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politicalbetting.com » Blog Archive » New Democrat nominee polling finds Warren’s generates the most

SystemSystem Posts: 8,489
edited September 2019 in General

imagepoliticalbetting.com » Blog Archive » New Democrat nominee polling finds Warren’s generates the most enthusiasm

 

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  • First like Hillary
  • HYUFDHYUFD Posts: 105,146
    edited September 2019
    Yes, Warren I think is the likely Democratic nominee now and I think Trump would prefer to face her than Biden
  • AlistairAlistair Posts: 23,660
    My girl Lizzie Warren all up in the Houssssse. Feel the enthusiasm. Let's get this party started.

    With a detailed 43 point plan for optimal party enjoyment amongst All members of society, not just the super rich.
  • Elizabeth Warren is generally 6/4 to be the Democrat candidate. It is not a tempting price for an event that won't be settled for the best part of a year.
  • RogerRoger Posts: 17,461
    edited September 2019
    OT. Cameron is clearly a decent guy which is something you can't say for his shitty colleagues. Fascinating program though.
  • MaxPBMaxPB Posts: 36,204
    Honestly, Dave said it all. The EU wouldn't give him what he wanted in the renegotiation because they thought we would never leave.

    He was the key player in all of it. He needed to walk away in the negotiation and indicate he would recommend the leave vote, having witnessed the disrespect shown to the UK and put the referendum date in May of 2017.

    He was far, far too complacent.
  • stodgestodge Posts: 11,000
    Evening all :)

    I've decided to have a picture which shows what a true Englishman I am.
  • BenpointerBenpointer Posts: 23,734
    stodge said:

    Evening all :)

    I've decided to have a picture which shows what a true Englishman I am.

    A picture of stodge eh? :wink:
  • Cleggy saying Osborne's project fear economic projections were "back of a fag packet".
  • BenpointerBenpointer Posts: 23,734
    OT How is Farage going to react to this purported deal? Does it depend on the specifics or is any deal a sell-out as far as he's concerned?

    Farage's reaction could affect BoJo's prospects if the deal materialises and gets past the HoC.
  • MaxPBMaxPB Posts: 36,204

    OT How is Farage going to react to this purported deal? Does it depend on the specifics or is any deal a sell-out as far as he's concerned?

    Farage's reaction could affect BoJo's prospects if the deal materialises and gets past the HoC.

    Does it matter? If we get out of the EU with a deal and Boris falls that's surely a double win.
  • Joe Swinson?!

    Roflcopter
  • Roger said:

    OT. Cameron is clearly a decent guy which is something you can't say for his shitty colleagues. Fascinating program though.

    Are you sure? There is a great deal of self-justification. And a touch of hypocrisy: it is disloyal for Gove to join Leave, but OK for Cameron to have sacked Gove from Education.
  • RogerRoger Posts: 17,461
    Has there ever been a sleazier snake in the grass than Gove? Maybe Johnson except he seems too stupid to know what he was doing.
  • MaxPB said:

    OT How is Farage going to react to this purported deal? Does it depend on the specifics or is any deal a sell-out as far as he's concerned?

    Farage's reaction could affect BoJo's prospects if the deal materialises and gets past the HoC.

    Does it matter? If we get out of the EU with a deal and Boris falls that's surely a double win.
    "There was me, that is Alexander Boris de Pfeffel, and my three droogs, that is Priti, Govey, and Davey D, and we sat in the Kensington Milkbar trying to make up our rassoodocks what to do with the evening. The Kensington milkbar sold milk-plus, milk plus Chlorinated Chicken or GM Soya or Corn Syrup, which is what we were drinking. This would sharpen you up and make you ready for a bit of the old ultra-Brexit!"
  • justin124justin124 Posts: 11,527
    I am inclined to think that too much is being made of Cameron's revelations concerning his discussions with the Queen at the time of the Independence Referendum . In his memoirs , Churchill provided details of what George VI said to him at the time of his appointment as PM in May 1940. Is this so very different?
  • bigjohnowlsbigjohnowls Posts: 19,569
    MaxPB said:

    Honestly, Dave said it all. The EU wouldn't give him what he wanted in the renegotiation because they thought we would never leave.

    He was the key player in all of it. He needed to walk away in the negotiation and indicate he would recommend the leave vote, having witnessed the disrespect shown to the UK and put the referendum date in May of 2017.

    He was far, far too complacent.

    He is a twat.



    According to Danny Dyer



  • kle4kle4 Posts: 81,465
    I assume everyone is just waiting for more exciting local by-election news?

    One round my way at Ethandune - must be an unlucky seat, it's the second time they've had a by-election caused by death of an incumbent in just 5 years.
  • BenpointerBenpointer Posts: 23,734
    MaxPB said:

    OT How is Farage going to react to this purported deal? Does it depend on the specifics or is any deal a sell-out as far as he's concerned?

    Farage's reaction could affect BoJo's prospects if the deal materialises and gets past the HoC.

    Does it matter? If we get out of the EU with a deal and Boris falls that's surely a double win.
    As a Remainer I was nevertheless keen to see May's deal approved so, assuming Boris's 'deal' is simply May's with a bit of added fudge and waffle, I'd be ok with it.

    Still a lot of hurdles to cross though before Boris can declare a deal is done.
  • kle4kle4 Posts: 81,465

    MaxPB said:

    Honestly, Dave said it all. The EU wouldn't give him what he wanted in the renegotiation because they thought we would never leave.

    He was the key player in all of it. He needed to walk away in the negotiation and indicate he would recommend the leave vote, having witnessed the disrespect shown to the UK and put the referendum date in May of 2017.

    He was far, far too complacent.

    He is a twat.

    According to Danny Dyer

    So a thousand memes have told me, one day I must get around to googling who the amazing Mr Dyer is. Which isn't a slight on him, I've just never yet made the leap to make the effort.
  • JonathanJonathan Posts: 19,604
    Cameron believed his own hype and screwed it up. We will pay the price for his hubris for many years to come.
  • justin124justin124 Posts: 11,527

    MaxPB said:

    OT How is Farage going to react to this purported deal? Does it depend on the specifics or is any deal a sell-out as far as he's concerned?

