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  • alex.alex. Posts: 4,658

    alex. said:

    Cyclefree said:

    Cyclefree said:

    alex. said:

    Cyclefree said:

    Cyclefree said:


    Or one could argue that if the school provides financial and other help to other schools (eg by establishing them, paying for them) and pupils elsewhere (who would not

    One final point: while the law and morality are not one and the same, the fact that a society has over a very long period of time determined that something is lawful may well be an indication that society considers it something worthwhile and moral in a more general sense. There are some obvious exceptions but what is lawful is an indication - not the only one, of course - but an important one of what a society values.
    Your second paragraph summarises my views pretty well to be fair.



    I do not believe private schools should have charitable status.

    I do not believe school fees should be VAT exempt.

    I do not believe the private schools sector serves this country positively, perpetuating as it does undeserved privilege down through the generations within the same families.

    I do not believe the private schools system helps the country make the most of its talent, since it enhances the chances of less able individuals whose families happen to be wealthy acheiving roles of great influence.

    I do believe we should do all we can to reduce this malign influence going forwards.

    There, rant over. I feel much better now. :smile:
    Have you considered the possibility that the charity “subsidy” does not benefit those paying the huge fees but those who don’t? That if they stopped doing the various charitable activities that they do, then it might make no difference to the large fee payers?
    Oh I am 100% certain it would make no noticable difference to the £42k Eton fee payers. But I still feel charitable status should be removed because it just plain wrong imo.

    Because you don’t think the charitable works they do are a good thing? Or because you don’t believe those works are charitable?

    You also contradict yourself, I think, because either they are using charitable status to benefits the £42k pupils or they aren’t. If they are, then it is a contradiction to say that it will make no noticeable difference to them, no?

    Anyway, appreciate it was a rant, so maybe not 100% coherent!

  • kle4kle4 Posts: 96,163
    Barnesian said:

    Barnesian said:

    Noo said:

    kle4 said:

    Whoever it was who said the movie Ad Astra was not worth anyone's time was very on the money. One of the most bizarrely and unintentionally surreal movie experiences I have encountered in a long time. Without major spoilers, any movie where I am left saying 'what on earth was the point of the space baboon attack?' is an odd one (and not as exciting as that sounds).

    It wasn't me, but I did chime in with the opinion that anything that's heavily advertised it probably not going to be worthwhile. Haven't seen it (yet).
    Heavily advertised? Not worth it? Are we talking about Ad Astra or Brexit?
    The initial reviews for Ad Astra gave it five or four stars. "A great film". "A masterpiece". The initial Guardian review was five stars, then four stars, then Kermode's three stars as the public comments came in. It will end up on two or one star. How did that happen? What were the reviewers thinking?

    https://www.theguardian.com/film/2019/sep/22/ad-astra-review-brad-pitt-james-gray#comment-133401304



    83% on Rotten Tomatoes
    83% from reviewers. 45% and a sick bucket from audiences.

    https://www.rottentomatoes.com/m/ad_astra

    Illustrates my point. I suspect herding from reviewers. Following the first few five star reviews, reviewers didn't want to step too much out of line. The audiences have no such qualms.
    Ad Astra takes a visually thrilling journey through the vast reaches of space while charting an ambitious course for the heart of the bond between parent and child

    Hahahaha. That is an hilariously overwrought description of the 'plot', and I use that term loosly. And visually stunning would be more apt than visually thrilling - the latter makes it sound like the movie itself is exciting, when even if one loved the film it is clearly meant to be slow paced and contemplative rather than thrilling.
  • FoxyFoxy Posts: 48,733
    Tories at War on C4 is rather amusing!
  • MarqueeMarkMarqueeMark Posts: 52,617

    alex. said:

    Looks like Thomas Cook flights are startling to be cancelled....

    Where are you seeing that?

    I'm keeping an eye on things for a friend who has a booking and I haven't seen any cancellations yet.
    Brexit killed Thomas Cook , right ?
    Skyscanner and Booking.com. They're in a dying market.
    Agreed.

    Brexit certainly contributed, but Thomas Cook is a defunct business model.

    Online has killed tens of thousands of old brands. And many, many more will fall. Including perhaps a 312 year golden oldie: the United Kingdom.
    218, surely?
    416?

    The "United Kingdom" only came about after GB united with Ireland in 1801.

    What was it called before ?
    Just Great Britain.
    More to the point, what's it going to be called after Scotland and/or NI leave?

    Little Britain?
    Greater Britain.....
  • kle4kle4 Posts: 96,163
    Scott_P said:
    We're told Corbyn is a consensus kind of chap, and he finds himself in the odd position of still be secure with the membership compared to any contender, while out of step with the membership on this issue (even though it is not as absurd as it seems at first glance), so presumably he will bow to the will of the members on this, and this is settled, and we see if that tempts LDs back.
  • BenpointerBenpointer Posts: 34,698

    alex. said:

    Looks like Thomas Cook flights are startling to be cancelled....

    Where are you seeing that?

    I'm keeping an eye on things for a friend who has a booking and I haven't seen any cancellations yet.
    Brexit killed Thomas Cook , right ?
    Skyscanner and Booking.com. They're in a dying market.
    Agreed.

    Brexit certainly contributed, but Thomas Cook is a defunct business model.

    Online has killed tens of thousands of old brands. And many, many more will fall. Including perhaps a 312 year golden oldie: the United Kingdom.
    218, surely?
    416?

    The "United Kingdom" only came about after GB united with Ireland in 1801.

    What was it called before ?
    Just Great Britain.
    More to the point, what's it going to be called after Scotland and/or NI leave?

    Little Britain?
    Greater Britain.....
    Little England more like.
  • CyclefreeCyclefree Posts: 25,318
    Foxy said:

    Cyclefree said:

    Foxy said:

    Cyclefree said:

    Foxy said:

    Cyclefree said:

    Noo said:

    Cyclefree said:

    Chris said:

    alex. said:






    *indeed when I was starting out, I was on several occasions appointed over better qualified applicants.
    Nor am I. I was just noting that the position for women is not hunky dory either - and can often get worse as they get older. It was much much tougher working when my children were older than when they were young babies, a point I make when talking to womens' groups. People often assume - wrongly - that it is the other way around.

