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politicalbetting.com » Blog Archive » Tonight’s Andrew Neil-Corbyn interview – this is as tough as i

SystemSystem Posts: 12,054
edited November 2019 in General

imagepoliticalbetting.com » Blog Archive » Tonight’s Andrew Neil-Corbyn interview – this is as tough as it gets

Jeremy Corbyn just gave one of the worst political performances of modern times.

Read the full story here


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Comments

  • 1st unlike Jeremy
  • 2nd like the rest of the PB late comers... ;)
  • chloechloe Posts: 308
    Second like Labour.
    .

  • vikvik Posts: 159
    Trump never apologises too.

    Apologising makes a leader look weak.
  • RobDRobD Posts: 59,583
    Fifth :(
  • Beibheirli_CBeibheirli_C Posts: 8,163
    edited November 2019
    chloe said:

    Second like Labour.

    You use Diane Abbot for counting sequences? :D:D
  • If Corbyn had apologised, the headlines tomorrow would be "Corbyn is an anti-Semite", I can literally see it now
  • This Vanilla "upgrade" is a right pain
  • Black_RookBlack_Rook Posts: 8,905
    Practically no-one who hasn't already made their mind up about Corbyn will have seen this interview. He's likely to be Prime Minister by Christmas.
  • Somebody tweeted "In his interview with Andrew Neil he came across as bored, irritable, ill-informed and unprincipled."
    It sounds to me like an accurate description :)
  • MaxPBMaxPB Posts: 38,200

    Practically no-one who hasn't already made their mind up about Corbyn will have seen this interview. He's likely to be Prime Minister by Christmas.

    This is what we should have saved the social media stunts for. Get that clip of him saying ordinary people will pay more tax viewed a few million times.
  • speedy2speedy2 Posts: 981
    edited November 2019
    The Conservatives have gotten their attack lines.
    But it's not on Bread&Butter issues, which makes the attack weak.
    Conservatives are appealing to the patriotism of the voters.
    Labour are appealing to the pockets of the voters.
    It's Self Interest vs Patriotism, who will win?
  • MarqueeMarkMarqueeMark Posts: 51,773
    Curse of the new thread: this is what Boris reduced the terror of politicos, Jeremy Paxman, to.

    An interesting watch with seven years distance. Boris saying he is going to be Paxman's campaign manager to be next PM - and Paxo's exasperation about being sidetracked - is quite wonderful.

    https://youtu.be/S4ldiXhDrHw
  • Corbyn passed 2.2m Twitter followers apparently
  • IshmaelZIshmaelZ Posts: 21,830

    If Corbyn had apologised, the headlines tomorrow would be "Corbyn is an anti-Semite", I can literally see it now

    No, because he was not being asked to apologise for being personally an anti Semite. And you mean figuratively.
  • FensterFenster Posts: 2,115
    I doubt it'll make much difference.

    Corbyn is abysmal and always has been but Labour supporters are gritty and tribal and will not let the party be humiliated.

    I still think it will only be a 25-30 majority for the Tories at best.
  • FloaterFloater Posts: 14,207
    "career endingly terrible" lets hope so
  • IshmaelZ said:

    If Corbyn had apologised, the headlines tomorrow would be "Corbyn is an anti-Semite", I can literally see it now

    No, because he was not being asked to apologise for being personally an anti Semite. And you mean figuratively.
    You know full well the Daily Mail would have framed it as such, they already imply he's anti-Semitic, they'd have a field day
  • spudgfshspudgfsh Posts: 1,450
    Fenster said:

    I doubt it'll make much difference.

    Corbyn is abysmal and always has been but Labour supporters are gritty and tribal and will not let the party be humiliated.

    I still think it will only be a 25-30 majority for the Tories at best.

    There are more than enough bits of ammunition that the Tories can use in memes and quotes.
  • speedy2speedy2 Posts: 981
    edited November 2019
    @MarqueeMark
    If Boris goes on Neil and straight off he says: "I surrender to you Andrew Neil, I'm not worthy of you" and leaves that would definitely sidetrack Neil, I don't know what the rest of the country would think though.
  • speedy2 said:

    The Conservatives have gotten their attack lines.
    But it's not on Bread&Butter issues, which makes the attack weak.
    Conservatives are appealing to the patriotism of the voters.
    Labour are appealing to the pockets of the voters.
    It's Self Interest vs Patriotism, who will win?

