Ashworth seems okay to me - but he seems to have flip flopped around a bit. I'm not really sure where he stands on anything.
Cooper to have another bash? After losing in 2015 - she was utterly dreadful.
Burnham again?
Burnham is best off doing Mayoral and local NW stuff, he was too soft when he stood last time plus I donated a fiver to his campaign two days before he pulled out the running! Thornbury is seen as obnoxious by most and Long-Bailey might annoy anyone outside Sheffield.
Along with nationalising the top 100 FTSE companies, a defeated Labour under its new leader Laura Pidcock and Shadow Chancellor Owen Jones (after winning an inner London by election) clearly deciding the losing 2019 manifesto was not leftwing enough
2024 will be 14 years in to a Tory government.
It will be cruel on the Labour left if just as they are in a strong position to win a GE on their own terms they are usurped by the careerist centrists again.
However, if there is another hard-left leader after Corbyn then all bets are off and assets will be being moved offshore 6 months before the election.
Or Labour will be put out of its misery and overtaken by a Chuka Umunna led LDs if after 2 defeats on it Labour tries a third time with a Corbynite manifesto
Some of the poorest people in U.K. are flocking to Boris because they believe his hard brexit will transform their lives and their forgotten communities. Anyone here sure it will? Also Corbyn is reviled and easily rebutted because of past associations and campaigns “don’t lecture me on Ireland mister corbyn.” A labour leadership without such backstory, and Boris trying to deliver for his coalition of voters and not let them down. It’s easy to imagine how a similar Labour manifesto next time will get elected.
One more heave!
It won’t need a heave. Why is Boris winning a majority without being trusted or even that well liked? Answer is Corbyn not seen as a PM, and Brexit is seen by the poor as a hope for positive change. Wow. How are Tories going to meet and satisfy expectations? The unpopularity numbers Boris and his government can achieve might set new records. The next Labour leader only needs to come across as vaguely likeable and vaguely competent for maybe a huge majority, regardless what manifesto. This little period of volatility, culminating in vote leave in government delivering hard brexit, could set up a sea change in Britain for the mid to long term. It could be the Tories finding themselves in third place.
I think if you're expecting Starmer to be a Blairite you're going to be disappointed. He'll be less radical than say Rayner - but it's not going to be about Blair vs Corbyn this time around. The vote will be far more split around I think.
Said before I think there'll be a North vs London/SE element to it as well.
I'd be minded to back a candidate who was from and represented somewhere North of Watford Gap
Rayner then.
It used to be a big deal to have a leader without any ministerial experience,to combine that with no educational qualifications would be off the Richter scale..
Corbyn had no ministerial experience, no degree, and a couple of pisspoor A Levels.
Normally that happens when too much weed is smoked at college. Poor Jezza, bet he was a master at Pro evolution soccer
Along with nationalising the top 100 FTSE companies, a defeated Labour under its new leader Laura Pidcock and Shadow Chancellor Owen Jones (after winning an inner London by election) clearly deciding the losing 2019 manifesto was not leftwing enough
2024 will be 14 years in to a Tory government.
It will be cruel on the Labour left if just as they are in a strong position to win a GE on their own terms they are usurped by the careerist centrists again.
However, if there is another hard-left leader after Corbyn then all bets are off and assets will be being moved offshore 6 months before the election.
Or Labour will be put out of its misery and overtaken by a Chuka Umunna led LDs if after 2 defeats on it Labour tries a third time with a Corbynite manifesto
Some of the poorest people in U.K. are flocking to Boris because they believe his hard brexit will transform their lives and their forgotten communities. Anyone here sure it will? Also Corbyn is reviled and easily rebutted because of past associations and campaigns “don’t lecture me on Ireland mister corbyn.” A labour leadership without such backstory, and Boris trying to deliver for his coalition of voters and not let them down. It’s easy to imagine how a similar Labour manifesto next time will get elected.
One more heave!
It won’t need a heave. Why is Boris winning a majority without being trusted or even that well liked? Answer is Corbyn not seen as a PM, and Brexit is seen by the poor as a hope for positive change. Wow. How are Tories going to meet and satisfy expectations? The unpopularity numbers Boris and his government can achieve might set new records. The next Labour leader only needs to come across as vaguely likeable and vaguely competent for maybe a huge majority, regardless what manifesto. This little period of volatility, culminating in vote leave in government delivering hard brexit, could set up a sea change in Britain for the mid to long term. It could be the Tories finding themselves in third place.
The Tories will never be in third place unless overtaken on the right, they avoided that when Boris won back Brexit Party voters.
