Just got a leaflet from the local LibDems No mention of revoke. Multiple references to giving people the final say on Brexit. Has the policy changed ?
Not at all. The policy is both - or either - depending on the arithmetic. The objective is to stay in the EU. Are PB Tories so dim that they cannot see that?
Answer to question: No they are just stirring and making mischief.
This is rubbish, Doncaster North is held by Ed Miliband and is not even in the top 200 Tory target seats and Doncaster Central is not even in the top 100 Tory target seats, even Don Valley is only 69th Tory target but Boris still went there anyway to help despite voters buying properties on the flood plain being surprised when it floods
Yes. Its bollocks.
I think it is unlikely to make a tangible difference but Boris was awkward and lacked empathy. Mind you, it is almost impossible to offer any words of comfort to those who have suffered flooding. Over the years in business I dealt with many flood victims in our area, before serious sea defences were put in place, and you just feel utterly helpless and the smell is beyond belief and all invasive in peoples homes
It is a personal disaster for each and every owner and will take months, even years, to recover from
One day does not make a difference, agreed. But if every second time that Mr Johnson meets ordinary people, he gets heckled and he has no convincing response, then he is in trouble.
John Major was surprisingly good at meeting the public, and surprisingly won an election for it. With Mr Johnson I'm not so sure.
I have nothing to base it on but anecdote, so its meaningless, but from the few people I've met who have encountered Johnson he seems like he works better on TV or in very short doses, he can be very good, but face to face meeting people he's nowhere near as good as he thinks or people assume he would be.
The hidden agenda the EU have been pursuing all along, while purporting to be negotiating in good faith. Now it's out in the open. Good riddance to them and him.
And, to follow the lead of the United States of America and Trump, another disgraceful intervention in a UK election this time by the President of the aspiring United States of Europe. Maybe he'll clarify and tell us whether we should vote Lab or Lib Dem. Or open up an official EU tactical voting site.
I fail to be enraged by this. Man leaving job at EU says he'd prefer it if the UK stayed in the EU.
Looks like OGH is suffering from BDS (Boris derangement syndrome). Can anyone name a political leader who looked good from a natural disaster?
It wasn't a natural disaster, but Mrs Thatcher after the Brighton Hotel bombing reacted very well. Mr Blair reacted very well to the death of Princess Diana and acted decisivly in the Foot and Mouth crisis. Mr Obama reacted well to several natural disasters. These three examples are are of "good leaders" regardless of one's political leanings. Mrs May and Mr Brown were bad at this kind of thing and were not "good leaders". We will soon see which way Mr Johnson falls in this respect.
This is rubbish, Doncaster North is held by Ed Miliband and is not even in the top 200 Tory target seats and Doncaster Central is not even in the top 100 Tory target seats, even Don Valley is only 69th Tory target but Boris still went there anyway to help despite voters buying properties on the flood plain being surprised when it floods
Yes. Its bollocks.
I think it is unlikely to make a tangible difference but Boris was awkward and lacked empathy. Mind you, it is almost impossible to offer any words of comfort to those who have suffered flooding. Over the years in business I dealt with many flood victims in our area, before serious sea defences were put in place, and you just feel utterly helpless and the smell is beyond belief and all invasive in peoples homes
It is a personal disaster for each and every owner and will take months, even years, to recover from
Does re-emphasise the austerity narrative though, which is what Corbyn will want
Corbyn is toxic and will not be pm
Unlawful “Fuck Business” Boris has your endorsement.
The party being investigated for anti semitism has yours
I do honestly find it astonishing people making these certain predictions of a huge majority a month out.
We haven't even seen the Labour manifesto yet - and Labour has increased already.
I think Labour will be at 35% soon enough.
How? That Tory vote is not going Labour so it needs the LDs to fall back to around 10% which is unlikely and even if it did that just boosts Tories in seats where the LDs are challenging too
That tory vote could easily go to the don't know/not going to vote block.
Indeed, it is all about GOTV in the end. This is why I am so sceptical about a winter election. Enthused people will vote; it is the fickle outriders that make or break a parties election. I still suspect a bit of an upset, not a Labour majority but a very well hung parliament.
Labour potential voters are enthused by Corbyn?
LOL right
The base is getting enthused (whether they can be as much as last time is unclear) the rest do not need to be. The push factor of Johnson, armed with an actual deal which means we will actually leave, is higher than before. He only has to ensure he does not lose too badly, to win. Johnson actually needs to win, to win.
Of course in Leaverstan, £125 000 per child from an inheritance is very generous, it mostly becomes an issue in Southern Remania. What percentage of estates are going to be hit in Workington, and in Wimbledon?
Inheritance taxes are possibly the most effective form of wealth redistribution around. It is why the wealthy do not like them but the poor do.
Should help drive quite a few rich Southern Remainers back to the Tories. Nice.
To the LibDems, not the Tories
Not if the polls get close enough that they can feel Corbyn's grasping socialist paw in their pockets...
The floods should be a stark reminder to Team Boris that 'events' are going to mainly fall against them in the course of this campaign.
There could be deaths in A&E queues, poor response to more bad weather, a collapse in the mirage that a large majority of the country are really keen on his Brexit deal; a collapse in the mirage that he's an affable, sleeves-rolled-up, get-it-done sort of chap rather than a complete chancer.
Corbyn's bad points are well-documented and burned in to the polling (giving him an absolute ceiling of high 30s), but he has a pretty solid 20-25 who'd still vote for him if he nationalised babies. He'll also get equal airtime for whatever moons on sticks and owls for all that he wants to offer, while having easy hits like "what? No COBRA meeting on floods?". He'll never win over 40 per cent, probably never a majority, maybe not even most seats. But he doesn't need to to utterly screw Boris's plans. Boris, on the other hand, needs a majority - preferably of sufficient scale to push through any and every controversial Brexit clause without a blink. There is little excuse left if the GB public elect another "remainer parliament".
Johnson may remain lucky. But I still think a 2017-style narrowing combined with a handful of freak seat results stop a Con majority being as odds-on as the markets and polls currently have it.
"utterly screw Boris's plans" is a result I would be very very happy with. I suspect there are a few other people, who agree with me,.... but maybe not on PB.
Yes, the floods may well be this years black swan. Labour need to pin neglect of flood defences on the Tories.
Indeed, the Tories cut a lot of spending on flood defences since 2010. I remember when Cameron was PM, he suffered collateral damage over the issue.
There comes a time when you have a months rain in a day no amount of flood defences can prevent damage to low lying property
The point is money can be found in London and the South east but other places like Yorkshire or North Wales don't have flood mitigation schemes implemented. I agree that nature can be a fickle beast and it must be appalling for the people affected.
Out of interest can you name where the money for flooding has been found in the South East or London?
Look on the environmental agency website should you want the figures.
From your comments you seem to imply that you are aware of schemes in London SE that have happened whilst those proposed for Yorkshire and N Wales are put on hold.
Of course in Leaverstan, £125 000 per child from an inheritance is very generous, it mostly becomes an issue in Southern Remania. What percentage of estates are going to be hit in Workington, and in Wimbledon?
Inheritance taxes are possibly the most effective form of wealth redistribution around. It is why the wealthy do not like them but the poor do.
Only the workshy will be impressed by this. People who worked hard all their lives, bought their house and paid into a final salary pension would all be hit by this.
We've just had a bereavement of a relative, and dealt with the estate. He left a house plus savings, which would have been in excess of Jezza's IHT tax grab. He was a Postie all his working life.
You need to stop assuming the North is all flat caps and whippets.
The hidden agenda the EU have been pursuing all along, while purporting to be negotiating in good faith. Now it's out in the open. Good riddance to them and him.
And, to follow the lead of the United States of America and Trump, another disgraceful intervention in a UK election this time by the President of the aspiring United States of Europe. Maybe he'll clarify and tell us whether we should vote Lab or Lib Dem. Or open up an official EU tactical voting site.
I fail to be enraged by this. Man leaving job at EU says he'd prefer it if the UK stayed in the EU.
He's entitled to his opinion.
I'm not outraged either, the tactics worked and I had a change of heart, but that he admits he was trying to ensure we had time to change our minds is bound to upset some, even though its only a problem of our making (like the Lab blaming SNP for 18 years of Tory government claim discussed on the last thread, where the failure to overcome the Tories was their own fault, as was us failing to get out in a timely fashion)
Both Swinson and Corbyn seemed more like real people than Boriss when they visited - Boris is almost a parody of himself. Unless the rians continue it may be forgoetten by polling day
The floods should be a stark reminder to Team Boris that 'events' are going to mainly fall against them in the course of this campaign.
There could be deaths in A&E queues, poor response to more bad weather, a collapse in the mirage that a large majority of the country are really keen on his Brexit deal; a collapse in the mirage that he's an affable, sleeves-rolled-up, get-it-done sort of chap rather than a complete chancer.
Corbyn's bad points are well-documented and burned in to the polling (giving him an absolute ceiling of high 30s), but he has a pretty solid 20-25 who'd still vote for him if he nationalised babies. He'll also get equal airtime for whatever moons on sticks and owls for all that he wants to offer, while having easy hits like "what? No COBRA meeting on floods?". He'll never win over 40 per cent, probably never a majority, maybe not even most seats. But he doesn't need to to utterly screw Boris's plans. Boris, on the other hand, needs a majority - preferably of sufficient scale to push through any and every controversial Brexit clause without a blink. There is little excuse left if the GB public elect another "remainer parliament".
Johnson may remain lucky. But I still think a 2017-style narrowing combined with a handful of freak seat results stop a Con majority being as odds-on as the markets and polls currently have it.
"utterly screw Boris's plans" is a result I would be very very happy with. I suspect there are a few other people, who agree with me,.... but maybe not on PB.
Then the genius electorate can enjoy another five years of drift and paralysis as Boris governs in the minority, has no power to do anything, and spends his time cutting the ribbon at village fetes.
Of course in Leaverstan, £125 000 per child from an inheritance is very generous, it mostly becomes an issue in Southern Remania. What percentage of estates are going to be hit in Workington, and in Wimbledon?
Inheritance taxes are possibly the most effective form of wealth redistribution around. It is why the wealthy do not like them but the poor do.
Only the workshy will be impressed by this. People who worked hard all their lives, bought their house and paid into a final salary pension would all be hit by this.
We've just had a bereavement of a relative, and dealt with the estate. He left a house plus savings, which would have been in excess of Jezza's IHT tax grab. He was a Postie all his working life.
You need to stop assuming the North is all flat caps and whippets.
I'm sure foxy will not take any action to make sure his family get the fruits of his labour and not the state.
OK, so far 5 polls this week with field work ending on or since Sunday - average Con lead 10%.
Sounds disasterous - but remember it was 20 points this time last time.
If Labour can gain about 7 points on average, it's squeeky bum time.
They can take about 2 points from the Greens, who always get squeezed. 2 points from the Lib Dems (tactical) and some don't knows come back, bit of a youth surge and you can see quite easily how we end up in a Hung Parliament.
Johnson's strategy is to win the North, I don't think that will happen.
Apparently he will win Wales too - I remember when May was due to clean up in Wales, didn't Labour gain seats?
You do seem to be getting a bit carried away with the hope the electorate will see Corbyn as PM but trust me, he will never be PM
I refer you to the words of Mr Harris_Tweed "But he [Corbyn] doesn't need to to utterly screw Boris's plans. Boris, on the other hand, needs a majority"
The elections etc. website has published their second forecast. This looks at a range of indicators including polls, betting sites and different models.
It is currently showing a Conservative majority at about 60% likelihood.
The floods should be a stark reminder to Team Boris that 'events' are going to mainly fall against them in the course of this campaign.
There could be deaths in A&E queues, poor response to more bad weather, a collapse in the mirage that a large majority of the country are really keen on his Brexit deal; a collapse in the mirage that he's an affable, sleeves-rolled-up, get-it-done sort of chap rather than a complete chancer.
Corbyn's bad points are well-documented and burned in to the polling (giving him an absolute ceiling of high 30s), but he has a pretty solid 20-25 who'd still vote for him if he nationalised babies. He'll also get equal airtime for whatever moons on sticks and owls for all that he wants to offer, while having easy hits like "what? No COBRA meeting on floods?". He'll never win over 40 per cent, probably never a majority, maybe not even most seats. But he doesn't need to to utterly screw Boris's plans. Boris, on the other hand, needs a majority - preferably of sufficient scale to push through any and every controversial Brexit clause without a blink. There is little excuse left if the GB public elect another "remainer parliament".
