Isn't there a new set of EU financial regulations which come into effect on Jan 1st and are supposed to be 'detrimental' to some prominent people in UK?
No - it’s been debunked multiple times. It’s a myth propagated by people who want to demonise Brexiteers as shady international financiers. I wonder what they are implying/assuming?
That Brexiteers are shady international financiers, at a guess.
Hannan's piece reads quite reasonable to me, except for the fact that Remainer May being in power dragged out the period of shock at Brexit until she was replaced. As soon as we had a Leaver as PM terms were indeed easily enough.
You really mean "as soon as we had a PM prepared to bend any law, sideline Parliament and break up the UK, terms were agreed easily enough"?
I was busy yesterday, but as I recall from Friday, terms are not agreed...
Though we will probably Brexit, I think it unlikely to be a grateful demos afterwards. This survey in the Observer is an interesting one. Even amongst Leavers there is a substantial minority who wished the whole business of the referendum had never happened.
Hannan's piece reads quite reasonable to me, except for the fact that Remainer May being in power dragged out the period of shock at Brexit until she was replaced. As soon as we had a Leaver as PM terms were indeed easily enough.
Er... When are you expecting Denmark, Ireland and the Netherlands to follow us out of the EU?
The piece was written from the future which hasn't happened yet.
I'm not expecting anyone to immediately follow us out but I do think many are watching to see how Brexit goes. Right now, especially due to the self-inflicted dragging us down inflicted by Remainer May and Remainer MPs in Parliament Brexit looks like it might be more hassle than its worth but once we are out and Project Fear is shown to be the BS it always was then a smooth Brexit can fuel Euroscepticism in a good way. People should be in the EU because its what they want not because they're afraid there's no alternative.
I don't expect Ireland to follow us out, and probably not the Netherlands either - but I think Denmark and Sweden certainly might.
The EU will confirm extension to 31st January on tuesday, not least because it was Parliaments request. Also the joint letter from the Lib Dems and SNP to the EU formally asking for this date to hold a GE provides the EU with the reason they have been demanding
The Lib dem - SNP amendment to the FTPA is put forward and according to Sophy Ridge all the opposition parties now support it including the DUP
Labour try to amend it for 16s, but as stated in the media, it is impossible to do so before Christmas, so their amendment falls and the election is confirmed
Between the election Boris features as host of the NATO conference in London
The GE sees gains for the Conservatives, SNP and Lib Dems and labour suffering loses from all sides
The GE may give Boris a majority, but equally it may not giving the Lib Dems a golden opportunity of demanding a referendum in a remain dominated HOC
Labour are in a crisis that sees the end of the Corbyn era
Hannan's piece reads quite reasonable to me, except for the fact that Remainer May being in power dragged out the period of shock at Brexit until she was replaced. As soon as we had a Leaver as PM terms were indeed easily enough.
You really mean "as soon as we had a PM prepared to bend any law, sideline Parliament and break up the UK, terms were agreed easily enough"?
I was busy yesterday, but as I recall from Friday, terms are not agreed...
Yes indeed, but sadly, it seems likely that the Brexiteers will get their way and all of us will have to live with the consequences of their obsession.
The wilting flower theory that people won't vote cos it's parky out, is bullshit.
It will definitely make a difference at the margins, but since an election wouldn't happen in winter unless there was an important reason for it then there will be other effects that will increase turnout. I'd expect the latter effects to be stronger than the former.
We Remainers have a "Powerful backer"?? No one told me.
I wonder who it is?
The establishment.
Whether it be the courts, MPs, the speaker, the media, the rich etc all want to block Brexit
"...the rich etc all want to block Brexit"
Arron Banks, James Dyson, Tim Martin, Peter Hargreaves, Jeremy Hosking, Lord Edmiston, Crispin Odey, Lord Bamford, the Barclay brothers, Viscount Rothermere, Jacob Rees-Mogg and many, many others beg to differ.
The wilting flower theory that people won't vote cos it's parky out, is bullshit.
It will definitely make a difference at the margins, but since an election wouldn't happen in winter unless there was an important reason for it then there will be other effects that will increase turnout. I'd expect the latter effects to be stronger than the former.
We Remainers have a "Powerful backer"?? No one told me.
I wonder who it is?
The establishment.
Whether it be the courts, MPs, the speaker, the media, the rich etc all want to block Brexit
Are these the same MPs who just voted for Brexit before the dastardly remain leaning PM stalled it? And dont get me started on those lefty remainiac media outlets like the Express, Mail, Sun and Telegraph! Or the rich like Dyson, Banks, Rees Mogg, Martin, why cant they support a proper Brexit!
The EU will confirm extension to 31st January on tuesday, not least because it was Parliaments request. Also the joint letter from the Lib Dems and SNP to the EU formally asking for this date to hold a GE provides the EU with the reason they have been demanding
The Lib dem - SNP amendment to the FTPA is put forward and according to Sophy Ridge all the opposition parties now support it including the DUP
Labour try to amend it for 16s, but as stated in the media, it is impossible to do so before Christmas, so their amendment falls and the election is confirmed
Between the election Boris features as host of the NATO conference in London
The GE sees gains for the Conservatives, SNP and Lib Dems and labour suffering loses from all sides
The GE may give Boris a majority, but equally it may not giving the Lib Dems a golden opportunity of demanding a referendum in a remain dominated HOC
Labour are in a crisis that sees the end of the Corbyn era
And - I think that will do for now
All these thing could come to pass. It's as good a prediction as any but there are so many alternatives.
