Logging on to PB for the first time this evening. Has anything important happened in the last few hours?
No but the Telly is shit at the moment
There's always Top of the Pops 1988 on BBC4.
Presumably edited down to about nine minutes?
Due to sundry unperson DJs?
OTOH 1988 was the year of Rick Astley
Oh God, 1988. Everybody was on Ecstasy and the music showed it. Not good. Still, I assume some remember it fondly.
1988 had some seminal releases by REM, NWA, Public Enemy, Bad Religion, Metallica, Sonic Youth...but I don't think most of those got invited on Top of the Pops that often.
Oh, the Americans! Yes, fair point. I was thinking of the Brits, who did rather lose their way. Industrial unrest and political upheaval gets you Joy Division. Leaps in technology gets you Gary Numan, Human League and New Order. Sexualty and gender got you Soft Cell and Culture Club. Bust gets you The Specials, Boom gets you Duran Duran. Even synthpop got you Erasure. But get everybody on MDMA and you get...S bloody Express and whiny Mancs. You had to wait for the Shamen and Utah Saints before things got interesting again.
Still, at least there was T'Pau. Who were great. Fight me.
There were some chinks in the gloom ... PSB's "Only on my mind". OK it was a Cover. And so was Bomb the Bass's "Say a little prayer for you". OK, another cover. But 1989's "Mind Bomb" by the peerless Matt Johnson's The The was a tour de force, and highly prescient. Check this out for example.
Logging on to PB for the first time this evening. Has anything important happened in the last few hours?
No but the Telly is shit at the moment
There's always Top of the Pops 1988 on BBC4.
Presumably edited down to about nine minutes?
Due to sundry unperson DJs?
OTOH 1988 was the year of Rick Astley
Oh God, 1988. Everybody was on Ecstasy and the music showed it. Not good. Still, I assume some remember it fondly.
Funnily enough my wife asked me earlier this evening if I would still take recreational fillips knowing what I know now...and I answered without delay..obviously yes...those nights, those weekends of hedonistic, drug fuelled happiness when you are young, energetic and beautiful and surrounded by likeminded hedonists....who wouldn't?
My experience with drugs[1] makes Julie Andrews look like Sid Vicious, so I apologise in advance. But it seems like drugs that make you happy make the music worse, but drugs that fuck you up make the music better. Heroin, cocaine, alcohol: trauma, drive, great music. Cannabis, Benzodiazapines, Ecstasy: dull, dull, dull, whiny, dull
[1] the illegal ones at least... Grey-area or prescribed, we're basically experts at this point...
Ecstacy makes everything fucking awesome. Or it used to anyway
Doesn't that get Boris off the hook? He can rail against the Remainers in Parliament and say it shows why he needs a majority and show that he never sent the letter.
Good point, although there might be some downsides to him ignoring the law!
Lock him up! Lock him up! Lock him up!
On the other hand, if remainers get scared that he might not actually send it and get someone else to do it before the deadline, he'd have broken no law.
On topic, interesting and well-argued header but I feel "Constantinople was all but abandoned, and fell, this time permanently" is unduly pessimistic. I hope MD remains focused on history, not distracted by journalism.
The USA has been moving away from the Atlantic and away from Europe as the theatre that interests it. The Cold War was won and the USSR is no longer the threat it was. Putin may be a threat to Estonia but he is no threat to the USA in the way that Stalin was.
The USA is far, far more concerned with the Pacific now. Both Bush Jr and Obama reorientated troops and resources from the Atlantic to the Pacific and Trump is merely continuing that trend. And Trump's successor will continue that trend.
The US has been orienting towards the Pacific. But I feel sure that George W would have stood up for Estonia, and even Obama organised NATO exercises with US troops in the Baltics.
Silver Arrow, which is going on right now in Latvia, simulates a NATO response to Russian invasion. The Canadians are there (along with the Europeans). The US is not.
I had no idea US disengagement had progressed so far.
Logging on to PB for the first time this evening. Has anything important happened in the last few hours?
No but the Telly is shit at the moment
There's always Top of the Pops 1988 on BBC4.
Presumably edited down to about nine minutes?
Due to sundry unperson DJs?
OTOH 1988 was the year of Rick Astley
Oh God, 1988. Everybody was on Ecstasy and the music showed it. Not good. Still, I assume some remember it fondly.
1988 had some seminal releases by REM, NWA, Public Enemy, Bad Religion, Metallica, Sonic Youth...but I don't think most of those got invited on Top of the Pops that often.
Oh, the Americans! Yes, fair point. I was thinking of the Brits, who did rather lose their way. Industrial unrest and political upheaval gets you Joy Division. Leaps in technology gets you Gary Numan, Human League and New Order. Sexualty and gender got you Soft Cell and Culture Club. Bust gets you The Specials, Boom gets you Duran Duran. Even synthpop got you Erasure. But get everybody on MDMA and you get...S bloody Express and whiny Mancs. You had to wait for the Shamen and Utah Saints before things got interesting again.
Still, at least there was T'Pau. Who were great. Fight me.
There were some chinks in the gloom ... PSB's "Only on my mind". OK it was a Cover. And so was Bomb the Bass's "Say a little prayer for you". OK, another cover. But 1989's "Mind Bomb" by the peerless Matt Johnson's The The was a tour de force, and highly prescient. Check this out for example.
Good point about The The. Thank you.
My pleasure. I saw him/them at the RAH last year. It was four days after his father died. He had to go through with the concert or forfeit the revenue whilst remaining liable for the costs. Hugely poignant. Best gig I'd been to since the reformed Police in 2008/
Logging on to PB for the first time this evening. Has anything important happened in the last few hours?
No but the Telly is shit at the moment
There's always Top of the Pops 1988 on BBC4.
Presumably edited down to about nine minutes?
Due to sundry unperson DJs?
OTOH 1988 was the year of Rick Astley
Oh God, 1988. Everybody was on Ecstasy and the music showed it. Not good. Still, I assume some remember it fondly.
Funnily enough my wife asked me earlier this evening if I would still take recreational fillips knowing what I know now...and I answered without delay..obviously yes...those nights, those weekends of hedonistic, drug fuelled happiness when you are young, energetic and beautiful and surrounded by likeminded hedonists....who wouldn't?
My experience with drugs[1] makes Julie Andrews look like Sid Vicious, so I apologise in advance. But it seems like drugs that make you happy make the music worse, but drugs that fuck you up make the music better. Heroin, cocaine, alcohol: trauma, drive, great music. Cannabis, Benzodiazapines, Ecstasy: dull, dull, dull, whiny, dull
[1] the illegal ones at least... Grey-area or prescribed, we're basically experts at this point...
Apart from alcohol my only experience of other narcotics was canabis which left me randy and my wife unable to walk or stand up which I suppose is not that different to alcohol. But as to 80’s music we were to busy bringing up kids and working to remember much about it.
So, Boris has lost every vote, lost the SC case, lost 2 attempts at a GE, is now being investigated for misconduct and has another court case filed against him to stop him breaking the law.
Has any other PM ever stayed in office with this amount of failure and accusation against him?
lol - things being "wargamed" is beginning to have the tedious repetition of the phrase "Not being fit for purpose". I could live without either ever being utilised in political discourse again!
How dare the honourable gentleman refer to war games.? Doesn't he know how offensive and violent and triggering and incendiary etc that phrase is? (Cont p94)
So, Boris has lost every vote, lost the SC case, lost 2 attempts at a GE, is now being investigated for misconduct and has another court case filed against him to stop him breaking the law.
Has any other PM ever stayed in office with this amount of failure and accusation against him?
Surely it was Manzikert and the Norman ejection of byzantium from Italy that really started the rot Morris? Well, the loss of the African empire to Islam was pretty bad before that too.
Like the sudden emergence of Trudeau's "blackface photos" just before the Canadian election, it does seem curious that Boris' alleged offence is being investigated only now?
Still, let's see what & see what emerges.
I still wonder why Boris Johnson fell by the wayside so quickly after Cameron resigned.
So, Boris has lost every vote, lost the SC case, lost 2 attempts at a GE, is now being investigated for misconduct and has another court case filed against him to stop him breaking the law.
Has any other PM ever stayed in office with this amount of failure and accusation against him?
