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politicalbetting.com » Blog Archive » Trump’s unhinged behaviour won’t invoke the 25th

SystemSystem Posts: 12,171
edited October 2019 in General

imagepoliticalbetting.com » Blog Archive » Trump’s unhinged behaviour won’t invoke the 25th

When Donald Trump was merely the cartoon boss on the Apprentice, he hammed up his performance with the very successful catchphrase “You’re fired” – although it turned out he really was playing himself all along.

Read the full story here


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Comments

  • vikvik Posts: 159
    First ?
  • TheJezziahTheJezziah Posts: 3,840
    edited October 2019
    FPT

    Does anyone understand why the ComRes figures seem to be consistently out of line with other pollsters like YouGov?

    Is it sampling, methodology or something else?


    Polls from the last month.

    Survation
    Con 27% Lab 24% Lead 3%

    BMG
    Con 31% Lab 26% Lead 5%

    ComRes
    Con 33% Lab 27% Lead 6%

    IpsosMori
    Con 33% Lab 24% Lead 9%

    YouGov
    Con 35% Lab 22% Lead 13%

    Opinium
    Con 38% Lab 23% Lead 15%

    The average lead for the Tories is 8.5% so Ispos Mori are the least out of touch with other pollsters in terms of the average, they also as close as they can be to the middle with pollsters on each side of them.

    Unless we preference particular pollsters then ComRes look less out of line than YouGov both in terms of position among the pollsters and difference from the average.

    ComRes is 2.5% difference.
    YouGov is 4.5% difference.

    Arguably if any it is YouGov more out of line with other pollsters than ComRes.
  • edmundintokyoedmundintokyo Posts: 17,708

    FPT

    Does anyone understand why the ComRes figures seem to be consistently out of line with other pollsters like YouGov?

    Is it sampling, methodology or something else?


    Polls from the last month.

    Survation
    Con 27% Lab 24% Lead 3%

    BMG
    Con 31% Lab 26% Lead 5%

    ComRes
    Con 33% Lab 27% Lead 6%

    IpsosMori
    Con 33% Lab 24% Lead 9%

    YouGov
    Con 35% Lab 22% Lead 13%

    Opinium
    Con 38% Lab 23% Lead 15%

    The average lead for the Tories is 8.5% so Ispos Mori are the least out of touch with other pollsters in terms of the average, they also as close as they can be to the middle with pollsters on each side of them.

    Unless we preference particular pollsters then ComRes look less out of line than YouGov both in terms of position among the pollsters and difference from the average.

    ComRes is 2.5% difference.
    YouGov is 4.5% difference.

    Arguably if any it is YouGov more out of line with other pollsters than ComRes.
    I wouldn't take much notice of ComRes but the interesting divergence is between Survation and YouGov, which are both very good pollsters.
  • moonshinemoonshine Posts: 5,751
    Continued...

    Mannequin with Kim Catrall
  • TheJezziahTheJezziah Posts: 3,840
    On topic.

    I'd worry about removing him from office without very good reasons in anything outside of an election. There might be valid reasons why he should go before one but it takes away a potential stitch up narrative from his supporters.
  • edmundintokyoedmundintokyo Posts: 17,708
    edited October 2019
    On topic, I don't disagree on the probability numbers but the interesting thing about this route is that it gets GOP senators off the hook on an impeachment vote. I mean, they still potentially have to vote through a confirmation of the cabinet's judgement, but at that point it's pretty much a fait accompli. If they want it, and the cabinet want it (which is just a case of Pence promising that he'll leave them in their posts) it feels like a viable way to get rid of him.

    Currently GOP senators aren't really *on* the hook for an impeachment vote, but there are at least some signs of public opinion moving in that direction.
  • edmundintokyoedmundintokyo Posts: 17,708
    OT random candidate stanning: Baemy on Bill Maher:
    https://youtu.be/p0xdVvMC3aI
  • rcs1000rcs1000 Posts: 57,236

    OT random candidate stanning: Baemy on Bill Maher:
    https://youtu.be/p0xdVvMC3aI

    Oh man, I'm really good friends with Bill Maher's assistant, and she asked if I wanted to come to the show tonight.

    Who's on, I asked?

    Howard Stern.

    Errrr, I'll pass.
  • vikvik Posts: 159
    vik said:

    First ?

    I *was* first.

    A lifelong dream has been fulfilled.
  • rcs1000rcs1000 Posts: 57,236
    vik said:

    vik said:

    First ?

    I *was* first.

    A lifelong dream has been fulfilled.
    That's like me and my wife.
  • StuartDicksonStuartDickson Posts: 12,146

    FPT

    Does anyone understand why the ComRes figures seem to be consistently out of line with other pollsters like YouGov?

    Is it sampling, methodology or something else?


    Polls from the last month.

    Survation
    Con 27% Lab 24% Lead 3%

    BMG
    Con 31% Lab 26% Lead 5%

    ComRes
    Con 33% Lab 27% Lead 6%

    IpsosMori
    Con 33% Lab 24% Lead 9%

    YouGov
    Con 35% Lab 22% Lead 13%

    Opinium
    Con 38% Lab 23% Lead 15%

    The average lead for the Tories is 8.5% so Ispos Mori are the least out of touch with other pollsters in terms of the average, they also as close as they can be to the middle with pollsters on each side of them.

    Unless we preference particular pollsters then ComRes look less out of line than YouGov both in terms of position among the pollsters and difference from the average.

    ComRes is 2.5% difference.
    YouGov is 4.5% difference.

    Arguably if any it is YouGov more out of line with other pollsters than ComRes.
    Thanks. Good summary. I concur that YouGov are out on the fringe. That doesn’t necessarily make them wrong though.
  • StuartDicksonStuartDickson Posts: 12,146
    The likelihood of a snap UK GE might be receding, but there is still increasing activity in terms of betting markets. Outwith the main MAJ and party overall seat number markets, there is a plethora of markets requiring specialist knowledge. For example:

    (only odds shorter than 10/1 shown)

    Aberdeen S
    SNP 2/5
    Con 7/4

    Beaconsfield
    Con 4/7
    Dominic Grieve (Ind) 5/4

    Bermondsey and Old Southwark
    LD 1/2
    Lab 6/4

    Bishop Aukland
    Con 10/11
    Lab EVS
    Bxp 8/1

    Boston and Skegness
    Con 1/8
    Bxp 4/1

    Cambridgeshire S
    Con 8/11
    LD EVS

    Chelsea and Fulham
    Con 2/5
    LD 7/2
    Lab 4/1

    Chingford and Woodford Green
    Con 2/5
    Lab 7/4

    Cities of London and Westminster
    Con EVS
    LD EVS
    Lab 6/1

    Doncaster N
    Lab 1/5
    Con 4/1
    Bxp 8/1

    East Dunbartonshire
    LD 1/3
    SNP 2/1

    Esher and Walton
    Con 1/5
    LD 3/1

    Finchley and Golders Green
    Con EVS
    LD EVS
    Lab 6/1

    Hartlepool
    Lab 4/6
    Con 11/10

    Islington N
    Lab 1/25
    LD 8/1

    Kensington
    Con 4/5
    Lab 2/1
    LD 3/1

    Manchester Withington
    Lab 1/8
    LD 4/1
  • StuartDicksonStuartDickson Posts: 12,146
    Newbury
    Con 1/2
    LD 11/8

    Portsmouth S
    LD 5/4
    Con 6/4
    Lab 3/1

    Pudsey
    Con 4/6
    Lab 11/10

    Reading E
    Con EVS
    Lab EVS
    LD 6/1

    Richmond Park
    LD 1/10
    Con 5/1

    St Albans
    LD 1/3
    Con 2/1

    Uxbridge and South Ruislip
    Con 1/3
    Lab 3/1

    Watford
    Con 2/5
    LD 3/1
    Lab 6/1

    Wimbledon
    Con 4/7
    LD 5/4
  • rcs1000rcs1000 Posts: 57,236

    The likelihood of a snap UK GE might be receding, but there is still increasing activity in terms of betting markets. Outwith the main MAJ and party overall seat number markets, there is a plethora of markets requiring specialist knowledge. For example:

    (only odds shorter than 10/1 shown)

    Aberdeen S
    SNP 2/5
    Con 7/4

    Beaconsfield
    Con 4/7
    Dominic Grieve (Ind) 5/4

    Bermondsey and Old Southwark
    LD 1/2
    Lab 6/4

    Bishop Aukland
    Con 10/11
    Lab EVS
    Bxp 8/1

    Boston and Skegness
    Con 1/8
    Bxp 4/1

    Cambridgeshire S
    Con 8/11
    LD EVS

    Chelsea and Fulham
    Con 2/5
    LD 7/2
    Lab 4/1

    Chingford and Woodford Green
    Con 2/5
    Lab 7/4

    Cities of London and Westminster
    Con EVS
    LD EVS
    Lab 6/1

    Doncaster N
    Lab 1/5
    Con 4/1
    Bxp 8/1

    East Dunbartonshire
    LD 1/3
    SNP 2/1

    Esher and Walton
    Con 1/5
    LD 3/1

    Finchley and Golders Green
    Con EVS
    LD EVS
    Lab 6/1

    Hartlepool
    Lab 4/6
    Con 11/10

    Islington N
    Lab 1/25
    LD 8/1

    Kensington
    Con 4/5
    Lab 2/1
    LD 3/1

    Manchester Withington
    Lab 1/8
    LD 4/1

    My predictions:

