eek said: "and when asked told her about the new Aldi where people had hoped to get jobs only to discover a team of Eastern Europeans were working there."
I went to a debate a while ago. John Mann MP was on the panel. He told of a example of a business in his constituency needing 100 new employee for an expansion. They sent a delegation to Poland and staffed their new depot entirely with Polish immigrants. The posts were not even advertised in his constituency.
Mann expalaned that this is why many working class people voted to leave the EU. Against free movement rules, not racist.
Some leavers are no doubt racist - but I think it unfair and incorrect to level this against the majority of leavers. Mann`s example is one that we all should be concerned about.
If you go back to my original comment, I explicitly picked an Asian and Romanian name as it's immigrants people want gone - just notany they happen to know.
Philip however wants to use the word racist as he tries to marginalise the issue.
I am arguing that the referendum result must be honoured, that this Deal does so, and that another vote is not justified and in any case is for the birds -
If this is a 'remoaner' in your book, I dread (!) to think what that book is.
Is it just me that finds Jucker's bemoaning of Brexit as a "waste of time and a waste of energy" to find that very self-pitying nonsense.
Juncker afterall was in charge of negotiations with Cameron for his renegotiation that was such a dreadful flop. Maybe if he'd put a bit more time and energy and taken Britain more seriously five years ago he could have avoided Brexit. I know a lot of Brexit voters like myself who found the EU's rejection of Cameron's reasonable demands to be the final straw that switched us from Remain to Leave.
'Bullshit. You can suspect all the bullshit you want, that does not represent leavers.
If you're going to cast racist aspersions then how about rather than naming Midlands and Northern towns and cities then going vague you name names. There's dozens of leave voters here, if "every leaver" supports turfing out people who legally live here you shouldn't have any difficulty naming one here with that view.
Or you can have some decency to admit it was a vile nasty aspersion that has no grounding in reality.'
Hey guys. Long time lurker, first time poster.
I live in Yvette Cooper's constituency. There are many people in this neck of the woods who will be disconcerted when there are still foreign-born people here after Brexit. I was speaking to my window cleaner the other week - in his 50s, never, ever, voted until the referendum, recently joined the Brexit Party. Amongst a welter of eyebrow raising comments was his assertion that there should be no more funding for the NHS until all foreigners have left the UK post-Brexit.
That doesn't represent all leavers, I accept that, and certainly not on this rarefied forum. But there are plenty of those people out there.
Edit - I need to learn how block quotes work...
I'd be interested in your perception as to whether Yvette will survive in NP&C in the next General Election.
She had nearly 60 per cent of the vote in 2017, but the constituency was nearly 70 per cent leave.
All but three of them are now firmly behind Boris so why would I not be happy to see my party unite
Your party? I thought you had resigned? Or have you followed Boris's example of leadership by pretending to resign and then saying "Oh no I haven't!"
I resigned all right. I could show you my letter but as is the case with the one nation conservatives backing the deal last night, and the party coming together, I will rejoin
You are easily (mis)led then. Boris is no more trustworthy and appropriate as PM than the day you resigned.
Mr. Thompson, the renegotiation with Cameron harmed the Remain side come the campaign. One might argue whether to blame the pro-EU complacency of one side or the other, but either way it didn't do them any favours.
First off, look or get outside. A beautiful morning as you say. Indeed a perfect one - it's what makes the UK so special, that and mushy peas, but I digress.
Secondly, it looks like we will indeed leave with Boris' deal but take heart. Utter, utter tosser as he may be, trade negotiations, not being sexy, mean that sensible people are likely to take over and I'm pretty sure the deal we end up with will look for all the world like staying in the EU, with us signing up to anything and everything the EU suggests or requires. Dominic Raab will of course wave the Tonga Trade Deal paper along the way as evidence of our sovereignty, but we will remain very closely aligned with the EU.
Once the deed has been done, then I would rather a Conservative administration headed by a soft right metropolitan liberal such as Johnson negotiates the Future Trading Relationship than a party lead by a Marxist (or was it Marxist-Leninist) anti semite and hard Brexiter. Which are the options as it appears to me. And I'm sure the country also. So bring on your election and let the people decide.
My ideal outcome from this point
We Leave with Boris's deal. Labour see sense and dump Corbyn A GE at which one side or the other actually wins a majority. I would be hard pressed to choose which way to vote at that one depending on who was the Labour leader. We have someone sensible as PM who negotiates a reasonable FTA based on practicality rather than ideology.
My own personal unicorn of course is that that deal is EFTA/EEA membership but I realise that is probably a unicorn which poops bricks of gold .
But I do agree about this wonderful autumn morning.
My concern at the moment is the timescale for a FTA deal and worse the impact of next achieving that impossible timescale as we will need to continue paying into an EU budget that now has a massive UK sized hole in it without any say in said budget.
As I have said before I think there is an element of people overplaying the issue of the time for an FTA by looking at comparisons like Canada.
The important point about a UK/EU FTA is that we start from a point of perfect alignment of rules/standards. That part of any FTA - agreeing who will change their standards and how it will be done - is much reduced in this situation.
What will take the time and is the big unknown are the rules on divergence from current standards and also on non tariff barriers.
SunnyJim said: "Rather redundant given the platform."
Well I guess that sometimes people post something which is not necessarily intended to prevoke a response. Adding "Discuss" makes it explicit that the poster would be obliged if he/she received some feedback on the point made.
Trudeau is a PC-loving, virtue-signalling poseur. Discuss.
First off, look or get outside. A beautiful morning as you say. Indeed a perfect one - it's what makes the UK so special, that and mushy peas, but I digress.
Secondly, it looks like we will indeed leave with Boris' deal but take heart. Utter, utter tosser as he may be, trade negotiations, not being sexy, mean that sensible people are likely to take over and I'm pretty sure the deal we end up with will look for all the world like staying in the EU, with us signing up to anything and everything the EU suggests or requires. Dominic Raab will of course wave the Tonga Trade Deal paper along the way as evidence of our sovereignty, but we will remain very closely aligned with the EU.
Once the deed has been done, then I would rather a Conservative administration headed by a soft right metropolitan liberal such as Johnson negotiates the Future Trading Relationship than a party lead by a Marxist (or was it Marxist-Leninist) anti semite and hard Brexiter. Which are the options as it appears to me. And I'm sure the country also. So bring on your election and let the people decide.
My ideal outcome from this point
We Leave with Boris's deal. Labour see sense and dump Corbyn A GE at which one side or the other actually wins a majority. I would be hard pressed to choose which way to vote at that one depending on who was the Labour leader. We have someone sensible as PM who negotiates a reasonable FTA based on practicality rather than ideology.
My own personal unicorn of course is that that deal is EFTA/EEA membership but I realise that is probably a unicorn which poops bricks of gold .
But I do agree about this wonderful autumn morning.
Gosh Richard, I could have written that myself! Let us hope that your unicorn ends up not being a unicorn. After all, it would be a sensible compromise and probably command a considerable amount of support
All but three of them are now firmly behind Boris so why would I not be happy to see my party unite
Your party? I thought you had resigned? Or have you followed Boris's example of leadership by pretending to resign and then saying "Oh no I haven't!"