    Which bit of the abolition of the marriage tax allowance, increased dividend taxes and increased IHT taxes is not about the wallet of the voters?
  • Just in case anyone here didn't get it from the last thread (and no apology for the shouting) GOVERNMENT BONDS ARE BORROWING. Do any Corbynites want to disagree?
  • DavidLDavidL Posts: 53,342
    Listening to this, its just brutal. He doesn't deserve any better of course. None of them do.
  • GallowgateGallowgate Posts: 19,321

    Just in case anyone here didn't get it from the last thread (and no apology for the shouting) GOVERNMENT BONDS ARE BORROWING. Do any Corbynites want to disagree?

    It doesn’t matter. It literally doesn’t. What you don’t get is that the alternative is Boris Johnson and he’s as equally as dishonest, prejudice, and odious.
  • alex_alex_ Posts: 7,518
    humbugger said:

    speedy2 said:

    The Conservatives have gotten their attack lines.
    But it's not on Bread&Butter issues, which makes the attack weak.
    Conservatives are appealing to the patriotism of the voters.
    Labour are appealing to the pockets of the voters.
    It's Self Interest vs Patriotism, who will win?

    Which bit of the abolition of the marriage tax allowance, increased dividend taxes and increased IHT taxes is not about the wallet of the voters?
    It’s not just taxation on dividends. It’s tax on ALL investment income. Currently (excluding ISAs) the first £1000 of ‘normal’ investment income is tax free.
  • Black_RookBlack_Rook Posts: 8,905
    humbugger said:

    speedy2 said:

    The Conservatives have gotten their attack lines.
    But it's not on Bread&Butter issues, which makes the attack weak.
    Conservatives are appealing to the patriotism of the voters.
    Labour are appealing to the pockets of the voters.
    It's Self Interest vs Patriotism, who will win?

    Which bit of the abolition of the marriage tax allowance, increased dividend taxes and increased IHT taxes is not about the wallet of the voters?
    Depends if people notice what's being taken away as well as what's being given - bearing in mind that nearly all the wavering Labour Leavers won't be subject to IHT or have shares, whereas sums like the WASPI bribe are very simple to understand and very large.

    I'm not convinced that they will.
  • oxfordsimonoxfordsimon Posts: 5,840

    IshmaelZ said:

    If Corbyn had apologised, the headlines tomorrow would be "Corbyn is an anti-Semite", I can literally see it now

    No, because he was not being asked to apologise for being personally an anti Semite. And you mean figuratively.
    You know full well the Daily Mail would have framed it as such, they already imply he's anti-Semitic, they'd have a field day
    If you spend your time with anti-Semites - celebrating them, if you spend your time working to stop your friends who have expressed clear anti-Semitic sentiments from being held accountable for their actions, if you share your Race and Faith policy launch platform with people who have been clearly anti-Semitic - what conclusion should one draw?

    That Corbyn doesn't care that others are anti-Semitic and won't take decisive action against them? That much seems beyond doubt.

    That Corbyn doesn't actually believe that what everyone else sees as anti-Semitic is truly anti-Semitic? That certainly seems to reflect his world view

    Is he an anti-Semite? Possibly. Possibly not.

    Has he done anywhere near enough to tackle the issue within the party he leads? Absolutely not.

    Should he say sorry for his role in all this? Absolutely
  • MaxPBMaxPB Posts: 38,200

    Just in case anyone here didn't get it from the last thread (and no apology for the shouting) GOVERNMENT BONDS ARE BORROWING. Do any Corbynites want to disagree?

    It doesn’t matter. It literally doesn’t. What you don’t get is that the alternative is Boris Johnson and he’s as equally as dishonest, prejudice, and odious.
    You really think Bozza is an anti-Semite?

  • Chris Rose
    @ArchRose90
    ·
    1h
    Breaking: Hezbollah & Hamas have announced that they will lay a wreath for Corbyn after that car crash interview with Andrew Neil. #andrewneilinterviews
  • Ave_itAve_it Posts: 2,411
    Fenster said:

    I doubt it'll make much difference.

    Corbyn is abysmal and always has been but Labour supporters are gritty and tribal and will not let the party be humiliated.

    I still think it will only be a 25-30 majority for the Tories at best.

    We'll take the 25-30 majority!

    Could still be a CORBYNISTA surge!


  • IshmaelZ said:

    If Corbyn had apologised, the headlines tomorrow would be "Corbyn is an anti-Semite", I can literally see it now

    No, because he was not being asked to apologise for being personally an anti Semite. And you mean figuratively.
    You know full well the Daily Mail would have framed it as such, they already imply he's anti-Semitic, they'd have a field day
    If you spend your time with anti-Semites - celebrating them, if you spend your time working to stop your friends who have expressed clear anti-Semitic sentiments from being held accountable for their actions, if you share your Race and Faith policy launch platform with people who have been clearly anti-Semitic - what conclusion should one draw?

    That Corbyn doesn't care that others are anti-Semitic and won't take decisive action against them? That much seems beyond doubt.

