The Leave vote has splintered. That is what we are seeing! I suspect many who voted Leave are having second thoughts. Simply no longer worth the hassle. Chasing after the Leave vote for the next GE is like trying to find the end of a rainbow or mirage. The tide has turned and the Tories for instance are likley to be left on the shooreline. An interesting parellel to Brexit is when the miners strike came to a halt. I remember the way the miners marched claiming a moral victory when it was abundantly clear they had failed, if Brexit is cancelled the Brexiteers should honour the defeat but remember the cost of no deal would have been something totally unacceptable to UK society. A deal to Leave would have been acceptable, No Deal a catastrophy...
If you think we will honour having democracy wrecked then you are utterly mad. You and your kind have done your best to overturn a democratic vote and you will reap what you sowed. There will be no peace and no reconciliation.
The deal could be amended to include a second EU ref . So could blow up in Bozos face.
If Leavers are so confident that they are still in the majority, why are they so frit by a second referendum?
Is it because they might lose?
They are the biggest chickens around. Growth hormones and all.
It is because you dont just re-run polls you lose.
🐔
Not really. Im not afraid of a second poll. I voted remain the first time but would certainly vote leave now.
But i recognise the immense damage such a vote would do.
Haha. If public opinion hasn’t changed there is nothing to lose by having a 2nd ref. If it has changed, then why should we implement something the public doesn’t want?
Frit. Frit. Frit.
I really am not. And the point is a simple one. Of principle. You dont re-run polls just because you lose. If you treat the referendum result as somehow illegitimate then why should any leaver in future accept a poll result they dont agree with?
The deal could be amended to include a second EU ref . So could blow up in Bozos face.
If Leavers are so confident that they are still in the majority, why are they so frit by a second referendum?
Is it because they might lose?
Its because they believe in democracy which involves actually acting on the result of a vote rather than just ignoring it.
Nope. You guys know you have failed and you’re scared of that being found out.
I am scared of what this country will become when millions of people realise democracy is a fraud.
Why should you accept a democratic vote again? I for one would refuse to accept a Corbyn government as the legitimate Government of this country even if it won enough seats to form a government and would begin hard headed resistance the very next day as would most of the right I suspect. It would be as close to all out war as we get in peacetime
The deal could be amended to include a second EU ref . So could blow up in Bozos face.
If Leavers are so confident that they are still in the majority, why are they so frit by a second referendum?
Is it because they might lose?
Its because they believe in democracy which involves actually acting on the result of a vote rather than just ignoring it.
Nope. You guys know you have failed and you’re scared of that being found out.
I am scared of what this country will become when millions of people realise democracy is a fraud.
Why should you accept a democratic vote again? I for one would refuse to accept a Corbyn government as the legitimate Government and would begin hard headed resistance the very next day
By asking for another election? That’s what always happens. That is normal.
The deal could be amended to include a second EU ref . So could blow up in Bozos face.
If Leavers are so confident that they are still in the majority, why are they so frit by a second referendum?
Is it because they might lose?
Its because they believe in democracy which involves actually acting on the result of a vote rather than just ignoring it.
Nope. You guys know you have failed and you’re scared of that being found out.
I am scared of what this country will become when millions of people realise democracy is a fraud.
Why should you accept a democratic vote again? I for one would refuse to accept a Corbyn government as the legitimate Government and would begin hard headed resistance the very next day as would most of the right I suspect. It would be as close to all out war as we get in peacetime
The deal could be amended to include a second EU ref . So could blow up in Bozos face.
If Leavers are so confident that they are still in the majority, why are they so frit by a second referendum?
Is it because they might lose?
They are the biggest chickens around. Growth hormones and all.
It is because you dont just re-run polls you lose.
🐔
Not really. Im not afraid of a second poll. I voted remain the first time but would certainly vote leave now.
But i recognise the immense damage such a vote would do.
Haha. If public opinion hasn’t changed there is nothing to lose by having a 2nd ref. If it has changed, then why should we implement something the public doesn’t want?
Frit. Frit. Frit.
I really am not. And the point is a simple one. Of principle. You dont re-run polls just because you lose. If you treat the referendum result as somehow illegitimate then why should any leaver in future accept a poll result they dont agree with?
Who cares if future votes are reran? If public opinion hasn’t changed then neither will the result.
Let us say the vote is 48/52 to remain. 48% will have voted to leave...twice...and been ignored.
That doesnt look to me a recipe for national success or a resolution of the problem.
So Swinson still holds the balance of power and would veto Corbyn as as PM
Good. The perfect election result. Johnson humiliated and finished, Corbyn powerless, the UK moving back to sanity. It’s too good to be true. I can’t see it happening.
The Leave vote has splintered. That is what we are seeing! I suspect many who voted Leave are having second thoughts. Simply no longer worth the hassle. Chasing after the Leave vote for the next GE is like trying to find the end of a rainbow or mirage. The tide has turned and the Tories for instance are likley to be left on the shooreline. An interesting parellel to Brexit is when the miners strike came to a halt. I remember the way the miners marched claiming a moral victory when it was abundantly clear they had failed, if Brexit is cancelled the Brexiteers should honour the defeat but remember the cost of no deal would have been something totally unacceptable to UK society. A deal to Leave would have been acceptable, No Deal a catastrophy...
If you think we will honour having democracy wrecked then you are utterly mad. You and your kind have done your best to overturn a democratic vote and you will reap what you sowed. There will be no peace and no reconciliation.
Yawn. It is deathcult leavers who are doing this. Feel the guilt.
Why should I feel the guilt? I have always argued for a soft Brexit. It is all those scum in Parliament on all sides who voted against a deal who are responsible for the chaos. Along with the scum outside who refused to accept the result.
The deal could be amended to include a second EU ref . So could blow up in Bozos face.
If Leavers are so confident that they are still in the majority, why are they so frit by a second referendum?
Is it because they might lose?
They are the biggest chickens around. Growth hormones and all.
It is because you dont just re-run polls you lose.
🐔
Not really. Im not afraid of a second poll. I voted remain the first time but would certainly vote leave now.
But i recognise the immense damage such a vote would do.
Haha. If public opinion hasn’t changed there is nothing to lose by having a 2nd ref. If it has changed, then why should we implement something the public doesn’t want?
Frit. Frit. Frit.
I really am not. And the point is a simple one. Of principle. You dont re-run polls just because you lose. If you treat the referendum result as somehow illegitimate then why should any leaver in future accept a poll result they dont agree with?
Who cares if future votes are reran? If public opinion hasn’t changed then neither will the result.
Let us say the vote is 48/52 to remain. 48% will have voted to leave...twice...and been ignored.
That doesnt look to me a recipe for national success or a resolution of the problem.
No. It means there is now a majority in the country for Remain. Why should we leave if public opinion has changed?
The Leave vote has splintered. That is what we are seeing! I suspect many who voted Leave are having second thoughts. Simply no longer worth the hassle. Chasing after the Leave vote for the next GE is like trying to find the end of a rainbow or mirage. The tide has turned and the Tories for instance are likley to be left on the shooreline. An interesting parellel to Brexit is when the miners strike came to a halt. I remember the way the miners marched claiming a moral victory when it was abundantly clear they had failed, if Brexit is cancelled the Brexiteers should honour the defeat but remember the cost of no deal would have been something totally unacceptable to UK society. A deal to Leave would have been acceptable, No Deal a catastrophy...
If you think we will honour having democracy wrecked then you are utterly mad. You and your kind have done your best to overturn a democratic vote and you will reap what you sowed. There will be no peace and no reconciliation.
more civil war fantasies. boring.
It is not a fantasy to suggest that ignoring and then reversing the biggest peacetime vote in British history will not be an act without consequences....
The Leave vote has splintered. That is what we are seeing! I suspect many who voted Leave are having second thoughts. Simply no longer worth the hassle. Chasing after the Leave vote for the next GE is like trying to find the end of a rainbow or mirage. The tide has turned and the Tories for instance are likley to be left on the shooreline. An interesting parellel to Brexit is when the miners strike came to a halt. I remember the way the miners marched claiming a moral victory when it was abundantly clear they had failed, if Brexit is cancelled the Brexiteers should honour the defeat but remember the cost of no deal would have been something totally unacceptable to UK society. A deal to Leave would have been acceptable, No Deal a catastrophy...
