So. If Corbyn refuses to have an election at Boris’s command, he will be accused of being frit.
Considering the government has constantly told us that the public does not want an election, its not exactly going to cost Jezza any votes.
Therefore, he has nothing to lose. He just needs to make Boris stew.
The Tory Party has 2 11% leads and 1 7% lead in the 3 latest polls since Cummings too over, in 1 of those polls Corbyn Labour was just 1% ahead of the LDs and in another just 3% ahead of the LDs.
If Corbyn backs further extension and continues to block Brexit while refusing to commit to back Remain in all circumstances Boris can just lie back and watch his lead grow as he continues to squeeze the Brexit Party vote while Corbyn risks seeing Labour fall to 3rd behind the LDs.
Except he won’t have delivered Brexit and won’t be able to govern.
Boris will have committed to deliver Brexit and if necessary will prorogue Parliament past October 31st to ensure it is delivered.
I really think you need some kind of help.
The people who need help are diehard Remainers defying the will of the people, this is war now
Come on HYUFD this is not war and you demean yourself by suggesting it
Entertaining though it is to see Boris, Raab, Rees-Mogg etc coming round to the view that three-line whips should be obeyed by Conservative MPs, in the larger scheme of things this is an irrelevance. It's very simple. Either parliament takes back control or it doesn't. If it does, Boris will be shown up as impotent, which will crush him. If it doesn't, he will achieve a very short-lived 'victory' of crashing us out in chaos, which quite apart from the damage it will to do to the country, will crush the Conservative Party for a generation.
So. If Corbyn refuses to have an election at Boris’s command, he will be accused of being frit.
Considering the government has constantly told us that the public does not want an election, its not exactly going to cost Jezza any votes.
Therefore, he has nothing to lose. He just needs to make Boris stew.
The Tory Party has 2 11% leads and 1 7% lead in the 3 latest polls since Cummings too over, in 1 of those polls Corbyn Labour was just 1% ahead of the LDs and in another just 3% ahead of the LDs.
If Corbyn backs further extension and continues to block Brexit while refusing to commit to back Remain in all circumstances Boris can just lie back and watch his lead grow as he continues to squeeze the Brexit Party vote while Corbyn risks seeing Labour fall to 3rd behind the LDs.
Except he won’t have delivered Brexit and won’t be able to govern.
Boris will have committed to deliver Brexit and if necessary will prorogue Parliament past October 31st to ensure it is delivered.
Boris and Cummings will deliver Brexit no matter what the cost
If they in fact do prorogue beyond October 31 I think we will see civil unrest.
Would even the Queen allow a 2nd rapid fire proroguing?
The courts may even rule it illegal.
Not that I think it will happen, nor want it to happen, but illegal under what law? It's a prerogative power.
So. If Corbyn refuses to have an election at Boris’s command, he will be accused of being frit.
Considering the government has constantly told us that the public does not want an election, its not exactly going to cost Jezza any votes.
Therefore, he has nothing to lose. He just needs to make Boris stew.
The Tory Party has 2 11% leads and 1 7% lead in the 3 latest polls since Cummings too over, in 1 of those polls Corbyn Labour was just 1% ahead of the LDs and in another just 3% ahead of the LDs.
If Corbyn backs further extension and continues to block Brexit while refusing to commit to back Remain in all circumstances Boris can just lie back and watch his lead grow as he continues to squeeze the Brexit Party vote while Corbyn risks seeing Labour fall to 3rd behind the LDs.
Except he won’t have delivered Brexit and won’t be able to govern.
Boris will have committed to deliver Brexit and if necessary will prorogue Parliament past October 31st to ensure it is delivered.
I really think you need some kind of help.
The people who need help are diehard Remainers defying the will of the people, this is war now
getting on for 1 million Leavers dead already and going at about 6,000 per week
Of all the arguments that is one that is more than unpleasant and demonstates political ambition is greater than peoples individual iives. It is just unnecessary
So. If Corbyn refuses to have an election at Boris’s command, he will be accused of being frit.
Considering the government has constantly told us that the public does not want an election, its not exactly going to cost Jezza any votes.
Therefore, he has nothing to lose. He just needs to make Boris stew.
The Tory Party has 2 11% leads and 1 7% lead in the 3 latest polls since Cummings too over, in 1 of those polls Corbyn Labour was just 1% ahead of the LDs and in another just 3% ahead of the LDs.
If Corbyn backs further extension and continues to block Brexit while refusing to commit to back Remain in all circumstances Boris can just lie back and watch his lead grow as he continues to squeeze the Brexit Party vote while Corbyn risks seeing Labour fall to 3rd behind the LDs.
Except he won’t have delivered Brexit and won’t be able to govern.
Boris will have committed to deliver Brexit and if necessary will prorogue Parliament past October 31st to ensure it is delivered.
I really think you need some kind of help.
The people who need help are diehard Remainers defying the will of the people, this is war now
getting on for 1 million Leavers dead already and going at about 6,000 per week
Of all the arguments that is one that is more than unpleasant and demonstates political ambition is greater than peoples individual iives. It is just unnecessary
It is a psephological fact, whether you like it or not.
So. If Corbyn refuses to have an election at Boris’s command, he will be accused of being frit.
Considering the government has constantly told us that the public does not want an election, its not exactly going to cost Jezza any votes.
Therefore, he has nothing to lose. He just needs to make Boris stew.
The Tory Party has 2 11% leads and 1 7% lead in the 3 latest polls since Cummings too over, in 1 of those polls Corbyn Labour was just 1% ahead of the LDs and in another just 3% ahead of the LDs.
If Corbyn backs further extension and continues to block Brexit while refusing to commit to back Remain in all circumstances Boris can just lie back and watch his lead grow as he continues to squeeze the Brexit Party vote while Corbyn risks seeing Labour fall to 3rd behind the LDs.
Except he won’t have delivered Brexit and won’t be able to govern.
Boris will have committed to deliver Brexit and if necessary will prorogue Parliament past October 31st to ensure it is delivered.
I really think you need some kind of help.
The people who need help are diehard Remainers defying the will of the people, this is war now
getting on for 1 million Leavers dead already and going at about 6,000 per week
Of all the arguments that is one that is more than unpleasant and demonstates political ambition is greater than peoples individual iives. It is just unnecessary
JRM asks MPs to support the Govt in its negotiations. I did. I voted for the conclusions of the negotiations brought to Parliament in the WA. JRM, his friends and current Cabinet members did not. Why am I, having loyally supported, now being threatened and not them? https://t.co/vCHLTeufrf
So. If Corbyn refuses to have an election at Boris’s command, he will be accused of being frit.
Considering the government has constantly told us that the public does not want an election, its not exactly going to cost Jezza any votes.
Therefore, he has nothing to lose. He just needs to make Boris stew.
The Tory Party has 2 11% leads and 1 7% lead in the 3 latest polls since Cummings too over, in 1 of those polls Corbyn Labour was just 1% ahead of the LDs and in another just 3% ahead of the LDs.
If Corbyn backs further extension and continues to block Brexit while refusing to commit to back Remain in all circumstances Boris can just lie back and watch his lead grow as he continues to squeeze the Brexit Party vote while Corbyn risks seeing Labour fall to 3rd behind the LDs.
Except he won’t have delivered Brexit and won’t be able to govern.
Boris will have committed to deliver Brexit and if necessary will prorogue Parliament past October 31st to ensure it is delivered.
Boris and Cummings will deliver Brexit no matter what the cost
If they in fact do prorogue beyond October 31 I think we will see civil unrest.
Would even the Queen allow a 2nd rapid fire proroguing?
The courts may even rule it illegal.
Not that I think it will happen, nor want it to happen, but illegal under what law? It's a prerogative power.
