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  • JasonJason Posts: 1,614
    edited November 2019

    RobD said:

    nunu2 said:

    RobD said:

    Probably a ton of near-misses for the Blues :p
    Survation showed a massive Tory lead in Reading West.

    I'd be suprised if Deltapoll didnt also show Tories taking loads of seats off Labour.
    To be fair, Reading West is already a Tory seat. So if the Tory lead just leads to building up huge leads in seats they already have, it doesn't mean much.

    The important thing to watch is the marginals, so Reading East for instance.
    Reading West is exactly the kind of seat Labour need to be winning to have any hope of being largest party, let alone a having a majority. This isn't Tories piling up votes in safe seats, it's them piling up votes in marginals.
    Labour have no hope of being the largest party, but they might just hang on to force Johnson from Number 10.
    Their strategy is basically defensive.

    I see it going like this:

    Tories largest party but down seats.

    Labour is a minority Government and we have a referendum. Remain wins.

    Another election is called.
    I don't mean to piss on your parade, but how is this fantasy minority government happening? I cannot see the LDs propping up Corbyn, even if the SNP will stomach it to get a second referendum. And you reckon the PLP will let Corbyn sign the death warrant of the United Kingdom? You're not living in the real world.
  • MarqueeMarkMarqueeMark Posts: 52,485

    RobD said:

    nunu2 said:

    RobD said:

    Probably a ton of near-misses for the Blues :p
    Survation showed a massive Tory lead in Reading West.

    I'd be suprised if Deltapoll didnt also show Tories taking loads of seats off Labour.
    To be fair, Reading West is already a Tory seat. So if the Tory lead just leads to building up huge leads in seats they already have, it doesn't mean much.

    The important thing to watch is the marginals, so Reading East for instance.
    Reading West is exactly the kind of seat Labour need to be winning to have any hope of being largest party, let alone a having a majority. This isn't Tories piling up votes in safe seats, it's them piling up votes in marginals.
    Labour have no hope of being the largest party, but they might just hang on to force Johnson from Number 10.
    Their strategy is basically defensive.

    I see it going like this:

    Tories largest party but down seats.

    Labour is a minority Government and we have a referendum. Remain wins.

    Another election is called.
    Labour hanging on to their seats, letting Libdems and SNP do the heavy lifting.

    There'll be a real cost for helping them if so.
  • ydoethur said:

    Andy_JS said:

    Corbyn won't have enough seats to do anything remotely controversial. I doubt he'll even get railway nationalisation through.

    What he will do, is have a referendum on Brexit where hopefully we Remain and we can see an end to this utter mess.

    People say this, but under our system once someone has been appointed PM you have a lot of powers regardless of whether you're running a majority, minority or coalition government: you get access to the nuclear codes, etc. There's only one type of prime minister.
    At least Corbyn won't use the nuclear codes. Anything else he tries in a minority government can be voted down if the other parties don't support it.
    Yes that's a silly point. I despise the man but literally the last thing i'm worried about is him getting twitchy with the red button.
    Is that a cricketing analogy?
    No, I only make analogies to proper sports.
    Are you suggesting I'm not a proper sport?
    I never realised regicide is a sport. Other than in the Tory party, obviously.
    I have explained on here before that it's a poker name. If it were a sport I judge it less likely to reside in the Tory party than almost anywhere else.
    Is a poker name like a poker face?
    Only to the extent both relate to a card game not a fireside implement.
    So does a good poker name make it hard for people to tell when you are bluffing?
  • CorrectHorseBatteryCorrectHorseBattery Posts: 21,436
    edited November 2019
    Jason said:

    RobD said:

    nunu2 said:

    RobD said:

    Probably a ton of near-misses for the Blues :p
    Survation showed a massive Tory lead in Reading West.

    I'd be suprised if Deltapoll didnt also show Tories taking loads of seats off Labour.
    To be fair, Reading West is already a Tory seat. So if the Tory lead just leads to building up huge leads in seats they already have, it doesn't mean much.

    The important thing to watch is the marginals, so Reading East for instance.
    Reading West is exactly the kind of seat Labour need to be winning to have any hope of being largest party, let alone a having a majority. This isn't Tories piling up votes in safe seats, it's them piling up votes in marginals.
    Labour have no hope of being the largest party, but they might just hang on to force Johnson from Number 10.
    Their strategy is basically defensive.

    I see it going like this:

    Tories largest party but down seats.

    Labour is a minority Government and we have a referendum. Remain wins.

    Another election is called.
    I don't mean to piss on your parade, but how is this fantasy minority government happening? I cannot see the LDs propping up Corbyn, even if the SNP will stomach it to get a second referendum. And you reckon the PLP will let Corbyn sign the death warrant of the United Kingdom? You're not living in the real world.
    If Boris Johnson's Tories are the largest party but they're down on seats, who on Earth will they Govern with?

    Think it's quite likely Corbyn resigns in the scenario to which you refer.
  • wooliedyedwooliedyed Posts: 10,061
    Boris looks to me like he will get an angry majority. The electorate will give him a 30 to 50 seat cushion but are going to be really pissed off about it for 5 years. I wouldn't fancy being a Tory canvasser in 2024
  • Sean_FSean_F Posts: 37,290

    RobD said:

    nunu2 said:

    RobD said:

    Probably a ton of near-misses for the Blues :p
    Survation showed a massive Tory lead in Reading West.

    I'd be suprised if Deltapoll didnt also show Tories taking loads of seats off Labour.
    To be fair, Reading West is already a Tory seat. So if the Tory lead just leads to building up huge leads in seats they already have, it doesn't mean much.

    The important thing to watch is the marginals, so Reading East for instance.
    Reading West is exactly the kind of seat Labour need to be winning to have any hope of being largest party, let alone a having a majority. This isn't Tories piling up votes in safe seats, it's them piling up votes in marginals.
    You've missed my point. The Tories need to gain seats, they increase their voteshare in Reading West and they haven't actually gained anything.

    They need to gain seats from Labour to get a majority. It's like Curtice said, if the Tories aren't winning a majority, they've lost, basically.

    I'm not saying the result won't be interesting and eye-opening, I'm just saying that there are better seats to look at, if what you are interested in is seeing if the Tories will gain a majority.
    If there's a big swing in Reading West, there will be a big swing in other battleground seats.
  • MarqueeMarkMarqueeMark Posts: 52,485
    nunu2 said:

    RobD said:

    Probably a ton of near-misses for the Blues :p
    Survation showed a massive Tory lead in Reading West.

    I'd be suprised if Deltapoll didnt also show Tories taking loads of seats off Labour.
    I thought the Tories were going to get a kicking along the M4 corridor?
  • FoxyFoxy Posts: 48,574

    Interesting responses on Vietnam. Perhaps the consequence is that you really ought not involve yourself in a conflict unless you are prepared to be as ruthless as necessary - and you better have a good idea of how ruthless you will need to be.

    So, for example, intervening to support the Kurds to defeat IS didn't require a high level of ruthlessness, because the Kurds provide a reliable bulwark of support. Intervening to support Assad is requiring more ruthlessness from the Russians, because the base of Assad's support is relatively narrow. But the base of the non-Islamist opposition to Assad is even narrower.

    I think that true. The VC were simply more willing to be ruthless and accept vast numbers of casualties compared to the Americans. For them the war was existential unlike the USA.
  • ReggieCideReggieCide Posts: 4,312
    MikeL said:

    In every single GE, both main parties each win a number of seats narrowly. I think normally they both win around 15 to 20 seats by less than 1,000 votes.

    And you always get some seats being gained by the loser.

    Which is why:

    1) Farage standing down in Con seats does matter - because even if Con wins a majority you should expect some Lab Gains from Con - so Farage standing down helps Con avoid some of those inevitable losses.

    2) Reading West type results do matter - because if 2017 narrow Con wins become easy wins then they won't be in the narrow wins pool this time - which means other seats will be in the narrow wins pool this time.

    I can't recall the numbers but I'm pretty sure there were an unusually large number of close calls last time round, particularly in Scotland.
  • Andy_JSAndy_JS Posts: 32,495

    Andy_JS said:

    At the end of the day, if you want to stop Brexit you're going to need Labour's help. I would vote tactically.

    I'm going to vote Lib Dem in this seat, not at all happy about it but I see that the issue is bigger than party politics this time around.

    Which seat are you in?
    North East Hants. It's incredibly safe but apart from 2017, Lib Dems have always come second here. Doing my bit I guess.
    Poshest seat in the country if I remember correctly. I think I visited it once in order to see Jane Austen's house.
  • Sean_F said:

    RobD said:

    nunu2 said:

    RobD said:

    Probably a ton of near-misses for the Blues :p
    Survation showed a massive Tory lead in Reading West.

    I'd be suprised if Deltapoll didnt also show Tories taking loads of seats off Labour.
    To be fair, Reading West is already a Tory seat. So if the Tory lead just leads to building up huge leads in seats they already have, it doesn't mean much.

    The important thing to watch is the marginals, so Reading East for instance.
    Reading West is exactly the kind of seat Labour need to be winning to have any hope of being largest party, let alone a having a majority. This isn't Tories piling up votes in safe seats, it's them piling up votes in marginals.
    You've missed my point. The Tories need to gain seats, they increase their voteshare in Reading West and they haven't actually gained anything.

    They need to gain seats from Labour to get a majority. It's like Curtice said, if the Tories aren't winning a majority, they've lost, basically.

