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politicalbetting.com » Blog Archive » Another man in his late ’70s puts his hat into the ring for WH

SystemSystem Posts: 11,683
edited November 2019 in General

imagepoliticalbetting.com » Blog Archive » Another man in his late ’70s puts his hat into the ring for WH2020

New York Times

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  • Options
    JonathanJonathan Posts: 20,901
    Can’t argue with Bloomberg on Trump, like the effort to defeat “Britain Trump” here.
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    camelcamel Posts: 815
    Third to the party?

    Never the cool kid who's fashionably late.
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    camelcamel Posts: 815
    A stout yeoman of Kent assists a doughty man of York in keeping out the antipodean hordes. 11/10 the draw.
  • Options
    Ave_itAve_it Posts: 2,411
    Top 20 like Watford!
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    5th like Labour in some seats
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    kle4kle4 Posts: 91,750
    edited November 2019
    I had £2 on Bloomberg in 2016. Not doing that mistake again.
  • Options
    kle4kle4 Posts: 91,750
    MaxPB said:

    kle4 said:

    MaxPB said:

    RobD said:

    geoffw said:

    BluerBlue said:

    nico67 said:

    I wonder whether Damian Lyons Lowe from Survation are doing some polling including a question on the Waspi women . Going by his tweet he thinks this is likely to hurt the Tories.

    Will the question include the information that it will cost the public an extra £58 billion in uncosted borrowing and / or taxes? Because that seems like a relevant piece of context, no?
    Are there some workings behind the £58bn?
    Number of women affected times the average amount of compensation.
    Wow thanks for that insight!

    I was rather wondering if anyone has the stats on numbers impacted and avereage amount per person.
    £15,380 average, £31,300 maximum. A huge bung.

    https://news.sky.com/story/general-election-2019-labours-58bn-pledge-to-right-waspi-injustice-11869005
    Might we see the biggest gender divide this election?
    Always interesting at how much more the young voter is pro Labour than the male one.
    Labour are about to test that theory to destruction in the 25-34 age range unless they u-turn on the £58bn. I haven't seen my non-politically inclined friends this annoyed by a single policy in a very long time. Until now they just thought Corbyn was a joke with his free broadband and oddball ideas, now they think he's going to tax all of them to pay for older wealthy women who want to retire early.
    I think most of that range as so solidly Labour they won't be going anywhere, which is why they feel able to make such an unfair policy in the first place.
    Yes, the Nick Timothy thought the same about old people and decided to introduce the idiotic dementia tax. That turned out extremely well.
    He suggested it, May decided.

    And you're right, sometimes a policy will get such a push back, but I don't think this one will, for all I am very mad about it. To who will Labour inclined voters mad about it go? The LDs are offering the same thing in their manifesto, though I've not heard what the amount would be suggested to be, presumably the same. The Greens' plan is more focused on their Universal Basic Income idea with a focus on the WASPI women, but promises additional ways to compensate them as well. BXP promise to review the position of those women too.

    So are young people who were going to turn out for Labour not going to turn out for them on this issue, when the Jezziah is busy saying what a moral duty it is?
  • Options
    kle4kle4 Posts: 91,750

    BTW I see the LDs have gotten their audio version of the manifesto out, sadly not narrated by Jo Swinson herself. Only ones who have done this so far I think.
  • Options
    ByronicByronic Posts: 3,578
    I’ve recently spent some time with a large smattering of Americans, left and right.

    They all agreed that the age of the candidates is a real issue. They all despaired of it, and wanted change. Reps and Dems.

    If this is a widespread feeling someone like Buttigieg has an in-built advantage.
  • Options
    kle4kle4 Posts: 91,750
    Great Corbyn quote on the Labour site

    "When Labour wins elections, it is the people and not the powerful who win"

    Yes, when the Tories win elections the people do not win, even though they've voted for it. Corbyn knows the people don't want it even when they say they do, it's about his respect for the people.
  • Options
    geoffwgeoffw Posts: 8,156
    kle4 said:

    Great Corbyn quote on the Labour site

    "When Labour wins elections, it is the people and not the powerful who win"

    Yes, when the Tories win elections the people do not win, even though they've voted for it. Corbyn knows the people don't want it even when they say they do, it's about his respect for the people.

    Ooooh Jerem . . .
  • Options
    LostPasswordLostPassword Posts: 15,263
    Byronic said:

    I’ve recently spent some time with a large smattering of Americans, left and right.

    They all agreed that the age of the candidates is a real issue. They all despaired of it, and wanted change. Reps and Dems.

    If this is a widespread feeling someone like Buttigieg has an in-built advantage.

    What happened to the generation born in the fifties and sixties, who should now be in their fifties and sixties?
  • Options
    kle4kle4 Posts: 91,750

    Byronic said:

    I’ve recently spent some time with a large smattering of Americans, left and right.

    They all agreed that the age of the candidates is a real issue. They all despaired of it, and wanted change. Reps and Dems.

    If this is a widespread feeling someone like Buttigieg has an in-built advantage.

    What happened to the generation born in the fifties and sixties, who should now be in their fifties and sixties?
    Probably too busy arguing about pension changes to run for president?
  • Options

    Byronic said:

    I’ve recently spent some time with a large smattering of Americans, left and right.

    They all agreed that the age of the candidates is a real issue. They all despaired of it, and wanted change. Reps and Dems.

    If this is a widespread feeling someone like Buttigieg has an in-built advantage.

    What happened to the generation born in the fifties and sixties, who should now be in their fifties and sixties?
    John Edwards says 'hi'!
  • Options
    ByronicByronic Posts: 3,578
    kle4 said:

    Byronic said:

    I’ve recently spent some time with a large smattering of Americans, left and right.

    They all agreed that the age of the candidates is a real issue. They all despaired of it, and wanted change. Reps and Dems.

    If this is a widespread feeling someone like Buttigieg has an in-built advantage.

    What happened to the generation born in the fifties and sixties, who should now be in their fifties and sixties?
    Probably too busy arguing about pension changes to run for president?
    America is weirdly gerontocratic, tho. It’s worse than China now.

    So much is going wrong with America it’s easy to despair. But then you watch Rick and Morty and you think: a country that can make TV this sharp and funny might easily bounce back.
  • Options
    mattmatt Posts: 3,789

    Byronic said:

    I’ve recently spent some time with a large smattering of Americans, left and right.

    They all agreed that the age of the candidates is a real issue. They all despaired of it, and wanted change. Reps and Dems.

    If this is a widespread feeling someone like Buttigieg has an in-built advantage.

    What happened to the generation born in the fifties and sixties, who should now be in their fifties and sixties?
    All the oxygen is being sucked out of the room by the triumph of the gerontocracy. That age doesn’t mean anything other than living doesn’t stop them believing that they’re something special. They should just fuck off and die.
  • Options
    I have been on Buttigieg for months, so I am biased, but for what it is worth I have an increasingly feeling the Dems are about to pull off their own complete surprise nominee.

    If you disagree than he can be laid at 5.5 at the moment.

  • Options
    kle4 said:

    Great Corbyn quote on the Labour site

    "When Labour wins elections, it is the people and not the powerful who win"

    Yes, when the Tories win elections the people do not win, even though they've voted for it. Corbyn knows the people don't want it even when they say they do, it's about his respect for the people.

    False consciousness argument.

    Another stand out classic from the Marx playbook.
  • Options
    MarqueeMarkMarqueeMark Posts: 50,125
    kle4 said:

    Great Corbyn quote on the Labour site

    "When Labour wins elections, it is the people and not the powerful who win"

    Yes, when the Tories win elections the people do not win, even though they've voted for it. Corbyn knows the people don't want it even when they say they do, it's about his respect for the people.

    Step Away. From. The. Labour. Site.

    No good can come of it this close to bedtime.
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    novanova Posts: 525
    MaxPB said:

    kle4 said:

    MaxPB said:

    RobD said:

    geoffw said:

    BluerBlue said:

    nico67 said:

    I wonder whether Damian Lyons Lowe from Survation are doing some polling including a question on the Waspi women . Going by his tweet he thinks this is likely to hurt the Tories.

    Will the question include the information that it will cost the public an extra £58 billion in uncosted borrowing and / or taxes? Because that seems like a relevant piece of context, no?
    Are there some workings behind the £58bn?
    Number of women affected times the average amount of compensation.
    Wow thanks for that insight!

