Drugs policy is reserved to Westminster. It is entirely typical of the SNP to have liberal policies on the things they don't control but to have authoritarian policies on the things they do.
BBC News reports the Kurds have agreed an alliance with the Syrian Government against the Turks and Syrian government forces are now heading for Northern Syria
Your man Trump is a disaster of untold dimensions
Did Trump invade Iraq? No he opposed the war.
Did Trump back rebel forces against Assad in Syria? No.
Trump is just doing what the left wanted the USA to do a decade ago and withdrawing US troops from the Middle East
You are just as bad as Trump but that does not surprise me.
Acting as his apologist is consistent with your attitudes
The main story on the BBC is that US forces are in retreat in the face of advancing Turkish forces.
That would be Turkey, NATO ally.
Allegedly Syria has agreed to assist the Kurds fight off Turkey.
Which I assume means Russia is on board
This is a complete disaster . Trumps action is one of the worst in recent history , utterly despicable and a shameful betrayal of the Kurds who have been instrumental in defeating ISIS.
GOP: hang your heads in utter shame.
I’ve been ranting about this for days. It might well be the end of Trump, even as he survives everything else.
He has brought shame on the American military, and dishonored America itself, his patriotic base will hate this.
They won't , they don't want any more body bags of American servicemen coming from the Middle East and given the British have withdrawn forces from Iraq and Syria we can hardly criticise
Dear me is there anything Trump could do that you’d disagree with . Your attempts to spin this are now embarrassing.
HY passed Embarrassment Checkpoint a long way back.
BBC News reports the Kurds have agreed an alliance with the Syrian Government against the Turks and Syrian government forces are now heading for Northern Syria
Your man Trump is a disaster of untold dimensions
Did Trump invade Iraq? No, he opposed the war.
Did Trump back rebel forces against Assad in Syria? No.
Trump is just doing what the left wanted the USA to do a decade ago and withdrawing US troops from the Middle East
58% of US voters back Trump's statement 'It is time for America to withdraw from endless wars, many of them tribal' and 'only fight where it is to our benefit' just 20% disagree.
69% of Republicans and even 55% of Democrats and 50% of Independents agree with Trump's statement according to the poll past week.
BBC News reports the Kurds have agreed an alliance with the Syrian Government against the Turks and Syrian government forces are now heading for Northern Syria
Your man Trump is a disaster of untold dimensions
Did Trump invade Iraq? No, he opposed the war.
Did Trump back rebel forces against Assad in Syria? No.
Trump is just doing what the left wanted the USA to do a decade ago and withdrawing US troops from the Middle East
And do you ever stop to even consider if that was a good thing to do in this situation or not? Rather than a political game about who said what when about a general position about intervention?
Obviously matters can be very complicated, and its why I am genuinely curious what policy benefits Trump expected for the United States through his action, and if he is happy with the outcome. Clearly I do not like Trump, but I am trying to be objective and to understand what he hoped to gain from this. If it was a cold, even brutal decision but in a ruthless way a practical benefit to his nation I can understand that, even if I do not approve of that decision. But I would like to understand it, and not see the question avoided because of either like or dislike of the man.
But to think the matter can just be covered by consideration of comments made a decade ago, even though repeated since, as if that absolves any need to reflect any further? Not for the first time I struggle to even comprehend why that is a defence.
Thanks to Cyclefree for an interesting expose - I must admit I was barely aware of the enquiry, even though I'm probably more than averagely interested in news, so the police may well have got away with downplaying it.
On another subject, is there anyone on the right here who might join me in feeling that radical changes to voting access - whether denying votes to people without photo ID or awarding votes to lots of additional foreign residents - is not what we need right now? We've had one of the most divisive periods in British history, with the unwritten Constitution tested to its absolute limits. Wouldn't a bit of stability in the very basic element of democracy - the voting system - be a good idea? We could come back to these proposals in a few years when tempers have cooled.
Anyhoo...it's gone 6am in Tokyo and GBP has begun to rise, going up at about a third of a cent a hour. I'll see if it keeps going until about 2am and if it is, I'll start offloading Euros.
If there is anybody clever on PB who knows what GBP is going to do over the next 24 hrs, please let me know.
Essentially the right to vote is the highest responsibility any citizen has in a society
It is jealously guarded because it allows an active voice in the future direction of that society. Clearly over time we have rightly understood that the franchise should be extended, from landowners to all adult men to all adults over 18.
The right to vote derives from a commitment to belong to and participate in that society and to give its wellbeing priority over any other. This is based on citizenship AND residency @edmundintokyo - although you may be a UK citizen, if you have been absent for an extended period of time you shouldn’t get to participate in day to day government (although there’s a case that you should be allowed to vote in referendums).
If someone is resident in the UK but has not opted to become a citizen then they implicitly have a higher loyalty to another entity and hence they can’t be “trusted” with setting the direction of the U.K. This is a choice they have - as a US citizen my wife doesn’t have the right to vote despite being here nearly 15 years. This is because in her mind she will always be an American not a Brit.
Hope that helps explain why it matters.
(Edit: of course in the case of the Irish and some other Commonwealth countries the U.K. has extended voting rights to them. That is a choice that Westminster has made in behalf of the demos)
With the current voting system most votes are worthless if that’s not changed this principled view of democracy is bollocks. It’s like telling people that we are taking back control from the EU it’s crap, your vote is worth nothing unless you live in one of a small minority of constituencies. This parading of the right to vote as some wonderful right is just crap, your vote doesn’t matter.
You vote for a local representative for your community not for a government
BBC News reports the Kurds have agreed an alliance with the Syrian Government against the Turks and Syrian government forces are now heading for Northern Syria
Your man Trump is a disaster of untold dimensions
Did Trump invade Iraq? No, he opposed the war.
Did Trump back rebel forces against Assad in Syria? No.
Trump is just doing what the left wanted the USA to do a decade ago and withdrawing US troops from the Middle East
He may have but does he not feel he has any responsibility to sort out the shit he leaves behind? The answer is no,the world will judge him the US are too busy watching sports UT. to give a flying fuck.
Essentially the right to vote is the highest responsibility any citizen has in a society
It is jealously guarded because it allows an active voice in the future direction of that society. Clearly over time we have rightly understood that the franchise should be extended, from landowners to all adult men to all adults over 18.
The right to vote derives from a commitment to belong to and participate in that society and to give its wellbeing priority over any other. This is based on citizenship AND residency @edmundintokyo - although you may be a UK citizen, if you have been absent for an extended period of time you shouldn’t get to participate in day to day government (although there’s a case that you should be allowed to vote in referendums).
If someone is resident in the UK but has not opted to become a citizen then they implicitly have a higher loyalty to another entity and hence they can’t be “trusted” with setting the direction of the U.K. This is a choice they have - as a US citizen my wife doesn’t have the right to vote despite being here nearly 15 years. This is because in her mind she will always be an American not a Brit.
Hope that helps explain why it matters.
(Edit: of course in the case of the Irish and some other Commonwealth countries the U.K. has extended voting rights to them. That is a choice that Westminster has made in behalf of the demos)
With the current voting system most votes are worthless if that’s not changed this principled view of democracy is bollocks. It’s like telling people that we are taking back control from the EU it’s crap, your vote is worth nothing unless you live in one of a small minority of constituencies. This parading of the right to vote as some wonderful right is just crap, your vote doesn’t matter.
You vote for a local representative for your community not for a government
58% of US voters back Trump's statement 'It is time for America to withdraw from endless wars, many of them tribal' and 'only fight where it is to our benefit' just 20% disagree.
69% of Republicans and even 55% of Democrats and 50% of Independents agree with Trump's statement according to the poll past week.
"We are now standing with our chests bare to face the Turkish knives."
Heartbreaking.
Also an exceptionally well-written statement of their position.
It is.
I was struck by how his comments echo this of Buttigieg this weekend: We, however, are not asking for American soldiers to be in combat. We know that the United States is not the world police. But we do want the United States to acknowledge its important role in achieving a political solution for Syria. We are sure that Washington has sufficient leverage to mediate a sustainable peace between us and Turkey....
Buttigieg on CNN: Putting an end to endless war doesn't mean ending American engagement around the world,“ “Often, it means making sure we do our part to stabilize or help keep the peace, so that full-blown conflicts don't break out. Look at what's happened here. This isn't even a strategy or a policy. It is the president systematically destroying American alliances and American values. And that makes America worse off.“
Meanwhile Trump congratulates himself for being “very smart”.
It is saddening, what America has become, under Trump. This is not the proud warrior nation, free and brave, which stands by its allies.
Most Americans will be repelled by Trump’s behavior. He will either be impeached or he will lose badly in 2020. His Syria decision was an epochal error.
The main story on the BBC is that US forces are in retreat in the face of advancing Turkish forces.
That would be Turkey, NATO ally.
Allegedly Syria has agreed to assist the Kurds fight off Turkey.
Which I assume means Russia is on board
This is a complete disaster . Trumps action is one of the worst in recent history , utterly despicable and a shameful betrayal of the Kurds who have been instrumental in defeating ISIS.
GOP: hang your heads in utter shame.
I’ve been ranting about this for days. It might well be the end of Trump, even as he survives everything else.
He has brought shame on the American military, and dishonored America itself, his patriotic base will hate this.
They won't , they don't want any more body bags of American servicemen coming from the Middle East and given the British have withdrawn forces from Iraq and Syria we can hardly criticise
Dear me is there anything Trump could do that you’d disagree with . Your attempts to spin this are now embarrassing.
