Why is it, by the way, that males are assertive and forceful, but females are pushy and bossy? Never quite got my head around that.
Or of course - 'feisty'.
The sexist lite option.
Except Nigel, who I have clashed with on several occasions, did not say she was bossy and provided examples of male pushy people. So while the point that words like that often are used in sexist fashion is definitely true, it undermines that case by making it next to something which is not an example of it.
She should be telling kids to learn as much physics & engineering & science as possible.
I get where you're coming from, but the science is settled. It's now a purely political issue. We either do what is right or we do what is easy. I would argue strongly that the experience of striking is incredibly educational. Education is more that just book learning in school. You learn by listening and reading, but you also learn by doing.
I went on strike once. Just before the Iraq war, there was a push to have people go out on a wildcat strike in protest. I was the ringleader of a group of people in my office who all decided we were up for it. We told our bosses in advance what we planned to do, that we weren't protesting against the working conditions but because we were working on a project for the government we had to register a protest. We were told in no uncertain terms that if we did it, we'd be fired. That caused some people to back out. Then the war started, and it happened. We did it. We turned up for work and then walked out.
The bit that taught me a lot was the reaction at work. The strikers went back into work the next day. Nothing happened. Nobody was fired, nobody ever broached the subject, not directly and not obliquely. A couple of the ones who backed out admitted they were ashamed of caving into the pressure and wished they'd taken part after all now they knew it had been safe all along, but I understood why they did it. I think they learned as much as we did from it. From the action and the inaction.
The righteousness, or otherwise, of any strike is always in the eye of the beholder.
I don’t agree with all the actions of Extinction Rebellion however I pay credit to all those young people who have stood up and tried to make politicians see sense and do more to combat climate change .
The reaction of the right towards Greta Thunberg has been a disgrace , truly reprehensible .
In my case, I quite admire her even though I'm not a fan. Admiring her doesn't mean I can't criticise her when I think she says stuff that's wrong, or takes the wrong approach.
My uppermost thought is that she's setting herself up for a fall. I hope she has strong support around her if it does happen. I fear many of those who are currently using her (*) will disappear into the woodwork.
Why is it, by the way, that males are assertive and forceful, but females are pushy and bossy? Never quite got my head around that.
Or of course - 'feisty'.
The sexist lite option.
Except Nigel, who I have clashed with on several occasions, did not say she was bossy and provided examples of male pushy people. So while the point that words like that often are used in sexist fashion is definitely true, it undermines that case by making it next to something which is not an example of it.
thank you Mr Kle, very kind. It was a diversion and an attempt to distort what I said because I do not particularly like juveniles being manipulated by older people, which I think is highly likely to be the case.
I don’t agree with all the actions of Extinction Rebellion however I pay credit to all those young people who have stood up and tried to make politicians see sense and do more to combat climate change .
The reaction of the right towards Greta Thunberg has been a disgrace , truly reprehensible .
ALL of the right, really? wow
Yeah, all of the right. Every single one of you. But you especially.
She should be telling kids to learn as much physics & engineering & science as possible.
I get where you're coming from, but the science is settled. It's now a purely political issue. We either do what is right or we do what is easy. I would argue strongly that the experience of striking is incredibly educational. Education is more that just book learning in school. You learn by listening and reading, but you also learn by doing.
I went on strike once. Just before the Iraq war, there was a push to have people go out on a wildcat strike in protest. I was the ringleader of a group of people in my office who all decided we were up for it. We told our bosses in advance what we planned to do, that we weren't protesting against the working conditions but because we were working on a project for the government we had to register a protest. We were told in no uncertain terms that if we did it, we'd be fired. That caused some people to back out. Then the war started, and it happened. We did it. We turned up for work and then walked out.
The bit that taught me a lot was the reaction at work. The strikers went back into work the next day. Nothing happened. Nobody was fired, nobody ever broached the subject, not directly and not obliquely. A couple of the ones who backed out admitted they were ashamed of caving into the pressure and wished they'd taken part after all now they knew it had been safe all along, but I understood why they did it. I think they learned as much as we did from it. From the action and the inaction.
The righteousness, or otherwise, of any strike is always in the eye of the beholder.
Sure. But you learn something from it, that's my point. Recently I've been worried about a possible strike being called in my sector. I don't want to cross a picket line, but I will because I'm against it. Yet I would strike in other circumstances. Strikes are not good or bad per se, they just are.
You know at the 2017 election the Tories tried to paint the Labour manifesto as barking mad but struggled because it had a cloak of well-costed common sense? Yeah, that’s not happening this time...
I don’t agree with all the actions of Extinction Rebellion however I pay credit to all those young people who have stood up and tried to make politicians see sense and do more to combat climate change .
The reaction of the right towards Greta Thunberg has been a disgrace , truly reprehensible .
ALL of the right, really? wow
Yeah, all of the right. Every single one of you. But you especially.
Ok, find me one post I have made about her that is a disgrace......
So over 3 years after the referendum and barely 5 weeks before Britain faces a disorderly withdrawal from the EU Labour have decided that they won’t decide whether they are in favour of Leave or Remain until later.
Is that right?
I suppose after 31 October - if Boris gets his way - it won’t matter anyway. Corbyn won’t campaign to Rejoin. The Lib Dems probably will. But that will be a very long uphill battle and the EU probably won’t want us back for a very long time, if ever.
I think today's vote as I understand it is worse than Corbyn's position just last week. If my understanding is correct, if there is a Labour deal , it will be on the ballot paper with Remain as the other option. So far so good. However, until this vote members would be free to vote [ or campaign ] which way they preferred. But now , I believe, there will be a Party line. So this is much worse.
Is it 2 CLPs submit motion saying Corbyn sucks, a third submits motion saying Oh Jeremy Corbyn, a fair and balanced committee sits late into the night to come up with a Oh Jeremy Corbyn composite?
You know at the 2017 election the Tories tried to paint the Labour manifesto as barking mad but struggled because it had a cloak of well-costed common sense? Yeah, that’s not happening this time...
The manifesto will not have a lot of this stuff in it.
Below the line is a comment I might just have to borrow
"It’s only a shame Labour didn’t ban private education decades ago, then Jeremy Corbyn, Seumas Milne, Andrew Murray ( and others) might have found themselves employed, not in politics ,but at Tescos ( If they would have them)"
TC were totally and utterly bust, drowning in debt and should have gone to the wall years ago.
What I want to know is, why did lenders keep on lending to them for so long?
Because they did secured lending on their planes, I would guess.
Do they have planes? Aren't they likely to be leased?
Boeing used to do 120% funding for new low cost carriers, where you could borrow £120m for every £100m you spent on new planes.
Really? Presumably they’d list the planes at £120m and insist you insured them for that amount?
Probably a nervous aircraft lease company or two around today as well, plenty of bills not paid and aircraft impounded by authorities all over the place.