    I'm not saying the result won't be interesting and eye-opening, I'm just saying that there are better seats to look at, if what you are interested in is seeing if the Tories will gain a majority.
    If there's a big swing in Reading West, there will be a big swing in other battleground seats.
    Well the Survation poll said there is a big swing in that seat. But that's why we need to see the other seats this evening :)
  • Do we think polling firms have become better at single constituency polls? I seem to remember they were really shit last time.
    The Reading W poll has got me thinking though. My model shows Labour gaining it, based on Labour doing better in the SE than the rest of the country I think. But from descriptions of the constituency on here it sounds like its demographic profile is more like the Midlands than the Home Counties, so perhaps this is a seat where something like MRP will do a better job. I am very willing to believe my model is wrong on this seat. But presumably it means Labour is doing better somewhere else?
  • wooliedyedwooliedyed Posts: 10,061
    edited November 2019
    Sean_F said:

    RobD said:

    nunu2 said:

    RobD said:

    Probably a ton of near-misses for the Blues :p
    Survation showed a massive Tory lead in Reading West.

    I'd be suprised if Deltapoll didnt also show Tories taking loads of seats off Labour.
    To be fair, Reading West is already a Tory seat. So if the Tory lead just leads to building up huge leads in seats they already have, it doesn't mean much.

    The important thing to watch is the marginals, so Reading East for instance.
    Reading West is exactly the kind of seat Labour need to be winning to have any hope of being largest party, let alone a having a majority. This isn't Tories piling up votes in safe seats, it's them piling up votes in marginals.
    You've missed my point. The Tories need to gain seats, they increase their voteshare in Reading West and they haven't actually gained anything.

    They need to gain seats from Labour to get a majority. It's like Curtice said, if the Tories aren't winning a majority, they've lost, basically.

    I'm not saying the result won't be interesting and eye-opening, I'm just saying that there are better seats to look at, if what you are interested in is seeing if the Tories will gain a majority.
    If there's a big swing in Reading West, there will be a big swing in other battleground seats.
    Yes that sort of swing brings seats like Birminghams Northfield and Edgbaston, the Bromwichs, Stoke, Coventry into play in the Midlands
  • On the fire, the alarm system also seems to have nearly caused it to be much worse as multiple false alarms made many students ignore the real thing to start with.
  • JasonJason Posts: 1,614

    Jason said:

    RobD said:

    nunu2 said:

    RobD said:

    Probably a ton of near-misses for the Blues :p
    Survation showed a massive Tory lead in Reading West.

    I'd be suprised if Deltapoll didnt also show Tories taking loads of seats off Labour.
    To be fair, Reading West is already a Tory seat. So if the Tory lead just leads to building up huge leads in seats they already have, it doesn't mean much.

    The important thing to watch is the marginals, so Reading East for instance.
    Reading West is exactly the kind of seat Labour need to be winning to have any hope of being largest party, let alone a having a majority. This isn't Tories piling up votes in safe seats, it's them piling up votes in marginals.
    Labour have no hope of being the largest party, but they might just hang on to force Johnson from Number 10.
    Their strategy is basically defensive.

    I see it going like this:

    Tories largest party but down seats.

    Labour is a minority Government and we have a referendum. Remain wins.

    Another election is called.
    I don't mean to piss on your parade, but how is this fantasy minority government happening? I cannot see the LDs propping up Corbyn, even if the SNP will stomach it to get a second referendum. And you reckon the PLP will let Corbyn sign the death warrant of the United Kingdom? You're not living in the real world.
    If Boris Johnson's Tories are the largest party but they're down on seats, who on Earth will they Govern with?

    Think it's quite likely Corbyn resigns in the scenario to which you refer.
    Corbyn resign? Hahahahaha.
  • Andy_JSAndy_JS Posts: 32,495

    Do we think polling firms have become better at single constituency polls? I seem to remember they were really shit last time.
    The Reading W poll has got me thinking though. My model shows Labour gaining it, based on Labour doing better in the SE than the rest of the country I think. But from descriptions of the constituency on here it sounds like its demographic profile is more like the Midlands than the Home Counties, so perhaps this is a seat where something like MRP will do a better job. I am very willing to believe my model is wrong on this seat. But presumably it means Labour is doing better somewhere else?
    It may just be that it takes longer for constituency polls to be published so that by the time we see them they're more likely to be out of date. (Not sure why that is but they always seem to be a few weeks old).
  • Andy_JS said:

    Andy_JS said:

    At the end of the day, if you want to stop Brexit you're going to need Labour's help. I would vote tactically.

    I'm going to vote Lib Dem in this seat, not at all happy about it but I see that the issue is bigger than party politics this time around.

    Which seat are you in?
    North East Hants. It's incredibly safe but apart from 2017, Lib Dems have always come second here. Doing my bit I guess.
    Poshest seat in the country if I remember correctly. I think I visited it once in order to see Jane Austen's house.
    That's it yes. And yes you're right, it is a lot like that.

    Although it's one of those seats quite indicative of the kind of Tory Remain voter they need to keep. So if they see a large swing to the Lib Dems here, they're potentially in trouble.

    The real seats are Guildford and Winchester, which may well go Lib Dem.
  • ozymandiasozymandias Posts: 1,503

    On the fire, the alarm system also seems to have nearly caused it to be much worse as multiple false alarms made many students ignore the real thing to start with.

    As a student our fire alarm was always going off.

    Toast. It was always toast.
  • Jason said:

    Jason said:

    RobD said:

    nunu2 said:

    RobD said:

    Probably a ton of near-misses for the Blues :p
    Survation showed a massive Tory lead in Reading West.

    I'd be suprised if Deltapoll didnt also show Tories taking loads of seats off Labour.
    To be fair, Reading West is already a Tory seat. So if the Tory lead just leads to building up huge leads in seats they already have, it doesn't mean much.

    The important thing to watch is the marginals, so Reading East for instance.
    Reading West is exactly the kind of seat Labour need to be winning to have any hope of being largest party, let alone a having a majority. This isn't Tories piling up votes in safe seats, it's them piling up votes in marginals.
    Labour have no hope of being the largest party, but they might just hang on to force Johnson from Number 10.
    Their strategy is basically defensive.

    I see it going like this:

    Tories largest party but down seats.

    Labour is a minority Government and we have a referendum. Remain wins.

    Another election is called.
    I don't mean to piss on your parade, but how is this fantasy minority government happening? I cannot see the LDs propping up Corbyn, even if the SNP will stomach it to get a second referendum. And you reckon the PLP will let Corbyn sign the death warrant of the United Kingdom? You're not living in the real world.
    If Boris Johnson's Tories are the largest party but they're down on seats, who on Earth will they Govern with?

    Think it's quite likely Corbyn resigns in the scenario to which you refer.
    Corbyn resign? Hahahahaha.
    It'll be Brown all over again. He'll definitely resign rather than have another GE immediately.
  • ReggieCideReggieCide Posts: 4,312

    ydoethur said:

    Andy_JS said:

    Corbyn won't have enough seats to do anything remotely controversial. I doubt he'll even get railway nationalisation through.

    What he will do, is have a referendum on Brexit where hopefully we Remain and we can see an end to this utter mess.

    People say this, but under our system once someone has been appointed PM you have a lot of powers regardless of whether you're running a majority, minority or coalition government: you get access to the nuclear codes, etc. There's only one type of prime minister.
    At least Corbyn won't use the nuclear codes. Anything else he tries in a minority government can be voted down if the other parties don't support it.
    Yes that's a silly point. I despise the man but literally the last thing i'm worried about is him getting twitchy with the red button.
    Is that a cricketing analogy?
    No, I only make analogies to proper sports.
    Are you suggesting I'm not a proper sport?
    I never realised regicide is a sport. Other than in the Tory party, obviously.
    I have explained on here before that it's a poker name. If it were a sport I judge it less likely to reside in the Tory party than almost anywhere else.
    Is a poker name like a poker face?
    Only to the extent both relate to a card game not a fireside implement.
    So does a good poker name make it hard for people to tell when you are bluffing?
    I don't bluff - that for the benefit of any other poker players on here on the off chance that we stumble over each other. The name is obviously only used on line when you can jump up and down and whoop if you've got an unbeatable hand.
  • RobD said:

    nunu2 said:

    RobD said:

    Probably a ton of near-misses for the Blues :p
    Survation showed a massive Tory lead in Reading West.

    I'd be suprised if Deltapoll didnt also show Tories taking loads of seats off Labour.
    To be fair, Reading West is already a Tory seat. So if the Tory lead just leads to building up huge leads in seats they already have, it doesn't mean much.

    The important thing to watch is the marginals, so Reading East for instance.
    Reading West is exactly the kind of seat Labour need to be winning to have any hope of being largest party, let alone a having a majority. This isn't Tories piling up votes in safe seats, it's them piling up votes in marginals.
    Labour have no hope of being the largest party, but they might just hang on to force Johnson from Number 10.
    Their strategy is basically defensive.

    I see it going like this:

    Tories largest party but down seats.

    Labour is a minority Government and we have a referendum. Remain wins.

    Another election is called.
    Yes, I think that's a realistic best case scenario for Labour, but either Labour, or the Liberal Democrats, need to strengthen against the Tories to make it happen.
  • ydoethurydoethur Posts: 71,327
    edited November 2019

    On the fire, the alarm system also seems to have nearly caused it to be much worse as multiple false alarms made many students ignore the real thing to start with.

    When I was living in halls, the alarm system was grossly over-sensitive. On one occasion it was actually set off by somebody breathing on it.

    Admittedly, it was also faulty, but it took months to repair.
  • On the fire, the alarm system also seems to have nearly caused it to be much worse as multiple false alarms made many students ignore the real thing to start with.

    As a student our fire alarm was always going off.