He hasn't lost every vote, he won the vitally important this house has talked about democracy vote
And be careful, he has been referred to see if an investigation is warranted, he is not yet under investigation
So, Boris has lost every vote, lost the SC case, lost 2 attempts at a GE, is now being investigated for misconduct and has another court case filed against him to stop him breaking the law.
Has any other PM ever stayed in office with this amount of failure and accusation against him?
The polls might suggest many of the voters think all these court cases and accusations against him are part of a remainer conspiracy in the run up to 31 October. The timing of the GLA referral seems to fit that narrative. Might be that all of this hardens support for Boris in his people v the establishment campaign.
If they haven't wargamed Boris getting into some trouble due to a buxom blonde they aren't doing their job very well. It would certainly be on a list of likely crises involving the PM if I was tasked with making it.
So, Boris has lost every vote, lost the SC case, lost 2 attempts at a GE, is now being investigated for misconduct and has another court case filed against him to stop him breaking the law.
Has any other PM ever stayed in office with this amount of failure and accusation against him?
Yet despite him being such an alleged "failure" the opposition are scared shitless of the voters casting judgment in an election and are doing everything in their power to ensure he remains in Downing Street without a fresh election where they could turf him out.
When the Nazis were doing their nihilistic nonsense...they needed plenty of Hancocks..careerist, small minded, dweebs who could do their dirty work,,,,
As an aside, Guiliani is appearing alongside Putin at a Russian stated backed conference in Armenia this weekend. Further evidence, if you want it, of where this administration's sympathies lie.
Doesn't that get Boris off the hook? He can rail against the Remainers in Parliament and say it shows why he needs a majority and show that he never sent the letter.
Good point, although there might be some downsides to him ignoring the law!
Lock him up! Lock him up! Lock him up!
On the other hand, if remainers get scared that he might not actually send it and get someone else to do it before the deadline, he'd have broken no law.
Doesn’t work like that , he’d already be in contempt of court . If the Scottish Court has agreed to provide remedy that won’t happen till after Bozo has refused and missed the deadline . Contempt of court is a serious charge .
Like the sudden emergence of Trudeau's "blackface photos" just before the Canadian election, it does seem curious that Boris' alleged offence is being investigated only now?
Still, let's see what & see what emerges.
I still wonder why Boris Johnson fell by the wayside so quickly after Cameron resigned.
I thought that was an open secret?
Gove was helping organise his leadership campaign and they'd been high profile working together for months, then Gove stabbed him in the back and launched his own campaign and momentum within the Parliamentary Power ebbed away rapidly from him and it was clear MPs weren't going to nominate him . . . and they didn't nominate Gove either.
I like Gove a lot but his decision to do that leading to May being elected was disastrous.
Logging on to PB for the first time this evening. Has anything important happened in the last few hours?
No but the Telly is shit at the moment
There's always Top of the Pops 1988 on BBC4.
Presumably edited down to about nine minutes?
Due to sundry unperson DJs?
OTOH 1988 was the year of Rick Astley
Oh God, 1988. Everybody was on Ecstasy and the music showed it. Not good. Still, I assume some remember it fondly.
I was in the flush of youth, gracing Tabbish halls ... oh tempora, oh mores ...
I've recently discovered some music from that time. Eurythmics. I thought long gone by late 80s but no. Ms Lennox ... oh if one only had a time machine
Not as good as the 70's but great time for me , I was living in Santa Clara , California.
Doesn't that get Boris off the hook? He can rail against the Remainers in Parliament and say it shows why he needs a majority and show that he never sent the letter.
Good point, although there might be some downsides to him ignoring the law!
Lock him up! Lock him up! Lock him up!
On the other hand, if remainers get scared that he might not actually send it and get someone else to do it before the deadline, he'd have broken no law.
Doesn’t work like that , he’d already be in contempt of court . If the Scottish Court has agreed to provide remedy that won’t happen till after Bozo has refused and missed the deadline . Contempt of court is a serious charge .
How would he be in contempt in my scenario? He could still send it.
As an aside, Guiliani is appearing alongside Putin at a Russian stated backed conference in Armenia this weekend. Further evidence, if you want it, of where this administration's sympathies lie.
Get with the plot, Russia is yesterdays scandal, it's all about Ukraine now
So, Boris has lost every vote, lost the SC case, lost 2 attempts at a GE, is now being investigated for misconduct and has another court case filed against him to stop him breaking the law.
Has any other PM ever stayed in office with this amount of failure and accusation against him?
Logging on to PB for the first time this evening. Has anything important happened in the last few hours?
No but the Telly is shit at the moment
There's always Top of the Pops 1988 on BBC4.
Presumably edited down to about nine minutes?
Due to sundry unperson DJs?
OTOH 1988 was the year of Rick Astley
Oh God, 1988. Everybody was on Ecstasy and the music showed it. Not good. Still, I assume some remember it fondly.
1988 had some seminal releases by REM, NWA, Public Enemy, Bad Religion, Metallica, Sonic Youth...but I don't think most of those got invited on Top of the Pops that often.
Oh, the Americans! Yes, fair point. I was thinking of the Brits, who did rather lose their way. Industrial unrest and political upheaval gets you Joy Division. Leaps in technology gets you Gary Numan, Human League and New Order. Sexualty and gender got you Soft Cell and Culture Club. Bust gets you The Specials, Boom gets you Duran Duran. Even synthpop got you Erasure. But get everybody on MDMA and you get...S bloody Express and whiny Mancs. You had to wait for the Shamen and Utah Saints before things got interesting again.
Still, at least there was T'Pau. Who were great. Fight me.
There were some chinks in the gloom ... PSB's "Only on my mind". OK it was a Cover. And so was Bomb the Bass's "Say a little prayer for you". OK, another cover. But 1989's "Mind Bomb" by the peerless Matt Johnson's The The was a tour de force, and highly prescient. Check this out for example.
Good point about The The. Thank you.
My pleasure. I saw him/them at the RAH last year. It was four days after his father died. He had to go through with the concert or forfeit the revenue whilst remaining liable for the costs. Hugely poignant. Best gig I'd been to since the reformed Police in 2008/
The final line is an exemplar of left handed compliments. Unless you are serious, in which case you haven’t left your house since 2008.
Logging on to PB for the first time this evening. Has anything important happened in the last few hours?
No but the Telly is shit at the moment
There's always Top of the Pops 1988 on BBC4.
Presumably edited down to about nine minutes?
Due to sundry unperson DJs?
OTOH 1988 was the year of Rick Astley
Oh God, 1988. Everybody was on Ecstasy and the music showed it. Not good. Still, I assume some remember it fondly.
Funnily enough my wife asked me earlier this evening if I would still take recreational fillips knowing what I know now...and I answered without delay..obviously yes...those nights, those weekends of hedonistic, drug fuelled happiness when you are young, energetic and beautiful and surrounded by likeminded hedonists....who wouldn't?
My experience with drugs[1] makes Julie Andrews look like Sid Vicious, so I apologise in advance. But it seems like drugs that make you happy make the music worse, but drugs that fuck you up make the music better. Heroin, cocaine, alcohol: trauma, drive, great music. Cannabis, Benzodiazapines, Ecstasy: dull, dull, dull, whiny, dull
[1] the illegal ones at least... Grey-area or prescribed, we're basically experts at this point...
Apart from alcohol my only experience of other narcotics was canabis which left me randy and my wife unable to walk or stand up which I suppose is not that different to alcohol. But as to 80’s music we were to busy bringing up kids and working to remember much about it.
I enjoyed the early Eighties, but it was pretty crap for music after 1985. I quite liked a bit of Acid House, but other than that don't think I missed much in 1988. I was working a 2 in 5 with internal cover as a Junior Doctor, so not much perspective outside hospital parties. Some pretty intense fun at those though.
If I were Trump I would avoid Guiliani talking to Congress, if only because he's repeatedly gone off the reservation. The chance of him saying something regretted later has to be pretty high.
When the Nazis were doing their nihilistic nonsense...they needed plenty of Hancocks..careerist, small minded, dweebs who could do their dirty work,,,,
So, Boris has lost every vote, lost the SC case, lost 2 attempts at a GE, is now being investigated for misconduct and has another court case filed against him to stop him breaking the law.
Has any other PM ever stayed in office with this amount of failure and accusation against him?
Every other PM was capable of feeling shame
Tony Blair?
