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  • MarqueeMarkMarqueeMark Posts: 52,616
    Nigelb said:

    Indeed but it will be ignored by your fellow Brexiteers who prioritise Brexit over the Union.

    Sad.
    Probably, yes. Very depressing.
    Cheer up, you’re getting what you’ve always wanted, the UK leaving the EU.
    No, I don't put sacrificing everything else as worth it just for that.

    It's why I favoured May's Deal.
    Considering May's awful deal and the backstop was a betrayal of Take Back Control and everything we debated during the referendum I'm confused by its popularity here.
    Prorouging Parliament is a far worse betrayal of Take Back Control
    If Parliament was prorogued from 4 September to 1 November maybe. That's not happening though is it?

    Proroguation is happening over 4 sitting days as a long overdue Queens Speech finally happens.

    If it wanted to Parliament could vote to revoke. It's had 3.5 years so far the hysteria over 4 sitting days for an overdue State Opening is pathetic.
    Stop lying. Its not 4 days, its 6 weeks.
    Justify extending the current Parliament. It is already the longest for nearly 400 years.

    You can't.
    We are due to leave the EU without a deal very shortly.
    Any deal - and your PM promises he will return with one - will have to be debated in, and approved by, Parliament.
    Proroguing Parliament in this manner reduces its function to that of a rubber stamp.
    If there is to be any further deal, it will not be delivered by the EU before their mid-October summit. Therefore no time has been lost to debate that specific deal - if it materialises.

    All that has been lost is mischief time for the Remainers. Boo hoo.
  • Casino_RoyaleCasino_Royale Posts: 60,491

    Indeed but it will be ignored by your fellow Brexiteers who prioritise Brexit over the Union.

    Sad.
    Probably, yes. Very depressing.
    Cheer up, you’re getting what you’ve always wanted, the UK leaving the EU.
    No, I don't put sacrificing everything else as worth it just for that.

    It's why I favoured May's Deal.

    I owe you an apology CR - you are a far bigger man than I ever gave you credit for. I can see how many of my posts directed at you would have been infuriating. For that I am sorry.

    Please don't apologise. I've been a massive tool to many people on here over the last three years over this issue, for which I've had to regularly apologise for myself.

    No hard feelings.
  • NigelbNigelb Posts: 71,238

    Nigelb said:

    Indeed but it will be ignored by your fellow Brexiteers who prioritise Brexit over the Union.

    Sad.
    Probably, yes. Very depressing.
    Cheer up, you’re getting what you’ve always wanted, the UK leaving the EU.
    No, I don't put sacrificing everything else as worth it just for that.

    It's why I favoured May's Deal.
    Considering May's awful deal and the backstop was a betrayal of Take Back Control and everything we debated during the referendum I'm confused by its popularity here.
    Prorouging Parliament is a far worse betrayal of Take Back Control
    If Parliament was prorogued from 4 September to 1 November maybe. That's not happening though is it?

    Proroguation is happening over 4 sitting days as a long overdue Queens Speech finally happens.

    If it wanted to Parliament could vote to revoke. It's had 3.5 years so far the hysteria over 4 sitting days for an overdue State Opening is pathetic.
    Stop lying. Its not 4 days, its 6 weeks.
    Justify extending the current Parliament. It is already the longest for nearly 400 years.

    You can't.
    We are due to leave the EU without a deal very shortly.
    Any deal - and your PM promises he will return with one - will have to be debated in, and approved by, Parliament.
    Proroguing Parliament in this manner reduces its function to that of a rubber stamp.
    If there is to be any further deal, it will not be delivered by the EU before their mid-October summit. Therefore no time has been lost to debate that specific deal - if it materialises.

    All that has been lost is mischief time for the Remainers. Boo hoo.
    The voice of a democrat.
  • GallowgateGallowgate Posts: 19,468
    I am a Lib Dem supporter who would accept an EEA/EFTA Brexit.
  • I'm appalled by Ruth Davidson's remarks. "referenda"? Ye Gods. It is always referendums.

    What I worked at BBC News in the late 70s we had two referendums going on in Scotland and Wales and the dictat came from high - the plural was referenda. At the time I was Duty Editor for Radios 1 and 2 news and felt almost embarrassed by this for our audiences. We used to get into all sorts of verbal contortions to avoid "referendums" but we never used the form referenda
    On a similar note, Dear the United Kingdom, it’s coup d’État, with a capital E with an accent aigu, please.

    #PedantryCorner
  • ab195ab195 Posts: 477

    I'm appalled by Ruth Davidson's remarks. "referenda"? Ye Gods. It is always referendums.

    What I worked at BBC News in the late 70s we had two referendums going on in Scotland and Wales and the dictat came from high - the plural was referenda. At the time I was Duty Editor for Radios 1 and 2 news and felt almost embarrassed by this for our audiences. We used to get into all sorts of verbal contortions to avoid "referendums" but we never used the form referenda
    On a similar note, Dear the United Kingdom, it’s coup d’État, with a capital E with an accent aigu, please.

    #PedantryCorner
    Nah. We’ve taken back control.
  • AlistairAlistair Posts: 23,670
    HYUFD said:

    malcolmg said:

    Oh Dear, Murdo who has been defeated 7 times trying to get elected , yet supped at the public teat each time by getting a losers list seat. A perfect leader for the Scottish pretend Tory party. Contribution for his almost £1M lottery win , some dire tweets about WATP
    Whoosh!

    The point being that the "Tories" "glory days" in Scotland were as the "Unionist" Party and not as the "Conservative" Party - which was seen as too "English". If they could get back to polling in the high thirties percentage of the vote it might be no bad thing. Where else are Unionist voters to go?
    I suspect the LDs will pick up some Unionist Remainers who voted Tory in 2017 but the Tories will keep most of their Leave voters in Scotland.


    In fact I think Slab could come 4th at the next general election in Scotland, the Shetland by election tonight might be an indicator
    Shetland by election will indicate fuck all. Even if the SNP won all it will show is that the SNP threw a lot of people at it.
  • Philip_ThompsonPhilip_Thompson Posts: 65,826
    edited August 2019
    Nigelb said:

    6 weeks? No it is 4 scheduled sitting days.

    I think you may be getting confused with the summer holidays MPs considered to be more important than sorting out Brexit first. Those were 6 weeks, obviously Brexit is less important to them than disrupting their holidays.

    For someone so attached to 'democracy' that you're ready to ignore the opinions of two thirds of the NI electorate, you seem remarkably ready to adopt the threadbare spinning of the government over their shuttering of Parliament.

    An unkinder soul than I might accuse you of hypocrisy.
    Parliament isn't being shuttered. Its literally sitting next week long enough to enact a change of government if that's what MPs want!

    MPs in Parliament literally voted themselves a 6 week holiday recently. Remember recesses are voted for, now given the time constraints I might have thought MPs might consider it more important to resolve Brexit BEFORE going on a six week holiday but apparently they knew better. That would have given the public some security in knowing what was going on, but why bother to make a decision?

    Parliament has had 3.5 years since the referendum. Its had six months nearly since Brexit was extended. Its had six weeks now they chose to be on holiday rather than bother to sort this out. Forgive me for not giving a damn about crocodile tears over 4 frigging days.

    MPs need to stop dicking about and make an actual decision. They need to stop saying what they don't want and decide what they do want. If they do that then the very long overdue State Opening of Parliament and associated 4-sitting-day proroguation won't change a thing.
  • AlistairAlistair Posts: 23,670

    Anyone got any tips for next SCON leader?

    I'm not seeing any betting markets yet

    Ladbrokes
  • TheuniondivvieTheuniondivvie Posts: 42,004
    edited August 2019

    Anyone got any tips for next SCON leader?