No, who are embarrassing are the hypocritical left who a decade ago attacked Bush for invading the Middle East and are now attacking Trump for withdrawing from the Middle East
Can anybody explain why the hong kong protestors smash up the metro stations?
Because they are seen as symbols of the government. Private property is very deliberately not being targeted.
The article linked by another poster does a good job explaining.
I only asked, because on the surface smashing up the public transportation system so people can't go about their everyday lives isn't normally a great way of getting the whole of society on your side....see XR blocking roads that mean people can't get to hospitals etc.
If someone is resident in the UK but has not opted to become a citizen then they implicitly have a higher loyalty to another entity and hence they can’t be “trusted” with setting the direction of the U.K.
This seems to be where the logic fails: any dual national, on the balance of probabilities, has a higher loyalty to one of their countries. But in any case it is not clear why multiple loyalties means one cannot be trusted, unless we accept that foreigners are bad to begin with. Finally, the critics seem to be correct that it is a policy to skew the electorate for political reasons.
I hesitated over the word “trusted” because I thought it would be misunderstood as you have
The point is that if you are a citizen and resident you are part of the demos.
If you are a citizen but not resident you forfeit your right to vote for a local representative (but should be able to vote on matters of principle)
If you are resident but not a citizen you are not a member of the demos
58% of US voters back Trump's statement 'It is time for America to withdraw from endless wars, many of them tribal' and 'only fight where it is to our benefit' just 20% disagree.
69% of Republicans and even 55% of Democrats and 50% of Independents agree with Trump's statement according to the poll past week.
58% of US voters back Trump's statement 'It is time for America to withdraw from endless wars, many of them tribal' and 'only fight where it is to our benefit' just 20% disagree.
69% of Republicans and even 55% of Democrats and 50% of Independents agree with Trump's statement according to the poll past week.
You are confusing a desire to keep out of wars to walking away leaving a powder keg which has just exploded. There is not one good word for Trump, apart from yourself, on this forum
I despair tonight for so many, especially those in the middle east
Our best friend, of course.
No friend of mine.
No, he is a revolting man: a corrupt liar and a racist who happily sided with dictators and abandon America’s allies to genocide, but the Tories have decided to hug him close and covet his friendship. It’s a glorious Brexit dividend.
It is saddening, what America has become, under Trump. This is not the proud warrior nation, free and brave, which stands by its allies.
Most Americans will be repelled by Trump’s behavior. He will either be impeached or he will lose badly in 2020. His Syria decision was an epochal error.
Wrong.
58% of American voters back Trump's position, they are fed up of endless wars and the US always having to take the body bags and pay the defence bills.
58% of US voters back Trump's statement 'It is time for America to withdraw from endless wars, many of them tribal' and 'only fight where it is to our benefit' just 20% disagree.
69% of Republicans and even 55% of Democrats and 50% of Independents agree with Trump's statement according to the poll past week.
I despair tonight for so many, especially those in the middle east
Our best friend, of course.
No friend of mine.
No, he is a revolting man: a corrupt liar and a racist who happily sided with dictators and abandon America’s allies to genocide, but the Tories have decided to hug him close and covet his friendship. It’s a glorious Brexit dividend.
58% of US voters back Trump's statement 'It is time for America to withdraw from endless wars, many of them tribal' and 'only fight where it is to our benefit' just 20% disagree.
69% of Republicans and even 55% of Democrats and 50% of Independents agree with Trump's statement according to the poll past week.
Thanks to Cyclefree for an interesting expose - I must admit I was barely aware of the enquiry, even though I'm probably more than averagely interested in news, so the police may well have got away with downplaying it.
On another subject, is there anyone on the right here who might join me in feeling that radical changes to voting access - whether denying votes to people without photo ID or awarding votes to lots of additional foreign residents - is not what we need right now? We've had one of the most divisive periods in British history, with the unwritten Constitution tested to its absolute limits. Wouldn't a bit of stability in the very basic element of democracy - the voting system - be a good idea? We could come back to these proposals in a few years when tempers have cooled.
You mean you want to put off the checking of voters right to vote at polling stations.. That's really democratic.
What you really mean is that you think its a bad idea as it will affect Labour a lot more than other parties.
Bad night for Orban in the Hungarian local elections. Fidedigna have lost control of Budapest and several other major cities for the first time since 2010.
The main story on the BBC is that US forces are in retreat in the face of advancing Turkish forces.
That would be Turkey, NATO ally.
Allegedly Syria has agreed to assist the Kurds fight off Turkey.
Which I assume means Russia is on board
This is a complete disaster . Trumps action is one of the worst in recent history , utterly despicable and a shameful betrayal of the Kurds who have been instrumental in defeating ISIS.
GOP: hang your heads in utter shame.
I’ve been ranting about this for days. It might well be the end of Trump, even as he survives everything else.
He has brought shame on the American military, and dishonored America itself, his patriotic base will hate this.
They won't , they don't want any more body bags of American servicemen coming from the Middle East and given the British have withdrawn forces from Iraq and Syria we can hardly criticise
Dear me is there anything Trump could do that you’d disagree with . Your attempts to spin this are now embarrassing.
No, who are embarrassing are the hypocritical left who a decade ago attacked Bush for invading the Middle East and are now attacking Trump for withdrawing from the Middle East
BBC News reports the Kurds have agreed an alliance with the Syrian Government against the Turks and Syrian government forces are now heading for Northern Syria
Your man Trump is a disaster of untold dimensions
Did Trump invade Iraq? No, he opposed the war.
Did Trump back rebel forces against Assad in Syria? No.
Trump is just doing what the left wanted the USA to do a decade ago and withdrawing US troops from the Middle East
And do you ever stop to even consider if that was a good thing to do in this situation or not? Rather than a political game about who said what when about a general position about intervention?
Obviously matters can be very complicated, and its why I am genuinely curious what policy benefits Trump expected for the United States through his action, and if he is happy with the outcome. Clearly I do not like Trump, but I am trying to be objective and to understand what he hoped to gain from this. If it was a cold, even brutal decision but in a ruthless way a practical benefit to his nation I can understand that, even if I do not approve of that decision. But I would like to understand it, and not see the question avoided because of either like or dislike of the man.
But to think the matter can just be covered by consideration of comments made a decade ago, even though repeated since, as if that absolves any need to reflect any further? Not for the first time I struggle to even comprehend why that is a defence.
Trump was elected to put America first not be the world's policeman and he is doing precisely that
It is saddening, what America has become, under Trump. This is not the proud warrior nation, free and brave, which stands by its allies.
Most Americans will be repelled by Trump’s behavior. He will either be impeached or he will lose badly in 2020. His Syria decision was an epochal error.
Wrong.
58% of American voters back Trump's position, they are fed up of endless wars and the US always having to take the body bags and pay the defence bills.
It is saddening, what America has become, under Trump. This is not the proud warrior nation, free and brave, which stands by its allies.
Most Americans will be repelled by Trump’s behavior. He will either be impeached or he will lose badly in 2020. His Syria decision was an epochal error.
Wrong.
58% of American voters back Trump's position, they are fed up of endless wars and the US always having to take the body bags and pay the defence bills.
58% of US voters back Trump's statement 'It is time for America to withdraw from endless wars, many of them tribal' and 'only fight where it is to our benefit' just 20% disagree.
Except they weren’t fighting a war in northern Syria, so much as keeping the peace. US forces have taken a handful of casualties in the years they have been there.
Trump has greenlighted the Turkish invasion of northern Syria, enabled Turkish atrocities against Kurdish civilians, cemented Russian influence in the Eastern Mediterranean, and cast doubt in every alliance the US has. All without consulting either the military of State Department beforehand.
Because if they vote for votes at 16 the whole bill will be canned/voted down by the government and they wont get the election they were voting for in the first place. That's why they dont attach ridiculous amendments to everything in sight, the bills dont get through. Any change made in haste like that btw would be very unlikely to be in place or make a difference to 'this' election
And now maybe you see the problem: the Tories' strategy for getting an election on their preferred terms is reliant on their opponents not doing things that harm the Tories' chances ("if the Lib Dems try to ensure more LibDem voters are enfranchised, then there won't be an election at all, mwahaha!!").
I would've thought the last few weeks would've shown that there's no reason on earth why the Tories' opponents would feel obliged to do things that are only in the Tories' interests, but it seems not!
Can someone explain to me the root of the opposition to votes at 16? It seems a wise move to me, if we are to encourage young people’s interest in politics.
Because they are kids
People are adults at 16. Or have I missed something?
"Looked after" children are "looked after" till the age of 18.
That's because they're children. People are adults at 18.
Labelling things isn't really a good way of making an argument. There are rights and responsibilities we grant people at 16, and there are those we withhold until 18. If you want to argue that voting should in be in latter group (or the former, for that matter), come up with a reason. Arguing semantics about whether they're children or adults is meaningless.
And some things are withheld until 21.
Here in the US, yes, but are there so very many now in the UK? The biggies used to be age of consent for some sexual acts, and minimum age to run for Parliament. Both no longer apply.
Casinos used to be 21, iirc. I don't know if that's still the case.
BBC News reports the Kurds have agreed an alliance with the Syrian Government against the Turks and Syrian government forces are now heading for Northern Syria
Your man Trump is a disaster of untold dimensions
Did Trump invade Iraq? No, he opposed the war.
Did Trump back rebel forces against Assad in Syria? No.
Trump is just doing what the left wanted the USA to do a decade ago and withdrawing US troops from the Middle East
He may have but does he not feel he has any responsibility to sort out the shit he leaves behind? The answer is no,the world will judge him the US are too busy watching sports UT. to give a flying fuck.
