Boris has said he would rather die in a ditch than extend A50. If he would just like to quietly go off and do that we can then ask someone else to sign the (already drafted) letter to the EU.
Ben - you are better than suggesting someone , anyone , goes and dies in a ditch.
We all need to respect life no matter how much we disagree with them, and don't forget I asked for his resignation today
Boris has said he would rather die in a ditch than extend A50. If he would just like to quietly go off and do that we can then ask someone else to sign the (already drafted) letter to the EU.
Ben - you are better than suggesting someone , anyone , goes and dies in a ditch.
We all need to respect life no matter how much we disagree with them, and don't forget I asked for his resignation today
Do stop this constant thought policing.
Not on the subject of anyone' s death. If you do not like it skim over my post
Jo Cox comes to mind
Big_G, with respect: "die in a ditch" means "to make extreme sacrifices for a cause".
It has no more to do with physical death than "dead heat", "die laughing" or "deathly silence" do.
Ben - you are better than suggesting someone , anyone , goes and dies in a ditch.
It appears not.
It was Johnson himself who introduced the idea of him dying in a ditch. Death may be a taboo subject in pre-school clubs for 4 year olds, but the vast majority of the readership here is probably old enough to confront the subject.
My view is that we revoke parts of the Crime and Disorder Act 1998 and string him up for treason. Cue cries of "He said Jehovah! He said Jehovah!"
I think this situation is uniquely dangerous for Labour. A failure by Mr. Corbyn to be elected by the HoC after Mr. Johnson’s (seemingly inevitable) removal or resignation from the premiership would leave him looking weak and would offer the LDs a boost. Given they are the party of revoke and the increasing polarisation of the electorate it offers a massive opportunity for them. I believe Ms. Swinson would not be so foolish as to allow him a “free trial” at being PM as this gives him a psychological lift at being viewed as a potential PM.
Similarly Mr. Corbyn can not afford the loss of face of allowing anybody else to be temporary PM. Therefore the best chance for him would be to agree a swift election before his weak position in Parliament is exposed. Oddly enough this means the Leader of the Opposition should “cut and run”.
Why is everyone assuming Boris can refuse to " sign " the letter ? The text of the letter is in the Bill. The Bill creates a legal duty on the office of PM to send it. Why won't the Civil Service just send the letter on autopilot as part of compliance ? What do you think would happen if a Council Leader instructed a Council Chief Exec not to fulfill a statutory duty ?
What happens if the Head of the Civil Service sends the letter and Boris sends a simultaneous one saying he opposes it entirely and will do what he can to be a wrecker in the EU?
Would genuinely like to hear the lawyers of PB tell us.
Ben - you are better than suggesting someone , anyone , goes and dies in a ditch.
It appears not.
It was Johnson himself who introduced the idea of him dying in a ditch. Death may be a taboo subject in pre-school clubs for 4 year olds, but the vast majority of the readership here is probably old enough to confront the subject.
My view is that we revoke parts of the Crime and Disorder Act 1998 and string him up for treason. Cue cries of "He said Jehovah! He said Jehovah!"
Regrettably whilst we are in the EU and signatories to the EHRC that wont be possible. The death penalty cannot be restored even in wartime without exiting those esteemed organizations
I think this situation is uniquely dangerous for Labour. A failure by Mr. Corbyn to be elected by the HoC after Mr. Johnson’s (seemingly inevitable) removal or resignation from the premiership would leave him looking weak and would offer the LDs a boost. Given they are the party of revoke and the increasing polarisation of the electorate it offers a massive opportunity for them. I believe Ms. Swinson would not be so foolish as to allow him a “free trial” at being PM as this gives him a psychological lift at being viewed as a potential PM.
Similarly Mr. Corbyn can not afford the loss of face of allowing anybody else to be temporary PM. Therefore the best chance for him would be to agree a swift election before his weak position in Parliament is exposed. Oddly enough this means the Leader of the Opposition should “cut and run”.
I'm trying to work out how people think Boris can extract himself from this mess.
He is PM until he recommends to the Queen someone else who has the confidence of the HoC to be PM and the only people able to fulfil that role are probably Teresa May or Kenneth Clarke and even those options might lose a VoNC and cause the Queen embarrassment.
Boris has said he would rather die in a ditch than extend A50. If he would just like to quietly go off and do that we can then ask someone else to sign the (already drafted) letter to the EU.
Ben - you are better than suggesting someone , anyone , goes and dies in a ditch.
We all need to respect life no matter how much we disagree with them, and don't forget I asked for his resignation today
Do stop this constant thought policing.
Not on the subject of anyone' s death. If you do not like it skim over my post
Jo Cox comes to mind
Big_G, with respect: "die in a ditch" means "to make extreme sacrifices for a cause".
It has no more to do with physical death than "dead heat", "die laughing" or "deathly silence" do.
I think you suggesting he goes and does it is unnecessary.
But I know you would not mean it but at present we are struggling with serious family health issues and maybe I am a bit touchy !!!!
I think this situation is uniquely dangerous for Labour. A failure by Mr. Corbyn to be elected by the HoC after Mr. Johnson’s (seemingly inevitable) removal or resignation from the premiership would leave him looking weak and would offer the LDs a boost. Given they are the party of revoke and the increasing polarisation of the electorate it offers a massive opportunity for them. I believe Ms. Swinson would not be so foolish as to allow him a “free trial” at being PM as this gives him a psychological lift at being viewed as a potential PM.
Similarly Mr. Corbyn can not afford the loss of face of allowing anybody else to be temporary PM. Therefore the best chance for him would be to agree a swift election before his weak position in Parliament is exposed. Oddly enough this means the Leader of the Opposition should “cut and run”.
Yes, I'm wondering whether Johnson's master strategy is to force Corbyn into Downing Street for a few days before he's inevitably defeated in a vote of confidence. That may make him look ridiculous just before an election.
I think this situation is uniquely dangerous for Labour. A failure by Mr. Corbyn to be elected by the HoC after Mr. Johnson’s (seemingly inevitable) removal or resignation from the premiership would leave him looking weak and would offer the LDs a boost. Given they are the party of revoke and the increasing polarisation of the electorate it offers a massive opportunity for them. I believe Ms. Swinson would not be so foolish as to allow him a “free trial” at being PM as this gives him a psychological lift at being viewed as a potential PM.