If you think we will honour having democracy wrecked then you are utterly mad. You and your kind have done your best to overturn a democratic vote and you will reap what you sowed. There will be no peace and no reconciliation.
Yawn. It is deathcult leavers who are doing this. Feel the guilt.
Why should I feel the guilt? I have always argued for a soft Brexit. It is all those scum in Parliament on all sides who voted against a deal who are responsible for the chaos. Along with the scum outside who refused to accept the result.
Who are you calling scum? Wanting another democratic vote does not make one scum. You’re just afraid of the result. Why are you afraid of democracy?
The deal could be amended to include a second EU ref . So could blow up in Bozos face.
If Leavers are so confident that they are still in the majority, why are they so frit by a second referendum?
Is it because they might lose?
They are the biggest chickens around. Growth hormones and all.
It is because you dont just re-run polls you lose.
🐔
Not really. Im not afraid of a second poll. I voted remain the first time but would certainly vote leave now.
But i recognise the immense damage such a vote would do.
Haha. If public opinion hasn’t changed there is nothing to lose by having a 2nd ref. If it has changed, then why should we implement something the public doesn’t want?
Frit. Frit. Frit.
I really am not. And the point is a simple one. Of principle. You dont re-run polls just because you lose. If you treat the referendum result as somehow illegitimate then why should any leaver in future accept a poll result they dont agree with?
Who cares if future votes are reran? If public opinion hasn’t changed then neither will the result.
Let us say the vote is 48/52 to remain. 48% will have voted to leave...twice...and been ignored.
That doesnt look to me a recipe for national success or a resolution of the problem.
No. It means there is now a majority in the country for Remain. Why should we leave if public opinion has changed?
This is a simple point which you are refusing to even acknowledge let alone accept.
It's even harder to claim there is a mandate for Remain.
Nah, intelligent and long standing Leavers like Casino Royale know what No Deal means.
What is that "damage"? Can you spell it out? With certainty?
Your posts are consistent (some might even say "relentless") on the topic. But what would be the actual effects of such a no deal scenario?
No Deal means UK citizens and businesses being less free than they are now - and the UK government having less control. Those are facts. The rest is unknowable.
The Leave vote has splintered. That is what we are seeing! I suspect many who voted Leave are having second thoughts. Simply no longer worth the hassle. Chasing after the Leave vote for the next GE is like trying to find the end of a rainbow or mirage. The tide has turned and the Tories for instance are likley to be left on the shooreline. An interesting parellel to Brexit is when the miners strike came to a halt. I remember the way the miners marched claiming a moral victory when it was abundantly clear they had failed, if Brexit is cancelled the Brexiteers should honour the defeat but remember the cost of no deal would have been something totally unacceptable to UK society. A deal to Leave would have been acceptable, No Deal a catastrophy...
If you think we will honour having democracy wrecked then you are utterly mad. You and your kind have done your best to overturn a democratic vote and you will reap what you sowed. There will be no peace and no reconciliation.
more civil war fantasies. boring.
It is not a fantasy to suggest that ignoring and then reversing the biggest peacetime vote in British history will not be an act without consequences....
It would be the people ignoring democracy, with democracy.
The deal could be amended to include a second EU ref . So could blow up in Bozos face.
If Leavers are so confident that they are still in the majority, why are they so frit by a second referendum?
Is it because they might lose?
They are the biggest chickens around. Growth hormones and all.
It is because you dont just re-run polls you lose.
🐔
Not really. Im not afraid of a second poll. I voted remain the first time but would certainly vote leave now.
But i recognise the immense damage such a vote would do.
Haha. If public opinion hasn’t changed there is nothing to lose by having a 2nd ref. If it has changed, then why should we implement something the public doesn’t want?
Frit. Frit. Frit.
I really am not. And the point is a simple one. Of principle. You dont re-run polls just because you lose. If you treat the referendum result as somehow illegitimate then why should any leaver in future accept a poll result they dont agree with?
Who cares if future votes are reran? If public opinion hasn’t changed then neither will the result.
Let us say the vote is 48/52 to remain. 48% will have voted to leave...twice...and been ignored.
That doesnt look to me a recipe for national success or a resolution of the problem.
No. It means there is now a majority in the country for Remain. Why should we leave if public opinion has changed?
Why should we accept that result? After all you didn't accept the last one.
It's even harder to claim there is a mandate for Remain.
Nah, intelligent and long standing Leavers like Casino Royale know what No Deal means.
What is that "damage"? Can you spell it out? With certainty?
Your posts are consistent (some might even say "relentless") on the topic. But what would be the actual effects of such a no deal scenario?
No Deal means UK citizens and businesses being less free than they are now - and the UK government having less control. Those are facts. The rest is unknowable.
The deal could be amended to include a second EU ref . So could blow up in Bozos face.
If Leavers are so confident that they are still in the majority, why are they so frit by a second referendum?
Is it because they might lose?
They are the biggest chickens around. Growth hormones and all.
It is because you dont just re-run polls you lose.
🐔
Not really. Im not afraid of a second poll. I voted remain the first time but would certainly vote leave now.
But i recognise the immense damage such a vote would do.
Haha. If public opinion hasn’t changed there is nothing to lose by having a 2nd ref. If it has changed, then why should we implement something the public doesn’t want?
Frit. Frit. Frit.
I really am not. And the point is a simple one. Of principle. You dont re-run polls just because you lose. If you treat the referendum result as somehow illegitimate then why should any leaver in future accept a poll result they dont agree with?
Who cares if future votes are reran? If public opinion hasn’t changed then neither will the result.
Let us say the vote is 48/52 to remain. 48% will have voted to leave...twice...and been ignored.
That doesnt look to me a recipe for national success or a resolution of the problem.
It does to me. All those leavers who sneered "you lost get over it" will immediately get over it, won't they? No? Ah well.
The deal could be amended to include a second EU ref . So could blow up in Bozos face.
If Leavers are so confident that they are still in the majority, why are they so frit by a second referendum?
Is it because they might lose?
They are the biggest chickens around. Growth hormones and all.
It is because you dont just re-run polls you lose.
🐔
Not really. Im not afraid of a second poll. I voted remain the first time but would certainly vote leave now.
But i recognise the immense damage such a vote would do.
Haha. If public opinion hasn’t changed there is nothing to lose by having a 2nd ref. If it has changed, then why should we implement something the public doesn’t want?
Frit. Frit. Frit.
I really am not. And the point is a simple one. Of principle. You dont re-run polls just because you lose. If you treat the referendum result as somehow illegitimate then why should any leaver in future accept a poll result they dont agree with?
Who cares if future votes are reran? If public opinion hasn’t changed then neither will the result.
Let us say the vote is 48/52 to remain. 48% will have voted to leave...twice...and been ignored.
That doesnt look to me a recipe for national success or a resolution of the problem.
No. It means there is now a majority in the country for Remain. Why should we leave if public opinion has changed?
This is a simple point which you are refusing to even acknowledge let alone accept.
Dull, And pointless.
No. You have no logic on your side. You are just upset that the one chance of Brexit is slipping away.
I do hope the story about increasing foreign student numbers is correct . This could be one Bozo policy where I actually agree .
Me too. I never could fathom the attempt to discourage Overseas students. It is one area we run a huge balance of payments surplus. As well as soft power and influence.
The Leave vote has splintered. That is what we are seeing! I suspect many who voted Leave are having second thoughts. Simply no longer worth the hassle. Chasing after the Leave vote for the next GE is like trying to find the end of a rainbow or mirage. The tide has turned and the Tories for instance are likley to be left on the shooreline. An interesting parellel to Brexit is when the miners strike came to a halt. I remember the way the miners marched claiming a moral victory when it was abundantly clear they had failed, if Brexit is cancelled the Brexiteers should honour the defeat but remember the cost of no deal would have been something totally unacceptable to UK society. A deal to Leave would have been acceptable, No Deal a catastrophy...
If you think we will honour having democracy wrecked then you are utterly mad. You and your kind have done your best to overturn a democratic vote and you will reap what you sowed. There will be no peace and no reconciliation.
Yawn. It is deathcult leavers who are doing this. Feel the guilt.
Why should I feel the guilt? I have always argued for a soft Brexit. It is all those scum in Parliament on all sides who voted against a deal who are responsible for the chaos. Along with the scum outside who refused to accept the result.