The EU will confirm extension to 31st January on tuesday, not least because it was Parliaments request. Also the joint letter from the Lib Dems and SNP to the EU formally asking for this date to hold a GE provides the EU with the reason they have been demanding
The Lib dem - SNP amendment to the FTPA is put forward and according to Sophy Ridge all the opposition parties now support it including the DUP
Labour try to amend it for 16s, but as stated in the media, it is impossible to do so before Christmas, so their amendment falls and the election is confirmed
Between the election Boris features as host of the NATO conference in London
The GE sees gains for the Conservatives, SNP and Lib Dems and labour suffering loses from all sides
The GE may give Boris a majority, but equally it may not giving the Lib Dems a golden opportunity of demanding a referendum in a remain dominated HOC
Labour are in a crisis that sees the end of the Corbyn era
And - I think that will do for now
Sorry, that wasn't written in quatrains like Nostradamus, so we can't take it seriously.
Though we will probably Brexit, I think it unlikely to be a grateful demos afterwards. This survey in the Observer is an interesting one. Even amongst Leavers there is a substantial minority who wished the whole business of the referendum had never happened.
Hannan's piece reads quite reasonable to me, except for the fact that Remainer May being in power dragged out the period of shock at Brexit until she was replaced. As soon as we had a Leaver as PM terms were indeed easily enough.
Er... When are you expecting Denmark, Ireland and the Netherlands to follow us out of the EU?
Though we will probably Brexit, I think it unlikely to be a grateful demos afterwards. This survey in the Observer is an interesting one. Even amongst Leavers there is a substantial minority who wished the whole business of the referendum had never happened.
Hannan's piece reads quite reasonable to me, except for the fact that Remainer May being in power dragged out the period of shock at Brexit until she was replaced. As soon as we had a Leaver as PM terms were indeed easily enough.
Er... When are you expecting Denmark, Ireland and the Netherlands to follow us out of the EU?
The piece was written from the future which hasn't happened yet.
I'm not expecting anyone to immediately follow us out but I do think many are watching to see how Brexit goes. Right now, especially due to the self-inflicted dragging us down inflicted by Remainer May and Remainer MPs in Parliament Brexit looks like it might be more hassle than its worth but once we are out and Project Fear is shown to be the BS it always was then a smooth Brexit can fuel Euroscepticism in a good way. People should be in the EU because its what they want not because they're afraid there's no alternative.
I don't expect Ireland to follow us out, and probably not the Netherlands either - but I think Denmark and Sweden certainly might.
The EU will confirm extension to 31st January on tuesday, not least because it was Parliaments request. Also the joint letter from the Lib Dems and SNP to the EU formally asking for this date to hold a GE provides the EU with the reason they have been demanding
The Lib dem - SNP amendment to the FTPA is put forward and according to Sophy Ridge all the opposition parties now support it including the DUP
Labour try to amend it for 16s, but as stated in the media, it is impossible to do so before Christmas, so their amendment falls and the election is confirmed
Between the election Boris features as host of the NATO conference in London
The GE sees gains for the Conservatives, SNP and Lib Dems and labour suffering loses from all sides
The GE may give Boris a majority, but equally it may not giving the Lib Dems a golden opportunity of demanding a referendum in a remain dominated HOC
Labour are in a crisis that sees the end of the Corbyn era
And - I think that will do for now
All these thing could come to pass. It's as good a prediction as any but thwere are so many alternatives.
Indeed, but they are only my musings and others are on offer
Though we will probably Brexit, I think it unlikely to be a grateful demos afterwards. This survey in the Observer is an interesting one. Even amongst Leavers there is a substantial minority who wished the whole business of the referendum had never happened.
Hannan's piece reads quite reasonable to me, except for the fact that Remainer May being in power dragged out the period of shock at Brexit until she was replaced. As soon as we had a Leaver as PM terms were indeed easily enough.
Er... When are you expecting Denmark, Ireland and the Netherlands to follow us out of the EU?
Hannan is a fruitcake
Of course. But @Philip_Thompson (for all I disagree with him) is usually more reasoned in his thinking.
The wilting flower theory that people won't vote cos it's parky out, is bullshit.
It will definitely make a difference at the margins, but since an election wouldn't happen in winter unless there was an important reason for it then there will be other effects that will increase turnout. I'd expect the latter effects to be stronger than the former.
See above - I now think we should be considering the danger of severe weather of "Do not travel unless your journey is essential" levels decimating turnout.
