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politicalbetting.com » Blog Archive » Some brighter polling news for the Tories – today’s YouGov

SystemSystem Posts: 11,703
edited November 2013 in General

politicalbetting.com » Blog Archive » Some brighter polling news for the Tories – today’s YouGov has the LAB lead down to just 4pc

Like all such moves we have to be careful before jumping to conclusions. It might just be a blip or it could be a first indicator that the better economic news is beginning to resonate. Dave Cameron and his team will surely be hoping for the latter.

Read the full story here


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Comments

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    I blame Falkirk!

    Also blame Falkirk for the fact that it is raining and I have been struggling to get on the site.
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    "We will lose the next election unless we shake off our reputation as the party of the rich, says minister "

    I blame in this order:

    Falkirk
    The BBC
    The Guardian
    Red Ed
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    Interestingly the proportion of 2010 LDs in this survey now saying LAB is, at 21‰ the lowest for a long time.
    I'm struggling to reconcile that to the headline poll results of Labour on 38% and Lib Dems on 10%

    Are the Lib Dems losing more voters to UKIP and the Conservatives than normal?

    The Conservative retention figure is not far off Labour's 78% compared to 84%. Is that unusual?
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    MillsyMillsy Posts: 900
    I think polling should be banned until the general election campaign
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    tim said:

    Tory morale appears to have fallen off a cliff in the last 48 hours.
    Do they not know we've been tracking it on here since the Syria farce led to the big leader ratings shift which fed into VI?

    "Always wrong, never learn"
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    DavidLDavidL Posts: 51,387
    edited November 2013
    There has been a fairly consistent downward trend in the lead since the Miliband energy surge peaked about 10 days ago (without looking it up) at around 12%. It may be time for Ed's next wheeze.

    On a slightly less positive note for the tories the lead is still moving around much more on their own performance rather than Labour's. Although this poll has Labour out of the 40s their vote remains much more stable than the tory vote.

    Still much to do methinks.
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    JosiasJessopJosiasJessop Posts: 39,061

    I blame Falkirk!

    Also blame Falkirk for the fact that it is raining and I have been struggling to get on the site.

    As you are on, I will ask you a question. This time, try not to get into trouble with the mods for answering it with a "Look squirrel!" diversion. It is a simple enough question:

    Do you think what happened at Falkirk and Grangemouth was right?
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    Isn't the big mover the UKIP figure, at just 11%? I don't have the YouGov trend figures to hand but hasn't it usually been mid-teens?

    Whatever, I'd be inclined to see this as a blip (won't say rogue - it's not more than 3% out of recent line each way), unless further evidence comes in reinforcing this VI split, as I just don't see the reason for a sudden move to the Tories, wherever it came from.

    Off-topic, hope all those at DD's enjoy themselves this evening. Unfortunately, I can't make it this time but look forward to the Yorkshire do next year.
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    CarlottaVanceCarlottaVance Posts: 59,787
    edited November 2013
    DavidL said:

    It may be time for Ed's next wheeze..

    We've had that - it was "Child Care Costs" paid for by the "infinite bank levy". Didn't you notice? No? I doubt anyone did......Ed frothing at the mouth over Falkirk got more coverage......and then we got the "Porn Again Christian" (Mirror) the "Crystal Methodist" (Sun)......and today no doubt we can enjoy more of the two Eds putting as much distance as possible between themselves (though not necessarily each other) and him.....
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    DavidLDavidL Posts: 51,387
    FPT @Fitalass said:

    The Scotsman - Brian Wilson: Scots tradition of dissent in peril
    "People in Scotland must be able to speak freely in the coming months without fear of retribution, writes Brian Wilson

    THE Chris Whatley affair is, at one level, just another spat along the long road to the referendum. At another, it tells us a great deal that is disturbing about how public life in Scotland is now being orchestrated.

    The full e-mail sent by Shona Robison MSP to the principal of Dundee University, expressing “dismay” over Professor Whatley’s participation in the city’s Better Together launch, makes unpleasant reading. It leaves little doubt about the intentions of its author – to silence the individual and put the frighteners on his employers."

    This story has had a lot of coverage in the Dundee Courier and caused a great deal of concern. The determination of the Scottish Government to control what is said by those in public employ or dependent upon the public purse is alarming.

    The hero of this particular spat is the princial of St Andrews who sent an e-mail to all of his staff stating that they were free to say what they wanted and that he would back them to the hilt. At that point Eck's finely tuned political radar was alerted and the SNP backed off in the way described. I hope the Principal of Dundee University is suitably embarrassed that it was the principal of another University that stood up for a member of his staff having the audacity to have an opinion.
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    Isn't the big mover the UKIP figure, at just 11%? I don't have the YouGov trend figures to hand but hasn't it usually been mid-teens?

    Not really - 11 is towards the bottom (10) of the range, but there have been four other 11s this month.

    http://d25d2506sfb94s.cloudfront.net/cumulus_uploads/document/llzm2zbm0v/YG-Archives-Pol-Trackers-Voting-Trends-with-UKIP-191113.pdf
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    Scrapheap_as_wasScrapheap_as_was Posts: 10,059
    edited November 2013
    tim said:

    I blame Falkirk!

    Also blame Falkirk for the fact that it is raining and I have been struggling to get on the site.

    As you are on, I will ask you a question. This time, try not to get into trouble with the mods for answering it with a "Look squirrel!" diversion. It is a simple enough question:

    Do you think what happened at Falkirk and Grangemouth was right?
    Not sure that the man who supports a sitting PM sitting on the CCTV evidence in Plebgate for three months is in any position to ask really.
    Is this a new thread or a retread?

    If the latter we'd better say Falkirk, Ed, Impeachment too.
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    PulpstarPulpstar Posts: 76,001
    Bit of a weird poll, with "Interestingly the proportion of 2010 LDs in this survey now saying LAB is, at 21‰ the lowest for a long time. " one would expect Labour to dip - perhaps to 36 or so ?

    Perhaps a touch of UKIP -> CON swing here also. The headline figures look fine but LD -> Lab internals looks like an outlier to me. Obviously internal subsamples will be outliers frequently.
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    JosiasJessopJosiasJessop Posts: 39,061
    tim said:

    I blame Falkirk!