Who are you calling scum? Wanting another democratic vote does not make one scum. You’re just afraid of the result. Why are you afraid of democracy?
"Democracy". A word forever on your lips until you dont like the result....
The deal could be amended to include a second EU ref . So could blow up in Bozos face.
If Leavers are so confident that they are still in the majority, why are they so frit by a second referendum?
Is it because they might lose?
They are the biggest chickens around. Growth hormones and all.
It is because you dont just re-run polls you lose.
🐔
Not really. Im not afraid of a second poll. I voted remain the first time but would certainly vote leave now.
But i recognise the immense damage such a vote would do.
Haha. If public opinion hasn’t changed there is nothing to lose by having a 2nd ref. If it has changed, then why should we implement something the public doesn’t want?
Frit. Frit. Frit.
I really am not. And the point is a simple one. Of principle. You dont re-run polls just because you lose. If you treat the referendum result as somehow illegitimate then why should any leaver in future accept a poll result they dont agree with?
Who cares if future votes are reran? If public opinion hasn’t changed then neither will the result.
Let us say the vote is 48/52 to remain. 48% will have voted to leave...twice...and been ignored.
That doesnt look to me a recipe for national success or a resolution of the problem.
No. It means there is now a majority in the country for Remain. Why should we leave if public opinion has changed?
Why should we accept that result? After all you didn't accept the last one.
I’d be happy to have a 3rd vote after if you’d prefer.
It seems a long time ago that ComRes were predicting a 150 seat landslide for Boris Johnson during the Tory leadership contest.
Comres swings all over the place and has the highest Labour figures of any pollster, of course any Boris win depends on him committing to deliver Brexit
Pre-Boris the tories polled circa 10% in the euros.
Doesnt look like its a failing strategy to me....
Euro elections shouldn't be compared to General elections:
Recent EU elections have actually been a poor guide to the winning party’s fortunes at the subsequent general election. In their regally purple heyday, UKIP under their ex-leader Nigel Farage won the largest share of the vote and the most seats at the most recent EU election in 2014, but their vote halved at the GE the following year, winning only one MP. By contrast, the Tories under David Cameron won the previous 2009 EU election, whilst they were in opposition, and then went on to become largest party at the 2010 GE, and the larger party in the ensuing Con-LibDem coalition. And in 2014, the Tories came a poor third, behind UKIP and Labour, but then went on to win an outright majority at GE 2015. However, Labour were the first governing party to come third in a EU election, in 2009, trailing the Tories and UKIP on vote-share, but equalling UKIP on seats.
The deal could be amended to include a second EU ref . So could blow up in Bozos face.
If Leavers are so confident that they are still in the majority, why are they so frit by a second referendum?
Is it because they might lose?
Its because they believe in democracy which involves actually acting on the result of a vote rather than just ignoring it.
Nope. You guys know you have failed and you’re scared of that being found out.
I am scared of what this country will become when millions of people realise democracy is a fraud.
Why should you accept a democratic vote again? I for one would refuse to accept a Corbyn government as the legitimate Government and would begin hard headed resistance the very next day
By asking for another election? That’s what always happens. That is normal.
No, refusing to accept the result straightaway exactly as diehard Remainers have and doing everything possible to prevent Corbyn forming a government or being able to govern
The deal could be amended to include a second EU ref . So could blow up in Bozos face.
If Leavers are so confident that they are still in the majority, why are they so frit by a second referendum?
Is it because they might lose?
They are the biggest chickens around. Growth hormones and all.
It is because you dont just re-run polls you lose.
🐔
Not really. Im not afraid of a second poll. I voted remain the first time but would certainly vote leave now.
But i recognise the immense damage such a vote would do.
Haha. If public opinion hasn’t changed there is nothing to lose by having a 2nd ref. If it has changed, then why should we implement something the public doesn’t want?
Frit. Frit. Frit.
I really am not. And the point is a simple one. Of principle. You dont re-run polls just because you lose. If you treat the referendum result as somehow illegitimate then why should any leaver in future accept a poll result they dont agree with?
Who cares if future votes are reran? If public opinion hasn’t changed then neither will the result.
Let us say the vote is 48/52 to remain. 48% will have voted to leave...twice...and been ignored.
That doesnt look to me a recipe for national success or a resolution of the problem.
It does to me. All those leavers who sneered "you lost get over it" will immediately get over it, won't they? No? Ah well.
The deal could be amended to include a second EU ref . So could blow up in Bozos face.
If Leavers are so confident that they are still in the majority, why are they so frit by a second referendum?
Is it because they might lose?
Its because they believe in democracy which involves actually acting on the result of a vote rather than just ignoring it.
Nope. You guys know you have failed and you’re scared of that being found out.
I am scared of what this country will become when millions of people realise democracy is a fraud.
Why should you accept a democratic vote again? I for one would refuse to accept a Corbyn government as the legitimate Government and would begin hard headed resistance the very next day
By asking for another election? That’s what always happens. That is normal.
No, refusing to accept the result straightaway exactly as diehard Remainers have and doing everything possible to prevent Corbyn forming a government or being able to govern
The deal could be amended to include a second EU ref . So could blow up in Bozos face.
If Leavers are so confident that they are still in the majority, why are they so frit by a second referendum?
Is it because they might lose?
Its because they believe in democracy which involves actually acting on the result of a vote rather than just ignoring it.
Nope. You guys know you have failed and you’re scared of that being found out.
I am scared of what this country will become when millions of people realise democracy is a fraud.
And that's exactly what's going to happen I think.
This week was our last chance to restore something resembling a rational government/parliament through a general election.
Now complete chaos and disaster awaits. I have no idea where this ends but all outcomes are terrible from here.
All outcomes have been terrible since the Leave campaign cheated to win. I choose terrible without a profound economic shock over terrible with one. You make your own choice.
It seems a long time ago that ComRes were predicting a 150 seat landslide for Boris Johnson during the Tory leadership contest.
Comres swings all over the place and has the highest Labour figures of any pollster, of course any Boris win depends on him committing to deliver Brexit
Pre-Boris the tories polled circa 10% in the euros.
Doesnt look like its a failing strategy to me....
The final Comres before Boris took over had Labour 4% ahead
The deal could be amended to include a second EU ref . So could blow up in Bozos face.
If Leavers are so confident that they are still in the majority, why are they so frit by a second referendum?
Is it because they might lose?
They are the biggest chickens around. Growth hormones and all.
It is because you dont just re-run polls you lose.
🐔
Not really. Im not afraid of a second poll. I voted remain the first time but would certainly vote leave now.
But i recognise the immense damage such a vote would do.
Haha. If public opinion hasn’t changed there is nothing to lose by having a 2nd ref. If it has changed, then why should we implement something the public doesn’t want?
Frit. Frit. Frit.
I really am not. And the point is a simple one. Of principle. You dont re-run polls just because you lose. If you treat the referendum result as somehow illegitimate then why should any leaver in future accept a poll result they dont agree with?
Who cares if future votes are reran? If public opinion hasn’t changed then neither will the result.
Let us say the vote is 48/52 to remain. 48% will have voted to leave...twice...and been ignored.
That doesnt look to me a recipe for national success or a resolution of the problem.
It does to me. All those leavers who sneered "you lost get over it" will immediately get over it, won't they? No? Ah well.
Goodness gracious...Lib Dems Down, Labour 1 point behind...
As ever, best to look at the No Deal/anti-No Deal party split, rather than the individual party scores IMO. This poll is at the top end for the anti-No Dealers, but within the regular range.
I do hope the story about increasing foreign student numbers is correct . This could be one Bozo policy where I actually agree .
Me too. I never could fathom the attempt to discourage Overseas students. It is one area we run a huge balance of payments surplus. As well as soft power and influence.
It was down to Mays obsession with immigration . As it turned out the government had completely over estimated how many over stayed.
The deal could be amended to include a second EU ref . So could blow up in Bozos face.
If Leavers are so confident that they are still in the majority, why are they so frit by a second referendum?
Is it because they might lose?
Its because they believe in democracy which involves actually acting on the result of a vote rather than just ignoring it.
Nope. You guys know you have failed and you’re scared of that being found out.
I am scared of what this country will become when millions of people realise democracy is a fraud.