The EU will confirm extension to 31st January on tuesday, not least because it was Parliaments request. Also the joint letter from the Lib Dems and SNP to the EU formally asking for this date to hold a GE provides the EU with the reason they have been demanding
The Lib dem - SNP amendment to the FTPA is put forward and according to Sophy Ridge all the opposition parties now support it including the DUP
Labour try to amend it for 16s, but as stated in the media, it is impossible to do so before Christmas, so their amendment falls and the election is confirmed
Between the election Boris features as host of the NATO conference in London
The GE sees gains for the Conservatives, SNP and Lib Dems and labour suffering loses from all sides
The GE may give Boris a majority, but equally it may not giving the Lib Dems a golden opportunity of demanding a referendum in a remain dominated HOC
Labour are in a crisis that sees the end of the Corbyn era
And - I think that will do for now
Sorry, that wasn't written in quatrains like Nostradamus, so we can't take it seriously.
Way above my simple understanding and lack of knowledge of latin
The wilting flower theory that people won't vote cos it's parky out, is bullshit.
It will definitely make a difference at the margins, but since an election wouldn't happen in winter unless there was an important reason for it then there will be other effects that will increase turnout. I'd expect the latter effects to be stronger than the former.
See above - I now think we should be considering the danger of severe weather of "Do not travel unless your journey is essential" levels decimating turnout.
Now that really would be funny... election abandoned due to blizzards. 😂
Though we will probably Brexit, I think it unlikely to be a grateful demos afterwards. This survey in the Observer is an interesting one. Even amongst Leavers there is a substantial minority who wished the whole business of the referendum had never happened.
Hannan's piece reads quite reasonable to me, except for the fact that Remainer May being in power dragged out the period of shock at Brexit until she was replaced. As soon as we had a Leaver as PM terms were indeed easily enough.
Er... When are you expecting Denmark, Ireland and the Netherlands to follow us out of the EU?
Hannan is a fruitcake
Of course. But @Philip_Thompson (for all I disagree with him) is usually more reasoned in his thinking.
Yes he is but he does get a bit carried away at times.
No - it’s been debunked multiple times. It’s a myth propagated by people who want to demonise Brexiteers as shady international financiers. I wonder what they are implying/assuming?
The tried & tested 'racists' formulation probably works here -
Most Leavers are not shady international financiers.
But almost all shady international financiers are Leavers.
The wilting flower theory that people won't vote cos it's parky out, is bullshit.
It will definitely make a difference at the margins, but since an election wouldn't happen in winter unless there was an important reason for it then there will be other effects that will increase turnout. I'd expect the latter effects to be stronger than the former.
See above - I now think we should be considering the danger of severe weather of "Do not travel unless your journey is essential" levels decimating turnout.
Now that really would be funny... election abandoned due to blizzards. 😂
I'm a big Harry Turtledove fan. Could we not adopt his scenario from the World War series and have the Election abandoned due to Lizards?
We Remainers have a "Powerful backer"?? No one told me.
I wonder who it is?
Gary Lineker perhaps?
Who?
He is a very powerful and rich man who the BBC regularly allow on their shows! Apparently lived in Barcelona for a bit so may have been recruited by the EU then to go deep undercover?
The wilting flower theory that people won't vote cos it's parky out, is bullshit.
It will definitely make a difference at the margins, but since an election wouldn't happen in winter unless there was an important reason for it then there will be other effects that will increase turnout. I'd expect the latter effects to be stronger than the former.
See above - I now think we should be considering the danger of severe weather of "Do not travel unless your journey is essential" levels decimating turnout.
Now that really would be funny... election abandoned due to blizzards. 😂
The 2001 Locals were postponed by Foot and Mouth as I recall.
Sat here at my beach front cafe having Café Cortardo and Churros for Breakfast. Was slightly surreal coming through Alicante airport wondering if that was the last time I'd be able to do so via the EU channel...
No - it’s been debunked multiple times. It’s a myth propagated by people who want to demonise Brexiteers as shady international financiers. I wonder what they are implying/assuming?
The tried & tested 'racists' formulation probably works here -
Most Leavers are not shady international financiers.
But almost all shady international financiers are Leavers.
The wilting flower theory that people won't vote cos it's parky out, is bullshit.
It will definitely make a difference at the margins, but since an election wouldn't happen in winter unless there was an important reason for it then there will be other effects that will increase turnout. I'd expect the latter effects to be stronger than the former.
See above - I now think we should be considering the danger of severe weather of "Do not travel unless your journey is essential" levels decimating turnout.
Now that really would be funny... election abandoned due to blizzards. 😂
It would certainly be interesting to hear the local therwilloftherpeople theorists on what happens next when you elect a government on an exclusively urban turnout of 22%.
Though we will probably Brexit, I think it unlikely to be a grateful demos afterwards. This survey in the Observer is an interesting one. Even amongst Leavers there is a substantial minority who wished the whole business of the referendum had never happened.
Hannan's piece reads quite reasonable to me, except for the fact that Remainer May being in power dragged out the period of shock at Brexit until she was replaced. As soon as we had a Leaver as PM terms were indeed easily enough.
Er... When are you expecting Denmark, Ireland and the Netherlands to follow us out of the EU?
The piece was written from the future which hasn't happened yet.
I'm not expecting anyone to immediately follow us out but I do think many are watching to see how Brexit goes. Right now, especially due to the self-inflicted dragging us down inflicted by Remainer May and Remainer MPs in Parliament Brexit looks like it might be more hassle than its worth but once we are out and Project Fear is shown to be the BS it always was then a smooth Brexit can fuel Euroscepticism in a good way. People should be in the EU because its what they want not because they're afraid there's no alternative.