    I was rather wondering if anyone has the stats on numbers impacted and avereage amount per person.
    £15,380 average, £31,300 maximum. A huge bung.

    https://news.sky.com/story/general-election-2019-labours-58bn-pledge-to-right-waspi-injustice-11869005
    Might we see the biggest gender divide this election?
    Always interesting at how much more the young voter is pro Labour than the male one.
    Labour are about to test that theory to destruction in the 25-34 age range unless they u-turn on the £58bn. I haven't seen my non-politically inclined friends this annoyed by a single policy in a very long time. Until now they just thought Corbyn was a joke with his free broadband and oddball ideas, now they think he's going to tax all of them to pay for older wealthy women who want to retire early.
    I think most of that range as so solidly Labour they won't be going anywhere, which is why they feel able to make such an unfair policy in the first place.
    Yes, the Nick Timothy thought the same about old people and decided to introduce the idiotic dementia tax. That turned out extremely well.
    Maybe the Tories have made a mistake this time around by being too cautious.

    All the Brexit talk from Boris is about how great the country is - but they're going to have to go after Labour with a "the country can't afford it" platform.

    Labour can afford to be bold. Bang on about how the UK is the fifth biggest economy in the world*- to say we can't afford a great health service, or the best pensions is just talking this great country down.

    *yes I know it's not per capita, but what opponent wants to argue a technical point, or say "we're not THAT great".
  • Options
    LostPasswordLostPassword Posts: 15,263

    kle4 said:

    Great Corbyn quote on the Labour site

    "When Labour wins elections, it is the people and not the powerful who win"

    Yes, when the Tories win elections the people do not win, even though they've voted for it. Corbyn knows the people don't want it even when they say they do, it's about his respect for the people.

    False consciousness argument.

    Another stand out classic from the Marx playbook.
    What do Tories say about the electorate when Labour won elections? I doubt it's anything like, "gosh, we're completely wrong about everything, aren't we?"
  • Options
    FishingFishing Posts: 4,561
    At a stretch, I can see Bloomberg winning the Democratic nomination, but I can't see him winning the Presidency.

    Non-politicians in America have needed some type of star quality to win the ultimate prize, either as a successful general (Washington, Eisenhower, Grant) or a celebrity (Trump and to some extent Reagan). I think Bloomberg, though a successful businessman, misses out on that X-factor.
  • Options
    kle4kle4 Posts: 91,750
    edited November 2019

    kle4 said:

    Great Corbyn quote on the Labour site

    "When Labour wins elections, it is the people and not the powerful who win"

    Yes, when the Tories win elections the people do not win, even though they've voted for it. Corbyn knows the people don't want it even when they say they do, it's about his respect for the people.

    False consciousness argument.

    Another stand out classic from the Marx playbook.
    What do Tories say about the electorate when Labour won elections? I doubt it's anything like, "gosh, we're completely wrong about everything, aren't we?"
    They do not, but that's rather different from suggesting 'the people lose' when the party loses, rather than just that the people will be worse off for making the wrong choice.

    Not that the conflation of the interests of the party with the interests of the country is a sin unique to Labour, but it is bloody silly.
  • Options
    Warren is da yoof
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    nova said:

    MaxPB said:

    kle4 said:

    MaxPB said:

    RobD said:

    geoffw said:

    BluerBlue said:

    nico67 said:

    I wonder whether Damian Lyons Lowe from Survation are doing some polling including a question on the Waspi women . Going by his tweet he thinks this is likely to hurt the Tories.

    Will the question include the information that it will cost the public an extra £58 billion in uncosted borrowing and / or taxes? Because that seems like a relevant piece of context, no?
    Are there some workings behind the £58bn?
    Number of women affected times the average amount of compensation.
    Wow thanks for that insight!

    I was rather wondering if anyone has the stats on numbers impacted and avereage amount per person.
    £15,380 average, £31,300 maximum. A huge bung.

    https://news.sky.com/story/general-election-2019-labours-58bn-pledge-to-right-waspi-injustice-11869005
    Might we see the biggest gender divide this election?
    Always interesting at how much more the young voter is pro Labour than the male one.
    I think most of that range as so solidly Labour they won't be going anywhere, which is why they feel able to make such an unfair policy in the first place.
    Yes, the Nick Timothy thought the same about old people and decided to introduce the idiotic dementia tax. That turned out extremely well.
    Maybe the Tories have made a mistake this time around by being too cautious.

    All the Brexit talk from Boris is about how great the country is - but they're going to have to go after Labour with a "the country can't afford it" platform.

    Labour can afford to be bold. Bang on about how the UK is the fifth biggest economy in the world*- to say we can't afford a great health service, or the best pensions is just talking this great country down.

    *yes I know it's not per capita, but what opponent wants to argue a technical point, or say "we're not THAT great".
    The "we're the fifth biggest economy so we can afford it" argument from the left is utterly ridiculous. We're one of the biggest economies in the world because of our liberalised, free-market economy, not because of socialism. If we adopted Labour's crazy far-left platform, we'd be on a rapid descent towards poverty as business, investment, and the "evil rich" fled the country as fast as they could...
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    Byronic said:

    Cookie said:

    geoffw said:

    RobD said:

    RobD said:

    RobD said:

    £2Bn for potholes

    £1Bn for childcare

    ...

    As a childless singleton that doesn't drive I don't care about either. But anybody claiming to be green should pollution and over population.
    I personally think we should be encouraging the use of public transport as much as possible and phasing out cars entirely - that should be the ultimate goal IMHO
    Not a fan of electric cars?
    They're better than petrol and diesel cars - and if there is no reasonable public transport they seem like a good compromise. But fundamentally we need to transition away from private transport.
    And rely on the State anytime we want to travel. Marvellous.
    Plus the state knowing exactly where you are going all the time. Spooky!
    Point of order - based on my trains into London, knowing I’ve caught one tells you very little little about either where I am or where I am going.
    Are you sure your Trainline app doesn't tell Google?
    No that only tells you where I should be and where I’m meant to be going.
    "I'll tell you a riddle. You're waiting for a train, a train that will take you far away. You know where you hope this train will take you, but you don't know for sure. But it doesn't matter. How can it not matter to you where the train will take you?"
    If you are a sad train loon?
    Talking of which - Sunil - ever been on this little fella?
    https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Pre_Metro_Operations
    [swaggering] Man, I've been on all of National Rail routes in England & Wales save for weekend-only stuff like Dale Rail and the Stockport-Guide Bridge (but I have done the Gainsborough-Brigg line and Crediton-Okehampton)! :)

    In Scotland, done all of Scotrail except for Inverness to Aberdeen, Inverness to Kyle and Dingwall to Wick/Thurso.
    Have you done all the Cornish branch lines? They’re fabulously quaint.

    Perranwell. Menheniot. Luxulyan!
    Yes I have, Sean, er, I mean Byronic. Even did the full reverse into Coombe Junction Halt.
  • Options
    Andy_JSAndy_JS Posts: 26,639
    Byronic said:

    kle4 said:

    Byronic said:

    I’ve recently spent some time with a large smattering of Americans, left and right.

    They all agreed that the age of the candidates is a real issue. They all despaired of it, and wanted change. Reps and Dems.

    If this is a widespread feeling someone like Buttigieg has an in-built advantage.

    What happened to the generation born in the fifties and sixties, who should now be in their fifties and sixties?
    Probably too busy arguing about pension changes to run for president?
    America is weirdly gerontocratic, tho. It’s worse than China now.

    So much is going wrong with America it’s easy to despair. But then you watch Rick and Morty and you think: a country that can make TV this sharp and funny might easily bounce back.
    Interesting that the median age in the USA is about to be overtaken by China. They're both on 37 at the moment. UK is 40.
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    EPGEPG Posts: 6,008

    kle4 said:

    Great Corbyn quote on the Labour site

    "When Labour wins elections, it is the people and not the powerful who win"

    Yes, when the Tories win elections the people do not win, even though they've voted for it. Corbyn knows the people don't want it even when they say they do, it's about his respect for the people.

    False consciousness argument.

    Another stand out classic from the Marx playbook.
    What do Tories say about the electorate when Labour won elections? I doubt it's anything like, "gosh, we're completely wrong about everything, aren't we?"
    They came to their senses around 9 years in, i.e., around now. Too little credit goes to Michael Howard perhaps because his most notable post-leadership action was to support a war against Spain. Will Labour come to their senses in a month? j/k
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    Ave_itAve_it Posts: 2,411
    edited November 2019
    I have been to Roche...
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    FloaterFloater Posts: 14,195

    kle4 said:

    Great Corbyn quote on the Labour site

    "When Labour wins elections, it is the people and not the powerful who win"

    Yes, when the Tories win elections the people do not win, even though they've voted for it. Corbyn knows the people don't want it even when they say they do, it's about his respect for the people.