    I'm not seeing any betting markets yet

    Shadsy has some prices?

    https://twitter.com/LadPolitics/status/1167015063384940544?s=20

    Murdo Fraser is 2/1 favourite on the buggins' turn principle. Tomkins might be worth a punt on the basis that he has an ill deserved rep for providing some intellectual heft to the SCon benches, not a high bar to clear.

    Annie Wells: hahahahahaha.
  • MarqueeMarkMarqueeMark Posts: 52,616
    Nigelb said:

    Nigelb said:

    Indeed but it will be ignored by your fellow Brexiteers who prioritise Brexit over the Union.

    Sad.
    Probably, yes. Very depressing.
    Cheer up, you’re getting what you’ve always wanted, the UK leaving the EU.
    No, I don't put sacrificing everything else as worth it just for that.

    It's why I favoured May's Deal.
    Considering May's awful deal and the backstop was a betrayal of Take Back Control and everything we debated during the referendum I'm confused by its popularity here.
    Prorouging Parliament is a far worse betrayal of Take Back Control
    If Parliament was prorogued from 4 September to 1 November maybe. That's not happening though is it?

    Proroguation is happening over 4 sitting days as a long overdue Queens Speech finally happens.

    If it wanted to Parliament could vote to revoke. It's had 3.5 years so far the hysteria over 4 sitting days for an overdue State Opening is pathetic.
    Stop lying. Its not 4 days, its 6 weeks.
    Justify extending the current Parliament. It is already the longest for nearly 400 years.

    You can't.
    We are due to leave the EU without a deal very shortly.
    Any deal - and your PM promises he will return with one - will have to be debated in, and approved by, Parliament.
    Proroguing Parliament in this manner reduces its function to that of a rubber stamp.
    If there is to be any further deal, it will not be delivered by the EU before their mid-October summit. Therefore no time has been lost to debate that specific deal - if it materialises.

    All that has been lost is mischief time for the Remainers. Boo hoo.
    The voice of a democrat.
    Yep. I want to implmemt the Referendum. You? Not so much a democrat.....
  • kamskikamski Posts: 5,193
    HYUFD said:

    If no deal is The Will Of The People, no one seems to have told The People:

    https://twitter.com/drjennings/status/1167013357620215809

    @HYUFD will conveniently ignore this as it does not suit his agenda.
    29% for May's Deal as a reasonable compromise is actually higher than soft Brexit on that poll, Remain is almost as divisive as No Deal is
    You are turning into a parody of yourself. You do realise other people can read the chart for themselves?
    54% is higher than 44%.
    49% is not "almost" the same as 41%.
    And the chart shows figures for "acceptable compromise" not "reasonable compromise".

    If you're going to lie about everything, probably best not to lie so obviously.
  • GallowgateGallowgate Posts: 19,468
    edited August 2019

    Nigelb said:

    6 weeks? No it is 4 scheduled sitting days.

    I think you may be getting confused with the summer holidays MPs considered to be more important than sorting out Brexit first. Those were 6 weeks, obviously Brexit is less important to them than disrupting their holidays.

    For someone so attached to 'democracy' that you're ready to ignore the opinions of two thirds of the NI electorate, you seem remarkably ready to adopt the threadbare spinning of the government over their shuttering of Parliament.

    An unkinder soul than I might accuse you of hypocrisy.
    Parliament isn't being shuttered. Its literally sitting next week long enough to enact a change of government if that's what MPs want!

    MPs in Parliament literally voted themselves a 6 week holiday recently. Remember recesses are voted for, now given the time constraints I might have thought MPs might consider it more important to resolve Brexit BEFORE going on a six week holiday but apparently they knew better. That would have given the public some security in knowing what was going on, but why bother to make a decision?

    Parliament has had 3.5 years since the referendum. Its had six months nearly since Brexit was extended. Its had six weeks now they chose to be on holiday rather than bother to sort this out. Forgive me for not giving a damn about crocodile tears over 4 frigging days.

    MPs need to stop dicking about and make an actual decision. They need to stop saying what they don't want and decide what they do want. If they do that then the very long overdue State Opening of Parliament and associated 4-sitting-day proroguation won't change a thing.
    More misleading statements. The enemy of democracy is misinformation. You should be ashamed of yourself.
  • eristdooferistdoof Posts: 5,065


    #PedantryCorner

    #PedantryCorner is pronounced "Hash Pedantry Corner" it is a Hashtag.
  • NigelbNigelb Posts: 71,238

    I am a Lib Dem supporter who would accept an EEA/EFTA Brexit.

    It's fairly obvious that such a thing would have passed though the Commons pretty rapidly had it ever been on offer from the government.

    Naturally it would have split the Tory party, but arguably in a better way than is currently happening.
  • Dura_AceDura_Ace Posts: 13,677

    Anyone got any tips for next SCON leader?

    Dee dee from Limmy's Show.
  • dixiedeandixiedean Posts: 29,414
    Is this true that the decision to prorogue was taken by Johnson, Gove and Cox alone and without consultation with other Ministers? Just mentioned on WATO.
  • viewcodeviewcode Posts: 22,131

    I'm appalled by Ruth Davidson's remarks. "referenda"? Ye Gods. It is always referendums.

    What I worked at BBC News in the late 70s we had two referendums going on in Scotland and Wales and the dictat came from high - the plural was referenda. At the time I was Duty Editor for Radios 1 and 2 news and felt almost embarrassed by this for our audiences. We used to get into all sorts of verbal contortions to avoid "referendums" but we never used the form referenda
    Stadia is the plural of stadium, media is the plural of medium, quanta is the plural of quantum. Referenda is the plural of referendum. I am trying desperately not to use the word "labia" here... :)
  • Scott_PScott_P Posts: 51,453
    https://twitter.com/faisalislam/status/1167045916517392384

    It would be spectacularly ironic, not to mention hilarious, if the prorogue were to be deemed illegal because they did it at Balmoral instead of Windsor...
  • Indeed but it will be ignored by your fellow Brexiteers who prioritise Brexit over the Union.

    Sad.
    Probably, yes. Very depressing.
    Cheer up, you’re getting what you’ve always wanted, the UK leaving the EU.
    No, I don't put sacrificing everything else as worth it just for that.

    It's why I favoured May's Deal.

    I owe you an apology CR - you are a far bigger man than I ever gave you credit for. I can see how many of my posts directed at you would have been infuriating. For that I am sorry.

    Please don't apologise. I've been a massive tool to many people on here over the last three years over this issue, for which I've had to regularly apologise for myself.

    No hard feelings.

    Good on you! And absolutely!!

  • More misleading statements. The enemy of democracy is misinformation. You should be ashamed of yourself.

    Not one thing I said was misleading.

    Its sitting next week - FACT.
    They could change government next week if that's what MPs want - FACT.
    MPs in Parliament literally voted themselves a 6 week holiday recently. FACT

    Remember recesses are voted for, now given the time constraints I might have thought MPs might consider it more important to resolve Brexit BEFORE going on a six week holiday but apparently they knew better. That would have given the public some security in knowing what was going on, but why bother to make a decision? - My opinion but I think its reasonable.

    Parliament has had 3.5 years since the referendum. Its had six months nearly since Brexit was extended. Its had six weeks now they chose to be on holiday rather than bother to sort this out. Forgive me for not giving a damn about crocodile tears over 4 frigging days. - FACT, FACT, FACT, my opinion.

    MPs need to stop dicking about and make an actual decision. They need to stop saying what they don't want and decide what they do want. - My opinion but I think its reasonable.

    If they do that then the very long overdue State Opening of Parliament and associated 4-sitting-day proroguation won't change a thing. - FACT.
  • viewcodeviewcode Posts: 22,131
    dixiedean said:

    Is this true that the decision to prorogue was taken by Johnson, Gove and Cox alone and without consultation with other Ministers? Just mentioned on WATO.