    Also blame Falkirk for the fact that it is raining and I have been struggling to get on the site.

    As you are on, I will ask you a question. This time, try not to get into trouble with the mods for answering it with a "Look squirrel!" diversion. It is a simple enough question:

    Do you think what happened at Falkirk and Grangemouth was right?
    Not sure that the man who supports a sitting PM sitting on the CCTV evidence in Plebgate for three months is in any position to ask really.
    Why not? I stand by my position. Whatever Cameron had done, you would now be criticising. Besides, you've never answered any of my questions about the affair.

    You repeatedly misread the Plebgate situation. Are you sure you should be accusing others of misreading the situation?

    So perhaps you can answer the question about Falkirk (although I do not hold out much hope):

    Do you think what happened at Falkirk and Grangemouth was right?
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    PulpstarPulpstar Posts: 76,001
    Baxtering the poll:

    Lab 348
    Con 259
    LD 18
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    MillsyMillsy Posts: 900

    tim said:

    Tory morale appears to have fallen off a cliff in the last 48 hours.
    Do they not know we've been tracking it on here since the Syria farce led to the big leader ratings shift which fed into VI?

    "Always wrong, never learn"
    The fact is that between the local elections and conferences the Tories were starting to have their best polling numbers since the end of 2011. Whether it was mad or not Miliband's speech upset the applecart, I think only temporarily but time will tell.
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    DavidLDavidL Posts: 51,387
    DavidL said:

    FPT @Fitalass said:

    The Scotsman - Brian Wilson: Scots tradition of dissent in peril
    "People in Scotland must be able to speak freely in the coming months without fear of retribution, writes Brian Wilson

    THE Chris Whatley affair is, at one level, just another spat along the long road to the referendum. At another, it tells us a great deal that is disturbing about how public life in Scotland is now being orchestrated.

    The full e-mail sent by Shona Robison MSP to the principal of Dundee University, expressing “dismay” over Professor Whatley’s participation in the city’s Better Together launch, makes unpleasant reading. It leaves little doubt about the intentions of its author – to silence the individual and put the frighteners on his employers."

    This story has had a lot of coverage in the Dundee Courier and caused a great deal of concern. The determination of the Scottish Government to control what is said by those in public employ or dependent upon the public purse is alarming.

    The hero of this particular spat is the princial of St Andrews who sent an e-mail to all of his staff stating that they were free to say what they wanted and that he would back them to the hilt. At that point Eck's finely tuned political radar was alerted and the SNP backed off in the way described. I hope the Principal of Dundee University is suitably embarrassed that it was the principal of another University that stood up for a member of his staff having the audacity to have an opinion.

    Sorry the link does not seem to have carried over: http://www.scotsman.com/news/brian-wilson-scots-tradition-of-dissent-in-peril-1-3194604#.UovbWxT5SpU.twitter
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    JosiasJessopJosiasJessop Posts: 39,061
    tim said:

    tim said:

    I blame Falkirk!

    Also blame Falkirk for the fact that it is raining and I have been struggling to get on the site.

    As you are on, I will ask you a question. This time, try not to get into trouble with the mods for answering it with a "Look squirrel!" diversion. It is a simple enough question:

    Do you think what happened at Falkirk and Grangemouth was right?
    Not sure that the man who supports a sitting PM sitting on the CCTV evidence in Plebgate for three months is in any position to ask really.
    Why not? I stand by my position. Whatever Cameron had done, you would now be criticising. Besides, you've never answered any of my questions about the affair.

    You repeatedly misread the Plebgate situation. Are you sure you should be accusing others of misreading the situation?

    So perhaps you can answer the question about Falkirk (although I do not hold out much hope):

    Do you think what happened at Falkirk and Grangemouth was right?

    Err, no.

    Now explain to us why Cameron was right in your opinion to withold the key evidence, which he had viewed in the plebgate affair.
    Thanks for your answer.

    As for Plebgate: you have yet to prove evidence he did withhold it, besides a newspaper article, or even prove the three months you claim repeatedly. It's rather poor to be focussing on invented conspiracy theories over Cameron when the real story lies within the police force.

    If you think Cameron should have released the CCTV earlier, then surely you believe Ed should release the Falkirk report? After all, it is internal to the Labour Party, and is his to release?
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    TGOHFTGOHF Posts: 21,633
    Must be a typo - nailed on Labour lead of 14% is the only explanation. ...
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    CarlottaVanceCarlottaVance Posts: 59,787
    edited November 2013
    tim said:

    tim said:

    tim said:

    I blame Falkirk!

    Also blame Falkirk for the fact that it is raining and I have been struggling to get on the site.

    As you are on, I will ask you a question. This time, try not to get into trouble with the mods for answering it with a "Look squirrel!" diversion. It is a simple enough question:

    Do you think what happened at Falkirk and Grangemouth was right?
    Not sure that the man who supports a sitting PM sitting on the CCTV evidence in Plebgate for three months is in any position to ask really.
    Why not? I stand by my position. Whatever Cameron had done, you would now be criticising. Besides, you've never answered any of my questions about the affair.

    You repeatedly misread the Plebgate situation. Are you sure you should be accusing others of misreading the situation?

    So perhaps you can answer the question about Falkirk (although I do not hold out much hope):

    Do you think what happened at Falkirk and Grangemouth was right?

    Err, no.

    Now explain to us why Cameron was right in your opinion to withold the key evidence, which he had viewed in the plebgate affair.
    Thanks for your answer.

    As for Plebgate: you have yet to prove evidence he did withhold it, besides a newspaper article, or even prove the three months you claim repeatedly. It's rather poor to be focussing on invented conspiracy theories over Cameron when the real story lies within the police force.

    If you think Cameron should have released the CCTV earlier, then surely you believe Ed should release the Falkirk report? After all, it is internal to the Labour Party, and is his to release?
    Ed called the cops,
    The day after the Tories.


