaxPB said:

    Cookie said:

    Anorak said:

    Anorak said:
    Times are changing in the North...

    I was back in Stoke last year and I went into what I would describe as a greasy spoon. I saw behind the counter they had a proper coffee machine and decided to order a double espresso.

    The lady serving dumped said beverage into what I would describe as builders mug, only for the owner to appear from the back with absolute horror....telling her "I told you we now have them special cups for that"....to which the reply was "It all goes down the same doesn't it, anyway what's the point of those tiny things".
    Up in Cumbria lattes or cappuccinos are available pretty much everywhere. They do tend to pronounce the former as "latty" (to rhyme with batty) which makes me smile.

    Yes I know that's a bit condescending, but I'm part of the avocado-loving metropolitan elite, now, and sometimes I can't help myself. Still have gravy on chips, though, so not all is lost.
    I CANNNOT STAND the pronunciation of 'latte' as 'lar-tay'. Pronounced thus it is perhaps the ponciest word in the English language. In this part of the world we use the short 'a' and we place the emphasis on the first syllable of two-syllable words. (I always struggled with Cherie Blair - or, as I preferred, Cherry Blair - for the same reason.) Therefore, it's a latty. Correctness doesn't come into it.

    Happily, it's not a word I ever have cause to pronounce.
    If you're saying latte you're doing it wrong in the first place, the liberal elites are all drinking Cortados, sometimes with oat milk.
    Personally I prefer Almond milk...
    No, nut milks are out because of the huge environmental damage they cause and because Oatly barista is the king of non-dairy now.
    Does that mean my membership application for the metropolitan elite club will be rejected?
    It's a yellow card offence. You now have to name 4 types of avocado and pronounce quinoa 'properly' to redeem yourself.
    What's quinoa?
    I'm curious about the 4 types of acocado myself.

    I'm guessing: Unripe, nearly ripe, ripe and guacamole.
  • AnorakAnorak Posts: 6,621

    Anorak said:

    Does that mean my membership application for the metropolitan elite club will be rejected?

    It's a yellow card offence. You now have to name 4 types of avocado and pronounce quinoa 'properly' to redeem yourself.
    What's quinoa?
    Back to the provinces with you, bumpkin.
  • Anorak said:

    MaxPB said:

    MaxPB said:

    Cookie said:

    Anorak said:

    Anorak said:
    Times are changing in the North...

    I was back in Stoke last year and I went into what I would describe as a greasy spoon. I saw behind the counter they had a proper coffee machine and decided to order a double espresso.

    The lady serving dumped said beverage into what I would describe as builders mug, only for the owner to appear from the back with absolute horror....telling her "I told you we now have them special cups for that"....to which the reply was "It all goes down the same doesn't it, anyway what's the point of those tiny things".
    Up in Cumbria lattes or cappuccinos are available pretty much everywhere. They do tend to pronounce the former as "latty" (to rhyme with batty) which makes me smile.

    Yes I know that's a bit condescending, but I'm part of the avocado-loving metropolitan elite, now, and sometimes I can't help myself. Still have gravy on chips, though, so not all is lost.
    I CANNNOT STAND the pronunciation of 'latte' as 'lar-tay'. Pronounced thus it is perhaps the ponciest word in the English language. In this part of the world we use the short 'a' and we place the emphasis on the first syllable of two-syllable words. (I always struggled with Cherie Blair - or, as I preferred, Cherry Blair - for the same reason.) Therefore, it's a latty. Correctness doesn't come into it.

    Happily, it's not a word I ever have cause to pronounce.
    If you're saying latte you're doing it wrong in the first place, the liberal elites are all drinking Cortados, sometimes with oat milk.
    Personally I prefer Almond milk...
    No, nut milks are out because of the huge environmental damage they cause and because Oatly barista is the king of non-dairy now.
    Does that mean my membership application for the metropolitan elite club will be rejected?
    It's a yellow card offence. You now have to name 4 types of avocado and pronounce quinoa 'properly' to redeem yourself.
    What's quinoa?
    I'm curious about the 4 types of acocado myself.

    I'm guessing: Unripe, nearly ripe, ripe and guacamole.
    Globe and Jerusalem are two, I think...
  • OldKingColeOldKingCole Posts: 31,722

    The culture wars have now reached coffee? Gawd help us all.

    I don’t drink coffee but is the culture war a discussion about if coffee is an acceptable topping on pizza?

    I mean if pineapple is then why not coffee?
    Pineapple is a fruit that perfectly suits pizzas, just like tomato and bananas. Why wouldn't it be suitable?
    Out for lunch today I notice that there was a 'build your own burger' option which included pineapple. It's normally a very good pub for lunch.
    Pineapple is a fantastic topping on burgers too. Very common across the Southern Hemisphere.

    I feel sorry for TSE's palate that he can't appreciate the wonder of pineapple.
    I like pineapples, just not on pizzas.
    Seconded. Or on burgers.
  • MarqueeMarkMarqueeMark Posts: 49,961

    Anorak said:

    MaxPB said:

    MaxPB said:

    Cookie said:

    Anorak said:

    Anorak said:
    Times are changing in the North...

    I was back in Stoke last year and I went into what I would describe as a greasy spoon. I saw behind the counter they had a proper coffee machine and decided to order a double espresso.

    The lady serving dumped said beverage into what I would describe as builders mug, only for the owner to appear from the back with absolute horror....telling her "I told you we now have them special cups for that"....to which the reply was "It all goes down the same doesn't it, anyway what's the point of those tiny things".
    Up in Cumbria lattes or cappuccinos are available pretty much everywhere. They do tend to pronounce the former as "latty" (to rhyme with batty) which makes me smile.

    Yes I know that's a bit condescending, but I'm part of the avocado-loving metropolitan elite, now, and sometimes I can't help myself. Still have gravy on chips, though, so not all is lost.
    I CANNNOT STAND the pronunciation of 'latte' as 'lar-tay'. Pronounced thus it is perhaps the ponciest word in the English language. In this part of the world we use the short 'a' and we place the emphasis on the first syllable of two-syllable words. (I always struggled with Cherie Blair - or, as I preferred, Cherry Blair - for the same reason.) Therefore, it's a latty. Correctness doesn't come into it.

    Happily, it's not a word I ever have cause to pronounce.
    If you're saying latte you're doing it wrong in the first place, the liberal elites are all drinking Cortados, sometimes with oat milk.
    Personally I prefer Almond milk...
    No, nut milks are out because of the huge environmental damage they cause and because Oatly barista is the king of non-dairy now.
    Does that mean my membership application for the metropolitan elite club will be rejected?
    It's a yellow card offence. You now have to name 4 types of avocado and pronounce quinoa 'properly' to redeem yourself.
    What's quinoa?
    I'm curious about the 4 types of acocado myself.

    I'm guessing: Unripe, nearly ripe, ripe and guacamole.
    Guacamole is the end product of Whack-a-mole.

    Also, it's pronounced "mush - eeee"
  • SandpitSandpit Posts: 49,614

    Anorak said:

    BigRich said:

    The move to 600 MPs instead of 650 was IIRC about saving a small but still real amount of money. As such it has my support.

    Then why not cut to 300 or 200 or 100? The amount saved is utterly trivial gesture politics of the worst kind, that would sack MPs for no good reason and reduce political representation.
    So 800 MPs should be preferred? More jobs; more representation.
    I'd just leave it as it, really not worth the agg changing it.
    The Status Quo is now the 600-seat Boundary Commission report from last year, any deviation from that requires primary legislation.

    https://boundarycommissionforengland.independent.gov.uk/
  • OldKingColeOldKingCole Posts: 31,722

    Anorak said:

    MaxPB said:

    MaxPB said:

    Cookie said:

    Anorak said:

    Anorak said:
    Times are changing in the North...

    I was back in Stoke last year and I went into what I would describe as a greasy spoon. I saw behind the counter they had a proper coffee machine and decided to order a double espresso.

    The lady serving dumped said beverage into what I would describe as builders mug, only for the owner to appear from the back with absolute horror....telling her "I told you we now have them special cups for that"....to which the reply was "It all goes down the same doesn't it, anyway what's the point of those tiny things".
    Up in Cumbria lattes or cappuccinos are available pretty much everywhere. They do tend to pronounce the former as "latty" (to rhyme with batty) which makes me smile.

    Yes I know that's a bit condescending, but I'm part of the avocado-loving metropolitan elite, now, and sometimes I can't help myself. Still have gravy on chips, though, so not all is lost.
    I CANNNOT STAND the pronunciation of 'latte' as 'lar-tay'. Pronounced thus it is perhaps the ponciest word in the English language. In this part of the world we use the short 'a' and we place the emphasis on the first syllable of two-syllable words. (I always struggled with Cherie Blair - or, as I preferred, Cherry Blair - for the same reason.) Therefore, it's a latty. Correctness doesn't come into it.