Similarly Mr. Corbyn can not afford the loss of face of allowing anybody else to be temporary PM. Therefore the best chance for him would be to agree a swift election before his weak position in Parliament is exposed. Oddly enough this means the Leader of the Opposition should “cut and run”.
I'm trying to work out how people think Boris can extract himself from this mess.
He is PM until he recommends to the Queen someone else who has the confidence of the HoC to be PM and the only people able to fulfil that role is probably Teresa May or Kenneth Clarke and if those options might lose a VoNC and cause the Queen embarrassment.
Vonc in own government, followed by prorogation. Guarantees the election. But not till Oct 29
Boris has said he would rather die in a ditch than extend A50. If he would just like to quietly go off and do that we can then ask someone else to sign the (already drafted) letter to the EU.
Ben - you are better than suggesting someone , anyone , goes and dies in a ditch.
We all need to respect life no matter how much we disagree with them, and don't forget I asked for his resignation today
Boris has said he would rather die in a ditch than extend A50. If he would just like to quietly go off and do that we can then ask someone else to sign the (already drafted) letter to the EU.
Ben - you are better than suggesting someone , anyone , goes and dies in a ditch.
We all need to respect life no matter how much we disagree with them, and don't forget I asked for his resignation today
Do stop this constant thought policing.
Not on the subject of anyone' s death. If you do not like it skim over my post
Jo Cox comes to mind
Big_G, with respect: "die in a ditch" means "to make extreme sacrifices for a cause".
It has no more to do with physical death than "dead heat", "die laughing" or "deathly silence" do.
I think you suggesting he goes and does it is unnecessary.
But I know you would not mean it but at present we are struhgling with serious family health ssues and maybe I am a bit touchy !!!!
Sorry to hear that Big_G - hope things improve for your family soon.
I think this situation is uniquely dangerous for Labour. A failure by Mr. Corbyn to be elected by the HoC after Mr. Johnson’s (seemingly inevitable) removal or resignation from the premiership would leave him looking weak and would offer the LDs a boost. Given they are the party of revoke and the increasing polarisation of the electorate it offers a massive opportunity for them. I believe Ms. Swinson would not be so foolish as to allow him a “free trial” at being PM as this gives him a psychological lift at being viewed as a potential PM.
Similarly Mr. Corbyn can not afford the loss of face of allowing anybody else to be temporary PM. Therefore the best chance for him would be to agree a swift election before his weak position in Parliament is exposed. Oddly enough this means the Leader of the Opposition should “cut and run”.
I'm trying to work out how people think Boris can extract himself from this mess.
He is PM until he recommends to the Queen someone else who has the confidence of the HoC to be PM and the only people able to fulfil that role is probably Teresa May or Kenneth Clarke and if those options might lose a VoNC and cause the Queen embarrassment.
Vonc in own government, followed by prorogation. Guarantees the election.
I think this situation is uniquely dangerous for Labour. A failure by Mr. Corbyn to be elected by the HoC after Mr. Johnson’s (seemingly inevitable) removal or resignation from the premiership would leave him looking weak and would offer the LDs a boost. Given they are the party of revoke and the increasing polarisation of the electorate it offers a massive opportunity for them. I believe Ms. Swinson would not be so foolish as to allow him a “free trial” at being PM as this gives him a psychological lift at being viewed as a potential PM.
Similarly Mr. Corbyn can not afford the loss of face of allowing anybody else to be temporary PM. Therefore the best chance for him would be to agree a swift election before his weak position in Parliament is exposed. Oddly enough this means the Leader of the Opposition should “cut and run”.
I'm trying to work out how people think Boris can extract himself from this mess.
He is PM until he recommends to the Queen someone else who has the confidence of the HoC to be PM and the only people able to fulfil that role is probably Teresa May or Kenneth Clarke and if those options might lose a VoNC and cause the Queen embarrassment.
Corbyn gets called. That he can't pass anything is neither here nor there. He can sign the letter which is ostensibly what much of the "remain alliance" wants him to do.
Thornberry says she will campaign for Remain against Labour's own Brexit Deal on a personal basis, Dale and Tice then take her apart to cheers from the QT audience
I think this situation is uniquely dangerous for Labour. A failure by Mr. Corbyn to be elected by the HoC after Mr. Johnson’s (seemingly inevitable) removal or resignation from the premiership would leave him looking weak and would offer the LDs a boost. Given they are the party of revoke and the increasing polarisation of the electorate it offers a massive opportunity for them. I believe Ms. Swinson would not be so foolish as to allow him a “free trial” at being PM as this gives him a psychological lift at being viewed as a potential PM.
Similarly Mr. Corbyn can not afford the loss of face of allowing anybody else to be temporary PM. Therefore the best chance for him would be to agree a swift election before his weak position in Parliament is exposed. Oddly enough this means the Leader of the Opposition should “cut and run”.
I'm trying to work out how people think Boris can extract himself from this mess.
He is PM until he recommends to the Queen someone else who has the confidence of the HoC to be PM and the only people able to fulfil that role is probably Teresa May or Kenneth Clarke and if those options might lose a VoNC and cause the Queen embarrassment.
Vonc in own government, followed by prorogation. Guarantees the election. But not till Oct 29
Can't be done - the only person who can ask for a VONC is the LOTO and he is not stupid enough to do that.
Peston on ITV news says senior Tories have said Boris will refuse to agree to extend Article 50 under any circumstances whatsoever even if the extension bill passes and will challenge the Commons to impeach him first
That would be excellent. The ONLY reason Labour are refusing a pre-Oct 31 election is to make Boris break his word and dent his popularity with BXP supporters.
But two can play at that game. He should expose the opposition strategy for the craven gimmick it is, and tell them to go **** themselves if they think he's going to request an extension. And then let the chips fall where they may.
I suspect Boris would have difficulty running an electoral campaign from a prison cell.
Not necessarily, Boris would become a martyr to the Leave cause, a symbolic resistance fighter, a Nelson Mandela for Brexit
Boris could be the first UK party leader to lead his party to general election victory from prison (even if he cannot return to Parliament himself)
On early signs huge pro Tory swings in the council by elections tonight, early signs of a Boris bounce at the weekend perhaps despite his supposed 'disaster' this week?