Johnson may remain lucky. But I still think a 2017-style narrowing combined with a handful of freak seat results stop a Con majority being as odds-on as the markets and polls currently have it.
"utterly screw Boris's plans" is a result I would be very very happy with. I suspect there are a few other people, who agree with me,.... but maybe not on PB.
Then the genius electorate can enjoy another five years of drift and paralysis as Boris governs in the minority, has no power to do anything, and spends his time cutting the ribbon at village fetes.
Or the MPs can try to find a way to work together, just like the rest of us have to!
Just got a leaflet from the local LibDems No mention of revoke. Multiple references to giving people the final say on Brexit. Has the policy changed ?
Not at all. The policy is both - or either - depending on the arithmetic. The objective is to stay in the EU. Are PB Tories so dim that they cannot see that?
Answer to question: No they are just stirring and making mischief.
I just quoted the leaflet. It is abundantly clear that the LD objective is to stay in the EU. I was just surprised that revoke wasn't mentioned and second referendum was.
Of course in Leaverstan, £125 000 per child from an inheritance is very generous, it mostly becomes an issue in Southern Remania. What percentage of estates are going to be hit in Workington, and in Wimbledon?
Inheritance taxes are possibly the most effective form of wealth redistribution around. It is why the wealthy do not like them but the poor do.
Only the workshy will be impressed by this. People who worked hard all their lives, bought their house and paid into a final salary pension would all be hit by this.
We've just had a bereavement of a relative, and dealt with the estate. He left a house plus savings, which would have been in excess of Jezza's IHT tax grab. He was a Postie all his working life.
You need to stop assuming the North is all flat caps and whippets.
I'm sure foxy will not take any action to make sure his family get the fruits of his labour and not the state.
The family Young Middle Class Hobby Socialist thought this was a cracking policy, until we pointed out that it would hit him.
I also told him that I was leaving his share to the RSPCA if Commie Jez gets in.
The floods should be a stark reminder to Team Boris that 'events' are going to mainly fall against them in the course of this campaign.
There could be deaths in A&E queues, poor response to more bad weather, a collapse in the mirage that a large majority of the country are really keen on his Brexit deal; a collapse in the mirage that he's an affable, sleeves-rolled-up, get-it-done sort of chap rather than a complete chancer.
Corbyn's bad points are well-documented and burned in to the polling (giving him an absolute ceiling of high 30s), but he has a pretty solid 20-25 who'd still vote for him if he nationalised babies. He'll also get equal airtime for whatever moons on sticks and owls for all that he wants to offer, while having easy hits like "what? No COBRA meeting on floods?". He'll never win over 40 per cent, probably never a majority, maybe not even most seats. But he doesn't need to to utterly screw Boris's plans. Boris, on the other hand, needs a majority - preferably of sufficient scale to push through any and every controversial Brexit clause without a blink. There is little excuse left if the GB public elect another "remainer parliament".
Johnson may remain lucky. But I still think a 2017-style narrowing combined with a handful of freak seat results stop a Con majority being as odds-on as the markets and polls currently have it.
"utterly screw Boris's plans" is a result I would be very very happy with. I suspect there are a few other people, who agree with me,.... but maybe not on PB.
Then the genius electorate can enjoy another five years of drift and paralysis as Boris governs in the minority, has no power to do anything, and spends his time cutting the ribbon at village fetes.
Or the MPs can try to find a way to work together, just like the rest of us have to!
No, in that circumstance I think the electorate should get _exactly_ what they voted for - the square root of fuck all.
Looks like OGH is suffering from BDS (Boris derangement syndrome). Can anyone name a political leader who looked good from a natural disaster?
It wasn't a natural disaster, but Mrs Thatcher after the Brighton Hotel bombing reacted very well. Mr Blair reacted very well to the death of Princess Diana and acted decisivly in the Foot and Mouth crisis. Mr Obama reacted well to several natural disasters. These three examples are are of "good leaders" regardless of one's political leanings. Mrs May and Mr Brown were bad at this kind of thing and were not "good leaders". We will soon see which way Mr Johnson falls in this respect.
Most farmers still haven't forgiven Blair for his actions in the F&M crisis.
My nine year old son wants us to subscribe so he can watch it. I've told him we'll subscribe for a month when all the episodes are out.
(We saw Harrison Ford eating dinner on his own in a hotel restaurant during the Los Angeles fires. My son was SO excited. But too shy to go and say hello.)
Of course in Leaverstan, £125 000 per child from an inheritance is very generous, it mostly becomes an issue in Southern Remania. What percentage of estates are going to be hit in Workington, and in Wimbledon?
Inheritance taxes are possibly the most effective form of wealth redistribution around. It is why the wealthy do not like them but the poor do.
Only the workshy will be impressed by this. People who worked hard all their lives, bought their house and paid into a final salary pension would all be hit by this.
We've just had a bereavement of a relative, and dealt with the estate. He left a house plus savings, which would have been in excess of Jezza's IHT tax grab. He was a Postie all his working life.
You need to stop assuming the North is all flat caps and whippets.
I do actually hail from Wigan, and live in the East Midlands. Split between 2 or more benificiaries, most would not be paying inheritance tax over the majority of the country.
I appreciate that the rich do like to consolidate their loot, so do not like inheritance tax. Nonetheless amongst taxes it is perhaps the most suited to promoting wealth redistribution. It all depends whether you are rich or are poor how you feel about the issue.
Of course in Leaverstan, £125 000 per child from an inheritance is very generous, it mostly becomes an issue in Southern Remania. What percentage of estates are going to be hit in Workington, and in Wimbledon?
Inheritance taxes are possibly the most effective form of wealth redistribution around. It is why the wealthy do not like them but the poor do.
Only the workshy will be impressed by this. People who worked hard all their lives, bought their house and paid into a final salary pension would all be hit by this.
We've just had a bereavement of a relative, and dealt with the estate. He left a house plus savings, which would have been in excess of Jezza's IHT tax grab. He was a Postie all his working life.
You need to stop assuming the North is all flat caps and whippets.
I'm sure foxy will not take any action to make sure his family get the fruits of his labour and not the state.
The simplest way is to have multiple beneficiaries, who each get a £125 000 allowance, then pay IHT on the excess. I have no particular problem with that.
This is rubbish, Doncaster North is held by Ed Miliband and is not even in the top 200 Tory target seats and Doncaster Central is not even in the top 100 Tory target seats, even Don Valley is only 69th Tory target but Boris still went there anyway to help despite voters buying properties on the flood plain being surprised when it floods
Yes. Its bollocks.
I think it is unlikely to make a tangible difference but Boris was awkward and lacked empathy. Mind you, it is almost impossible to offer any words of comfort to those who have suffered flooding. Over the years in business I dealt with many flood victims in our area, before serious sea defences were put in place, and you just feel utterly helpless and the smell is beyond belief and all invasive in peoples homes
It is a personal disaster for each and every owner and will take months, even years, to recover from
One day does not make a difference, agreed. But if every second time that Mr Johnson meets ordinary people, he gets heckled and he has no convincing response, then he is in trouble.
John Major was surprisingly good at meeting the public, and surprisingly won an election for it. With Mr Johnson I'm not so sure.
Assume the same applies to Corbyn?
Yes, the same applies to Corbyn. But Corbyn has shown himself to be fairly good when meeting the public. If the election was only about who performs better when meeting the people the Corbyn would win the election. (no I do not think that the election is only about who performs better when meeting the public)
One day does not make a difference, agreed. But if every second time that Mr Johnson meets ordinary people, he gets heckled and he has no convincing response, then he is in trouble.
John Major was surprisingly good at meeting the public, and surprisingly won an election for it. With Mr Johnson I'm not so sure.
I have nothing to base it on but anecdote, so its meaningless, but from the few people I've met who have encountered Johnson he seems like he works better on TV or in very short doses, he can be very good, but face to face meeting people he's nowhere near as good as he thinks or people assume he would be.
People often mistake charismatic performance for individual likeability, and it's a bad mistake for a political campaign to make IMO.
There is a difference between putting on a show and connecting with people. The former involves being noticed and talked about. The second involves being liked and people wanting to spend more time with you (and by extension your policies). It's why Ken Bruce remains in gainful employment.
Corbyn looks like a loser because he doesn't perform, but people who meet him or see him meeting others realise he's not the batshit-crazy monster portrayed because he can talk to them as a human being and sound like he cares. It's why his figures go up when he gets equal airtime (although he needs to watch the tetchiness he sometimes displays and treat the media as a necessary way of conveying the likeability).
Johnson continues to be noticed and to temporarily disarm through sheer presence, but I'm not convinced he converts people. Even small stuff shows he's playing to an audience and holding court rather than talking to "you" - in much the same way he probably did in the JCR at Oxford. He does selfie-style videos.. literally facing voters from the palm of their own hand.. but still refers to "folks" (plural third person) rather than "you" (singular second). He prefers comedy one-liners to warm humour.
I'm no big fan of either leader, but if both were talking in the pub on a subject other than politics, I could see myself gravitating towards Corbyn's table rather than Johnson's.
Of course in Leaverstan, £125 000 per child from an inheritance is very generous, it mostly becomes an issue in Southern Remania. What percentage of estates are going to be hit in Workington, and in Wimbledon?
Inheritance taxes are possibly the most effective form of wealth redistribution around. It is why the wealthy do not like them but the poor do.
Only the workshy will be impressed by this. People who worked hard all their lives, bought their house and paid into a final salary pension would all be hit by this.
We've just had a bereavement of a relative, and dealt with the estate. He left a house plus savings, which would have been in excess of Jezza's IHT tax grab. He was a Postie all his working life.
You need to stop assuming the North is all flat caps and whippets.
I'm sure foxy will not take any action to make sure his family get the fruits of his labour and not the state.
The simplest way is to have multiple beneficiaries, who each get a £125 000 allowance, then pay IHT on the excess. I have no particular problem with that.
It’s not just IHT though is it? It’s a limit for “gifts” for your entire life.
Of course in Leaverstan, £125 000 per child from an inheritance is very generous, it mostly becomes an issue in Southern Remania. What percentage of estates are going to be hit in Workington, and in Wimbledon?
Inheritance taxes are possibly the most effective form of wealth redistribution around. It is why the wealthy do not like them but the poor do.
Only the workshy will be impressed by this. People who worked hard all their lives, bought their house and paid into a final salary pension would all be hit by this.
We've just had a bereavement of a relative, and dealt with the estate. He left a house plus savings, which would have been in excess of Jezza's IHT tax grab. He was a Postie all his working life.
You need to stop assuming the North is all flat caps and whippets.
I'm sure foxy will not take any action to make sure his family get the fruits of his labour and not the state.
The simplest way is to have multiple beneficiaries, who each get a £125 000 allowance, then pay IHT on the excess. I have no particular problem with that.
The simplest way is to leave it alone. It is fine as it is
Of course in Leaverstan, £125 000 per child from an inheritance is very generous, it mostly becomes an issue in Southern Remania. What percentage of estates are going to be hit in Workington, and in Wimbledon?
Inheritance taxes are possibly the most effective form of wealth redistribution around. It is why the wealthy do not like them but the poor do.
Only the workshy will be impressed by this. People who worked hard all their lives, bought their house and paid into a final salary pension would all be hit by this.
We've just had a bereavement of a relative, and dealt with the estate. He left a house plus savings, which would have been in excess of Jezza's IHT tax grab. He was a Postie all his working life.
You need to stop assuming the North is all flat caps and whippets.
I'm sure foxy will not take any action to make sure his family get the fruits of his labour and not the state.
The simplest way is to have multiple beneficiaries, who each get a £125 000 allowance, then pay IHT on the excess. I have no particular problem with that.
The simplest way is to leave it alone. It is fine as it is
Exactly. Where did this lefty nonsense about taxing another huge chunk out of money that's already been taxed several times over come from?
One day does not make a difference, agreed. But if every second time that Mr Johnson meets ordinary people, he gets heckled and he has no convincing response, then he is in trouble.