Labour on the other hand is at serious risk of falling to third place if it loses again, tells the electorate they were wrong and picks another Corbynite like Laura Pidcock and the LDs get a charismatic centre left leader like Chuka Umunna
Along with nationalising the top 100 FTSE companies, a defeated Labour under its new leader Laura Pidcock and Shadow Chancellor Owen Jones (after winning an inner London by election) clearly deciding the losing 2019 manifesto was not leftwing enough
2024 will be 14 years in to a Tory government.
It will be cruel on the Labour left if just as they are in a strong position to win a GE on their own terms they are usurped by the careerist centrists again.
However, if there is another hard-left leader after Corbyn then all bets are off and assets will be being moved offshore 6 months before the election.
Or Labour will be put out of its misery and overtaken by a Chuka Umunna led LDs if after 2 defeats on it Labour tries a third time with a Corbynite manifesto
Some of the poorest people in U.K. are flocking to Boris because they believe his hard brexit will transform their lives and their forgotten communities. Anyone here sure it will? Also Corbyn is reviled and easily rebutted because of past associations and campaigns “don’t lecture me on Ireland mister corbyn.” A labour leadership without such backstory, and Boris trying to deliver for his coalition of voters and not let them down. It’s easy to imagine how a similar Labour manifesto next time will get elected.
It won't, property owners in the key Tory held marginals in the South and Midlands will never vote Corbyn Labour, though they might vote for more centrist Labour or LD. If Labour refuse to learn the lesson of 4 successive likely defeats after Blair and going successively more leftwing and want to ensure 20 years of Tory rule be my guest
I read it so completely different. 4 defeats, but only in 9 years. Brexit divide temporarily supplanting traditional divide. A labour leader that could never be PM with his back story. Boris, whose knee jerk policy making is probably the most reactionary U’K has ever seen, with an impossible task to deliver for his odd new coalition expecting change for the better from brexit and his populist government. It’s setting up some sort of capitalism resetting sea change I reckon.
Along with nationalising the top 100 FTSE companies, a defeated Labour under its new leader Laura Pidcock and Shadow Chancellor Owen Jones (after winning an inner London by election) clearly deciding the losing 2019 manifesto was not leftwing enough
2024 will be 14 years in to a Tory government.
It will be cruel on the Labour left if just as they are in a strong position to win a GE on their own terms they are usurped by the careerist centrists again.
However, if there is another hard-left leader after Corbyn then all bets are off and assets will be being moved offshore 6 months before the election.
Or Labour will be put out of its misery and overtaken by a Chuka Umunna led LDs if after 2 defeats on it Labour tries a third time with a Corbynite manifesto
Some of the poorest people in U.K. are flocking to Boris because they believe his hard brexit will transform their lives and their forgotten communities. Anyone here sure it will? Also Corbyn is reviled and easily rebutted because of past associations and campaigns “don’t lecture me on Ireland mister corbyn.” A labour leadership without such backstory, and Boris trying to deliver for his coalition of voters and not let them down. It’s easy to imagine how a similar Labour manifesto next time will get elected.
It won't, property owners in the key Tory held marginals in the South and Midlands will never vote Corbyn Labour, though they might vote for more centrist Labour or LD. If Labour refuse to learn the lesson of 4 successive likely defeats after Blair and going successively more leftwing and want to ensure 20 years of Tory rule be my guest
I read it so completely different. 4 defeats, but only in 9 years. Brexit divide temporarily supplanting traditional divide. A labour leader that could never be PM with his back story. Boris, whose knee jerk policy making is probably the most reactionary U’K has ever seen, with an impossible task to deliver for his odd new coalition expecting change for the better from brexit and his populist government. It’s setting up some sort of capitalism resetting sea change I reckon.
Well of course you do as you are an ideological socialist but most of the voters are not, as Thursday will confirm
If Boris is smart he'll raise taxes in a few carefully-targeted areas, such as on some of the huge international companies like Amazon and Starbucks who use clever techniques to minimise their tax bills.
Along with nationalising the top 100 FTSE companies, a defeated Labour under its new leader Laura Pidcock and Shadow Chancellor Owen Jones (after winning an inner London by election) clearly deciding the losing 2019 manifesto was not leftwing enough
2024 will be 14 years in to a Tory government.
It will be cruel on the Labour left if just as they are in a strong position to win a GE on their own terms they are usurped by the careerist centrists again.
However, if there is another hard-left leader after Corbyn then all bets are off and assets will be being moved offshore 6 months before the election.
Or Labour will be put out of its misery and overtaken by a Chuka Umunna led LDs if after 2 defeats on it Labour tries a third time with a Corbynite manifesto
Some of the poorest people in U.K. are flocking to Boris because they believe his hard brexit will transform their lives and their forgotten communities. Anyone here sure it will? Also Corbyn is reviled and easily rebutted because of past associations and campaigns “don’t lecture me on Ireland mister corbyn.” A labour leadership without such backstory, and Boris trying to deliver for his coalition of voters and not let them down. It’s easy to imagine how a similar Labour manifesto next time will get elected.