    Happily, it's not a word I ever have cause to pronounce.
    If you're saying latte you're doing it wrong in the first place, the liberal elites are all drinking Cortados, sometimes with oat milk.
    Personally I prefer Almond milk...
    No, nut milks are out because of the huge environmental damage they cause and because Oatly barista is the king of non-dairy now.
    Does that mean my membership application for the metropolitan elite club will be rejected?
    It's a yellow card offence. You now have to name 4 types of avocado and pronounce quinoa 'properly' to redeem yourself.
    What's quinoa?
    I'm curious about the 4 types of acocado myself.

    I'm guessing: Unripe, nearly ripe, ripe and guacamole.
    My wife, having been born and brought up in Lancashire had mushy peas with her fish. Always make me smile.
  • AnabobazinaAnabobazina Posts: 19,620
    Sandpit said:

    Anorak said:

    BigRich said:

    The move to 600 MPs instead of 650 was IIRC about saving a small but still real amount of money. As such it has my support.

    Then why not cut to 300 or 200 or 100? The amount saved is utterly trivial gesture politics of the worst kind, that would sack MPs for no good reason and reduce political representation.
    So 800 MPs should be preferred? More jobs; more representation.
    I'd just leave it as it, really not worth the agg changing it.
    The Status Quo is now the 600-seat Boundary Commission report from last year, any deviation from that requires primary legislation.

    https://boundarycommissionforengland.independent.gov.uk/
    Then why have we just elected 650 MPs?
  • AnorakAnorak Posts: 6,621

    The culture wars have now reached coffee? Gawd help us all.

    I don’t drink coffee but is the culture war a discussion about if coffee is an acceptable topping on pizza?

    I mean if pineapple is then why not coffee?
    Pineapple is a fruit that perfectly suits pizzas, just like tomato and bananas. Why wouldn't it be suitable?
    Out for lunch today I notice that there was a 'build your own burger' option which included pineapple. It's normally a very good pub for lunch.
    Pineapple is a fantastic topping on burgers too. Very common across the Southern Hemisphere.

    I feel sorry for TSE's palate that he can't appreciate the wonder of pineapple.
    I like pineapples, just not on pizzas.
    Seconded. Or on burgers.
    Good on gammon, though, paired with a runny fried egg.
  • MarqueeMarkMarqueeMark Posts: 49,961

    The culture wars have now reached coffee? Gawd help us all.

    I don’t drink coffee but is the culture war a discussion about if coffee is an acceptable topping on pizza?

    I mean if pineapple is then why not coffee?
    Pineapple is a fruit that perfectly suits pizzas, just like tomato and bananas. Why wouldn't it be suitable?
    Out for lunch today I notice that there was a 'build your own burger' option which included pineapple. It's normally a very good pub for lunch.
    Pineapple is a fantastic topping on burgers too. Very common across the Southern Hemisphere.

    I feel sorry for TSE's palate that he can't appreciate the wonder of pineapple.
    I like pineapples, just not on pizzas.
    Next you'll be saying you don't like a Quality Street pizza.

    Wot?
  • ydoethurydoethur Posts: 66,767

    The culture wars have now reached coffee? Gawd help us all.

    I don’t drink coffee but is the culture war a discussion about if coffee is an acceptable topping on pizza?

    I mean if pineapple is then why not coffee?
    Pineapple is a fruit that perfectly suits pizzas, just like tomato and bananas. Why wouldn't it be suitable?
    Out for lunch today I notice that there was a 'build your own burger' option which included pineapple. It's normally a very good pub for lunch.
    You want to watch that. Pineapple in a burger today, enforced vegetarianism tomorrow, then a requirement to vote Labour on Saturday. And then you’re in trouble.
  • BigRichBigRich Posts: 3,489
    This was quite a 'Fun' loyal address,

    https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=US3uIOAgAKA
  • SandpitSandpit Posts: 49,614

    Sandpit said:

    Anorak said:

    BigRich said:

    The move to 600 MPs instead of 650 was IIRC about saving a small but still real amount of money. As such it has my support.

    Then why not cut to 300 or 200 or 100? The amount saved is utterly trivial gesture politics of the worst kind, that would sack MPs for no good reason and reduce political representation.
    So 800 MPs should be preferred? More jobs; more representation.
    I'd just leave it as it, really not worth the agg changing it.
    The Status Quo is now the 600-seat Boundary Commission report from last year, any deviation from that requires primary legislation.

    https://boundarycommissionforengland.independent.gov.uk/
    Then why have we just elected 650 MPs?
    Because the last Parliament couldn't agree on anything, so we had to stick with the existing boundaries dating from 2005.
  • OldKingColeOldKingCole Posts: 31,722
    ydoethur said:

    The culture wars have now reached coffee? Gawd help us all.

    I don’t drink coffee but is the culture war a discussion about if coffee is an acceptable topping on pizza?

    I mean if pineapple is then why not coffee?
    Pineapple is a fruit that perfectly suits pizzas, just like tomato and bananas. Why wouldn't it be suitable?
    Out for lunch today I notice that there was a 'build your own burger' option which included pineapple. It's normally a very good pub for lunch.
    You want to watch that. Pineapple in a burger today, enforced vegetarianism tomorrow, then a requirement to vote Labour on Saturday. And then you’re in trouble.
    Third option, while not desirable, cannot be ruled out. You'd think the same if Priti Patel was your MP!
    The pub did have a collection of old Daily Mails to read, if desired.
  • SandyRentoolSandyRentool Posts: 20,404

    The culture wars have now reached coffee? Gawd help us all.

    I don’t drink coffee but is the culture war a discussion about if coffee is an acceptable topping on pizza?

    I mean if pineapple is then why not coffee?
    Wor Lass bought a bottle of coffee flavour liqueur last week. Nice.
  • FloaterFloater Posts: 14,195
    I rather enjoyed this

    https://order-order.com/2019/12/19/watch-full-tracey-crouchs-loyal-address/

    Of course digs at Arsenal helped - plus Corbyn being his usual miserable self.
  • FloaterFloater Posts: 14,195
    BigRich said:

    This was quite a 'Fun' loyal address,

    https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=US3uIOAgAKA

    Snap!
  • SandyRentoolSandyRentool Posts: 20,404

    Anorak said:

    MaxPB said:

    MaxPB said:

    Cookie said:

    Anorak said:

    Anorak said:
    Times are changing in the North...

    I was back in Stoke last year and I went into what I would describe as a greasy spoon. I saw behind the counter they had a proper coffee machine and decided to order a double espresso.

    The lady serving dumped said beverage into what I would describe as builders mug, only for the owner to appear from the back with absolute horror....telling her "I told you we now have them special cups for that"....to which the reply was "It all goes down the same doesn't it, anyway what's the point of those tiny things".
    Up in Cumbria lattes or cappuccinos are available pretty much everywhere. They do tend to pronounce the former as "latty" (to rhyme with batty) which makes me smile.

    Yes I know that's a bit condescending, but I'm part of the avocado-loving metropolitan elite, now, and sometimes I can't help myself. Still have gravy on chips, though, so not all is lost.
    I CANNNOT STAND the pronunciation of 'latte' as 'lar-tay'. Pronounced thus it is perhaps the ponciest word in the English language. In this part of the world we use the short 'a' and we place the emphasis on the first syllable of two-syllable words. (I always struggled with Cherie Blair - or, as I preferred, Cherry Blair - for the same reason.) Therefore, it's a latty. Correctness doesn't come into it.

    Happily, it's not a word I ever have cause to pronounce.
    If you're saying latte you're doing it wrong in the first place, the liberal elites are all drinking Cortados, sometimes with oat milk.
    Personally I prefer Almond milk...
    No, nut milks are out because of the huge environmental damage they cause and because Oatly barista is the king of non-dairy now.
    Does that mean my membership application for the metropolitan elite club will be rejected?
    It's a yellow card offence. You now have to name 4 types of avocado and pronounce quinoa 'properly' to redeem yourself.
    What's quinoa?
    I'm curious about the 4 types of acocado myself.

    I'm guessing: Unripe, nearly ripe, ripe and guacamole.
    I thought that the Avocado Number was 6.02 x 10^23
  • SandpitSandpit Posts: 49,614
    BigRich said:

    This was quite a 'Fun' loyal address,

    https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=US3uIOAgAKA

    That was very good. :smiley: well written.

    Penny Mordaunt did a good one a couple of years ago too, as was referenced in this speech. Some traditions of Parliament should definitely be maintained.
  • Anorak said:
    Anyone know what's going to happen to those half a dozen other "New Centrist Parties" which various millionaires/journalists were trying to get off the ground at various points over the last parliament? Are they all being quietly shut down too? If a Corbynalike wins the Labour leadership election, presumably the incentive to try creating a New Centrist Party is still there, aside from door to Remain being firmly closed now.