I think this situation is uniquely dangerous for Labour. A failure by Mr. Corbyn to be elected by the HoC after Mr. Johnson’s (seemingly inevitable) removal or resignation from the premiership would leave him looking weak and would offer the LDs a boost. Given they are the party of revoke and the increasing polarisation of the electorate it offers a massive opportunity for them. I believe Ms. Swinson would not be so foolish as to allow him a “free trial” at being PM as this gives him a psychological lift at being viewed as a potential PM.
Similarly Mr. Corbyn can not afford the loss of face of allowing anybody else to be temporary PM. Therefore the best chance for him would be to agree a swift election before his weak position in Parliament is exposed. Oddly enough this means the Leader of the Opposition should “cut and run”.
I'm trying to work out how people think Boris can extract himself from this mess.
He is PM until he recommends to the Queen someone else who has the confidence of the HoC to be PM and the only people able to fulfil that role is probably Teresa May or Kenneth Clarke and if those options might lose a VoNC and cause the Queen embarrassment.
Vonc in own government, followed by prorogation. Guarantees the election. But not till Oct 29
Can't be done - the only person who can ask for a VONC is the LOTO and he is not stupid enough to do that.
That isn’t true I don’t think. We discussed this earlier and it was established that although the LOTO moving the VONC motion is the only one that takes precedence over other business, the government can still table one themselves.
I think this situation is uniquely dangerous for Labour. A failure by Mr. Corbyn to be elected by the HoC after Mr. Johnson’s (seemingly inevitable) removal or resignation from the premiership would leave him looking weak and would offer the LDs a boost. Given they are the party of revoke and the increasing polarisation of the electorate it offers a massive opportunity for them. I believe Ms. Swinson would not be so foolish as to allow him a “free trial” at being PM as this gives him a psychological lift at being viewed as a potential PM.
Similarly Mr. Corbyn can not afford the loss of face of allowing anybody else to be temporary PM. Therefore the best chance for him would be to agree a swift election before his weak position in Parliament is exposed. Oddly enough this means the Leader of the Opposition should “cut and run”.
I'm trying to work out how people think Boris can extract himself from this mess.
He is PM until he recommends to the Queen someone else who has the confidence of the HoC to be PM and the only people able to fulfil that role is probably Teresa May or Kenneth Clarke and if those options might lose a VoNC and cause the Queen embarrassment.
Vonc in own government, followed by prorogation. Guarantees the election.
Only if the VONC is successful
Tories plus DUP vote for it, he needs another 22. In the debate he could make it clear a vote of confidence by the opposition would be taken as approval of his plan to ignore the Benn act. Something weird like that
I think this situation is uniquely dangerous for Labour. A failure by Mr. Corbyn to be elected by the HoC after Mr. Johnson’s (seemingly inevitable) removal or resignation from the premiership would leave him looking weak and would offer the LDs a boost. Given they are the party of revoke and the increasing polarisation of the electorate it offers a massive opportunity for them. I believe Ms. Swinson would not be so foolish as to allow him a “free trial” at being PM as this gives him a psychological lift at being viewed as a potential PM.
Similarly Mr. Corbyn can not afford the loss of face of allowing anybody else to be temporary PM. Therefore the best chance for him would be to agree a swift election before his weak position in Parliament is exposed. Oddly enough this means the Leader of the Opposition should “cut and run”.
I'm trying to work out how people think Boris can extract himself from this mess.
He is PM until he recommends to the Queen someone else who has the confidence of the HoC to be PM and the only people able to fulfil that role is probably Teresa May or Kenneth Clarke and if those options might lose a VoNC and cause the Queen embarrassment.
Vonc in own government, followed by prorogation. Guarantees the election.
Only if the VONC is successful
Tories plus DUP vote for it, he needs another 22. In the debate he could make it clear a vote of confidence by the opposition would be taken as approval of his plan to ignore the Benn act. Something weird like that
I think this situation is uniquely dangerous for Labour. A failure by Mr. Corbyn to be elected by the HoC after Mr. Johnson’s (seemingly inevitable) removal or resignation from the premiership would leave him looking weak and would offer the LDs a boost. Given they are the party of revoke and the increasing polarisation of the electorate it offers a massive opportunity for them. I believe Ms. Swinson would not be so foolish as to allow him a “free trial” at being PM as this gives him a psychological lift at being viewed as a potential PM.
Similarly Mr. Corbyn can not afford the loss of face of allowing anybody else to be temporary PM. Therefore the best chance for him would be to agree a swift election before his weak position in Parliament is exposed. Oddly enough this means the Leader of the Opposition should “cut and run”.
I'm trying to work out how people think Boris can extract himself from this mess.
He is PM until he recommends to the Queen someone else who has the confidence of the HoC to be PM and the only people able to fulfil that role is probably Teresa May or Kenneth Clarke and if those options might lose a VoNC and cause the Queen embarrassment.
Vonc in own government, followed by prorogation. Guarantees the election.
Only if the VONC is successful
Tories plus DUP vote for it, he needs another 22. In the debate he could make it clear a vote of confidence by the opposition would be taken as approval of his plan to ignore the Benn act. Something weird like that
I think this situation is uniquely dangerous for Labour. A failure by Mr. Corbyn to be elected by the HoC after Mr. Johnson’s (seemingly inevitable) removal or resignation from the premiership would leave him looking weak and would offer the LDs a boost. Given they are the party of revoke and the increasing polarisation of the electorate it offers a massive opportunity for them. I believe Ms. Swinson would not be so foolish as to allow him a “free trial” at being PM as this gives him a psychological lift at being viewed as a potential PM.
Similarly Mr. Corbyn can not afford the loss of face of allowing anybody else to be temporary PM. Therefore the best chance for him would be to agree a swift election before his weak position in Parliament is exposed. Oddly enough this means the Leader of the Opposition should “cut and run”.
I'm trying to work out how people think Boris can extract himself from this mess.
He is PM until he recommends to the Queen someone else who has the confidence of the HoC to be PM and the only people able to fulfil that role is probably Teresa May or Kenneth Clarke and if those options might lose a VoNC and cause the Queen embarrassment.