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    FinancierFinancier Posts: 3,916
    edited November 2013
    OT

    Totally fascinating article and quotes on Broadband speeds and costs around the world. Am amazed as to why Eastern Europe can be so cheap and fast and N America so expensive and slow - someone must be making a packet.

    http://www.bbc.co.uk/news/magazine-24985265
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    richardDoddrichardDodd Posts: 5,472
    JJ As everyone knows,Ed called in the police after a Tory had calld the police..Ed was still in hiding
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    richardDoddrichardDodd Posts: 5,472
    Another non -story all over the press ... never ending for Soaraway Labour .. 4 majestic points ahead
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    JosiasJessopJosiasJessop Posts: 39,061
    tim said:

    tim said:

    tim said:



    Not sure that the man who supports a sitting PM sitting on the CCTV evidence in Plebgate for three months is in any position to ask really.

    Why not? I stand by my position. Whatever Cameron had done, you would now be criticising. Besides, you've never answered any of my questions about the affair.

    You repeatedly misread the Plebgate situation. Are you sure you should be accusing others of misreading the situation?

    So perhaps you can answer the question about Falkirk (although I do not hold out much hope):

    Do you think what happened at Falkirk and Grangemouth was right?

    Err, no.

    Now explain to us why Cameron was right in your opinion to withold the key evidence, which he had viewed in the plebgate affair.
    Thanks for your answer.

    As for Plebgate: you have yet to prove evidence he did withhold it, besides a newspaper article, or even prove the three months you claim repeatedly. It's rather poor to be focussing on invented conspiracy theories over Cameron when the real story lies within the police force.

    If you think Cameron should have released the CCTV earlier, then surely you believe Ed should release the Falkirk report? After all, it is internal to the Labour Party, and is his to release?
    Ed called the cops, Cameron stalled, there's your difference.
    I'm very happy if the Tories want to fight an election on the judgement and appointments of the two men, I doubt Dave will come out of it well.

    A few facts for you:
    Conservative MP Henry Smith called the police to investigate on the 4th of July. (1)
    Ed called them in on the 5th July. (2)

    Decisive action there by Ed.

    (1): http://order-order.com/2013/07/05/labour-hand-over-falkirk-file-after-tories-report-unite-to-cops/
    (2): http://www.bbc.co.uk/news/uk-politics-23192888
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    NickPalmerNickPalmer Posts: 21,368
    I thought the 10 point lead was an outlier and this probably is as well - all the figures are within a point or two or all the recent ones. DavidL is right that the 40+ level was temporary. The position is that Labour seems to have stable support of 38 (since the conference) which gets boosted by a few in good weeks. The Tories have been on 31-35 since mid-October, UKIP on 10-12 since June, and the LibDems on 8-11 since April. Considering the number of polls it's astonishingly stable - you'd expect a few more outliers. The lead varies a bit more because it's a factor of two movements instead of one.

    http://d25d2506sfb94s.cloudfront.net/cumulus_uploads/document/llzm2zbm0v/YG-Archives-Pol-Trackers-Voting-Trends-with-UKIP-191113.pdf

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    On the poll - as OGH observes, easily within MOE and no doubt normal service (6-8 Labour lead) will be resumed tomorrow. One observation, normal "Tory" strengths (the economy) are down while what has been a Labour strength - health is up - so it doesn't look like a particularly pro-Tory panel.

    Hull gets City of Culture -expect comments from the national politicians of one of the losers - Dundee.....
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    I blame Falkirk!

    Also blame Falkirk for the fact that it is raining and I have been struggling to get on the site.

    As you are on, I will ask you a question. This time, try not to get into trouble with the mods for answering it with a "Look squirrel!" diversion. It is a simple enough question:

    Do you think what happened at Falkirk and Grangemouth was right?
    Looking at the story re: Dundee University, perhaps we should add this.

    I can see a pattern here, certainly in Scotland.
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    JosiasJessopJosiasJessop Posts: 39,061
    tim said:


    Ed called the cops, Cameron stalled, there's your difference.
    I'm very happy if the Tories want to fight an election on the judgement and appointments of the two men, I doubt Dave will come out of it well.

    Now you really are having a laugh. The following people have resigned from Ed's shadow cabinet outside of reshuffles:

    Tom Watson: over Falkirk.
    Alan Johnson: could not hack the job (that was a really great appointment, wasn't it?)
    Jim Fitzpatrick: over Syria (hilariously this was unnecessary, as Ed flip-flopped).
    David Miliband: because he did not want to be a 'distraction'.

    And the best:
    Phil Woolas !!! (I normally do not like multiple exclamation marks, but Woolas's appointment was absolutely bizarre).
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    JosiasJessopJosiasJessop Posts: 39,061
    tim said:

    @JosiasJessop

    As I say, Dave's judgement is incompatible with that of a sitting PM, in so many areas.

    Appointing the "antiedeluvian" Lynton Crosby to stir up the xenophobes isn't looking to clever either

    Your judgement on Cameron is incompatible with reality. Your hatred wins out every time.
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    TwistedFireStopperTwistedFireStopper Posts: 2,538
    edited November 2013
    Hull, City of Culture. Leicester folk breathe a sigh of relief.
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    Mick_PorkMick_Pork Posts: 6,530
    Scottish tory surgers and PB tories shrieking cluelessly about SLAB in Falkirk then witlessly parroting old SLAB spin from Brian Wilson and the Hootsman in the very next breath.

    Unspoofable. ;^ )
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    tim said:

    tim said:

    tim said:

    tim said:

    I blame Falkirk!

    Also blame Falkirk for the fact that it is raining and I have been struggling to get on the site.

    As you are on, I will ask you a question. This time, try not to get into trouble with the mods for answering it with a "Look squirrel!" diversion. It is a simple enough question:

    Do you think what happened at Falkirk and Grangemouth was right?
    Not sure that the man who supports a sitting PM sitting on the CCTV evidence in Plebgate for three months is in any position to ask really.

    Do you think what happened at Falkirk and Grangemouth was right?

    Err, no.

    Now explain to us why Cameron was right in your opinion to withold the key evidence, which he had viewed in the plebgate affair.
    Thanks for your answer.

    Falkirk report? After all, it is internal to the Labour Party, and is his to release?
    Ed called the cops,
    The day after the Tories.


    I thought the police enquiry started when the tapes were finally prised from Cameron/Heywood by Crick and Mitchell in December?
    No.