He has no shame, as that passage about sex with Cherie and her gob full of teeth in his autobiography proves
Boris Pravda in full flow! I suspect those who believe the propaganda output from that sorry state of a newspaper is diminishing by the day. Yes, they have tried to target Major in that headline but the stories about his conduct in the fall of MT have been numerous and persistent for many years. I doubt anything new will avail. John Major is a figure I would back over the third rate clown currently in No.10 on any day. Boris Johnson seems to think that anything in his interest becomes the National interest and anything else does not matter....
So, Boris has lost every vote, lost the SC case, lost 2 attempts at a GE, is now being investigated for misconduct and has another court case filed against him to stop him breaking the law.
Has any other PM ever stayed in office with this amount of failure and accusation against him?
The polls might suggest many of the voters think all these court cases and accusations against him are part of a remainer conspiracy in the run up to 31 October. The timing of the GLA referral seems to fit that narrative. Might be that all of this hardens support for Boris in his people v the establishment campaign.
The contents of a link given earlier, to a Times focus group in Stoke, was illuminating. I’m not sure about surprising, mind you.
So, Boris has lost every vote, lost the SC case, lost 2 attempts at a GE, is now being investigated for misconduct and has another court case filed against him to stop him breaking the law.
Has any other PM ever stayed in office with this amount of failure and accusation against him?
Every other PM was capable of feeling shame
Tony Blair?
My impression is that Blair feels shame but can't express contrition. Whereas Johnson's total absence of shame is his superpower. Until it brings him down, which is looking like it might be quite soon.
Surely it was Manzikert and the Norman ejection of byzantium from Italy that really started the rot Morris? Well, the loss of the African empire to Islam was pretty bad before that too.
That was the wealthy part of the world in classical times.
So, Boris has lost every vote, lost the SC case, lost 2 attempts at a GE, is now being investigated for misconduct and has another court case filed against him to stop him breaking the law.
Has any other PM ever stayed in office with this amount of failure and accusation against him?
The polls might suggest many of the voters think all these court cases and accusations against him are part of a remainer conspiracy in the run up to 31 October. The timing of the GLA referral seems to fit that narrative. Might be that all of this hardens support for Boris in his people v the establishment campaign.
The contents of a link given earlier, to a Times focus group in Stoke, was illuminating. I’m not sure about surprising, mind you.
I couldn't read that, as I don't have a Times account. But I am sure I can imagine how it went down. Plenty of people in this country have gone proper crazy. Maybe even a majority. I don't really recognise the place anymore.
Like the sudden emergence of Trudeau's "blackface photos" just before the Canadian election, it does seem curious that Boris' alleged offence is being investigated only now?
Still, let's see what & see what emerges.
I still wonder why Boris Johnson fell by the wayside so quickly after Cameron resigned.
I thought that was an open secret?
Gove was helping organise his leadership campaign and they'd been high profile working together for months, then Gove stabbed him in the back and launched his own campaign and momentum within the Parliamentary Power ebbed away rapidly from him and it was clear MPs weren't going to nominate him . . . and they didn't nominate Gove either.
I like Gove a lot but his decision to do that leading to May being elected was disastrous.
"If we vote to leave we hold all the cards" was probably the most egregiously misjudged promise of the many false promises made by the leave campaign.
Logging on to PB for the first time this evening. Has anything important happened in the last few hours?
No but the Telly is shit at the moment
There's always Top of the Pops 1988 on BBC4.
Presumably edited down to about nine minutes?
Due to sundry unperson DJs?
OTOH 1988 was the year of Rick Astley
Oh God, 1988. Everybody was on Ecstasy and the music showed it. Not good. Still, I assume some remember it fondly.
Funnily enough my wife asked me earlier this evening if I would still take recreational fillips knowing what I know now...and I answered without delay..obviously yes...those nights, those weekends of hedonistic, drug fuelled happiness when you are young, energetic and beautiful and surrounded by likeminded hedonists....who wouldn't?
My experience with drugs[1] makes Julie Andrews look like Sid Vicious, so I apologise in advance. But it seems like drugs that make you happy make the music worse, but drugs that fuck you up make the music better. Heroin, cocaine, alcohol: trauma, drive, great music. Cannabis, Benzodiazapines, Ecstasy: dull, dull, dull, whiny, dull
[1] the illegal ones at least... Grey-area or prescribed, we're basically experts at this point...
Apart from alcohol my only experience of other narcotics was canabis which left me randy and my wife unable to walk or stand up which I suppose is not that different to alcohol. But as to 80’s music we were to busy bringing up kids and working to remember much about it.
I enjoyed the early Eighties, but it was pretty crap for music after 1985. I quite liked a bit of Acid House, but other than that don't think I missed much in 1988. I was working a 2 in 5 with internal cover as a Junior Doctor, so not much perspective outside hospital parties. Some pretty intense fun at those though.
I'd like nothing more than to drop a few tabs and get on it tonight for an all nighter....but....
There are things I can do now that I couldn't do then..like a 100 good (non stop) press ups....but I doubt I could recover that quickly from a full on bender....
Logging on to PB for the first time this evening. Has anything important happened in the last few hours?
No but the Telly is shit at the moment
There's always Top of the Pops 1988 on BBC4.
Presumably edited down to about nine minutes?
Due to sundry unperson DJs?
OTOH 1988 was the year of Rick Astley
Oh God, 1988. Everybody was on Ecstasy and the music showed it. Not good. Still, I assume some remember it fondly.
Funnily enough my wife asked me earlier this evening if I would still take recreational fillips knowing what I know now...and I answered without delay..obviously yes...those nights, those weekends of hedonistic, drug fuelled happiness when you are young, energetic and beautiful and surrounded by likeminded hedonists....who wouldn't?
My experience with drugs[1] makes Julie Andrews look like Sid Vicious, so I apologise in advance. But it seems like drugs that make you happy make the music worse, but drugs that fuck you up make the music better. Heroin, cocaine, alcohol: trauma, drive, great music. Cannabis, Benzodiazapines, Ecstasy: dull, dull, dull, whiny, dull
[1] the illegal ones at least... Grey-area or prescribed, we're basically experts at this point...
Apart from alcohol my only experience of other narcotics was canabis which left me randy and my wife unable to walk or stand up which I suppose is not that different to alcohol. But as to 80’s music we were to busy bringing up kids and working to remember much about it.
I enjoyed the early Eighties, but it was pretty crap for music after 1985. I quite liked a bit of Acid House, but other than that don't think I missed much in 1988. I was working a 2 in 5 with internal cover as a Junior Doctor, so not much perspective outside hospital parties. Some pretty intense fun at those though.
Late 80s Factory Records was pretty good. New Order's 'Technique', the Mondays, some vintage Durutti Column. Shame they had to screw things up by spending their millions on Northside, Cath Carroll and a flashy office.
Doesn't that get Boris off the hook? He can rail against the Remainers in Parliament and say it shows why he needs a majority and show that he never sent the letter.
Good point, although there might be some downsides to him ignoring the law!
Lock him up! Lock him up! Lock him up!
On the other hand, if remainers get scared that he might not actually send it and get someone else to do it before the deadline, he'd have broken no law.
Doesn’t work like that , he’d already be in contempt of court . If the Scottish Court has agreed to provide remedy that won’t happen till after Bozo has refused and missed the deadline . Contempt of court is a serious charge .
How would he be in contempt in my scenario? He could still send it.
Your scenario only works if they VONC him and have a temporary PM in charge who signs the letter .
If Bozo refuses and misses the deadline , it’s contempt of court . If at that point they VONC and sign it he will still have committed contempt of court.
Boris Pravda in full flow! I suspect those who believe the propaganda output from that sorry state of a newspaper is diminishing by the day. Yes, they have tried to target Major in that headline but the stories about his conduct in the fall of MT have been numerous and persistent for many years. I doubt anything new will avail. John Major is a figure I would back over the third rate clown currently in No.10 on any day. Boris Johnson seems to think that anything in his interest becomes the National interest and anything else does not matter....
Is that the John Major who prorogued to prevent Parliament discussing cash for questions and lectured the country on back to basics whilst committing adultery? He's Boris's role model surely. His administration, together with Clarke and Heseltine also ushered in 13 years of Labour Government. Perhaps that's why you prefer him.
