Re comments in the last thread that it is nonsensical to argue both that an LD/Plaid/Green alliance is good for the LDs whereas TBP not standing in Con seats is bad for the Tories, I can see how that could be true - if the toxicity of TBP is much greater than that of the LDs' allies.
I think the problem for Boris is that he can only keep hold of theCon-LD switchers if his majority looks in doubt. If he's looking comfortable, it's harderto play on the fear of Cirbyn as PM. Thus, perhaps the next moveis a swing back to Lab and LD. Before a swing back again. The result of the election will depend upin where in this oscillation we end up!
Looks at watch....surely it must be that time of day where another PPC has been found to be an antisemite or islamophobe or just have record of offensive jokes, resulting in them being made to.walk the plank.
I assume Farage announcement meants that BXT will not compete Totnes.
MarqueeMark will be pleased.
Yep!
But I really couldn't ever see them standing if it in any way gave Dr. Sarah Wollaston an improved chance of staying an MP. Her actions really have fired up Brexiteers. Along with Grieve and Soubry, she really fires up the gammon blood pressure. And although Totnes itself might be Wollaston-vegan, there's a lot of Tory gammon in the rest of the constituency.....)
Its Remainers that want to keep us in the company of parties like Vox. Tories are trying to get us away from them.
It’s people like you who want us to be more closely aligned with the joys of the US Republican Party
No I don't. I want us to be an independent country on the global stage not aligned with anybody overseas.
If I was an American I'd vote Democrat unless they choose someone crazy like Warren or Sanders in which case I'd probably vote Libertarian. I don't like anything to do with the modern GOP - the GOP I could like was the party of Reagan not Trump.
Yes but we’re too small and weak to compete on the global stage. We are going to be surrounded on all sides by a growing superpower while we decline even further into irrelevance. All we can do is accept scraps of the Yanks table.
What superpower? We're not surrounded by either USA [the worlds only current superpower] or China [the worlds next superpower].
We are quite big and agile enough to compete on the global stage.
Makes you wonder....has farage only just decided to this. Was he waiting for the remain alliance to announce first...did the tories have any prior knowledge.
I don't think trying to game the system to your advantage often pays off. I don't know any Tory remainers, but what if their reaction to the Farage announcement is that if the Tories are going to win any thanks to TBP coming to the rescue, why not have a flutter on the Lib Dems to make a risk free point?
Am I right in thinking the BXP deal only applies to the 317 seats currently held by the Conservatives?
In theory, BXP could stand in every other seat though it seems some other seats aren't going to be contested.
Having bought Conservative seats at 325 I'm not too bothered from a punting angle but presumably BXP aren't folding up - they will be looking at the negotiations for the future trade and political arrangements for the EU and seeing if we can crash out to WTO on 31/12/20 rather than 31/10/19. Boris Johnson refuses to discount that possibility of course.
Another sound bet in light of Farage: With BXP non contesting The Cities of London and Westminster (Umunna) 10/11 with Bet365 on Tories is great value.
Please PBers - any other constituency tips you want to share in light of the news??
But farage signalling is clear today. If you want brexit and wavering right leaning voter, vote tory. If you could never vote tory, vote BXP not Labour.
That is a massive change to a few weeks ago where he was giving it that only real brexit is via BXP.
Am feeling more confident than before that the Lib Dems aren't going to make major progress in this election. They've very few ultra-marginal targets available, and not that many more that seem likely to fall on outsized swings in deep Remain areas.
Everything therefore depends now on Labour's ability to get out the vote. Theresa May nearly won in 2017 with about a 2.5% lead; if Labour can't win back enough support to close the gap to something very close to that, then the Tories are home and hosed. It's then just a matter of the size of the majority.
Personally, I've not changed my mind about this election being a close one, but I think the probability of the Cons just making it over the finishing line has increased.
Another sound bet in light of Farage: With BXT non contesting The Cities of London and Westminster (Umunna) 10/11 with Bet365 on Tories is great value.
Please PBers - any other constituency tips you want to share in light of the news??
I wouldn't have thought the two cities were exactly going to be drowning in Faragists.
Makes you wonder....has farage only just decided to this. Was he waiting for the remain alliance to announce first...did the tories have any prior knowledge.
I think the polls showing BXP down 5-6% forced his hand
So this has worked out rather well for Boris, he has stayed firm and Farage has caved in, there is no joint decision or bad optics of the 2 on stage together making this announcement. You sense in many of the Northern battlegrounds if BXP target Labour wards and voters the split at worse between Tories & Labour to BXP will be 50/50 which combined with Lab stay at home voters and Lab/LD switchers could see plenty of seats go blue.
We've already seen with the Workington poll that the Tories are capable of making gains with or without BXP standing.
Can't help feeling that there has been a bit of an overreaction here but am I brave enough to sell Tory seats at 338? Nope. Selling Lib Dems at 36 looks a better bet (although I full accept that the logic of that is that I probably should be buying Tories at 344).
I am still struggling to come to terms with how Labour are doing. And I speak as someone who watched the results in Scotland in 2015 in disbelief. Will we see something similar in swathes of England outside the cities? Surely stop the (evil) Tory rallying cry has not lost all resonance?
Its Remainers that want to keep us in the company of parties like Vox. Tories are trying to get us away from them.
It’s people like you who want us to be more closely aligned with the joys of the US Republican Party
No I don't. I want us to be an independent country on the global stage not aligned with anybody overseas.
