From what has appeared in the press this evening, it appears that PC Rowland may be called as a witness, and is prepared to give evidence in the Mitchell libel action. The judge will likely be obliged therefore to come to an assessment of the relative credibility of Mr Mitchell and Constable Rowland's accounts. It should be noted that Mitchell has a slight advantage. Once it is established that a statement made by a defendant is prima facie defamatory, which is not in dispute in this case, it is for the defendant publisher to establish a defence.
Interesting, although despite my earlier comments regarding PC Rowland's credibility, in the absence of any other witnesses, a slight advantage would presumably not be enough to establish firmly enough which one was telling the truth to make any kind of definitive judgement.
Interesting, although despite my earlier comments regarding PC Rowland's credibility, in the absence of any other witnesses, a slight advantage would presumably not be enough to establish firmly enough which one was telling the truth to make any kind of definitive judgement.
The standard of proof in civil actions is on the balance of probabilities. It is difficult to see how a judge can determine the libel action without making a judgment about Mitchell and Rowland's credibility, unless the publisher establishes a defence in law.
is it (just) a question of picking the most successful sportsperson of the year or do they actually have to have some kind of personality? Or is it a sympathy, time-serving kind of thing?
I've never quite understood.
It's for the public to decide, so the winners can be chosen on all sorts of quixotic grounds. Performance this year is a big part of it but a lifetime achievement aspect also seems to play a strong part (both ways - those who the public think may have another chance in another year are likely to do less well as compared to someone else who's accomplished to a similar level but towards the end of their career).
Buggins turn also comes into it. Even without Mo and Murray, Froome would stand far less chance than Wiggins last year for accomplishing the same feat: it's been done once, now it's someone else's turn (and coming after Cavendish the year before, that really increases that aspect). That said, personality did help Wiggins and works against Froome too.
I'll probably do a SPOTY thread the weekend it's on.
Nothing has changed with the publication of the Scottish nationalists' white paper. Alex Salmond still bases his argument to break up the United Kingdom on mere assertions and uncosted promises. He has ducked the difficult questions on currency, pensions and our membership of the European Union.
How long can any Thai PM last? Whatever societal schisms were shown with the elder Shinawatra being ousted do not seem to have healed much, and from the casual outsiders view of the place (which is likely not that representative, unfortunately for them), it seems like each side takes it in turns to fill the streets with their supporters every few years.
The big mystery to me is why someone as smart as Harry Phibbs would enter into this bet with Mike Smithson, thereby limiting his winnings to £200 at evens, when for the same stake he could have obtained odds of 6/4 with BetVictor, thereby standing to increase his winnings to £300 ..... very strange.
Because of the bragging rights of winning against Mike? (And of course the impossibility of getting on a bet with Victor..)
They closed you down too eh?
Can't say I'm surprised; they don't like smart punters.
The big mystery to me is why someone as smart as Harry Phibbs would enter into this bet with Mike Smithson, thereby limiting his winnings to £200 at evens, when for the same stake he could have obtained odds of 6/4 with BetVictor, thereby standing to increase his winnings to £300 ..... very strange.
Because of the bragging rights of winning against Mike? (And of course the impossibility of getting on a bet with Victor..)
They closed you down too eh?
Can't say I'm surprised; they don't like smart punters.
Whereas by definition Harry Phibbs isn't a smart punter. Whatever the motivation for that bet, it isn't to make money. He's accepted evens on the Conservatives getting most seats when there are 15 betting companies out there offering better odds. (PP is best at 6/4 currently.)
is it (just) a question of picking the most successful sportsperson of the year or do they actually have to have some kind of personality? Or is it a sympathy, time-serving kind of thing?
I've never quite understood.
It's for the public to decide, so the winners can be chosen on all sorts of quixotic grounds. Performance this year is a big part of it but a lifetime achievement aspect also seems to play a strong part (both ways - those who the public think may have another chance in another year are likely to do less well as compared to someone else who's accomplished to a similar level but towards the end of their career).
Buggins turn also comes into it. Even without Mo and Murray, Froome would stand far less chance than Wiggins last year for accomplishing the same feat: it's been done once, now it's someone else's turn (and coming after Cavendish the year before, that really increases that aspect). That said, personality did help Wiggins and works against Froome too.
I'll probably do a SPOTY thread the weekend it's on.
'What's YOUR country famous for? Map reveals that UK leads the world in fascist movements'
Disappointing, although they don't seem to have been very successful at least.