    That Corbyn doesn't actually believe that what everyone else sees as anti-Semitic is truly anti-Semitic? That certainly seems to reflect his world view

    Is he an anti-Semite? Possibly. Possibly not.

    Has he done anywhere near enough to tackle the issue within the party he leads? Absolutely not.

    Should he say sorry for his role in all this? Absolutely
    But the point is, he already has - and he's still being attacked for it.

    This issue isn't going to go away - you either believe he's an anti-Semite or he isn't. No amount of apologising is going to change that, it's really that simple.
  • GallowgateGallowgate Posts: 19,321
    MaxPB said:

    Just in case anyone here didn't get it from the last thread (and no apology for the shouting) GOVERNMENT BONDS ARE BORROWING. Do any Corbynites want to disagree?

    It doesn’t matter. It literally doesn’t. What you don’t get is that the alternative is Boris Johnson and he’s as equally as dishonest, prejudice, and odious.
    You really think Bozza is an anti-Semite?
    That’s not what I said...?
  • Black_RookBlack_Rook Posts: 8,905
    Floater said:

    "career endingly terrible" lets hope so

    Afraid not.
    Fenster said:

    I doubt it'll make much difference.

    Corbyn is abysmal and always has been but Labour supporters are gritty and tribal and will not let the party be humiliated.

    I still think it will only be a 25-30 majority for the Tories at best.

    Pretty much, plus the voters will appreciate the bribes. Probably a Hung Parliament.
  • SandyRentoolSandyRentool Posts: 21,873
    Corbyn was very poor with Neil.

    However I don't expect Bozo to be any better. Hopefully Eddie Mair will be briefing Neil on a few potential lines of questioning.
  • We'll see what the polls do - but I highly doubt this makes any difference. Just makes me more depressed in a way at the low bar of our politicians.
  • Curse of the new thread: this is what Boris reduced the terror of politicos, Jeremy Paxman, to.

    An interesting watch with seven years distance. Boris saying he is going to be Paxman's campaign manager to be next PM - and Paxo's exasperation about being sidetracked - is quite wonderful.

    https://youtu.be/S4ldiXhDrHw

    Boris essentially ended Paxo as the ‘terrifying interviewer’ showing how to disarm his attacks. Not sure he will get the better of Neil.
  • ByronicByronic Posts: 3,578
    Fpt for DavidL


    ‘It's far worse than that. If Corbyn won many, many tens of billions of funds would leave the UK the next morning before he could get McDonnell into number 11. Sterling would tank. Investment would cease. Many shares set for nationalisation would become untradable. It would be such a dislocation that the stress testing of our banks would not be adequate. It really doesn't bear thinking about.’


    +++++


    Of course you’re right. Anyone with a brain can see it. McDonnell has half admitted it, saying there might be capital controls etc



    ‘Jeremy Corbyn: It's right to plan for run on pound’ http://www.bbc.co.uk/news/uk-politics-41393021



    So how come apparently intelligent Labour supporters CAN’T see this? There are a few explanations



    1 they’re in a strange denial

    2 they don’t care, socialism is worth it, but they can’t admit this, so they lie

    3 they’re not intelligent at all. They’re weirdly dumb



    Probably all 3 are at work but I wonder if option 3 is the best explanation
  • MaxPBMaxPB Posts: 38,200

    MaxPB said:

    Just in case anyone here didn't get it from the last thread (and no apology for the shouting) GOVERNMENT BONDS ARE BORROWING. Do any Corbynites want to disagree?

    It doesn’t matter. It literally doesn’t. What you don’t get is that the alternative is Boris Johnson and he’s as equally as dishonest, prejudice, and odious.
    You really think Bozza is an anti-Semite?
    That’s not what I said...?
    Well you said he's equally blah, blah. Personally I don't think Bozza is any kind of prejudiced.
  • speedy2speedy2 Posts: 981
    edited November 2019
    @humbugger
    Labour is outspending the Conservatives by 45 times in campaign promises.
    Even Osborne relaxed austerity temporarily in the run up to the 2015 election, but this time the number of unemployed since the last election has increased to the highest since December 2013.
    https://tradingeconomics.com/united-kingdom/unemployed-persons
    The Conservatives, unlike 2015 and 2017, are going into an election with the economy in bad shape, they need to promise voters better times.
  • Just in case anyone here didn't get it from the last thread (and no apology for the shouting) GOVERNMENT BONDS ARE BORROWING. Do any Corbynites want to disagree?