Vonc in own government, followed by prorogation. Guarantees the election. But not till Oct 29
Can't be done - the only person who can ask for a VONC is the LOTO and he is not stupid enough to do that.
That isn’t true I don’t think. We discussed this earlier and it was established that although the LOTO moving the VONC motion is the only one that takes precedence over other business, the government can still table one themselves.
But it doesn't get priority over other business and the business for next week has already been set..
Now were Parliament not being prorogued they could add it to the business for week beginning September 16th..
It's amazing how many people will switch back to BXP and likely scupper the whole thing. Although Lab still not leading, which must be frustrating for them.
Corbyn is so useless he cannot even lead the Tories even if Boris extends
I'm surprised by this as am inclined to lend the tories my vote as they are most likely of brexit(ish) parties to get in plus at least they seem to be genuinely trying to leave now.
I think this situation is uniquely dangerous for Labour. A failure by Mr. Corbyn to be elected by the HoC after Mr. Johnson’s (seemingly inevitable) removal or resignation from the premiership would leave him looking weak and would offer the LDs a boost. Given they are the party of revoke and the increasing polarisation of the electorate it offers a massive opportunity for them. I believe Ms. Swinson would not be so foolish as to allow him a “free trial” at being PM as this gives him a psychological lift at being viewed as a potential PM.
Similarly Mr. Corbyn can not afford the loss of face of allowing anybody else to be temporary PM. Therefore the best chance for him would be to agree a swift election before his weak position in Parliament is exposed. Oddly enough this means the Leader of the Opposition should “cut and run”.
I'm trying to work out how people think Boris can extract himself from this mess.
He is PM until he recommends to the Queen someone else who has the confidence of the HoC to be PM and the only people able to fulfil that role are probably Teresa May or Kenneth Clarke and even those options might lose a VoNC and cause the Queen embarrassment.
The only possible way out for him that I can see is to try and embarrass Mr. Corbyn by refusing to enact the bills purpose and challenging him to form an alternative government. This would significantly lower his prestige if he failed to do so. Given there is unlikely to be any real LD-CON voter shift under any circumstances the subsequent electoral weakness of Labour could only benefit him in the subsequent election.
On early signs huge pro Tory swings in the council by elections tonight, early signs of a Boris bounce at the weekend perhaps despite his supposed 'disaster' this week?
Most of the whats app messages I have had this week have been brutal for Labour and Corbyn.
It's amazing how many people will switch back to BXP and likely scupper the whole thing. Although Lab still not leading, which must be frustrating for them.
Suspect their own internal polling indicates a collapse in their support, hence running scared of a GE
Thornberry says she will campaign for Remain against Labour's own Brexit Deal on a personal basis, Dale and Tice then take her apart to cheers from the QT audience
ooh ooh - ask her about Union flags and white vans
I think this situation is uniquely dangerous for Labour. A failure by Mr. Corbyn to be elected by the HoC after Mr. Johnson’s (seemingly inevitable) removal or resignation from the premiership would leave him looking weak and would offer the LDs a boost. Given they are the party of revoke and the increasing polarisation of the electorate it offers a massive opportunity for them. I believe Ms. Swinson would not be so foolish as to allow him a “free trial” at being PM as this gives him a psychological lift at being viewed as a potential PM.
Similarly Mr. Corbyn can not afford the loss of face of allowing anybody else to be temporary PM. Therefore the best chance for him would be to agree a swift election before his weak position in Parliament is exposed. Oddly enough this means the Leader of the Opposition should “cut and run”.
Yes, I'm wondering whether Johnson's master strategy is to force Corbyn into Downing Street for a few days before he's inevitably defeated in a vote of confidence. That may make him look ridiculous just before an election.
He is the alternative PM. A weakening of Labour to the LDs would strengthen the Conservative electoral chances.
I think this situation is uniquely dangerous for Labour. A failure by Mr. Corbyn to be elected by the HoC after Mr. Johnson’s (seemingly inevitable) removal or resignation from the premiership would leave him looking weak and would offer the LDs a boost. Given they are the party of revoke and the increasing polarisation of the electorate it offers a massive opportunity for them. I believe Ms. Swinson would not be so foolish as to allow him a “free trial” at being PM as this gives him a psychological lift at being viewed as a potential PM.
Similarly Mr. Corbyn can not afford the loss of face of allowing anybody else to be temporary PM. Therefore the best chance for him would be to agree a swift election before his weak position in Parliament is exposed. Oddly enough this means the Leader of the Opposition should “cut and run”.
I don't think you've thought through one of those scenarios fully. VONC deafeats the government, Corbyn backs a time-limited* GONU under Ken Clarke with the sole mandate of saving the country from No Deal. Makes a statement along the lines of "country before me, country before party". Election follows some weeks later, Corbyn's campaign centred on that message of selfless maturity in the face of crisis (and painting the Tories in general as the opposite).
That's a plausible strategy. Not bombproof, I know, and I cynics like us will see through it. But it could land very smoothly with an electorate uneasy with Boris's ambitious shenanigans.
*by agreement, which Europhile Tories would grab with both hands
Why is everyone assuming Boris can refuse to " sign " the letter ? The text of the letter is in the Bill. The Bill creates a legal duty on the office of PM to send it. Why won't the Civil Service just send the letter on autopilot as part of compliance ? What do you think would happen if a Council Leader instructed a Council Chief Exec not to fulfill a statutory duty ?
What happens if the Head of the Civil Service sends the letter and Boris sends a simultaneous one saying he opposes it entirely and will do what he can to be a wrecker in the EU?
Would genuinely like to hear the lawyers of PB tell us.
And what are a citizen's treaty rights worth ? If we leave the EU on 31/10 on a No Deal basis because a the PM refused to fulfill a statutory duty what will the courts award me in compensation ? Multiplied by 10s of Millions of PPI style claims. What about those who experience No Deal costs and injury ? What about non UK citizens ?
Thornberry says she will campaign for Remain against Labour's own Brexit Deal on a personal basis, Dale and Tice then take her apart to cheers from the QT audience
ooh ooh - ask her about Union flags and white vans
Easily my least favourite politician. She is everything a Labour MP should not be.
