There were I think three games this week, Man Ute makes four where it is claimed racist behavior has occurred. What is the answer? It has to be stamped out, individuals must be punished and failures by clubs stewards to deal with it when reported must also be punished.
CCTV, Lifetime Bans and absolute Zero Tolerance.
I think the fans should be punished more than the stewards.
If proven guilty I’d bang them up for a long time, the video I’ve watched showed YTFC fans remonstrating with the idiots and asking stewards to eject them. The danger of this is it being gamed by people for advantage. No idea what the answer is
T PS it is very easy indeed to sign up to get seats for the opposition. A few members of my family and I once signed up to Man Utd membership in order to get tickets to a Man Utd v Liverpool League Cup game on my brother's birthday to which it was impossible to get Away seats. Went to Old Trafford wearing a Liverpool football shirt under my jacket - steward saw my shirt and advised me to zip up my jacket and keep it zipped through the game - and not to cheer if we scored, which we didn't we lost 1-0 - we were unique probably in the stand not to cheer when Utd scored.
I’m a scouser that before going to Spain ended up in Somerset, there is no doubt that there are pockets of racism in Somerset but football has actually been a brilliant eye opener to many people’s views given how many ethnic minority players have played for them. I love the concept of community club and genuine local support. The best example to football is the Mersey side derby when there is no segregation and no problems.
You must have been away a while then, because the days of the friendly derby are long gone. Poisonous these days, which is a shame. (The lack of segregation back in the day was before all seater stadiums and in an era where derby tickets went on general sale or to voucher holders so it was easy for thousands of Evertonians to be on the Kop and vice versa. )
The behaviour of a fuckwit who has presided over the whole of the Commons being brought into disrepute. The damage this Parliament has done to the standing of our democratic systems will take decades to repair. And Bercow is one of the prime villains.
You know no-one would even know the name John Bercow if it wasn't for the referendum....
Simply not true. He has been a fuckwit all his life. People seem to have forgotten he was a nasty little piece of right wing shit when he was in the Monday Club and has always been a self serving little turd ever since.
I happen to think that the vast majority of his rulings over Brexit have been correct. I said the same about his decision today. It is not anything to do with his decision making that makes him a piece of dwarfish sputum, it is the way he always bigs himself up - often by taking advantage of his position to launch personal attacks on people.
His was hardly suited to be an MP. He is certainly utterly unsuited to be Speaker. The sooner he is consigned to history the better.
I think the term 'speaker' is probably ironic. The best speakers (Thomas/Boothroyd) have been the ones who have said the least; mostly because they have had the respect of the House and haven't needed to say much. Hoyle will be in the same mould.
If the consequences weren't so drastic it would be highly amusing for the programme motion to be voted down and the EU refuse an extension. Then we could watch the opposition shit bricks trying to ram it all through
VONC and Revoke might be done in a day
I was told that a VONC would take too long in the context of why Letwin's amendment was needed.
Let's see if that's still true on October 31st if we're headed for a No Deal crash-out
Which was my point when I was questioning why Letwin was even needed. It didn't go down well.
The analogy I'd use is if the ship I am on hits an iceberg it's got lifeboats I can escape on and I will certainly use them if it comes to that.
I'd still much rather avoid the iceberg though.
You should have believed in the boat more, and it would have been fine.
As much as giving parliament a say has caused trouble for the government (because none of them have been willing to propose something that would get through), it seems pretty rock solid a prediction than any point where parliament could be the decider in something later in the process but currently isn't in the bill, will be subject to a successful amendment.
If the consequences weren't so drastic it would be highly amusing for the programme motion to be voted down and the EU refuse an extension. Then we could watch the opposition shit bricks trying to ram it all through
VONC and Revoke might be done in a day
I was told that a VONC would take too long in the context of why Letwin's amendment was needed.
Let's see if that's still true on October 31st if we're headed for a No Deal crash-out
Which was my point when I was questioning why Letwin was even needed. It didn't go down well.
The analogy I'd use is if the ship I am on hits an iceberg it's got lifeboats I can escape on and I will certainly use them if it comes to that.
I'd still much rather avoid the iceberg though.
You should have believed in the boat more, and it would have been fine.
If the consequences weren't so drastic it would be highly amusing for the programme motion to be voted down and the EU refuse an extension. Then we could watch the opposition shit bricks trying to ram it all through
VONC and Revoke might be done in a day
I was told that a VONC would take too long in the context of why Letwin's amendment was needed.
Let's see if that's still true on October 31st if we're headed for a No Deal crash-out
Which was my point when I was questioning why Letwin was even needed. It didn't go down well.
The analogy I'd use is if the ship I am on hits an iceberg it's got lifeboats I can escape on and I will certainly use them if it comes to that.
I'd still much rather avoid the iceberg though.
You should have believed in the boat more, and it would have been fine.
The workers rights provisions in the WAIB are pathetic .
Any Labour MP voting for this as a way of guaranteeing rights is deluded .
Anything in particular?
Schedule 5 a 1b in the WAIB.
Essentially even if the minister can’t guarantee that rights won’t fall below E.U. standards he can still present the Bill to the House.
Because the level playing field in the WA is gone the insurance has completely disappeared. Any Labour MP voting for this deal should be ashamed .
That doesn't mean the bill will pass automatically - it's up for Parliament to decide by considering it and voting on it. Putting a limitation on what Parliament can and cannot debate is absurd, and can easily be repealed anyway.