    Yup. As I pointed out, you can do a lot with 3 PCs and a famous example is the authorisation of the Falklands TaskForce (Thatcher, Tebbit, Nott). It worries me that I know this and MPs don't.
  • I'm appalled by Ruth Davidson's remarks. "referenda"? Ye Gods. It is always referendums.

    What I worked at BBC News in the late 70s we had two referendums going on in Scotland and Wales and the dictat came from high - the plural was referenda. At the time I was Duty Editor for Radios 1 and 2 news and felt almost embarrassed by this for our audiences. We used to get into all sorts of verbal contortions to avoid "referendums" but we never used the form referenda
    On a similar note, Dear the United Kingdom, it’s coup d’État, with a capital E with an accent aigu, please.

    #PedantryCorner
    I thought accents over capital letters were entirely optional in written French?
  • eekeek Posts: 28,406
    Scott_P said:

    https://twitter.com/faisalislam/status/1167045916517392384

    It would be spectacularly ironic, not to mention hilarious, if the prorogue were to be deemed illegal because they did it at Balmoral instead of Windsor...

    Given that ever part of the the Brexit farce has had additional farce added to it - I would bet my house* on the prorogation being found to be unlawful

    * This is not betting advice, but you can just see how it's going to play out.
  • eristdooferistdoof Posts: 5,065


    MPs need to stop dicking about and make an actual decision.

    This is like saying "Liverpool needs to stop dicking about and actually win their Premiership match against Burnley". Regardless of the fact that the match is not until Saturday.
  • NigelbNigelb Posts: 71,238

    Nigelb said:

    6 weeks? No it is 4 scheduled sitting days.

    I think you may be getting confused with the summer holidays MPs considered to be more important than sorting out Brexit first. Those were 6 weeks, obviously Brexit is less important to them than disrupting their holidays.

    For someone so attached to 'democracy' that you're ready to ignore the opinions of two thirds of the NI electorate, you seem remarkably ready to adopt the threadbare spinning of the government over their shuttering of Parliament.

    An unkinder soul than I might accuse you of hypocrisy.
    Parliament isn't being shuttered. Its literally sitting next week long enough to enact a change of government if that's what MPs want!

    MPs in Parliament literally voted themselves a 6 week holiday recently. Remember recesses are voted for, now given the time constraints I might have thought MPs might consider it more important to resolve Brexit BEFORE going on a six week holiday but apparently they knew better. That would have given the public some security in knowing what was going on, but why bother to make a decision?

    Parliament has had 3.5 years since the referendum. Its had six months nearly since Brexit was extended. Its had six weeks now they chose to be on holiday rather than bother to sort this out. Forgive me for not giving a damn about crocodile tears over 4 frigging days.

    MPs need to stop dicking about and make an actual decision. They need to stop saying what they don't want and decide what they do want. If they do that then the very long overdue State Opening of Parliament and associated 4-sitting-day proroguation won't change a thing.
    So why prorogue Parliament for an unprecedented in recent decades five weeks ?
  • I'm appalled by Ruth Davidson's remarks. "referenda"? Ye Gods. It is always referendums.

    What I worked at BBC News in the late 70s we had two referendums going on in Scotland and Wales and the dictat came from high - the plural was referenda. At the time I was Duty Editor for Radios 1 and 2 news and felt almost embarrassed by this for our audiences. We used to get into all sorts of verbal contortions to avoid "referendums" but we never used the form referenda
    On a similar note, Dear the United Kingdom, it’s coup d’État, with a capital E with an accent aigu, please.

    #PedantryCorner
    I thought accents over capital letters were entirely optional in written French?
    Not according to my French teacher.
  • firstlight40firstlight40 Posts: 69
    edited August 2019
    ab195 said:

    ab195 said:

    Let’s suppose the rebels and opposition unite and pass a simple Act. What will it say?
    ....

    If I were drafting it, it would say:

    1. The Chair of the Brexit Select Committee is appointed the UK's High Representative for Article 50, authorised by parliament to negotiate an extension of between X and Y months with the EU.

    2. In the event that agreement with the EU cannot be reached by the 15th October, the UK's High Representative for Article 50 is authorised and instructed by parliament to revoke the UK's notice Article 50, unless parliament votes otherwise.
    Interesting, and I see where you’re going with that as it is reasonably simple and “agreeable”. But it’s still open to the PM to say “if you agree his extension I’ll be very cross and will do undesirable thing X”, and the Committee Chair can’t really offer much about what will happen in the 6 months. Though I suppose we can assume an immediate election. I’d also want some pretty detailed legal advice on whether a person appointed by Parliament can be given that power (i.e. is it Parliament’s to give).
    But Boris as PM is on the EU council, can't be replaced at this forum while he remains PM and can actually veto the extension request even if it were deemed that parliament's lord high poo-Bah had any standing
  • viewcodeviewcode Posts: 22,131
    eristdoof said:


    #PedantryCorner

    #PedantryCorner is pronounced "Hash Pedantry Corner" it is a Hashtag.
    It's "Hashtag (pause) Pedantry Corner", and you have to do the airquotes thing while you're doing it, otherwise the spell is not well-formed and collapses.
  • dixiedeandixiedean Posts: 29,414
    viewcode said:

    dixiedean said:

    Is this true that the decision to prorogue was taken by Johnson, Gove and Cox alone and without consultation with other Ministers? Just mentioned on WATO.

    Yup. As I pointed out, you can do a lot with 3 PCs and a famous example is the authorisation of the Falklands TaskForce (Thatcher, Tebbit, Nott). It worries me that I know this and MPs don't.
    Does explain the relative absence of Cabinet Ministers out to defend it.
  • GallowgateGallowgate Posts: 19,468

    More misleading statements. The enemy of democracy is misinformation. You should be ashamed of yourself.

    Not one thing I said was misleading.

    Its sitting next week - FACT.
    They could change government next week if that's what MPs want - FACT.
    MPs in Parliament literally voted themselves a 6 week holiday recently. FACT

    Remember recesses are voted for, now given the time constraints I might have thought MPs might consider it more important to resolve Brexit BEFORE going on a six week holiday but apparently they knew better. That would have given the public some security in knowing what was going on, but why bother to make a decision? - My opinion but I think its reasonable.

    Parliament has had 3.5 years since the referendum. Its had six months nearly since Brexit was extended. Its had six weeks now they chose to be on holiday rather than bother to sort this out. Forgive me for not giving a damn about crocodile tears over 4 frigging days. - FACT, FACT, FACT, my opinion.

    MPs need to stop dicking about and make an actual decision. They need to stop saying what they don't want and decide what they do want. - My opinion but I think its reasonable.

    If they do that then the very long overdue State Opening of Parliament and associated 4-sitting-day proroguation won't change a thing. - FACT.
    The conference recess has not been voted on yet mate.

    Stop posting this drivel.
  • eristdooferistdoof Posts: 5,065
    viewcode said:

    I'm appalled by Ruth Davidson's remarks. "referenda"? Ye Gods. It is always referendums.

    What I worked at BBC News in the late 70s we had two referendums going on in Scotland and Wales and the dictat came from high - the plural was referenda. At the time I was Duty Editor for Radios 1 and 2 news and felt almost embarrassed by this for our audiences. We used to get into all sorts of verbal contortions to avoid "referendums" but we never used the form referenda
    Stadia is the plural of stadium, media is the plural of medium, quanta is the plural of quantum. Referenda is the plural of referendum. I am trying desperately not to use the word "labia" here... :)
    Visa is the plural of Visum
  • AlastairMeeksAlastairMeeks Posts: 30,340
    eek said:

    Scott_P said:

    https://twitter.com/faisalislam/status/1167045916517392384

    It would be spectacularly ironic, not to mention hilarious, if the prorogue were to be deemed illegal because they did it at Balmoral instead of Windsor...