If I was an American I'd vote Democrat unless they choose someone crazy like Warren or Sanders in which case I'd probably vote Libertarian. I don't like anything to do with the modern GOP - the GOP I could like was the party of Reagan not Trump.
Yes but we’re too small and weak to compete on the global stage. We are going to be surrounded on all sides by a growing superpower while we decline even further into irrelevance. All we can do is accept scraps of the Yanks table.
What superpower? We're not surrounded by either USA [the worlds only current superpower] or China [the worlds next superpower].
We are quite big and agile enough to compete on the global stage.
We will be surrounded on all sides by the EU which is an incipient superpower. Europe is growing, the U.K. is dying. Harking back to our ties with places like Australia is like an pasty, terminally ill ex-boyfriend looking to get back with the ex he dumped when she has happily moved on to to bronzed Pacific hunks.
Can someone explain where the "Tory gammon" phraseology come from? Heard it a lot over past couple of weeks - but never heard it at all before then.
A subset of angry right-wingers are old men with blotchy red and white faces, which get redder when they shout nonsense at Question Time panellists. This gives them a somewhat bacony appearance.
Surely any sensible BXP candidate in very tight tory marginal seats they just lost due to May in 2017 will not stand either eg Canterbury, Kensington. If Brexit is the objective , a bit more witnessing of the list is needed.
Can someone explain where the "Tory gammon" phraseology come from? Heard it a lot over past couple of weeks - but never heard it at all before then.
A subset of angry right-wingers are old men with blotchy red and white faces, which get redder when they shout nonsense at Question Time panellists. This gives them a somewhat bacony appearance.
I would think the most gammony place in the country this afternoon will.be Labour HQ.
Another sound bet in light of Farage: With BXP non contesting The Cities of London and Westminster (Umunna) 10/11 with Bet365 on Tories is great value.
Please PBers - any other constituency tips you want to share in light of the news??
There is four and a half weeks still to go and we haven't had the manifestos yet
And think they will stand down in some of those as well.
Why the hell does he think that the Tories need to win 50 Labour marginals to get a majority? The only reason I can think of is that they would need to lose 40 seats to the LibDems/SNP. That seems way too high.
Am feeling more confident than before that the Lib Dems aren't going to make major progress in this election. They've very few ultra-marginal targets available, and not that many more that seem likely to fall on outsized swings in deep Remain areas.
Everything therefore depends now on Labour's ability to get out the vote. Theresa May nearly won in 2017 with about a 2.5% lead; if Labour can't win back enough support to close the gap to something very close to that, then the Tories are home and hosed. It's then just a matter of the size of the majority.
Personally, I've not changed my mind about this election being a close one, but I think the probability of the Cons just making it over the finishing line has increased.
Still an awfully long way to go though.
It's looking like Swinson's Revoke policy was a miscalculation. They were already ahead of Labour on trust when it comes to Brexit and didn't need to differentiate further.
Its Remainers that want to keep us in the company of parties like Vox. Tories are trying to get us away from them.
It’s people like you who want us to be more closely aligned with the joys of the US Republican Party
No I don't. I want us to be an independent country on the global stage not aligned with anybody overseas.
If I was an American I'd vote Democrat unless they choose someone crazy like Warren or Sanders in which case I'd probably vote Libertarian. I don't like anything to do with the modern GOP - the GOP I could like was the party of Reagan not Trump.
Yes but we’re too small and weak to compete on the global stage. We are going to be surrounded on all sides by a growing superpower while we decline even further into irrelevance. All we can do is accept scraps of the Yanks table.
What superpower? We're not surrounded by either USA [the worlds only current superpower] or China [the worlds next superpower].
We are quite big and agile enough to compete on the global stage.
We will be surrounded on all sides by the EU which is an incipient superpower. Europe is growing, the U.K. is dying. Harking back to our ties with places like Australia is like an pasty, terminally ill ex-boyfriend looking to get back with the ex he dumped when she has happily moved on to to bronzed Pacific hunks.
LMAO! You think Europe is a superpower?
Europe had superpowers until WWII, the idea of Europe as a power died decades ago. Europe is dying, European share of population, power and global GDP is in a complete downward trend.
Can someone explain where the "Tory gammon" phraseology come from? Heard it a lot over past couple of weeks - but never heard it at all before then.
A subset of angry right-wingers are old men with blotchy red and white faces, which get redder when they shout nonsense at Question Time panellists. This gives them a somewhat bacony appearance.
I would think the most gammony place in the country this afternoon will.be Labour HQ.
You might very well think that. I couldn't possibly comment.
And think they will stand down in some of those as well.
Why the hell does he think that the Tories need to win 50 Labour marginals to get a majority? The only reason I can think of is that they would need to lose 40 seats to the LibDems/SNP. That seems way too high.
There's a media narrative that has developed 'how incredibly difficult this all is for the Tories'. I think it's to do with the memory of Election 2017 and I explore it in my forthcoming piece.
And think they will stand down in some of those as well.
Why the hell does he think that the Tories need to win 50 Labour marginals to get a majority? The only reason I can think of is that they would need to lose 40 seats to the LibDems/SNP. That seems way too high.
Surely any sensible BXP candidate in very tight tory marginal seats they just lost due to May in 2017 will not stand either eg Canterbury, Kensington. If Brexit is the objective , a bit more witnessing of the list is needed.
It does seem to me that potential Tory voters are quite savvy to the concept a vote for BXP is a vote for Corbyn. I think in Canterbury, Kensington etc they will poll weak numbers (though potentially enough to keep the seats red).