    The strange thing is, Corbyn could have suggested that the return on capital of, say, utilities companies, exceeds (almost by definition) the amount payable by government on its bonds. But he didn't.
  • GallowgateGallowgate Posts: 19,321
    MaxPB said:

    MaxPB said:

    Just in case anyone here didn't get it from the last thread (and no apology for the shouting) GOVERNMENT BONDS ARE BORROWING. Do any Corbynites want to disagree?

    It doesn’t matter. It literally doesn’t. What you don’t get is that the alternative is Boris Johnson and he’s as equally as dishonest, prejudice, and odious.
    You really think Bozza is an anti-Semite?
    That’s not what I said...?
    Well you said he's equally blah, blah. Personally I don't think Bozza is any kind of prejudiced.
    Letter boxes. Bum boys. The list is endless.

    You’re just as bad as the Corbynistas.
  • SandyRentoolSandyRentool Posts: 21,873
    MaxPB said:

    Just in case anyone here didn't get it from the last thread (and no apology for the shouting) GOVERNMENT BONDS ARE BORROWING. Do any Corbynites want to disagree?

    It doesn’t matter. It literally doesn’t. What you don’t get is that the alternative is Boris Johnson and he’s as equally as dishonest, prejudice, and odious.
    You really think Bozza is an anti-Semite?
    He's just a bog-standard racist.
  • FoxyFoxy Posts: 47,777

    Just in case anyone here didn't get it from the last thread (and no apology for the shouting) GOVERNMENT BONDS ARE BORROWING. Do any Corbynites want to disagree?

    It doesn’t matter. It literally doesn’t. What you don’t get is that the alternative is Boris Johnson and he’s as equally as dishonest, prejudice, and odious.
    Quite right, and the truth is that a Labour majority government is near impossible. The chance of gaining the 60 seats net for a tiny absolute majority is minuscule. A Labour minority government would not be able to implement a McDonnell budget red in tooth and claw. There is nothing to be scared of.

    I think Lab 215 seats is about right on current polling with a modest Con majority.
  • FloaterFloater Posts: 14,207
    Just watched it - absolute car crash

    "why does he give our enemies the benefit of the doubt"
  • tlg86tlg86 Posts: 26,023

    MaxPB said:

    MaxPB said:

    Just in case anyone here didn't get it from the last thread (and no apology for the shouting) GOVERNMENT BONDS ARE BORROWING. Do any Corbynites want to disagree?

    It doesn’t matter. It literally doesn’t. What you don’t get is that the alternative is Boris Johnson and he’s as equally as dishonest, prejudice, and odious.
    You really think Bozza is an anti-Semite?
    That’s not what I said...?
    Well you said he's equally blah, blah. Personally I don't think Bozza is any kind of prejudiced.
    Letter boxes. Bum boys. The list is endless.

    You’re just as bad as the Corbynistas.
    If the anti-semitism in the Labour Party was restricted to members, even their leader, making some rude comments about the appearance of Orthodox Jews, it would be nearly as big a story.

    That doesn't excuse Johnson for making those comments, but there is a world of difference between his words and Corbyn's inaction.
  • FloaterFloater Posts: 14,207
    That man can NOT be allowed anywhere near power.
  • SandyRentoolSandyRentool Posts: 21,873

    Just in case anyone here didn't get it from the last thread (and no apology for the shouting) GOVERNMENT BONDS ARE BORROWING. Do any Corbynites want to disagree?

    The strange thing is, Corbyn could have suggested that the return on capital of, say, utilities companies, exceeds (almost by definition) the amount payable by government on its bonds. But he didn't.
    He tried to say it, but garbled his answer.
  • Floater said:

    That man can NOT be allowed anywhere near power.

    Who? Boris?
  • MaxPBMaxPB Posts: 38,200

    MaxPB said:

    MaxPB said:

    Just in case anyone here didn't get it from the last thread (and no apology for the shouting) GOVERNMENT BONDS ARE BORROWING. Do any Corbynites want to disagree?

    It doesn’t matter. It literally doesn’t. What you don’t get is that the alternative is Boris Johnson and he’s as equally as dishonest, prejudice, and odious.
    You really think Bozza is an anti-Semite?
    That’s not what I said...?
    Well you said he's equally blah, blah. Personally I don't think Bozza is any kind of prejudiced.
    Letter boxes. Bum boys. The list is endless.

    You’re just as bad as the Corbynistas.
    I think he likes to turn a phrase and the letter boxes comment was very fair. The burka has no place in British society and they look ridiculous.
  • TomsToms Posts: 2,478
    edited November 2019
    Andrew Neil: well done.

    As I seem to recall, a few threads ago someone said that antisemitism in Labour was limited to just a few people. Well then that would make it easy to deal with: just kick the bu**ers out.