Doesn't that get Boris off the hook? He can rail against the Remainers in Parliament and say it shows why he needs a majority and show that he never sent the letter.
Good point, although there might be some downsides to him ignoring the law!
Lock him up! Lock him up! Lock him up!
On the other hand, if remainers get scared that he might not actually send it and get someone else to do it before the deadline, he'd have broken no law.
Doesn’t work like that , he’d already be in contempt of court . If the Scottish Court has agreed to provide remedy that won’t happen till after Bozo has refused and missed the deadline . Contempt of court is a serious charge .
How would he be in contempt in my scenario? He could still send it.
Your scenario only works if they VONC him and have a temporary PM in charge who signs the letter .
If Bozo refuses and misses the deadline , it’s contempt of court . If at that point they VONC and sign it he will still have committed contempt of court.
So, Boris has lost every vote, lost the SC case, lost 2 attempts at a GE, is now being investigated for misconduct and has another court case filed against him to stop him breaking the law.
Has any other PM ever stayed in office with this amount of failure and accusation against him?
The polls might suggest many of the voters think all these court cases and accusations against him are part of a remainer conspiracy in the run up to 31 October. The timing of the GLA referral seems to fit that narrative. Might be that all of this hardens support for Boris in his people v the establishment campaign.
The contents of a link given earlier, to a Times focus group in Stoke, was illuminating. I’m not sure about surprising, mind you.
I couldn't read that, as I don't have a Times account. But I am sure I can imagine how it went down. Plenty of people in this country have gone proper crazy. Maybe even a majority. I don't really recognise the place anymore.
It is the Brexit supporting media that keeps pumping out Brexit related propaganda that is twisting peoples minds. Until they stop the pro-Brexit propaganda, individuals are going to be manipulated into further Brexit support even though none of the promised dividends will be delivered even if Brexit is fulfilled.
Like the sudden emergence of Trudeau's "blackface photos" just before the Canadian election, it does seem curious that Boris' alleged offence is being investigated only now?
Still, let's see what & see what emerges.
I still wonder why Boris Johnson fell by the wayside so quickly after Cameron resigned.
I thought that was an open secret?
Gove was helping organise his leadership campaign and they'd been high profile working together for months, then Gove stabbed him in the back and launched his own campaign and momentum within the Parliamentary Power ebbed away rapidly from him and it was clear MPs weren't going to nominate him . . . and they didn't nominate Gove either.
I like Gove a lot but his decision to do that leading to May being elected was disastrous.
Thanks. I was on holiday when Cameron resign. Thanks for jogging my memory.
On topic, I was amused to read about Donald Trump's fury when he discovered the Germans were going to raise their military spending. But they were going to spend it on troops, rather than simply hand the money to the US (or US weapons manufacturers).
So, Boris has lost every vote, lost the SC case, lost 2 attempts at a GE, is now being investigated for misconduct and has another court case filed against him to stop him breaking the law.
Has any other PM ever stayed in office with this amount of failure and accusation against him?
He hasn't lost every vote, he won the vitally important this house has talked about democracy vote
And be careful, he has been referred to see if an investigation is warranted, he is not yet under investigation
Logging on to PB for the first time this evening. Has anything important happened in the last few hours?
No but the Telly is shit at the moment
There's always Top of the Pops 1988 on BBC4.
Presumably edited down to about nine minutes?
Due to sundry unperson DJs?
OTOH 1988 was the year of Rick Astley
Oh God, 1988. Everybody was on Ecstasy and the music showed it. Not good. Still, I assume some remember it fondly.
Funnily enough my wife asked me earlier this evening if I would still take recreational fillips knowing what I know now...and I answered without delay..obviously yes...those nights, those weekends of hedonistic, drug fuelled happiness when you are young, energetic and beautiful and surrounded by likeminded hedonists....who wouldn't?
My experience with drugs[1] makes Julie Andrews look like Sid Vicious, so I apologise in advance. But it seems like drugs that make you happy make the music worse, but drugs that fuck you up make the music better. Heroin, cocaine, alcohol: trauma, drive, great music. Cannabis, Benzodiazapines, Ecstasy: dull, dull, dull, whiny, dull
[1] the illegal ones at least... Grey-area or prescribed, we're basically experts at this point...
Apart from alcohol my only experience of other narcotics was canabis which left me randy and my wife unable to walk or stand up which I suppose is not that different to alcohol. But as to 80’s music we were to busy bringing up kids and working to remember much about it.
I enjoyed the early Eighties, but it was pretty crap for music after 1985. I quite liked a bit of Acid House, but other than that don't think I missed much in 1988. I was working a 2 in 5 with internal cover as a Junior Doctor, so not much perspective outside hospital parties. Some pretty intense fun at those though.
I love early 80s music videos. In fact I've created a number of playlists on YouTube for each year from that period, since the existing ones weren't that interesting IMO. I agree that 1980 to 1984 was much better than 1985 to 1989.
Logging on to PB for the first time this evening. Has anything important happened in the last few hours?
No but the Telly is shit at the moment
There's always Top of the Pops 1988 on BBC4.
Presumably edited down to about nine minutes?
Due to sundry unperson DJs?
OTOH 1988 was the year of Rick Astley
Oh God, 1988. Everybody was on Ecstasy and the music showed it. Not good. Still, I assume some remember it fondly.
Funnily enough my wife asked me earlier this evening if I would still take recreational fillips knowing what I know now...and I answered without delay..obviously yes...those nights, those weekends of hedonistic, drug fuelled happiness when you are young, energetic and beautiful and surrounded by likeminded hedonists....who wouldn't?
My experience with drugs[1] makes Julie Andrews look like Sid Vicious, so I apologise in advance. But it seems like drugs that make you happy make the music worse, but drugs that fuck you up make the music better. Heroin, cocaine, alcohol: trauma, drive, great music. Cannabis, Benzodiazapines, Ecstasy: dull, dull, dull, whiny, dull
[1] the illegal ones at least... Grey-area or prescribed, we're basically experts at this point...
Apart from alcohol my only experience of other narcotics was canabis which left me randy and my wife unable to walk or stand up which I suppose is not that different to alcohol. But as to 80’s music we were to busy bringing up kids and working to remember much about it.
I enjoyed the early Eighties, but it was pretty crap for music after 1985. I quite liked a bit of Acid House, but other than that don't think I missed much in 1988. I was working a 2 in 5 with internal cover as a Junior Doctor, so not much perspective outside hospital parties. Some pretty intense fun at those though.
I'd like nothing more than to drop a few tabs and get on it tonight for an all nighter....but....
There are things I can do now that I couldn't do then..like a 100 good (non stop) press ups....but I doubt I could recover that quickly from a full on bender....
The Eighties transformed me from scruffy metallhead to yuppie with filofax. If I hadn't emigrated at that point, and seen the light, not sure how it could have ended.
Boris Pravda in full flow! I suspect those who believe the propaganda output from that sorry state of a newspaper is diminishing by the day. Yes, they have tried to target Major in that headline but the stories about his conduct in the fall of MT have been numerous and persistent for many years. I doubt anything new will avail. John Major is a figure I would back over the third rate clown currently in No.10 on any day. Boris Johnson seems to think that anything in his interest becomes the National interest and anything else does not matter....
Is that the John Major who prorogued to prevent Parliament discussing cash for questions and lectured the country on back to basics whilst committing adultery? He's Boris's role model surely. His administration, together with Clarke and Heseltine also ushered in 13 years of Labour Government. Perhaps that's why you prefer him.
Major was not having an affair when Back to Basics was advocated. Major had the affair IIRC in 1985 - 1987. Back to Basics was in 1992 - 1994.
Proroguing parliament for a GE is one thing, doing it to prevent parliament from stopping a crazy No Deal Brexit is another thing. I have voted Tory in every GE since I got the vote, I will not be voting for the Tories again whilst the current stupid Brexit nonsense is still being advocated...
Logging on to PB for the first time this evening. Has anything important happened in the last few hours?
No but the Telly is shit at the moment
There's always Top of the Pops 1988 on BBC4.
Presumably edited down to about nine minutes?
Due to sundry unperson DJs?
OTOH 1988 was the year of Rick Astley
Oh God, 1988. Everybody was on Ecstasy and the music showed it. Not good. Still, I assume some remember it fondly.