I don't think you can insure planes for above replacement cost. (Or at least, not legally.)
Both Airbus and Boeing have provided a metric fuck tonne of vendor financing to start-up airlines. Some people managed to start with airlines with $1bn of airplanes with just a few million dollars down, by making use of the generous loans guaranteed by the manufacturers*.
From Boeing's (or Airbus's) point of view, you'd make it up on maintenance and future plane sales. Not only that, but the loans would be contingent on the operator not buying any planes from your competitor.
* This is very similar to the mobile phone operator world, where Ericsson, Nokia and the like, would often finance the vast bulk of a startup company's costs.
I don’t agree with all the actions of Extinction Rebellion however I pay credit to all those young people who have stood up and tried to make politicians see sense and do more to combat climate change .
The reaction of the right towards Greta Thunberg has been a disgrace , truly reprehensible .
Who could criticise Greta? For years the only thing that could get the young off their backsides and campaigned has been to get bigger grants for themselves. This could be the start of the hippy's second coming. Lets hope so. They can move onto disarmament and cutting the military.
David Milliband needs to be kidnapped and forced by whatever means to take control, by whatever method, of this sorry nasty mess of a party. Only then can sanity be restored.
You know at the 2017 election the Tories tried to paint the Labour manifesto as barking mad but struggled because it had a cloak of well-costed common sense? Yeah, that’s not happening this time...
Why not? Are we to expect a Tory manifesto that is not barking mad to distinguish the Labour one?
As it happens I don't recall a great deal about the manifestos last time, though I did read all the major party ones (and the Greens). My enduring impression of the Labour one was it was a bit chaotic and busy, lots of smaller things muddling up the message. The LD was confused about whether it was a pitch to be opposition or government, and the Tory one was dementia tax dementia tax (actually that didn't stand out so much at the time, it seemed reasonable in theory, but it's all I can remember now).
David Milliband needs to be kidnapped and forced by whatever means to take control, by whatever method, of this sorry nasty mess of a party. Only then can sanity be restored.
No. Sensible Labour and Tory party members, MPs, councillors need to leave their cults and either join up with the LDs or start afresh.
I once read that a successful marriage needs both parties to try to do 60% of the work. In the UK right now, Remainers and Leavers expect the other side to do 90%. The same is true of the UK and EU negotiations. It is just layering bad blood on top of bad blood.
This might work for the "let's make the world burn" Trump-types but it boggles my mind that Remainers, who want us to have a long-lasting membership of the EU, think it's a good idea.
The problem is logical thoughts aren't leading this on either side. Visceral, self-righteous desire to crush the other side is.
While I go along with this in general, the context is a failed Brexit policy. Do we accept half a failure? Maybe we do, but the point is, the compromise isn't just the midpoint between two positions where both sides get more than half of what they want.
The main problem has been that Leave won by a very small margin, but it's most vociferous supporters subsequently behaved if they won with 92% of the vote, rather than the more measly 52% . If they had been more magnanimous in victory it would have been a better outcome
Yes, that's correct. Equally had Remainers been more magnanimous in defeat it would have been a better outcome. But from the beginning, they refused to even accept a BINO solution, much less one that addressed the concerns of Leavers.
Now both sides need to give a little and work out something in the middle, dealing with each other in good faith.
May's deal was not BINO.
Indeed, it was a pretty hard Brexit. Nowhere near a compromise. If the headbangers had been offered this on a plate in 2015 they would have scoffed it down without being able to believe their luck. After the referendum they thought they had a whip hand to make it as extreme as they could.
TC were totally and utterly bust, drowning in debt and should have gone to the wall years ago.
What I want to know is, why did lenders keep on lending to them for so long?
Because they did secured lending on their planes, I would guess.
Do they have planes? Aren't they likely to be leased?
Boeing used to do 120% funding for new low cost carriers, where you could borrow £120m for every £100m you spent on new planes.
Really? Presumably they’d list the planes at £120m and insist you insured them for that amount?
Probably a nervous aircraft lease company or two around today as well, plenty of bills not paid and aircraft impounded by authorities all over the place.
I don't think you can insure planes for above replacement cost. (Or at least, not legally.)
Both Airbus and Boeing have provided a metric fuck tonne of vendor financing to start-up airlines. Some people managed to start with airlines with $1bn of airplanes with just a few million dollars down, by making use of the generous loans guaranteed by the manufacturers*.
From Boeing's (or Airbus's) point of view, you'd make it up on maintenance and future plane sales. Not only that, but the loans would be contingent on the operator not buying any planes from your competitor.
* This is very similar to the mobile phone operator world, where Ericsson, Nokia and the like, would often finance the vast bulk of a startup company's costs.
Airline equipment is insured on an Agreed Value basis rather than an insured value.
I don’t agree with all the actions of Extinction Rebellion however I pay credit to all those young people who have stood up and tried to make politicians see sense and do more to combat climate change .
The reaction of the right towards Greta Thunberg has been a disgrace , truly reprehensible .
Who could criticise Greta? For years the only thing that could get the young off their backsides and campaigned has been to get bigger grants for themselves. This could be the start of the hippy's second coming. Lets hope so. They can move onto disarmament and cutting the military.
Roger, its just the ususal middle class lefty bollocks of saying how much better you are than everyone else and how you are ashamed of your society. The usual cowardly crap of nagging people you know cant be arsed to hit back,
Do something brave for a change and head off to China the worlds biggest polluter and tell them to stop. be doubly brave and do it in Xinjiang.
The Spectator columnist James Delingpole has much to say about climate change.
He has no truck with the scientific consensus.
James Delingpole has no truck with knowing his fundament from his cubital.
Lol! My son did his PhD on the subject and now lectures in related matters at the Royal College of Agriculture. I once suggested to him that the scientific case for climate change was maybe overstated, or questionable.
You know the kind of look you see on someone's face when they see some rotten bananas, or maybe a particularly unpleasant piece of road kill in the gutter?
David Milliband needs to be kidnapped and forced by whatever means to take control, by whatever method, of this sorry nasty mess of a party. Only then can sanity be restored.
No. Sensible Labour and Tory party members, MPs, councillors need to leave their cults and either join up with the LDs or start afresh.
I've reflected before I am surprised not to have seen more of a movement with councillors. It's easy to just lie low and ignore the national debate, but it is also easier to cross the floor in local government, in some pretty surprising directions at times too, but we don't hear much about really major movements. As for MPs, it's true, but in fairness at least a view have cracked and finally realised their parties are not what they personally can still support.
Alternatively, the parties are doing a far better job than it appears in still being relatively broad and keepign people on board. Or they are just that scared of going solo.
And if someone is 'Party X for life' that is cult like behaviour.
I don’t agree with all the actions of Extinction Rebellion however I pay credit to all those young people who have stood up and tried to make politicians see sense and do more to combat climate change .