    Trouble is, if Corbyn loses too many votes by his, umm, flexible attitudes towards Brexit and antisemitism we may get the shallow games playing "showman" (thanks Beibheirli_C) Boris.
  • JonathanJonathan Posts: 21,394
    PBS editorial standards somewhat lacking in this post.

    Corbyn may very well have tanked with Neil, but a bunch of dodgy tweets (including Leave.Eu FFS) and a ripped off clip somewhat undermines the point.
  • timmotimmo Posts: 1,469

    Curse of the new thread: this is what Boris reduced the terror of politicos, Jeremy Paxman, to.

    An interesting watch with seven years distance. Boris saying he is going to be Paxman's campaign manager to be next PM - and Paxo's exasperation about being sidetracked - is quite wonderful.

    https://youtu.be/S4ldiXhDrHw

    Kind was standing twenty yards from there when that interview took place...it was at the height of Boris mania
  • FloaterFloater Posts: 14,207


    Chris Rose
    @ArchRose90
    ·
    1h
    Breaking: Hezbollah & Hamas have announced that they will lay a wreath for Corbyn after that car crash interview with Andrew Neil. #andrewneilinterviews

    LOL
  • Black_RookBlack_Rook Posts: 8,905
    Floater said:

    That man can NOT be allowed anywhere near power.

    Not up to us, up to the electorate. And the electorate likes free stuff.
  • alex_alex_ Posts: 7,518

    Just in case anyone here didn't get it from the last thread (and no apology for the shouting) GOVERNMENT BONDS ARE BORROWING. Do any Corbynites want to disagree?

    The strange thing is, Corbyn could have suggested that the return on capital of, say, utilities companies, exceeds (almost by definition) the amount payable by government on its bonds. But he didn't.
    He tried to say it, but garbled his answer.
    Doesn't really work as an answer when he's talking about using Bonds for WASPI though...

    And a fairly fundamental overall flaw, is that one of the main arguments given for nationalisation is to end the "rip off of privatised companies" - in other words run them at a significantly lower return on capital.

  • MaxPBMaxPB Posts: 38,200

    Just in case anyone here didn't get it from the last thread (and no apology for the shouting) GOVERNMENT BONDS ARE BORROWING. Do any Corbynites want to disagree?

    The strange thing is, Corbyn could have suggested that the return on capital of, say, utilities companies, exceeds (almost by definition) the amount payable by government on its bonds. But he didn't.
    The leveraged buy out. It's served Private Equity so well. No bankrupt companies at all when the bonds need to be redeemed, none at all.
  • speedy2 said:

    @humbugger
    Labour is outspending the Conservatives by 45 times in campaign promises.
    Even Osborne relaxed austerity temporarily in the run up to the 2015 election, but this time the number of unemployed since the last election has increased to the highest since December 2013.
    https://tradingeconomics.com/united-kingdom/unemployed-persons
    The Conservatives, unlike 2015 and 2017, are going into an election with the economy in bad shape, they need to promise voters better times.

    What? The link you give says that the unemployment rate is at its lowest for 45 years. The number of people unemployed has to be divided by the total population to be able to make valid comparisons.
  • DavidLDavidL Posts: 53,342

    Just in case anyone here didn't get it from the last thread (and no apology for the shouting) GOVERNMENT BONDS ARE BORROWING. Do any Corbynites want to disagree?

    The strange thing is, Corbyn could have suggested that the return on capital of, say, utilities companies, exceeds (almost by definition) the amount payable by government on its bonds. But he didn't.
    You think that these companies would remain profitable in public ownership? Well, its a view.
  • alex_alex_ Posts: 7,518
    MaxPB said:

    Just in case anyone here didn't get it from the last thread (and no apology for the shouting) GOVERNMENT BONDS ARE BORROWING. Do any Corbynites want to disagree?

    The strange thing is, Corbyn could have suggested that the return on capital of, say, utilities companies, exceeds (almost by definition) the amount payable by government on its bonds. But he didn't.
    The leveraged buy out. It's served Private Equity so well. No bankrupt companies at all when the bonds need to be redeemed, none at all.
    I think they'll be irredeemable bonds...

  • WhisperingOracleWhisperingOracle Posts: 8,850
    edited November 2019
    "Leave.EU

    @LeaveEUOfficial
    · 2h
    WATCH | Corbyn exposed on the anti-Semitic filth he's let fester in his party. Corbyn evades and squirms and refuses to apologise to Britain's Jewish population - utterly disgraceful! Bravo to @afneil - a proper broadcaster who nails it every time #andrewneilinterviews"

    Staggering. Is this the same Leave.EU that ran a series of blatantly antisemitic montages about George Soros being the "powerful elite" , and the "man pulling the strings" behind opposition to Brexit going through ?

    https://inews.co.uk/news/politics/brexit/leave-eu-accused-of-anti-semitism-george-soros-194325
  • MaxPBMaxPB Posts: 38,200
    alex_ said:

    Just in case anyone here didn't get it from the last thread (and no apology for the shouting) GOVERNMENT BONDS ARE BORROWING. Do any Corbynites want to disagree?