It was Bush who invaded Iraq, it was Obama who backed Syrian rebels against Assad not Trump.
It was Russia, Assad and the Kurds who defeated ISIS and Trump is now leaving Syria to them and Turkey (who funded the Free Syrian Army).
It is saddening, what America has become, under Trump. This is not the proud warrior nation, free and brave, which stands by its allies.
Most Americans will be repelled by Trump’s behavior. He will either be impeached or he will lose badly in 2020. His Syria decision was an epochal error.
Wrong.
58% of American voters back Trump's position, they are fed up of endless wars and the US always having to take the body bags and pay the defence bills.
If someone is resident in the UK but has not opted to become a citizen then they implicitly have a higher loyalty to another entity and hence they can’t be “trusted” with setting the direction of the U.K.
This seems to be where the logic fails: any dual national, on the balance of probabilities, has a higher loyalty to one of their countries. But in any case it is not clear why multiple loyalties means one cannot be trusted, unless we accept that foreigners are bad to begin with. Finally, the critics seem to be correct that it is a policy to skew the electorate for political reasons.
I hesitated over the word “trusted” because I thought it would be misunderstood as you have
The point is that if you are a citizen and resident you are part of the demos.
If you are a citizen but not resident you forfeit your right to vote for a local representative (but should be able to vote on matters of principle)
If you are resident but not a citizen you are not a member of the demos
If you are a permanent resident, why shouldn’t you be ?
BBC News reports the Kurds have agreed an alliance with the Syrian Government against the Turks and Syrian government forces are now heading for Northern Syria
Your man Trump is a disaster of untold dimensions
Did Trump invade Iraq? No, he opposed the war.
Did Trump back rebel forces against Assad in Syria? No.
Trump is just doing what the left wanted the USA to do a decade ago and withdrawing US troops from the Middle East
He may have but does he not feel he has any responsibility to sort out the shit he leaves behind? The answer is no,the world will judge him the US are too busy watching sports UT. to give a flying fuck.
It was Bush who invaded Iraq, it was Obama who backed Syrian rebels against Assad not Trump.
It was Russia, Assad and the Kurds who defeated ISIS and Trump is now leaving Syria to them and Turkey (who funded the Free Syrian Army).
It is no longer America's problem in his view
Crass and stupid do not cover it and you seem to be his sole cheerleader on here
The main story on the BBC is that US forces are in retreat in the face of advancing Turkish forces.
That would be Turkey, NATO ally.
Allegedly Syria has agreed to assist the Kurds fight off Turkey.
Which I assume means Russia is on board
This is a complete disaster . Trumps action is one of the worst in recent history , utterly despicable and a shameful betrayal of the Kurds who have been instrumental in defeating ISIS.
GOP: hang your heads in utter shame.
I’ve been ranting about this for days. It might well be the end of Trump, even as he survives everything else.
He has brought shame on the American military, and dishonored America itself, his patriotic base will hate this.
They won't , they don't want any more body bags of American servicemen coming from the Middle East and given the British have withdrawn forces from Iraq and Syria we can hardly criticise
Dear me is there anything Trump could do that you’d disagree with . Your attempts to spin this are now embarrassing.
No, who are embarrassing are the hypocritical left who a decade ago attacked Bush for invading the Middle East and are now attacking Trump for withdrawing from the Middle East
The western Left has taken a strong interest in the Rojava Kurds. Their experiment with a secular, highly decentralised, libertarian eco-socialism and strong commitment to gender equality is exactly what the middle east needs. *Indigenous* models of non theocratic democracy rather than The End of History imposed by Drone strikes. The fact they've stuck firmly to the goal of self governing cantons within a Syrian state rather than independence is an added bonus.
It is saddening, what America has become, under Trump. This is not the proud warrior nation, free and brave, which stands by its allies.
Most Americans will be repelled by Trump’s behavior. He will either be impeached or he will lose badly in 2020. His Syria decision was an epochal error.
Wrong.
58% of American voters back Trump's position, they are fed up of endless wars and the US always having to take the body bags and pay the defence bills.
It is saddening, what America has become, under Trump. This is not the proud warrior nation, free and brave, which stands by its allies.
Most Americans will be repelled by Trump’s behavior. He will either be impeached or he will lose badly in 2020. His Syria decision was an epochal error.
Wrong.
58% of American voters back Trump's position, they are fed up of endless wars and the US always having to take the body bags and pay the defence bills.
It is saddening, what America has become, under Trump. This is not the proud warrior nation, free and brave, which stands by its allies.
Most Americans will be repelled by Trump’s behavior. He will either be impeached or he will lose badly in 2020. His Syria decision was an epochal error.
Wrong.
58% of American voters back Trump's position, they are fed up of endless wars and the US always having to take the body bags and pay the defence bills.
We would also be complete hypocrites attacking Trump having withdrawn British forces from Syria and Iraq.
WRONG WRONG WRONG.......stop defending the plain stupid ffs.
Well which British boys are you going to send to die in Syria then you ranting hypocrite!!!
Had the US requested the presence of UK special forces to help stabilise northern Syria, we would, and should, probably have acceded to that request. Too late now, of course.
Had Trump said no to Erdogan, there would have been no invasion.
58% of US voters back Trump's statement 'It is time for America to withdraw from endless wars, many of them tribal' and 'only fight where it is to our benefit' just 20% disagree.
69% of Republicans and even 55% of Democrats and 50% of Independents agree with Trump's statement according to the poll past week.
Who doesn’t want to withdraw from ‘endless wars’??? Ludicrous polling.
I'm surprised it's only 58%...the other 42% cheer on endless wars which costs billions and cause untold misery
Exactly, when are the warmongers on here tonight going to volunteer to send their sons to fight the Turks? In any case the Syrian Army is joining up with the Kurds anyway tonight, leave them to it
If someone is resident in the UK but has not opted to become a citizen then they implicitly have a higher loyalty to another entity and hence they can’t be “trusted” with setting the direction of the U.K.
This seems to be where the logic fails: any dual national, on the balance of probabilities, has a higher loyalty to one of their countries. But in any case it is not clear why multiple loyalties means one cannot be trusted, unless we accept that foreigners are bad to begin with. Finally, the critics seem to be correct that it is a policy to skew the electorate for political reasons.
I hesitated over the word “trusted” because I thought it would be misunderstood as you have
The point is that if you are a citizen and resident you are part of the demos.
If you are a citizen but not resident you forfeit your right to vote for a local representative (but should be able to vote on matters of principle)
If you are resident but not a citizen you are not a member of the demos
If you are a permanent resident, why shouldn’t you be ?
Because you haven’t made the final step of becoming a citizen
Bad night for Orban in the Hungarian local elections. Fidedigna have lost control of Budapest and several other major cities for the first time since 2010.
Good night for Law and Justice who have just been re elected in the actual Polish general election
58% of US voters back Trump's statement 'It is time for America to withdraw from endless wars, many of them tribal' and 'only fight where it is to our benefit' just 20% disagree.
69% of Republicans and even 55% of Democrats and 50% of Independents agree with Trump's statement according to the poll past week.
Who doesn’t want to withdraw from ‘endless wars’??? Ludicrous polling.
I'm surprised it's only 58%...the other 42% cheer on endless wars which costs billions and cause untold misery
Exactly, when are the warmongers on here tonight going to volunteer to send their sons to fight the Turks? In any case the Syrian Army is joining up with the Kurds anyway tonight, leave them to it
A ridiculous argument.
The warmongers are Erdogan, and the president who green-lit his action.
It is saddening, what America has become, under Trump. This is not the proud warrior nation, free and brave, which stands by its allies.
Most Americans will be repelled by Trump’s behavior. He will either be impeached or he will lose badly in 2020. His Syria decision was an epochal error.
Wrong.
58% of American voters back Trump's position, they are fed up of endless wars and the US always having to take the body bags and pay the defence bills.
It is saddening, what America has become, under Trump. This is not the proud warrior nation, free and brave, which stands by its allies.
Most Americans will be repelled by Trump’s behavior. He will either be impeached or he will lose badly in 2020. His Syria decision was an epochal error.
Wrong.
58% of American voters back Trump's position, they are fed up of endless wars and the US always having to take the body bags and pay the defence bills.
We would also be complete hypocrites attacking Trump having withdrawn British forces from Syria and Iraq.
WRONG WRONG WRONG.......stop defending the plain stupid ffs.
Well which British boys are you going to send to die in Syria then you ranting hypocrite!!!
What has this got to do with British anything. Trump has made an obvious and horrendous mistake - against the advice of his military. You don't have to defend everything he does surely.
If someone is resident in the UK but has not opted to become a citizen then they implicitly have a higher loyalty to another entity and hence they can’t be “trusted” with setting the direction of the U.K.
This seems to be where the logic fails: any dual national, on the balance of probabilities, has a higher loyalty to one of their countries. But in any case it is not clear why multiple loyalties means one cannot be trusted, unless we accept that foreigners are bad to begin with. Finally, the critics seem to be correct that it is a policy to skew the electorate for political reasons.
I hesitated over the word “trusted” because I thought it would be misunderstood as you have
The point is that if you are a citizen and resident you are part of the demos.
If you are a citizen but not resident you forfeit your right to vote for a local representative (but should be able to vote on matters of principle)
If you are resident but not a citizen you are not a member of the demos
If you are a permanent resident, why shouldn’t you be ?
Because you haven’t made the final step of becoming a citizen
That’s not an answer to my question so much as a circular argument.
