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politicalbetting.com » Blog Archive » The next general election vote shares by party betting

SystemSystem Posts: 12,171
edited September 2019 in General

imagepoliticalbetting.com » Blog Archive » The next general election vote shares by party betting

Ladbrokes have markets on the GB vote shares for the Tories, Labour, and Lib Dems at the next general election. I’m sitting out this market for the time being for a variety of reasons mainly to do, but not exclusively, with

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Comments

  • First?
  • I haven't played with this particular market, but do have small sums on Labour for a majority (hoping to trade) and the Conservatives to get under 315 seats.

    I think the SNP will do well but have an obvious ceiling on success, and the Lib Dems and Greens will see their vote shares rise. Tricky to call beyond that, I think.
  • GallowgateGallowgate Posts: 19,468
    I’m going to Hartlepool on Sunday. I will report back... 🙄
  • HYUFDHYUFD Posts: 123,151
    With the LDs well up on 2017 in the polls and the rise of the Brexit Party, the Tories on 30 to 40% and Labour on 20 to 30% look the likeliest options.

    That would be the lowest combined share for the two main parties since 1918
  • NigelbNigelb Posts: 71,236

    I haven't played with this particular market, but do have small sums on Labour for a majority (hoping to trade) and the Conservatives to get under 315 seats.

    I think the SNP will do well but have an obvious ceiling on success, and the Lib Dems and Greens will see their vote shares rise. Tricky to call beyond that, I think.

    The Lab majority tip a week or so back was good value at the time.
    Nothing stands out here for me, either.
  • 5/2 on the Conservatives being in the 20-30% band looks good. They’re not much above that now and the gilt is rapidly coming off the gingerbread.
  • TheJezziahTheJezziah Posts: 3,840
    Not really a gambler myself but I wonder if the Conservatives have a bad few weeks coming up which could affect the odds.
  • HYUFDHYUFD Posts: 123,151

    I’m going to Hartlepool on Sunday. I will report back... 🙄

    A likely Brexit Party target
  • Mr. Meeks, possibly but I'd want to check there wasn't more value with a BP type bet, as I think they're likely to benefit if the Conservatives fall below 30%.
  • MarqueeMarkMarqueeMark Posts: 52,616
    Once Boris gets a deal through the House, go for the 40%-50% band
  • https://twitter.com/leobarasi/status/1172397804745940996?s=20

    Which is why SindyRef2 can’t be a rerun of SindyRef1.....
  • FF43FF43 Posts: 17,208

    I’m going to Hartlepool on Sunday. I will report back... 🙄

    Interesting maritime museum with Napoleon era frigate and 18th C harbour buildings. The headland makes a really nice walk. Beautiful old church. Hartlepool should be on everyone's tourism route.
  • Casino_RoyaleCasino_Royale Posts: 60,491
    edited September 2019
    Interestingly, a bet I placed with Ladbrokes for entirely different reasons well over two years ago - that the UK would still be in the EU by 1st January 2020 - might shortly come to fruition.
  • FF43FF43 Posts: 17,208

    Interestingly, a bet I placed with Ladbrokes for entirely different reasons well over two years ago - that the UK would still be in the EU by 1st January 2020 - might shortly come to fruition.

    A decent prospect now certainly. What odds did you get for that?
  • HYUFDHYUFD Posts: 123,151
    edited September 2019

    https://twitter.com/leobarasi/status/1172397804745940996?s=20

    Which is why SindyRef2 can’t be a rerun of SindyRef1.....

    49% of voters oppose a further 3 months extension to Brexit, to just 29% that agree. By 54% to 25% voters think the Leave vote should be respected.

    Voters also prefer staying in the EU, leaving with a Deal or leaving with No Deal to Jeremy Corbyn as PM
  • FF43 said:

    Interestingly, a bet I placed with Ladbrokes for entirely different reasons well over two years ago - that the UK would still be in the EU by 1st January 2020 - might shortly come to fruition.

    A decent prospect now certainly. What odds did you get for that?
    Can’t remember. On a spreadsheet at home. But it was something like 5/2, I think.
  • tlg86tlg86 Posts: 26,176
    If I was forced to play I would say the value is on Labour getting 30-40%.
  • MarqueeMarkMarqueeMark Posts: 52,616
    FF43 said:

    I’m going to Hartlepool on Sunday. I will report back... 🙄

    Interesting maritime museum with Napoleon era frigate and 18th C harbour buildings. The headland makes a really nice walk. Beautiful old church. Hartlepool should be on everyone's tourism route.
    The Headland has the distinction of being the only battle of WW1 fought on British soil. German warships rained over a thousand shells on it, with fire returned from land batteries.
  • MarqueeMarkMarqueeMark Posts: 52,616
    HYUFD said:
    Marking four years of Labour being out of power with Jeremy Corbyn.....
  • CharlesCharles Posts: 35,758

    I’m going to Hartlepool on Sunday. I will report back... 🙄

    Go to the museum if you can. They have a great collection of Dutch paintings
  • FoxyFoxy Posts: 48,724
    Con under 20% worth a punt at 18/1 with odds boost. It was a good bet at the Euros and there are several scenarios where that sort of collapse is replicated, including both Deal and No Deal.

    Similarly, LD on 30-40% at 20/1 is better value than LD most seats at 16/1, though I did get 500/1 on the latter after the 2017 GE.
  • NickPalmerNickPalmer Posts: 21,534
    Con under 30 looks the best odds there but as TSE says it's essentially a shot in the dark.
  • JonathanJonathan Posts: 21,675
    In 2017 folks here could not predict the result accurately even after the accurate exit poll. What chance now?

    Those peddling certainty now are either fools, spinning for their party or more likely both.
  • nichomarnichomar Posts: 7,483
    Just finished mopping out house as water poured in under bedroom patio doors as it couldn’t escape off terrace quick enough. About five inches in 12 hours and still raining. It is worse in other areas a lot worse and life threatening.
  • HYUFDHYUFD Posts: 123,151
    edited September 2019

    HYUFD said:
    Marking four years of Labour being out of power with Jeremy Corbyn.....
    Clearly also a not so subtle bid from Burgon to shore up his support in the Labour membership and run for Labour leader if Corbyn loses the next general election and resigns
  • Con 20-30 and Lab 30-40 look underpriced. LD 10-20 seems so overwhelmingly likely that it might be value even as priced. BXP as most votes seems like more than a 25/1 shot given how uncertain the environment at the next election. All cheap talk as I'm not betting.
  • I’m going to Hartlepool on Sunday. I will report back... 🙄

    There will be a lot of anger up there: an anger over Brexit, for sure, but also with a political elite that has, for decades, ignored this anger and sought to impose its own considerations and priorities over an angry populace. They are angry.
  • NigelbNigelb Posts: 71,236
    The clear winners are the frontrunners.
  • HYUFDHYUFD Posts: 123,151
    Mainly seemed to be Biden and Klobuchar arguing against Sanders and Warren over the latter's support for Medicare for all, with a strong anti gun message from O'Rourke
  • FF43FF43 Posts: 17,208
    Maybe Lib Dems 20-30 at 2/1. They're nearly there. I would say there's more upside than downside for them and they generally improve their share during campaigns.
  • FoxyFoxy Posts: 48,724

    I’m going to Hartlepool on Sunday. I will report back... 🙄

    There will be a lot of anger up there: an anger over Brexit, for sure, but also with a political elite that has, for decades, ignored this anger and sought to impose its own considerations and priorities over an angry populace. They are angry.
    Down there for @Gallowgate!

