Lol Labour MPs now backing the May deal. Too late you complete and utter ****s. Three fucking chances to push it through and now we're going to end up with a disaster no deal because you ****s couldn't stand up and be counted when it mattered.
I have even less respect for those MPs than for Grieve or Baker.
They are utter c*nts who don't even have the excuse of acting from conviction.
Spineless doesn’t even begin to describe the Scottish Tories. They are pure jelly.
I dare say there will be a bit of 'if only Saint Ruth's hand was on the tiller' revisionism, but I'm convinced they'd behave in exactly the same way if she was still in charge. We've got the evidence of the last two years to draw on after all.
If Boris fails and the UK remains then on the plus side it will finish Scottish Independence.
And the Tories will have cleared the stables.
If A happens it will finish Scottish independence.
If B happens it will finish Scottish independence.
If C happens it will finish Scottish independence.
... Ad infinitum.
There is always one more straw for the Brit Nats to cling on to. Until there isn’t.
Quite. You can’t “finish” an idea. An idea may rise and fall in popularity but it will never be “finished”. This binary Manichaeanism is what I find most dispiriting in modern politics.
If binary Manichaeanism is the thing you find most dispiriting in modern politics then you are a lucky man.
The thing I find most dispiriting about modern politics is that we have no decent journalists to hold the incompetent shits to account.
The two are related. Increasingly extreme clickbait (“Watch Nigel Farage DESTROY Remoaner caller”) pushes coverage to the extremes in the hope of getting attention, issues are not properly covered, partisan attacks replace the type of analysis required to hold these people to account. There’s too much shouting, too much media full stop.
So for the sake of argument if the unsures split evenly it is 331 vs 303, 52.2% vs 47.8%. Might as well get as close to the referendum percentages as they can, for the symbolism.
Lucas: "Mogg's body language has been contemptuous tonight"
I'm no fan of Mogg, but I think criticising people for body language is itself pretty darn petty, I think there are much better angles of attack. Possibly she has seen twitter moaning at his slouching and wants to be down with the kids?
The 15th (2nd day of Tabernacles) is significantly better than the 14th (the 1st day). The festival ends at nightfall on the 15th, which is around 7pm. So we'd have a few hours to clear up and get down the polling stations. Turnout would still definitely be down.
The other positive of the 15th is that those of us who care would at least be able to watch the results overnight, which would not be the case on the 14th...
Edit: further to the point made by @Chris, there are also those who would refrain from writing during the rest of the (9 days in total) festival, so that's Tuesday evening out as well, and also the rest of the week. It's a much smaller proportion of the community, though.
Lol Labour MPs now backing the May deal. Too late you complete and utter ****s. Three fucking chances to push it through and now we're going to end up with a disaster no deal because you ****s couldn't stand up and be counted when it mattered.
I have even less respect for those MPs than for Grieve or Baker.
They are utter c*nts who don't even have the excuse of acting from conviction.
When I say this, in much milder terms, everyone argues they are behaving perfectly properly. Will be interesting to see if that’s the case here
Lucas: "Mogg's body language has been contemptuous tonight"
I'm no fan of Mogg, but I think criticising people for body language is itself pretty darn petty, I think there are much better angles of attack. Possibly she has seen twitter moaning at his slouching and wants to be down with the kids?
He can sit up straight, straighten his tie (and sing the national anthem if he likes). Didn’t his nanny teach him that?
I know he's listening to the speaker, but "the optics" are terrible, and will appear on opposition posters at the election
No. This will not stand. JRM might be a creepy Victorian undertaker, ready to embalm democracy, but in this instance he is damn well doing his job and trying to listen, as best he can, to a backbencher. As you admit.
It is shameful that an MP is blatantly twisting this into some libelous meme. Hope she gets the clap, like she did before.
I know he's listening to the speaker, but "the optics" are terrible, and will appear on opposition posters at the election
No. This will not stand. JRM might be a creepy Victorian undertaker, ready to embalm democracy, but in this instance he is damn well doing his job and trying to listen, as best he can, to a backbencher. As you admit.