    One of the more interesting public observations Dom Cummings has made (and which I think is broadly accurate) is that you don't need massive amounts of money to create outsized changes in politics - at least in the UK, a couple of million in donations counts as a "lot" of money. Can even be game-changing at a national level, eventually. Certainly helped the Brexit cause over the three decades or so that it was run as a professional operation, that they were able to attract some hefty pockets early on. Yet there are small-town multi-millionaires all over the country, you can even reach that level from successful professional career if you take care to save/invest, can even be an employee rather than an entrepreneur with your own business. And there are loads of people with a couple of hundred million, far more than there are bilionaires, most of whom we've simply never heard of.

    Yet the New Centrist Party projects suggest money isn't everything, seems lots of cash has gone in to them for zilch result. (Ditto, going back to the pre-Cameroon era, to the attempts of centre-right businesspeople to create a replacement for the Tories when their opposition appeared utterly ineffective.)
  • BigRichBigRich Posts: 3,489
    Anorak said:
    The 'Independent group for Change' did beat the 'Official Monster Raving Loony party'

    IGFC: 10,006
    OMRL: 9,739

    But it was close, pity there will not be a next time.
  • Sandpit said:

    Mrs May demonstrating why former PMs should continue to serve.

    Indeed, and unusual in recent times. She messed up as PM, but still believes in the calling of public service, representing the people of Maidenhead.
    She also appears to think she still has role in representing the people of Scotland. Sorry luv, that ship has sailed.
    Like all other UK MPs she is 1/650th of the representation for Scotland on non-devolved matters. If you'd won your referendum it would be different, but you didn't and you've got most of a generation to wait to change that now.
    If only you were someone of note rather than an anonymous bloke on a wee website, such an utterance could be added to the growing pile of 'this is what they think of your votes, Jocks'.
  • CookieCookie Posts: 11,184
    Omnium said:

    Cookie said:

    Omnium said:

    Cookie said:

    Anorak said:

    Anorak said:
    Times are changing in the North...

    I was back in Stoke last year and I went into what I would describe as a greasy spoon. I saw behind the counter they had a proper coffee machine and decided to order a double espresso.

    The lady serving dumped said beverage into what I would describe as builders mug, only for the owner to appear from the back with absolute horror....telling her "I told you we now have them special cups for that"....to which the reply was "It all goes down the same doesn't it, anyway what's the point of those tiny things".
    Up in Cumbria lattes or cappuccinos are available pretty much everywhere. They do tend to pronounce the former as "latty" (to rhyme with batty) which makes me smile.

    Yes I know that's a bit condescending, but I'm part of the avocado-loving metropolitan elite, now, and sometimes I can't help myself. Still have gravy on chips, though, so not all is lost.
    I CANNNOT STAND the pronunciation of 'latte' as 'lar-tay'. Pronounced thus it is perhaps the ponciest word in the English language. In this part of the world we use the short 'a' and we place the emphasis on the first syllable of two-syllable words. (I always struggled with Cherie Blair - or, as I preferred, Cherry Blair - for the same reason.) Therefore, it's a latty. Correctness doesn't come into it.

    Happily, it's not a word I ever have cause to pronounce.
    Other countries with other languages exist you know.
    And in those countries they can pronounce their words how they like. :-)
    Go on then, how do you pronounce 'cappuccino'?
    I have no objection to capuccino. Nice flat 'a', nice short second syllable. And to be clear I don't mind how the Italians pronoince it. But as part of an English sentence, 'lar-tay' just grates to my Mancunian ears.

    While on this particular hobbyhorse, I also find jarring the words horrid, movie and dessert, which are twee, American and pretentious versions of horrible, film and pudding, respectively, respectively.

    Anyway, what I want from coffee is coffee. Not coffee flavoured milk or coffee flavoured froth. And not an Americano, which is an English version of an Italian version of an American bersion of coffee. Just a normal cup of filter coffee. It frustrates me greatly that this appears to be so difficult to obtain.

    I'm not saying these Italian versions of coffee shouldn't exist. But I lament that they apoear to be crowding out normal coffee. And that I have to wait three times as long ans pay twice as much for my hot drink.
  • ydoethurydoethur Posts: 66,767
    BigRich said:

    Anorak said:
    The 'Independent group for Change' did beat the 'Official Monster Raving Loony party'

    IGFC: 10,006
    OMRL: 9,739

    But it was close, pity there will not be a next time.
    The OMRLP was facing severe competition in its chosen market.

    Change UK was not.
  • MarqueeMarkMarqueeMark Posts: 49,961
    I hope the tradition will continue well into the New Year of constantly reminding us how many votes the PM has won and lost......
  • ydoethurydoethur Posts: 66,767
    Ummmm...if they have no responsibility for Skwawkbox, as claimed in the last paragraph (1) how did it get hold of confidential information and (2) why were they funding Walker’s legal costs?

    I do hope their press department has thought through the implications of that remark....

    ...because if not, McCluskey and anyone else involved in this case is right now staring at criminal charges.
  • Sandpit said:

    Even with a decent sized majority, stuff like that is going to struggle to get through.

    The antics of the anti-Brexit MPs really have opened Pandora’s box of constitutional vandalism, but the government would be better off trying to get it closed again.
    I can't quite work out what they think they achieve by doing this. It just opens the prospect of future governments doing the same. Imagine a supreme court stuffed full of Corbynites.
    A common complaint of right-wing Tories is that public institutions, quangos, commissions etc etc are stuffed full of centre-left types - not just the result of Blair/Brown but also that Cameron and May largely resisted the temptation to appoint a wave of Tory-leaning public figures onto them (which was a serious annoyance to those who hated "Common Purpose" and thought the Tories should play der lange Marsch durch die Institutionen game too).

    Really don't think even right-wing Tories would want to see something similar in the courts. On the other hand, much as I dislike the practical effects that elected judges have had on the state of US law and the use of judges and courts as political weapons, there is something that nags away in the back of my mind about whether there ought to be some form of democratic accountability for senior members of the judiciary bearing in mind the power they hold.
  • SandpitSandpit Posts: 49,614

    Anorak said:
    Anyone know what's going to happen to those half a dozen other "New Centrist Parties" which various millionaires/journalists were trying to get off the ground at various points over the last parliament? Are they all being quietly shut down too? If a Corbynalike wins the Labour leadership election, presumably the incentive to try creating a New Centrist Party is still there, aside from door to Remain being firmly closed now.

    One of the more interesting public observations Dom Cummings has made (and which I think is broadly accurate) is that you don't need massive amounts of money to create outsized changes in politics - at least in the UK, a couple of million in donations counts as a "lot" of money. Can even be game-changing at a national level, eventually. Certainly helped the Brexit cause over the three decades or so that it was run as a professional operation, that they were able to attract some hefty pockets early on. Yet there are small-town multi-millionaires all over the country, you can even reach that level from successful professional career if you take care to save/invest, can even be an employee rather than an entrepreneur with your own business. And there are loads of people with a couple of hundred million, far more than there are bilionaires, most of whom we've simply never heard of.

    Yet the New Centrist Party projects suggest money isn't everything, seems lots of cash has gone in to them for zilch result. (Ditto, going back to the pre-Cameroon era, to the attempts of centre-right businesspeople to create a replacement for the Tories when their opposition appeared utterly ineffective.)
    The problem was that all the 'New Centrist Party' proposals in recent years were bourne primarily out of the desire of metropolitan liberals taking an extreme position of trying to overturn the 2016 EU referendum, rather than a genuinely centrist position. The 'centre ground' in London and on Twitter, is definitely not the centre ground in the country as a whole.

    Many of us have said that government needs good opposition though, and if Labour go with another Corbynite and the LDs can't drop their devotion to the EU, there's definitely a gap in the middle for a party that's fiscally sound and libertarian.
  • CookieCookie Posts: 11,184
    BigRich said:

    Anorak said:
    The 'Independent group for Change' did beat the 'Official Monster Raving Loony party'

    IGFC: 10,006
    OMRL: 9,739

    But it was close, pity there will not be a next time.
    Well, they tried their best and failed miserably. An object lesson in how not to do it. But I hope history remembers them kindly for making a stand even though failure was likely, because not trying at all would have been the bigger failure. If more had taken a stand, maybe we might be on our way to a decent and sane opposition by now. Instead of which, Tom Watson manages to stop anyone else TIGging, then gave up himself and stood aside as his own seat was lost. Who is the bigger failure, Chuka or Tom?
  • Cookie said:


    Anyway, what I want from coffee is coffee. Not coffee flavoured milk or coffee flavoured froth. And not an Americano, which is an English version of an Italian version of an American bersion of coffee. Just a normal cup of filter coffee. It frustrates me greatly that this appears to be so difficult to obtain.