Can anybody explain why the hong kong protestors smash up the metro stations?
Because they are seen as symbols of the government. Private property is very deliberately not being targeted.
The article linked by another poster does a good job explaining.
I only asked, because on the surface smashing up the public transportation system so people can't go about their everyday lives isn't normally a great way of getting the whole of society on your side....see XR blocking roads that mean people can't get to hospitals etc.
My sense from the people in our HK office is that it’s gone beyond worrying about getting to work. I am going there for a couple of days on my way to Tokyo the week after next. I am looking forward to finding out more and also slightly concerned, too!
It is saddening, what America has become, under Trump. This is not the proud warrior nation, free and brave, which stands by its allies.
Most Americans will be repelled by Trump’s behavior. He will either be impeached or he will lose badly in 2020. His Syria decision was an epochal error.
Wrong.
58% of American voters back Trump's position, they are fed up of endless wars and the US always having to take the body bags and pay the defence bills.
It is saddening, what America has become, under Trump. This is not the proud warrior nation, free and brave, which stands by its allies.
Most Americans will be repelled by Trump’s behavior. He will either be impeached or he will lose badly in 2020. His Syria decision was an epochal error.
Wrong.
58% of American voters back Trump's position, they are fed up of endless wars and the US always having to take the body bags and pay the defence bills.
If someone is resident in the UK but has not opted to become a citizen then they implicitly have a higher loyalty to another entity and hence they can’t be “trusted” with setting the direction of the U.K.
This seems to be where the logic fails: any dual national, on the balance of probabilities, has a higher loyalty to one of their countries. But in any case it is not clear why multiple loyalties means one cannot be trusted, unless we accept that foreigners are bad to begin with. Finally, the critics seem to be correct that it is a policy to skew the electorate for political reasons.
I hesitated over the word “trusted” because I thought it would be misunderstood as you have
The point is that if you are a citizen and resident you are part of the demos.
If you are a citizen but not resident you forfeit your right to vote for a local representative (but should be able to vote on matters of principle)
If you are resident but not a citizen you are not a member of the demos
If you are a permanent resident, why shouldn’t you be ?
In Spain only as a citizen can you vote at the national level. I suppose that is perceived as being the equivalent of permanent resident. It's certainly not just a British thing.
It is saddening, what America has become, under Trump. This is not the proud warrior nation, free and brave, which stands by its allies.
Most Americans will be repelled by Trump’s behavior. He will either be impeached or he will lose badly in 2020. His Syria decision was an epochal error.
Wrong.
58% of American voters back Trump's position, they are fed up of endless wars and the US always having to take the body bags and pay the defence bills.
We would also be complete hypocrites attacking Trump having withdrawn British forces from Syria and Iraq.
WRONG WRONG WRONG.......stop defending the plain stupid ffs.
Well which British boys are you going to send to die in Syria then you ranting hypocrite!!!
What has this got to do with British anything. Trump has made an obvious and horrendous mistake - against the advice of his military. You don't have to defend everything he does surely.
Trump's military advisers have a vested interest in keeping a US presence in the Middle East
It is saddening, what America has become, under Trump. This is not the proud warrior nation, free and brave, which stands by its allies.
Most Americans will be repelled by Trump’s behavior. He will either be impeached or he will lose badly in 2020. His Syria decision was an epochal error.
Wrong.
58% of American voters back Trump's position, they are fed up of endless wars and the US always having to take the body bags and pay the defence bills.
We would also be complete hypocrites attacking Trump having withdrawn British forces from Syria and Iraq.
You really are blinded by the dangerous and absurd Trump. What happened to the moderate remain voting conservative
Unless we are willing to send British troops to Syria we have no right lecturing Trump
Of course we can attack Trump who is dangerous to peace
No we can't, not unless we send British troops to support the Kurds
We would do well to note Trump’s willingness to abandon America’s Kurdish allies to genocide and conclude that as long as he is in the Oval Office the US is not to be trusted.
BBC News reports the Kurds have agreed an alliance with the Syrian Government against the Turks and Syrian government forces are now heading for Northern Syria
Your man Trump is a disaster of untold dimensions
Did Trump invade Iraq? No, he opposed the war.
Did Trump back rebel forces against Assad in Syria? No.
Trump is just doing what the left wanted the USA to do a decade ago and withdrawing US troops from the Middle East
He may have but does he not feel he has any responsibility to sort out the shit he leaves behind? The answer is no,the world will judge him the US are too busy watching sports UT. to give a flying fuck.
It was Bush who invaded Iraq, it was Obama who backed Syrian rebels against Assad not Trump.
It was Russia, Assad and the Kurds who defeated ISIS and Trump is now leaving Syria to them and Turkey (who funded the Free Syrian Army).
It is no longer America's problem in his view
Crass and stupid do not cover it and you seem to be his sole cheerleader on here
I could not care less, last time I checked PB was not yet a monopoly of views
It is saddening, what America has become, under Trump. This is not the proud warrior nation, free and brave, which stands by its allies.
Most Americans will be repelled by Trump’s behavior. He will either be impeached or he will lose badly in 2020. His Syria decision was an epochal error.
Wrong.
58% of American voters back Trump's position, they are fed up of endless wars and the US always having to take the body bags and pay the defence bills.
We would also be complete hypocrites attacking Trump having withdrawn British forces from Syria and Iraq.
WRONG WRONG WRONG.......stop defending the plain stupid ffs.
Well which British boys are you going to send to die in Syria then you ranting hypocrite!!!
What has this got to do with British anything. Trump has made an obvious and horrendous mistake - against the advice of his military. You don't have to defend everything he does surely.
Anyone Johnson considers a friend will be defended by HYUFD. It’s part and parcel of supporting Tory FC.
The main story on the BBC is that US forces are in retreat in the face of advancing Turkish forces.
That would be Turkey, NATO ally.
Allegedly Syria has agreed to assist the Kurds fight off Turkey.
Which I assume means Russia is on board
This is a complete disaster . Trumps action is one of the worst in recent history , utterly despicable and a shameful betrayal of the Kurds who have been instrumental in defeating ISIS.
GOP: hang your heads in utter shame.
I’ve been ranting about this for days. It might well be the end of Trump, even as he survives everything else.
He has brought shame on the American military, and dishonored America itself, his patriotic base will hate this.
They won't , they don't want any more body bags of American servicemen coming from the Middle East and given the British have withdrawn forces from Iraq and Syria we can hardly criticise
Dear me is there anything Trump could do that you’d disagree with . Your attempts to spin this are now embarrassing.
No, who are embarrassing are the hypocritical left who a decade ago attacked Bush for invading the Middle East and are now attacking Trump for withdrawing from the Middle East
Ok, come with me on this journey. You know how the Tory party does occasionally change position? And you presumably feel that those changes in position are completely justified? As indeed many are. Can you find yourself understanding that it is possible that others are able to change position when justified to do so?
If not, can you understand that the hypocrisy of the left is irrelevant to understanding or not of what is happening now? is their change of position justified, is Trump's, these questions do not rest solely on positions of a decade ago.
You do not usually use your cool and start calling people warmongers and the like, so you seem rattled. This is about the actions of the US and if that is justified, and if so are they the right actions regardless - not about hypothetical British action, but about the action things going on right now.
If it is justifiable for more reasons than the vague point about withdrawing troops from the ME, I welcome hearing those justifications. But you are resorting to hypotheticals and attaching people on the left a decade ago. Is that the strongest point you have?
Latest opinion poll from Spain ahead of next month’s election. Yet another hung Parliament beckons, but note the collapse of the Ciudadanos vote. Just a few months ago C’s was looking like it could become Spain’s second party, but a disastrous lurch to the right has brought it to the verge of extinction. It’s truly extraordinary. https://twitter.com/electograph/status/1183466282684948480?s=21
Looks like Catalan nationalists may hold the balance of power which could mean an Independence referendum
It is saddening, what America has become, under Trump. This is not the proud warrior nation, free and brave, which stands by its allies.
Most Americans will be repelled by Trump’s behavior. He will either be impeached or he will lose badly in 2020. His Syria decision was an epochal error.
Wrong.
58% of American voters back Trump's position, they are fed up of endless wars and the US always having to take the body bags and pay the defence bills.
We would also be complete hypocrites attacking Trump having withdrawn British forces from Syria and Iraq.
WRONG WRONG WRONG.......stop defending the plain stupid ffs.
Well which British boys are you going to send to die in Syria then you ranting hypocrite!!!
What has this got to do with British anything. Trump has made an obvious and horrendous mistake - against the advice of his military. You don't have to defend everything he does surely.
Trump's military advisers have a vested interest in keeping a US presence in the Middle East
The US has a vested interest in not betraying its allies.
It is saddening, what America has become, under Trump. This is not the proud warrior nation, free and brave, which stands by its allies.
Most Americans will be repelled by Trump’s behavior. He will either be impeached or he will lose badly in 2020. His Syria decision was an epochal error.
Wrong.
58% of American voters back Trump's position, they are fed up of endless wars and the US always having to take the body bags and pay the defence bills.
We would also be complete hypocrites attacking Trump having withdrawn British forces from Syria and Iraq.
You really are blinded by the dangerous and absurd Trump. What happened to the moderate remain voting conservative
Unless we are willing to send British troops to Syria we have no right lecturing Trump
Of course we can attack Trump who is dangerous to peace
No we can't, not unless we send British troops to support the Kurds
We would do well to note Trump’s willingness to abandon America’s Kurdish allies to genocide and conclude that as long as he is in the Oval Office the US is not to be trusted.