I resigned all right. I could show you my letter but as is the case with the one nation conservatives backing the deal last night, and the party coming together, I will rejoin
You are easily (mis)led then. Boris is no more trustworthy and appropriate as PM than the day you resigned.
It is not that I trust Boris it is that the party is uniting
Secondly, it looks like we will indeed leave with Boris' deal but take heart. Utter, utter tosser as he may be, trade negotiations, not being sexy, mean that sensible people are likely to take over and I'm pretty sure the deal we end up with will look for all the world like staying in the EU, with us signing up to anything and everything the EU suggests or requires. Dominic Raab will of course wave the Tonga Trade Deal paper along the way as evidence of our sovereignty, but we will remain very closely aligned with the EU.
Once the deed has been done, then I would rather a Conservative administration headed by a soft right metropolitan liberal such as Johnson negotiates the Future Trading Relationship than a party lead by a Marxist (or was it Marxist-Leninist) anti semite and hard Brexiter. Which are the options as it appears to me. And I'm sure the country also. So bring on your election and let the people decide.
Brexit is driving many mad. If we divide the country into metropolitans, small town residents, and countryside dwellers, and then cross-divide into liberals and traditionalists, the metropolitan liberals are the most pro-Remain of all groups. As for Jeremy Corbyn, he leads a party which is in favour of the whole of Britain staying in the customs union and he is nothing like a hard "if Australia doesn't want us, we'll go full on Pyongyang" Brexiter.
The current "Deal" is totally batsh*t. @Mike in the thread header is right to bemoan the poor understanding of 200 years of Irish politics. If it is successful, the Deal will station customs officials from the EU in Northern Irish ports of entry, authorised to overrule local customs officials. I can tell you for certain that the DUP and their "no surrender" chums just simply won't be allowing that, whatever anyone's law might say. Sectarian emblems on lampposts aren't there for mere decoration.
First off, look or get outside. A beautiful morning as you say. Indeed a perfect one - it's what makes the UK so special, that and mushy peas, but I digress.
Secondly, it looks like we will indeed leave with Boris' deal but take heart. Utter, utter tosser as he may be, trade negotiations, not being sexy, mean that sensible people are likely to take over and I'm pretty sure the deal we end up with will look for all the world like staying in the EU, with us signing up to anything and everything the EU suggests or requires. Dominic Raab will of course wave the Tonga Trade Deal paper along the way as evidence of our sovereignty, but we will remain very closely aligned with the EU.
Once the deed has been done, then I would rather a Conservative administration headed by a soft right metropolitan liberal such as Johnson negotiates the Future Trading Relationship than a party lead by a Marxist (or was it Marxist-Leninist) anti semite and hard Brexiter. Which are the options as it appears to me. And I'm sure the country also. So bring on your election and let the people decide.
Yes, reasons to be cheerful part 1, I agree that we will end up with close alignment, 'soft brexit' if you like, anything else being palpably stupid. Also given I have called most of this stuff broadly right as we have gone along, I am smug city on the betting. And I am going out soon. I'm going to waitrose.
As to whether you are right or I am right about the essential nature of a majority government with this Tory party and this leader, well I hope we don't get to find out.
PS: I guess you will not be rooting for them too hard in the GE, when it comes, since as I recall you have resigned in disgust (!) at the direction they're lunging in.
The mps who have defected were elected on their manifesto and not someone elses.
They lose democratic legitimacy with their electorate and I hope in the next Parliament the mps will pass an act to see any mp who changes party has to submit to a by election within 28 days
There are 3 points in your argument that you don't seem to have grasped so I will try to explain them again.
1) MPs are not delegates of their constituents nor delegates of the rosette they wore when elected.
2) MPs can still support and vote for a manifesto while no longer being a member of the party they were elected on. In fact that is what most of the MPs who have resigned their original party are doing you don't however seem to have noticed that.
Sadly the opposite also seems to have occurred in such a way that you have both not noticed and when pointed out explicitly stated that you don't care.
3) The Tory party are currently attempting to push through items well outside the commitments they made within the manifesto they were elected upon - yet you are happy for them to do so as you wear a blue rosette.
You seem to believe we vote for rosette delegates - we don't we vote for representatives. And personally it seems the people who are least fulfilling the role they were elected in 2017 are not those who left their old parties but those still wearing a No Deal is fine blue rosette.
eek said: "and when asked told her about the new Aldi where people had hoped to get jobs only to discover a team of Eastern Europeans were working there."
I went to a debate a while ago. John Mann MP was on the panel. He told of a example of a business in his constituency needing 100 new employee for an expansion. They sent a delegation to Poland and staffed their new depot entirely with Polish immigrants. The posts were not even advertised in his constituency.
Mann expalaned that this is why many working class people voted to leave the EU. Against free movement rules, not racist.
Some leavers are no doubt racist - but I think it unfair and incorrect to level this against the majority of leavers. Mann`s example is one that we all should be concerned about.
So why did the business decide to recruit from overseas? That's the interesting question.
blueblue said: "This is the contempt in which Labour is already held in the country. More election-dodging by Corbyn the Cowardly may yet push them into third place!"
I`ve been playing around with the Electoral Calculus GE Prediction thingy. Unfortunately it is difficult to get a result which implies LibDems getting more seats than Labour even if they get more votes. Unfortunately.
Seems like the DUP didn't really engage their brain when they rejected May's deal. If they'd have been in favour it'd probably have brought the ERG with them...…..
May's WA is dead and buried. The Tories will never go back to that now that Boris's Better Deal exists. The SNP and LDs will never accept any WA. Labour wouldn't push that WA either.
I'm not seeing more than a handful of votes for May's WA if it came back now.
LD and SNP would vote for it if they got their referendum. Obviously they'd need to rebrand it as $CARETAKER's deal not TMay's.
Stocky said: eek said: "and when asked told her about the new Aldi where people had hoped to get jobs only to discover a team of Eastern Europeans were working there."
I went to a debate a while ago. John Mann MP was on the panel. He told of a example of a business in his constituency needing 100 new employee for an expansion. They sent a delegation to Poland and staffed their new depot entirely with Polish immigrants. The posts were not even advertised in his constituency.
Mann expalaned that this is why many working class people voted to leave the EU. Against free movement rules, not racist.
Some leavers are no doubt racist - but I think it unfair and incorrect to level this against the majority of leavers. Mann`s example is one that we all should be concerned about."
"So why did the business decide to recruit from overseas? That's the interesting question."
Cheaper obviously. Doesn`t mean that there shouldn`t be rules against it though.
First off, look or get outside. A beautiful morning as you say. Indeed a perfect one - it's what makes the UK so special, that and mushy peas, but I digress.