Having lots of fascist movements is no great worry: they get in each others' way and just blow off their energies in noise. I'd be far more worried if there was only one such movement.
The only thing that splits faster than the Trots is the neo-fascist Right.
Not as many of them stand candidates for parliament though for some reason - there seem to be loads of variously communist groups that stand with similar names come GE time, not as many on the far right, which might explain why the ones on the right are better known I guess.
All this talk of the UK being the home of the fascist movement, makes me want to join the EDL, for a mixture to find out what I'm missing and for the comedy value of someone like me joining the EDL.
When I was in America, I wanted to join the Ku Klux Klan, mostly to find out what soap powder they use, to get their clothes so brilliantly white.
Is the `slavery` case in London really what`s it supposed to be?
These women talked to neighbours and all 3 went to the launderette on their own.
Seems to me someone was bigging things up.
I don't know, but "These women talked to neighbours and all 3 went to the launderette on their own" is not conclusive evidence, by any means. Coercion isn't just about physical entrapment or force.
All this talk of the UK being the home of the fascist movement, makes me want to join the EDL, for a mixture to find out what I'm missing and for the comedy value of someone like me joining the EDL.
When I was in America, I wanted to join the Ku Klux Klan, mostly to find out what soap powder they use, to get their clothes so brilliantly white.
There's little point wearing a white hood, TSE, when everyone will recognise you from your shoes.
All this talk of the UK being the home of the fascist movement, makes me want to join the EDL, for a mixture to find out what I'm missing and for the comedy value of someone like me joining the EDL.
When I was in America, I wanted to join the Ku Klux Klan, mostly to find out what soap powder they use, to get their clothes so brilliantly white.
There's little point wearing a white hood, TSE, when everyone will recognise you from your shoes.
All this talk of the UK being the home of the fascist movement, makes me want to join the EDL, for a mixture to find out what I'm missing and for the comedy value of someone like me joining the EDL.
When I was in America, I wanted to join the Ku Klux Klan, mostly to find out what soap powder they use, to get their clothes so brilliantly white.
There's little point wearing a white hood, TSE, when everyone will recognise you from your shoes.
The big mystery to me is why someone as smart as Harry Phibbs would enter into this bet with Mike Smithson, thereby limiting his winnings to £200 at evens, when for the same stake he could have obtained odds of 6/4 with BetVictor, thereby standing to increase his winnings to £300 ..... very strange.
Because of the bragging rights of winning against Mike? (And of course the impossibility of getting on a bet with Victor..)
They closed you down too eh?
Can't say I'm surprised; they don't like smart punters.
The big mystery to me is why someone as smart as Harry Phibbs would enter into this bet with Mike Smithson, thereby limiting his winnings to £200 at evens, when for the same stake he could have obtained odds of 6/4 with BetVictor, thereby standing to increase his winnings to £300 ..... very strange.
Because of the bragging rights of winning against Mike? (And of course the impossibility of getting on a bet with Victor..)
They closed you down too eh?
Can't say I'm surprised; they don't like smart punters.
Whereas by definition Harry Phibbs isn't a smart punter. Whatever the motivation for that bet, it isn't to make money. He's accepted evens on the Conservatives getting most seats when there are 15 betting companies out there offering better odds. (PP is best at 6/4 currently.)
Sometimes - especially for celebrities - things may matter more than getting the best odds. Publicity from Mike and potentially bragging rights if he wins are potentially worth much, much more than the better odds.
The Ian Watkins story is not to be discussed on the site
Ludicrous.
Sorry.
But we are all adults. One of the advantages of pb is that, on here, consenting, educated adults (of a generally higher intelligence) can have sane debates about incendiary political and moral subjects where other forums (like the Guardian or the Mail) swiftly descend into hideous abuse and trolling.
No one wishes to dwell on the horrific crimes this creep committed. But the case DOES raise interesting questions of morality, ethics and jurisprudence, and simply ruling them offside because you find them personally distasteful is really rather feeble, and, I fear, another reason to go looking elsewhere for that perfect web forum.
As you wish.
I'm not going to do this, but if somebody were to anonymously set up a "Too hot for pb" forum somewhere in a non-UK jurisdiction where people could discuss things without worrying about getting Mike into trouble I wouldn't mind chipping in a few mili-bitcoins to help keep it running.