Trump is pursuing an 'America First' agenda much as Brexit was a vote for 'Britain First'.
It was not a vote to be submerged in either the EU or USA
Latest opinion poll from Spain ahead of next month’s election. Yet another hung Parliament beckons, but note the collapse of the Ciudadanos vote. Just a few months ago C’s was looking like it could become Spain’s second party, but a disastrous lurch to the right has brought it to the verge of extinction. It’s truly extraordinary. https://twitter.com/electograph/status/1183466282684948480?s=21
Looks like Catalan nationalists may hold the balance of power which could mean an Independence referendum
Didn't they hold the balance of power last time too? And their withdrawing of support is why we have an election?
The main story on the BBC is that US forces are in retreat in the face of advancing Turkish forces.
That would be Turkey, NATO ally.
Allegedly Syria has agreed to assist the Kurds fight off Turkey.
Which I assume means Russia is on board
This is a complete disaster . Trumps action is one of the worst in recent history , utterly despicable and a shameful betrayal of the Kurds who have been instrumental in defeating ISIS.
GOP: hang your heads in utter shame.
I’ve been ranting about this for days. It might well be the end of Trump, even as he survives everything else.
He has brought shame on the American military, and dishonored America itself, his patriotic base will hate this.
They won't , they don't want any more body bags of American servicemen coming from the Middle East and given the British have withdrawn forces from Iraq and Syria we can hardly criticise
Dear me is there anything Trump could do that you’d disagree with . Your attempts to spin this are now embarrassing.
No, who are embarrassing are the hypocritical left who a decade ago attacked Bush for invading the Middle East and are now attacking Trump for withdrawing from the Middle East
Ok, come with me on this journey. You know how the Tory party does occasionally change position? And you presumably feel that those changes in position are completely justified? As indeed many are. Can you find yourself understanding that it is possible that others are able to change position when justified to do so?
If not, can you understand that the hypocrisy of the left is irrelevant to understanding or not of what is happening now? is their change of position justified, is Trump's, these questions do not rest solely on positions of a decade ago.
You do not usually use your cool and start calling people warmongers and the like, so you seem rattled. This is about the actions of the US and if that is justified, and if so are they the right actions regardless - not about hypothetical British action, but about the action things going on right now.
If it is justifiable for more reasons than the vague point about withdrawing troops from the ME, I welcome hearing those justifications. But you are resorting to hypotheticals and attaching people on the left a decade ago. Is that the strongest point you have?
Either you support a neocon agenda and US intervention in the Middle East or you don't
It is saddening, what America has become, under Trump. This is not the proud warrior nation, free and brave, which stands by its allies.
Most Americans will be repelled by Trump’s behavior. He will either be impeached or he will lose badly in 2020. His Syria decision was an epochal error.
Wrong.
58% of American voters back Trump's position, they are fed up of endless wars and the US always having to take the body bags and pay the defence bills.
We would also be complete hypocrites attacking Trump having withdrawn British forces from Syria and Iraq.
You really are blinded by the dangerous and absurd Trump. What happened to the moderate remain voting conservative
Unless we are willing to send British troops to Syria we have no right lecturing Trump
Of course we can attack Trump who is dangerous to peace
No we can't, not unless we send British troops to support the Kurds
We would do well to note Trump’s willingness to abandon America’s Kurdish allies to genocide and conclude that as long as he is in the Oval Office the US is not to be trusted.
Trump is pursuing an 'America First' agenda much as Brexit was a vote for 'Britain First'.
It was not a vote to be submerged in either the EU or USA
Your first sentence is meaningless sloganeering. Your second, incomprehensible.
It is saddening, what America has become, under Trump. This is not the proud warrior nation, free and brave, which stands by its allies.
Most Americans will be repelled by Trump’s behavior. He will either be impeached or he will lose badly in 2020. His Syria decision was an epochal error.
Wrong.
58% of American voters back Trump's position, they are fed up of endless wars and the US always having to take the body bags and pay the defence bills.
We would also be complete hypocrites attacking Trump having withdrawn British forces from Syria and Iraq.
You really are blinded by the dangerous and absurd Trump. What happened to the moderate remain voting conservative
Unless we are willing to send British troops to Syria we have no right lecturing Trump
Of course we can attack Trump who is dangerous to peace
No we can't, not unless we send British troops to support the Kurds
We would do well to note Trump’s willingness to abandon America’s Kurdish allies to genocide and conclude that as long as he is in the Oval Office the US is not to be trusted.
Trump is pursuing an 'America First' agenda much as Brexit was a vote for 'Britain First'.
It was not a vote to be submerged in either the EU or USA
Yes, Trump’s strategy is to allow the Turks to massacre Kurdish troops and civilians who at the US’s behest sacrificed so much to play a pivotal role in defeating ISIS, a key US strategic objective. Anyone who trusts Trump’s America is a fool.
Latest opinion poll from Spain ahead of next month’s election. Yet another hung Parliament beckons, but note the collapse of the Ciudadanos vote. Just a few months ago C’s was looking like it could become Spain’s second party, but a disastrous lurch to the right has brought it to the verge of extinction. It’s truly extraordinary. https://twitter.com/electograph/status/1183466282684948480?s=21
Looks like Catalan nationalists may hold the balance of power which could mean an Independence referendum
Didn't they hold the balance of power last time too? And their withdrawing of support is why we have an election?
And they will likely hold the balance of power again
It is saddening, what America has become, under Trump. This is not the proud warrior nation, free and brave, which stands by its allies.
Most Americans will be repelled by Trump’s behavior. He will either be impeached or he will lose badly in 2020. His Syria decision was an epochal error.
Wrong.
58% of American voters back Trump's position, they are fed up of endless wars and the US always having to take the body bags and pay the defence bills.
BBC News reports the Kurds have agreed an alliance with the Syrian Government against the Turks and Syrian government forces are now heading for Northern Syria
Your man Trump is a disaster of untold dimensions
Did Trump invade Iraq? No, he opposed the war.
Did Trump back rebel forces against Assad in Syria? No.
Trump is just doing what the left wanted the USA to do a decade ago and withdrawing US troops from the Middle East
He may have but does he not feel he has any responsibility to sort out the shit he leaves behind? The answer is no,the world will judge him the US are too busy watching sports UT. to give a flying fuck.
It was Bush who invaded Iraq, it was Obama who backed Syrian rebels against Assad not Trump.
It was Russia, Assad and the Kurds who defeated ISIS and Trump is now leaving Syria to them and Turkey (who funded the Free Syrian Army).
It is no longer America's problem in his view
Crass and stupid do not cover it and you seem to be his sole cheerleader on here
I could not care less, last time I checked PB was not yet a monopoly of views
That it is not, and more power to you for your views, but you clearly do care because you are becoming increasingly rancrous about it. Why pretend you don't care when you are getting so emotional about defending the point? Yes, in response to the emotional reactions of others, but you're making cases based on decades old statements from the nebulous 'left' as if that is a killer argument, which is well below your usual logic.
Latest opinion poll from Spain ahead of next month’s election. Yet another hung Parliament beckons, but note the collapse of the Ciudadanos vote. Just a few months ago C’s was looking like it could become Spain’s second party, but a disastrous lurch to the right has brought it to the verge of extinction. It’s truly extraordinary. https://twitter.com/electograph/status/1183466282684948480?s=21
Looks like Catalan nationalists may hold the balance of power which could mean an Independence referendum
Not a snowball’s chance in hell of that happening.
Latest opinion poll from Spain ahead of next month’s election. Yet another hung Parliament beckons, but note the collapse of the Ciudadanos vote. Just a few months ago C’s was looking like it could become Spain’s second party, but a disastrous lurch to the right has brought it to the verge of extinction. It’s truly extraordinary. https://twitter.com/electograph/status/1183466282684948480?s=21
Looks like Catalan nationalists may hold the balance of power which could mean an Independence referendum
Not a snowball’s chance in hell of that happening.
It is saddening, what America has become, under Trump. This is not the proud warrior nation, free and brave, which stands by its allies.
Most Americans will be repelled by Trump’s behavior. He will either be impeached or he will lose badly in 2020. His Syria decision was an epochal error.
Wrong.
58% of American voters back Trump's position, they are fed up of endless wars and the US always having to take the body bags and pay the defence bills.
We would also be complete hypocrites attacking Trump having withdrawn British forces from Syria and Iraq.
You really are blinded by the dangerous and absurd Trump. What happened to the moderate remain voting conservative
Unless we are willing to send British troops to Syria we have no right lecturing Trump
Of course we can attack Trump who is dangerous to peace
No we can't, not unless we send British troops to support the Kurds
We would do well to note Trump’s willingness to abandon America’s Kurdish allies to genocide and conclude that as long as he is in the Oval Office the US is not to be trusted.
Trump is pursuing an 'America First' agenda much as Brexit was a vote for 'Britain First'.
It was not a vote to be submerged in either the EU or USA
Yes, Trump’s strategy is to allow the Turks to massacre Kurdish troops and civilians who at the US’s behest sacrificed so much to play a pivotal role in defeating ISIS, a key US strategic objective. Anyone who trusts Trump’s America is a fool.
Except in reality it isn't given tonight Syrian forces are heading to join the Kurds to fight the Turks after a Deal between the Kurds and Assad.
No real surprise as both oppose Turkey, the Kurds for obvious reasons and Assad due to Turkish support for the Syrian rebels.
The main story on the BBC is that US forces are in retreat in the face of advancing Turkish forces.
That would be Turkey, NATO ally.