  • isamisam Posts: 41,118
    You think Labour underperformed in 2017?
  • geoffwgeoffw Posts: 8,722
    What is Bercow going to do?
  • NigelbNigelb Posts: 71,236
    Note that being asked whether you prefer one thing to another is clearly not understood as identical to being asked to make a straight choice between two things.
  • Foxy said:

    I’m going to Hartlepool on Sunday. I will report back... 🙄

    There will be a lot of anger up there: an anger over Brexit, for sure, but also with a political elite that has, for decades, ignored this anger and sought to impose its own considerations and priorities over an angry populace. They are angry.
    Down there for @Gallowgate!

    Apologies - didn’t think anywhere north of Hartlepool really supported human life.
  • HYUFD said:

    https://twitter.com/leobarasi/status/1172397804745940996?s=20

    Which is why SindyRef2 can’t be a rerun of SindyRef1.....

    49% of voters oppose a further 3 months extension to Brexit, to just 29% that agree. By 54% to 25% voters think the Leave vote should be respected.

    Voters also prefer staying in the EU, leaving with a Deal or leaving with No Deal to Jeremy Corbyn as PM
    Corbyn knocking it out the park all round there.
  • Foxy said:

    I’m going to Hartlepool on Sunday. I will report back... 🙄

    There will be a lot of anger up there: an anger over Brexit, for sure, but also with a political elite that has, for decades, ignored this anger and sought to impose its own considerations and priorities over an angry populace. They are angry.
    Down there for @Gallowgate!

    I struggle to think of anywhere south of Durham as 'the North'.
  • Mr. W, he's going to forsake his duty and put on the one ring. In the interests of Middle Earth, of course, not for reasons of ambition.
  • kle4kle4 Posts: 96,163
    HYUFD said:

    HYUFD said:

    Byronic said:


    I am not Sean. I AM predicting violence. Something wicked this way comes.

    Unfortunately there's no possible outcome to this that doesn't involve a minority of leave enthusiasts feeling betrayed and trying to murder MPs again. Nationalism is a disease.
    Oh, I don't know. No Deal would mean it was Remainers murdering MPs this time.....
    This is the thing though, No Deal won't satisfy the leave enthusiasts, because at some point someone will make some kind of deal with the rest of the EU, and *that* deal will be a betrayal.
    But before that, you would have a deal that meant we have officially left the European Union. And THAT deal will be a betrayal of all the hope that Remainers have built up after three years of piling up the barricades.

    I would suggest swimming lengths in an ocean of Remainer tears will be enough to satisfy most Leavers.
    I would suggest you’re wrong, given the ERG voted May’s deal down 3 times and are already saying removing the backstop isn’t enough.
    The Withdrawal Agreement minus the backstop has a majority in the Commons though as the Brady amendment showed, the DUP would vote for it and probably enough Labour and Independent MPs like Flint and Snell and Field and Lloyd and Austin to cancel out ERG diehards like Redwood, Francois and Baker who never voted for the Withdrawal Agreement and will never vote for it regardless of form
    The Withdrawal Agreement minus the backstop doesn’t exist mate. How many times?
    According to Charles Grant it may do

    https://twitter.com/CER_Grant/status/1172135624163438594?s=20

    https://twitter.com/CER_Grant/status/1172135626071781376?s=20

    https://twitter.com/CER_Grant/status/1172135627648917504?s=20

    https://twitter.com/CER_Grant/status/1172135629175394306?s=20

    https://twitter.com/CER_Grant/status/1172135630765273089?s=20
    And why exactly will the DUP and ERG accept something 'almost equivalent to the backstop'?

    This is just the call the backstop something else plan. If the EU accept it as almost equivalent the dup et al can see that and react.
  • 5/2 on the Conservatives being in the 20-30% band looks good. They’re not much above that now and the gilt is rapidly coming off the gingerbread.

    It's not gingerbread..
  • HYUFDHYUFD Posts: 123,151
    kle4 said:

    HYUFD said:

    HYUFD said:

    Byronic said:


    I am not Sean. I AM predicting violence. Something wicked this way comes.

    Unfortunately there's no possible outcome to this that doesn't involve a minority of leave enthusiasts feeling betrayed and trying to murder MPs again. Nationalism is a disease.
    Oh, I don't know. No Deal would mean it was Remainers murdering MPs this time.....
    This is the thing though, No Deal won't satisfy the leave enthusiasts, because at some point someone will make some kind of deal with the rest of the EU, and *that* deal will be a betrayal.
    But before that, you would have a deal that meant we have officially left the European Union. And THAT deal will be a betrayal of all the hope that Remainers have built up after three years of piling up the barricades.

    I would suggest swimming lengths in an ocean of Remainer tears will be enough to satisfy most Leavers.
    I would suggest you’re wrong, given the ERG voted May’s deal down 3 times and are already saying removing the backstop isn’t enough.
    The Withdrawal Agreement minus the backstop has a majority in the Commons though as the Brady amendment showed, the DUP would vote for it and probably enough Labour and Independent MPs like Flint and Snell and Field and Lloyd and Austin to cancel out ERG diehards like Redwood, Francois and Baker who never voted for the Withdrawal Agreement and will never vote for it regardless of form
    The Withdrawal Agreement minus the backstop doesn’t exist mate. How many times?
    According to Charles Grant it may do

    https://twitter.com/CER_Grant/status/1172135624163438594?s=20

    https://twitter.com/CER_Grant/status/1172135626071781376?s=20

    https://twitter.com/CER_Grant/status/1172135627648917504?s=20

    https://twitter.com/CER_Grant/status/1172135629175394306?s=20

    https://twitter.com/CER_Grant/status/1172135630765273089?s=20
    And why exactly will the DUP and ERG accept something 'almost equivalent to the backstop'?

    This is just the call the backstop something else plan. If the EU accept it as almost equivalent the dup et al can see that and react.
    https://twitter.com/CER_Grant/status/1172135632254177280?s=20
  • stodgestodge Posts: 13,900
    HYUFD said:



    49% of voters oppose a further 3 months extension to Brexit, to just 29% that agree. By 54% to 25% voters think the Leave vote should be respected.

    Voters also prefer staying in the EU, leaving with a Deal or leaving with No Deal to Jeremy Corbyn as PM

    Fortunately we don't run this country solely on the basis of what any particular majority thinks at any particular time.

    If there are political parties who want to run round chasing these majorities and always reflect what any majority opinion is saying fine but wait for the inevitable contradictions and contortions.

