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  • Any song with God in is a poor choice. Jerusalem is about whether the Christ child visited England with his uncle, and 'building Jerusalem' here, it's about the glorification of Christianity and given the status of Jerusalem as the centre of religious strife and war in the middle east it's not a great ditty for the minority religions of the UK.

    I'e always taken 'build Jerusalem' as a metaphor for building Heaven. I.e. to make the country as Heaven would be.

    It's not saying we should build a copy of the Wailing Wall outside the Tower of London ...;)

    Besides, the best version of the song was done by the KLF:
    https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=O1C5V9i6lCE


  • Any song with God in is a poor choice. Jerusalem is about whether the Christ child visited England with his uncle, and 'building Jerusalem' here, it's about the glorification of Christianity and given the status of Jerusalem as the centre of religious strife and war in the middle east it's not a great ditty for the minority religions of the UK.

    I thought it was about a sheep.
  • Is Labour really proposing to actually abolish private schools, nationalise them or just make life very hard for them? It's not clear.

    Surely the consequences of this policy must have a lot of negative knock-on effects. Seems daft to me

    I can;t afford to buy a brand new NIssan, only a richer few can, so will Labour be campaigning to close the factory down in Sunderland?

    Surely this bunch cannot win

    The policy is confused, but I think the aim is to get rid of them altogether.

    I presume that Conservatives here are comfortable with the fact that a local private secondary school here has been allowed to convert to free school status, thus leaving bills to be paid for by taxpayers instead of parents, but leaving the school free to continue to pick and choose those it admits and solicit additional "voluntary" donations from well-heeled parents.

    The bill to the taxpayer would of course be much bigger if Labour integrated the entire private school system into the state sector, at a reported cost of about £3.5 billion. So Labour's policy is quite similar to the free school conversion that the Conservatives were so keen to encourage here, except that the process is forced and the private schools would lose control of their admissions.
  • MarqueeMarkMarqueeMark Posts: 47,251

    Unison's Brexit break with Corbyn is huge. It clears the way for breaks on other issues and may mean it playing a much bigger role in the next leadership election. Pidcock - who I have been talking about on here for a while as the chosen Corbyn constinuity candidate - is close to Unite. But Unison now has more members than Champagne Len's crew. It may be looking closely at who is close to Unison as a result. One name stands out: Angela Rayner.

    https://www.unison.org.uk/news/article/2017/02/from-a-council-estate-to-the-houses-of-parliament/

    If she holds her seat....

    LibDems have held Yardley in the not too dim-and-distant. And recent polls have them winning it again.
  • OldKingColeOldKingCole Posts: 29,272
    Hen Wlad Fy Nhadau (Land of my Fathers) is a rousing National Anthem, as is the Marsellaise. The Star Spangled Banner' isn't bad, either, nor the new Aussie one. "God defend New Zealand' always seems a bit naff, although having one English verse and one Maori one is novel.
  • dyedwooliedyedwoolie Posts: 7,786

    Any song with God in is a poor choice. Jerusalem is about whether the Christ child visited England with his uncle, and 'building Jerusalem' here, it's about the glorification of Christianity and given the status of Jerusalem as the centre of religious strife and war in the middle east it's not a great ditty for the minority religions of the UK.

    I'e always taken 'build Jerusalem' as a metaphor for building Heaven. I.e. to make the country as Heaven would be.

    It's not saying we should build a copy of the Wailing Wall outside the Tower of London ...;)

    Besides, the best version of the song was done by the KLF:
    https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=O1C5V9i6lCE
    Well it is, but because Jerusalem is heaven on earth etc, Jerusalem as a concept. The different Abrahamic religions have differing versions of that concept and clearly the name will cause ructions due to the political situation. Plus it's two fingers to atheists and non abrahamic types too. A CofE hymn just isn't suitable
  • nichomarnichomar Posts: 7,483



    Any song with God in is a poor choice. Jerusalem is about whether the Christ child visited England with his uncle, and 'building Jerusalem' here, it's about the glorification of Christianity and given the status of Jerusalem as the centre of religious strife and war in the middle east it's not a great ditty for the minority religions of the UK.

    I thought it was about a sheep.
    It’s rather good even if it is a socialist hymn seeking to replace the dark satanic hills with the new Jerusalem.
  • MattWMattW Posts: 15,127

    Unison's Brexit break with Corbyn is huge. It clears the way for breaks on other issues and may mean it playing a much bigger role in the next leadership election. Pidcock - who I have been talking about on here for a while as the chosen Corbyn constinuity candidate - is close to Unite. But Unison now has more members than Champagne Len's crew. It may be looking closely at who is close to Unison as a result. One name stands out: Angela Rayner.

    https://www.unison.org.uk/news/article/2017/02/from-a-council-estate-to-the-houses-of-parliament/

    We're going on a pillock-hunt
    We're going to catch a big one...

    All we need now are Lammy and Abbott ... and all the rest.
  • nichomarnichomar Posts: 7,483

    Hen Wlad Fy Nhadau (Land of my Fathers) is a rousing National Anthem, as is the Marsellaise. The Star Spangled Banner' isn't bad, either, nor the new Aussie one. "God defend New Zealand' always seems a bit naff, although having one English verse and one Maori one is novel.

    Would be funny to have sweet chariot popular at some sporting events but obviously without the hand motions.
  • nichomar said:



    Any song with God in is a poor choice. Jerusalem is about whether the Christ child visited England with his uncle, and 'building Jerusalem' here, it's about the glorification of Christianity and given the status of Jerusalem as the centre of religious strife and war in the middle east it's not a great ditty for the minority religions of the UK.