The reaction of the right towards Greta Thunberg has been a disgrace , truly reprehensible .
Who could criticise Greta? For years the only thing that could get the young off their backsides and campaigned has been to get bigger grants for themselves. This could be the start of the hippy's second coming. Lets hope so. They can move onto disarmament and cutting the military.
There are some things I like about the Labour Party having watched their conference. They seem to give a damn about refugees the poor and downtrodden at home and abroad and their moral compass always starts from having a social conscience. The very opposite of what I see at Tory conferences in fact. Who can forget the cheering hordes when Peter Lilly brought out his little list
I don’t agree with all the actions of Extinction Rebellion however I pay credit to all those young people who have stood up and tried to make politicians see sense and do more to combat climate change .
The reaction of the right towards Greta Thunberg has been a disgrace , truly reprehensible .
Who could criticise Greta? For years the only thing that could get the young off their backsides and campaigned has been to get bigger grants for themselves. This could be the start of the hippy's second coming. Lets hope so. They can move onto disarmament and cutting the military.
Roger, its just the ususal middle class lefty bollocks of saying how much better you are than everyone else and how you are ashamed of your society. The usual cowardly crap of nagging people you know cant be arsed to hit back,
Do something brave for a change and head of to China the worlds biggest polluter and tell them to stop. be doubly brave and do it in Xinjiang.
Er, no it's really not. The climate emergency is real and pointing that out isn't "lefty" or "middle class" or, indeed, "bollocks".
I don’t agree with all the actions of Extinction Rebellion however I pay credit to all those young people who have stood up and tried to make politicians see sense and do more to combat climate change .
The reaction of the right towards Greta Thunberg has been a disgrace , truly reprehensible .
Who could criticise Greta? For years the only thing that could get the young off their backsides and campaigned has been to get bigger grants for themselves. This could be the start of the hippy's second coming. Lets hope so. They can move onto disarmament and cutting the military.
Roger, its just the ususal middle class lefty bollocks of saying how much better you are than everyone else and how you are ashamed of your society. The usual cowardly crap of nagging people you know cant be arsed to hit back,
Do something brave for a change and head of to China the worlds biggest polluter and tell them to stop. be doubly brave and do it in Xinjiang.
Er, no it's really not. The climate emergency is real and pointing that out isn't "lefty" or "middle class" or, indeed, "bollocks".
so why arent you in China? The UK impact on climate change even today is minimal.
Imagine, for a moment, what might happen if the Lib Dems looked like a more credible opposition *nationally*. It's far from unreasonable to think that the Labour share might slump to 10% or so.
Yeah right get off the drugs David
Would that be the same complacency that Scottish Labour showed? How are they doing these days?
The figures are there for you to see. It's not my fault if you deliberately ignore them.
You were a 2017 Corbyn underestimator too weren't you.
In April, yes. In June, no.
But then the nature of the 2017 campaign played perfectly for Corbyn. He would be foolish to assume an exceptional set of circumstances was a natural law of politics.
1. Corbyn got a second hearing from the public; there's no e from the public; Boris Johnson's is not. That might bring risks but the balance favours Johnson.
5. The Tory manifesto in 2017 was a disaster for the party; the 2019 one, going by policy changes so far, has been properly prepared for in terms of political campaigning (which is not the same as being entirely responsible).
6. Brexit in 2017 was a distant concept: there was plenty of time to think about other things. It will be far harder for Labour (or anyone) to shift the focus of the election in 2019.
7. Labour has no credible Brexit policy: a fact which is likely to dog them throughout the campaign.
8. The Lib Dems wasted 2017 arguing about gay sex. They will not waste 2019, having a clear and distinctive Brexit policy that they can explain in 2 seconds, and which is aimed at Lab supporters.
9. Labour is unveiling a lot of very expensive policies. Who is going to explain where the money is going to come from to pay for them? Diane Abbott?
10. Things could indeed get better for Labour in an election campaign: they could also get worse with public exposure.
Your point 2 is not accurate. Labour's polling today - in relation to the Tories - is far better than in April 2017. At that time there were no polls giving the Tories a 2% lead - most were in the 20% - 25% range. Theresa May may have been ineffective - but was never seen as malign , disreputable - and some might now suggest corrupt - as Johnson.
The Brexit Party was not a factor in 2017 and at least one poll in the last week has had the LDs ahead of Labour also unlike 2017
Can someone explain how Labour conference voting works these days - Do the Unions get a number of delegates who agree to vote in predetermined fashion ? - Do the CLP delegates have to vote in a way instructed by their individual CLP ? - If the vote is done on a show of hands, how does anyone know how their delegates voted ?
Why is it, by the way, that males are assertive and forceful, but females are pushy and bossy? Never quite got my head around that.
Or of course - 'feisty'.
The sexist lite option.
In fairness the male equivalent descriptor of a 'bossy' female colleague is not quite so printable as 'assertive'.
On topic, is there any reliable data on how much tactical voting actually happens Vs how much people say they'll do it? I'd guess polling overrepresents GE VI tac voters by three or four times - as OGH identifies, more panellists are political junkies, and the 'if' question to safe seat voters tempts them to say they would switch as a zero-cost signal
There are some things I like about the Labour Party having watched their conference. They seem to give a damn about refugees the poor and downtrodden at home and abroad and their moral compass always starts from having a social conscience. The very opposite of what I see at Tory conferences in fact. Who can forget the cheering hordes when Peter Lilly brought out his little list
No, Corbyn Labour members give a damn about the class war and ranting at America and Israel, Tory members are more likely to be found at the WI or Rotary Club making a more practical difference
You know at the 2017 election the Tories tried to paint the Labour manifesto as barking mad but struggled because it had a cloak of well-costed common sense? Yeah, that’s not happening this time...
Why not? Are we to expect a Tory manifesto that is not barking mad to distinguish the Labour one?
As it happens I don't recall a great deal about the manifestos last time, though I did read all the major party ones (and the Greens). My enduring impression of the Labour one was it was a bit chaotic and busy, lots of smaller things muddling up the message. The LD was confused about whether it was a pitch to be opposition or government, and the Tory one was dementia tax dementia tax (actually that didn't stand out so much at the time, it seemed reasonable in theory, but it's all I can remember now).
Repetition, repetition, repetition. The Conservative manifesto contained the phrase strong and stable 15 times, along with four or five smooth and orderly Brexits.
I don’t agree with all the actions of Extinction Rebellion however I pay credit to all those young people who have stood up and tried to make politicians see sense and do more to combat climate change .
The reaction of the right towards Greta Thunberg has been a disgrace , truly reprehensible .
Who could criticise Greta? For years the only thing that could get the young off their backsides and campaigned has been to get bigger grants for themselves. This could be the start of the hippy's second coming. Lets hope so. They can move onto disarmament and cutting the military.