    As for Corbyn, no LD is going to put him into 10 Downing Street. There are alternative Labour figures who could be supported for a cross-party anti-No Deal Government and it needs a Government to tell the EU we are agreeing to an extension.

    That requires Boris Johnson to either resign voluntarily or be removed via a Vote of No Confidence. It also requires an alternative Government to be able to command a majority in the Commons to push through the necessary legislation. It may be Sir Oliver Letwin and others are building that cross-party concensus - the Party Conferences will tell us nothing as it will be three weeks of three sets of partisans all sounding defiant and uncompromising.
  • FF43FF43 Posts: 17,208

    I’m going to Hartlepool on Sunday. I will report back... 🙄

    There will be a lot of anger up there: an anger over Brexit, for sure, but also with a political elite that has, for decades, ignored this anger and sought to impose its own considerations and priorities over an angry populace. They are angry.
    On my visit to Hartlepool, I thought they were very friendly - and apparently peaceful - people.
  • Nigelb said:

    Note that being asked whether you prefer one thing to another is clearly not understood as identical to being asked to make a straight choice between two things.
    What a shame he didn't campaign to leave! I make a little prediction (only for fun) that Boris Johnson's name will have the same type of reaction in another 6 months.
  • kle4kle4 Posts: 96,163
    edited September 2019

    Nigelb said:

    Note that being asked whether you prefer one thing to another is clearly not understood as identical to being asked to make a straight choice between two things.
    What a shame he didn't campaign to leave! I make a little prediction (only for fun) that Boris Johnson's name will have the same type of reaction in another 6 months.
    Among MPs it will and its why he is trapped - even if he gets a great new deal the lsnpif leavers wont put their names next to a Boris deal. He could bring back Corbyns deal and not get labour to back it
  • TGOHFTGOHF Posts: 21,633
    If there is a deal

    a) does Jezza vote for it
    b) the LD manifesto will be a bit empty
    c) Amber Rudd looks even stupider.
  • kle4kle4 Posts: 96,163
    HYUFD said:

    kle4 said:

    HYUFD said:

    HYUFD said:

    Byronic said:


    I am not Sean. I AM predicting violence. Something wicked this way comes.

    Unfortunately there's no possible outcome to this that doesn't involve a minority of leave enthusiasts feeling betrayed and trying to murder MPs again. Nationalism is a disease.
    Oh, I don't know. No Deal would mean it was Remainers murdering MPs this time.....
    This is the thing though, No Deal won't satisfy the leave enthusiasts, because at some point someone will make some kind of deal with the rest of the EU, and *that* deal will be a betrayal.
    But before that, you would have a deal that meant we have officially left the European Union. And THAT deal will be a betrayal of all the hope that Remainers have built up after three years of piling up the barricades.

    I would suggest swimming lengths in an ocean of Remainer tears will be enough to satisfy most Leavers.
    I would suggest you’re wrong, given the ERG voted May’s deal down 3 times and are already saying removing the backstop isn’t enough.
    The Withdrawal Agreement minus the backstop has a majority in the Commons though as the Brady amendment showed, the DUP would vote for it and probably enough Labour and Independent MPs like Flint and Snell and Field and Lloyd and Austin to cancel out ERG diehards like Redwood, Francois and Baker who never voted for the Withdrawal Agreement and will never vote for it regardless of form
    The Withdrawal Agreement minus the backstop doesn’t exist mate. How many times?
    According to Charles Grant it may do

    https://twitter.com/CER_Grant/status/1172135624163438594?s=20

    https://twitter.com/CER_Grant/status/1172135626071781376?s=20

    https://twitter.com/CER_Grant/status/1172135627648917504?s=20

    https://twitter.com/CER_Grant/status/1172135629175394306?s=20

    https://twitter.com/CER_Grant/status/1172135630765273089?s=20
    And why exactly will the DUP and ERG accept something 'almost equivalent to the backstop'?

    This is just the call the backstop something else plan. If the EU accept it as almost equivalent the dup et al can see that and react.
    https://twitter.com/CER_Grant/status/1172135632254177280?s=20
    Right, so it's a nonsense.
  • HYUFDHYUFD Posts: 123,151

    Nigelb said:

    Note that being asked whether you prefer one thing to another is clearly not understood as identical to being asked to make a straight choice between two things.
    What a shame he didn't campaign to leave! I make a little prediction (only for fun) that Boris Johnson's name will have the same type of reaction in another 6 months.
    On those figures Boris would trounce Corbyn, the main question being more if the LDs can overtake Corbyn Labour in voteshare
  • FoxyFoxy Posts: 48,724
    If Beto cannot win in Texas, he cannot win. Warren looks increasingly likely to me. Plenty of energy to her campaign, and she will inherit Bernie's votes. Where Joe’s votes go as he fades will be significant, it may be the last chance for Amy.

    Was this video clip edited or is Joe as incoherent as he sounds? Record Player??

    https://twitter.com/AnandWrites/status/1172349435071881216?s=19
  • I’m going to Hartlepool on Sunday. I will report back... 🙄

    There will be a lot of anger up there: an anger over Brexit, for sure, but also with a political elite that has, for decades, ignored this anger and sought to impose its own considerations and priorities over an angry populace. They are angry.
    I think we have to be careful how we define "anger". I am angry that we had a referendum on something so important that was run in such a simplistic way and was distorted both during and after the debate, but I am not going to man the barricades. Equally I am angry that Boris Johnson and the right wing entryists have wrecked the Conservative Party, but I am not about to do anything illegal to vent my spleen. People can be "angry", but there is a fundamental difference between being highly annoyed politically and civil unrest.
  • HYUFDHYUFD Posts: 123,151
    stodge said:

    HYUFD said:



    49% of voters oppose a further 3 months extension to Brexit, to just 29% that agree. By 54% to 25% voters think the Leave vote should be respected.

    Voters also prefer staying in the EU, leaving with a Deal or leaving with No Deal to Jeremy Corbyn as PM

    Fortunately we don't run this country solely on the basis of what any particular majority thinks at any particular time.

    If there are political parties who want to run round chasing these majorities and always reflect what any majority opinion is saying fine but wait for the inevitable contradictions and contortions.

    As for Corbyn, no LD is going to put him into 10 Downing Street. There are alternative Labour figures who could be supported for a cross-party anti-No Deal Government and it needs a Government to tell the EU we are agreeing to an extension.

    That requires Boris Johnson to either resign voluntarily or be removed via a Vote of No Confidence. It also requires an alternative Government to be able to command a majority in the Commons to push through the necessary legislation. It may be Sir Oliver Letwin and others are building that cross-party concensus - the Party Conferences will tell us nothing as it will be three weeks of three sets of partisans all sounding defiant and uncompromising.
    There isn't as Corbynistas will not accept their man not being PM and the LDs and CUK etc will not accept Corbyn being PM.

  • HYUFD said:

    kle4 said:

    HYUFD said:

    HYUFD said:

    Byronic said:


    I am not Sean. I AM predicting violence. Something wicked this way comes.