    You need to fight hard against the "older women becoming invisible" rule which can be all too common in life.

    Quotas are a very crude way of dealing with a very real problem.

    I think Medicine has pretty much sorted equal ops now, and genuinely is a level playing field in the UK, not least because training and careers are in effect single provider, and that provider has genuine commitment to equality.

    I am not so convinced the same is true in areas where careers are much more exposed to patronage, networking, and club-ability. This is where discrimination happens now. Ironically, media, culture, politics and law seem particularly open to these.

    How many consultant surgeons are women with children? How many senior consultants generally? How many are part-time / full-time?

    Equal opportunity tends to hit the reality of working full-time while raising a family. It can be done but it's tough. And it's tough not just because of discrimination but because of the choices you have to make. For instance, for a period I made a decision never to attend any works do that was outside normal office hours simply because that time was for my family. And given the amount of networking that goes on that does keep you out of the loop a bit. Also, I avoided jobs which involved travel as a matter of routine, for the same family-related reasons.

    That made matters difficult when one of the factors for promotion was willingness to work in different offices round the globe and experience of doing so. It tends to discriminate, indirectly, against women (though not just them).

    But you make your choices in life and find other ways to make yourself a person worth keeping.

  • kle4kle4 Posts: 96,163

    Barnesian said:

    Barnesian said:

    Noo said:

    kle4 said:

    Whoever it was who said the movie Ad Astra was not worth anyone's time was very on the money. One of the most bizarrely and unintentionally surreal movie experiences I have encountered in a long time. Without major spoilers, any movie where I am left saying 'what on earth was the point of the space baboon attack?' is an odd one (and not as exciting as that sounds).

    It wasn't me, but I did chime in with the opinion that anything that's heavily advertised it probably not going to be worthwhile. Haven't seen it (yet).
    Heavily advertised? Not worth it? Are we talking about Ad Astra or Brexit?
    The initial reviews for Ad Astra gave it five or four stars. "A great film". "A masterpiece". The initial Guardian review was five stars, then four stars, then Kermode's three stars as the public comments came in. It will end up on two or one star. How did that happen? What were the reviewers thinking?

    https://www.theguardian.com/film/2019/sep/22/ad-astra-review-brad-pitt-james-gray#comment-133401304



    83% on Rotten Tomatoes
    83% from reviewers. 45% and a sick bucket from audiences.

    https://www.rottentomatoes.com/m/ad_astra

    Illustrates my point. I suspect herding from reviewers. Following the first few five star reviews, reviewers didn't want to step too much out of line. The audiences have no such qualms.
    Hmmm.... The Last Jedi got an "official" 91% but an audience 44%...
    Well, the audience are not always right! (especially when butthurt fanboys have an organised campaign :))
  • alex. said:

    Looks like Thomas Cook flights are startling to be cancelled....

    Where are you seeing that?

    I'm keeping an eye on things for a friend who has a booking and I haven't seen any cancellations yet.
    Brexit killed Thomas Cook , right ?
    Skyscanner and Booking.com. They're in a dying market.
    Agreed.

    Brexit certainly contributed, but Thomas Cook is a defunct business model.

    Online has killed tens of thousands of old brands. And many, many more will fall. Including perhaps a 312 year golden oldie: the United Kingdom.
    218, surely?
    416?

    The "United Kingdom" only came about after GB united with Ireland in 1801.

    What was it called before ?
    Just Great Britain.
    More to the point, what's it going to be called after Scotland and/or NI leave?

    Little Britain?
    England und Wales, surely?
    I assume the slip into German was accidental but whether 'und' oder 'and', it's not exactly elegant is it?
    A little more elegant than the "United Kingdom of Great Britain et Northern Ireland" :lol:
  • BenpointerBenpointer Posts: 34,698
    alex. said:

    alex. said:

    Cyclefree said:

    Cyclefree said:

    alex. said:

    Cyclefree said:

    Cyclefree said:

    Your second paragraph summarises my views pretty well to be fair.



    I do not believe private schools should have charitable status.

    I do not believe school fees should be VAT exempt.

    I do not believe the private schools sector serves this country positively, perpetuating as it does undeserved privilege down through the generations within the same families.

    I do not believe the private schools system helps the country make the most of its talent, since it enhances the chances of less able individuals whose families happen to be wealthy acheiving roles of great influence.

    I do believe we should do all we can to reduce this malign influence going forwards.

    There, rant over. I feel much better now. :smile:
    Have you considered the possibility that the charity “subsidy” does not benefit those paying the huge fees but those who don’t? That if they stopped doing the various charitable activities that they do, then it might make no difference to the large fee payers?
    Oh I am 100% certain it would make no noticable difference to the £42k Eton fee payers. But I still feel charitable status should be removed because it just plain wrong imo.

    Because you don’t think the charitable works they do are a good thing? Or because you don’t believe those works are charitable?

    You also contradict yourself, I think, because either they are using charitable status to benefits the £42k pupils or they aren’t. If they are, then it is a contradiction to say that it will make no noticeable difference to them, no?

    Anyway, appreciate it was a rant, so maybe not 100% coherent!

    Yes well, it was a rant and not even a wine-fuelled one, sadly.

    My point though was that removing charitable status (and even adding VAT) is unlikely to make a noticable difference ot the fee payers, meaning they will still find a way to pay the fees.

    University quotas for private school pupils would be my preferred way of curbing this privilege perpetuator.

  • Foxy said:

    Tories at War on C4 is rather amusing!

    I noticed that Mark Francois had the best predictions for how things would look now.
  • nichomarnichomar Posts: 7,483

    Cyclefree said:

    ydoethur said:

    nico67 said:

    Not sure Labour going after private schools is a good move .