I don't expect Ireland to follow us out, and probably not the Netherlands either - but I think Denmark and Sweden certainly might.
Pipedreams Philip!
No pipedreams. Quite frankly I couldn't care less whether Sweden [which I think is most likely] or any others follow us out. But I do think that if Sweden and others stay in it should be because they want to and not becase they're afraid of the consequences of leaving - is that an unrealistic pipedream?
The wilting flower theory that people won't vote cos it's parky out, is bullshit.
Sending a frail septuagenarian into the freezing cold of of a British December for six weeks? I know Cummings wants to win at all costs but have a heart!
It’s impossible to add that age group on by December .
Extending the franchise to 16-17 year olds should be something that the voters have a say in. If you want it, put it in your manifesto and get a majority/coalition that will implement it.
"As ever with Johnson, there are pragmatic reasons for finally letting Scotland go, which resonate with an almost frightening level of personal ambition. The departure for good of all Scottish MPs would make it almost impossible for Labour to entertain any prospect of power in the foreseeable future. This would leave him virtually unopposed as prime minister of England for a generation."
Though we will probably Brexit, I think it unlikely to be a grateful demos afterwards. This survey in the Observer is an interesting one. Even amongst Leavers there is a substantial minority who wished the whole business of the referendum had never happened.
Hannan's piece reads quite reasonable to me, except for the fact that Remainer May being in power dragged out the period of shock at Brexit until she was replaced. As soon as we had a Leaver as PM terms were indeed easily enough.
Er... When are you expecting Denmark, Ireland and the Netherlands to follow us out of the EU?
Hannan is a fruitcake
Of course. But @Philip_Thompson (for all I disagree with him) is usually more reasoned in his thinking.
Yes he is but he does get a bit carried away at times.
And he's the most repetitive poster PB has ever experienced since the late Plato discovered her fondness for Trump.
Sat here at my beach front cafe having Café Cortardo and Churros for Breakfast. Was slightly surreal coming through Alicante airport wondering if that was the last time I'd be able to do so via the EU channel...
Though we will probably Brexit, I think it unlikely to be a grateful demos afterwards. This survey in the Observer is an interesting one. Even amongst Leavers there is a substantial minority who wished the whole business of the referendum had never happened.
Hannan's piece reads quite reasonable to me, except for the fact that Remainer May being in power dragged out the period of shock at Brexit until she was replaced. As soon as we had a Leaver as PM terms were indeed easily enough.
Er... When are you expecting Denmark, Ireland and the Netherlands to follow us out of the EU?
Hannan is a fruitcake
Of course. But @Philip_Thompson (for all I disagree with him) is usually more reasoned in his thinking.
Yes he is but he does get a bit carried away at times.
And he's the most repetitive poster PB has ever experienced since the late Plato discovered her fondness for Trump.
How am I repetitive?
I just take and form my own opinions and argue them from my own principles, without sticking to any partisan line. How is that repetitive?
Hammond wants to amend to a customs union, wants a week in the HOC and two weeks in the HOL and out by the 30th November
A customs union would see Boris pull the deal and without a GE we are out with no deal on the 31st January
All this obsession with a customs union is utterly bonkers, it would be the worst of all worlds and we would be better in the EU than being used as leverage in their trade deals with others.
The only reason people are pushing it is that it's utterly unacceptable.
Sat here at my beach front cafe having Café Cortardo and Churros for Breakfast. Was slightly surreal coming through Alicante airport wondering if that was the last time I'd be able to do so via the EU channel...
I’m in Malta and picked the one week in the year when it’s raining. Boo hiss.
Though we will probably Brexit, I think it unlikely to be a grateful demos afterwards. This survey in the Observer is an interesting one. Even amongst Leavers there is a substantial minority who wished the whole business of the referendum had never happened.
Hannan's piece reads quite reasonable to me, except for the fact that Remainer May being in power dragged out the period of shock at Brexit until she was replaced. As soon as we had a Leaver as PM terms were indeed easily enough.
Er... When are you expecting Denmark, Ireland and the Netherlands to follow us out of the EU?
Hannan is a fruitcake
Of course. But @Philip_Thompson (for all I disagree with him) is usually more reasoned in his thinking.
Yes he is but he does get a bit carried away at times.
And he's the most repetitive poster PB has ever experienced since the late Plato discovered her fondness for Trump.
How am I repetitive?
I just take and form my own opinions and argue them from my own principles, without sticking to any partisan line. How is that repetitive?
Well... it is only ONE set of principles. Boris seems to have many
... Between the election Boris features as host of the NATO conference in London ...
The assumption seems to be that the NATO conference will be an opportunity for Johnson to play the statesman and look Prime Ministerial - and thus be a benefit electorally.
However, I'm not convinced it will get much coverage - with the exception of whatever Trump says. I think it's quite likely that Trump says things that can be broadly categorised as: 1. Isn't Boris great? He's great! 2. You NATO bozos need to pay the US more dough to defend you. Putin is great too! Europeans are losers! 3. The Democrats are liars and traitors! I'll impeach them, see how they like it!