    Unfortunately there's no possible outcome to this that doesn't involve a minority of leave enthusiasts feeling betrayed and trying to murder MPs again. Nationalism is a disease.
    Oh, I don't know. No Deal would mean it was Remainers murdering MPs this time.....
    This is the thing though, No Deal won't satisfy the leave enthusiasts, because at some point someone will make some kind of deal with the rest of the EU, and *that* deal will be a betrayal.
    But before that, you would have a deal that meant we have officially left the European Union. And THAT deal will be a betrayal of all the hope that Remainers have built up after three years of piling up the barricades.

    I would suggest swimming lengths in an ocean of Remainer tears will be enough to satisfy most Leavers.
    I would suggest you’re wrong, given the ERG voted May’s deal down 3 times and are already saying removing the backstop isn’t enough.
    The Withdrawal Agreement minus the backstop has a majority in the Commons though as the Brady amendment showed, the DUP would vote for it and probably enough Labour and Independent MPs like Flint and Snell and Field and Lloyd and Austin to cancel out ERG diehards like Redwood, Francois and Baker who never voted for the Withdrawal Agreement and will never vote for it regardless of form
    The Withdrawal Agreement minus the backstop doesn’t exist mate. How many times?
    According to Charles Grant it may do

    https://twitter.com/CER_Grant/status/1172135624163438594?s=20

    https://twitter.com/CER_Grant/status/1172135626071781376?s=20

    https://twitter.com/CER_Grant/status/1172135627648917504?s=20

    https://twitter.com/CER_Grant/status/1172135629175394306?s=20

    https://twitter.com/CER_Grant/status/1172135630765273089?s=20
    And why exactly will the DUP and ERG accept something 'almost equivalent to the backstop'?

    This is just the call the backstop something else plan. If the EU accept it as almost equivalent the dup et al can see that and react.
    https://twitter.com/CER_Grant/status/1172135632254177280?s=20
    I see we're going to get that CER_Grant thread posted repeatedly for the next few days until the wheels fall of that particular 'BMW and prosecco makers are gagging for it' bandwagon.
  • FoxyFoxy Posts: 48,724
    Scott_P said:
    How many of BoZo's 30 days are left now? so he is putting the band back together...
  • MarqueeMarkMarqueeMark Posts: 52,616
    FF43 said:

    I’m going to Hartlepool on Sunday. I will report back... 🙄

    There will be a lot of anger up there: an anger over Brexit, for sure, but also with a political elite that has, for decades, ignored this anger and sought to impose its own considerations and priorities over an angry populace. They are angry.
    On my visit to Hartlepool, I thought they were very friendly - and apparently peaceful - people.
    I have related this story before, of twitching an Orphean Warbler on the Hartlepool Headland. A group of us, with many thousands of pounds worth of binoculars and telescopes obvious, were approached by a gang of youths on bikes. They asked what we were doing, and where we from. Rather wary, we explained we had travelled several hundred miles to see a rare bird. "Well, I hope yuz see it. An' a safe journey home." With that and a cheery wave, they were off.

    Top folk in Hartlepool.
  • Foxy said:

    Scott_P said:
    How many of BoZo's 30 days are left now? so he is putting the band back together...
    BoZo’s Brexit proposals are like Trump’s “secret” plan to defeat ISIS. They don’t exist...
  • Scott_PScott_P Posts: 51,453

    I see we're going to get that CER_Grant thread posted repeatedly for the next few days until the wheels fall of that particular 'BMW and prosecco makers are gagging for it' bandwagon.

    https://twitter.com/heraldscotland/status/1172396283673231360
  • HYUFD said:

    Nigelb said:

    Note that being asked whether you prefer one thing to another is clearly not understood as identical to being asked to make a straight choice between two things.
    What a shame he didn't campaign to leave! I make a little prediction (only for fun) that Boris Johnson's name will have the same type of reaction in another 6 months.
    On those figures Boris would trounce Corbyn, the main question being more if the LDs can overtake Corbyn Labour in voteshare
    On Theresa May's figures she was meant to trounce Corbyn, remember? Theresa May was a much more credible politician than Johnson, both in track record and honesty, and yet the campaign cracked her, in the same way it might with Boris Johnson. He is a walking calamity. A high profile GE will show him for what he is.

    The only thing that will mitigate it for him is Corbyn. The electorate are being presented with two plates of shit flavoured gruel. They have select and consume the one that is slightly less repulsive.
  • NooNoo Posts: 2,380

    I’m going to Hartlepool on Sunday. I will report back... 🙄

    There will be a lot of anger up there: an anger over Brexit, for sure, but also with a political elite that has, for decades, ignored this anger and sought to impose its own considerations and priorities over an angry populace. They are angry.
    I think we have to be careful how we define "anger". I am angry that we had a referendum on something so important that was run in such a simplistic way and was distorted both during and after the debate, but I am not going to man the barricades. Equally I am angry that Boris Johnson and the right wing entryists have wrecked the Conservative Party, but I am not about to do anything illegal to vent my spleen. People can be "angry", but there is a fundamental difference between being highly annoyed politically and civil unrest.
    I think as always it's a tiny minority who are overexcitable and actively want some kind of violence. And even of those, only a small number would have the bottle to do anything about it. And of those, a small minority would have the wit to do anything effective.

    It's like on here. Those who talk up civil war number about 3, and one of those was stupid enough to actually make direct threats ("perhaps my punch in your fat smug, pig-ugly face will persuade you.. perhaps a bomb... we will come for you first"). I assume that person will be ejected from these boards when the moderators wake up. Certainly if they said these things in public they would be arrested and that's maybe the end of their insurrection.

    The point is, you need to be angry enough to want violence, brave enough to commit it yourself, and discreet enough to keep your head down and not be noticed, and clever enough to think up something effective. There's almost nobody who fits those criteria.
  • Con 20-30 and Lab 30-40 look underpriced. LD 10-20 seems so overwhelmingly likely that it might be value even as priced. BXP as most votes seems like more than a 25/1 shot given how uncertain the environment at the next election. All cheap talk as I'm not betting.

    Actually, scratch the LD comment, they have a good chance if being 20-30, they look priced about right across the buckets. The other comments hold, though.
  • HYUFD said:

    kle4 said:

    HYUFD said:

    HYUFD said:



    Oh, I don't know. No Deal would mean it was Remainers murdering MPs this time.....

    This is the thing though, No Deal won't satisfy the leave enthusiasts, because at some point someone will make some kind of deal with the rest of the EU, and *that* deal will be a betrayal.
    But before that, you would have a deal that meant we have officially left the European Union. And THAT deal will be a betrayal of all the hope that Remainers have built up after three years of piling up the barricades.