Funnily enough my wife asked me earlier this evening if I would still take recreational fillips knowing what I know now...and I answered without delay..obviously yes...those nights, those weekends of hedonistic, drug fuelled happiness when you are young, energetic and beautiful and surrounded by likeminded hedonists....who wouldn't?
My experience with drugs[1] makes Julie Andrews look like Sid Vicious, so I apologise in advance. But it seems like drugs that make you happy make the music worse, but drugs that fuck you up make the music better. Heroin, cocaine, alcohol: trauma, drive, great music. Cannabis, Benzodiazapines, Ecstasy: dull, dull, dull, whiny, dull
[1] the illegal ones at least... Grey-area or prescribed, we're basically experts at this point...
Apart from alcohol my only experience of other narcotics was canabis which left me randy and my wife unable to walk or stand up which I suppose is not that different to alcohol. But as to 80’s music we were to busy bringing up kids and working to remember much about it.
I enjoyed the early Eighties, but it was pretty crap for music after 1985. I quite liked a bit of Acid House, but other than that don't think I missed much in 1988. I was working a 2 in 5 with internal cover as a Junior Doctor, so not much perspective outside hospital parties. Some pretty intense fun at those though.
I love early 80s music videos. In fact I've created a number of playlists on YouTube for each year from that period, since the existing ones weren't that interesting IMO. I agree that 1980 to 1984 was much better than 1985 to 1989.
There were some musical high points in the late Eighties, my own favourite being Husker Du, Grunge ahead of it's time.
Regular readers will know that I'm not exactly the greatest fan of Boris. Still, the timing of this referral by the GLA, and the innuendo without any supporting evidence, does look remarkably suspicious. If there's a scandal here (and, let's face it, it wouldn't be a surprise if there's a Boris scandal somewhere involving a woman), I can't help feeling that it would have been much better to have spent more effort in checking it out before going public; as it is. it may well backfire.
Logging on to PB for the first time this evening. Has anything important happened in the last few hours?
No but the Telly is shit at the moment
There's always Top of the Pops 1988 on BBC4.
Presumably edited down to about nine minutes?
Due to sundry unperson DJs?
OTOH 1988 was the year of Rick Astley
Oh God, 1988. Everybody was on Ecstasy and the music showed it. Not good. Still, I assume some remember it fondly.
Funnily enough my wife asked me earlier this evening if I would still take recreational fillips knowing what I know now...and I answered without delay..obviously yes...those nights, those weekends of hedonistic, drug fuelled happiness when you are young, energetic and beautiful and surrounded by likeminded hedonists....who wouldn't?
My experience with drugs[1] makes Julie Andrews look like Sid Vicious, so I apologise in advance. But it seems like drugs that make you happy make the music worse, but drugs that fuck you up make the music better. Heroin, cocaine, alcohol: trauma, drive, great music. Cannabis, Benzodiazapines, Ecstasy: dull, dull, dull, whiny, dull
[1] the illegal ones at least... Grey-area or prescribed, we're basically experts at this point...
Apart from alcohol my only experience of other narcotics was canabis which left me randy and my wife unable to walk or stand up which I suppose is not that different to alcohol. But as to 80’s music we were to busy bringing up kids and working to remember much about it.
I enjoyed the early Eighties, but it was pretty crap for music after 1985. I quite liked a bit of Acid House, but other than that don't think I missed much in 1988. I was working a 2 in 5 with internal cover as a Junior Doctor, so not much perspective outside hospital parties. Some pretty intense fun at those though.
I saw Prince at the NEC in 1988. Glad to say.
And the Neslon Mandela 70th Birthday concert at Wembley. A monster gathering of artists for that. The little-known Tracey Chapman a particular highlight, she did two sets. Also the Eurythmics, Simple Minds, Stevie Wonder, Al Green, George Michael, Peter Gabriel, Whitney Houston.....
Boris Pravda in full flow! I suspect those who believe the propaganda output from that sorry state of a newspaper is diminishing by the day. Yes, they have tried to target Major in that headline but the stories about his conduct in the fall of MT have been numerous and persistent for many years. I doubt anything new will avail. John Major is a figure I would back over the third rate clown currently in No.10 on any day. Boris Johnson seems to think that anything in his interest becomes the National interest and anything else does not matter....
Is that the John Major who prorogued to prevent Parliament discussing cash for questions and lectured the country on back to basics whilst committing adultery? He's Boris's role model surely. His administration, together with Clarke and Heseltine also ushered in 13 years of Labour Government. Perhaps that's why you prefer him.
Major was not having an affair when Back to Basics was advocated. Major had the affair IIRC in 1985 - 1987. Back to Basics was in 1992 - 1994.
Proroguing parliament for a GE is one thing, doing it to prevent parliament from stopping a crazy No Deal Brexit is another thing. I have voted Tory in every GE since I got the vote, I will not be voting for the Tories again whilst the current stupid Brexit nonsense is still being advocated...
In other words, because he's a remainer his transgressions are all ok. A bit like John McDonnell calling for direct action and lynching are ok because he's a remainer, whilst Boris calling the Benn Bill the Surrender Bill is using incendiary language. Just sayin, you understand.
Interesting thread header but overlooking one small point.
NATO has realistically typically been the USA, UK, sometimes France and then assorted odds and ends . . . with German and Scandinavian and others soil to base the real troops in not them sending the troops. Once the UK leaves the EU, there is little real effective difference between saying France and saying the EU as far as NATO's firepower is concerned and France was always a semi-detached member of NATO anyway.
Yes the European army will effectively be led by France much as the European economy is effectively led by Germany.
When the Nazis were doing their nihilistic nonsense...they needed plenty of Hancocks..careerist, small minded, dweebs who could do their dirty work,,,,
INSTA-GODWIN.
Your reply makes little sense to me
As the length of any internet discussion increases, the probability of a Nazism comparison tends to 1. You got from reading the tweet to posting a Nazi comparison in one move. It's the Scholar's Checkmate example of Godwin's law.
That's the point of the EU Army. LEAVE is fundamentally a pro-American campaign, whereas REMAIN is fundamentally pro-European. If you want to be subservient to a man who can be bought with the girly favours of Russian oilgarchs, bully to you.
That's the point of the EU Army. LEAVE is fundamentally a pro-American campaign, whereas REMAIN is fundamentally pro-European. If you want to be subservient to a man who can be bought with the girly favours of Russian oilgarchs, bully to you.
It was the British and Americans who liberated western Europe in WW2 from the last pan European army headed by one Adolf Hitler.
A European army running alongside NATO may work well, a European army as a rival to NATO will not
That's the point of the EU Army. LEAVE is fundamentally a pro-American campaign, whereas REMAIN is fundamentally pro-European. If you want to be subservient to a man who can be bought with the girly favours of Russian oilgarchs, bully to you.
It was the British and Americans who liberated Europe in WW2 from the last pan European army headed by one Adolf Hitler.
Dura Ace was very negative on the prospect of the UK defending Estonia from Russian invasion. He felt we would walk away from our NATO commitments rather than allow our citizens' blood to be spilled on the streets of Tallinn.
And then there's: President Trump. Who does he personally like and admire more: the gaggle of European leaders of democracies, or autocratic Putin? Who would he be cheering on?
In the normal world, the liberal* democracies of Asian and the West would have a shared interest in staring down hard men. And that forms the basis for institutions like NATO. But if countries like Estonia feel that they are unlikely to be protected by the US or the US in the event the Russian bear came growling, can you blame them for wanting to do something with their European peers?
If I were sitting in Tallinn, I would be terrified by Trump and Putin. And I would also be terrified that the US was turning more insular (and that was a secular trend not a moment of madness), and that that would make the existing structures much less effective in preventing my invasion. I think I'd probably be encouraging the creation of a European army.
Personally, I think the breakdown of NATO is probably inevitable, and will happen before there is any meaningful shared EU military cooperation. And there will be bloodshed somewhere in the East, as either Russia works out a way to get Kaliningrad integrated with the rest of the country, or moves to protect native Russians somewhere in the Baltics.
And the US will end up getting involved in the end - but the cost of its involvement (both to its self and to the world), will be much higher than if it had continued to act as a detterent.
* I use that in the broadest sense, meaning capitalist, puralist, human rights loving, democracies
An excellent post but it pre-dates Trump too.