    I thought it was about a sheep.
    It’s rather good even if it is a socialist hymn seeking to replace the dark satanic hills with the new Jerusalem.
    Yes I always thought it was a nice song and had elements to appeal to Left and Right alike. It is also a lovely rousing tune. As an atheist the God references don't bother me, but perhaps some others would be offended.
  • Scott_P said:

    I am in my 40s and we learnt it at school - a comprehensive. Isn’t it something everyone learns?

    I was taught it at primary school. In Scotland.

    And it really, really irritates me that no England team in any sport appears to know the words, despite them being the name of the song.

    God Save THE Queen.

    How hard is that?
    It's going to be really difficult to get it right when it stops being God Save the Queen.
    It would be a good time to change it. I wonder what unsuitable jingle would replace it?
    Mr Blobby.

  • There's a verse which is almost never sung today, of course, which could have been anathema at your school:
    Lord, grant that Marshall Wade
    May, by Thy mighty aid,
    Victory bring.
    May he sedition hush,
    And like a torrent rush,
    Rebellious Scots to crush.
    God save the Queen

    Since Wade is probably most famous for his roads nowadays, simply change it:
    Lord, grant that Marshall Wade
    May, by Thy mighty aid,
    Transport bring.
    May his horse's hush,
    And bridge a torrent's rush,
    Rebellious stones to crush.
    God save the roads!
  • dyedwooliedyedwoolie Posts: 7,786
    nichomar said:

    Hen Wlad Fy Nhadau (Land of my Fathers) is a rousing National Anthem, as is the Marsellaise. The Star Spangled Banner' isn't bad, either, nor the new Aussie one. "God defend New Zealand' always seems a bit naff, although having one English verse and one Maori one is novel.

    Would be funny to have sweet chariot popular at some sporting events but obviously without the hand motions.
    I'm not sure black spiritual songs sung during slavery are meant to be funny
  • TGOHFTGOHF Posts: 21,633
    Surely Greta whatsherface has to take the share of the blame for Thomas Cook collapsing - your flights to Malaga will cause the world to end etc etc..
  • Unison's Brexit break with Corbyn is huge. It clears the way for breaks on other issues and may mean it playing a much bigger role in the next leadership election. Pidcock - who I have been talking about on here for a while as the chosen Corbyn constinuity candidate - is close to Unite. But Unison now has more members than Champagne Len's crew. It may be looking closely at who is close to Unison as a result. One name stands out: Angela Rayner.

    https://www.unison.org.uk/news/article/2017/02/from-a-council-estate-to-the-houses-of-parliament/

    If she holds her seat....

    LibDems have held Yardley in the not too dim-and-distant. And recent polls have them winning it again.

    You're thinking of Jess Phillips.

  • Unison's Brexit break with Corbyn is huge. It clears the way for breaks on other issues and may mean it playing a much bigger role in the next leadership election. Pidcock - who I have been talking about on here for a while as the chosen Corbyn constinuity candidate - is close to Unite. But Unison now has more members than Champagne Len's crew. It may be looking closely at who is close to Unison as a result. One name stands out: Angela Rayner.

    https://www.unison.org.uk/news/article/2017/02/from-a-council-estate-to-the-houses-of-parliament/

    If she holds her seat....

    LibDems have held Yardley in the not too dim-and-distant. And recent polls have them winning it again.
    ¿Que? You're thinking of Jess Phillips. Angela Rayner is MP for Ashton-under-Lyne.
  • dyedwooliedyedwoolie Posts: 7,786
    Watching the news coverage of the Emmy's confirms everything that is disgusting, elitist and repugnant about the luvvie industry


  • LibDems have held Yardley in the not too dim-and-distant. And recent polls have them winning it again.

    No they don't. Although if Phillips defected and was allowed to stand for the Libs they would.
  • Hen Wlad Fy Nhadau (Land of my Fathers) is a rousing National Anthem, as is the Marsellaise. The Star Spangled Banner' isn't bad, either, nor the new Aussie one. "God defend New Zealand' always seems a bit naff, although having one English verse and one Maori one is novel.

    the French National Anthem is wonderfully rousing in terms of the tune and the impact it can have when you hear it - until you understand the lyrics

    Arise children of the fatherland
    The day of glory has arrived
    Against us tyranny's
    Bloody standard is raised
    Listen to the sound in the fields
    The howling of these fearsome soldiers
    They are coming into our midst
    To cut the throats of your sons and consorts

    To arms citizens Form your battalions
    March, march
    Let impure blood
    Water our furrows

    What do they want this horde of slaves
    Of traitors and conspiratorial kings?
    For whom these vile chains
    These long-prepared irons?
    Frenchmen, for us, ah! What outrage
    What methods must be taken?
    It is us they dare plan
    To return to the old slavery!

    What! These foreign cohorts!
    They would make laws in our courts!
    What! These mercenary phalanxes
    Would cut down our warrior sons
    Good Lord! By chained hands
    Our brow would yield under the yoke
    The vile despots would have themselves be
    The masters of destiny

    Tremble, tyrants and traitors
    The shame of all good men
    Tremble! Your parricidal schemes
    Will receive their just reward
    Against you we are all soldiers
    If they fall, our young heros
    France will bear new ones
    Ready to join the fight against you

    Frenchmen, as magnanimous warriors
    Bear or hold back your blows
    Spare these sad victims
    That they regret taking up arms against us
    But not these bloody despots
    These accomplices of Bouillé
    All these tigers who pitilessly
    Ripped out their mothers' wombs

    We too shall enlist
    When our elders' time has come
    To add to the list of deeds
    Inscribed upon their tombs
    We are much less jealous of surviving them
    Than of sharing their coffins
    We shall have the sublime pride
    Of avenging or joining them

    Drive on sacred patriotism
    Support our avenging arms
    Liberty, cherished liberty
    Join the struggle with your defenders
    Under our flags, let victory
    Hurry to your manly tone
    So that in death your enemies
    See your triumph and our glory!