    Most of the well known chains sell filter coffee at a fraction of the price of an Americano. They don't push it, however, probably for that reason.
  • SandpitSandpit Posts: 49,614
    If 2019's popcorn supply was decimated by Brexit and politics, 2020's is going to disappear watching the woke left identitarians eating themselves - starting with the epic battle to the death between the feminists and the trans activists.
  • Pro_RataPro_Rata Posts: 4,785
    Cookie said:

    Omnium said:

    Cookie said:

    Omnium said:

    Cookie said:

    Anorak said:

    Anorak said:
    Times are changing in the North...

    I was back in Stoke last year and I went into what I would describe as a greasy spoon. I saw behind the counter they had a proper coffee machine and decided to order a double espresso.

    The lady serving dumped said beverage into what I would describe as builders mug, only for the owner to appear from the back with absolute horror....telling her "I told you we now have them special cups for that"....to which the reply was "It all goes down the same doesn't it, anyway what's the point of those tiny things".
    Up in Cumbria lattes or cappuccinos are available pretty much everywhere. They do tend to pronounce the former as "latty".

    Yes I know that's a bit condescending... I can't help myself. Still have gravy on chips, though.
    I CANNNOT STAND the pronunciation of 'latte' as 'lar-tay'. In this part of the world we use the short 'a' and we place the emphasis on the first syllable of two-syllable words. (I always struggled with Cherie Blair - or, as I preferred, Cherry Blair - for the same reason.) Therefore, it's a latty. Correctness doesn't come into it.

    Happily, it's not a word I ever have cause to pronounce.
    Other countries with other languages exist you know.
    And in those countries they can pronounce their words how they like. :-)
    Go on then, how do you pronounce 'cappuccino'?
    I have no objection to capuccino. Nice flat 'a', nice short second syllable. And to be clear I don't mind how the Italians pronoince it. But as part of an English sentence, 'lar-tay' just grates to my Mancunian ears.

    While on this particular hobbyhorse, I also find jarring the words horrid, movie and dessert, which are twee, American and pretentious versions of horrible, film and pudding, respectively, respectively.

    Anyway, what I want from coffee is coffee. Not coffee flavoured milk or coffee flavoured froth. And not an Americano, which is an English version of an Italian version of an American bersion of coffee. Just a normal cup of filter coffee. It frustrates me greatly that this appears to be so difficult to obtain.

    I'm not saying these Italian versions of coffee shouldn't exist. But I lament that they apoear to be crowding out normal coffee. And that I have to wait three times as long ans pay twice as much for my hot drink.
    Oh, no. Mrs Rata is a misuser of the long a in foreign words where it simply doesn't belong. Barvaria is like nails down a chalkboard to my set of Manchester ears.
  • OldKingColeOldKingCole Posts: 31,722
    Sandpit said:

    Anorak said:
    Anyone know what's going to happen to those half a dozen other "New Centrist Parties" which various millionaires/journalists were trying to get off the ground at various points over the last parliament? Are they all being quietly shut down too? If a Corbynalike wins the Labour leadership election, presumably the incentive to try creating a New Centrist Party is still there, aside from door to Remain being firmly closed now.

    One of the more interesting public observations Dom Cummings has made (and which I think is broadly accurate) is that you don't need massive amounts of money to create outsized changes in politics - at least in the UK, a couple of million in donations counts as a "lot" of money. Can even be game-changing at a national level, eventually. Certainly helped the Brexit cause over the three decades or so that it was run as a professional operation, that they were able to attract some hefty pockets early on. Yet there are small-town multi-millionaires all over the country, you can even reach that level from successful professional career if you take care to save/invest, can even be an employee rather than an entrepreneur with your own business. And there are loads of people with a couple of hundred million, far more than there are bilionaires, most of whom we've simply never heard of.

    Yet the New Centrist Party projects suggest money isn't everything, seems lots of cash has gone in to them for zilch result. (Ditto, going back to the pre-Cameroon era, to the attempts of centre-right businesspeople to create a replacement for the Tories when their opposition appeared utterly ineffective.)
    The problem was that all the 'New Centrist Party' proposals in recent years were bourne primarily out of the desire of metropolitan liberals taking an extreme position of trying to overturn the 2016 EU referendum, rather than a genuinely centrist position. The 'centre ground' in London and on Twitter, is definitely not the centre ground in the country as a whole.

    Many of us have said that government needs good opposition though, and if Labour go with another Corbynite and the LDs can't drop their devotion to the EU, there's definitely a gap in the middle for a party that's fiscally sound and libertarian.
    Time for a Liberal revival. Today Ryedale, tomorrow......... who knows. There are no limits.
  • CookieCookie Posts: 11,184

    Cookie said:


    Anyway, what I want from coffee is coffee. Not coffee flavoured milk or coffee flavoured froth. And not an Americano, which is an English version of an Italian version of an American bersion of coffee. Just a normal cup of filter coffee. It frustrates me greatly that this appears to be so difficult to obtain.

    Most of the well known chains sell filter coffee at a fraction of the price of an Americano. They don't push it, however, probably for that reason.
    Starbucks does. But it turned out I only went there because I liked tge carrot cake, which they don't do any more, or at least not the same. And Pret does, very cheaply, as you say. Nero and Costa donw, I don't think, and most independents don't seem to. This is a minor grievance I have nursed for some time!
  • AndrewAndrew Posts: 2,900
    edited December 2019
    BigRich said:


    The 'Independent group for Change' did beat the 'Official Monster Raving Loony party'

    IGFC: 10,006
    OMRL: 9,739

    But it was close, pity there will not be a next time.


    On the one hand, 5 MPs (at one point 11!), and the mighty Anna Soubry.

    On the other, Lord Buckethead.


    The electorate, in all their wisdom, judged their relative merits and made it roughly a draw.

  • Cookie said:

    Cookie said:


    Anyway, what I want from coffee is coffee. Not coffee flavoured milk or coffee flavoured froth. And not an Americano, which is an English version of an Italian version of an American bersion of coffee. Just a normal cup of filter coffee. It frustrates me greatly that this appears to be so difficult to obtain.

    Most of the well known chains sell filter coffee at a fraction of the price of an Americano. They don't push it, however, probably for that reason.
    Starbucks does. But it turned out I only went there because I liked tge carrot cake, which they don't do any more, or at least not the same. And Pret does, very cheaply, as you say. Nero and Costa donw, I don't think, and most independents don't seem to. This is a minor grievance I have nursed for some time!
    If only Jezza had won the GE, we could all be looking forward to the nationalised Pret serving subsidised Oat milk latte to the masses.
  • AlistairAlistair Posts: 23,670

    Couldn't have happened to a less deserving candidate since...

    https://twitter.com/paulwaugh/status/1207701008958283776?s=20

    If I'd stood on a manifesto which proudly trumpeted it would keep FPTP as it allows Constituents to vote out underperforming MPs to get them out of government I'd probably feel a smidgen of shame.

    Probably.
  • Cookie said:

    Cookie said:


    Anyway, what I want from coffee is coffee. Not coffee flavoured milk or coffee flavoured froth. And not an Americano, which is an English version of an Italian version of an American bersion of coffee. Just a normal cup of filter coffee. It frustrates me greatly that this appears to be so difficult to obtain.

    Most of the well known chains sell filter coffee at a fraction of the price of an Americano. They don't push it, however, probably for that reason.
    Starbucks does. But it turned out I only went there because I liked tge carrot cake, which they don't do any more, or at least not the same. And Pret does, very cheaply, as you say. Nero and Costa donw, I don't think, and most independents don't seem to. This is a minor grievance I have nursed for some time!
    Costa very much do serve filter coffee. Caffe Nero I can't comment on straight away.
  • Sandpit said:

    Anorak said:
    Anyone know what's going to happen to those half a dozen other "New Centrist Parties" which various millionaires/journalists were trying to get off the ground at various points over the last parliament? Are they all being quietly shut down too? If a Corbynalike wins the Labour leadership election, presumably the incentive to try creating a New Centrist Party is still there, aside from door to Remain being firmly closed now.

    One of the more interesting public observations Dom Cummings has made (and which I think is broadly accurate) is that you don't need massive amounts of money to create outsized changes in politics - at least in the UK, a couple of million in donations counts as a "lot" of money. Can even be game-changing at a national level, eventually. Certainly helped the Brexit cause over the three decades or so that it was run as a professional operation, that they were able to attract some hefty pockets early on. Yet there are small-town multi-millionaires all over the country, you can even reach that level from successful professional career if you take care to save/invest, can even be an employee rather than an entrepreneur with your own business. And there are loads of people with a couple of hundred million, far more than there are bilionaires, most of whom we've simply never heard of.

    Yet the New Centrist Party projects suggest money isn't everything, seems lots of cash has gone in to them for zilch result. (Ditto, going back to the pre-Cameroon era, to the attempts of centre-right businesspeople to create a replacement for the Tories when their opposition appeared utterly ineffective.)
    The problem was that all the 'New Centrist Party' proposals in recent years were bourne primarily out of the desire of metropolitan liberals taking an extreme position of trying to overturn the 2016 EU referendum, rather than a genuinely centrist position. The 'centre ground' in London and on Twitter, is definitely not the centre ground in the country as a whole.