    The strange thing is, Corbyn could have suggested that the return on capital of, say, utilities companies, exceeds (almost by definition) the amount payable by government on its bonds. But he didn't.
    He tried to say it, but garbled his answer.
    Doesn't really work as an answer when he's talking about using Bonds for WASPI though...

    And a fairly fundamental overall flaw, is that one of the main arguments given for nationalisation is to end the "rip off of privatised companies" - in other words run them at a significantly lower return on capital.

    Doesn't work for broadband either given that it will be free so there will be RoI.
  • speedy2speedy2 Posts: 981
    edited November 2019
    I think Boris will be hit by Neil for his personal stuff, the Brexit delay, his on and off vote for May's old deal, the Irish sea customs, and for the failure of the Government on public services in the past 9 years.
    A version of what he did to Sturgeon.
    Boris will need to pull all the tricks he can if he is going to fight Neil and survive.
  • timmotimmo Posts: 1,469
    Let's hope we dont wake up to this type of speech on Dec 13


    https://youtu.be/nz6jqu6Cy4w
  • FloaterFloater Posts: 14,207
    I wonder whether those same people saying this changes nothing will be saying the same thing if Boris has anything like as bad a mauling
  • MarqueeMarkMarqueeMark Posts: 51,773
    edited November 2019
    alex_ said:

    MaxPB said:

    Just in case anyone here didn't get it from the last thread (and no apology for the shouting) GOVERNMENT BONDS ARE BORROWING. Do any Corbynites want to disagree?

    The strange thing is, Corbyn could have suggested that the return on capital of, say, utilities companies, exceeds (almost by definition) the amount payable by government on its bonds. But he didn't.
    The leveraged buy out. It's served Private Equity so well. No bankrupt companies at all when the bonds need to be redeemed, none at all.
    I think they'll be irredeemable bonds...

    They can be redeemed for Labour Party merchandising.
  • Just in case anyone here didn't get it from the last thread (and no apology for the shouting) GOVERNMENT BONDS ARE BORROWING. Do any Corbynites want to disagree?

    It doesn’t matter. It literally doesn’t. What you don’t get is that the alternative is Boris Johnson and he’s as equally as dishonest, prejudice, and odious.
    Half a trillion extra borrowing doesn't matter?!? Will you enjoy penury?
  • Floater said:

    That man can NOT be allowed anywhere near power.

    Not up to us, up to the electorate. And the electorate likes free stuff.
    Bread and Circuses
  • Floater said:

    I wonder whether those same people saying this changes nothing will be saying the same thing if Boris has anything like as bad a mauling

    Johnson had an absolutely terrible debate and it changed nothing.
  • ByronicByronic Posts: 3,578
    Jonathan said:

    PBS editorial standards somewhat lacking in this post.

    Corbyn may very well have tanked with Neil, but a bunch of dodgy tweets (including Leave.Eu FFS) and a ripped off clip somewhat undermines the point.

    Yes an odd choice of tweets to support the thesis, especially when there are hundreds from more enlightening accounts. Eg Kevin Maguire, the loyal Labourite, who admitted the Corbyn was ‘rinsed’
  • FloaterFloater Posts: 14,207
    DavidL said:

    Just in case anyone here didn't get it from the last thread (and no apology for the shouting) GOVERNMENT BONDS ARE BORROWING. Do any Corbynites want to disagree?

    The strange thing is, Corbyn could have suggested that the return on capital of, say, utilities companies, exceeds (almost by definition) the amount payable by government on its bonds. But he didn't.
    You think that these companies would remain profitable in public ownership? Well, its a view.
    Socialists ALWAYS claim that next time it will work.

    Shame about the lives destroyed in the meantime.
  • Everyone does know that bonds have to pay the interest and then repay the initial investment, right?
  • MaxPB said:

    alex_ said:

    Just in case anyone here didn't get it from the last thread (and no apology for the shouting) GOVERNMENT BONDS ARE BORROWING. Do any Corbynites want to disagree?

    The strange thing is, Corbyn could have suggested that the return on capital of, say, utilities companies, exceeds (almost by definition) the amount payable by government on its bonds. But he didn't.
    He tried to say it, but garbled his answer.
    Doesn't really work as an answer when he's talking about using Bonds for WASPI though...

    And a fairly fundamental overall flaw, is that one of the main arguments given for nationalisation is to end the "rip off of privatised companies" - in other words run them at a significantly lower return on capital.