It is shameful that an MP is blatantly twisting this into some libelous meme. Hope she gets the clap, like she did before.
When you get reports like that it makes you wonder if a bunch of random thought generators like PB really are more clued up than these people. That's terrifying and I hope it is not true.
I know he's listening to the speaker, but "the optics" are terrible, and will appear on opposition posters at the election
No. This will not stand. JRM might be a creepy Victorian undertaker, ready to embalm democracy, but in this instance he is damn well doing his job and trying to listen, as best he can, to a backbencher. As you admit.
It is shameful that an MP is blatantly twisting this into some libelous meme. Hope she gets the clap, like she did before.
Lucas: "Mogg's body language has been contemptuous tonight"
I'm no fan of Mogg, but I think criticising people for body language is itself pretty darn petty, I think there are much better angles of attack. Possibly she has seen twitter moaning at his slouching and wants to be down with the kids?
He can sit up straight, straighten his tie (and sing the national anthem if he likes). Didn’t his nanny teach him that?
TBF, I’m pretty horizontal after listening to a couple of hours of this stuff. There are better reasons for finding him intolerable,
I know he's listening to the speaker, but "the optics" are terrible, and will appear on opposition posters at the election
The Moggster is saving a seat for the Chief Whip. He's like one of those twats on the train who says "someone is sitting there" when their mate hasn't even boarded the train yet.
Lucas: "Mogg's body language has been contemptuous tonight"
I'm no fan of Mogg, but I think criticising people for body language is itself pretty darn petty, I think there are much better angles of attack. Possibly she has seen twitter moaning at his slouching and wants to be down with the kids?
He's supposed to be doing his job, and he's supposed to be doing his job at an important time. If this was a momentary thing, a signal, then I think it was a poor choice of action, but if this was other than momentary then I think its disrespectful to pretty much everyone.
I know he's listening to the speaker, but "the optics" are terrible, and will appear on opposition posters at the election
No. This will not stand. JRM might be a creepy Victorian undertaker, ready to embalm democracy, but in this instance he is damn well doing his job and trying to listen, as best he can, to a backbencher. As you admit.
It is shameful that an MP is blatantly twisting this into some libelous meme. Hope she gets the clap, like she did before.
That he's never seen someone lay down like that to listen to the speaker does not mean he is not doing so for that reason, or make the guffaws at this arrogant fop less silly when they can focus on what this government is doing and saying instead.
Spineless doesn’t even begin to describe the Scottish Tories. They are pure jelly.
I dare say there will be a bit of 'if only Saint Ruth's hand was on the tiller' revisionism, but I'm convinced they'd behave in exactly the same way if she was still in charge. We've got the evidence of the last two years to draw on after all.
Ruth jumped before the inevitable crash. If she’d stayed in the driving seat she’d have gone down as the reckless driver. As it is, she is bashed, dismayed and bruised, but the Ruth myth lives on.
Wouldn’t surprise me to see her making a decent career of it post-independence.
No doubt it'll all be framed as part of the way to whip the public up for a people vs the parliament election (whenever they can get it over the line somehow), but I do wonder if Boris and co really considered how much Bercow can f*ck them if he really wants to.
I'm sure most of you know this but the reason some MPs look like they're slouching is practical. Acoustics in the Chamber are awful, but if you lie back with your ear to the loudspeakers positioned in the rear of the seats you can hear okay.
I also think that body posture is a pretty minor reason to criticise anyone, but Mogg's was pretty extreme. I've been mildly deaf for many years, but I could hear debate well just by leaning back on the bench towards the mike - you really don't need to go into full recline mode like Mogg.
More seriously, I think that Team Boris is being intellectually outgunned - the coalition stretching from Philip Hammond via Ken Clarke vis Hilary Benn via Tony Blair (whose elephant trap warning got serious attention) via Vince Cable via John McDonnell to Caroline Lucas knows procedure better, spots logical inconsistencies better and handles major debates better than Cummings and his insurgents.