    Farage's reaction could affect BoJo's prospects if the deal materialises and gets past the HoC.

    Does it matter? If we get out of the EU with a deal and Boris falls that's surely a double win.
    As a Remainer I was nevertheless keen to see May's deal approved so, assuming Boris's 'deal' is simply May's with a bit of added fudge and waffle, I'd be ok with it.

    Still a lot of hurdles to cross though before Boris can declare a deal is done.
    Why would Labour wish to provide someone as widely despised as Johnson with support which they denied to Theresa May?
  • BenpointerBenpointer Posts: 23,734
    kle4 said:

    MaxPB said:

    Honestly, Dave said it all. The EU wouldn't give him what he wanted in the renegotiation because they thought we would never leave.

    He was the key player in all of it. He needed to walk away in the negotiation and indicate he would recommend the leave vote, having witnessed the disrespect shown to the UK and put the referendum date in May of 2017.

    He was far, far too complacent.

    He is a twat.

    According to Danny Dyer

    So a thousand memes have told me, one day I must get around to googling who the amazing Mr Dyer is. Which isn't a slight on him, I've just never yet made the leap to make the effort.
    I think he's a distant cousin of @Charles :wink:
  • spire2spire2 Posts: 183

    MaxPB said:

    OT How is Farage going to react to this purported deal? Does it depend on the specifics or is any deal a sell-out as far as he's concerned?

    Farage's reaction could affect BoJo's prospects if the deal materialises and gets past the HoC.

    Does it matter? If we get out of the EU with a deal and Boris falls that's surely a double win.
    "There was me, that is Alexander Boris de Pfeffel, and my three droogs, that is Priti, Govey, and Davey D, and we sat in the Kensington Milkbar trying to make up our rassoodocks what to do with the evening. The Kensington milkbar sold milk-plus, milk plus Chlorinated Chicken or GM Soya or Corn Syrup, which is what we were drinking. This would sharpen you up and make you ready for a bit of the old ultra-Brexit!"
    Davey d also known as dim?
  • kle4kle4 Posts: 81,465

    Roger said:

    OT. Cameron is clearly a decent guy which is something you can't say for his shitty colleagues. Fascinating program though.

    Are you sure? There is a great deal of self-justification. And a touch of hypocrisy: it is disloyal for Gove to join Leave, but OK for Cameron to have sacked Gove from Education.
    Well, such is the way of leaders of course. Just look at how quickly serial rebels become angry at rebellions against them.
  • BenpointerBenpointer Posts: 23,734
    justin124 said:

    MaxPB said:

    OT How is Farage going to react to this purported deal? Does it depend on the specifics or is any deal a sell-out as far as he's concerned?

    Farage's reaction could affect BoJo's prospects if the deal materialises and gets past the HoC.

    Does it matter? If we get out of the EU with a deal and Boris falls that's surely a double win.
    As a Remainer I was nevertheless keen to see May's deal approved so, assuming Boris's 'deal' is simply May's with a bit of added fudge and waffle, I'd be ok with it.

    Still a lot of hurdles to cross though before Boris can declare a deal is done.
    Why would Labour wish to provide someone as widely despised as Johnson with support which they denied to Theresa May?
    I believe the thinking is*, if the EU have had enough of Brexit they won't offer an extension so the HoC would be faced with Deal or No Deal.


    (*I don't buy it myself but I can see the logic)
  • kle4kle4 Posts: 81,465
    Jonathan said:

    Cameron believed his own hype and screwed it up. We will pay the price for his hubris for many years to come.

    Pretty sure it took more than his hubris to lead to present events, but if that makes it easier to stomach.
  • kle4kle4 Posts: 81,465
    justin124 said:

    I am inclined to think that too much is being made of X

    Political commentary and punditry in a nutshell?
  • MaxPB said:

    Honestly, Dave said it all. The EU wouldn't give him what he wanted in the renegotiation because they thought we would never leave.

    He was the key player in all of it. He needed to walk away in the negotiation and indicate he would recommend the leave vote, having witnessed the disrespect shown to the UK and put the referendum date in May of 2017.

    He was far, far too complacent.

    The EU read him correctly, like they read May correctly. He never wanted to leave, nor did May - people like that can't do the negotiations and expect to succeed!
  • justin124 said:

    MaxPB said:

    OT How is Farage going to react to this purported deal? Does it depend on the specifics or is any deal a sell-out as far as he's concerned?

    Farage's reaction could affect BoJo's prospects if the deal materialises and gets past the HoC.

    Does it matter? If we get out of the EU with a deal and Boris falls that's surely a double win.
    As a Remainer I was nevertheless keen to see May's deal approved so, assuming Boris's 'deal' is simply May's with a bit of added fudge and waffle, I'd be ok with it.

    Still a lot of hurdles to cross though before Boris can declare a deal is done.
    Why would Labour wish to provide someone as widely despised as Johnson with support which they denied to Theresa May?
    Because the alternative may well be no deal. The mood music from the EU seems to be suggesting they think this has gone on long enough.
  • kyf_100kyf_100 Posts: 3,300
    kle4 said:

    MaxPB said:

    Honestly, Dave said it all. The EU wouldn't give him what he wanted in the renegotiation because they thought we would never leave.

    He was the key player in all of it. He needed to walk away in the negotiation and indicate he would recommend the leave vote, having witnessed the disrespect shown to the UK and put the referendum date in May of 2017.

    He was far, far too complacent.

    He is a twat.

    According to Danny Dyer

    So a thousand memes have told me, one day I must get around to googling who the amazing Mr Dyer is. Which isn't a slight on him, I've just never yet made the leap to make the effort.
    If there was any justice in this world, they would make Danny Dyer a lord.
  • kle4kle4 Posts: 81,465
    edited September 2019

    justin124 said:

    MaxPB said:

    OT How is Farage going to react to this purported deal? Does it depend on the specifics or is any deal a sell-out as far as he's concerned?