    Toast. It was always toast.
    Tosters are banned in our staff room kitchen after two fire alarms caused by teachers wandering off and forgetting their toast.
    At least you don’t have to worry about the enthusiasm with which most pupils will escape from a class room.
  • Do we think polling firms have become better at single constituency polls? I seem to remember they were really shit last time.
    The Reading W poll has got me thinking though. My model shows Labour gaining it, based on Labour doing better in the SE than the rest of the country I think. But from descriptions of the constituency on here it sounds like its demographic profile is more like the Midlands than the Home Counties, so perhaps this is a seat where something like MRP will do a better job. I am very willing to believe my model is wrong on this seat. But presumably it means Labour is doing better somewhere else?
    Reading West is almost 50/50 Remain/Leave. If the polls are right, it should have swung to Remain by now.

    The Survation poll said:

    https://twitter.com/LeftieStats/status/1195704574042001408

    So 50% of the vote is with the Tories, we can assume that's the Leave side.

    BXP on 7%.

    So Leave is on 57%.

    The Remain side (Labour + others), is on 42%.

    So by that logic Reading West has swung the other way, it's gone to Leave.

    But what we don't know, is the unknowns. Where will they go?
  • glwglw Posts: 9,899
    Muffin13 said:

    Because steel, railways and Royal Mail are mainly one-offs. If Labour wins would BT become a Monopoly and should people who work for the Broadband section of SKY, Virgin Media and other companies start looking for a new job or position? Also, will there be a drop in investment for all these companies?

    I expect that if Labour win the general election a whole load of companies will tear up their existing plans, and do as little work as they are contractually required to do. Which would be a real shame as between them Openreach, Virgin Media, and Cityfibre are now well on track to deliver high-speed broaband to most of the population before Labour's 2030 target. The existing government schemes should pay for the rest of the population. I genuinely believe that Labour could end up delaying the rollout of FTTC/FTTP rather than speeding things up.
  • ReggieCideReggieCide Posts: 4,312
    Foxy said:

    Interesting responses on Vietnam. Perhaps the consequence is that you really ought not involve yourself in a conflict unless you are prepared to be as ruthless as necessary - and you better have a good idea of how ruthless you will need to be.

    So, for example, intervening to support the Kurds to defeat IS didn't require a high level of ruthlessness, because the Kurds provide a reliable bulwark of support. Intervening to support Assad is requiring more ruthlessness from the Russians, because the base of Assad's support is relatively narrow. But the base of the non-Islamist opposition to Assad is even narrower.

    I think that true. The VC were simply more willing to be ruthless and accept vast numbers of casualties compared to the Americans. For them the war was existential unlike the USA.
    This from the internet

    The human costs of the long conflict were harsh for all involved. Not until 1995 did Vietnam release its official estimate of war dead: as many as 2 million civilians on both sides and some 1.1 million North Vietnamese and Viet Cong fighters. The U.S. military has estimated that between 200,000 and 250,000 South Vietnamese soldiers died in the war. In 1982 the Vietnam Veterans Memorial was dedicated in Washington, D.C., inscribed with the names of 57,939 members of U.S. armed forces who had died or were missing as a result of the war. Over the following years, additions to the list have brought the total past 58,200.
  • ydoethurydoethur Posts: 71,327

    On the fire, the alarm system also seems to have nearly caused it to be much worse as multiple false alarms made many students ignore the real thing to start with.

    As a student our fire alarm was always going off.

    Toast. It was always toast.
    On one occasion certain students in Pantycelyn got in at 3am and wanted fried bread.

    They therefore poured oil on the bread and put it in the toaster.
  • GIN1138GIN1138 Posts: 22,243
    Good evening PB :)

    Everyone ready for another Mega Polling Saturday? :D
  • RogerRoger Posts: 19,854
    Have we ever had the worst Foreign Secretary ever and the worst Prime Minister ever being the same person?
  • ydoethurydoethur Posts: 71,327

    On the fire, the alarm system also seems to have nearly caused it to be much worse as multiple false alarms made many students ignore the real thing to start with.

    As a student our fire alarm was always going off.

    Toast. It was always toast.
    Tosters are banned in our staff room kitchen after two fire alarms caused by teachers wandering off and forgetting their toast.
    At least you don’t have to worry about the enthusiasm with which most pupils will escape from a class room.
    Speak for yourself, mine want to stay in lessons!
  • ozymandiasozymandias Posts: 1,503
    ydoethur said:

    On the fire, the alarm system also seems to have nearly caused it to be much worse as multiple false alarms made many students ignore the real thing to start with.

    As a student our fire alarm was always going off.

    Toast. It was always toast.
    On one occasion certain students in Pantycelyn got in at 3am and wanted fried bread.

    They therefore poured oil on the bread and put it in the toaster.
    The wonders of a degree education eh?
  • Do we think polling firms have become better at single constituency polls? I seem to remember they were really shit last time.
    The Reading W poll has got me thinking though. My model shows Labour gaining it, based on Labour doing better in the SE than the rest of the country I think. But from descriptions of the constituency on here it sounds like its demographic profile is more like the Midlands than the Home Counties, so perhaps this is a seat where something like MRP will do a better job. I am very willing to believe my model is wrong on this seat. But presumably it means Labour is doing better somewhere else?
    Reading West is almost 50/50 Remain/Leave. If the polls are right, it should have swung to Remain by now.

    The Survation poll said:

    https://twitter.com/LeftieStats/status/1195704574042001408

    So 50% of the vote is with the Tories, we can assume that's the Leave side.

    BXP on 7%.

    So Leave is on 57%.

    The Remain side (Labour + others), is on 42%.

    So by that logic Reading West has swung the other way, it's gone to Leave.

    But what we don't know, is the unknowns. Where will they go?
    You are assuming no Tory remainers.
  • You'd really hope Labour to be up in these polls this weekend if they are to have any hope of making progress. Although next weekend will be the real test, after the manifesto is released.
  • ydoethurydoethur Posts: 71,327

    ydoethur said:

    On the fire, the alarm system also seems to have nearly caused it to be much worse as multiple false alarms made many students ignore the real thing to start with.

    As a student our fire alarm was always going off.

    Toast. It was always toast.
    On one occasion certain students in Pantycelyn got in at 3am and wanted fried bread.

    They therefore poured oil on the bread and put it in the toaster.
    The wonders of a degree education eh?
    They took too literally the injunction that their intellect was a fire to be ignited.
  • Do we think polling firms have become better at single constituency polls? I seem to remember they were really shit last time.
    The Reading W poll has got me thinking though. My model shows Labour gaining it, based on Labour doing better in the SE than the rest of the country I think. But from descriptions of the constituency on here it sounds like its demographic profile is more like the Midlands than the Home Counties, so perhaps this is a seat where something like MRP will do a better job. I am very willing to believe my model is wrong on this seat. But presumably it means Labour is doing better somewhere else?
    Reading West is almost 50/50 Remain/Leave. If the polls are right, it should have swung to Remain by now.

    The Survation poll said:

    https://twitter.com/LeftieStats/status/1195704574042001408

    So 50% of the vote is with the Tories, we can assume that's the Leave side.

    BXP on 7%.

    So Leave is on 57%.

    The Remain side (Labour + others), is on 42%.

    So by that logic Reading West has swung the other way, it's gone to Leave.

    But what we don't know, is the unknowns. Where will they go?
    You are assuming no Tory remainers.
    Sure - but if they're voting Tory regardless, the strategy of the Lib Dems isn't working.

    Perhaps that's because in this seat a Remain vote = a vote for Labour. And they won't do that.
  • JasonJason Posts: 1,614
    glw said:

    Muffin13 said:

    Because steel, railways and Royal Mail are mainly one-offs. If Labour wins would BT become a Monopoly and should people who work for the Broadband section of SKY, Virgin Media and other companies start looking for a new job or position? Also, will there be a drop in investment for all these companies?

    I expect that if Labour win the general election a whole load of companies will tear up their existing plans, and do as little work as they are contractually required to do. Which would be a real shame as between them Openreach, Virgin Media, and Cityfibre are now well on track to deliver high-speed broaband to most of the population before Labour's 2030 target. The existing government schemes should pay for the rest of the population. I genuinely believe that Labour could end up delaying the rollout of FTTC/FTTP rather than speeding things up.
    Didn't McDonnell say they could nationalise all of the 200 odd broadband providers if necessary? They really are quite mad, and it proves conclusively how few of them know a single thing about private business, wealth creation and employment. The figure of 1.2 trillion extra in debt is a substantial shortfall of the real figure.
  • RobDRobD Posts: 59,922
    GIN1138 said:

    Good evening PB :)

    Everyone ready for another Mega Polling Saturday? :D

    I'm always ready.
  • squareroot2squareroot2 Posts: 6,709

    Do we think polling firms have become better at single constituency polls? I seem to remember they were really shit last time.
    The Reading W poll has got me thinking though. My model shows Labour gaining it, based on Labour doing better in the SE than the rest of the country I think. But from descriptions of the constituency on here it sounds like its demographic profile is more like the Midlands than the Home Counties, so perhaps this is a seat where something like MRP will do a better job. I am very willing to believe my model is wrong on this seat. But presumably it means Labour is doing better somewhere else?
    Reading West is almost 50/50 Remain/Leave. If the polls are right, it should have swung to Remain by now.

    The Survation poll said:

    https://twitter.com/LeftieStats/status/1195704574042001408

    So 50% of the vote is with the Tories, we can assume that's the Leave side.

    BXP on 7%.

    So Leave is on 57%.

    The Remain side (Labour + others), is on 42%.

    So by that logic Reading West has swung the other way, it's gone to Leave.

