@DavidL I agree that a Corbyn government would be a disaster, but not on borrowing costs. In theory the only limit for a sovereign government's deficit is the printing press , value of it's currency, and inflation. But as Japan and America has showed in today's world there is no limit to deficits, even Greece has had negative intererst rates this year.
Go to Greece and ask them how things are going......
Also care to remind us what happened to youth unemployment over there
They're not a sovereign government, and they don't have a printing press.
Can I ask those on here who are Labour/Corbyn supporters, what was your reception to that interview?
I cant tell if it really was as bad as I am making it out or my Anti Cornym bias taking over.
I don't know - I never watch Andrew Neil (and won't watch his interviews with Johnson and Swinson either) - IMO one of the worst practitioners of interview by browbeating and interruption (Paxman and Humphries are the others I avoid).
At least he knows some details, and follows up his questions with further question pressing on those details. Most of the other interviewers around seem to just follow a rather lame script..
I would think the key to a good example and a bad one, and it might difficult to spot the difference depending on the interviewer and the interviewee, is whether they are able to as you suggest follow up on a point raised, in a way that seems genuinely to be pinning the politician down on what they just said, rather than giving the impression they are working off a checklist of gotcha points they want to get through to show how smart they, the interviewer are. It would be tricky, since obviously they'll have prepared some key moments, but if an approach is not getting anything new out of the interviewee it needs to be dropped rather than the interviewer looking like they have nothing else to go on (so repeating a question would be fine, but depends on how much the subject has avoided answering, and how petulantly), and they need to not leap on to a separate subject to prove how smart they are if having tugged on a thread successfully the politician is either unravelling or at least saying something new and of value.
Corbyn had a script and said nothing new or of value. I think he was given the opportunity to.
Given this and others pointing out that Corbyn has made apologies before, is it possible this was a deliberate tactic because it will rile up his base? I'm generally wary of interpretations where even looking crap (supposedly, I've not seen more than a clip or two) is part of a strategy, since any legitimate cockup is then part of the strategy, but Labour's vote is rising, and their voters either don't beleive the anti-semitism stories or don't care, so seeing Corbyn refuse to be 'bullied' by the 'media' on the issue will probably excite them. https://twitter.com/mehdirhasan/status/1199440674111852546
I see Labour’s top operative is sharpening its attack lines.
One of the standout features of this campaign has been the weakness of the Labour attack. The goal is wide open, but they refuse to put the ball in the back of the net. Their attacks are predictable and really only preach to the choir.
An effective attack would undermine Conservative faith in Boris. One such way would be to remind the voters of his disloyalty to May and dither on Brexit.
It’s frustrating to watch. So many opportunities.
What makes you think the Tory voters would be annoyed at Boris's disloyalty to May?
Tory voters didn't back May either. At the European elections remember. Not only did May only get a 9% score in the European Elections, the Tory vote then was just 11% of the Tory vote at the General Election. 89% of voters who voted Tory at the last election either abstained or voted for someone else.
Some Tories take a dim view on Boris’s dishonesty and dishonourable behaviour. An old school minority perhaps, but enough to make a difference.
What dishonourable behaviour?
Rejecting May wasn't dishonourable, its what you do when your leader is making horrendous mistakes. Maybe Labour could take note - May was the worst PM in centuries but looks like Churchill compared to Corbyn who still hasn't been ousted by the dishonourable ditherers behind him in the Commons.
Agreeing at chequers, then resigning in a way to cause maximum damage, whipping dissent on the backbenches, courting the DUP and cheering Mays defeat. He should have been sacked from the party for any of that. The fact he ended up actually voting for the thing he opposed when it was too late to gain a figleaf of loyalty, is the cherry on the cake.
He treated her abysmally. He complains about delay and dither, when he was the chief source of both.
I agree that voting for May's deal was an appalling error of judgement.
The rest of it though was only right. May's deal was a sell out of Brexit by Remainer for Remainers. The fact Remainers in Parliament rejected it are why Boris will hopefully get a majority and enact a proper Brexit.
I see Labour’s top operative is sharpening its attack lines.
stop the presses
That can't be real... can it?
In fairness there’s a few other lines below, but it’s real.
No flies on him.
He is single handedly making the election a Borgon conclusion.
There was a moment after 2017 when many of the moderates, Cooper, Chucka indicated they would like to join shadow cabinet, and MCD and JC said nah, we’re sticking with our mates.
Can I ask those on here who are Labour/Corbyn supporters, what was your reception to that interview?
I cant tell if it really was as bad as I am making it out or my Anti Cornym bias taking over.
I don't know - I never watch Andrew Neil (and won't watch his interviews with Johnson and Swinson either) - IMO one of the worst practitioners of interview by browbeating and interruption (Paxman and Humphries are the others I avoid).
I've just watched the Neil interview of Corbyn. I was expecting a car crash from comments on here and headlines in the papers. But I came away sympathising with Corbyn and I'm a LibDem If you can put yourself in the shoes of an undecided voter, curious about what Corbyn will reveal in this interview, I think you will sympathise with him. A gentle quietly spoken considerate man being bullied but coping politely with it. I think Corbyn will get a slight boost from this. The screeching headlines and Tory whooping will just reinforce the nasty image of the Tories. In the same vein, I think Jo Swinson got a slight boost by the way she handled the hostile QT audience.
You call yourself a Lib Dem but you seem to be anything-but-Tory and view Labour and the Lib Dems as interchangeable.
Hence the extraordinary tactical voting levels you expect. No offence but real Lib Dems are not Labour with another colour. Lib Dem and Labour are not meant to be interchangeable.
Can I ask those on here who are Labour/Corbyn supporters, what was your reception to that interview?
I cant tell if it really was as bad as I am making it out or my Anti Cornym bias taking over.
I don't know - I never watch Andrew Neil (and won't watch his interviews with Johnson and Swinson either) - IMO one of the worst practitioners of interview by browbeating and interruption (Paxman and Humphries are the others I avoid).
I've just watched the Neil interview of Corbyn. I was expecting a car crash from comments on here and headlines in the papers. But I came away sympathising with Corbyn and I'm a LibDem If you can put yourself in the shoes of an undecided voter, curious about what Corbyn will reveal in this interview, I think you will sympathise with him. A gentle quietly spoken considerate man being bullied but coping politely with it. I think Corbyn will get a slight boost from this. The screeching headlines and Tory whooping will just reinforce the nasty image of the Tories. In the same vein, I think Jo Swinson got a slight boost by the way she handled the hostile QT audience.
I find the 'he is being bullied' impression of things generally pretty ridiculous. I can believe it, as he has a calm, gentle manner most of the time, but saying things in a softly spoken way doesn't make what you say automatically reasonable, nor does someone badgering them equate to bullying. Corbyn is not a devil, and people don't believe he is. And I think he genuinely tries to be very considerate. But I also don't think he is as considerate as he thinks he is, and in the same way that Boris's folksy manner should not disguise his uglier side, Corbyn's soft spoken mannerisms should not give him a pass to waffle, dissemble or provide cover for his own inepititude because he looks and sounds reasonable. Even we accept that Corbyn is as great as he thinks he is, the idea a journalist badgering him, even unfairly, is bullying him, is utter tripe. He'd be dealing with a biased media figure, not being bullied.
Can any Corbynites explain how the investments will be repaid at the maturity of their nationalisation bonds? Or does it not matter to you people?
Ooh please sir, please sir may I be allowed to answer? It doesn't matter a tuppeny fuck. No one who is thinking of voting Lab will care where or how he got his figures, or indeed if, as he demonstrated this evening, he was pulling them out of his arse. They care that his heart is in the right place and that he is doing the right thing because it is the right thing to do. The rest is details. Billions, quillions, kabillions. Who cares?
Anyone with any sense cares. I'm not surprised Corbynites don't.
After the financial crisis and QE, people aren’t frightened of illions any more.
Can I ask those on here who are Labour/Corbyn supporters, what was your reception to that interview?
I cant tell if it really was as bad as I am making it out or my Anti Cornym bias taking over.
I don't know - I never watch Andrew Neil (and won't watch his interviews with Johnson and Swinson either) - IMO one of the worst practitioners of interview by browbeating and interruption (Paxman and Humphries are the others I avoid).