John Major was surprisingly good at meeting the public, and surprisingly won an election for it. With Mr Johnson I'm not so sure.
I have nothing to base it on but anecdote, so its meaningless, but from the few people I've met who have encountered Johnson he seems like he works better on TV or in very short doses, he can be very good, but face to face meeting people he's nowhere near as good as he thinks or people assume he would be.
People often mistake charismatic performance for individual likeability, and it's a bad mistake for a political campaign to make IMO.
There is a difference between putting on a show and connecting with people. The former involves being noticed and talked about. The second involves being liked and people wanting to spend more time with you (and by extension your policies). It's why Ken Bruce remains in gainful employment.
Corbyn looks like a loser because he doesn't perform, but people who meet him or see him meeting others realise he's not the batshit-crazy monster portrayed because he can talk to them as a human being and sound like he cares. It's why his figures go up when he gets equal airtime (although he needs to watch the tetchiness he sometimes displays and treat the media as a necessary way of conveying the likeability).
Johnson continues to be noticed and to temporarily disarm through sheer presence, but I'm not convinced he converts people. Even small stuff shows he's playing to an audience and holding court rather than talking to "you" - in much the same way he probably did in the JCR at Oxford. He does selfie-style videos.. literally facing voters from the palm of their own hand.. but still refers to "folks" (plural third person) rather than "you" (singular second). He prefers comedy one-liners to warm humour.
I'm no big fan of either leader, but if both were talking in the pub on a subject other than politics, I could see myself gravitating towards Corbyn's table rather than Johnson's.
Corbyn would never be in a pub. And that’s the thing. He’s a joyless puritanical ideologue who never talks about anything other than politics- and his particular brand of it.
I’d much rather have a night out with Boris. That would be much more fun.
Of course in Leaverstan, £125 000 per child from an inheritance is very generous, it mostly becomes an issue in Southern Remania. What percentage of estates are going to be hit in Workington, and in Wimbledon?
Inheritance taxes are possibly the most effective form of wealth redistribution around. It is why the wealthy do not like them but the poor do.
Only the workshy will be impressed by this. People who worked hard all their lives, bought their house and paid into a final salary pension would all be hit by this.
We've just had a bereavement of a relative, and dealt with the estate. He left a house plus savings, which would have been in excess of Jezza's IHT tax grab. He was a Postie all his working life.
You need to stop assuming the North is all flat caps and whippets.
I'm sure foxy will not take any action to make sure his family get the fruits of his labour and not the state.
The simplest way is to have multiple beneficiaries, who each get a £125 000 allowance, then pay IHT on the excess. I have no particular problem with that.
The simplest way is to leave it alone. It is fine as it is
Exactly. Where did this lefty nonsense about taxing another huge chunk out of money that's already been taxed several times over come from?
The floods should be a stark reminder to Team Boris that 'events' are going to mainly fall against them in the course of this campaign.
There could be deaths in A&E queues, poor response to more bad weather, a collapse in the mirage that a large majority of the country are really keen on his Brexit deal; a collapse in the mirage that he's an affable, sleeves-rolled-up, get-it-done sort of chap rather than a complete chancer.
Corbyn's bad points are well-documented and burned in to the polling (giving him an absolute ceiling of high 30s), but he has a pretty solid 20-25 who'd still vote for him if he nationalised babies. He'll also get equal airtime for whatever moons on sticks and owls for all that he wants to offer, while having easy hits like "what? No COBRA meeting on floods?". He'll never win over 40 per cent, probably never a majority, maybe not even most seats. But he doesn't need to to utterly screw Boris's plans. Boris, on the other hand, needs a majority - preferably of sufficient scale to push through any and every controversial Brexit clause without a blink. There is little excuse left if the GB public elect another "remainer parliament".
Johnson may remain lucky. But I still think a 2017-style narrowing combined with a handful of freak seat results stop a Con majority being as odds-on as the markets and polls currently have it.
"utterly screw Boris's plans" is a result I would be very very happy with. I suspect there are a few other people, who agree with me,.... but maybe not on PB.
Then the genius electorate can enjoy another five years of drift and paralysis as Boris governs in the minority, has no power to do anything, and spends his time cutting the ribbon at village fetes.
Or the MPs can try to find a way to work together, just like the rest of us have to!
No, in that circumstance I think the electorate should get _exactly_ what they voted for - the square root of fuck all.
You seem to be another person who thinks that the electorate is one entity, rather than 40 million individuals with different opinions.
Of course in Leaverstan, £125 000 per child from an inheritance is very generous, it mostly becomes an issue in Southern Remania. What percentage of estates are going to be hit in Workington, and in Wimbledon?
Inheritance taxes are possibly the most effective form of wealth redistribution around. It is why the wealthy do not like them but the poor do.
Only the workshy will be impressed by this. People who worked hard all their lives, bought their house and paid into a final salary pension would all be hit by this.
We've just had a bereavement of a relative, and dealt with the estate. He left a house plus savings, which would have been in excess of Jezza's IHT tax grab. He was a Postie all his working life.
You need to stop assuming the North is all flat caps and whippets.
I do actually hail from Wigan, and live in the East Midlands. Split between 2 or more benificiaries, most would not be paying inheritance tax over the majority of the country.
I appreciate that the rich do like to consolidate their loot, so do not like inheritance tax. Nonetheless amongst taxes it is perhaps the most suited to promoting wealth redistribution. It all depends whether you are rich or are poor how you feel about the issue.
There's a few of us PBWiganers. Dixie is one I think as well.
This is rubbish, Doncaster North is held by Ed Miliband and is not even in the top 200 Tory target seats and Doncaster Central is not even in the top 100 Tory target seats, even Don Valley is only 69th Tory target but Boris still went there anyway to help despite voters buying properties on the flood plain being surprised when it floods
Yes. Its bollocks.
I think it is unlikely to make a tangible difference but Boris was awkward and lacked empathy. Mind you, it is almost impossible to offer any words of comfort to those who have suffered flooding. Over the years in business I dealt with many flood victims in our area, before serious sea defences were put in place, and you just feel utterly helpless and the smell is beyond belief and all invasive in peoples homes
It is a personal disaster for each and every owner and will take months, even years, to recover from
One day does not make a difference, agreed. But if every second time that Mr Johnson meets ordinary people, he gets heckled and he has no convincing response, then he is in trouble.
John Major was surprisingly good at meeting the public, and surprisingly won an election for it. With Mr Johnson I'm not so sure.
Assume the same applies to Corbyn?
Yes, the same applies to Corbyn. But Corbyn has shown himself to be fairly good when meeting the public. If the election was only about who performs better when meeting the people the Corbyn would win the election. (no I do not think that the election is only about who performs better when meeting the public)
Is that when Corbyn meets the public or when surrounds himself with adoring crowds?
The floods should be a stark reminder to Team Boris that 'events' are going to mainly fall against them in the course of this campaign.
There could be deaths in A&E queues, poor response to more bad weather, a collapse in the mirage that a large majority of the country are really keen on his Brexit deal; a collapse in the mirage that he's an affable, sleeves-rolled-up, get-it-done sort of chap rather than a complete chancer.
Corbyn's bad points are well-documented and burned in to the polling (giving him an absolute ceiling of high 30s), but he has a pretty solid 20-25 who'd still vote for him if he nationalised babies. He'll also get equal airtime for whatever moons on sticks and owls for all that he wants to offer, while having easy hits like "what? No COBRA meeting on floods?". He'll never win over 40 per cent, probably never a majority, maybe not even most seats. But he doesn't need to to utterly screw Boris's plans. Boris, on the other hand, needs a majority - preferably of sufficient scale to push through any and every controversial Brexit clause without a blink. There is little excuse left if the GB public elect another "remainer parliament".
Johnson may remain lucky. But I still think a 2017-style narrowing combined with a handful of freak seat results stop a Con majority being as odds-on as the markets and polls currently have it.
"utterly screw Boris's plans" is a result I would be very very happy with. I suspect there are a few other people, who agree with me,.... but maybe not on PB.
Then the genius electorate can enjoy another five years of drift and paralysis as Boris governs in the minority, has no power to do anything, and spends his time cutting the ribbon at village fetes.
Or the MPs can try to find a way to work together, just like the rest of us have to!
No, in that circumstance I think the electorate should get _exactly_ what they voted for - the square root of fuck all.
You seem to be another person who thinks that the electorate is one entity, rather than 40 million individuals with different opinions.
Well, our bodies are also composed of myriad small parts, but if your feet walk you off a cliff it's the whole body that suffers.
One day does not make a difference, agreed. But if every second time that Mr Johnson meets ordinary people, he gets heckled and he has no convincing response, then he is in trouble.
John Major was surprisingly good at meeting the public, and surprisingly won an election for it. With Mr Johnson I'm not so sure.
I have nothing to base it on but anecdote, so its meaningless, but from the few people I've met who have encountered Johnson he seems like he works better on TV or in very short doses, he can be very good, but face to face meeting people he's nowhere near as good as he thinks or people assume he would be.
People often mistake charismatic performance for individual likeability, and it's a bad mistake for a political campaign to make IMO.
There is a difference between putting on a show and connecting with people. The former involves being noticed and talked about. The second involves being liked and people wanting to spend more time with you (and by extension your policies). It's why Ken Bruce remains in gainful employment.
Corbyn looks like a loser because he doesn't perform, but people who meet him or see him meeting others realise he's not the batshit-crazy monster portrayed because he can talk to them as a human being and sound like he cares. It's why his figures go up when he gets equal airtime (although he needs to watch the tetchiness he sometimes displays and treat the media as a necessary way of conveying the likeability).
Johnson continues to be noticed and to temporarily disarm through sheer presence, but I'm not convinced he converts people. Even small stuff shows he's playing to an audience and holding court rather than talking to "you" - in much the same way he probably did in the JCR at Oxford. He does selfie-style videos.. literally facing voters from the palm of their own hand.. but still refers to "folks" (plural third person) rather than "you" (singular second). He prefers comedy one-liners to warm humour.
I'm no big fan of either leader, but if both were talking in the pub on a subject other than politics, I could see myself gravitating towards Corbyn's table rather than Johnson's.
Corbyn would never be in a pub. And that’s the thing. He’s a joyless puritanical ideologue who never talks about anything other than politics- and his particular brand of it.
I’d much rather have a night out with Boris. That would be much more fun.
I'm sure you could say the same about Mrs Thatcher being never seen in a pub, and in 1986 a night out with Mr Kinnock would have been much more fun.
Well not everybody is happy with freedom of movement....
Jeremy Corbyn’s key union supporter, Unite’s Len McCluskey, sparked a backlash on Tuesday as he told the Labour leader that victory in the general election means taking a tough line on free movement of workers.
One day does not make a difference, agreed. But if every second time that Mr Johnson meets ordinary people, he gets heckled and he has no convincing response, then he is in trouble.
John Major was surprisingly good at meeting the public, and surprisingly won an election for it. With Mr Johnson I'm not so sure.
I have nothing to base it on but anecdote, so its meaningless, but from the few people I've met who have encountered Johnson he seems like he works better on TV or in very short doses, he can be very good, but face to face meeting people he's nowhere near as good as he thinks or people assume he would be.
People often mistake charismatic performance for individual likeability, and it's a bad mistake for a political campaign to make IMO.
There is a difference between putting on a show and connecting with people. The former involves being noticed and talked about. The second involves being liked and people wanting to spend more time with you (and by extension your policies). It's why Ken Bruce remains in gainful employment.
Corbyn looks like a loser because he doesn't perform, but people who meet him or see him meeting others realise he's not the batshit-crazy monster portrayed because he can talk to them as a human being and sound like he cares. It's why his figures go up when he gets equal airtime (although he needs to watch the tetchiness he sometimes displays and treat the media as a necessary way of conveying the likeability).
Johnson continues to be noticed and to temporarily disarm through sheer presence, but I'm not convinced he converts people. Even small stuff shows he's playing to an audience and holding court rather than talking to "you" - in much the same way he probably did in the JCR at Oxford. He does selfie-style videos.. literally facing voters from the palm of their own hand.. but still refers to "folks" (plural third person) rather than "you" (singular second). He prefers comedy one-liners to warm humour.