    But what we don't know, is the unknowns. Where will they go?
    You are assuming no Tory remainers.
    Most Tory remainers IMHO will vote for Boris to keep Corbyn out.
  • GIN1138GIN1138 Posts: 22,243
    RobD said:

    GIN1138 said:

    Good evening PB :)

    Everyone ready for another Mega Polling Saturday? :D

    I'm always ready.
    Locked And Loaded!!!!! :D
  • glwglw Posts: 9,899

    On the fire, the alarm system also seems to have nearly caused it to be much worse as multiple false alarms made many students ignore the real thing to start with.

    On the radio this morning I heard a student say that they had remained in their room with the alarm going, sent someone to go find out what was happening, and ultimately only left the building when another student went knocking on doors. They were on the fourth floor, and must have been in their room for many minutes before finally deciding to leave. To be blunt such behaviour is almost suicidal.
  • ozymandiasozymandias Posts: 1,503
    ydoethur said:

    ydoethur said:

    On the fire, the alarm system also seems to have nearly caused it to be much worse as multiple false alarms made many students ignore the real thing to start with.

    As a student our fire alarm was always going off.

    Toast. It was always toast.
    On one occasion certain students in Pantycelyn got in at 3am and wanted fried bread.

    They therefore poured oil on the bread and put it in the toaster.
    The wonders of a degree education eh?
    They took too literally the injunction that their intellect was a fire to be ignited.
    My student flat mate tried frying an egg on an iron. Didn’t end well but was a laugh after a few Hooch oranges.
  • Do we think polling firms have become better at single constituency polls? I seem to remember they were really shit last time.
    The Reading W poll has got me thinking though. My model shows Labour gaining it, based on Labour doing better in the SE than the rest of the country I think. But from descriptions of the constituency on here it sounds like its demographic profile is more like the Midlands than the Home Counties, so perhaps this is a seat where something like MRP will do a better job. I am very willing to believe my model is wrong on this seat. But presumably it means Labour is doing better somewhere else?
    Reading West is almost 50/50 Remain/Leave. If the polls are right, it should have swung to Remain by now.

    The Survation poll said:

    https://twitter.com/LeftieStats/status/1195704574042001408

    So 50% of the vote is with the Tories, we can assume that's the Leave side.

    BXP on 7%.

    So Leave is on 57%.

    The Remain side (Labour + others), is on 42%.

    So by that logic Reading West has swung the other way, it's gone to Leave.

    But what we don't know, is the unknowns. Where will they go?
    You are assuming no Tory remainers.
    Most Tory remainers IMHO will vote for Boris to keep Corbyn out.
    That's my view too, unfortunately.

    But, they voted for May last time. So it's not new voters.

    If they're piling up votes in seats they already have, it's not much good in terms of actually gaining.
  • Make your polling predictions?
  • squareroot2squareroot2 Posts: 6,709
    Roger said:

    Have we ever had the worst Foreign Secretary ever and the worst Prime Minister ever being the same person?

    Gordon Brown is lucky to be excluded from this awfulness, only because he wasn't F Sec. Otherwise he would "win" hands down
  • ydoethurydoethur Posts: 71,327
    edited November 2019
    Jason said:

    glw said:

    Muffin13 said:

    Because steel, railways and Royal Mail are mainly one-offs. If Labour wins would BT become a Monopoly and should people who work for the Broadband section of SKY, Virgin Media and other companies start looking for a new job or position? Also, will there be a drop in investment for all these companies?

    I expect that if Labour win the general election a whole load of companies will tear up their existing plans, and do as little work as they are contractually required to do. Which would be a real shame as between them Openreach, Virgin Media, and Cityfibre are now well on track to deliver high-speed broaband to most of the population before Labour's 2030 target. The existing government schemes should pay for the rest of the population. I genuinely believe that Labour could end up delaying the rollout of FTTC/FTTP rather than speeding things up.
    Didn't McDonnell say they could nationalise all of the 200 odd broadband providers if necessary? They really are quite mad, and it proves conclusively how few of them know a single thing about private business, wealth creation and employment. The figure of 1.2 trillion extra in debt is a substantial shortfall of the real figure.
    In fairness, I disagree there. I think the real constraint on a Corbyn government is that after Greece and Venezuela nobody would lend to them. So they would have to balance the books immediately to avoid borrowing.

    The severe damage this would cause is one reason I’m so opposed to them getting into Government. But it would be very funny as well.

    At the same time, it does mean no extra debt.
  • GIN1138GIN1138 Posts: 22,243

    Make your polling predictions?

    Lab and Con BOTH up. Gap maintained at around 10%...
  • RobDRobD Posts: 59,922
    GIN1138 said:

    RobD said:

    GIN1138 said:

    Good evening PB :)

    Everyone ready for another Mega Polling Saturday? :D

    I'm always ready.
    Locked And Loaded!!!!! :D
    Crap, no one said anything about being loaded :o
  • ozymandiasozymandias Posts: 1,503

    Make your polling predictions?

    CON at 100%.
  • ydoethurydoethur Posts: 71,327

    ydoethur said:

    ydoethur said:

    On the fire, the alarm system also seems to have nearly caused it to be much worse as multiple false alarms made many students ignore the real thing to start with.

    As a student our fire alarm was always going off.

    Toast. It was always toast.
    On one occasion certain students in Pantycelyn got in at 3am and wanted fried bread.

    They therefore poured oil on the bread and put it in the toaster.
    The wonders of a degree education eh?
    They took too literally the injunction that their intellect was a fire to be ignited.
    My student flat mate tried frying an egg on an iron. Didn’t end well but was a laugh after a few Hooch oranges.
    Smooth operator, or just eggsplosive?
  • ydoethur said:

    On the fire, the alarm system also seems to have nearly caused it to be much worse as multiple false alarms made many students ignore the real thing to start with.

    As a student our fire alarm was always going off.

    Toast. It was always toast.
    Tosters are banned in our staff room kitchen after two fire alarms caused by teachers wandering off and forgetting their toast.
    At least you don’t have to worry about the enthusiasm with which most pupils will escape from a class room.
    Speak for yourself, mine want to stay in lessons!
    Mine don’t, unless it’s raining...

    Hang on, you teach in Wales.
  • RobDRobD Posts: 59,922
    GIN1138 said:

    Make your polling predictions?

    Lab and Con BOTH up. Gap maintained at around 10%...
    Margin of error changes hyped out of all proportion.

    At least that's what I'm planning on doing.
  • SandpitSandpit Posts: 54,509
    edited November 2019
    ydoethur said:

    On the fire, the alarm system also seems to have nearly caused it to be much worse as multiple false alarms made many students ignore the real thing to start with.

    As a student our fire alarm was always going off.

    Toast. It was always toast.
    On one occasion certain students in Pantycelyn got in at 3am and wanted fried bread.

    They therefore poured oil on the bread and put it in the toaster.
    Would it be too much of an in-joke to needlessly stereotype the residents of Pantyceyln?

    (Ifor Evans boy, me).
  • Right, are we getting any polling tonight? YouGov were definitely polling midweek.
  • Roger said:

    Have we ever had the worst Foreign Secretary ever and the worst Prime Minister ever being the same person?

    He got out of the first job without us ending up in a World War, so not all bad!
  • JasonJason Posts: 1,614
    edited November 2019
    ydoethur said:

    Jason said:

    glw said:

    Muffin13 said:

    Because steel, railways and Royal Mail are mainly one-offs. If Labour wins would BT become a Monopoly and should people who work for the Broadband section of SKY, Virgin Media and other companies start looking for a new job or position? Also, will there be a drop in investment for all these companies?

    I expect that if Labour win the general election a whole load of companies will tear up their existing plans, and do as little work as they are contractually required to do. Which would be a real shame as between them Openreach, Virgin Media, and Cityfibre are now well on track to deliver high-speed broaband to most of the population before Labour's 2030 target. The existing government schemes should pay for the rest of the population. I genuinely believe that Labour could end up delaying the rollout of FTTC/FTTP rather than speeding things up.
    Didn't McDonnell say they could nationalise all of the 200 odd broadband providers if necessary? They really are quite mad, and it proves conclusively how few of them know a single thing about private business, wealth creation and employment. The figure of 1.2 trillion extra in debt is a substantial shortfall of the real figure.
    In fairness, I disagree there. I think the real constraint on a Corbyn government is that after Greece and Venezuela nobody would lend to them. So they would have to balance the books immediately to avoid borrowing.

    The severe damage this would cause is one reason I’m so opposed to them getting into Government. But it would be very funny as well.

    At the same time, it does mean no extra debt.
    You have a point about financial institutions not lending to them. Here's a scenario to put to the Corbynistas here - would any of them lend to his government?
  • brokenwheelbrokenwheel Posts: 3,352

    Make your polling predictions?

    Con lead down, PB Tories require change of underwear.
  • AndrewAndrew Posts: 2,900
    GIN1138 said:


    Everyone ready for another Mega Polling Saturday? :D


    I have my dramatic over-reactions already scripted!
  • ozymandiasozymandias Posts: 1,503
    Jason said:

    ydoethur said:

    Jason said:

    glw said:

    Muffin13 said:

    Because steel, railways and Royal Mail are mainly one-offs. If Labour wins would BT become a Monopoly and should people who work for the Broadband section of SKY, Virgin Media and other companies start looking for a new job or position? Also, will there be a drop in investment for all these companies?