Secondly, it looks like we will indeed leave with Boris' deal but take heart. Utter, utter tosser as he may be, trade negotiations, not being sexy, mean that sensible people are likely to take over and I'm pretty sure the deal we end up with will look for all the world like staying in the EU, with us signing up to anything and everything the EU suggests or requires. Dominic Raab will of course wave the Tonga Trade Deal paper along the way as evidence of our sovereignty, but we will remain very closely aligned with the EU.
Once the deed has been done, then I would rather a Conservative administration headed by a soft right metropolitan liberal such as Johnson negotiates the Future Trading Relationship than a party lead by a Marxist (or was it Marxist-Leninist) anti semite and hard Brexiter. Which are the options as it appears to me. And I'm sure the country also. So bring on your election and let the people decide.
My ideal outcome from this point
We Leave with Boris's deal. Labour see sense and dump Corbyn A GE at which one side or the other actually wins a majority. I would be hard pressed to choose which way to vote at that one depending on who was the Labour leader. We have someone sensible as PM who negotiates a reasonable FTA based on practicality rather than ideology.
My own personal unicorn of course is that that deal is EFTA/EEA membership but I realise that is probably a unicorn which poops bricks of gold .
But I do agree about this wonderful autumn morning.
My concern at the moment is the timescale for a FTA deal and worse the impact of next achieving that impossible timescale as we will need to continue paying into an EU budget that now has a massive UK sized hole in it without any say in said budget.
As I have said before I think there is an element of people overplaying the issue of the time for an FTA by looking at comparisons like Canada.
The important point about a UK/EU FTA is that we start from a point of perfect alignment of rules/standards. That part of any FTA - agreeing who will change their standards and how it will be done - is much reduced in this situation.
What will take the time and is the big unknown are the rules on divergence from current standards and also on non tariff barriers.
Precisely. Cherrypicking as it was originally called.
Gosh Richard, I could have written that myself! Let us hope that your unicorn ends up not being a unicorn. After all, it would be a sensible compromise and probably command a considerable amount of support
I think EFTA with a custom arrangement (to respect the GFA) is the only thing that will work long term. Revoke/Remain would be a democratic disaster, and Hard Brexit an economic disaster.
Broadly speaking most of the things we like about EU membership are trade related, and most of what we dislike is the political side of the EU. EFTA would let us keep the former and dispense with the later. I think the vast majority of people could live with it, only the true Europhobes and Europhiles would be unhappy with a looser relationship with the EU.
The trouble is the whole referendum and Brexit process has pushed people towards taking extreme positions, rather than trying to find some common ground we could accept. I don't see any way out of this at the moment.
eek said: "and when asked told her about the new Aldi where people had hoped to get jobs only to discover a team of Eastern Europeans were working there."
I went to a debate a while ago. John Mann MP was on the panel. He told of a example of a business in his constituency needing 100 new employee for an expansion. They sent a delegation to Poland and staffed their new depot entirely with Polish immigrants. The posts were not even advertised in his constituency.
Mann expalaned that this is why many working class people voted to leave the EU. Against free movement rules, not racist.
Some leavers are no doubt racist - but I think it unfair and incorrect to level this against the majority of leavers. Mann`s example is one that we all should be concerned about.
So why did the business decide to recruit from overseas? That's the interesting question.
If pharmacy is any guide it's because top management thought they could get away with paying lower wages. At least until the Poles discovered what was happening!
Just seen this quote on the Guardian's site: 'Britain will be “living a free country” in nine days if MPs vote for the bill, according to Mark Francois, '
Well I guess that sometimes people post something which is not necessarily intended to prevoke a response. Adding "Discuss" makes it explicit that the poster would be obliged if he/she received some feedback on the point made.
More commonly used for trolling nowadays, unfortunately.
Pineapple on Pizza ought to be declared the national dish. Discuss.
Well I guess that sometimes people post something which is not necessarily intended to prevoke a response. Adding "Discuss" makes it explicit that the poster would be obliged if he/she received some feedback on the point made.
More commonly used for trolling nowadays, unfortunately.
Pineapple on Pizza ought to be declared the national dish. Discuss.
Main course and pudding in one course - it reduces the calories you eat.
eek said: "and when asked told her about the new Aldi where people had hoped to get jobs only to discover a team of Eastern Europeans were working there."
I went to a debate a while ago. John Mann MP was on the panel. He told of a example of a business in his constituency needing 100 new employee for an expansion. They sent a delegation to Poland and staffed their new depot entirely with Polish immigrants. The posts were not even advertised in his constituency.
Mann expalaned that this is why many working class people voted to leave the EU. Against free movement rules, not racist.
Some leavers are no doubt racist - but I think it unfair and incorrect to level this against the majority of leavers. Mann`s example is one that we all should be concerned about.
So why did the business decide to recruit from overseas? That's the interesting question.
EU posted workers directive - Polish workers rights when working in the UK. All the horror stories Sports Direct, etc are related to this.
eek said: "and when asked told her about the new Aldi where people had hoped to get jobs only to discover a team of Eastern Europeans were working there."
I went to a debate a while ago. John Mann MP was on the panel. He told of a example of a business in his constituency needing 100 new employee for an expansion. They sent a delegation to Poland and staffed their new depot entirely with Polish immigrants. The posts were not even advertised in his constituency.
Mann expalaned that this is why many working class people voted to leave the EU. Against free movement rules, not racist.
Some leavers are no doubt racist - but I think it unfair and incorrect to level this against the majority of leavers. Mann`s example is one that we all should be concerned about.
So why did the business decide to recruit from overseas? That's the interesting question.
If pharmacy is any guide it's because top management thought they could get away with paying lower wages. At least until the Poles discovered what was happening!
If you look at the lack of productivity improvements in the UK over the past 15 years it's clear that cheap labour has both kept wage increase low while also reducing the need for large capital investment.
First off, look or get outside. A beautiful morning as you say. Indeed a perfect one - it's what makes the UK so special, that and mushy peas, but I digress.
Secondly, it looks like we will indeed leave with Boris' deal but take heart. Utter, utter tosser as he may be, trade negotiations, not being sexy, mean that sensible people are likely to take over and I'm pretty sure the deal we end up with will look for all the world like staying in the EU, with us signing up to anything and everything the EU suggests or requires. Dominic Raab will of course wave the Tonga Trade Deal paper along the way as evidence of our sovereignty, but we will remain very closely aligned with the EU.
Once the deed has been done, then I would rather a Conservative administration headed by a soft right metropolitan liberal such as Johnson negotiates the Future Trading Relationship than a party lead by a Marxist (or was it Marxist-Leninist) anti semite and hard Brexiter. Which are the options as it appears to me. And I'm sure the country also. So bring on your election and let the people decide.
My ideal outcome from this point
We Leave with Boris's deal. Labour see sense and dump Corbyn A GE at which one side or the other actually wins a majority. I would be hard pressed to choose which way to vote at that one depending on who was the Labour leader. We have someone sensible as PM who negotiates a reasonable FTA based on practicality rather than ideology.
My own personal unicorn of course is that that deal is EFTA/EEA membership but I realise that is probably a unicorn which poops bricks of gold .
But I do agree about this wonderful autumn morning.