I'm no big fan of either leader, but if both were talking in the pub on a subject other than politics, I could see myself gravitating towards Corbyn's table rather than Johnson's.
I would douse the pub in petrol, lock the doors and start a fire.
Sure, there'd be a lot of collateral damage, but the country would thank me.
The floods should be a stark reminder to Team Boris that 'events' are going to mainly fall against them in the course of this campaign.
There could be deaths in A&E queues, poor response to more bad weather, a collapse in the mirage that a large majority of the country are really keen on his Brexit deal; a collapse in the mirage that he's an affable, sleeves-rolled-up, get-it-done sort of chap rather than a complete chancer.
Corbyn's bad points are well-documented and burned in to the polling (giving him an absolute ceiling of high 30s), but he has a pretty solid 20-25 who'd still vote for him if he nationalised babies. He'll also get equal airtime for whatever moons on sticks and owls for all that he wants to offer, while having easy hits like "what? No COBRA meeting on floods?". He'll never win over 40 per cent, probably never a majority, maybe not even most seats. But he doesn't need to to utterly screw Boris's plans. Boris, on the other hand, needs a majority - preferably of sufficient scale to push through any and every controversial Brexit clause without a blink. There is little excuse left if the GB public elect another "remainer parliament".
Johnson may remain lucky. But I still think a 2017-style narrowing combined with a handful of freak seat results stop a Con majority being as odds-on as the markets and polls currently have it.
"utterly screw Boris's plans" is a result I would be very very happy with. I suspect there are a few other people, who agree with me,.... but maybe not on PB.
Then the genius electorate can enjoy another five years of drift and paralysis as Boris governs in the minority, has no power to do anything, and spends his time cutting the ribbon at village fetes.
Or the MPs can try to find a way to work together, just like the rest of us have to!
No, in that circumstance I think the electorate should get _exactly_ what they voted for - the square root of fuck all.
You seem to be another person who thinks that the electorate is one entity, rather than 40 million individuals with different opinions.
Well, our bodies are also composed of myriad small parts, but if your feet walk you off a cliff it's the whole body that suffers.
But my the cells in my heart work together to keep me alive. So should the cells (MPs) in parliament.
Of course in Leaverstan, £125 000 per child from an inheritance is very generous, it mostly becomes an issue in Southern Remania. What percentage of estates are going to be hit in Workington, and in Wimbledon?
Inheritance taxes are possibly the most effective form of wealth redistribution around. It is why the wealthy do not like them but the poor do.
Only the workshy will be impressed by this. People who worked hard all their lives, bought their house and paid into a final salary pension would all be hit by this.
We've just had a bereavement of a relative, and dealt with the estate. He left a house plus savings, which would have been in excess of Jezza's IHT tax grab. He was a Postie all his working life.
You need to stop assuming the North is all flat caps and whippets.
I'm sure foxy will not take any action to make sure his family get the fruits of his labour and not the state.
The simplest way is to have multiple beneficiaries, who each get a £125 000 allowance, then pay IHT on the excess. I have no particular problem with that.
The simplest way is to leave it alone. It is fine as it is
Exactly. Where did this lefty nonsense about taxing another huge chunk out of money that's already been taxed several times over come from?
Love to be accused of only being bothered because I'm 'rich'. My grandparents lived in abject poverty. Not benefits and watching Jezza Kyle poor, no shoes or indoor plumbing poor.
My parents grafted from age 14, paid tax on this money multiple times, and now some twat who went to private school and grew up in a massive house wants to grab a load of it to give to the terminally idle. That isn't wealth redistribution, it is hollowing out the middle and lower middle classes.
If you want more tax, go after the people who are actually rich. But that's too difficult, so just hit working people again.
P.S. I've never voted Tory in my life, but it now looks unlikely that I will ever vote Labour again, either.
Here are some thread ideas I've come up with and dismissed for the moment but the site thrives on contributions so in the interests of thinking out loud here are some others may wish to explore further or even argue against !
Ludicrous laying Betfair jollies Will the UK trend toward rural-urban Tory-Labour split The missed (true) Norwegian middle ground How the northern Irish tail wagged the Brexit dog Unpopularity of the centre ground. Bookmakers refusing to lay bets Coalfields and cities, Labour's uneasy coalition The sundering of Scottish Labour. Labour - too strong to die, too weak to rule Johnson - underestimated man Larger the Tory majority, softer the Brexit
The Cummings grid? Dominic Cummings isn't running the Tory campaign.
Ladies and gentleman, in this election we have, in one corner, Yorkshire common sense, and in the other, state of the art voter management software written by whizzkids with PhDs in physics. As a non-Yorkshireman who has a great love of that county, I can't not root for Yorkshire common sense and straight talking.
One day does not make a difference, agreed. But if every second time that Mr Johnson meets ordinary people, he gets heckled and he has no convincing response, then he is in trouble.
John Major was surprisingly good at meeting the public, and surprisingly won an election for it. With Mr Johnson I'm not so sure.
I have nothing to base it on but anecdote, so its meaningless, but from the few people I've met who have encountered Johnson he seems like he works better on TV or in very short doses, he can be very good, but face to face meeting people he's nowhere near as good as he thinks or people assume he would be.
People often mistake charismatic performance for individual likeability, and it's a bad mistake for a political campaign to make IMO.
There is a difference between putting on a show and connecting with people. The former involves being noticed and talked about. The second involves being liked and people wanting to spend more time with you (and by extension your policies). It's why Ken Bruce remains in gainful employment.
Corbyn looks like a loser because he doesn't perform, but people who meet him or see him meeting others realise he's not the batshit-crazy monster portrayed because he can talk to them as a human being and sound like he cares. It's why his figures go up when he gets equal airtime (although he needs to watch the tetchiness he sometimes displays and treat the media as a necessary way of conveying the likeability).
Johnson continues to be noticed and to temporarily disarm through sheer presence, but I'm not convinced he converts people. Even small stuff shows he's playing to an audience and holding court rather than talking to "you" - in much the same way he probably did in the JCR at Oxford. He does selfie-style videos.. literally facing voters from the palm of their own hand.. but still refers to "folks" (plural third person) rather than "you" (singular second). He prefers comedy one-liners to warm humour.
I'm no big fan of either leader, but if both were talking in the pub on a subject other than politics, I could see myself gravitating towards Corbyn's table rather than Johnson's.
Corbyn would never be in a pub. And that’s the thing. He’s a joyless puritanical ideologue who never talks about anything other than politics- and his particular brand of it.
I’d much rather have a night out with Boris. That would be much more fun.
Fair point that JC only seems to do politics. But I still think the "Boris the show-off" schtick would wear thin after the second pint
This is rubbish, Doncaster North is held by Ed Miliband and is not even in the top 200 Tory target seats and Doncaster Central is not even in the top 100 Tory target seats, even Don Valley is only 69th Tory target but Boris still went there anyway to help despite voters buying properties on the flood plain being surprised when it floods
Yes. Its bollocks.
I think it is unlikely to make a tangible difference but Boris was awkward and lacked empathy. Mind you, it is almost impossible to offer any words of comfort to those who have suffered flooding. Over the years in business I dealt with many flood victims in our area, before serious sea defences were put in place, and you just feel utterly helpless and the smell is beyond belief and all invasive in peoples homes
It is a personal disaster for each and every owner and will take months, even years, to recover from
One day does not make a difference, agreed. But if every second time that Mr Johnson meets ordinary people, he gets heckled and he has no convincing response, then he is in trouble.
John Major was surprisingly good at meeting the public, and surprisingly won an election for it. With Mr Johnson I'm not so sure.
Assume the same applies to Corbyn?
Yes, the same applies to Corbyn. But Corbyn has shown himself to be fairly good when meeting the public. If the election was only about who performs better when meeting the people the Corbyn would win the election. (no I do not think that the election is only about who performs better when meeting the public)
Is that when Corbyn meets the public or when surrounds himself with adoring crowds?
The public. Example: after the Grenfell Tower Fire (just one example)
Of course in Leaverstan, £125 000 per child from an inheritance is very generous, it mostly becomes an issue in Southern Remania. What percentage of estates are going to be hit in Workington, and in Wimbledon?
Inheritance taxes are possibly the most effective form of wealth redistribution around. It is why the wealthy do not like them but the poor do.
Only the workshy will be impressed by this. People who worked hard all their lives, bought their house and paid into a final salary pension would all be hit by this.
We've just had a bereavement of a relative, and dealt with the estate. He left a house plus savings, which would have been in excess of Jezza's IHT tax grab. He was a Postie all his working life.
You need to stop assuming the North is all flat caps and whippets.
I do actually hail from Wigan, and live in the East Midlands. Split between 2 or more benificiaries, most would not be paying inheritance tax over the majority of the country.
I appreciate that the rich do like to consolidate their loot, so do not like inheritance tax. Nonetheless amongst taxes it is perhaps the most suited to promoting wealth redistribution. It all depends whether you are rich or are poor how you feel about the issue.
Big question then - meat pie (or even a pie barm) from Wigan or pork pie from Melton?
John Major was surprisingly good at meeting the public, and surprisingly won an election for it. With Mr Johnson I'm not so sure.
I have nothing to base it on but anecdote, so its meaningless, but from the few people I've met who have encountered Johnson he seems like he works better on TV or in very short doses, he can be very good, but face to face meeting people he's nowhere near as good as he thinks or people assume he would be.
People often mistake charismatic performance for individual likeability, and it's a bad mistake for a political campaign to make IMO.
There is a difference between putting on a show and connecting with people. The former involves being noticed and talked about. The second involves being liked and people wanting to spend more time with you (and by extension your policies). It's why Ken Bruce remains in gainful employment.
Corbyn looks like a loser because he doesn't perform, but people who meet him or see him meeting others realise he's not the batshit-crazy monster portrayed because he can talk to them as a human being and sound like he cares. It's why his figures go up when he gets equal airtime (although he needs to watch the tetchiness he sometimes displays and treat the media as a necessary way of conveying the likeability).
Johnson continues to be noticed and to temporarily disarm through sheer presence, but I'm not convinced he converts people. Even small stuff shows he's playing to an audience and holding court rather than talking to "you" - in much the same way he probably did in the JCR at Oxford. He does selfie-style videos.. literally facing voters from the palm of their own hand.. but still refers to "folks" (plural third person) rather than "you" (singular second). He prefers comedy one-liners to warm humour.
I'm no big fan of either leader, but if both were talking in the pub on a subject other than politics, I could see myself gravitating towards Corbyn's table rather than Johnson's.
Corbyn would never be in a pub. And that’s the thing. He’s a joyless puritanical ideologue who never talks about anything other than politics- and his particular brand of it.
I’d much rather have a night out with Boris. That would be much more fun.
Fair point that JC only seems to do politics. But I still think the "Boris the show-off" schtick would wear thin after the second pint
This is rubbish, Doncaster North is held by Ed Miliband and is not even in the top 200 Tory target seats and Doncaster Central is not even in the top 100 Tory target seats, even Don Valley is only 69th Tory target but Boris still went there anyway to help despite voters buying properties on the flood plain being surprised when it floods
Yes. Its bollocks.
I think it is unlikely to make a tangible difference but Boris was awkward and lacked empathy. Mind you, it is almost impossible to offer any words of comfort to those who have suffered flooding. Over the years in business I dealt with many flood victims in our area, before serious sea defences were put in place, and you just feel utterly helpless and the smell is beyond belief and all invasive in peoples homes
It is a personal disaster for each and every owner and will take months, even years, to recover from
One day does not make a difference, agreed. But if every second time that Mr Johnson meets ordinary people, he gets heckled and he has no convincing response, then he is in trouble.
John Major was surprisingly good at meeting the public, and surprisingly won an election for it. With Mr Johnson I'm not so sure.
Assume the same applies to Corbyn?
Yes, the same applies to Corbyn. But Corbyn has shown himself to be fairly good when meeting the public. If the election was only about who performs better when meeting the people the Corbyn would win the election. (no I do not think that the election is only about who performs better when meeting the public)
Is that when Corbyn meets the public or when surrounds himself with adoring crowds?