    Aberdeen S: SNP
    Beaconsfield: Con (easily)
    Bermondsey and Old Southwark: Lab
    Bishop Aukland: Con
    Boston and Skegness: Con
    Cambridgeshire S: LD
    Chelsea and Fulham: Con
    Chingford and Woodford Green: Con
    Cities of London and Westminster: TCTC
    Doncaster N: Lab
    East Dunbartonshire: LD
    Esher and Walton: Con
    Finchley and Golders Green: Con (won't be close)
    Hartlepool: Lab
    Islington N: Lab
    Kensington: TCTC
    Manchester Withington: Lab
  • StuartDicksonStuartDickson Posts: 12,146
    Next UK GE - Most Seats in Wales - best prices

    Lab 2/5
    Con 3/1
    PC 25/1
    LD 50/1
  • rcs1000rcs1000 Posts: 57,236

    Newbury
    Con 1/2
    LD 11/8

    Portsmouth S
    LD 5/4
    Con 6/4
    Lab 3/1

    Pudsey
    Con 4/6
    Lab 11/10

    Reading E
    Con EVS
    Lab EVS
    LD 6/1

    Richmond Park
    LD 1/10
    Con 5/1

    St Albans
    LD 1/3
    Con 2/1

    Uxbridge and South Ruislip
    Con 1/3
    Lab 3/1

    Watford
    Con 2/5
    LD 3/1
    Lab 6/1

    Wimbledon
    Con 4/7
    LD 5/4

    And some more predictions from me:

    Newbury: Con (won't be close)
    Portsmouth S: Lab
    Pudsey: Lab
    Reading E: Con
    Richmond Park: LD (by a country mile)
    St Albans: TCTC
    Uxbridge and South Ruislip: Con
    Watford: Con
    Wimbledon: LD
  • rcs1000rcs1000 Posts: 57,236
    As a general rule, I think betting on the LibDems is for people with more money than sense. But I think they'll absolutely walk Richmond Park. If the majority is less than 7-8,000 I'd be very surprised.
  • StuartDicksonStuartDickson Posts: 12,146
    rcs1000 said:

    The likelihood of a snap UK GE might be receding, but there is still increasing activity in terms of betting markets. Outwith the main MAJ and party overall seat number markets, there is a plethora of markets requiring specialist knowledge. For example:

    (only odds shorter than 10/1 shown)

    Aberdeen S
    SNP 2/5
    Con 7/4

    Beaconsfield
    Con 4/7
    Dominic Grieve (Ind) 5/4

    Bermondsey and Old Southwark
    LD 1/2
    Lab 6/4

    Bishop Aukland
    Con 10/11
    Lab EVS
    Bxp 8/1

    Boston and Skegness
    Con 1/8
    Bxp 4/1

    Cambridgeshire S
    Con 8/11
    LD EVS

    Chelsea and Fulham
    Con 2/5
    LD 7/2
    Lab 4/1

    Chingford and Woodford Green
    Con 2/5
    Lab 7/4

    Cities of London and Westminster
    Con EVS
    LD EVS
    Lab 6/1

    Doncaster N
    Lab 1/5
    Con 4/1
    Bxp 8/1

    East Dunbartonshire
    LD 1/3
    SNP 2/1

    Esher and Walton
    Con 1/5
    LD 3/1

    Finchley and Golders Green
    Con EVS
    LD EVS
    Lab 6/1

    Hartlepool
    Lab 4/6
    Con 11/10

    Islington N
    Lab 1/25
    LD 8/1

    Kensington
    Con 4/5
    Lab 2/1
    LD 3/1

    Manchester Withington
    Lab 1/8
    LD 4/1

    My predictions:

    Aberdeen S: SNP
    Beaconsfield: Con (easily)
    Bermondsey and Old Southwark: Lab
    Bishop Aukland: Con
    Boston and Skegness: Con
    Cambridgeshire S: LD
    Chelsea and Fulham: Con
    Chingford and Woodford Green: Con
    Cities of London and Westminster: TCTC
    Doncaster N: Lab
    East Dunbartonshire: LD
    Esher and Walton: Con
    Finchley and Golders Green: Con (won't be close)
    Hartlepool: Lab
    Islington N: Lab
    Kensington: TCTC
    Manchester Withington: Lab
    Fantastic. Thanks. Great when someone sticks their neck out.

    In only one seat do you go for a longer than EVS winner: Bermondsey and Old Southwark. Why?

    Lib Dem operation there particularly poor?

    Great Labour on the ground team?

    Shadsy is a genius?
  • StuartDicksonStuartDickson Posts: 12,146
    rcs1000 said:

    Newbury
    Con 1/2
    LD 11/8

    Portsmouth S
    LD 5/4
    Con 6/4
    Lab 3/1

    Pudsey
    Con 4/6
    Lab 11/10

    Reading E
    Con EVS
    Lab EVS
    LD 6/1

    Richmond Park
    LD 1/10
    Con 5/1

    St Albans
    LD 1/3
    Con 2/1

    Uxbridge and South Ruislip
    Con 1/3
    Lab 3/1

    Watford
    Con 2/5
    LD 3/1
    Lab 6/1

    Wimbledon
    Con 4/7
    LD 5/4

    And some more predictions from me:

    Newbury: Con (won't be close)
    Portsmouth S: Lab
    Pudsey: Lab
    Reading E: Con
    Richmond Park: LD (by a country mile)
    St Albans: TCTC
    Uxbridge and South Ruislip: Con
    Watford: Con
    Wimbledon: LD
    Portsmouth South! Tasty.
  • Morris_DancerMorris_Dancer Posts: 61,806
    Good morning, everyone.

    Some interesting tips there I'll have to peruse properly when a bit more awake.

    I'll see how the F1 market is shortly. Bit odd writing a pre-qualifying *and* pre-race article at the same time.
  • StuartDicksonStuartDickson Posts: 12,146
    edited October 2019
    rcs1000 said:

    As a general rule, I think betting on the LibDems is for people with more money than sense. But I think they'll absolutely walk Richmond Park. If the majority is less than 7-8,000 I'd be very surprised.

    Do you remember that guy who became a regular on PB about 10 years ago. Think he lived in Canada. The poor sod bet his shirt on the Lib Dems, based purely on advice here. When he lost big time, the screams of agony were intolerable. He’s never been seen again. Buyer beware!
  • rcs1000rcs1000 Posts: 57,236

    rcs1000 said:

    The likelihood of a snap UK GE might be receding, but there is still increasing activity in terms of betting markets. Outwith the main MAJ and party overall seat number markets, there is a plethora of markets requiring specialist knowledge. For example:

    (only odds shorter than 10/1 shown)

    Aberdeen S
    SNP 2/5
    Con 7/4

    Beaconsfield
    Con 4/7
    Dominic Grieve (Ind) 5/4

    Bermondsey and Old Southwark
    LD 1/2
    Lab 6/4

    Bishop Aukland
    Con 10/11
    Lab EVS
    Bxp 8/1

    Boston and Skegness
    Con 1/8
    Bxp 4/1

    Cambridgeshire S
    Con 8/11
    LD EVS

    Chelsea and Fulham
    Con 2/5
    LD 7/2
    Lab 4/1

    Chingford and Woodford Green
    Con 2/5
    Lab 7/4

    Cities of London and Westminster
    Con EVS
    LD EVS
    Lab 6/1

    Doncaster N
    Lab 1/5
    Con 4/1
    Bxp 8/1

    East Dunbartonshire
    LD 1/3
    SNP 2/1

    Esher and Walton
    Con 1/5
    LD 3/1

    Finchley and Golders Green
    Con EVS
    LD EVS
    Lab 6/1

    Hartlepool
    Lab 4/6
    Con 11/10

    Islington N
    Lab 1/25
    LD 8/1

    Kensington
    Con 4/5
    Lab 2/1
    LD 3/1

    Manchester Withington
    Lab 1/8
    LD 4/1

    My predictions:

    Aberdeen S: SNP
    Beaconsfield: Con (easily)
    Bermondsey and Old Southwark: Lab
    Bishop Aukland: Con
    Boston and Skegness: Con
    Cambridgeshire S: LD
    Chelsea and Fulham: Con
    Chingford and Woodford Green: Con
    Cities of London and Westminster: TCTC
    Doncaster N: Lab
    East Dunbartonshire: LD
    Esher and Walton: Con
    Finchley and Golders Green: Con (won't be close)
    Hartlepool: Lab
    Islington N: Lab
    Kensington: TCTC
    Manchester Withington: Lab
    Fantastic. Thanks. Great when someone sticks their neck out.

    In only one seat do you go for a longer than EVS winner: Bermondsey and Old Southwark. Why?

    Lib Dem operation there particularly poor?

    Great Labour on the ground team?

    Shadsy is a genius?
    It's not really a LibDem seat; it's a seat where there was an incumbent (who just happened to be a LibDem) an who worked incredibly hard for a long, long time, and who will not be standing in 2019/2020.

    I think Labour will walk it.

    Shadsy's no fool. And some of these constituencies are jokes.
  • eristdooferistdoof Posts: 5,065

    rcs1000 said:

    As a general rule, I think betting on the LibDems is for people with more money than sense. But I think they'll absolutely walk Richmond Park. If the majority is less than 7-8,000 I'd be very surprised.

    Do you remember that guy who became a regular on PB about 10 years ago. Think he lived in Canada. The poor sod bet his shirt on the Lib Dems, based purely on advice here. When he lost big time, the screams of agony were intolerable. He’s never been seen again. Buyer beware!
    First rule of gambling: Never bet more than you can afford to lose.
  • rcs1000rcs1000 Posts: 57,236

    rcs1000 said:

    As a general rule, I think betting on the LibDems is for people with more money than sense. But I think they'll absolutely walk Richmond Park. If the majority is less than 7-8,000 I'd be very surprised.