    Many of us have said that government needs good opposition though, and if Labour go with another Corbynite and the LDs can't drop their devotion to the EU, there's definitely a gap in the middle for a party that's fiscally sound and libertarian.
    Whilst we all need to move on and accept Brexit is happening, we dont need to accept remain is or was an extremist position or solely the domain of metropolitan liberals. Pretty much half the country want to remain and half the country want to leave. Remain isnt the centre ground on Brexit, but that is because there no longer is a centre ground on Brexit if there ever was.
  • ydoethurydoethur Posts: 66,767
    Andrew said:

    BigRich said:


    The 'Independent group for Change' did beat the 'Official Monster Raving Loony party'

    IGFC: 10,006
    OMRL: 9,739

    But it was close, pity there will not be a next time.


    On the one hand, 5 MPs (at one point 11!), and the mighty Anna Soubry.

    On the other, Lord Buckethead.


    The electorate, in all their wisdom, judged their relative merits and made it roughly a draw.

    Really? I thought Lord Buckethead won his seat and 364 others.

    Oh sorry...you meant the REAL Lord Buckethead.
  • BigRichBigRich Posts: 3,489
    Interesting,

    So the union is thinking of appealing the verdict, how much will that cost if it goes wrong?

  • ydoethurydoethur Posts: 66,767
    BigRich said:

    Interesting,

    So the union is thinking of appealing the verdict, how much will that cost if it goes wrong?

    They would have to apply for leave to appeal, to start with. And given they had to withdraw large chunks of their case because it was obvious to their barrister that they were untenable I really don’t see that an appeal is going anywhere. At best, it makes UNITE’s financial exposure worse and potentially leaves McCluskey further open to attack.
  • SandpitSandpit Posts: 49,614

    Sandpit said:

    The problem was that all the 'New Centrist Party' proposals in recent years were bourne primarily out of the desire of metropolitan liberals taking an extreme position of trying to overturn the 2016 EU referendum, rather than a genuinely centrist position. The 'centre ground' in London and on Twitter, is definitely not the centre ground in the country as a whole.

    Many of us have said that government needs good opposition though, and if Labour go with another Corbynite and the LDs can't drop their devotion to the EU, there's definitely a gap in the middle for a party that's fiscally sound and libertarian.
    Time for a Liberal revival. Today Ryedale, tomorrow......... who knows. There are no limits.
    I would like to think that, once we leave the EU, there will indeed be a liberal revival. A choice of acceptable candidates at an election* would be a good thing, as would a check on the more authoritarian instincts of some Conservatives.

    *This year, we had the Tories, the racist marxists and the illiberal undemocrats. Guess what, the Tories won, not necessarily because they inspired people, but because so many average people couldn't bring themselves to vote for the others. Their challenge now is to hold on to those negative votes, and turn them into positive votes in five years' time.
  • Cookie said:


    Anyway, what I want from coffee is coffee. Not coffee flavoured milk or coffee flavoured froth. And not an Americano, which is an English version of an Italian version of an American bersion of coffee. Just a normal cup of filter coffee. It frustrates me greatly that this appears to be so difficult to obtain.

    Most of the well known chains sell filter coffee at a fraction of the price of an Americano. They don't push it, however, probably for that reason.
    Pret do a filter coffee fr 99p and give you 50p off if you take your own reusable cup, so you can get a cup of coffee from them for 49p.
  • AlistairAlistair Posts: 23,670
    The funniest thing about transphobes is watching them twist and turn in their definitions.

    Go back a couple of years and you see them banging on about chromosomes.
    When it was pointed out that there are people with XY chromosomes but fully functioning female sex organs they turned out to always have been at war with Eurasia and definitions started shifting.

    A few moths ago, in response to biologists pointing out there is way more complexity around physical sex in the animal kingdom and strictly binary male/female, they learned about gametes and suddenly they are all talking about large and small gamete producers.

    Their twitter account handles and blog name are still festooned with XX all over them even as they deny it was ever about chromosomes.

    Now they are banging on about 'sex based rights' as if it is a long used term with great history behind it as opposed to some amorphous phrase they dreamt up a few weeks ago.
  • Pro_Rata said:

    Cookie said:

    Omnium said:

    Cookie said:

    Omnium said:

    Cookie said:

    Anorak said:

    Anorak said:
    to which the reply was "It all goes down the same doesn't it, anyway what's the point of those tiny things".
    Up in Cumbria lattes or cappuccinos are available pretty much everywhere. They do tend to pronounce the former as "latty".

    Yes I know that's a bit condescending... I can't help myself. Still have gravy on chips, though.
    I CANNNOT STAND the pronunciation of 'latte' as 'lar-tay'. In this part of the world we use the short 'a' and we place the emphasis on the first syllable of two-syllable words. (I always struggled with Cherie Blair - or, as I preferred, Cherry Blair - for the same reason.) Therefore, it's a latty. Correctness doesn't come into it.

    Happily, it's not a word I ever have cause to pronounce.
    Other countries with other languages exist you know.
    And in those countries they can pronounce their words how they like. :-)
    Go on then, how do you pronounce 'cappuccino'?
    I have no objection to capuccino. Nice flat 'a', nice short second syllable. And to be clear I don't mind how the Italians pronoince it. But as part of an English sentence, 'lar-tay' just grates to my Mancunian ears.

    While on this particular hobbyhorse, I also find jarring the words horrid, movie and dessert, which are twee, American and pretentious versions of horrible, film and pudding, respectively, respectively.

    Anyway, what I want from coffee is coffee. Not coffee flavoured milk or coffee flavoured froth. And not an Americano, which is an English version of an Italian version of an American bersion of coffee. Just a normal cup of filter coffee. It frustrates me greatly that this appears to be so difficult to obtain.

    I'm not saying these Italian versions of coffee shouldn't exist. But I lament that they apoear to be crowding out normal coffee. And that I have to wait three times as long ans pay twice as much for my hot drink.
    Oh, no. Mrs Rata is a misuser of the long a in foreign words where it simply doesn't belong. Barvaria is like nails down a chalkboard to my set of Manchester ears.
    Quite right. Flat vowels just sound better.

    I absolutely love going home, and hearing people ask for a Latt-ih (yes, we have coffee shops on the Lancs/West Yorks border, Stephen bloody Kinnock).
  • Cookie said:

    Cookie said:


    Anyway, what I want from coffee is coffee. Not coffee flavoured milk or coffee flavoured froth. And not an Americano, which is an English version of an Italian version of an American bersion of coffee. Just a normal cup of filter coffee. It frustrates me greatly that this appears to be so difficult to obtain.

    Most of the well known chains sell filter coffee at a fraction of the price of an Americano. They don't push it, however, probably for that reason.
    Starbucks does. But it turned out I only went there because I liked tge carrot cake, which they don't do any more, or at least not the same. And Pret does, very cheaply, as you say. Nero and Costa donw, I don't think, and most independents don't seem to. This is a minor grievance I have nursed for some time!
    Costa very much do serve filter coffee. Caffe Nero I can't comment on straight away.
    Not any of the ones I’ve been in. Starbucks claims to, but most ones I’ve been in haven’t turned on the right machine.
  • SandpitSandpit Posts: 49,614

    Sandpit said:

    The problem was that all the 'New Centrist Party' proposals in recent years were bourne primarily out of the desire of metropolitan liberals taking an extreme position of trying to overturn the 2016 EU referendum, rather than a genuinely centrist position. The 'centre ground' in London and on Twitter, is definitely not the centre ground in the country as a whole.

    Many of us have said that government needs good opposition though, and if Labour go with another Corbynite and the LDs can't drop their devotion to the EU, there's definitely a gap in the middle for a party that's fiscally sound and libertarian.
    Whilst we all need to move on and accept Brexit is happening, we dont need to accept remain is or was an extremist position or solely the domain of metropolitan liberals. Pretty much half the country want to remain and half the country want to leave. Remain isnt the centre ground on Brexit, but that is because there no longer is a centre ground on Brexit if there ever was.
    Pretty close to half voted to remain, indeed, but it's a very select group of Metropolitans that have spent the last three years attempting to overturn the result by any means necessary.
  • SandpitSandpit Posts: 49,614
    BigRich said:

    Interesting,

    So the union is thinking of appealing the verdict, how much will that cost if it goes wrong?

    Appealing a civil case judgement, because you can't afford or don't want to pay the costs, rarely works out well.
    Usually it ends up with a lot more costs. Hope Unite members are watching closely as to where Len spends their hard-earned money.
  • NigelbNigelb Posts: 61,584

    Cookie said:

    Cookie said:


    Anyway, what I want from coffee is coffee. Not coffee flavoured milk or coffee flavoured froth. And not an Americano, which is an English version of an Italian version of an American bersion of coffee. Just a normal cup of filter coffee. It frustrates me greatly that this appears to be so difficult to obtain.