I've just watched the Neil interview of Corbyn. I was expecting a car crash from comments on here and headlines in the papers. But I came away sympathising with Corbyn and I'm a LibDem If you can put yourself in the shoes of an undecided voter, curious about what Corbyn will reveal in this interview, I think you will sympathise with him. A gentle quietly spoken considerate man being bullied but coping politely with it. I think Corbyn will get a slight boost from this. The screeching headlines and Tory whooping will just reinforce the nasty image of the Tories. In the same vein, I think Jo Swinson got a slight boost by the way she handled the hostile QT audience.
You call yourself a Lib Dem but you seem to be anything-but-Tory and view Labour and the Lib Dems as interchangeable.
Hence the extraordinary tactical voting levels you expect. No offence but real Lib Dems are not Labour with another colour. Lib Dem and Labour are not meant to be interchangeable.
Labour and LibDem voters organising to keep the Tories out was hugely effective 97-10. A hard lesson learned after 18 years in opposition. I can see why you are against it.
Can I ask those on here who are Labour/Corbyn supporters, what was your reception to that interview?
I cant tell if it really was as bad as I am making it out or my Anti Cornym bias taking over.
I don't know - I never watch Andrew Neil (and won't watch his interviews with Johnson and Swinson either) - IMO one of the worst practitioners of interview by browbeating and interruption (Paxman and Humphries are the others I avoid).
I've just watched the Neil interview of Corbyn. I was expecting a car crash from comments on here and headlines in the papers. But I came away sympathising with Corbyn and I'm a LibDem If you can put yourself in the shoes of an undecided voter, curious about what Corbyn will reveal in this interview, I think you will sympathise with him. A gentle quietly spoken considerate man being bullied but coping politely with it. I think Corbyn will get a slight boost from this. The screeching headlines and Tory whooping will just reinforce the nasty image of the Tories. In the same vein, I think Jo Swinson got a slight boost by the way she handled the hostile QT audience.
You call yourself a Lib Dem but you seem to be anything-but-Tory and view Labour and the Lib Dems as interchangeable.
Hence the extraordinary tactical voting levels you expect. No offence but real Lib Dems are not Labour with another colour. Lib Dem and Labour are not meant to be interchangeable.
Labour and LibDem voters organising to keep the Tories out was hugely effective 97-10. A hard lesson learned after 18 years in opposition. I can see why you are against it.
I see Labour’s top operative is sharpening its attack lines.
Burgeon is an absolute moron. No matter how hard I try, I can't forget that...and that in 3 weeks he might be a minister of state.
Oh, he'd be more than a minister of state I assume, he'd be a Secretary of State. Prepare yourselves, it's happening. Some people are improved by high office (well, statistically it must happen occasionally). We had best hope.
Can I ask those on here who are Labour/Corbyn supporters, what was your reception to that interview?
I cant tell if it really was as bad as I am making it out or my Anti Cornym bias taking over.
I don't know - I never watch Andrew Neil (and won't watch his interviews with Johnson and Swinson either) - IMO one of the worst practitioners of interview by browbeating and interruption (Paxman and Humphries are the others I avoid).
I've just watched the Neil interview of Corbyn. I was expecting a car crash from comments on here and headlines in the papers. But I came away sympathising with Corbyn and I'm a LibDem If you can put yourself in the shoes of an undecided voter, curious about what Corbyn will reveal in this interview, I think you will sympathise with him. A gentle quietly spoken considerate man being bullied but coping politely with it. I think Corbyn will get a slight boost from this. The screeching headlines and Tory whooping will just reinforce the nasty image of the Tories. In the same vein, I think Jo Swinson got a slight boost by the way she handled the hostile QT audience.
You call yourself a Lib Dem but you seem to be anything-but-Tory and view Labour and the Lib Dems as interchangeable.
Hence the extraordinary tactical voting levels you expect. No offence but real Lib Dems are not Labour with another colour. Lib Dem and Labour are not meant to be interchangeable.
I'm estimating the tactical voting levels from the polls not wishful thinking. See the Ashcroft poll on tactical voting by LibDems published today. My assumption is quite conservative compared with his finding. There is no doubt that I am anti-Tory - particularly this ideological far right variety. I'm OK with Rory and Ken Clarke and others like them. I am a liberal so I don't like the Harriet Harman PC authoritarian streak in Labour. I prefer the Farage approach to PCness. I'm a bit of a Victor Meldrew. "I don't believe it!"
Can I ask those on here who are Labour/Corbyn supporters, what was your reception to that interview?
I cant tell if it really was as bad as I am making it out or my Anti Cornym bias taking over.
I don't know - I never watch Andrew Neil (and won't watch his interviews with Johnson and Swinson either) - IMO one of the worst practitioners of interview by browbeating and interruption (Paxman and Humphries are the others I avoid).
I've just watched the Neil interview of Corbyn. I was expecting a car crash from comments on here and headlines in the papers. But I came away sympathising with Corbyn and I'm a LibDem If you can put yourself in the shoes of an undecided voter, curious about what Corbyn will reveal in this interview, I think you will sympathise with him. A gentle quietly spoken considerate man being bullied but coping politely with it. I think Corbyn will get a slight boost from this. The screeching headlines and Tory whooping will just reinforce the nasty image of the Tories. In the same vein, I think Jo Swinson got a slight boost by the way she handled the hostile QT audience.
I find the 'he is being bullied' impression of things generally pretty ridiculous. I can believe it, as he has a calm, gentle manner most of the time, but saying things in a softly spoken way doesn't make what you say automatically reasonable, nor does someone badgering them equate to bullying. Corbyn is not a devil, and people don't believe he is. And I think he genuinely tries to be very considerate. But I also don't think he is as considerate as he thinks he is, and in the same way that Boris's folksy manner should not disguise his uglier side, Corbyn's soft spoken mannerisms should not give him a pass to waffle, dissemble or provide cover for his own inepititude because he looks and sounds reasonable. Even we accept that Corbyn is as great as he thinks he is, the idea a journalist badgering him, even unfairly, is bullying him, is utter tripe. He'd be dealing with a biased media figure, not being bullied.
I'm trying to walk in the shoes of an undecided voter and assess the emotional impact of that interview. Corbyn's manner may be an act. He might have a temper. He might be dangerous. I'm not assessing that. I'm trying to assess the gut reaction of undecided voters. I think sympathy.
Can I ask those on here who are Labour/Corbyn supporters, what was your reception to that interview?
I cant tell if it really was as bad as I am making it out or my Anti Cornym bias taking over.
I don't know - I never watch Andrew Neil (and won't watch his interviews with Johnson and Swinson either) - IMO one of the worst practitioners of interview by browbeating and interruption (Paxman and Humphries are the others I avoid).
I've just watched the Neil interview of Corbyn. I was expecting a car crash from comments on here and headlines in the papers. But I came away sympathising with Corbyn and I'm a LibDem If you can put yourself in the shoes of an undecided voter, curious about what Corbyn will reveal in this interview, I think you will sympathise with him. A gentle quietly spoken considerate man being bullied but coping politely with it. I think Corbyn will get a slight boost from this. The screeching headlines and Tory whooping will just reinforce the nasty image of the Tories. In the same vein, I think Jo Swinson got a slight boost by the way she handled the hostile QT audience.
You call yourself a Lib Dem but you seem to be anything-but-Tory and view Labour and the Lib Dems as interchangeable.
Hence the extraordinary tactical voting levels you expect. No offence but real Lib Dems are not Labour with another colour. Lib Dem and Labour are not meant to be interchangeable.
Stop bullying Barnsey! The Barnsey Spread has modest levels of tactical voting compared to what I’m expecting, so bully this instead. Rabb, Redwood, Mogg all in trouble. Barnsey is right in his analysis, anyone playing the calm controlled person in the face of Brillo’s dislike able aggression is bound to come out better. The likes of David Frost and Sophie Ridge would have won against Corbyn tonight, not failed, the difference in styles so Gimly v Legolas precision.
It’s remarkable, two election campaigns now with Corbyn upticking in the polls and Tories unable to do anything about it.
Given this and others pointing out that Corbyn has made apologies before, is it possible this was a deliberate tactic because it will rile up his base? I'm generally wary of interpretations where even looking crap (supposedly, I've not seen more than a clip or two) is part of a strategy, since any legitimate cockup is then part of the strategy, but Labour's vote is rising, and their voters either don't beleive the anti-semitism stories or don't care, so seeing Corbyn refuse to be 'bullied' by the 'media' on the issue will probably excite them. https://twitter.com/mehdirhasan/status/1199440674111852546
Can I ask those on here who are Labour/Corbyn supporters, what was your reception to that interview?