    I would suggest swimming lengths in an ocean of Remainer tears will be enough to satisfy most Leavers.
    I would suggest you’re wrong, given the ERG voted May’s deal down 3 times and are already saying removing the backstop isn’t enough.
    The Withdrawal Agreement minus the backstop has a majority in the Commons though as the Brady amendment showed, the DUP would vote for it and probably enough Labour and Independent MPs like Flint and Snell and Field and Lloyd and Austin to cancel out ERG diehards like Redwood, Francois and Baker who never voted for the Withdrawal Agreement and will never vote for it regardless of form
    The Withdrawal Agreement minus the backstop doesn’t exist mate. How many times?
    According to Charles Grant it may do

    https://twitter.com/CER_Grant/status/1172135624163438594?s=20

    https://twitter.com/CER_Grant/status/1172135626071781376?s=20

    https://twitter.com/CER_Grant/status/1172135627648917504?s=20

    https://twitter.com/CER_Grant/status/1172135629175394306?s=20

    https://twitter.com/CER_Grant/status/1172135630765273089?s=20
    And why exactly will the DUP and ERG accept something 'almost equivalent to the backstop'?

    This is just the call the backstop something else plan. If the EU accept it as almost equivalent the dup et al can see that and react.
    https://twitter.com/CER_Grant/status/1172135632254177280?s=20
    I see we're going to get that CER_Grant thread posted repeatedly for the next few days until the wheels fall of that particular 'BMW and prosecco makers are gagging for it' bandwagon.
    Tweet 4 is the key one. Everything turns on those words “... but only if UK produces serious proposals, which it has not yet done”.
  • Foxy said:

    Scott_P said:
    How many of BoZo's 30 days are left now? so he is putting the band back together...
    Seven.
  • FoxyFoxy Posts: 48,724

    HYUFD said:

    Nigelb said:

    Note that being asked whether you prefer one thing to another is clearly not understood as identical to being asked to make a straight choice between two things.
    What a shame he didn't campaign to leave! I make a little prediction (only for fun) that Boris Johnson's name will have the same type of reaction in another 6 months.
    On those figures Boris would trounce Corbyn, the main question being more if the LDs can overtake Corbyn Labour in voteshare
    On Theresa May's figures she was meant to trounce Corbyn, remember? Theresa May was a much more credible politician than Johnson, both in track record and honesty, and yet the campaign cracked her, in the same way it might with Boris Johnson. He is a walking calamity. A high profile GE will show him for what he is.

    The only thing that will mitigate it for him is Corbyn. The electorate are being presented with two plates of shit flavoured gruel. They have select and consume the one that is slightly less repulsive.
    Other flavours of gruel are available!
  • NigelbNigelb Posts: 71,236
    Foxy said:

    If Beto cannot win in Texas, he cannot win. Warren looks increasingly likely to me. Plenty of energy to her campaign, and she will inherit Bernie's votes. Where Joe’s votes go as he fades will be significant, it may be the last chance for Amy.

    Was this video clip edited or is Joe as incoherent as he sounds? Record Player??

    https://twitter.com/AnandWrites/status/1172349435071881216?s=19
    He's always been more than a little incoherent, but increasingly so now. It doesn't seem to dent his polling much.

    "...make sure they play the record player at night" is a classic in any context. In the context of the question, just bizarre.
  • edmundintokyoedmundintokyo Posts: 17,708
    edited September 2019
    Foxy said:

    KLOBUCHAR!

    If Beto cannot win in Texas, he cannot win. Warren looks increasingly likely to me. Plenty of energy to her campaign, and she will inherit Bernie's votes. Where Joe’s votes go as he fades will be significant, it may be the last chance for Amy.
    I think the problem for Baemy is that her strategy is pretty much Iowa Or Bust, but she really needs Biden to fall over first before she can get any traction, and if Biden can't make the distance, it won't be clear until Iowa.
  • Foxy said:

    Scott_P said:
    How many of BoZo's 30 days are left now? so he is putting the band back together...
    It would seem that the idea that removing no-deal would "weaken his negotiating hand" was (surprise surprise) far from the truth. He now has to actually start negotiating because there is no other option, when really he thought it might be fun to crash out so as to appeal to the thick pillocks that now dominate the membership of the Conservative Party. Lying git. No integrity.
  • NigelbNigelb Posts: 71,236
    Noo said:

    I’m going to Hartlepool on Sunday. I will report back... 🙄

    There will be a lot of anger up there: an anger over Brexit, for sure, but also with a political elite that has, for decades, ignored this anger and sought to impose its own considerations and priorities over an angry populace. They are angry.
    I think we have to be careful how we define "anger". I am angry that we had a referendum on something so important that was run in such a simplistic way and was distorted both during and after the debate, but I am not going to man the barricades. Equally I am angry that Boris Johnson and the right wing entryists have wrecked the Conservative Party, but I am not about to do anything illegal to vent my spleen. People can be "angry", but there is a fundamental difference between being highly annoyed politically and civil unrest.
    I think as always it's a tiny minority who are overexcitable and actively want some kind of violence. And even of those, only a small number would have the bottle to do anything about it. And of those, a small minority would have the wit to do anything effective.

    It's like on here. Those who talk up civil war number about 3, and one of those was stupid enough to actually make direct threats ("perhaps my punch in your fat smug, pig-ugly face will persuade you.. perhaps a bomb... we will come for you first"). I assume that person will be ejected from these boards when the moderators wake up. Certainly if they said these things in public they would be arrested and that's maybe the end of their insurrection.

    The point is, you need to be angry enough to want violence, brave enough to commit it yourself, and discreet enough to keep your head down and not be noticed, and clever enough to think up something effective. There's almost nobody who fits those criteria.
    Though from the past evidence of political violence, you really don't need to be particularly brave, discreet or clever.
  • Noo said:

    I’m going to Hartlepool on Sunday. I will report back... 🙄

    There will be a lot of anger up there: an anger over Brexit, for sure, but also with a political elite that has, for decades, ignored this anger and sought to impose its own considerations and priorities over an angry populace. They are angry.
    I think we have to be careful how we define "anger". I am angry that we had a referendum on something so important that was run in such a simplistic way and was distorted both during and after the debate, but I am not going to man the barricades. Equally I am angry that Boris Johnson and the right wing entryists have wrecked the Conservative Party, but I am not about to do anything illegal to vent my spleen. People can be "angry", but there is a fundamental difference between being highly annoyed politically and civil unrest.
    I think as always it's a tiny minority who are overexcitable and actively want some kind of violence. And even of those, only a small number would have the bottle to do anything about it. And of those, a small minority would have the wit to do anything effective.

    It's like on here. Those who talk up civil war number about 3, and one of those was stupid enough to actually make direct threats ("perhaps my punch in your fat smug, pig-ugly face will persuade you.. perhaps a bomb... we will come for you first"). I assume that person will be ejected from these boards when the moderators wake up. Certainly if they said these things in public they would be arrested and that's maybe the end of their insurrection.

    The point is, you need to be angry enough to want violence, brave enough to commit it yourself, and discreet enough to keep your head down and not be noticed, and clever enough to think up something effective. There's almost nobody who fits those criteria.
    +1. The people who come out with this crap hope that it might frighten people into acquiescing to their extremist viewpoint.
  • TheValiantTheValiant Posts: 1,878
    Question for the Pb brains trust.