    Given that ever part of the the Brexit farce has had additional farce added to it - I would bet my house* on the prorogation being found to be unlawful

    * This is not betting advice, but you can just see how it's going to play out.
    Can you imagine the volcanic eruption from Number 10 if that happened? The ash would disrupt flights across the Atlantic for weeks.

    The front page of the Express would be something to behold the next day as well.
  • StreeterStreeter Posts: 684
    I see @HYUFD is multitasking.

    https://twitter.com/HYUFD1/status/1167046174508892160?s=20

    The answer of course is 'I will when the UK Government proposes a credible one'.
  • philiphphiliph Posts: 4,704
    Speaking of the odd coup d'état, we could end up with Johnson vs Bercow:

    https://www.msn.com/en-gb/news/brexit/john-bercow-is-itching-to-stop-brexit-–-and-there-isnt-much-the-government-can-do-to-get-in-his-way/ar-AAGsnjO?ocid=spartanntp
  • ab195ab195 Posts: 477

    ab195 said:

    ab195 said:

    Let’s suppose the rebels and opposition unite and pass a simple Act. What will it say?
    ....

    If I were drafting it, it would say:

    1. The Chair of the Brexit Select Committee is appointed the UK's High Representative for Article 50, authorised by parliament to negotiate an extension of between X and Y months with the EU.

    2. In the event that agreement with the EU cannot be reached by the 15th October, the UK's High Representative for Article 50 is authorised and instructed by parliament to revoke the UK's notice Article 50, unless parliament votes otherwise.
    Interesting, and I see where you’re going with that as it is reasonably simple and “agreeable”. But it’s still open to the PM to say “if you agree his extension I’ll be very cross and will do undesirable thing X”, and the Committee Chair can’t really offer much about what will happen in the 6 months. Though I suppose we can assume an immediate election. I’d also want some pretty detailed legal advice on whether a person appointed by Parliament can be given that power (i.e. is it Parliament’s to give).
    But Boris as PM is on the EU council, can't be replaced and can actually veto the extension request even if it were deemed that parliament's lord high poo-Bah had any standing
    That one at least is covered. For these purposes we’re not on the Council.
  • viewcodeviewcode Posts: 22,131
    eristdoof said:

    viewcode said:

    I'm appalled by Ruth Davidson's remarks. "referenda"? Ye Gods. It is always referendums.

    What I worked at BBC News in the late 70s we had two referendums going on in Scotland and Wales and the dictat came from high - the plural was referenda. At the time I was Duty Editor for Radios 1 and 2 news and felt almost embarrassed by this for our audiences. We used to get into all sorts of verbal contortions to avoid "referendums" but we never used the form referenda
    Stadia is the plural of stadium, media is the plural of medium, quanta is the plural of quantum. Referenda is the plural of referendum. I am trying desperately not to use the word "labia" here... :)
    Visa is the plural of Visum
    I did not know that, thank you.
  • HYUFDHYUFD Posts: 123,152
    kamski said:

    HYUFD said:

    If no deal is The Will Of The People, no one seems to have told The People:

    https://twitter.com/drjennings/status/1167013357620215809

    @HYUFD will conveniently ignore this as it does not suit his agenda.
    29% for May's Deal as a reasonable compromise is actually higher than soft Brexit on that poll, Remain is almost as divisive as No Deal is
    You are turning into a parody of yourself. You do realise other people can read the chart for themselves?
    54% is higher than 44%.
    49% is not "almost" the same as 41%.
    And the chart shows figures for "acceptable compromise" not "reasonable compromise".

    If you're going to lie about everything, probably best not to lie so obviously.
    Nothing to lie about, both No Deal and Remain have the highest favourables but also the highest negatives and May's Deal has the highest support as a compromise
  • eristdooferistdoof Posts: 5,065
    viewcode said:

    eristdoof said:


    #PedantryCorner

    #PedantryCorner is pronounced "Hash Pedantry Corner" it is a Hashtag.
    It's "Hashtag (pause) Pedantry Corner", and you have to do the airquotes thing while you're doing it, otherwise the spell is not well-formed and collapses.
    But the name for # is Hash, not Hashtag. The whole thing is the hashtag.
  • HYUFDHYUFD Posts: 123,152
    Alistair said:

    HYUFD said:

    malcolmg said:

    Oh Dear, Murdo who has been defeated 7 times trying to get elected , yet supped at the public teat each time by getting a losers list seat. A perfect leader for the Scottish pretend Tory party. Contribution for his almost £1M lottery win , some dire tweets about WATP
    Whoosh!

    The point being that the "Tories" "glory days" in Scotland were as the "Unionist" Party and not as the "Conservative" Party - which was seen as too "English". If they could get back to polling in the high thirties percentage of the vote it might be no bad thing. Where else are Unionist voters to go?
    I suspect the LDs will pick up some Unionist Remainers who voted Tory in 2017 but the Tories will keep most of their Leave voters in Scotland.


    In fact I think Slab could come 4th at the next general election in Scotland, the Shetland by election tonight might be an indicator
    Shetland by election will indicate fuck all. Even if the SNP won all it will show is that the SNP threw a lot of people at it.
    It will show swing and will likely see Slab fall from 3rd to 4th
  • CarlottaVanceCarlottaVance Posts: 60,216
    edited August 2019

    I'm appalled by Ruth Davidson's remarks. "referenda"? Ye Gods. It is always referendums.

    What I worked at BBC News in the late 70s we had two referendums going on in Scotland and Wales and the dictat came from high - the plural was referenda. At the time I was Duty Editor for Radios 1 and 2 news and felt almost embarrassed by this for our audiences. We used to get into all sorts of verbal contortions to avoid "referendums" but we never used the form referenda
    On a similar note, Dear the United Kingdom, it’s coup d’État, with a capital E with an accent aigu, please.

    #PedantryCorner
    I thought accents over capital letters were entirely optional in written French?
    Thats what I was taught too - and its certainly a widespread practice - but as a Francophile Republican TSE has the Academie Francaise Académie Française on his side.

    https://www.thoughtco.com/french-accented-capitals-4085546

    What's a patriotic Brit to do?
  • eggegg Posts: 1,749
    HYUFD said:

    So 47% think Brexit was wrong compared to the 52% who voted for it

    Here we go 🤓
  • Streeter said:

    I see @HYUFD is multitasking.

    https://twitter.com/HYUFD1/status/1167046174508892160?s=20

    The answer of course is 'I will when the UK Government proposes a credible one'.

    Come on, boffins! Stop wasting your time on curing cancer and coming up with new ceramides for L'Oréal shampoo... HYUFD and Mr Johnson require a technical solution to the Irish border, so pull your fingers out, nerds, and make it snappy!
  • bigjohnowlsbigjohnowls Posts: 22,676
    eristdoof said:

    viewcode said:

    I'm appalled by Ruth Davidson's remarks. "referenda"? Ye Gods. It is always referendums.

    What I worked at BBC News in the late 70s we had two referendums going on in Scotland and Wales and the dictat came from high - the plural was referenda. At the time I was Duty Editor for Radios 1 and 2 news and felt almost embarrassed by this for our audiences. We used to get into all sorts of verbal contortions to avoid "referendums" but we never used the form referenda
    Stadia is the plural of stadium, media is the plural of medium, quanta is the plural of quantum. Referenda is the plural of referendum. I am trying desperately not to use the word "labia" here... :)
    Visa is the plural of Visum
    I just bought some tea on a Visum card
  • I'm appalled by Ruth Davidson's remarks. "referenda"? Ye Gods. It is always referendums.

    What I worked at BBC News in the late 70s we had two referendums going on in Scotland and Wales and the dictat came from high - the plural was referenda. At the time I was Duty Editor for Radios 1 and 2 news and felt almost embarrassed by this for our audiences. We used to get into all sorts of verbal contortions to avoid "referendums" but we never used the form referenda
    On a similar note, Dear the United Kingdom, it’s coup d’État, with a capital E with an accent aigu, please.