As i said yesterday, this screws the Tories as you cannot spend money twice or have people in two places at once. If the Tories can only target say 70 seats with cchq resources and some of these might be defence, the impact of independent MP candidates limits the possibility of net gains further! A GE looks even more pointless....
Richard Tice on QT seemed to be clear that if we don't leave on 31st October they ( Brexit Party) will be blaming Parliament not Boris?
It seems a bizarre argument by Remainers. Why should it matter whether ti is last week in October or first week in November?
OK, Boris said "Do or Die" & so looks untrustworthy. But, Corby has been calling for an election for just about forever, so it makes him look just as untrustworthy to decline one.
It seems more likely to damage all the politicians.
I think this situation is uniquely dangerous for Labour. A failure by Mr. Corbyn to be elected by the HoC after Mr. Johnson’s (seemingly inevitable) removal or resignation from the premiership would leave him looking weak and would offer the LDs a boost. Given they are the party of revoke and the increasing polarisation of the electorate it offers a massive opportunity for them. I believe Ms. Swinson would not be so foolish as to allow him a “free trial” at being PM as this gives him a psychological lift at being viewed as a potential PM.
Similarly Mr. Corbyn can not afford the loss of face of allowing anybody else to be temporary PM. Therefore the best chance for him would be to agree a swift election before his weak position in Parliament is exposed. Oddly enough this means the Leader of the Opposition should “cut and run”.
I don't think you've thought through one of those scenarios fully. VONC deafeats the government, Corbyn backs a time-limited* GONU under Ken Clarke with the sole mandate of saving the country from No Deal. Makes a statement along the lines of "country before me, country before party". Election follows some weeks later, Corbyn's campaign centred on that message of selfless maturity in the face of crisis (and painting the Tories in general as the opposite).
That's a plausible strategy. Not bombproof, I know, and I cynics like us will see through it. But it could land very smoothly with an electorate uneasy with Boris's ambitious shenanigans.
*by agreement, which Europhile Tories would grab with both hands
Bonus move: Corbyn sends some of the shadow cabinet into the unity government and stays out of it himself. Risky, because people might get used to the idea of Labour being in government without Corbyn, but could look really "presidential" (in the European, not American sense). I.e. doing what Cameron should have done in 2016. Unlikely to happen, I know, but could be an incredible use of the soft pedal.
It's amazing how many people will switch back to BXP and likely scupper the whole thing. Although Lab still not leading, which must be frustrating for them.
False poll - doesn’t say why would we be in after 31/10 - Boris backtracking or Corbyn and the remoaners pissing £3Bn away.
I really hope labour and chums cling to the comfort of those polls. It’ll make the backlash on them more enjoyable when the votes are cast. They all seem to have missed the point that during prorogation, Boris gets the bully pulpit.
That said, ok a personal note, I’m glad I got some cash on a Corbyn majority last week, and I still think there’s some decent odds that’ll come in more over the next few weeks.
Richard Tice on QT seemed to be clear that if we don't leave on 31st October they ( Brexit Party) will be blaming Parliament not Boris?
It seems a bizarre argument by Remainers. Why should it matter whether ti is last week in October or first week in November?
OK, Boris said "Do or Die" & so looks untrustworthy. But, Corby has been calling for an election for just about forever, so it makes him look just as untrustworthy to decline one.
It seems more likely to damage all the politicians.
When an election is 5 weeks away all questions about who asked for an election when will be forgotten,
I think this situation is uniquely dangerous for Labour. A failure by Mr. Corbyn to be elected by the HoC after Mr. Johnson’s (seemingly inevitable) removal or resignation from the premiership would leave him looking weak and would offer the LDs a boost. Given they are the party of revoke and the increasing polarisation of the electorate it offers a massive opportunity for them. I believe Ms. Swinson would not be so foolish as to allow him a “free trial” at being PM as this gives him a psychological lift at being viewed as a potential PM.
Similarly Mr. Corbyn can not afford the loss of face of allowing anybody else to be temporary PM. Therefore the best chance for him would be to agree a swift election before his weak position in Parliament is exposed. Oddly enough this means the Leader of the Opposition should “cut and run”.
I don't think you've thought through one of those scenarios fully. VONC deafeats the government, Corbyn backs a time-limited* GONU under Ken Clarke with the sole mandate of saving the country from No Deal. Makes a statement along the lines of "country before me, country before party". Election follows some weeks later, Corbyn's campaign centred on that message of selfless maturity in the face of crisis (and painting the Tories in general as the opposite).
That's a plausible strategy. Not bombproof, I know, and I cynics like us will see through it. But it could land very smoothly with an electorate uneasy with Boris's ambitious shenanigans.
*by agreement, which Europhile Tories would grab with both hands
All things are of course possible in these days but I simply do not believe Mr. Corbyn would allow someone else other than the official leader of the opposition to become temporary PM.
I am not saying you are wrong, I just don’t think that is on the board.
Richard Tice on QT seemed to be clear that if we don't leave on 31st October they ( Brexit Party) will be blaming Parliament not Boris?
It seems a bizarre argument by Remainers. Why should it matter whether ti is last week in October or first week in November?
OK, Boris said "Do or Die" & so looks untrustworthy. But, Corby has been calling for an election for just about forever, so it makes him look just as untrustworthy to decline one.
It seems more likely to damage all the politicians.
When an election is 5 weeks away all questions about who asked for an election when will be forgotten,
On early signs huge pro Tory swings in the council by elections tonight, early signs of a Boris bounce at the weekend perhaps despite his supposed 'disaster' this week?
Most of the whats app messages I have had this week have been brutal for Labour and Corbyn.
As i said yesterday, this screws the Tories as you cannot spend money twice or have people in two places at once. If the Tories can only target say 70 seats with cchq resources and some of these might be defence, the impact of independent MP candidates limits the possibility of net gains further! A GE looks even more pointless....
My guess is that they will all lose. There is plenty of precedent of MPs standing as independents having left the Labour or Tory parties. It is not very encouraging.
Of course, there is a financial incentive to stand, and some of them may only go through the motions.
Rory the Tory is an interesting candidate, but we had a by-election from Penrith South today. It doesn't bode well for him.
As i said yesterday, this screws the Tories as you cannot spend money twice or have people in two places at once. If the Tories can only target say 70 seats with cchq resources and some of these might be defence, the impact of independent MP candidates limits the possibility of net gains further! A GE looks even more pointless....