    Do you remember that guy who became a regular on PB about 10 years ago. Think he lived in Canada. The poor sod bet his shirt on the Lib Dems, based purely on advice here. When he lost big time, the screams of agony were intolerable. He’s never been seen again. Buyer beware!
    My view is that there are about 8-12 seats in London and the South East that will be Brexit babies. (Yes, that few.)

    Hampstead. Wimbledon. Richmond Park. And a few others.

    Seats with 65% Remain shares that feel that both the Conservative and Labour Parties don't care about them.

    I think the LDs will manage some pretty big swings in those seats. (But there aren't many of them.)
  • JonathanJonathan Posts: 21,675
    rcs1000 said:

    rcs1000 said:

    As a general rule, I think betting on the LibDems is for people with more money than sense. But I think they'll absolutely walk Richmond Park. If the majority is less than 7-8,000 I'd be very surprised.

    Do you remember that guy who became a regular on PB about 10 years ago. Think he lived in Canada. The poor sod bet his shirt on the Lib Dems, based purely on advice here. When he lost big time, the screams of agony were intolerable. He’s never been seen again. Buyer beware!
    My view is that there are about 8-12 seats in London and the South East that will be Brexit babies. (Yes, that few.)

    Hampstead. Wimbledon. Richmond Park. And a few others.

    Seats with 65% Remain shares that feel that both the Conservative and Labour Parties don't care about them.

    I think the LDs will manage some pretty big swings in those seats. (But there aren't many of them.)
    The LDs role in this election appears to be to split the opposition vote and gift Boris a majority. It took 14 years to recover from that last time.
  • SquareRootSquareRoot Posts: 7,095
    eristdoof said:

    rcs1000 said:

    As a general rule, I think betting on the LibDems is for people with more money than sense. But I think they'll absolutely walk Richmond Park. If the majority is less than 7-8,000 I'd be very surprised.

    Do you remember that guy who became a regular on PB about 10 years ago. Think he lived in Canada. The poor sod bet his shirt on the Lib Dems, based purely on advice here. When he lost big time, the screams of agony were intolerable. He’s never been seen again. Buyer beware!
    First rule of gambling: Never bet more than you can afford to lose.
    First rule of gambling. Don't bet with your heart.
  • eristdooferistdoof Posts: 5,065

    eristdoof said:

    rcs1000 said:

    As a general rule, I think betting on the LibDems is for people with more money than sense. But I think they'll absolutely walk Richmond Park. If the majority is less than 7-8,000 I'd be very surprised.

    Do you remember that guy who became a regular on PB about 10 years ago. Think he lived in Canada. The poor sod bet his shirt on the Lib Dems, based purely on advice here. When he lost big time, the screams of agony were intolerable. He’s never been seen again. Buyer beware!
    First rule of gambling: Never bet more than you can afford to lose.
    First rule of gambling. Don't bet with your heart.
    Third rule of gambling: Dont confuse second with first!
  • Morris_DancerMorris_Dancer Posts: 61,806
    Mr. Root, that's very good advice but I'd make it the second rule.
  • Newbury
    Con 1/2
    LD 11/8

    Portsmouth S
    LD 5/4
    Con 6/4
    Lab 3/1

    Pudsey
    Con 4/6
    Lab 11/10

    Reading E
    Con EVS
    Lab EVS
    LD 6/1

    Richmond Park
    LD 1/10
    Con 5/1

    St Albans
    LD 1/3
    Con 2/1

    Uxbridge and South Ruislip
    Con 1/3
    Lab 3/1

    Watford
    Con 2/5
    LD 3/1
    Lab 6/1

    Wimbledon
    Con 4/7
    LD 5/4

    Portsmouth south, with its changed demographic, looks good value for Labour

  • SquareRootSquareRoot Posts: 7,095
    Thank you MD.. Betting with the heart has cost me in the past, not a lot , but enough to know better for the future.

    The best thing I can advise anyone is never ever play on fruit machines, you might as well burn the money. Over time you will always lose.
  • nichomarnichomar Posts: 7,483
    Jonathan said:

    rcs1000 said:

    rcs1000 said:

    As a general rule, I think betting on the LibDems is for people with more money than sense. But I think they'll absolutely walk Richmond Park. If the majority is less than 7-8,000 I'd be very surprised.

    Do you remember that guy who became a regular on PB about 10 years ago. Think he lived in Canada. The poor sod bet his shirt on the Lib Dems, based purely on advice here. When he lost big time, the screams of agony were intolerable. He’s never been seen again. Buyer beware!
    My view is that there are about 8-12 seats in London and the South East that will be Brexit babies. (Yes, that few.)

    Hampstead. Wimbledon. Richmond Park. And a few others.

    Seats with 65% Remain shares that feel that both the Conservative and Labour Parties don't care about them.

    I think the LDs will manage some pretty big swings in those seats. (But there aren't many of them.)
    The LDs role in this election appears to be to split the opposition vote and gift Boris a majority. It took 14 years to recover from that last time.
    It’s as valid to say leaving corbyn as leader of the Labour Party gifts Johnson a majority. Labour have no god given right to be the only anti Tory party
  • The problem with Bermondsey is that whilst they have a sane MP, he stands for pretty much the opposite of what Corbyn stands for. Which means that their local campaign is "Vote Labour to STOP Labour". I can see a Labour vote collapse, and not just there. Its evidenced by the swathe of byelections and the polls this year - a double digit Labour fall almost everywhere.

    What happens to these now former Labour voters will make the difference as to the result. If they all stay home and the Tory vote stays intact, Johnson wins big. If they go LD or Green or Brexit (depending on the area) AND the Tory vote also splinters because Brexit, then anything can happen in these seats.

    Remember that Impossible isn't a word that exists in politics...
  • ydoethurydoethur Posts: 71,424
    Jonathan said:

    rcs1000 said:

    rcs1000 said:

    As a general rule, I think betting on the LibDems is for people with more money than sense. But I think they'll absolutely walk Richmond Park. If the majority is less than 7-8,000 I'd be very surprised.

    Do you remember that guy who became a regular on PB about 10 years ago. Think he lived in Canada. The poor sod bet his shirt on the Lib Dems, based purely on advice here. When he lost big time, the screams of agony were intolerable. He’s never been seen again. Buyer beware!
    My view is that there are about 8-12 seats in London and the South East that will be Brexit babies. (Yes, that few.)

    Hampstead. Wimbledon. Richmond Park. And a few others.

    Seats with 65% Remain shares that feel that both the Conservative and Labour Parties don't care about them.

    I think the LDs will manage some pretty big swings in those seats. (But there aren't many of them.)
    The LDs role in this election appears to be to split the opposition vote and gift Boris a majority. It took 14 years to recover from that last time.
    That's to give them far too much credit for the outstanding job Corbyn is doing of driving sane voters away from Labour, while Johnson is doing the same for the Conservatives.
  • ThomasNasheThomasNashe Posts: 5,331
    edited October 2019
    On the constituency bets, it all depends where we are with Brexit. If there’s been a deal the LDs won’t pick up much beyond Richmond Park. On the other hand, if the Tories go into the election on a no deal manifesto, the LDs will be taking swathes of seats in London and the South-East.
  • Morris_DancerMorris_Dancer Posts: 61,806
    Mr. Nashe, depends how hard Remainers view things. War over, or war goes on?

    If being pro-EU remains a critical political identity that's very helpful for the Lib Dems.
  • SquareRootSquareRoot Posts: 7,095

    On the constituency bets, it all depends where we are with Brexit. If there’s been a deal the LDs won’t pick up much beyond Richmond Park. On the other hand, if the Tories go into the election on a no deal manifesto, the LDs will be taking swathes of seats in London and the South-East.

    I hope the LD's win big, The Tories don't deserve to be in office, Labour even more so and unelectable. .

    I can hardly believe myself typing it. I wont vote Tory again barring a miraculous turnabout which will not happen.
  • FoxyFoxy Posts: 48,722
    edited October 2019

    The problem with Bermondsey is that whilst they have a sane MP, he stands for pretty much the opposite of what Corbyn stands for. Which means that their local campaign is "Vote Labour to STOP Labour". I can see a Labour vote collapse, and not just there. Its evidenced by the swathe of byelections and the polls this year - a double digit Labour fall almost everywhere.

    What happens to these now former Labour voters will make the difference as to the result. If they all stay home and the Tory vote stays intact, Johnson wins big. If they go LD or Green or Brexit (depending on the area) AND the Tory vote also splinters because Brexit, then anything can happen in these seats.

    Remember that Impossible isn't a word that exists in politics...

    In 2017 lots of Lab MPs ran on a "Vote Labour to stop Labour" ticket. It worked pretty well, picking up Corbynista votes, while holding onto moderate Remain centrist. I think it quite possible to do so again. The difficulty for Labour is that this works where there is an incumbent, but not where there is a new candidate. It is a way of holding seats not gaining them.

    Outside those Lab held seats a Lab vote is a wasted vote, the LDs are the challengers in the rest of England. Sure, I expect the LDs to rack up a lot of second places (not pointless, as the next parliament also may be shortlived), but there will be unexpected gains too.

    I am not betting on seat numbers or constituencies yet. We have no idea either when that election will be (I expect Spring 2020), nor what our Brexit situation is. With BoZo's rehashed Irish backstop, I expect a lot of buyers remorse. Remainers will be more motivated to vote than Leavers.
  • Good morning folks.