So. If Corbyn refuses to have an election at Boris’s command, he will be accused of being frit.
Considering the government has constantly told us that the public does not want an election, its not exactly going to cost Jezza any votes.
Therefore, he has nothing to lose. He just needs to make Boris stew.
The Tory Party has 2 11% leads and 1 7% lead in the 3 latest polls since Cummings too over, in 1 of those polls Corbyn Labour was just 1% ahead of the LDs and in another just 3% ahead of the LDs.
If Corbyn backs further extension and continues to block Brexit while refusing to commit to back Remain in all circumstances Boris can just lie back and watch his lead grow as he continues to squeeze the Brexit Party vote while Corbyn risks seeing Labour fall to 3rd behind the LDs.
Except he won’t have delivered Brexit and won’t be able to govern.
Boris will have committed to deliver Brexit and if necessary will prorogue Parliament past October 31st to ensure it is delivered.
I really think you need some kind of help.
The people who need help are diehard Remainers defying the will of the people, this is war now
If the backbench legislation says 'pm must seek extension' then Boris can go and ask for something so short it's immaterial. A day, or five minutes. Hardly worth firing 20 MPs over that.
If it says 'must also accept any extension offered' or 'must revoke in the absence of agreed extension', it won't pass anyway. So no point firing here either.
So what will that draft legislation say?
Parliament k=legislating for an extension is playing right into Cumming's hands, they are let off the hook but can blame parliament for the extension. Parliament would be very unwise to fall into that trap
So. If Corbyn refuses to have an election at Boris’s command, he will be accused of being frit.
Considering the government has constantly told us that the public does not want an election, its not exactly going to cost Jezza any votes.
Therefore, he has nothing to lose. He just needs to make Boris stew.
The Tory Party has 2 11% leads and 1 7% lead in the 3 latest polls since Cummings too over, in 1 of those polls Corbyn Labour was just 1% ahead of the LDs and in another just 3% ahead of the LDs.
If Corbyn backs further extension and continues to block Brexit while refusing to commit to back Remain in all circumstances Boris can just lie back and watch his lead grow as he continues to squeeze the Brexit Party vote while Corbyn risks seeing Labour fall to 3rd behind the LDs.
Except he won’t have delivered Brexit and won’t be able to govern.
Boris will have committed to deliver Brexit and if necessary will prorogue Parliament past October 31st to ensure it is delivered.
I really think you need some kind of help.
The people who need help are diehard Remainers defying the will of the people, this is war now
getting on for 1 million Leavers dead already and going at about 6,000 per week
Of all the arguments that is one that is more than unpleasant and demonstates political ambition is greater than peoples individual iives. It is just unnecessary
It's not an argument. It's a fact.
Are you still a member by the way?
If so...why?
It is unpleasant and shows a lack of respect. It also hurts those of us who have lost friends and relatives recently
My membership is retained unless we leave with no deal.
If the backbench legislation says 'pm must seek extension' then Boris can go and ask for something so short it's immaterial. A day, or five minutes. Hardly worth firing 20 MPs over that.
If it says 'must also accept any extension offered' or 'must revoke in the absence of agreed extension', it won't pass anyway. So no point firing here either.
So what will that draft legislation say?
Parliament k=legislating for an extension is playing right into Cumming's hands, they are let off the hook but can blame parliament for the extension. Parliament would be very unwise to fall into that trap
Who gives a shit? I’d rather just avoid a No Deal, thanks.
If high profile figures like Grieve, Hammond, Gayle, Clarke and Letwin did stand as independent Conservatives in their constituencies, I wonder how many votes they’d get.
JRM asks MPs to support the Govt in its negotiations. I did. I voted for the conclusions of the negotiations brought to Parliament in the WA. JRM, his friends and current Cabinet members did not. Why am I, having loyally supported, now being threatened and not them? https://t.co/vCHLTeufrf
So. If Corbyn refuses to have an election at Boris’s command, he will be accused of being frit.
Considering the government has constantly told us that the public does not want an election, its not exactly going to cost Jezza any votes.
Therefore, he has nothing to lose. He just needs to make Boris stew.
The Tory Party has 2 11% leads and 1 7% lead in the 3 latest polls since Cummings too over, in 1 of those polls Corbyn Labour was just 1% ahead of the LDs and in another just 3% ahead of the LDs.
If Corbyn backs further extension and continues to block Brexit while refusing to commit to back Remain in all circumstances Boris can just lie back and watch his lead grow as he continues to squeeze the Brexit Party vote while Corbyn risks seeing Labour fall to 3rd behind the LDs.
Except he won’t have delivered Brexit and won’t be able to govern.
Boris will have committed to deliver Brexit and if necessary will prorogue Parliament past October 31st to ensure it is delivered.
Boris and Cummings will deliver Brexit no matter what the cost
If they in fact do prorogue beyond October 31 I think we will see civil unrest.
Would even the Queen allow a 2nd rapid fire proroguing?
The courts may even rule it illegal.
Not that I think it will happen, nor want it to happen, but illegal under what law? It's a prerogative power.
The advice given to the monarch by the executive to prorogue is subject to judicial revue - as we are currently seeing. The actual prerogative power itself is effectively a rubber stamp, so beside the question.
So. If Corbyn refuses to have an election at Boris’s command, he will be accused of being frit.
Considering the government has constantly told us that the public does not want an election, its not exactly going to cost Jezza any votes.
Therefore, he has nothing to lose. He just needs to make Boris stew.
The Tory Party has 2 11% leads and 1 7% lead in the 3 latest polls since Cummings too over, in 1 of those polls Corbyn Labour was just 1% ahead of the LDs and in another just 3% ahead of the LDs.
If Corbyn backs further extension and continues to block Brexit while refusing to commit to back Remain in all circumstances Boris can just lie back and watch his lead grow as he continues to squeeze the Brexit Party vote while Corbyn risks seeing Labour fall to 3rd behind the LDs.
Except he won’t have delivered Brexit and won’t be able to govern.
Boris will have committed to deliver Brexit and if necessary will prorogue Parliament past October 31st to ensure it is delivered.
I really think you need some kind of help.
The people who need help are diehard Remainers defying the will of the people, this is war now
getting on for 1 million Leavers dead already and going at about 6,000 per week
Of all the arguments that is one that is more than unpleasant and demonstates political ambition is greater than peoples individual iives. It is just unnecessary
Demographics! I know people who voted Remain who are no longer with us as well. Sad to see anyone go but death is part of life and those left behind are more important than who have departed.
Entertaining though it is to see Boris, Raab, Rees-Mogg etc coming round to the view that three-line whips should be obeyed by Conservative MPs, in the larger scheme of things this is an irrelevance. It's very simple. Either parliament takes back control or it doesn't. If it does, Boris will be shown up as impotent, which will crush him. If it doesn't, he will achieve a very short-lived 'victory' of crashing us out in chaos, which quite apart from the damage it will to do to the country, will crush the Conservative Party for a generation.
This is government by panic.
Do parliament want to take control?
Surely better to let Johnson fail to renegotiate a Deal and then have him in a position where he has to ask for an extension or leave with no Deal.
So. If Corbyn refuses to have an election at Boris’s command, he will be accused of being frit.
Considering the government has constantly told us that the public does not want an election, its not exactly going to cost Jezza any votes.
Therefore, he has nothing to lose. He just needs to make Boris stew.
The Tory Party has 2 11% leads and 1 7% lead in the 3 latest polls since Cummings too over, in 1 of those polls Corbyn Labour was just 1% ahead of the LDs and in another just 3% ahead of the LDs.
If Corbyn backs further extension and continues to block Brexit while refusing to commit to back Remain in all circumstances Boris can just lie back and watch his lead grow as he continues to squeeze the Brexit Party vote while Corbyn risks seeing Labour fall to 3rd behind the LDs.