BXP will be squeezed further in these seats but the problem we have now is if they only stand in 300 seats we can read even less in how they might effect the election from National Polling as many people will say they vote BXP when they don't have that choice.
Its Remainers that want to keep us in the company of parties like Vox. Tories are trying to get us away from them.
It’s people like you who want us to be more closely aligned with the joys of the US Republican Party
No I don't. I want us to be an independent country on the global stage not aligned with anybody overseas.
If I was an American I'd vote Democrat unless they choose someone crazy like Warren or Sanders in which case I'd probably vote Libertarian. I don't like anything to do with the modern GOP - the GOP I could like was the party of Reagan not Trump.
Yes but we’re too small and weak to compete on the global stage. We are going to be surrounded on all sides by a growing superpower while we decline even further into irrelevance. All we can do is accept scraps of the Yanks table.
What superpower? We're not surrounded by either USA [the worlds only current superpower] or China [the worlds next superpower].
We are quite big and agile enough to compete on the global stage.
We will be surrounded on all sides by the EU which is an incipient superpower. Europe is growing, the U.K. is dying. Harking back to our ties with places like Australia is like an pasty, terminally ill ex-boyfriend looking to get back with the ex he dumped when she has happily moved on to to bronzed Pacific hunks.
LMAO! You think Europe is a superpower?
Europe had superpowers until WWII, the idea of Europe as a power died decades ago. Europe is dying, European share of population, power and global GDP is in a complete downward trend.
You sound like the kind of person who would have written off China 30 years ago. Europe is only now beginning to recover from the geopolitical damage of the world wars.
Can't help feeling that there has been a bit of an overreaction here but am I brave enough to sell Tory seats at 338? Nope. Selling Lib Dems at 36 looks a better bet (although I full accept that the logic of that is that I probably should be buying Tories at 344).
I am still struggling to come to terms with how Labour are doing. And I speak as someone who watched the results in Scotland in 2015 in disbelief. Will we see something similar in swathes of England outside the cities? Surely stop the (evil) Tory rallying cry has not lost all resonance?
English Labour won't roll over and die, sadly. And they don't have very many seats left to lose outside the metropolitan counties anyway.
I think the Tories can win the election with 20-30 gains from Labour. But I'm not at all sure they've that many gains in them.
My hunch is that the Lib Dem vote will be flakier than many believe, but the Labour vote will be much stickier.
Am feeling more confident than before that the Lib Dems aren't going to make major progress in this election. They've very few ultra-marginal targets available, and not that many more that seem likely to fall on outsized swings in deep Remain areas.
Everything therefore depends now on Labour's ability to get out the vote. Theresa May nearly won in 2017 with about a 2.5% lead; if Labour can't win back enough support to close the gap to something very close to that, then the Tories are home and hosed. It's then just a matter of the size of the majority.
Personally, I've not changed my mind about this election being a close one, but I think the probability of the Cons just making it over the finishing line has increased.
Still an awfully long way to go though.
Interestingly, I'm beginning to shift the other way. I'm thinking my initial forecast of 21 seats (+9) is a bit skinny, in the context of (a) the libdems holding on at 16% in almost every poll, and (b) them being able to paint the Tories as Farage No Dealers in the South East and London. (I don't think the libdems ever had any chance in the South West, which is where the Brexit Party standing down will have the biggest effect.)
And think they will stand down in some of those as well.
Why the hell does he think that the Tories need to win 50 Labour marginals to get a majority? The only reason I can think of is that they would need to lose 40 seats to the LibDems/SNP. That seems way too high.
OK This makes sense now Joe Armitage is obviously a Tory ' "we" ' and it helps the narrative to make this seen as a close race to get out supporters too. But certain sections of the media are definitely indulging in this too.
Its Remainers that want to keep us in the company of parties like Vox. Tories are trying to get us away from them.
It’s people like you who want us to be more closely aligned with the joys of the US Republican Party
No I don't. I want us to be an independent country on the global stage not aligned with anybody overseas.
If I was an American I'd vote Democrat unless they choose someone crazy like Warren or Sanders in which case I'd probably vote Libertarian. I don't like anything to do with the modern GOP - the GOP I could like was the party of Reagan not Trump.
Yes but we’re too small and weak to compete on the global stage. We are going to be surrounded on all sides by a growing superpower while we decline even further into irrelevance. All we can do is accept scraps of the Yanks table.
What superpower? We're not surrounded by either USA [the worlds only current superpower] or China [the worlds next superpower].
We are quite big and agile enough to compete on the global stage.
We will be surrounded on all sides by the EU which is an incipient superpower. Europe is growing, the U.K. is dying. Harking back to our ties with places like Australia is like an pasty, terminally ill ex-boyfriend looking to get back with the ex he dumped when she has happily moved on to to bronzed Pacific hunks.
LMAO! You think Europe is a superpower?
Europe had superpowers until WWII, the idea of Europe as a power died decades ago. Europe is dying, European share of population, power and global GDP is in a complete downward trend.
Am feeling more confident than before that the Lib Dems aren't going to make major progress in this election. They've very few ultra-marginal targets available, and not that many more that seem likely to fall on outsized swings in deep Remain areas.
Everything therefore depends now on Labour's ability to get out the vote. Theresa May nearly won in 2017 with about a 2.5% lead; if Labour can't win back enough support to close the gap to something very close to that, then the Tories are home and hosed. It's then just a matter of the size of the majority.