The costs incurred (let alone the horrific death toll) as a result of the misuse and promotion of these drugs will exceed this every month. An absolute sweet heart deal that will undoubtedly ensure that Trump has no problem funding re-election.
Isn't that just the compensation for those two Ohio counties? Presumably many more will follow.
Incidentally, I am seeing more and more prescription opioid abuse here. Sadly it looks as once more we will copy the USA, 15 years behind.
Yes I had misread it and assumed it was some sort of global settlement. Charles put me right. I would agree about the risks of opioid abuse here. These things seem to be handed out like sweeties.
And who does the handing out? Are they not to be held responsible?
In the USA a lot of the opioids were from Pill Mill pain clinics, where for a $300 10 minute consultation you walk out with a prescription worth 10 times that.
There is a significant secondary market too, where pensioners get legitimate prescriptions, then resell the drugs to addicts.
Increasingly the market has shifted to illegal Chinese synthetic goods and Mexican heroin, sold via a Deliveroo style system. Just as I gamble without ever going in a betting shop, there is no need to find a pusher anymore.
The events in Sinaloa and County Lines here show where the money is.
Thanks. I was thinking of doctors prescribing opioids here. Is there much of an issue with that? Or are people buying this stuff online?
The behaviour of a fuckwit who has presided over the whole of the Commons being brought into disrepute. The damage this Parliament has done to the standing of our democratic systems will take decades to repair. And Bercow is one of the prime villains.
You know no-one would even know the name John Bercow if it wasn't for the referendum....
Simply not true. He has been a fuckwit all his life. People seem to have forgotten he was a nasty little piece of right wing shit when he was in the Monday Club and has always been a self serving little turd ever since.
I happen to think that the vast majority of his rulings over Brexit have been correct. I said the same about his decision today. It is not anything to do with his decision making that makes him a piece of dwarfish sputum, it is the way he always bigs himself up - often by taking advantage of his position to launch personal attacks on people.
His was hardly suited to be an MP. He is certainly utterly unsuited to be Speaker. The sooner he is consigned to history the better.
He's a bully. And he's a bully with a huge amount of power over people.
Good evening all. Good win for Sheff Utd. Arsenal going nowhere.
As for Brexit, this Remainer Parliament will not agree any arrangement that means we leave the EU unless the EU denies an extension at some point. Parliament will continue to find reasons not to vote for a deal and will use any device or tactic it can to thwart or delay Brexit. This Parliament has no intention of honouring the referendum result.
John Redwood is in a foul mood today in the chamber
Knows he is voting for BINO and consumed by self loathing.
I am not sure I have ever seen him smile. He seems a singularly humourless man.
He is one of the few politicians I have met who was utterly unpleasant IRL.
I don't think I've seen him smile either - like Anna Soubry, he always seems annoyed. But the prize for me was won by Douglas Hogg, for this exchange when we happened to be standing next to each other:
Me: "I met your new Labour opponent the other day, she seemed nice. I expect you'll have an amicable election." Hogg: "I have no idea who she is, but I am sure she is an UTTERLY INSIGNIFICANT WOMAN."
For a man with a safe seat he seemed needlessly worked up.
John Redwood is in a foul mood today in the chamber
Knows he is voting for BINO and consumed by self loathing.
I am not sure I have ever seen him smile. He seems a singularly humourless man.
He is one of the few politicians I have met who was utterly unpleasant IRL.
I don't think I've seen him smile either - like Anna Soubry, he always seems annoyed. But the prize for me was won by Douglas Hogg, for this exchange when we happened to be standing next to each other:
Me: "I met your new Labour opponent the other day, she seemed nice. I expect you'll have an amicable election." Hogg: "I have no idea who she is, but I am sure she is an UTTERLY INSIGNIFICANT WOMAN."
For a man with a safe seat he seemed needlessly worked up.
Hilarious. I never understand why people can't just be nice! It's not that hard. We should all be trying to inject a bit of kindness and good cheer into the world, God knows it needs it.
The behaviour of a fuckwit who has presided over the whole of the Commons being brought into disrepute. The damage this Parliament has done to the standing of our democratic systems will take decades to repair. And Bercow is one of the prime villains.
You know no-one would even know the name John Bercow if it wasn't for the referendum....
Simply not true. He has been a fuckwit all his life. People seem to have forgotten he was a nasty little piece of right wing shit when he was in the Monday Club and has always been a self serving little turd ever since.
I happen to think that the vast majority of his rulings over Brexit have been correct. I said the same about his decision today. It is not anything to do with his decision making that makes him a piece of dwarfish sputum, it is the way he always bigs himself up - often by taking advantage of his position to launch personal attacks on people.
His was hardly suited to be an MP. He is certainly utterly unsuited to be Speaker. The sooner he is consigned to history the better.
He's a bully. And he's a bully with a huge amount of power over people.
Never a good combination...
In a couple of weeks, he loses that power - and then the truth will be allowed to emerge.
John Redwood is in a foul mood today in the chamber
Of course, it was daytime. He should have been in his crypt.
Being a geek I have watched most of the days proceedings..I have seen him make at least 4 interventions all of them asking when the Govr is going to bring forward a FTA
Am I the only one who gets a whiff of anti-semitism with all the Bercow hate?