    Farage's reaction could affect BoJo's prospects if the deal materialises and gets past the HoC.

    Does it matter? If we get out of the EU with a deal and Boris falls that's surely a double win.
    As a Remainer I was nevertheless keen to see May's deal approved so, assuming Boris's 'deal' is simply May's with a bit of added fudge and waffle, I'd be ok with it.

    Still a lot of hurdles to cross though before Boris can declare a deal is done.
    Why would Labour wish to provide someone as widely despised as Johnson with support which they denied to Theresa May?
    I believe the thinking is*, if the EU have had enough of Brexit they won't offer an extension so the HoC would be faced with Deal or No Deal.


    (*I don't buy it myself but I can see the logic)
    The 'the EU will indirectly save Brexit' theory.

    I'm sure there was a thread on it at the time, probably from Mr Meeks, about how crucial the judgement that the UK had the ability to unilaterally revoke could be. It makes the path of resistance so much more tempting for starters.
  • It certainly seems that Boris will come back with a deal that may assuage the DUP and consequently the ERG.

    Remainer MPs are going to need to tread carefully if they wish to vote down another opportunity to avoid no deal.

    I suspect that if the DUP/ERG get on board then the deal will pass with the support of Labour MPs in leaver seats.
  • justin124justin124 Posts: 11,527

    justin124 said:

    MaxPB said:

    OT How is Farage going to react to this purported deal? Does it depend on the specifics or is any deal a sell-out as far as he's concerned?

    Farage's reaction could affect BoJo's prospects if the deal materialises and gets past the HoC.

    Does it matter? If we get out of the EU with a deal and Boris falls that's surely a double win.
    As a Remainer I was nevertheless keen to see May's deal approved so, assuming Boris's 'deal' is simply May's with a bit of added fudge and waffle, I'd be ok with it.

    Still a lot of hurdles to cross though before Boris can declare a deal is done.
    Why would Labour wish to provide someone as widely despised as Johnson with support which they denied to Theresa May?
    I believe the thinking is*, if the EU have had enough of Brexit they won't offer an extension so the HoC would be faced with Deal or No Deal.


    (*I don't buy it myself but I can see the logic)
    If it came to that, it would be better to table a VNOC to effectively prevent the deal being presented to Parliament. It seems unlikely that the EU would refuse an Extension to facilitate an election being held.
  • rcs1000rcs1000 Posts: 48,453
    kle4 said:

    I assume everyone is just waiting for more exciting local by-election news?

    One round my way at Ethandune - must be an unlucky seat, it's the second time they've had a by-election caused by death of an incumbent in just 5 years.

    Ah, the Ethandune Councillor Serial Killer striked again, eh.
  • kle4kle4 Posts: 81,465

    MaxPB said:

    Honestly, Dave said it all. The EU wouldn't give him what he wanted in the renegotiation because they thought we would never leave.

    He was the key player in all of it. He needed to walk away in the negotiation and indicate he would recommend the leave vote, having witnessed the disrespect shown to the UK and put the referendum date in May of 2017.

    He was far, far too complacent.

    The EU read him correctly, like they read May correctly. He never wanted to leave, nor did May - people like that can't do the negotiations and expect to succeed!
    Doesn't bode well for Boris then! He wants to leave now, he needs it, and decided to a few minutes before the referendum, but that's not exactly a true believer.
  • OT How is Farage going to react to this purported deal? Does it depend on the specifics or is any deal a sell-out as far as he's concerned?

    Farage's reaction could affect BoJo's prospects if the deal materialises and gets past the HoC.

    Farage is an irrelevance once Brexit is done.
  • kle4kle4 Posts: 81,465
    rcs1000 said:

    kle4 said:

    I assume everyone is just waiting for more exciting local by-election news?

    One round my way at Ethandune - must be an unlucky seat, it's the second time they've had a by-election caused by death of an incumbent in just 5 years.

    Ah, the Ethandune Councillor Serial Killer striked again, eh.
    I think that was a Midsomer Murders episode.
  • JonathanJonathan Posts: 19,604
    kle4 said:

    Jonathan said:

    Cameron believed his own hype and screwed it up. We will pay the price for his hubris for many years to come.

    Pretty sure it took more than his hubris to lead to present events, but if that makes it easier to stomach.
    He created a referendum for party reasons to hold the right vote in 2015. The majority in won off the back of that then went to his head and he thought he could charm the EU and electorate. He let the genie out of the bottle and couldn’t control it. Yes, he carries much of the blame here.

    And if you disagree with that, at the very least as PM he bares the responsibility.
  • rcs1000rcs1000 Posts: 48,453

    MaxPB said:

    OT How is Farage going to react to this purported deal? Does it depend on the specifics or is any deal a sell-out as far as he's concerned?

    Farage's reaction could affect BoJo's prospects if the deal materialises and gets past the HoC.

    Does it matter? If we get out of the EU with a deal and Boris falls that's surely a double win.
    As a Remainer I was nevertheless keen to see May's deal approved so, assuming Boris's 'deal' is simply May's with a bit of added fudge and waffle, I'd be ok with it.

    Still a lot of hurdles to cross though before Boris can declare a deal is done.
    My current fear is that he gets something back that is May Plus Minus. (Minus the Worst of the Backstop, Plus Muck, like Brass with Muck Muck.)

    He declares victory.

    But Francois, Baker and the like don't like the existence of the backstop at all.

    And he now has a majority of minus forty-odd.

    And he needs to persuade the former Conservative MPs to vote for the deal. (A group who have no great love for Boris.)

    So... what happens next?
  • JonathanJonathan Posts: 19,604

    OT How is Farage going to react to this purported deal? Does it depend on the specifics or is any deal a sell-out as far as he's concerned?

    Farage's reaction could affect BoJo's prospects if the deal materialises and gets past the HoC.

    Farage is an irrelevance once Brexit is done.
    Nope. The populist right always find someone or something new to blame. If the economy suffers, Farage will be blaming the government and the E.U.
  • kle4kle4 Posts: 81,465
    Jonathan said:

    kle4 said:

    Jonathan said:

    Cameron believed his own hype and screwed it up. We will pay the price for his hubris for many years to come.