My concern at the moment is the timescale for a FTA deal and worse the impact of next achieving that impossible timescale as we will need to continue paying into an EU budget that now has a massive UK sized hole in it without any say in said budget.
As I have said before I think there is an element of people overplaying the issue of the time for an FTA by looking at comparisons like Canada.
The important point about a UK/EU FTA is that we start from a point of perfect alignment of rules/standards. That part of any FTA - agreeing who will change their standards and how it will be done - is much reduced in this situation.
What will take the time and is the big unknown are the rules on divergence from current standards and also on non tariff barriers.
Even I agree with the endpoint of that journey, I just would have taken a different approach to the start. Sadly, we are where we are.
Secondly, it looks like we will indeed leave with Boris' deal but take heart. Utter, utter tosser as he may be, trade negotiations, not being sexy, mean that sensible people are likely to take over and I'm pretty sure the deal we end up with will look for all the world like staying in the EU, with us signing up to anything and everything the EU suggests or requires. Dominic Raab will of course wave the Tonga Trade Deal paper along the way as evidence of our sovereignty, but we will remain very closely aligned with the EU.
Once the deed has been done, then I would rather a Conservative administration headed by a soft right metropolitan liberal such as Johnson negotiates the Future Trading Relationship than a party lead by a Marxist (or was it Marxist-Leninist) anti semite and hard Brexiter. Which are the options as it appears to me. And I'm sure the country also. So bring on your election and let the people decide.
Brexit is driving many mad. If we divide the country into metropolitans, small town residents, and countryside dwellers, and then cross-divide into liberals and traditionalists, the metropolitan liberals are the most pro-Remain of all groups. As for Jeremy Corbyn, he leads a party which is in favour of the whole of Britain staying in the customs union and he is nothing like a hard "if Australia doesn't want us, we'll go full on Pyongyang" Brexiter.
The current "Deal" is totally batsh*t. @Mike in the thread header is right to bemoan the poor understanding of 200 years of Irish politics. If it is successful, the Deal will station customs officials from the EU in Northern Irish ports of entry, authorised to overrule local customs officials. I can tell you for certain that the DUP and their "no surrender" chums just simply won't be allowing that, whatever anyone's law might say. Sectarian emblems on lampposts aren't there for mere decoration.
Be clear. I think it is shocking that Boris has created a deal which so cavalierly ditches the Unionist cause. From the start it has been obvious that NI is driving the whole effort and Boris has chosen to ignore it.
I do not have a window into the minds of the loyalists but I agree that febrile does not begin to describe the situation.
May's deal addressed if not completely solved this issue but the DUP voted against.
In the first six months since the start of the current tax year in April, borrowing has hit £40.3bn, 21.6% higher than the same period in 2018, when it was just £33.2bn, the ONS said....
This is the contempt in which Labour is already held in the country. More election-dodging by Corbyn the Cowardly may yet push them into third place!
How on earth can the opposition be at 22% in this utter horlicks
Labour mps looking at this poll need to act now, back the deal and motion, and then as we leave they can move towards their domestic agenda
It really is a no brainer but of course it would help if they could eject their leader
Corbyn, but sadly getting rid of Corbyn seems to be impossible as Labour's membership has shifted to the left in the same way that Tory membership has shifted to the left.
Seems like the DUP didn't really engage their brain when they rejected May's deal. If they'd have been in favour it'd probably have brought the ERG with them...…..
It was stark raving bonkers for them to reject May's deal.
Only if you thought they were trying to stop Brexit altogether do their actions make any sense.
eek said: "and when asked told her about the new Aldi where people had hoped to get jobs only to discover a team of Eastern Europeans were working there."
I went to a debate a while ago. John Mann MP was on the panel. He told of a example of a business in his constituency needing 100 new employee for an expansion. They sent a delegation to Poland and staffed their new depot entirely with Polish immigrants. The posts were not even advertised in his constituency.
Mann expalaned that this is why many working class people voted to leave the EU. Against free movement rules, not racist.
Some leavers are no doubt racist - but I think it unfair and incorrect to level this against the majority of leavers. Mann`s example is one that we all should be concerned about.
So why did the business decide to recruit from overseas? That's the interesting question.
If pharmacy is any guide it's because top management thought they could get away with paying lower wages. At least until the Poles discovered what was happening!
I think the value of the pound is also a factor. The higher the pound the greater the incentive to come here and, ironically, the more likely a Brexit deal the higher the pound.
Whether the Govt wins its Program motion tonight and keeps the WAB on course for Oct 31 may well depend on intense negotiations ongoing now between the Govt and Philip Hammond, David Gauke and Rory Stewart, I understand (1).
No. It depends how many read it and understand the utter shambles the WAB represents. The more who do so, the less likely this cobbled together exercise book of a Bill has of getting anywhere.
Why else did Boris try and ram it through unseen?
Because he's a bully who can't cope with arguments? Or dissension?
This is the contempt in which Labour is already held in the country. More election-dodging by Corbyn the Cowardly may yet push them into third place!
Catch-22. The worse they do in the polls, the less likely they are to call an election. The longer they delay an election, the worse they do in the polls. However, the idea that any other party, given the choice, would not seek to time an election to their own advantage is for the birds.
In the first six months since the start of the current tax year in April, borrowing has hit £40.3bn, 21.6% higher than the same period in 2018, when it was just £33.2bn, the ONS said....
Not really.
It's less than 2018/19 took off 2017/18, so it's 2 steps forward and one step back.
August 2019 borrowing was less than August 2018 and although student loans remain an issue for the exchequer, the rate of increase in September was also less than in previous months (and is subject to revision).
Whether the current position is "good enough" depends whether you think these are the sunlit uplands before a calamatious decline into recession, or the dark before the dawn.
Is Brexit all Ed Miliband's fault? His £3 labour leadership vote resulted in Corbyn being elected and any other Labour leader might campaigned enough to swing a few votes remains way.
Granted it's actually his brother's fault for not going against Gordon Brown but that's a step too far really.
All but three of them are now firmly behind Boris so why would I not be happy to see my party unite
Because the leader is a stain on humanity.
You have gone down in my estimation.
"a stain on humanity"
Because yes, Boris is up their with Pol Pot, Stalin, Hitler and Mao. Loss of perspective, much?
Perspective would suggest that stain on humanity covers much more than Pol Pot, Stalin, Hitler and Mao - I'd probably lump in the prick who constantly lets his dog shit on the entrance to my path.
Your pal Trump certainly qualifies. Britain Trump hasn't had such a run at the title yet, but give him time.
My pal Trump? Point to one post where I have ever said I supported him.
I've said before I couldn't vote for Hillary either - but even you couldn't be dumb enough to count that as my endorsement of the Pussy-grabber in Chief.
You've drunk the Boris-aid, BJ is up close and personal with Trump's perineum, and your version of Brexit promotes the whole of the UK to that level of intimacy.
Avert your eyes all you like but you own it.
Whatever. You still can't stand up your allegation.