The public. Example: after the Grenfell Tower Fire (just one example)
Obviously there would be no Labour supporters in social housing in London
- inverse relationship between Con and Brexit (and before that UKIP)
- inverse relationship between Lab and LD
And those battles are just as important as Lab v Con in determining whether we have an overall majority. It also partly explains why Lab and LDs (and until the other day Con and BXP) aren't keen on doing each other any favours. There's good business to be done stealing votes from others nominally on your side of the fence.
John Major was surprisingly good at meeting the public, and surprisingly won an election for it. With Mr Johnson I'm not so sure.
I have nothing to base it on but anecdote, so its meaningless, but from the few people I've met who have encountered Johnson he seems like he works better on TV or in very short doses, he can be very good, but face to face meeting people he's nowhere near as good as he thinks or people assume he would be.
People often mistake charismatic performance for individual likeability, and it's a bad mistake for a political campaign to make IMO.
There is a difference between putting on a show and connecting with people. The former involves being noticed and talked about. The second involves being liked and people wanting to spend more time with you (and by extension your policies). It's why Ken Bruce remains in gainful employment.
Corbyn looks like a loser because he doesn't perform, but people who meet him or see him meeting others realise he's not the batshit-crazy monster portrayed because he can talk to them as a human being and sound like he cares. It's why his figures go up when he gets equal airtime (although he needs to watch the tetchiness he sometimes displays and treat the media as a necessary way of conveying the likeability).
Johnson continues to be noticed and to temporarily disarm through sheer presence, but I'm not convinced he converts people. Even small stuff shows he's playing to an audience and holding court rather than talking to "you" - in much the same way he probably did in the JCR at Oxford. He does selfie-style videos.. literally facing voters from the palm of their own hand.. but still refers to "folks" (plural third person) rather than "you" (singular second). He prefers comedy one-liners to warm humour.
I'm no big fan of either leader, but if both were talking in the pub on a subject other than politics, I could see myself gravitating towards Corbyn's table rather than Johnson's.
Corbyn would never be in a pub. And that’s the thing. He’s a joyless puritanical ideologue who never talks about anything other than politics- and his particular brand of it.
I’d much rather have a night out with Boris. That would be much more fun.
I'm sure you could say the same about Mrs Thatcher being never seen in a pub, and in 1986 a night out with Mr Kinnock would have been much more fun.
Here are some thread ideas I've come up with and dismissed for the moment but the site thrives on contributions so in the interests of thinking out loud here are some others may wish to explore further or even argue against !
Ludicrous laying Betfair jollies Will the UK trend toward rural-urban Tory-Labour split The missed (true) Norwegian middle ground How the northern Irish tail wagged the Brexit dog Unpopularity of the centre ground.
My first reaction was FPTP, then I remebered the state election in Thuringen a couple of weeks ago
Of course in Leaverstan, £125 000 per child from an inheritance is very generous, it mostly becomes an issue in Southern Remania. What percentage of estates are going to be hit in Workington, and in Wimbledon?
Inheritance taxes are possibly the most effective form of wealth redistribution around. It is why the wealthy do not like them but the poor do.
Only the workshy will be impressed by this. People who worked hard all their lives, bought their house and paid into a final salary pension would all be hit by this.
We've just had a bereavement of a relative, and dealt with the estate. He left a house plus savings, which would have been in excess of Jezza's IHT tax grab. He was a Postie all his working life.
You need to stop assuming the North is all flat caps and whippets.
I do actually hail from Wigan, and live in the East Midlands. Split between 2 or more benificiaries, most would not be paying inheritance tax over the majority of the country.
I appreciate that the rich do like to consolidate their loot, so do not like inheritance tax. Nonetheless amongst taxes it is perhaps the most suited to promoting wealth redistribution. It all depends whether you are rich or are poor how you feel about the issue.
Big question then - meat pie (or even a pie barm) from Wigan or pork pie from Melton?
This is rubbish, Doncaster North is held by Ed Miliband and is not even in the top 200 Tory target seats and Doncaster Central is not even in the top 100 Tory target seats, even Don Valley is only 69th Tory target but Boris still went there anyway to help despite voters buying properties on the flood plain being surprised when it floods
Yes. Its bollocks.
I think it is unlikely to make a tangible difference but Boris was awkward and lacked empathy. Mind you, it is almost impossible to offer any words of comfort to those who have suffered flooding. Over the years in business I dealt with many flood victims in our area, before serious sea defences were put in place, and you just feel utterly helpless and the smell is beyond belief and all invasive in peoples homes
It is a personal disaster for each and every owner and will take months, even years, to recover from
One day does not make a difference, agreed. But if every second time that Mr Johnson meets ordinary people, he gets heckled and he has no convincing response, then he is in trouble.
John Major was surprisingly good at meeting the public, and surprisingly won an election for it. With Mr Johnson I'm not so sure.
Assume the same applies to Corbyn?
Yes, the same applies to Corbyn. But Corbyn has shown himself to be fairly good when meeting the public. If the election was only about who performs better when meeting the people the Corbyn would win the election. (no I do not think that the election is only about who performs better when meeting the public)
Is that when Corbyn meets the public or when surrounds himself with adoring crowds?
The public. Example: after the Grenfell Tower Fire (just one example)
Obviously there would be no Labour supporters in social housing in London
The Cummings grid? Dominic Cummings isn't running the Tory campaign.
Ladies and gentleman, in this election we have, in one corner, Yorkshire common sense, and in the other, state of the art voter management software written by whizzkids with PhDs in physics. As a non-Yorkshireman who has a great love of that county, I can't not root for Yorkshire common sense and straight talking.
He uses the Yorkshire vernacular though 'Get brexit done lass'. Sounds straight out of Wuthering Heights.
This is rubbish, Doncaster North is held by Ed Miliband and is not even in the top 200 Tory target seats and Doncaster Central is not even in the top 100 Tory target seats, even Don Valley is only 69th Tory target but Boris still went there anyway to help despite voters buying properties on the flood plain being surprised when it floods
Yes. Its bollocks.
I think it is unlikely to make a tangible difference but Boris was awkward and lacked empathy. Mind you, it is almost impossible to offer any words of comfort to those who have suffered flooding. Over the years in business I dealt with many flood victims in our area, before serious sea defences were put in place, and you just feel utterly helpless and the smell is beyond belief and all invasive in peoples homes
It is a personal disaster for each and every owner and will take months, even years, to recover from
One day does not make a difference, agreed. But if every second time that Mr Johnson meets ordinary people, he gets heckled and he has no convincing response, then he is in trouble.
John Major was surprisingly good at meeting the public, and surprisingly won an election for it. With Mr Johnson I'm not so sure.
Assume the same applies to Corbyn?
Yes, the same applies to Corbyn. But Corbyn has shown himself to be fairly good when meeting the public. If the election was only about who performs better when meeting the people the Corbyn would win the election. (no I do not think that the election is only about who performs better when meeting the public)
Is that when Corbyn meets the public or when surrounds himself with adoring crowds?
The public. Example: after the Grenfell Tower Fire (just one example)
Obviously there would be no Labour supporters in social housing in London
I do believe some Tories may be underestimating Jeremy Corbyn for the second time...
Looks like OGH is suffering from BDS (Boris derangement syndrome). Can anyone name a political leader who looked good from a natural disaster?
It wasn't a natural disaster, but Mrs Thatcher after the Brighton Hotel bombing reacted very well. Mr Blair reacted very well to the death of Princess Diana and acted decisivly in the Foot and Mouth crisis. Mr Obama reacted well to several natural disasters. These three examples are are of "good leaders" regardless of one's political leanings. Mrs May and Mr Brown were bad at this kind of thing and were not "good leaders". We will soon see which way Mr Johnson falls in this respect.
Most farmers still haven't forgiven Blair for his actions in the F&M crisis.
Funny but I was thinking about the floods and the comparison with the F&M disaster, Richard. The latter was much worse of course.
I can't speak for 'most farmers' but you'd have to say the episode didn't help Blair, although I think it was more a case of his departments and cabinet colleagues reacting slowly and weakly rather than the fault of the PM himself.
If it's true farmers still hate him, and I can believe you, it may be because they never had much love for him in the first place. In other crises however he was capable of showing a deft touch. The death of Diana is a good example; likewise his intervention in the Balkans.
Thatcher was brilliant after Brighton. Obama generally got it right. May was hopeless at Grenfell. Brown was generally awkward.
I'm surprised how awkward Johnson has proved so far. The floods won't have done him much electoral damage, but his minders should perhaps keep him in more.
This is rubbish, Doncaster North is held by Ed Miliband and is not even in the top 200 Tory target seats and Doncaster Central is not even in the top 100 Tory target seats, even Don Valley is only 69th Tory target but Boris still went there anyway to help despite voters buying properties on the flood plain being surprised when it floods
Yes. Its bollocks.
I think it is unlikely to make a tangible difference but Boris was awkward and lacked empathy. Mind you, it is almost impossible to offer any words of comfort to those who have suffered flooding. Over the years in business I dealt with many flood victims in our area, before serious sea defences were put in place, and you just feel utterly helpless and the smell is beyond belief and all invasive in peoples homes
It is a personal disaster for each and every owner and will take months, even years, to recover from
One day does not make a difference, agreed. But if every second time that Mr Johnson meets ordinary people, he gets heckled and he has no convincing response, then he is in trouble.
John Major was surprisingly good at meeting the public, and surprisingly won an election for it. With Mr Johnson I'm not so sure.
Assume the same applies to Corbyn?
Yes, the same applies to Corbyn. But Corbyn has shown himself to be fairly good when meeting the public. If the election was only about who performs better when meeting the people the Corbyn would win the election. (no I do not think that the election is only about who performs better when meeting the public)
Is that when Corbyn meets the public or when surrounds himself with adoring crowds?
The public. Example: after the Grenfell Tower Fire (just one example)
Obviously there would be no Labour supporters in social housing in London
You are claiming that many people personally affected in the Fire were prepared to play party politcis in its aftermath? I find that opinion sick and offensive.
The floods should be a stark reminder to Team Boris that 'events' are going to mainly fall against them in the course of this campaign.
There could be deaths in A&E queues, poor response to more bad weather, a collapse in the mirage that a large majority of the country are really keen on his Brexit deal; a collapse in the mirage that he's an affable, sleeves-rolled-up, get-it-done sort of chap rather than a complete chancer.
Corbyn's bad points are well-documented and burned in to the polling (giving him an absolute ceiling of high 30s), but he has a pretty solid 20-25 who'd still vote for him if he nationalised babies. He'll also get equal airtime for whatever moons on sticks and owls for all that he wants to offer, while having easy hits like "what? No COBRA meeting on floods?". He'll never win over 40 per cent, probably never a majority, maybe not even most seats. But he doesn't need to to utterly screw Boris's plans. Boris, on the other hand, needs a majority - preferably of sufficient scale to push through any and every controversial Brexit clause without a blink. There is little excuse left if the GB public elect another "remainer parliament".
Johnson may remain lucky. But I still think a 2017-style narrowing combined with a handful of freak seat results stop a Con majority being as odds-on as the markets and polls currently have it.
"utterly screw Boris's plans" is a result I would be very very happy with. I suspect there are a few other people, who agree with me,.... but maybe not on PB.
Then the genius electorate can enjoy another five years of drift and paralysis as Boris governs in the minority, has no power to do anything, and spends his time cutting the ribbon at village fetes.
Or the MPs can try to find a way to work together, just like the rest of us have to!
No, in that circumstance I think the electorate should get _exactly_ what they voted for - the square root of fuck all.
You seem to be another person who thinks that the electorate is one entity, rather than 40 million individuals with different opinions.
Well, our bodies are also composed of myriad small parts, but if your feet walk you off a cliff it's the whole body that suffers.
But my the cells in my heart work together to keep me alive. So should the cells (MPs) in parliament.
And they will indeed - in the induced coma that is a Hung Parliament!
Of course in Leaverstan, £125 000 per child from an inheritance is very generous, it mostly becomes an issue in Southern Remania. What percentage of estates are going to be hit in Workington, and in Wimbledon?
IOnly the workshy will be impressed by this. People who worked hard all their lives, bought their house and paid into a final salary pension would all be hit by this.
We've just had a bereavement of a relative, and dealt with the estate. He left a house plus savings, which would have been in excess of Jezza's IHT tax grab. He was a Postie all his working life.
You need to stop assuming the North is all flat caps and whippets.