On the notion of getting the best odds or accepting a bet at evens I've made a sporting bet with one of my friends. I've bet that Liverpool will finish ahead of United at the end of the League, £5 at evens. I suspect had I looked for odds on that online I could have got better than evens for that, but the banter that has with my friend until May next year and the bragging rights to the winner makes it much more fun to go with him.
Same I suspect with Phibbs. May not be logically ideal, but is more fun to have it out there that he's got a bet on with Our Genial Host rather than going to the bookies and placing a bet in secret.
Is the `slavery` case in London really what`s it supposed to be?
These women talked to neighbours and all 3 went to the launderette on their own.
Seems to me someone was bigging things up.
I don't know, but "These women talked to neighbours and all 3 went to the launderette on their own" is not conclusive evidence, by any means. Coercion isn't just about physical entrapment or force.
Is the `slavery` case in London really what`s it supposed to be?
These women talked to neighbours and all 3 went to the launderette on their own.
Seems to me someone was bigging things up.
It sounds like a case of brainwashing, which can of course be almost as powerful as physical confinement.
It certainly wasn`t physical confinement.But whether there was abuse,coercion or a groupthink of `us versus the world` which later turned sour isn`t clear.The television footage from 1997 of the women ranting at reporters certainly suggests the probability that the group felt persecuted.
"Nigella Lawson is a habitual cocaine user who used her ex-husband Charles Saatchi’s money to make sure aides kept her “guilty secret” from him, a court has heard.
Miss Lawson, 53, used cocaine, cannabis and prescription pills “daily” for more than a decade but kept it secret from Mr Saatchi, 70, because she knew he would “not have condoned” her behaviour, it is alleged.
She had a verbal understanding with two Italian “kitchen confidantes” that they could use Mr Saatchi’s company credit card for their personal use in return for an “understanding” that they would keep quiet about her drug use, it is claimed."
KLE4 The National Front has split from the BNP and now there is UKIP. It is not only the left and the likes of RESPECT which have split
I was thinking more of the Communist, TUSC, Socialist Labour, Socialist Alternative, Workers Revolutionary, Democratic Labour sorts than your genuine moderately sized parties which have split like the NF and ENP, though in fairness there were fewer of the far left minor parties in 2010 than I had recalled according to the Wiki.
Bit horrifying to see Christine Ohuruogu in the top ten. She was thrice guilty of dodging drugs tests and consequently banned.
She's arguably the most successful British female athlete of all time (2 world championships, Olympics gold and silver) and there is no suggestion by anyone that she ever cheated. More than deserves her place in the top 10.
For a long time, the SNP was Alex Salmond. Like McFarage, he was the face of the movement and kept it alive in its darkest days. It was thanks to him that the SNP went from being just a shouty pressure group to forming Scotland’s executive. But that sparkle has now gone.
The SNP could have written the greatest declaration of independence accompanied by a fully caveated and costed roadmap. Obviously they did not, yet even if they had, it would still have been undermined by the seemingly amateur operation the First Minister has surrounded himself with. At the same time as declaring that Scotland would be a grown-up, sensible country, free from the constraints of London rule, his deputy briefed out that if Westminster will not let Scotland keep the pound then they would default on their debts. Very grown up, very sensible, very responsible.
An independent Scotland would allow submarines and warships armed with nuclear weapons from the US, Britain and other Nato countries to dock in its ports as part of what was dubbed as a "don't ask, don't tell" policy to guarantee membership of the North Atlantic alliance.
In a sign of the Scottish National party's determination to reassure wavering voters – in the face of a commanding lead for the pro-UK camp – the Scottish government outlined a series of concessions by offering to share its military bases with the UK and even softening its stance on the timetable for removing Britain's Trident nuclear deterrent.
The fresh approach suggests that British nuclear submarines will be allowed to join other Nato nuclear vessels operating in Scottish waters.
‘While they are both strong advocates for nuclear disarmament, both Norway and Denmark allow NATO vessels to visit their ports without confirming or denying whether they carry nuclear weapons. “We intend that Scotland will adopt a similar approach as Denmark and Norway in this respect.
This is Scotland adopting a ‘don’t ask, don’t tell’ approach to nuclear weapons – hardly the same thing as being strongly anti-nuclear. It is quite an extraordinary move and it opens the possibility of an independent Scotland ejecting the UK’s Trident submarines but then letting them back in to refuelling, reloading or repairs — and using Faslane to do it.
All this talk of the UK being the home of the fascist movement, makes me want to join the EDL, for a mixture to find out what I'm missing and for the comedy value of someone like me joining the EDL.