    If the Belfast agreement is an impediment to the UK leaving the EU, is not a proposed Northern Ireland only backstop not a future problem for the EU?

    If at a later date, Ireland wanted to join Schengen, it couldn’t as the CTA and the NI backstop would allow passport free access to British citizens to enter EU member states?
  • philiphphiliph Posts: 4,704
    Nigelb said:

    Foxy said:

    If Beto cannot win in Texas, he cannot win. Warren looks increasingly likely to me. Plenty of energy to her campaign, and she will inherit Bernie's votes. Where Joe’s votes go as he fades will be significant, it may be the last chance for Amy.

    Was this video clip edited or is Joe as incoherent as he sounds? Record Player??

    https://twitter.com/AnandWrites/status/1172349435071881216?s=19
    He's always been more than a little incoherent, but increasingly so now. It doesn't seem to dent his polling much.

    "...make sure they play the record player at night" is a classic in any context. In the context of the question, just bizarre.
    When the base line for coherence is Trump the bar is in a different and lower place than one may anticipate in normal circumstances.
  • Foxy said:

    HYUFD said:

    Nigelb said:

    Note that being asked whether you prefer one thing to another is clearly not understood as identical to being asked to make a straight choice between two things.
    What a shame he didn't campaign to leave! I make a little prediction (only for fun) that Boris Johnson's name will have the same type of reaction in another 6 months.
    On those figures Boris would trounce Corbyn, the main question being more if the LDs can overtake Corbyn Labour in voteshare
    On Theresa May's figures she was meant to trounce Corbyn, remember? Theresa May was a much more credible politician than Johnson, both in track record and honesty, and yet the campaign cracked her, in the same way it might with Boris Johnson. He is a walking calamity. A high profile GE will show him for what he is.

    The only thing that will mitigate it for him is Corbyn. The electorate are being presented with two plates of shit flavoured gruel. They have select and consume the one that is slightly less repulsive.
    Other flavours of gruel are available!
    Yes, but with the best will in the world, and while I will be choosing one of those alternative flavours this time, the likelihood is that we will all be made to eat one of the two shit flavours, even though as individuals some of us ordered something more pleasant, because that is how the system works.
  • Scott_PScott_P Posts: 51,453
    FF43 said:

    On my visit to Hartlepool, I thought they were very friendly - and apparently peaceful - people.

    Mostly Harmless
  • FoxyFoxy Posts: 48,724
    Nigelb said:

    Noo said:

    I’m going to Hartlepool on Sunday. I will report back... 🙄

    There will be a lot of anger up there: an anger over Brexit, for sure, but also with a political elite that has, for decades, ignored this anger and sought to impose its own considerations and priorities over an angry populace. They are angry.
    I think we have to be careful how we define "anger". I am angry that we had a referendum on something so important that was run in such a simplistic way and was distorted both during and after the debate, but I am not going to man the barricades. Equally I am angry that Boris Johnson and the right wing entryists have wrecked the Conservative Party, but I am not about to do anything illegal to vent my spleen. People can be "angry", but there is a fundamental difference between being highly annoyed politically and civil unrest.
    I think as always it's a tiny minority who are overexcitable and actively want some kind of violence. And even of those, only a small number would have the bottle to do anything about it. And of those, a small minority would have the wit to do anything effective.

    It's like on here. Those who talk up civil war number about 3, and one of those was stupid enough to actually make direct threats ("perhaps my punch in your fat smug, pig-ugly face will persuade you.. perhaps a bomb... we will come for you first"). I assume that person will be ejected from these boards when the moderators wake up. Certainly if they said these things in public they would be arrested and that's maybe the end of their insurrection.

    The point is, you need to be angry enough to want violence, brave enough to commit it yourself, and discreet enough to keep your head down and not be noticed, and clever enough to think up something effective. There's almost nobody who fits those criteria.
    Though from the past evidence of political violence, you really don't need to be particularly brave, discreet or clever.
    Organised political violence is much harder than it was a couple of decades back. The ubiquity of smartphones makes insurrection nearly impossible to be watertight, and GCHQ are always listening. Even in NI it is ordees of magnitude harder.

    Spontaneous acts, or demonstrations that turn violent are more possible. Life comes at you fast.

  • It would seem that the idea that removing no-deal would "weaken his negotiating hand" was (surprise surprise) far from the truth. He now has to actually start negotiating because there is no other option, when really he thought it might be fun to crash out so as to appeal to the thick pillocks that now dominate the membership of the Conservative Party. Lying git. No integrity.

    More to the point, he didn't expect to do a deal *or* crash out, he expected to have an election in which he could still make the different flavours of Leave supporters think that he was going to do whichever of Make A Deal and Crash Out they respectively preferred.
  • isamisam Posts: 41,118

    Noo said:

    I’m going to Hartlepool on Sunday. I will report back... 🙄

    There will be a lot of anger up there: an anger over Brexit, for sure, but also with a political elite that has, for decades, ignored this anger and sought to impose its own considerations and priorities over an angry populace. They are angry.
    I think we have to be careful how we define "anger". I am angry that we had a referendum on something so important that was run in such a simplistic way and was distorted both during and after the debate, but I am not going to man the barricades. Equally I am angry that Boris Johnson and the right wing entryists have wrecked the Conservative Party, but I am not about to do anything illegal to vent my spleen. People can be "angry", but there is a fundamental difference between being highly annoyed politically and civil unrest.
    I think as always it's a tiny minority who are overexcitable and actively want some kind of violence. And even of those, only a small number would have the bottle to do anything about it. And of those, a small minority would have the wit to do anything effective.

    It's like on here. Those who talk up civil war number about 3, and one of those was stupid enough to actually make direct threats ("perhaps my punch in your fat smug, pig-ugly face will persuade you.. perhaps a bomb... we will come for you first"). I assume that person will be ejected from these boards when the moderators wake up. Certainly if they said these things in public they would be arrested and that's maybe the end of their insurrection.

    The point is, you need to be angry enough to want violence, brave enough to commit it yourself, and discreet enough to keep your head down and not be noticed, and clever enough to think up something effective. There's almost nobody who fits those criteria.
    +1. The people who come out with this crap hope that it might frighten people into acquiescing to their extremist viewpoint.

  • FoxyFoxy Posts: 48,724

    Noo said:

    I’m going to Hartlepool on Sunday. I will report back... 🙄

    There will be a lot of anger up there: an anger over Brexit, for sure, but also with a political elite that has, for decades, ignored this anger and sought to impose its own considerations and priorities over an angry populace. They are angry.
    I think we have to be careful how we define "anger". I am angry that we had a referendum on something so important that was run in such a simplistic way and was distorted both during and after the debate, but I am not going to man the barricades. Equally I am angry that Boris Johnson and the right wing entryists have wrecked the Conservative Party, but I am not about to do anything illegal to vent my spleen. People can be "angry", but there is a fundamental difference between being highly annoyed politically and civil unrest.
    I think as always it's a tiny minority who are overexcitable and actively want some kind of violence. And even of those, only a small number would have the bottle to do anything about it. And of those, a small minority would have the wit to do anything effective.