    Removing charitable status should really be the only thing they should do . Looks like another own goal .

    The problem is all the key figures in Labour had a terrible education. Corbyn Milne, Starmer...they were all privately educated and promoted waaaaay beyond their very limited abilities as a result.
    I'd dearly love to know why @Charles's mum thinks Starmer is not fit for public office.
    I'm still trying to understand what a 'chair of chairs' is?
    I wonder if she is a very senior magistrate but you get no hits on chair of chairs
  • BenpointerBenpointer Posts: 34,698

    alex. said:

    Looks like Thomas Cook flights are startling to be cancelled....

    Where are you seeing that?

    I'm keeping an eye on things for a friend who has a booking and I haven't seen any cancellations yet.
    Brexit killed Thomas Cook , right ?
    Skyscanner and Booking.com. They're in a dying market.
    Agreed.

    Brexit certainly contributed, but Thomas Cook is a defunct business model.

    Online has killed tens of thousands of old brands. And many, many more will fall. Including perhaps a 312 year golden oldie: the United Kingdom.
    218, surely?
    416?

    The "United Kingdom" only came about after GB united with Ireland in 1801.

    What was it called before ?
    Just Great Britain.
    More to the point, what's it going to be called after Scotland and/or NI leave?

    Little Britain?
    England und Wales, surely?
    I assume the slip into German was accidental but whether 'und' oder 'and', it's not exactly elegant is it?
    A little more elegant than the "United Kingdom of Great Britain et Northern Ireland" :lol:
    Oui, c'est vrai.
  • kle4kle4 Posts: 96,163

    alex. said:

    Looks like Thomas Cook flights are startling to be cancelled....

    Where are you seeing that?

    I'm keeping an eye on things for a friend who has a booking and I haven't seen any cancellations yet.
    Brexit killed Thomas Cook , right ?
    Skyscanner and Booking.com. They're in a dying market.
    Agreed.

    Brexit certainly contributed, but Thomas Cook is a defunct business model.

    Online has killed tens of thousands of old brands. And many, many more will fall. Including perhaps a 312 year golden oldie: the United Kingdom.
    218, surely?
    416?

    The "United Kingdom" only came about after GB united with Ireland in 1801.

    What was it called before ?
    Just Great Britain.
    More to the point, what's it going to be called after Scotland and/or NI leave?

    Little Britain?
    England und Wales, surely?
    I assume the slip into German was accidental but whether 'und' oder 'and', it's not exactly elegant is it?
    A little more elegant than the "United Kingdom of Great Britain et Northern Ireland" :lol:
    Longest country name in the world! Tells you nature of the governance, and efficiently clarifies its geographic extent, that's very elegant.
  • AnabobazinaAnabobazina Posts: 23,509
    kle4 said:

    alex. said:

    Looks like Thomas Cook flights are startling to be cancelled....

    Where are you seeing that?

    I'm keeping an eye on things for a friend who has a booking and I haven't seen any cancellations yet.
    Brexit killed Thomas Cook , right ?
    Skyscanner and Booking.com. They're in a dying market.
    Agreed.

    Brexit certainly contributed, but Thomas Cook is a defunct business model.

    Online has killed tens of thousands of old brands. And many, many more will fall. Including perhaps a 312 year golden oldie: the United Kingdom.
    218, surely?
    416?

    The "United Kingdom" only came about after GB united with Ireland in 1801.

    What was it called before ?
    Just Great Britain.
    More to the point, what's it going to be called after Scotland and/or NI leave?

    Little Britain?
    England und Wales, surely?
    I assume the slip into German was accidental but whether 'und' oder 'and', it's not exactly elegant is it?
    A little more elegant than the "United Kingdom of Great Britain et Northern Ireland" :lol:
    Longest country name in the world! Tells you nature of the governance, and efficiently clarifies its geographic extent, that's very elegant.
    Is that true? That’s it’s the longest country name?
  • So is this a treaty or a deal then?

    https://twitter.com/i/status/1175874883265486854
  • kle4kle4 Posts: 96,163

    kle4 said:

    alex. said:

    Looks like Thomas Cook flights are startling to be cancelled....

    Where are you seeing that?

    I'm keeping an eye on things for a friend who has a booking and I haven't seen any cancellations yet.
    Brexit killed Thomas Cook , right ?
    Skyscanner and Booking.com. They're in a dying market.
    Agreed.

    Brexit certainly contributed, but Thomas Cook is a defunct business model.

    Online has killed tens of thousands of old brands. And many, many more will fall. Including perhaps a 312 year golden oldie: the United Kingdom.
    218, surely?
    416?

    The "United Kingdom" only came about after GB united with Ireland in 1801.

    What was it called before ?
    Just Great Britain.
    More to the point, what's it going to be called after Scotland and/or NI leave?

    Little Britain?
    England und Wales, surely?
    I assume the slip into German was accidental but whether 'und' oder 'and', it's not exactly elegant is it?
    A little more elegant than the "United Kingdom of Great Britain et Northern Ireland" :lol:
    Longest country name in the world! Tells you nature of the governance, and efficiently clarifies its geographic extent, that's very elegant.
    Is that true? That’s it’s the longest country name?
    That was my understanding, and a quick google seems to confirm it, after Libya changed its formal name a few years back.
  • FoxyFoxy Posts: 48,733
    Cyclefree said:

    Foxy said:

    Cyclefree said:

    Foxy said:

    Cyclefree said:

    Foxy said:

    Cyclefree said:

    Noo said:

    Cyclefree said:

    Chris said:

    alex. said:






    *indeed when I was starting out, I was on several occasions appointed over better qualified applicants.
    Nor am I. I was just noting that the position for women is not hunky dory either - and can often get worse as they get older. It was much much tougher working when my children were older than when they were young babies, a point I make when talking to womens' groups. People often assume - wrongly - that it is the other way around.

    You need to fight hard against the "older women becoming invisible" rule which can be all too common in life.