When I was in America, I wanted to join the Ku Klux Klan, mostly to find out what soap powder they use, to get their clothes so brilliantly white.
There's little point wearing a white hood, TSE, when everyone will recognise you from your shoes.
I'm never living down those shoes am I?
Jeez, can't we have a pic of these trainers/shoes/whatever? They can't be as bad as I'm imagining*. Plus a pic of Neil's favourite cocktail.
*they can't be as bad as my x18 trainers with spikey soles.
All this talk of the UK being the home of the fascist movement, makes me want to join the EDL, for a mixture to find out what I'm missing and for the comedy value of someone like me joining the EDL.
When I was in America, I wanted to join the Ku Klux Klan, mostly to find out what soap powder they use, to get their clothes so brilliantly white.
There's little point wearing a white hood, TSE, when everyone will recognise you from your shoes.
I'm never living down those shoes am I?
Jeez, can't we have a pic of these trainers/shoes/whatever? They can't be as bad as I'm imagining*. Plus a pic of Neil's favourite cocktail.
*they can't be as bad as my x18 trainers with spikey soles.
All this talk of the UK being the home of the fascist movement, makes me want to join the EDL, for a mixture to find out what I'm missing and for the comedy value of someone like me joining the EDL.
When I was in America, I wanted to join the Ku Klux Klan, mostly to find out what soap powder they use, to get their clothes so brilliantly white.
There's little point wearing a white hood, TSE, when everyone will recognise you from your shoes.
I'm never living down those shoes am I?
Jeez, can't we have a pic of these trainers/shoes/whatever? They can't be as bad as I'm imagining*. Plus a pic of Neil's favourite cocktail.
*they can't be as bad as my x18 trainers with spikey soles.
Did anything special happen when you clicked your heals together and shouted "there's no place like home, there's no place like home, there's no place like home"?
‘While they are both strong advocates for nuclear disarmament, both Norway and Denmark allow NATO vessels to visit their ports without confirming or denying whether they carry nuclear weapons. “We intend that Scotland will adopt a similar approach as Denmark and Norway in this respect.
This is Scotland adopting a ‘don’t ask, don’t tell’ approach to nuclear weapons – hardly the same thing as being strongly anti-nuclear. It is quite an extraordinary move and it opens the possibility of an independent Scotland ejecting the UK’s Trident submarines but then letting them back in to refuelling, reloading or repairs — and using Faslane to do it.
All this talk of the UK being the home of the fascist movement, makes me want to join the EDL, for a mixture to find out what I'm missing and for the comedy value of someone like me joining the EDL.
When I was in America, I wanted to join the Ku Klux Klan, mostly to find out what soap powder they use, to get their clothes so brilliantly white.
There's little point wearing a white hood, TSE, when everyone will recognise you from your shoes.
I'm never living down those shoes am I?
Jeez, can't we have a pic of these trainers/shoes/whatever? They can't be as bad as I'm imagining*. Plus a pic of Neil's favourite cocktail.
*they can't be as bad as my x18 trainers with spikey soles.
Did anything special happen when you clicked your heals together and shouted "there's no place like home, there's no place like home, there's no place like home"?
I did that in the village, nothing happened, but one of my gay friends said "If there was any doubt, you're definitely a friend of Dorothy"
All this talk of the UK being the home of the fascist movement, makes me want to join the EDL, for a mixture to find out what I'm missing and for the comedy value of someone like me joining the EDL.
When I was in America, I wanted to join the Ku Klux Klan, mostly to find out what soap powder they use, to get their clothes so brilliantly white.
There's little point wearing a white hood, TSE, when everyone will recognise you from your shoes.
I'm never living down those shoes am I?
Jeez, can't we have a pic of these trainers/shoes/whatever? They can't be as bad as I'm imagining*. Plus a pic of Neil's favourite cocktail.
*they can't be as bad as my x18 trainers with spikey soles.
‘While they are both strong advocates for nuclear disarmament, both Norway and Denmark allow NATO vessels to visit their ports without confirming or denying whether they carry nuclear weapons. “We intend that Scotland will adopt a similar approach as Denmark and Norway in this respect.
This is Scotland adopting a ‘don’t ask, don’t tell’ approach to nuclear weapons – hardly the same thing as being strongly anti-nuclear. It is quite an extraordinary move and it opens the possibility of an independent Scotland ejecting the UK’s Trident submarines but then letting them back in to refuelling, reloading or repairs — and using Faslane to do it.