    Operation Alice started after the leaking of the Police logs and was well underway before Mitchell resigned:

    24 September 2012
    It has also emerged that the Metropolitan Police is investigating how police records of the incident were obtained by the newspaper.

    http://www.bbc.co.uk/news/uk-politics-19707950
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    TGOHFTGOHF Posts: 21,633
    I can't believe this poll - we were assured that good economic news and a bucket of manure being poured over Labour would never have any effect.

    Who could have seen this coming ?
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    tim said:

    @JosiasJessop

    As I say, Dave's judgement is incompatible with that of a sitting PM, in so many areas.

    Appointing the "antiedeluvian" Lynton Crosby to stir up the xenophobes isn't looking to clever either

    Your judgement on Cameron is incompatible with reality. Your hatred wins out every time.
    tim also seems to think that the PM should interfere with an ongoing Police inquiry and that calling the cops the day after your opponents already have done shows "Leadership".....
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    tim said:

    tim said:

    tim said:

    tim said:

    tim said:

    I blame Falkirk!

    Also blame Falkirk for the fact that it is raining and I have been struggling to get on the site.

    As you are on, I will ask you a question. This time, try not to get into trouble with the mods for answering it with a "Look squirrel!" diversion. It is a simple enough question:

    Do you think what happened at Falkirk and Grangemouth was right?
    Not sure that the man who supports a sitting PM sitting on the CCTV evidence in Plebgate for three months is in any position to ask really.

    Do you think what happened at Falkirk and Grangemouth was right?

    Err, no.

    Now explain to us why Cameron was right in your opinion to withold the key evidence, which he had viewed in the plebgate affair.
    Thanks for your answer.

    Falkirk report? After all, it is internal to the Labour Party, and is his to release?
    Ed called the cops,
    The day after the Tories.


    I thought the police enquiry started when the tapes were finally prised from Cameron/Heywood by Crick and Mitchell in December?
    No.

    Operation Alice started after the leaking of the Police logs and was well underway before Mitchell resigned:

    24 September 2012
    It has also emerged that the Metropolitan Police is investigating how police records of the incident were obtained by the newspaper.

    http://www.bbc.co.uk/news/uk-politics-19707950
    And the criminal enquiry?
    When Dave had to spill
    It's the same inquiry. You got it wrong.

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    Mick_PorkMick_Pork Posts: 6,530
    Incidently, why aren't the poll changes from last time shown?
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    Scott_PScott_P Posts: 51,453
    @JoeWatts_: MT @TheEconomist Trust in government has eroded http://t.co/hUjmtpU7uW http://t.co/P2bzMgaS2Z > except in UK where it's risen - really?!?
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    Hull, City of Culture. Leicester folk breathe a sigh of relief.

    What sort of culture? The mouldy one on the pies?
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    foxinsoxukfoxinsoxuk Posts: 23,548
    Hull? Voted Britains least lovely town some years ago?

    I guess they need the boost. Leicester is too famously boring.

    Semper Eadem!

    Hull, City of Culture. Leicester folk breathe a sigh of relief.

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    Scott_PScott_P Posts: 51,453
    In other developments yesterday:

    - Len Wardle, the Chairman of the Co-Operative Group, and a prominent supporter of Ed Balls, resigned taking the blame for appointing Mr Flowers as head of the bank.

    - But Ursula Lidbetter, his replacement, was immediately accused of taking part in the same decision.

    - It emerged that the one of the regulators who gave formal advice to Mr Flowers before he became head of the bank was later given a seat on the Co-Operative Bank’s board.
    http://www.thetimes.co.uk/tto/news/politics/article3926604.ece
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    FinancierFinancier Posts: 3,916
    Welsh view on Scotland's Referendum

    First Minister Carwyn Jones is to call on Scottish voters to reject independence and stay in a "strong UK".

    Mr Jones will defend the union as a "positive choice" in next year's referendum in a speech in Edinburgh.

    He will say on Wednesday he thinks a "lasting devolution settlement" is the better option for Scottish voters.

    "While independence is not on the agenda in Wales, we are following the debate in Scotland with interest”

    But the SNP said Mr Jones wanted changes to the way devolved governments are funded which would harm Scotland if it voted No in the poll next September.

    Mr Jones had warned he could not defend the union while UK ministers' response to the Silk Commission on the devolution of financial powers to Wales was not forthcoming.

    But the Treasury responded to the commission's proposals on Monday, announcing Welsh ministers would get tax-varying powers, the full devolution of business rates and early access to borrowing powers.

    http://www.bbc.co.uk/news/uk-wales-politics-25003045
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    JosiasJessopJosiasJessop Posts: 39,061

    Hull, City of Culture. Leicester folk breathe a sigh of relief.

    I first visited Hull on my coastal walk, and the place surprised me. I had expected a hullhole, but the centre (around the Dock Marinas and the shopping centre) seemed fairly reasonable to me.

    Mind you, a few days earlier a local radio presenter had warned me not to walk through the city from the east, as it would be too dangerous...
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    FinancierFinancier Posts: 3,916
    edited November 2013
    95% Mortgage is Back

    Competition for homebuyers with little in savings is picking up, as a building society has unveiled a string of new deals outside the Help to Buy scheme.

    The Yorkshire Building Society is offering a host of new mortgage products for people offering a deposit of 5% of a home's value.

    Some of the rates are lower than the initial offers from banks signed up to the government's Help to Buy scheme.

    The move comes amid warnings of an overheated UK housing market.

    The Yorkshire Building Society Group, the second-largest building society in the UK, said it was now offering the widest choice of 95% loan-to-value deals among UK lenders.

    The new mortgages are being offered through its Yorkshire, Barnsley, Chelsea, and Norwich and Peterborough Building Society brands, as well as its Accord Mortgages lending arm, which serves brokers.

    http://www.bbc.co.uk/news/business-25003049
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    @tim - still got it wrong - Operation Alice - the criminal investigation was already underway. And you believe the PM should have interfered in it.
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    Scott_PScott_P Posts: 51,453
    What should have been a deal breaker against Hull. The return of John *&!%ing Prescott...