I suspect it's part of the story. I think it might be more because he used to be a proper right winger and has defected from the true path. But generally speaking if you want to be hated coming from some kind of minority group usually helps.
The behaviour of a fuckwit who has presided over the whole of the Commons being brought into disrepute. The damage this Parliament has done to the standing of our democratic systems will take decades to repair. And Bercow is one of the prime villains.
You know no-one would even know the name John Bercow if it wasn't for the referendum....
Simply not true. He has been a fuckwit all his life. People seem to have forgotten he was a nasty little piece of right wing shit when he was in the Monday Club and has always been a self serving little turd ever since.
I happen to think that the vast majority of his rulings over Brexit have been correct. I said the same about his decision today. It is not anything to do with his decision making that makes him a piece of dwarfish sputum, it is the way he always bigs himself up - often by taking advantage of his position to launch personal attacks on people.
His was hardly suited to be an MP. He is certainly utterly unsuited to be Speaker. The sooner he is consigned to history the better.
I think the term 'speaker' is probably ironic. The best speakers (Thomas/Boothroyd) have been the ones who have said the least; mostly because they have had the respect of the House and haven't needed to say much. Hoyle will be in the same mould.
The Speaker was the nominated spokesman of the house
The most appropriate comparable role is probably that of vorstandsvorsitzender
The behaviour of a fuckwit who has presided over the whole of the Commons being brought into disrepute. The damage this Parliament has done to the standing of our democratic systems will take decades to repair. And Bercow is one of the prime villains.
You know no-one would even know the name John Bercow if it wasn't for the referendum....
Simply not true. He has been a fuckwit all his life. People seem to have forgotten he was a nasty little piece of right wing shit when he was in the Monday Club and has always been a self serving little turd ever since.
I happen to think that the vast majority of his rulings over Brexit have been correct. I said the same about his decision today. It is not anything to do with his decision making that makes him a piece of dwarfish sputum, it is the way he always bigs himself up - often by taking advantage of his position to launch personal attacks on people.
His was hardly suited to be an MP. He is certainly utterly unsuited to be Speaker. The sooner he is consigned to history the better.
He's a bully. And he's a bully with a huge amount of power over people.
The behaviour of a fuckwit who has presided over the whole of the Commons being brought into disrepute. The damage this Parliament has done to the standing of our democratic systems will take decades to repair. And Bercow is one of the prime villains.
You know no-one would even know the name John Bercow if it wasn't for the referendum....
Simply not true. He has been a fuckwit all his life. People seem to have forgotten he was a nasty little piece of right wing shit when he was in the Monday Club and has always been a self serving little turd ever since.
I happen to think that the vast majority of his rulings over Brexit have been correct. I said the same about his decision today. It is not anything to do with his decision making that makes him a piece of dwarfish sputum, it is the way he always bigs himself up - often by taking advantage of his position to launch personal attacks on people.
His was hardly suited to be an MP. He is certainly utterly unsuited to be Speaker. The sooner he is consigned to history the better.
I think the term 'speaker' is probably ironic. The best speakers (Thomas/Boothroyd) have been the ones who have said the least; mostly because they have had the respect of the House and haven't needed to say much. Hoyle will be in the same mould.
The Speaker was the nominated spokesman of the house
The most appropriate comparable role is probably that of vorstandsvorsitzender
That would make the House of Commons the Board of Directors of the nation.
Am I the only one who gets a whiff of anti-semitism with all the Bercow hate?
I suspect it's part of the story. I think it might be more because he used to be a proper right winger and has defected from the true path. But generally speaking if you want to be hated coming from some kind of minority group usually helps.
Surely for there to be anti semitism you have to know he is Jewish. Which until OLBs posting I had no idea.
So no. There is no whiff at all.
As for the rightwing stuff. That is a reason to detest him, not a reason to mourn his move away.
Am I the only one who gets a whiff of anti-semitism with all the Bercow hate?
No, everybody knows that only the left are capable of antisemitism. When the right go on about George Soros and so on it's just "legitimate concerns" about "globalists".
What's to stop Parliament passing a future Benn Act to compel the government to request an extension if it was so concerned. This seems to be just like Article 50(3) so all the games we've had now could occur in the future it Parliament is so minded. And if it's not it's moot.
Hilarious. I never understand why people can't just be nice! It's not that hard. We should all be trying to inject a bit of kindness and good cheer into the world, God knows it needs it.
To be fair most MPs are perfectly nice, on all wings of Parliament. I have a host of pleasant encounters to remember, including this embarrassing moment when I was no longer an MP but running a charity stand at the Sinn Fein conference (the charity was trying out being represented at all the NI conferences). After a while I go on autopilot at these things and no longer really look at anyone.
Unknown man: Hello, how are you doing? Me: (absent-mindedly) Hello. May I give you a leaflet about our work? Woman beside him: Don't you know who this is? Me: Er... (Gosh, he does look familiar...oh, no, maybe it's...) Woman (furiously): It's Martin McGuinness, you're exhibiting at a Sinn Fein conference and you don't even know... Me: (blush) Of course. I'm so sorry! McGuinness: Ah, don't worry, man, ye canna remember everyone, I'm always having trouble like that...
Good evening all. Good win for Sheff Utd. Arsenal going nowhere.
As for Brexit, this Remainer Parliament will not agree any arrangement that means we leave the EU unless the EU denies an extension at some point. Parliament will continue to find reasons not to vote for a deal and will use any device or tactic it can to thwart or delay Brexit. This Parliament has no intention of honouring the referendum result.