Except he won’t have delivered Brexit and won’t be able to govern.
Boris will have committed to deliver Brexit and if necessary will prorogue Parliament past October 31st to ensure it is delivered.
I really think you need some kind of help.
The people who need help are diehard Remainers defying the will of the people, this is war now
getting on for 1 million Leavers dead already and going at about 6,000 per week
Of all the arguments that is one that is more than unpleasant and demonstates political ambition is greater than peoples individual iives. It is just unnecessary
It's not an argument. It's a fact.
Are you still a member by the way?
If so...why?
It is unpleasant and shows a lack of respect. It also hurts those of us who have lost friends and relatives recently
My membership is retained unless we leave with no deal.
Some facts, rather like many Tory policies, are unpleasant.
I hope you remain a member for many years to come.
JRM asks MPs to support the Govt in its negotiations. I did. I voted for the conclusions of the negotiations brought to Parliament in the WA. JRM, his friends and current Cabinet members did not. Why am I, having loyally supported, now being threatened and not them? https://t.co/vCHLTeufrf
Entertaining though it is to see Boris, Raab, Rees-Mogg etc coming round to the view that three-line whips should be obeyed by Conservative MPs, in the larger scheme of things this is an irrelevance. It's very simple. Either parliament takes back control or it doesn't. If it does, Boris will be shown up as impotent, which will crush him. If it doesn't, he will achieve a very short-lived 'victory' of crashing us out in chaos, which quite apart from the damage it will to do to the country, will crush the Conservative Party for a generation.
This is government by panic.
Do parliament want to take control?
Surely better to let Johnson fail to renegotiate a Deal and then have him in a position where he has to ask for an extension or leave with no Deal.
That's a good question. Labour under Corbyn may still be playing party-political games, rather than acting in the interests of the country. I guess we'll find out in the next couple of days.
So. If Corbyn refuses to have an election at Boris’s command, he will be accused of being frit.
Considering the government has constantly told us that the public does not want an election, its not exactly going to cost Jezza any votes.
Therefore, he has nothing to lose. He just needs to make Boris stew.
The Tory Party has 2 11% leads and 1 7% lead in the 3 latest polls since Cummings too over, in 1 of those polls Corbyn Labour was just 1% ahead of the LDs and in another just 3% ahead of the LDs.
If Corbyn backs further extension and continues to block Brexit while refusing to commit to back Remain in all circumstances Boris can just lie back and watch his lead grow as he continues to squeeze the Brexit Party vote while Corbyn risks seeing Labour fall to 3rd behind the LDs.
Except he won’t have delivered Brexit and won’t be able to govern.
Boris will have committed to deliver Brexit and if necessary will prorogue Parliament past October 31st to ensure it is delivered.
I really think you need some kind of help.
The people who need help are diehard Remainers defying the will of the people, this is war now
getting on for 1 million Leavers dead already and going at about 6,000 per week
Of all the arguments that is one that is more than unpleasant and demonstates political ambition is greater than peoples individual iives. It is just unnecessary
Demographics! I know people who voted Remain who are no longer with us as well. Sad to see anyone go but death is part of life and those left behind are more important than who have departed.
I do not disagree but trying to score political points over the deaths of people is bad taste. I would ask would the same point be made if the deaths were predominantly remainers
There are a number of Tory MPs who are standing down at the next election and therefore couldn’t care less about deselection: Harrington, Clarke, Bebb, Letwin.
Entertaining though it is to see Boris, Raab, Rees-Mogg etc coming round to the view that three-line whips should be obeyed by Conservative MPs, in the larger scheme of things this is an irrelevance. It's very simple. Either parliament takes back control or it doesn't. If it does, Boris will be shown up as impotent, which will crush him. If it doesn't, he will achieve a very short-lived 'victory' of crashing us out in chaos, which quite apart from the damage it will to do to the country, will crush the Conservative Party for a generation.
This is government by panic.
Do parliament want to take control?
Surely better to let Johnson fail to renegotiate a Deal and then have him in a position where he has to ask for an extension or leave with no Deal.
That's a good question. Labour under Corbyn may still be playing party-political games, rather than acting in the interests of the country. I guess we'll find out in the next couple of days.
A smart Labour leader would seize the chance to act in the national interest. So you know exactly what will happen.
So. If Corbyn refuses to have an election at Boris’s command, he will be accused of being frit.
Considering the government has constantly told us that the public does not want an election, its not exactly going to cost Jezza any votes.
Therefore, he has nothing to lose. He just needs to make Boris stew.
The Tory Party has 2 11% leads and 1 7% lead in the 3 latest polls since Cummings too over, in 1 of those polls Corbyn Labour was just 1% ahead of the LDs and in another just 3% ahead of the LDs.
If Corbyn backs further extension and continues to block Brexit while refusing to commit to back Remain in all circumstances Boris can just lie back and watch his lead grow as he continues to squeeze the Brexit Party vote while Corbyn risks seeing Labour fall to 3rd behind the LDs.
Except he won’t have delivered Brexit and won’t be able to govern.
Boris will have committed to deliver Brexit and if necessary will prorogue Parliament past October 31st to ensure it is delivered.
Boris and Cummings will deliver Brexit no matter what the cost
If they in fact do prorogue beyond October 31 I think we will see civil unrest.
Would even the Queen allow a 2nd rapid fire proroguing?
The courts may even rule it illegal.
Not that I think it will happen, nor want it to happen, but illegal under what law? It's a prerogative power.
The advice given to the monarch by the executive to prorogue is subject to judicial revue ...
Thank you for the image of a line of red-robed judges performing a Tiller Girls routine. :-)
'Boris and Cummings will deliver Brexit no matter what the cost'
Can I just repeat that cracker again. 'No matter what the cost' This is what we are dealing with here.
Luckily it is such an insane worldview, this vision that Johnson and his merry band of loons are channelling, that they are doing a fantastic job of uniting former foes across a wide swathe of the political spectrum, from moderate Tories and Lib Dems to Blairites and Greens and Corbynistas, who have given up squabbling and are gawping as one in sheer horror at this completely un-British spectacle being visited upon us. If this was Cummings' magical gameplan, then, well done him.
So. If Corbyn refuses to have an election at Boris’s command, he will be accused of being frit.
Considering the government has constantly told us that the public does not want an election, its not exactly going to cost Jezza any votes.
Therefore, he has nothing to lose. He just needs to make Boris stew.
The Tory Party has 2 11% leads and 1 7% lead in the 3 latest polls since Cummings too over, in 1 of those polls Corbyn Labour was just 1% ahead of the LDs and in another just 3% ahead of the LDs.
If Corbyn backs further extension and continues to block Brexit while refusing to commit to back Remain in all circumstances Boris can just lie back and watch his lead grow as he continues to squeeze the Brexit Party vote while Corbyn risks seeing Labour fall to 3rd behind the LDs.
Except he won’t have delivered Brexit and won’t be able to govern.
Boris will have committed to deliver Brexit and if necessary will prorogue Parliament past October 31st to ensure it is delivered.
I really think you need some kind of help.
The people who need help are diehard Remainers defying the will of the people, this is war now
getting on for 1 million Leavers dead already and going at about 6,000 per week
Of all the arguments that is one that is more than unpleasant and demonstates political ambition is greater than peoples individual iives. It is just unnecessary
Demographics! I know people who voted Remain who are no longer with us as well. Sad to see anyone go but death is part of life and those left behind are more important than who have departed.