    Pretty sure it took more than his hubris to lead to present events, but if that makes it easier to stomach.
    He created a referendum for party reasons to hold the right vote in 2015. The majority in won off the back of that then went to his head and he thought he could charm the EU and electorate. He let the genie out of the bottle and couldn’t control it. Yes, he carries much of the blame here.

    And if you disagree with that, at the very least as PM he bares the responsibility.
    I don't disagree that he bears plenty of responsibility for opening the door, but I think some people take it too far and act like that's the same as being responsible for the British people taking that opportunity to walk through that door, even when he and lots of others told us not to. It's anger at him for certain things, yes, but an awful lot of it to me looks like anger at the result and the people who voted that way, translated onto him, when his biggest failure was being inadequate to the task.
  • BenpointerBenpointer Posts: 23,734
    edited September 2019

    OT How is Farage going to react to this purported deal? Does it depend on the specifics or is any deal a sell-out as far as he's concerned?

    Farage's reaction could affect BoJo's prospects if the deal materialises and gets past the HoC.

    Farage is an irrelevance once Brexit is done.
    Well, that would be a plus, I guess.

    Totally unrelated, I've just watched the first part of the BBC's Rise of the Nazis; bloody hell that's scary.
  • TGOHFTGOHF Posts: 21,633

    It certainly seems that Boris will come back with a deal that may assuage the DUP and consequently the ERG.

    Remainer MPs are going to need to tread carefully if they wish to vote down another opportunity to avoid no deal.

    I suspect that if the DUP/ERG get on board then the deal will pass with the support of Labour MPs in leaver seats.

    Do remainers go for broke and try and gamble on stopping Brexit and end up with no deal ?

    Heart of stone.
  • kle4kle4 Posts: 81,465

    OT How is Farage going to react to this purported deal? Does it depend on the specifics or is any deal a sell-out as far as he's concerned?

    Farage's reaction could affect BoJo's prospects if the deal materialises and gets past the HoC.

    Farage is an irrelevance once Brexit is done.
    Maybe. You are confident he won't hamstring the Tories, and in the event of an actual deal I think that's much more likely than in the event of no deal agreed but an extension to kick the can, but he seems a very petty kind of man, he could still do some damage.
  • rcs1000rcs1000 Posts: 48,453
    kle4 said:

    rcs1000 said:

    kle4 said:

    I assume everyone is just waiting for more exciting local by-election news?

    One round my way at Ethandune - must be an unlucky seat, it's the second time they've had a by-election caused by death of an incumbent in just 5 years.

    Ah, the Ethandune Councillor Serial Killer striked again, eh.
    I think that was a Midsomer Murders episode.
    You don't know your acting career is over until you star in a Midsomer Murders episode.
  • Jonathan said:



    Nope. The populist right always find someone or something new to blame. If the economy suffers, Farage will be blaming the government and the E.U.

    There will a rich seam to be mined for the Tories in the future with the EU playing bogeyman and needing a strong government to protect the UK's interests.

    It is almost in the Tories interests for the post-exit negotiations to be long, tortuous and annoying because there will be little mileage in being seen as weak supplicants which is the role Labour will almost certainly fall in to.

  • The_TaxmanThe_Taxman Posts: 2,979
    Jonathan said:

    kle4 said:

    Jonathan said:

    Cameron believed his own hype and screwed it up. We will pay the price for his hubris for many years to come.

    Pretty sure it took more than his hubris to lead to present events, but if that makes it easier to stomach.
    He created a referendum for party reasons to hold the right vote in 2015. The majority in won off the back of that then went to his head and he thought he could charm the EU and electorate. He let the genie out of the bottle and couldn’t control it. Yes, he carries much of the blame here.

    And if you disagree with that, at the very least as PM he bares the responsibility.
    +1. He tried his best to spin his way out of it in the program but he was the one who decided to offer an in - out vote. The responsibility lies at his door. He actually managed to turn a bad inheritance i(2010) into a catostrophy!
  • rcs1000 said:

    MaxPB said:

    OT How is Farage going to react to this purported deal? Does it depend on the specifics or is any deal a sell-out as far as he's concerned?

    Farage's reaction could affect BoJo's prospects if the deal materialises and gets past the HoC.

    Does it matter? If we get out of the EU with a deal and Boris falls that's surely a double win.
    As a Remainer I was nevertheless keen to see May's deal approved so, assuming Boris's 'deal' is simply May's with a bit of added fudge and waffle, I'd be ok with it.

    Still a lot of hurdles to cross though before Boris can declare a deal is done.
    My current fear is that he gets something back that is May Plus Minus. (Minus the Worst of the Backstop, Plus Muck, like Brass with Muck Muck.)

    He declares victory.

    But Francois, Baker and the like don't like the existence of the backstop at all.

    And he now has a majority of minus forty-odd.

    And he needs to persuade the former Conservative MPs to vote for the deal. (A group who have no great love for Boris.)

    So... what happens next?
    Call him Mr. Raider, call him Mr. Wrong, call him Mr. Vain.
  • OT How is Farage going to react to this purported deal? Does it depend on the specifics or is any deal a sell-out as far as he's concerned?

    Farage's reaction could affect BoJo's prospects if the deal materialises and gets past the HoC.

    Farage is an irrelevance once Brexit is done.
    Well, that would be a plus, I guess.

    Totally unrelated, I've just watched the first part of the BBC's Rise of the Nazis; bloody hell that's scary.
    I've been disappointed with it - nowhere near as forensic or compelling as The Nazis: A Warning from History from 15+ years ago. Some really unconvincing 'experts' - particularly in episode 2.
  • rcs1000 said:

    MaxPB said:

    OT How is Farage going to react to this purported deal? Does it depend on the specifics or is any deal a sell-out as far as he's concerned?

    Farage's reaction could affect BoJo's prospects if the deal materialises and gets past the HoC.