People talk about "this parliament" as if it just emerged from the ether. It was elected after Theresa May said the opposition parties were trying to frustrate Brexit, and specifically said that Labour were threatening to vote against the final agreement. This parliament has a more recent mandate than the 2016 referendum.
Am I the only one who gets a whiff of anti-semitism with all the Bercow hate?
No, everybody knows that only the left are capable of antisemitism. When the right go on about George Soros and so on it's just "legitimate concerns" about "globalists".
The George Soro stuff definitely is e.g. The regular use of anti-Jewish tropes in memes etc.
Bercow "hatred" no. I have never ever seen anybody raise his Jewish background (I had no idea). It is purely Brexit related, just as the extremists on both sides post unpleasant stuff about insert well known politician be it JRM or Jess Philips.
John Redwood is in a foul mood today in the chamber
Knows he is voting for BINO and consumed by self loathing.
I am not sure I have ever seen him smile. He seems a singularly humourless man.
He is one of the few politicians I have met who was utterly unpleasant IRL.
I don't think I've seen him smile either - like Anna Soubry, he always seems annoyed. But the prize for me was won by Douglas Hogg, for this exchange when we happened to be standing next to each other:
Me: "I met your new Labour opponent the other day, she seemed nice. I expect you'll have an amicable election." Hogg: "I have no idea who she is, but I am sure she is an UTTERLY INSIGNIFICANT WOMAN."
For a man with a safe seat he seemed needlessly worked up.
Douglas has a good line in self-depreciation
(He’s insignificant therefore any opponent must be utterly insignificant)
But he’s very deaf and gets his volume wrong a lot
John Redwood is in a foul mood today in the chamber
Knows he is voting for BINO and consumed by self loathing.
I am not sure I have ever seen him smile. He seems a singularly humourless man.
He is one of the few politicians I have met who was utterly unpleasant IRL.
I don't think I've seen him smile either - like Anna Soubry, he always seems annoyed. But the prize for me was won by Douglas Hogg, for this exchange when we happened to be standing next to each other:
Me: "I met your new Labour opponent the other day, she seemed nice. I expect you'll have an amicable election." Hogg: "I have no idea who she is, but I am sure she is an UTTERLY INSIGNIFICANT WOMAN."
For a man with a safe seat he seemed needlessly worked up.
Douglas has a good line in self-depreciation
(He’s insignificant therefore any opponent must be utterly insignificant)
But he’s very deaf and gets his volume wrong a lot
What a conveniently charitable explanation vs the interpretation of the person who was actually being spoken to, a person who does not follow a policy of being rude about all their opponents like some MPs so not inclined to automatically think ill of them.
The behaviour of a fuckwit who has presided over the whole of the Commons being brought into disrepute. The damage this Parliament has done to the standing of our democratic systems will take decades to repair. And Bercow is one of the prime villains.
You know no-one would even know the name John Bercow if it wasn't for the referendum....
Simply not true. He has been a fuckwit all his life. People seem to have forgotten he was a nasty little piece of right wing shit when he was in the Monday Club and has always been a self serving little turd ever since.
I happen to think that the vast majority of his rulings over Brexit have been correct. I said the same about his decision today. It is not anything to do with his decision making that makes him a piece of dwarfish sputum, it is the way he always bigs himself up - often by taking advantage of his position to launch personal attacks on people.
His was hardly suited to be an MP. He is certainly utterly unsuited to be Speaker. The sooner he is consigned to history the better.
I think the term 'speaker' is probably ironic. The best speakers (Thomas/Boothroyd) have been the ones who have said the least; mostly because they have had the respect of the House and haven't needed to say much. Hoyle will be in the same mould.
The Speaker was the nominated spokesman of the house
The most appropriate comparable role is probably that of vorstandsvorsitzender
That would make the House of Commons the Board of Directors of the nation.
The Vorstand is the committee of managing directors - not quite the same as the board
Hilarious. I never understand why people can't just be nice! It's not that hard. We should all be trying to inject a bit of kindness and good cheer into the world, God knows it needs it.
To be fair most MPs are perfectly nice, on all wings of Parliament. I have a host of pleasant encounters to remember, including this embarrassing moment when I was no longer an MP but running a charity stand at the Sinn Fein conference (the charity was trying out being represented at all the NI conferences). After a while I go on autopilot at these things and no longer really look at anyone.
Unknown man: Hello, how are you doing? Me: (absent-mindedly) Hello. May I give you a leaflet about our work? Woman beside him: Don't you know who this is? Me: Er... (Gosh, he does look familiar...oh, no, maybe it's...) Woman (furiously): It's Martin McGuinness, you're exhibiting at a Sinn Fein conference and you don't even know... Me: (blush) Of course. I'm so sorry! McGuinness: Ah, don't worry, man, ye canna remember everyone, I'm always having trouble like that...
Hmm. Slightly different from a former squaddie of my acquaintance who found himself near to McGuinness at some event or other: ‘Get out of my way or I’ll have you shot.’ (This was during the IRA ceasefire of the early nineties.)
John Redwood is in a foul mood today in the chamber
Knows he is voting for BINO and consumed by self loathing.
I am not sure I have ever seen him smile. He seems a singularly humourless man.
He is one of the few politicians I have met who was utterly unpleasant IRL.