    I expect that if Labour win the general election a whole load of companies will tear up their existing plans, and do as little work as they are contractually required to do. Which would be a real shame as between them Openreach, Virgin Media, and Cityfibre are now well on track to deliver high-speed broaband to most of the population before Labour's 2030 target. The existing government schemes should pay for the rest of the population. I genuinely believe that Labour could end up delaying the rollout of FTTC/FTTP rather than speeding things up.
    Didn't McDonnell say they could nationalise all of the 200 odd broadband providers if necessary? They really are quite mad, and it proves conclusively how few of them know a single thing about private business, wealth creation and employment. The figure of 1.2 trillion extra in debt is a substantial shortfall of the real figure.
    In fairness, I disagree there. I think the real constraint on a Corbyn government is that after Greece and Venezuela nobody would lend to them. So they would have to balance the books immediately to avoid borrowing.

    The severe damage this would cause is one reason I’m so opposed to them getting into Government. But it would be very funny as well.

    At the same time, it does mean no extra debt.
    You have a point about financial institutions not lending to them. Here's a scenario to put to the Corbynistas here - would any of them lend to his government?
    They would just fire up the printing presses. Hope everyone’s got their wheel barrows ready and brushed up on how to express the power of ten.
  • ydoethurydoethur Posts: 71,327

    ydoethur said:

    On the fire, the alarm system also seems to have nearly caused it to be much worse as multiple false alarms made many students ignore the real thing to start with.

    As a student our fire alarm was always going off.

    Toast. It was always toast.
    Tosters are banned in our staff room kitchen after two fire alarms caused by teachers wandering off and forgetting their toast.
    At least you don’t have to worry about the enthusiasm with which most pupils will escape from a class room.
    Speak for yourself, mine want to stay in lessons!
    Mine don’t, unless it’s raining...

    Hang on, you teach in Wales.
    Do I? That's sudden. I never knew South Staffordshire was in Wales. Indeed, I even thought our MP was so unWelsh, despite his name, that he was in charge of the English education system...
  • GIN1138GIN1138 Posts: 22,243

    Right, are we getting any polling tonight? YouGov were definitely polling midweek.

    Yep. You[WHAT]Gov and DeltaPoll are assured. Almost certainly Opinium and probably more besides...
  • Andrew said:

    GIN1138 said:


    Everyone ready for another Mega Polling Saturday? :D


    I have my dramatic over-reactions already scripted!
    Psephology is a Blairite/Centrist Plot?

    YouGov are owned by a bunch of Trots/Remoaners?
  • ydoethurydoethur Posts: 71,327
    Sandpit said:

    ydoethur said:

    On the fire, the alarm system also seems to have nearly caused it to be much worse as multiple false alarms made many students ignore the real thing to start with.

    As a student our fire alarm was always going off.

    Toast. It was always toast.
    On one occasion certain students in Pantycelyn got in at 3am and wanted fried bread.

    They therefore poured oil on the bread and put it in the toaster.
    Would it be too much of an in-joke to needlessly stereotype the residents of Pantyceyln?

    (Ifor Evans boy, me).
    Well, they were definitely sheepish.
  • Do we think polling firms have become better at single constituency polls? I seem to remember they were really shit last time.
    The Reading W poll has got me thinking though. My model shows Labour gaining it, based on Labour doing better in the SE than the rest of the country I think. But from descriptions of the constituency on here it sounds like its demographic profile is more like the Midlands than the Home Counties, so perhaps this is a seat where something like MRP will do a better job. I am very willing to believe my model is wrong on this seat. But presumably it means Labour is doing better somewhere else?
    Reading West is almost 50/50 Remain/Leave. If the polls are right, it should have swung to Remain by now.

    The Survation poll said:

    https://twitter.com/LeftieStats/status/1195704574042001408

    So 50% of the vote is with the Tories, we can assume that's the Leave side.

    BXP on 7%.

    So Leave is on 57%.

    The Remain side (Labour + others), is on 42%.

    So by that logic Reading West has swung the other way, it's gone to Leave.

    But what we don't know, is the unknowns. Where will they go?
    You are assuming no Tory remainers.
    Sure - but if they're voting Tory regardless, the strategy of the Lib Dems isn't working.

    Perhaps that's because in this seat a Remain vote = a vote for Labour. And they won't do that.
    I would say there are two types of Tory remainers: one sort are those who accept the original vote and are now more worried by Corbyn, and those that did not accept it but are now more worried by Corbyn.
  • NooNoo Posts: 2,380

    Noo said:

    Noo said:

    Noo said:

    Good evening, islamophobes

    Good evening, antisemite.
    Point to a single antisemitic thing I've ever said and I'll let that stand.
    Besides being a retort to what you said sure do you remember conflating the burqa with the Jewish skullcap?
    I remember saying that those who attack people for choosing to wear a burqa are equally as bad as those who attack people who choose to wear a kippah.
    I still can't understand why you thought that was so controversial. All I want is for people irrespective of their faith to be left alone and not intimidated or bullied. Your remarkable outburst in response to that radical notion was... interesting.
    That's not what was said, I would agree with that, attacking anyone under any circumstances is wrong.
    You can reread the conversation here:
    https://politicalbetting.vanillacommunity.com/discussion/7953/politicalbetting-com-blog-archive-new-pb-polling-matters-podcast-where-do-we-go-from-here-and/p6

    I was very clearly arguing for tolerance in the way people choose to dress by saying that we wouldn't find it acceptable for someone to ridicule the yarmulke (although I spelled it wrong, so apologies for that).

    You then decided to drag the KKK into the discussion. Later you doubled down on that comparison.
  • nunu2nunu2 Posts: 1,453

    nunu2 said:

    RobD said:

    Probably a ton of near-misses for the Blues :p
    Survation showed a massive Tory lead in Reading West.

    I'd be suprised if Deltapoll didnt also show Tories taking loads of seats off Labour.
    I thought the Tories were going to get a kicking along the M4 corridor?
    In tory vs Libdem seats yes. Not against Labour
  • IanB2IanB2 Posts: 49,849

    Do we think polling firms have become better at single constituency polls? I seem to remember they were really shit last time.
    The Reading W poll has got me thinking though. My model shows Labour gaining it, based on Labour doing better in the SE than the rest of the country I think. But from descriptions of the constituency on here it sounds like its demographic profile is more like the Midlands than the Home Counties, so perhaps this is a seat where something like MRP will do a better job. I am very willing to believe my model is wrong on this seat. But presumably it means Labour is doing better somewhere else?
    Reading West is almost 50/50 Remain/Leave. If the polls are right, it should have swung to Remain by now.

    The Survation poll said:

    https://twitter.com/LeftieStats/status/1195704574042001408

    So 50% of the vote is with the Tories, we can assume that's the Leave side.

    BXP on 7%.

    So Leave is on 57%.

    The Remain side (Labour + others), is on 42%.

    So by that logic Reading West has swung the other way, it's gone to Leave.

    But what we don't know, is the unknowns. Where will they go?
    We know from other polls that somewhere around two thirds of Tory remainers are still with the Tories
  • Andy_JSAndy_JS Posts: 32,495
    edited November 2019

    Do we think polling firms have become better at single constituency polls? I seem to remember they were really shit last time.
    The Reading W poll has got me thinking though. My model shows Labour gaining it, based on Labour doing better in the SE than the rest of the country I think. But from descriptions of the constituency on here it sounds like its demographic profile is more like the Midlands than the Home Counties, so perhaps this is a seat where something like MRP will do a better job. I am very willing to believe my model is wrong on this seat. But presumably it means Labour is doing better somewhere else?
    Reading West is almost 50/50 Remain/Leave. If the polls are right, it should have swung to Remain by now.

    The Survation poll said:

    https://twitter.com/LeftieStats/status/1195704574042001408

    So 50% of the vote is with the Tories, we can assume that's the Leave side.

    BXP on 7%.

    So Leave is on 57%.

    The Remain side (Labour + others), is on 42%.

    So by that logic Reading West has swung the other way, it's gone to Leave.

    But what we don't know, is the unknowns. Where will they go?
    A poll in Reading East would be far more interesting.

    Last time the result was Lab 49%, Con 42%, LD 6%, Grn 2%.
  • nico67nico67 Posts: 4,502
    edited November 2019
    Johnson getting a deal was bad news for the Lib Dems .

    But for Remainers like me a relief . My worst nightmare was a no deal . Or a breakdown in negotiations and an election fought on Bozo trashing the EU daily and trashing relations completely.

    Where it became no deal Tories against the opposition. The stakes are very high in this election as ever but would have been even higher if there was a chance of no deal at the end .

    The deal has allowed the Tories to stop a flood of Remainers to the Lib Dems , unless the campaign suddenly moves to the future relationship then I can’t see them losing many more to the Lib Dems .

    For all the talk of the Brexit election , the sum total of debate so far has been zip . Stop Brexit v Get Brexit Done is it so far.
  • NigelbNigelb Posts: 70,938
    ydoethur said:

    Jason said:

    glw said:

    Muffin13 said:

    Because steel, railways and Royal Mail are mainly one-offs. If Labour wins would BT become a Monopoly and should people who work for the Broadband section of SKY, Virgin Media and other companies start looking for a new job or position? Also, will there be a drop in investment for all these companies?

    I expect that if Labour win the general election a whole load of companies will tear up their existing plans, and do as little work as they are contractually required to do. Which would be a real shame as between them Openreach, Virgin Media, and Cityfibre are now well on track to deliver high-speed broaband to most of the population before Labour's 2030 target. The existing government schemes should pay for the rest of the population. I genuinely believe that Labour could end up delaying the rollout of FTTC/FTTP rather than speeding things up.
    Didn't McDonnell say they could nationalise all of the 200 odd broadband providers if necessary? They really are quite mad, and it proves conclusively how few of them know a single thing about private business, wealth creation and employment. The figure of 1.2 trillion extra in debt is a substantial shortfall of the real figure.
    In fairness, I disagree there. I think the real constraint on a Corbyn government is that after Greece and Venezuela nobody would lend to them. So they would have to balance the books immediately to avoid borrowing.