    If Boris agrees a deal next week with the EU and presents it to the HOC, does this negate the Benn Act. In these circumstances he has agreed a deal so the HOC votes on the deal and if it falls no deal triggers on the 31st October

    Now I know this is controversial and of course those seeking to remain will dismiss it but I would be interested in posters views
  • rcs1000rcs1000 Posts: 57,236

    Mr. Nashe, depends how hard Remainers view things. War over, or war goes on?

    If being pro-EU remains a critical political identity that's very helpful for the Lib Dems.

    I'm with you here.

    There's a pro-eu poster on this site who believes that, if we revoked, then (because it had all been such a hassle) the question of leaving the EU wouldn't come up again in his lifetime. It's such an extraordinary view, I don't know if I should laugh, or laugh hysterically.

    But there are even more who think the same on the Brexit side. Somehow, all those people who turned out to march for the EU (or who cheered then on from their barstool or armchair) will shrug their shoulders and let it go.

  • Brexit Britain, your low birth rate, shrinking population, socially conformist, high national debt future lies before you. Grasp it with both hands!

    https://twitter.com/PaulEmbery/status/1182716114641530880?s=20

    You heard it here first, TBP's flagship policy will be to resuscitate the British whaling industry.
  • BarnesianBarnesian Posts: 8,605
    edited October 2019

    Good morning folks.

    If Boris Good morning folks.

    If Boris agrees a deal next week with the EU and presents it to the HOC, does this negate the Benn Act. In these circumstances he has agreed a deal so the HOC votes on the deal and if it falls no deal triggers on the 31st October

    Now I know this is controversial and of course those seeking to remain will dismiss it but I would be interested in posters views

    The Benn Act requires MPs approve the deal to avoid the extension letter.
  • TheJezziahTheJezziah Posts: 3,840
    Jonathan said:

    rcs1000 said:

    rcs1000 said:

    As a general rule, I think betting on the LibDems is for people with more money than sense. But I think they'll absolutely walk Richmond Park. If the majority is less than 7-8,000 I'd be very surprised.

    Do you remember that guy who became a regular on PB about 10 years ago. Think he lived in Canada. The poor sod bet his shirt on the Lib Dems, based purely on advice here. When he lost big time, the screams of agony were intolerable. He’s never been seen again. Buyer beware!
    My view is that there are about 8-12 seats in London and the South East that will be Brexit babies. (Yes, that few.)

    Hampstead. Wimbledon. Richmond Park. And a few others.

    Seats with 65% Remain shares that feel that both the Conservative and Labour Parties don't care about them.

    I think the LDs will manage some pretty big swings in those seats. (But there aren't many of them.)
    The LDs role in this election appears to be to split the opposition vote and gift Boris a majority. It took 14 years to recover from that last time.
    If Farage can stay within a certain percentage of the Lib Dems we could yet avoid disaster.

    Nigel Farage the hero of liberal democracy, who'd have thought it...
  • ThomasNasheThomasNashe Posts: 5,331

    Brexit Britain, your low birth rate, shrinking population, socially conformist, high national debt future lies before you. Grasp it with both hands!

    https://twitter.com/PaulEmbery/status/1182716114641530880?s=20

    You heard it here first, TBP's flagship policy will be to resuscitate the British whaling industry.

    I’m not sure that they quite share the WWII nostalgia of the Brexiteers?
  • Mr. Nashe, depends how hard Remainers view things. War over, or war goes on?

    If being pro-EU remains a critical political identity that's very helpful for the Lib Dems.

    Does that also depend on whether the long-term relationship is still up for grabs?
  • nichomarnichomar Posts: 7,483

    Good morning folks.

    If Boris agrees a deal next week with the EU and presents it to the HOC, does this negate the Benn Act. In these circumstances he has agreed a deal so the HOC votes on the deal and if it falls no deal triggers on the 31st October

    Now I know this is controversial and of course those seeking to remain will dismiss it but I would be interested in posters views

    My reading is that he has to pass a deal in HOC if not he has to send the letter. Or HOC votes to leave no deal
  • FoxyFoxy Posts: 48,722
    rcs1000 said:

    Mr. Nashe, depends how hard Remainers view things. War over, or war goes on?

    If being pro-EU remains a critical political identity that's very helpful for the Lib Dems.

    I'm with you here.

    There's a pro-eu poster on this site who believes that, if we revoked, then (because it had all been such a hassle) the question of leaving the EU wouldn't come up again in his lifetime. It's such an extraordinary view, I don't know if I should laugh, or laugh hysterically.

    But there are even more who think the same on the Brexit side. Somehow, all those people who turned out to march for the EU (or who cheered then on from their barstool or armchair) will shrug their shoulders and let it go.

    If Boris's Deal goes through, I expect an election during the Transition period to be fought on these grounds, bearing in mind the Dec 2020 end of Transition will be approaching quickly.

    LD's, Greens, Nationalists for Rejoin

    Lab for EEA plus Customs Union

    Con for minimal Canada Deal.

    BXP No Deal.


    I don't see that as nailed on for Con at all, indeed EEA+ from a minority Lab government very possible.
  • TheJezziahTheJezziah Posts: 3,840

    The problem with Bermondsey is that whilst they have a sane MP, he stands for pretty much the opposite of what Corbyn stands for. Which means that their local campaign is "Vote Labour to STOP Labour". I can see a Labour vote collapse, and not just there. Its evidenced by the swathe of byelections and the polls this year - a double digit Labour fall almost everywhere.

    What happens to these now former Labour voters will make the difference as to the result. If they all stay home and the Tory vote stays intact, Johnson wins big. If they go LD or Green or Brexit (depending on the area) AND the Tory vote also splinters because Brexit, then anything can happen in these seats.

    Remember that Impossible isn't a word that exists in politics...

    If we were to go by the post election survey from YouGov then voting for their local MP on an anti Corbyn basis (even if we assume every vote specified as because of local MP was anti Corbyn) was only 6%.

    https://yougov.co.uk/topics/politics/articles-reports/2017/07/11/why-people-voted-labour-or-conservative-2017-gener

    I think you are projecting your own views onto others.

  • HYUFDHYUFD Posts: 123,149
    edited October 2019
    Former SNP Health Secretary Alex Neil says the party should commit to declare independence for Scotland if it wins the next 2021 Holyrood elections if the UK government block an Independence referendum either before 2021 or after an SNP win.

    He then says if the SNP did declare independence they could then hold a referendum on any independence Treaty and Deal with the rest of the UK

    https://www.bbc.co.uk/news/uk-scotland-scotland-politics-50013582
  • ChrisChris Posts: 11,751
    edited October 2019

    Good morning folks.

    If Boris agrees a deal next week with the EU and presents it to the HOC, does this negate the Benn Act. In these circumstances he has agreed a deal so the HOC votes on the deal and if it falls no deal triggers on the 31st October

    Now I know this is controversial and of course those seeking to remain will dismiss it but I would be interested in posters views

    As I read it, the House of Commons has to approve any agreement when it sits a week today (and the House of Lords has to debate it) otherwise, Johnson has to request an extension until 31 January by no later than midnight the same day.

    (Edit: Or, as Nichomar says, the House of Commons has to pass a motion approving No Deal a week today (and the Lords have to debate it).)
  • HYUFDHYUFD Posts: 123,149
    I suspect Pence will stay, in 2004 there was talk of Bush replacing Cheney as VP with McCain but he kept Cheney on the ticket to shore up his base
  • YBarddCwscYBarddCwsc Posts: 7,172
    edited October 2019
    rcs1000 said:

    Mr. Nashe, depends how hard Remainers view things. War over, or war goes on?

    If being pro-EU remains a critical political identity that's very helpful for the Lib Dems.

    I'm with you here.

    There's a pro-eu poster on this site who believes that, if we revoked, then (because it had all been such a hassle) the question of leaving the EU wouldn't come up again in his lifetime. It's such an extraordinary view, I don't know if I should laugh, or laugh hysterically.

    But there are even more who think the same on the Brexit side. Somehow, all those people who turned out to march for the EU (or who cheered then on from their barstool or armchair) will shrug their shoulders and let it go.

    But, contrary examples can be found.

    When I lived in Quebec, the issue of Quebec independence was all-consuming.

    A satisfactory equilibrium was eventually reached, and the issue began to die away (not for everyone, of course, but for many).

    The Bloc Quebecois was once so large it was the Official Opposition in CANADA, even though only standing in Quebec ridings. It gradually lost its dominating position in Quebec in federal elections and fell to 3 seats in 2014. (I understand there may be a modest resurgence for the BQ in the forthcoming election.)

    I think a satisfactory half-way house solution will be found for the EU (perhaps even by Boris, he's duplicitous enough), and then the issue will lose most of its potency. Most of the Remainers I know personally agree we should leave (though absolutely not with a No Deal). The pb.com Remainers are by and large more hard-line.

    Similarly, the dominant position of the SNP in Scotland reminds me of the BQ at its height when it won every francophone riding.
  • HYUFDHYUFD Posts: 123,149
    edited October 2019

    Brexit Britain, your low birth rate, shrinking population, socially conformist, high national debt future lies before you. Grasp it with both hands!

    https://twitter.com/PaulEmbery/status/1182716114641530880?s=20

    You heard it here first, TBP's flagship policy will be to resuscitate the British whaling industry.

    Apart from France and New Zealand the UK has one of the highest birthrates in the West so unlikely we will emulate Japan on that front even if we sought to on others
  • Morris_DancerMorris_Dancer Posts: 61,806
    Betting Post

    F1: split one stake between backing Hulkenberg to not be classified at 3.3, and Ricciardo not to be classified at 3.3. The Renault pair have poor reliability, I think only Grosjean is worse this year. Weather, starting low down the grid in all likelihood, and reliability could all see the bet come good.