There is a serious problem in the polling industry that they are struggling to find enough leavers to reflect the 2016 vote Mr Meeks was offering a header on this last night that could be interesting. But you can’t escape the fact that enough of those who voted leave have passed on to the great brexit future in the sky to make it somewhat closer now
IANAL, but aren't there requirements about A50 having to be conducted in accordance with the constitutional arrangements of the exiting state?
In which case would any anti No Deal legislation, even if simple ignored by HMG (a government possibly being held in suspended animation by the FTPA) be relevant to the legality of the Exit and be challengeable up to and Including the ECJ?
Depends, I suppose, on the extent to which A50 demands constitutionality, and the extent to which any anti No Deal laws affect constitutionality rather than just legality.
A No Deal Brexit suspended by the ECJ after a few weeks of creeping chaos, that suspension possibly met with a substantial majority hallelujah, would be a fun backdrop against which Boris could fight the eventual GE. One can but dream
So. If Corbyn refuses to have an election at Boris’s command, he will be accused of being frit.
Considering the government has constantly told us that the public does not want an election, its not exactly going to cost Jezza any votes.
Therefore, he has nothing to lose. He just needs to make Boris stew.
The Tory Party has 2 11% leads and 1 7% lead in the 3 latest polls since Cummings too over, in 1 of those polls Corbyn Labour was just 1% ahead of the LDs and in another just 3% ahead of the LDs.
If Corbyn backs further extension and continues to block Brexit while refusing to commit to back Remain in all circumstances Boris can just lie back and watch his lead grow as he continues to squeeze the Brexit Party vote while Corbyn risks seeing Labour fall to 3rd behind the LDs.
Except he won’t have delivered Brexit and won’t be able to govern.
Boris will have committed to deliver Brexit and if necessary will prorogue Parliament past October 31st to ensure it is delivered.
I really think you need some kind of help.
The people who need help are diehard Remainers defying the will of the people, this is war now
getting on for 1 million Leavers dead already and going at about 6,000 per week
Of all the arguments that is one that is more than unpleasant and demonstates political ambition is greater than peoples individual iives. It is just unnecessary
The manner of the comment was a bit distasteful, but there is a serious point behind it. One might also note that all those teenagers who were outraged not to have a vote on their future, back in 2106, would now get a say if there were a second referendum.
If high profile figures like Grieve, Hammond, Gayle, Clarke and Letwin did stand as independent Conservatives in their constituencies, I wonder how many votes they’d get.
Letwin is standing down.
Things change.
I’m not just being a pedant - the difference is real. MPs standing down will have wound down their public appearances, their association chairmen will be looking for replacements, there will be locals who have been supporting various applicants etc.
It’s a whole lot more difficult to turn that into an independent candidacy.
Entertaining though it is to see Boris, Raab, Rees-Mogg etc coming round to the view that three-line whips should be obeyed by Conservative MPs, in the larger scheme of things this is an irrelevance. It's very simple. Either parliament takes back control or it doesn't. If it does, Boris will be shown up as impotent, which will crush him. If it doesn't, he will achieve a very short-lived 'victory' of crashing us out in chaos, which quite apart from the damage it will to do to the country, will crush the Conservative Party for a generation.
This is government by panic.
Do parliament want to take control?
Surely better to let Johnson fail to renegotiate a Deal and then have him in a position where he has to ask for an extension or leave with no Deal.
That's a good question. Labour under Corbyn may still be playing party-political games, rather than acting in the interests of the country. I guess we'll find out in the next couple of days.
A smart Labour leader would seize the chance to act in the national interest. So you know exactly what will happen.
True. What's more, even in the narrowest of party-political terms, making Boris look impotent and irrelevant is in Labour's interest, so this is one of those rare occasions where party-political calculation and the national interest are quite well aligned.
So. If Corbyn refuses to have an election at Boris’s command, he will be accused of being frit.
Considering the government has constantly told us that the public does not want an election, its not exactly going to cost Jezza any votes.
Therefore, he has nothing to lose. He just needs to make Boris stew.
The Tory Party has 2 11% leads and 1 7% lead in the 3 latest polls since Cummings too over, in 1 of those polls Corbyn Labour was just 1% ahead of the LDs and in another just 3% ahead of the LDs.
If Corbyn backs further extension and continues to block Brexit while refusing to commit to back Remain in all circumstances Boris can just lie back and watch his lead grow as he continues to squeeze the Brexit Party vote while Corbyn risks seeing Labour fall to 3rd behind the LDs.
Except he won’t have delivered Brexit and won’t be able to govern.
Boris will have committed to deliver Brexit and if necessary will prorogue Parliament past October 31st to ensure it is delivered.
I really think you need some kind of help.
The people who need help are diehard Remainers defying the will of the people, this is war now
getting on for 1 million Leavers dead already and going at about 6,000 per week
Of all the arguments that is one that is more than unpleasant and demonstates political ambition is greater than peoples individual iives. It is just unnecessary
Demographics! I know people who voted Remain who are no longer with us as well. Sad to see anyone go but death is part of life and those left behind are more important than who have departed.
There is a serious problem in the polling industry that they are struggling to find enough leavers to reflect the 2016 vote Mr Meeks was offering a header on this last night that could be interesting. But you can’t escape the fact that enough of those who voted leave have passed on to the great brexit future in the sky to make it somewhat closer now
Indeed, I wonder how many shy Remainers or Leavers are skewing the opinion polls.
So. If Corbyn refuses to have an election at Boris’s command, he will be accused of being frit.
Considering the government has constantly told us that the public does not want an election, its not exactly going to cost Jezza any votes.
Therefore, he has nothing to lose. He just needs to make Boris stew.
The Tory Party has 2 11% leads and 1 7% lead in the 3 latest polls since Cummings too over, in 1 of those polls Corbyn Labour was just 1% ahead of the LDs and in another just 3% ahead of the LDs.
If Corbyn backs further extension and continues to block Brexit while refusing to commit to back Remain in all circumstances Boris can just lie back and watch his lead grow as he continues to squeeze the Brexit Party vote while Corbyn risks seeing Labour fall to 3rd behind the LDs.
Except he won’t have delivered Brexit and won’t be able to govern.
Boris will have committed to deliver Brexit and if necessary will prorogue Parliament past October 31st to ensure it is delivered.
Boris and Cummings will deliver Brexit no matter what the cost
If they in fact do prorogue beyond October 31 I think we will see civil unrest.
Would even the Queen allow a 2nd rapid fire proroguing?
The courts may even rule it illegal.
Not that I think it will happen, nor want it to happen, but illegal under what law? It's a prerogative power.
The advice given to the monarch by the executive to prorogue is subject to judicial revue ...
Thank you for the image of a line of red-robed judges performing a Tiller Girls routine. :-)
I’ve always been something of a constitutional innovator.
Entertaining though it is to see Boris, Raab, Rees-Mogg etc coming round to the view that three-line whips should be obeyed by Conservative MPs, in the larger scheme of things this is an irrelevance. It's very simple. Either parliament takes back control or it doesn't. If it does, Boris will be shown up as impotent, which will crush him. If it doesn't, he will achieve a very short-lived 'victory' of crashing us out in chaos, which quite apart from the damage it will to do to the country, will crush the Conservative Party for a generation.
This is government by panic.
Do parliament want to take control?
Surely better to let Johnson fail to renegotiate a Deal and then have him in a position where he has to ask for an extension or leave with no Deal.
That's a good question. Labour under Corbyn may still be playing party-political games, rather than acting in the interests of the country. I guess we'll find out in the next couple of days.
A smart Labour leader would seize the chance to act in the national interest. So you know exactly what will happen.
True. What's more, even in the narrowest of party-political terms, making Boris look impotent and irrelevant is in Labour's interest, so this is one of those rare occasions where party-political calculation and the national interest are quite well aligned.