Roger, its just the ususal middle class lefty bollocks of saying how much better you are than everyone else and how you are ashamed of your society. The usual cowardly crap of nagging people you know cant be arsed to hit back,
Do something brave for a change and head of to China the worlds biggest polluter and tell them to stop. be doubly brave and do it in Xinjiang.
Er, no it's really not. The climate emergency is real and pointing that out isn't "lefty" or "middle class" or, indeed, "bollocks".
so why arent you in China? The UK impact on climate change even today is minimal.
Do I really have to explain to you why I have not moved to China?
There are some things I like about the Labour Party having watched their conference. They seem to give a damn about refugees the poor and downtrodden at home and abroad and their moral compass always starts from having a social conscience. The very opposite of what I see at Tory conferences in fact. Who can forget the cheering hordes when Peter Lilly brought out his little list
No, Corbyn Labour members give a damn about the class war and ranting at America and Israel, Tory members are more likely to be found at the WI or Rotary Club making a more practical difference
The Big Society? That died two prime ministers ago.
You know at the 2017 election the Tories tried to paint the Labour manifesto as barking mad but struggled because it had a cloak of well-costed common sense? Yeah, that’s not happening this time...
Why not? Are we to expect a Tory manifesto that is not barking mad to distinguish the Labour one?
As it happens I don't recall a great deal about the manifestos last time, though I did read all the major party ones (and the Greens). My enduring impression of the Labour one was it was a bit chaotic and busy, lots of smaller things muddling up the message. The LD was confused about whether it was a pitch to be opposition or government, and the Tory one was dementia tax dementia tax (actually that didn't stand out so much at the time, it seemed reasonable in theory, but it's all I can remember now).
Repetition, repetition, repetition. The Conservative manifesto contained the phrase strong and stable 15 times, along with four or five smooth and orderly Brexits.
I do remember that the Tory manifesto did not contain the word 'Corbyn', while the Labour one did name drop May several times.
I don’t agree with all the actions of Extinction Rebellion however I pay credit to all those young people who have stood up and tried to make politicians see sense and do more to combat climate change .
The reaction of the right towards Greta Thunberg has been a disgrace , truly reprehensible .
Who could criticise Greta? For years the only thing that could get the young off their backsides and campaigned has been to get bigger grants for themselves. This could be the start of the hippy's second coming. Lets hope so. They can move onto disarmament and cutting the military.
Roger, its just the ususal middle class lefty bollocks of saying how much better you are than everyone else and how you are ashamed of your society. The usual cowardly crap of nagging people you know cant be arsed to hit back,
Do something brave for a change and head of to China the worlds biggest polluter and tell them to stop. be doubly brave and do it in Xinjiang.
Er, no it's really not. The climate emergency is real and pointing that out isn't "lefty" or "middle class" or, indeed, "bollocks".
so why arent you in China? The UK impact on climate change even today is minimal.
Do I really have to explain to you why I have not moved to China?
You cant be bothered protesting at he biggest source of global pollution ?
I don’t agree with all the actions of Extinction Rebellion however I pay credit to all those young people who have stood up and tried to make politicians see sense and do more to combat climate change .
The reaction of the right towards Greta Thunberg has been a disgrace , truly reprehensible .
Who could criticise Greta? For years the only thing that could get the young off their backsides and campaigned has been to get bigger grants for themselves. This could be the start of the hippy's second coming. Lets hope so. They can move onto disarmament and cutting the military.
Roger, its just the ususal middle class lefty bollocks of saying how much better you are than everyone else and how you are ashamed of your society. The usual cowardly crap of nagging people you know cant be arsed to hit back,
Do something brave for a change and head off to China the worlds biggest polluter and tell them to stop. be doubly brave and do it in Xinjiang.
'Brave for a change'! While you were strumming a guitar in Johnny Roadhouse and buying your dope in Days of Hope without a care in he world I was working for a living
There are some things I like about the Labour Party having watched their conference. They seem to give a damn about refugees the poor and downtrodden at home and abroad and their moral compass always starts from having a social conscience. The very opposite of what I see at Tory conferences in fact. Who can forget the cheering hordes when Peter Lilly brought out his little list
No, Corbyn Labour members give a damn about the class war and ranting at America and Israel, Tory members are more likely to be found at the WI or Rotary Club making a more practical difference
Do Conservative members get to vote on any policies at their conference ?
So over 3 years after the referendum and barely 5 weeks before Britain faces a disorderly withdrawal from the EU Labour have decided that they won’t decide whether they are in favour of Leave or Remain until later.
Is that right?
I suppose after 31 October - if Boris gets his way - it won’t matter anyway. Corbyn won’t campaign to Rejoin. The Lib Dems probably will. But that will be a very long uphill battle and the EU probably won’t want us back for a very long time, if ever.
I think today's vote as I understand it is worse than Corbyn's position just last week. If my understanding is correct, if there is a Labour deal , it will be on the ballot paper with Remain as the other option. So far so good. However, until this vote members would be free to vote [ or campaign ] which way they preferred. But now , I believe, there will be a Party line. So this is much worse.
The motion (or composite I guess) that was defeated was about there being a party line. Thanks to the votes today people will be free to vote and campaign on whatever side of the referendum they want.
So for example Caroline Flint can campaign for the Brexit deal and Clive Lewis can campaign for the remain deal.
If composite 13 had passed I think there would be much less chance of a referendum happening, delighted it was rejected. I say this as someone who signed the 2nd referendum petition and someone who has always wanted one (been prepared not to have one previously but wanted it still)
There are some things I like about the Labour Party having watched their conference. They seem to give a damn about refugees the poor and downtrodden at home and abroad and their moral compass always starts from having a social conscience. The very opposite of what I see at Tory conferences in fact. Who can forget the cheering hordes when Peter Lilly brought out his little list
No, Corbyn Labour members give a damn about the class war and ranting at America and Israel, Tory members are more likely to be found at the WI or Rotary Club making a more practical difference
Do Conservative members get to vote on any policies at their conference ?
Might as well just as Farage to set all policies if they do.
All party conferences end up being echo chambers to a certain extent however the current Labour one is plumbing new depths .
The abolishing private schools is peak echo chamber , this policy is a gift to both the Tories and Lib Dems .
People like choices , parents even if they don’t currently have the money to send their children to private school might one day dream they might be able to do that.
This policy falls apart because it’s economically illiterate, those children currently in private schools will now have to be accommodated in the state sector . How many people will lose their jobs who currently work in private schools .
The policy smacks of a government telling parents we know better and restricting choice.
On top of this it smacks of hypocrisy , some Labour MPs have sent their children to private schools or they themselves went through that .
This policy is a vote loser and I can’t see anyway that this helps Labour in a GE.
I don’t agree with all the actions of Extinction Rebellion however I pay credit to all those young people who have stood up and tried to make politicians see sense and do more to combat climate change .