    Let us be grateful we don't get to hear all the verses!
  • RogerRoger Posts: 17,607
    edited September 2019
    Big Labour news! Unison supports Remain. Just makes Corbyn seem more impotent.
  • Dura_Ace said:

    Scott_P said:

    I am in my 40s and we learnt it at school - a comprehensive. Isn’t it something everyone learns?

    I was taught it at primary school. In Scotland.

    And it really, really irritates me that no England team in any sport appears to know the words, despite them being the name of the song.

    God Save THE Queen.

    How hard is that?
    It's going to be really difficult to get it right when it stops being God Save the Queen.
    It would be a good time to change it. I wonder what unsuitable jingle would replace it?
    Heartland by The The
    Definitely an unsuitable jingle :D

    Given the state of Westminster these days, what about "Dirty Old Town" by The Pogues?

    :D:D
  • Roger said:

    Big Labour news! Unison supports Remain. Just makes Corbyn seem more impotent.

    I am sure Diane Abbott can pop up to confirm that she knows he isn't.....
  • nichomarnichomar Posts: 7,483
    Best to just go the Spanish was and have a nice tune with no official words although I have heard two different versions sung quietly at the same event.
  • Hen Wlad Fy Nhadau (Land of my Fathers) is a rousing National Anthem, as is the Marsellaise. The Star Spangled Banner' isn't bad, either, nor the new Aussie one. "God defend New Zealand' always seems a bit naff, although having one English verse and one Maori one is novel.

    the French National Anthem is wonderfully rousing in terms of the tune and the impact it can have when you hear it - until you understand the lyrics

    [large French rant snipped!]

    Let us be grateful we don't get to hear all the verses!
    You mean there is more? Do they take an afternoon off to sing it?
  • OldKingColeOldKingCole Posts: 29,272

    Hen Wlad Fy Nhadau (Land of my Fathers) is a rousing National Anthem, as is the Marsellaise. The Star Spangled Banner' isn't bad, either, nor the new Aussie one. "God defend New Zealand' always seems a bit naff, although having one English verse and one Maori one is novel.

    the French National Anthem is wonderfully rousing in terms of the tune and the impact it can have when you hear it - until you understand the lyrics

    Arise children of the fatherland
    The day of glory has arrived
    Against us tyranny's
    Bloody standard is raised
    Listen to the sound in the fields
    The howling of these fearsome soldiers
    They are coming into our midst
    To cut the throats of your sons and consorts

    To arms citizens Form your battalions
    March, march
    Let impure blood
    Water our furrows

    What do they want this horde of slaves
    Of traitors and conspiratorial kings?
    For whom these vile chains
    These long-prepared irons?
    Frenchmen, for us, ah! What outrage
    What methods must be taken?
    It is us they dare plan
    To return to the old slavery!

    What! These foreign cohorts!
    They would make laws in our courts!
    What! These mercenary phalanxes
    Would cut down our warrior sons
    Good Lord! By chained hands
    Our brow would yield under the yoke
    The vile despots would have themselves be
    The masters of destiny

    Tremble, tyrants and traitors
    The shame of all good men
    Tremble! Your parricidal schemes
    Will receive their just reward
    Against you we are all soldiers
    If they fall, our young heros
    France will bear new ones
    Ready to join the fight against you

    Frenchmen, as magnanimous warriors
    Bear or hold back your blows
    Spare these sad victims
    That they regret taking up arms against us
    But not these bloody despots
    These accomplices of Bouillé
    All these tigers who pitilessly
    Ripped out their mothers' wombs

    We too shall enlist
    When our elders' time has come
    To add to the list of deeds
    Inscribed upon their tombs
    We are much less jealous of surviving them
    Than of sharing their coffins
    We shall have the sublime pride
    Of avenging or joining them

    Drive on sacred patriotism
    Support our avenging arms
    Liberty, cherished liberty
    Join the struggle with your defenders
    Under our flags, let victory
    Hurry to your manly tone
    So that in death your enemies
    See your triumph and our glory!

    Let us be grateful we don't get to hear all the verses!
    Was it the Brazilian or the Costa Rican anthem which seemed to go on for ever at the Olympics? The Sri Lankan one seemed to go on a bit at the World Cup, if I recall correctly.
  • dyedwooliedyedwoolie Posts: 7,786
    TGOHF said:

    Surely Greta whatsherface has to take the share of the blame for Thomas Cook collapsing - your flights to Malaga will cause the world to end etc etc..

    It's very important that the working class suffer and have a less comfortable lifestyle. Its white privilege innit
  • MarqueeMarkMarqueeMark Posts: 47,251
    edited September 2019



    LibDems have held Yardley in the not too dim-and-distant. And recent polls have them winning it again.

    No they don't. Although if Phillips defected and was allowed to stand for the Libs they would.
    Seriously, one of the recent polls had the LibDems winning it again.

    I know cuz I checked. LibDems had 40% in 2010 to 32% for Labour. If Labour and the LibDems poll at current levels, she's a gonna.
  • Hen Wlad Fy Nhadau (Land of my Fathers) is a rousing National Anthem, as is the Marsellaise. The Star Spangled Banner' isn't bad, either, nor the new Aussie one. "God defend New Zealand' always seems a bit naff, although having one English verse and one Maori one is novel.

    the French National Anthem is wonderfully rousing in terms of the tune and the impact it can have when you hear it - until you understand the lyrics

    [large French rant snipped!]

    Let us be grateful we don't get to hear all the verses!
    You mean there is more? Do they take an afternoon off to sing it?
    It is just a teensy weensy bit bloodthirsty...
  • kle4kle4 Posts: 82,456
    edited September 2019
    kinabalu said:

    eek said:

    Labour's policy is the correct approach - unfortunately it isn't sellable to a world where everyone is leave or remain....