But if they are returned they will support the conservative party in the HOC apart from no deal brexit
When Johnson says he won't go for an extension under any circumstances, that can only mean he will resign as prime minister. The question is whether he recommends Corbyn to succeed him or another Tory. He may be tempted to nominate Corbyn, knowing he can't survive for more than a few days before losing a vote of confidence.
I think this situation is uniquely dangerous for Labour. A failure by Mr. Corbyn to be elected by the HoC after Mr. Johnson’s (seemingly inevitable) removal or resignation from the premiership would leave him looking weak and would offer the LDs a boost. Given they are the party of revoke and the increasing polarisation of the electorate it offers a massive opportunity for them. I believe Ms. Swinson would not be so foolish as to allow him a “free trial” at being PM as this gives him a psychological lift at being viewed as a potential PM.
Similarly Mr. Corbyn can not afford the loss of face of allowing anybody else to be temporary PM. Therefore the best chance for him would be to agree a swift election before his weak position in Parliament is exposed. Oddly enough this means the Leader of the Opposition should “cut and run”.
I don't think you've thought through one of those scenarios fully. VONC deafeats the government, Corbyn backs a time-limited* GONU under Ken Clarke with the sole mandate of saving the country from No Deal. Makes a statement along the lines of "country before me, country before party". Election follows some weeks later, Corbyn's campaign centred on that message of selfless maturity in the face of crisis (and painting the Tories in general as the opposite).
That's a plausible strategy. Not bombproof, I know, and I cynics like us will see through it. But it could land very smoothly with an electorate uneasy with Boris's ambitious shenanigans.
*by agreement, which Europhile Tories would grab with both hands
All things are of course possible in these days but I simply do not believe Mr. Corbyn would allow someone else other than the official leader of the opposition to become temporary PM.
I am not saying you are wrong, I just don’t think that is on the board.
If I were a Corbyn loyalist (and the idea would HAVE to come from a loyalist), I'd be begging him to take this course of action. You're right about it being very unlikely to happen, though. I wouldn't waste my money right now on JC being the next PM. Labour wins elections on quick footwork, Tories win on punching power. The Tories are out of sorts, but they might just be able to keep the press on side enough for them to deliver the punches for them.
When Johnson says he won't go for an extension under any circumstances, that can only mean he will resign as prime minister. The question is whether he recommends Corbyn to succeed him or another Tory. He may be tempted to nominate Corbyn, knowing he can't survive for more than a few days before losing a vote of confidence.
It's a giant game of "pass the bomb". All the Brexit/Tory switchers I know are back with Boris btw.
When Johnson says he won't go for an extension under any circumstances, that can only mean he will resign as prime minister. The question is whether he recommends Corbyn to succeed him or another Tory. He may be tempted to nominate Corbyn, knowing he can't survive for more than a few days before losing a vote of confidence.
Boris loses his title as shortest serving PM to Corbyn. Lol. Sweeeeeet
Richard Tice on QT seemed to be clear that if we don't leave on 31st October they ( Brexit Party) will be blaming Parliament not Boris?
It seems a bizarre argument by Remainers. Why should it matter whether ti is last week in October or first week in November?
OK, Boris said "Do or Die" & so looks untrustworthy. But, Corby has been calling for an election for just about forever, so it makes him look just as untrustworthy to decline one.
It seems more likely to damage all the politicians.
When an election is 5 weeks away all questions about who asked for an election when will be forgotten,
But what is the point of this delay?
There is going to be an election, and if Boris wins, we will Brexit (whatever Bill is passed before the Election can't bind the successor Government).
We might as well get the election over with.
I think the vote against the election has damaged Corbyn, because his unique selling point was that he was straightforward. He was not a standard politician, not a devious twister like Boris or the LibDems.
He said what he meant. He was down the allotment digging honest earth and making honest jam.
On another note, has a major national newspaper started following Corbyn around in a chicken suit yet? It’s surely a great british tradition (which shifts no votes) that has to be preserved.
I think this situation is uniquely dangerous for Labour. A failure by Mr. Corbyn to be elected by the HoC after Mr. Johnson’s (seemingly inevitable) removal or resignation from the premiership would leave him looking weak and would offer the LDs a boost. Given they are the party of revoke and the increasing polarisation of the electorate it offers a massive opportunity for them. I believe Ms. Swinson would not be so foolish as to allow him a “free trial” at being PM as this gives him a psychological lift at being viewed as a potential PM.
Similarly Mr. Corbyn can not afford the loss of face of allowing anybody else to be temporary PM. Therefore the best chance for him would be to agree a swift election before his weak position in Parliament is exposed. Oddly enough this means the Leader of the Opposition should “cut and run”.
I don't think you've thought through one of those scenarios fully. VONC deafeats the government, Corbyn backs a time-limited* GONU under Ken Clarke with the sole mandate of saving the country from No Deal. Makes a statement along the lines of "country before me, country before party". Election follows some weeks later, Corbyn's campaign centred on that message of selfless maturity in the face of crisis (and painting the Tories in general as the opposite).
That's a plausible strategy. Not bombproof, I know, and I cynics like us will see through it. But it could land very smoothly with an electorate uneasy with Boris's ambitious shenanigans.
*by agreement, which Europhile Tories would grab with both hands
Bonus move: Corbyn sends some of the shadow cabinet into the unity government and stays out of it himself. Risky, because people might get used to the idea of Labour being in government without Corbyn, but could look really "presidential" (in the European, not American sense). I.e. doing what Cameron should have done in 2016. Unlikely to happen, I know, but could be an incredible use of the soft pedal.
Given how certain Tories moaned when May was willing to attempt to talk to Corbyn as it 'legitimised' him somehow, I am curious if those same Tories would think allowing Corbyn to be PM, however briefly, to secure an extension then election, would be a good idea, as one theory now has it as Boris's plan.
As i said yesterday, this screws the Tories as you cannot spend money twice or have people in two places at once. If the Tories can only target say 70 seats with cchq resources and some of these might be defence, the impact of independent MP candidates limits the possibility of net gains further! A GE looks even more pointless....