The reaction of the right towards Greta Thunberg has been a disgrace , truly reprehensible .
Who could criticise Greta? For years the only thing that could get the young off their backsides and campaigned has been to get bigger grants for themselves. This could be the start of the hippy's second coming. Lets hope so. They can move onto disarmament and cutting the military.
Roger, its just the ususal middle class lefty bollocks of saying how much better you are than everyone else and how you are ashamed of your society. The usual cowardly crap of nagging people you know cant be arsed to hit back,
Do something brave for a change and head of to China the worlds biggest polluter and tell them to stop. be doubly brave and do it in Xinjiang.
Er, no it's really not. The climate emergency is real and pointing that out isn't "lefty" or "middle class" or, indeed, "bollocks".
so why arent you in China? The UK impact on climate change even today is minimal.
Do I really have to explain to you why I have not moved to China?
TC were totally and utterly bust, drowning in debt and should have gone to the wall years ago.
What I want to know is, why did lenders keep on lending to them for so long?
Because they did secured lending on their planes, I would guess.
Do they have planes? Aren't they likely to be leased?
Boeing used to do 120% funding for new low cost carriers, where you could borrow £120m for every £100m you spent on new planes.
Really? Presumably they’d list the planes at £120m and insist you insured them for that amount?
Probably a nervous aircraft lease company or two around today as well, plenty of bills not paid and aircraft impounded by authorities all over the place.
I don't think you can insure planes for above replacement cost. (Or at least, not legally.) .
No, that sort of terrible behaviour is legally limited to exotic mortgage derivatives.
TC were totally and utterly bust, drowning in debt and should have gone to the wall years ago.
What I want to know is, why did lenders keep on lending to them for so long?
Because they did secured lending on their planes, I would guess.
Do they have planes? Aren't they likely to be leased?
Boeing used to do 120% funding for new low cost carriers, where you could borrow £120m for every £100m you spent on new planes.
Really? Presumably they’d list the planes at £120m and insist you insured them for that amount?
Probably a nervous aircraft lease company or two around today as well, plenty of bills not paid and aircraft impounded by authorities all over the place.
I don't think you can insure planes for above replacement cost. (Or at least, not legally.) .
No, that sort of terrible behaviour is legally limited to exotic mortgage derivatives.
Planes are insured on an Agreed Value basis - not tied to actual replacement cost
You know at the 2017 election the Tories tried to paint the Labour manifesto as barking mad but struggled because it had a cloak of well-costed common sense? Yeah, that’s not happening this time...
Why not? Are we to expect a Tory manifesto that is not barking mad to distinguish the Labour one?
As it happens I don't recall a great deal about the manifestos last time, though I did read all the major party ones (and the Greens). My enduring impression of the Labour one was it was a bit chaotic and busy, lots of smaller things muddling up the message. The LD was confused about whether it was a pitch to be opposition or government, and the Tory one was dementia tax dementia tax (actually that didn't stand out so much at the time, it seemed reasonable in theory, but it's all I can remember now).
Repetition, repetition, repetition. The Conservative manifesto contained the phrase strong and stable 15 times, along with four or five smooth and orderly Brexits.
I do remember that the Tory manifesto did not contain the word 'Corbyn', while the Labour one did name drop May several times.
Three times but she was, after all, the prime minister. That's what oppositions do. In 2010, the Tories mentioned Gordon Brown six times.
You know at the 2017 election the Tories tried to paint the Labour manifesto as barking mad but struggled because it had a cloak of well-costed common sense? Yeah, that’s not happening this time...
Why not? Are we to expect a Tory manifesto that is not barking mad to distinguish the Labour one?
As it happens I don't recall a great deal about the manifestos last time, though I did read all the major party ones (and the Greens). My enduring impression of the Labour one was it was a bit chaotic and busy, lots of smaller things muddling up the message. The LD was confused about whether it was a pitch to be opposition or government, and the Tory one was dementia tax dementia tax (actually that didn't stand out so much at the time, it seemed reasonable in theory, but it's all I can remember now).
Repetition, repetition, repetition. The Conservative manifesto contained the phrase strong and stable 15 times, along with four or five smooth and orderly Brexits.
I do remember that the Tory manifesto did not contain the word 'Corbyn', while the Labour one did name drop May several times.
That seems strange (although I'm assuming your right) because during the campaign May would say Corbyn's name quite often but I don't think Corbyn mentioned May much, if at all....
So over 3 years after the referendum and barely 5 weeks before Britain faces a disorderly withdrawal from the EU Labour have decided that they won’t decide whether they are in favour of Leave or Remain until later.
Is that right?
I suppose after 31 October - if Boris gets his way - it won’t matter anyway. Corbyn won’t campaign to Rejoin. The Lib Dems probably will. But that will be a very long uphill battle and the EU probably won’t want us back for a very long time, if ever.
I think today's vote as I understand it is worse than Corbyn's position just last week. If my understanding is correct, if there is a Labour deal , it will be on the ballot paper with Remain as the other option. So far so good. However, until this vote members would be free to vote [ or campaign ] which way they preferred. But now , I believe, there will be a Party line. So this is much worse.
The motion (or composite I guess) that was defeated was about there being a party line. Thanks to the votes today people will be free to vote and campaign on whatever side of the referendum they want.
So for example Caroline Flint can campaign for the Brexit deal and Clive Lewis can campaign for the remain deal.
If composite 13 had passed I think there would be much less chance of a referendum happening, delighted it was rejected. I say this as someone who signed the 2nd referendum petition and someone who has always wanted one (been prepared not to have one previously but wanted it still)
There will be a party line. It's just that it will be determined at a special conference shortly before any referendum
I don’t agree with all the actions of Extinction Rebellion however I pay credit to all those young people who have stood up and tried to make politicians see sense and do more to combat climate change .
The reaction of the right towards Greta Thunberg has been a disgrace , truly reprehensible .
Who could criticise Greta? For years the only thing that could get the young off their backsides and campaigned has been to get bigger grants for themselves. This could be the start of the hippy's second coming. Lets hope so. They can move onto disarmament and cutting the military.
Roger, its just the ususal middle class lefty bollocks of saying how much better you are than everyone else and how you are ashamed of your society. The usual cowardly crap of nagging people you know cant be arsed to hit back,
Do something brave for a change and head of to China the worlds biggest polluter and tell them to stop. be doubly brave and do it in Xinjiang.
Er, no it's really not. The climate emergency is real and pointing that out isn't "lefty" or "middle class" or, indeed, "bollocks".
so why arent you in China? The UK impact on climate change even today is minimal.
Do I really have to explain to you why I have not moved to China?
You cant be bothered protesting at he biggest source of global pollution ?
Ok I will explain why I have not moved to China.