    @paulwaugh: Ah, Prezza is now out of the traps. RT @johnprescott It's Happy Hour again! #HullYes Well done @2017Hull #CityofCulture2017
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    JosiasJessopJosiasJessop Posts: 39,061
    tim said:

    "Andrew Mitchell calls for full inquiry over ‘pleb row’ after CCTV footage released

    http://metro.co.uk/2012/12/18/andrew-mitchell-full-inquiry-pleb-row-3321906/

    Released by the cabinet office three months on.

    Tim, you are about the only person in the world who thinks that Cameron's the main story in Plebgate P1 and P2.

    As people have shown below, there was already a police investigation ongoing. There was also a media frenzy stoked up by idiots.

    If Cameron had released the CCTV, you would be shouting: "Cameron interfered with an investigation! The CCTV's bound to be suspect, as it was released politically!" Your hatred would prevent you from seeing anything Cameron had done as a positive.

    You really are a tinfoil-hatted nutjob.
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    JohnOJohnO Posts: 4,215
    @tim - Take the day off, sunbeam, you're already having a shocking one and it isn't even 9.00am.

    Use the time to educate yourself about the New Homes Bonus.
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    john_zimsjohn_zims Posts: 3,399
    @JosiasJessop

    'Now you really are having a laugh. The following people have resigned from Ed's shadow cabinet outside of reshuffles:'

    Not to mention Ed's favorite banker appointed as a member of Labour's finance & industry Board.
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    tim said:

    @tim - still got it wrong - Operation Alice - the criminal investigation was already underway. And you believe the PM should have interfered in it.

    Like a corner newsagent would hand over CCTV containing evidence
    But Cameron operates way below that standard it seems
    So tim, just to be clear - you are accusing the PM and the Cabinet Secretary of conspiring to pervert the course of justice by deliberately suppressing evidence?
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    richardDoddrichardDodd Posts: 5,472
    A massive rabbit off today... must be a poor poll for Labour,or is it the Drug taker,Co-op man, or Falkirk and the inquiry or a former Labour Minister being found guilty of stealing..or...
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    TGOHFTGOHF Posts: 21,633
    PMQs today - got the bingo card updates ? CO OP, Flowers, meth...
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    TGOHFTGOHF Posts: 21,633
    Rachel Reeves rules out u 25 benefits reform.
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    I first visited Hull on my coastal walk, and the place surprised me. I had expected a hullhole, but the centre (around the Dock Marinas and the shopping centre) seemed fairly reasonable to me.

    Heavily bombed during WW2, which led to the local council appreciating what remained and not knocking it down during the 1960s.



    Mind you, a few days earlier a local radio presenter had warned me not to walk through the city from the east, as it would be too dangerous...

    That's where the big council estates are.

    The sort of council estates which some people claim are the solution to Britain's housing problems.
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    A massive rabbit off today... must be a poor poll for Labour,or is it the Drug taker,Co-op man, or Falkirk and the inquiry or a former Labour Minister being found guilty of stealing..or...

    It may be topical if the rumoured announcement from the CPS on Plebgate today proves true.

    However I have little doubt the far from fragrant Flowers will continue to entertain.....we've yet to discover why he left Rochdale.....

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    DM – “It has also emerged Rev Flowers was convicted of gross indecency in a public toilet with a man believed to be a trucker in 1981.”

    Believed to be a ‘trucker’ – how terribly Cliché…!

    http://www.dailymail.co.uk/news/article-2510241/Paul-Flowers-escort-Ciaron-Dodd-reveals-drug-fuelled-sex-rooms-paid-Co-op.html
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    JohnOJohnO Posts: 4,215
    TGOHF said:

    PMQs today - got the bingo card updates ? CO OP, Flowers, meth...

    I exepct cowardly Dave will cancel it as he did after the appalling setbacks of falling inflation and dramatic reduction in unemployment.
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    TGOHFTGOHF Posts: 21,633
    tim said:

    TGOHF said:

    PMQs today - got the bingo card updates ? CO OP, Flowers, meth...


    You think Dave will lead on drugs and dodgy associates?
    Why not tim ? Cluck cluck cluck...
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    philiphphiliph Posts: 4,704
    tim said:

    @tim - still got it wrong - Operation Alice - the criminal investigation was already underway. And you believe the PM should have interfered in it.

    Like a corner newsagent would hand over CCTV containing evidence
    But Cameron operates way below that standard it seems
    The onus is in fact on the police to request the evidence they require for a full and complete investigation.

    That the police did not ask for the cctv shots covering the area suggests that the investigation was, to be polite, half hearted at that time.
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    Then and now:

    Scum Labour in government gives taxpayers money to scum bankers.

    Scum Labour in opposition receives shareholders money from scum bankers.

    The Conservatives (and LibDems) should be saying that on every news program.
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    JosiasJessopJosiasJessop Posts: 39,061
    tim said:

    @Josias

    I don't think it's the main story, but I think it shines a light on Camerons deeply duplicitous character and flawed judgement.

    You would hand the evidence over wouldn't you

    I'm not sure you can view the evidence dispassionately enough to come up with a balanced position on this. You hate Cameron.

    People like you were saying that anyone who backed Mitchell were automatically calling the police liars. A Police Federation rep sickeningly linked it to the shooting dead of two policewomen.

    If Cameron or Mitchell had said more, you would be going around saying they were calling the police liars.

    Cameron could not win. You and Roger are about the only people who do not recognise that...
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    @AllisterHeath: My @telegraph column: High-impact tax cuts are now the last chance the Tories have to avoid defeat in 2015 http://t.co/5nyA9Ql02d

    In spite of his dramatics, he's broadly right on tax policy.

    The one big error there is IHT. That doesn't need touching at this moment in time - in fact, it's an area they should look to devolve.

    The threshold that most needs lifting is stamp duty on housing - 168k is the average price, so why should an ordinary person wanting to buy an average home be taxed on it? Raise the 0% to £175,000 for starters.

    He'd probably do well to raise the VAT exemption threshold too. Let's say £104,000 - a turnover of £2,000 a week. Incentivise small business and self employed start ups.
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    john_zimsjohn_zims Posts: 3,399
    edited November 2013
    @another_richard

    Time for Balls to do the decent thing and hand the £50k back.
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    stodgestodge Posts: 12,894
    tim said:

    @AllisterHeath: My @telegraph column: High-impact tax cuts are now the last chance the Tories have to avoid defeat in 2015 http://t.co/5nyA9Ql02d

    Morning all :)

    Allister Heath has long been a critic of Coalition economic policy. I'm more than happy to endorse his view on personal allowance increases but what I think would be more significant would be to move the threshhold at which people enter the higher tax rates.