This is the contempt in which Labour is already held in the country. More election-dodging by Corbyn the Cowardly may yet push them into third place!
Catch-22. The worse they do in the polls, the less likely they are to call an election. The longer they delay an election, the worse they do in the polls. However, the idea that any other party, given the choice, would not seek to time an election to their own advantage is for the birds.
Which is why an election is likely to be sooner rather than later. Three parties now believe that they will gain seats in an immediate GE; of course they could be wrong.
Just seen this quote on the Guardian's site: 'Britain will be “living a free country” in nine days if MPs vote for the bill, according to Mark Francois, '
What an utterly imbecilic comment ....
... 9 days time we will still be in the EU. It is 9 1/2 days (or 10 days essentially) before we are free.
I agree with you (and others) that come the GE it might not matter too much - if he has delivered Brexit - that Johnson missed his magic 31 Oct date. Nevertheless he has made such a song & dance about it that it just might. And given that resisting the timetable is the one big concrete thing the opposition can do right now to interfere with the victory lap, I think they must absolutely do it. I'll be sorely disappointed if they don't.
Is Brexit all Ed Miliband's fault? His £3 labour leadership vote resulted in Corbyn being elected and any other Labour leader might campaigned enough to swing a few votes remains way.
Granted it's actually his brother's fault for not going against Gordon Brown but that's a step too far really.
A butterfly flapped it’s wings in Queensland in 2009 and the irreversible chain of events was set in motion
This is the contempt in which Labour is already held in the country. More election-dodging by Corbyn the Cowardly may yet push them into third place!
How on earth can the opposition be at 22% in this utter horlicks
Labour mps looking at this poll need to act now, back the deal and motion, and then as we leave they can move towards their domestic agenda
It really is a no brainer but of course it would help if they could eject their leader
Polls should be treated with a truckload of salt, especially at this juncture.
Things can and will shift quickly in any direction.
NOM is still the favourite on Betfair exchange - maybe punters know more than the pollsters!
Yes but there is no visible trend towards labour. They have lost the leave vote and the remain vote has gone to the Lib Dems
There is no trend towards Labour for sure.
Think tactical voting will be at unprecedented levels at the next GE. The Tories could well win the national vote by 5% and yet be way short of a majority.
Can the rebel alliance beat the ever evil and powerful Empire? Time will tell as ever...
Crickey I actually agree with Mark Francois on something...
"One of the great pleasures when we leave the European Union is this idiot behind me is going to have to get a proper job," says Conservative MP Mark Francois, as a shouting protester heckles him while he speaks to BBC News.
"That's another great reason for passing this bill," the deputy chairman of the European Research Group adds.
eek said: "and when asked told her about the new Aldi where people had hoped to get jobs only to discover a team of Eastern Europeans were working there."
I went to a debate a while ago. John Mann MP was on the panel. He told of a example of a business in his constituency needing 100 new employee for an expansion. They sent a delegation to Poland and staffed their new depot entirely with Polish immigrants. The posts were not even advertised in his constituency.
Mann expalaned that this is why many working class people voted to leave the EU. Against free movement rules, not racist.
Some leavers are no doubt racist - but I think it unfair and incorrect to level this against the majority of leavers. Mann`s example is one that we all should be concerned about.
So why did the business decide to recruit from overseas? That's the interesting question.
If pharmacy is any guide it's because top management thought they could get away with paying lower wages. At least until the Poles discovered what was happening!
I think the value of the pound is also a factor. The higher the pound the greater the incentive to come here and, ironically, the more likely a Brexit deal the higher the pound.
Fundamentally its a cost/quality equation.
We have a minimum wage; Polish workers paid at the minimum wage are better than indigents at the same wage. That's the calculation business makes.
If business can't recruit Poles, it employs indigents who's output is less, or pays more for the same output. That is reflected in what that business produces, leading to inflation for domestic consumers. Which leads to reduced demand, which leads to job losses ....
1. I think the numbers may be just there for the deal in principle, but I don't think the programme motion will pass. The opposition parties will of course vote against it because they are opposition parties,. Those Labour MPs and ex-Tories sympathetic to the Boris deal in general won't necessarily be sympathetic to ramming the thing through without scrutiny. And Boris has done himself no favours with his shenanigans on Saturday evening, increasing the already considerable mistrust.
2. Of course enemies of Boris, which is most of parliament, won't be entirely dischuffed if he's forced to die in a ditch, which also won't help the timetable.
3. There will also be quite a lot of amendments, some of them (like the SNP's) purely to cause trouble, but also substantive amendments on points of detail and on the important issue of extension of the transition period tabled by MPs correctly doing their job. This is a further reason for thinking that it can't all be done in a couple of days.
4. So I now think the chance of leaving on October 31st, which a few days ago I thought looked quite possible, has receded into the distance. I've closed my position on this for a small loss.
5. At the same time, I don't think the deal is going to be rejected in the near future. I'm expecting the stasis to continue, with Boris boxed in on all sides, and Brexit continuing to be about to happen real soon now.
6. But as the detail comes more into focus, opposition to the deal (which really is worse than Theresa May's by any rational standard) will harden.
7. A GE early next year with Brexit still unresolved is my central forecast, but with oodles of uncertainty obv.
Just seen this quote on the Guardian's site: 'Britain will be “living a free country” in nine days if MPs vote for the bill, according to Mark Francois, '
What an utterly imbecilic comment ....
... 9 days time we will still be in the EU. It is 9 1/2 days (or 10 days essentially) before we are free.
Crickey I actually agree with Mark Francois on something...
"One of the great pleasures when we leave the European Union is this idiot behind me is going to have to get a proper job," says Conservative MP Mark Francois, as a shouting protester heckles him while he speaks to BBC News.
"That's another great reason for passing this bill," the deputy chairman of the European Research Group adds.
If a person can afford to spend their time heckling outside Parliament they clearly have enough money not to need a proper job.
Crickey I actually agree with Mark Francois on something...
"One of the great pleasures when we leave the European Union is this idiot behind me is going to have to get a proper job," says Conservative MP Mark Francois, as a shouting protester heckles him while he speaks to BBC News.
"That's another great reason for passing this bill," the deputy chairman of the European Research Group adds.
If a person can afford to spend their time heckling outside Parliament they clearly have enough money not to need a proper job.
Mr Stop Brexit is paid. He receives housing (a very very nice place in fact) and living expenses from a load of remain supporting donors.
Just seen this quote on the Guardian's site: 'Britain will be “living a free country” in nine days if MPs vote for the bill, according to Mark Francois, '
What an utterly imbecilic comment ....
... 9 days time we will still be in the EU. It is 9 1/2 days (or 10 days essentially) before we are free.
Always sovereign.
Absolutely. Sovereign in the same was as post-Brexit NI will be part of the UK's customs territory. 😂
Japanese interviewer: So you say Northern Ireland is trying to promote tourism, what attractions are there? Expert: There's a museum dedicated to the sinking of the Titanic
Crickey I actually agree with Mark Francois on something...