    It's like on here. Those who talk up civil war number about 3, and one of those was stupid enough to actually make direct threats ("perhaps my punch in your fat smug, pig-ugly face will persuade you.. perhaps a bomb... we will come for you first"). I assume that person will be ejected from these boards when the moderators wake up. Certainly if they said these things in public they would be arrested and that's maybe the end of their insurrection.

    The point is, you need to be angry enough to want violence, brave enough to commit it yourself, and discreet enough to keep your head down and not be noticed, and clever enough to think up something effective. There's almost nobody who fits those criteria.
    +1. The people who come out with this crap hope that it might frighten people into acquiescing to their extremist viewpoint.
    If there is one lesson of 20th Century European history, it is that you don't defeat extremists by appeasing them.
  • NooNoo Posts: 2,380
    Nigelb said:

    Noo said:

    I’m going to Hartlepool on Sunday. I will report back... 🙄

    There will be a lot of anger up there: an anger over Brexit, for sure, but also with a political elite that has, for decades, ignored this anger and sought to impose its own considerations and priorities over an angry populace. They are angry.
    I think we have to be careful how we define "anger". I am angry that we had a referendum on something so important that was run in such a simplistic way and was distorted both during and after the debate, but I am not going to man the barricades. Equally I am angry that Boris Johnson and the right wing entryists have wrecked the Conservative Party, but I am not about to do anything illegal to vent my spleen. People can be "angry", but there is a fundamental difference between being highly annoyed politically and civil unrest.
    I think as always it's a tiny minority who are overexcitable and actively want some kind of violence. And even of those, only a small number would have the bottle to do anything about it. And of those, a small minority would have the wit to do anything effective.

    It's like on here. Those who talk up civil war number about 3, and one of those was stupid enough to actually make direct threats ("perhaps my punch in your fat smug, pig-ugly face will persuade you.. perhaps a bomb... we will come for you first"). I assume that person will be ejected from these boards when the moderators wake up. Certainly if they said these things in public they would be arrested and that's maybe the end of their insurrection.

    The point is, you need to be angry enough to want violence, brave enough to commit it yourself, and discreet enough to keep your head down and not be noticed, and clever enough to think up something effective. There's almost nobody who fits those criteria.
    Though from the past evidence of political violence, you really don't need to be particularly brave, discreet or clever.
    You do to mount a sustained campaign. Most acts of political violence are messy and opportunistic. Any nonsense like that, if it happens at all, will quickly peter out.
  • philiphphiliph Posts: 4,704
    tlg86 said:
    LibDem phone call:

    "Hello. I'm the 12/1 chance of unseating BJ. It would help my chances very much if you, the 6/1 chance who has no chance, would stand down. As my bar chart shows, only a 12/1 shot can win here,"

  • HYUFDHYUFD Posts: 123,151

    HYUFD said:

    Nigelb said:

    Note that being asked whether you prefer one thing to another is clearly not understood as identical to being asked to make a straight choice between two things.
    What a shame he didn't campaign to leave! I make a little prediction (only for fun) that Boris Johnson's name will have the same type of reaction in another 6 months.
    On those figures Boris would trounce Corbyn, the main question being more if the LDs can overtake Corbyn Labour in voteshare
    On Theresa May's figures she was meant to trounce Corbyn, remember? Theresa May was a much more credible politician than Johnson, both in track record and honesty, and yet the campaign cracked her, in the same way it might with Boris Johnson. He is a walking calamity. A high profile GE will show him for what he is.

    The only thing that will mitigate it for him is Corbyn. The electorate are being presented with two plates of shit flavoured gruel. They have select and consume the one that is slightly less repulsive.
    Boris is probably the most charismatic politician and best campaigner in British politics today, as two London Mayoral victories and an EU referendum win prove, May one of the worst, she was a technocrat manager and made gaffes like the Dementia Tax Boris would not.
  • HYUFDHYUFD Posts: 123,151
    isam said:

    Noo said:

    I’m going to Hartlepool on Sunday. I will report back... 🙄

    There will be a lot of anger up there: an anger over Brexit, for sure, but also with a political elite that has, for decades, ignored this anger and sought to impose its own considerations and priorities over an angry populace. They are angry.
    I think we have to be careful how we define "anger". I am angry that we had a referendum on something so important that was run in such a simplistic way and was distorted both during and after the debate, but I am not going to man the barricades. Equally I am angry that Boris Johnson and the right wing entryists have wrecked the Conservative Party, but I am not about to do anything illegal to vent my spleen. People can be "angry", but there is a fundamental difference between being highly annoyed politically and civil unrest.
    I think as always it's a tiny minority who are overexcitable and actively want some kind of violence. And even of those, only a small number would have the bottle to do anything about it. And of those, a small minority would have the wit to do anything effective.

    It's like on here. Those who talk up civil war number about 3, and one of those was stupid enough to actually make direct threats ("perhaps my punch in your fat smug, pig-ugly face will persuade you.. perhaps a bomb... we will come for you first"). I assume that person will be ejected from these boards when the moderators wake up. Certainly if they said these things in public they would be arrested and that's maybe the end of their insurrection.

    The point is, you need to be angry enough to want violence, brave enough to commit it yourself, and discreet enough to keep your head down and not be noticed, and clever enough to think up something effective. There's almost nobody who fits those criteria.
    +1. The people who come out with this crap hope that it might frighten people into acquiescing to their extremist viewpoint.

    That is no better than the extremist who killed Jo Cox
  • NooNoo Posts: 2,380
    edited September 2019
    isam said:

    Noo said:

    I’m going to Hartlepool on Sunday. I will report back... 🙄

    There will be a lot of anger up there: an anger over Brexit, for sure, but also with a political elite that has, for decades, ignored this anger and sought to impose its own considerations and priorities over an angry populace. They are angry.
    I think we have to be careful how we define "anger". I am angry that we had a referendum on something so important that was run in such a simplistic way and was distorted both during and after the debate, but I am not going to man the barricades. Equally I am angry that Boris Johnson and the right wing entryists have wrecked the Conservative Party, but I am not about to do anything illegal to vent my spleen. People can be "angry", but there is a fundamental difference between being highly annoyed politically and civil unrest.
    I think as always it's a tiny minority who are overexcitable and actively want some kind of violence. And even of those, only a small number would have the bottle to do anything about it. And of those, a small minority would have the wit to do anything effective.

    It's like on here. Those who talk up civil war number about 3, and one of those was stupid enough to actually make direct threats ("perhaps my punch in your fat smug, pig-ugly face will persuade you.. perhaps a bomb... we will come for you first"). I assume that person will be ejected from these boards when the moderators wake up. Certainly if they said these things in public they would be arrested and that's maybe the end of their insurrection.

    The point is, you need to be angry enough to want violence, brave enough to commit it yourself, and discreet enough to keep your head down and not be noticed, and clever enough to think up something effective. There's almost nobody who fits those criteria.
    +1. The people who come out with this crap hope that it might frighten people into acquiescing to their extremist viewpoint.
    Contemptible. That idiot should be arrested.
    But /please/ don't repost that kind of thing.