    While recognising that in some parts of the country, a £35k annual salary would be worth a lot, for many in the South and around London, it's not that much yet it brings people into higher rate tax. It's time I think for Osborne to recognise this anomaly and raise the higher rate threshhold to £45k. I don't know what the "cost" of that would be in terms of revenue but it would send a powerful message that the Coalition isn't just interested in the very wealthy or even the very poor.

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    BobajobBobajob Posts: 1,536
    Any chance of a bit of humanity and liberality on the "man buys drugs" and "gay man shags in toilet" thing? The unworldliness is rather frightening. I've resolved to post much less now - but that needed saying.
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    PulpstarPulpstar Posts: 76,001
    Political story of the day will be the defense vote. It'll be strictly village stuff unless the Gov't is defeated, at which point it becomes a story.
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    tim said:

    Then and now:

    Scum Labour in government gives taxpayers money to scum bankers.

    Scum Labour in opposition receives shareholders money from scum bankers.

    The Conservatives (and LibDems) should be saying that on every news program.

    If Dave and George didn't live in a big glass house they might throw some stones, as it is it'd backfire on them badly
    Someone should really shut Shapps up
    Dave and George are having and will get stones thrown at their glass house so they've nothing to lose by throwing a few at the other side's glass house.

    And the Conservatives (and LibDems) should have their most working class MPs lead the abuse.

    What is strategically important for them is to destroy the perception that Labour is some sort of working class people's party.

    Associating Labour with sleezy bankers (and public sector fatcats for that matter) allows them to do that.

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    stodge said:

    tim said:

    @AllisterHeath: My @telegraph column: High-impact tax cuts are now the last chance the Tories have to avoid defeat in 2015 http://t.co/5nyA9Ql02d

    Morning all :)

    Allister Heath has long been a critic of Coalition economic policy. I'm more than happy to endorse his view on personal allowance increases but what I think would be more significant would be to move the threshhold at which people enter the higher tax rates.

    While recognising that in some parts of the country, a £35k annual salary would be worth a lot, for many in the South and around London, it's not that much yet it brings people into higher rate tax. It's time I think for Osborne to recognise this anomaly and raise the higher rate threshhold to £45k. I don't know what the "cost" of that would be in terms of revenue but it would send a powerful message that the Coalition isn't just interested in the very wealthy or even the very poor.

    £35k is not in the higher tax bracket. You don't pay higher rate tax until about the £42k level.
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    TGOHFTGOHF Posts: 21,633

    Then and now:

    Scum Labour in government gives taxpayers money to scum bankers.

    Scum Labour in opposition receives shareholders money from scum bankers.

    The Conservatives (and LibDems) should be saying that on every news program.

    The Co op isn't listed - it doesn't have any shareholders.

    The Labour money came straight out of interest that could have been paid to poor old pensioners who gave the Co op their money - to pay out to Balls and to employ druggie old pervs.


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    PlatoPlato Posts: 15,724
    A Labour stalwart on Twitter yesterday was moaning about how pointless reading tweets was as it was all so predictable.

    Frankly, I'm still boggling over the Coop non-story. I just hope the Tories aren't as colourful. Labour are giving the LDs a run for their money.

    A massive rabbit off today... must be a poor poll for Labour,or is it the Drug taker,Co-op man, or Falkirk and the inquiry or a former Labour Minister being found guilty of stealing..or...

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    PlatoPlato Posts: 15,724

    A massive rabbit off today... must be a poor poll for Labour,or is it the Drug taker,Co-op man, or Falkirk and the inquiry or a former Labour Minister being found guilty of stealing..or...

    It may be topical if the rumoured announcement from the CPS on Plebgate today proves true.

    However I have little doubt the far from fragrant Flowers will continue to entertain.....we've yet to discover why he left Rochdale.....

    I read it was gay porn. Is that correct?
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    You can't trust anyone called Allister.
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    tim said:

    stodge said:

    tim said:

    @AllisterHeath: My @telegraph column: High-impact tax cuts are now the last chance the Tories have to avoid defeat in 2015 http://t.co/5nyA9Ql02d

    Morning all :)

    Allister Heath has long been a critic of Coalition economic policy. I'm more than happy to endorse his view on personal allowance increases but what I think would be more significant would be to move the threshhold at which people enter the higher tax rates.

    While recognising that in some parts of the country, a £35k annual salary would be worth a lot, for many in the South and around London, it's not that much yet it brings people into higher rate tax. It's time I think for Osborne to recognise this anomaly and raise the higher rate threshhold to £45k. I don't know what the "cost" of that would be in terms of revenue but it would send a powerful message that the Coalition isn't just interested in the very wealthy or even the very poor.

    £35k is not in the higher tax bracket. You don't pay higher rate tax until about the £42k level.

    Basic tax rate

    20% on annual earnings above the PAYE tax threshold and up to £32,010

    Higher tax rate

    40% on annual earnings from £32,011 to £150,000


    http://www.hmrc.gov.uk/payerti/forms-updates/rates-thresholds.htm

    Thought this was the one field you claim to know about?
    That's failing to take into account the personal allowance.
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    TGOHFTGOHF Posts: 21,633
    Oh dear tim. Schoolboy.
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    TheSheikofShakeTheSheikofShake Posts: 83
    edited November 2013
    stodge said:


    While recognising that in some parts of the country, a £35k annual salary would be worth a lot, for many in the South and around London, it's not that much yet it brings people into higher rate tax. It's time I think for Osborne to recognise this anomaly and raise the higher rate threshhold to £45k. I don't know what the "cost" of that would be in terms of revenue but it would send a powerful message that the Coalition isn't just interested in the very wealthy or even the very poor.

    The problem with that is that it only helps about 10-15% of the population, many of whom will vote Tory anyway.

    The people he needs to win are the ones earning £25,000 a year - average wage, wanting to buy a house that costs £150-175k - average house price, and who are more concerned about the standard of public services like education and healthcare, than welfare benefits.