    Tricky betting on a race when the grid is uncertain.
  • Brexit Britain, your low birth rate, shrinking population, socially conformist, high national debt future lies before you. Grasp it with both hands!

    https://twitter.com/PaulEmbery/status/1182716114641530880?s=20

    You heard it here first, TBP's flagship policy will be to resuscitate the British whaling industry.

    I’m not sure that they quite share the WWII nostalgia of the Brexiteers?
    It may genuinely be a thing in certain circles, but I rarely, if ever, hear "WWII nostalgia" in real life. It's the same with the British Empire fixation that all Leavers are supposed to have. It just doesn't manifest itself among the people I know. I don't even see it in random folk out in public.
    I accept that the likes of Farage and Rees Mogg are into it, but does anyone genuinely experience it out in the real world?
  • ydoethurydoethur Posts: 71,424
    edited October 2019

    Jonathan said:

    rcs1000 said:

    rcs1000 said:

    As a general rule, I think betting on the LibDems is for people with more money than sense. But I think they'll absolutely walk Richmond Park. If the majority is less than 7-8,000 I'd be very surprised.

    Do you remember that guy who became a regular on PB about 10 years ago. Think he lived in Canada. The poor sod bet his shirt on the Lib Dems, based purely on advice here. When he lost big time, the screams of agony were intolerable. He’s never been seen again. Buyer beware!
    My view is that there are about 8-12 seats in London and the South East that will be Brexit babies. (Yes, that few.)

    Hampstead. Wimbledon. Richmond Park. And a few others.

    Seats with 65% Remain shares that feel that both the Conservative and Labour Parties don't care about them.

    I think the LDs will manage some pretty big swings in those seats. (But there aren't many of them.)
    The LDs role in this election appears to be to split the opposition vote and gift Boris a majority. It took 14 years to recover from that last time.
    If Farage can stay within a certain percentage of the Lib Dems we could yet avoid disaster.

    Nigel Farage the hero of liberal democracy, who'd have thought it...
    We can't avoid disaster because if Johnson loses Corbyn, who is Johnson on speed, gets in.

    Avoiding disaster requires either a genuine political earthquake or Corbyn to Leave post before the election.
  • ydoethurydoethur Posts: 71,424
    HYUFD said:

    Brexit Britain, your low birth rate, shrinking population, socially conformist, high national debt future lies before you. Grasp it with both hands!

    https://twitter.com/PaulEmbery/status/1182716114641530880?s=20

    You heard it here first, TBP's flagship policy will be to resuscitate the British whaling industry.

    Apart from France and New Zealand the UK has one of the highest birthrates in the West so unlikely we will emulate Japan on that front even if we sought to on others
    I wouldn't wish to. Sushi brings me out in a rash.
  • HYUFDHYUFD Posts: 123,149
    ydoethur said:

    Jonathan said:

    rcs1000 said:

    rcs1000 said:

    As a general rule, I think betting on the LibDems is for people with more money than sense. But I think they'll absolutely walk Richmond Park. If the majority is less than 7-8,000 I'd be very surprised.

    Do you remember that guy who became a regular on PB about 10 years ago. Think he lived in Canada. The poor sod bet his shirt on the Lib Dems, based purely on advice here. When he lost big time, the screams of agony were intolerable. He’s never been seen again. Buyer beware!
    My view is that there are about 8-12 seats in London and the South East that will be Brexit babies. (Yes, that few.)

    Hampstead. Wimbledon. Richmond Park. And a few others.

    Seats with 65% Remain shares that feel that both the Conservative and Labour Parties don't care about them.

    I think the LDs will manage some pretty big swings in those seats. (But there aren't many of them.)
    The LDs role in this election appears to be to split the opposition vote and gift Boris a majority. It took 14 years to recover from that last time.
    If Farage can stay within a certain percentage of the Lib Dems we could yet avoid disaster.

    Nigel Farage the hero of liberal democracy, who'd have thought it...
    We can't avoid disaster because if Johnson loses Corbyn, who is Johnson on speed, gets in.

    Avoiding disaster requires either a genuine political earthquake or Corbyn to Leave post before the election.
    Given neither the Liberal Democrats or Farage are likely to put Corbyn in Number 10 that is not really true.

    Corbyn needs either a Labour majority or a Labour plus SNP plus Plaid plus Green majority to become PM
  • Richard_TyndallRichard_Tyndall Posts: 32,570
    edited October 2019
    rcs1000 said:

    Mr. Nashe, depends how hard Remainers view things. War over, or war goes on?

    If being pro-EU remains a critical political identity that's very helpful for the Lib Dems.

    I'm with you here.

    There's a pro-eu poster on this site who believes that, if we revoked, then (because it had all been such a hassle) the question of leaving the EU wouldn't come up again in his lifetime. It's such an extraordinary view, I don't know if I should laugh, or laugh hysterically.

    But there are even more who think the same on the Brexit side. Somehow, all those people who turned out to march for the EU (or who cheered then on from their barstool or armchair) will shrug their shoulders and let it go.

    I do belueve there will continue to be significant pressure to rejoin and why not? What will be lacking is the justified feeling of betrayal and failure of democracy that will exist if we fail to Leave. I am not sure how much difference that will make if any.

    But also bear in mind that the Remain side keep telling us that much of the opposition to Leave is because of the threat of a No Deal. If Johnson does get a deal then again that will peel off some percentage from the irreconcilables
  • david_herdsondavid_herdson Posts: 17,744
    Jonathan said:

    rcs1000 said:

    rcs1000 said:

    As a general rule, I think betting on the LibDems is for people with more money than sense. But I think they'll absolutely walk Richmond Park. If the majority is less than 7-8,000 I'd be very surprised.

    Do you remember that guy who became a regular on PB about 10 years ago. Think he lived in Canada. The poor sod bet his shirt on the Lib Dems, based purely on advice here. When he lost big time, the screams of agony were intolerable. He’s never been seen again. Buyer beware!
    My view is that there are about 8-12 seats in London and the South East that will be Brexit babies. (Yes, that few.)

    Hampstead. Wimbledon. Richmond Park. And a few others.

    Seats with 65% Remain shares that feel that both the Conservative and Labour Parties don't care about them.

    I think the LDs will manage some pretty big swings in those seats. (But there aren't many of them.)
    The LDs role in this election appears to be to split the opposition vote and gift Boris a majority. It took 14 years to recover from that last time.
    Well, Labour seem intent on re-running 1983 so why shouldn't the Lib Dens join the party?
  • ydoethurydoethur Posts: 71,424
    edited October 2019
    HYUFD said:

    ydoethur said:

    Jonathan said:

    rcs1000 said:

    rcs1000 said:

    As a general rule, I think betting on the LibDems is for people with more money than sense. But I think they'll absolutely walk Richmond Park. If the majority is less than 7-8,000 I'd be very surprised.

    Do you remember that guy who became a regular on PB about 10 years ago. Think he lived in Canada. The poor sod bet his shirt on the Lib Dems, based purely on advice here. When he lost big time, the screams of agony were intolerable. He’s never been seen again. Buyer beware!
    My view is that there are about 8-12 seats in London and the South East that will be Brexit babies. (Yes, that few.)

    Hampstead. Wimbledon. Richmond Park. And a few others.

    Seats with 65% Remain shares that feel that both the Conservative and Labour Parties don't care about them.

    I think the LDs will manage some pretty big swings in those seats. (But there aren't many of them.)
    The LDs role in this election appears to be to split the opposition vote and gift Boris a majority. It took 14 years to recover from that last time.
    If Farage can stay within a certain percentage of the Lib Dems we could yet avoid disaster.

    Nigel Farage the hero of liberal democracy, who'd have thought it...
    We can't avoid disaster because if Johnson loses Corbyn, who is Johnson on speed, gets in.

    Avoiding disaster requires either a genuine political earthquake or Corbyn to Leave post before the election.
    Given neither the Liberal Democrats or Farage are likely to put Corbyn in Number 10 that is not really true.

    Corbyn needs either a Labour majority or a Labour plus SNP plus Plaid plus Green majority to become PM
    If Johnson loses Corbyn becomes PM.

    Although I am amazed anyone can think of Johnson's record as anything but a disaster, so in a sense we haven't avoided it.
  • HYUFDHYUFD Posts: 123,149
    edited October 2019
    ydoethur said:

    HYUFD said:

    ydoethur said:

    Jonathan said:

    rcs1000 said:

    rcs1000 said:

    As a general rule, I think betting on the LibDems is for people with more money than sense. But I think they'll absolutely walk Richmond Park. If the majority is less than 7-8,000 I'd be very surprised.

    Do you remember that guy who became a regular on PB about 10 years ago. Think he lived in Canada. The poor sod bet his shirt on the Lib Dems, based purely on advice here. When he lost big time, the screams of agony were intolerable. He’s never been seen again. Buyer beware!
    My view is that there are about 8-12 seats in London and the South East that will be Brexit babies. (Yes, that few.)

    Hampstead. Wimbledon. Richmond Park. And a few others.

    Seats with 65% Remain shares that feel that both the Conservative and Labour Parties don't care about them.

    I think the LDs will manage some pretty big swings in those seats. (But there aren't many of them.)
    The LDs role in this election appears to be to split the opposition vote and gift Boris a majority. It took 14 years to recover from that last time.
    If Farage can stay within a certain percentage of the Lib Dems we could yet avoid disaster.

    Nigel Farage the hero of liberal democracy, who'd have thought it...
    We can't avoid disaster because if Johnson loses Corbyn, who is Johnson on speed, gets in.

    Avoiding disaster requires either a genuine political earthquake or Corbyn to Leave post before the election.
    Given neither the Liberal Democrats or Farage are likely to put Corbyn in Number 10 that is not really true.