I don't think I've seen him smile either - like Anna Soubry, he always seems annoyed. But the prize for me was won by Douglas Hogg, for this exchange when we happened to be standing next to each other:
Me: "I met your new Labour opponent the other day, she seemed nice. I expect you'll have an amicable election." Hogg: "I have no idea who she is, but I am sure she is an UTTERLY INSIGNIFICANT WOMAN."
For a man with a safe seat he seemed needlessly worked up.
Douglas has a good line in self-depreciation
(He’s insignificant therefore any opponent must be utterly insignificant)
But he’s very deaf and gets his volume wrong a lot
What a conveniently charitable explanation vs the interpretation of the person who was actually being spoken to, a person who does not follow a policy of being rude about all their opponents like some MPs.
I’m fond of Douglas. Known him all my life. Which may colour my views
The last thing Parliament needs is a route map to dither and long delay. That is not a public service.
Disagree, for the sake of good governance there should always be an option to dither and delay unless absolutely unavoidable (continued government funding, incoming meteor impact, panzers rolling through Clacton etc).
Sometimes all the options turn out to be bad, or it's impossible to pass the good ones, and it's better to do nothing than do something disastrous.
They are testing that to destruction though. When given time they fill it. Boris only got something done when he could not wile away the time as well.
That was TMay not MPs. There have been a grand total of maybe 6 weeks in this whole thing bottlenecked on parliament, nearly all of it has been waiting for the government to give them something to vote on .
John Redwood is in a foul mood today in the chamber
Knows he is voting for BINO and consumed by self loathing.
I am not sure I have ever seen him smile. He seems a singularly humourless man.
He is one of the few politicians I have met who was utterly unpleasant IRL.
I don't think I've seen him smile either - like Anna Soubry, he always seems annoyed. But the prize for me was won by Douglas Hogg, for this exchange when we happened to be standing next to each other:
Me: "I met your new Labour opponent the other day, she seemed nice. I expect you'll have an amicable election." Hogg: "I have no idea who she is, but I am sure she is an UTTERLY INSIGNIFICANT WOMAN."
For a man with a safe seat he seemed needlessly worked up.
Douglas has a good line in self-depreciation
(He’s insignificant therefore any opponent must be utterly insignificant)
But he’s very deaf and gets his volume wrong a lot
What a conveniently charitable explanation vs the interpretation of the person who was actually being spoken to, a person who does not follow a policy of being rude about all their opponents like some MPs.
I’m fond of Douglas. Known him all my life. Which may colour my views
Sounds like an abnoxious arrogant pompous snob going by that tale.
Anyone who hasn't looked want to hazard a guess at who the most popular labour politician (note: not famous) is in the YouGov rankings?
Not famous meaning merely not in the Shadow Cabinet or genuinely someone not well known?
Um, I'm drawing a complete blank. I'd assume someone like Starmer as most popular but he's obviously famous, as would be a bizarre outside shot like David Miliband.
The last thing Parliament needs is a route map to dither and long delay. That is not a public service.
Disagree, for the sake of good governance there should always be an option to dither and delay unless absolutely unavoidable (continued government funding, incoming meteor impact, panzers rolling through Clacton etc).
Sometimes all the options turn out to be bad, or it's impossible to pass the good ones, and it's better to do nothing than do something disastrous.
They are testing that to destruction though. When given time they fill it. Boris only got something done when he could not wile away the time as well.
That was TMay not MPs. There have been a grand total of maybe 6 weeks in this whole thing bottlenecked on parliament, nearly all of it has been waiting for the government to give them something to vote on .
If you consider reflexively saying NO! to everything before it's even published not to be bottlenecking then sure.
It's easy to be quick if you don't need to think about what is proposed and are prepared to just immediately denounce it.
Which includes denouncing every single option proposed by MPs in indicative votes too not just the governments proposals.
Anyone who hasn't looked want to hazard a guess at who the most popular labour politician (note: not famous) is in the YouGov rankings?
Not famous meaning merely not in the Shadow Cabinet or genuinely someone not well known?
Um, I'm drawing a complete blank. I'd assume someone like Starmer as most popular but he's obviously famous, as would be a bizarre outside shot like David Miliband.
Does not famous there mean the person is not famous? I read it as meaning most popular, not the most famous. Which is why I went with Chaos with Ed Miliband.
Anyone who hasn't looked want to hazard a guess at who the most popular labour politician (note: not famous) is in the YouGov rankings?
Not famous meaning merely not in the Shadow Cabinet or genuinely someone not well known?
Um, I'm drawing a complete blank. I'd assume someone like Starmer as most popular but he's obviously famous, as would be a bizarre outside shot like David Miliband.
Sorry, I usually post from my phone so the grammar gets a bit wrong.
This is the most *popular* "Labour politician" according to YouGov. They also rank them by fame - he is not the most famous.
John Redwood is in a foul mood today in the chamber
Knows he is voting for BINO and consumed by self loathing.
I am not sure I have ever seen him smile. He seems a singularly humourless man.
He is one of the few politicians I have met who was utterly unpleasant IRL.
I don't think I've seen him smile either - like Anna Soubry, he always seems annoyed. But the prize for me was won by Douglas Hogg, for this exchange when we happened to be standing next to each other:
Me: "I met your new Labour opponent the other day, she seemed nice. I expect you'll have an amicable election." Hogg: "I have no idea who she is, but I am sure she is an UTTERLY INSIGNIFICANT WOMAN."