    The budget needs to be aimed at Mr and Mrs Average - not Mr and Mrs Rich/Top 10-15% or Mr and Mrs Welfare.
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    SchardsSchards Posts: 210
    Why do YouGov still bother? Don't they know the election result was called last week by the PB Timmies?
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    FinancierFinancier Posts: 3,916
    OT

    Interesting on Oil E&P costs

    "Ernest & Young looked closely at costs for the global E&P world as part of the firm’s annual “Global oil and gas reserves study”.

    The numbers left little doubt that costs in today’s oil and gas world are weighing on producers like never before. Production costs in 2012 rose 6% globally—driven by higher prices for labor and services.

    Now, 6% isn’t a huge amount on its own. But numbers like this start to get worrying when you combine operating costs with other rising expenses for E&Ps—like finding costs, the amount paid by producers to discover and book in-ground oil and gas reserves.

    Sifting through the data, E&Y found that finding costs are silently obliterating E&P profits. The cost to find a barrel of oil equivalent jumped nearly 30% in 2012, to $21.83 per boe from just $16.90 per boe in 2011.

    On the back of all of these growing costs, the study shows that total E&P exploration and develop spending rose 20% in 2012. Over the last five years, global spending has grinded upward by an incredible 48%.

    Here’s where these rapidly-inflating expenses get really worrying for investors: because E&P companies are no longer seeing the cash flow and reserves growth to support this spending.

    Just look at the numbers. Combined oil and gas production globally rose by a meager 2% in 2012. With producers managing just a 1% increase in revenues from this output.

    Reserves also aren’t growing much. Oil reserves globally bumped up by just 3% in 2012. Worldwide gas reserves actually dropped by 2% on the year.

    Amid this stagnant growth, rising costs are hitting the bottom line hard. Worldwide after-tax profits for the E&P sector plummeted 16% in 2012, to $268.4 billion."

    www.oilprice.com
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    JosiasJessopJosiasJessop Posts: 39,061



    I first visited Hull on my coastal walk, and the place surprised me. I had expected a hullhole, but the centre (around the Dock Marinas and the shopping centre) seemed fairly reasonable to me.

    Heavily bombed during WW2, which led to the local council appreciating what remained and not knocking it down during the 1960s.



    Mind you, a few days earlier a local radio presenter had warned me not to walk through the city from the east, as it would be too dangerous...

    That's where the big council estates are.

    The sort of council estates which some people claim are the solution to Britain's housing problems.
    Thanks for the background. In reality I found the outskirts of Hull no worse than any other area of dockland, and the city centre itself quite pleasant.

    On the other hand, I was expecting to like Grimsby, and didn't enjoy it much.

    Such are the perils of walking through an unfamiliar town...
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    JonathanDJonathanD Posts: 2,400
    tim said:

    stodge said:

    tim said:

    @AllisterHeath: My @telegraph column: High-impact tax cuts are now the last chance the Tories have to avoid defeat in 2015 http://t.co/5nyA9Ql02d

    Morning all :)

    Allister Heath has long been a critic of Coalition economic policy. I'm more than happy to endorse his view on personal allowance increases but what I think would be more significant would be to move the threshhold at which people enter the higher tax rates.

    While recognising that in some parts of the country, a £35k annual salary would be worth a lot, for many in the South and around London, it's not that much yet it brings people into higher rate tax. It's time I think for Osborne to recognise this anomaly and raise the higher rate threshhold to £45k. I don't know what the "cost" of that would be in terms of revenue but it would send a powerful message that the Coalition isn't just interested in the very wealthy or even the very poor.

    £35k is not in the higher tax bracket. You don't pay higher rate tax until about the £42k level.

    Basic tax rate

    20% on annual earnings above the PAYE tax threshold and up to £32,010

    Higher tax rate

    40% on annual earnings from £32,011 to £150,000


    http://www.hmrc.gov.uk/payerti/forms-updates/rates-thresholds.htm

    Thought this was the one field you claim to know about?

    Now you are just embarrassing yourself...
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    TGOHF said:

    Oh dear tim. Schoolboy.

    Typical PB Kinnock... failing to understand things about the tax system and the economy.

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    Scott_PScott_P Posts: 51,453
    @patrickwintour: Labour makes fine mess of briefing withdrawal of benefits from under 24. Briefs Telegraph on a policy it does not know if it supports.

    @joe_oliver: So the IPPR report's published at 8.15am. At 8.39 Rachel Reeves says she's not considering it. Briefing operation yesterday went well then?

    @OwenJones84: @RachelReevesMP Hi Rachel - are you going to write something today clarifying the situation?
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    PlatoPlato Posts: 15,724
    antifrank said:

    You can't trust anyone called Allister.

    When they spell it Aleister, you need to worry.
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    Plato said:

    A massive rabbit off today... must be a poor poll for Labour,or is it the Drug taker,Co-op man, or Falkirk and the inquiry or a former Labour Minister being found guilty of stealing..or...

    It may be topical if the rumoured announcement from the CPS on Plebgate today proves true.

    However I have little doubt the far from fragrant Flowers will continue to entertain.....we've yet to discover why he left Rochdale.....

    I read it was gay porn. Is that correct?
    AFAIK that was Bradford and it was 'adult, but not illegal' material.

    He should have been sacked for being daft enough for using a work computer for pron.....

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    PulpstarPulpstar Posts: 76,001
    edited November 2013

    stodge said:


    While recognising that in some parts of the country, a £35k annual salary would be worth a lot, for many in the South and around London, it's not that much yet it brings people into higher rate tax. It's time I think for Osborne to recognise this anomaly and raise the higher rate threshhold to £45k. I don't know what the "cost" of that would be in terms of revenue but it would send a powerful message that the Coalition isn't just interested in the very wealthy or even the very poor.

    The problem with that is that it only helps about 10-15% of the population, many of whom will vote Tory anyway.

    The people he needs to win are the ones earning £25,000 a year - average wage, wanting to buy a house that costs £150-175k - average house price, and who are more concerned about the standard of public services like education and healthcare, than welfare benefits.