    #PedantryCorner
    I thought accents over capital letters were entirely optional in written French?
    Thats what I was taught too - and its certainly a widespread practice - but as a Francophile Republican TSE has the Academie Francaise Académie Française on his side.

    https://www.thoughtco.com/french-accented-capitals-4085546

    What's a patriotic Brit to do?
    They may say that, but I think it's passe.
  • kamskikamski Posts: 5,193
    HYUFD said:

    kamski said:

    HYUFD said:

    If no deal is The Will Of The People, no one seems to have told The People:

    https://twitter.com/drjennings/status/1167013357620215809

    @HYUFD will conveniently ignore this as it does not suit his agenda.
    29% for May's Deal as a reasonable compromise is actually higher than soft Brexit on that poll, Remain is almost as divisive as No Deal is
    You are turning into a parody of yourself. You do realise other people can read the chart for themselves?
    54% is higher than 44%.
    49% is not "almost" the same as 41%.
    And the chart shows figures for "acceptable compromise" not "reasonable compromise".

    If you're going to lie about everything, probably best not to lie so obviously.
    Nothing to lie about, both No Deal and Remain have the highest favourables but also the highest negatives and May's Deal has the highest support as a compromise
    May's deal does NOT have the highest support as a compromise, unless you count the people who view an outcome as "fairly good" or "very good" as being actually against that outcome.

    No Deal clearly has a lot more negatives than Remain (49 to 41).

    Can you please stop spamming the forum with obvious lies.
  • DecrepitJohnLDecrepitJohnL Posts: 13,300
    eristdoof said:

    viewcode said:

    eristdoof said:


    #PedantryCorner

    #PedantryCorner is pronounced "Hash Pedantry Corner" it is a Hashtag.
    It's "Hashtag (pause) Pedantry Corner", and you have to do the airquotes thing while you're doing it, otherwise the spell is not well-formed and collapses.
    But the name for # is Hash, not Hashtag. The whole thing is the hashtag.
    It depends whether you are telling someone what the hashtag is, or are telling them how to type it.
  • HYUFDHYUFD Posts: 123,152
    Streeter said:

    I see @HYUFD is multitasking.

    https://twitter.com/HYUFD1/status/1167046174508892160?s=20

    The answer of course is 'I will when the UK Government proposes a credible one'.

    Which it will within 30 days
  • AnabobazinaAnabobazina Posts: 23,508
    Are the PB Tories on some sort of referral fee for advertising and/or promoting Brillo’s new show next Wednesday?

    (P.S. where’s my cut?)
  • viewcodeviewcode Posts: 22,131

    ab195 said:

    ab195 said:

    Let’s suppose the rebels and opposition unite and pass a simple Act. What will it say?
    ....

    If I were drafting it, it would say:

    1. The Chair of the Brexit Select Committee is appointed the UK's High Representative for Article 50, authorised by parliament to negotiate an extension of between X and Y months with the EU.

    2. In the event that agreement with the EU cannot be reached by the 15th October, the UK's High Representative for Article 50 is authorised and instructed by parliament to revoke the UK's notice Article 50, unless parliament votes otherwise.
    Interesting, and I see where you’re going with that as it is reasonably simple and “agreeable”. But it’s still open to the PM to say “if you agree his extension I’ll be very cross and will do undesirable thing X”, and the Committee Chair can’t really offer much about what will happen in the 6 months. Though I suppose we can assume an immediate election. I’d also want some pretty detailed legal advice on whether a person appointed by Parliament can be given that power (i.e. is it Parliament’s to give).
    But Boris as PM is on the EU council, can't be replaced at this forum while he remains PM and can actually veto the extension request even if it were deemed that parliament's lord high poo-Bah had any standing
    Now this is where it gets weird. The Head of Government is not automatically the person responsible for foreign policy. From memory (I may be wrong), this is the case of the Finnish PM. So it's entirely possible the role of UK plenipotentiary can be delegated by Parliament to somebody other than the PM, and the former authorised to speak for the UK to the EU
  • ab195ab195 Posts: 477
    Scott_P said:
    A little known fact about leak enquiries in this country is that they actually do usually find their man....
  • TOPPINGTOPPING Posts: 42,992

    Anyone got any tips for next SCON leader?

    I'm not seeing any betting markets yet

    Duke of Buccleuch?

  • BenpointerBenpointer Posts: 34,698
    HYUFD said:

    Streeter said:

    I see @HYUFD is multitasking.

    https://twitter.com/HYUFD1/status/1167046174508892160?s=20

    The answer of course is 'I will when the UK Government proposes a credible one'.

    Which it will within 30 days
    From the Guardian's live blog 50 minutes ago:

    "Boris Johnson’s Brexit envoy offered the European Union no new ideas in finding a way out of the Brexit impasse, Brussels sources have said."

  • HYUFD said:

    kamski said:

    HYUFD said:

    If no deal is The Will Of The People, no one seems to have told The People:

    https://twitter.com/drjennings/status/1167013357620215809

    @HYUFD will conveniently ignore this as it does not suit his agenda.
    29% for May's Deal as a reasonable compromise is actually higher than soft Brexit on that poll, Remain is almost as divisive as No Deal is
    You are turning into a parody of yourself. You do realise other people can read the chart for themselves?
    54% is higher than 44%.
    49% is not "almost" the same as 41%.
    And the chart shows figures for "acceptable compromise" not "reasonable compromise".

    If you're going to lie about everything, probably best not to lie so obviously.
    Nothing to lie about, both No Deal and Remain have the highest favourables but also the highest negatives and May's Deal has the highest support as a compromise

    Soft Brexit has higher favouables than No Deal as far as I can tell and its favourable plus acceptance level is higher than May's Deal. Are we looking at different charts?

  • eggegg Posts: 1,749
    Scott_P said:
    Not a problem. They all tend to catch up on sleep with afternoon naps anyway. Perhaps they can put up some screens with snooker on to help them snooze through it.
  • CarlottaVanceCarlottaVance Posts: 60,216
    viewcode said:

    I'm appalled by Ruth Davidson's remarks. "referenda"? Ye Gods. It is always referendums.

    What I worked at BBC News in the late 70s we had two referendums going on in Scotland and Wales and the dictat came from high - the plural was referenda. At the time I was Duty Editor for Radios 1 and 2 news and felt almost embarrassed by this for our audiences. We used to get into all sorts of verbal contortions to avoid "referendums" but we never used the form referenda
    Stadia is the plural of stadium, media is the plural of medium, quanta is the plural of quantum. Referenda is the plural of referendum. I am trying desperately not to use the word "labia" here... :)
    The word referendum is derived from the Latin word referendum, which means what must be referred. Some believe that the plural form is referenda, following the Latin rules of pluralization. This is incorrect. Referendum is now considered an English word and follows the English rules of pluralization, simply adding an s to form the plural as in referendums.

    https://grammarist.com/plurals/referendum/

    Referendums is logically preferable as a plural form meaning 'ballots on one issue' (as a Latin gerund referendum has no plural). The Latin plural gerundive 'referenda', meaning 'things to be referred', necessarily connotes a plurality of issues

    It is closely related to agenda, "those matters which must be driven forward", from ago, to drive (cattle); and memorandum, "that matter which must be remembered", from memoro, to call to mind, corrigenda, from rego, to rule, make straight, those things which must be made straight (corrected), etc.


    https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Referendum

    So a referenda on Brexit, anyone?
  • NigelbNigelb Posts: 71,238

    More misleading statements. The enemy of democracy is misinformation. You should be ashamed of yourself.

    Not one thing I said was misleading.