"One of the great pleasures when we leave the European Union is this idiot behind me is going to have to get a proper job," says Conservative MP Mark Francois, as a shouting protester heckles him while he speaks to BBC News.
"That's another great reason for passing this bill," the deputy chairman of the European Research Group adds.
If a person can afford to spend their time heckling outside Parliament they clearly have enough money not to need a proper job.
Reminds me of one time when English football "Supporters" rioted after an away match. Lots of people in the media were asking the next morning "How can these people afford to travel abroad?", not believing that most footbal thugs have jobs and can take annual leave.
Crickey I actually agree with Mark Francois on something...
"One of the great pleasures when we leave the European Union is this idiot behind me is going to have to get a proper job," says Conservative MP Mark Francois, as a shouting protester heckles him while he speaks to BBC News.
"That's another great reason for passing this bill," the deputy chairman of the European Research Group adds.
If a person can afford to spend their time heckling outside Parliament they clearly have enough money not to need a proper job.
Reminds me of one time when English football "Supporters" rioted after an away match. Lots of people in the media were asking the next morning "How can these people afford to travel abroad?", not believing that most footbal thugs have jobs and can take annual leave.
Mr Stop Brexit doesn't. He is a full time paid protester.
'Bullshit. You can suspect all the bullshit you want, that does not represent leavers.
If you're going to cast racist aspersions then how about rather than naming Midlands and Northern towns and cities then going vague you name names. There's dozens of leave voters here, if "every leaver" supports turfing out people who legally live here you shouldn't have any difficulty naming one here with that view.
Or you can have some decency to admit it was a vile nasty aspersion that has no grounding in reality.'
Hey guys. Long time lurker, first time poster.
I live in Yvette Cooper's constituency. There are many people in this neck of the woods who will be disconcerted when there are still foreign-born people here after Brexit. I was speaking to my window cleaner the other week - in his 50s, never, ever, voted until the referendum, recently joined the Brexit Party. Amongst a welter of eyebrow raising comments was his assertion that there should be no more funding for the NHS until all foreigners have left the UK post-Brexit.
That doesn't represent all leavers, I accept that, and certainly not on this rarefied forum. But there are plenty of those people out there.
Edit - I need to learn how block quotes work...
I'd be interested in your perception as to whether Yvette will survive in NP&C in the next General Election.
She had nearly 60 per cent of the vote in 2017, but the constituency was nearly 70 per cent leave.
I think she’ll hang on. Though Labour did lose a previously rock solid Labour council seat to a Lib Dem usurper this year in Knottingley (though avowedly anti-Brexit the Lib Dem guy was supported because he does a lot locally). There are very noisy pro-Brexit voices here, but I think many folk are quietly thinking voting leave was a mistake. BoJo’s not popular.
Japanese interviewer: So you say Northern Ireland is trying to promote tourism, what attractions are there? Expert: There's a museum dedicated to the sinking of the Titanic
Some expert. HYUFD did not manage to see more than a fraction of the tourist attractions and he spent a week driving round the place
All but three of them are now firmly behind Boris so why would I not be happy to see my party unite
Because the leader is a stain on humanity.
You have gone down in my estimation.
With the greatest respect that is not really my concern
On this forum you cannot please all the people all the time
Your conversion to the cause of the Borislamic State really has been something.
I blame the cruise. Perhaps cruise ships act as some kind of Leaverstan madrassas, radicalising the baby boomers amid the all you can eat buffets.
Most cruises explicitly ban any talk about Brexit - the cruise companies have got fed up with the fights it provokes.
I can't imagine there would be many Remainers on a cruise, or at least not enough to credibly hope to win a fight. Mind you, losing fights is the norm for us Remainers so perhaps they're willing to take a pasting in the name of the cause.
This is the contempt in which Labour is already held in the country. More election-dodging by Corbyn the Cowardly may yet push them into third place!
How on earth can the opposition be at 22% in this utter horlicks
Labour mps looking at this poll need to act now, back the deal and motion, and then as we leave they can move towards their domestic agenda
It really is a no brainer but of course it would help if they could eject their leader
Polls should be treated with a truckload of salt, especially at this juncture.
Things can and will shift quickly in any direction.
NOM is still the favourite on Betfair exchange - maybe punters know more than the pollsters!
Yes but there is no visible trend towards labour. They have lost the leave vote and the remain vote has gone to the Lib Dems
There is no trend towards Labour for sure.
Think tactical voting will be at unprecedented levels at the next GE. The Tories could well win the national vote by 5% and yet be way short of a majority.
Can the rebel alliance beat the ever evil and powerful Empire? Time will tell as ever...
Tactical voting will shift virtually no seats when the vote splits 40:20:20.....
(Coming late to the article, and if someone has made the same point, then well done)
What I find equally amazing, given the loss of the DUP, is how a party, with nominally only 288 MPs and 354 opposed is still in power.
Yes, some of the independents can probably be relied upon. Elphick in Dover, and probably about 12-15 of the 'Rebel' Conservatives, but this will still only leave them with (top) about 304 MPs.
Its a testament to how poor the 'rabble alliance' are that they can't agree a unified way forward. I'm firmly of the opinion that should Ed Miliband had found himself in this position in September 2019 (or even January 2019) he would be PM of a minority Labour administration now, proped up by LD and SNP support, and likely Brexit would be on the way to being cancelled.
Johnson isn't that good at running rings round his opponents. Just his opponents are so bad, they make the current government look 'okay'.
eek said: "and when asked told her about the new Aldi where people had hoped to get jobs only to discover a team of Eastern Europeans were working there."
I went to a debate a while ago. John Mann MP was on the panel. He told of a example of a business in his constituency needing 100 new employee for an expansion. They sent a delegation to Poland and staffed their new depot entirely with Polish immigrants. The posts were not even advertised in his constituency.
Mann expalaned that this is why many working class people voted to leave the EU. Against free movement rules, not racist.
Some leavers are no doubt racist - but I think it unfair and incorrect to level this against the majority of leavers. Mann`s example is one that we all should be concerned about.
So why did the business decide to recruit from overseas? That's the interesting question.
‘Cos Poles and the like are good workers, reliable. I’ve worked with them, they work like bastards. Too many of our own are not quite so enthused, unfortunately.
All but three of them are now firmly behind Boris so why would I not be happy to see my party unite
Because the leader is a stain on humanity.
You have gone down in my estimation.
With the greatest respect that is not really my concern
On this forum you cannot please all the people all the time
Your conversion to the cause of the Borislamic State really has been something.
I blame the cruise. Perhaps cruise ships act as some kind of Leaverstan madrassas, radicalising the baby boomers amid the all you can eat buffets.
Most cruises explicitly ban any talk about Brexit - the cruise companies have got fed up with the fights it provokes.
I can't imagine there would be many Remainers on a cruise, or at least not enough to credibly hope to win a fight. Mind you, losing fights is the norm for us Remainers so perhaps they're willing to take a pasting in the name of the cause.
I would have though Remainers were EXACTLY the people who go on cruises. All that disposable income. How many people from Hartlepool do you find on cruises?