Allegedly Syria has agreed to assist the Kurds fight off Turkey.
Which I assume means Russia is on board
This is a complete disaster . Trumps action is one of the worst in recent history , utterly despicable and a shameful betrayal of the Kurds who have been instrumental in defeating ISIS.
GOP: hang your heads in utter shame.
I’ve been ranting about this for days. It might well be the end of Trump, even as he survives everything else.
He has brought shame on the American military, and dishonored America itself, his patriotic base will hate this.
They we British have withdrawn forces from Iraq and Syria we can hardly criticise
Dear rrassing.
No, whohdrawing from the Middle East
O
You do
If it is justifiable for more reasons than the vague point about withdrawing troops from the ME, I welcome hearing those justifications. But you are resorting to hypotheticals and attaching people on the left a decade ago. Is that the strongest point you have?
They are absolutely, either you support a neocon agenda and US intervention in the Middle East or you don't
So there are no differences between potential interventions in your eyes, or between withdrawing troops already present vs invading a whole new country for instance?
I really do not understand why you boil everything down to only two options, one good and one bad. I cannot credit how such complex situations can be moralised so simply.
Not even Trump would sugges that, surely, or he would have removed all troops from the ME immediately upon becoming President. And if you say others persuaded him not to for their own purposes all that time, that kind of proves the complexity, because they apparently did persuade him up to now, and if he agreed it was too complex to just withdraw them then, it definitely was not as simple as you've just pretended.
More to the point, will you at least accept that just as you are willing to justify changing your position, as the party changes its position, that 'the left' and others are allowed to hold a different view now to what they said in the past? Because your call of automatic hypocrisy rather suggests you think only you are permitted to change your mind.
Latest opinion poll from Spain ahead of next month’s election. Yet another hung Parliament beckons, but note the collapse of the Ciudadanos vote. Just a few months ago C’s was looking like it could become Spain’s second party, but a disastrous lurch to the right has brought it to the verge of extinction. It’s truly extraordinary. https://twitter.com/electograph/status/1183466282684948480?s=21
Looks like Catalan nationalists may hold the balance of power which could mean an Independence referendum
Not a snowball’s chance in hell of that happening.
It is saddening, what America has become, under Trump. This is not the proud warrior nation, free and brave, which stands by its allies.
Most Americans will be repelled by Trump’s behavior. He will either be impeached or he will lose badly in 2020. His Syria decision was an epochal error.
Wrong.
58% of American voters back Trump's position, they are fed up of endless wars and the US always having to take the body bags and pay the defence bills.
It is saddening, what America has become, under Trump. This is not the proud warrior nation, free and brave, which stands by its allies.
Most Americans will be repelled by Trump’s behavior. He will either be impeached or he will lose badly in 2020. His Syria decision was an epochal error.
Wrong.
58% of American voters back Trump's position, they are fed up of endless wars and the US always having to take the body bags and pay the defence bills.
We would also be complete hypocrites attacking Trump having withdrawn British forces from Syria and Iraq.
You really are blinded by the dangerous and absurd Trump. What happened to the moderate remain voting conservative
Unless we are willing to send British troops to Syria we have no right lecturing Trump
Of course we can attack Trump who is dangerous to peace
No we can't, not unless we send British troops to support the Kurds
We would do well to note Trump’s willingness to abandon America’s Kurdish allies to genocide and conclude that as long as he is in the Oval Office the US is not to be trusted.
Trump is pursuing an 'America First' agenda much as Brexit was a vote for 'Britain First'.
It was not a vote to be submerged in either the EU or USA
Yes, Trump’s strategy is to allow the Turks to massacre Kurdish troops and civilians who at the US’s behest sacrificed so much to play a pivotal role in defeating ISIS, a key US strategic objective. Anyone who trusts Trump’s America is a fool.
Except in reality it isn't given tonight Syrian forces are heading to join the Kurds to fight the Turks after a Deal between the Kurds and Assad.
No real surprise as both oppose Turkey, the Kurds for obvious reasons and Assad due to Turkish support for the Syrian rebels
That is a reaction to Trump’s strategy of abandoning the Kurds to massacre.
It is saddening, what America has become, under Trump. This is not the proud warrior nation, free and brave, which stands by its allies.
Most Americans will be repelled by Trump’s behavior. He will either be impeached or he will lose badly in 2020. His Syria decision was an epochal error.
Wrong.
58% of American voters back Trump's position, they are fed up of endless wars and the US always having to take the body bags and pay the defence bills.
We would also be complete hypocrites attacking Trump having withdrawn British forces from Syria and Iraq.
You really are blinded by the dangerous and absurd Trump. What happened to the moderate remain voting conservative
Unless we are willing to send British troops to Syria we have no right lecturing Trump
Of course we can attack Trump who is dangerous to peace
No we can't, not unless we send British troops to support the Kurds
We would do well to note Trump’s willingness to abandon America’s Kurdish allies to genocide and conclude that as long as he is in the Oval Office the US is not to be trusted.
Trump is pursuing an 'America First' agenda much as Brexit was a vote for 'Britain First'.
It was not a vote to be submerged in either the EU or USA
Yes, Trump’s strategy is to allow the Turks to massacre Kurdish troops and civilians who at the US’s behest sacrificed so much to play a pivotal role in defeating ISIS, a key US strategic objective. Anyone who trusts Trump’s America is a fool.
Except in reality it isn't given tonight Syrian forces are heading to join the Kurds to fight the Turks after a Deal between the Kurds and Assad.
No real surprise as both oppose Turkey, the Kurds for obvious reasons and Assad due to Turkish support for the Syrian rebels
That is a reaction to Trump’s strategy of abandoning the Kurds to massacre.
Trump's strategy is proved correct as it shows the Kurds do not need to rely solely on US support
The main story on the BBC is that US forces are in retreat in the face of advancing Turkish forces.
That would be Turkey, NATO ally.
Allegedly Syria has agreed to assist the Kurds fight off Turkey.
Which I assume means Russia is on board
This is a complete disaster . Trumps action is one of the worst in recent history , utterly despicable and a shameful betrayal of the Kurds who have been instrumental in defeating ISIS.
GOP: hang your heads in utter shame.
I’ve been ranting about this for days. It might well be the end of Trump, even as he survives everything else.
He has brought shame on the American military, and dishonored America itself, his patriotic base will hate this.
They won't , they don't want any more body bags of American servicemen coming from the Middle East and given the British have withdrawn forces from Iraq and Syria we can hardly criticise
As an aside, if an ISIS member who had previously been help prisoner by the Kurds commits a terrorist attack on US soil, how popular do you think President Trump's policy will be then?
The main story on the BBC is that US forces are in retreat in the face of advancing Turkish forces.
That would be Turkey, NATO ally.
Allegedly Syria has agreed to assist the Kurds fight off Turkey.
Which I assume means Russia is on board
This is a complete disaster . Trumps action is one of the worst in recent history , utterly despicable and a shameful betrayal of the Kurds who have been instrumental in defeating ISIS.
GOP: hang your heads in utter shame.
I’ve been ranting about this for days. It might well be the end of Trump, even as he survives everything else.
He has brought shame on the American military, and dishonored America itself, his patriotic base will hate this.
They we British have withdrawn forces from Iraq and Syria we can hardly criticise
Dear rrassing.
No, whohdrawing from the Middle East ve?
They are absolutely, either you support a neocon agenda and US intervention in the Middle East or you don't
So there are no differences between potential interventions in your eyes, or between withdrawing troops already present vs invading a whole new country for instance?
I really do not understand why you boil everything down to only two options, one good and one bad. I cannot credit how such complex situations can be moralised so simply.
Not even Trump would sugges that, surely, or he would have removed all troops from the ME immediately upon becoming President. And if you say others persuaded him not to for their own purposes all that time, that kind of proves the complexity, because they apparently did persuade him up to now, and if he agreed it was too complex to just withdraw them then, it definitely was not as simple as you've just pretended.
More to the point, will you at least accept that just as you are willing to justify changing your position, as the party changes its position, that 'the left' and others are allowed to hold a different view now to what they said in the past? Because your call of automatic hypocrisy rather suggests you think only you are permitted to change your mind.
Except they haven't got a different view.
The 'Stop the War coalition' is not demanding we invade Syria to support the Kurds against Turkey
It is saddening, what America has become, under Trump. This is not the proud warrior nation, free and brave, which stands by its allies.
Most Americans will be repelled by Trump’s behavior. He will either be impeached or he will lose badly in 2020. His Syria decision was an epochal error.
Wrong.
58% of American voters back Trump's position, they are fed up of endless wars and the US always having to take the body bags and pay the defence bills.
The main story on the BBC is that US forces are in retreat in the face of advancing Turkish forces.
That would be Turkey, NATO ally.
Allegedly Syria has agreed to assist the Kurds fight off Turkey.
Which I assume means Russia is on board
This is a complete disaster . Trumps action is one of the worst in recent history , utterly despicable and a shameful betrayal of the Kurds who have been instrumental in defeating ISIS.
GOP: hang your heads in utter shame.
I’ve been ranting about this for days. It might well be the end of Trump, even as he survives everything else.
He has brought shame on the American military, and dishonored America itself, his patriotic base will hate this.
They won't , they don't want any more body bags of American servicemen coming from the Middle East and given the British have withdrawn forces from Iraq and Syria we can hardly criticise
As an aside, if an ISIS member who had previously been help prisoner by the Kurds commits a terrorist attack on US soil, how popular do you think President Trump's policy will be then?