    Most of the well known chains sell filter coffee at a fraction of the price of an Americano. They don't push it, however, probably for that reason.
    Starbucks does. But it turned out I only went there because I liked tge carrot cake, which they don't do any more, or at least not the same. And Pret does, very cheaply, as you say. Nero and Costa donw, I don't think, and most independents don't seem to. This is a minor grievance I have nursed for some time!
    Costa very much do serve filter coffee. Caffe Nero I can't comment on straight away.
    Not any of the ones I’ve been in. Starbucks claims to, but most ones I’ve been in haven’t turned on the right machine.
    Any decent independent should offer the option of filter and aeropress.
  • Luckyguy1983Luckyguy1983 Posts: 25,047
    Is horrid an American word? Sounds pretty British to me. I'm not one for knowingly using American words or pronunciations when there's nothing wrong with the British version. I even use 'schedule' with a soft 'sh', which has all but died out amongst my generation.
  • Anorak said:

    MaxPB said:

    MaxPB said:

    Cookie said:

    Anorak said:

    Anorak said:
    Times are changing in the North...

    I was back in Stoke last year and I went into what I would describe as a greasy spoon. I saw behind the counter they had a proper coffee machine and decided to order a double espresso.

    The lady serving dumped said beverage into what I would describe as builders mug, only for the owner to appear from the back with absolute horror....telling her "I told you we now have them special cups for that"....to which the reply was "It all goes down the same doesn't it, anyway what's the point of those tiny things".
    Up in Cumbria lattes or cappuccinos are available pretty much everywhere. They do tend to pronounce the former as "latty" (to rhyme with batty) which makes me smile.

    Yes I know that's a bit condescending, but I'm part of the avocado-loving metropolitan elite, now, and sometimes I can't help myself. Still have gravy on chips, though, so not all is lost.
    I CANNNOT STAND the pronunciation of 'latte' as 'lar-tay'. Pronounced thus it is perhaps the ponciest word in the English language. In this part of the world we use the short 'a' and we place the emphasis on the first syllable of two-syllable words. (I always struggled with Cherie Blair - or, as I preferred, Cherry Blair - for the same reason.) Therefore, it's a latty. Correctness doesn't come into it.

    Happily, it's not a word I ever have cause to pronounce.
    If you're saying latte you're doing it wrong in the first place, the liberal elites are all drinking Cortados, sometimes with oat milk.
    Personally I prefer Almond milk...
    No, nut milks are out because of the huge environmental damage they cause and because Oatly barista is the king of non-dairy now.
    Does that mean my membership application for the metropolitan elite club will be rejected?
    It's a yellow card offence. You now have to name 4 types of avocado and pronounce quinoa 'properly' to redeem yourself.
    What's quinoa?
    I'm curious about the 4 types of acocado myself.

    I'm guessing: Unripe, nearly ripe, ripe and guacamole.
    I thought that the Avocado Number was 6.02 x 10^23
    very good....:)
  • CookieCookie Posts: 11,184

    Cookie said:

    Cookie said:


    Anyway, what I want from coffee is coffee. Not coffee flavoured milk or coffee flavoured froth. And not an Americano, which is an English version of an Italian version of an American bersion of coffee. Just a normal cup of filter coffee. It frustrates me greatly that this appears to be so difficult to obtain.

    Most of the well known chains sell filter coffee at a fraction of the price of an Americano. They don't push it, however, probably for that reason.
    Starbucks does. But it turned out I only went there because I liked tge carrot cake, which they don't do any more, or at least not the same. And Pret does, very cheaply, as you say. Nero and Costa donw, I don't think, and most independents don't seem to. This is a minor grievance I have nursed for some time!
    Costa very much do serve filter coffee. Caffe Nero I can't comment on straight away.
    Well next time I'm in Costa I will try again. I look forward to making my case, and if I am successful I will be very grateful to you.
  • Is horrid an American word? Sounds pretty British to me. I'm not one for knowingly using American words or pronunciations when there's nothing wrong with the British version. I even use 'schedule' with a soft 'sh', which has all but died out amongst my generation.

    I would probably use horrible rather than horrid, although there is a nursery rhyme that uses it I think.
  • QuincelQuincel Posts: 3,949
    OT: The market is right to have priced in an impeachment vote. It wasn't always inevitable that the House would hold an impeachment vote, but it was inevitable once they chose to do so that it would pass.
  • NigelbNigelb Posts: 61,584

    Is horrid an American word? Sounds pretty British to me. I'm not one for knowingly using American words or pronunciations when there's nothing wrong with the British version. I even use 'schedule' with a soft 'sh', which has all but died out amongst my generation.

    No. Its use predates the existence of the USA by several centuries.
  • Alistair said:

    The funniest thing about transphobes is watching them twist and turn in their definitions.
    The issue is complex and needs careful consideration.

    However, there are clearly some who need exposure:\

    https://www.telegraph.co.uk/news/2019/10/23/canadian-transgender-woman-loses-case-against-beauticians-refused/
  • Alistair said:

    Couldn't have happened to a less deserving candidate since...

    https://twitter.com/paulwaugh/status/1207701008958283776?s=20

    If I'd stood on a manifesto which proudly trumpeted it would keep FPTP as it allows Constituents to vote out underperforming MPs to get them out of government I'd probably feel a smidgen of shame.

    Probably.
    Boris? Shame? Where have you been?
  • spudgfshspudgfsh Posts: 1,300
    Sandpit said:


    The problem was that all the 'New Centrist Party' proposals in recent years were bourne primarily out of the desire of metropolitan liberals taking an extreme position of trying to overturn the 2016 EU referendum, rather than a genuinely centrist position. The 'centre ground' in London and on Twitter, is definitely not the centre ground in the country as a whole.

    Many of us have said that government needs good opposition though, and if Labour go with another Corbynite and the LDs can't drop their devotion to the EU, there's definitely a gap in the middle for a party that's fiscally sound and libertarian.

    When it comes to the LibDems there will always be a position of 'rejoin' once we have left but it will not be the foremost policy of the party at future elections. The problem they had this time is there was very little said about their other policies at this election. The next one won't be so constrained to Brexit as Boris will get it done.
  • Sandpit said:

    Sandpit said:

    The problem was that all the 'New Centrist Party' proposals in recent years were bourne primarily out of the desire of metropolitan liberals taking an extreme position of trying to overturn the 2016 EU referendum, rather than a genuinely centrist position. The 'centre ground' in London and on Twitter, is definitely not the centre ground in the country as a whole.

    Many of us have said that government needs good opposition though, and if Labour go with another Corbynite and the LDs can't drop their devotion to the EU, there's definitely a gap in the middle for a party that's fiscally sound and libertarian.
    Whilst we all need to move on and accept Brexit is happening, we dont need to accept remain is or was an extremist position or solely the domain of metropolitan liberals. Pretty much half the country want to remain and half the country want to leave. Remain isnt the centre ground on Brexit, but that is because there no longer is a centre ground on Brexit if there ever was.
    Pretty close to half voted to remain, indeed, but it's a very select group of Metropolitans that have spent the last three years attempting to overturn the result by any means necessary.
    By definition the people withe the power to influence policy at that level are a select group, and most live in London because thats where parliament is.

    Your interpretation of events is based on your leave perceptions and a recency bias, for most of the 3 year period most of the "remain" politicians were trying to get a soft Brexit. It is only in the last year and mainly the last 9 months when it switched to 2nd ref and revoke.
  • squareroot2squareroot2 Posts: 6,288
    Cookie said:

    Cookie said:

    Cookie said:


    Anyway, what I want from coffee is coffee. Not coffee flavoured milk or coffee flavoured froth. And not an Americano, which is an English version of an Italian version of an American bersion of coffee. Just a normal cup of filter coffee. It frustrates me greatly that this appears to be so difficult to obtain.

    Most of the well known chains sell filter coffee at a fraction of the price of an Americano. They don't push it, however, probably for that reason.
    Starbucks does. But it turned out I only went there because I liked tge carrot cake, which they don't do any more, or at least not the same. And Pret does, very cheaply, as you say. Nero and Costa donw, I don't think, and most independents don't seem to. This is a minor grievance I have nursed for some time!
    Costa very much do serve filter coffee. Caffe Nero I can't comment on straight away.
    Well next time I'm in Costa I will try again. I look forward to making my case, and if I am successful I will be very grateful to you.
    Best coffee around is made by Smallbatch IMHO.
  • Luckyguy1983Luckyguy1983 Posts: 25,047

    Is horrid an American word? Sounds pretty British to me. I'm not one for knowingly using American words or pronunciations when there's nothing wrong with the British version. I even use 'schedule' with a soft 'sh', which has all but died out amongst my generation.