But if they are returned they will support the conservative party in the HOC apart from no deal brexit
I think under the current leadership trust would be shot.The point is if cchq has to target indy mp seats, they have less opportunity to target other seats elsewhere. Being elected as an indy gives an elected person a different mandate which allows a different path.
Richard Tice on QT seemed to be clear that if we don't leave on 31st October they ( Brexit Party) will be blaming Parliament not Boris?
It seems a bizarre argument by Remainers. Why should it matter whether ti is last week in October or first week in November?
OK, Boris said "Do or Die" & so looks untrustworthy. But, Corby has been calling for an election for just about forever, so it makes him look just as untrustworthy to decline one.
It seems more likely to damage all the politicians.
When an election is 5 weeks away all questions about who asked for an election when will be forgotten,
But what is the point of this delay?
There is going to be an election, and if Boris wins, we will Brexit (whatever Bill is passed before the Election can't bind the successor Government).
We might as well get the election over with.
I think the vote against the election has damaged Corbyn, because his unique selling point was that he was straightforward. He was not a standard politician, not a devious twister like Boris or the LibDems.
He said what he meant. He was down the allotment digging honest earth and making honest jam.
But it now seems he did not say what he meant.
The point of the delay is to force Boris to not exit by October 31st for political reasons.
As i said yesterday, this screws the Tories as you cannot spend money twice or have people in two places at once. If the Tories can only target say 70 seats with cchq resources and some of these might be defence, the impact of independent MP candidates limits the possibility of net gains further! A GE looks even more pointless....
But if they are returned they will support the conservative party in the HOC apart from no deal brexit
I think under the current leadership trust would be shot.The point is if cchq has to target indy mp seats, they have less opportunity to target other seats elsewhere. Being elected as an indy gives an elected person a different mandate which allows a different path.
Yes but they are, like me, one nation conservatives and will support the party but not no deal
Richard Tice on QT seemed to be clear that if we don't leave on 31st October they ( Brexit Party) will be blaming Parliament not Boris?
It seems a bizarre argument by Remainers. Why should it matter whether ti is last week in October or first week in November?
OK, Boris said "Do or Die" & so looks untrustworthy. But, Corby has been calling for an election for just about forever, so it makes him look just as untrustworthy to decline one.
It seems more likely to damage all the politicians.
When an election is 5 weeks away all questions about who asked for an election when will be forgotten,
But what is the point of this delay?
There is going to be an election, and if Boris wins, we will Brexit (whatever Bill is passed before the Election can't bind the successor Government).
We might as well get the election over with.
I think the vote against the election has damaged Corbyn, because his unique selling point was that he was straightforward. He was not a standard politician, not a devious twister like Boris or the LibDems.
He said what he meant. He was down the allotment digging honest earth and making honest jam.
But it now seems he did not say what he meant.
Corbyn is not the man he was 4 years ago, for better and for worse. Even if we think he is still terrible, he is definitely wilier, more flexible, more cynical.
As i said yesterday, this screws the Tories as you cannot spend money twice or have people in two places at once. If the Tories can only target say 70 seats with cchq resources and some of these might be defence, the impact of independent MP candidates limits the possibility of net gains further! A GE looks even more pointless....
My guess is that they will all lose. There is plenty of precedent of MPs standing as independents having left the Labour or Tory parties. It is not very encouraging.
Of course, there is a financial incentive to stand, and some of them may only go through the motions.
Rory the Tory is an interesting candidate, but we had a by-election from Penrith South today. It doesn't bode well for him.
Rory was not the candidate. It is a different election with a set of alternative issues.
Richard Tice on QT seemed to be clear that if we don't leave on 31st October they ( Brexit Party) will be blaming Parliament not Boris?
It seems a bizarre argument by Remainers. Why should it matter whether ti is last week in October or first week in November?
OK, Boris said "Do or Die" & so looks untrustworthy. But, Corby has been calling for an election for just about forever, so it makes him look just as untrustworthy to decline one.
It seems more likely to damage all the politicians.
When an election is 5 weeks away all questions about who asked for an election when will be forgotten,
But what is the point of this delay?
There is going to be an election, and if Boris wins, we will Brexit (whatever Bill is passed before the Election can't bind the successor Government).
We might as well get the election over with.
I think the vote against the election has damaged Corbyn, because his unique selling point was that he was straightforward. He was not a standard politician, not a devious twister like Boris or the LibDems.
He said what he meant. He was down the allotment digging honest earth and making honest jam.
But it now seems he did not say what he meant.
The point of the delay is to force Boris to not exit by October 31st for political reasons.
I understand, but I honestly can't see it damaging him.
As i said yesterday, this screws the Tories as you cannot spend money twice or have people in two places at once. If the Tories can only target say 70 seats with cchq resources and some of these might be defence, the impact of independent MP candidates limits the possibility of net gains further! A GE looks even more pointless....
But if they are returned they will support the conservative party in the HOC apart from no deal brexit
I think under the current leadership trust would be shot.The point is if cchq has to target indy mp seats, they have less opportunity to target other seats elsewhere. Being elected as an indy gives an elected person a different mandate which allows a different path.
Yes but they are, like me, one nation conservatives and will support the party but not no deal
Hypothetically if we leave no deal - and it proves more to be like my hopes than your worries and isn't a problem - and the country looks to move on then could you look to rejoin the Conservatives?
On another note, has a major national newspaper started following Corbyn around in a chicken suit yet? It’s surely a great british tradition (which shifts no votes) that has to be preserved.
I hope not. The whole thing is degrading and really rather mean-spirited. It's time we stopped being so flippant about them and started to try to treat our livestock with a little more dignity instead of comparing them to politicians.
As i said yesterday, this screws the Tories as you cannot spend money twice or have people in two places at once. If the Tories can only target say 70 seats with cchq resources and some of these might be defence, the impact of independent MP candidates limits the possibility of net gains further! A GE looks even more pointless....
But if they are returned they will support the conservative party in the HOC apart from no deal brexit
Doesn't that somewhat depend on what those policies might be? I am resigned to Boris winning a 5 year term. The only comfort I take is that the breakdown of the coalition of low tax, Atlanticist, Singapore on Thames bunch, and the high spend, nativist, anti-foreigner nationalist bunch will be brutal. Moreover, it will take place in government, probably with less than 40% support to begin with.