1. I don't speak Chinese, I am not a Chinese citizen, and the Chinese government is a brutal dictatorship, so I don't think it would be a very effective protest. 2. I live in this country with my family and I go to work so my kids can eat. I don't think going to China to end up in jail would be a very responsible thing to do, as a parent. 3. Travelling to China would be quite carbon intensive, so would be counterproductive. 4. China is actually doing quite a lot to decarbonise its economy, I believe, and unlike Trump they do not claim that climate change is a hoax, so I am not sure they are the villain of this piece. 5. If we measure our carbon footprint based on consumption rather than production then the West is a far bigger cause of the problem than China, and if we address the carbon impact of our lifestyle then we can reduce emissions in China without me having to actually travel there.
All party conferences end up being echo chambers to a certain extent however the current Labour one is plumbing new depths .
The abolishing private schools is peak echo chamber , this policy is a gift to both the Tories and Lib Dems .
People like choices , parents even if they don’t currently have the money to send their children to private school might one day dream they might be able to do that.
This policy falls apart because it’s economically illiterate, those children currently in private schools will now have to be accommodated in the state sector . How many people will lose their jobs who currently work in private schools .
The policy smacks of a government telling parents we know better and restricting choice.
On top of this it smacks of hypocrisy , some Labour MPs have sent their children to private schools or they themselves went through that .
This policy is a vote loser and I can’t see anyway that this helps Labour in a GE.
As I've said more than once, I think the policy is politically stupid but based on reaction here and in the press, I'm wondering if there is not an element of "dead cat" about it, and the Conservatives will spend so much time preaching to the choir about its iniquity that they will forget to say anything that might win votes.
The main problem has been that Leave won by a very small margin, but it's most vociferous supporters subsequently behaved if they won with 92% of the vote, rather than the more measly 52% . If they had been more magnanimous in victory it would have been a better outcome
des need to give a little and work out something in the middle, dealing with each other in good faith.
"Magnanimous in defeat"? What an absurd comment that can only come from a Leaver who has belatedly seen his preferred outcome slip away. It has nothing to do with the dynamics of 2016.
The EEA Leavers skulked behind the anti-immigration mob, hoping to swoop in afterwards to get what they wanted by positioning themselves in the fulcrum. What they hadn't appreciated was that the manner of victory was as important as the victory itself, and a Brexit that did not deal with immigration concerns was an entirely invalid Brexit.
Of course, a Brexit that deals with immigration concerns leads us to the wretched point we now are at. But that was the inevitable consequence of falling in behind xenophobic lies.
er.
Your attitudes betray your not-very-convincing act. You'd do better being honest about your (pretty obvious) position. You discredit it with your deceit.
Yes, those terrible attitudes about wanting compromise and ownership from all involved! I must be one of the enemy!
Everything not very mysteriously comes back to an EEA Leave position, a position occupied by no one except a few Leavers who leeched off the anti-immigration sentiment that won the referendum and constantly sought to insert their preferred policy position on a nation, almost none of whose citizens actually wanted it.
Except I also backed CU membership, which is completely contrary to the EEA Leavers, who wanted lots of bilateral trade deals. EEA + CU is the closest we get to Remain while respecting democracy.
It doesn't respect democracy at all. The referendum was fought and won on an anti-immigration prospectus. To fail to honour that is to fail to honour the vote.
It's just what you want.
People can make whatever arguments they want for whatever side. The question asked whether we should leave the EU. SM + CU does that. It was my preferred option right after and we could have got it if Remainers had backed it. But they didn't so the best option now seems to be May's deal with a fudge on the backstop.
It reminded me of the chaotic Democratic convention of 1972 when McGovern finally spoke after midnight or Labour conferences under Foot when Militant were in full sway both of which led to heavy defeats
This week Labour has almost certainly ensured the Tories win a majority at the next general election and that, quite possibly, the LibDems come second in the popular vote.
Looks that way. This week has been best conference the LibDems have had in years.
There are some things I like about the Labour Party having watched their conference. They seem to give a damn about refugees the poor and downtrodden at home and abroad and their moral compass always starts from having a social conscience. The very opposite of what I see at Tory conferences in fact. Who can forget the cheering hordes when Peter Lilly brought out his little list
No, Corbyn Labour members give a damn about the class war and ranting at America and Israel, Tory members are more likely to be found at the WI or Rotary Club making a more practical difference
Do Conservative members get to vote on any policies at their conference ?
They get to attend policy forums in their constituencies as I have
All party conferences end up being echo chambers to a certain extent however the current Labour one is plumbing new depths .
The abolishing private schools is peak echo chamber , this policy is a gift to both the Tories and Lib Dems .
People like choices , parents even if they don’t currently have the money to send their children to private school might one day dream they might be able to do that.
This policy falls apart because it’s economically illiterate, those children currently in private schools will now have to be accommodated in the state sector . How many people will lose their jobs who currently work in private schools .
The policy smacks of a government telling parents we know better and restricting choice.
On top of this it smacks of hypocrisy , some Labour MPs have sent their children to private schools or they themselves went through that .
This policy is a vote loser and I can’t see anyway that this helps Labour in a GE.
I can see removing charitable status, or charging VAT on school fees or one of a number of other things happening. I don't think abolishing private schools is going to be in the next manifesto.
So over 3 years after the referendum and barely 5 weeks before Britain faces a disorderly withdrawal from the EU Labour have decided that they won’t decide whether they are in favour of Leave or Remain until later.
Is that right?
I suppose after 31 October - if Boris gets his way - it won’t matter anyway. Corbyn won’t campaign to Rejoin. The Lib Dems probably will. But that will be a very long uphill battle and the EU probably won’t want us back for a very long time, if ever.
I think today's vote as I understand it is worse than Corbyn's position just last week. If my understanding is correct, if there is a Labour deal , it will be on the ballot paper with Remain as the other option. So far so good. However, until this vote members would be free to vote [ or campaign ] which way they preferred. But now , I believe, there will be a Party line. So this is much worse.
The motion (or composite I guess) that was defeated was about there being a party line. Thanks to the votes today people will be free to vote and campaign on whatever side of the referendum they want.
So for example Caroline Flint can campaign for the Brexit deal and Clive Lewis can campaign for the remain deal.
If composite 13 had passed I think there would be much less chance of a referendum happening, delighted it was rejected. I say this as someone who signed the 2nd referendum petition and someone who has always wanted one (been prepared not to have one previously but wanted it still)
I don't see that. You'll have the same problem Cameron had. Half the party campaigned one way the other half the other. It'll end with Caroline Flint and others holding hands with Farage Raab on a Thames barge. It's a horrible look for a radical left party.
There are some things I like about the Labour Party having watched their conference. They seem to give a damn about refugees the poor and downtrodden at home and abroad and their moral compass always starts from having a social conscience. The very opposite of what I see at Tory conferences in fact. Who can forget the cheering hordes when Peter Lilly brought out his little list
No, Corbyn Labour members give a damn about the class war and ranting at America and Israel, Tory members are more likely to be found at the WI or Rotary Club making a more practical difference
Do Conservative members get to vote on any policies at their conference ?