    Yes. Good policy but tough to sell. The polarization is tedious but it's real.

    https://twitter.com/OwenJones84/status/1175718130766831616
    He speaks sense.
    Sandpit said:

    Mr. Jezziah, interesting you cite Saudi Arabia's involvement in the proxy war in Yemen (and entirely legitimately so), yet somehow forget Iran's involvement there.

    The whole reason there’s a civil war going on in Yemen, is that Qatar and Iran are funding and equipping insurgents who are trying to overthrow the government there.

    Behind that, it’s an old fashioned Sunni vs Shia conflict, which have been going on for literally centuries.
    And as bad as we have messed around in the region it's very infantilising that some think it all the fault of the West when some if the conflicts are so old.
  • AnabobazinaAnabobazina Posts: 15,463
    I can't imagine that an unreconstructed trot like Pidcock will get on the ballot.

    Thornberry has a good chance.

    I also think that McDonnell might make the ballot too – he's been an unexpected star for Labour. Bright, educated, hard-working and a superb communicator.

    He is also more sympathetic to the City than one might assume.
  • MattWMattW Posts: 15,127


    There's a verse which is almost never sung today, of course, which could have been anathema at your school:
    Lord, grant that Marshall Wade
    May, by Thy mighty aid,
    Victory bring.
    May he sedition hush,
    And like a torrent rush,
    Rebellious Scots to crush.
    God save the Queen

    Since Wade is probably most famous for his roads nowadays, simply change it:
    Lord, grant that Marshall Wade
    May, by Thy mighty aid,
    Transport bring.
    May his horse's hush,
    And bridge a torrent's rush,
    Rebellious stones to crush.
    God save the roads!
    AFAIK this was never an official verse, even in 1830, and mainly exists for SNP types fondling their outrage, in between singing about how anyone who has not fought with William Wallace in 1314 fighting the English is a traitor to Scotland 700 years later.
  • kinabalukinabalu Posts: 32,884
    Serious point this actually. Brexit does give us the chance to adopt a new national anthem for a new country in a new area. I'm going to add that to my list of Brexit positives. It's been stuck at 2 entries for ages so I do need to remember where I put it.
  • AnabobazinaAnabobazina Posts: 15,463
    These hypothetical polls are JFF – but one could easily envisage a scenario where CON LAB LIB and BXP all polled virtually the same score.
  • kle4kle4 Posts: 82,456



    Any song with God in is a poor choice. Jerusalem is about whether the Christ child visited England with his uncle, and 'building Jerusalem' here, it's about the glorification of Christianity and given the status of Jerusalem as the centre of religious strife and war in the middle east it's not a great ditty for the minority religions of the UK.

    I thought it was about a sheep.
    I find the words of the songs pretty irrelevant so long as people can belt it out with patriotic fervour. As an atheist I dont omit god from his save the queen.
  • kle4kle4 Posts: 82,456
    edited September 2019

    These hypothetical polls are JFF – but one could easily envisage a scenario where CON LAB LIB and BXP all polled virtually the same score.
    God what a mess that would be, probably what we deserve. Boris is so screwed. Polling says he wont be forgiven if we extend even though its not his fault. He will be praying the polling is wrong.
  • Under FPTP this would produce an overall majority for Noel Edmonds, or possibly squirrels
  • Under FPTP this would produce an overall majority for Noel Edmonds, or possibly squirrels
    Crystal clear indication of the meaning of "die" (as in "do or").
  • justin124justin124 Posts: 11,527



    LibDems have held Yardley in the not too dim-and-distant. And recent polls have them winning it again.

    No they don't. Although if Phillips defected and was allowed to stand for the Libs they would.
    Seriously, one of the recent polls had the LibDems winning it again.

    I know cuz I checked. LibDems had 40% in 2010 to 32% for Labour. If Labour and the LibDems poll at current levels, she's a gonna.
    The LibDems fell back to third place there in 2017 and polled just 18% to Labour's 57%. Labour is safe there.
  • kle4kle4 Posts: 82,456
    Roger said:

    Big Labour news! Unison supports Remain. Just makes Corbyn seem more impotent.

    Lds worst nightmare - labour getting their shit together, even under Corbyn.
  • Under FPTP this would produce an overall majority for Noel Edmonds, or possibly squirrels
    Like I said upthread, Mr Blobby will be the new national anthem.
  • Brom said:

    Scott_P said:
    Fallen off all the front pages and bbc website. Poor Niall.
    I am sure it will return. Probably the first of many such scandals. Boris Johnson is as unsuited for PM as Corbyn, just for different reasons. We need to keep being reminded!
  • OldKingColeOldKingCole Posts: 29,272

    Under FPTP this would produce an overall majority for Noel Edmonds, or possibly squirrels
    Red or grey?
  • kle4 said:

    Roger said:

    Big Labour news! Unison supports Remain. Just makes Corbyn seem more impotent.

    Lds worst nightmare - labour getting their shit together, even under Corbyn.
    Is that really very likely? About as likely as the Tories getting their shit together under Bozo
  • kle4kle4 Posts: 82,456

    kle4 said:

    Roger said:

    Big Labour news! Unison supports Remain. Just makes Corbyn seem more impotent.