Given Trump's extremely tough immigration policy and ban on migrants and tourists to the US from many Middle Eastern countries that is unlikely
Essentially the right to vote is the highest responsibility any citizen has in a society
It is jealously guarded because it allows an active voice in the future direction of that society. Clearly over time we have rightly understood that the franchise should be extended, from landowners to all adult men to all adults over 18.
[...]
If someone is resident in the UK but has not opted to become a citizen then they implicitly have a higher loyalty to another entity and hence they can’t be “trusted” with setting the direction of the U.K. This is a choice they have - as a US citizen my wife doesn’t have the right to vote despite being here nearly 15 years. This is because in her mind she will always be an American not a Brit.
Hope that helps explain why it matters.
Thanks for your earnest and sensible answer. I appreciate it. The issue I have with what you're saying is that you are talking about citizenship as a proxy for the concept of loyalty and that loyalty confers rights. I find both these concepts difficult to understand. I would not say that I'm loyal to this country, even though I hold a passport and am therefore a citizen. If my country does something wrong -- which it often does -- I will say so. I would never fight for my country per se. I would fight for my freedom and of those around me against any oppressor, foreign or domestic (and no, I'm not saying that the UK is oppressing me, this is hypothetical). If I'm not loyal to my country, what am I loyal to? I'm loyal to liberty and justice. Sorry if that sounds a bit pledge-of-allegiance but that's what gets my heart skipping, not the union fucking jack.
So here's the difficulty. Since I'm fundamentally more loyal to a concept than my country, despite being a citizen, why do I get a vote? Nobody so far has ever said to me I should be denied my right to vote, despite me making no secret of my lack of loyalty to this country. Perhaps someone will oblige me now, but I won't take it seriously because I have a very clear concept of democracy. That your right to vote is not earned, it is an inalienable human right to participate in the common decisions of your community. I do not have a vote because of my gender, I do not have a right to vote because I have placed my hand on my heart and sworn allegiance to the queen, and I do not have a right to vote because anyone has deemed me worthy of it. I have a right to vote because I'm a part of this community.
And my neighbours, who happen to be Spanish, they are too. I do not know how they would vote if they could vote in a general election, and I do not care. I want them to have their say in exactly the same way that I can move from one county to another and still vote in council elections. Even people from fucking Lincolnshire should be allowed to vote here.
Until now I thought trump would pull off a victory next year, the economy would be bouncing back from a slowdown and overall he would be seen as "not as bad as the Dems say". After the Syria withdrawal I think he's not going to win, the Dems have the perfect stick to beat him with, stabbing the vanquishers of ISIS in the back will have gone down very, very badly with his base.
It is saddening, what America has become, under Trump. This is not the proud warrior nation, free and brave, which stands by its allies.
Most Americans will be repelled by Trump’s behavior. He will either be impeached or he will lose badly in 2020. His Syria decision was an epochal error.
Wrong.
58% of American voters back Trump's position, they are fed up of endless wars and the US always having to take the body bags and pay the defence bills.
It is saddening, what America has become, under Trump. This is not the proud warrior nation, free and brave, which stands by its allies.
Most Americans will be repelled by Trump’s behavior. He will either be impeached or he will lose badly in 2020. His Syria decision was an epochal error.
Wrong.
58% of American voters back Trump's position, they are fed up of endless wars and the US always having to take the body bags and pay the defence bills.
We would also be complete hypocrites attacking Trump having withdrawn British forces from Syria and Iraq.
You really are blinded by the dangerous and absurd Trump. What happened to the moderate remain voting conservative
Unless we are willing to send British troops to Syria we have no right lecturing Trump
Of course we can attack Trump who is dangerous to peace
No we can't, not unless we send British troops to support the Kurds
We would do well to note Trump’s willingness to abandon America’s Kurdish allies to genocide and conclude that as long as he is in the Oval Office the US is not to be trusted.
Trump is pursuing an 'America First' agenda much as Brexit was a vote for 'Britain First'.
It was not a vote to be submerged in either the EU or USA
Yes, Trump’s strategy is to allow the Turks to massacre Kurdish troops and civilians who at the US’s behest sacrificed so much to play a pivotal role in defeating ISIS, a key US strategic objective. Anyone who trusts Trump’s America is a fool.
Except in reality it isn't given tonight Syrian forces are heading to join the Kurds to fight the Turks after a Deal between the Kurds and Assad.
No real surprise as both oppose Turkey, the Kurds for obvious reasons and Assad due to Turkish support for the Syrian rebels.
That’s a lot of hand waving away the betrayal of an ally, and killings and atrocities which are already happening. Northern Syria was a safe haven from both the Syrian regime and from Turkish incursion. By agreeing to allow a full scale invasion, Trump has forced the Kurds to choose between their enemies; it will not be a cost free choice.
Latest opinion poll from Spain ahead of next month’s election. Yet another hung Parliament beckons, but note the collapse of the Ciudadanos vote. Just a few months ago C’s was looking like it could become Spain’s second party, but a disastrous lurch to the right has brought it to the verge of extinction. It’s truly extraordinary. https://twitter.com/electograph/status/1183466282684948480?s=21
Looks like Catalan nationalists may hold the balance of power which could mean an Independence referendum
Didn't they hold the balance of power last time too? And their withdrawing of support is why we have an election?
No, there was no agreement after the last election, which is why there’s a new one. It’s Spain’s fourth in four years! After this one, I suspect the remaining C’s MPs will abstain on a Sánchez presidency rather than vote against it, along with most of the regional parties. That will confirm PSOE in power, but it will be a fragile grip unless they can do a deal with Podemos.
Until now I thought trump would pull off a victory next year, the economy would be bouncing back from a slowdown and overall he would be seen as "not as bad as the Dems say". After the Syria withdrawal I think he's not going to win, the Dems have the perfect stick to beat him with, stabbing the vanquishers of ISIS in the back will have gone down very, very badly with his base.
I think he's done.
58% of US voters back Trump's policy, including 69% of Republicans
Latest opinion poll from Spain ahead of next month’s election. Yet another hung Parliament beckons, but note the collapse of the Ciudadanos vote. Just a few months ago C’s was looking like it could become Spain’s second party, but a disastrous lurch to the right has brought it to the verge of extinction. It’s truly extraordinary. https://twitter.com/electograph/status/1183466282684948480?s=21
Looks like Catalan nationalists may hold the balance of power which could mean an Independence referendum
Not a snowball’s chance in hell of that happening.
No chance of a stable Socialist government then
That’s a given.
Unless things change the GE will merely reshuffle some of both the left and right votes with overall a similar result. Ironically the best route to stability might be a grand coalition. Unless the Ciudadanos rump back Sánchez which could happen if he toughens up on Catalonia.
Until now I thought trump would pull off a victory next year, the economy would be bouncing back from a slowdown and overall he would be seen as "not as bad as the Dems say". After the Syria withdrawal I think he's not going to win, the Dems have the perfect stick to beat him with, stabbing the vanquishers of ISIS in the back will have gone down very, very badly with his base.
I think he's done.
58% of US voters back Trump's policy, including 69% of Republicans
(Edit: of course in the case of the Irish and some other Commonwealth countries the U.K. has extended voting rights to them. That is a choice that Westminster has made in behalf of the demos)
Incidentally, this was the most interestingly cryptic part of your answer. I haven't pushed the point in the discussions today, but I'm intrigued as to the distinction between those countries whose passport holders may vote here and those that may not. I'm not sure I understand how anyone can justify the difference, apart from the case of Ireland because of the GFA. From my perspective it's all the same. If you're legally resident here, you should have the vote. I think it's quite the challenge to say "here is a list of yesses and here's a list noes and here's why." I'm intrigued to know whether anyone has a good justification for that.
It is saddening, what America has become, under Trump. This is not the proud warrior nation, free and brave, which stands by its allies.
Most Americans will be repelled by Trump’s behavior. He will either be impeached or he will lose badly in 2020. His Syria decision was an epochal error.
Wrong.
58% of American voters back Trump's position, they are fed up of endless wars and the US always having to take the body bags and pay the defence bills.
We would also be complete hypocrites attacking Trump having withdrawn British forces from Syria and Iraq.
You really are blinded by the dangerous and absurd Trump. What happened to the moderate remain voting conservative
Unless we are willing to send British troops to Syria we have no right lecturing Trump
Of course we can attack Trump who is dangerous to peace
No we can't, not unless we send British troops to support the Kurds
We would do well to note Trump’s willingness to abandon America’s Kurdish allies to genocide and conclude that as long as he is in the Oval Office the US is not to be trusted.
Trump is pursuing an 'America First' agenda much as Brexit was a vote for 'Britain First'.
It was not a vote to be submerged in either the EU or USA
Yes, Trump’s strategy is to allow the ca is a fool.
Except in reality it isn't given tonight Syrian forces are heading to join the Kurds to fight the Turks after a Deal between the Kurds and Assad.
No real surprise as both oppose Turkey, the Kurds for obvious reasons and Assad due to Turkish support for the Syrian rebels.
That’s a lot of hand waving away the betrayal of an ally, and killings and atrocities which are already happening. Northern Syria was a safe haven from both the Syrian regime and from Turkish incursion. By agreeing to allow a full scale invasion, Trump has forced the Kurds to choose between their enemies; it will not be a cost free choice.
Trump's policy is leave Syria to Assad and the Kurds are now willing to adjust to that, it was western support for rebel groups trying to topple Assad which led to the growth of ISIS in the first place.
Now ISIS is defeated Trump has no further interest in Syria
The main story on the BBC is that US forces are in retreat in the face of advancing Turkish forces.