I cant tell if it really was as bad as I am making it out or my Anti Cornym bias taking over.
I don't know - I never watch Andrew Neil (and won't watch his interviews with Johnson and Swinson either) - IMO one of the worst practitioners of interview by browbeating and interruption (Paxman and Humphries are the others I avoid).
I've just watched the Neil interview of Corbyn. I was expecting a car crash from comments on here and headlines in the papers. But I came away sympathising with Corbyn and I'm a LibDem If you can put yourself in the shoes of an undecided voter, curious about what Corbyn will reveal in this interview, I think you will sympathise with him. A gentle quietly spoken considerate man being bullied but coping politely with it. I think Corbyn will get a slight boost from this. The screeching headlines and Tory whooping will just reinforce the nasty image of the Tories. In the same vein, I think Jo Swinson got a slight boost by the way she handled the hostile QT audience.
You call yourself a Lib Dem but you seem to be anything-but-Tory and view Labour and the Lib Dems as interchangeable.
Hence the extraordinary tactical voting levels you expect. No offence but real Lib Dems are not Labour with another colour. Lib Dem and Labour are not meant to be interchangeable.
Stop bullying Barnsey! The Barnsey Spread has modest levels of tactical voting compared to what I’m expecting, so bully this instead. Rabb, Redwood, Mogg all in trouble. Barnsey is right in his analysis, anyone playing the calm controlled person in the face of Brillo’s dislike able aggression is bound to come out better. The likes of David Frost and Sophie Ridge would have won against Corbyn tonight, not failed, the difference in styles so Gimly v Legolas precision.
It’s remarkable, two election campaigns now with Corbyn upticking in the polls and Tories unable to do anything about it.
Can I ask those on here who are Labour/Corbyn supporters, what was your reception to that interview?
I cant tell if it really was as bad as I am making it out or my Anti Cornym bias taking over.
I don't know - I never watch Andrew Neil (and won't watch his interviews with Johnson and Swinson either) - IMO one of the worst practitioners of interview by browbeating and interruption (Paxman and Humphries are the others I avoid).
At least he knows some details, and follows up his questions with further question pressing on those details. Most of the other interviewers around seem to just follow a rather lame script..
He also gives the interviewee time to answer as long as they are actually trying to do that. What he won't let them do is waffle to try and avoid answering the question. That was Corbyn's problem tonight. He didn't want to answer the questions and Neil wouldn't let him get away with it.
Can I ask those on here who are Labour/Corbyn supporters, what was your reception to that interview?
I cant tell if it really was as bad as I am making it out or my Anti Cornym bias taking over.
I don't know - I never watch Andrew Neil (and won't watch his interviews with Johnson and Swinson either) - IMO one of the worst practitioners of interview by browbeating and interruption (Paxman and Humphries are the others I avoid).
I've just w In the same vein, I think Jo Swinson got a slight boost by the way she handled the hostile QT audience.
I find the 'he is being bullied' impression of things generally pretty ridiculous. I can believe it, as he has a calm, gentle manner most of the time, but saying things in a softly spoken way doesn't make what you say automatically reasonable, nor does someone badgering them equate to bullying. Corbyn is not a devil, and people don't believe he is. And I think he genuinely tries to be very considerate. But I also don't think he is as considerate as he thinks he is, and in the same way that Boris's folksy manner should not disguise his uglier side, Corbyn's soft spoken mannerisms should not give him a pass to waffle, dissemble or provide cover for his own inepititude because he looks and sounds reasonable. Even we accept that Corbyn is as great as he thinks he is, the idea a journalist badgering him, even unfairly, is bullying him, is utter tripe. He'd be dealing with a biased media figure, not being bullied.
I'm trying to walk in the shoes of an undecided voter and assess the emotional impact of that interview. Corbyn's manner may be an act. He might have a temper. He might be dangerous. I'm not assessing that. I'm trying to assess the gut reaction of undecided voters. I think sympathy.
And I can believe some will act that way, but think it would be pretty ridiculous. And I don't actually think Corbyn's manner is an act exactly. In the ITV debate he was definitely playing up his personal style in his 'this is a very serious matter I am concerned about' voice in answer to a few questions, but like with Boris playing up his bumbling good fella schtick, I don't think it is false so much as just being aware of what part of themselves people like, and emphasising it in a controlled way.
Surely there has to be something more to that case? A bit like the classic Daily Mail court cases that have the headline of somebody being let off because of some BS excuse, but actually the excuse is just part of a much wider set of circumstances.
If it’s as badly as the header I predict a backlash against Labour and Corbyn in particular.
I bet it doesn't even move the needle. It should, an incompenent terrorist sympathizer anti-semitic enabler whose manifesto he admits isn't actually fully costed and many ordinary people are going to find they have to pay much higher taxes. But it won't.
Spiked? Leave.eu? The Sun? Hardly an unbiased selection at the top of this page. I dipped in and out of the interview and Corbyn was doing fine. People's opinions about it will depend on which spin they choose to read.
Can I ask those on here who are Labour/Corbyn supporters, what was your reception to that interview?
I cant tell if it really was as bad as I am making it out or my Anti Cornym bias taking over.
I don't know - I never watch Andrew Neil (and won't watch his interviews with Johnson and Swinson either) - IMO one of the worst practitioners of interview by browbeating and interruption (Paxman and Humphries are the others I avoid).
At least he knows some details, and follows up his questions with further question pressing on those details. Most of the other interviewers around seem to just follow a rather lame script..
He also gives the interviewee time to answer as long as they are actually trying to do that. What he won't let them do is waffle to try and avoid answering the question. That was Corbyn's problem tonight. He didn't want to answer the questions and Neil wouldn't let him get away with it.
Just as some interviewers genuinely don't let some people answer a question, some politicians (many) insist they have answered the question, or are answering it, when they very much are not. When a question is on how to pay for something, for instance, the moral reasoning of the decision is not relevant. It will be very important politically, but would not be an answer to the actual question. It's why I would give more leniency to an interviewer overdoing it, because let's not kid ourselves, our politicians will answer their own question, or answer in a way which does not address the actual point, if they are not pressed. It's the 'have something to say and say it, no matter what they ask' approach from Yes Minister. And someone overdoing the questioning is preferable to letting a politician get away with that shit, which is what a PEB is for.
If it’s as badly as the header I predict a backlash against Labour and Corbyn in particular.
I bet it doesn't even move the needle. It should, an incompenent terrorist sympathizer anti-semitic enabler whose manifesto he admits isn't actually fully costed and many ordinary people are going to find they have to pay much higher taxes. But it won't.
It certainly gives the Conservatives some ammunition to play with in the coming days.
I’m wondering if Labours recent hubris may be coming to an end especially considering there may be many other influential figures coming forward to condemn his apologist stance.
Spiked? Leave.eu? The Sun? Hardly an unbiased selection at the top of this page. I dipped in and out of the interview and Corbyn was doing fine. People's opinions about it will depend on which spin they choose to read.
He kept his cool which is a plus.
As far as the content though I thought he really struggled and has probably handed a week's worth of clips to his opponents.
We could be saying just the same about Boris tomorrow night and i'm sure he's having a sleepless night.
Surely there has to be something more to that case? A bit like the classic Daily Mail court cases that have the headline of somebody being let off because of some BS excuse, but actually the excuse is just part of a much wider set of circumstances.
I'm not sure whose fault it is but it's a huge fail somewhere that when you read an article about a court case you can't click on a link to read what the judge wrote about it.
Still chuckling at BigG’s suggestion that Boris has gravitas. Boris clearly has and exploits a seductive charm for various manipulative ends, but he is yet to achieve gravitas.
Can I ask those on here who are Labour/Corbyn supporters, what was your reception to that interview?
I cant tell if it really was as bad as I am making it out or my Anti Cornym bias taking over.
I don't know - I never watch Andrew Neil (and won't watch his interviews with Johnson and Swinson either) - IMO one of the worst practitioners of interview by browbeating and interruption (Paxman and Humphries are the others I avoid).