    Doesn't work for broadband either given that it will be free so there will be RoI.
    I certainly don't think so. 1 or 2% is nothing like the effect on investment that poor management can have.

    But Corbyn does, and he can't even make the case for it.

    Indeed, I'm sure he thinks that a provider in public ownership would be able to add additional value by virtue of that fact.
  • alex_alex_ Posts: 7,518
    speedy2 said:

    I think Boris will be hit by Neil for his personal stuff, the Brexit delay, his on and off vote for May's old deal, the Irish sea customs, and for the failure of the Government on public services in the past 9 years.
    A version of what he did to Sturgeon.
    Boris will need to pull all the tricks he can if he is going to fight Neil and survive.

    But how much will be much different to what he experienced in the Tory leadership contest? Albeit he will be playing to a different and wider audience.

  • Black_RookBlack_Rook Posts: 8,905

    Floater said:

    That man can NOT be allowed anywhere near power.

    Not up to us, up to the electorate. And the electorate likes free stuff.
    Bread and Circuses
    WASPI bungs and free broadband.
  • AndrewAndrew Posts: 2,900

    Everyone does know that bonds have to pay the interest and then repay the initial investment, right?

    Just issue ever more bonds, I'm sure that'll work.
  • WhisperingOracleWhisperingOracle Posts: 8,850
    edited November 2019
    The Telegraph hasn't apologised for their Soros-runs-Remain front page yet too, I see.
  • MexicanpeteMexicanpete Posts: 27,551
    I am sure Boris will do OK with the one-on-one interview.

    Andrew Neil really is an excellent interviewer and takes no prisoners. With the BBC's recent track record of editing Johnson's gaffes, I suspect Neil will be substituted for Zoe Ball.
  • speedy2speedy2 Posts: 981
    edited November 2019
    @Fysics_Teacher
    The link I gave has the number of unemployed at above 1.2 million and rising fast.
    Here it is again:
    https://tradingeconomics.com/united-kingdom/unemployed-persons
    The number of unemployed has risen by more than 400 thousand since the 2017 election and it's at it's highest since December 2013.
    Also another tracker is consumer confidence, as you can see apart from 1997 everytime it's been below -10 in the election the Government loses it's majority, latest figure is -14.
    https://tradingeconomics.com/united-kingdom/consumer-confidence
  • IshmaelZIshmaelZ Posts: 21,830

    Everyone does know that bonds have to pay the interest and then repay the initial investment, right?

    Not always, I think some War Loan was irredeemable.
  • My word, why the hell are we bothering with any of these multi leader debates.

    Andrew Neil is just a master at work, leave him to grill them.
  • ChrisChris Posts: 11,688
    Jonathan said:

    PBS editorial standards somewhat lacking in this post.

    Corbyn may very well have tanked with Neil, but a bunch of dodgy tweets (including Leave.Eu FFS) and a ripped off clip somewhat undermines the point.

    I can't remember seeing another unsigned header here.
  • MaxPBMaxPB Posts: 38,200
    IshmaelZ said:

    Everyone does know that bonds have to pay the interest and then repay the initial investment, right?

    Not always, I think some War Loan was irredeemable.
    Didn't Osborne call time on those a few years ago?
  • CyclefreeCyclefree Posts: 25,269
    edited November 2019
    From the Tory party tonight to me on the WASPI issue:-

    "Thank you for contacting us about the State Pension Age.
    Since the Conservatives came into Government in 2010, we have provided greater security, choice and dignity for people in retirement, while also ensuring that the system is sustainable for future generations.
    In 1995, the then-Government decided that it was going to make the State Pension Age the same for men and women, as a long-overdue move towards gender equality. Raising the State Pension Age in line with life expectancy changes has been the policy of successive administrations over many years.
    The State Pension Age has been equalised in a gradual way by governments of all colours – Conservative, Labour and Coalition. When the rate of change was accelerated in 2011, nearly six million letters were sent out by the Department for Work and Pensions to inform people, and more than £1 billion has been provided to ensure no woman retired more than 18 months later than originally planned in 1995.
    Over three million women stand to receive an average of £550 more per year by 2030 as a result of the recent reforms Conservatives have made to the State Pension – and we are providing a clearer, sustainable system for the future."
  • BarnesianBarnesian Posts: 8,357

    Just in case anyone here didn't get it from the last thread (and no apology for the shouting) GOVERNMENT BONDS ARE BORROWING. Do any Corbynites want to disagree?