I'm sure foxy will not take any action to make sure his family get the fruits of his labour and not the state.
The simplest way is to have multiple beneficiaries, who each get a £125 000 allowance, then pay IHT on the excess. I have no particular problem with that.
The simplest way is to leave it alone. It is fine as it is
Exactly. Where did this lefty nonsense about taxing another huge chunk out of money that's already been taxed several times over come from?
Love to be accused of only being bothered because I'm 'rich'. My grandparents lived in abject poverty. Not benefits and watching Jezza Kyle poor, no shoes or indoor plumbing poor.
My parents grafted from age 14, paid tax on this money multiple times, and now some twat who went to private school and grew up in a massive house wants to grab a load of it to give to the terminally idle. That isn't wealth redistribution, it is hollowing out the middle and lower middle classes.
If you want more tax, go after the people who are actually rich. But that's too difficult, so just hit working people again.
P.S. I've never voted Tory in my life, but it now looks unlikely that I will ever vote Labour again, either.
I can sympathise but voting only from a personal perspective can't help. I recognise that many probably do. Anything less than 100% is a plus.
Looks like OGH is suffering from BDS (Boris derangement syndrome). Can anyone name a political leader who looked good from a natural disaster?
The clips played on the radio today had people tell Boris it was about time he turned up - as if he could personally assist - then when asked what was required the locals said actually nothing now, but help was too late in coming (which it always is in these situations).
I think it's just that people who have been flooded out of their houses are pissed off watching the prime minister do his Benny Hill impersonation with a mop and bucket as a PR stunt for his reelection campaign
This is rubbish, Doncaster North is held by Ed Miliband and is not even in the top 200 Tory target seats and Doncaster Central is not even in the top 100 Tory target seats, even Don Valley is only 69th Tory target but Boris still went there anyway to help despite voters buying properties on the flood plain being surprised when it floods
Yes. Its bollocks.
I think it is unlikely to make a tangible difference but Boris was awkward and lacked empathy. Mind you, it is almost impossible to offer any words of comfort to those who have suffered flooding. Over the years in business I dealt with many flood victims in our area, before serious sea defences were put in place, and you just feel utterly helpless and the smell is beyond belief and all invasive in peoples homes
It is a personal disaster for each and every owner and will take months, even years, to recover from
One day does not make a difference, agreed. But if every second time that Mr Johnson meets ordinary people, he gets heckled and he has no convincing response, then he is in trouble.
John Major was surprisingly good at meeting the public, and surprisingly won an election for it. With Mr Johnson I'm not so sure.
Assume the same applies to Corbyn?
Yes, the same applies to Corbyn. But Corbyn has shown himself to be fairly good when meeting the public. If the election was only about who performs better when meeting the people the Corbyn would win the election. (no I do not think that the election is only about who performs better when meeting the public)
Is that when Corbyn meets the public or when surrounds himself with adoring crowds?
The public. Example: after the Grenfell Tower Fire (just one example)
Obviously there would be no Labour supporters in social housing in London
You are claiming that many people personally affected in the Fire were prepared to play party politcis in its aftermath? I find that opinion sick and offensive.
I am not - pillock
You ask a question then treat it as a statement of fact.
This is rubbish, Doncaster North is held by Ed Miliband and is not even in the top 200 Tory target seats and Doncaster Central is not even in the top 100 Tory target seats, even Don Valley is only 69th Tory target but Boris still went there anyway to help despite voters buying properties on the flood plain being surprised when it floods
Yes. Its bollocks.
I think it is unlikely to make a tangible difference but Boris was awkward and lacked empathy. Mind you, it is almost impossible to offer any words of comfort to those who have suffered flooding. Over the years in business I dealt with many flood victims in our area, before serious sea defences were put in place, and you just feel utterly helpless and the smell is beyond belief and all invasive in peoples homes
It is a personal disaster for each and every owner and will take months, even years, to recover from
One day does not make a difference, agreed. But if every second time that Mr Johnson meets ordinary people, he gets heckled and he has no convincing response, then he is in trouble.
John Major was surprisingly good at meeting the public, and surprisingly won an election for it. With Mr Johnson I'm not so sure.
Assume the same applies to Corbyn?
Yes, the same applies to Corbyn. But Corbyn has shown himself to be fairly good when meeting the public. If the election was only about who performs better when meeting the people the Corbyn would win the election. (no I do not think that the election is only about who performs better when meeting the public)
Is that when Corbyn meets the public or when surrounds himself with adoring crowds?
The public. Example: after the Grenfell Tower Fire (just one example)
Obviously there would be no Labour supporters in social housing in London
I do believe some Tories may be underestimating Jeremy Corbyn for the second time...
Have just done the calculation based on the YouGov regional polling and got a Tory majority of 88, 75 Tory gains from Labour and 13 Tory losses to the LDs and 10 Tory seats losses to the SNP
Looks like OGH is suffering from BDS (Boris derangement syndrome). Can anyone name a political leader who looked good from a natural disaster?
It wasn't a natural disaster, but Mrs Thatcher after the Brighton Hotel bombing reacted very well. Mr Blair reacted very well to the death of Princess Diana and acted decisivly in the Foot and Mouth crisis. Mr Obama reacted well to several natural disasters. These three examples are are of "good leaders" regardless of one's political leanings. Mrs May and Mr Brown were bad at this kind of thing and were not "good leaders". We will soon see which way Mr Johnson falls in this respect.
Most farmers still haven't forgiven Blair for his actions in the F&M crisis.
Funny but I was thinking about the floods and the comparison with the F&M disaster, Richard. The latter was much worse of course.
I can't speak for 'most farmers' but you'd have to say the episode didn't help Blair, although I think it was more a case of his departments and cabinet colleagues reacting slowly and weakly rather than the fault of the PM himself.
If it's true farmers still hate him, and I can believe you, it may be because they never had much love for him in the first place. In other crises however he was capable of showing a deft touch. The death of Diana is a good example; likewise his intervention in the Balkans.
Thatcher was brilliant after Brighton. Obama generally got it right. May was hopeless at Grenfell. Brown was generally awkward.
I'm surprised how awkward Johnson has proved so far. The floods won't have done him much electoral damage, but his minders should perhaps keep him in more.
Yep I was only passing comment on the idea that Blair handled F&M well. It was over 3 weeks from the first identified case before the Government sought help from the military or extra financial help for the veterinary service and over 4 weeks before they held a cross departmental meeting to try and get on top of the emergency. That allowed the disease to spread right across the country. Nor was there any contingency planning for an outbreak.
The idea that Blair acted decisively as Eristdoof claims is simply untrue.
FOM seems to enjoy wide support in the polls, anyone noticed this?
I wonder if Labour should accept it as part of their Brexit deal
It doesn't, the polling actually shows voters prefer the Boris points system, the poll you referred to only mentioned EU workers being able to come here, nothing about uncontrolled free movement
This is rubbish, Doncaster North is held by Ed Miliband and is not even in the top 200 Tory target seats and Doncaster Central is not even in the top 100 Tory target seats, even Don Valley is only 69th Tory target but Boris still went there anyway to help despite voters buying properties on the flood plain being surprised when it floods
Yes. Its bollocks.
I think it is unlikely to make a tangible difference but Boris was awkward and lacked empathy. Mind you, it is almost impossible to offer any words of comfort to those who have suffered flooding. Over the years in business I dealt with many flood victims in our area, before serious sea defences were put in place, and you just feel utterly helpless and the smell is beyond belief and all invasive in peoples homes
It is a personal disaster for each and every owner and will take months, even years, to recover from
One day does not make a difference, agreed. But if every second time that Mr Johnson meets ordinary people, he gets heckled and he has no convincing response, then he is in trouble.
John Major was surprisingly good at meeting the public, and surprisingly won an election for it. With Mr Johnson I'm not so sure.
Assume the same applies to Corbyn?
Yes, the same applies to Corbyn. But Corbyn has shown himself to be fairly good when meeting the public. If the election was only about who performs better when meeting the people the Corbyn would win the election. (no I do not think that the election is only about who performs better when meeting the public)
Is that when Corbyn meets the public or when surrounds himself with adoring crowds?
The public. Example: after the Grenfell Tower Fire (just one example)
Obviously there would be no Labour supporters in social housing in London
I do believe some Tories may be underestimating Jeremy Corbyn for the second time...
Have just done the calculation based on the YouGov regional polling and got a Tory majority of 98, 75 Tory gains from Labour and 13 Tory losses to the LDs and have given 5 Tory seats as SNP gains
This is rubbish, Doncaster North is held by Ed Miliband and is not even in the top 200 Tory target seats and Doncaster Central is not even in the top 100 Tory target seats, even Don Valley is only 69th Tory target but Boris still went there anyway to help despite voters buying properties on the flood plain being surprised when it floods
Yes. Its bollocks.
I think it is unlikely to make a tangible difference but Boris was awkward and lacked empathy. Mind you, it is almost impossible to offer any words of comfort to those who have suffered flooding. Over the years in business I dealt with many flood victims in our area, before serious sea defences were put in place, and you just feel utterly helpless and the smell is beyond belief and all invasive in peoples homes
It is a personal disaster for each and every owner and will take months, even years, to recover from
One day does not make a difference, agreed. But if every second time that Mr Johnson meets ordinary people, he gets heckled and he has no convincing response, then he is in trouble.
John Major was surprisingly good at meeting the public, and surprisingly won an election for it. With Mr Johnson I'm not so sure.
Assume the same applies to Corbyn?
Yes, the same applies to Corbyn. But Corbyn has shown himself to be fairly good when meeting the public. If the election was only about who performs better when meeting the people the Corbyn would win the election. (no I do not think that the election is only about who performs better when meeting the public)
Is that when Corbyn meets the public or when surrounds himself with adoring crowds?
The public. Example: after the Grenfell Tower Fire (just one example)
Obviously there would be no Labour supporters in social housing in London
I do believe some Tories may be underestimating Jeremy Corbyn for the second time...
I've tried very hard to estimate him correctly, but I still can't work out how someone so simple-minded qualifies as a higher lifeform...
Of course in Leaverstan, £125 000 per child from an inheritance is very generous, it mostly becomes an issue in Southern Remania. What percentage of estates are going to be hit in Workington, and in Wimbledon?
Inheritance taxes are possibly the most effective form of wealth redistribution around. It is why the wealthy do not like them but the poor do.
The average house price is £226,769 so a £125k IHT threshold would destroy Labour with the average swing voter. It would be electoral suicide and IHT is already about the most unpopular tax there is
Of course in Leaverstan, £125 000 per child from an inheritance is very generous, it mostly becomes an issue in Southern Remania. What percentage of estates are going to be hit in Workington, and in Wimbledon?
Inheritance taxes are possibly the most effective form of wealth redistribution around. It is why the wealthy do not like them but the poor do.
The average house price is £226,769 so a £125k IHT threshold would destroy Labour with the average swing voter. It would be electoral suicide and IHT is already about the most unpopular tax there is
The latest Northern Ireland polling shows the nationalist vote higher than the unionist vote. Should that actually happen in the GE it would be seismic. The direction of travel is only one way. Johnson’s deal will just hurry it along a little. https://twitter.com/electionmapsuk/status/1194716512411631617?s=21
It actually has the DUP still ahead on 28% to 24% for SF and the AP third on 16%.
The Johnson Deal of course helps avoid the hard border in Ireland which really would have pushed a United Ireland along
This is rubbish, Doncaster North is held by Ed Miliband and is not even in the top 200 Tory target seats and Doncaster Central is not even in the top 100 Tory target seats, even Don Valley is only 69th Tory target but Boris still went there anyway to help despite voters buying properties on the flood plain being surprised when it floods
Yes. Its bollocks.
I think it is unlikely to make a tangible difference but Boris was awkward and lacked empathy. Mind you, it is almost impossible to offer any words of comfort to those who have suffered flooding. Over the years in business I dealt with many flood victims in our area, before serious sea defences were put in place, and you just feel utterly helpless and the smell is beyond belief and all invasive in peoples homes
It is a personal disaster for each and every owner and will take months, even years, to recover from
One day does not make a difference, agreed. But if every second time that Mr Johnson meets ordinary people, he gets heckled and he has no convincing response, then he is in trouble.