    The budget needs to be aimed at Mr and Mrs Average - not Mr and Mrs Rich/Top 10-15% or Mr and Mrs Welfare.
    How the hell does anyone on 25k buy a 175k house ?!

    I suppose this is the point...
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    CD13CD13 Posts: 6,351
    tim,

    I assume you don't pay tax or you don't have a personal allowance (9,440).

    Are you an illegal immigrant?
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    Pulpstar said:

    stodge said:


    While recognising that in some parts of the country, a £35k annual salary would be worth a lot, for many in the South and around London, it's not that much yet it brings people into higher rate tax. It's time I think for Osborne to recognise this anomaly and raise the higher rate threshhold to £45k. I don't know what the "cost" of that would be in terms of revenue but it would send a powerful message that the Coalition isn't just interested in the very wealthy or even the very poor.

    The problem with that is that it only helps about 10-15% of the population, many of whom will vote Tory anyway.

    The people he needs to win are the ones earning £25,000 a year - average wage, wanting to buy a house that costs £150-175k - average house price, and who are more concerned about the standard of public services like education and healthcare, than welfare benefits.

    The budget needs to be aimed at Mr and Mrs Average - not Mr and Mrs Rich/Top 10-15% or Mr and Mrs Welfare.
    How the hell does anyone on 25k buy a 175k house ?!

    I suppose this is the point...
    Easy enough with two people earning 25k each...
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    richardDoddrichardDodd Posts: 5,472
    How much is the Co-op in hock for... run by Balls and Eds financial adviser...I pity the poor devils who invested in it, swallowing the ethical banking crap that Balls went on about
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    TGOHFTGOHF Posts: 21,633
    tim said:

    @TGOHF

    How many more people are paying top rate tax than three years ago?

    Your argument was the same as Heaths a while back
    Skelton and co prefer an NI cut as that helps poorer workers more.

    Come back when you understand the basics tim.

    Perhaps if you got a job you could see the effect on your payslip etc.

    A bit of lets say - life experience.

    Or just plug in £35k here.

    http://www.listentotaxman.com/index.php

    We need R0berts or coontputer back to up the level of the leftie intellect....
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    FinancierFinancier Posts: 3,916
    Caviar is being produced in the UK for the first time. The Times reports on a fish farm in north Devon that has just put its caviar on sale - £59.95 for a 30g tin. That's about three teaspoonfuls. But before you start your own farm, it can take 25 years for a sturgeon to start producing eggs.

    BBC Business Live

    Will make a change for Len & Co, from beer and sandwiches, as they can afford it.

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    TGOHF said:

    tim said:

    @TGOHF

    How many more people are paying top rate tax than three years ago?

    Your argument was the same as Heaths a while back
    Skelton and co prefer an NI cut as that helps poorer workers more.

    Come back when you understand the basics tim.

    Perhaps if you got a job you could see the effect on your payslip etc.

    A bit of lets say - life experience.

    Or just plug in £35k here.

    http://www.listentotaxman.com/index.php

    We need R0berts or coontputer back to up the level of the leftie intellect....
    I'm not sure tim's ever had a payslip from his ignorance..
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    stodgestodge Posts: 12,894


    That's failing to take into account the personal allowance.

    Whether the figure is £32k, £35k or £42k doesn't invalidate the basic argument. Do you think the threshholds should be raised so more people are taken out of higher rate tax ?

    The ShakySheikh claims that the average wage earner at £25k should be the target of any largesse from the Chancellor, others argue for an across-the-board cut in basic rates or NI.

    What is your opinion ?

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    How the hell does anyone on 25k buy a 175k house ?!

    I suppose this is the point...
    If you have a couple working and they have average incomes - £50k for £175k house is fairly ordinary as an income multiple.

    Once you get outside the M25, housing is very affordable in many places. London enormously distorts perceptions.
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    CarlottaVanceCarlottaVance Posts: 59,787
    edited November 2013
    Everything's going so well

    @PatrickWintour: Labour makes fine mess of briefing withdrawal of benefits from under 24. Briefs Telegraph on a policy it does not know if it supports.

    @SunnyHundal: I can see how young people will clamour to vote for Labour in 2015 if our message is they're lazy & unwilling to work unless denied benefits
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    isamisam Posts: 41,002
    Who's going to the drink tonight?
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    PlatoPlato Posts: 15,724
    I haven't been reading the press at all for days and just noticed that Dan Hodges is up to 3028 comments on his negative Sykes article.

    Is that a record? I assume he must be running against Mr Delingpole and wind farms here.

    http://blogs.telegraph.co.uk/news/danhodges/100246610/ukip-is-planning-to-run-one-of-the-most-dangerous-campaigns-in-british-political-history/
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    TheWatcherTheWatcher Posts: 5,262
    edited November 2013
    TGOHF said:

    tim said:

    @TGOHF

    Perhaps if you got a job you could see the effect on your payslip etc.

    And there was me thinking he was on Unite's payroll, with the odd stint working for the Police Federation.

    Hey Ho.
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    stodge said:


    That's failing to take into account the personal allowance.

    Whether the figure is £32k, £35k or £42k doesn't invalidate the basic argument. Do you think the threshholds should be raised so more people are taken out of higher rate tax ?

    The ShakySheikh claims that the average wage earner at £25k should be the target of any largesse from the Chancellor, others argue for an across-the-board cut in basic rates or NI.

    What is your opinion ?

    I would say that cuts would be sensible to cut would be national insurance first and foremost, as it affects lower wagers sooner (as the limit for Ni is lower than for tax).

    Theres any number of things you could do, it's a matter of how much it costs, who it effects, but it does get complicated quickly, and that's bad for the system.

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    SchardsSchards Posts: 210
    I feel slightly embarrassed to discover that I have been spending time arguing politics and the economy with someone who doesn't have the most basic understanding of the UK income tax system. I mean, I just assumed............what a waste of time.
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    TheWatcherTheWatcher Posts: 5,262
    edited November 2013
    tim said:

    @TheWatcher

    Blimey, one MOE poll and all the stars are back.

    It's hard not to join in with the laughter, when you're running with your 'Norman Baker' comedy routine.

  • Options



    I'm not sure tim's ever had a payslip from his ignorance..

    In tim's defence on this, he might well be self employed.
This discussion has been closed.