    Lds worst nightmare - labour getting their shit together, even under Corbyn.
    Is that really very likely? About as likely as the Tories getting their shit together under Bozo
    Not completely together, but they seem to be adopting a more remainy position which undercuts the ld message a bit.
  • Under FPTP this would produce an overall majority for Noel Edmonds, or possibly squirrels
    Red or grey?
    Both together, until the grey ones are expelled go on to form a minority government with the support of LD and BXP
  • kle4 said:

    These hypothetical polls are JFF – but one could easily envisage a scenario where CON LAB LIB and BXP all polled virtually the same score.
    God what a mess that would be, probably what we deserve. Boris is so screwed. Polling says he wont be forgiven if we extend even though its not his fault. He will be praying the polling is wrong.
    "not his fault"? Well it is a view I suppose! I think most of this shit is at least partly his fault. He is a lying little toad who only supported leave because he thought it would advance his career. He then advocated no-deal for the same reason. He is beneath contempt.
  • kle4 said:

    These hypothetical polls are JFF – but one could easily envisage a scenario where CON LAB LIB and BXP all polled virtually the same score.
    God what a mess that would be, probably what we deserve. Boris is so screwed. Polling says he wont be forgiven if we extend even though its not his fault. He will be praying the polling is wrong.
    "Not his fault", except - like May - for proceeding like he had a 100-seat majority. The referendum and GE2017 showed lukewarm appetite for Brexit and the Tories, and it's absolutely their red lines which have put us where we are now: utterly polarised, with most Remainers who were prepared to compromise now manning the turrets against No Deal/hard Brexit.

    Genuine coalition-building around a far softer Brexit would have left the Tories in a better place among the electorate (and given that their own party unity is a lost cause anyway, they may as well have gone for that).

    None of this forgives the impressive "hold my beer" capabilities of the Her Majesty's Opposition, and a four-way split is exactly where they should expect to end up. The only bad thing about that is it probably weakens the chances of both main parties getting behind an election any time soon.
  • Dura_AceDura_Ace Posts: 10,741
    The demonstrates, as if further evidence were needed, that even if BJ manages to cobble together a shit deal, it's not getting through the HoC.
  • justin124 said:



    LibDems have held Yardley in the not too dim-and-distant. And recent polls have them winning it again.

    No they don't. Although if Phillips defected and was allowed to stand for the Libs they would.
    Seriously, one of the recent polls had the LibDems winning it again.

    I know cuz I checked. LibDems had 40% in 2010 to 32% for Labour. If Labour and the LibDems poll at current levels, she's a gonna.
    The LibDems fell back to third place there in 2017 and polled just 18% to Labour's 57%. Labour is safe there.
    If the Lib Dems were to poll 21% and Labour 25% (as per that ComRes hypothetical poll), where do you think Labour would drop their 15% vote share from the last election and where do you think the Lib Dems would put on their 14% extra vote share?

    One thing I would be fairly confident of, with a combined showing of 47% for Labour and the Conservatives, UNS would give a woeful indication of how many seats the two of them would take together.
  • Any PB thread which has a link to the KLF is a good thread....
  • FloaterFloater Posts: 14,195

    I can't imagine that an unreconstructed trot like Pidcock will get on the ballot.

    Thornberry has a good chance.

    I also think that McDonnell might make the ballot too – he's been an unexpected star for Labour. Bright, educated, hard-working and a superb communicator.

    He is also more sympathetic to the City than one might assume.

    You must be joking
  • OldKingColeOldKingCole Posts: 29,272
    Dura_Ace said:

    The demonstrates, as if further evidence were needed, that even if BJ manages to cobble together a shit deal, it's not getting through the HoC.
    Take it those figures are England-only?
  • "I'm sick of explaining to ill-informed foreigners why I don't want to be in a union with foreigners"

    https://www.telegraph.co.uk/politics/2019/09/22/sick-explaining-real-brexit-story-ill-informed-foreigners/
  • This has no doubt been covered before, so exsqueeze my ignorance, but is there anything to stop Boris applying for membership of EFTA on October 31st, thus sort of leaving the EU as promised? Or would he need permission from the Commons, EU and everyone else before doing so?
  • Erm, does he not realise he might need parliamentary support, which even with his massive majority might be difficult to obtain:

    https://www.msn.com/en-gb/news/uknews/boris-johnson-says-uk-could-join-trump-in-military-action-against-iran-after-saudi-arabia-attack/ar-AAHHd58?ocid=spartanntp
  • "I'm sick of explaining to ill-informed foreigners why I don't want to be in a union with foreigners"

    https://www.telegraph.co.uk/politics/2019/09/22/sick-explaining-real-brexit-story-ill-informed-foreigners/

    I'm sick of explaining to ill-informed Brits why they have been duped!
  • AlanbrookeAlanbrooke Posts: 21,648

    Brom said:

    Scott_P said:
    Fallen off all the front pages and bbc website. Poor Niall.
    I am sure it will return. Probably the first of many such scandals. Boris Johnson is as unsuited for PM as Corbyn, just for different reasons. We need to keep being reminded!
    pah. your Daily Mail morality kicks in

    President Hollande used to nip out for a quickie with an actress and then home to his partner and nobody batted an eyelid.
  • "I'm sick of explaining to ill-informed foreigners why I don't want to be in a union with foreigners"

    https://www.telegraph.co.uk/politics/2019/09/22/sick-explaining-real-brexit-story-ill-informed-foreigners/

    The poor man is clearly exasperated that the rest of the planet just doesn't appreciate how really, really amazing Boris is.
  • dyedwooliedyedwoolie Posts: 7,786
    If globalists hate it then it can't be that bad
    The ballad of Brexit
  • 'a much more engaging speaker that Rebecca Bibbly-Bobbly'?