    The severe damage this would cause is one reason I’m so opposed to them getting into Government. But it would be very funny as well.

    At the same time, it does mean no extra debt.
    Which ignores the likely capital flight in the private sector as well.
    A Corbyn government would be amusing only for the most determined students of black humour.
  • I wonder if all the young people that have registered to vote will actually bother. It seems like this happens every time and they sit at home.
  • The scenario that tests our Constitutional assumptions is where the Tories lose net seats (-20 ish to 295), Labour lose net seats (-20 ish to 250), the SNP gain net seats (+15 ish to 50), the Liberal Democrats gain net seats (+20 ish to 30) and there are 25 ish others/NI.

    It would be on a real knife edge whether Labour+SNP+PC+Grn would outnumber Conservative+DUP. It's possible we'd see a few Labour backbenchers speak out against Corbyn as PM in that scenario, as in 2010 with Brown. I've no idea what would happen.

    At the moment I don't expect so many SNP/Liberal Democrat gains and more Labour losses, giving the Tories at least some level of formal majority, but it's an outcome that's possible if Johnson stumbles, and/or the polls are all systematically inflating his vote share - as Mike reminds us did happen with the London Mayor elections.
  • Andy_JSAndy_JS Posts: 32,495
    edited November 2019

    I wonder if all the young people that have registered to vote will actually bother. It seems like this happens every time and they sit at home.

    What I really can't understand is people who go to the trouble of registering to vote and then don't actually bother to vote on the day (or by post). Apparently there are a lot of people in this category at each election.
  • glwglw Posts: 9,899
    edited November 2019
    Jason said:

    Didn't McDonnell say they could nationalise all of the 200 odd broadband providers if necessary? They really are quite mad, and it proves conclusively how few of them know a single thing about private business, wealth creation and employment. The figure of 1.2 trillion extra in debt is a substantial shortfall of the real figure.

    Nationalisation would have been a much more plausible solution in 2005, or 2010. It makes little sense in 2019 as there are now multiple companies investing heavily to make high-speed broadband widely available. By my reckoning somewhere between 2.5 to 3.0 million new premises should get FTTC or FTTP each year, and development will likely go faster than that in later years, and by the middle of the next decade most of the job should be done.

    If Labour win I would expect the plug to be pulled on those plans. Why would a company invest billions of pounds to have a Labour government give them a government bond to cover the cost, with a value that Parliament decides upon? If those companies wanted govnerment debt they could acquire it right now without all the trouble of digging up every street in Britain.
  • Jason said:

    ydoethur said:

    Jason said:

    glw said:

    Muffin13 said:

    Because steel, railways and Royal Mail are mainly one-offs. If Labour wins would BT become a Monopoly and should people who work for the Broadband section of SKY, Virgin Media and other companies start looking for a new job or position? Also, will there be a drop in investment for all these companies?

    I expect that if Labour win the general election a whole load of companies will tear up their existing plans, and do as little work as they are contractually required to do. Which would be a real shame as between them Openreach, Virgin Media, and Cityfibre are now well on track to deliver high-speed broaband to most of the population before Labour's 2030 target. The existing government schemes should pay for the rest of the population. I genuinely believe that Labour could end up delaying the rollout of FTTC/FTTP rather than speeding things up.
    Didn't McDonnell say they could nationalise all of the 200 odd broadband providers if necessary? They really are quite mad, and it proves conclusively how few of them know a single thing about private business, wealth creation and employment. The figure of 1.2 trillion extra in debt is a substantial shortfall of the real figure.
    In fairness, I disagree there. I think the real constraint on a Corbyn government is that after Greece and Venezuela nobody would lend to them. So they would have to balance the books immediately to avoid borrowing.

    The severe damage this would cause is one reason I’m so opposed to them getting into Government. But it would be very funny as well.

    At the same time, it does mean no extra debt.
    You have a point about financial institutions not lending to them. Here's a scenario to put to the Corbynistas here - would any of them lend to his government?
    Not just that, but capital flight before any controls could be put in would be huge.
  • I wonder if all the young people that have registered to vote will actually bother. It seems like this happens every time and they sit at home.

    There's a stronger chance of a PensionerQuake than a YouthQuake.
  • Roger said:

    Have we ever had the worst Foreign Secretary ever and the worst Prime Minister ever being the same person?

    Beckett and Brown in 2007 ?
  • mattmatt Posts: 3,789
    Jason said:

    glw said:

    Muffin13 said:

    Because steel, railways and Royal Mail are mainly one-offs. If Labour wins would BT become a Monopoly and should people who work for the Broadband section of SKY, Virgin Media and other companies start looking for a new job or position? Also, will there be a drop in investment for all these companies?

    I expect that if Labour win the general election a whole load of companies will tear up their existing plans, and do as little work as they are contractually required to do. Which would be a real shame as between them Openreach, Virgin Media, and Cityfibre are now well on track to deliver high-speed broaband to most of the population before Labour's 2030 target. The existing government schemes should pay for the rest of the population. I genuinely believe that Labour could end up delaying the rollout of FTTC/FTTP rather than speeding things up.
    Didn't McDonnell say they could nationalise all of the 200 odd broadband providers if necessary? They really are quite mad, and it proves conclusively how few of them know a single thing about private business, wealth creation and employment. The figure of 1.2 trillion extra in debt is a substantial shortfall of the real figure.
    If you believe that all morality is vested in state provision and the only workers with real value work for the state then wealth creation is irrelevant. The state will provide.
  • ydoethurydoethur Posts: 71,327

    Roger said:

    Have we ever had the worst Foreign Secretary ever and the worst Prime Minister ever being the same person?

    Beckett and Brown in 2007 ?
    Everyone is overthinking this. The answer is clearly ‘no,’ as if anyone else had combined the two offices and done badly Johnson means they are no longer the worst.
  • NooNoo Posts: 2,380

    Roger said:

    Have we ever had the worst Foreign Secretary ever and the worst Prime Minister ever being the same person?

    Beckett and Brown in 2007 ?
    ...they aren't the same person
  • Jason said:

    ydoethur said:

    Jason said:

    glw said:

    Muffin13 said:

    Because steel, railways and Royal Mail are mainly one-offs. If Labour wins would BT become a Monopoly and should people who work for the Broadband section of SKY, Virgin Media and other companies start looking for a new job or position? Also, will there be a drop in investment for all these companies?

    I expect that if Labour win the general election a whole load of companies will tear up their existing plans, and do as little work as they are contractually required to do. Which would be a real shame as between them Openreach, Virgin Media, and Cityfibre are now well on track to deliver high-speed broaband to most of the population before Labour's 2030 target. The existing government schemes should pay for the rest of the population. I genuinely believe that Labour could end up delaying the rollout of FTTC/FTTP rather than speeding things up.
    Didn't McDonnell say they could nationalise all of the 200 odd broadband providers if necessary? They really are quite mad, and it proves conclusively how few of them know a single thing about private business, wealth creation and employment. The figure of 1.2 trillion extra in debt is a substantial shortfall of the real figure.
    In fairness, I disagree there. I think the real constraint on a Corbyn government is that after Greece and Venezuela nobody would lend to them. So they would have to balance the books immediately to avoid borrowing.

    The severe damage this would cause is one reason I’m so opposed to them getting into Government. But it would be very funny as well.

    At the same time, it does mean no extra debt.
    You have a point about financial institutions not lending to them. Here's a scenario to put to the Corbynistas here - would any of them lend to his government?
    They would just fire up the printing presses. Hope everyone’s got their wheel barrows ready and brushed up on how to express the power of ten.
    Now that I can do.
  • Good question raised above.

    What is the general view here on the polls? Do you believe them? Do you think the gap is wider or smaller in reality?
  • GallowgateGallowgate Posts: 19,437
    edited November 2019
    Jason said:

    It won't stop Labour attributing blame to the government, though. Let's not pretend they won't use this to try and score points.
    I’m sorry but the Government IS to blame.

    Grenfell was over 2 years ago and the Government has done absolutely nothing to force landlords and building owners to make them safe.

    It’s an utter disgrace.
  • ydoethur said:

    ydoethur said:

    On the fire, the alarm system also seems to have nearly caused it to be much worse as multiple false alarms made many students ignore the real thing to start with.

    As a student our fire alarm was always going off.

    Toast. It was always toast.
    Tosters are banned in our staff room kitchen after two fire alarms caused by teachers wandering off and forgetting their toast.
    At least you don’t have to worry about the enthusiasm with which most pupils will escape from a class room.
    Speak for yourself, mine want to stay in lessons!
    Mine don’t, unless it’s raining...

    Hang on, you teach in Wales.
    Do I? That's sudden. I never knew South Staffordshire was in Wales. Indeed, I even thought our MP was so unWelsh, despite his name, that he was in charge of the English education system...
    You must just be a better teacher then.☹️
  • ydoethurydoethur Posts: 71,327

    Jason said:

    ydoethur said:

    Jason said:

    glw said:

    Muffin13 said:

    Because steel, railways and Royal Mail are mainly one-offs. If Labour wins would BT become a Monopoly and should people who work for the Broadband section of SKY, Virgin Media and other companies start looking for a new job or position? Also, will there be a drop in investment for all these companies?