    False consciousness argument.

    Another stand out classic from the Marx playbook.
    The following comment is from a Labour candidate

    https://twitter.com/KierinOfflands/status/1109831881233760256?ref_src=twsrc^tfw|twcamp^tweetembed|twterm^1109831881233760256&ref_url=https://disqus.com/embed/comments/?base=default&f=harrysplace&t_i=120959%20http%3A%2F%2Fhurryupharry.org%2F%3Fp%3D120959&t_u=http%3A%2F%2Fhurryupharry.org%2F2019%2F11%2F22%2Fno-free-lunch%2F&t_e=No%20free%20lunch&t_d=No%20free%20lunch%20%E2%80%93%20Harry%27s%20Place&t_t=No%20free%20lunch&s_o=default#version=a7c11c2c4a19752acf5a7bdea26a55d8
  • Options
    novanova Posts: 525
    BluerBlue said:

    The "we're the fifth biggest economy so we can afford it" argument from the left is utterly ridiculous. We're one of the biggest economies in the world because of our liberalised, free-market economy, not because of socialism. If we adopted Labour's crazy far-left platform, we'd be on a rapid descent towards poverty as business, investment, and the "evil rich" fled the country as fast as they could...

    Boring.

    Britain is great - we should be able to afford the best pensions and a great health service.

    If you want to stand up after a decade of austerity and say we still can't afford anything, please do, but the public seem to like a "yes we can" attitude :)
  • Options
    FloaterFloater Posts: 14,195
    nova said:

    BluerBlue said:

    The "we're the fifth biggest economy so we can afford it" argument from the left is utterly ridiculous. We're one of the biggest economies in the world because of our liberalised, free-market economy, not because of socialism. If we adopted Labour's crazy far-left platform, we'd be on a rapid descent towards poverty as business, investment, and the "evil rich" fled the country as fast as they could...

    Boring.

    Britain is great - we should be able to afford the best pensions and a great health service.

    If you want to stand up after a decade of austerity and say we still can't afford anything, please do, but the public seem to like a "yes we can" attitude :)
    But you have to be realistic

    The public is literately laughing at your policies

    Don't believe me, that's coming from your own focus groups.

  • Options
    ByronicByronic Posts: 3,578
    matt said:

    Byronic said:

    I’ve recently spent some time with a large smattering of Americans, left and right.

    They all agreed that the age of the candidates is a real issue. They all despaired of it, and wanted change. Reps and Dems.

    If this is a widespread feeling someone like Buttigieg has an in-built advantage.

    What happened to the generation born in the fifties and sixties, who should now be in their fifties and sixties?
    All the oxygen is being sucked out of the room by the triumph of the gerontocracy. That age doesn’t mean anything other than living doesn’t stop them believing that they’re something special. They should just fuck off and die.
    Yes, that was pretty much the attitude of the Americans I met. Fuck odd and die, coffin-dodgers. And some of these people were in their 70s

    Hillary got a lot of stick just for this.
  • Options
    ByronicByronic Posts: 3,578
    Ave_it said:

    I have been to Roche...

    I pity you. Tho it has its perverse attractions.
  • Options
    nova said:

    BluerBlue said:

    The "we're the fifth biggest economy so we can afford it" argument from the left is utterly ridiculous. We're one of the biggest economies in the world because of our liberalised, free-market economy, not because of socialism. If we adopted Labour's crazy far-left platform, we'd be on a rapid descent towards poverty as business, investment, and the "evil rich" fled the country as fast as they could...

    Boring.

    Britain is great - we should be able to afford the best pensions and a great health service.

    If you want to stand up after a decade of austerity and say we still can't afford anything, please do, but the public seem to like a "yes we can" attitude :)
    They don't when it comes to paying for it.
  • Options
    ozymandiasozymandias Posts: 1,503
    edited November 2019
    Byronic said:

    matt said:

    Byronic said:

    I’ve recently spent some time with a large smattering of Americans, left and right.

    They all agreed that the age of the candidates is a real issue. They all despaired of it, and wanted change. Reps and Dems.

    If this is a widespread feeling someone like Buttigieg has an in-built advantage.

    What happened to the generation born in the fifties and sixties, who should now be in their fifties and sixties?
    All the oxygen is being sucked out of the room by the triumph of the gerontocracy. That age doesn’t mean anything other than living doesn’t stop them believing that they’re something special. They should just fuck off and die.
    Yes, that was pretty much the attitude of the Americans I met. Fuck odd and die, coffin-dodgers. And some of these people were in their 70s

    Hillary got a lot of stick just for this.
    Mr Byronic - at the last election there was a user called SeanT who went hysterical at the Tory manifesto. I remember reading his comments avidly before I joined this site. Sadly he no longer contributes.

    How do you feel about the manifesto?
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    viewcodeviewcode Posts: 18,782
    In line with my policy of betting transparency, please be advised that I have today placed a bet of £150 with Betfred at 2/5 on Conservative overall majority. I intended to wait until the YouGov MRP but the price was falling so quickly I thought it best to take the risk. #BigBoyPants

    For @Big_G_NorthWales and others who do not bet or might like the process explained, it goes like this:

    I went into the bookies and gave him £150. In turn he gave me a white slip with "Next Election: Conservatives Overall Majority 2/5" on it. Betfred is a fixed odds bookie (sometimes known as a "sportsbook" bookie). So the "2/5" means for every 5 I give him, he will give me 2 back if successful. So if Con does get an OM I will get £60 back (60=150*2/5) plus my original stake of £150. If Cons does not get an OM I will get nothing.
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    camelcamel Posts: 815
    One benefit (the only one?) of leaving the EU is the potential to ban the shipping of live animals for slaughter.

    https://www.bbc.co.uk/news/world-europe-50538592
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    novanova Posts: 525
    Floater said:

    nova said:

    BluerBlue said:

    The "we're the fifth biggest economy so we can afford it" argument from the left is utterly ridiculous. We're one of the biggest economies in the world because of our liberalised, free-market economy, not because of socialism. If we adopted Labour's crazy far-left platform, we'd be on a rapid descent towards poverty as business, investment, and the "evil rich" fled the country as fast as they could...

    Boring.

    Britain is great - we should be able to afford the best pensions and a great health service.

    If you want to stand up after a decade of austerity and say we still can't afford anything, please do, but the public seem to like a "yes we can" attitude :)
    But you have to be realistic

    The public is literately laughing at your policies

    Don't believe me, that's coming from your own focus groups.

    I personally don't have any policies. While I appreciate that something like free broadband may not have gone down well - genuine extra money for pensions and the NHS are going to be popular.

    The Tories could have been generous and still undercut Labour massively, but
    their caution may just give Labour a simple positive argument (and let's face it, they need something big to go their way).

  • Options
    ozymandiasozymandias Posts: 1,503
    nova said:

    Floater said:

    nova said:

    BluerBlue said:

    The "we're the fifth biggest economy so we can afford it" argument from the left is utterly ridiculous. We're one of the biggest economies in the world because of our liberalised, free-market economy, not because of socialism. If we adopted Labour's crazy far-left platform, we'd be on a rapid descent towards poverty as business, investment, and the "evil rich" fled the country as fast as they could...

    Boring.

    Britain is great - we should be able to afford the best pensions and a great health service.

    If you want to stand up after a decade of austerity and say we still can't afford anything, please do, but the public seem to like a "yes we can" attitude :)
    But you have to be realistic

    The public is literately laughing at your policies

    Don't believe me, that's coming from your own focus groups.

    I personally don't have any policies. While I appreciate that something like free broadband may not have gone down well - genuine extra money for pensions and the NHS are going to be popular.

    The Tories could have been generous and still undercut Labour massively, but
    their caution may just give Labour a simple positive argument (and let's face it, they need something big to go their way).

    These momentum trolls stay up late now don’t they.
  • Options
    RobDRobD Posts: 58,967

    nova said:

    Floater said:

    nova said:

    BluerBlue said:

    The "we're the fifth biggest economy so we can afford it" argument from the left is utterly ridiculous. We're one of the biggest economies in the world because of our liberalised, free-market economy, not because of socialism. If we adopted Labour's crazy far-left platform, we'd be on a rapid descent towards poverty as business, investment, and the "evil rich" fled the country as fast as they could...