    Quotas are a very crude way of dealing with a very real problem.

    I think

    How many consultant surgeons are women with children? How many senior consultants generally? How many are part-time / full-time?

    Equal opportunity tends to hit the reality of working full-time while raising a family. It can be done but it's tough. And it's tough not just because of discrimination but because of the choices you have to make. For instance, for a period I made a decision never to attend any works do that was outside normal office hours simply because that time was for my family. And given the amount of networking that goes on that does keep you out of the loop a bit. Also, I avoided jobs which involved travel as a matter of routine, for the same family-related reasons.

    That made matters difficult when one of the factors for promotion was willingness to work in different offices round the globe and experience of doing so. It tends to discriminate, indirectly, against women (though not just them).

    But you make your choices in life and find other ways to make yourself a person worth keeping.

    Obviously there is a lag (a consultant aged 60 would have been appointed 20-25 years ago) but in newer appointments are pretty gender balanced.

    In my dept it is 50% male and female, and also balanced between UK, EU and Non EU trained, and ethnically. All the women are full time and have children, bar the youngest aged 33. Indeed the only part time is a white male with no kids (winding down to retirement).

    I think Medicine genuinely has got its house in order. There are variations between specialities, but it is not obviously relating to discrimination or in social hours. Obstetrics and acute paediatrics have the hardest rotas and are very female. Orthopeadics less so, for example.
  • HYUFDHYUFD Posts: 123,152
    kle4 said:

    Scott_P said:
    We're told Corbyn is a consensus kind of chap, and he finds himself in the odd position of still be secure with the membership compared to any contender, while out of step with the membership on this issue (even though it is not as absurd as it seems at first glance), so presumably he will bow to the will of the members on this, and this is settled, and we see if that tempts LDs back.
    The only way Corbyn gets all the Remainers back now is by committing to revoke, which would see scores of Labour Leave seats go Tory or Brexit Party
  • nunuonenunuone Posts: 1,138
    nico67 said:

    Not sure Labour going after private schools is a good move .

    Removing charitable status should really be the only thing they should do . Looks like another own goal .

    The more stupid policy is abolishing Ofsted.

    He will lose so many young parents votes with that policy.
  • GallowgateGallowgate Posts: 19,468
    HYUFD said:

    kle4 said:

    Scott_P said:
    We're told Corbyn is a consensus kind of chap, and he finds himself in the odd position of still be secure with the membership compared to any contender, while out of step with the membership on this issue (even though it is not as absurd as it seems at first glance), so presumably he will bow to the will of the members on this, and this is settled, and we see if that tempts LDs back.
    The only way Corbyn gets all the Remainers back now is by committing to revoke, which would see scores of Labour Leave seats go Tory or Brexit Party
    No it wouldn’t.
  • FoxyFoxy Posts: 48,733

    Foxy said:

    Tories at War on C4 is rather amusing!

    I noticed that Mark Francois had the best predictions for how things would look now.
    Nicky Morgan must be cringing.
  • El_CapitanoEl_Capitano Posts: 4,239
    edited September 2019
    nunuone said:

    nico67 said:

    Not sure Labour going after private schools is a good move .

    Removing charitable status should really be the only thing they should do . Looks like another own goal .

    The more stupid policy is abolishing Ofsted.

    He will lose so many young parents votes with that policy.
    I dunno. Our local primary was failed by Ofsted recently. Most of the parents have rowed in behind the school. This surprises me because, as far as I can tell, Ofsted was actually right.

    (FWIW, I think it is a stupid policy, but largely because - as per usual with Corbyn - he's offering 1970s solutions when the last couple of years have seen some interesting developments which could potentially make Ofsted obsolete in any case.)
  • CyclefreeCyclefree Posts: 25,318
    Foxy said:

    Cyclefree said:

    Foxy said:

    Cyclefree said:

    Foxy said:

    Cyclefree said:

    Foxy said:

    Cyclefree said:

    Noo said:

    Cyclefree said:

    Chris said:

    alex. said:










    How many consultant surgeons are women with children? How many senior consultants generally? How many are part-time / full-time?

    Equal opportunity tends to hit the reality of working full-time while raising a family. It can be done but it's tough. And it's tough not just because of discrimination but because of the choices you have to make. For instance, for a period I made a decision never to attend any works do that was outside normal office hours simply because that time was for my family. And given the amount of networking that goes on that does keep you out of the loop a bit. Also, I avoided jobs which involved travel as a matter of routine, for the same family-related reasons.

    That made matters difficult when one of the factors for promotion was willingness to work in different offices round the globe and experience of doing so. It tends to discriminate, indirectly, against women (though not just them).

    But you make your choices in life and find other ways to make yourself a person worth keeping.

    Obviously there is a lag (a consultant aged 60 would have been appointed 20-25 years ago) but in newer appointments are pretty gender balanced.

    In my dept it is 50% male and female, and also balanced between UK, EU and Non EU trained, and ethnically. All the women are full time and have children, bar the youngest aged 33. Indeed the only part time is a white male with no kids (winding down to retirement).

    I think Medicine genuinely has got its house in order. There are variations between specialities, but it is not obviously relating to discrimination or in social hours. Obstetrics and acute paediatrics have the hardest rotas and are very female. Orthopeadics less so, for example.
    Interesting, thank you.

    What is medicine doing right that others could learn from? Perhaps a header from you one day ......