The USA has been moving away from the Atlantic and away from Europe as the theatre that interests it. The Cold War was won and the USSR is no longer the threat it was. Putin may be a threat to Estonia but he is no threat to the USA in the way that Stalin was.
The USA is far, far more concerned with the Pacific now. Both Bush Jr and Obama reorientated troops and resources from the Atlantic to the Pacific and Trump is merely continuing that trend. And Trump's successor will continue that trend.
The US has been orienting towards the Pacific. But I feel sure that George W would have stood up for Estonia, and even Obama organised NATO exercises with US troops in the Baltics.
Silver Arrow, which is going on right now in Latvia, simulates a NATO response to Russian invasion. The Canadians are there (along with the Europeans). The US is not.
The US now shows up if money is put on the table first.
That's the point of the EU Army. LEAVE is fundamentally a pro-American campaign, whereas REMAIN is fundamentally pro-European. If you want to be subservient to a man who can be bought with the girly favours of Russian oilgarchs, bully to you.
It was the British and Americans who liberated Europe in WW2 from the last pan European army headed by one Adolf Hitler.
Is Sunil about? Is there anyone who knows anything about the train times available from Network Rail through their API?
I was on my LNER train back to Edinburgh yesterday, and it came to a halt at the platform exactly 60 minutes and 9 seconds late, a timing that I verified by checking my phone against the station clock, but the arrival time given in the data from Network Rail - available on websites like opentraintimes.com is 59 minutes late - which would mean that I miss out on half a delay repay refund.
What I wonder is whether the timing point at the station is at the end of the platform, so will always be upto half a minute earlier than the actual arrival time? Does anyone know?
Boris Pravda in full flow! I suspect those who believe the propaganda output from that sorry state of a newspaper is diminishing by the day. Yes, they have tried to target Major in that headline but the stories about his conduct in the fall of MT have been numerous and persistent for many years. I doubt anything new will avail. John Major is a figure I would back over the third rate clown currently in No.10 on any day. Boris Johnson seems to think that anything in his interest becomes the National interest and anything else does not matter....
Is that the John Major who prorogued to prevent Parliament discussing cash for questions and lectured the country on back to basics whilst committing adultery? He's Boris's role model surely. His administration, together with Clarke and Heseltine also ushered in 13 years of Labour Government. Perhaps that's why you prefer him.
Major was not having an affair when Back to Basics was advocated. Major had the affair IIRC in 1985 - 1987. Back to Basics was in 1992 - 1994.
Proroguing parliament for a GE is one thing, doing it to prevent parliament from stopping a crazy No Deal Brexit is another thing. I have voted Tory in every GE since I got the vote, I will not be voting for the Tories again whilst the current stupid Brexit nonsense is still being advocated...
In other words, because he's a remainer his transgressions are all ok. A bit like John McDonnell calling for direct action and lynching are ok because he's a remainer, whilst Boris calling the Benn Bill the Surrender Bill is using incendiary language. Just sayin, you understand.
No not at all. Major is not the current PM and I thought Proroguing in 1997 was wrong and he should have withdrawn the whip from those who were guilty of cash for questions. I met one of the then Tory MPs in question and thought he was a duplicitous individual who did not understand the truth.
I have never supported John McDonnell and don't agree with him calling for lynching.
I have to say in terms of politics I reluctantly think you have lost it trying to project this or that onto me. What is the point?
You voted for Brexit, I did not and I oppose it. We will never agree and I regret the Conservative party has become hijacked by Brexiteer madness. If people like you want to commit economic and political suicide, go ahead but don't expect me to want to go through it as well...
That's the point of the EU Army. LEAVE is fundamentally a pro-American campaign, whereas REMAIN is fundamentally pro-European. If you want to be subservient to a man who can be bought with the girly favours of Russian oilgarchs, bully to you.
It was the British and Americans who liberated Europe in WW2 from the last pan European army headed by one Adolf Hitler.
Not forgetting the Russians obvs.
Not sure they did much 'liberation', though.
They defeated nazi Germany. In manpower terms. We - the US - shortened the time it took by providing materièl
That's the point of the EU Army. LEAVE is fundamentally a pro-American campaign, whereas REMAIN is fundamentally pro-European. If you want to be subservient to a man who can be bought with the girly favours of Russian oilgarchs, bully to you.
It was the British and Americans who liberated Europe in WW2 from the last pan European army headed by one Adolf Hitler.
Not forgetting the Russians obvs.
Not sure they did much 'liberation', though.
Fair point. But would Hitler have ever been defeated if the Russians had not held out?
That's the point of the EU Army. LEAVE is fundamentally a pro-American campaign, whereas REMAIN is fundamentally pro-European. If you want to be subservient to a man who can be bought with the girly favours of Russian oilgarchs, bully to you.
It was the British and Americans who liberated Europe in WW2 from the last pan European army headed by one Adolf Hitler.
Not forgetting the Russians obvs.
Not sure they did much 'liberation', though.
They defeated nazi Germany. In manpower terms. We - the US - shortened the time it took by providing materièl
Of course. But I was referring to the term 'liberate'. I can't imagine the Poles, or the Czechs, felt particularly 'liberated' when the Red Army passed through. Instead they had to suffer decades more of occupation and oppression.
That's the point of the EU Army. LEAVE is fundamentally a pro-American campaign, whereas REMAIN is fundamentally pro-European. If you want to be subservient to a man who can be bought with the girly favours of Russian oilgarchs, bully to you.
It was the British and Americans who liberated western Europe in WW2 from the last pan European army headed by one Adolf Hitler.
A European army running alongside NATO may work well, a European army as a rival to NATO will not
Huh ? Who started pushing the Nazis back from December 1941 onwards. The allies landed in France in June 1944 !
If I were Trump I would avoid Guiliani talking to Congress, if only because he's repeatedly gone off the reservation. The chance of him saying something regretted later has to be pretty high.
I agree he has flaky form. If you haven’t seen this interview he looks rattled imo. Got a sweat on. Went big on the crimes of Biden his investigation allowed him to uncover. (Are we quite sure Biden is squeaky clean in this affair)
I’m still not convinced they’ve got enough on Trump to impeach him. He’s just not stupid enough to incriminate himself on the phone, he’s just not stupid enough to leave his fingerprint’s all over the smoking gun. If he flew lackys over there to threaten off record, then there won’t be enough evidence.
If he asked for favour wheres the delivered favour? That would be the evidence to take into court. Without that, its a court of law you need to go into it with enough to win. if you know he's guilty but you cant be sure of conviction don’t impeach. impeachment fires up his base, a failed impeachment gives him a win. 13 months time an election, if he has made mistakes use it against him in the campaign instead.
That's the point of the EU Army. LEAVE is fundamentally a pro-American campaign, whereas REMAIN is fundamentally pro-European. If you want to be subservient to a man who can be bought with the girly favours of Russian oilgarchs, bully to you.
It was the British and Americans who liberated Europe in WW2 from the last pan European army headed by one Adolf Hitler.
Not forgetting the Russians obvs.
Not sure they did much 'liberation', though.
They defeated nazi Germany. In manpower terms. We - the US - shortened the time it took by providing materièl
Of course. But I was referring to the term 'liberate'. I can't imagine the Poles, or the Czechs, felt particularly 'liberated' when the Red Army passed through. Instead they had to suffer decades more of occupation and oppression.
It could be argued that in defeating Nazi Germany the Russians effectively liberated western Europe, and ultimately (albeit with a 45 year delay) the whole of Europe.
Fair point. But would Hitler have ever been defeated if the Russians had not held out?
Not for a considerable time, if ever. The two crucial points were Britain successfully standing alone in 1940, and the Soviet Union surviving the Nazi onslaught in 1941/2. Both were essential to the eventual defeat of Hitler - and what a narrow escape it was.
That's the point of the EU Army. LEAVE is fundamentally a pro-American campaign, whereas REMAIN is fundamentally pro-European. If you want to be subservient to a man who can be bought with the girly favours of Russian oilgarchs, bully to you.
It was the British and Americans who liberated western Europe in WW2 from the last pan European army headed by one Adolf Hitler.
A European army running alongside NATO may work well, a European army as a rival to NATO will not
Huh ? Who started pushing the Nazis back from December 1941 onwards. The allies landed in France in June 1944 !