Personally, I've not changed my mind about this election being a close one, but I think the probability of the Cons just making it over the finishing line has increased.
Still an awfully long way to go though.
It's looking like Swinson's Revoke policy was a miscalculation. They were already ahead of Labour on trust when it comes to Brexit and didn't need to differentiate further.
Wait till the final week then a CON majority equals certain Brexit.
And think they will stand down in some of those as well.
Why the hell does he think that the Tories need to win 50 Labour marginals to get a majority? The only reason I can think of is that they would need to lose 40 seats to the LibDems/SNP. That seems way too high.
There's a media narrative that has developed 'how incredibly difficult this all is for the Tories'. I think it's to do with the memory of Election 2017 and I explore it in my forthcoming piece.
Its a lot more helpful than the Tory landslide narrative was in 2017, that is for sure. And the fact is that the use of the old boundaries once again is very helpful to Labour in particular. But it is like everyone wanting to rerun the stories of campaign car crashes in the first couple of days. It was nonsense. Even poor Emily will eventually be forgotten (if not by herself in the middle of the night).
And think they will stand down in some of those as well.
Why the hell does he think that the Tories need to win 50 Labour marginals to get a majority? The only reason I can think of is that they would need to lose 40 seats to the LibDems/SNP. That seems way too high.
He says later in the thread that is needed for a healthy working majority and not a single-figures unstable one.
Can't help feeling that there has been a bit of an overreaction here but am I brave enough to sell Tory seats at 338? Nope. Selling Lib Dems at 36 looks a better bet (although I full accept that the logic of that is that I probably should be buying Tories at 344).
I am still struggling to come to terms with how Labour are doing. And I speak as someone who watched the results in Scotland in 2015 in disbelief. Will we see something similar in swathes of England outside the cities? Surely stop the (evil) Tory rallying cry has not lost all resonance?
Worth remembering that the 1983 floor for Labour in England and Wales was 168 seats - very close to the Tories tally in 1997. This would not be unprecedented.
The unprecedented result for Labour, the perfect storm, the 2015-style wipeout, would be the one that sent them below 150 seats. The Liberal Democrats have to do a bit better before that's on the cards.
Am feeling more confident than before that the Lib Dems aren't going to make major progress in this election. They've very few ultra-marginal targets available, and not that many more that seem likely to fall on outsized swings in deep Remain areas.
Everything therefore depends now on Labour's ability to get out the vote. Theresa May nearly won in 2017 with about a 2.5% lead; if Labour can't win back enough support to close the gap to something very close to that, then the Tories are home and hosed. It's then just a matter of the size of the majority.
Personally, I've not changed my mind about this election being a close one, but I think the probability of the Cons just making it over the finishing line has increased.
Still an awfully long way to go though.
It's looking like Swinson's Revoke policy was a miscalculation. They were already ahead of Labour on trust when it comes to Brexit and didn't need to differentiate further.
Wait till the final week then a CON majority equals certain Brexit.
Good point. I think this campaign could potentially see unusually large late swings.
I suppose the BP campaign literature in the other seats won’t go after the Tories and will instead just target Labour Leavers . In which case they’d hope to see the Tories come through the middle by taking those Labour Leavers .
I think the problem for Boris is that he can only keep hold of theCon-LD switchers if his majority looks in doubt. If he's looking comfortable, it's harderto play on the fear of Cirbyn as PM. Thus, perhaps the next moveis a swing back to Lab and LD. Before a swing back again. The result of the election will depend upin where in this oscillation we end up!
That's a phenomenon we've seen before (when it was Gordon) - used to be called Palmer's paradox, that if people are wary of you but dislike your opponents, you need to seem to be doing badly in order to do well.
Am feeling more confident than before that the Lib Dems aren't going to make major progress in this election. They've very few ultra-marginal targets available, and not that many more that seem likely to fall on outsized swings in deep Remain areas.
Everything therefore depends now on Labour's ability to get out the vote. Theresa May nearly won in 2017 with about a 2.5% lead; if Labour can't win back enough support to close the gap to something very close to that, then the Tories are home and hosed. It's then just a matter of the size of the majority.
Personally, I've not changed my mind about this election being a close one, but I think the probability of the Cons just making it over the finishing line has increased.
Still an awfully long way to go though.
Interestingly, I'm beginning to shift the other way. I'm thinking my initial forecast of 21 seats (+9) is a bit skinny, in the context of (a) the libdems holding on at 16% in almost every poll, and (b) them being able to paint the Tories as Farage No Dealers in the South East and London. (I don't think the libdems ever had any chance in the South West, which is where the Brexit Party standing down will have the biggest effect.)
But that depends critically on Tory LD soft remain waverers believing that installing extra Lib Dems won't lead to a Corbyn Government. Boris has the Deal to offer as insurance against No Deal. Swinson only has her word as insurance against Corbyn. And the LD position in this respect is easily debunked
Simple maths on the basis of if BXP standing makes it harder in marginals. Which is greater, Tories that will vote BXP or Labour leavers who would not countenance a blue vote but will vote BXP? If the latter then it's a net positive for Boris, if the former then job becomes harder
Its Remainers that want to keep us in the company of parties like Vox. Tories are trying to get us away from them.
It’s people like you who want us to be more closely aligned with the joys of the US Republican Party
No I don't. I want us to be an independent country on the global stage not aligned with anybody overseas.