American Declaration of Independence. One page of beautiful English prose. SNP Blue? White? Paper. 640 pages of garbage.
Do you think they would have been better off going with:
"As long as but a hundred of us remain alive, never will we on any conditions be brought under English rule. It is in truth not for glory, nor riches, nor honours, that we are fighting, but for freedom - for that alone, which no honest man gives up but with life itself".
All this talk of the UK being the home of the fascist movement, makes me want to join the EDL, for a mixture to find out what I'm missing and for the comedy value of someone like me joining the EDL.
When I was in America, I wanted to join the Ku Klux Klan, mostly to find out what soap powder they use, to get their clothes so brilliantly white.
There's little point wearing a white hood, TSE, when everyone will recognise you from your shoes.
I'm never living down those shoes am I?
Jeez, can't we have a pic of these trainers/shoes/whatever? They can't be as bad as I'm imagining*. Plus a pic of Neil's favourite cocktail.
*they can't be as bad as my x18 trainers with spikey soles.
In my defence, I have large feet, and find it difficult to find the right sized footwear, and they were the second most comfortable pair of footwear that I've ever owned.
In my defence, I have large feet, and find it difficult to find the right sized footwear, and they were the second most comfortable pair of footwear that I've ever owned.
Is the `slavery` case in London really what`s it supposed to be?
These women talked to neighbours and all 3 went to the launderette on their own.
Seems to me someone was bigging things up.
I can buy the "brainwashing" idea, especially for the younger woman who apparently had never experienced anything else. It's easy to understimate how intimidating it is to operate independently if you've been trained not to - it must feel a bit like trying to make a complaint to the police in a country where one doesn't speak the language.
I had a seminar group for Chinese political analysts today who had caught on the news that there were some people in London who had absorbed Maoist doctrine and were awaiting liberation and asked incredulously what that was about. Reassuringly, the group thought they were obviously bonkers, even before I explained about the alleged "slavery" aspect.
Is the `slavery` case in London really what`s it supposed to be?
These women talked to neighbours and all 3 went to the launderette on their own.
Seems to me someone was bigging things up.
I can buy the "brainwashing" idea, especially for the younger woman who apparently had never experienced anything else. It's easy to understimate how intimidating it is to operate independently if you've been trained not to - it must feel a bit like trying to make a complaint to the police in a country where one doesn't speak the language.
I had a seminar group for Chinese political analysts today who had caught on the news that there were some people in London who had absorbed Maoist doctrine and were awaiting liberation and asked incredulously what that was about. Reassuringly, the group thought they were obviously bonkers, even before I explained about the alleged "slavery" aspect.
When you were a youthful communist in the middle of the last century , were you a Maoist or a Stalinist ?
The potential for Ukip to reshape British politics is revealed in a rare constituency poll showing the Conservatives are in third place behind the party in Thanet South, where Tory MP Laura Sandys at the next election.
The poll commissioned by a Ukip donor and conducted by the polling company Survation, shows Labour in first place with 35% (up nearly five percentage points on the general election), Ukip second on 30% (up 24 points), the Tories third on 28% (down 20 points) and the Liberal Democrats fourth on 5% (down 10 points).
[W]e've had five years of Obama, which I would argue in many cases, he has been corporatist," he explained on MSNBC on Saturday. "The health care bill that was written by the insurance companies and the pharmaceutical companies and the medical device companies.
TSE Were such a poll to be repeated on a national level then Farage would achieve his aim of making UKIP the UK version of Canada's Reform Party while the Tories would share the fate of their Canadian counterparts and Cameron would go the way of Kim Campbell
Comments
http://tinyurl.com/mv6575o
'What's YOUR country famous for? Map reveals that UK leads the world in fascist movements'
I'm unclear if the Mail thinks that's a good thing or not.
http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Yingluck_Shinawatra
www.youtube.com/watch?v=jgBxWUhzrwM
https://s3-eu-west-1.amazonaws.com/ref-whitepaper/scotland+future+white+paper+november+2013.pdf
Buggins turn also comes into it. Even without Mo and Murray, Froome would stand far less chance than Wiggins last year for accomplishing the same feat: it's been done once, now it's someone else's turn (and coming after Cavendish the year before, that really increases that aspect). That said, personality did help Wiggins and works against Froome too.
I'll probably do a SPOTY thread the weekend it's on.
It stuck in my mind because it's true.