    Edited to remove the image from the blockquote
  • CarnyxCarnyx Posts: 42,892
    edited September 2019
    FF43 said:

    I’m going to Hartlepool on Sunday. I will report back... 🙄

    Interesting maritime museum with Napoleon era frigate and 18th C harbour buildings. The headland makes a really nice walk. Beautiful old church. Hartlepool should be on everyone's tourism route.
    Agreed. The frigate, the Trincomalee, is very special - solid teak and rigged (unlike its near-contemporary the Unicorn at Dundee). Last time I was there a couple of years ago it was surrouinded by a film-set type mock 1800-ish dockland which at least keeps the children happy. Museum there too, complete with all sorts of local stuff.

    There's also an old gun battery on the headland if that interests - primarily WW1. It got into a rather unexpected and one-sided fight with a section of the High Seas Fleet in the Great War. Lots of damage and many deaths in the town. The museum near the Trincomalee has a dud round from the German guns.
  • Foxy said:

    Con under 20% worth a punt at 18/1 with odds boost. It was a good bet at the Euros and there are several scenarios where that sort of collapse is replicated, including both Deal and No Deal.

    Similarly, LD on 30-40% at 20/1 is better value than LD most seats at 16/1, though I did get 500/1 on the latter after the 2017 GE.

    How did they do in yesterday's by-elections?
  • HYUFDHYUFD Posts: 123,151
    Scott_P said:
    Labour beat the LDs in Hillingdon even in the European Parliament elections so unlikely (the Brexit Party won)
  • nico67nico67 Posts: 4,502
    The Benn Bill has actually made the chances for a deal higher .

    Because Bozo knows an extension could really hurt his election chances .
  • NooNoo Posts: 2,380
    edited September 2019

    Noo said:

    I’m going to Hartlepool on Sunday. I will report back... 🙄

    There will be a lot of anger up there: an anger over Brexit, for sure, but also with a political elite that has, for decades, ignored this anger and sought to impose its own considerations and priorities over an angry populace. They are angry.
    I think we have to be careful how we define "anger". I am angry that we had a referendum on something so important that was run in such a simplistic way and was distorted both during and after the debate, but I am not going to man the barricades. Equally I am angry that Boris Johnson and the right wing entryists have wrecked the Conservative Party, but I am not about to do anything illegal to vent my spleen. People can be "angry", but there is a fundamental difference between being highly annoyed politically and civil unrest.
    I think as always it's a tiny minority who are overexcitable and actively want some kind of violence. And even of those, only a small number would have the bottle to do anything about it. And of those, a small minority would have the wit to do anything effective.

    It's like on here. Those who talk up civil war number about 3, and one of those was stupid enough to actually make direct threats ("perhaps my punch in your fat smug, pig-ugly face will persuade you.. perhaps a bomb... we will come for you first"). I assume that person will be ejected from these boards when the moderators wake up. Certainly if they said these things in public they would be arrested and that's maybe the end of their insurrection.

    The point is, you need to be angry enough to want violence, brave enough to commit it yourself, and discreet enough to keep your head down and not be noticed, and clever enough to think up something effective. There's almost nobody who fits those criteria.
    +1. The people who come out with this crap hope that it might frighten people into acquiescing to their extremist viewpoint.
    Yeah, and this is underscored by the unwillingness of those on the same side to condemn the threats of violence. You can be damned sure that if someone on the /other/ side had posted what was being posted last night, they'd have nothing else to talk about.
  • algarkirkalgarkirk Posts: 12,567

    Question for the Pb brains trust.

    If the Belfast agreement is an impediment to the UK leaving the EU, is not a proposed Northern Ireland only backstop not a future problem for the EU?

    If at a later date, Ireland wanted to join Schengen, it couldn’t as the CTA and the NI backstop would allow passport free access to British citizens to enter EU member states?

    Yes and yes. The GFA/BA is an elaborate fudge designed quite rightly to bring peace. Moving any element of it will cause a further problem unless the further movement is towards a united Ireland, all either in or out of the EU, or a united Ireland and Great Britain (the New Zealand solution to having two big islands close to one another) either all in or all out of EU. Don't hold your breath. Apart from 800 years of tragic history the latter solution is so obvious it hardly needs comment, except that it is presented to us by the happenstance of tectonic plate movements. Where are Nelson Mandela and Martin Luther King them you need them? For the moment the issue is not 'Will change cause problems?' but 'Who is holding the baby when the music temporarily stops?'

  • nichomarnichomar Posts: 7,483

    Foxy said:

    Con under 20% worth a punt at 18/1 with odds boost. It was a good bet at the Euros and there are several scenarios where that sort of collapse is replicated, including both Deal and No Deal.

    Similarly, LD on 30-40% at 20/1 is better value than LD most seats at 16/1, though I did get 500/1 on the latter after the 2017 GE.

    How did they do in yesterday's by-elections?
    Two holds and a gain from con one con gain from ind
  • HYUFD said:

    isam said:

    Noo said:

    I’m going to Hartlepool on Sunday. I will report back... 🙄

    There will be a lot of anger up there: an anger over Brexit, for sure, but also with a political elite that has, for decades, ignored this anger and sought to impose its own considerations and priorities over an angry populace. They are angry.
    I think we have to be careful how we define "anger". I am angry that we had a referendum on something so important that was run in such a simplistic way and was distorted both during and after the debate, but I am not going to man the barricades. Equally I am angry that Boris Johnson and the right wing entryists have wrecked the Conservative Party, but I am not about to do anything illegal to vent my spleen. People can be "angry", but there is a fundamental difference between being highly annoyed politically and civil unrest.
    I think as always it's a tiny minority who are overexcitable and actively want some kind of violence. And even of those, only a small number would have the bottle to do anything about it. And of those, a small minority would have the wit to do anything effective.

    It's like on here. Those who talk up civil war number about 3, and one of those was stupid enough to actually make direct threats ("perhaps my punch in your fat smug, pig-ugly face will persuade you.. perhaps a bomb... we will come for you first"). I assume that person will be ejected from these boards when the moderators wake up. Certainly if they said these things in public they would be arrested and that's maybe the end of their insurrection.

    The point is, you need to be angry enough to want violence, brave enough to commit it yourself, and discreet enough to keep your head down and not be noticed, and clever enough to think up something effective. There's almost nobody who fits those criteria.
    +1. The people who come out with this crap hope that it might frighten people into acquiescing to their extremist viewpoint.

    That is no better than the extremist who killed Jo Cox
    Don't be an idiot. It is stupid and repulsive, and I say that as someone that loathes Farage. But no better? Really you do need to understand the difference between something stupid and provocative and an actual murder. They are a slightly different order of magnitude
  • PulpstarPulpstar Posts: 78,215
    I expect most Biden voters were watching the Bucs-Panthers game last night. Probably a good thing for him.
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