    I expect that if Labour win the general election a whole load of companies will tear up their existing plans, and do as little work as they are contractually required to do. Which would be a real shame as between them Openreach, Virgin Media, and Cityfibre are now well on track to deliver high-speed broaband to most of the population before Labour's 2030 target. The existing government schemes should pay for the rest of the population. I genuinely believe that Labour could end up delaying the rollout of FTTC/FTTP rather than speeding things up.
    Didn't McDonnell say they could nationalise all of the 200 odd broadband providers if necessary? They really are quite mad, and it proves conclusively how few of them know a single thing about private business, wealth creation and employment. The figure of 1.2 trillion extra in debt is a substantial shortfall of the real figure.
    In fairness, I disagree there. I think the real constraint on a Corbyn government is that after Greece and Venezuela nobody would lend to them. So they would have to balance the books immediately to avoid borrowing.

    The severe damage this would cause is one reason I’m so opposed to them getting into Government. But it would be very funny as well.

    At the same time, it does mean no extra debt.
    You have a point about financial institutions not lending to them. Here's a scenario to put to the Corbynistas here - would any of them lend to his government?
    They would just fire up the printing presses. Hope everyone’s got their wheel barrows ready and brushed up on how to express the power of ten.
    Now that I can do.
    If you can multiply in factors, does that make you a square? :smile:
  • I wonder if all the young people that have registered to vote will actually bother. It seems like this happens every time and they sit at home.

    There was some talk around the time that the election was called that a December election could dampen turnout amongst older voters. I always thought that was a bit of a strange assertion. In my experience the older you are the more likely you are to consider voting as your civic duty, and a little bit of dark and cold and rain won't stop them from duly trooping to the polling stations (or for those too infirm, voting by post).

    If the end of the world was upon us on polling day and fire and brimstone was raining down from the skies, you'd still expect the elderly to turn up to vote.

    The question is whether the winter election will dampen YOUTH turnout.
  • ydoethurydoethur Posts: 71,327

    ydoethur said:

    ydoethur said:

    On the fire, the alarm system also seems to have nearly caused it to be much worse as multiple false alarms made many students ignore the real thing to start with.

    As a student our fire alarm was always going off.

    Toast. It was always toast.
    Tosters are banned in our staff room kitchen after two fire alarms caused by teachers wandering off and forgetting their toast.
    At least you don’t have to worry about the enthusiasm with which most pupils will escape from a class room.
    Speak for yourself, mine want to stay in lessons!
    Mine don’t, unless it’s raining...

    Hang on, you teach in Wales.
    Do I? That's sudden. I never knew South Staffordshire was in Wales. Indeed, I even thought our MP was so unWelsh, despite his name, that he was in charge of the English education system...
    You must just be a better teacher then.☹️
    If I say I teach a more interesting subject, will that make me unpopular?

    Thing is, after we get past Einstein there are just no decent sex maniacs in Physics.
  • ydoethur said:

    Jason said:

    ydoethur said:

    Jason said:

    glw said:

    Muffin13 said:

    Because steel, railways and Royal Mail are mainly one-offs. If Labour wins would BT become a Monopoly and should people who work for the Broadband section of SKY, Virgin Media and other companies start looking for a new job or position? Also, will there be a drop in investment for all these companies?

    I expect that if Labour win the general election a whole load of companies will tear up their existing plans, and do as little work as they are contractually required to do. Which would be a real shame as between them Openreach, Virgin Media, and Cityfibre are now well on track to deliver high-speed broaband to most of the population before Labour's 2030 target. The existing government schemes should pay for the rest of the population. I genuinely believe that Labour could end up delaying the rollout of FTTC/FTTP rather than speeding things up.
    Didn't McDonnell say they could nationalise all of the 200 odd broadband providers if necessary? They really are quite mad, and it proves conclusively how few of them know a single thing about private business, wealth creation and employment. The figure of 1.2 trillion extra in debt is a substantial shortfall of the real figure.
    In fairness, I disagree there. I think the real constraint on a Corbyn government is that after Greece and Venezuela nobody would lend to them. So they would have to balance the books immediately to avoid borrowing.

    The severe damage this would cause is one reason I’m so opposed to them getting into Government. But it would be very funny as well.

    At the same time, it does mean no extra debt.
    You have a point about financial institutions not lending to them. Here's a scenario to put to the Corbynistas here - would any of them lend to his government?
    They would just fire up the printing presses. Hope everyone’s got their wheel barrows ready and brushed up on how to express the power of ten.
    Now that I can do.
    If you can multiply in factors, does that make you a square? :smile:
    I've told you before. You know where to find your coat :)
  • NooNoo Posts: 2,380

    Good question raised above.

    What is the general view here on the polls? Do you believe them? Do you think the gap is wider or smaller in reality?

    The thing you need to keep in mind is that different pollsters have different turnout models. It's always a key issue in any election, but I have a feeling it's going to be especially important this time. Whoever has the "right" turnout model has a running start. But we won't know until after the result come through :)
  • ydoethur said:

    Roger said:

    Have we ever had the worst Foreign Secretary ever and the worst Prime Minister ever being the same person?

    Beckett and Brown in 2007 ?
    Everyone is overthinking this. The answer is clearly ‘no,’ as if anyone else had combined the two offices and done badly Johnson means they are no longer the worst.
    Boris far better than Brown - no crash and hasn’t bottled an election.
  • Do we think polling firms have become better at single constituency polls? I seem to remember they were really shit last time.
    The Reading W poll has got me thinking though. My model shows Labour gaining it, based on Labour doing better in the SE than the rest of the country I think. But from descriptions of the constituency on here it sounds like its demographic profile is more like the Midlands than the Home Counties, so perhaps this is a seat where something like MRP will do a better job. I am very willing to believe my model is wrong on this seat. But presumably it means Labour is doing better somewhere else?
    Reading West is almost 50/50 Remain/Leave. If the polls are right, it should have swung to Remain by now.

    The Survation poll said:

    https://twitter.com/LeftieStats/status/1195704574042001408

    So 50% of the vote is with the Tories, we can assume that's the Leave side.

    BXP on 7%.

    So Leave is on 57%.

    The Remain side (Labour + others), is on 42%.

    So by that logic Reading West has swung the other way, it's gone to Leave.

    But what we don't know, is the unknowns. Where will they go?
    You are assuming no Tory remainers.
    The assumption is more completely that the number of Tory Remainers is balanced by the number of Labour Leavers.

    That's a more reasonable assumption, but could still end up wrong.
  • ydoethurydoethur Posts: 71,327

    ydoethur said:

    Jason said:

    ydoethur said:

    Jason said:

    glw said:

    Muffin13 said:

    Because steel, railways and Royal Mail are mainly one-offs. If Labour wins would BT become a Monopoly and should people who work for the Broadband section of SKY, Virgin Media and other companies start looking for a new job or position? Also, will there be a drop in investment for all these companies?

    I expect that if Labour win the general election a whole load of companies will tear up their existing plans, and do as little work as they are contractually required to do. Which would be a real shame as between them Openreach, Virgin Media, and Cityfibre are now well on track to deliver high-speed broaband to most of the population before Labour's 2030 target. The existing government schemes should pay for the rest of the population. I genuinely believe that Labour could end up delaying the rollout of FTTC/FTTP rather than speeding things up.
    Didn't McDonnell say they could nationalise all of the 200 odd broadband providers if necessary? They really are quite mad, and it proves conclusively how few of them know a single thing about private business, wealth creation and employment. The figure of 1.2 trillion extra in debt is a substantial shortfall of the real figure.
    In fairness, I disagree there. I think the real constraint on a Corbyn government is that after Greece and Venezuela nobody would lend to them. So they would have to balance the books immediately to avoid borrowing.

    The severe damage this would cause is one reason I’m so opposed to them getting into Government. But it would be very funny as well.

    At the same time, it does mean no extra debt.
    You have a point about financial institutions not lending to them. Here's a scenario to put to the Corbynistas here - would any of them lend to his government?
    They would just fire up the printing presses. Hope everyone’s got their wheel barrows ready and brushed up on how to express the power of ten.
    Now that I can do.
    If you can multiply in factors, does that make you a square? :smile:
    I've told you before. You know where to find your coat :)
    You liked the post, so I know you were rooting for me really.

    Stop throwing my fecking coat at me!
  • DadgeDadge Posts: 2,052

    Do we think polling firms have become better at single constituency polls? I seem to remember they were really shit last time.
    The Reading W poll has got me thinking though. My model shows Labour gaining it, based on Labour doing better in the SE than the rest of the country I think. But from descriptions of the constituency on here it sounds like its demographic profile is more like the Midlands than the Home Counties, so perhaps this is a seat where something like MRP will do a better job. I am very willing to believe my model is wrong on this seat. But presumably it means Labour is doing better somewhere else?
    Reading West is almost 50/50 Remain/Leave. If the polls are right, it should have swung to Remain by now.

    The Survation poll said:

    https://twitter.com/LeftieStats/status/1195704574042001408

    So 50% of the vote is with the Tories, we can assume that's the Leave side.

    BXP on 7%.

    So Leave is on 57%.

    The Remain side (Labour + others), is on 42%.

    So by that logic Reading West has swung the other way, it's gone to Leave.

    But what we don't know, is the unknowns. Where will they go?
    There are still quite a lot of Tory Remainers, and the proportion will vary slightly from seat to seat.
  • ydoethur said:

    Jason said:

    ydoethur said:

    Jason said:

    glw said:

    Muffin13 said:

    Because steel, railways and Royal Mail are mainly one-offs. If Labour wins would BT become a Monopoly and should people who work for the Broadband section of SKY, Virgin Media and other companies start looking for a new job or position? Also, will there be a drop in investment for all these companies?