    Its sitting next week - FACT.
    They could change government next week if that's what MPs want - FACT.
    MPs in Parliament literally voted themselves a 6 week holiday recently. FACT

    Remember recesses are voted for, now given the time constraints I might have thought MPs might consider it more important to resolve Brexit BEFORE going on a six week holiday but apparently they knew better. That would have given the public some security in knowing what was going on, but why bother to make a decision? - My opinion but I think its reasonable.

    Parliament has had 3.5 years since the referendum. Its had six months nearly since Brexit was extended. Its had six weeks now they chose to be on holiday rather than bother to sort this out. Forgive me for not giving a damn about crocodile tears over 4 frigging days. - FACT, FACT, FACT, my opinion.

    MPs need to stop dicking about and make an actual decision. They need to stop saying what they don't want and decide what they do want. - My opinion but I think its reasonable.

    If they do that then the very long overdue State Opening of Parliament and associated 4-sitting-day proroguation won't change a thing. - FACT.
    The conference recess has not been voted on yet mate.
    And now can't be.
  • HYUFDHYUFD Posts: 123,152
    edited August 2019

    HYUFD said:

    kamski said:

    HYUFD said:

    If no deal is The Will Of The People, no one seems to have told The People:

    https://twitter.com/drjennings/status/1167013357620215809

    @HYUFD will conveniently ignore this as it does not suit his agenda.
    29% for May's Deal as a reasonable compromise is actually higher than soft Brexit on that poll, Remain is almost as divisive as No Deal is
    You are turning into a parody of yourself. You do realise other people can read the chart for themselves?
    54% is higher than 44%.
    49% is not "almost" the same as 41%.
    And the chart shows figures for "acceptable compromise" not "reasonable compromise".

    If you're going to lie about everything, probably best not to lie so obviously.
    Nothing to lie about, both No Deal and Remain have the highest favourables but also the highest negatives and May's Deal has the highest support as a compromise

    Soft Brexit has higher favouables than No Deal as far as I can tell and its favourable plus acceptance level is higher than May's Deal. Are we looking at different charts?

    No Deal has a higher very good outcome rating than soft Brexit and May's Deal has the highest compromise rating
  • CharlesCharles Posts: 35,758
    eek said:

    GIN1138 said:

    Loving the Remainer tears. :D

    I'm not seeing tears - to be honest I want this over with so that the show trials can begin.
    What is it with these Remainers and their desire for violence and retribution?
  • Scott_PScott_P Posts: 51,453
    ab195 said:

    A little known fact about leak enquiries in this country is that they actually do usually find their man....

    Have they found out who shivved the US ambassador yet?
  • HYUFDHYUFD Posts: 123,152

    HYUFD said:

    Streeter said:

    I see @HYUFD is multitasking.

    https://twitter.com/HYUFD1/status/1167046174508892160?s=20

    The answer of course is 'I will when the UK Government proposes a credible one'.

    Which it will within 30 days
    From the Guardian's live blog 50 minutes ago:

    "Boris Johnson’s Brexit envoy offered the European Union no new ideas in finding a way out of the Brexit impasse, Brussels sources have said."

    We are not even a week since Boris met Macron and Merkel, let alone 30 days
  • I'm appalled by Ruth Davidson's remarks. "referenda"? Ye Gods. It is always referendums.

    What I worked at BBC News in the late 70s we had two referendums going on in Scotland and Wales and the dictat came from high - the plural was referenda. At the time I was Duty Editor for Radios 1 and 2 news and felt almost embarrassed by this for our audiences. We used to get into all sorts of verbal contortions to avoid "referendums" but we never used the form referenda
    On a similar note, Dear the United Kingdom, it’s coup d’État, with a capital E with an accent aigu, please.

    #PedantryCorner
    I thought accents over capital letters were entirely optional in written French?
    Thats what I was taught too - and its certainly a widespread practice - but as a Francophile Republican TSE has the Academie Francaise Académie Française on his side.

    https://www.thoughtco.com/french-accented-capitals-4085546

    What's a patriotic Brit to do?
    It is fake news to say I’m a Francophile.

    I only learned French so I could mock the fromage manger des singes de reddition in their own language.

    One of the saddest things about Brexit is that the English language will no longer be the lingua franca of the EU.
  • BenpointerBenpointer Posts: 34,698
    HYUFD said:

    So 47% think Brexit was wrong compared to the 52% who voted for it

    No. On a like for like basis 37.5% voted for Brexit!

  • viewcodeviewcode Posts: 22,131
    dixiedean said:

    viewcode said:

    dixiedean said:

    Is this true that the decision to prorogue was taken by Johnson, Gove and Cox alone and without consultation with other Ministers? Just mentioned on WATO.

    Yup. As I pointed out, you can do a lot with 3 PCs and a famous example is the authorisation of the Falklands TaskForce (Thatcher, Tebbit, Nott). It worries me that I know this and MPs don't.
    Does explain the relative absence of Cabinet Ministers out to defend it.
    Interesting fact. The Cabinet is a standing subcommittee of the Privy Council. The trick to understanding the UK is that it's a mediaeval kingdom retrofitted to behave like a Westphalian state. Many of the old, dusty buttons and switches still have power and there are many tricks one can pull.
  • AlastairMeeksAlastairMeeks Posts: 30,340
    viewcode said:

    ab195 said:

    ab195 said:

    Let’s suppose the rebels and opposition unite and pass a simple Act. What will it say?
    ....

    If I were drafting it, it would say:

    1. The Chair of the Brexit Select Committee is appointed the UK's High Representative for Article 50, authorised by parliament to negotiate an extension of between X and Y months with the EU.

    2. In the event that agreement with the EU cannot be reached by the 15th October, the UK's High Representative for Article 50 is authorised and instructed by parliament to revoke the UK's notice Article 50, unless parliament votes otherwise.
    Interesting, and I see where you’re going with that as it is reasonably simple and “agreeable”. But it’s still open to the PM to say “if you agree his extension I’ll be very cross and will do undesirable thing X”, and the Committee Chair can’t really offer much about what will happen in the 6 months. Though I suppose we can assume an immediate election. I’d also want some pretty detailed legal advice on whether a person appointed by Parliament can be given that power (i.e. is it Parliament’s to give).
    But Boris as PM is on the EU council, can't be replaced at this forum while he remains PM and can actually veto the extension request even if it were deemed that parliament's lord high poo-Bah had any standing
    Now this is where it gets weird. The Head of Government is not automatically the person responsible for foreign policy. From memory (I may be wrong), this is the case of the Finnish PM. So it's entirely possible the role of UK plenipotentiary can be delegated by Parliament to somebody other than the PM, and the former authorised to speak for the UK to the EU
    This was the suggestion I made the other day about how the constitutionalist MPs could deal with a rogue Prime Minister.
  • NigelbNigelb Posts: 71,238

    HYUFD said:

    kamski said:

    HYUFD said:

    If no deal is The Will Of The People, no one seems to have told The People:

    https://twitter.com/drjennings/status/1167013357620215809

    @HYUFD will conveniently ignore this as it does not suit his agenda.
    29% for May's Deal as a reasonable compromise is actually higher than soft Brexit on that poll, Remain is almost as divisive as No Deal is
    You are turning into a parody of yourself. You do realise other people can read the chart for themselves?
    54% is higher than 44%.
    49% is not "almost" the same as 41%.
    And the chart shows figures for "acceptable compromise" not "reasonable compromise".

    If you're going to lie about everything, probably best not to lie so obviously.
    Nothing to lie about, both No Deal and Remain have the highest favourables but also the highest negatives and May's Deal has the highest support as a compromise

    Soft Brexit has higher favouables than No Deal as far as I can tell and its favourable plus acceptance level is higher than May's Deal. Are we looking at different charts?

    Not at all.
    You just haven't learned the art of cherrypicking from manure.
  • TheuniondivvieTheuniondivvie Posts: 42,004
    TOPPING said:

    Anyone got any tips for next SCON leader?