    Corbyn needs either a Labour majority or a Labour plus SNP plus Plaid plus Green majority to become PM
    If Johnson loses Corbyn becomes PM.

    Although I am amazed anyone can think of Johnson's record as anything but a disaster, so in a sense we haven't avoided it.
    Not necessarily.

    If Johnson loses the Tory majority even with the DUP he could still stay PM if he leads the largest party and the Tories and DUP (and any Brexit Party MPs) have more seats combined than Labour, the SNP, Plaid and the Greens combined as if the LDs hold the balance of power they will refuse to make Corbyn PM either.

    It is thus possible LD MPs could keep Boris as PM by default
  • Morris_DancerMorris_Dancer Posts: 61,806
    Mr. Romford, that's a good point we ought not forget. Any 'deal' done is not intended to be for the long term.

    And, as I mentioned a few times before (sorry for the repetition), another key decision is whether pro-EU MPs try to tag on a referendum amendment to a deal vote.
  • eristdooferistdoof Posts: 5,065

    Mr. Nashe, depends how hard Remainers view things. War over, or war goes on?

    If being pro-EU remains a critical political identity that's very helpful for the Lib Dems.

    1st: It's not a war.
    2nd: in 12 months people will still be campaigning for what they think is best for the UK. Some will think that after Brexit, that a return to the EU will be best for the country. Others will think that the UK will always be better off outside the EU. I can see that EU membership will become less of an issue once short- to mid-term economic and social policies become more important.
  • DavidLDavidL Posts: 53,865
    rcs1000 said:

    rcs1000 said:

    As a general rule, I think betting on the LibDems is for people with more money than sense. But I think they'll absolutely walk Richmond Park. If the majority is less than 7-8,000 I'd be very surprised.

    Do you remember that guy who became a regular on PB about 10 years ago. Think he lived in Canada. The poor sod bet his shirt on the Lib Dems, based purely on advice here. When he lost big time, the screams of agony were intolerable. He’s never been seen again. Buyer beware!
    My view is that there are about 8-12 seats in London and the South East that will be Brexit babies. (Yes, that few.)

    Hampstead. Wimbledon. Richmond Park. And a few others.

    Seats with 65% Remain shares that feel that both the Conservative and Labour Parties don't care about them.

    I think the LDs will manage some pretty big swings in those seats. (But there aren't many of them.)
    If we Brexit, and its still a big if, and if the election is more than 6 months afterwards I am not convinced there will even be that many. It may prove to be ancient history.
  • DavidLDavidL Posts: 53,865
    Btw anyone watching the 1.59 challenge? The level of support is extreme but so is the aspiration. Its Roger Bannister territory.
  • philiphphiliph Posts: 4,704
    ydoethur said:

    HYUFD said:

    ydoethur said:

    Jonathan said:

    rcs1000 said:

    rcs1000 said:

    As a general rule, I think betting on the LibDems is for people with more money than sense. But I think they'll absolutely walk Richmond Park. If the majority is less than 7-8,000 I'd be very surprised.

    Do you remember that guy who became a regular on PB about 10 years ago. Think he lived in Canada. The poor sod bet his shirt on the Lib Dems, based purely on advice here. When he lost big time, the screams of agony were intolerable. He’s never been seen again. Buyer beware!
    My view is that there are about 8-12 seats in London and the South East that will be Brexit babies. (Yes, that few.)

    Hampstead. Wimbledon. Richmond Park. And a few others.

    Seats with 65% Remain shares that feel that both the Conservative and Labour Parties don't care about them.

    I think the LDs will manage some pretty big swings in those seats. (But there aren't many of them.)
    The LDs role in this election appears to be to split the opposition vote and gift Boris a majority. It took 14 years to recover from that last time.
    If Farage can stay within a certain percentage of the Lib Dems we could yet avoid disaster.

    Nigel Farage the hero of liberal democracy, who'd have thought it...
    We can't avoid disaster because if Johnson loses Corbyn, who is Johnson on speed, gets in.

    Avoiding disaster requires either a genuine political earthquake or Corbyn to Leave post before the election.
    Given neither the Liberal Democrats or Farage are likely to put Corbyn in Number 10 that is not really true.

    Corbyn needs either a Labour majority or a Labour plus SNP plus Plaid plus Green majority to become PM
    If Johnson loses Corbyn becomes PM.

    Although I am amazed anyone can think of Johnson's record as anything but a disaster, so in a sense we haven't avoided it.
    I would suggest Johnson has no record as PM at this juncture. Judge him when he has enacted legislation rather than assumption, prejudice and expectation.
  • eristdooferistdoof Posts: 5,065
    edited October 2019

    Jonathan said:

    rcs1000 said:

    rcs1000 said:

    As a general rule, I think betting on the LibDems is for people with more money than sense. But I think they'll absolutely walk Richmond Park. If the majority is less than 7-8,000 I'd be very surprised.

    Do you remember that guy who became a regular on PB about 10 years ago. Think he lived in Canada. The poor sod bet his shirt on the Lib Dems, based purely on advice here. When he lost big time, the screams of agony were intolerable. He’s never been seen again. Buyer beware!
    My view is that there are about 8-12 seats in London and the South East that will be Brexit babies. (Yes, that few.)

    Hampstead. Wimbledon. Richmond Park. And a few others.

    Seats with 65% Remain shares that feel that both the Conservative and Labour Parties don't care about them.

    I think the LDs will manage some pretty big swings in those seats. (But there aren't many of them.)
    The LDs role in this election appears to be to split the opposition vote and gift Boris a majority. It took 14 years to recover from that last time.
    Well, Labour seem intent on re-running 1983 so why shouldn't the Lib Dens join the party?
    My sarcasm monitor needs recharging. It was slow to register to this one!
  • eristdooferistdoof Posts: 5,065
    edited October 2019
    philiph said:

    ydoethur said:

    HYUFD said:

    ydoethur said:

    Jonathan said:

    rcs1000 said:

    rcs1000 said:

    As a general rule, I think betting on the LibDems is for people with more money than sense. But I think they'll absolutely walk Richmond Park. If the majority is less than 7-8,000 I'd be very surprised.

    Do you remember that guy who became a regular on PB about 10 years ago. Think he lived in Canada. The poor sod bet his shirt on the Lib Dems, based purely on advice here. When he lost big time, the screams of agony were intolerable. He’s never been seen again. Buyer beware!
    My view is that there are about 8-12 seats in London and the South East that will be Brexit babies. (Yes, that few.)

    Hampstead. Wimbledon. Richmond Park. And a few others.

    Seats with 65% Remain shares that feel that both the Conservative and Labour Parties don't care about them.

    I think the LDs will manage some pretty big swings in those seats. (But there aren't many of them.)
    The LDs role in this election appears to be to split the opposition vote and gift Boris a majority. It took 14 years to recover from that last time.
    If Farage can stay within a certain percentage of the Lib Dems we could yet avoid disaster.

    Nigel Farage the hero of liberal democracy, who'd have thought it...
    We can't avoid disaster because if Johnson loses Corbyn, who is Johnson on speed, gets in.

    Avoiding disaster requires either a genuine political earthquake or Corbyn to Leave post before the election.
    Given neither the Liberal Democrats or Farage are likely to put Corbyn in Number 10 that is not really true.

    Corbyn needs either a Labour majority or a Labour plus SNP plus Plaid plus Green majority to become PM
    If Johnson loses Corbyn becomes PM.

    Although I am amazed anyone can think of Johnson's record as anything but a disaster, so in a sense we haven't avoided it.
    I would suggest Johnson has no record as PM at this juncture. Judge him when he has enacted legislation rather than assumption, prejudice and expectation.
    Does Mr Johnson really come accross to you as a level headed leader of government, who has just had the misfortune to take over the role of PM in the middle of a Political Hurricane?
  • DavidLDavidL Posts: 53,865
    philiph said:

    ydoethur said:

    HYUFD said:

    ydoethur said:

    Jonathan said:

    rcs1000 said:

    rcs1000 said:

    As a general rule, I think betting on the LibDems is for people with more money than sense. But I think they'll absolutely walk Richmond Park. If the majority is less than 7-8,000 I'd be very surprised.

    Do you remember that guy who became a regular on PB about 10 years ago. Think he lived in Canada. The poor sod bet his shirt on the Lib Dems, based purely on advice here. When he lost big time, the screams of agony were intolerable. He’s never been seen again. Buyer beware!
    My view is that there are about 8-12 seats in London and the South East that will be Brexit babies. (Yes, that few.)

    Hampstead. Wimbledon. Richmond Park. And a few others.

    Seats with 65% Remain shares that feel that both the Conservative and Labour Parties don't care about them.

    I think the LDs will manage some pretty big swings in those seats. (But there aren't many of them.)
    The LDs role in this election appears to be to split the opposition vote and gift Boris a majority. It took 14 years to recover from that last time.
    If Farage can stay within a certain percentage of the Lib Dems we could yet avoid disaster.

    Nigel Farage the hero of liberal democracy, who'd have thought it...
    We can't avoid disaster because if Johnson loses Corbyn, who is Johnson on speed, gets in.

    Avoiding disaster requires either a genuine political earthquake or Corbyn to Leave post before the election.
    Given neither the Liberal Democrats or Farage are likely to put Corbyn in Number 10 that is not really true.

    Corbyn needs either a Labour majority or a Labour plus SNP plus Plaid plus Green majority to become PM
    If Johnson loses Corbyn becomes PM.