John Major was surprisingly good at meeting the public, and surprisingly won an election for it. With Mr Johnson I'm not so sure.
Assume the same applies to Corbyn?
Yes, the same applies to Corbyn. public)
Is that when Corbyn meets the public or when surrounds himself with adoring crowds?
The public. Example: after the Grenfell Tower Fire (just one example)
Obviously there would be no Labour supporters in social housing in London
I do believtime...
Have just done the calculatiain-parties-
Using the same method would probably have predicted an even bigger majority at this stage in 2017.
The YouGov figures show 19% for BXP across the Northeast! Ain't going to happen.
It may well do given they are standing in Labour seats still across the Northeast and of course there was no BXP taking Labour votes in 2017. In the NorthWest alone YouGov has 17 Labour seats going Tory.
If true Corbyn Labour faces annihilation and its lowest seat total in almost a century
Corbyn would never be in a pub. And that’s the thing. He’s a joyless puritanical ideologue who never talks about anything other than politics- and his particular brand of it.
I’d much rather have a night out with Boris. That would be much more fun.
It's tedious how people who've never met politicians are dogmatically certain what they're like. I've been in an Islington pub with Corbyn and several others - and I'm no kind of pub regular, and suspect he goes more than I do.
Sure, we chatted about (Italian) politics - a common interest, just as we do here. I wouldn't describe him as fun-loving - he's fairly self-effacing in private, though a good listener. Boris is naturally boisterous. Depends what sort of company you like, really. I'd prefer an evening with Jeremy, but that's because I like quietly pleasant people.
Of course in Leaverstan, £125 000 per child from an inheritance is very generous, it mostly becomes an issue in Southern Remania. What percentage of estates are going to be hit in Workington, and in Wimbledon?
Inheritance taxes are possibly the most effective form of wealth redistribution around. It is why the wealthy do not like them but the poor do.
The average house price is £226,769 so a £125k IHT threshold would destroy Labour with the average swing voter. It would be electoral suicide and IHT is already about the most unpopular tax there is
The proposal (IPPR report) is to abolish IHT and introduce a "lifetime gift tax" with a £125k threshold for each recipient. Currently IHT affects only 7% of estates.
Corbyn would never be in a pub. And that’s the thing. He’s a joyless puritanical ideologue who never talks about anything other than politics- and his particular brand of it.
I’d much rather have a night out with Boris. That would be much more fun.
It's tedious how people who've never met politicians are dogmatically certain what they're like. I've been in an Islington pub with Corbyn and several others - and I'm no kind of pub regular, and suspect he goes more than I do.
Sure, we chatted about (Italian) politics - a common interest, just as we do here. I wouldn't describe him as fun-loving - he's fairly self-effacing in private, though a good listener. Boris is naturally boisterous. Depends what sort of company you like, really. I'd prefer an evening with Jeremy, but that's because I like quietly pleasant people.
"boisterous" = wandering hands, drinking too much, losing a shoe, and soiling himself in the back of a taxi.
Of course in Leaverstan, £125 000 per child from an inheritance is very generous, it mostly becomes an issue in Southern Remania. What percentage of estates are going to be hit in Workington, and in Wimbledon?
Inheritance taxes are possibly the most effective form of wealth redistribution around. It is why the wealthy do not like them but the poor do.
The average house price is £226,r tax there is
The proposal (IPPR report) is to abolish IHT and introduce a "lifetime gift tax" with a £125k threshold for each recipient. Currently IHT affects only 7% of estates.
Thanks to Osborne's tax reforms yes, a lifetime gift threshold of £125k ie less than the average house price, would ensure a majority of voters would have to pay it on inheriting, getting help on the property ladder etc.
It would be the most unpopular tax in modern British history and electoral suicide for Corbyn Labour, guaranteeing a Tory landslide for Boris
Of course in Leaverstan, £125 000 per child from an inheritance is very generous, it mostly becomes an issue in Southern Remania. What percentage of estates are going to be hit in Workington, and in Wimbledon?
Inheritance taxes are possibly the most effective form of wealth redistribution around. It is why the wealthy do not like them but the poor do.
The average house price is £226,r tax there is
The proposal (IPPR report) is to abolish IHT and introduce a "lifetime gift tax" with a £125k threshold for each recipient. Currently IHT affects only 7% of estates.
Thanks to Osborne's tax reforms yes, a lifetime gift threshold of £125k ie less than the average house price, would ensure a majority of voters would have to pay it on inheriting, getting help on the property ladder etc.
It would be the most unpopular tax in modern British history
If house prices were level over the country you'd have a point; I suspect those people living on council estates in the wales, Scotland, north of England would consider it a fantastic idea. After all a good tax is one that someone else pays
Corbyn would never be in a pub. And that’s the thing. He’s a joyless puritanical ideologue who never talks about anything other than politics- and his particular brand of it.
I’d much rather have a night out with Boris. That would be much more fun.
It's tedious how people who've never met politicians are dogmatically certain what they're like. I've been in an Islington pub with Corbyn and several others - and I'm no kind of pub regular, and suspect he goes more than I do.
Sure, we chatted about (Italian) politics - a common interest, just as we do here. I wouldn't describe him as fun-loving - he's fairly self-effacing in private, though a good listener. Boris is naturally boisterous. Depends what sort of company you like, really. I'd prefer an evening with Jeremy, but that's because I like quietly pleasant people.
"boisterous" = wandering hands, drinking too much, losing a shoe, and soiling himself in the back of a taxi.
If BJ has shat himself in the back of a taxi, i am sure he will want to keep that quiet! Mind you he has form for soiling things! Think back to earlier this year when he soiled some living room furniture whilst shouting at his partner to "get off my fucking laptop!". I think BJ soils the office of Prime Minister. The Tory/ Brexit supporting media are throwing everything at Corbyn. I think they are going to assist Corbyn by people thinking I am going to vote Labour anyway, so the Tories cannot govern without proper parliamentry scrutiny.
Of course in Leaverstan, £125 000 per child from an inheritance is very generous, it mostly becomes an issue in Southern Remania. What percentage of estates are going to be hit in Workington, and in Wimbledon?
Inheritance taxes are possibly the most effective form of wealth redistribution around. It is why the wealthy do not like them but the poor do.
The average house price is £226,r tax there is
The proposal (IPPR report) is to abolish IHT and introduce a "lifetime gift tax" with a £125k threshold for each recipient. Currently IHT affects only 7% of estates.
Thanks to Osborne's tax reforms yes, a lifetime gift threshold of £125k ie less than the average house price, would ensure a majority of voters would have to pay it on inheriting, getting help on the property ladder etc.
It would be the most unpopular tax in modern British history
If house prices were level over the country you'd have a point; I suspect those people living on council estates in the wales, Scotland, north of England would consider it a fantastic idea. After all a good tax is one that someone else pays
Of course in Leaverstan, £125 000 per child from an inheritance is very generous, it mostly becomes an issue in Southern Remania. What percentage of estates are going to be hit in Workington, and in Wimbledon?
Inheritance taxes are possibly the most effective form of wealth redistribution around. It is why the wealthy do not like them but the poor do.
The average house price is £226,r tax there is
The proposal (IPPR report) is to abolish IHT and introduce a "lifetime gift tax" with a £125k threshold for each recipient. Currently IHT affects only 7% of estates.
Thanks to Osborne's tax reforms yes, a lifetime gift threshold of £125k ie less than the average house price, would ensure a majority of voters would have to pay it on inheriting, getting help on the property ladder etc.
It would be the most unpopular tax in modern British history
If house prices were level over the country you'd have a point; I suspect those people living on council estates in the wales, Scotland, north of England would consider it a fantastic idea. After all a good tax is one that someone else pays
Corbyn would never be in a pub. And that’s the thing. He’s a joyless puritanical ideologue who never talks about anything other than politics- and his particular brand of it.
I’d much rather have a night out with Boris. That would be much more fun.
It's tedious how people who've never met politicians are dogmatically certain what they're like. I've been in an Islington pub with Corbyn and several others - and I'm no kind of pub regular, and suspect he goes more than I do.
Sure, we chatted about (Italian) politics - a common interest, just as we do here. I wouldn't describe him as fun-loving - he's fairly self-effacing in private, though a good listener. Boris is naturally boisterous. Depends what sort of company you like, really. I'd prefer an evening with Jeremy, but that's because I like quietly pleasant people.
"boisterous" = wandering hands, drinking too much, losing a shoe, and soiling himself in the back of a taxi.
If BJ has shat himself in the back of a taxi, i am sure he will want to keep that quiet! Mind you he has form for soiling things! Think back to earlier this year when he soiled some living room furniture whilst shouting at his partner to "get off my fucking laptop!". I think BJ soils the office of Prime Minister. The Tory/ Brexit supporting media are throwing everything at Corbyn. I think they are going to assist Corbyn by people thinking I am going to vote Labour anyway, so the Tories cannot govern without proper parliamentry scrutiny.
They aren't, diehard Remainer fanatics like you might but the Tories are now doing even better with working class voters than they are nationally with both polls out today and heading for a comfortable majority
The proposal (IPPR report) is to abolish IHT and introduce a "lifetime gift tax" with a £125k threshold for each recipient. Currently IHT affects only 7% of estates.
What an actual politician would do with a good policy idea like this would be to set the threshold at a million pounds per recipient, then after a few years start progressively dropping it so that 10 years later it was at say £250K, and leave the final £125K to fiscal drag.
Of course in Leaverstan, £125 000 per child from an inheritance is very generous, it mostly becomes an issue in Southern Remania. What percentage of estates are going to be hit in Workington, and in Wimbledon?
Inheritance taxes are possibly the most effective form of wealth redistribution around. It is why the wealthy do not like them but the poor do.
The average house price is £226,r tax there is
The proposal (IPPR report) is to abolish IHT and introduce a "lifetime gift tax" with a £125k threshold for each recipient. Currently IHT affects only 7% of estates.
Thanks to Osborne's tax reforms yes, a lifetime gift threshold of £125k ie less than the average house price, would ensure a majority of voters would have to pay it on inheriting, getting help on the property ladder etc.
It would be the most unpopular tax in modern British history
If house prices were level over the country you'd have a point; I suspect those people living on council estates in the wales, Scotland, north of England would consider it a fantastic idea. After all a good tax is one that someone else pays
Corbyn would never be in a pub. And that’s the thing. He’s a joyless puritanical ideologue who never talks about anything other than politics- and his particular brand of it.
I’d much rather have a night out with Boris. That would be much more fun.
It's tedious how people who've never met politicians are dogmatically certain what they're like. I've been in an Islington pub with Corbyn and several others - and I'm no kind of pub regular, and suspect he goes more than I do.
Sure, we chatted about (Italian) politics - a common interest, just as we do here. I wouldn't describe him as fun-loving - he's fairly self-effacing in private, though a good listener. Boris is naturally boisterous. Depends what sort of company you like, really. I'd prefer an evening with Jeremy, but that's because I like quietly pleasant people.
"boisterous" = wandering hands, drinking too much, losing a shoe, and soiling himself in the back of a taxi.
If BJ has shat himself in the back of a taxi, i am sure he will want to keep that quiet! Mind you he has form for soiling things! Think back to earlier this year when he soiled some living room furniture whilst shouting at his partner to "get off my fucking laptop!". I think BJ soils the office of Prime Minister. The Tory/ Brexit supporting media are throwing everything at Corbyn. I think they are going to assist Corbyn by people thinking I am going to vote Labour anyway, so the Tories cannot govern without proper parliamentry scrutiny.
They aren't, diehard Remainer fanatics like you might but the Tories are now doing even better with working class voters than they are nationally with both polls out today and heading for a comfortable majority
I would not describe myself as a "diehard fanatic". I have not been on an anti-brexit march or donated money to anti-brexit organisations or delievered leaflets. I am someone who thinks Brexit in any form is worse for this country than continued membership of the EU.
Looks like OGH is suffering from BDS (Boris derangement syndrome). Can anyone name a political leader who looked good from a natural disaster?
The clips played on the radio today had people tell Boris it was about time he turned up - as if he could personally assist - then when asked what was required the locals said actually nothing now, but help was too late in coming (which it always is in these situations).