    :)
  • CyclefreeCyclefree Posts: 25,318

    So is this a treaty or a deal then?

    https://twitter.com/i/status/1175874883265486854


    Presumably he doesn't want an FTA then.
  • dyedwooliedyedwoolie Posts: 7,786
    Not sure if covered but there will be no supreme court decision tomorrow morning, update on timing at lunchtime, read into that what you will
  • Guardian reporting thomas cook has gone bust.
  • HYUFDHYUFD Posts: 123,152

    HYUFD said:

    kle4 said:

    Scott_P said:
    We're told Corbyn is a consensus kind of chap, and he finds himself in the odd position of still be secure with the membership compared to any contender, while out of step with the membership on this issue (even though it is not as absurd as it seems at first glance), so presumably he will bow to the will of the members on this, and this is settled, and we see if that tempts LDs back.
    The only way Corbyn gets all the Remainers back now is by committing to revoke, which would see scores of Labour Leave seats go Tory or Brexit Party
    No it wouldn’t.
    Oh it most certainly would
  • viewcodeviewcode Posts: 22,131
    edited September 2019

    The "United Kingdom" only came about after GB united with Ireland in 1801.

    1606: James becomes simultaneously King of England, King of Scotland, and King of Ireland. But England (including Wales), Scotland and Ireland were separate with their own parliaments.

    1707-1800: England (including Wales) and Scotland were united into the "United Kingdom of Great Britain", with Anne becoming the first Queen of Great Britain (she was also Queen of Ireland). The Scottish Parliament closed, and the Westminster Parliament became the UK Parliament. Ireland was separate with its own parliament

    1801-1920's: Great Britain was united with Ireland, creating the "United Kingdom of Great Britain and Ireland", with George becoming the first King of the now-unified Kingdom of Great Britain and Ireland. The Ireland Parliament closed, and the Westminster Parliament remained the UK Parliament.

    1920's-1973: Ireland split into two parts, Ireland and Northern Ireland. Northern Ireland remained in the UK, creating the "United Kingdom of Great Britain and Northern Ireland", , with George becoming the first King of the now-renamed Kingdom of Great Britain and Northern Ireland.

    Ireland became a Dominion but that did not last long and eventually became a non-aligned republic outside the Commonwealth. Ireland opened up a new Parliament in Dublin, Northern Ireland sent MPs to Westminster but also opened up its own Parliament that passed some NI-only legislation.

    1973-date. The old NI parliament closed (prorogued) andNI-specific powers were transferred to Westminster. Since then they have ricocheted between the Westminister NI Ministry, various devolved bodies, and the new Assembly ever since.

  • nichomarnichomar Posts: 7,483
    HYUFD said:

    HYUFD said:

    kle4 said:

    Scott_P said:
    We're told Corbyn is a consensus kind of chap, and he finds himself in the odd position of still be secure with the membership compared to any contender, while out of step with the membership on this issue (even though it is not as absurd as it seems at first glance), so presumably he will bow to the will of the members on this, and this is settled, and we see if that tempts LDs back.
    The only way Corbyn gets all the Remainers back now is by committing to revoke, which would see scores of Labour Leave seats go Tory or Brexit Party
    No it wouldn’t.
    Oh it most certainly would
    It wouldn’t because nobody would believe him you are looking at this from the wrong side of the argument.
  • moonshinemoonshine Posts: 5,751

    alex. said:

    alex. said:

    Cyclefree said:

    Cyclefree said:

    alex. said:

    Cyclefree said:

    Cyclefree said:

    Your second paragraph summarises my views pretty well to be fair.



    I do not believe private schools should have charitable status.

    I do not believe school fees should be VAT exempt.

    I do not believe the private schools sector serves this country positively, perpetuating as it does undeserved privilege down through the generations within the same families.

    I do not believe the private schools system helps the country make the most of its talent, since it enhances the chances of less able individuals whose families happen to be wealthy acheiving roles of great influence.

    I do believe we should do all we can to reduce this malign influence going forwards.

    There, rant over. I feel much better now. :smile:
    .
    Oh I am 100% certain it would make no noticable difference to the £42k Eton fee payers. But I still feel charitable status should be removed because it just plain wrong imo.

    Because you don’t think the charitable works they do are a good thing? Or because you don’t believe those works are charitable?

    You also contradict yourself, I think, because either they are using charitable status to benefits the £42k pupils or they aren’t. If they are, then it is a contradiction to say that it will make no noticeable difference to them, no?

    Anyway, appreciate it was a rant, so maybe not 100% coherent!

    Yes well, it was a rant and not even a wine-fuelled one, sadly.

    My point though was that removing charitable status (and even adding VAT) is unlikely to make a noticable difference ot the fee payers, meaning they will still find a way to pay the fees.

    University quotas for private school pupils would be my preferred way of curbing this privilege perpetuator.

    You are deluded if you think 20% VAT won’t make any difference to fee payers. Such a policy would squeeze the budgets of most private schools, as they would be patently unable to pass on all the cost. And quite a few would fail.

    Class based quotas for university admissions would be the best way I can think of to destroy the standing of Britain’s top universities.

    This is the politics of spite and would simply lead to a wealth/brain drain.
  • nichomarnichomar Posts: 7,483
    Cyclefree said:

    So is this a treaty or a deal then?

    https://twitter.com/i/status/1175874883265486854


    Presumably he doesn't want an FTA then.

    No just some more donations to his pension fund party
  • DruttDrutt Posts: 1,124
    Scott_P said:
    I'd like to think that somewhere in WC2 the trainee solicitor responsible for the appalling bundles in the Supreme Court hearing has been put on wholly needless all-night weekend photocopying for the abortive Thomas Cook refi.

    Sadly I don't think the same firm is involved.
  • nichomarnichomar Posts: 7,483
    Cyclefree said:

    Foxy said:

    Cyclefree said:

    Foxy said:

    Cyclefree said:

    Foxy said:

    Cyclefree said:

    Foxy said:

    Cyclefree said:

    Noo said:

    Cyclefree said:

    Chris said:

    alex. said:










    How many consultant surgeons are women with children? How many senior consultants generally? How many are part-time / full-time?

    Equal opportunity tends to hit the reality of working full-time while raising a family. It can be done but it's tough. And it's tough not just because of discrimination but because of the choices you have to make. For instance, for a period I made a decision never to attend any works do that was outside normal office hours simply because that time was for my family. And given the amount of networking that goes on that does keep you out of the loop a bit. Also, I avoided jobs which involved travel as a matter of routine, for the same family-related reasons.