Which does not change the point France, the Netherlands, Belgium, Italy, Luxembourg, Denmark, Norway and ultimately west Germany itself ie western Europe were all liberated by the Allies not the Russians exactly as I said.
That's the point of the EU Army. LEAVE is fundamentally a pro-American campaign, whereas REMAIN is fundamentally pro-European. If you want to be subservient to a man who can be bought with the girly favours of Russian oilgarchs, bully to you.
It was the British and Americans who liberated Europe in WW2 from the last pan European army headed by one Adolf Hitler.
Not forgetting the Russians obvs.
Not sure they did much 'liberation', though.
They defeated nazi Germany. In manpower terms. We - the US - shortened the time it took by providing materièl
Of course. But I was referring to the term 'liberate'. I can't imagine the Poles, or the Czechs, felt particularly 'liberated' when the Red Army passed through. Instead they had to suffer decades more of occupation and oppression.
It could be argued that in defeating Nazi Germany the Russians effectively liberated western Europe, and ultimately (albeit with a 45 year delay) the whole of Europe.
Fair point. But would Hitler have ever been defeated if the Russians had not held out?
Not for a considerable time, if ever. The two crucial points were Britain successfully standing alone in 1940, and the Soviet Union surviving the Nazi onslaught in 1941/2. Both were essential to the eventual defeat of Hitler - and what a narrow escape it was.
Indeed. And if you saw the excellent BBC series 'Rise of the Nazis', how easy it was for democracy to slip into dictatorship.
That's the point of the EU Army. LEAVE is fundamentally a pro-American campaign, whereas REMAIN is fundamentally pro-European. If you want to be subservient to a man who can be bought with the girly favours of Russian oilgarchs, bully to you.
It was the British and Americans who liberated western Europe in WW2 from the last pan European army headed by one Adolf Hitler.
A European army running alongside NATO may work well, a European army as a rival to NATO will not
Huh ? Who started pushing the Nazis back from December 1941 onwards. The allies landed in France in June 1944 !
Which does not change the point France, the Netherlands, Belgium, Italy, Luxembourg, Denmark, Norway and ultimately west Germany itself ie western Europe were all liberated by the Allies not the Russians exactly as I said.
That's the point of the EU Army. LEAVE is fundamentally a pro-American campaign, whereas REMAIN is fundamentally pro-European. If you want to be subservient to a man who can be bought with the girly favours of Russian oilgarchs, bully to you.
It was the British and Americans who liberated western Europe in WW2 from the last pan European army headed by one Adolf Hitler.
A European army running alongside NATO may work well, a European army as a rival to NATO will not
Huh ? Who started pushing the Nazis back from December 1941 onwards. The allies landed in France in June 1944 !
Which does not change the point France, the Netherlands, Belgium, Italy, Luxembourg, Denmark, Norway and ultimately west Germany itself ie western Europe were all liberated by the Allies not the Russians exactly as I said.
Russia was one of the Allies.
@HYUFD prefers to airbrush the Russians out of the defeat of the Nazis.
If I were Trump I would avoid Guiliani talking to Congress, if only because he's repeatedly gone off the reservation. The chance of him saying something regretted later has to be pretty high.
I agree he has flaky form. If you haven’t seen this interview he looks rattled imo. Got a sweat on. Went big on the crimes of Biden his investigation allowed him to uncover. (Are we quite sure Biden is squeaky clean in this affair)
I’m still not convinced they’ve got enough on Trump to impeach him. He’s just not stupid enough to incriminate himself on the phone, he’s just not stupid enough to leave his fingerprint’s all over the smoking gun. If he flew lackys over there to threaten off record, then there won’t be enough evidence.
If he asked for favour wheres the delivered favour? That would be the evidence to take into court. Without that, its a court of law you need to go into it with enough to win. if you know he's guilty but you cant be sure of conviction don’t impeach. impeachment fires up his base, a failed impeachment gives him a win. 13 months time an election, if he has made mistakes use it against him in the campaign instead.
I don't think the Dems really expect or want to impeach Trump; impeaching him puts president Pence in and Pence would have a far better chance than Trump of winning in 2020.
That's the point of the EU Army. LEAVE is fundamentally a pro-American campaign, whereas REMAIN is fundamentally pro-European. If you want to be subservient to a man who can be bought with the girly favours of Russian oilgarchs, bully to you.
It was the British and Americans who liberated western Europe in WW2 from the last pan European army headed by one Adolf Hitler.
A European army running alongside NATO may work well, a European army as a rival to NATO will not
Huh ? Who started pushing the Nazis back from December 1941 onwards. The allies landed in France in June 1944 !
Which does not change the point France, the Netherlands, Belgium, Italy, Luxembourg, Denmark, Norway and ultimately west Germany itself ie western Europe were all liberated by the Allies not the Russians exactly as I said.
Russia was one of the Allies.
Up to a point....
You think the Western nations would be free if "liberated" by the Russians?
That's the point of the EU Army. LEAVE is fundamentally a pro-American campaign, whereas REMAIN is fundamentally pro-European. If you want to be subservient to a man who can be bought with the girly favours of Russian oilgarchs, bully to you.
It was the British and Americans who liberated western Europe in WW2 from the last pan European army headed by one Adolf Hitler.
A European army running alongside NATO may work well, a European army as a rival to NATO will not
Huh ? Who started pushing the Nazis back from December 1941 onwards. The allies landed in France in June 1944 !
Which does not change the point France, the Netherlands, Belgium, Italy, Luxembourg, Denmark, Norway and ultimately west Germany itself ie western Europe were all liberated by the Allies not the Russians exactly as I said.
Russia was one of the Allies.
Russia did not liberate western Europe, not one Russian soldier was involved in freeing France, the Benelux nations, Italy, Scandinavia etc from Nazi rule, only American, British and Commonwealth nations were
That's the point of the EU Army. LEAVE is fundamentally a pro-American campaign, whereas REMAIN is fundamentally pro-European. If you want to be subservient to a man who can be bought with the girly favours of Russian oilgarchs, bully to you.
It was the British and Americans who liberated Europe in WW2 from the last pan European army headed by one Adolf Hitler.
Not forgetting the Russians obvs.
Not sure they did much 'liberation', though.
They defeated nazi Germany. In manpower terms. We - the US - shortened the time it took by providing materièl
Of course. But I was referring to the term 'liberate'. I can't imagine the Poles, or the Czechs, felt particularly 'liberated' when the Red Army passed through. Instead they had to suffer decades more of occupation and oppression.
It could be argued that in defeating Nazi Germany the Russians effectively liberated western Europe, and ultimately (albeit with a 45 year delay) the whole of Europe.
Fair point. But would Hitler have ever been defeated if the Russians had not held out?
It's an interesting counterfactual for sure. We'd have been next, at least, and pretty dubious we could have held out given the sheer resources the Germans could then bring back west.
Then the Americans? I'm presuming they'd have pressed on against Japan regardless, but after that? Invading Europe with no Russian front, no UK staging point …….. the cost would be insane.
Then there's the nuclear element - I guess the Americans still get there first, but what then?
More like - "It wasn't me mate - look over there".
It really is rather sad that people ignore what Bercow has done because he is helping their side.
I don’t think anyone thinks he’s a saint . However everything that’s happened since 2017 is down to the Tories lack of a majority but acting as if they had a landslide .
If the government had a majority and a united party then there’s nothing Bercow could have done .
Bercow is just the latest scapegoat for the right wing .
That's the point of the EU Army. LEAVE is fundamentally a pro-American campaign, whereas REMAIN is fundamentally pro-European. If you want to be subservient to a man who can be bought with the girly favours of Russian oilgarchs, bully to you.
It was the British and Americans who liberated western Europe in WW2 from the last pan European army headed by one Adolf Hitler.
A European army running alongside NATO may work well, a European army as a rival to NATO will not
Huh ? Who started pushing the Nazis back from December 1941 onwards. The allies landed in France in June 1944 !
Which does not change the point France, the Netherlands, Belgium, Italy, Luxembourg, Denmark, Norway and ultimately west Germany itself ie western Europe were all liberated by the Allies not the Russians exactly as I said.
Russia was one of the Allies.