I've just watched the Neil interview of Corbyn. I was expecting a car crash from comments on here and headlines in the papers. But I came away sympathising with Corbyn and I'm a LibDem If you can put yourself in the shoes of an undecided voter, curious about what Corbyn will reveal in this interview, I think you will sympathise with him. A gentle quietly spoken considerate man being bullied but coping politely with it. I think Corbyn will get a slight boost from this. The screeching headlines and Tory whooping will just reinforce the nasty image of the Tories. In the same vein, I think Jo Swinson got a slight boost by the way she handled the hostile QT audience.
You call yourself a Lib Dem but you seem to be anything-but-Tory and view Labour and the Lib Dems as interchangeable.
Hence the extraordinary tactical voting levels you expect. No offence but real Lib Dems are not Labour with another colour. Lib Dem and Labour are not meant to be interchangeable.
Stop bullying Barnsey! The Barnsey Spread has modest levels of tactical voting compared to what I’m expecting, so bully this instead. Rabb, Redwood, Mogg all in trouble. Barnsey is right in his analysis, anyone playing the calm controlled person in the face of Brillo’s dislike able aggression is bound to come out better. The likes of David Frost and Sophie Ridge would have won against Corbyn tonight, not failed, the difference in styles so Gimly v Legolas precision.
It’s remarkable, two election campaigns now with Corbyn upticking in the polls and Tories unable to do anything about it.
Sorry but this analysis is utterly ridiculous. Corbyn was a disaster tonight and Neil was spot on with his interview technique. I expect him to be exactly the same with Johnson and expect Johnson to make a mess of it just as Corbyn did. Neil is very much in the Frost mould because he will not let the interviewee get away with avoiding the questions or waffling. Just go and look at the Frost political interviews and he used exactly the same techniques.
Surely there has to be something more to that case? A bit like the classic Daily Mail court cases that have the headline of somebody being let off because of some BS excuse, but actually the excuse is just part of a much wider set of circumstances.
If it is as stated then I hope she is appealing and there are some serious questions asked about the original ruling including judges directions.
Just watched the Corbyn interview. I should have guessed the criticism was overblown. Coebyn sounded like the pacifist he is and Neil sounded like the overbearing bully he is. Anyone can ask an impossible to answer hypothetical question. If Swinson and Johnson sound as reasonable our politics will have taken a turn for the better. He avoided sounding belligerent however much he was pushed to do so and that scores points with me.
The main impact of the Neil interview isn't that Corbyn's performance will change votes. Rather, it is that the fallout from the interview is occupying just about all media space - which in turn means that it's blocking any opportunity for Labour to be selling its positive messages. ie There is no mention anywhere prominent of Labour policies re NHS, Education, Public Sector pay, abolishing Universal Credit etc etc - all the space is being taken by "how Corbyn did in the interview".
Can I ask those on here who are Labour/Corbyn supporters, what was your reception to that interview?
I cant tell if it really was as bad as I am making it out or my Anti Cornym bias taking over.
I don't know - I never watch Andrew Neil (and won't watch his interviews with Johnson and Swinson either) - IMO one of the worst practitioners of interview by browbeating and interruption (Paxman and Humphries are the others I avoid).
I've just watched the Neil interview of Corbyn. I was expecting a car crash from comments on here and headlines in the papers. But I came away sympathising with Corbyn and I'm a LibDem If you can put yourself in the shoes of an undecided voter, curious about what Corbyn will reveal in this interview, I think you will sympathise with him. A gentle quietly spoken considerate man being bullied but coping politely with it. I think Corbyn will get a slight boost from this. The screeching headlines and Tory whooping will just reinforce the nasty image of the Tories. In the same vein, I think Jo Swinson got a slight boost by the way she handled the hostile QT audience.
You call yourself a Lib Dem but you seem to be anything-but-Tory and view Labour and the Lib Dems as interchangeable.
Hence the extraordinary tactical voting levels you expect. No offence but real Lib Dems are not Labour with another colour. Lib Dem and Labour are not meant to be interchangeable.
Stop bullying Barnsey! The Barnsey Spread has modest levels of tactical voting compared to what I’m expecting, so bully this instead. Rabb, Redwood, Mogg all in trouble. Barnsey is right in his analysis, anyone playing the calm controlled person in the face of Brillo’s dislike able aggression is bound to come out better. The likes of David Frost and Sophie Ridge would have won against Corbyn tonight, not failed, the difference in styles so Gimly v Legolas precision.
It’s remarkable, two election campaigns now with Corbyn upticking in the polls and Tories unable to do anything about it.
I'm not bullying him. We've gotten into some really interesting and detailed numerical discussions over it in recent weeks. I respond to him because we have different opinions and I'm fascinated by it.
It Barnesian thinks I'm bullying then I'll apologise and not engage with him anymore. I hope he doesn't take it that way.
Surely there has to be something more to that case? A bit like the classic Daily Mail court cases that have the headline of somebody being let off because of some BS excuse, but actually the excuse is just part of a much wider set of circumstances.
Point being her sister had (I think) automatically committed an offence by sending the video, and as a police officer she had a duty not to ignore it. Against that, there is discretion not to pursue a case of this kind, and there is a strong suggestion of bias in her prosecution. And she has an otherwise exemplary record.
Just watched the Corbyn interview. I should have guessed the criticism was overblown. Coebyn sounded like the pacifist he is and Neil sounded like the overbearing bully he is. Anyone can ask an impossible to answer hypothetical question. If Swinson and Johnson sound as reasonable our politics will have taken a turn for the better. He avoided sounding belligerent however much he was pushed to do so and that scores points with me.
If Boris is asked the ISIS question he will now give the unequivocal answer that he would sanction the kill.
Just watched the Corbyn interview. I should have guessed the criticism was overblown. Coebyn sounded like the pacifist he is and Neil sounded like the overbearing bully he is. Anyone can ask an impossible to answer hypothetical question. If Swinson and Johnson sound as reasonable our politics will have taken a turn for the better. He avoided sounding belligerent however much he was pushed to do so and that scores points with me.
I wonder if you are denying the obvious impression given to the average voter.
I would be interested in how this affects the perception of Mr Corbyn’s trustworthiness and suitability for Prime Minister.
The coverage certainly seems damaging in all media outlets. I wonder how Labour can counteract this.
Can I ask those on here who are Labour/Corbyn supporters, what was your reception to that interview?
I cant tell if it really was as bad as I am making it out or my Anti Cornym bias taking over.
I've just watched the Neil interview of Corbyn. I was expecting a car crash from comments on here and headlines in the papers. But I came away sympathising with Corbyn and I'm a LibDem If you can put yourself in the shoes of an undecided voter, curious about what Corbyn will reveal in this interview, I think you will sympathise with him. A gentle quietly spoken considerate man being bullied but coping politely with it. I think Corbyn will get a slight boost from this. The screeching headlines and Tory whooping will just reinforce the nasty image of the Tories. In the same vein, I think Jo Swinson got a slight boost by the way she handled the hostile QT audience.
You call yourself a Lib Dem but you seem to be anything-but-Tory and view Labour and the Lib Dems as interchangeable.
Hence the extraordinary tactical voting levels you expect. No offence but real Lib Dems are not Labour with another colour. Lib Dem and Labour are not meant to be interchangeable.
Stop bullying Barnsey! The Barnsey Spread has modest levels of tactical voting compared to what I’m expecting, so bully this instead. Rabb, Redwood, Mogg all in trouble. Barnsey is right in his analysis, anyone playing the calm controlled person in the face of Brillo’s dislike able aggression is bound to come out better. The likes of David Frost and Sophie Ridge would have won against Corbyn tonight, not failed, the difference in styles so Gimly v Legolas precision.
It’s remarkable, two election campaigns now with Corbyn upticking in the polls and Tories unable to do anything about it.
Sorry but this analysis is utterly ridiculous. Corbyn was a disaster tonight and Neil was spot on with his interview technique. I expect him to be exactly the same with Johnson and expect Johnson to make a mess of it just as Corbyn did. Neil is very much in the Frost mould because he will not let the interviewee get away with avoiding the questions or waffling. Just go and look at the Frost political interviews and he used exactly the same techniques.
I don't think you are an undecided voter. I was assessing the likely impact on an undecided voter, justified or not. I am interested in the possible impact on voting behaviour. It's a different conversation from yours about interview technique.
Just watched the Corbyn interview. I should have guessed the criticism was overblown. Coebyn sounded like the pacifist he is and Neil sounded like the overbearing bully he is. Anyone can ask an impossible to answer hypothetical question. If Swinson and Johnson sound as reasonable our politics will have taken a turn for the better. He avoided sounding belligerent however much he was pushed to do so and that scores points with me.