    Does it matter? If we get out of the EU with a deal and Boris falls that's surely a double win.
    As a Remainer I was nevertheless keen to see May's deal approved so, assuming Boris's 'deal' is simply May's with a bit of added fudge and waffle, I'd be ok with it.

    Still a lot of hurdles to cross though before Boris can declare a deal is done.
    My current fear is that he gets something back that is May Plus Minus. (Minus the Worst of the Backstop, Plus Muck, like Brass with Muck Muck.)

    He declares victory.

    But Francois, Baker and the like don't like the existence of the backstop at all.

    And he now has a majority of minus forty-odd.

    And he needs to persuade the former Conservative MPs to vote for the deal. (A group who have no great love for Boris.)

    So... what happens next?
    Call him Mr. Raider, call him Mr. Wrong, call him Mr. Vain.
  • glwglw Posts: 8,788
    That's an amazingly stupid and ignorant statement.

    He might like to read up on the Khmer Rouge to see how extremely left-wing movements can be nationalist and racist.
  • AndyJSAndyJS Posts: 29,395
    "A council wants to change its name at a cost of £10,000 because no-one knows where it is or how to pronounce it, it says.

    Suffolk's Babergh District Council - pronounced "Bay-ber" - takes its name from the Anglo-Saxon place name Barberga and has existed since 1974.

    The district was first listed in the Domesday Book in 1086."

    https://www.bbc.co.uk/news/uk-england-suffolk-49754360
  • If most EU countries want us gone now, then that presents a big problem for rejoiners if we do leave. The 27 are not going to want to go through this rigmarole again, so if we want back in, there'll have to be confident we'd stay in for good. Even the Lib Dems winning a GE on an explicit rejoin policy might not be enough, if the country is still divided on the issue. So, we basically go back to what our relationship with Europe was in the 60's. Begging to be let in, but constantly being refused.
  • isam said:
    I have read this a few times and I just do not have the mental flexibility to process his reasoning.

    It is amazing.

  • Seems to be a grudging resolve to get this done now.
  • glw said:

    That's an amazingly stupid and ignorant statement.

    He might like to read up on the Khmer Rouge to see how extremely left-wing movements can be nationalist and racist.
    Stalin deported entire ethnic groups during WW2.
  • bigjohnowlsbigjohnowls Posts: 19,569

    Seems to be a grudging resolve to get this done now.

    Let's hope so.
  • viewcodeviewcode Posts: 11,948

    Jonathan said:



    Nope. The populist right always find someone or something new to blame. If the economy suffers, Farage will be blaming the government and the E.U.

    There will a rich seam to be mined for the Tories in the future with the EU playing bogeyman and needing a strong government to protect the UK's interests.

    It is almost in the Tories interests for the post-exit negotiations to be long, tortuous and annoying because there will be little mileage in being seen as weak supplicants which is the role Labour will almost certainly fall in to.

    Indeed. The Conservatives have eked out so much mileage from "failing and blaming", it's almost like it's a deliberate policy. If only somebody had raised such a point before... :)
  • CyclefreeCyclefree Posts: 23,154

    OT How is Farage going to react to this purported deal? Does it depend on the specifics or is any deal a sell-out as far as he's concerned?

    Farage's reaction could affect BoJo's prospects if the deal materialises and gets past the HoC.

    Farage is an irrelevance once Brexit is done.
    Well, that would be a plus, I guess.

    Totally unrelated, I've just watched the first part of the BBC's Rise of the Nazis; bloody hell that's scary.
    I've been disappointed with it - nowhere near as forensic or compelling as The Nazis: A Warning from History from 15+ years ago. Some really unconvincing 'experts' - particularly in episode 2.
    I don’t see what the need for it is. Just show the very much better earlier programme again.
  • OT How is Farage going to react to this purported deal? Does it depend on the specifics or is any deal a sell-out as far as he's concerned?

    Farage's reaction could affect BoJo's prospects if the deal materialises and gets past the HoC.

    Farage is an irrelevance once Brexit is done.
    Well, that would be a plus, I guess.

    Totally unrelated, I've just watched the first part of the BBC's Rise of the Nazis; bloody hell that's scary.
    I've been disappointed with it - nowhere near as forensic or compelling as The Nazis: A Warning from History from 15+ years ago. Some really unconvincing 'experts' - particularly in episode 2.
    The Tories: A Warning from History.

    Episode 1: 2010 - Helped Into Power.
  • MaxPBMaxPB Posts: 36,204

    Seems to be a grudging resolve to get this done now.

    One can only hope.
  • glwglw Posts: 8,788

    glw said:

    That's an amazingly stupid and ignorant statement.

    He might like to read up on the Khmer Rouge to see how extremely left-wing movements can be nationalist and racist.
    Stalin deported entire ethnic groups during WW2.
    Sure there are lots of examples of left wing racism/nationalism and "exclusionary policy".

    I mentioned the Khmer Rouge because they were about as far-left and as racist/nationalist as it is possible to be. They are the canonical example of Communism taken to its extreme.
  • CyclefreeCyclefree Posts: 23,154
    If it’s true that the EU now wants us out - and I am not convinced - what happens if the government does ask for an extension either for a referendum or a GE? Would it really refuse?

    I still think a disorderly withdrawal is the most likely outcome. What happens after that is anyone’s guess.
  • viewcodeviewcode Posts: 11,948

    glw said:

    That's an amazingly stupid and ignorant statement.

    He might like to read up on the Khmer Rouge to see how extremely left-wing movements can be nationalist and racist.
    Stalin deported entire ethnic groups during WW2.
    https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Cultural_Revolution
    https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Cambodian_genocide
  • FrancisUrquhartFrancisUrquhart Posts: 72,937
    edited September 2019
    Canada's Justin Trudeau cannot say how often he wore blackface

    Canada's PM Justin Trudeau has said he cannot remember how often he wore blackface as a younger man, as a scandal deepened ahead of an election.

    https://www.bbc.com/news/world-us-canada-49763805

    Just how often did he go to fancy dress parties like that? Was it when he was stuck for an outfit, he went you know what always goes down a storm...