If I was an American I'd vote Democrat unless they choose someone crazy like Warren or Sanders in which case I'd probably vote Libertarian. I don't like anything to do with the modern GOP - the GOP I could like was the party of Reagan not Trump.
Yes but we’re too small and weak to compete on the global stage. We are going to be surrounded on all sides by a growing superpower while we decline even further into irrelevance. All we can do is accept scraps of the Yanks table.
What superpower? We're not surrounded by either USA [the worlds only current superpower] or China [the worlds next superpower].
We are quite big and agile enough to compete on the global stage.
We will be surrounded on all sides by the EU which is an incipient superpower. Europe is growing, the U.K. is dying. Harking back to our ties with places like Australia is like an pasty, terminally ill ex-boyfriend looking to get back with the ex he dumped when she has happily moved on to to bronzed Pacific hunks.
LMAO! You think Europe is a superpower?
Europe had superpowers until WWII, the idea of Europe as a power died decades ago. Europe is dying, European share of population, power and global GDP is in a complete downward trend.
Riiiightttt . . . so in 2 posts you've gone from us being "surrounded by a superpower" to "Europe could potentially be a superpower, there's arguments for and against". Funnily enough more arguments against and most of the arguments for preceded Brexit.
Not that it matters. I'd rather be a successful independent nation than part of a superpower we don't need to be a part of. I'd rather be Canadian than American, I'd rather be English than European.
That's wrong. Just by the absence of a BXP candidate the Conservatives are going to lose significantly fewer of their existing seats now. So they will also need to win fewer of those 50 Labour held seats than they needed to before. A net gain of around 10 seats for Johnson should be enough.
And that's before considering the impact of this announcement in reducing the BXP national opinion poll share (to say <5% henceforth?). The BXP will have difficulty convincing Leave voters that they are a contender even in the seats they are standing in.
If the Conservatives do get a majority then they will be in the grip of the ERG when the real Brexit negotiations start for life after the transition period.
As May with a Conservative/DUP majority couldn't get a deal through because of the ERG don't be sure that Boris will be able to either.
And think they will stand down in some of those as well.
Why the hell does he think that the Tories need to win 50 Labour marginals to get a majority? The only reason I can think of is that they would need to lose 40 seats to the LibDems/SNP. That seems way too high.
I think he is underestimating the benefit of replacing people like Letwin, Grieve, Clarke, Stewart, Hammond etc with people who will actually vote for government policy. There will be a series of wins for Boris on the night that are not official gains.
I was just going to say that we need an @AndyJS to crunch the constituencies.
The above supports my view but has evidently been arrived at with more than (my) gut feel.
I get the impression that Farage has been under enormous internal party pressure to not let Corbyn in and have Brexit cancelled. This is a big newsworthy moment that lets him say he is doing that, taking pressure off his back, while maintaining significant leverage to negotiate further.
That said, I think it still helps the Tories a fair bit. Brexit party voters are about two thirds Tory and one third Labour. Let us make the (oversimplified but mainly accurate) view that the Tories are mainly hard right rural reactionaries and the Labour types are WWC Leave anti-Tories. I would imagine the first group mainly exist either in safe Tory seats or in Tory-Lib Dem marginals, which are currently mainly held by the Tories and were in danger of being lost to the Swinson surge. Farage has helped a lot there. The second group mainly exist innTory-Labour marginals, where the ones that matter are Labour held, and the BXP still standing slightly helps the Tories.
Of course this is just my loose analysis and I would like to see the PB Boffins crunch the numbers.
If the Conservatives do get a majority then they will be in the grip of the ERG when the real Brexit negotiations start for life after the transition period.
As May with a Conservative/DUP majority couldn't get a deal through because of the ERG don't be sure that Boris will be able to either.
A majority of 10-20 yes. A majority of 65+ probably not.
Its Remainers that want to keep us in the company of parties like Vox. Tories are trying to get us away from them.
It’s people like you who want us to be more closely aligned with the joys of the US Republican Party
No I don't. I want us to be an independent country on the global stage not aligned with anybody overseas.
If I was an American I'd vote Democrat unless they choose someone crazy like Warren or Sanders in which case I'd probably vote Libertarian. I don't like anything to do with the modern GOP - the GOP I could like was the party of Reagan not Trump.
Yes but we’re too small and weak to compete on the global stage. We are going to be surrounded on all sides by a growing superpower while we decline even further into irrelevance. All we can do is accept scraps of the Yanks table.
What superpower? We're not surrounded by either USA [the worlds only current superpower] or China [the worlds next superpower].
We are quite big and agile enough to compete on the global stage.
We will be surrounded on all sides by the EU which is an incipient superpower. Europe is growing, the U.K. is dying. Harking back to our ties with places like Australia is like an pasty, terminally ill ex-boyfriend looking to get back with the ex he dumped when she has happily moved on to to bronzed Pacific hunks.
The UK's population is in fact, rising. It's economic growth rate is much of a muchness to that of the EU.
Interesting. I was in the gym as the announcement came across. Weekdays in the gym is hoards of the retired.......and their response was unexpected. The nailed on Conservative supporters were appalled and questioning whether they could vote for a party backed by Farage. I am sure this will help the Conservatives in straight Labour/Conservative brexit supporting seats. Here in Guildford it seems to be having the opposite effect, which could be typical of southern remain seats where the Conservatives (other than their officers) despise brexit.
And think they will stand down in some of those as well.
Why the hell does he think that the Tories need to win 50 Labour marginals to get a majority? The only reason I can think of is that they would need to lose 40 seats to the LibDems/SNP. That seems way too high.