The how do you propose to pay for it question was the exact opposite of hypothetical. That it was impossible to answer is hardly Brillo’s fault...
Can I ask those on here who are Labour/Corbyn supporters, what was your reception to that interview?
I cant tell if it really was as bad as I am making it out or my Anti Cornym bias taking over.
I don't know - I never watch Andrew Neil (and won't watch his interviews with Johnson and Swinson either) - IMO one of the worst practitioners of interview by browbeating and interruption (Paxman and Humphries are the others I avoid).
I've just watched the Neil interview of Corbyn. I was expecting a car crash from comments on here and headlines in the papers. But I came away sympathising with Corbyn and I'm a LibDem If you can put yourself in the shoes of an undecided voter, curious about what Corbyn will reveal in this interview, I think you will sympathise with him. A gentle quietly spoken considerate man being bullied but coping politely with it. I think Corbyn will get a slight boost from this. The screeching headlines and Tory whooping will just reinforce the nasty image of the Tories. In the same vein, I think Jo Swinson got a slight boost by the way she handled the hostile QT audience.
You call yourself a Lib Dem but you seem to be anything-but-Tory and view Labour and the Lib Dems as interchangeable.
Hence the extraordinary tactical voting levels you expect. No offence but real Lib Dems are not Labour with another colour. Lib Dem and Labour are not meant to be interchangeable.
Stop bullying Barnsey! The Barnsey Spread has modest levels of tactical voting compared to what I’m expecting, so bully this instead. Rabb, Redwood, Mogg all in trouble. Barnsey is right in his analysis, anyone playing the calm controlled person in the face of Brillo’s dislike able aggression is bound to come out better. The likes of David Frost and Sophie Ridge would have won against Corbyn tonight, not failed, the difference in styles so Gimly v Legolas precision.
It’s remarkable, two election campaigns now with Corbyn upticking in the polls and Tories unable to do anything about it.
I'm not bullying him. We've gotten into some really interesting and detailed numerical discussions over it in recent weeks. I respond to him because we have different opinions and I'm fascinated by it.
It Barnesian thinks I'm bullying then I'll apologise and not engage with him anymore. I hope he doesn't take it that way.
I don't think you are bullying me! I don't think egg thinks that either. It was banter.
Just watched the Corbyn interview. I should have guessed the criticism was overblown. Coebyn sounded like the pacifist he is and Neil sounded like the overbearing bully he is. Anyone can ask an impossible to answer hypothetical question. If Swinson and Johnson sound as reasonable our politics will have taken a turn for the better. He avoided sounding belligerent however much he was pushed to do so and that scores points with me.
I wonder if you are denying the obvious impression given to the average voter.
I would be interested in how this affects the perception of Mr Corbyn’s trustworthiness and suitability for Prime Minister.
The coverage certainly seems damaging in all media outlets. I wonder how Labour can counteract this.
I don't think you are an undecided voter. I was assessing the likely impact on an undecided voter, justified or not. I am interested in the possible impact on voting behaviour. It's a different conversation from yours about interview technique.
My reply was to egg who was critical of Neil's interview technique not your comments which I understand.
You could argue it wasn’t a car crash but it was very bad. The anti semitism story will dog Corbyn for a few more days yet due to his non answer but perhaps his lack of understanding regarding taxes and his obstinate/clueless manner regarding the Waspi payments will be damaging. Some voters probably want to close their eyes and hope Labour can afford to treat everyone to everything but his loose understanding of economics would have concerned all but the biggest dreamers.
I’m not sure it will move the polls in a visible way but I wouldn’t be surprised if the fallout and negative headlines does stem the Labour uptick this week.
Just watched the Corbyn interview. I should have guessed the criticism was overblown. Coebyn sounded like the pacifist he is and Neil sounded like the overbearing bully he is. Anyone can ask an impossible to answer hypothetical question. If Swinson and Johnson sound as reasonable our politics will have taken a turn for the better. He avoided sounding belligerent however much he was pushed to do so and that scores points with me.
If Boris is asked the ISIS question he will now give the unequivocal answer that he would sanction the kill.
Rambo Johnson. I think you underestimate the voters. In this new age of delicate sensibilities there are less neanderthals around than you imagine
Can I ask those on here who are Labour/Corbyn supporters, what was your reception to that interview?
I cant tell if it really was as bad as I am making it out or my Anti Cornym bias taking over.
I don't know - I never watch Andrew Neil (and won't watch his interviews with Johnson and Swinson either) - IMO one of the worst practitioners of interview by browbeating and interruption (Paxman and Humphries are the others I avoid).
I've just watched the Neil interview of Corbyn. I was expecting a car crash from comments on here and headlines in the papers. But I came away sympathising with Corbyn and I'm a LibDem If you can put yourself in the shoes of an undecided voter, curious about what Corbyn will reveal in this interview, I think you will sympathise with him. A gentle quietly spoken considerate man being bullied but coping politely with it. I think Corbyn will get a slight boost from this. The screeching headlines and Tory whooping will just reinforce the nasty image of the Tories. In the same vein, I think Jo Swinson got a slight boost by the way she handled the hostile QT audience.
You call yourself a Lib Dem but you seem to be anything-but-Tory and view Labour and the Lib Dems as interchangeable.
Hence the extraordinary tactical voting levels you expect. No offence but real Lib Dems are not Labour with another colour. Lib Dem and Labour are not meant to be interchangeable.
Stop bullying Barnsey! The Barnsey Spread has modest levels of tactical voting compared to what I’m expecting, so bully this instead. Rabb, Redwood, Mogg all in trouble. Barnsey is right in his analysis, anyone playing the calm controlled person in the face of Brillo’s dislike able aggression is bound to come out better. The likes of David Frost and Sophie Ridge would have won against Corbyn tonight, not failed, the difference in styles so Gimly v Legolas precision.
It’s remarkable, two election campaigns now with Corbyn upticking in the polls and Tories unable to do anything about it.
I'm not bullying him. We've gotten into some really interesting and detailed numerical discussions over it in recent weeks. I respond to him because we have different opinions and I'm fascinated by it.
It Barnesian thinks I'm bullying then I'll apologise and not engage with him anymore. I hope he doesn't take it that way.
I'm not sure who owns the toys and who owns the pram but ..... I can't think of anything to finish with without risking being called out for an apology.
I would think Mr Corbyn doing the interview before Johnson was a mistake for him.
If I were Mr Jonhson I would be thoroughly preparing for all and any questions. Mr Cummings may be useful in this task.
It is apparent from the media feedback and subsequent comments that Mr Corbyn was not suitably prepared for the interview. I wonder why this was not the case.
I predict Mr Johnson will be preparing as much as he can to avoid the similar “car crash” seen tonight. It could be a vital voter consideration.
The main impact of the Neil interview isn't that Corbyn's performance will change votes. Rather, it is that the fallout from the interview is occupying just about all media space - which in turn means that it's blocking any opportunity for Labour to be selling its positive messages. ie There is no mention anywhere prominent of Labour policies re NHS, Education, Public Sector pay, abolishing Universal Credit etc etc - all the space is being taken by "how Corbyn did in the interview".
Surely there has to be something more to that case? A bit like the classic Daily Mail court cases that have the headline of somebody being let off because of some BS excuse, but actually the excuse is just part of a much wider set of circumstances.
Point being her sister had (I think) automatically committed an offence by sending the video, and as a police officer she had a duty not to ignore it. Against that, there is discretion not to pursue a case of this kind, and there is a strong suggestion of bias in her prosecution. And she has an otherwise exemplary record.
I don't think you are an undecided voter. I was assessing the likely impact on an undecided voter, justified or not. I am interested in the possible impact on voting behaviour. It's a different conversation from yours about interview technique.
My reply was to egg who was critical of Neil's interview technique not your comments which I understand.
Just watched the Corbyn interview. I should have guessed the criticism was overblown. Coebyn sounded like the pacifist he is and Neil sounded like the overbearing bully he is. Anyone can ask an impossible to answer hypothetical question. If Swinson and Johnson sound as reasonable our politics will have taken a turn for the better. He avoided sounding belligerent however much he was pushed to do so and that scores points with me.
I wonder if you are denying the obvious impression given to the average voter.
I would be interested in how this affects the perception of Mr Corbyn’s trustworthiness and suitability for Prime Minister.