    I know I have worn blackface exactly zero times.
  • Cyclefree said:

    OT How is Farage going to react to this purported deal? Does it depend on the specifics or is any deal a sell-out as far as he's concerned?

    Farage's reaction could affect BoJo's prospects if the deal materialises and gets past the HoC.

    Farage is an irrelevance once Brexit is done.
    Well, that would be a plus, I guess.

    Totally unrelated, I've just watched the first part of the BBC's Rise of the Nazis; bloody hell that's scary.
    I've been disappointed with it - nowhere near as forensic or compelling as The Nazis: A Warning from History from 15+ years ago. Some really unconvincing 'experts' - particularly in episode 2.
    I don’t see what the need for it is. Just show the very much better earlier programme again.
    Couldn't agree more. The drama-documentary style presentation really adds nothing.
  • FloaterFloater Posts: 14,195

    isam said:
    I have read this a few times and I just do not have the mental flexibility to process his reasoning.

    It is amazing.

    The left always have pure motives - even when starving millions to death.
  • MaxPBMaxPB Posts: 36,204
    glw said:

    glw said:

    That's an amazingly stupid and ignorant statement.

    He might like to read up on the Khmer Rouge to see how extremely left-wing movements can be nationalist and racist.
    Stalin deported entire ethnic groups during WW2.
    Sure there are lots of examples of left wing racism/nationalism and "exclusionary policy".

    I mentioned the Khmer Rouge because they were about as far-left and as racist/nationalist as it is possible to be. They are the canonical example of Communism taken to its extreme.
    Well Germany had a fairly famous national socialist party.
  • kle4kle4 Posts: 81,465
    Cyclefree said:

    If it’s true that the EU now wants us out - and I am not convinced - what happens if the government does ask for an extension either for a referendum or a GE? Would it really refuse?

    I still think a disorderly withdrawal is the most likely outcome. What happens after that is anyone’s guess.

    I'm not convinced either, not least because some people have said the EU has wanted us out and cannot wait for it ever since the vote, but the actions of the EU do not seem to bear that out, especially when plenty of others talk about them leaving the door open for us.

    If they do want us out, and don't want to be (credibly)( blamed through not accepting a request for extension, then marqueemark's plan of a short extension with a firm commitment of nothing more is the way to go. Time for a GE or referendum keeps the debate boiling over, and opens up remain as an option. A very short extension says 'fine, you still haven't made up your mind, so no we will make you do make up your mind' and you get the deal or no deal parliamentary decision May and Boris would dearly love, or else the remainer majority go mass LD and revoke.
  • Cyclefree said:

    If it’s true that the EU now wants us out - and I am not convinced - what happens if the government does ask for an extension either for a referendum or a GE? Would it really refuse?

    I still think a disorderly withdrawal is the most likely outcome. What happens after that is anyone’s guess.

    If the EU/UK agree a revised deal, with an explicit warning of no extensions, then it is probably the endgame.

    Even without the rider of no extension being available parliament will be hard pressed to justify refusing to vote the deal through.

    DUP+ERG+Tories+Labour MPs from leave seats+odds and sods...should be just about there.
  • isamisam Posts: 38,638
    edited September 2019
    Incredible isn’t it? Absolutely clueless. They are convinced of their moral superiority, and Femi is a poster boy for this kind of deluded lunacy.

  • viewcode said:

    glw said:

    That's an amazingly stupid and ignorant statement.

    He might like to read up on the Khmer Rouge to see how extremely left-wing movements can be nationalist and racist.
    Stalin deported entire ethnic groups during WW2.
    https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Cultural_Revolution
    https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Cambodian_genocide
    https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Deportation_of_the_Crimean_Tatars
    https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Deportation_of_the_Kalmyks
  • Floater said:

    isam said:
    I have read this a few times and I just do not have the mental flexibility to process his reasoning.

    It is amazing.

    The left always have pure motives - even when starving millions to death.

    I messed up the original quoting but i'm not sure I wrote that about the left's motives.
  • glwglw Posts: 8,788
    isam said:

    Incredible isn’t it? Absolutely clueless. They are convinced of their moral superiority, and Femi is a poster boy for this kind of deluded lunacy.

    It is by far the most ignorant thing I have read in quite a while, and I closely follow what Trump is up to.

    And he's a law graduate!
  • Philip_ThompsonPhilip_Thompson Posts: 65,826
    edited September 2019

    Cyclefree said:

    If it’s true that the EU now wants us out - and I am not convinced - what happens if the government does ask for an extension either for a referendum or a GE? Would it really refuse?

    I still think a disorderly withdrawal is the most likely outcome. What happens after that is anyone’s guess.

    If the EU/UK agree a revised deal, with an explicit warning of no extensions, then it is probably the endgame.

    Even without the rider of no extension being available parliament will be hard pressed to justify refusing to vote the deal through.

    DUP+ERG+Tories+Labour MPs from leave seats+odds and sods...should be just about there.
    The big if is whether the EU and UK can reach a new deal, but its looking increasingly likely. Seems everyone just wants this over and done with and prior talk about the WDA being "unable to be reopened" has been totally dropped now. Now the question is not whether there will be renegotiations but whether the renegotiations succeed.

    If they do, then I see no reason in these circumstances why someone like Macron won't say "its this or nothing, no more extensions". Its in their interests and its in the UK government's interests and if Parliament doesn't like it . . . well sucks for them. That's part of being in a union of 28 nations, Parliament won't always get its way when unanimity of 28 is needed. Ironic, eh?
  • Andy_JSAndy_JS Posts: 20,044
    edited September 2019

    Canada's Justin Trudeau cannot say how often he wore blackface

    Canada's PM Justin Trudeau has said he cannot remember how often he wore blackface as a younger man, as a scandal deepened ahead of an election.

    https://www.bbc.com/news/world-us-canada-49763805

    Just how often did he go to fancy dress parties like that? Was it when he was stuck for an outfit, he went you know what always goes down a storm...

    I know I have worn blackface exactly zero times.