Why should you accept a democratic vote again? I for one would refuse to accept a Corbyn government as the legitimate Government of this country even if it won enough seats to form a government and would begin hard headed resistance the very next day as would most of the right I suspect. It would be as close to all out war as we get in peacetime
It seems a long time ago that ComRes were predicting a 150 seat landslide for Boris Johnson during the Tory leadership contest.
Comres swings all over the place and has the highest Labour figures of any pollster, of course any Boris win depends on him committing to deliver Brexit
Pre-Boris the tories polled circa 10% in the euros.
Doesnt look like its a failing strategy to me....
Euro elections shouldn't be compared to General elections:
Recent EU elections have actually been a poor guide to the winning party’s fortunes at the subsequent general election. In their regally purple heyday, UKIP under their ex-leader Nigel Farage won the largest share of the vote and the most seats at the most recent EU election in 2014, but their vote halved at the GE the following year, winning only one MP. By contrast, the Tories under David Cameron won the previous 2009 EU election, whilst they were in opposition, and then went on to become largest party at the 2010 GE, and the larger party in the ensuing Con-LibDem coalition. And in 2014, the Tories came a poor third, behind UKIP and Labour, but then went on to win an outright majority at GE 2015. However, Labour were the first governing party to come third in a EU election, in 2009, trailing the Tories and UKIP on vote-share, but equalling UKIP on seats.
So what was the TRUE Tory vote share at that time, oh wise one?
The deal could be amended to include a second EU ref . So could blow up in Bozos face.
If Leavers are so confident that they are still in the majority, why are they so frit by a second referendum?
Is it because they might lose?
They are the biggest chickens around. Growth hormones and all.
It is because you dont just re-run polls you lose.
🐔
Not really. Im not afraid of a second poll. I voted remain the first time but would certainly vote leave now.
But i recognise the immense damage such a vote would do.
Haha. If public opinion hasn’t changed there is nothing to lose by having a 2nd ref. If it has changed, then why should we implement something the public doesn’t want?
Frit. Frit. Frit.
I really am not. And the point is a simple one. Of principle. You dont re-run polls just because you lose. If you treat the referendum result as somehow illegitimate then why should any leaver in future accept a poll result they dont agree with?
Who cares if future votes are reran? If public opinion hasn’t changed then neither will the result.
Let us say the vote is 48/52 to remain. 48% will have voted to leave...twice...and been ignored.
That doesnt look to me a recipe for national success or a resolution of the problem.
No. It means there is now a majority in the country for Remain. Why should we leave if public opinion has changed?
Why should we accept that result? After all you didn't accept the last one.
I’d be happy to have a 3rd vote after if you’d prefer.
Might I suggest a little more water with whatever you are drinking tonight?
The deal could be amended to include a second EU ref . So could blow up in Bozos face.
If Leavers are so confident that they are still in the majority, why are they so frit by a second referendum?
Is it because they might lose?
Its because they believe in democracy which involves actually acting on the result of a vote rather than just ignoring it.
Nope. You guys know you have failed and you’re scared of that being found out.
I am scared of what this country will become when millions of people realise democracy is a fraud.
Why should you accept a democratic vote again? I for one would refuse to accept a Corbyn government as the legitimate Government and would begin hard headed resistance the very next day
By asking for another election? That’s what always happens. That is normal.
No, refusing to accept the result straightaway exactly as diehard Remainers have and doing everything possible to prevent Corbyn forming a government or being able to govern
Why are you afraid of democracy?
Why are you? If the Leave vote is never implemented then it is all out war in all but name given democratic votes are not respected by the die hard Remainer side and the left why should Leavers and the Right respect it when they win?
The deal could be amended to include a second EU ref . So could blow up in Bozos face.
If Leavers are so confident that they are still in the majority, why are they so frit by a second referendum?
Is it because they might lose?
They are the biggest chickens around. Growth hormones and all.
It is because you dont just re-run polls you lose.
🐔
Not really. Im not afraid of a second poll. I voted remain the first time but would certainly vote leave now.
But i recognise the immense damage such a vote would do.
Haha. If public opinion hasn’t changed there is nothing to lose by having a 2nd ref. If it has changed, then why should we implement something the public doesn’t want?
Frit. Frit. Frit.
I really am not. And the point is a simple one. Of principle. You dont re-run polls just because you lose. If you treat the referendum result as somehow illegitimate then why should any leaver in future accept a poll result they dont agree with?
Who cares if future votes are reran? If public opinion hasn’t changed then neither will the result.
Let us say the vote is 48/52 to remain. 48% will have voted to leave...twice...and been ignored.
That doesnt look to me a recipe for national success or a resolution of the problem.
No. It means there is now a majority in the country for Remain. Why should we leave if public opinion has changed?
Why should we accept that result? After all you didn't accept the last one.
I’d be happy to have a 3rd vote after if you’d prefer.
Might I suggest a little more water with whatever you are drinking tonight?
So you are unable to form a logical retort. Thank you.
The deal could be amended to include a second EU ref . So could blow up in Bozos face.
If Leavers are so confident that they are still in the majority, why are they so frit by a second referendum?
Is it because they might lose?
Its because they believe in democracy which involves actually acting on the result of a vote rather than just ignoring it.
Nope. You guys know you have failed and you’re scared of that being found out.
I am scared of what this country will become when millions of people realise democracy is a fraud.
Why should you accept a democratic vote again? I for one would refuse to accept a Corbyn government as the legitimate Government of this country even if it won enough seats to form a government and would begin hard headed resistance the very next day as would most of the right I suspect. It would be as close to all out war as we get in peacetime
You'd do nothing of the sort.
I cant speak for HYUFD but im not sure either that you can speak for what others who voted leave might or might not do...
The Leave vote has splintered. That is what we are seeing! I suspect many who voted Leave are having second thoughts. Simply no longer worth the hassle. Chasing after the Leave vote for the next GE is like trying to find the end of a rainbow or mirage. The tide has turned and the Tories for instance are likley to be left on the shooreline. An interesting parellel to Brexit is when the miners strike came to a halt. I remember the way the miners marched claiming a moral victory when it was abundantly clear they had failed, if Brexit is cancelled the Brexiteers should honour the defeat but remember the cost of no deal would have been something totally unacceptable to UK society. A deal to Leave would have been acceptable, No Deal a catastrophy...
If you think we will honour having democracy wrecked then you are utterly mad. You and your kind have done your best to overturn a democratic vote and you will reap what you sowed. There will be no peace and no reconciliation.
Yawn. It is deathcult leavers who are doing this. Feel the guilt.
Why should I feel the guilt? I have always argued for a soft Brexit. It is all those scum in Parliament on all sides who voted against a deal who are responsible for the chaos. Along with the scum outside who refused to accept the result.
Who are you calling scum? Wanting another democratic vote does not make one scum. You’re just afraid of the result. Why are you afraid of democracy?
"Democracy". A word forever on your lips until you dont like the result....
It's not a foregone conclusion, we you could still win again. But why are we you so afraid of losing?
The deal could be amended to include a second EU ref . So could blow up in Bozos face.
If Leavers are so confident that they are still in the majority, why are they so frit by a second referendum?
Is it because they might lose?
Its because they believe in democracy which involves actually acting on the result of a vote rather than just ignoring it.
Nope. You guys know you have failed and you’re scared of that being found out.
I am scared of what this country will become when millions of people realise democracy is a fraud.
Why should you accept a democratic vote again? I for one would refuse to accept a Corbyn government as the legitimate Government and would begin hard headed resistance the very next day
By asking for another election? That’s what always happens. That is normal.
No, refusing to accept the result straightaway exactly as diehard Remainers have and doing everything possible to prevent Corbyn forming a government or being able to govern
Why are you afraid of democracy?
Why are you? If the Leave vote is never implemented then it is all out war in all but name given democratic votes are not respected by the die hard Remainer side and the left why should Leavers and the Right respect it when they win?
You haven’t answered my question. Why are you afraid of a 2nd referendum? If it is the will of the people, the result will be the same. Nothing lost.
I was previously of the view that the ballot paper just said leave so it was legitimate to leave deal or no deal. Madness but legitimate.
Having seen now the two pledges in the manifestos I think it is legitimate for MPs to frustrate a no deal brexit. Both parties clearly campaigned either for a deal or an orderly exit.