Might as well just as Farage to set all policies if they do.
To be fair the Brexit Party only has one policy at the moment. To bring , Marxist communists and the far right , together is some achievement.
All party conferences end up being echo chambers to a certain extent however the current Labour one is plumbing new depths .
The abolishing private schools is peak echo chamber , this policy is a gift to both the Tories and Lib Dems .
People like choices , parents even if they don’t currently have the money to send their children to private school might one day dream they might be able to do that.
This policy falls apart because it’s economically illiterate, those children currently in private schools will now have to be accommodated in the state sector . How many people will lose their jobs who currently work in private schools .
The policy smacks of a government telling parents we know better and restricting choice.
On top of this it smacks of hypocrisy , some Labour MPs have sent their children to private schools or they themselves went through that .
This policy is a vote loser and I can’t see anyway that this helps Labour in a GE.
I can see removing charitable status, or charging VAT on school fees or one of a number of other things happening. I don't think abolishing private schools is going to be in the next manifesto.
The Labour conference have just voted abolishing private schools to be official Labour Party policy
I don’t agree with all the actions of Extinction Rebellion however I pay credit to all those young people who have stood up and tried to make politicians see sense and do more to combat climate change .
The reaction of the right towards Greta Thunberg has been a disgrace , truly reprehensible .
Who could criticise Greta? For years the oe military.
Roger, its just the ususal middle class lefty bollocksarsed to hit back,
Do something brave for a change and head of to China the worlds biggest polluter and tell them to stop. be doubly brave and do it in Xinjiang.
Er, no it's really not. The climate emergency is real and pointing that out isn't "lefty" or "middle class" or, indeed, "bollocks".
so why arent you in China? The UK impact on climate change even today is minimal.
Do I really have to explain to you why I have not moved to China?
You cant be bothered protesting at he biggest source of global pollution ?
Ok I will explain why I have not moved to China.
1. I don't speak Chinese, I am not a Chinese citizen, and the Chinese government is a brutal dictatorship, so I don't think it would be a very effective protest. 2. I live in this country with my family and I go to work so my kids can eat. I don't think going to China to end up in jail would be a very responsible thing to do, as a parent. 3. Travelling to China would be quite carbon intensive, so would be counterproductive. 4. China is actually doing quite a lot to decarbonise its economy, I believe, and unlike Trump they do not claim that climate change is a hoax, so I am not sure they are the villain of this piece. 5. If we measure our carbon footprint based on consumption rather than production then the West is a far bigger cause of the problem than China, and if we address the carbon impact of our lifestyle then we can reduce emissions in China without me having to actually travel there.
Hopefully that will make things clear for you.
The West carbon output even including the USA which is by far the largest western polluter come nwhere near Chinas output. UK consumption per population doesnt even make the top 10 globally and is dropping faster than Chinas.
All party conferences end up being echo chambers to a certain extent however the current Labour one is plumbing new depths .
The abolishing private schools is peak echo chamber , this policy is a gift to both the Tories and Lib Dems .
People like choices , parents even if they don’t currently have the money to send their children to private school might one day dream they might be able to do that.
This policy falls apart because it’s economically illiterate, those children currently in private schools will now have to be accommodated in the state sector . How many people will lose their jobs who currently work in private schools .
The policy smacks of a government telling parents we know better and restricting choice.
On top of this it smacks of hypocrisy , some Labour MPs have sent their children to private schools or they themselves went through that .
This policy is a vote loser and I can’t see anyway that this helps Labour in a GE.
I can see removing charitable status, or charging VAT on school fees or one of a number of other things happening. I don't think abolishing private schools is going to be in the next manifesto.
The Labour conference have just voted abolishing private schools to be official Labour Party policy
While I rarely agree with @charles his view that state schools should be good enough for people to not need private ones. Have always believed that but whilst people with influence don’t experience the problems of the the state system little will change.
So over 3 years after the referendum and barely 5 weeks before Britain faces a disorderly withdrawal from the EU Labour have decided that they won’t decide whether they are in favour of Leave or Remain until later.
Is that right?
I suppose after 31 October - if Boris gets his way - it won’t matter anyway. Corbyn won’t campaign to Rejoin. The Lib Dems probably will. But that will be a very long uphill battle and the EU probably won’t want us back for a very long time, if ever.
I think today's vote as I understand it is worse than Corbyn's position just last week. If my understanding is correct, if there is a Labour deal , it will be on the ballot paper with Remain as the other option. So far so good. However, until this vote members would be free to vote [ or campaign ] which way they preferred. But now , I believe, there will be a Party line. So this is much worse.
The motion (or composite I guess) that was defeated was about there being a party line. Thanks to the votes today people will be free to vote and campaign on whatever side of the referendum they want.
So for example Caroline Flint can campaign for the Brexit deal and Clive Lewis can campaign for the remain deal.
If composite 13 had passed I think there would be much less chance of a referendum happening, delighted it was rejected. I say this as someone who signed the 2nd referendum petition and someone who has always wanted one (been prepared not to have one previously but wanted it still)
There will be a party line. It's just that it will be determined at a special conference shortly before any referendum
I can't see there being a party line in the way the motion today would have done, at most the conference will ask/demand/tell Corbyn to campaign for remain or it will let him remain neutral whilst leaving others to campaign on different sides. I think at this point even 2nd referendum supporters (me) in the party are started to get pissed off with those pushing an ever more extreme remain line.
All party conferences end up being echo chambers to a certain extent however the current Labour one is plumbing new depths .
The abolishing private schools is peak echo chamber , this policy is a gift to both the Tories and Lib Dems .
People like choices , parents even if they don’t currently have the money to send their children to private school might one day dream they might be able to do that.
This policy falls apart because it’s economically illiterate, those children currently in private schools will now have to be accommodated in the state sector . How many people will lose their jobs who currently work in private schools .
The policy smacks of a government telling parents we know better and restricting choice.
On top of this it smacks of hypocrisy , some Labour MPs have sent their children to private schools or they themselves went through that .
This policy is a vote loser and I can’t see anyway that this helps Labour in a GE.
I can see removing charitable status, or charging VAT on school fees or one of a number of other things happening. I don't think abolishing private schools is going to be in the next manifesto.
It probably wont be, but the attack line and public perception that Labour want to ban private schools will be there.
Removing charitable status could be marginally popular, banning private schools or stealing their assets is hugely unpopular. How many people, who are not already voting Labour, will be impressed? It is probably losing 10 votes for every one it brings in. Why on earth have such a policy making headlines on one of the few days when Labour have guaranteed control of the agenda?
It is simply bonkers whatever the objective, and could only happen in an echo chamber.