    I don't think there's much chance of him winning a majority now. Previously there was a small possibility, about 15% to 20%.
  • Cyclefree said:

    If it’s true that the EU now wants us out - and I am not convinced - what happens if the government does ask for an extension either for a referendum or a GE? Would it really refuse?

    I still think a disorderly withdrawal is the most likely outcome. What happens after that is anyone’s guess.

    If the EU/UK agree a revised deal, with an explicit warning of no extensions, then it is probably the endgame.

    Even without the rider of no extension being available parliament will be hard pressed to justify refusing to vote the deal through.

    DUP+ERG+Tories+Labour MPs from leave seats+odds and sods...should be just about there.
    If no extension is available, and therefore voting down the deal means leaving with no deal, why do the ERG vote Yes to a deal?
  • viewcodeviewcode Posts: 11,948
    MaxPB said:

    glw said:

    glw said:

    That's an amazingly stupid and ignorant statement.

    He might like to read up on the Khmer Rouge to see how extremely left-wing movements can be nationalist and racist.
    Stalin deported entire ethnic groups during WW2.
    Sure there are lots of examples of left wing racism/nationalism and "exclusionary policy".

    I mentioned the Khmer Rouge because they were about as far-left and as racist/nationalist as it is possible to be. They are the canonical example of Communism taken to its extreme.
    Well Germany had a fairly famous national socialist party.
    There are several things that depress me about the 2010's. It's a long list (...#37: People claiming "Star Trek:TMP" is a misunderstood classic. #38 Face tattoos, #39 "Thanks" instead of "please", #40...), and one of them is the proposition that the Nazis were socialist.

    So. Go to your room and write out 100 times "the differences regarding property ownership and the militarisation of society are sufficient to regard Naziism as a subset of 20th century fascism rather than socialist". And don't come down until you have understood what you have done.
  • viewcodeviewcode Posts: 11,948
    glw said:

    isam said:

    Incredible isn’t it? Absolutely clueless. They are convinced of their moral superiority, and Femi is a poster boy for this kind of deluded lunacy.

    It is by far the most ignorant thing I have read in quite a while, and I closely follow what Trump is up to.

    And he's a law graduate!
    There are depths of stupidity that ordinary people cannot reach. It takes somebody really clever and working really hard to become that dumb. He should be congratulated. Albeit from a distance... :)
  • viewcodeviewcode Posts: 11,948
    Incidentally, GBP had another good day today: the Fed cut interest rates, as did the ECB last week. Is the Bank of England planning something similar?
  • dyedwooliedyedwoolie Posts: 7,786
    First by election of the night has labour down 17 in liverpool, libs and LDs up and Tories up fractionally but under 5%. Consistent with other results recently
  • ByronicByronic Posts: 3,578
    viewcode said:

    MaxPB said:

    glw said:

    glw said:

    That's an amazingly stupid and ignorant statement.

    He might like to read up on the Khmer Rouge to see how extremely left-wing movements can be nationalist and racist.
    Stalin deported entire ethnic groups during WW2.
    Sure there are lots of examples of left wing racism/nationalism and "exclusionary policy".

    I mentioned the Khmer Rouge because they were about as far-left and as racist/nationalist as it is possible to be. They are the canonical example of Communism taken to its extreme.
    Well Germany had a fairly famous national socialist party.
    There are several things that depress me about the 2010's. It's a long list (...#37: People claiming "Star Trek:TMP" is a misunderstood classic. #38 Face tattoos, #39 "Thanks" instead of "please", #40...), and one of them is the proposition that the Nazis were socialist.

    So. Go to your room and write out 100 times "the differences regarding property ownership and the militarisation of society are sufficient to regard Naziism as a subset of 20th century fascism rather than socialist". And don't come down until you have understood what you have done.
    Nazi Germany was quite keen on state directed capitalism. Hitler hated the free market, because it was run by Americans and Brits, ruled secretly by Jews.

    Nazism was a weird hybrid of socialist principles, rabid nationalism, quasi-religiose militarism and oodles of racism.
  • williamglennwilliamglenn Posts: 42,977
    edited September 2019
    https://edition.cnn.com/2019/09/19/business/tadashi-yanai-fast-retailing-uniqlo/index.html

    Japan's richest man has warned that Brexit is "practically impossible" and could take the United Kingdom back to the economic stagnation of the 1970s when the country was often described as the "sick man of Europe."

    "I think Brexit is practically impossible because the old borders will be shaky and the UK has a Northern Ireland issue and a Scotland issue," Yanai told CNN Business. "Therefore, I think Brexit is difficult to realize even if the UK wants to do it."

    "If Brexit does happen, the UK could revert back to the former situation before the Margaret Thatcher era, when the UK was referred to as the sick man of Europe. I'm afraid that could happen again."
  • TGOHFTGOHF Posts: 21,633

    Cyclefree said:

    If it’s true that the EU now wants us out - and I am not convinced - what happens if the government does ask for an extension either for a referendum or a GE? Would it really refuse?

    I still think a disorderly withdrawal is the most likely outcome. What happens after that is anyone’s guess.

    If the EU/UK agree a revised deal, with an explicit warning of no extensions, then it is probably the endgame.

    Even without the rider of no extension being available parliament will be hard pressed to justify refusing to vote the deal through.

    DUP+ERG+Tories+Labour MPs from leave seats+odds and sods...should be just about there.
    If no extension is available, and therefore voting down the deal means leaving with no deal, why do the ERG vote Yes to a deal?
    Surely Labour vote for it as they are against no deal ....
  • TheWhiteRabbitTheWhiteRabbit Posts: 12,321
    edited September 2019
    AndyJS said:

    "A council wants to change its name at a cost of £10,000 because no-one knows where it is or how to pronounce it, it says.

    Suffolk's Babergh District Council - pronounced "Bay-ber" - takes its name from the Anglo-Saxon place name Barberga and has existed since 1974.