What other choice did they have? "It's going to be difficult and painful, but probably worth it in 20yrs because we can implement US rules as opposed to EU rules" does not sound like a vote winner to me.
The Leave vote has splintered. That is what we are seeing! I suspect many who voted Leave are having second thoughts. Simply no longer worth the hassle. Chasing after the Leave vote for the next GE is like trying to find the end of a rainbow or mirage. The tide has turned and the Tories for instance are likley to be left on the shooreline. An interesting parellel to Brexit is when the miners strike came to a halt. I remember the way the miners marched claiming a moral victory when it was abundantly clear they had failed, if Brexit is cancelled the Brexiteers should honour the defeat but remember the cost of no deal would have been something totally unacceptable to UK society. A deal to Leave would have been acceptable, No Deal a catastrophy...
There's no evidence of that from the headline numbers in the opinion polls. The Conservative + Brexit Party aggregate is steady in the range 44-49% so if the Tories have lost some moderate Remain support it has been balanced by Leavers leaving Labour in the other direction.
I wish it were otherwise, but I don't see it.
How many seats for the BXP do you think (assuming the latest random number generator / poll is right)
The deal could be amended to include a second EU ref . So could blow up in Bozos face.
If Leavers are so confident that they are still in the majority, why are they so frit by a second referendum?
Is it because they might lose?
Its because they believe in democracy which involves actually acting on the result of a vote rather than just ignoring it.
Nope. You guys know you have failed and you’re scared of that being found out.
I am scared of what this country will become when millions of people realise democracy is a fraud.
Why should you accept a democratic vote again? I for one would refuse to accept a Corbyn government as the legitimate Government and would begin hard headed resistance the very next day
By asking for another election? That’s what always happens. That is normal.
No, refusing to accept the result straightaway exactly as diehard Remainers have and doing everything possible to prevent Corbyn forming a government or being able to govern
Why are you afraid of democracy?
Why are you? If the Leave vote is never implemented then it is all out war in all but name given democratic votes are not respected by the die hard Remainer side and the left why should Leavers and the Right respect it when they win?
You haven’t answered my question. Why are you afraid of a 2nd referendum? If it is the will of the people, the result will be the same. Nothing lost.
Because it is profoundly UNdemocratic to re-run elections you lose just because you lost.
Leave-supporting MPs should have indeed voted for it. Yes, I agree with you there.
All MPs should have as a matter of course, if they meant what they said about honouring the result of the referendum. Unfortunately they are too full of their own self importance to do the right thing.
If you wanted to leave, your fellow travellers in parliament had their chance to do it.
They chose not to.
No you’re wrong. Many Remain MPs were elected in a pledge to leave with a deal, and have voted against a deal three times.
The deal could be amended to include a second EU ref . So could blow up in Bozos face.
If Leavers are so confident that they are still in the majority, why are they so frit by a second referendum?
Is it because they might lose?
Its because they believe in democracy which involves actually acting on the result of a vote rather than just ignoring it.
Nope. You guys know you have failed and you’re scared of that being found out.
I am scared of what this country will become when millions of people realise democracy is a fraud.
Why should you accept a democratic vote again? I for one would refuse to accept a Corbyn government as the legitimate Government of this country even if it won enough seats to form a government and would begin hard headed resistance the very next day as would most of the right I suspect. It would be as close to all out war as we get in peacetime
You'd do nothing of the sort.
I cant speak for HYUFD but im not sure either that you can speak for what others who voted leave might or might not do...
I'm sure I can speak for him. He'd do nothing of the sort.
Leave-supporting MPs should have indeed voted for it. Yes, I agree with you there.
All MPs should have as a matter of course, if they meant what they said about honouring the result of the referendum. Unfortunately they are too full of their own self importance to do the right thing.
If you wanted to leave, your fellow travellers in parliament had their chance to do it.
They chose not to.
No you’re wrong. Many Remain MPs were elected in a pledge to leave with a deal, and have voted against a deal three times.
The deal could be amended to include a second EU ref . So could blow up in Bozos face.
If Leavers are so confident that they are still in the majority, why are they so frit by a second referendum?
Is it because they might lose?
Its because they believe in democracy which involves actually acting on the result of a vote rather than just ignoring it.
Nope. You guys know you have failed and you’re scared of that being found out.
I am scared of what this country will become when millions of people realise democracy is a fraud.
Why should you accept a democratic vote again? I for one would refuse to accept a Corbyn government as the legitimate Government and would begin hard headed resistance the very next day
By asking for another election? That’s what always happens. That is normal.
No, refusing to accept the result straightaway exactly as diehard Remainers have and doing everything possible to prevent Corbyn forming a government or being able to govern
Why are you afraid of democracy?
Why are you? If the Leave vote is never implemented then it is all out war in all but name given democratic votes are not respected by the die hard Remainer side and the left why should Leavers and the Right respect it when they win?
You haven’t answered my question. Why are you afraid of a 2nd referendum? If it is the will of the people, the result will be the same. Nothing lost.
Given the result if the first resukt still has not been respected there are no grounds for a second
The deal could be amended to include a second EU ref . So could blow up in Bozos face.
If Leavers are so confident that they are still in the majority, why are they so frit by a second referendum?
Is it because they might lose?
Its because they believe in democracy which involves actually acting on the result of a vote rather than just ignoring it.
Nope. You guys know you have failed and you’re scared of that being found out.
I am scared of what this country will become when millions of people realise democracy is a fraud.
Why should you accept a democratic vote again? I for one would refuse to accept a Corbyn government as the legitimate Government and would begin hard headed resistance the very next day
By asking for another election? That’s what always happens. That is normal.
No, refusing to accept the result straightaway exactly as diehard Remainers have and doing everything possible to prevent Corbyn forming a government or being able to govern
Why are you afraid of democracy?
Why are you? If the Leave vote is never implemented then it is all out war in all but name given democratic votes are not respected by the die hard Remainer side and the left why should Leavers and the Right respect it when they win?
You haven’t answered my question. Why are you afraid of a 2nd referendum? If it is the will of the people, the result will be the same. Nothing lost.
Because it is profoundly UNdemocratic to re-run elections you lose just because you lost.
The deal could be amended to include a second EU ref . So could blow up in Bozos face.
If Leavers are so confident that they are still in the majority, why are they so frit by a second referendum?
Is it because they might lose?
Its because they believe in democracy which involves actually acting on the result of a vote rather than just ignoring it.
Nope. You guys know you have failed and you’re scared of that being found out.
I am scared of what this country will become when millions of people realise democracy is a fraud.
Why should you accept a democratic vote again? I for one would refuse to accept a Corbyn government as the legitimate Government and would begin hard headed resistance the very next day
By asking for another election? That’s what always happens. That is normal.
No, refusing to accept the result straightaway exactly as diehard Remainers have and doing everything possible to prevent Corbyn forming a government or being able to govern
Why are you afraid of democracy?
Why are you? If the Leave vote is never implemented then it is all out war in all but name given democratic votes are not respected by the die hard Remainer side and the left why should Leavers and the Right respect it when they win?
You haven’t answered my question. Why are you afraid of a 2nd referendum? If it is the will of the people, the result will be the same. Nothing lost.
Given the result if the first resukt still has not been respected there are no grounds for a second
That is a cowardly nothing answer. I expected nothing less.
The Leave vote has splintered. That is what we are seeing! I suspect many who voted Leave are having second thoughts. Simply no longer worth the hassle. Chasing after the Leave vote for the next GE is like trying to find the end of a rainbow or mirage. The tide has turned and the Tories for instance are likley to be left on the shooreline. An interesting parellel to Brexit is when the miners strike came to a halt. I remember the way the miners marched claiming a moral victory when it was abundantly clear they had failed, if Brexit is cancelled the Brexiteers should honour the defeat but remember the cost of no deal would have been something totally unacceptable to UK society. A deal to Leave would have been acceptable, No Deal a catastrophy...
If you think we will honour having democracy wrecked then you are utterly mad. You and your kind have done your best to overturn a democratic vote and you will reap what you sowed. There will be no peace and no reconciliation.
Yawn. It is deathcult leavers who are doing this. Feel the guilt.
Why should I feel the guilt? I have always argued for a soft Brexit. It is all those scum in Parliament on all sides who voted against a deal who are responsible for the chaos. Along with the scum outside who refused to accept the result.