    I'm not seeing any betting markets yet

    Duke of Buccleuch?

    Earl of Inverness a shoo in.
  • AlistairAlistair Posts: 23,670
    Coup d’État

    The É is capitalised.
  • felixfelix Posts: 15,164
    Hilarious that Philip Pullman's tweet hinting that Boris should be hanged has attracted little comment on here. Now if it had come from the other side......
  • ab195ab195 Posts: 477
    Scott_P said:
    Basically our system is broken. We haven’t had a PM with no majority, not even C&S, on a blatant confidence matter since the 19th century. And back then what we assume as the basics of democracy and the sovereign’s role weren’t in place.

    It is a mad situation. The PM is a long way from a majority on the key issue of the day, but Parliament won’t remove him.
  • TOPPINGTOPPING Posts: 42,992
    Charles said:

    eek said:

    GIN1138 said:

    Loving the Remainer tears. :D

    I'm not seeing tears - to be honest I want this over with so that the show trials can begin.
    What is it with these Remainers and their desire for violence and retribution?
    Whereas left wing Remainers want violence and redistribution.
  • NigelbNigelb Posts: 71,238

    Nigelb said:

    Nigelb said:

    Indeed but it will be ignored by your fellow Brexiteers who prioritise Brexit over the Union.

    Sad.
    Probably, yes. Very depressing.
    Cheer up, you’re getting what you’ve always wanted, the UK leaving the EU.
    No, I don't put sacrificing everything else as worth it just for that.

    It's why I favoured May's Deal.
    Considering May's awful deal and the backstop was a betrayal of Take Back Control and everything we debated during the referendum I'm confused by its popularity here.
    Prorouging Parliament is a far worse betrayal of Take Back Control
    If Parliament was prorogued from 4 September to 1 November maybe. That's not happening though is it?

    Proroguation is happening over 4 sitting days as a long overdue Queens Speech finally happens.

    If it wanted to Parliament could vote to revoke. It's had 3.5 years so far the hysteria over 4 sitting days for an overdue State Opening is pathetic.
    Stop lying. Its not 4 days, its 6 weeks.
    Justify extending the current Parliament. It is already the longest for nearly 400 years.

    You can't.
    We are due to leave the EU without a deal very shortly.
    Any deal - and your PM promises he will return with one - will have to be debated in, and approved by, Parliament.
    Proroguing Parliament in this manner reduces its function to that of a rubber stamp.
    If there is to be any further deal, it will not be delivered by the EU before their mid-October summit. Therefore no time has been lost to debate that specific deal - if it materialises.

    All that has been lost is mischief time for the Remainers. Boo hoo.
    The voice of a democrat.
    Yep. I want to implmemt the Referendum. You? Not so much a democrat.....
    Unlike your heroes, I was reluctantly in favour of May's deal being approved.
  • viewcodeviewcode Posts: 22,131
    eristdoof said:

    viewcode said:

    eristdoof said:


    #PedantryCorner

    #PedantryCorner is pronounced "Hash Pedantry Corner" it is a Hashtag.
    It's "Hashtag (pause) Pedantry Corner", and you have to do the airquotes thing while you're doing it, otherwise the spell is not well-formed and collapses.
    But the name for # is Hash, not Hashtag. The whole thing is the hashtag.
    # is a hash, but it's use in a Twitter context is as a hashtag, and the word "hashtag" has become the word used to describe the hash when used as a hashtag to the rest of the phrase. So # is pronounced "hash" when it's used as a hash, and "hashtag" when it's used as a hashtag.
  • Scott_PScott_P Posts: 51,453
    ab195 said:

    The PM is a long way from a majority on the key issue of the day, but Parliament won’t remove him.

    They still might
  • dixiedeandixiedean Posts: 29,414

    viewcode said:

    I'm appalled by Ruth Davidson's remarks. "referenda"? Ye Gods. It is always referendums.

    What I worked at BBC News in the late 70s we had two referendums going on in Scotland and Wales and the dictat came from high - the plural was referenda. At the time I was Duty Editor for Radios 1 and 2 news and felt almost embarrassed by this for our audiences. We used to get into all sorts of verbal contortions to avoid "referendums" but we never used the form referenda
    Stadia is the plural of stadium, media is the plural of medium, quanta is the plural of quantum. Referenda is the plural of referendum. I am trying desperately not to use the word "labia" here... :)
    The word referendum is derived from the Latin word referendum, which means what must be referred. Some believe that the plural form is referenda, following the Latin rules of pluralization. This is incorrect. Referendum is now considered an English word and follows the English rules of pluralization, simply adding an s to form the plural as in referendums.

    https://grammarist.com/plurals/referendum/

    Referendums is logically preferable as a plural form meaning 'ballots on one issue' (as a Latin gerund referendum has no plural). The Latin plural gerundive 'referenda', meaning 'things to be referred', necessarily connotes a plurality of issues

    It is closely related to agenda, "those matters which must be driven forward", from ago, to drive (cattle); and memorandum, "that matter which must be remembered", from memoro, to call to mind, corrigenda, from rego, to rule, make straight, those things which must be made straight (corrected), etc.


    https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Referendum

    So a referenda on Brexit, anyone?
    Only if there were "things" rather than a "thing" to be referred.
  • NigelbNigelb Posts: 71,238
    felix said:

    Hilarious that Philip Pullman's tweet hinting that Boris should be hanged has attracted little comment on here. Now if it had come from the other side......

    Probably because no one was aware of it.
    Any such language is contemptible.
  • ab195ab195 Posts: 477
    Scott_P said:

    ab195 said:

    A little known fact about leak enquiries in this country is that they actually do usually find their man....

    Have they found out who shivved the US ambassador yet?
    Almost certainly.
  • felixfelix Posts: 15,164

    eristdoof said:

    viewcode said:

    I'm appalled by Ruth Davidson's remarks. "referenda"? Ye Gods. It is always referendums.

    What I worked at BBC News in the late 70s we had two referendums going on in Scotland and Wales and the dictat came from high - the plural was referenda. At the time I was Duty Editor for Radios 1 and 2 news and felt almost embarrassed by this for our audiences. We used to get into all sorts of verbal contortions to avoid "referendums" but we never used the form referenda
    Stadia is the plural of stadium, media is the plural of medium, quanta is the plural of quantum. Referenda is the plural of referendum. I am trying desperately not to use the word "labia" here... :)
    Visa is the plural of Visum
    I just bought some tea on a Visum card
    tea or teum?
  • MikeSmithsonMikeSmithson Posts: 7,382
    edited August 2019

    Indeed but it will be ignored by your fellow Brexiteers who prioritise Brexit over the Union.

    Sad.
    Probably, yes. Very depressing.
    Cheer up, you’re getting what you’ve always wanted, the UK leaving the EU.
    No, I don't put sacrificing everything else as worth it just for that.

    It's why I favoured May's Deal.
    Considering May's awful deal and the backstop was a betrayal of Take Back Control and everything we debated during the referendum I'm confused by its popularity here.
    Prorouging Parliament is a far worse betrayal of Take Back Control
    If Parliament was prorogued from 4 September to 1 November maybe. That's not happening though is it?

    Proroguation is happening over 4 sitting days as a long overdue Queens Speech finally happens.

    If it wanted to Parliament could vote to revoke. It's had 3.5 years so far the hysteria over 4 sitting days for an overdue State Opening is pathetic.
    Bollocks. You know effing well that the PM is frit of the Commons. He's a coward and a liar. This wheeze has been designed to avoid scrutiny.
  • ydoethurydoethur Posts: 71,426
    Scott_P said:
    99% sure this is as fake as AQA's quality assurance processes, and for much the same reason:

    http://www.twitter.com/number10staffer/status/1167051655076077568
  • Scott_PScott_P Posts: 51,453
    viewcode said:

    # is a hash, but it's use in a Twitter context is as a hashtag, and the word "hashtag" has become the word used to describe the hash when used as a hashtag to the rest of the phrase. So # is pronounced "hash" when it's used as a hash, and "hashtag" when it's used as a hashtag.