It won't, property owners in the key Tory held marginals in the South and Midlands will never vote Corbyn Labour, though they might vote for more centrist Labour or LD. If Labour refuse to learn the lesson of 4 successive likely defeats after Blair and going successively more leftwing and want to ensure 20 years of Tory rule be my guest
I read it so completely different. 4 defeats, but only in 9 years. Brexit divide temporarily supplanting traditional divide. A labour leader that could never be PM with his back story. Boris, whose knee jerk policy making is probably the most reactionary U’K has ever seen, with an impossible task to deliver for his odd new coalition expecting change for the better from brexit and his populist government. It’s setting up some sort of capitalism resetting sea change I reckon.
Well of course you do as you are an ideological socialist but most of the voters are not, as Thursday will confirm
I think if you're expecting Starmer to be a Blairite you're going to be disappointed. He'll be less radical than say Rayner - but it's not going to be about Blair vs Corbyn this time around. The vote will be far more split around I think.
Said before I think there'll be a North vs London/SE element to it as well.
I'd be minded to back a candidate who was from and represented somewhere North of Watford Gap
Rayner then.
Jon Ashworth unless the party is set on a female leader.
If Boris is smart he'll raise taxes in a few carefully-targeted areas, such as on some of the huge international companies like Amazon and Starbucks who use clever techniques to minimise their tax bills.
The White House’s threat of retaliation against countries trying to raise taxes on US tech companies has been rebuffed around the world, as Canada, Austria and Indonesia joined the UK in pledging to press ahead with new digital levies.
Boris Johnson, the British prime minister, said on Tuesday that the UK wanted to ensure US tech companies such as Google, Facebook and Amazon make a “fairer contribution”, confirming his commitment to a 2 per cent tax on revenues from search engines, social networks and online marketplaces. https://www.ft.com/content/6529014c-169a-11ea-9ee4-11f260415385
Along with nationalising the top 100 FTSE companies, a defeated Labour under its new leader Laura Pidcock and Shadow Chancellor Owen Jones (after winning an inner London by election) clearly deciding the losing 2019 manifesto was not leftwing enough
2024 will be 14 years in to a Tory government.
Or Labour will be put out of its misery and overtaken by a Chuka Umunna led LDs if after 2 defeats on it Labour tries a third time with a Corbynite manifesto
Some of the poorest people in U.K. are flocking to Boris because they believe his hard brexit will transform their lives and their forgotten communities. Anyone here sure it will? Also Corbyn is reviled and easily rebutted because of past associations and campaigns “don’t lecture me on Ireland mister corbyn.” A labour leadership without such backstory, and Boris trying to deliver for his coalition of voters and not let them down. It’s easy to imagine how a similar Labour manifesto next time will get elected.
It won't, property owners in the key Tory held marginals in the South and Midlands will never vote Corbyn Labour, though they might vote for more centrist Labour or LD. If Labour refuse to learn the lesson of 4 successive likely defeats after Blair and going successively more leftwing and want to ensure 20 years of Tory rule be my guest
I read it so completely different. 4 defeats, but only in 9 years. Brexit divide temporarily supplanting traditional divide. A labour leader that could never be PM with his back story. Boris, whose knee jerk policy making is probably the most reactionary U’K has ever seen, with an impossible task to deliver for his odd new coalition expecting change for the better from brexit and his populist government. It’s setting up some sort of capitalism resetting sea change I reckon.
Well of course you do as you are an ideological socialist but most of the voters are not, as Thursday will confirm
You would be right if it’s only the left considering a capitalism reset. I don’t think it is. Global Britain requires greater productivity, not liassez faire capitalism, in order to meet challenges of globalisation, climate crisis, automation, post industrial economy, demographic time bomb. Corbyn and the crew around him sort of masks how labour are becoming well positioned to influence politics in the decades to come.
I think if you're expecting Starmer to be a Blairite you're going to be disappointed. He'll be less radical than say Rayner - but it's not going to be about Blair vs Corbyn this time around. The vote will be far more split around I think.
Said before I think there'll be a North vs London/SE element to it as well.
I'd be minded to back a candidate who was from and represented somewhere North of Watford Gap
Rayner then.
Jon Ashworth unless the party is set on a female leader.
Is Yvette Cooper too right-wing in your opinion?