I think he is underestimating the benefit of replacing people like Letwin, Grieve, Clarke, Stewart, Hammond etc with people who will actually vote for government policy. There will be a series of wins for Boris on the night that are not official gains.
Who on earth is going to rebel in the new Tory post 2019 party ? There's one likely rebel in the entire HoC on Brexit now - and that's Caroline Flint (Who if the Tories defeat they'll have a majority anyway)
Of course Farages statements about not allowing a HP etc will be a soft signal to a number of BXP supporters to switch to the Tories even where they stand. Not in huge numbers but in those tight marginals perhaps enough. The politically detached who want to leave but are not keen politics watchers just heard, for perhaps the first time, the leader of the BXP say a vote for me may bugger Brexit. That will clearly move some votes.
I don't have an hour and a half to waste watching a video from a decade ago that is quite clearly ludicrous now.
A decade ago China was less powerful than now and Europe was more powerful than now having not lost the United Kingdom. Oops!
The essence is that in a world of positive-sum rather than zero-sum conflict, powers that are able to set the terms of multilateral deals are the ones with the ability to project their influence, and when you put it like that, it's obvious that the EU is a nascent superpower.
I don't have an hour and a half to waste watching a video from a decade ago that is quite clearly ludicrous now.
A decade ago China was less powerful than now and Europe was more powerful than now having not lost the United Kingdom. Oops!
The essence is that in a world of positive-sum rather than zero-sum conflict, powers that are able to set the terms of multilateral deals are the ones with the ability to project their influence, and when you put it like that, it's obvious that the EU is a nascent superpower.
The EU wasn't even able to convince its own most powerful military nation and on many projection the future largest economy in Europe to remain in the union.
When you put it like that it's obvious that the EU is not a nascent superpower let alone as that video is headlined more of a superpower than China!
The way to respond to BXP standing down is to stand down where libdems can win not to rant on about a Trump-Thatcher conspiracy. Why is he so useless?"
I think that there is a rule of some sort in the Labour constitution that they have to compete in every constituency. Can anyone confirm?
Interesting. I was in the gym as the announcement came across. Weekdays in the gym is hoards of the retired.......and their response was unexpected. The nailed on Conservative supporters were appalled and questioning whether they could vote for a party backed by Farage. I am sure this will help the Conservatives in straight Labour/Conservative brexit supporting seats. Here in Guildford it seems to be having the opposite effect, which could be typical of southern remain seats where the Conservatives (other than their officers) despise brexit.
Lol did you canvass them on their voting intention while they were on the cross trainer before or after the whole gym stopped to watch the big announcement and began to reveal their innermost thoughts on its implications?
I don't have an hour and a half to waste watching a video from a decade ago that is quite clearly ludicrous now.
A decade ago China was less powerful than now and Europe was more powerful than now having not lost the United Kingdom. Oops!
The essence is that in a world of positive-sum rather than zero-sum conflict, powers that are able to set the terms of multilateral deals are the ones with the ability to project their influence, and when you put it like that, it's obvious that the EU is a nascent superpower.
The EU wasn't even able to convince its own most powerful military nation to remain in the union.
When you put it like that it's obvious that the EU is not a nascent superpower let alone as that video is headlined more of a superpower than China!
It was able to coerce the so-called most powerful military nation into agreeing to an internal customs border.
The way to respond to BXP standing down is to stand down where libdems can win not to rant on about a Trump-Thatcher conspiracy. Why is he so useless?"
I think that there is a rule of some sort in the Labour constitution that they have to compete in every constituency. Can anyone confirm?
And think they will stand down in some of those as well.
Why the hell does he think that the Tories need to win 50 Labour marginals to get a majority? The only reason I can think of is that they would need to lose 40 seats to the LibDems/SNP. That seems way too high.
I think he is underestimating the benefit of replacing people like Letwin, Grieve, Clarke, Stewart, Hammond etc with people who will actually vote for government policy. There will be a series of wins for Boris on the night that are not official gains.
Who on earth is going to rebel in the new Tory post 2019 party ? There's one likely rebel in the entire HoC on Brexit now - and that's Caroline Flint (Who if the Tories defeat they'll have a majority anyway)
322 seats is enough to 'get Brexit done'.
That's my view. And when you add in those not standing again and those who are independents, Tiggers or Lib Dems you have the most united and coherent Tory party that we have seen for a very long time, for good or for ill. Boris may eventually have problems with the ERG as we come near to the end of the transition but right now there is no question what needs to be done and how it is to be done.
And think they will stand down in some of those as well.
Why the hell does he think that the Tories need to win 50 Labour marginals to get a majority? The only reason I can think of is that they would need to lose 40 seats to the LibDems/SNP. That seems way too high.
I think he is underestimating the benefit of replacing people like Letwin, Grieve, Clarke, Stewart, Hammond etc with people who will actually vote for government policy. There will be a series of wins for Boris on the night that are not official gains.
Who on earth is going to rebel in the new Tory post 2019 party ? There's one likely rebel in the entire HoC on Brexit now - and that's Caroline Flint (Who if the Tories defeat they'll have a majority anyway)
322 seats is enough to 'get Brexit done'.
There are a few Tory posters in here who should stand as Conservative PPC's. They will loyally vote for anything that the Glorious Leader wants....
WRT Lib Dem prospects, Richmond Park, Cheltenham, Sheffield Hallam, and South Cambs. must be more or less nailed on. That takes them up to 16.