Unless Johnson goes all Love Actually on Trump I don't see how that plays well for him at all. A personal endorsement from Trump, in person, in London, a week before the election? Grade A kryptonite.
The wilting flower theory that people won't vote cos it's parky out, is bullshit.
It will definitely make a difference at the margins, but since an election wouldn't happen in winter unless there was an important reason for it then there will be other effects that will increase turnout. I'd expect the latter effects to be stronger than the former.
See above - I now think we should be considering the danger of severe weather of "Do not travel unless your journey is essential" levels decimating turnout.
Now that really would be funny... election abandoned due to blizzards. 😂
I'm a big Harry Turtledove fan. Could we not adopt his scenario from the World War series and have the Election abandoned due to Lizards?
Hammond wants to amend to a customs union, wants a week in the HOC and two weeks in the HOL and out by the 30th November
A customs union would see Boris pull the deal and without a GE we are out with no deal on the 31st January
All this obsession with a customs union is utterly bonkers, it would be the worst of all worlds and we would be better in the EU than being used as leverage in their trade deals with others.
The only reason people are pushing it is that it's utterly unacceptable.
It is still Brexit, and quite viable. If the Tories pull their Deal, it is no ones fault but their own.
Most 16yr olds don't know their arse from their elbow.
We allow people with serious dementia to vote.
The best argument against 16 years old voting is simply the cut off line is arbitrary and 16 is no better or worse than 18, so the status quo should remain.
Sat here at my beach front cafe having Café Cortardo and Churros for Breakfast. Was slightly surreal coming through Alicante airport wondering if that was the last time I'd be able to do so via the EU channel...
I’m in Malta and picked the one week in the year when it’s raining. Boo hiss.
The Lascaris war rooms are worth a visit and the national museum rather good.
Though we will probably Brexit, I think it unlikely to be a grateful demos afterwards. This survey in the Observer is an interesting one. Even amongst Leavers there is a substantial minority who wished the whole business of the referendum had never happened.
Hannan's piece reads quite reasonable to me, except for the fact that Remainer May being in power dragged out the period of shock at Brexit until she was replaced. As soon as we had a Leaver as PM terms were indeed easily enough.
Er... When are you expecting Denmark, Ireland and the Netherlands to follow us out of the EU?
Hannan is a fruitcake
Of course. But @Philip_Thompson (for all I disagree with him) is usually more reasoned in his thinking.
Yes he is but he does get a bit carried away at times.
And he's the most repetitive poster PB has ever experienced since the late Plato discovered her fondness for Trump.
Though we will probably Brexit, I think it unlikely to be a grateful demos afterwards. This survey in the Observer is an interesting one. Even amongst Leavers there is a substantial minority who wished the whole business of the referendum had never happened.
Hannan's piece reads quite reasonable to me, except for the fact that Remainer May being in power dragged out the period of shock at Brexit until she was replaced. As soon as we had a Leaver as PM terms were indeed easily enough.
Er... When are you expecting Denmark, Ireland and the Netherlands to follow us out of the EU?
Hannan is a fruitcake
Of course. But @Philip_Thompson (for all I disagree with him) is usually more reasoned in his thinking.
Yes he is but he does get a bit carried away at times.
And he's the most repetitive poster PB has ever experienced since the late Plato discovered her fondness for Trump.
How am I repetitive?
I just take and form my own opinions and argue them from my own principles, without sticking to any partisan line. How is that repetitive?
By repeating those principles hundreds and hundreds of times a week.
... Between the election Boris features as host of the NATO conference in London ...
The assumption seems to be that the NATO conference will be an opportunity for Johnson to play the statesman and look Prime Ministerial - and thus be a benefit electorally.
However, I'm not convinced it will get much coverage - with the exception of whatever Trump says. I think it's quite likely that Trump says things that can be broadly categorised as: 1. Isn't Boris great? He's great! 2. You NATO bozos need to pay the US more dough to defend you. Putin is great too! Europeans are losers! 3. The Democrats are liars and traitors! I'll impeach them, see how they like it!
Unless Johnson goes all Love Actually on Trump I don't see how that plays well for him at all. A personal endorsement from Trump, in person, in London, a week before the election? Grade A kryptonite.
If it's on the day of the election it will get no TV coverage at all - and be a complete nightmare for the police to have simultaneous major events.
If it's during the campaign it will only get mentioned in passing 'This is where Boris was today, he said he looks forward to NATO being strengthened' - before moving on to 'Jeremy says NATO is an imperial construct that should be abolished'
Sat here at my beach front cafe having Café Cortardo and Churros for Breakfast. Was slightly surreal coming through Alicante airport wondering if that was the last time I'd be able to do so via the EU channel...
I’m in Malta and picked the one week in the year when it’s raining. Boo hiss.
The Lascaris war rooms are worth a visit and the national museum rather good.
Indeed yes, I’m planning to do a lot of exploring. But today as I only arrived at 4am I fancied a gentle wander around on my own. Weather seems to be putting paid to this idea.
Most 16yr olds don't know their arse from their elbow.
We allow people with serious dementia to vote.
The best argument against 16 years old voting is simply the cut off line is arbitrary and 16 is no better or worse than 18, so the status quo should remain.