There are some things I like about the Labour Party having watched their conference. They seem to give a damn about refugees the poor and downtrodden at home and abroad and their moral compass always starts from having a social conscience. The very opposite of what I see at Tory conferences in fact. Who can forget the cheering hordes when Peter Lilly brought out his little list
No, Corbyn Labour members give a damn about the class war and ranting at America and Israel, Tory members are more likely to be found at the WI or Rotary Club making a more practical difference
Do Conservative members get to vote on any policies at their conference ?
Might as well just as Farage to set all policies if they do.
To be fair the Brexit Party only has one policy at the moment. To bring , Marxist communists and the far right , together is some achievement.
Nigel has lots of policies but you can only be a candidate if you agree with nigel
Comments
My uppermost thought is that she's setting herself up for a fall. I hope she has strong support around her if it does happen. I fear many of those who are currently using her (*) will disappear into the woodwork.
(*) And to be fair, she is using them.
Snigger
https://order-order.com/2019/09/23/labours-abolish-eton-policy-overwhelmingly-unpopular-public/
oh wait, you don't actually want to sully yourselves with real power do you?
Recently I've been worried about a possible strike being called in my sector. I don't want to cross a picket line, but I will because I'm against it. Yet I would strike in other circumstances.
Strikes are not good or bad per se, they just are.
This is supposed to be a democratic party ready for power?
ha, riiiight
https://www.dailymail.co.uk/news/article-7493433/Jeremy-Corbyn-ordered-Remain-senior-Labour-figures.html
Lots of stress in my life right now, but so nice of Labour to make me laugh.
Take your time
He has no truck with the scientific consensus.
If my understanding is correct, if there is a Labour deal , it will be on the ballot paper with Remain as the other option. So far so good. However, until this vote members would be free to vote [ or campaign ] which way they preferred. But now , I believe, there will be a Party line. So this is much worse.
https://order-order.com/2019/09/23/labours-abolish-eton-policy-overwhelmingly-unpopular-public/
http://hurryupharry.org/2019/09/22/the-labour-party-conference-in-tweets/
Below the line is a comment I might just have to borrow
"It’s only a shame Labour didn’t ban private education decades ago, then Jeremy Corbyn, Seumas Milne, Andrew Murray ( and others) might have found themselves employed, not in politics ,but at Tescos ( If they would have them)"
Both Airbus and Boeing have provided a metric fuck tonne of vendor financing to start-up airlines. Some people managed to start with airlines with $1bn of airplanes with just a few million dollars down, by making use of the generous loans guaranteed by the manufacturers*.
From Boeing's (or Airbus's) point of view, you'd make it up on maintenance and future plane sales. Not only that, but the loans would be contingent on the operator not buying any planes from your competitor.
* This is very similar to the mobile phone operator world, where Ericsson, Nokia and the like, would often finance the vast bulk of a startup company's costs.
As it happens I don't recall a great deal about the manifestos last time, though I did read all the major party ones (and the Greens). My enduring impression of the Labour one was it was a bit chaotic and busy, lots of smaller things muddling up the message. The LD was confused about whether it was a pitch to be opposition or government, and the Tory one was dementia tax dementia tax (actually that didn't stand out so much at the time, it seemed reasonable in theory, but it's all I can remember now).
“The policy of Her Majesty’s Opposition is to have its cake and indeed to eat it”.
So not replacement cost, no.
Do something brave for a change and head off to China the worlds biggest polluter and tell them to stop. be doubly brave and do it in Xinjiang.
You know the kind of look you see on someone's face when they see some rotten bananas, or maybe a particularly unpleasant piece of road kill in the gutter?
Alternatively, the parties are doing a far better job than it appears in still being relatively broad and keepign people on board. Or they are just that scared of going solo.
And if someone is 'Party X for life' that is cult like behaviour.
His main objection, I think, is that Lefties he hates are for it, so he’s against it.
- Do the Unions get a number of delegates who agree to vote in predetermined fashion ?
- Do the CLP delegates have to vote in a way instructed by their individual CLP ?
- If the vote is done on a show of hands, how does anyone know how their delegates voted ?
On topic, is there any reliable data on how much tactical voting actually happens Vs how much people say they'll do it? I'd guess polling overrepresents GE VI tac voters by three or four times - as OGH identifies, more panellists are political junkies, and the 'if' question to safe seat voters tempts them to say they would switch as a zero-cost signal
So for example Caroline Flint can campaign for the Brexit deal and Clive Lewis can campaign for the remain deal.
If composite 13 had passed I think there would be much less chance of a referendum happening, delighted it was rejected. I say this as someone who signed the 2nd referendum petition and someone who has always wanted one (been prepared not to have one previously but wanted it still)
The abolishing private schools is peak echo chamber , this policy is a gift to both the Tories and Lib Dems .
People like choices , parents even if they don’t currently have the money to send their children to private school might one day dream they might be able to do that.
This policy falls apart because it’s economically illiterate, those children currently in private schools will now have to be accommodated in the state sector . How many people will lose their jobs who currently work in private schools .
The policy smacks of a government telling parents we know better and restricting choice.
On top of this it smacks of hypocrisy , some Labour MPs have sent their children to private schools or they themselves went through that .
This policy is a vote loser and I can’t see anyway that this helps Labour in a GE.
That seems strange (although I'm assuming your right) because during the campaign May would say Corbyn's name quite often but I don't think Corbyn mentioned May much, if at all....
1. I don't speak Chinese, I am not a Chinese citizen, and the Chinese government is a brutal dictatorship, so I don't think it would be a very effective protest.
2. I live in this country with my family and I go to work so my kids can eat. I don't think going to China to end up in jail would be a very responsible thing to do, as a parent.
3. Travelling to China would be quite carbon intensive, so would be counterproductive.
4. China is actually doing quite a lot to decarbonise its economy, I believe, and unlike Trump they do not claim that climate change is a hoax, so I am not sure they are the villain of this piece.
5. If we measure our carbon footprint based on consumption rather than production then the West is a far bigger cause of the problem than China, and if we address the carbon impact of our lifestyle then we can reduce emissions in China without me having to actually travel there.
Hopefully that will make things clear for you.
https://twitter.com/SamCoatesSky/status/1176182135629275137
Nothing to see here...
no sympathy
To bring , Marxist communists and the far right , together is some achievement.
I am fed up with hearing how awful it is and how intolerable it is. But they are still willing to stand and ask people to vote Corbyn for PM.
Now that is shameful.
Removing charitable status could be marginally popular, banning private schools or stealing their assets is hugely unpopular. How many people, who are not already voting Labour, will be impressed? It is probably losing 10 votes for every one it brings in. Why on earth have such a policy making headlines on one of the few days when Labour have guaranteed control of the agenda?
It is simply bonkers whatever the objective, and could only happen in an echo chamber.
Nigel has lots of policies but you can only be a candidate if you agree with nigel