    Boring.

    Britain is great - we should be able to afford the best pensions and a great health service.

    If you want to stand up after a decade of austerity and say we still can't afford anything, please do, but the public seem to like a "yes we can" attitude :)
    But you have to be realistic

    The public is literately laughing at your policies

    Don't believe me, that's coming from your own focus groups.

    I personally don't have any policies. While I appreciate that something like free broadband may not have gone down well - genuine extra money for pensions and the NHS are going to be popular.

    The Tories could have been generous and still undercut Labour massively, but
    their caution may just give Labour a simple positive argument (and let's face it, they need something big to go their way).

    These momentum trolls stay up late now don’t they.
    PB Tories stay up later ;)
  • Options
    ozymandiasozymandias Posts: 1,503
    RobD said:

    nova said:

    Floater said:

    nova said:

    BluerBlue said:

    The "we're the fifth biggest economy so we can afford it" argument from the left is utterly ridiculous. We're one of the biggest economies in the world because of our liberalised, free-market economy, not because of socialism. If we adopted Labour's crazy far-left platform, we'd be on a rapid descent towards poverty as business, investment, and the "evil rich" fled the country as fast as they could...

    Boring.

    Britain is great - we should be able to afford the best pensions and a great health service.

    If you want to stand up after a decade of austerity and say we still can't afford anything, please do, but the public seem to like a "yes we can" attitude :)
    But you have to be realistic

    The public is literately laughing at your policies

    Don't believe me, that's coming from your own focus groups.

    I personally don't have any policies. While I appreciate that something like free broadband may not have gone down well - genuine extra money for pensions and the NHS are going to be popular.

    The Tories could have been generous and still undercut Labour massively, but
    their caution may just give Labour a simple positive argument (and let's face it, they need something big to go their way).

    These momentum trolls stay up late now don’t they.
    PB Tories stay up later ;)
    Made of stronger stuff. 😉
  • Options
    FloaterFloater Posts: 14,195

    nova said:

    Floater said:

    nova said:

    BluerBlue said:

    The "we're the fifth biggest economy so we can afford it" argument from the left is utterly ridiculous. We're one of the biggest economies in the world because of our liberalised, free-market economy, not because of socialism. If we adopted Labour's crazy far-left platform, we'd be on a rapid descent towards poverty as business, investment, and the "evil rich" fled the country as fast as they could...

    Boring.

    Britain is great - we should be able to afford the best pensions and a great health service.

    If you want to stand up after a decade of austerity and say we still can't afford anything, please do, but the public seem to like a "yes we can" attitude :)
    But you have to be realistic

    The public is literately laughing at your policies

    Don't believe me, that's coming from your own focus groups.

    I personally don't have any policies. While I appreciate that something like free broadband may not have gone down well - genuine extra money for pensions and the NHS are going to be popular.

    The Tories could have been generous and still undercut Labour massively, but
    their caution may just give Labour a simple positive argument (and let's face it, they need something big to go their way).

    These momentum trolls stay up late now don’t they.
    About as subtle as a brick and also about as persuasive.
  • Options
    PulpstarPulpstar Posts: 75,929
    edited November 2019
    BBC Said:
    At the very least, however, his entry will provide him a means to push a party that he sees drifting dangerous leftward back to the pro-business centre.

    I'm not sure, could give Sanders a boost..
  • Options
    FishingFishing Posts: 4,561
    Floater said:

    nova said:

    BluerBlue said:

    The "we're the fifth biggest economy so we can afford it" argument from the left is utterly ridiculous. We're one of the biggest economies in the world because of our liberalised, free-market economy, not because of socialism. If we adopted Labour's crazy far-left platform, we'd be on a rapid descent towards poverty as business, investment, and the "evil rich" fled the country as fast as they could...

    Boring.

    Britain is great - we should be able to afford the best pensions and a great health service.

    If you want to stand up after a decade of austerity and say we still can't afford anything, please do, but the public seem to like a "yes we can" attitude :)
    But you have to be realistic

    The public is literately laughing at your policies

    Don't believe me, that's coming from your own focus groups.

    Evidently Corbyn's followers don't grasp the difference between overall and per-capita wealth. China is the world's second largest economy, but nobody would say they can afford better health care than we can. We are about the 15th-20th richest economy per head in the world, so we can afford public services that are fairly average for industrialised countries.
  • Options
    HYUFDHYUFD Posts: 117,007
    Bloomberg has near zero chance of becoming Democratic nominee but he could do a Ross Perot and run as an independent in the general election, especially if that ends up with a left liberal radical like Warren or Sanders against Trump
  • Options

    RobD said:

    nova said:

    Floater said:

    nova said:

    BluerBlue said:

    The "we're the fifth biggest economy so we can afford it" argument from the left is utterly ridiculous. We're one of the biggest economies in the world because of our liberalised, free-market economy, not because of socialism. If we adopted Labour's crazy far-left platform, we'd be on a rapid descent towards poverty as business, investment, and the "evil rich" fled the country as fast as they could...

    Boring.

    Britain is great - we should be able to afford the best pensions and a great health service.

    If you want to stand up after a decade of austerity and say we still can't afford anything, please do, but the public seem to like a "yes we can" attitude :)
    But you have to be realistic

    The public is literately laughing at your policies

    Don't believe me, that's coming from your own focus groups.

    I personally don't have any policies. While I appreciate that something like free broadband may not have gone down well - genuine extra money for pensions and the NHS are going to be popular.

    The Tories could have been generous and still undercut Labour massively, but
    their caution may just give Labour a simple positive argument (and let's face it, they need something big to go their way).

    These momentum trolls stay up late now don’t they.
    PB Tories stay up later ;)
    Made of stronger stuff. 😉
    Get up earlier too.....

    Didn't he used to post here:

    https://twitter.com/thomasknox/status/1198748966898278400?s=20
  • Options
    ozymandiasozymandias Posts: 1,503
    Floater said:

    nova said:

    Floater said:

    nova said:

    BluerBlue said:

    The "we're the fifth biggest economy so we can afford it" argument from the left is utterly ridiculous. We're one of the biggest economies in the world because of our liberalised, free-market economy, not because of socialism. If we adopted Labour's crazy far-left platform, we'd be on a rapid descent towards poverty as business, investment, and the "evil rich" fled the country as fast as they could...

    Boring.

    Britain is great - we should be able to afford the best pensions and a great health service.

    If you want to stand up after a decade of austerity and say we still can't afford anything, please do, but the public seem to like a "yes we can" attitude :)
    But you have to be realistic

    The public is literately laughing at your policies

    Don't believe me, that's coming from your own focus groups.

    I personally don't have any policies. While I appreciate that something like free broadband may not have gone down well - genuine extra money for pensions and the NHS are going to be popular.

    The Tories could have been generous and still undercut Labour massively, but
    their caution may just give Labour a simple positive argument (and let's face it, they need something big to go their way).

    These momentum trolls stay up late now don’t they.
    About as subtle as a brick and also about as persuasive.
    Although mummy and daddy sent them to private school and bought them a little apartment in the city near their little job, they still have the wit, charm and intelligence of a retarded woodlouse.
  • Options
    novanova Posts: 525

    nova said:

    Floater said:

    nova said:

    BluerBlue said:

    The "we're the fifth biggest economy so we can afford it" argument from the left is utterly ridiculous. We're one of the biggest economies in the world because of our liberalised, free-market economy, not because of socialism. If we adopted Labour's crazy far-left platform, we'd be on a rapid descent towards poverty as business, investment, and the "evil rich" fled the country as fast as they could...

    Boring.

    Britain is great - we should be able to afford the best pensions and a great health service.

    If you want to stand up after a decade of austerity and say we still can't afford anything, please do, but the public seem to like a "yes we can" attitude :)
    But you have to be realistic

    The public is literately laughing at your policies

    Don't believe me, that's coming from your own focus groups.

    I personally don't have any policies. While I appreciate that something like free broadband may not have gone down well - genuine extra money for pensions and the NHS are going to be popular.

    The Tories could have been generous and still undercut Labour massively, but
    their caution may just give Labour a simple positive argument (and let's face it, they need something big to go their way).

    These momentum trolls stay up late now don’t they.
    Not sure anything I've said is even partisan, so be accused of trolling is a little sad . Still - I'll assume it's just a joke :)

    Saying Get Brexit Done is a much easier argument to make than "let's go back, have a chat with the EU, get another deal, have a referendum but we're not sure on what". That's the kind of thing that cuts through to the electorate.