Cutoffs at 5 years old, or 97, would also be arbitrary. That is probably the worst argument of any kind ever advanced since the invention of speech.
Most 16yr olds don't know their arse from their elbow.
So even though they know Johnson’s an arse, they won’t give him the elbow?
Haven't you got to go and play with your organ?
I’m on holiday. You can’t take an organ with you, especially not one with an eight foot horn. It doesn’t fit in the seat.
I did for a while have a practice organ (an old analogue Viscount) on our narrowboat. Sadly I never got to play 565 while going through Harecastle Tunnel.
Most 16yr olds don't know their arse from their elbow.
We allow people with serious dementia to vote.
The best argument against 16 years old voting is simply the cut off line is arbitrary and 16 is no better or worse than 18, so the status quo should remain.
Cutoffs at 5 years old, or 97, would also be arbitrary. That is probably the worst argument of any kind ever advanced since the invention of speech.
5 or 97 are clearly worse than 16 or 18. 16 is not clearly worse or better than 18.
... Between the election Boris features as host of the NATO conference in London ...
The assumption seems to be that the NATO conference will be an opportunity for Johnson to play the statesman and look Prime Ministerial - and thus be a benefit electorally.
However, I'm not convinced it will get much coverage - with the exception of whatever Trump says. I think it's quite likely that Trump says things that can be broadly categorised as: 1. Isn't Boris great? He's great! 2. You NATO bozos need to pay the US more dough to defend you. Putin is great too! Europeans are losers! 3. The Democrats are liars and traitors! I'll impeach them, see how they like it!
Unless Johnson goes all Love Actually on Trump I don't see how that plays well for him at all. A personal endorsement from Trump, in person, in London, a week before the election? Grade A kryptonite.
If it's on the day of the election it will get no TV coverage at all - and be a complete nightmare for the police to have simultaneous major events.
If it's during the campaign it will only get mentioned in passing 'This is where Boris was today, he said he looks forward to NATO being strengthened' - before moving on to 'Jeremy says NATO is an imperial construct that should be abolished'
Is this correct? I thought it was one of the conditions that meant somebody lost their vote in its later stages, although I will admit I don’t know much about it either way. Seems a bit silly if true.
Isn't there a new set of EU financial regulations which come into effect on Jan 1st and are supposed to be 'detrimental' to some prominent people in UK?
No - it’s been debunked multiple times. It’s a myth propagated by people who want to demonise Brexiteers as shady international financiers. I wonder what they are implying/assuming?
That Brexiteers are shady international financiers, at a guess.
Uncanny! How did you deduce the bloody obvious such a subtle subtext?...
Is this correct? I thought it was one of the conditions that meant somebody lost their vote in its later stages, although I will admit I don’t know much about it either way. Seems a bit silly if true.
The wilting flower theory that people won't vote cos it's parky out, is bullshit.
It will definitely make a difference at the margins, but since an election wouldn't happen in winter unless there was an important reason for it then there will be other effects that will increase turnout. I'd expect the latter effects to be stronger than the former.
See above - I now think we should be considering the danger of severe weather of "Do not travel unless your journey is essential" levels decimating turnout.
Severe weather is possible at any time of year. There have been some very severe floods during a few recent summers for example. Granted that it's more likely in winter, but I'm not sure how much more likely the "do not travel" red weather warnings are.
Perhaps that's something to send the Met Office a question about.
Most 16yr olds don't know their arse from their elbow.
We allow people with serious dementia to vote.
The best argument against 16 years old voting is simply the cut off line is arbitrary and 16 is no better or worse than 18, so the status quo should remain.
Cutoffs at 5 years old, or 97, would also be arbitrary. That is probably the worst argument of any kind ever advanced since the invention of speech.
5 or 97 are clearly worse than 16 or 18. 16 is not clearly worse or better than 18.
Speaking as somebody whose job is to work on a daily basis with adolescents, I would flatly disagree. An awful lot of growing up is done between 16 and 18. At sixteen they haven’t learned caution and will try literally anything. At eighteen, they are settling down a bit - although they can still be rather wild they are beginning to learn how to say ‘no.’
Personally, I would have said in my experience 21 would be a better age to grant the vote, as a great deal more growing up is done in those years. But unfortunately Wilson allowed that ship to sail fifty years ago.
Isn't there a new set of EU financial regulations which come into effect on Jan 1st and are supposed to be 'detrimental' to some prominent people in UK?
No - it’s been debunked multiple times. It’s a myth propagated by people who want to demonise Brexiteers as shady international financiers. I wonder what they are implying/assuming?
That Brexiteers are shady international financiers, at a guess.
It’s a dog whistle for anti-semites - not suggesting people on this site who post it have this intention - but the original source did
"As ever with Johnson, there are pragmatic reasons for finally letting Scotland go, which resonate with an almost frightening level of personal ambition. The departure for good of all Scottish MPs would make it almost impossible for Labour to entertain any prospect of power in the foreseeable future. This would leave him virtually unopposed as prime minister of England for a generation."
Most 16yr olds don't know their arse from their elbow.
We allow people with serious dementia to vote.
The best argument against 16 years old voting is simply the cut off line is arbitrary and 16 is no better or worse than 18, so the status quo should remain.