'Bullshit. You can suspect all the bullshit you want, that does not represent leavers.
If you're going to cast racist aspersions then how about rather than naming Midlands and Northern towns and cities then going vague you name names. There's dozens of leave voters here, if "every leaver" supports turfing out people who legally live here you shouldn't have any difficulty naming one here with that view.
Or you can have some decency to admit it was a vile nasty aspersion that has no grounding in reality.'
Hey guys. Long time lurker, first time poster.
I live in Yvette Cooper's constituency. There are many people in this neck of the woods who will be disconcerted when there are still foreign-born people here after Brexit. I was speaking to my window cleaner the other week - in his 50s, never, ever, voted until the referendum, recently joined the Brexit Party. Amongst a welter of eyebrow raising comments was his assertion that there should be no more funding for the NHS until all foreigners have left the UK post-Brexit.
That doesn't represent all leavers, I accept that, and certainly not on this rarefied forum. But there are plenty of those people out there.
Edit - I need to learn how block quotes work...
I'd be interested in your perception as to whether Yvette will survive in NP&C in the next General Election.
She had nearly 60 per cent of the vote in 2017, but the constituency was nearly 70 per cent leave.
I think she’ll hang on. Though Labour did lose a previously rock solid Labour council seat to a Lib Dem usurper this year in Knottingley (though avowedly anti-Brexit the Lib Dem guy was supported because he does a lot locally). There are very noisy pro-Brexit voices here, but I think many folk are quietly thinking voting leave was a mistake. BoJo’s not popular.
For Yvette to lose someone else has to win. As neither the Tories nor LibDems look remotely plausible in her seat, then the question answers itself. She will win easily with protest votes pointlessly drifting to Brexit Party in fourth place.
(Coming late to the article, and if someone has made the same point, then well done)
What I find equally amazing, given the loss of the DUP, is how a party, with nominally only 288 MPs and 354 opposed is still in power.
Yes, some of the independents can probably be relied upon. Elphick in Dover, and probably about 12-15 of the 'Rebel' Conservatives, but this will still only leave them with (top) about 304 MPs.
Its a testament to how poor the 'rabble alliance' are that they can't agree a unified way forward. I'm firmly of the opinion that should Ed Miliband had found himself in this position in September 2019 (or even January 2019) he would be PM of a minority Labour administration now, proped up by LD and SNP support, and likely Brexit would be on the way to being cancelled.
Johnson isn't that good at running rings round his opponents. Just his opponents are so bad, they make the current government look 'okay'.
When we come down to things Corbyn always ends up being the issue.
See my comment earlier where I said that Brexit is all Ed Miliband's and his £3 vote fault.
(Coming late to the article, and if someone has made the same point, then well done)
What I find equally amazing, given the loss of the DUP, is how a party, with nominally only 288 MPs and 354 opposed is still in power.
Yes, some of the independents can probably be relied upon. Elphick in Dover, and probably about 12-15 of the 'Rebel' Conservatives, but this will still only leave them with (top) about 304 MPs.
Its a testament to how poor the 'rabble alliance' are that they can't agree a unified way forward. I'm firmly of the opinion that should Ed Miliband had found himself in this position in September 2019 (or even January 2019) he would be PM of a minority Labour administration now, proped up by LD and SNP support, and likely Brexit would be on the way to being cancelled.
Johnson isn't that good at running rings round his opponents. Just his opponents are so bad, they make the current government look 'okay'.
When we come down to things Corbyn always ends up being the issue.
See my comment earlier where I said that Brexit is all Ed Miliband's and his £3 vote fault.
Bit unfair since Ed campaigned in 2015 AGAINST holding a referendum. Not that he got much thanks from the Financial Times, The Independent and much else of what has become the Remain elite.
By my reckoning CU and ref2 go down, they will agree something on commons oversight if transition extension so its all down to the program motion. Will the labour waverers keep the timescale and will the DUP vote?
Well Jezza never read the first one and the new one he was already saying it was unacceptable evil Tory Brexit before the text of the deal had even been printed off.
Comments
Philip however wants to use the word racist as he tries to marginalise the issue.
Juncker afterall was in charge of negotiations with Cameron for his renegotiation that was such a dreadful flop. Maybe if he'd put a bit more time and energy and taken Britain more seriously five years ago he could have avoided Brexit. I know a lot of Brexit voters like myself who found the EU's rejection of Cameron's reasonable demands to be the final straw that switched us from Remain to Leave.
She had nearly 60 per cent of the vote in 2017, but the constituency was nearly 70 per cent leave.
The important point about a UK/EU FTA is that we start from a point of perfect alignment of rules/standards. That part of any FTA - agreeing who will change their standards and how it will be done - is much reduced in this situation.
What will take the time and is the big unknown are the rules on divergence from current standards and also on non tariff barriers.
Well I guess that sometimes people post something which is not necessarily intended to prevoke a response. Adding "Discuss" makes it explicit that the poster would be obliged if he/she received some feedback on the point made.
Trudeau is a PC-loving, virtue-signalling poseur. Discuss.
And Boris is the best one to take on Corbyn
The current "Deal" is totally batsh*t. @Mike in the thread header is right to bemoan the poor understanding of 200 years of Irish politics. If it is successful, the Deal will station customs officials from the EU in Northern Irish ports of entry, authorised to overrule local customs officials. I can tell you for certain that the DUP and their "no surrender" chums just simply won't be allowing that, whatever anyone's law might say. Sectarian emblems on lampposts aren't there for mere decoration.
As to whether you are right or I am right about the essential nature of a majority government with this Tory party and this leader, well I hope we don't get to find out.
PS: I guess you will not be rooting for them too hard in the GE, when it comes, since as I recall you have resigned in disgust (!) at the direction they're lunging in.
There are 3 points in your argument that you don't seem to have grasped so I will try to explain them again.
1) MPs are not delegates of their constituents nor delegates of the rosette they wore when elected.
2) MPs can still support and vote for a manifesto while no longer being a member of the party they were elected on. In fact that is what most of the MPs who have resigned their original party are doing you don't however seem to have noticed that.
Sadly the opposite also seems to have occurred in such a way that you have both not noticed and when pointed out explicitly stated that you don't care.
3) The Tory party are currently attempting to push through items well outside the commitments they made within the manifesto they were elected upon - yet you are happy for them to do so as you wear a blue rosette.
You seem to believe we vote for rosette delegates - we don't we vote for representatives. And personally it seems the people who are least fulfilling the role they were elected in 2017 are not those who left their old parties but those still wearing a No Deal is fine blue rosette.
I`ve been playing around with the Electoral Calculus GE Prediction thingy. Unfortunately it is difficult to get a result which implies LibDems getting more seats than Labour even if they get more votes. Unfortunately.
Stocky said:
eek said: "and when asked told her about the new Aldi where people had hoped to get jobs only to discover a team of Eastern Europeans were working there."