    Saying we've had austerity for ten years, we're back on track, and we can afford to spend a reasonable amount of money, is a neat argument, because it allows you to be positive while painting Labour as crazy spenders.

    Saying we're a great country, we're back on track, but we're going to spend a fraction of 1% extra each year, isn't a great, positive argument.

    I'm simply arguing that it looks timid, and gives Labour a chance to make a positive argument, using the Tories own "unleash the potential" rhetoric.
  • Options
    viewcode said:

    In line with my policy of betting transparency, please be advised that I have today placed a bet of £150 with Betfred at 2/5 on Conservative overall majority. I intended to wait until the YouGov MRP but the price was falling so quickly I thought it best to take the risk. #BigBoyPants

    For @Big_G_NorthWales and others who do not bet or might like the process explained, it goes like this:

    I went into the bookies and gave him £150. In turn he gave me a white slip with "Next Election: Conservatives Overall Majority 2/5" on it. Betfred is a fixed odds bookie (sometimes known as a "sportsbook" bookie). So the "2/5" means for every 5 I give him, he will give me 2 back if successful. So if Con does get an OM I will get £60 back (60=150*2/5) plus my original stake of £150. If Cons does not get an OM I will get nothing.

    Well done you for putting your own money at risk. I don't bet because I know I'm the type of person who could get addicted. My brother in law made a tidy sum on Brexit referendum night based on what was being said on here though.
  • Options
    camelcamel Posts: 815

    RobD said:

    nova said:

    Floater said:

    nova said:

    BluerBlue said:

    The "we're the fifth biggest economy so we can afford it" argument from the left is utterly ridiculous. We're one of the biggest economies in the world because of our liberalised, free-market economy, not because of socialism. If we adopted Labour's crazy far-left platform, we'd be on a rapid descent towards poverty as business, investment, and the "evil rich" fled the country as fast as they could...

    Boring.

    Britain is great - we should be able to afford the best pensions and a great health service.

    If you want to stand up after a decade of austerity and say we still can't afford anything, please do, but the public seem to like a "yes we can" attitude :)
    But you have to be realistic

    The public is literately laughing at your policies

    Don't believe me, that's coming from your own focus groups.

    I personally don't have any policies. While I appreciate that something like free broadband may not have gone down well - genuine extra money for pensions and the NHS are going to be popular.

    The Tories could have been generous and still undercut Labour massively, but
    their caution may just give Labour a simple positive argument (and let's face it, they need something big to go their way).

    These momentum trolls stay up late now don’t they.
    PB Tories stay up later ;)
    Made of stronger stuff. 😉
    Get up earlier too.....

    Didn't he used to post here:

    https://twitter.com/thomasknox/status/1198748966898278400?s=20
    Antisemitism is a small price to pay to stop the tories and their pothole-filling.
  • Options
    https://twitter.com/Corbynator2_0/status/1198738824916017152

    "they" being Gordon Brown and Alistair Darling, in concert with rest of the West.

    Last time I checked these two neoliberal maniacs were senior members of the only three term Labour government in the party's history.
  • Options
    argyllrsargyllrs Posts: 155
    I think that to underestimate Bloomberg is to make the same mistake as GOP candidates did with Trump. Betfair price is great value
  • Options

    I have been on Buttigieg for months, so I am biased, but for what it is worth I have an increasingly feeling the Dems are about to pull off their own complete surprise nominee.

    If you disagree than he can be laid at 5.5 at the moment.

    If you can lay an outcome at 5.5 it wouldn't be a COMPLETE surprise.
  • Options

    viewcode said:

    In line with my policy of betting transparency, please be advised that I have today placed a bet of £150 with Betfred at 2/5 on Conservative overall majority. I intended to wait until the YouGov MRP but the price was falling so quickly I thought it best to take the risk. #BigBoyPants

    For @Big_G_NorthWales and others who do not bet or might like the process explained, it goes like this:

    I went into the bookies and gave him £150. In turn he gave me a white slip with "Next Election: Conservatives Overall Majority 2/5" on it. Betfred is a fixed odds bookie (sometimes known as a "sportsbook" bookie). So the "2/5" means for every 5 I give him, he will give me 2 back if successful. So if Con does get an OM I will get £60 back (60=150*2/5) plus my original stake of £150. If Cons does not get an OM I will get nothing.

    Well done you for putting your own money at risk. I don't bet because I know I'm the type of person who could get addicted. My brother in law made a tidy sum on Brexit referendum night based on what was being said on here though.
    Glad we were of service.

    IIRC we were a couple of hours in advance of TV in realising what was happening.
  • Options

    RobD said:

    nova said:

    Floater said:

    nova said:

    BluerBlue said:

    The "we're the fifth biggest economy so we can afford it" argument from the left is utterly ridiculous. We're one of the biggest economies in the world because of our liberalised, free-market economy, not because of socialism. If we adopted Labour's crazy far-left platform, we'd be on a rapid descent towards poverty as business, investment, and the "evil rich" fled the country as fast as they could...

    Boring.

    Britain is great - we should be able to afford the best pensions and a great health service.

    If you want to stand up after a decade of austerity and say we still can't afford anything, please do, but the public seem to like a "yes we can" attitude :)
    But you have to be realistic

    The public is literately laughing at your policies

    Don't believe me, that's coming from your own focus groups.

    I personally don't have any policies. While I appreciate that something like free broadband may not have gone down well - genuine extra money for pensions and the NHS are going to be popular.

    The Tories could have been generous and still undercut Labour massively, but
    their caution may just give Labour a simple positive argument (and let's face it, they need something big to go their way).

    These momentum trolls stay up late now don’t they.
    PB Tories stay up later ;)
    Made of stronger stuff. 😉
    Get up earlier too.....

    Didn't he used to post here:

    https://twitter.com/thomasknox/status/1198748966898278400?s=20
    The comments after Sir Richard's tweet seem to be all negative. Funny that.
  • Options

    https://twitter.com/Corbynator2_0/status/1198738824916017152

    "they" being Gordon Brown and Alistair Darling, in concert with rest of the West.

    Last time I checked these two neoliberal maniacs were senior members of the only three term Labour government in the party's history.

    He's also saying "we'll borrow it and let the young pay it back".
  • Options

    RobD said:

    nova said:

    Floater said:

    nova said:

    BluerBlue said:

    The "we're the fifth biggest economy so we can afford it" argument from the left is utterly ridiculous. We're one of the biggest economies in the world because of our liberalised, free-market economy, not because of socialism. If we adopted Labour's crazy far-left platform, we'd be on a rapid descent towards poverty as business, investment, and the "evil rich" fled the country as fast as they could...

    Boring.

    Britain is great - we should be able to afford the best pensions and a great health service.

    If you want to stand up after a decade of austerity and say we still can't afford anything, please do, but the public seem to like a "yes we can" attitude :)
    But you have to be realistic

    The public is literately laughing at your policies

    Don't believe me, that's coming from your own focus groups.

    I personally don't have any policies. While I appreciate that something like free broadband may not have gone down well - genuine extra money for pensions and the NHS are going to be popular.

    The Tories could have been generous and still undercut Labour massively, but
    their caution may just give Labour a simple positive argument (and let's face it, they need something big to go their way).

    These momentum trolls stay up late now don’t they.
    PB Tories stay up later ;)
    Made of stronger stuff. 😉
    Get up earlier too.....

    Didn't he used to post here:

    https://twitter.com/thomasknox/status/1198748966898278400?s=20
    He'll be back once he's won his £1k bet on the date of Brexit.
  • Options
    ozymandiasozymandias Posts: 1,503

    https://twitter.com/Corbynator2_0/status/1198738824916017152

    "they" being Gordon Brown and Alistair Darling, in concert with rest of the West.

    Last time I checked these two neoliberal maniacs were senior members of the only three term Labour government in the party's history.

    He's also saying "we'll borrow it and let the young pay it back".
    That’s the attack line.
  • Options

    I have been on Buttigieg for months, so I am biased, but for what it is worth I have an increasingly feeling the Dems are about to pull off their own complete surprise nominee.

    If you disagree than he can be laid at 5.5 at the moment.

    If you can lay an outcome at 5.5 it wouldn't be a COMPLETE surprise.
    :lol: Indeed, I was referring to Mayor Pete's position at the start of all this. No chance in a crowded field that included Biden.
  • Options
    ByronicByronic Posts: 3,578

    Byronic said:

    matt said:

    Byronic said:

    I’ve recently spent some time with a large smattering of Americans, left and right.