    Shirley not?!
  • dyedwooliedyedwoolie Posts: 7,786

    Brom said:

    Scott_P said:
    Fallen off all the front pages and bbc website. Poor Niall.
    I am sure it will return. Probably the first of many such scandals. Boris Johnson is as unsuited for PM as Corbyn, just for different reasons. We need to keep being reminded!
    pah. your Daily Mail morality kicks in

    President Hollande used to nip out for a quickie with an actress and then home to his partner and nobody batted an eyelid.
    And Macron has a totally appropriate marriage with his former teacher
  • AlanbrookeAlanbrooke Posts: 21,648

    Brom said:

    Scott_P said:
    Fallen off all the front pages and bbc website. Poor Niall.
    I am sure it will return. Probably the first of many such scandals. Boris Johnson is as unsuited for PM as Corbyn, just for different reasons. We need to keep being reminded!
    pah. your Daily Mail morality kicks in

    President Hollande used to nip out for a quickie with an actress and then home to his partner and nobody batted an eyelid.
    And Macron has a totally appropriate marriage with his former teacher
    Its the stories re his bodyguard which deserve more scrutiny
  • I think it is unfair posting that. You need to wait and see if there is an islamophobic banner for Tory conference first.
    Boris pledged an inquiry into racism and Islamophobia in the Conservative Party and I'm sure it will start anytime now, if not sooner. Or perhaps that was just a political promise. What are the odds?
  • Brom said:

    Scott_P said:
    Fallen off all the front pages and bbc website. Poor Niall.
    I am sure it will return. Probably the first of many such scandals. Boris Johnson is as unsuited for PM as Corbyn, just for different reasons. We need to keep being reminded!
    pah. your Daily Mail morality kicks in

    President Hollande used to nip out for a quickie with an actress and then home to his partner and nobody batted an eyelid.
    And Macron has a totally appropriate marriage with his former teacher
    Were either of them quizzed by reporters for funnelling public money into the lady's business?
  • I can't imagine that an unreconstructed trot like Pidcock will get on the ballot.

    Thornberry has a good chance.

    I also think that McDonnell might make the ballot too – he's been an unexpected star for Labour. Bright, educated, hard-working and a superb communicator.

    He is also more sympathetic to the City than one might assume.

    I agree on McDonnell, he is clearly the best of the far left Labour leadership, and probably the best in the shadow cabinet. He is a better speaker, better interviewee, more consensual, more thoughtful than the others including Corbyn. I dont know if that would make him a better or worse option for the country than Corbyn though!

    Probably better in a hung parliament, but worse if he actually could implement what he believes in with a big majority of loyal MPs - the second scenario being very unlikely even in todays turbulent times.
  • Stark_DawningStark_Dawning Posts: 8,305
    edited September 2019
    That's absolutely terrible news for Boris. Remember, one of Dom's many masterstrokes was that a Brexit delay would allow Boris to win a landslide on a 'Boris people's champion versus Diehard Remainers in parliament' ticket. If the masses are going to desert Boris anyway then what really is the point of Boris?
  • "I'm sick of explaining to ill-informed foreigners why I don't want to be in a union with foreigners"

    https://www.telegraph.co.uk/politics/2019/09/22/sick-explaining-real-brexit-story-ill-informed-foreigners/

    The poor man is clearly exasperated that the rest of the planet just doesn't appreciate how really, really amazing Boris is.
    I am glad it is behind a paywall :D
  • HYUFDHYUFD Posts: 106,927
    edited September 2019
    So McDonnell proposes a 32 hour week, abolition of zero hours contracts and immediate workers rights for all workers on day 1 of employment under a Labour government in his speech to the Labour conference just now
  • PulpstarPulpstar Posts: 72,844
    edited September 2019
    Off topic, I appreciate transforming vouchers into a holiday prior to TC going El Busto was the smart move as the holiday was ATOL protected whereas Vouchers now are completely worthless but how on earth do you manage to accrue a couple of grands worth of vouchers ?!

  • CarnyxCarnyx Posts: 28,702

    "I'm sick of explaining to ill-informed foreigners why I don't want to be in a union with foreigners"

    https://www.telegraph.co.uk/politics/2019/09/22/sick-explaining-real-brexit-story-ill-informed-foreigners/

    The poor man is clearly exasperated that the rest of the planet just doesn't appreciate how really, really amazing Boris is.
    I am glad it is behind a paywall :D
    I was startled by the subheading "Vanishingly few outside these islands have ever been exposed to the Leave point of view."
  • Carnyx said:

    nichomar said:

    F

    nichomar said:

    Scott_P said:
    Point and laugh at the Labour Party.
    The most astonishing thing i have come across is the Mainstream polling of labour members by Yougov which found only 10% happy to sing the national anthem, - that is amazing.
    Why amazing ?i don’t support labour and am very uncomfortable singing it. It’s not about a country or it’s people it’s about a hereditary monarch. The other four verses are quite enlightening as well. The only time it sounds anywhere near uplifting is when it is fully orchestrated but that doesn’t change the words. As an aside England shouldn’t use it as their anthem at sports events either as it implies England are the nation state.
    I think that for one of the two main political parties to have only 10% of its membership happy to sing the national anthem is amazing. A quick google on the subject finds a Guardian article from the last year saying general support for monarchy is above 70%. That is a massive difference.
    I was referring to the anthem and it’s focus on the monarchy, in itself that is not an anti monarchy line but an anti anthem line because the nation is about an awful lot more than HMQ.
    Surely most people will go their entire lives without singing the national anthem. It is only recently we've expected the England football team to sing it rather than stand there chewing gum while it is played.
    I am in my 40s and we learnt it at school - a comprehensive. Isn’t it something everyone learns?
    Not at school but in the Scouts. I think they gave me a badge for learning all the verses.
    Me too - Cub Scouts I think more precisely. Also had to make up a scrapbnook re the doings of HM and her Royal Family. About 1990 I had a chat with an Akela [Cubs' packmistress] who complained that that part of the syllabus had become problematical as too many members of the RF had turned out not to be the upstanding examples of personal morality that were suitable for Cub Scout fodder! I have no idea what they do now.
    The Prince Andrew badge for...?
  • HYUFDHYUFD Posts: 106,927
    McDonnell also says the Government should have bailed out Thomas Cook

  • That's absolutely terrible news for Boris. Remember, one of Dom's many masterstrokes was that a Brexit delay would allow Boris to win a landslide on a 'Boris people's champion versus Diehard Remainers in parliament' ticket. If the masses are going to desert Boris anyway then what really is the point of Boris?