I expect that St. Ives will be a Tory hold, and Totnes will be lost. NE Fife should be gained, on the back of Unionist tactical voting. St. Alban's looks a likely win (but I'm always cautious about calling that seat). Cambridge should be a win, and there will probably be a shock result or two in the London Stockbroker Belt. Hornsey & Wood Green, Hampstead & Kilburn, and other affluent Remain seats in London must be good prospects. All in all, I'd expect them to be on about two dozen seats.
What's this drop in LAB poll shares Mike's taking about?
That's actually a very good point. They may be softening on the betting markets but their VI numbers are getting better, even if not quite as quickly as I'd initially feared.
Although there's still plenty of time left for things to go horribly wrong, of course.
But i'm happy because his idyocy means Tories will win more seats.
You might as well say Swinson is an idiot not to stand down candidates in seats where Labour could win, or to have said she wouldn't support Corbyn as PM, even as an emergency interim measure to avoid No Deal.
Why should Labour try to help the Lib Dems if there's no quid pro quo?
Its Remainers that want to keep us in the company of parties like Vox. Tories are trying to get us away from them.
It’s people like you who want us to be more closely aligned with the joys of the US Republican Party
No I don't. I want us to be an independent country on the global stage not aligned with anybody overseas.
If I was an American I'd vote Democrat unless they choose someone crazy like Warren or Sanders in which case I'd probably vote Libertarian. I don't like anything to do with the modern GOP - the GOP I could like was the party of Reagan not Trump.
Yes but we’re too small and weak to compete on the global stage. We are going to be surrounded on all sides by a growing superpower while we decline even further into irrelevance. All we can do is accept scraps of the Yanks table.
What superpower? We're not surrounded by either USA [the worlds only current superpower] or China [the worlds next superpower].
We are quite big and agile enough to compete on the global stage.
We will be surrounded on all sides by the EU which is an incipient superpower. Europe is growing, the U.K. is dying. Harking back to our ties with places like Australia is like an pasty, terminally ill ex-boyfriend looking to get back with the ex he dumped when she has happily moved on to to bronzed Pacific hunks.
The US is already a superpower, China is becoming one via economic growth, urbanisation, etc. Where's the EU's growth coming from to take them "incipient" to "actual"?
Note: your answer must not include the word "Turkey".
And think they will stand down in some of those as well.
Why the hell does he think that the Tories need to win 50 Labour marginals to get a majority? The only reason I can think of is that they would need to lose 40 seats to the LibDems/SNP. That seems way too high.
I think he is underestimating the benefit of replacing people like Letwin, Grieve, Clarke, Stewart, Hammond etc with people who will actually vote for government policy. There will be a series of wins for Boris on the night that are not official gains.
Fair point in terms of the arithmetic.
Nonetheless, as a (former) Labour member and activist from 1979 to 2018, whose recollection of Letwin, Grieve, Clarke and Hammond etc goes back much further than their role in the recent Brexit-related shambles, I am struggling to come to terms with how getting rid of them can in any way be seen as a "win for the right".
Hammond. The Chancellor who continued the benefit freeze from 2016 to 2019. Now thought of as an ally by many claiming to be on the left. It should be shadenfreude and good riddance.
DavidL said: "That's my view. And when you add in those not standing again and those who are independents, Tiggers or Lib Dems you have the most united and coherent Tory party that we have seen for a very long time, for good or for ill. Boris may eventually have problems with the ERG as we come near to the end of the transition but right now there is no question what needs to be done and how it is to be done."
A really long shot this - but Betfair Exchange has 33/1 on Brexit happening in 2019. Possible?
But i'm happy because his idyocy means Tories will win more seats.
You might as well say Swinson is an idiot not to stand down candidates in seats where Labour could win, or to have said she wouldn't support Corbyn as PM, even as an emergency interim measure to avoid No Deal.
Why should Labour try to help the Lib Dems if there's no quid pro quo?
I'm sure the quid pro quo will be more standing but without any effort placed in campaigning - that's what I expect things around here to be like.
Comments
MarqueeMark will be pleased.
Yes, I agree - I`ve just sold LibDem seats on Betfair over under at 25.5 @ 4.3 and also backed LibDem vote % at 10 - 14.99% at 4.1
Whoever said we'd become a leper colony somewhere in the North Atlantic wasn't joking.
I dearly want Gyimah to fail.
But I really couldn't ever see them standing if it in any way gave Dr. Sarah Wollaston an improved chance of staying an MP. Her actions really have fired up Brexiteers. Along with Grieve and Soubry, she really fires up the gammon blood pressure. And although Totnes itself might be Wollaston-vegan, there's a lot of Tory gammon in the rest of the constituency.....)
I've missed about 24 hours of news due to football and work. Seems things have moved at quite a pace!
https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=fa7nSzCiGXk
https://twitter.com/BethRigby/status/1193883346646052865
We are quite big and agile enough to compete on the global stage.
Not saying it will happen, but who knows?
In theory, BXP could stand in every other seat though it seems some other seats aren't going to be contested.
Having bought Conservative seats at 325 I'm not too bothered from a punting angle but presumably BXP aren't folding up - they will be looking at the negotiations for the future trade and political arrangements for the EU and seeing if we can crash out to WTO on 31/12/20 rather than 31/10/19. Boris Johnson refuses to discount that possibility of course.
Please PBers - any other constituency tips you want to share in light of the news??
Who can blame them, when Lab hasn't got a frigging clue what its policy is.