    They all agreed that the age of the candidates is a real issue. They all despaired of it, and wanted change. Reps and Dems.

    If this is a widespread feeling someone like Buttigieg has an in-built advantage.

    What happened to the generation born in the fifties and sixties, who should now be in their fifties and sixties?
    All the oxygen is being sucked out of the room by the triumph of the gerontocracy. That age doesn’t mean anything other than living doesn’t stop them believing that they’re something special. They should just fuck off and die.
    Yes, that was pretty much the attitude of the Americans I met. Fuck odd and die, coffin-dodgers. And some of these people were in their 70s

    Hillary got a lot of stick just for this.
    Mr Byronic - at the last election there was a user called SeanT who went hysterical at the Tory manifesto. I remember reading his comments avidly before I joined this site. Sadly he no longer contributes.

    How do you feel about the manifesto?
    I worry it lacks one or two retail offers. But I don’t instantly feel it’s calamitous.
  • Options
    AndrewAndrew Posts: 2,900


    "they" being Gordon Brown and Alistair Darling, in concert with rest of the West.

    Last time I checked these two neoliberal maniacs were senior members of the only three term Labour government in the party's history.

    No doubt they should f off and join the Tories.

    ….and of course, where they found the money: they borrowed it. Huge Himalayan-sized mounds of it. 150 billion a year deficit, that took a decade to get under control.
  • Options
    novanova Posts: 525
    Fishing said:

    Floater said:

    nova said:

    BluerBlue said:

    The "we're the fifth biggest economy so we can afford it" argument from the left is utterly ridiculous. We're one of the biggest economies in the world because of our liberalised, free-market economy, not because of socialism. If we adopted Labour's crazy far-left platform, we'd be on a rapid descent towards poverty as business, investment, and the "evil rich" fled the country as fast as they could...

    Boring.

    Britain is great - we should be able to afford the best pensions and a great health service.

    If you want to stand up after a decade of austerity and say we still can't afford anything, please do, but the public seem to like a "yes we can" attitude :)
    But you have to be realistic

    The public is literately laughing at your policies

    Don't believe me, that's coming from your own focus groups.

    Evidently Corbyn's followers don't grasp the difference between overall and per-capita wealth. China is the world's second largest economy, but nobody would say they can afford better health care than we can. We are about the 15th-20th richest economy per head in the world, so we can afford public services that are fairly average for industrialised countries.
    Not a Corbynista by any stretch of the imagination, and I specifically mentioned that it wasn't per capita - but I'd suggest that bringing in per capita etc. is like trying to argue that big numbers on the side of bus are incorrect because of rebates/net contributions etc. It's a trickier argument to get across.
  • Options
    TheuniondivvieTheuniondivvie Posts: 40,109
    edited November 2019

    I have been on Buttigieg for months, so I am biased, but for what it is worth I have an increasingly feeling the Dems are about to pull off their own complete surprise nominee.

    If you disagree than he can be laid at 5.5 at the moment.

    If you can lay an outcome at 5.5 it wouldn't be a COMPLETE surprise.
    :lol: Indeed, I was referring to Mayor Pete's position at the start of all this. No chance in a crowded field that included Biden.
    Fair enough. The Biden at the start of all this makes his present incarnation seem a pale, gaffe-ridden shadow, mind.
  • Options
    ozymandiasozymandias Posts: 1,503
    Andrew said:


    "they" being Gordon Brown and Alistair Darling, in concert with rest of the West.

    Last time I checked these two neoliberal maniacs were senior members of the only three term Labour government in the party's history.

    No doubt they should f off and join the Tories.

    ….and of course, where they found the money: they borrowed it. Huge Himalayan-sized mounds of it. 150 billion a year deficit, that took a decade to get under control.
    And soon it could all be for nothing and multiply exponentially.
  • Options
    ByronicByronic Posts: 3,578
    nova said:

    Fishing said:

    Floater said:

    nova said:

    BluerBlue said:

    The "we're the fifth biggest economy so we can afford it" argument from the left is utterly ridiculous. We're one of the biggest economies in the world because of our liberalised, free-market economy, not because of socialism. If we adopted Labour's crazy far-left platform, we'd be on a rapid descent towards poverty as business, investment, and the "evil rich" fled the country as fast as they could...

    Boring.

    Britain is great - we should be able to afford the best pensions and a great health service.

    If you want to stand up after a decade of austerity and say we still can't afford anything, please do, but the public seem to like a "yes we can" attitude :)
    But you have to be realistic

    The public is literately laughing at your policies

    Don't believe me, that's coming from your own focus groups.

    Evidently Corbyn's followers don't grasp the difference between overall and per-capita wealth. China is the world's second largest economy, but nobody would say they can afford better health care than we can. We are about the 15th-20th richest economy per head in the world, so we can afford public services that are fairly average for industrialised countries.
    Not a Corbynista by any stretch of the imagination, and I specifically mentioned that it wasn't per capita - but I'd suggest that bringing in per capita etc. is like trying to argue that big numbers on the side of bus are incorrect because of rebates/net contributions etc. It's a trickier argument to get across.
    It’s a semantic failure from the start. Britain is the 6th BIGGEST economy. As China is the 2nd biggest. We are not the 6th richest.
  • Options

    I have been on Buttigieg for months, so I am biased, but for what it is worth I have an increasingly feeling the Dems are about to pull off their own complete surprise nominee.

    If you disagree than he can be laid at 5.5 at the moment.

    If you can lay an outcome at 5.5 it wouldn't be a COMPLETE surprise.
    :lol: Indeed, I was referring to Mayor Pete's position at the start of all this. No chance in a crowded field that included Biden.
    Fair enough. The Biden at the start of all this makes his present incarnation seem a pale, gaffe-ridden shadow, mind.
    To my surprise frankly. OGH was right; he is too old.
  • Options
    novanova Posts: 525

    Floater said:

    nova said:

    Floater said:

    nova said:

    BluerBlue said:

    The "we're the fifth biggest economy so we can afford it" argument from the left is utterly ridiculous. We're one of the biggest economies in the world because of our liberalised, free-market economy, not because of socialism. If we adopted Labour's crazy far-left platform, we'd be on a rapid descent towards poverty as business, investment, and the "evil rich" fled the country as fast as they could...

    Boring.

    Britain is great - we should be able to afford the best pensions and a great health service.

    If you want to stand up after a decade of austerity and say we still can't afford anything, please do, but the public seem to like a "yes we can" attitude :)
    But you have to be realistic

    The public is literately laughing at your policies

    Don't believe me, that's coming from your own focus groups.

    I personally don't have any policies. While I appreciate that something like free broadband may not have gone down well - genuine extra money for pensions and the NHS are going to be popular.

    The Tories could have been generous and still undercut Labour massively, but
    their caution may just give Labour a simple positive argument (and let's face it, they need something big to go their way).

    These momentum trolls stay up late now don’t they.
    About as subtle as a brick and also about as persuasive.
    Although mummy and daddy sent them to private school and bought them a little apartment in the city near their little job, they still have the wit, charm and intelligence of a retarded woodlouse.
    Ah. I did give you the benefit of the doubt with the momentum comment - but this is bizarrely rude.

    I had assumed the idea of this website was to discuss what issues might cause movement in the betting markets. I was suggesting that the Tories may have left the door open for Labour to claw back a little (and I mean "a little"), when a touch more generosity (which they've been trailing in terms of rhetoric for months), could have slammed that door shut.
  • Options
    alex_alex_ Posts: 7,518
    The current Labour leadership genuinely seem to believe that the Government can borrow money for any reason at zero cost.
  • Options
    Andrew said:


    "they" being Gordon Brown and Alistair Darling, in concert with rest of the West.

    Last time I checked these two neoliberal maniacs were senior members of the only three term Labour government in the party's history.

    No doubt they should f off and join the Tories.

    ….and of course, where they found the money: they borrowed it. Huge Himalayan-sized mounds of it. 150 billion a year deficit, that took a decade to get under control.
    If they hadn't bailed the main banks the ATMs would have closed.

    Good luck living in the UK in those few weeks if that had been the case.