Cutoffs at 5 years old, or 97, would also be arbitrary. That is probably the worst argument of any kind ever advanced since the invention of speech.
5 or 97 are clearly worse than 16 or 18. 16 is not clearly worse or better than 18.
Speaking as somebody whose job is to work on a daily basis with adolescents, I would flatly disagree. An awful lot of growing up is done between 16 and 18. At sixteen they haven’t learned caution and will try literally anything. At eighteen, they are settling down a bit - although they can still be rather wild they are beginning to learn how to say ‘no.’
Personally, I would have said in my experience 21 would be a better age to grant the vote, as a great deal more growing up is done in those years. But unfortunately Wilson allowed that ship to sail fifty years ago.
And others would disagree and say 16 is better, hence it being the choice in Scotland, Jersey, Guernsey, Isle of Man, Austria, Brazil, Argentina amongst others.
I can see merits in your answer but also in those who put the case for 16. Ergo neither is clearly worse or better than the other, and the status quo should remain.
Though we will probably Brexit, I think it unlikely to be a grateful demos afterwards. This survey in the Observer is an interesting one. Even amongst Leavers there is a substantial minority who wished the whole business of the referendum had never happened.
Hannan's piece reads quite reasonable to me, except for the fact that Remainer May being in power dragged out the period of shock at Brexit until she was replaced. As soon as we had a Leaver as PM terms were indeed easily enough.
Er... When are you expecting Denmark, Ireland and the Netherlands to follow us out of the EU?
The piece was written from the future which hasn't happened yet.
I'm not expecting anyone to immediately follow us out but I do think many are watching to see how Brexit goes. Right now, especially due to the self-inflicted dragging us down inflicted by Remainer May and Remainer MPs in Parliament Brexit looks like it might be more hassle than its worth but once we are out and Project Fear is shown to be the BS it always was then a smooth Brexit can fuel Euroscepticism in a good way. People should be in the EU because its what they want not because they're afraid there's no alternative.
I don't expect Ireland to follow us out, and probably not the Netherlands either - but I think Denmark and Sweden certainly might.
A new Hanseatic League always more economic sense than the EU...
Most 16yr olds don't know their arse from their elbow.
We allow people with serious dementia to vote.
The best argument against 16 years old voting is simply the cut off line is arbitrary and 16 is no better or worse than 18, so the status quo should remain.
Cutoffs at 5 years old, or 97, would also be arbitrary. That is probably the worst argument of any kind ever advanced since the invention of speech.
5 or 97 are clearly worse than 16 or 18. 16 is not clearly worse or better than 18.
Speaking as somebody whose job is to work on a daily basis with adolescents, I would flatly disagree. An awful lot of growing up is done between 16 and 18. At sixteen they haven’t learned caution and will try literally anything. At eighteen, they are settling down a bit - although they can still be rather wild they are beginning to learn how to say ‘no.’
Personally, I would have said in my experience 21 would be a better age to grant the vote, as a great deal more growing up is done in those years. But unfortunately Wilson allowed that ship to sail fifty years ago.
It's all rubbish. The franchise should only be available to net contributors to the Exchequer.
No representation without net contribution of taxation.
The country has gone to the dogs since we started widening the franchise, we've lost an empire for starters
We Remainers have a "Powerful backer"?? No one told me.
I wonder who it is?
The establishment.
Whether it be the courts, MPs, the speaker, the media, the rich etc all want to block Brexit
The media?! This will be the media that's spent forty years poisoning the public's mind against the EU with bollocks stories about straight bananas etc. The courts are just trying to enforce the law, as is their job. The rich are split on Brexit, but on both sides have more clout than the rest of us because they're rich. MPs are split, they are mostly trying to stop a no deal Brexit. The speaker is trying to let MPs have their say, because that is his job. You're being paranoid.
We Remainers have a "Powerful backer"?? No one told me.
I wonder who it is?
The establishment.
Whether it be the courts, MPs, the speaker, the media, the rich etc all want to block Brexit
The media?! This will be the media that's spent forty years poisoning the public's mind against the EU with bollocks stories about straight bananas etc.
Ridiculous to talk about straight bananas.
Evreryone knows they’re asexual and reproduce by cloning.
No - it’s been debunked multiple times. It’s a myth propagated by people who want to demonise Brexiteers as shady international financiers. I wonder what they are implying/assuming?
The tried & tested 'racists' formulation probably works here -
Most Leavers are not shady international financiers.
But almost all shady international financiers are Leavers.
No, they are not.
(There are plenty of international financiers who are pro-Remain. Like any other sector it is split)
Although I am precisely the kind of “Remainiac” Carswell wants hounded out of the country, I don’t think it is reasonable to change the franchise all of a sudden.
I read it as Brexit blockers - in Parliament - not people who don’t like Brexit
People like you may campaign against it but it’s not the same as “blocking” it because (no offence) you don’t have that power
So you can campaign against it, but as soon as you start becoming effective you are a traitor and need to be chucked out of the country? Got it!