Yep, I suspect John McDonnell and Keir Starmer get this. Presumably they have spent a lot of time this weekend talking very slowly, using short words and drawing lots of pictures to try to get Corbyn to understand it, too.
So. If Corbyn refuses to have an election at Boris’s command, he will be accused of being frit.
Considering the government has constantly told us that the public does not want an election, its not exactly going to cost Jezza any votes.
Therefore, he has nothing to lose. He just needs to make Boris stew.
The Tory Party has 2 11% leads and 1 7% lead in the 3 latest polls since Cummings too over, in 1 of those polls Corbyn Labour was just 1% ahead of the LDs and in another just 3% ahead of the LDs.
If Corbyn backs further extension and continues to block Brexit while refusing to commit to back Remain in all circumstances Boris can just lie back and watch his lead grow as he continues to squeeze the Brexit Party vote while Corbyn risks seeing Labour fall to 3rd behind the LDs.
Except he won’t have delivered Brexit and won’t be able to govern.
Boris will have committed to deliver Brexit and if necessary will prorogue Parliament past October 31st to ensure it is delivered.
I really think you need some kind of help.
The people who need help are diehard Remainers defying the will of the people, this is war now
getting on for 1 million Leavers dead already and going at about 6,000 per week
Of all the arguments that is one that is more than unpleasant and demonstates political ambition is greater than peoples individual iives. It is just unnecessary
Demographics! I know people who voted Remain who are no longer with us as well. Sad to see anyone go but death is part of life and those left behind are more important than who have departed.
I do not disagree but trying to score political points over the deaths of people is bad taste. I would ask would the same point be made if the deaths were predominantly remainers
I score no political points except the ludicrous idea of thinking that we should be bound by a vote supposedly representing the "will of the people" over 3 years ago (as if it's Holy Writ) when many of them are no longer here - so don't care, and very many of them were never asked and very much do care.
What are the actual mechanics of calling a vote on an election? Is it amendable?
The wording of the motion is outlined in the act. I don't think it can be amended as the act says a motion of that wording is the only way to have an early election.
If high profile figures like Grieve, Hammond, Gayle, Clarke and Letwin did stand as independent Conservatives in their constituencies, I wonder how many votes they’d get.
Letwin is standing down.
Things change.
I’m not just being a pedant - the difference is real. MPs standing down will have wound down their public appearances, their association chairmen will be looking for replacements, there will be locals who have been supporting various applicants etc.
It’s a whole lot more difficult to turn that into an independent candidacy.
My guess is that a former cabinet minister standing against his own party would attract a great deal of attention.
So. If Corbyn refuses to have an election at Boris’s command, he will be accused of being frit.
Considering the government has constantly told us that the public does not want an election, its not exactly going to cost Jezza any votes.
Therefore, he has nothing to lose. He just needs to make Boris stew.
The Tory Party has 2 11% leads and 1 7% lead in the 3 latest polls since Cummings too over, in 1 of those polls Corbyn Labour was just 1% ahead of the LDs and in another just 3% ahead of the LDs.
If Corbyn backs further extension and continues to block Brexit while refusing to commit to back Remain in all circumstances Boris can just lie back and watch his lead grow as he continues to squeeze the Brexit Party vote while Corbyn risks seeing Labour fall to 3rd behind the LDs.
Except he won’t have delivered Brexit and won’t be able to govern.
Boris will have committed to deliver Brexit and if necessary will prorogue Parliament past October 31st to ensure it is delivered.
I really think you need some kind of help.
The people who need help are diehard Remainers defying the will of the people, this is war now
getting on for 1 million Leavers dead already and going at about 6,000 per week
Of all the arguments that is one that is more than unpleasant and demonstates political ambition is greater than peoples individual iives. It is just unnecessary
Demographics! I know people who voted Remain who are no longer with us as well. Sad to see anyone go but death is part of life and those left behind are more important than who have departed.
I do not disagree but trying to score political points over the deaths of people is bad taste. I would ask would the same point be made if the deaths were predominantly remainers
I would not take it personally. I agree it is not a very attractive way to fight an argument. I think it is just as important to reflect the fact that 1 million young voters will be on the electoral register as the number of those who are no longer with us
So. If Corbyn refuses to have an election at Boris’s command, he will be accused of being frit.
Considering the government has constantly told us that the public does not want an election, its not exactly going to cost Jezza any votes.
Therefore, he has nothing to lose. He just needs to make Boris stew.
The Tory Party has 2 11% leads and 1 7% lead in the 3 latest polls since Cummings too over, in 1 of those polls Corbyn Labour was just 1% ahead of the LDs and in another just 3% ahead of the LDs.
If Corbyn backs further extension and continues to block Brexit while refusing to commit to back Remain in all circumstances Boris can just lie back and watch his lead grow as he continues to squeeze the Brexit Party vote while Corbyn risks seeing Labour fall to 3rd behind the LDs.
Except he won’t have delivered Brexit and won’t be able to govern.
Boris will have committed to deliver Brexit and if necessary will prorogue Parliament past October 31st to ensure it is delivered.
I really think you need some kind of help.
The people who need help are diehard Remainers defying the will of the people, this is war now
getting on for 1 million Leavers dead already and going at about 6,000 per week
Of all the arguments that is one that is more than unpleasant and demonstates political ambition is greater than peoples individual iives. It is just unnecessary
The manner of the comment was a bit distasteful, but there is a serious point behind it. One might also note that all those teenagers who were outraged not to have a vote on their future, back in *2106*, would now get a say if there were a second referendum.
This miserable saga has been dragging on even longer than I thought!
So. If Corbyn refuses to have an election at Boris’s command, he will be accused of being frit.
Considering the government has constantly told us that the public does not want an election, its not exactly going to cost Jezza any votes.
Therefore, he has nothing to lose. He just needs to make Boris stew.
The Tory Party has 2 11% leads and 1 7% lead in the 3 latest polls since Cummings too over, in 1 of those polls Corbyn Labour was just 1% ahead of the LDs and in another just 3% ahead of the LDs.
If Corbyn backs further extension and continues to block Brexit while refusing to commit to back Remain in all circumstances Boris can just lie back and watch his lead grow as he continues to squeeze the Brexit Party vote while Corbyn risks seeing Labour fall to 3rd behind the LDs.
Except he won’t have delivered Brexit and won’t be able to govern.
Boris will have committed to deliver Brexit and if necessary will prorogue Parliament past October 31st to ensure it is delivered.
I really think you need some kind of help.
The people who need help are diehard Remainers defying the will of the people, this is war now
“War”.
Get a grip.
Have you seen some of the hysterical posts from remainers on here last couple of days?
There are a number of Tory MPs who are standing down at the next election and therefore couldn’t care less about deselection: Harrington, Clarke, Bebb, Letwin.
There are a number of Tory MPs who are standing down at the next election and therefore couldn’t care less about deselection: Harrington, Clarke, Bebb, Letwin.
Any I’ve missed?
Hope this helps
Conservative
David Tredinnick Bosworth Glyn Davies Montgomeryshire Guto Bebb Aberconwy Jeremy LeFroy Stafford Ken Clarke Rushcliffe Oliver Letwin West Dorset Richard Harrington Watford
Labour
Albert Owen Ynys Mon Geoffrey Robinson Coventry NW Gloria De Piero Ashfield Jim Fitzpatrick Popular and Limehouse Kate Hoey Vauxhall Keven Barron Rother Valley Roberta Blackman-Woods City of Durham Ronnie Campbell Blyth Valley Stephen Pound Ealing N Stephen Twigg Liverpool West Derby Theresa Pearce Erith and Thamesmead
So. If Corbyn refuses to have an election at Boris’s command, he will be accused of being frit.
Considering the government has constantly told us that the public does not want an election, its not exactly going to cost Jezza any votes.