The coverage certainly seems damaging in all media outlets. I wonder how Labour can counteract this.
The average voter probably wasn’t watching.
Agreed but they will watch the news tonight or tomorrow or the bbc website or see a paper. The rabbi timing was bad for Corbyn but had he handled the interview better then he wouldn’t be getting a pasting from all the press. How he must wish Prince Andrew had said something stupid today and given him somewhere to hide.
Just watched the Corbyn interview. I should have guessed the criticism was overblown. Coebyn sounded like the pacifist he is and Neil sounded like the overbearing bully he is. Anyone can ask an impossible to answer hypothetical question. If Swinson and Johnson sound as reasonable our politics will have taken a turn for the better. He avoided sounding belligerent however much he was pushed to do so and that scores points with me.
I wonder if you are denying the obvious impression given to the average voter.
I would be interested in how this affects the perception of Mr Corbyn’s trustworthiness and suitability for Prime Minister.
The coverage certainly seems damaging in all media outlets. I wonder how Labour can counteract this.
The average voter probably wasn’t watching.
I agree but he/she (is that adequate these days?) will read the mainstream reporting of it. It's why MSM is still important.
"According to the BBC he said that Waspi would be paid for from Reserves, but also said there were not sufficient reserves. Separately he mentioned Government Bonds which are obviously borrowing. "
People may well think that they will get a load of money from Labour. To woun
There is a thread by Adam Langleben on Twitter about an anti-semitic member of his local party which is worth reading. The content is pretty unpleasant. For some reason I cannot post it. Labour really ought - if serious - to be coming down on this like a ton of bricks. At a bare minimum it is simply too slow and ineffective.
The issue is not whether Corbyn is himself anti-semitic but whether he is capable of the leadership necessary to stop these sorts of people joining, behaving like this and of getting rid of them when they come to light. That is the issue. And so far he seems quite incapable of doing so - and, at worst, unwilling.
The voters don't care. Apart from the Jewish ones, but there aren't enough of them for Labour to be that bothered.
And the Hindus who described Labour today as having something close to a “fascist ideology”.
“The worst political performance of modern times”.
Not quite a ringing endorsement for Mr.Corybn.
I wonder if Labour members are regretting the choice of their Leader.
Says Johnson's PR woman. Get a grip!
I’m sorry I don’t know what you mean.
I predict many voters will read the media coverage of this interview, even if they didn’t watch it live. It has the probability of being very damaging.
It’s a concern Mr Corbyn was not adequately prepared for the inevitable questions.
Perhaps senior figures in the Labour Party do not take the issues such as those raised very seriously.
I would think Mr Corbyn doing the interview before Johnson was a mistake for him.
If I were Mr Jonhson I would be thoroughly preparing for all and any questions. Mr Cummings may be useful in this task.
It is apparent from the media feedback and subsequent comments that Mr Corbyn was not suitably prepared for the interview. I wonder why this was not the case.
I predict Mr Johnson will be preparing as much as he can to avoid the similar “car crash” seen tonight. It could be a vital voter consideration.
I would think Mr Corbyn doing the interview before Johnson was a mistake for him.
If I were Mr Jonhson I would be thoroughly preparing for all and any questions. Mr Cummings may be useful in this task.
It is apparent from the media feedback and subsequent comments that Mr Corbyn was not suitably prepared for the interview. I wonder why this was not the case.
I predict Mr Johnson will be preparing as much as he can to avoid the similar “car crash” seen tonight. It could be a vital voter consideration.
Clearly every leader will have thoroughly prepared, but I suspect neither of them are very good at thinking quickly. Did you see the clip of Boris talking about the CCHQ fact check? Apparently he'd been fully briefed on that, and yet still just mumbled nonsense for a few minutes, till he got back on track by changing the subject.
It reminded me of that Jeremy Vine column about Boris- where he saw him turn up late to an event and "ad-lib" a wonderful bumbling but funny speech. Vine thought he was amazing - till he saw him do the same thing at another event, and realised that it was all rehearsed, even the backstage fumbling with a piece of borrowed paper to write notes on, which he then left behind.
Why are the web sites above all from Leavers who either have an axe to grind or are so anonymous they have next to no followers? You might as well feature Floater!
Surely there has to be something more to that case? A bit like the classic Daily Mail court cases that have the headline of somebody being let off because of some BS excuse, but actually the excuse is just part of a much wider set of circumstances.
Point being her sister had (I think) automatically committed an offence by sending the video, and as a police officer she had a duty not to ignore it. Against that, there is discretion not to pursue a case of this kind, and there is a strong suggestion of bias in her prosecution. And she has an otherwise exemplary record.
I would think Mr Corbyn doing the interview before Johnson was a mistake for him.
If I were Mr Jonhson I would be thoroughly preparing for all and any questions. Mr Cummings may be useful in this task.
It is apparent from the media feedback and subsequent comments that Mr Corbyn was not suitably prepared for the interview. I wonder why this was not the case.
I predict Mr Johnson will be preparing as much as he can to avoid the similar “car crash” seen tonight. It could be a vital voter consideration.
Maybe he wasn't prepared because, how can you be?
Perhaps a question on anti Semitism may have been an obvious line with an interviewer. This should have been prepared for maybe?
I think Labour made a big mistake in assuming Mr Neil would only have used the occasion to ask about policy.
"According to the BBC he said that Waspi would be paid for from Reserves, but also said there were not sufficient reserves. Separately he mentioned Government Bonds which are obviously borrowing. "
People may well think that they will get a load of money from Labour. To woun
There is a thread by Adam Langleben on Twitter about an anti-semitic member of his local party which is worth reading. The content is pretty unpleasant. For some reason I cannot post it. Labour really ought - if serious - to be coming down on this like a ton of bricks. At a bare minimum it is simply too slow and ineffective.
The issue is not whether Corbyn is himself anti-semitic but whether he is capable of the leadership necessary to stop these sorts of people joining, behaving like this and of getting rid of them when they come to light. That is the issue. And so far he seems quite incapable of doing so - and, at worst, unwilling.
The voters don't care. Apart from the Jewish ones, but there aren't enough of them for Labour to be that bothered.
And the Hindus who described Labour today as having something close to a “fascist ideology”.
I'm pretty concerned about getting Corbyn bonds in return for my utilities shareholding. What will they do about National Grid which is very big in USA?
Surely there has to be something more to that case? A bit like the classic Daily Mail court cases that have the headline of somebody being let off because of some BS excuse, but actually the excuse is just part of a much wider set of circumstances.
Point being her sister had (I think) automatically committed an offence by sending the video, and as a police officer she had a duty not to ignore it. Against that, there is discretion not to pursue a case of this kind, and there is a strong suggestion of bias in her prosecution. And she has an otherwise exemplary record.
I would think Mr Corbyn doing the interview before Johnson was a mistake for him.
If I were Mr Jonhson I would be thoroughly preparing for all and any questions. Mr Cummings may be useful in this task.
It is apparent from the media feedback and subsequent comments that Mr Corbyn was not suitably prepared for the interview. I wonder why this was not the case.
I predict Mr Johnson will be preparing as much as he can to avoid the similar “car crash” seen tonight. It could be a vital voter consideration.
Maybe he wasn't prepared because, how can you be?
Perhaps a question on anti Semitism may have been an obvious line with an interviewer. This should have been prepared for maybe?
I think Labour made a big mistake in assuming Mr Neil would only have used the occasion to ask about policy.
I don't think AN sprang any surprises. I was sort of implying that Corbyn was pre-stuffed (oven ready?) on all of the issues that AN raised and Corbyn had the naive hope that he could talk about what he wanted to talk about. What can you say?
Rambo Johnson. I think you underestimate the voters. In this new age of delicate sensibilities there are less neanderthals around than you imagine
Apart from angst-ridden lefties who else is going to be outraged that a Prime Minister is prepared to take the ultimate action to protect UK citizens from terrorists who would, and have, slaughtered innocents without remorse.
I was a Labour member until last year. I respect Nick for his views and I bet you can draw up posts from 2010-2015 saying how great Ed Miliband was compared to most on here. I am also a devoted remainer who would do almost anything to stay in the Eu.
Corbun is beyond belief. An utter scumbag whose singular ability to fail when asked about his possible faults makes characters from Knives Out look like paragons of virtue. Sorry I am glad I am in a Tory-Lib Dem constituency. But the Labour Party. The party my mother was treasurer of a CLP for for 20 years The one I assumed I'd happily spend handing leaflets out for and making positive comments about on here - is an abhorrent disgrace and must be fought.