    I would probably use horrible rather than horrid, although there is a nursery rhyme that uses it I think.
    Google tells me that horrid comes from horridus and horrible comes from horribilis in Latin. So if it's Americanism, time travel was involved.
  • CookieCookie Posts: 11,184

    Is horrid an American word? Sounds pretty British to me. I'm not one for knowingly using American words or pronunciations when there's nothing wrong with the British version. I even use 'schedule' with a soft 'sh', which has all but died out amongst my generation.

    No, horrid is a twee word. Very Enid Blyton. Horrid is twee, Movie American and dessert is pretentious (and has the jarring emphasis on the second syllable). My objections to the three words are various.
    I don't object to American words per se. But why use movie when you could use film?
  • Luckyguy1983Luckyguy1983 Posts: 25,047
    Cookie said:

    Is horrid an American word? Sounds pretty British to me. I'm not one for knowingly using American words or pronunciations when there's nothing wrong with the British version. I even use 'schedule' with a soft 'sh', which has all but died out amongst my generation.

    No, horrid is a twee word. Very Enid Blyton. Horrid is twee, Movie American and dessert is pretentious (and has the jarring emphasis on the second syllable). My objections to the three words are various.
    I don't object to American words per se. But why use movie when you could use film?
    I agree on the last, 'movie' is a horrid word. :wink:
  • NigelbNigelb Posts: 61,584

    Sandpit said:

    Sandpit said:

    The problem was that all the 'New Centrist Party' proposals in recent years were bourne primarily out of the desire of metropolitan liberals taking an extreme position of trying to overturn the 2016 EU referendum, rather than a genuinely centrist position. The 'centre ground' in London and on Twitter, is definitely not the centre ground in the country as a whole.

    Many of us have said that government needs good opposition though, and if Labour go with another Corbynite and the LDs can't drop their devotion to the EU, there's definitely a gap in the middle for a party that's fiscally sound and libertarian.
    Whilst we all need to move on and accept Brexit is happening, we dont need to accept remain is or was an extremist position or solely the domain of metropolitan liberals. Pretty much half the country want to remain and half the country want to leave. Remain isnt the centre ground on Brexit, but that is because there no longer is a centre ground on Brexit if there ever was.
    Pretty close to half voted to remain, indeed, but it's a very select group of Metropolitans that have spent the last three years attempting to overturn the result by any means necessary.
    By definition the people withe the power to influence policy at that level are a select group, and most live in London because thats where parliament is.

    Your interpretation of events is based on your leave perceptions and a recency bias, for most of the 3 year period most of the "remain" politicians were trying to get a soft Brexit. It is only in the last year and mainly the last 9 months when it switched to 2nd ref and revoke.
    Sandpit is either still fighting the last election, or somehow convinced that Boris actually leads a “People’s Government”.
  • NigelbNigelb Posts: 61,584

    Cookie said:

    Is horrid an American word? Sounds pretty British to me. I'm not one for knowingly using American words or pronunciations when there's nothing wrong with the British version. I even use 'schedule' with a soft 'sh', which has all but died out amongst my generation.

    No, horrid is a twee word. Very Enid Blyton. Horrid is twee, Movie American and dessert is pretentious (and has the jarring emphasis on the second syllable). My objections to the three words are various.
    I don't object to American words per se. But why use movie when you could use film?
    I agree on the last, 'movie' is a horrid word. :wink:
    Film is now pretty well obsolete, so movie - which was coined by the nation which gave us the form - will have to do.
  • Nigelb said:

    Sandpit said:

    Sandpit said:

    The problem was that all the 'New Centrist Party' proposals in recent years were bourne primarily out of the desire of metropolitan liberals taking an extreme position of trying to overturn the 2016 EU referendum, rather than a genuinely centrist position. The 'centre ground' in London and on Twitter, is definitely not the centre ground in the country as a whole.

    Many of us have said that government needs good opposition though, and if Labour go with another Corbynite and the LDs can't drop their devotion to the EU, there's definitely a gap in the middle for a party that's fiscally sound and libertarian.
    Whilst we all need to move on and accept Brexit is happening, we dont need to accept remain is or was an extremist position or solely the domain of metropolitan liberals. Pretty much half the country want to remain and half the country want to leave. Remain isnt the centre ground on Brexit, but that is because there no longer is a centre ground on Brexit if there ever was.
    Pretty close to half voted to remain, indeed, but it's a very select group of Metropolitans that have spent the last three years attempting to overturn the result by any means necessary.
    By definition the people withe the power to influence policy at that level are a select group, and most live in London because thats where parliament is.

    Your interpretation of events is based on your leave perceptions and a recency bias, for most of the 3 year period most of the "remain" politicians were trying to get a soft Brexit. It is only in the last year and mainly the last 9 months when it switched to 2nd ref and revoke.
    Sandpit is either still fighting the last election
    I think "he"* won it..

    *Or those he supported..

  • NorthofStokeNorthofStoke Posts: 1,758
    edited December 2019
    OT Part of our current malaise is that the prominent proponents of causes come out "all guns blazing" and see any disagreement as a moral shortcoming, hate crime or an attack on them personally. If I was trying to change the view of the person in the street about gender/sex and identity I would try a more gentle and persuasive tone. For many members of the public PC seems to have constructed a linguistic minefield which can actually result in real damage like being dismissed from a job for getting it wrong.

    Only a minority have the time and inclination to follow every twist and turn of the identity debates. A simple "live and let live" liberalism won't keep the ideologues at bay though.
  • NigelbNigelb Posts: 61,584

    Nigelb said:

    Sandpit said:

    Sandpit said:

    The problem was that all the 'New Centrist Party' proposals in recent years were bourne primarily out of the desire of metropolitan liberals taking an extreme position of trying to overturn the 2016 EU referendum, rather than a genuinely centrist position. The 'centre ground' in London and on Twitter, is definitely not the centre ground in the country as a whole.

    Many of us have said that government needs good opposition though, and if Labour go with another Corbynite and the LDs can't drop their devotion to the EU, there's definitely a gap in the middle for a party that's fiscally sound and libertarian.
    Whilst we all need to move on and accept Brexit is happening, we dont need to accept remain is or was an extremist position or solely the domain of metropolitan liberals. Pretty much half the country want to remain and half the country want to leave. Remain isnt the centre ground on Brexit, but that is because there no longer is a centre ground on Brexit if there ever was.
    Pretty close to half voted to remain, indeed, but it's a very select group of Metropolitans that have spent the last three years attempting to overturn the result by any means necessary.
    By definition the people withe the power to influence policy at that level are a select group, and most live in London because thats where parliament is.

    Your interpretation of events is based on your leave perceptions and a recency bias, for most of the 3 year period most of the "remain" politicians were trying to get a soft Brexit. It is only in the last year and mainly the last 9 months when it switched to 2nd ref and revoke.
    Sandpit is either still fighting the last election
    I think "he"* won it..

    *Or those he supported..

    Which makes his stance all the more ridiculous.

  • OmniumOmnium Posts: 9,688
    Cookie said:

    Omnium said:

    Cookie said:

    Omnium said:

    Cookie said:

    Anorak said:



    Times are changing in the North...

    I was back in Stoke last year and I went into what I would describe as a greasy spoon. I saw behind the counter they had a proper coffee machine and decided to order a double espresso.

    The lady serving dumped said beverage into what I would describe as builders mug, only for the owner to appear from the back with absolute horror....telling her "I told you we now have them special cups for that"....to which the reply was "It all goes down the same doesn't it, anyway what's the point of those tiny things".

    Up in Cumbria lattes or cappuccinos are available pretty much everywhere. They do tend to pronounce the former as "latty" (to rhyme with batty) which makes me smile.

    Yes I know that's a bit condescending, but I'm part of the avocado-loving metropolitan elite, now, and sometimes I can't help myself. Still have gravy on chips, though, so not all is lost.
    I CANNNOT STAND the pronunciation of 'latte' as 'lar-tay'. Pronounced thus it is perhaps the ponciest word in the English language. In this part of the world we use the short 'a' and we place the emphasis on the first syllable of two-syllable words. (I always struggled with Cherie Blair - or, as I preferred, Cherry Blair - for the same reason.) Therefore, it's a latty. Correctness doesn't come into it.

    Happily, it's not a word I ever have cause to pronounce.
    Other countries with other languages exist you know.
    And in those countries they can pronounce their words how they like. :-)
    Go on then, how do you pronounce 'cappuccino'?
    I have no objection to capuccino. Nice flat 'a', nice short second syllable. And to be clear I don't mind how the Italians pronoince it. But as part of an English sentence, 'lar-tay' just grates to my Mancunian ears.

    While on this particular hobbyhorse, I also find jarring the words horrid, movie and dessert, which are twee, American and pretentious versions of horrible, film and pudding, respectively, respectively.