Who are you calling scum? Wanting another democratic vote does not make one scum. You’re just afraid of the result. Why are you afraid of democracy?
"Democracy". A word forever on your lips until you dont like the result....
It's not a foregone conclusion, we you could still win again. But why are we you so afraid of losing?
Ha ha ha...
I dont have to prove i voted remain and i dont much care what you think in that regard anyway.
As i have written above, it is profoundly undemocratic to re-run elections you lose just because you lost.
What none of the polls since MPs hatched and then passed the anti-No Deal legislation seem to have shown is a Tory surge. Even the two big leads from YouGov and Opinium were more about a divided opposition than growing support for Johnson.
The deal could be amended to include a second EU ref . So could blow up in Bozos face.
If Leavers are so confident that they are still in the majority, why are they so frit by a second referendum?
Is it because they might lose?
Its because they believe in democracy which involves actually acting on the result of a vote rather than just ignoring it.
Nope. You guys know you have failed and you’re scared of that being found out.
I am scared of what this country will become when millions of people realise democracy is a fraud.
Why should you accept a democratic vote again? I for one would refuse to accept a Corbyn government as the legitimate Government of this country even if it won enough seats to form a government and would begin hard headed resistance the very next day as would most of the right I suspect. It would be as close to all out war as we get in peacetime
You'd do nothing of the sort.
I cant speak for HYUFD but im not sure either that you can speak for what others who voted leave might or might not do...
I'm sure I can speak for him. He'd do nothing of the sort.
The deal could be amended to include a second EU ref . So could blow up in Bozos face.
If Leavers are so confident that they are still in the majority, why are they so frit by a second referendum?
Is it because they might lose?
Its because they believe in democracy which involves actually acting on the result of a vote rather than just ignoring it.
Nope. You guys know you have failed and you’re scared of that being found out.
I am scared of what this country will become when millions of people realise democracy is a fraud.
Why should you accept a democratic vote again? I for one would refuse to accept a Corbyn government as the legitimate Government and would begin hard headed resistance the very next day
By asking for another election? That’s what always happens. That is normal.
No, refusing to accept the result straightaway exactly as diehard Remainers have and doing everything possible to prevent Corbyn forming a government or being able to govern
Why are you afraid of democracy?
Why are you? If the Leave vote is never implemented then it is all out war in all but name given democratic votes are not respected by the die hard Remainer side and the left why should Leavers and the Right respect it when they win?
You haven’t answered my question. Why are you afraid of a 2nd referendum? If it is the will of the people, the result will be the same. Nothing lost.
Given the result if the first resukt still has not been respected there are no grounds for a second
That is a cowardly nothing answer. I expected nothing less.
No. Its the truth im afraid. As unpalatable as that may be for you.....
There is no damage caused by having a 2nd ref. That is nonsense. The only damage will be to sore loser Leavers who can’t accept that the public no longer wants Brexit after seeing the reality.
I strongly favour remaining in the EU, but a second referendum is unlikely to deliver a high turnout vote with a large majority for Remain, the sort of result that would indicate that several million people had genuinely changed their minds.
It's entirely possible that Leave could win a second referendum. Depending on the question on the ballot paper - eg if the Leave option is a deal with a backstop - then it is also possible that a successful boycott campaign would delegitimise the whole thing. What happens if Remain wins a second referendum by 15m votes to 10m? Sure the headline figure is a 60:40 emphatic victory (as Johnson might say), but it isn't really, is it?
I also don't think that we should exit without a deal, and I don't think it would be a good idea for MPs who oppose Leave to impose a deal on MPs who campaigned for Leave. Somehow we have to reach a compromise.
The only way I can think of is to go for a long extension and then involve ordinary voters - through a citizen's assembly - to convince MPs on both sides that they should support a compromise.
The deal could be amended to include a second EU ref . So could blow up in Bozos face.
If Leavers are so confident that they are still in the majority, why are they so frit by a second referendum?
Is it because they might lose?
Its because they believe in democracy which involves actually acting on the result of a vote rather than just ignoring it.
Nope. You guys know you have failed and you’re scared of that being found out.
I am scared of what this country will become when millions of people realise democracy is a fraud.
Why should you accept a democratic vote again? I for one would refuse to accept a Corbyn government as the legitimate Government and would begin hard headed resistance the very next day
By asking for another election? That’s what always happens. That is normal.
No, refusing to accept the result straightaway exactly as diehard Remainers have and doing everything possible to prevent Corbyn forming a government or being able to govern
Why are you afraid of democracy?
Why are you? If the Leave vote is never implemented then it is all out war in all but name given democratic votes are not respected by the die hard Remainer side and the left why should Leavers and the Right respect it when they win?
You haven’t answered my question. Why are you afraid of a 2nd referendum? If it is the will of the people, the result will be the same. Nothing lost.
Because it is profoundly UNdemocratic to re-run elections you lose just because you lost.
Says who? You? I disagree.
Fine.
But please dont cloak it in faux outrage about "democracy". Be honest that you dont like the result and want to re-run it, with all the consequences that brings...
What none of the polls since MPs hatched and then passed the anti-No Deal legislation seem to have shown is a Tory surge. Even the two big leads from YouGov and Opinium were more about a divided opposition than growing support for Johnson.
Tory support up from single figures to 35% seems a "surge" to me....
The deal could be amended to include a second EU ref . So could blow up in Bozos face.
If Leavers are so confident that they are still in the majority, why are they so frit by a second referendum?
Is it because they might lose?
Its because they believe in democracy which involves actually acting on the result of a vote rather than just ignoring it.
Nope. You guys know you have failed and you’re scared of that being found out.
I am scared of what this country will become when millions of people realise democracy is a fraud.
Why should you accept a democratic vote again? I for one would refuse to accept a Corbyn government as the legitimate Government and would begin hard headed resistance the very next day
By asking for another election? That’s what always happens. That is normal.
No, refusing to accept the result straightaway exactly as diehard Remainers have and doing everything possible to prevent Corbyn forming a government or being able to govern
Why are you afraid of democracy?
Why are you? If the Leave vote is never implemented then it is all out war in all but name given democratic votes are not respected by the die hard Remainer side and the left why should Leavers and the Right respect it when they win?
You haven’t answered my question. Why are you afraid of a 2nd referendum? If it is the will of the people, the result will be the same. Nothing lost.
Because it is profoundly UNdemocratic to re-run elections you lose just because you lost.
Says who? You? I disagree.
Fine.
But please dont cloak it in faux outrage about "democracy". Be honest that you dont like the result and want to re-run it, with all the consequences that brings...
Maybe you should also stop cloaking your faux outrage about democracy too. Be honest that you are worried Remain would now win, and all the consequences that brings.
Leave-supporting MPs should have indeed voted for it. Yes, I agree with you there.
All MPs should have as a matter of course, if they meant what they said about honouring the result of the referendum. Unfortunately they are too full of their own self importance to do the right thing.
If you wanted to leave, your fellow travellers in parliament had their chance to do it.
They chose not to.
No you’re wrong. Many Remain MPs were elected in a pledge to leave with a deal, and have voted against a deal three times.
They pledged to leave with a different deal.
The question was "leave" or "remain". The rest is sophistry or excuses...
The Leave vote has splintered. That is what we are seeing! I suspect many who voted Leave are having second thoughts. Simply no longer worth the hassle. Chasing after the Leave vote for the next GE is like trying to find the end of a rainbow or mirage. The tide has turned and the Tories for instance are likley to be left on the shooreline. An interesting parellel to Brexit is when the miners strike came to a halt. I remember the way the miners marched claiming a moral victory when it was abundantly clear they had failed, if Brexit is cancelled the Brexiteers should honour the defeat but remember the cost of no deal would have been something totally unacceptable to UK society. A deal to Leave would have been acceptable, No Deal a catastrophy...
If you think we will honour having democracy wrecked then you are utterly mad. You and your kind have done your best to overturn a democratic vote and you will reap what you sowed. There will be no peace and no reconciliation.
Yawn. It is deathcult leavers who are doing this. Feel the guilt.
Why should I feel the guilt? I have always argued for a soft Brexit. It is all those scum in Parliament on all sides who voted against a deal who are responsible for the chaos. Along with the scum outside who refused to accept the result.