Comments
https://video.search.yahoo.com/yhs/search?fr=yhs-domaindev-st_emea&hsimp=yhs-st_emea&hspart=domaindev&p=ann+widdicombe+maiden+speech#id=1&vid=45328ddcfa01200c02501c8e203eaaaf&action=view
I'm not expecting anyone to immediately follow us out but I do think many are watching to see how Brexit goes. Right now, especially due to the self-inflicted dragging us down inflicted by Remainer May and Remainer MPs in Parliament Brexit looks like it might be more hassle than its worth but once we are out and Project Fear is shown to be the BS it always was then a smooth Brexit can fuel Euroscepticism in a good way. People should be in the EU because its what they want not because they're afraid there's no alternative.
I don't expect Ireland to follow us out, and probably not the Netherlands either - but I think Denmark and Sweden certainly might.
My thoughts and IMHO
Boris will fail to get a GE tomorrow
The EU will confirm extension to 31st January on tuesday, not least because it was Parliaments request. Also the joint letter from the Lib Dems and SNP to the EU formally asking for this date to hold a GE provides the EU with the reason they have been demanding
The Lib dem - SNP amendment to the FTPA is put forward and according to Sophy Ridge all the opposition parties now support it including the DUP
Labour try to amend it for 16s, but as stated in the media, it is impossible to do so before Christmas, so their amendment falls and the election is confirmed
Between the election Boris features as host of the NATO conference in London
The GE sees gains for the Conservatives, SNP and Lib Dems and labour suffering loses from all sides
The GE may give Boris a majority, but equally it may not giving the Lib Dems a golden opportunity of demanding a referendum in a remain dominated HOC
Labour are in a crisis that sees the end of the Corbyn era
And - I think that will do for now
Arron Banks, James Dyson, Tim Martin, Peter Hargreaves, Jeremy Hosking, Lord Edmiston, Crispin Odey, Lord Bamford, the Barclay brothers, Viscount Rothermere, Jacob Rees-Mogg and many, many others beg to differ.
https://www.businessinsider.com/twenty-one-biggest-donors-to-the-leave-brexit-campaign-2017-5?r=US&IR=T
https://www.telegraph.co.uk/news/2019/10/27/chief-abu-bakr-al-baghdadi-reportedly-killed-us-forces/
https://twitter.com/realDonaldTrump/status/1188264965930700801
It is also a THURSDAY!!!!
Election day?
I just do not see how she gets an either or agreement
https://enormo-haddock.blogspot.com/2019/10/mexico-pre-race-2019.html
Most Leavers are not shady international financiers.
But almost all shady international financiers are Leavers.
Going to stand as an Independent
Hammond is being given a free run. The LDs are standing aside
A customs union would see Boris pull the deal and without a GE we are out with no deal on the 31st January
"As ever with Johnson, there are pragmatic reasons for finally letting Scotland go, which resonate with an almost frightening level of personal ambition. The departure for good of all Scottish MPs would make it almost impossible for Labour to entertain any prospect of power in the foreseeable future. This would leave him virtually unopposed as prime minister of England for a generation."
Compared to the Tories 31,436
He added there is not have time to pass votes for 16s
I just take and form my own opinions and argue them from my own principles, without sticking to any partisan line. How is that repetitive?
The only reason people are pushing it is that it's utterly unacceptable.
Man in Washington telephones Ukraine, people die in Syria.
However, I'm not convinced it will get much coverage - with the exception of whatever Trump says. I think it's quite likely that Trump says things that can be broadly categorised as:
1. Isn't Boris great? He's great!
2. You NATO bozos need to pay the US more dough to defend you. Putin is great too! Europeans are losers!
3. The Democrats are liars and traitors! I'll impeach them, see how they like it!
Unless Johnson goes all Love Actually on Trump I don't see how that plays well for him at all. A personal endorsement from Trump, in person, in London, a week before the election? Grade A kryptonite.
The best argument against 16 years old voting is simply the cut off line is arbitrary and 16 is no better or worse than 18, so the status quo should remain.
If it's during the campaign it will only get mentioned in passing 'This is where Boris was today, he said he looks forward to NATO being strengthened' - before moving on to 'Jeremy says NATO is an imperial construct that should be abolished'
Edit: Obviously not, hope you have a fun holiday!
The whole interview is an oscar performance of obfuscation
Is this correct? I thought it was one of the conditions that meant somebody lost their vote in its later stages, although I will admit I don’t know much about it either way. Seems a bit silly if true.
the bloody obvioussuch a subtle subtext?...Perhaps that's something to send the Met Office a question about.
Now 100% watching the lads
Personally, I would have said in my experience 21 would be a better age to grant the vote, as a great deal more growing up is done in those years. But unfortunately Wilson allowed that ship to sail fifty years ago.
https://timesofmalta.com/articles/view/Celebrating-Malta-s-historic-pipe-organs.527651
I can see merits in your answer but also in those who put the case for 16. Ergo neither is clearly worse or better than the other, and the status quo should remain.
No representation without net contribution of taxation.
The country has gone to the dogs since we started widening the franchise, we've lost an empire for starters
Evreryone knows they’re asexual and reproduce by cloning.
Well, the edible sort anyway.
(There are plenty of international financiers who are pro-Remain. Like any other sector it is split)
In the same way Obama waded in to the referendum campaign backfired so would an endorsement from Trump.