    Anyway, what I want from coffee is coffee. Not coffee flavoured milk or coffee flavoured froth. And not an Americano, which is an English version of an Italian version of an American bersion of coffee. Just a normal cup of filter coffee. It frustrates me greatly that this appears to be so difficult to obtain.

    I'm not saying these Italian versions of coffee shouldn't exist. But I lament that they apoear to be crowding out normal coffee. And that I have to wait three times as long ans pay twice as much for my hot drink.
    I think you'd struggle to define 'normal coffee'
  • spudgfshspudgfsh Posts: 1,300
    (a little late I know) but am I the only one who was hoping that Boris would get the Queen to say 'My governments priority is to get Brexit done'?
  • TheuniondivvieTheuniondivvie Posts: 39,753
    edited December 2019
  • I probably spunk best part of £100 on purchasing coffee each month.

    It must be 80%+ gross profit to the coffee chains on that.

    I had no idea filter coffee was so wildly available for a quid. Now I know, I’ll definitely try that.

    It’s the caffeine I’m after, not a string of anglicised continental adjectives.
  • Nigelb said:

    Cookie said:

    Is horrid an American word? Sounds pretty British to me. I'm not one for knowingly using American words or pronunciations when there's nothing wrong with the British version. I even use 'schedule' with a soft 'sh', which has all but died out amongst my generation.

    No, horrid is a twee word. Very Enid Blyton. Horrid is twee, Movie American and dessert is pretentious (and has the jarring emphasis on the second syllable). My objections to the three words are various.
    I don't object to American words per se. But why use movie when you could use film?
    I agree on the last, 'movie' is a horrid word. :wink:
    Film is now pretty well obsolete, so movie - which was coined by the nation which gave us the form - will have to do.
    So why does my Apple TV give me a choice of “Top Films”?
  • BigRichBigRich Posts: 3,489
    spudgfsh said:

    (a little late I know) but am I the only one who was hoping that Boris would get the Queen to say 'My governments priority is to get Brexit done'?

    LOL That would have been good
  • SandpitSandpit Posts: 49,614

    Sandpit said:

    Sandpit said:

    The problem was that all the 'New Centrist Party' proposals in recent years were bourne primarily out of the desire of metropolitan liberals taking an extreme position of trying to overturn the 2016 EU referendum, rather than a genuinely centrist position. The 'centre ground' in London and on Twitter, is definitely not the centre ground in the country as a whole.

    Many of us have said that government needs good opposition though, and if Labour go with another Corbynite and the LDs can't drop their devotion to the EU, there's definitely a gap in the middle for a party that's fiscally sound and libertarian.
    Whilst we all need to move on and accept Brexit is happening, we dont need to accept remain is or was an extremist position or solely the domain of metropolitan liberals. Pretty much half the country want to remain and half the country want to leave. Remain isnt the centre ground on Brexit, but that is because there no longer is a centre ground on Brexit if there ever was.
    Pretty close to half voted to remain, indeed, but it's a very select group of Metropolitans that have spent the last three years attempting to overturn the result by any means necessary.
    By definition the people withe the power to influence policy at that level are a select group, and most live in London because thats where parliament is.

    Your interpretation of events is based on your leave perceptions and a recency bias, for most of the 3 year period most of the "remain" politicians were trying to get a soft Brexit. It is only in the last year and mainly the last 9 months when it switched to 2nd ref and revoke.
    No, those who have spent the time trying to overturn the referendum are a very vocal but unrepresentaive group of Londoners. The vast majority of Remain voters around the country accept the result of the referendum and want to talk instead about other issues.
  • QuincelQuincel Posts: 3,949

    I probably spunk best part of £100 on purchasing coffee each month.

    It must be 80%+ gross profit to the coffee chains on that.

    I had no idea filter coffee was so wildly available for a quid. Now I know, I’ll definitely try that.

    It’s the caffeine I’m after, not a string of anglicised continental adjectives.

    People can spend their money on basically whatever they want, but I will confess that this sort of thing always shocks me. Likewise £1,000 mobile phones. As someone who spends nothing on snack food/drink out and has a £150 mobile on a SIM-only plan (£6/month) it's mad that there are people sat next to me at the office living seemingly similar lives to mine but with literally thousands of pounds each year being spent on things I can't appreciate any value in.
  • A true one nation government Boris Johnson leads.

    Priti Pratel is really showing off her liberal attitudes.
  • Luckyguy1983Luckyguy1983 Posts: 25,047
    Nigelb said:

    Cookie said:

    Is horrid an American word? Sounds pretty British to me. I'm not one for knowingly using American words or pronunciations when there's nothing wrong with the British version. I even use 'schedule' with a soft 'sh', which has all but died out amongst my generation.

    No, horrid is a twee word. Very Enid Blyton. Horrid is twee, Movie American and dessert is pretentious (and has the jarring emphasis on the second syllable). My objections to the three words are various.
    I don't object to American words per se. But why use movie when you could use film?
    I agree on the last, 'movie' is a horrid word. :wink:
    Film is now pretty well obsolete, so movie - which was coined by the nation which gave us the form - will have to do.
    If film is obsolete, surely a word that refers to the novelty of moving pictures is positively archaic.
  • Sandpit said:

    Sandpit said:

    Sandpit said:

    The problem was that all the 'New Centrist Party' proposals in recent years were bourne primarily out of the desire of metropolitan liberals taking an extreme position of trying to overturn the 2016 EU referendum, rather than a genuinely centrist position. The 'centre ground' in London and on Twitter, is definitely not the centre ground in the country as a whole.

    Many of us have said that government needs good opposition though, and if Labour go with another Corbynite and the LDs can't drop their devotion to the EU, there's definitely a gap in the middle for a party that's fiscally sound and libertarian.
    Whilst we all need to move on and accept Brexit is happening, we dont need to accept remain is or was an extremist position or solely the domain of metropolitan liberals. Pretty much half the country want to remain and half the country want to leave. Remain isnt the centre ground on Brexit, but that is because there no longer is a centre ground on Brexit if there ever was.
    Pretty close to half voted to remain, indeed, but it's a very select group of Metropolitans that have spent the last three years attempting to overturn the result by any means necessary.
    By definition the people withe the power to influence policy at that level are a select group, and most live in London because thats where parliament is.

    Your interpretation of events is based on your leave perceptions and a recency bias, for most of the 3 year period most of the "remain" politicians were trying to get a soft Brexit. It is only in the last year and mainly the last 9 months when it switched to 2nd ref and revoke.
    No, those who have spent the time trying to overturn the referendum are a very vocal but unrepresentaive group of Londoners. The vast majority of Remain voters around the country accept the result of the referendum and want to talk instead about other issues.
    Of course we accept the result of the referendum, the debate was about how that should be implemented. Absolute nonsense to suggest the vast majority of remainers wanted no input into how Brexit would be delivered.
  • Luckyguy1983Luckyguy1983 Posts: 25,047
    Remind us how many of those refugee children Nicola put up again?
  • This really is pathetic and shameful.
  • Quincel said:

    I probably spunk best part of £100 on purchasing coffee each month.

    It must be 80%+ gross profit to the coffee chains on that.

    I had no idea filter coffee was so wildly available for a quid. Now I know, I’ll definitely try that.

    It’s the caffeine I’m after, not a string of anglicised continental adjectives.

    People can spend their money on basically whatever they want, but I will confess that this sort of thing always shocks me. Likewise £1,000 mobile phones. As someone who spends nothing on snack food/drink out and has a £150 mobile on a SIM-only plan (£6/month) it's mad that there are people sat next to me at the office living seemingly similar lives to mine but with literally thousands of pounds each year being spent on things I can't appreciate any value in.
    Wow, now there’s a virtue signal if ever I saw one!
  • Given 48% remain and 52% leave, centrist should at least contain some concessions to remaining,
  • BarnesianBarnesian Posts: 7,979
    As I predicted, Zac carries on in his job.
    https://www.bbc.co.uk/news/uk-politics-50855291
  • Quincel said:

    I probably spunk best part of £100 on purchasing coffee each month.

    It must be 80%+ gross profit to the coffee chains on that.

    I had no idea filter coffee was so wildly available for a quid. Now I know, I’ll definitely try that.

    It’s the caffeine I’m after, not a string of anglicised continental adjectives.

    People can spend their money on basically whatever they want, but I will confess that this sort of thing always shocks me. Likewise £1,000 mobile phones. As someone who spends nothing on snack food/drink out and has a £150 mobile on a SIM-only plan (£6/month) it's mad that there are people sat next to me at the office living seemingly similar lives to mine but with literally thousands of pounds each year being spent on things I can't appreciate any value in.
    Most of the coffee I buy in coffee shops is so that I can sit in there for an hour or so with friends rather than because of the quality of the coffee.
This discussion has been closed.