I think it's just that people who have been flooded out of their houses are pissed off watching the prime minister do his Benny Hill impersonation with a mop and bucket as a PR stunt for his reelection campaign
My point above. People expect him to be there but he is useless as he can’t magically remove water and instantly dry and renovate properties since he”s not magic.
This is rubbish, Doncaster North is held by Ed Miliband and is not even in the top 200 Tory target seats and Doncaster Central is not even in the top 100 Tory target seats, even Don Valley is only 69th Tory target but Boris still went there anyway to help despite voters buying properties on the flood plain being surprised when it floods
Yes. Its bollocks.
I think it is unlikely to make a tangible difference but Boris was awkward and lacked empathy. Mind you, it is almost impossible to offer any words of comfort to those who have suffered flooding. Over the years in business I dealt with many flood victims in our area, before serious sea defences were put in place, and you just feel utterly helpless and the smell is beyond belief and all invasive in peoples homes
It is a personal disaster for each and every owner and will take months, even years, to recover from
One day does not make a difference, agreed. But if every second time that Mr Johnson meets ordinary people, he gets heckled and he has no convincing response, then he is in trouble.
John Major was surprisingly good at meeting the public, and surprisingly won an election for it. With Mr Johnson I'm not so sure.
Assume the same applies to Corbyn?
Yes, the same applies to Corbyn. But Corbyn has shown himself to be fairly good when meeting the public. If the election was only about who performs better when meeting the people the Corbyn would win the election. (no I do not think that the election is only about who performs better when meeting the public)
Is that when Corbyn meets the public or when surrounds himself with adoring crowds?
The public. Example: after the Grenfell Tower Fire (just one example)
Obviously there would be no Labour supporters in social housing in London
I do believe some Tories may be underestimating Jeremy Corbyn for the second time...
I’m not a Tory. I can’t stand Corbyn though, and cannot see his appeal at all.
Of course in Leaverstan, £125 000 per child from an inheritance is very generous, it mostly becomes an issue in Southern Remania. What percentage of estates are going to be hit in Workington, and in Wimbledon?
Inheritance taxes are possibly the most effective form of wealth redistribution around. It is why the wealthy do not like them but the poor do.
The average house price is £226,r tax there is
The proposal (IPPR report) is to abolish IHT and introduce a "lifetime gift tax" with a £125k threshold for each recipient. Currently IHT affects only 7% of estates.
Thanks to Osborne's tax reforms yes, a lifetime gift threshold of £125k ie less than the average house price, would ensure a majority of voters would have to pay it on inheriting, getting help on the property ladder etc.
It would be the most unpopular tax in modern British history
If house prices were level over the country you'd have a point; I suspect those people living on council estates in the wales, Scotland, north of England would consider it a fantastic idea. After all a good tax is one that someone else pays
Corbyn would never be in a pub. And that’s the thing. He’s a joyless puritanical ideologue who never talks about anything other than politics- and his particular brand of it.
I’d much rather have a night out with Boris. That would be much more fun.
It's tedious how people who've never met politicians are dogmatically certain what they're like. I've been in an Islington pub with Corbyn and several others - and I'm no kind of pub regular, and suspect he goes more than I do.
Sure, we chatted about (Italian) politics - a common interest, just as we do here. I wouldn't describe him as fun-loving - he's fairly self-effacing in private, though a good listener. Boris is naturally boisterous. Depends what sort of company you like, really. I'd prefer an evening with Jeremy, but that's because I like quietly pleasant people.
"boisterous" = wandering hands, drinking too much, losing a shoe, and soiling himself in the back of a taxi.
If BJ has shat himself in the back of a taxi, i am sure he will want to keep that quiet! Mind you he has form for soiling things! Think back to earlier this year when he soiled some living room furniture whilst shouting at his partner to "get off my fucking laptop!". I think BJ soils the office of Prime Minister. The Tory/ Brexit supporting media are throwing everything at Corbyn. I think they are going to assist Corbyn by people thinking I am going to vote Labour anyway, so the Tories cannot govern without proper parliamentry scrutiny.
They aren't, diehard Remainer fanatics like you might but the Tories are now doing even better with working class voters than they are nationally with both polls out today and heading for a comfortable majority
I would not describe myself as a "diehard fanatic". I have not been on an anti-brexit march or donated money to anti-brexit organisations or delievered leaflets. I am someone who thinks Brexit in any form is worse for this country than continued membership of the EU.
You are a diehard Remainer fanatic as your every post proves
Of course in Leaverstan, £125 000 per child from an inheritance is very generous, it mostly becomes an issue in Southern Remania. What percentage of estates are going to be hit in Workington, and in Wimbledon?
Inheritance taxes are possibly the most effective form of wealth redistribution around. It is why the wealthy do not like them but the poor do.
The average house price is £226,r tax there is
The proposal (IPPR report) is to abolish IHT and introduce a "lifetime gift tax" with a £125k threshold for each recipient. Currently IHT affects only 7% of estates.
It would be the most unpopular tax in modern British history
If house prices were level over the country you'd have a point; I suspect those people living on council estates in the wales, Scotland, north of England would consider it a fantastic idea. After all a good tax is one that someone else pays
65% means Tory landslide if Labour raises IHT in effect with a new gifts tax
Thinking it's a positive move and voting based on it is an entirety different thing.
Most people don't inherit anything.
Rubbish, the biggest Tory poll surge of the last 15 years was the Osborne IHT cut, the biggest collapse the dementia tax.
Usual Labour class war crap and increasingly as house prices have risen more and more people do inherit
That Tory poll surge was due to the Tories adopting the Daily Mail's agenda on IHT. I have seen the letter that was written by the late Robin Essar, which was instrumental in Cameron deciding to instruct Osborne into announcing that in 2007. It is funny how Cameron never mentions that in his memoirs! But who would want to be associated with Cameron now anyway...
Comments
Answer to question: No they are just stirring and making mischief.
He's entitled to his opinion.
Corbyn somewhat bucked the trend that leader popularity = landslide.
Corbyn's policies are what gets Labour votes + Momentum ground game.
I will stick with a Hung Parliament.
We've just had a bereavement of a relative, and dealt with the estate. He left a house plus savings, which would have been in excess of Jezza's IHT tax grab. He was a Postie all his working life.
You need to stop assuming the North is all flat caps and whippets.
I wonder if Labour should accept it as part of their Brexit deal
That would be .... brave
BTW, have you seen the Rotten Tomatoes score on The Mandalorian?
I agree with the Grauardian....
https://www.theguardian.com/tv-and-radio/2019/nov/12/the-mandalorian-review-star-wars-jon-favreau
The elections etc. website has published their second forecast. This looks at a range of indicators including polls, betting sites and different models.
It is currently showing a Conservative majority at about 60% likelihood.
I also told him that I was leaving his share to the RSPCA if Commie Jez gets in.
(We saw Harrison Ford eating dinner on his own in a hotel restaurant during the Los Angeles fires. My son was SO excited. But too shy to go and say hello.)
I appreciate that the rich do like to consolidate their loot, so do not like inheritance tax. Nonetheless amongst taxes it is perhaps the most suited to promoting wealth redistribution. It all depends whether you are rich or are poor how you feel about the issue.
There is a difference between putting on a show and connecting with people. The former involves being noticed and talked about. The second involves being liked and people wanting to spend more time with you (and by extension your policies). It's why Ken Bruce remains in gainful employment.
Corbyn looks like a loser because he doesn't perform, but people who meet him or see him meeting others realise he's not the batshit-crazy monster portrayed because he can talk to them as a human being and sound like he cares. It's why his figures go up when he gets equal airtime (although he needs to watch the tetchiness he sometimes displays and treat the media as a necessary way of conveying the likeability).
Johnson continues to be noticed and to temporarily disarm through sheer presence, but I'm not convinced he converts people. Even small stuff shows he's playing to an audience and holding court rather than talking to "you" - in much the same way he probably did in the JCR at Oxford. He does selfie-style videos.. literally facing voters from the palm of their own hand.. but still refers to "folks" (plural third person) rather than "you" (singular second). He prefers comedy one-liners to warm humour.
I'm no big fan of either leader, but if both were talking in the pub on a subject other than politics, I could see myself gravitating towards Corbyn's table rather than Johnson's.
I’d much rather have a night out with Boris. That would be much more fun.
Jeremy Corbyn’s key union supporter, Unite’s Len McCluskey, sparked a backlash on Tuesday as he told the Labour leader that victory in the general election means taking a tough line on free movement of workers.
https://www.theguardian.com/politics/2019/nov/13/mccluskey-tells-corbyn-defy-calls-extend-freedom-of-movement
Sure, there'd be a lot of collateral damage, but the country would thank me.
FOR THE AVOIDANCE OF ANY DOUBT: THIS IS A JOKE.
This one seems to show Con rising and Lab perhaps leveling off?
https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/2019_United_Kingdom_general_election#/media/File:Uk2022polling15average.png
My parents grafted from age 14, paid tax on this money multiple times, and now some twat who went to private school and grew up in a massive house wants to grab a load of it to give to the terminally idle. That isn't wealth redistribution, it is hollowing out the middle and lower middle classes.
If you want more tax, go after the people who are actually rich. But that's too difficult, so just hit working people again.
P.S. I've never voted Tory in my life, but it now looks unlikely that I will ever vote Labour again, either.
Ludicrous laying Betfair jollies
Will the UK trend toward rural-urban Tory-Labour split
The missed (true) Norwegian middle ground
How the northern Irish tail wagged the Brexit dog
Unpopularity of the centre ground.
Bookmakers refusing to lay bets
Coalfields and cities, Labour's uneasy coalition
The sundering of Scottish Labour.
Labour - too strong to die, too weak to rule
Johnson - underestimated man
Larger the Tory majority, softer the Brexit
Ladies and gentleman, in this election we have, in one corner, Yorkshire common sense, and in the other, state of the art voter management software written by whizzkids with PhDs in physics. As a non-Yorkshireman who has a great love of that county, I can't not root for Yorkshire common sense and straight talking.
https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Opinion_polling_for_the_2019_United_Kingdom_general_election#/media/File:Uk2022polling15average.png
- inverse relationship between Con and Brexit (and before that UKIP)
- inverse relationship between Lab and LD
Big question then - meat pie (or even a pie barm) from Wigan or pork pie from Melton?
I can't speak for 'most farmers' but you'd have to say the episode didn't help Blair, although I think it was more a case of his departments and cabinet colleagues reacting slowly and weakly rather than the fault of the PM himself.
If it's true farmers still hate him, and I can believe you, it may be because they never had much love for him in the first place. In other crises however he was capable of showing a deft touch. The death of Diana is a good example; likewise his intervention in the Balkans.
Thatcher was brilliant after Brighton. Obama generally got it right. May was hopeless at Grenfell. Brown was generally awkward.
I'm surprised how awkward Johnson has proved so far. The floods won't have done him much electoral damage, but his minders should perhaps keep him in more.
I think it's just that people who have been flooded out of their houses are pissed off watching the prime minister do his Benny Hill impersonation with a mop and bucket as a PR stunt for his reelection campaign
You ask a question then treat it as a statement of fact.
I say it again - pillock
https://yougov.co.uk/topics/politics/articles-reports/2019/11/08/regional-voting-intentions-show-both-main-parties-
The idea that Blair acted decisively as Eristdoof claims is simply untrue.
The YouGov figures show 19% for BXP across the Northeast! Ain't going to happen.
The Johnson Deal of course helps avoid the hard border in Ireland which really would have pushed a United Ireland along
If true Corbyn Labour faces annihilation and its lowest seat total in almost a century
Sure, we chatted about (Italian) politics - a common interest, just as we do here. I wouldn't describe him as fun-loving - he's fairly self-effacing in private, though a good listener. Boris is naturally boisterous. Depends what sort of company you like, really. I'd prefer an evening with Jeremy, but that's because I like quietly pleasant people.
It would be the most unpopular tax in modern British history and electoral suicide for Corbyn Labour, guaranteeing a Tory landslide for Boris
https://yougov.co.uk/topics/politics/articles-reports/2015/01/07/public-attitudes-inheritance-tax
65% means Tory landslide if Labour raises IHT in effect with a new gifts tax
Most people don't inherit anything.
Usual Labour class war crap and increasingly as house prices have risen more and more people do inherit