That is a massive change to a few weeks ago where he was giving it that only real brexit is via BXP.
No - good point - but I saw that % range as value anyway. I think LDs will perform worse than many expect in this election.
Everything therefore depends now on Labour's ability to get out the vote. Theresa May nearly won in 2017 with about a 2.5% lead; if Labour can't win back enough support to close the gap to something very close to that, then the Tories are home and hosed. It's then just a matter of the size of the majority.
Personally, I've not changed my mind about this election being a close one, but I think the probability of the Cons just making it over the finishing line has increased.
Still an awfully long way to go though.
We've already seen with the Workington poll that the Tories are capable of making gains with or without BXP standing.
I am still struggling to come to terms with how Labour are doing. And I speak as someone who watched the results in Scotland in 2015 in disbelief. Will we see something similar in swathes of England outside the cities? Surely stop the (evil) Tory rallying cry has not lost all resonance?
https://mobile.twitter.com/chrishanretty/status/1193884851776184320
The above supports my view but has evidently been arrived at with more than (my) gut feel.
Europe had superpowers until WWII, the idea of Europe as a power died decades ago. Europe is dying, European share of population, power and global GDP is in a complete downward trend.
I think it's to do with the memory of Election 2017 and I explore it in my forthcoming piece.
BXP will be squeezed further in these seats but the problem we have now is if they only stand in 300 seats we can read even less in how they might effect the election from National Polling as many people will say they vote BXP when they don't have that choice.
I think the Tories can win the election with 20-30 gains from Labour. But I'm not at all sure they've that many gains in them.
My hunch is that the Lib Dem vote will be flakier than many believe, but the Labour vote will be much stickier.
But certain sections of the media are definitely indulging in this too.
https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Potential_superpowers
Not a normal definition.
https://twitter.com/Arron_banks/status/1193880701977989120?s=20
The unprecedented result for Labour, the perfect storm, the 2015-style wipeout, would be the one that sent them below 150 seats. The Liberal Democrats have to do a bit better before that's on the cards.
https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=dezv7X1VLOA
Which is greater, Tories that will vote BXP or Labour leavers who would not countenance a blue vote but will vote BXP? If the latter then it's a net positive for Boris, if the former then job becomes harder
Not that it matters. I'd rather be a successful independent nation than part of a superpower we don't need to be a part of. I'd rather be Canadian than American, I'd rather be English than European.
And that's before considering the impact of this announcement in reducing the BXP national opinion poll share (to say <5% henceforth?). The BXP will have difficulty convincing Leave voters that they are a contender even in the seats they are standing in.
As May with a Conservative/DUP majority couldn't get a deal through because of the ERG don't be sure that Boris will be able to either.
That said, I think it still helps the Tories a fair bit. Brexit party voters are about two thirds Tory and one third Labour. Let us make the (oversimplified but mainly accurate) view that the Tories are mainly hard right rural reactionaries and the Labour types are WWC Leave anti-Tories. I would imagine the first group mainly exist either in safe Tory seats or in Tory-Lib Dem marginals, which are currently mainly held by the Tories and were in danger of being lost to the Swinson surge. Farage has helped a lot there. The second group mainly exist innTory-Labour marginals, where the ones that matter are Labour held, and the BXP still standing slightly helps the Tories.
Of course this is just my loose analysis and I would like to see the PB Boffins crunch the numbers.
A decade ago China was less powerful than now and Europe was more powerful than now having not lost the United Kingdom. Oops!
322 seats is enough to 'get Brexit done'.
The way to respond to BXP standing down is to stand down where libdems can win not to rant on about a Trump-Thatcher conspiracy. Why is he so useless?
https://mobile.twitter.com/jeremycorbyn/status/1193888404343275521
But i'm happy because his idyocy means Tories will win more seats.
When you put it like that it's obvious that the EU is not a nascent superpower let alone as that video is headlined more of a superpower than China!
The way to respond to BXP standing down is to stand down where libdems can win not to rant on about a Trump-Thatcher conspiracy. Why is he so useless?"
I think that there is a rule of some sort in the Labour constitution that they have to compete in every constituency. Can anyone confirm?
I expect that St. Ives will be a Tory hold, and Totnes will be lost. NE Fife should be gained, on the back of Unionist tactical voting. St. Alban's looks a likely win (but I'm always cautious about calling that seat). Cambridge should be a win, and there will probably be a shock result or two in the London Stockbroker Belt. Hornsey & Wood Green, Hampstead & Kilburn, and other affluent Remain seats in London must be good prospects. All in all, I'd expect them to be on about two dozen seats.
https://twitter.com/britainelects/status/1193890952827539456
Looking at it I'm struggling to work out where that Brexit vote is coming from unless the Lib Dem vote is from the Tory switches..
Although there's still plenty of time left for things to go horribly wrong, of course.
Why should Labour try to help the Lib Dems if there's no quid pro quo?
Note: your answer must not include the word "Turkey".
Nonetheless, as a (former) Labour member and activist from 1979 to 2018, whose recollection of Letwin, Grieve, Clarke and Hammond etc goes back much further than their role in the recent Brexit-related shambles, I am struggling to come to terms with how getting rid of them can in any way be seen as a "win for the right".
Hammond. The Chancellor who continued the benefit freeze from 2016 to 2019. Now thought of as an ally by many claiming to be on the left. It should be shadenfreude and good riddance.
A really long shot this - but Betfair Exchange has 33/1 on Brexit happening in 2019. Possible?