Celtic = Salmond
These women talked to neighbours and all 3 went to the launderette on their own.
Seems to me someone was bigging things up.
When I was in America, I wanted to join the Ku Klux Klan, mostly to find out what soap powder they use, to get their clothes so brilliantly white.
Same I suspect with Phibbs. May not be logically ideal, but is more fun to have it out there that he's got a bet on with Our Genial Host rather than going to the bookies and placing a bet in secret.
Dave = Marseille
"Nigella Lawson is a habitual cocaine user who used her ex-husband Charles Saatchi’s money to make sure aides kept her “guilty secret” from him, a court has heard.
Miss Lawson, 53, used cocaine, cannabis and prescription pills “daily” for more than a decade but kept it secret from Mr Saatchi, 70, because she knew he would “not have condoned” her behaviour, it is alleged.
She had a verbal understanding with two Italian “kitchen confidantes” that they could use Mr Saatchi’s company credit card for their personal use in return for an “understanding” that they would keep quiet about her drug use, it is claimed."
http://www.telegraph.co.uk/news/uknews/law-and-order/10475835/Nigella-Lawson-allegedly-took-drugs-every-day-for-a-decade-court-told.html
outthrough!!!!!!!!!!!Ed = Adrian Chiles
Nice to see you on, Ave It.
http://www.ft.com/intl/cms/s/0/2cb1bfec-56a3-11e3-ab12-00144feabdc0.html?ftcamp=published_links/rss/brussels/feed//product&siteedition=intl#axzz2ln4WkT5k
Glad that boring F1 has finished
Ed Miliband = Gianluca Vialli
Chelsea were appalling would have been a travesty if they' d got a draw
http://www.espn.co.uk/ferrari/motorsport/story/137743.html
*raises an eyebrow*
Chelsea out in last 16!
David Cameron = David Connolly
Tories = All Blacks.
Nailed on as always.
I dont need to take abuse from you, I have plenty of other people to abuse me!
*they can't be as bad as my x18 trainers with spikey soles.
For PBers. those shoes.
pic.twitter.com/Ts3mbhSawm
Tick tock tick tock
http://www.footlocker.eu/gb/en/Shoes/Nike-Air-Max-2013-42.aspx/4207536104
American Declaration of Independence. One page of beautiful English prose.
SNP Blue? White? Paper. 640 pages of garbage.
SNP Blue? White? Paper. 640 pages of garbage.
Do you think they would have been better off going with:
"As long as but a hundred of us remain alive, never will we on any conditions be brought under English rule. It is in truth not for glory, nor riches, nor honours, that we are fighting, but for freedom - for that alone, which no honest man gives up but with life itself".
"Will the number of Green MPs in 2015, outnumber of goals Spurs will score this season?"
That picture, doesn't do justice to the brightness of those shoes
In my defence, I have large feet, and find it difficult to find the right sized footwear, and they were the second most comfortable pair of footwear that I've ever owned.
*considers*
Nope, that's no defence.
I had a seminar group for Chinese political analysts today who had caught on the news that there were some people in London who had absorbed Maoist doctrine and were awaiting liberation and asked incredulously what that was about. Reassuringly, the group thought they were obviously bonkers, even before I explained about the alleged "slavery" aspect.
André Villas-Boas on brink of losing Tottenham Hotspur job
• Coach's suitability questioned after Manchester City defeat
• Spurs' hierarchy losing patience after £110.5m summer spend
http://www.theguardian.com/football/2013/nov/26/andre-villas-boas-tottenham-manager?CMP=twt_gu
Ukip threat to Tories revealed by poll of voters in key marginal seat
Farage's party beats Conservatives into third place in survey of constituency where Tory MP is quitting
http://www.theguardian.com/politics/2013/nov/26/ukip-poll-boost-thanet
The poll commissioned by a Ukip donor and conducted by the polling company Survation, shows Labour in first place with 35% (up nearly five percentage points on the general election), Ukip second on 30% (up 24 points), the Tories third on 28% (down 20 points) and the Liberal Democrats fourth on 5% (down 10 points).
http://washingtonexaminer.com/former-democratic-governor-obama-has-been-a-corporatist-for-five-years/article/2539766?custom_click=rss
TSE Were such a poll to be repeated on a national level then Farage would achieve his aim of making UKIP the UK version of Canada's Reform Party while the Tories would share the fate of their Canadian counterparts and Cameron would go the way of Kim Campbell