For a man with a safe seat he seemed needlessly worked up.
Douglas has a good line in self-depreciation
(He’s insignificant therefore any opponent must be utterly insignificant)
But he’s very deaf and gets his volume wrong a lot
What a conveniently charitable explanation vs the interpretation of the person who was actually being spoken to, a person who does not follow a policy of being rude about all their opponents like some MPs.
I’m fond of Douglas. Known him all my life. Which may colour my views
I've no idea if he's a nice chap or not, but it wasn't a very plausible explanation of that anecdote!
Knowing you are fond of him, and I know you've defended him on the expenses issue before, it wasn't you who made sure the summary of his wikipedia page was relatively kind?
he became one of the most prominent illustrations used by the media to portray the extent of the parliamentary expenses scandal, although it later emerged that Hogg had been encouraged by the House of Commons Fees Office (Independent Parliamentary Standards Authority's precursor) to submit equivalent en bloc expenses "so as to reduce admin"
Anyone who hasn't looked want to hazard a guess at who the most popular labour politician (note: not famous) is in the YouGov rankings?
Not famous meaning merely not in the Shadow Cabinet or genuinely someone not well known?
Um, I'm drawing a complete blank. I'd assume someone like Starmer as most popular but he's obviously famous, as would be a bizarre outside shot like David Miliband.
Sorry, I usually post from my phone so the grammar gets a bit wrong.
This is the most *popular* "Labour politician" according to YouGov. They also rank them by fame - he is not the most famous.
The answer is one Ed Balls.
Easier to be popular when you're more famous for being on Strictly than for screwing up policies.
John Redwood is in a foul mood today in the chamber
Knows he is voting for BINO and consumed by self loathing.
I am not sure I have ever seen him smile. He seems a singularly humourless man.
He is one of the few politicians I have met who was utterly unpleasant IRL.
I don't think I've seen him smile either - like Anna Soubry, he always seems annoyed. But the prize for me was won by Douglas Hogg, for this exchange when we happened to be standing next to each other:
Me: "I met your new Labour opponent the other day, she seemed nice. I expect you'll have an amicable election." Hogg: "I have no idea who she is, but I am sure she is an UTTERLY INSIGNIFICANT WOMAN."
For a man with a safe seat he seemed needlessly worked up.
Douglas has a good line in self-depreciation
(He’s insignificant therefore any opponent must be utterly insignificant)
But he’s very deaf and gets his volume wrong a lot
What a conveniently charitable explanation vs the interpretation of the person who was actually being spoken to, a person who does not follow a policy of being rude about all their opponents like some MPs.
I’m fond of Douglas. Known him all my life. Which may colour my views
I've no idea if he's a nice chap or not, but it wasn't a very plausible explanation of that anecdote!
Knowing you are fond of him, and I know you've defended him on the expenses issue before, it wasn't you who made sure the summary of his wikipedia page was relatively kind?
he became one of the most prominent illustrations used by the media to portray the extent of the parliamentary expenses scandal, although it later emerged that Hogg had been encouraged by the House of Commons Fees Office (Independent Parliamentary Standards Authority's precursor) to submit equivalent en bloc expenses "so as to reduce admin"
The old , "I was forced to claim for my duck house and myriad other fantasy expenses, paperclips , etc", I really did not stick my great snout deep in the trough and suck the public purse dry
John Redwood is in a foul mood today in the chamber
Knows he is voting for BINO and consumed by self loathing.
I am not sure I have ever seen him smile. He seems a singularly humourless man.
He is one of the few politicians I have met who was utterly unpleasant IRL.
I don't think I've seen him smile either - like Anna Soubry, he always seems annoyed. But the prize for me was won by Douglas Hogg, for this exchange when we happened to be standing next to each other:
Me: "I met your new Labour opponent the other day, she seemed nice. I expect you'll have an amicable election." Hogg: "I have no idea who she is, but I am sure she is an UTTERLY INSIGNIFICANT WOMAN."
For a man with a safe seat he seemed needlessly worked up.
Douglas has a good line in self-depreciation
(He’s insignificant therefore any opponent must be utterly insignificant)
But he’s very deaf and gets his volume wrong a lot
What a conveniently charitable explanation vs the interpretation of the person who was actually being spoken to, a person who does not follow a policy of being rude about all their opponents like some MPs.
I’m fond of Douglas. Known him all my life. Which may colour my views
I've no idea if he's a nice chap or not, but it wasn't a very plausible explanation of that anecdote!
Knowing you are fond of him, and I know you've defended him on the expenses issue before, it wasn't you who made sure the summary of his wikipedia page was relatively kind?
he became one of the most prominent illustrations used by the media to portray the extent of the parliamentary expenses scandal, although it later emerged that Hogg had been encouraged by the House of Commons Fees Office (Independent Parliamentary Standards Authority's precursor) to submit equivalent en bloc expenses "so as to reduce admin"
Boris Johnson is expected to abandon Brexit legislation in Parliament rather than accept a customs union or second referendum, rebel MPs were warned on Monday night.
Boris Johnson is expected to abandon Brexit legislation in Parliament rather than accept a customs union or second referendum, rebel MPs were warned on Monday night.
If you consider reflexively saying NO! to everything before it's even published not to be bottlenecking then sure.