Who are you calling scum? Wanting another democratic vote does not make one scum. You’re just afraid of the result. Why are you afraid of democracy?
"Democracy". A word forever on your lips until you dont like the result....
It's not a foregone conclusion, we you could still win again. But why are we you so afraid of losing?
Ha ha ha...
I dont have to prove i voted remain and i dont much care what you think in that regard anyway.
As i have written above, it is profoundly undemocratic to re-run elections you lose just because you lost.
I voted Leave - you know, Sunil "Be Leave" Prasannan
Pre referendum, the thought of Leave winning, but MPs blocking us leaving, would have been dismissed out of hand by almost everyone. @TheScreamingEagles mentioned it in a thread header, and said any Tory MP trying that move should expect to be deselected. Quite right.
The fact that so many, previously fair minded, people are happy to contort themselves into thinking that overturning the referendum result is a reasonable decision is probably the saddest thing to come out of the whole shebang.
“Father, forgive them; for they know not what they do.”
Leave-supporting MPs should have indeed voted for it. Yes, I agree with you there.
All MPs should have as a matter of course, if they meant what they said about honouring the result of the referendum. Unfortunately they are too full of their own self importance to do the right thing.
If you wanted to leave, your fellow travellers in parliament had their chance to do it.
They chose not to.
No you’re wrong. Many Remain MPs were elected in a pledge to leave with a deal, and have voted against a deal three times.
They pledged to leave with a different deal.
The question was "leave" or "remain". The rest is sophistry or excuses...
We’re not talking about the referendum. We’re talking about GE2017.
The deal could be amended to include a second EU ref . So could blow up in Bozos face.
If Leavers are so confident that they are still in the majority, why are they so frit by a second referendum?
Is it because they might lose?
Its because they believe in democracy which involves actually acting on the result of a vote rather than just ignoring it.
Nope. You guys know you have failed and you’re scared of that being found out.
I am scared of what this country will become when millions of people realise democracy is a fraud.
Why should you accept a democratic vote again? I for one would refuse to accept a Corbyn government as the legitimate Government of this country even if it won enough seats to form a government and would begin hard headed resistance the very next day as would most of the right I suspect. It would be as close to all out war as we get in peacetime
You'd do nothing of the sort.
I cant speak for HYUFD but im not sure either that you can speak for what others who voted leave might or might not do...
I'm sure I can speak for him. He'd do nothing of the sort.
Im really sure you cant!!
He's not going to begin hard headed resistance to anything any more than continuing to leaflet locally as per usual albeit perhaps for the Brexit party instead of the Conservatives.
But wait. Let him tell us what this hard headed resistance comprises.
The deal could be amended to include a second EU ref . So could blow up in Bozos face.
If Leavers are so confident that they are still in the majority, why are they so frit by a second referendum?
Is it because they might lose?
Its because they believe in democracy which involves actually acting on the result of a vote rather than just ignoring it.
Nope. You guys know you have failed and you’re scared of that being found out.
I am scared of what this country will become when millions of people realise democracy is a fraud.
Why should you accept a democratic vote again? I for one would refuse to accept a Corbyn government as the legitimate Government and would begin hard headed resistance the very next day
By asking for another election? That’s what always happens. That is normal.
No, refusing to accept the result straightaway exactly as diehard Remainers have and doing everything possible to prevent Corbyn forming a government or being able to govern
Why are you afraid of democracy?
Why are you? If the Leave vote is never implemented then it is all out war in all but name given democratic votes are not respected by the die hard Remainer side and the left why should Leavers and the Right respect it when they win?
You haven’t answered my question. Why are you afraid of a 2nd referendum? If it is the will of the people, the result will be the same. Nothing lost.
Because it is profoundly UNdemocratic to re-run elections you lose just because you lost.
Says who? You? I disagree.
Fine.
But please dont cloak it in faux outrage about "democracy". Be honest that you dont like the result and want to re-run it, with all the consequences that brings...
Maybe you should also stop cloaking your faux outrage about democracy too. Be honest that you are worried Remain would now win, and all the consequences that brings.
But im not. I cant admit something i dont believe and havent said.
There is such a thing as a point of principle you know.
It's even harder to claim there is a mandate for Remain.
Nah, intelligent and long standing Leavers like Casino Royale know what No Deal means.
What is that "damage"? Can you spell it out? With certainty?
Your posts are consistent (some might even say "relentless") on the topic. But what would be the actual effects of such a no deal scenario?
No Deal means UK citizens and businesses being less free than they are now - and the UK government having less control. Those are facts. The rest is unknowable.
How?
UK citizens will lose freedom of movement. UK-based business will no longer be inside the Single Market and Customs Union, and the UK government will dependent on the goodwill of others - with no recourse to law - to maintain international trade, full transport links, energy supplies, etc.
The Leave vote has splintered. That is what we are seeing! I suspect many who voted Leave are having second thoughts. Simply no longer worth the hassle. Chasing after the Leave vote for the next GE is like trying to find the end of a rainbow or mirage. The tide has turned and the Tories for instance are likley to be left on the shooreline. An interesting parellel to Brexit is when the miners strike came to a halt. I remember the way the miners marched claiming a moral victory when it was abundantly clear they had failed, if Brexit is cancelled the Brexiteers should honour the defeat but remember the cost of no deal would have been something totally unacceptable to UK society. A deal to Leave would have been acceptable, No Deal a catastrophy...
If you think we will honour having democracy wrecked then you are utterly mad. You and your kind have done your best to overturn a democratic vote and you will reap what you sowed. There will be no peace and no reconciliation.
Yawn. It is deathcult leavers who are doing this. Feel the guilt.
Why should I feel the guilt? I have always argued for a soft Brexit. It is all those scum in Parliament on all sides who voted against a deal who are responsible for the chaos. Along with the scum outside who refused to accept the result.
Who are you calling scum? Wanting another democratic vote does not make one scum. You’re just afraid of the result. Why are you afraid of democracy?
"Democracy". A word forever on your lips until you dont like the result....
It's not a foregone conclusion, we you could still win again. But why are we you so afraid of losing?
Ha ha ha...
I dont have to prove i voted remain and i dont much care what you think in that regard anyway.
As i have written above, it is profoundly undemocratic to re-run elections you lose just because you lost.
I voted Leave - you know, Sunil "Be Leave" Prasannan
The deal could be amended to include a second EU ref . So could blow up in Bozos face.
If Leavers are so confident that they are still in the majority, why are they so frit by a second referendum?
Is it because they might lose?
They are the biggest chickens around. Growth hormones and all.
It is because you dont just re-run polls you lose.
🐔
Not really. Im not afraid of a second poll. I voted remain the first time but would certainly vote leave now.
But i recognise the immense damage such a vote would do.
Leavers would of course not accept defeat but on the very next day just step up the aggression exactly as diehard Remainers refused to accept the result of the first vote
Leavers don't seem to have done a very competent job of accepting victory, so yes, you're probably right they wouldn't accept defeat either.
The deal could be amended to include a second EU ref . So could blow up in Bozos face.
If Leavers are so confident that they are still in the majority, why are they so frit by a second referendum?
Is it because they might lose?
Its because they believe in democracy which involves actually acting on the result of a vote rather than just ignoring it.
Nope. You guys know you have failed and you’re scared of that being found out.
I am scared of what this country will become when millions of people realise democracy is a fraud.
Why should you accept a democratic vote again? I for one would refuse to accept a Corbyn government as the legitimate Government of this country even if it won enough seats to form a government and would begin hard headed resistance the very next day as would most of the right I suspect. It would be as close to all out war as we get in peacetime
You'd do nothing of the sort.
I cant speak for HYUFD but im not sure either that you can speak for what others who voted leave might or might not do...
I'm sure I can speak for him. He'd do nothing of the sort.
Im really sure you cant!!
He's not going to begin hard headed resistance to anything any more than continuing to leaflet locally as per usual albeit perhaps for the Brexit party instead of the Conservatives.
But wait. Let him tell us what this hard headed resistance comprises.
Taking to the streets en masse for starters, refusing to comply with any laws passed by a Corbyn government etc
The deal could be amended to include a second EU ref . So could blow up in Bozos face.
If Leavers are so confident that they are still in the majority, why are they so frit by a second referendum?
Is it because they might lose?