That he's never seen someone lay down like that to listen to the speaker does not mean he is not doing so for that reason, and make the guffaws at this arrogant fop less silly when they can focus on what this government is doing and saying.
Strikes me as odd that Mogg who is supposed to be famous for his manners and courtsey should slouch on the seats.
Thornberry on BBC apparently saying that Labour will never trust a Boris request for a GE. As he might shift the date.
How does that work? Labour will never go for an election, ever?
Unless the polls start showing something like Lab 45% and Con 30% I fear cowardly Labour are going to have to be dragged kicking and screaming to a general election.
Seems that way but the lead was much bigger in 2017 and jezza was well up for it.
The change from 2017 to now is very odd. Maybe its because they can't play the "we'll respect the refernedum" card in their northern leave seats this time?
It's only temporary. As soon as there is an extension signed, sealed and delivered, they will back a general election.
I'm not certain Johnson will still want one, but we'll see. It might be out of his hands.
Not sure. @Byronic was reporting Thornberry as saying Labour would NEVER agree to a Johnson election?
And why does Labour care so much about an extension if they think they will win the election?
Everything they are sayling and doing today looks like they've pretty given up on any chance at the election and are desperate to avoid it.
It looks strange.
Byronic was, I believe, mistaken. The Guardian report Thornberry thusly "She says the party wants to see the bill ruling out a no-deal Brexit on 31 October passed first."
Only a matter of sequencing.
So if the tories got in with a huge majority on a platform of no deal their hands will still be tied?
(Unlikely I know)
A new government, elected with a majority on a manifesto commitment to take us out of the EU can do so at any time, and in any way that wins the support of a majority of MPs.
The point is to avoid no deal before Labour have a chance to takeover. If the voters choose Johnson and his no deal, so be it.
That he's never seen someone lay down like that to listen to the speaker does not mean he is not doing so for that reason, and make the guffaws at this arrogant fop less silly when they can focus on what this government is doing and saying.
Strikes me as odd that Mogg who is supposed to be famous for his manners and courtsey should slouch on the seats.
Perhaps the power is going to his head.
He seems quite prone to pettiness and petulance (for instance his complete invention of conventions for why May should resign even after winning a party VONC). Just a guess, but he might be the sort who is very charming and pleasant right up to the point he gets pissed off and then he throws a hissy fit like a child. His body language may well be terrible - but it is just so lame to moan about body language, that he is not listening respectfully enough. Would it be better if he sat there with a look of enraptured interest on his face and then stood up and said the same things he has said?
Disgraceful contempt for Parliament from IDS. The convention for centuries - centuries - as stated by Dicey is "pick it, lick it, roll it, and flick it (ideally at a Lib Dem)". He should know this - it's basic.
Thornberry on BBC apparently saying that Labour will never trust a Boris request for a GE. As he might shift the date.
How does that work? Labour will never go for an election, ever?
Unless the polls start showing something like Lab 45% and Con 30% I fear cowardly Labour are going to have to be dragged kicking and screaming to a general election.
Seems that way but the lead was much bigger in 2017 and jezza was well up for it.
The change from 2017 to now is very odd. Maybe its because they can't play the "we'll respect the refernedum" card in their northern leave seats this time?
It's only temporary. As soon as there is an extension signed, sealed and delivered, they will back a general election.
I'm not certain Johnson will still want one, but we'll see. It might be out of his hands.
Not sure. @Byronic was reporting Thornberry as saying Labour would NEVER agree to a Johnson election?
And why does Labour care so much about an extension if they think they will win the election?
Everything they are sayling and doing today looks like they've pretty given up on any chance at the election and are desperate to avoid it.
It looks strange.
Byronic was, I believe, mistaken. The Guardian report Thornberry thusly "She says the party wants to see the bill ruling out a no-deal Brexit on 31 October passed first."
Only a matter of sequencing.
So if the tories got in with a huge majority on a platform of no deal their hands will still be tied?