Therefore, he has nothing to lose. He just needs to make Boris stew.
The Tory Party has 2 11% leads and 1 7% lead in the 3 latest polls since Cummings too over, in 1 of those polls Corbyn Labour was just 1% ahead of the LDs and in another just 3% ahead of the LDs.
If Corbyn backs further extension and continues to block Brexit while refusing to commit to back Remain in all circumstances Boris can just lie back and watch his lead grow as he continues to squeeze the Brexit Party vote while Corbyn risks seeing Labour fall to 3rd behind the LDs.
Except he won’t have delivered Brexit and won’t be able to govern.
Boris will have committed to deliver Brexit and if necessary will prorogue Parliament past October 31st to ensure it is delivered.
I really think you need some kind of help.
The people who need help are diehard Remainers defying the will of the people, this is war now
Ooh excellent. War. Have you signed up? As a diehard remainer you will be a great asset to the effort.
Both sides of the Brexit argument should be relieved we are finally arriving at a conclusion.
My hope is after we have left the country can come together and move forward leaving the angst of the last 3 years behind us.
What’s going to change? Leave with a deal years of arguing about the FTA leave without a deal decades of arguing about an FTA if you think 31/1019 ends anything you are going to be seriously disappointed.
If high profile figures like Grieve, Hammond, Gayle, Clarke and Letwin did stand as independent Conservatives in their constituencies, I wonder how many votes they’d get.
Letwin is standing down.
Things change.
I’m not just being a pedant - the difference is real. MPs standing down will have wound down their public appearances, their association chairmen will be looking for replacements, there will be locals who have been supporting various applicants etc.
It’s a whole lot more difficult to turn that into an independent candidacy.
My guess is that a former cabinet minister standing against his own party would attract a great deal of attention.
Johnson must be tearing Cumming's remaining hair out wondering what more he has to do to get the support of the 12 to 16% of electors who hitherto have declined to switch from the Brexit Party to the Conservatives? Might that get their attention?
If high profile figures like Grieve, Hammond, Gayle, Clarke and Letwin did stand as independent Conservatives in their constituencies, I wonder how many votes they’d get.
Letwin is standing down.
Things change.
I’m not just being a pedant - the difference is real. MPs standing down will have wound down their public appearances, their association chairmen will be looking for replacements, there will be locals who have been supporting various applicants etc.
It’s a whole lot more difficult to turn that into an independent candidacy.
My guess is that a former cabinet minister standing against his own party would attract a great deal of attention.
+1 Boris is employing Trump style politics from a two party system into a multi-party UK system. I dont think BJ is factoring the 65% plus against him and tactical voting. I can see Remain Tories being elected on a Remain Tory platform in Remain seats. I cannot see how BJ, the Tory party or Leave benefit from a masochist strategy!
So. If Corbyn refuses to have an election at Boris’s command, he will be accused of being frit.
Considering the government has constantly told us that the public does not want an election, its not exactly going to cost Jezza any votes.
Therefore, he has nothing to lose. He just needs to make Boris stew.
The Tory Party has 2 11% leads and 1 7% lead in the 3 latest polls since Cummings too over, in 1 of those polls Corbyn Labour was just 1% ahead of the LDs and in another just 3% ahead of the LDs.
If Corbyn backs further extension and continues to block Brexit while refusing to commit to back Remain in all circumstances Boris can just lie back and watch his lead grow as he continues to squeeze the Brexit Party vote while Corbyn risks seeing Labour fall to 3rd behind the LDs.
Except he won’t have delivered Brexit and won’t be able to govern.
Boris will have committed to deliver Brexit and if necessary will prorogue Parliament past October 31st to ensure it is delivered.
Boris and Cummings will deliver Brexit no matter what the cost
As we're on a war footing how do you see the best way of stopping this? You are after all vehemently against such idiocy. What's the plan?
So. If Corbyn refuses to have an election at Boris’s command, he will be accused of being frit.
Considering the government has constantly told us that the public does not want an election, its not exactly going to cost Jezza any votes.
Therefore, he has nothing to lose. He just needs to make Boris stew.
The Tory Party has 2 11% leads and 1 7% lead in the 3 latest polls since Cummings too over, in 1 of those polls Corbyn Labour was just 1% ahead of the LDs and in another just 3% ahead of the LDs.
If Corbyn backs further extension and continues to block Brexit while refusing to commit to back Remain in all circumstances Boris can just lie back and watch his lead grow as he continues to squeeze the Brexit Party vote while Corbyn risks seeing Labour fall to 3rd behind the LDs.
Except he won’t have delivered Brexit and won’t be able to govern.
Boris will have committed to deliver Brexit and if necessary will prorogue Parliament past October 31st to ensure it is delivered.
I really think you need some kind of help.
The people who need help are diehard Remainers defying the will of the people, this is war now
“War”.
Get a grip.
Have you seen some of the hysterical posts from remainers on here last couple of days?
Plenty of hyperbole from both sides.
I have been away for the weekend. If you can point to any Remainers describing the Brexit debate as a war I will happily give them the same advice.
Both sides of the Brexit argument should be relieved we are finally arriving at a conclusion.
My hope is after we have left the country can come together and move forward leaving the angst of the last 3 years behind us.
You do realise that with a no deal this will drag on for the next 10 years and beyond at a conservative estimate. I mean we'll still have to trade with the EU or did you plan to make up the shortfall with Tonga?
There are a number of Tory MPs who are standing down at the next election and therefore couldn’t care less about deselection: Harrington, Clarke, Bebb, Letwin.
Any I’ve missed?
Hope this helps
Conservative
David Tredinnick Bosworth Glyn Davies Montgomeryshire Guto Bebb Aberconwy Jeremy LeFroy Stafford Ken Clarke Rushcliffe Oliver Letwin West Dorset Richard Harrington Watford
Labour
Albert Owen Ynys Mon Geoffrey Robinson Coventry NW Gloria De Piero Ashfield Jim Fitzpatrick Popular and Limehouse Kate Hoey Vauxhall Keven Barron Rother Valley Roberta Blackman-Woods City of Durham Ronnie Campbell Blyth Valley Stephen Pound Ealing N Stephen Twigg Liverpool West Derby Theresa Pearce Erith and Thamesmead
Actually depending on the discount I’d be quite happy to sell the house I let to the tenants if it was 20% off market value I’d bite their hands off
Why wouldn't you just sell it on the open market?
Can't get rid of the tenants by the sounds of it
No they are good tenants and I would rather be free of the hassle of owning a property that I neither want or need. Given the cost and hassle I’d settle for 80% and hope the family renting it at present can make a good future knowing they aren’t going to be kicked out
If high profile figures like Grieve, Hammond, Gayle, Clarke and Letwin did stand as independent Conservatives in their constituencies, I wonder how many votes they’d get.
Letwin is standing down.
Things change.
I’m not just being a pedant - the difference is real. MPs standing down will have wound down their public appearances, their association chairmen will be looking for replacements, there will be locals who have been supporting various applicants etc.
It’s a whole lot more difficult to turn that into an independent candidacy.
My guess is that a former cabinet minister standing against his own party would attract a great deal of attention.
Johnson must be tearing Cumming's remaining hair out wondering what more he has to do to get the support of the 12 to 16% of electors who hitherto have declined to switch from the Brexit Party to the Conservatives? Might that get their attention?
A tranche of BXP voters are ex-Labour and unlikely to switch to the Tories whatever happens.
Actually depending on the discount I’d be quite happy to sell the house I let to the tenants if it was 20% off market value I’d bite their hands off
Why wouldn't you just sell it on the open market?