    The issue for me is that having bailed out the mess, the banks have not been more firmly controlled/regulated/split apart etc etc.
  • Options
    ThomasNasheThomasNashe Posts: 4,978
    On December 13 ‘We’ will = not MPs and ‘They’ will = MPs.
  • Options
    Andy_JSAndy_JS Posts: 26,639
    Byronic said:

    nova said:

    Fishing said:

    Floater said:

    nova said:

    BluerBlue said:

    The "we're the fifth biggest economy so we can afford it" argument from the left is utterly ridiculous. We're one of the biggest economies in the world because of our liberalised, free-market economy, not because of socialism. If we adopted Labour's crazy far-left platform, we'd be on a rapid descent towards poverty as business, investment, and the "evil rich" fled the country as fast as they could...

    Boring.

    Britain is great - we should be able to afford the best pensions and a great health service.

    If you want to stand up after a decade of austerity and say we still can't afford anything, please do, but the public seem to like a "yes we can" attitude :)
    But you have to be realistic

    The public is literately laughing at your policies

    Don't believe me, that's coming from your own focus groups.

    Evidently Corbyn's followers don't grasp the difference between overall and per-capita wealth. China is the world's second largest economy, but nobody would say they can afford better health care than we can. We are about the 15th-20th richest economy per head in the world, so we can afford public services that are fairly average for industrialised countries.
    Not a Corbynista by any stretch of the imagination, and I specifically mentioned that it wasn't per capita - but I'd suggest that bringing in per capita etc. is like trying to argue that big numbers on the side of bus are incorrect because of rebates/net contributions etc. It's a trickier argument to get across.
    It’s a semantic failure from the start. Britain is the 6th BIGGEST economy. As China is the 2nd biggest. We are not the 6th richest.
    Depends whether you use nominal / exchange rate values or so-called PPP.

    India is ahead of Japan on PPP, which doesn't seem right to me.

    https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/List_of_countries_by_GDP_(PPP)
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    alex_alex_ Posts: 7,518

    On December 13 ‘We’ will = not MPs and ‘They’ will = MPs.
    Is she allowed to style herself as an MP during an election period?
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    NickPalmerNickPalmer Posts: 21,336

    I have been on Buttigieg for months, so I am biased, but for what it is worth I have an increasingly feeling the Dems are about to pull off their own complete surprise nominee.

    If you disagree than he can be laid at 5.5 at the moment.

    If you can lay an outcome at 5.5 it wouldn't be a COMPLETE surprise.
    I remain sceptical about Pete. He's the sort of friendly, rational candidate journalists amd non-party people like, but he doesn't have the idealism to fire up the people who will do the selection. If he won, Democrats would be pleased to see the back of Trump, but would they feel excited? And on current polling he isn't better at beating Trump, which would be the other obvious argument.

    As a VP to an elderly President, thougb, absolutely a spot on choice.
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    https://twitter.com/Corbynator2_0/status/1198738824916017152

    "they" being Gordon Brown and Alistair Darling, in concert with rest of the West.

    Last time I checked these two neoliberal maniacs were senior members of the only three term Labour government in the party's history.

    He's also saying "we'll borrow it and let the young pay it back".
    That’s the attack line.
    I'm not sure that the Conservatives are able to work it out though.

    They weren't capable of doing anything on student debt even though the ONS has given them tens of billions to do so.
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    I have been on Buttigieg for months, so I am biased, but for what it is worth I have an increasingly feeling the Dems are about to pull off their own complete surprise nominee.

    If you disagree than he can be laid at 5.5 at the moment.

    If you can lay an outcome at 5.5 it wouldn't be a COMPLETE surprise.
    I remain sceptical about Pete. He's the sort of friendly, rational candidate journalists amd non-party people like, but he doesn't have the idealism to fire up the people who will do the selection. If he won, Democrats would be pleased to see the back of Trump, but would they feel excited? And on current polling he isn't better at beating Trump, which would be the other obvious argument.

    As a VP to an elderly President, thougb, absolutely a spot on choice.
    Yet he may win Iowa, which is people doing the selection.
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    novanova Posts: 525
    Byronic said:

    nova said:

    Fishing said:

    Floater said:

    nova said:

    BluerBlue said:

    The "we're the fifth biggest economy so we can afford it" argument from the left is utterly ridiculous. We're one of the biggest economies in the world because of our liberalised, free-market economy, not because of socialism. If we adopted Labour's crazy far-left platform, we'd be on a rapid descent towards poverty as business, investment, and the "evil rich" fled the country as fast as they could...

    Boring.

    Britain is great - we should be able to afford the best pensions and a great health service.

    If you want to stand up after a decade of austerity and say we still can't afford anything, please do, but the public seem to like a "yes we can" attitude :)
    But you have to be realistic

    The public is literately laughing at your policies

    Don't believe me, that's coming from your own focus groups.

    Evidently Corbyn's followers don't grasp the difference between overall and per-capita wealth. China is the world's second largest economy, but nobody would say they can afford better health care than we can. We are about the 15th-20th richest economy per head in the world, so we can afford public services that are fairly average for industrialised countries.
    Not a Corbynista by any stretch of the imagination, and I specifically mentioned that it wasn't per capita - but I'd suggest that bringing in per capita etc. is like trying to argue that big numbers on the side of bus are incorrect because of rebates/net contributions etc. It's a trickier argument to get across.
    It’s a semantic failure from the start. Britain is the 6th BIGGEST economy. As China is the 2nd biggest. We are not the 6th richest.
    Fifth/sixth depending on which reference (although most agree we're heading further down) - and you'll find richest used all over the media - but is semantics the argument any politician wants to make?

    Corbyn tells people we're the sixth richest, so can afford a little extra.
    Boris tells them that we're actually the sixth BIGGEST so have to keep our belts tight.
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    HK election results seem fairly clear:

    https://twitter.com/Birdyword/status/1198758981071564800
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    ozymandiasozymandias Posts: 1,503
    nova said:

    Floater said:

    nova said:

    Floater said:

    nova said:

    BluerBlue said:

    The "we're the fifth biggest economy so we can afford it" argument from the left is utterly ridiculous. We're one of the biggest economies in the world because of our liberalised, free-market economy, not because of socialism. If we adopted Labour's crazy far-left platform, we'd be on a rapid descent towards poverty as business, investment, and the "evil rich" fled the country as fast as they could...

    Boring.

    Britain is great - we should be able to afford the best pensions and a great health service.

    If you want to stand up after a decade of austerity and say we still can't afford anything, please do, but the public seem to like a "yes we can" attitude :)
    But you have to be realistic

    The public is literately laughing at your policies

    Don't believe me, that's coming from your own focus groups.

    I personally don't have any policies. While I appreciate that something like free broadband may not have gone down well - genuine extra money for pensions and the NHS are going to be popular.

    The Tories could have been generous and still undercut Labour massively, but
    their caution may just give Labour a simple positive argument (and let's face it, they need something big to go their way).

    These momentum trolls stay up late now don’t they.
    About as subtle as a brick and also about as persuasive.
    Although mummy and daddy sent them to private school and bought them a little apartment in the city near their little job, they still have the wit, charm and intelligence of a retarded woodlouse.
    Ah. I did give you the benefit of the doubt with the momentum comment - but this is bizarrely rude.

    I had assumed the idea of this website was to discuss what issues might cause movement in the betting markets. I was suggesting that the Tories may have left the door open for Labour to claw back a little (and I mean "a little"), when a touch more generosity (which they've been trailing in terms of rhetoric for months), could have slammed that door shut.
    If you’re invited to a night out with an alcoholic you don’t keep up with him and impress him by having 3 or 4 pints. You stick to soft drinks, have a good time and hope he learns the error of his ways.
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    ByronicByronic Posts: 3,578

    I have been on Buttigieg for months, so I am biased, but for what it is worth I have an increasingly feeling the Dems are about to pull off their own complete surprise nominee.

    If you disagree than he can be laid at 5.5 at the moment.

    If you can lay an outcome at 5.5 it wouldn't be a COMPLETE surprise.
    I remain sceptical about Pete. He's the sort of friendly, rational candidate journalists amd non-party people like, but he doesn't have the idealism to fire up the people who will do the selection. If he won, Democrats would be pleased to see the back of Trump, but would they feel excited? And on current polling he isn't better at beating Trump, which would be the other obvious argument.

    As a VP to an elderly President, thougb, absolutely a spot on choice.
    Yes I agree. Base as it is I don’t think America is ready for a leftish gay president.

    My point was rather that his youth, in this field of wrinklies, gives him a better chance than he would otherwise have had.