    It's hypothetical polling though, and who knows how the voters understood the question.
  • Brom said:

    Scott_P said:
    Fallen off all the front pages and bbc website. Poor Niall.
    I am sure it will return. Probably the first of many such scandals. Boris Johnson is as unsuited for PM as Corbyn, just for different reasons. We need to keep being reminded!
    pah. your Daily Mail morality kicks in

    President Hollande used to nip out for a quickie with an actress and then home to his partner and nobody batted an eyelid.
    That's not quite right. The French were deeply shocked.. by the fact that their President was scuttling off to see his mistress on a moped.
  • HYUFDHYUFD Posts: 106,927
    If Corbyn loses the next general election and Pidcock replaces him I think the LDs overtaking Labour as the main alternative to the Tories is inevitable
  • dyedwooliedyedwoolie Posts: 7,786

    Brom said:

    Scott_P said:
    Fallen off all the front pages and bbc website. Poor Niall.
    I am sure it will return. Probably the first of many such scandals. Boris Johnson is as unsuited for PM as Corbyn, just for different reasons. We need to keep being reminded!
    pah. your Daily Mail morality kicks in

    President Hollande used to nip out for a quickie with an actress and then home to his partner and nobody batted an eyelid.
    And Macron has a totally appropriate marriage with his former teacher
    Were either of them quizzed by reporters for funnelling public money into the lady's business?
    I've no idea. But then again, being asked questions isn't the same as having done wrong. I wonder why no fuss was made in 2013? It's not like this is all some hidden truth suddenly laid bare, it must have been known at the time
  • HYUFD said:

    McDonnell also says the Government should have bailed out Thomas Cook

    Why not? He's saying he'll throw countless billions at every other real or imagined cause, so a quarter of a billion on a tour operator is small change.
  • HYUFDHYUFD Posts: 106,927
    Which is why Boris will lead the Tories into opposition rather than stay PM and extend
  • dyedwooliedyedwoolie Posts: 7,786

    Carnyx said:

    nichomar said:

    F

    nichomar said:

    Scott_P said:
    Point and laugh at the Labour Party.
    The most astonishing thing i have come across is the Mainstream polling of labour members by Yougov which found only 10% happy to sing the national anthem, - that is amazing.
    Why amazing ?i don’t support labour and am very uncomfortable singing it. It’s not about a country or it’s people it’s about a hereditary monarch. The other four verses are quite enlightening as well. The only time it sounds anywhere near uplifting is when it is fully orchestrated but that doesn’t change the words. As an aside England shouldn’t use it as their anthem at sports events either as it implies England are the nation state.
    I think that for one of the two main political parties to have only 10% of its membership happy to sing the national anthem is amazing. A quick google on the subject finds a Guardian article from the last year saying general support for monarchy is above 70%. That is a massive difference.
    I was referring to the anthem and it’s focus on the monarchy, in itself that is not an anti monarchy line but an anti anthem line because the nation is about an awful lot more than HMQ.
    Surely most people will go their entire lives without singing the national anthem. It is only recently we've expected the England football team to sing it rather than stand there chewing gum while it is played.
    I am in my 40s and we learnt it at school - a comprehensive. Isn’t it something everyone learns?
    Not at school but in the Scouts. I think they gave me a badge for learning all the verses.
    Me too - Cub Scouts I think more precisely. Also had to make up a scrapbnook re the doings of HM and her Royal Family. About 1990 I had a chat with an Akela [Cubs' packmistress] who complained that that part of the syllabus had become problematical as too many members of the RF had turned out not to be the upstanding examples of personal morality that were suitable for Cub Scout fodder! I have no idea what they do now.
    The Prince Andrew badge for...?
    Keeping quiet
  • justin124justin124 Posts: 11,527

    justin124 said:



    LibDems have held Yardley in the not too dim-and-distant. And recent polls have them winning it again.

    No they don't. Although if Phillips defected and was allowed to stand for the Libs they would.
    Seriously, one of the recent polls had the LibDems winning it again.

    I know cuz I checked. LibDems had 40% in 2010 to 32% for Labour. If Labour and the LibDems poll at current levels, she's a gonna.
    The LibDems fell back to third place there in 2017 and polled just 18% to Labour's 57%. Labour is safe there.
    If the Lib Dems were to poll 21% and Labour 25% (as per that ComRes hypothetical poll), where do you think Labour would drop their 15% vote share from the last election and where do you think the Lib Dems would put on their 14% extra vote share?

    .
    That would still leave Labour on 41% with the LDs on 32%. Jess Phillips will have a personal vote. Yardley was Tory -held until 1992 when Estelle Morris won it for Labour. Prior to that , it had been a Labour/Tory marginal. The Tories were back in second place in 2017.
  • If labour claim they would bail out thomas cook, i presume basically every failing company will also get similar tax payer assistant. I suppose it is one way of nationalizing everything.
  • nichomar said:



    Any song with God in is a poor choice. Jerusalem is about whether the Christ child visited England with his uncle, and 'building Jerusalem' here, it's about the glorification of Christianity and given the status of Jerusalem as the centre of religious strife and war in the middle east it's not a great ditty for the minority religions of the UK.