Can't get rid of the tenants by the sounds of it
No they are good tenants and I would rather be free of the hassle of owning a property that I neither want or need. Given the cost and hassle I’d settle for 80% and hope the family renting it at present can make a good future knowing they aren’t going to be kicked out
Have you asked them if they want to buy it off you?
Actually depending on the discount I’d be quite happy to sell the house I let to the tenants if it was 20% off market value I’d bite their hands off
Why wouldn't you just sell it on the open market?
Can't get rid of the tenants by the sounds of it
No they are good tenants and I would rather be free of the hassle of owning a property that I neither want or need. Given the cost and hassle I’d settle for 80% and hope the family renting it at present can make a good future knowing they aren’t going to be kicked out
Have you asked them if they want it? You don't have to wait for the government to tell you what to sell it for.
So. If Corbyn refuses to have an election at Boris’s command, he will be accused of being frit.
Considering the government has constantly told us that the public does not want an election, its not exactly going to cost Jezza any votes.
Therefore, he has nothing to lose. He just needs to make Boris stew.
The Tory Party has 2 11% leads and 1 7% lead in the 3 latest polls since Cummings too over, in 1 of those polls Corbyn Labour was just 1% ahead of the LDs and in another just 3% ahead of the LDs.
If Corbyn backs further extension and continues to block Brexit
Except he won’t have delivered Brexit and won’t be able to govern.
Boris will have committed to deliver Brexit and if necessary will prorogue Parliament past October 31st to ensure it is delivered.
I really think you need some kind of help.
The people who need help are diehard Remainers defying the will of the people, this is war now
getting on for 1 million Leavers dead already and going at about 6,000 per week
Of all the arguments that is one that is more than unpleasant and demonstates political ambition is greater than peoples individual iives. It is just unnecessary
Demographics! I know people who voted Remain who are no longer with us as well. Sad to see anyone go but death is part of life and those left behind are more important than who have departed.
I do not disagree but trying to score political points over the deaths of people is bad taste. I would ask would the same point be made if the deaths were predominantly remainers
I score no political points except the ludicrous idea of thinking that we should be bound by a vote supposedly representing the "will of the people" over 3 years ago (as if it's Holy Writ) when many of them are no longer here - so don't care, and very many of them were never asked and very much do care.
I accept there has been a demographic change and a referendum today could reverse the decision. However, what if it is the same margin reversed
For me any further referendum must have more than a simple majority to take effect
I do not support no deal and hope Boris to gets one
It's a shame the 'rump remainers' as they will be post leaving the EU will still not accept the result.
The Tories will be delighted of course, it will be manna from heaven at every future GE painting Labour/LD's as 5th Columnists working against their own country.
It's one thing battling against leaving the EU but quite another to be supporting the other side against your own country once you've left.
If high profile figures like Grieve, Hammond, Gayle, Clarke and Letwin did stand as independent Conservatives in their constituencies, I wonder how many votes they’d get.
Letwin is standing down.
Things change.
I’m not just being a pedant - the difference is real. MPs standing down will have wound down their public appearances, their association chairmen will be looking for replacements, there will be locals who have been supporting various applicants etc.
It’s a whole lot more difficult to turn that into an independent candidacy.
My guess is that a former cabinet minister standing against his own party would attract a great deal of attention.
+1 Boris is employing Trump style politics from a two party system into a multi-party UK system. I dont think BJ is factoring the 65% plus against him and tactical voting. I can see Remain Tories being elected on a Remain Tory platform in Remain seats. I cannot see how BJ, the Tory party or Leave benefit from a masochist strategy!
The alternative to that is that he unites 100% (or close enough, give or take a few BXP stragglers) of leavers behind him while splitting the remain vote in half. Metropolitan elites to the Lib Dems, while Labour piles up useless votes in safe seat territories (where they may face a greater challenge from BXP than Con target seatS).
Actually depending on the discount I’d be quite happy to sell the house I let to the tenants if it was 20% off market value I’d bite their hands off
Why wouldn't you just sell it on the open market?
Can't get rid of the tenants by the sounds of it
No they are good tenants and I would rather be free of the hassle of owning a property that I neither want or need. Given the cost and hassle I’d settle for 80% and hope the family renting it at present can make a good future knowing they aren’t going to be kicked out
Have you asked them if they want it? You don't have to wait for the government to tell you what to sell it for.
So. If Corbyn refuses to have an election at Boris’s command, he will be accused of being frit.
Considering the government has constantly told us that the public does not want an election, its not exactly going to cost Jezza any votes.
Therefore, he has nothing to lose. He just needs to make Boris stew.
The Tory Party has 2 11% leads and 1 7% lead in the 3 latest polls since Cummings too over, in 1 of those polls Corbyn Labour was just 1% ahead of the LDs and in another just 3% ahead of the LDs.
If Corbyn backs further extension and continues to block Brexit while refusing to commit to back Remain in all circumstances Boris can just lie back and watch his lead grow as he continues to squeeze the Brexit Party vote while Corbyn risks seeing Labour fall to 3rd behind the LDs.
Except he won’t have delivered Brexit and won’t be able to govern.
Boris will have committed to deliver Brexit and if necessary will prorogue Parliament past October 31st to ensure it is delivered.
I really think you need some kind of help.
The people who need help are diehard Remainers defying the will of the people, this is war now
getting on for 1 million Leavers dead already and going at about 6,000 per week
Of all the arguments that is one that is more than unpleasant and demonstates political ambition is greater than peoples individual iives. It is just unnecessary
Demographics! I know people who voted Remain who are no longer with us as well. Sad to see anyone go but death is part of life and those left behind are more important than who have departed.
I do not disagree but trying to score political points over the deaths of people is bad taste. I would ask would the same point be made if the deaths were predominantly remainers
I would not take it personally. I agree it is not a very attractive way to fight an argument. I think it is just as important to reflect the fact that 1 million young voters will be on the electoral register as the number of those who are no longer with us
It is a fair point. However, we all need to respect life - it is so precious
It's a shame the 'rump remainers' as they will be post leaving the EU will still not accept the result.
The Tories will be delighted of course, it will be manna from heaven at every future GE painting Labour/LD's as 5th Columnists working against their own country.
It's one thing battling against leaving the EU but quite another to be supporting the other side against your own country once you've left.
I think you're over dramatising it.
There will be nothing wrong with wanting a closer relationship with the EU after we have left.
Just when you think things couldn't get worse, old Marxism McDonnell comes along to remind us that he thinks property is theft.
I wonder what Corbyn Jnr will think about his little nest egg going down in value?
And this stuff is just for starters.
This is what the takeover of the conservative party by Bluekip will lead to for the country. Tory and Labour MPs should be ashamed of themselves for what they have done to their parties.
It's a shame the 'rump remainers' as they will be post leaving the EU will still not accept the result.
The Tories will be delighted of course, it will be manna from heaven at every future GE painting Labour/LD's as 5th Columnists working against their own country.
It's one thing battling against leaving the EU but quite another to be supporting the other side against your own country once you've left.
What you on about? I’ve been an EU citizen for all but 2 years of my life.
Cummings whole strategy depends on Corbyn agreeing to an election basically?
I think there are three main sides to this latest manoeuvre:
1) The stated one: try and get the rebels to back down, even though that's unlikely to work
2) Avoid the same rebels sitting in the next parliament, as then he would need a bigger majority to implement no deal
3) Give him an excuse to call for a general election once his majority is lost on the promise of it taking place before 31 October
If I was Corbyn I would refuse to be bounced into an election if Johnson calls for one before an extension is agreed. Johnson would be weaker if the election is after 31 October with an extension than if it is before. Forcing him to abandon his "do or die" pledge will help the Brexit party over the Conservatives.
So. If Corbyn refuses to have an election at Boris’s command, he will be accused of being frit.