Probably for the membership. Also if it does turn out that Labour lose support in the Northern heartlands to the Tories, I don't know if she is best placed to win them back. Which is a shame as she is hard working and very bright and talented
And, lo and behold, 44% just so happens to be the SNP VI share in the latest Scotland-only poll. And the average of their constituency and regional vote shares in the 2016 Scottish Parliament elections.
Therein lies the fundamental problem with the stability and continuity of the UK. The Scottish independence movement is, at once, too strong to be defeated in devolved elections and too weak to achieve its main policy aim. Assuming a Tory win on Thursday, the fact of Brexit might shift the dial enough for the Scottish Government to be able both to secure a second referendum and to win it, but the latter especially is by no means a foregone conclusion - so, what if they lose again? Do we think that the 45% (or perhaps more) of the electorate that would back Yes in a second failed referendum are going to give up, any more than they did after the first?
Should Scottish voters continue both to elect pro-independence legislators and to reject independence at the ballot box then this situation has the potential to drag on forever. It would be as if the UK electorate had voted Remain in 2015 and then returned a strong Eurosceptic majority to Parliament in 2017. It makes life very difficult both for the potentially seceding state, which is stuck in a doom loop of constitutional introspection and bad-tempered bickering that comes to predominate over all else, and for the remainder of the union to which it belongs, which is meant both to treat it as an equal partner with a full stake in the affairs of the collective and as an unstable element, the departure of which must always be planned for (even though nobody has the faintest idea when or if this will ever happen.)
If the demand for a second referendum is made, with sufficient public support, both loudly enough and for long enough then, eventually, it will have to be accommodated. Unlike, for example, in the US or Germany, the Union is accepted not to be indissoluble and, as a logical consequence, must therefore be viewed as both voluntary and temporary. Scotland is not a captive and would, ultimately, have to be given its say. However, if the result of that is also a No vote then there could well be a third attempt made five or ten years down the line, with possibly more to come after that.
If Scotland won't vote either to go or to give its nationalist politicians the boot, then I'm afraid that this issue will continue to erupt like an active volcano at regular intervals until long after we're all dead and buried.
Comments
Thornbury is seen as obnoxious by most and Long-Bailey might annoy anyone outside Sheffield.
https://twitter.com/JournoStephen/status/1203111891104681989?s=20
This little period of volatility, culminating in vote leave in government delivering hard brexit, could set up a sea change in Britain for the mid to long term. It could be the Tories finding themselves in third place.
Labour on the other hand is at serious risk of falling to third place if it loses again, tells the electorate they were wrong and picks another Corbynite like Laura Pidcock and the LDs get a charismatic centre left leader like Chuka Umunna
https://bellacaledonia.org.uk/2019/12/06/you-paid-for-this/
Boris Johnson, the British prime minister, said on Tuesday that the UK wanted to ensure US tech companies such as Google, Facebook and Amazon make a “fairer contribution”, confirming his commitment to a 2 per cent tax on revenues from search engines, social networks and online marketplaces.
https://www.ft.com/content/6529014c-169a-11ea-9ee4-11f260415385
Therein lies the fundamental problem with the stability and continuity of the UK. The Scottish independence movement is, at once, too strong to be defeated in devolved elections and too weak to achieve its main policy aim. Assuming a Tory win on Thursday, the fact of Brexit might shift the dial enough for the Scottish Government to be able both to secure a second referendum and to win it, but the latter especially is by no means a foregone conclusion - so, what if they lose again? Do we think that the 45% (or perhaps more) of the electorate that would back Yes in a second failed referendum are going to give up, any more than they did after the first?
Should Scottish voters continue both to elect pro-independence legislators and to reject independence at the ballot box then this situation has the potential to drag on forever. It would be as if the UK electorate had voted Remain in 2015 and then returned a strong Eurosceptic majority to Parliament in 2017. It makes life very difficult both for the potentially seceding state, which is stuck in a doom loop of constitutional introspection and bad-tempered bickering that comes to predominate over all else, and for the remainder of the union to which it belongs, which is meant both to treat it as an equal partner with a full stake in the affairs of the collective and as an unstable element, the departure of which must always be planned for (even though nobody has the faintest idea when or if this will ever happen.)
If the demand for a second referendum is made, with sufficient public support, both loudly enough and for long enough then, eventually, it will have to be accommodated. Unlike, for example, in the US or Germany, the Union is accepted not to be indissoluble and, as a logical consequence, must therefore be viewed as both voluntary and temporary. Scotland is not a captive and would, ultimately, have to be given its say. However, if the result of that is also a No vote then there could well be a third attempt made five or ten years down the line, with possibly more to come after that.
If Scotland won't vote either to go or to give its nationalist politicians the boot, then I'm afraid that this issue will continue to erupt like an active volcano at regular intervals until long after we're all dead and buried.