Russia did not liberate western Europe, not one Russian soldier was involved in freeing France, the Benelux nations, Italy, Scandinavia etc from Nazi rule, only American, British and Commonwealth nations were
You think that western Europe would have been easier to liberate if Germany wasn’t trying to hold back the Russians on the eastern front?
WW2 was won with american money and russian blood. Learn your history.
Tom Watson appeals to our better nature with an "aim high" strategy. In his next tweet, though he's ranting about the Tories being a "sinister extremist sect".
That's the point of the EU Army. LEAVE is fundamentally a pro-American campaign, whereas REMAIN is fundamentally pro-European. If you want to be subservient to a man who can be bought with the girly favours of Russian oilgarchs, bully to you.
It was the British and Americans who liberated western Europe in WW2 from the last pan European army headed by one Adolf Hitler.
A European army running alongside NATO may work well, a European army as a rival to NATO will not
Huh ? Who started pushing the Nazis back from December 1941 onwards. The allies landed in France in June 1944 !
Which does not change the point France, the Netherlands, Belgium, Italy, Luxembourg, Denmark, Norway and ultimately west Germany itself ie western Europe were all liberated by the Allies not the Russians exactly as I said.
Russia was one of the Allies.
Russia did not liberate western Europe, not one Russian soldier was involved in freeing France, the Benelux nations, Italy, Scandinavia etc from Nazi rule, only American, British and Commonwealth nations were
Well they were involved indirectly, by defeating so many German divisions on the Eastern Front - but then of course were it not for Britain still being in the war in 1941 there would have been more German divisions to defeat the Soviets. It was an alliance and a joint victory.
What was not joint was the attitude and behaviour towards the countries that had been occupied by the Nazis - which was Nabavi's point.
That's the point of the EU Army. LEAVE is fundamentally a pro-American campaign, whereas REMAIN is fundamentally pro-European. If you want to be subservient to a man who can be bought with the girly favours of Russian oilgarchs, bully to you.
It was the British and Americans who liberated western Europe in WW2 from the last pan European army headed by one Adolf Hitler.
A European army running alongside NATO may work well, a European army as a rival to NATO will not
Huh ? Who started pushing the Nazis back from December 1941 onwards. The allies landed in France in June 1944 !
Which does not change the point France, the Netherlands, Belgium, Italy, Luxembourg, Denmark, Norway and ultimately west Germany itself ie western Europe were all liberated by the Allies not the Russians exactly as I said.
Russia was one of the Allies.
Russia did not liberate... Scandinavia etc from Nazi rule, only American, British and Commonwealth nations were
I don't think the Dems really expect or want to impeach Trump; impeaching him puts president Pence in and Pence would have a far better chance than Trump of winning in 2020.
Dunno though, maybe the GOP primary voters would nominate Trump again...
That's the point of the EU Army. LEAVE is fundamentally a pro-American campaign, whereas REMAIN is fundamentally pro-European. If you want to be subservient to a man who can be bought with the girly favours of Russian oilgarchs, bully to you.
It was the British and Americans who liberated western Europe in WW2 from the last pan European army headed by one Adolf Hitler.
A European army running alongside NATO may work well, a European army as a rival to NATO will not
Huh ? Who started pushing the Nazis back from December 1941 onwards. The allies landed in France in June 1944 !
Which does not change the point France, the Netherlands, Belgium, Italy, Luxembourg, Denmark, Norway and ultimately west Germany itself ie western Europe were all liberated by the Allies not the Russians exactly as I said.
Russia was one of the Allies.
Russia did not liberate western Europe, not one Russian soldier was involved in freeing France, the Benelux nations, Italy, Scandinavia etc from Nazi rule, only American, British and Commonwealth nations were
Well they were involved indirectly, by defeating so many German divisions on the Eastern Front - but then of course were it not for Britain still being in the war in 1941 there would have been more German divisions to defeat the Soviets. It was an alliance and a joint victory.
What was not joint was the attitude and behaviour towards the countries that had been occupied by the Nazis - which was Nabavi's point.
Putin is no Stalin though, he is a right wing ethno-nationalist, a modern czar. He is no threat to Western Europe, so NATO is obsolete.
Comments
https://twitter.com/bbchelena/status/1177686449824653314?s=21
He has a shit load of sewage he wants to spray. Hes champing at the bit for it
Has any other PM ever stayed in office with this amount of failure and accusation against him?
And be careful, he has been referred to see if an investigation is warranted, he is not yet under investigation
Funny that.
Gove was helping organise his leadership campaign and they'd been high profile working together for months, then Gove stabbed him in the back and launched his own campaign and momentum within the Parliamentary Power ebbed away rapidly from him and it was clear MPs weren't going to nominate him . . . and they didn't nominate Gove either.
I like Gove a lot but his decision to do that leading to May being elected was disastrous.
Your reply makes little sense to me
https://twitter.com/simongerman600/status/1177596263841370113?s=19
Gove is a fool.
There are things I can do now that I couldn't do then..like a 100 good (non stop) press ups....but I doubt I could recover that quickly from a full on bender....
If Bozo refuses and misses the deadline , it’s contempt of court . If at that point they VONC and sign it he will still have committed contempt of court.
It is a great metaphor, but it was designed to describe the decision process of fighter pilots making sub second decisions.
Whilst it is applicable to a wide variety of situations it is not without elements that need to be translated.
Proroguing parliament for a GE is one thing, doing it to prevent parliament from stopping a crazy No Deal Brexit is another thing. I have voted Tory in every GE since I got the vote, I will not be voting for the Tories again whilst the current stupid Brexit nonsense is still being advocated...
https://youtu.be/zD-JHG0iVHg
And the Neslon Mandela 70th Birthday concert at Wembley. A monster gathering of artists for that. The little-known Tracey Chapman a particular highlight, she did two sets. Also the Eurythmics, Simple Minds, Stevie Wonder, Al Green, George Michael, Peter Gabriel, Whitney Houston.....
We then sack the boss over xmas time
A European army running alongside NATO may work well, a European army as a rival to NATO will not
I was on my LNER train back to Edinburgh yesterday, and it came to a halt at the platform exactly 60 minutes and 9 seconds late, a timing that I verified by checking my phone against the station clock, but the arrival time given in the data from Network Rail - available on websites like opentraintimes.com is 59 minutes late - which would mean that I miss out on half a delay repay refund.
What I wonder is whether the timing point at the station is at the end of the platform, so will always be upto half a minute earlier than the actual arrival time? Does anyone know?
I have never supported John McDonnell and don't agree with him calling for lynching.
I have to say in terms of politics I reluctantly think you have lost it trying to project this or that onto me. What is the point?
You voted for Brexit, I did not and I oppose it. We will never agree and I regret the Conservative party has become hijacked by Brexiteer madness. If people like you want to commit economic and political suicide, go ahead but don't expect me to want to go through it as well...
I’m still not convinced they’ve got enough on Trump to impeach him. He’s just not stupid enough to incriminate himself on the phone, he’s just not stupid enough to leave his fingerprint’s all over the smoking gun. If he flew lackys over there to threaten off record, then there won’t be enough evidence.
If he asked for favour wheres the delivered favour? That would be the evidence to take into court. Without that, its a court of law you need to go into it with enough to win. if you know he's guilty but you cant be sure of conviction don’t impeach. impeachment fires up his base, a failed impeachment gives him a win. 13 months time an election, if he has made mistakes use it against him in the campaign instead.
Hobbits for Hate
The constant off the record briefings are a sign of desperation . The latest desperate offering is ironically to try to use EU law .
The stench of desperation from no 10 is clearly designed to force a VONC which shows no sign of happening anytime soon .
Josefine Mutzenbacher recently opened a Tech Bar/cafe Die Muschi in Pimlico.
You think the Western nations would be free if "liberated" by the Russians?
Then the Americans? I'm presuming they'd have pressed on against Japan regardless, but after that? Invading Europe with no Russian front, no UK staging point …….. the cost would be insane.
Then there's the nuclear element - I guess the Americans still get there first, but what then?
If the government had a majority and a united party then there’s nothing Bercow could have done .
Bercow is just the latest scapegoat for the right wing .
WW2 was won with american money and russian blood. Learn your history.
Just kidding. It's in *the same tweet*
https://mobile.twitter.com/tom_watson/status/1177641878939942913
What was not joint was the attitude and behaviour towards the countries that had been occupied by the Nazis - which was Nabavi's point.