As i said yesterday, this screws the Tories as you cannot spend money twice or have people in two places at once. If the Tories can only target say 70 seats with cchq resources and some of these might be defence, the impact of independent MP candidates limits the possibility of net gains further! A GE looks even more pointless....
My guess is that they will all lose. There is plenty of precedent of MPs standing as independents having left the Labour or Tory parties. It is not very encouraging.
Of course, there is a financial incentive to stand, and some of them may only go through the motions.
Rory the Tory is an interesting candidate, but we had a by-election from Penrith South today. It doesn't bode well for him.
Rory was not the candidate. It is a different election with a set of alternative issues.
I wish it were otherwise, but the candidate really matters that much in a General Election.
A by-election is different. That is why the Tiggers would have been well advised to resign & fight by-elections.
Richard Tice on QT seemed to be clear that if we don't leave on 31st October they ( Brexit Party) will be blaming Parliament not Boris?
It seems a bizarre argument by Remainers. Why should it matter whether ti is last week in October or first week in November? OK, Boris said "Do or Die" & so looks untrustworthy. But, Corby has been calling for an election for just about forever, so it makes him look just as untrustworthy to decline one. It seems more likely to damage all the politicians.
Just the Tory and Labour ones, I think. But they are damaged goods in any case. Totally untrustworthy.
Comments
It has no more to do with physical death than "dead heat", "die laughing" or "deathly silence" do.
My view is that we revoke parts of the Crime and Disorder Act 1998 and string him up for treason. Cue cries of "He said Jehovah! He said Jehovah!"
Similarly Mr. Corbyn can not afford the loss of face of allowing anybody else to be temporary PM. Therefore the best chance for him would be to agree a swift election before his weak position in Parliament is exposed. Oddly enough this means the Leader of the Opposition should “cut and run”.
Would genuinely like to hear the lawyers of PB tell us.
Leave and Remain have both preferred to go for broke in an election. So be it.
I personally would have compromised. I have little sympathy with any side & will almost certainly decline to vote at the general election.
However, I think there should be an election pretty much immediately. and have zero sympathy with those thwarting it.
Let's get the lottery over with now and see whether it is Leave or Remain who have won the jackpot.
For the same reason, references to cats are also deprecated.
https://twitter.com/britainelects/status/1169732589546037250?s=21
https://twitter.com/HackneyAbbott/status/1169716821378981888
https://twitter.com/britainelects/status/1169732589546037250
He is PM until he recommends to the Queen someone else who has the confidence of the HoC to be PM and the only people able to fulfil that role are probably Teresa May or Kenneth Clarke and even those options might lose a VoNC and cause the Queen embarrassment.
https://twitter.com/britainelects/status/1169732589546037250
Jo Cox comes to mind
Big_G, with respect: "die in a ditch" means "to make extreme sacrifices for a cause".
It has no more to do with physical death than "dead heat", "die laughing" or "deathly silence" do.
I think you suggesting he goes and does it is unnecessary.
But I know you would not mean it but at present we are struggling with serious family health issues and maybe I am a bit touchy !!!!
https://twitter.com/ElectionMapsUK/status/1169724548171874309?s=20
https://twitter.com/tjmayer1/status/1169733850081169408?s=21
Now were Parliament not being prorogued they could add it to the business for week beginning September 16th..
He is the alternative PM. A weakening of Labour to the LDs would strengthen the Conservative electoral chances.
VONC deafeats the government, Corbyn backs a time-limited* GONU under Ken Clarke with the sole mandate of saving the country from No Deal. Makes a statement along the lines of "country before me, country before party".
Election follows some weeks later, Corbyn's campaign centred on that message of selfless maturity in the face of crisis (and painting the Tories in general as the opposite).
That's a plausible strategy. Not bombproof, I know, and I cynics like us will see through it. But it could land very smoothly with an electorate uneasy with Boris's ambitious shenanigans.
*by agreement, which Europhile Tories would grab with both hands
May 2019 result Ind 46%, Con 37%, Lab 17% The entire ward is within the Coventry city boundary, though it is solidly middle class suburbia.
The government is just doing this to put pressure on the opposition . And any amendment even if it’s allowed isn’t legally enforceable .
Why on earth would the opposition vote to allow the serial liar a get out of jail card .
OK, Boris said "Do or Die" & so looks untrustworthy. But, Corby has been calling for an election for just about forever, so it makes him look just as untrustworthy to decline one.
It seems more likely to damage all the politicians.
Despite calling for one again and again and again.
Unlikely to happen, I know, but could be an incredible use of the soft pedal.
That said, ok a personal note, I’m glad I got some cash on a Corbyn majority last week, and I still think there’s some decent odds that’ll come in more over the next few weeks.
I am not saying you are wrong, I just don’t think that is on the board.
Of course, there is a financial incentive to stand, and some of them may only go through the motions.
Rory the Tory is an interesting candidate, but we had a by-election from Penrith South today. It doesn't bode well for him.
They would be doing better with literally any idiot* as leader.
*not Richard Burgon, obviously
You're right about it being very unlikely to happen, though. I wouldn't waste my money right now on JC being the next PM.
Labour wins elections on quick footwork, Tories win on punching power. The Tories are out of sorts, but they might just be able to keep the press on side enough for them to deliver the punches for them.
There is going to be an election, and if Boris wins, we will Brexit (whatever Bill is passed before the Election can't bind the successor Government).
We might as well get the election over with.
I think the vote against the election has damaged Corbyn, because his unique selling point was that he was straightforward. He was not a standard politician, not a devious twister like Boris or the LibDems.
He said what he meant. He was down the allotment digging honest earth and making honest jam.
But it now seems he did not say what he meant.
I didn't do anything that risked death.
He doesn’t want an election ever as he will get ditched by Labour after he loses again.
It's time we stopped being so flippant about them and started to try to treat our livestock with a little more dignity instead of comparing them to politicians.
The only comfort I take is that the breakdown of the coalition of low tax, Atlanticist, Singapore on Thames bunch, and the high spend, nativist, anti-foreigner nationalist bunch will be brutal.
Moreover, it will take place in government, probably with less than 40% support to begin with.
Bad night for Lady Nugee
A by-election is different. That is why the Tiggers would have been well advised to resign & fight by-elections.