    Although I am amazed anyone can think of Johnson's record as anything but a disaster, so in a sense we haven't avoided it.
    I would suggest Johnson has no record as PM at this juncture. Judge him when he has enacted legislation rather than assumption, prejudice and expectation.
    If he delivers Brexit.....if.
  • Morris_DancerMorris_Dancer Posts: 61,806
    Mr. Doof, and I'm not a morris dancer who lives in a castle and is working on a space cannon and army of land-walking superfish led by telepathically gifted octo-lemurs.
  • JonathanJonathan Posts: 21,675

    Jonathan said:

    rcs1000 said:

    rcs1000 said:

    As a general rule, I think betting on the LibDems is for people with more money than sense. But I think they'll absolutely walk Richmond Park. If the majority is less than 7-8,000 I'd be very surprised.

    Do you remember that guy who became a regular on PB about 10 years ago. Think he lived in Canada. The poor sod bet his shirt on the Lib Dems, based purely on advice here. When he lost big time, the screams of agony were intolerable. He’s never been seen again. Buyer beware!
    My view is that there are about 8-12 seats in London and the South East that will be Brexit babies. (Yes, that few.)

    Hampstead. Wimbledon. Richmond Park. And a few others.

    Seats with 65% Remain shares that feel that both the Conservative and Labour Parties don't care about them.

    I think the LDs will manage some pretty big swings in those seats. (But there aren't many of them.)
    The LDs role in this election appears to be to split the opposition vote and gift Boris a majority. It took 14 years to recover from that last time.
    Well, Labour seem intent on re-running 1983 so why shouldn't the Lib Dens join the party?
    Because history tells us it’s a self-defeating dead-end.
  • nichomarnichomar Posts: 7,483
    If the deal passes I think the lib dems will adopt a policy of rejoining in the long term but seeking as close a relationship as possible whist the actual departure terms are discussed during the transition period. Whilst it is all rumors what is most concerning about the potential deal is the apparent objective to scrap adherence to EU employment and environmental laws leaving the Torys free to race to the bottom.
  • DavidLDavidL Posts: 53,865
    edited October 2019
    DavidL said:

    Btw anyone watching the 1.59 challenge? The level of support is extreme but so is the aspiration. Its Roger Bannister territory.

    This is genuinely incredible. 10 seconds within the pace. 2km to go. The IAAF can go stuff themselves.
  • ChrisChris Posts: 11,751
    HYUFD said:
    Any thoughts about the tone of that?
  • HYUFDHYUFD Posts: 123,149
    nichomar said:

    If the deal passes I think the lib dems will adopt a policy of rejoining in the long term but seeking as close a relationship as possible whist the actual departure terms are discussed during the transition period. Whilst it is all rumors what is most concerning about the potential deal is the apparent objective to scrap adherence to EU employment and environmental laws leaving the Torys free to race to the bottom.

    I think the LDs would go for full single market membership straight away if we had left the EU and then rejoin the EU again if it looked like there was a majority for it, revoke no longer being an option
  • nichomarnichomar Posts: 7,483
    Jonathan said:

    Jonathan said:

    rcs1000 said:

    rcs1000 said:

    As a general rule, I think betting on the LibDems is for people with more money than sense. But I think they'll absolutely walk Richmond Park. If the majority is less than 7-8,000 I'd be very surprised.

    Do you remember that guy who became a regular on PB about 10 years ago. Think he lived in Canada. The poor sod bet his shirt on the Lib Dems, based purely on advice here. When he lost big time, the screams of agony were intolerable. He’s never been seen again. Buyer beware!
    My view is that there are about 8-12 seats in London and the South East that will be Brexit babies. (Yes, that few.)

    Hampstead. Wimbledon. Richmond Park. And a few others.

    Seats with 65% Remain shares that feel that both the Conservative and Labour Parties don't care about them.

    I think the LDs will manage some pretty big swings in those seats. (But there aren't many of them.)
    The LDs role in this election appears to be to split the opposition vote and gift Boris a majority. It took 14 years to recover from that last time.
    Well, Labour seem intent on re-running 1983 so why shouldn't the Lib Dens join the party?
    Because history tells us it’s a self-defeating dead-end.
    Well change your leader or leave the pitch clear, do you just want all the other parties to leave it to ‘the big boys’ to slug it out?
  • TGOHF2TGOHF2 Posts: 584
    DavidL said:

    Btw anyone watching the 1.59 challenge? The level of support is extreme but so is the aspiration. Its Roger Bannister territory.

    Is he on the same juice as Mo ?
  • OllyTOllyT Posts: 5,006
    Jonathan said:

    rcs1000 said:

    rcs1000 said:

    As a general rule, I think betting on the LibDems is for people with more money than sense. But I think they'll absolutely walk Richmond Park. If the majority is less than 7-8,000 I'd be very surprised.

    Do you remember that guy who became a regular on PB about 10 years ago. Think he lived in Canada. The poor sod bet his shirt on the Lib Dems, based purely on advice here. When he lost big time, the screams of agony were intolerable. He’s never been seen again. Buyer beware!
    My view is that there are about 8-12 seats in London and the South East that will be Brexit babies. (Yes, that few.)

    Hampstead. Wimbledon. Richmond Park. And a few others.

    Seats with 65% Remain shares that feel that both the Conservative and Labour Parties don't care about them.

    I think the LDs will manage some pretty big swings in those seats. (But there aren't many of them.)
    The LDs role in this election appears to be to split the opposition vote and gift Boris a majority. It took 14 years to recover from that last time.
    That's largely down to Labour's choice of leader in each case, Foot and Corbyn. TAs they ay, those who don't learn from history are destined to repeat it .

    You can't blame moderate ex-Labour members like myself voting Lib Dem when the Corbynistas have spent the last few years telling us to sod off.
  • eristdooferistdoof Posts: 5,065
    DavidL said:

    DavidL said:

    Btw anyone watching the 1.59 challenge? The level of support is extreme but so is the aspiration. Its Roger Bannister territory.

    This is genuinely incredible. 10 seconds within the pace. 2km to go. The IAAF can go stuff themselves.
    While it is impressive, there are good reasons why there are conditions to gaining a world record. Relax rules about all runners needing to run 40Km and you could the allow any kind of doping.
  • DavidLDavidL Posts: 53,865
    Kipchoge, greatest runner in history
  • JonathanJonathan Posts: 21,675
    nichomar said:

    Jonathan said:

    Jonathan said:

    rcs1000 said:

    rcs1000 said:

    As a general rule, I think betting on the LibDems is for people with more money than sense. But I think they'll absolutely walk Richmond Park. If the majority is less than 7-8,000 I'd be very surprised.

    Do you remember that guy who became a regular on PB about 10 years ago. Think he lived in Canada. The poor sod bet his shirt on the Lib Dems, based purely on advice here. When he lost big time, the screams of agony were intolerable. He’s never been seen again. Buyer beware!
    My view is that there are about 8-12 seats in London and the South East that will be Brexit babies. (Yes, that few.)

    Hampstead. Wimbledon. Richmond Park. And a few others.

    Seats with 65% Remain shares that feel that both the Conservative and Labour Parties don't care about them.

    I think the LDs will manage some pretty big swings in those seats. (But there aren't many of them.)
    The LDs role in this election appears to be to split the opposition vote and gift Boris a majority. It took 14 years to recover from that last time.
    Well, Labour seem intent on re-running 1983 so why shouldn't the Lib Dens join the party?
    Because history tells us it’s a self-defeating dead-end.
    Well change your leader or leave the pitch clear, do you just want all the other parties to leave it to ‘the big boys’ to slug it out?
    FPTP is a fact political parties need to remember.
  • HYUFDHYUFD Posts: 123,149
    Chris said:

    HYUFD said:
    Any thoughts about the tone of that?
    The DUP still oppose the backstop but would accept some single market alignment in Northern Ireland with the consent of NI representatives and the NI people
  • kle4kle4 Posts: 96,163
    Barnesian said:

    Good morning folks.

    If Boris Good morning folks.

    If Boris agrees a deal next week with the EU and presents it to the HOC, does this negate the Benn Act. In these circumstances he has agreed a deal so the HOC votes on the deal and if it falls no deal triggers on the 31st October

    Now I know this is controversial and of course those seeking to remain will dismiss it but I would be interested in posters views

    The Benn Act requires MPs approve the deal to avoid the extension letter.
    Psychologically I think so many mps have already accepted the inevitability of extension by passing the Benn Act that a few crucial waverers wont back a deal if it is brought before them. They already know they have more time to put off the hard choice and are mentally half committed to it already.
  • kle4kle4 Posts: 96,163
    philiph said:

    ydoethur said:

    HYUFD said:

    ydoethur said:

    Jonathan said:

    rcs1000 said:

    rcs1000 said:

    As a general rule, I think betting on the LibDems is for people with more money than sense. But I think they'll absolutely walk Richmond Park. If the majority is less than 7-8,000 I'd be very surprised.

    Do you remember that guy who became a regular on PB about 10 years ago. Think he lived in Canada. The poor sod bet his shirt on the Lib Dems, based purely on advice here. When he lost big time, the screams of agony were intolerable. He’s never been seen again. Buyer beware!
    My view is that there are about 8-12 seats in London and the South East that will be Brexit babies. (Yes, that few.)

    Hampstead. Wimbledon. Richmond Park. And a few others.

    Seats with 65% Remain shares that feel that both the Conservative and Labour Parties don't care about them.

    I think the LDs will manage some pretty big swings in those seats. (But there aren't many of them.)
    The LDs role in this election appears to be to split the opposition vote and gift Boris a majority. It took 14 years to recover from that last time.
    If Farage can stay within a certain percentage of the Lib Dems we could yet avoid disaster.