I'd have thought by now the polls have long since priced in anti-semitism, Corbyn's animosity to the UK's allies/sympathy towards its enemies, his apathy towards the union, prevarication on Brexit and his "principled" position on giving terrorists on the battlefield (or Britain's streets) the benefit of the doubt. If you don't care by now you're not going to care in 2 weeks time without something else to skip the scales.
The difference between 2017 and 2019 is likely to be how many this time realise what an economic catastrophe a Corbyn/Mcdonnell government would be and how many accept it will impact them personally, no matter where they are on the pay scale.
The almost criminally useless Philip Hammond went missing the whole campaign last time and it seemingly never occurred to May to go after Corbyn on this territory. To the attentive viewer, Neil last night dismantled Corbyn's economic argument, potentially even to those that quite like the idea of a bit spite taxation. Assuming Boris gets through his own Neil grilling without having his head blown off, if I was him I'd spend the final two weeks hammering home the gulf in economics, not Brexit and hope you can crack open some of the tribalism with the patriotism/brexit stuff.
Debate closer: "Many of you at home have voted for Labour in the past, from Harold Wilson through to Ed Miliband. And it should be said that the Labour Party in government has been responsible for many of our country's proudest successes. But let it be heard loud and clear, Corbyn is no ordinary Labour candidate for prime minister. In fact he barely deserves the title leader of the Labour Party, so much does he defile its name with his fantasy Marxist economics, failure to crack down on anti-semitism and his instinctive anti patriotism. [Followed by positive vote me message and contrast mainly on economics, with a "Get Brexit Done" thrown in].
I'd have thought Boris gets roughly what May did and Corbyn healthily more than Brown and Howard but a good distance short of 2017. So the great socialist revolution is delayed by 5 years.
"According to the BBC he said that Waspi would be paid for from Reserves, but also said there were not sufficient reserves. Separately he mentioned Government Bonds which are obviously borrowing. "
People may well think that they will get a load of money from Labour. To woun
There is a thread by Adam Langleben on Twitter about an anti-semitic member of his local party which is worth reading. The content is pretty unpleasant. For some reason I cannot post it. Labour really ought - if serious - to be coming down on this like a ton of bricks. At a bare minimum it is simply too slow and ineffective.
The issue is not whether Corbyn is himself anti-semitic but whether he is capable of the leadership necessary to stop these sorts of people joining, behaving like this and of getting rid of them when they come to light. That is the issue. And so far he seems quite incapable of doing so - and, at worst, unwilling.
The voters don't care. Apart from the Jewish ones, but there aren't enough of them for Labour to be that bothered.
And the Hindus who described Labour today as having something close to a “fascist ideology”.
I'm pretty concerned about getting Corbyn bonds in return for my utilities shareholding. What will they do about National Grid which is very big in USA?
You could argue it wasn’t a car crash but it was very bad. The anti semitism story will dog Corbyn for a few more days yet due to his non answer but perhaps his lack of understanding regarding taxes and his obstinate/clueless manner regarding the Waspi payments will be damaging. Some voters probably want to close their eyes and hope Labour can afford to treat everyone to everything but his loose understanding of economics would have concerned all but the biggest dreamers.
I’m not sure it will move the polls in a visible way but I wouldn’t be surprised if the fallout and negative headlines does stem the Labour uptick this week.
Agreed. It's a shame that the anti-semitism is dominating the media coverage. It's understandable that it is, but of more interest to voters, I think, is what he had to say about the marriage tax allowance, pensions and WASPI.
I'd have thought by now the polls have long since priced in anti-semitism, Corbyn's animosity to the UK's allies/sympathy towards its enemies, his apathy towards the union, prevarication on Brexit and his "principled" position on giving terrorists on the battlefield (or Britain's streets) the benefit of the doubt. If you don't care by now you're not going to care in 2 weeks time without something else to skip the scales.
The difference between 2017 and 2019 is likely to be how many this time realise what an economic catastrophe a Corbyn/Mcdonnell government would be and how many accept it will impact them personally, no matter where they are on the pay scale.
The almost criminally useless Philip Hammond went missing the whole campaign last time and it seemingly never occurred to May to go after Corbyn on this territory. To the attentive viewer, Neil last night dismantled Corbyn's economic argument, potentially even to those that quite like the idea of a bit spite taxation. Assuming Boris gets through his own Neil grilling without having his head blown off, if I was him I'd spend the final two weeks hammering home the gulf in economics, not Brexit and hope you can crack open some of the tribalism with the patriotism/brexit stuff.
Debate closer: "Many of you at home have voted for Labour in the past, from Harold Wilson through to Ed Miliband. And it should be said that the Labour Party in government has been responsible for many of our country's proudest successes. But let it be heard loud and clear, Corbyn is no ordinary Labour candidate for prime minister. In fact he barely deserves the title leader of the Labour Party, so much does he defile its name with his fantasy Marxist economics, failure to crack down on anti-semitism and his instinctive anti patriotism. [Followed by positive vote me message and contrast mainly on economics, with a "Get Brexit Done" thrown in].
I'd have thought Boris gets roughly what May did and Corbyn healthily more than Brown and Howard but a good distance short of 2017. So the great socialist revolution is delayed by 5 years.
Hammond went missing last time round because Lynton Crosby locked the entire Cabinet in a cupboard and ran a presidential campaign -- presumably he had not heard that David Cameron had been replaced by Theresa May. Though since Hammond had just been forced into dropping his planned NIC rise, maybe that was just as well, since then the campaign would have been about Tory tax rises.
You complain about fantasy economics from Labour, perhaps rightly, but let's see how much Boris thinks Brexit will cost; oddly, the manifesto makes no mention of the economic consequences of its flagship policy.
Hammond went missing last time round because Lynton Crosby locked the entire Cabinet in a cupboard and ran a presidential campaign -- presumably he had not heard that David Cameron had been replaced by Theresa May. Though since Hammond had just been forced into dropping his planned NIC rise, maybe that was just as well, since then the campaign would have been about Tory tax rises.
You complain about fantasy economics from Labour, perhaps rightly, but let's see how much Boris thinks Brexit will cost; oddly, the manifesto makes no mention of the economic consequences of its flagship policy.
C + I + G + X - M
Quite hard to assess Brexit impact ceteris paribus.
C: short term I'd expect passing of the WDA to cause a spike. The Brexit bounce. Long term, it's difficult to say and depends on govt policies. If low skilled immigration slows, I'd expect improved wage growth for CDEs feeding through positively to C. Impact on C from ABs depends largely what happens with "I" and other government policies:
I: as for C, a short term bounce. What happens after depends on terms of new FTA with EU and third countries. A lower tax government that believes in free trade and respects property rights stands a good chance of restoring "I".
G: Brexit component in of itself quite small. Dwarfed by other factors but on paper a mild positive.
X: remains to be seen, subject to trade deals struck with EU and third countries
I would think Mr Corbyn doing the interview before Johnson was a mistake for him.
If I were Mr Jonhson I would be thoroughly preparing for all and any questions. Mr Cummings may be useful in this task.
It is apparent from the media feedback and subsequent comments that Mr Corbyn was not suitably prepared for the interview. I wonder why this was not the case.
I predict Mr Johnson will be preparing as much as he can to avoid the similar “car crash” seen tonight. It could be a vital voter consideration.
Maybe he wasn't prepared because, how can you be?
Perhaps a question on anti Semitism may have been an obvious line with an interviewer. This should have been prepared for maybe?
I think Labour made a big mistake in assuming Mr Neil would only have used the occasion to ask about policy.
Unbelieveably, that would have been even worse. I am staggered by the effective commitment to destroy the entire financial system within the first hundred days. No-one has asked yet, will we be given free wheel barrows to carry all these hundred billion Corbyn pounds we will need for a cup of coffee. After last night you really don't need to be Jewish to be scared of Jeremy Corbyn.
Comments
https://twitter.com/mehdirhasan/status/1199440674111852546
The rest of it though was only right. May's deal was a sell out of Brexit by Remainer for Remainers. The fact Remainers in Parliament rejected it are why Boris will hopefully get a majority and enact a proper Brexit.
He is single handedly making the election a Borgon conclusion.
There was a moment after 2017 when many of the moderates, Cooper, Chucka indicated they would like to join shadow cabinet, and MCD and JC said nah, we’re sticking with our mates.