    Lamentably, for America and the world, I can see trump winning again.
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    NemtynakhtNemtynakht Posts: 2,311
    edited November 2019
    nova said:

    Floater said:

    nova said:

    Floater said:

    nova said:

    BluerBlue said:

    The "we're the fifth biggest economy so we can afford it" argument from the left is utterly ridiculous. We're one of the biggest economies in the world because of our liberalised, free-market economy, not because of socialism. If we adopted Labour's crazy far-left platform, we'd be on a rapid descent towards poverty as business, investment, and the "evil rich" fled the country as fast as they could...

    Boring.

    Britain is great - we should be able to afford the best pensions and a great health service.

    If you want to stand up after a decade of austerity and say we still can't afford anything, please do, but the public seem to like a "yes we can" attitude :)
    But you have to be realistic

    The public is literately laughing at your policies

    Don't believe me, that's coming from your own focus groups.

    I personally don't have any policies. While I appreciate that something like free broadband may not have gone down well - genuine extra money for pensions and the NHS are going to be popular.

    The Tories could have been generous and still undercut Labour massively, but
    their caution may just give Labour a simple positive argument (and let's face it, they need something big to go their way).

    These momentum trolls stay up late now don’t they.
    About as subtle as a brick and also about as persuasive.
    Although mummy and daddy sent them to private school and bought them a little apartment in the city near their little job, they still have the wit, charm and intelligence of a retarded woodlouse.
    Ah. I did give you the benefit of the doubt with the momentum comment - but this is bizarrely rude.

    I had assumed the idea of this website was to discuss what issues might cause movement in the betting markets. I was suggesting that the Tories may have left the door open for Labour to claw back a little (and I mean "a little"), when a touch more generosity (which they've been trailing in terms of rhetoric for months), could have slammed that door shut.
    Welcome @nova. People are a bit sceptical during the election of new posters who come and promote one side or another. I think you make an interesting point, but really the elephant in the room is Brexit, and having enough financial manoeuvrability to address any issues arising. If it can be suitably managed then I am sure some fiscal loosening may occur as required!
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    novanova Posts: 525

    If you’re invited to a night out with an alcoholic you don’t keep up with him and impress him by having 3 or 4 pints. You stick to soft drinks, have a good time and hope he learns the error of his ways.

    A tad obscure, but appreciate the toned down response.

    I'd reply that most voters quite like a drink. If you've been promising to turn up to a party with a bottle of wine, and you actually arrive with a four pack of Diet Coke, you'll might just make the guy who brings a crate of champagne look even more appealing.
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    brokenwheelbrokenwheel Posts: 3,352

    HK election results seem fairly clear:

    https://twitter.com/Birdyword/status/1198758981071564800

    God bless FPTP...
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    HYUFDHYUFD Posts: 117,007
    Byronic said:

    I have been on Buttigieg for months, so I am biased, but for what it is worth I have an increasingly feeling the Dems are about to pull off their own complete surprise nominee.

    If you disagree than he can be laid at 5.5 at the moment.

    If you can lay an outcome at 5.5 it wouldn't be a COMPLETE surprise.
    I remain sceptical about Pete. He's the sort of friendly, rational candidate journalists amd non-party people like, but he doesn't have the idealism to fire up the people who will do the selection. If he won, Democrats would be pleased to see the back of Trump, but would they feel excited? And on current polling he isn't better at beating Trump, which would be the other obvious argument.

    As a VP to an elderly President, thougb, absolutely a spot on choice.
    Yes I agree. Base as it is I don’t think America is ready for a leftish gay president.

    My point was rather that his youth, in this field of wrinklies, gives him a better chance than he would otherwise have had.

    Lamentably, for America and the world, I can see trump winning again.
    If Boris wins re election I expect Trump will too when the Democrats likely nominate their own Corbynista, Sanders or Warren
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    NemtynakhtNemtynakht Posts: 2,311
    alex_ said:

    The current Labour leadership genuinely seem to believe that the Government can borrow money for any reason at zero cost.


    And forever.
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    ExiledInScotlandExiledInScotland Posts: 1,507
    edited November 2019
    nova said:

    If you’re invited to a night out with an alcoholic you don’t keep up with him and impress him by having 3 or 4 pints. You stick to soft drinks, have a good time and hope he learns the error of his ways.

    A tad obscure, but appreciate the toned down response.

    I'd reply that most voters quite like a drink. If you've been promising to turn up to a party with a bottle of wine, and you actually arrive with a four pack of Diet Coke, you'll might just make the guy who brings a crate of champagne look even more appealing.
    ... until the people at the party realise that the guy with the champagne paid for it with their credit cards
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    Andy_JSAndy_JS Posts: 26,639
    How many have we had now?

    The ones I know of, in addition to this one, are the Tory candidate in Aberdeen North and the LD candidate in Birmingham Hodge Hill.
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    camelcamel Posts: 815
    Andy_JS said:

    How many have we had now?

    The ones I know of, in addition to this one, are the Tory candidate in Aberdeen North and the LD candidate in Birmingham Hodge Hill.
    “Some of my old tweets contain language I’m not proud of, but mostly they’re just the product of someone who talks a lot of shit"

    How to sell yourself to the public as their representative in parliament.
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    brokenwheelbrokenwheel Posts: 3,352
    camel said:

    Andy_JS said:

    How many have we had now?

    The ones I know of, in addition to this one, are the Tory candidate in Aberdeen North and the LD candidate in Birmingham Hodge Hill.
    “Some of my old tweets contain language I’m not proud of, but mostly they’re just the product of someone who talks a lot of shit"

    How to sell yourself to the public as their representative in parliament.
    Hey, at least he's honest.
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    fitalassfitalass Posts: 4,279
    How many candidates from various parties across the UK have now been suspended since the GE was officially called?
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    camelcamel Posts: 815
    Draw in from 11/8 to 8/13.

    Stokes and Denly are England's best two for stickability.
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    Andy_JSAndy_JS Posts: 26,639
    Wikipedia says the Tory candidate in Leeds North East and the Brexit candidate in Glenrothes have also been officially suspended, although of course they can't be removed from the ballot paper.
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    rcs1000rcs1000 Posts: 53,995
    Allow me to weigh in on the Bloomberg bid...

    So, I like Michael Bloomberg a lot. I think he was an excellent Mayor of NYC. He is a brilliant self made man, who still runs his financial media empire. He would probably be an excellent President.

    But.

    I think he's going to find it hard to get traction. Firstly, he's simply not that popular with rank-and-file Democrats. Secondly, skipping the early states is not that great a strategy.

    In ten weeks time, there will be an Iowa winner. A week later, there will be a New Hampshire one. (And possibly they'll be the same person.) If the winner (or winners) of those Primaries are on the moderate side of the Democratic party (whether Buttigieg or Biden), then what's Mr Bloomberg's pitch? Pick me over the other moderate, 'cause...

    Now it's quite possible that Sanders wins both Primaries, and Biden and Buttigieg are flailing (as are all the other moderates, like Harris, Klobuchar, Patrick and Booker)... in which case I guess we could see Bloomberg make a splash. But that's a pretty narrow window of opportunity. 6% chance? I'd say more like a 1% chance.
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    PaulMPaulM Posts: 613
    On Bloomberg,
    rcs1000 said:

    Allow me to weigh in on the Bloomberg bid...

    So, I like Michael Bloomberg a lot. I think he was an excellent Mayor of NYC. He is a brilliant self made man, who still runs his financial media empire. He would probably be an excellent President.

    But.

    I think he's going to find it hard to get traction. Firstly, he's simply not that popular with rank-and-file Democrats. Secondly, skipping the early states is not that great a strategy.

    In ten weeks time, there will be an Iowa winner. A week later, there will be a New Hampshire one. (And possibly they'll be the same person.) If the winner (or winners) of those Primaries are on the moderate side of the Democratic party (whether Buttigieg or Biden), then what's Mr Bloomberg's pitch? Pick me over the other moderate, 'cause...

    Now it's quite possible that Sanders wins both Primaries, and Biden and Buttigieg are flailing (as are all the other moderates, like Harris, Klobuchar, Patrick and Booker)... in which case I guess we could see Bloomberg make a splash. But that's a pretty narrow window of opportunity. 6% chance? I'd say more like a 1% chance.

    If he thought Biden or another broadly pro Wall St Democrat would win the primary he wouldn't be getting involved. I think from a betting perspective perhaps the more relevant consideration is that even if he doesn't win, if he burns hundreds of millions of dollars in the primary, I suspect a large chunk of it will go on assailing some of the other candidates, most likely Warren. And he can start the blitz day one, without having to fundraise.
This discussion has been closed.