Its because they believe in democracy which involves actually acting on the result of a vote rather than just ignoring it.
Nope. You guys know you have failed and you’re scared of that being found out.
I am scared of what this country will become when millions of people realise democracy is a fraud.
Why should you accept a democratic vote again? I for one would refuse to accept a Corbyn government as the legitimate Government of this country even if it won enough seats to form a government and would begin hard headed resistance the very next day as would most of the right I suspect. It would be as close to all out war as we get in peacetime
You'd do nothing of the sort.
I cant speak for HYUFD but im not sure either that you can speak for what others who voted leave might or might not do...
I'm sure I can speak for him. He'd do nothing of the sort.
Im really sure you cant!!
He's not going to begin hard headed resistance to anything any more than continuing to leaflet locally as per usual albeit perhaps for the Brexit party instead of the Conservatives.
But wait. Let him tell us what this hard headed resistance comprises.
Taking to the streets en masse for starters, refusing to comply with any laws passed by a Corbyn government etc
What none of the polls since MPs hatched and then passed the anti-No Deal legislation seem to have shown is a Tory surge. Even the two big leads from YouGov and Opinium were more about a divided opposition than growing support for Johnson.
The Tories were on 35% each with Yougov and Opinium, about 5% higher than Comres had them even at the weekend
Goodness gracious...Lib Dems Down, Labour 1 point behind...
As ever, best to look at the No Deal/anti-No Deal party split, rather than the individual party scores IMO. This poll is at the top end for the anti-No Dealers, but within the regular range.
The Tory+Brexit and Lab+LD+Green totals are virtually unchanged since the last poll, but there has been a movement to Labour.
Leave-supporting MPs should have indeed voted for it. Yes, I agree with you there.
All MPs should have as a matter of course, if they meant what they said about honouring the result of the referendum. Unfortunately they are too full of their own self importance to do the right thing.
If you wanted to leave, your fellow travellers in parliament had their chance to do it.
They chose not to.
No you’re wrong. Many Remain MPs were elected in a pledge to leave with a deal, and have voted against a deal three times.
They pledged to leave with a different deal.
The question was "leave" or "remain". The rest is sophistry or excuses...
We’re not talking about the referendum. We’re talking about GE2017.
Several posters (including Smithson) labour the point about 'no deal' not being on the ballot.
Leave-supporting MPs should have indeed voted for it. Yes, I agree with you there.
All MPs should have as a matter of course, if they meant what they said about honouring the result of the referendum. Unfortunately they are too full of their own self importance to do the right thing.
If you wanted to leave, your fellow travellers in parliament had their chance to do it.
They chose not to.
No you’re wrong. Many Remain MPs were elected in a pledge to leave with a deal, and have voted against a deal three times.
They pledged to leave with a different deal.
The question was "leave" or "remain". The rest is sophistry or excuses...
We’re not talking about the referendum. We’re talking about GE2017.
Several posters (including Smithson) labour the point about 'no deal' not being on the ballot.
Goodness gracious...Lib Dems Down, Labour 1 point behind...
As ever, best to look at the No Deal/anti-No Deal party split, rather than the individual party scores IMO. This poll is at the top end for the anti-No Dealers, but within the regular range.
The Tory+Brexit and Lab+LD+Green totals are virtually unchanged since the last poll, but there has been a movement to Labour.
What happens if Remain wins a second referendum by 15m votes to 10m?
That's not a million miles away from what I think will happen. But if that's the result, it's decisive. Nobody has the right to claim non-voters as their own.
The deal could be amended to include a second EU ref . So could blow up in Bozos face.
If Leavers are so confident that they are still in the majority, why are they so frit by a second referendum?
Is it because they might lose?
Its because they believe in democracy which involves actually acting on the result of a vote rather than just ignoring it.
Nope. You guys know you have failed and you’re scared of that being found out.
I am scared of what this country will become when millions of people realise democracy is a fraud.
Why should you accept a democratic vote again? I for one would refuse to accept a Corbyn government as the legitimate Government of this country even if it won enough seats to form a government and would begin hard headed resistance the very next day as would most of the right I suspect. It would be as close to all out war as we get in peacetime
You'd do nothing of the sort.
I cant speak for HYUFD but im not sure either that you can speak for what others who voted leave might or might not do...
I'm sure I can speak for him. He'd do nothing of the sort.
Im really sure you cant!!
He's not going to begin hard headed resistance to anything any more than continuing to leaflet locally as per usual albeit perhaps for the Brexit party instead of the Conservatives.
But wait. Let him tell us what this hard headed resistance comprises.
Taking to the streets en masse for starters, refusing to comply with any laws passed by a Corbyn government etc
Refusing to comply with any law Corbyn passed? LOL. You would comply with every law passed.
Knock yourself out and march to Trafalgar Square though if you want.
Comments
This week was our last chance to restore something resembling a rational government/parliament through a general election.
Now complete chaos and disaster awaits. I have no idea where this ends but all outcomes are terrible from here.
That doesnt look to me a recipe for national success or a resolution of the problem.
Maybe Boris was right - no one wants an election?
Wanting another democratic vote does not make one scum.
You’re just afraid of the result. Why are you afraid of democracy?
Dull, And pointless.
http://www2.politicalbetting.com/index.php/archives/2019/05/20/putting-thursday-into-context-a-look-back-at-previous-uk-euro-elections/
Recent EU elections have actually been a poor guide to the winning party’s fortunes at the subsequent general election. In their regally purple heyday, UKIP under their ex-leader Nigel Farage won the largest share of the vote and the most seats at the most recent EU election in 2014, but their vote halved at the GE the following year, winning only one MP. By contrast, the Tories under David Cameron won the previous 2009 EU election, whilst they were in opposition, and then went on to become largest party at the 2010 GE, and the larger party in the ensuing Con-LibDem coalition. And in 2014, the Tories came a poor third, behind UKIP and Labour, but then went on to win an outright majority at GE 2015. However, Labour were the first governing party to come third in a EU election, in 2009, trailing the Tories and UKIP on vote-share, but equalling UKIP on seats.
I choose terrible without a profound economic shock over terrible with one. You make your own choice.
https://www.comresglobal.com/polls/sunday-express-voting-poll-july-2019/
Then, since we've established the principle of ignoring referendum results we don't like, we should just leave anyway. See how Grieve and co like it.
Certainly not on here, where we had to endure the same post about chickens several times from the HY-TG-GIN algorithm.
I was previously of the view that the ballot paper just said leave so it was legitimate to leave deal or no deal. Madness but legitimate.
Having seen now the two pledges in the manifestos I think it is legitimate for MPs to frustrate a no deal brexit. Both parties clearly campaigned either for a deal or an orderly exit.
No deal is neither.
I dont have to prove i voted remain and i dont much care what you think in that regard anyway.
As i have written above, it is profoundly undemocratic to re-run elections you lose just because you lost.
It's entirely possible that Leave could win a second referendum. Depending on the question on the ballot paper - eg if the Leave option is a deal with a backstop - then it is also possible that a successful boycott campaign would delegitimise the whole thing. What happens if Remain wins a second referendum by 15m votes to 10m? Sure the headline figure is a 60:40 emphatic victory (as Johnson might say), but it isn't really, is it?
I also don't think that we should exit without a deal, and I don't think it would be a good idea for MPs who oppose Leave to impose a deal on MPs who campaigned for Leave. Somehow we have to reach a compromise.
The only way I can think of is to go for a long extension and then involve ordinary voters - through a citizen's assembly - to convince MPs on both sides that they should support a compromise.
But please dont cloak it in faux outrage about "democracy". Be honest that you dont like the result and want to re-run it, with all the consequences that brings...
I can’t see that happening though so...
The fact that so many, previously fair minded, people are happy to contort themselves into thinking that overturning the referendum result is a reasonable decision is probably the saddest thing to come out of the whole shebang.
“Father, forgive them; for they know not what they do.”
But wait. Let him tell us what this hard headed resistance comprises.
There is such a thing as a point of principle you know.
And Corbyn has always said he wanted a GE (oh, hang on..)
That is sophistry.
Otherwise only if they implemented the result of the first referendum first
Statistically irrelevant.
Knock yourself out and march to Trafalgar Square though if you want.
What i do know is that Labour in its manifesto undertook to respect the vote to leave.