It's easy to be quick if you don't need to think about what is proposed and are prepared to just immediately denounce it.
Which includes denouncing every single option proposed by MPs in indicative votes too not just the governments proposals.
The main opposition have been reflexively saying no to everything (actually that's not true, they've been having careful considered discussions about the best justification for saying no) but that's normal and traditional, and it's definitely not true of a majority in parliament.
Am I the only one who gets a whiff of anti-semitism with all the Bercow hate?
Yes.
I think Bercow is liked or hated for his own actions and nothing to do with his religion, heritage or race.
Only good guy in the cesspit, SNP MP's apart. So 36 out of over 600 decent people , rest a bunch of fannies.
This would be the good guy who was formally Committee Secretary of the Immigration and Repatriation Committee of the Monday Club and stood for the National Executive on a policy of assisted repatriation.
Basically his politics were aligned with that of the BNP.
And yet apparently his religion is the reason we are all so hard on him.
Anyone who hasn't looked want to hazard a guess at who the most popular labour politician (note: not famous) is in the YouGov rankings?
Not famous meaning merely not in the Shadow Cabinet or genuinely someone not well known?
Um, I'm drawing a complete blank. I'd assume someone like Starmer as most popular but he's obviously famous, as would be a bizarre outside shot like David Miliband.
Sorry, I usually post from my phone so the grammar gets a bit wrong.
This is the most *popular* "Labour politician" according to YouGov. They also rank them by fame - he is not the most famous.
The answer is one Ed Balls.
Ed Balls is a human being. It comes over in almost everything he does. It is a great shame there are not more like him both in the Labour party and in Parliament as a whole.
He is one Labour MP I would be very glad to see get re-elected if a seat became available.
Boris Johnson is expected to abandon Brexit legislation in Parliament rather than accept a customs union or second referendum, rebel MPs were warned on Monday night.
Of course he would, he'd lose the votes to get it through if the first succeeded (as many who back it won't back the bill), and would not dare a referendum if the second succeeded.
If you consider reflexively saying NO! to everything before it's even published not to be bottlenecking then sure.
It's easy to be quick if you don't need to think about what is proposed and are prepared to just immediately denounce it.
Which includes denouncing every single option proposed by MPs in indicative votes too not just the governments proposals.
The main opposition have been reflexively saying no to everything (actually that's not true, they've been having careful considered discussions about the best justification for saying no) but that's normal and traditional, and it's definitely not true of a majority in parliament.
It's true of the main opposition as you said. Plus the third, fourth and fifth largest opposition parties (including the governments confidence and supply "partners"). Grieve and a few other former Tories have said they wouldn't accept any form of Brexit.
So that just leaves current Tories and a few independents basically left.
unbelievable , did nothing and then did not even let family know and finally tell them via parliament, bunch of useless gits, kowtowing to Washington.
Or to you know ... international law. Bloody useless gits observing the Vienna Convention, why didn't they just whip up a mob instead?
Would it have been too much for someone in government to let the family know privately, explain the reasons why, just show some basic human decency and kindness?
There is quite a gap between doing nothing and whipping up a mob. Most people are able to behave in that gap like decent human beings with a bit of empathy for those suffering one of the worst losses that can ever befall parents.
unbelievable , did nothing and then did not even let family know and finally tell them via parliament, bunch of useless gits, kowtowing to Washington.
Or to you know ... international law. Bloody useless gits observing the Vienna Convention, why didn't they just whip up a mob instead?
Would it have been too much for someone in government to let the family know privately, explain the reasons why, just show some basic human decency and kindness?
There is quite a gap between doing nothing and whipping up a mob. Most people are able to behave in that gap like decent human beings with a bit of empathy for those suffering one of the worst losses that can ever befall parents.
Empathy absolutely. And yes if I was making the decision I'd think best the family hear it directly ... after it's done. I don't see any empathetic reason to say beforehand. Worst case it encourages vigilantism, best case it causes more anguish and frustration to be left impotent while it's done.
If you consider reflexively saying NO! to everything before it's even published not to be bottlenecking then sure.
It's easy to be quick if you don't need to think about what is proposed and are prepared to just immediately denounce it.
Which includes denouncing every single option proposed by MPs in indicative votes too not just the governments proposals.
The main opposition have been reflexively saying no to everything (actually that's not true, they've been having careful considered discussions about the best justification for saying no) but that's normal and traditional, and it's definitely not true of a majority in parliament.
It's true of the main opposition as you said. Plus the third, fourth and fifth largest opposition parties (including the governments confidence and supply "partners"). Grieve and a few other former Tories have said they wouldn't accept any form of Brexit.
So that just leaves current Tories and a few independents basically left.
No, you could almost definitely have passed softer PD + referendum if the government had whipped for it, and you can probably also pass border-in-Irish-sea, as we're about to see. And that's without the government really negotiating with anyone except its own party and the DUP.
It's true that none of the indicative votes passed but generally you don't pass things in the British system on free votes. You pass things by the government working out a coalition (usually as a stable majority but not always) then trading, cajoling, bribing and blackmailing it to a majority vote. Where TMay got stuck was that her internal position was too weak to either take her own party fully with her or look outside her coalition.
Hilarious. I never understand why people can't just be nice! It's not that hard. We should all be trying to inject a bit of kindness and good cheer into the world, God knows it needs it.