    I think the distinction is that it is borrowing against an asset (a train set) rather than just borrowing willy-nilly. [Is willy-nilly PC? I can't keep up these days]
  • alex_alex_ Posts: 7,518

    Just in case anyone here didn't get it from the last thread (and no apology for the shouting) GOVERNMENT BONDS ARE BORROWING. Do any Corbynites want to disagree?

    It doesn’t matter. It literally doesn’t. What you don’t get is that the alternative is Boris Johnson and he’s as equally as dishonest, prejudice, and odious.
    Half a trillion extra borrowing doesn't matter?!? Will you enjoy penury?
    I think the borrowing stuff struggles to get through when Labour supporters are busy sharing posts about the Tories doubling the national debt to £1.9trillion since 2010. It's the same argument they give on WASPI - "well if we could find the money to bail out the banks...". "Tories have delivered 'bad' borrowing which gave us no investment and endless austerity. Our borrowing will be 'good', investing in the future of the country".

    The arguments about deficit versus debt, the fact that debt from bailing out the banks was a direct contributor to the subsequent hated austerity etc etc, are too nuanced to make easily.
  • Blimey, if the Guardian says Corbyn struggled he must have had a shocker.
  • IshmaelZIshmaelZ Posts: 21,830
    Turns out tweets need expert curating after all. Bring back ScottP.
  • saddenedsaddened Posts: 2,245

    Everyone does know that bonds have to pay the interest and then repay the initial investment, right?

    We do, a certain parties team, not so much.
  • timmotimmo Posts: 1,469
    John McDonnells speech at next years labour conference after realising we have no money..

    https://youtu.be/RpKz54bxXuU
  • Black_RookBlack_Rook Posts: 8,905

    I am sure Boris will do OK with the one-on-one interview.

    Andrew Neil really is an excellent interviewer and takes no prisoners. With the BBC's recent track record of editing Johnson's gaffes, I suspect Neil will be substituted for Zoe Ball.

    Would be good practice for when Boris does next year's Strictly.
  • tlg86 said:

    MaxPB said:

    MaxPB said:

    Just in case anyone here didn't get it from the last thread (and no apology for the shouting) GOVERNMENT BONDS ARE BORROWING. Do any Corbynites want to disagree?

    It doesn’t matter. It literally doesn’t. What you don’t get is that the alternative is Boris Johnson and he’s as equally as dishonest, prejudice, and odious.
    You really think Bozza is an anti-Semite?
    That’s not what I said...?
    Well you said he's equally blah, blah. Personally I don't think Bozza is any kind of prejudiced.
    Letter boxes. Bum boys. The list is endless.

    You’re just as bad as the Corbynistas.
    If the anti-semitism in the Labour Party was restricted to members, even their leader, making some rude comments about the appearance of Orthodox Jews, it would be nearly as big a story.

    That doesn't excuse Johnson for making those comments, but there is a world of difference between his words and Corbyn's inaction.
    I am struggling to see how saying racist and offensive things yourself can be considered less worthy of censure than failing to stop other people from saying racist and offensive things. Also, some of the comments on here about Muslims are pretty shocking, an illustration of how deep rooted Islamophobia is in this country, especially on the Right. Roll on the MRP tomorrow, hopefully discussion of that will produce more light and less heat.
  • DavidLDavidL Posts: 53,342
    I think the most damaging bit was probably the person on £14k a year who would have to pay an additional £400 a year in tax. The example of someone married who receives modest dividend income was of course carefully chosen but it was a scenario that millions will be able to relate to. I am sure that the Tories will use that heavily.
    His ignorance about what proportion the very well paid in tax already showed he had no concept about the consequences for his plans or how they would simply fall apart.
  • alex_alex_ Posts: 7,518
    IshmaelZ said:

    Everyone does know that bonds have to pay the interest and then repay the initial investment, right?

    Not always, I think some War Loan was irredeemable.
    Yep, they will be tradeable but irredeemable. And as far as the nationalisation funding bonds are concerned, their will be compulsion in their initial acquisition (in return for compulsory share purchase)
  • speedy2 said:

    @Fysics_Teacher
    The link I gave has the number of unemployed at above 1.2 million and rising fast.
    Here it is again:
    https://tradingeconomics.com/united-kingdom/unemployed-persons
    The number of unemployed has risen by more than 400 thousand since the 2017 election and it's at it's highest since December 2013.
    Also another tracker is consumer confidence, as you can see apart from 1997 everytime it's been below -10 in the election the Government loses it's majority, latest figure is -14.
    https://tradingeconomics.com/united-kingdom/consumer-confidence

    Speedy, I can't square that with this ONS data which suggests that the number of unemployed people, along with the proportion of the workforce, is falling

    https://www.ons.gov.uk/employmentandlabourmarket/peoplenotinwork/unemployment/timeseries/mgsc/unem
This discussion has been closed.