    Nigel Farage the hero of liberal democracy, who'd have thought it...
    We can't avoid disaster because if Johnson loses Corbyn, who is Johnson on speed, gets in.

    Avoiding disaster requires either a genuine political earthquake or Corbyn to Leave post before the election.
    Given neither the Liberal Democrats or Farage are likely to put Corbyn in Number 10 that is not really true.

    Corbyn needs either a Labour majority or a Labour plus SNP plus Plaid plus Green majority to become PM
    If Johnson loses Corbyn becomes PM.

    Although I am amazed anyone can think of Johnson's record as anything but a disaster, so in a sense we haven't avoided it.
    I would suggest Johnson has no record as PM at this juncture. Judge him when he has enacted legislation rather than assumption, prejudice and expectation.
    We are not supposed to take a reasonable view based on on his views, comments, behaviour etc? Hes to be treated as a blank slate because hes failed to actually take any legislative action?
  • DavidLDavidL Posts: 53,865
    eristdoof said:

    DavidL said:

    DavidL said:

    Btw anyone watching the 1.59 challenge? The level of support is extreme but so is the aspiration. Its Roger Bannister territory.

    This is genuinely incredible. 10 seconds within the pace. 2km to go. The IAAF can go stuff themselves.
    While it is impressive, there are good reasons why there are conditions to gaining a world record. Relax rules about all runners needing to run 40Km and you could the allow any kind of doping.
    People said the same about Bannister and his pacemakers. Who remembers that now? It is an unbelievable achievement.
  • HYUFDHYUFD Posts: 123,149
    edited October 2019
    OllyT said:

    Jonathan said:

    rcs1000 said:

    rcs1000 said:

    As a general rule, I think betting on the LibDems is for people with more money than sense. But I think they'll absolutely walk Richmond Park. If the majority is less than 7-8,000 I'd be very surprised.

    Do you remember that guy who became a regular on PB about 10 years ago. Think he lived in Canada. The poor sod bet his shirt on the Lib Dems, based purely on advice here. When he lost big time, the screams of agony were intolerable. He’s never been seen again. Buyer beware!
    My view is that there are about 8-12 seats in London and the South East that will be Brexit babies. (Yes, that few.)

    Hampstead. Wimbledon. Richmond Park. And a few others.

    Seats with 65% Remain shares that feel that both the Conservative and Labour Parties don't care about them.

    I think the LDs will manage some pretty big swings in those seats. (But there aren't many of them.)
    The LDs role in this election appears to be to split the opposition vote and gift Boris a majority. It took 14 years to recover from that last time.
    That's largely down to Labour's choice of leader in each case, Foot and Corbyn. TAs they ay, those who don't learn from history are destined to repeat it .

    You can't blame moderate ex-Labour members like myself voting Lib Dem when the Corbynistas have spent the last few years telling us to sod off.
    In 1983 Foot resigned after Labour were just 2% above the SDP/Liberal Alliance at that general election and the more moderate Kinnock replaced him as Labour leader and took on Militant.

    If Labour replace Corbyn with a more moderate leader after the next general election prepared to take on Momentum they could still return to power eventually, if not and Corbynism still controls the Labour leadership hard not to see the Liberal Democrats overtaking them ultimately as the main party of the centre left, leaving Labour with the hard left
  • DruttDrutt Posts: 1,124
    1:59. Superhuman from Kipchoge
  • kle4kle4 Posts: 96,163

    Mr. Romford, that's a good point we ought not forget. Any 'deal' done is not intended to be for the long term.

    And, as I mentioned a few times before (sorry for the repetition), another key decision is whether pro-EU MPs try to tag on a referendum amendment to a deal vote.

    If it looks like passing of course they would.
  • philiph said:

    ydoethur said:

    HYUFD said:

    ydoethur said:

    Jonathan said:

    rcs1000 said:

    rcs1000 said:

    As a general rule, I think betting on the LibDems is for people with more money than sense. But I think they'll absolutely walk Richmond Park. If the majority is less than 7-8,000 I'd be very surprised.

    Do you remember that guy who became a regular on PB about 10 years ago. Think he lived in Canada. The poor sod bet his shirt on the Lib Dems, based purely on advice here. When he lost big time, the screams of agony were intolerable. He’s never been seen again. Buyer beware!
    My view is that there are about 8-12 seats in London and the South East that will be Brexit babies. (Yes, that few.)

    Hampstead. Wimbledon. Richmond Park. And a few others.

    Seats with 65% Remain shares that feel that both the Conservative and Labour Parties don't care about them.

    I think the LDs will manage some pretty big swings in those seats. (But there aren't many of them.)
    The LDs role in this election appears to be to split the opposition vote and gift Boris a majority. It took 14 years to recover from that last time.
    If Farage can stay within a certain percentage of the Lib Dems we could yet avoid disaster.

    Nigel Farage the hero of liberal democracy, who'd have thought it...
    We can't avoid disaster because if Johnson loses Corbyn, who is Johnson on speed, gets in.

    Avoiding disaster requires either a genuine political earthquake or Corbyn to Leave post before the election.
    Given neither the Liberal Democrats or Farage are likely to put Corbyn in Number 10 that is not really true.

    Corbyn needs either a Labour majority or a Labour plus SNP plus Plaid plus Green majority to become PM
    If Johnson loses Corbyn becomes PM.

    Although I am amazed anyone can think of Johnson's record as anything but a disaster, so in a sense we haven't avoided it.
    I would suggest Johnson has no record as PM at this juncture. Judge him when he has enacted legislation rather than assumption, prejudice and expectation.
    He has a record though, else why was he chosen by the Tory selectorate? Are the rest of us who were unable to have a say on his elevation not allowed to consider that record?
  • On topic #3

    Luckily, Trump Is an Unstable Non-Genius https://www.nytimes.com/2019/10/10/opinion/donald-trump.html
  • kle4kle4 Posts: 96,163

    Brexit Britain, your low birth rate, shrinking population, socially conformist, high national debt future lies before you. Grasp it with both hands!

    https://twitter.com/PaulEmbery/status/1182716114641530880?s=20

    You heard it here first, TBP's flagship policy will be to resuscitate the British whaling industry.

    I’m not sure that they quite share the WWII nostalgia of the Brexiteers?
    It may genuinely be a thing in certain circles, but I rarely, if ever, hear "WWII nostalgia" in real life. It's the same with the British Empire fixation that all Leavers are supposed to have. It just doesn't manifest itself among the people I know. I don't even see it in random folk out in public.
    I accept that the likes of Farage and Rees Mogg are into it, but does anyone genuinely experience it out in the real world?
    No, and it's a very lazy stereotype, but that various mps, commentators and vox pops demonstrate it makes it infuriatingly impossible to disavow completely.
  • ChrisChris Posts: 11,751
    HYUFD said:

    Chris said:

    HYUFD said:
    Any thoughts about the tone of that?
    The DUP still oppose the backstop but would accept some single market alignment in Northern Ireland with the consent of NI representatives and the NI people
    Yes, obviously that's what it said. It was the tone I was asking about.
  • El_CapitanoEl_Capitano Posts: 4,239
    nichomar said:

    If the deal passes I think the lib dems will adopt a policy of rejoining in the long term but seeking as close a relationship as possible whist the actual departure terms are discussed during the transition period.

    Yes.

    I very, very strongly suspect that their policy will be EFTA+CU if they get into Government (and potentially as a condition of any coalition), as a stepping stone to a medium-term aim of rejoining the EU.
  • eristdooferistdoof Posts: 5,065
    HYUFD said:

    Chris said:

    HYUFD said:
    Any thoughts about the tone of that?
    The DUP still oppose the backstop but would accept some single market alignment in Northern Ireland with the consent of NI representatives and the NI people
    How does this fit in with Brexit on 31st October? According to this plan, the DUP will vote for a bill, on the condition that Brexit can only be enacted following the result of a referendum in NI. Meaning Boris will still have to ask for an extension.
  • Morris_DancerMorris_Dancer Posts: 61,806
    Mr. kle4, they may try for a referendum amendment even if it's certain to fail.

    Lib Dems can then use it to polish their already shiny pro-EU credentials and contrast that with Labour.
  • NigelbNigelb Posts: 71,236
    Jonathan said:

    nichomar said:

    Jonathan said:

    Jonathan said:

    rcs1000 said:

    rcs1000 said:

    As a general rule, I think betting on the LibDems is for people with more money than sense. But I think they'll absolutely walk Richmond Park. If the majority is less than 7-8,000 I'd be very surprised.

    Do you remember that guy who became a regular on PB about 10 years ago. Think he lived in Canada. The poor sod bet his shirt on the Lib Dems, based purely on advice here. When he lost big time, the screams of agony were intolerable. He’s never been seen again. Buyer beware!
    My view is that there are about 8-12 seats in London and the South East that will be Brexit babies. (Yes, that few.)

    Hampstead. Wimbledon. Richmond Park. And a few others.

    Seats with 65% Remain shares that feel that both the Conservative and Labour Parties don't care about them.

    I think the LDs will manage some pretty big swings in those seats. (But there aren't many of them.)
    The LDs role in this election appears to be to split the opposition vote and gift Boris a majority. It took 14 years to recover from that last time.
    Well, Labour seem intent on re-running 1983 so why shouldn't the Lib Dens join the party?
    Because history tells us it’s a self-defeating dead-end.
    Well change your leader or leave the pitch clear, do you just want all the other parties to leave it to ‘the big boys’ to slug it out?
    FPTP is a fact political parties need to remember.
    That Corbyn is not an acceptable alternative to unacceptable Johnson is a fact too.
This discussion has been closed.