That would be Turkey, NATO ally.
Allegedly Syria has agreed to assist the Kurds fight off Turkey.
Which I assume means Russia is on board
This is a complete disaster . Trumps action is one of the worst in recent history , utterly despicable and a shameful betrayal of the Kurds who have been instrumental in defeating ISIS.
GOP: hang your heads in utter shame.
I’ve been ranting about this for days. It might well be the end of Trump, even as he survives everything else.
He has brought shame on the American military, and dishonored America itself, his patriotic base will hate this.
They won't , they don't want any more body bags of American servicemen coming from the Middle East and given the British have withdrawn forces from Iraq and Syria we can hardly criticise
As an aside, if an ISIS member who had previously been help prisoner by the Kurds commits a terrorist attack on US soil, how popular do you think President Trump's policy will be then?
Given Trump's extremely tough immigration policy and ban on migrants and tourists to the US from many Middle Eastern countries that is unlikely
Ummm.
Do you think terrorists typically emigrate to the countries they plan on attacking?
Latest opinion poll from Spain ahead of next month’s election. Yet another hung Parliament beckons, but note the collapse of the Ciudadanos vote. Just a few months ago C’s was looking like it could become Spain’s second party, but a disastrous lurch to the right has brought it to the verge of extinction. It’s truly extraordinary. https://twitter.com/electograph/status/1183466282684948480?s=21
Looks like Catalan nationalists may hold the balance of power which could mean an Independence referendum
Didn't they hold the balance of power last time too? And their withdrawing of support is why we have an election?
No, there was no agreement after the last election, which is why there’s a new one. It’s Spain’s fourth in four years! After this one, I suspect the remaining C’s MPs will abstain on a Sánchez presidency rather than vote against it, along with most of the regional parties. That will confirm PSOE in power, but it will be a fragile grip unless they can do a deal with Podemos.
Any chance of going 5 in 5? Clearly they cannot get enough elections in Spain.
Comments
It is entirely typical of the SNP to have liberal policies on the things they don't control but to have authoritarian policies on the things they do.
Acting as his apologist is consistent with your attitudes
69% of Republicans and even 55% of Democrats and 50% of Independents agree with Trump's statement according to the poll past week.
http://m.rasmussenreports.com/public_content/politics/current_events/us_military/most_agree_with_trump_s_withdrawal_from_endless_wars
Obviously matters can be very complicated, and its why I am genuinely curious what policy benefits Trump expected for the United States through his action, and if he is happy with the outcome. Clearly I do not like Trump, but I am trying to be objective and to understand what he hoped to gain from this. If it was a cold, even brutal decision but in a ruthless way a practical benefit to his nation I can understand that, even if I do not approve of that decision. But I would like to understand it, and not see the question avoided because of either like or dislike of the man.
But to think the matter can just be covered by consideration of comments made a decade ago, even though repeated since, as if that absolves any need to reflect any further? Not for the first time I struggle to even comprehend why that is a defence.
On another subject, is there anyone on the right here who might join me in feeling that radical changes to voting access - whether denying votes to people without photo ID or awarding votes to lots of additional foreign residents - is not what we need right now? We've had one of the most divisive periods in British history, with the unwritten Constitution tested to its absolute limits. Wouldn't a bit of stability in the very basic element of democracy - the voting system - be a good idea? We could come back to these proposals in a few years when tempers have cooled.
If there is anybody clever on PB who knows what GBP is going to do over the next 24 hrs, please let me know.
I was struck by how his comments echo this of Buttigieg this weekend:
We, however, are not asking for American soldiers to be in combat. We know that the United States is not the world police. But we do want the United States to acknowledge its important role in achieving a political solution for Syria. We are sure that Washington has sufficient leverage to mediate a sustainable peace between us and Turkey....
Buttigieg on CNN:
Putting an end to endless war doesn't mean ending American engagement around the world,“
“Often, it means making sure we do our part to stabilize or help keep the peace, so that full-blown conflicts don't break out. Look at what's happened here. This isn't even a strategy or a policy. It is the president systematically destroying American alliances and American values. And that makes America worse off.“
Meanwhile Trump congratulates himself for being “very smart”.
Most Americans will be repelled by Trump’s behavior. He will either be impeached or he will lose badly in 2020. His Syria decision was an epochal error.
I only asked, because on the surface smashing up the public transportation system so people can't go about their everyday lives isn't normally a great way of getting the whole of society on your side....see XR blocking roads that mean people can't get to hospitals etc.
The point is that if you are a citizen and resident you are part of the demos.
If you are a citizen but not resident you forfeit your right to vote for a local representative (but should be able to vote on matters of principle)
If you are resident but not a citizen you are not a member of the demos
58% of American voters back Trump's position, they are fed up of endless wars and the US always having to take the body bags and pay the defence bills.
http://m.rasmussenreports.com/public_content/politics/current_events/us_military/most_agree_with_trump_s_withdrawal_from_endless_wars
We would also be complete hypocrites attacking Trump having withdrawn British forces from Syria and Iraq.
What you really mean is that you think its a bad idea as it will affect Labour a lot more than other parties.
Trump has greenlighted the Turkish invasion of northern Syria, enabled Turkish atrocities against Kurdish civilians, cemented Russian influence in the Eastern Mediterranean, and cast doubt in every alliance the US has.
All without consulting either the military of State Department beforehand.
It was Russia, Assad and the Kurds who defeated ISIS and Trump is now leaving Syria to them and Turkey (who funded the Free Syrian Army).
It is no longer America's problem in his view
Had Trump said no to Erdogan, there would have been no invasion.
The warmongers are Erdogan, and the president who green-lit his action.
If not, can you understand that the hypocrisy of the left is irrelevant to understanding or not of what is happening now? is their change of position justified, is Trump's, these questions do not rest solely on positions of a decade ago.
You do not usually use your cool and start calling people warmongers and the like, so you seem rattled. This is about the actions of the US and if that is justified, and if so are they the right actions regardless - not about hypothetical British action, but about the action things going on right now.
If it is justifiable for more reasons than the vague point about withdrawing troops from the ME, I welcome hearing those justifications. But you are resorting to hypotheticals and attaching people on the left a decade ago. Is that the strongest point you have?
“The buck stops here.”
It was not a vote to be submerged in either the EU or USA
You have lost it, sadly
No real surprise as both oppose Turkey, the Kurds for obvious reasons and Assad due to Turkish support for the Syrian rebels.
I really do not understand why you boil everything down to only two options, one good and one bad. I cannot credit how such complex situations can be moralised so simply.
Not even Trump would sugges that, surely, or he would have removed all troops from the ME immediately upon becoming President. And if you say others persuaded him not to for their own purposes all that time, that kind of proves the complexity, because they apparently did persuade him up to now, and if he agreed it was too complex to just withdraw them then, it definitely was not as simple as you've just pretended.
More to the point, will you at least accept that just as you are willing to justify changing your position, as the party changes its position, that 'the left' and others are allowed to hold a different view now to what they said in the past? Because your call of automatic hypocrisy rather suggests you think only you are permitted to change your mind.
He has acted in an irresponsible and crass manner and many innocents will pay a heavy price for his stupidity
The issue I have with what you're saying is that you are talking about citizenship as a proxy for the concept of loyalty and that loyalty confers rights. I find both these concepts difficult to understand.
I would not say that I'm loyal to this country, even though I hold a passport and am therefore a citizen. If my country does something wrong -- which it often does -- I will say so. I would never fight for my country per se. I would fight for my freedom and of those around me against any oppressor, foreign or domestic (and no, I'm not saying that the UK is oppressing me, this is hypothetical). If I'm not loyal to my country, what am I loyal to? I'm loyal to liberty and justice. Sorry if that sounds a bit pledge-of-allegiance but that's what gets my heart skipping, not the union fucking jack.
So here's the difficulty. Since I'm fundamentally more loyal to a concept than my country, despite being a citizen, why do I get a vote? Nobody so far has ever said to me I should be denied my right to vote, despite me making no secret of my lack of loyalty to this country. Perhaps someone will oblige me now, but I won't take it seriously because I have a very clear concept of democracy. That your right to vote is not earned, it is an inalienable human right to participate in the common decisions of your community. I do not have a vote because of my gender, I do not have a right to vote because I have placed my hand on my heart and sworn allegiance to the queen, and I do not have a right to vote because anyone has deemed me worthy of it. I have a right to vote because I'm a part of this community.
And my neighbours, who happen to be Spanish, they are too. I do not know how they would vote if they could vote in a general election, and I do not care. I want them to have their say in exactly the same way that I can move from one county to another and still vote in council elections. Even people from fucking Lincolnshire should be allowed to vote here.
I think he's done.
Northern Syria was a safe haven from both the Syrian regime and from Turkish incursion. By agreeing to allow a full scale invasion, Trump has forced the Kurds to choose between their enemies; it will not be a cost free choice.
http://m.rasmussenreports.com/public_content/politics/current_events/us_military/most_agree_with_trump_s_withdrawal_from_endless_wars
I haven't pushed the point in the discussions today, but I'm intrigued as to the distinction between those countries whose passport holders may vote here and those that may not. I'm not sure I understand how anyone can justify the difference, apart from the case of Ireland because of the GFA.
From my perspective it's all the same. If you're legally resident here, you should have the vote. I think it's quite the challenge to say "here is a list of yesses and here's a list noes and here's why." I'm intrigued to know whether anyone has a good justification for that.
Now ISIS is defeated Trump has no further interest in Syria
Do you think terrorists typically emigrate to the countries they plan on attacking?