    I thought it was about a sheep.
    It’s rather good even if it is a socialist hymn seeking to replace the dark satanic hills with the new Jerusalem.
    Yes I always thought it was a nice song and had elements to appeal to Left and Right alike. It is also a lovely rousing tune. As an atheist the God references don't bother me, but perhaps some others would be offended.
    That it was written by a non conformist, radical mystic always tickles me when I see/hear it being sung by the typical rugby crowd.
  • HYUFD said:

    If Corbyn loses the next general election and Pidcock replaces him I think the LDs overtaking Labour as the main alternative to the Tories is inevitable

    Is the icon next to your name representative of your hero, aka Boris Johnson?
  • Carnyx said:

    "I'm sick of explaining to ill-informed foreigners why I don't want to be in a union with foreigners"

    https://www.telegraph.co.uk/politics/2019/09/22/sick-explaining-real-brexit-story-ill-informed-foreigners/

    The poor man is clearly exasperated that the rest of the planet just doesn't appreciate how really, really amazing Boris is.
    I am glad it is behind a paywall :D
    I was startled by the subheading "Vanishingly few outside these islands have ever been exposed to the Leave point of view."
    Maybe they could ask their parents / grandparents who were undoubtedly exposed to the "Leave point of view" back in the sunnily-lit days of Empire....
  • PulpstarPulpstar Posts: 72,844
    edited September 2019
    HYUFD said:

    Which is why Boris will lead the Tories into opposition rather than stay PM and extend
    The question says nothing about who has extended to after October 31st, but I think the polling in reality would be different as to the exact circumstances of the extension.
    I think the polling hit for the Tories would be bigger if say Johnson did it compared to perhaps Bercow, a Scottish court, Harman or Corbyn being PM at the time (who knows ?)
    Mentally Brexiteers are reading that question as "And Boris has sold us down the river" I expect right now.
  • edmundintokyoedmundintokyo Posts: 16,522
    edited September 2019
    HYUFD said:

    So McDonnell proposes a 32 hour week

    Check the small print, it may exclude time spent fucking around on twitter in which case it's still a lot
  • SandpitSandpit Posts: 42,393
    HYUFD said:

    McDonnell also says the Government should have bailed out Thomas Cook

    Of course he did. Has he ever seen a failed business he didn’t want to nationalise?
  • dyedwooliedyedwoolie Posts: 7,786
    McDonnell promises UK reparations for our colonial past.
  • Under FPTP this would produce an overall majority for Noel Edmonds, or possibly squirrels
    Red ones 270
    Blue ones 172
    Orange ones 100
    Tartan ones 51
    Pale blue with Arrows 34
    Welsh ones 4
    Green ones 3

    .. according to Flavible
  • HYUFDHYUFD Posts: 106,927

    If labour claim they would bail out thomas cook, i presume basically every failing company will also get similar tax payer assistant. I suppose it is one way of nationalizing everything.

    Yes, a state controlled economy by the back door
  • Sandpit said:

    HYUFD said:

    McDonnell also says the Government should have bailed out Thomas Cook

    Of course he did. Has he ever seen a failed business he didn’t want to nationalise?
    They are the best kind. Strip off the debts and buy the core for £1
  • noneoftheabovenoneoftheabove Posts: 16,232
    edited September 2019

    HYUFD said:

    McDonnell also says the Government should have bailed out Thomas Cook

    Why not? He's saying he'll throw countless billions at every other real or imagined cause, so a quarter of a billion on a tour operator is small change.
    On questions like this we are ruled by dogma instead of practicality.

    Socialists say we must nationalise!
    Right wingers (cant call them conservatives and keep a straight face anymore) say it is a free market we must let the market decide!

    The correct question is clearly is the country better off by nationalising Thomas Cook, subsidising them temporarily with loan guarantess or letting them fail.

    We never get to that question.
  • TabmanTabman Posts: 1,028
    Does Pidcock pass the giggle test? Is she married?
  • TheuniondivvieTheuniondivvie Posts: 35,788
    edited September 2019

    This has no doubt been covered before, so exsqueeze my ignorance, but is there anything to stop Boris applying for membership of EFTA on October 31st, thus sort of leaving the EU as promised? Or would he need permission from the Commons, EU and everyone else before doing so?

    Hasn't EFTA been sprinkling icy water fairly consistently on the idea?
  • Stark_DawningStark_Dawning Posts: 8,305
    edited September 2019
    HYUFD said:

    McDonnell also says the Government should have bailed out Thomas Cook

    But what can Boris say in response? He's been 'picking winners' himself with taxpayers' money, and I'd suggest that the public has a greater affection for Thomas Cook than the failed business ventures of Ms Arcuri.
  • HYUFDHYUFD Posts: 106,927
    Pulpstar said:

    HYUFD said:

    Which is why Boris will lead the Tories into opposition rather than stay PM and extend
    The question says nothing about who has extended to after October 31st, but I think the polling in reality would be different as to the exact circumstances of the extension.
    I think the polling hit for the Tories would be bigger if say Johnson did it compared to perhaps Bercow, a Scottish court, Harman or Corbyn being PM at the time (who knows ?)
    Mentally Brexiteers are reading that question as "And Boris has sold us down the river" I expect right now.
    Which is why Boris will not do it
  • Brom said:

    Scott_P said:
    Fallen off all the front pages and bbc website. Poor Niall.
    I am sure it will return. Probably the first of many such scandals. Boris Johnson is as unsuited for PM as Corbyn, just for different reasons. We need to keep being reminded!
    pah. your Daily Mail morality kicks in

    President Hollande used to nip out for a quickie with an actress and then home to his partner and nobody batted an eyelid.
    And Macron has a totally appropriate marriage with his former teacher
    Its the stories re his bodyguard which deserve more scrutiny
    Carful not to out your inner homophobe!
This discussion has been closed.