Considering the government has constantly told us that the public does not want an election, its not exactly going to cost Jezza any votes.
Therefore, he has nothing to lose. He just needs to make Boris stew.
The Tory Party has 2 11% leads and 1 7% lead in the 3 latest polls since Cummings too over, in 1 of those polls Corbyn Labour was just 1% ahead of the LDs and in another just 3% ahead of the LDs.
If Corbyn backs further extension and continues to block Brexit
Except he won’t have delivered Brexit and won’t be able to govern.
Boris will have committed to deliver Brexit and if necessary will prorogue Parliament past October 31st to ensure it is delivered.
I really think you need some kind of help.
The people who need help are diehard Remainers defying the will of the people, this is war now
getting on for 1 million Leavers dead already and going at about 6,000 per week
Of all the arguments that is one that is more than unpleasant and demonstates political ambition is greater than peoples individual iives. It is just unnecessary
Demographics! I know people who voted Remain who are no longer with us as well. Sad to see anyone go but death is part of life and those left behind are more important than who have departed.
I do not disagree but trying to score political points over the deaths of people is bad taste. I would ask would the same point be made if the deaths were predominantly remainers
I score no political points except the ludicrous idea of thinking that we should be bound by a vote supposedly representing the "will of the people" over 3 years ago (as if it's Holy Writ) when many of them are no longer here - so don't care, and very many of them were never asked and very much do care.
I accept there has been a demographic change and a referendum today could reverse the decision. However, what if it is the same margin reversed
For me any further referendum must have more than a simple majority to take effect
I do not support no deal and hope Boris to gets one
I dont think introducing different restrictions on a second referendum is quite fair.
Cummings whole strategy depends on Corbyn agreeing to an election basically?
I think there are three main sides to this latest manoeuvre:
1) The stated one: try and get the rebels to back down, even though that's unlikely to work
2) Avoid the same rebels sitting in the next parliament, as then he would need a bigger majority to implement no deal
3) Give him an excuse to call for a general election once his majority is lost on the promise of it taking place before 31 October
If I was Corbyn I would refuse to be bounced into an election if Johnson calls for one before an extension is agreed. Johnson would be weaker if the election is after 31 October with an extension than if it is before. Forcing him to abandon his "do or die" pledge will help the Brexit party over the Conservatives.
I still think the best tactic for Remainers is to do nothing. Wait for the clock to 31st October to run down. BoZo does not actually want No Adela and by mid-Oct the impending chaos will force him to extend
Comments
Whips think 20 or so rebels won’t get legislation over the line.
Threat of deselection is for the remaining 80 or so who don’t want to leave without
a deal but won’t sacrifice their careers to prevent it.
https://www.theguardian.com/politics/2019/sep/01/government-to-scrap-plans-for-henry-viii-power-to-end-free-movement
I pointed out the other day the number of bills (which had been slow-timed by May) that proroguing Parliament caused to fall completely.
This is government by panic.
Are you still a member by the way?
If so...why?
The answer is simple - Mr Burt is not "pure" enough. The true believers want total isolation from Europe, not a deal. Anything less is treachery.
Douglas Adams was right "... anyone capable of getting elected should, on no account, be allowed to do the job"
HYUFD’s “Falling Down” moment is the best form of weathervane.
Get a grip.
My membership is retained unless we leave with no deal.
I’d rather just avoid a No Deal, thanks.
And its not the roe deer he has in his sights...
Well that’s a happy precedent for Boris! You might want to look up what happened to the Major government and the Tory party after it ended.
The actual prerogative power itself is effectively a rubber stamp, so beside the question.
Leavers have been telling us that the EU is about to blink for over 3 years now
Surely better to let Johnson fail to renegotiate a Deal and then have him in a position where he has to ask for an extension or leave with no Deal.
I hope you remain a member for many years to come.
Unlike HYUFD, who is a slavish party loyalist, he is interested only in getting a hard Brexit over the line,
Any I’ve missed?
Can I just repeat that cracker again. 'No matter what the cost'
This is what we are dealing with here.
Luckily it is such an insane worldview, this vision that Johnson and his merry band of loons are channelling, that they are doing a fantastic job of uniting former foes across a wide swathe of the political spectrum, from moderate Tories and Lib Dems to Blairites and Greens and Corbynistas, who have given up squabbling and are gawping as one in sheer horror at this completely un-British spectacle being visited upon us. If this was Cummings' magical gameplan, then, well done him.
In which case would any anti No Deal legislation, even if simple ignored by HMG (a government possibly being held in suspended animation by the FTPA) be relevant to the legality of the Exit and be challengeable up to and Including the ECJ?
Depends, I suppose, on the extent to which A50 demands constitutionality, and the extent to which any anti No Deal laws affect constitutionality rather than just legality.
A No Deal Brexit suspended by the ECJ after a few weeks of creeping chaos, that suspension possibly met with a substantial majority hallelujah, would be a fun backdrop against which Boris could fight the eventual GE. One can but dream
Edit: And the tweet has been deleted.
It’s a whole lot more difficult to turn that into an independent candidacy.
I’ve always been something of a constitutional innovator.
https://www.dailymail.co.uk/news/article-7417191/John-McDonnell-declare-war-buy-let-landlords-giving-tenants-chance-buy-property.html
Lib Dems - this is your chance
https://twitter.com/johnredwood/status/1168118093698228224?s=21
Plenty of hyperbole from both sides.
They will soon, rightly, no longer be Conservative MPs.
My hope is after we have left the country can come together and move forward leaving the angst of the last 3 years behind us.
(sorry, couldn't resist it...
Hope this helps
Conservative
David Tredinnick Bosworth
Glyn Davies Montgomeryshire
Guto Bebb Aberconwy
Jeremy LeFroy Stafford
Ken Clarke Rushcliffe
Oliver Letwin West Dorset
Richard Harrington Watford
Labour
Albert Owen Ynys Mon
Geoffrey Robinson Coventry NW
Gloria De Piero Ashfield
Jim Fitzpatrick Popular and Limehouse
Kate Hoey Vauxhall
Keven Barron Rother Valley
Roberta Blackman-Woods City of Durham
Ronnie Campbell Blyth Valley
Stephen Pound Ealing N
Stephen Twigg Liverpool West Derby
Theresa Pearce Erith and Thamesmead
Lib Dems
Norman Lamb North Nortfolk
Vince Cable Twickenham
Independent
Nick Boles Grantham
When do you foresee the first skirmish?
Boris is employing Trump style politics from a two party system into a multi-party UK system. I dont think BJ is factoring the 65% plus against him and tactical voting. I can see Remain Tories being elected on a Remain Tory platform in Remain seats. I cannot see how BJ, the Tory party or Leave benefit from a masochist strategy!
For me any further referendum must have more than a simple majority to take effect
I do not support no deal and hope Boris to gets one
I wonder what Corbyn Jnr will think about his little nest egg going down in value?
And this stuff is just for starters.
The Tories will be delighted of course, it will be manna from heaven at every future GE painting Labour/LD's as 5th Columnists working against their own country.
It's one thing battling against leaving the EU but quite another to be supporting the other side against your own country once you've left.
There will be nothing wrong with wanting a closer relationship with the EU after we have left.
1) The stated one: try and get the rebels to back down, even though that's unlikely to work
2) Avoid the same rebels sitting in the next parliament, as then he would need a bigger majority to implement no deal
3) Give him an excuse to call for a general election once his majority is lost on the promise of it taking place before 31 October
If I was Corbyn I would refuse to be bounced into an election if Johnson calls for one before an extension is agreed. Johnson would be weaker if the election is after 31 October with an extension than if it is before. Forcing him to abandon his "do or die" pledge will help the Brexit party over the Conservatives.