I went to a debate a while ago. John Mann MP was on the panel. He told of a example of a business in his constituency needing 100 new employee for an expansion. They sent a delegation to Poland and staffed their new depot entirely with Polish immigrants. The posts were not even advertised in his constituency.
Mann expalaned that this is why many working class people voted to leave the EU. Against free movement rules, not racist.
Some leavers are no doubt racist - but I think it unfair and incorrect to level this against the majority of leavers. Mann`s example is one that we all should be concerned about."
"So why did the business decide to recruit from overseas? That's the interesting question."
Cheaper obviously. Doesn`t mean that there shouldn`t be rules against it though.
Labour mps looking at this poll need to act now, back the deal and motion, and then as we leave they can move towards their domestic agenda
It really is a no brainer but of course it would help if they could eject their leader
Broadly speaking most of the things we like about EU membership are trade related, and most of what we dislike is the political side of the EU. EFTA would let us keep the former and dispense with the later. I think the vast majority of people could live with it, only the true Europhobes and Europhiles would be unhappy with a looser relationship with the EU.
The trouble is the whole referendum and Brexit process has pushed people towards taking extreme positions, rather than trying to find some common ground we could accept. I don't see any way out of this at the moment.
'Britain will be “living a free country” in nine days if MPs vote for the bill, according to Mark Francois, '
Pineapple on Pizza ought to be declared the national dish. Discuss.
But I`m a food slut. Love a Pizza Hut - their salad bar is lush.
1b. because they're also treating that as a good thing.
2. Oh yeah, they're a bunch of far left, jew hating fruit loops but I think that's already priced into the market.
I do not have a window into the minds of the loyalists but I agree that febrile does not begin to describe the situation.
May's deal addressed if not completely solved this issue but the DUP voted against.
What are the options now?
https://www.theguardian.com/business/2019/oct/22/borrowing-increase-chancellor-javid-budget-brexit-spending
Alongside a 5.4% rise in day-to-day government spending on public services for the year to date, the ONS said tax revenues rose by only 2.8%, pulled back by the biggest six-month fall in corporation tax since 2013 and a dip in fuel duty payments.
In the first six months since the start of the current tax year in April, borrowing has hit £40.3bn, 21.6% higher than the same period in 2018, when it was just £33.2bn, the ONS said....
Things can and will shift quickly in any direction.
NOM is still the favourite on Betfair exchange - maybe punters know more than the pollsters!
Only if you thought they were trying to stop Brexit altogether do their actions make any sense.
It's less than 2018/19 took off 2017/18, so it's 2 steps forward and one step back.
August 2019 borrowing was less than August 2018 and although student loans remain an issue for the exchequer, the rate of increase in September was also less than in previous months (and is subject to revision).
Whether the current position is "good enough" depends whether you think these are the sunlit uplands before a calamatious decline into recession, or the dark before the dawn.
Is Brexit all Ed Miliband's fault? His £3 labour leadership vote resulted in Corbyn being elected and any other Labour leader might campaigned enough to swing a few votes remains way.
Granted it's actually his brother's fault for not going against Gordon Brown but that's a step too far really.
... 9 days time we will still be in the EU. It is 9 1/2 days (or 10 days essentially) before we are free.
I agree with you (and others) that come the GE it might not matter too much - if he has delivered Brexit - that Johnson missed his magic 31 Oct date. Nevertheless he has made such a song & dance about it that it just might. And given that resisting the timetable is the one big concrete thing the opposition can do right now to interfere with the victory lap, I think they must absolutely do it. I'll be sorely disappointed if they don't.
Think tactical voting will be at unprecedented levels at the next GE. The Tories could well win the national vote by 5% and yet be way short of a majority.
Can the rebel alliance beat the ever evil and powerful Empire? Time will tell as ever...
"One of the great pleasures when we leave the European Union is this idiot behind me is going to have to get a proper job," says Conservative MP Mark Francois, as a shouting protester heckles him while he speaks to BBC News.
"That's another great reason for passing this bill," the deputy chairman of the European Research Group adds.
We have a minimum wage; Polish workers paid at the minimum wage are better than indigents at the same wage. That's the calculation business makes.
If business can't recruit Poles, it employs indigents who's output is less, or pays more for the same output. That is reflected in what that business produces, leading to inflation for domestic consumers. Which leads to reduced demand, which leads to job losses ....
1. I think the numbers may be just there for the deal in principle, but I don't think the programme motion will pass. The opposition parties will of course vote against it because they are opposition parties,. Those Labour MPs and ex-Tories sympathetic to the Boris deal in general won't necessarily be sympathetic to ramming the thing through without scrutiny. And Boris has done himself no favours with his shenanigans on Saturday evening, increasing the already considerable mistrust.
2. Of course enemies of Boris, which is most of parliament, won't be entirely dischuffed if he's forced to die in a ditch, which also won't help the timetable.
3. There will also be quite a lot of amendments, some of them (like the SNP's) purely to cause trouble, but also substantive amendments on points of detail and on the important issue of extension of the transition period tabled by MPs correctly doing their job. This is a further reason for thinking that it can't all be done in a couple of days.
4. So I now think the chance of leaving on October 31st, which a few days ago I thought looked quite possible, has receded into the distance. I've closed my position on this for a small loss.
5. At the same time, I don't think the deal is going to be rejected in the near future. I'm expecting the stasis to continue, with Boris boxed in on all sides, and Brexit continuing to be about to happen real soon now.
6. But as the detail comes more into focus, opposition to the deal (which really is worse than Theresa May's by any rational standard) will harden.
7. A GE early next year with Brexit still unresolved is my central forecast, but with oodles of uncertainty obv.
Yes, that`s my expectation too. Though I`d say GE next year at the earliest.
I don't see them winning many more seats this time around but I suspect they will lose fewer than a lot of people on here expect.
Expert: There's a museum dedicated to the sinking of the Titanic
https://twitter.com/brugesgroup/status/1186578077591187458?s=21
They are more British than anyone else on the planet
They will never bow to the Church of Rome or any of its proxies
That's it
Conservatives: 408
Labour: 152
Lib Dems: 33
SNP: 34
Green: 2
Brexit: 0
Tory majority 166.
What I find equally amazing, given the loss of the DUP, is how a party, with nominally only 288 MPs and 354 opposed is still in power.
Yes, some of the independents can probably be relied upon. Elphick in Dover, and probably about 12-15 of the 'Rebel' Conservatives, but this will still only leave them with (top) about 304 MPs.
Its a testament to how poor the 'rabble alliance' are that they can't agree a unified way forward. I'm firmly of the opinion that should Ed Miliband had found himself in this position in September 2019 (or even January 2019) he would be PM of a minority Labour administration now, proped up by LD and SNP support, and likely Brexit would be on the way to being cancelled.
Johnson isn't that good at running rings round his opponents. Just his opponents are so bad, they make the current government look 'okay'.
See my comment earlier where I said that Brexit is all Ed Miliband's and his £3 vote fault.
On social issues they are more or less American evangelicals (abortion etc).
So view "putting any sort of border in the Irish Sea" through those two prisms and tell me what the result is