    That made matters difficult when one of the factors for promotion was willingness to work in different offices round the globe and experience of doing so. It tends to discriminate, indirectly, against women (though not just them).

    But you make your choices in life and find other ways to make yourself a person worth keeping.

    Obviously there is a lag (a consultant aged 60 would have been appointed 20-25 years ago) but in newer appointments are pretty gender balanced.

    In my dept it is 50% male and female, and also balanced between UK, EU and Non EU trained, and ethnically. All the women are full time and have children, bar the youngest aged 33. Indeed the only part time is a white male with no kids (winding down to retirement).

    I think Medicine genuinely has got its house in order. There are variations between specialities, but it is not obviously relating to discrimination or in social hours. Obstetrics and acute paediatrics have the hardest rotas and are very female. Orthopeadics less so, for example.
    Interesting, thank you.

    What is medicine doing right that others could learn from? Perhaps a header from you one day ......

    :)
    Possibly because there are not enough doctors!
  • nico67nico67 Posts: 4,502

    Guardian reporting thomas cook has gone bust.

    Very sad . Yet another stalwart of the high street bites the dust.
  • MarqueeMarkMarqueeMark Posts: 52,617

    Not sure if covered but there will be no supreme court decision tomorrow morning, update on timing at lunchtime, read into that what you will

    They are waiting for Thomas Cook to go bust and will give their judgment when they can dominate the news cycle.....
  • FoxyFoxy Posts: 48,733
    Cyclefree said:

    Foxy said:

    Cyclefree said:

    Foxy said:

    Cyclefree said:

    Foxy said:

    Cyclefree said:

    Foxy said:

    Cyclefree said:

    Noo said:

    Cyclefree said:

    Chris said:

    alex. said:










    How many consultant surgeons are women with children? How many senior consultants generally? How many are part-time / full-time?

    Equal opportunity tends to hit the reality of working full-time while raising a family. It can be done but it's tough. And it's tough not just because of discrimination but because of the choices you have to make. For instance, for a period I made a decision never to attend any works do that was outside normal office hours simply because that time was for my family. And given the amount of networking that goes on that does keep you out of the loop a bit. Also, I avoided jobs which involved travel as a matter of routine, for the same family-related reasons.

    That made matters difficult when one of the factors for promotion was willingness to work in different offices round the globe and experience of doing so. It tends to discriminate, indirectly, against women (though not just them).

    But you make your choices in life and find other ways to make yourself a person worth keeping.

    Obviously there is a lag (a consultant aged 60 would have been appointed 20-25 years ago) but in newer appointments are pretty gender balanced.

    In my dept it is 50% male and female, and also balanced between UK, EU and Non EU trained, and ethnically. All the women are full time and have children, bar the youngest aged 33. Indeed the only part time is a white male with no kids (winding down to retirement).

    I think Medicine genuinely has got its house in order. There are variations between specialities, but it is not obviously relating to discrimination or in social hours. Obstetrics and acute paediatrics have the hardest rotas and are very female. Orthopeadics less so, for example.
    Interesting, thank you.

    What is medicine doing right that others could learn from? Perhaps a header from you one day ......

    :)
    There is a lot wrong with medical careers, but perhaps the biggest change was national selection panels for training posts based on objective criteria. This has effectively killed patronage.
  • HYUFDHYUFD Posts: 123,152
    nichomar said:

    HYUFD said:

    HYUFD said:

    kle4 said:

    Scott_P said:
    We're told Corbyn is a consensus kind of chap, and he finds himself in the odd position of still be secure with the membership compared to any contender, while out of step with the membership on this issue (even though it is not as absurd as it seems at first glance), so presumably he will bow to the will of the members on this, and this is settled, and we see if that tempts LDs back.
    The only way Corbyn gets all the Remainers back now is by committing to revoke, which would see scores of Labour Leave seats go Tory or Brexit Party
    No it wouldn’t.
    Oh it most certainly would
    It wouldn’t because nobody would believe him you are looking at this from the wrong side of the argument.
    In which case he will keep leaking Remainers to the LDs
  • moonshinemoonshine Posts: 5,751
    nico67 said:

    Guardian reporting thomas cook has gone bust.

    Very sad . Yet another stalwart of the high street bites the dust.
    Why is it sad? This is a normal part of our economic system. Disrupters found a way to make travel cheaper and more transparent, to the significant benefit of the consumer. So the laggards shut up shop. It’s sad for those that lose their jobs but that’s it.
  • DruttDrutt Posts: 1,124
    Plenty of aviation Twitter types saying TC has popped. CAA has wet-leased replacement aircraft and crew as of sometime tonight, so anyone overseas tonight will be flying back in the public sector
  • Cyclefree said:

    So is this a treaty or a deal then?

    https://twitter.com/i/status/1175874883265486854

    Presumably he doesn't want an FTA then.
    He doesn’t want to come to any terms which acknowledge the EU’s dominant position in Europe.
  • IanB2IanB2 Posts: 49,869

    Not sure if covered but there will be no supreme court decision tomorrow morning, update on timing at lunchtime, read into that what you will

    They are waiting for Thomas Cook to go bust and will give their judgment when they can dominate the news cycle.....
    Tipped by The Times as a “buy” less than a year ago....
  • ab195ab195 Posts: 477
    This Thomas Cook business is interesting. Boris and co have an excuse to piss all over the Labour conference and monopolise the news. If Boris also gets some good mood music from the EU meetings in the UN, you’d think he’ll consolidate his position in the polls.

    On the other hand if the repatriation is a cock up, the EU leaders tell Boris to piss off, and he loses the court case, you’d think even Corbyn will find the words to give him a kicking.

    Interesting week.
  • TGOHFTGOHF Posts: 21,633
    Good point this...

    Next up - Universities...


    https://twitter.com/rcolvile/status/1175873527947436033?s=21
  • moonshine said:

    nico67 said:

    Guardian reporting thomas cook has gone bust.