    The district was first listed in the Domesday Book in 1086."

    https://www.bbc.co.uk/news/uk-england-suffolk-49754360

    I think they are lining up for mergers, as with St Edmundsbury (now West Suffolk) and Waveney (now East Suffolk)
  • GallowgateGallowgate Posts: 18,591

    https://edition.cnn.com/2019/09/19/business/tadashi-yanai-fast-retailing-uniqlo/index.html

    Japan's richest man has warned that Brexit is "practically impossible" and could take the United Kingdom back to the economic stagnation of the 1970s when the country was often described as the "sick man of Europe."

    I do love Uniqlo.
  • IanB2IanB2 Posts: 42,807
    HYUFD said:

    Yes, Warren I think is the likely Democratic nominee now and I think Trump would prefer to face her than Biden

    I’d agree. The Democrats are desperate to get rid of Trump and are going to go for a mainstream experienced candidate. That’s all the talk on NPR.

    Meanwhile right wing talk radio is a revelation. The only talk radio stations I can get in the car up here in the Black Hills are two utterly loopy Christian stations and a local one that is one of many that syndicates the Mike Gallagher show, apparently one of the most popular talk show hosts in the US. It was remarkable that most of the talk was his - audience participation was limited to a voicemail facility; if he liked the message he would play an excerpt on air, but no risk of a live conversation.

    To give you a flavour, yesterday for an hour and a half:

    - “Democrats are coming for your guns”, repeated over and over. The clip of Beto from the debates must have been played at least four times;

    - A report of a homeowner who had three masked armed youths break into his house, and took all of them out with his semi automatic weapon. So Democrats are siding with the masked youths...;

    - Democrats are trying to stop Trump’s wall because apparently it disturbs some thousands-of-years-old Native American archaeological sites. Much mirth about how listeners could go on with their lives if these remains are disturbed;

    - selected excerpts from the senate hearings, praising Trump’s staff for stonewalling the process and accusing Democrats of wasting time and money on an anti-Trump vendetta;

    - lots of charity appeals for the families of dead veterans and police officers;

    - repeated appeals to back Trump as the only guy in Washington fighting for the little guy against the evil Democrats and DC machine;

    All interspersed with advertising for various dodgy sounding companies that are funding the show. Such as a firm making Christian jigsaw puzzles and that will, for a significant monthly sum, send you a box of religious blessings every month. And another called ‘medishare’ that was pitched as a club where you all pay in and those who get seriously ill get their medical bills paid (I was unclear how this differed from PHI but the sales pitch was imaginative).

    All delivered in a James Whale-style over-the-top superhyped bravado.

    The worrying thing is that it was quite addictive listening, despite all the palpable nonsense
  • sladeslade Posts: 1,617
    Surely it's time for Steve Radford to give up his fruitless fight to be the true voice of Liberalism?
  • kle4kle4 Posts: 81,465
    edited September 2019

    First by election of the night has labour down 17 in liverpool, libs and LDs up and Tories up fractionally but under 5%. Consistent with other results recently

    I remember after the exit poll in 2017 some people held out for a time that it could not be the case because the first results to come in from some of the Labour northern heartlands were not that great. We had the same thing this year in the locals as the Tories were doing ok in a number of areas in the first few hours.

    In an area as dominated by one party in recent times as that I don't know what we can really learn even when it does align with recent results generally.

    Interesting to see the Liberals standing.
  • Labour hold Thorniewood in North Lanarkshire

    https://twitter.com/scottlamond1/status/1174809813198495744?s=20
  • AndreaParma_82AndreaParma_82 Posts: 4,681
    edited September 2019
    Labour trigger ballots update

    Barbara Keeley reselected in Worsley and Eccles South

    Dan Carden reselected in Liverpool Walton

    Richard Burgon reselected in Leeds East. 112 voted for reselection, 1 abstained

    Lucy Powell survived in Manchester Central

    Marsha de Cordova reselected in Battarsea
  • https://edition.cnn.com/2019/09/19/business/tadashi-yanai-fast-retailing-uniqlo/index.html

    Japan's richest man has warned that Brexit is "practically impossible" and could take the United Kingdom back to the economic stagnation of the 1970s when the country was often described as the "sick man of Europe."

    "I think Brexit is practically impossible because the old borders will be shaky and the UK has a Northern Ireland issue and a Scotland issue," Yanai told CNN Business. "Therefore, I think Brexit is difficult to realize even if the UK wants to do it."

    "If Brexit does happen, the UK could revert back to the former situation before the Margaret Thatcher era, when the UK was referred to as the sick man of Europe. I'm afraid that could happen again."

    Would that be the economic stagnation after we joined the EEC?
  • IanB2IanB2 Posts: 42,807
    Byronic said:

    viewcode said:

    MaxPB said:

    glw said:

    glw said:

    That's an amazingly stupid and ignorant statement.

    He might like to read up on the Khmer Rouge to see how extremely left-wing movements can be nationalist and racist.
    Stalin deported entire ethnic groups during WW2.
    Sure there are lots of examples of left wing racism/nationalism and "exclusionary policy".

    I mentioned the Khmer Rouge because they were about as far-left and as racist/nationalist as it is possible to be. They are the canonical example of Communism taken to its extreme.
    Well Germany had a fairly famous national socialist party.
    There are several things that depress me about the 2010's. It's a long list (...#37: People claiming "Star Trek:TMP" is a misunderstood classic. #38 Face tattoos, #39 "Thanks" instead of "please", #40...), and one of them is the proposition that the Nazis were socialist.

    So. Go to your room and write out 100 times "the differences regarding property ownership and the militarisation of society are sufficient to regard Naziism as a subset of 20th century fascism rather than socialist". And don't come down until you have understood what you have done.
    Nazi Germany was quite keen on state directed capitalism. Hitler hated the free market, because it was run by Americans and Brits, ruled secretly by Jews.

    Nazism was a weird hybrid of socialist principles, rabid nationalism, quasi-religiose militarism and oodles of racism.
    The party was in bed with a bunch of oligarchs who were running the economy; nothing socialist about that. Arguably Putin has jumped Russia from socialism to proto-fascism (of the pre-Hitler era; think Franco or Mussolini) with only the briefest flirtation with quasi-democracy in between.
This discussion has been closed.