Hence the extraordinary tactical voting levels you expect. No offence but real Lib Dems are not Labour with another colour. Lib Dem and Labour are not meant to be interchangeable.
Corbyn is not a devil, and people don't believe he is. And I think he genuinely tries to be very considerate. But I also don't think he is as considerate as he thinks he is, and in the same way that Boris's folksy manner should not disguise his uglier side, Corbyn's soft spoken mannerisms should not give him a pass to waffle, dissemble or provide cover for his own inepititude because he looks and sounds reasonable.
Even we accept that Corbyn is as great as he thinks he is, the idea a journalist badgering him, even unfairly, is bullying him, is utter tripe. He'd be dealing with a biased media figure, not being bullied.
Some people are improved by high office (well, statistically it must happen occasionally). We had best hope.
There is no doubt that I am anti-Tory - particularly this ideological far right variety. I'm OK with Rory and Ken Clarke and others like them.
I am a liberal so I don't like the Harriet Harman PC authoritarian streak in Labour. I prefer the Farage approach to PCness. I'm a bit of a Victor Meldrew. "I don't believe it!"
https://twitter.com/PeterTatchell/status/1199410775481339909
The Barnsey Spread has modest levels of tactical voting compared to what I’m expecting, so bully this instead. Rabb, Redwood, Mogg all in trouble.
Barnsey is right in his analysis, anyone playing the calm controlled person in the face of Brillo’s dislike able aggression is bound to come out better. The likes of David Frost and Sophie Ridge would have won against Corbyn tonight, not failed, the difference in styles so Gimly v Legolas precision.
It’s remarkable, two election campaigns now with Corbyn upticking in the polls and Tories unable to do anything about it.
How did Corbyn do? Do we have any immediate data?
If it’s as badly as the header I predict a backlash against Labour and Corbyn in particular.
And I don't actually think Corbyn's manner is an act exactly. In the ITV debate he was definitely playing up his personal style in his 'this is a very serious matter I am concerned about' voice in answer to a few questions, but like with Boris playing up his bumbling good fella schtick, I don't think it is false so much as just being aware of what part of themselves people like, and emphasising it in a controlled way.
It's why I would give more leniency to an interviewer overdoing it, because let's not kid ourselves, our politicians will answer their own question, or answer in a way which does not address the actual point, if they are not pressed. It's the 'have something to say and say it, no matter what they ask' approach from Yes Minister. And someone overdoing the questioning is preferable to letting a politician get away with that shit, which is what a PEB is for.
I’m wondering if Labours recent hubris may be coming to an end especially considering there may be many other influential figures coming forward to condemn his apologist stance.
As far as the content though I thought he really struggled and has probably handed a week's worth of clips to his opponents.
We could be saying just the same about Boris tomorrow night and i'm sure he's having a sleepless night.
If he does the AN interview, then Experiencing A Significant Gravitas Shortfall, probably.
Not quite a ringing endorsement for Mr.Corybn.
I wonder if Labour members are regretting the choice of their Leader.
Rather, it is that the fallout from the interview is occupying just about all media space - which in turn means that it's blocking any opportunity for Labour to be selling its positive messages.
ie There is no mention anywhere prominent of Labour policies re NHS, Education, Public Sector pay, abolishing Universal Credit etc etc - all the space is being taken by "how Corbyn did in the interview".
It Barnesian thinks I'm bullying then I'll apologise and not engage with him anymore. I hope he doesn't take it that way.
https://www.theguardian.com/uk-news/2019/nov/26/police-officer-robyn-williams-sentenced-unpaid-work-possessing-child-abuse-video
Point being her sister had (I think) automatically committed an offence by sending the video, and as a police officer she had a duty not to ignore it.
Against that, there is discretion not to pursue a case of this kind, and there is a strong suggestion of bias in her prosecution. And she has an otherwise exemplary record.
I would be interested in how this affects the perception of Mr Corbyn’s trustworthiness and suitability for Prime Minister.
The coverage certainly seems damaging in all media outlets. I wonder how Labour can counteract this.
That it was impossible to answer is hardly Brillo’s fault...
I’m not sure it will move the polls in a visible way but I wouldn’t be surprised if the fallout and negative headlines does stem the Labour uptick this week.
If I were Mr Jonhson I would be thoroughly preparing for all and any questions. Mr Cummings may be useful in this task.
It is apparent from the media feedback and subsequent comments that Mr Corbyn was not suitably prepared for the interview. I wonder why this was not the case.
I predict Mr Johnson will be preparing as much as he can to avoid the similar “car crash” seen tonight. It could be a vital voter consideration.
People may well think that they will get a load of money from Labour. To woun And the Hindus who described Labour today as having something close to a “fascist ideology”.
I predict many voters will read the media coverage of this interview, even if they didn’t watch it live. It has the probability of being very damaging.
It’s a concern Mr Corbyn was not adequately prepared for the inevitable questions.
Perhaps senior figures in the Labour Party do not take the issues such as those raised very seriously.
It reminded me of that Jeremy Vine column about Boris- where he saw him turn up late to an event and "ad-lib" a wonderful bumbling but funny speech. Vine thought he was amazing - till he saw him do the same thing at another event, and realised that it was all rehearsed, even the backstage fumbling with a piece of borrowed paper to write notes on, which he then left behind.
I think Labour made a big mistake in assuming Mr Neil would only have used the occasion to ask about policy.
Who doesn't love a bit of nostalgia. *BONG*
Corbun is beyond belief. An utter scumbag whose singular ability to fail when asked about his possible faults makes characters from Knives Out look like paragons of virtue. Sorry I am glad I am in a Tory-Lib Dem constituency. But the Labour Party. The party my mother was treasurer of a CLP for for 20 years The one I assumed I'd happily spend handing leaflets out for and making positive comments about on here - is an abhorrent disgrace and must be fought.
It is a disgusting, crank sewer.
https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=XDxFPwIuAt4
https://twitter.com/christopherward/status/1199416410239311876
Over 650,000 registered on deadline day. Over 450,000 were younger voters between 18 and 34.
The difference between 2017 and 2019 is likely to be how many this time realise what an economic catastrophe a Corbyn/Mcdonnell government would be and how many accept it will impact them personally, no matter where they are on the pay scale.
The almost criminally useless Philip Hammond went missing the whole campaign last time and it seemingly never occurred to May to go after Corbyn on this territory. To the attentive viewer, Neil last night dismantled Corbyn's economic argument, potentially even to those that quite like the idea of a bit spite taxation. Assuming Boris gets through his own Neil grilling without having his head blown off, if I was him I'd spend the final two weeks hammering home the gulf in economics, not Brexit and hope you can crack open some of the tribalism with the patriotism/brexit stuff.
Debate closer: "Many of you at home have voted for Labour in the past, from Harold Wilson through to Ed Miliband. And it should be said that the Labour Party in government has been responsible for many of our country's proudest successes. But let it be heard loud and clear, Corbyn is no ordinary Labour candidate for prime minister. In fact he barely deserves the title leader of the Labour Party, so much does he defile its name with his fantasy Marxist economics, failure to crack down on anti-semitism and his instinctive anti patriotism. [Followed by positive vote me message and contrast mainly on economics, with a "Get Brexit Done" thrown in].
I'd have thought Boris gets roughly what May did and Corbyn healthily more than Brown and Howard but a good distance short of 2017. So the great socialist revolution is delayed by 5 years.
You complain about fantasy economics from Labour, perhaps rightly, but let's see how much Boris thinks Brexit will cost; oddly, the manifesto makes no mention of the economic consequences of its flagship policy.
Quite hard to assess Brexit impact ceteris paribus.
C: short term I'd expect passing of the WDA to cause a spike. The Brexit bounce. Long term, it's difficult to say and depends on govt policies. If low skilled immigration slows, I'd expect improved wage growth for CDEs feeding through positively to C. Impact on C from ABs depends largely what happens with "I" and other government policies:
I: as for C, a short term bounce. What happens after depends on terms of new FTA with EU and third countries. A lower tax government that believes in free trade and respects property rights stands a good chance of restoring "I".
G: Brexit component in of itself quite small. Dwarfed by other factors but on paper a mild positive.
X: remains to be seen, subject to trade deals struck with EU and third countries
M: as per X
Although I might remind you that Nadine Dorries is currently a minister.
This timeline is truly bizarre.