    Very sad . Yet another stalwart of the high street bites the dust.
    Why is it sad? This is a normal part of our economic system. Disrupters found a way to make travel cheaper and more transparent, to the significant benefit of the consumer. So the laggards shut up shop. It’s sad for those that lose their jobs but that’s it.
    It would have been nice if Thomas Cook had found a way to change with the times and reinvent themselves, keeping a link with history in the process. Otherwise I do agree with you. It's an idea examined in science fiction that death is necessary to allow for life, otherwise there is not room for anything new.
  • IanB2IanB2 Posts: 49,869
    ydoethur said:

    alex. said:

    alex. said:

    Looks like Thomas Cook flights are startling to be cancelled....

    Where are you seeing that?

    I'm keeping an eye on things for a friend who has a booking and I haven't seen any cancellations yet.
    Brexit killed Thomas Cook , right ?
    Skyscanner and Booking.com. They're in a dying market.
    Agreed.

    Brexit certainly contributed, but Thomas Cook is a defunct business model.

    Online has killed tens of thousands of old brands. And many, many more will fall. Including perhaps a 312 year golden oldie: the United Kingdom.
    218, surely?
    416?

    The "United Kingdom" only came about after GB united with Ireland in 1801.

    No Stuart is right. It was the United Kingdom from 1707. Well, according to wiki anyway!
    Wiki is wrong and Sunil is right. It was 'Great Britain' from 1707, although the name was used informally from 1603 to 1649, and the 'United Kingdom' when the Kingdom of Ireland was integrated into it.
    ‘Twas James I (James the more of Scotland) who first promoted calling ourselves British. At the time the Scots were keen and the English not.
  • viewcodeviewcode Posts: 22,131

    moonshine said:

    nico67 said:

    Guardian reporting thomas cook has gone bust.

    Very sad . Yet another stalwart of the high street bites the dust.
    Why is it sad? This is a normal part of our economic system. Disrupters found a way to make travel cheaper and more transparent, to the significant benefit of the consumer. So the laggards shut up shop. It’s sad for those that lose their jobs but that’s it.
    It would have been nice if Thomas Cook had found a way to change with the times and reinvent themselves, keeping a link with history in the process. Otherwise I do agree with you. It's an idea examined in science fiction that death is necessary to allow for life, otherwise there is not room for anything new.
    Everybody realise the old must die to make way for the new.
    Everybody is a fan of creative destruction.
    Everybody wants to go to Heaven...

    ...yet nobody wants to die... :(
  • FishingFishing Posts: 5,056
    glw said:
    All of a sudden, his conduct over the past two years makes sense.
  • IanB2 said:

    ydoethur said:

    alex. said:

    alex. said:

    Looks like Thomas Cook flights are startling to be cancelled....

    Where are you seeing that?

    I'm keeping an eye on things for a friend who has a booking and I haven't seen any cancellations yet.
    Brexit killed Thomas Cook , right ?
    Skyscanner and Booking.com. They're in a dying market.
    Agreed.

    Brexit certainly contributed, but Thomas Cook is a defunct business model.

    Online has killed tens of thousands of old brands. And many, many more will fall. Including perhaps a 312 year golden oldie: the United Kingdom.
    218, surely?
    416?

    The "United Kingdom" only came about after GB united with Ireland in 1801.

    No Stuart is right. It was the United Kingdom from 1707. Well, according to wiki anyway!
    Wiki is wrong and Sunil is right. It was 'Great Britain' from 1707, although the name was used informally from 1603 to 1649, and the 'United Kingdom' when the Kingdom of Ireland was integrated into it.
    ‘Twas James I (James the more of Scotland) who first promoted calling ourselves British. At the time the Scots were keen and the English not.
    The Kingdom of England and the Kingdom of Scotland were still in existence in 1707. Then it was the Kingdom of Great Britain from 1707 to 1801.
  • PendduPenddu Posts: 265
    From the Two Ronnies many years ago....
    The United Kingdom of England, Wales (for the time being), Scotland (ditto) and Parts of Nothern Ireland.
  • moonshinemoonshine Posts: 5,751
    viewcode said:

    moonshine said:

    nico67 said:

    Guardian reporting thomas cook has gone bust.

    Very sad . Yet another stalwart of the high street bites the dust.
    Why is it sad? This is a normal part of our economic system. Disrupters found a way to make travel cheaper and more transparent, to the significant benefit of the consumer. So the laggards shut up shop. It’s sad for those that lose their jobs but that’s it.
    It would have been nice if Thomas Cook had found a way to change with the times and reinvent themselves, keeping a link with history in the process. Otherwise I do agree with you. It's an idea examined in science fiction that death is necessary to allow for life, otherwise there is not room for anything new.
    Everybody realise the old must die to make way for the new.
    Everybody is a fan of creative destruction.
    Everybody wants to go to Heaven...

    ...yet nobody wants to die... :(
    No need to anthropomorphize a limited company. It’s our political system’s recent extreme aversion to creative destruction that is causing such extreme stress in our economic system (and by consequence society).
  • nico67nico67 Posts: 4,502
    Labours dementia tax if this ends up being in a manifesto .

    It’s a self indulgent policy and reeks of class war and will go down badly with the more middle class Labour voters .

    This is Labour talking to themself and you’d think in the run up to an election you’d think of policies that make people more likely to vote for you not less likely .

    Another huge own goal .
  • viewcode said:

    The "United Kingdom" only came about after GB united with Ireland in 1801.

    1606: James becomes simultaneously King of England, King of Scotland, and King of Ireland.
    1603!
  • viewcode said:

    moonshine said:

    nico67 said:

    Guardian reporting thomas cook has gone bust.