(Unlikely I know)
A new government, elected with a majority on a manifesto commitment to take us out of the EU can do so at any time, and in any way that wins the support of a majority of MPs.
The point is to avoid no deal before Labour have a chance to takeover. If the voters choose Johnson and his no deal, so be it.
We can leave the EU at any time we want simply by repealing the European Communities Act of 1973.
It would be an ugly way to depart, but it is that Act that gives the EU legal power in the UK. Its repeal would mean that UK courts would no longer recognise the EU.
The "success" of reducing your majority by firing your MPs is brought to you by the same party that thinks you increase trade by tearing up your biggest trading treaty.
Morons are not in it... morons are much, much brighter than this shower.
Disgraceful contempt for Parliament from IDS. The convention for centuries - centuries - as stated by Dicey is "pick it, lick it, roll it, and flick it (ideally at a Lib Dem)". He should know this - it's basic.
My copy of Erskine May bears this out. Used to be flick it at a Whig, but times have changed of course. Sir Reginald Bottomly-Heslethwaite, MP for Upper Bleedingthorpe, successfully argued it as a duty of the House in 1745.
Comments
52/48, basically
What did we do to deserve this trolling from God?
They are utter c*nts who don't even have the excuse of acting from conviction.
Stirling to Alloa done yesterday evening
Craigendoran to Oban done today - in the pouring rain
I wonder when the modern, UK version of krystalnaucht will be scheduled?
I know he's listening to the speaker, but "the optics" are terrible, and will appear on opposition posters at the election
The other positive of the 15th is that those of us who care would at least be able to watch the results overnight, which would not be the case on the 14th...
Edit: further to the point made by @Chris, there are also those who would refrain from writing during the rest of the (9 days in total) festival, so that's Tuesday evening out as well, and also the rest of the week. It's a much smaller proportion of the community, though.
Or so we are led to believe.
When I say this, in much milder terms, everyone argues they are behaving perfectly properly. Will be interesting to see if that’s the case here
* I'm not recommending listening, it's dire.
No. This will not stand. JRM might be a creepy Victorian undertaker, ready to embalm democracy, but in this instance he is damn well doing his job and trying to listen, as best he can, to a backbencher. As you admit.
It is shameful that an MP is blatantly twisting this into some libelous meme. Hope she gets the clap, like she did before.
https://twitter.com/UKDemockery/status/1168982543842107392?s=20
Yes, a trifle unfair but Miliband’s Sarnie and all that.
https://twitter.com/drjennings/status/1168985382869975042
I'd think the contempt of his words is a stronger point.
There are better reasons for finding him intolerable,
I know what he is doing but he looks ridiculous and is a gift to his opponents
He did not accidentally find himself so disposed.
(I quite like Rees-Mogg)
Wouldn’t surprise me to see her making a decent career of it post-independence.
More seriously, I think that Team Boris is being intellectually outgunned - the coalition stretching from Philip Hammond via Ken Clarke vis Hilary Benn via Tony Blair (whose elephant trap warning got serious attention) via Vince Cable via John McDonnell to Caroline Lucas knows procedure better, spots logical inconsistencies better and handles major debates better than Cummings and his insurgents.
A month ago that would have been:
"This is ******* well such a ******* powefully stupid ****** thing to ******* do!
Perhaps the power is going to his head.
The point is to avoid no deal before Labour have a chance to takeover. If the voters choose Johnson and his no deal, so be it.
- if Rebels/Opposition win tonight and pass No No-Deal bill tomorrow
- Johnson also cannot get FTPA election through
Limbo ? Specially if they withdraw the whip of 15 MPs.
Many on here like it.
It would be an ugly way to depart, but it is that Act that gives the EU legal power in the UK. Its repeal would mean that UK courts would no longer recognise the EU.
Parliament Vs The People will be set up perfectly in around 15 minutes.
The "success" of reducing your majority by firing your MPs is brought to you by the same party that thinks you increase trade by tearing up your biggest trading treaty.
Morons are not in it... morons are much, much brighter than this shower.
Boris GAIN Bootle at the next election?