To be fair most MPs are perfectly nice, on all wings of Parliament. I have a host of pleasant encounters to remember, including this embarrassing moment when I was no longer an MP but running a charity stand at the Sinn Fein conference (the charity was trying out being represented at all the NI conferences). After a while I go on autopilot at these things and no longer really look at anyone.
Unknown man: Hello, how are you doing? Me: (absent-mindedly) Hello. May I give you a leaflet about our work? Woman beside him: Don't you know who this is? Me: Er... (Gosh, he does look familiar...oh, no, maybe it's...) Woman (furiously): It's Martin McGuinness, you're exhibiting at a Sinn Fein conference and you don't even know... Me: (blush) Of course. I'm so sorry! McGuinness: Ah, don't worry, man, ye canna remember everyone, I'm always having trouble like that...
Surely he could have found someone to tip you off twenty minutes beforehand with a codeword?
Comments
https://twitter.com/hilarybennmp/status/1186373549025615878
https://parliamentlive.tv/event/index/d0537ce3-6000-4751-b120-360a2cf3da88?in=15:51:39&out=15:58:32
We'll have had a general election and a new government by December 2020 anyway.
Essentially even if the minister can’t guarantee that rights won’t fall below E.U. standards he can still present the Bill to the House.
Because the level playing field in the WA is gone the insurance has completely disappeared. Any Labour MP voting for this deal should be ashamed .
Perhaps Liverpool's mistake was to play in Spurs kit...
Never a good combination...
Even I...a remain muncher..I would probably get Brexit done, it it took the spectre of no deal away.....
As for Brexit, this Remainer Parliament will not agree any arrangement that means we leave the EU unless the EU denies an extension at some point. Parliament will continue to find reasons not to vote for a deal and will use any device or tactic it can to thwart or delay Brexit. This Parliament has no intention of honouring the referendum result.
What a bottomless crock of shite Brexit has turned out to be!
Me: "I met your new Labour opponent the other day, she seemed nice. I expect you'll have an amicable election."
Hogg: "I have no idea who she is, but I am sure she is an UTTERLY INSIGNIFICANT WOMAN."
For a man with a safe seat he seemed needlessly worked up.
Legislate on this point - and you must then accept whatever shit the EU flings at you in bad faith.
I judge him only on his performance in the chair and his behaviour more generally.
What more do you expect?
Why fear Parliament and the people who elect it taking control?
The most appropriate comparable role is probably that of vorstandsvorsitzender
So no. There is no whiff at all.
As for the rightwing stuff. That is a reason to detest him, not a reason to mourn his move away.
Unknown man: Hello, how are you doing?
Me: (absent-mindedly) Hello. May I give you a leaflet about our work?
Woman beside him: Don't you know who this is?
Me: Er... (Gosh, he does look familiar...oh, no, maybe it's...)
Woman (furiously): It's Martin McGuinness, you're exhibiting at a Sinn Fein conference and you don't even know...
Me: (blush) Of course. I'm so sorry!
McGuinness: Ah, don't worry, man, ye canna remember everyone, I'm always having trouble like that...
I think Bercow is liked or hated for his own actions and nothing to do with his religion, heritage or race.
https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=4xr9-CkZZRk
Bercow "hatred" no. I have never ever seen anybody raise his Jewish background (I had no idea). It is purely Brexit related, just as the extremists on both sides post unpleasant stuff about insert well known politician be it JRM or Jess Philips.
(He’s insignificant therefore any opponent must be utterly insignificant)
But he’s very deaf and gets his volume wrong a lot
Um, I'm drawing a complete blank. I'd assume someone like Starmer as most popular but he's obviously famous, as would be a bizarre outside shot like David Miliband.
It's easy to be quick if you don't need to think about what is proposed and are prepared to just immediately denounce it.
Which includes denouncing every single option proposed by MPs in indicative votes too not just the governments proposals.
Being a minority doesn't preclude someone from being a massive ****.
This is the most *popular* "Labour politician" according to YouGov. They also rank them by fame - he is not the most famous.
The answer is one Ed Balls.
Knowing you are fond of him, and I know you've defended him on the expenses issue before, it wasn't you who made sure the summary of his wikipedia page was relatively kind?
he became one of the most prominent illustrations used by the media to portray the extent of the parliamentary expenses scandal, although it later emerged that Hogg had been encouraged by the House of Commons Fees Office (Independent Parliamentary Standards Authority's precursor) to submit equivalent en bloc expenses "so as to reduce admin"
https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Douglas_Hogg
https://www.bbc.com/news/uk-england-northamptonshire-50129077
https://www.telegraph.co.uk/politics/2019/10/21/boris-johnson-could-scrap-brexit-deal-john-bercow-blocks-vote/
Basically his politics were aligned with that of the BNP.
And yet apparently his religion is the reason we are all so hard on him.
He is one Labour MP I would be very glad to see get re-elected if a seat became available.
So that just leaves current Tories and a few independents basically left.
There is quite a gap between doing nothing and whipping up a mob. Most people are able to behave in that gap like decent human beings with a bit of empathy for those suffering one of the worst losses that can ever befall parents.
It's true that none of the indicative votes passed but generally you don't pass things in the British system on free votes. You pass things by the government working out a coalition (usually as a stable majority but not always) then trading, cajoling, bribing and blackmailing it to a majority vote. Where TMay got stuck was that her internal position was too weak to either take her own party fully with her or look outside her coalition.