    Very sad . Yet another stalwart of the high street bites the dust.
    Why is it sad? This is a normal part of our economic system. Disrupters found a way to make travel cheaper and more transparent, to the significant benefit of the consumer. So the laggards shut up shop. It’s sad for those that lose their jobs but that’s it.
    It would have been nice if Thomas Cook had found a way to change with the times and reinvent themselves, keeping a link with history in the process. Otherwise I do agree with you. It's an idea examined in science fiction that death is necessary to allow for life, otherwise there is not room for anything new.
    Everybody realise the old must die to make way for the new.
    Everybody is a fan of creative destruction.
    Everybody wants to go to Heaven...

    ...yet nobody wants to die... :(
    That's not quite true. Dignitas hasn't gone out of business.

    My Grandad was very accepting that his end was nigh for more than his last decade of life.
  • viewcodeviewcode Posts: 22,131

    viewcode said:

    The "United Kingdom" only came about after GB united with Ireland in 1801.

    1606: James becomes simultaneously King of England, King of Scotland, and King of Ireland.
    1603!
    Arse. Yes, you're right.
  • MikeLMikeL Posts: 7,711
    Surely the point about Labour abolishing private schools is that the people directly affected (ie private schools parents) are adversely affected whereas the people who (supposedly) benefit (all other parents) only benefit indirectly.

    So whilst 7% is only a small number directly affected there will be a chunk of votes lost in that pool whereas it's hard to gain votes from people who only benefit indirectly.

    The effect is also greater than maybe thought given that Labour now has a good amount of support amongst ABC1s. Even if only 20% of private school parents vote Labour that's 1.4% of total electorate who have been given a pretty big push to leave Labour.
  • moonshinemoonshine Posts: 5,751

    Home Counties AB Tory Remainers that have been flirting with the Lib Dem’s are going to have serious pause for thought when they read this. Charitable status revoked and VAT charged on fees in Labour’s first budget!

    Think Labour conference has just guaranteed the likes of Guildford staying blue rather than flipping yellow.
  • Luckyguy1983Luckyguy1983 Posts: 28,490
    edited September 2019
    MikeL said:

    Surely the point about Labour abolishing private schools is that the people directly affected (ie private schools parents) are adversely affected whereas the people who (supposedly) benefit (all other parents) only benefit indirectly.

    So whilst 7% is only a small number directly affected there will be a chunk of votes lost in that pool whereas it's hard to gain votes from people who only benefit indirectly.

    The effect is also greater than maybe thought given that Labour now has a good amount of support amongst ABC1s. Even if only 20% of private school parents vote Labour that's 1.4% of total electorate who have been given a pretty big push to leave Labour.

    It will never happen, but I don't think there would be much benefit, direct or indirect. The very rich would send (or keep) their children abroad, benefitting the economies of other countries. The merely well-off would send their kids to schools in good areas (placing the chief burden of educating their children back on the taxpayer), and spend some money on private tuition (assuming this isn't also banned). Cretinous garbage.
  • CyclefreeCyclefree Posts: 25,318
    moonshine said:


    Home Counties AB Tory Remainers that have been flirting with the Lib Dem’s are going to have serious pause for thought when they read this. Charitable status revoked and VAT charged on fees in Labour’s first budget!

    Think Labour conference has just guaranteed the likes of Guildford staying blue rather than flipping yellow.

    Worth noting what McDonnell is reported as saying in that article.
  • One interesting detail about Thomas Cook is that they've paid out £1.2bn in interest on their debt over recent years. That suggests that, despite the challenge from the internet, there is a market there for other companies not weighed down by a debt burden.
  • RobDRobD Posts: 59,936

    One interesting detail about Thomas Cook is that they've paid out £1.2bn in interest on their debt over recent years. That suggests that, despite the challenge from the internet, there is a market there for other companies not weighed down by a debt burden.

    It's apparently over the last ten years, whereas their last half-year loss was £1.5bn.
  • Gabs2Gabs2 Posts: 1,268
    Cyclefree said:

    So is this a treaty or a deal then?

    https://twitter.com/i/status/1175874883265486854


    Presumably he doesn't want an FTA then.
    It is a spectacularly stupid position.
  • moonshine said:


    Home Counties AB Tory Remainers that have been flirting with the Lib Dem’s are going to have serious pause for thought when they read this. Charitable status revoked and VAT charged on fees in Labour’s first budget!

    Think Labour conference has just guaranteed the likes of Guildford staying blue rather than flipping yellow.

    You know the LibDems and Labour are different parties, right?
  • moonshinemoonshine Posts: 5,751

    moonshine said:


    Home Counties AB Tory Remainers that have been flirting with the Lib Dem’s are going to have serious pause for thought when they read this. Charitable status revoked and VAT charged on fees in Labour’s first budget!

    Think Labour conference has just guaranteed the likes of Guildford staying blue rather than flipping yellow.

    You know the LibDems and Labour are different parties, right?
    The thing about this website is it gives insight unavailable anywhere else!

    Yes I am aware. But the Tory pitch in these seats will be simple. Johnson vs Corbyn aka a vote for anyone but Johnson is a vote for a Corbyn government. I suspect it will be effective in the face of these sorts of policies.
  • moonshinemoonshine Posts: 5,751
    Cyclefree said:

    moonshine said:


    Home Counties AB Tory Remainers that have been flirting with the Lib Dem’s are going to have serious pause for thought when they read this. Charitable status revoked and VAT charged on fees in Labour’s first budget!

    Think Labour conference has just guaranteed the likes of Guildford staying blue rather than flipping yellow.

    Worth noting what McDonnell is reported as saying in that article.
    It is. It’s also a reason why Remain is an odd preference for the Momentum lot.
  • malcolmgmalcolmg Posts: 43,362

    nico67 said:

    No Supreme Court decision tomorrow . Now more likely on Tuesday.

    It’s very unlikely they’d be taking this long to just decide if the issue is justiciable .

    Looks like this is going to go against HMG.

    HMG lied to HM, and she let them.

    That doesn’t just cripple HMG, it fundamentally weakens HM and the entire system.

    She has had a good run, but her reign is not going to end well. Cheers Dave.
    You lie with dogs
This discussion has been closed.