    I expect that if Labour win the general election a whole load of companies will tear up their existing plans, and do as little work as they are contractually required to do. Which would be a real shame as between them Openreach, Virgin Media, and Cityfibre are now well on track to deliver high-speed broaband to most of the population before Labour's 2030 target. The existing government schemes should pay for the rest of the population. I genuinely believe that Labour could end up delaying the rollout of FTTC/FTTP rather than speeding things up.
    Didn't McDonnell say they could nationalise all of the 200 odd broadband providers if necessary? They really are quite mad, and it proves conclusively how few of them know a single thing about private business, wealth creation and employment. The figure of 1.2 trillion extra in debt is a substantial shortfall of the real figure.
    In fairness, I disagree there. I think the real constraint on a Corbyn government is that after Greece and Venezuela nobody would lend to them. So they would have to balance the books immediately to avoid borrowing.

    The severe damage this would cause is one reason I’m so opposed to them getting into Government. But it would be very funny as well.

    At the same time, it does mean no extra debt.
    You have a point about financial institutions not lending to them. Here's a scenario to put to the Corbynistas here - would any of them lend to his government?
    They would just fire up the printing presses. Hope everyone’s got their wheel barrows ready and brushed up on how to express the power of ten.
    Now that I can do.
    If you can multiply in factors, does that make you a square? :smile:
    I’m so square I’m a tesseract.
  • ydoethurydoethur Posts: 71,327

    ydoethur said:

    Jason said:

    ydoethur said:

    Jason said:

    glw said:

    Muffin13 said:

    Because steel, railways and Royal Mail are mainly one-offs. If Labour wins would BT become a Monopoly and should people who work for the Broadband section of SKY, Virgin Media and other companies start looking for a new job or position? Also, will there be a drop in investment for all these companies?

    I expect that if Labour win the general election a whole load of companies will tear up their existing plans, and do as little work as they are contractually required to do. Which would be a real shame as between them Openreach, Virgin Media, and Cityfibre are now well on track to deliver high-speed broaband to most of the population before Labour's 2030 target. The existing government schemes should pay for the rest of the population. I genuinely believe that Labour could end up delaying the rollout of FTTC/FTTP rather than speeding things up.
    Didn't McDonnell say they could nationalise all of the 200 odd broadband providers if necessary? They really are quite mad, and it proves conclusively how few of them know a single thing about private business, wealth creation and employment. The figure of 1.2 trillion extra in debt is a substantial shortfall of the real figure.
    In fairness, I disagree there. I think the real constraint on a Corbyn government is that after Greece and Venezuela nobody would lend to them. So they would have to balance the books immediately to avoid borrowing.

    The severe damage this would cause is one reason I’m so opposed to them getting into Government. But it would be very funny as well.

    At the same time, it does mean no extra debt.
    You have a point about financial institutions not lending to them. Here's a scenario to put to the Corbynistas here - would any of them lend to his government?
    They would just fire up the printing presses. Hope everyone’s got their wheel barrows ready and brushed up on how to express the power of ten.
    Now that I can do.
    If you can multiply in factors, does that make you a square? :smile:
    I’m so square I’m a tesseract.
    I admit it. You tanned me there.
  • glw said:

    Jason said:

    Didn't McDonnell say they could nationalise all of the 200 odd broadband providers if necessary? They really are quite mad, and it proves conclusively how few of them know a single thing about private business, wealth creation and employment. The figure of 1.2 trillion extra in debt is a substantial shortfall of the real figure.

    Nationalisation would have been a much more plausible solution in 2005, or 2010. It makes little sense in 2019 as there are now multiple companies investing heavily to make high-speed broadband widely available. By my reckoning somewhere between 2.5 to 3.0 million new premises should get FTTC or FTTP each year, and development will likely go faster than that in later years, and by the middle of the next decade most of the job should be done.

    If Labour win I would expect the plug to be pulled on those plans. Why would a company invest billions of pounds to have a Labour government give them a government bond to cover the cost, with a value that Parliament decides upon? If those companies wanted govnerment debt they could acquire it right now without all the trouble of digging up every street in Britain.
    Just had an interesting chat with a mate who is heavily involved in telecoms industry. It is horrendously complex. Openreach is the last mile provider. What is going to happen about the backbone stuff?
  • https://www.independent.co.uk/news/uk/politics/general-election-2019-labour-conservatives-gap-vote-poll-corbyn-johnson-a9205616.html

    >Robert Struthers, head of polling at BMG Research, said: “With Labour’s poll rating improving slightly over the last few months, so too have perceptions of Corbyn’s own performance. This is not to say that the Labour leader should now be considered a popular leader, but he has recovered from a low of -48 per cent in July, rising to -36 per cent in this poll. That being said, the Labour leader remains significantly less popular now than he was one month out from the 2017 election where we recorded his net satisfaction at -17 per cent.”

    Hmm
  • Fysics_TeacherFysics_Teacher Posts: 6,284
    edited November 2019
    ydoethur said:

    ydoethur said:

    ydoethur said:

    On the fire, the alarm system also seems to have nearly caused it to be much worse as multiple false alarms made many students ignore the real thing to start with.

    As a student our fire alarm was always going off.

    Toast. It was always toast.
    Tosters are banned in our staff room kitchen after two fire alarms caused by teachers wandering off and forgetting their toast.
    At least you don’t have to worry about the enthusiasm with which most pupils will escape from a class room.
    Speak for yourself, mine want to stay in lessons!
    Mine don’t, unless it’s raining...

    Hang on, you teach in Wales.
    Do I? That's sudden. I never knew South Staffordshire was in Wales. Indeed, I even thought our MP was so unWelsh, despite his name, that he was in charge of the English education system...
    You must just be a better teacher then.☹️
    If I say I teach a more interesting subject, will that make me unpopular?

    Thing is, after we get past Einstein there are just no decent sex maniacs in Physics.
    https://en.m.wikipedia.org/wiki/Richard_Feynman

    Edit: I’ll concede the interesting, when it’s taught well.
  • Jason said:

    ydoethur said:

    Jason said:

    glw said:

    Muffin13 said:

    Because steel, railways and Royal Mail are mainly one-offs. If Labour wins would BT become a Monopoly and should people who work for the Broadband section of SKY, Virgin Media and other companies start looking for a new job or position? Also, will there be a drop in investment for all these companies?

    I expect that if Labour win the general election a whole load of companies will tear up their existing plans, and do as little work as they are contractually required to do. Which would be a real shame as between them Openreach, Virgin Media, and Cityfibre are now well on track to deliver high-speed broaband to most of the population before Labour's 2030 target. The existing government schemes should pay for the rest of the population. I genuinely believe that Labour could end up delaying the rollout of FTTC/FTTP rather than speeding things up.
    Didn't McDonnell say they could nationalise all of the 200 odd broadband providers if necessary? They really are quite mad, and it proves conclusively how few of them know a single thing about private business, wealth creation and employment. The figure of 1.2 trillion extra in debt is a substantial shortfall of the real figure.
    In fairness, I disagree there. I think the real constraint on a Corbyn government is that after Greece and Venezuela nobody would lend to them. So they would have to balance the books immediately to avoid borrowing.

    The severe damage this would cause is one reason I’m so opposed to them getting into Government. But it would be very funny as well.

    At the same time, it does mean no extra debt.
    You have a point about financial institutions not lending to them. Here's a scenario to put to the Corbynistas here - would any of them lend to his government?
    Do you expect a noticeable withdrawal from Premium Bonds in the event of a Corbyn government.
  • BarnesianBarnesian Posts: 8,578

    Do we think polling firms have become better at single constituency polls? I seem to remember they were really shit last time.
    The Reading W poll has got me thinking though. My model shows Labour gaining it, based on Labour doing better in the SE than the rest of the country I think. But from descriptions of the constituency on here it sounds like its demographic profile is more like the Midlands than the Home Counties, so perhaps this is a seat where something like MRP will do a better job. I am very willing to believe my model is wrong on this seat. But presumably it means Labour is doing better somewhere else?
    For Reading West my model has Con/Lab/LD/BXP as 50/33/14/0

    MRP has 37/28/22/8

    Clear Tory hold.
  • Time_to_LeaveTime_to_Leave Posts: 2,547
    edited November 2019

    Jason said:

    ydoethur said:

    Jason said:

    glw said:

    Muffin13 said:

    Because steel, railways and Royal Mail are mainly one-offs. If Labour wins would BT become a Monopoly and should people who work for the Broadband section of SKY, Virgin Media and other companies start looking for a new job or position? Also, will there be a drop in investment for all these companies?

    I expect that if Labour win the general election a whole load of companies will tear up their existing plans, and do as little work as they are contractually required to do. Which would be a real shame as between them Openreach, Virgin Media, and Cityfibre are now well on track to deliver high-speed broaband to most of the population before Labour's 2030 target. The existing government schemes should pay for the rest of the population. I genuinely believe that Labour could end up delaying the rollout of FTTC/FTTP rather than speeding things up.
    Didn't McDonnell say they could nationalise all of the 200 odd broadband providers if necessary? They really are quite mad, and it proves conclusively how few of them know a single thing about private business, wealth creation and employment. The figure of 1.2 trillion extra in debt is a substantial shortfall of the real figure.
    In fairness, I disagree there. I think the real constraint on a Corbyn government is that after Greece and Venezuela nobody would lend to them. So they would have to balance the books immediately to avoid borrowing.

    The severe damage this would cause is one reason I’m so opposed to them getting into Government. But it would be very funny as well.

    At the same time, it does mean no extra debt.
    You have a point about financial institutions not lending to them. Here's a scenario to put to the Corbynistas here - would any of them lend to his government?
    They would just fire up the printing presses. Hope everyone’s got their wheel barrows ready and brushed up on how to express the power of ten.
    I think it’s fair to say that Labour’s pick for Governor of the Bank of England is likely to be a tad unorthodox.
This discussion has been closed.