    That's not entirely accurate.

    On Twitter, a hashtag is the hash # sign followed by some text.

    #Brexit for example

    Here the "hashtag" is #Brexit.
  • CharlesCharles Posts: 35,758
    egg said:

    Good to see Priti sorting out the surge of Channel crossings by illegal migrants today. Whose got the tankers and hostages Iran illegally holding top of their to do list, what’s being done about that? We’ve capitulated and freed their tanker.

    Okay, on topic, let’s not get sidetracked here: There’s only one action very top of Boris to do list, whats the alternate plan for the backstop. Boris has to turn round that 6 point deficit. He has to make brexit right. He has to make brexit work.

    The backstop is there to avoid a hard border across Ireland when UK and EU are operating different customs regimes. The hard border not only breaks treaties signed up to by the UK government, in practice it will become focal for protest, likely end up with British troops manning it to protect it. The previous PMs negotiation came up with this backstop, did not come up with an alternative even in face of mortal destruction of her political career. Boris governments official policy is not “we don’t like the backstop so no backstop” the only honest policy and realistic negotiation is an alternative plan to be agreed with EU replacing proposed backstop, indeed something Boris with customary oomph agreed to have settled in just 30 days last week accepting it was up to Britain to provide a solution, he said he was "more than happy" with the "blistering timetable" Merkel had set out.

    So Boris, the EU heads of state and negotiators, the British people, infact the whole world is waiting to hear your plan for alternative backstop, your timetable is ticking down. Where’s your backstop alternative?

    How does imposing the backstop against the wishes of one of the two communities in NI keep to the GFA?

    This should have been handled sensibly. But poor dear Leo thought he knew better. Fuckwit.
  • ydoethurydoethur Posts: 71,426

    I'm appalled by Ruth Davidson's remarks. "referenda"? Ye Gods. It is always referendums.

    What I worked at BBC News in the late 70s we had two referendums going on in Scotland and Wales and the dictat came from high - the plural was referenda. At the time I was Duty Editor for Radios 1 and 2 news and felt almost embarrassed by this for our audiences. We used to get into all sorts of verbal contortions to avoid "referendums" but we never used the form referenda
    On a similar note, Dear the United Kingdom, it’s coup d’État, with a capital E with an accent aigu, please.

    #PedantryCorner
    I thought accents over capital letters were entirely optional in written French?
    Thats what I was taught too - and its certainly a widespread practice - but as a Francophile Republican TSE has the Academie Francaise Académie Française on his side.

    https://www.thoughtco.com/french-accented-capitals-4085546

    What's a patriotic Brit to do?
    It is fake news to say I’m a Francophile.

    I only learned French so I could mock the fromage manger des singes de reddition in their own language.

    One of the saddest things about Brexit is that the English language will no longer be the lingua franca of the EU.
    Won't the Maltese and the Irish have something to say about that?
  • rpjsrpjs Posts: 3,787

    I'm appalled by Ruth Davidson's remarks. "referenda"? Ye Gods. It is always referendums.

    What I worked at BBC News in the late 70s we had two referendums going on in Scotland and Wales and the dictat came from high - the plural was referenda. At the time I was Duty Editor for Radios 1 and 2 news and felt almost embarrassed by this for our audiences. We used to get into all sorts of verbal contortions to avoid "referendums" but we never used the form referenda
    On a similar note, Dear the United Kingdom, it’s coup d’État, with a capital E with an accent aigu, please.

    #PedantryCorner
    I thought accents over capital letters were entirely optional in written French?
    Thats what I was taught too - and its certainly a widespread practice - but as a Francophile Republican TSE has the Academie Francaise Académie Française on his side.

    https://www.thoughtco.com/french-accented-capitals-4085546

    What's a patriotic Brit to do?
    I was taught at school, many many years ago, in fact around the last time a British government lost a VONC, that using accents on capitals was regarded by most educated French-speakers as a bit déclassé and a sign of a poor education. I was also told that it was the advent of the typewriter that did for the elimination of accented capitals as they are difficult to satisfactorily achieve on such machines.

    However, I understand from Francophone friends that because word processors and computer typesetting make it easier to produce accented capitals, the tide has turned in their favour and it is no longer considered infra dig to use them. It’s not expected either, though, so it’s totally up to the writer.
  • felixfelix Posts: 15,164
    Nigelb said:

    More misleading statements. The enemy of democracy is misinformation. You should be ashamed of yourself.

    Not one thing I said was misleading.

    Its sitting next week - FACT.
    They could change government next week if that's what MPs want - FACT.
    MPs in Parliament literally voted themselves a 6 week holiday recently. FACT

    Remember recesses are voted for, now given the time constraints I might have thought MPs might consider it more important to resolve Brexit BEFORE going on a six week holiday but apparently they knew better. That would have given the public some security in knowing what was going on, but why bother to make a decision? - My opinion but I think its reasonable.

    Parliament has had 3.5 years since the referendum. Its had six months nearly since Brexit was extended. Its had six weeks now they chose to be on holiday rather than bother to sort this out. Forgive me for not giving a damn about crocodile tears over 4 frigging days. - FACT, FACT, FACT, my opinion.

    MPs need to stop dicking about and make an actual decision. They need to stop saying what they don't want and decide what they do want. - My opinion but I think its reasonable.

    If they do that then the very long overdue State Opening of Parliament and associated 4-sitting-day proroguation won't change a thing. - FACT.
    The conference recess has not been voted on yet mate.
    And now can't be.
    Oh yeah.. right.. of course.
  • Scott_PScott_P Posts: 51,453
    felix said:

    Hilarious that Philip Pullman's tweet hinting that Boris should be hanged has attracted little comment on here. Now if it had come from the other side......

    https://twitter.com/aljwhite/status/1167052451389853696
  • Scott_PScott_P Posts: 51,453
    ab195 said:

    Almost certainly.

    And it isn't public because?
  • felixfelix Posts: 15,164

    Indeed but it will be ignored by your fellow Brexiteers who prioritise Brexit over the Union.

    Sad.
    Probably, yes. Very depressing.
    Cheer up, you’re getting what you’ve always wanted, the UK leaving the EU.
    No, I don't put sacrificing everything else as worth it just for that.

    It's why I favoured May's Deal.
    Considering May's awful deal and the backstop was a betrayal of Take Back Control and everything we debated during the referendum I'm confused by its popularity here.
    Prorouging Parliament is a far worse betrayal of Take Back Control
    If Parliament was prorogued from 4 September to 1 November maybe. That's not happening though is it?

    Proroguation is happening over 4 sitting days as a long overdue Queens Speech finally happens.

    If it wanted to Parliament could vote to revoke. It's had 3.5 years so far the hysteria over 4 sitting days for an overdue State Opening is pathetic.
    Bollocks. You know effing well that the PM is frit of the Commons. He's a coward and a liar. This wheeze has been designed scrutiny.
    What is it with LDs and bollocks?
  • BenpointerBenpointer Posts: 34,698
    HYUFD said:

    HYUFD said:

    Streeter said:

    I see @HYUFD is multitasking.

    https://twitter.com/HYUFD1/status/1167046174508892160?s=20

    The answer of course is 'I will when the UK Government proposes a credible one'.

    Which it will within 30 days
    From the Guardian's live blog 50 minutes ago:

    "Boris Johnson’s Brexit envoy offered the European Union no new ideas in finding a way out of the Brexit impasse, Brussels sources have said."

    We are not even a week since Boris met Macron and Merkel, let alone 30 days
    FFS! They've had 3 years to think up an alternative solution!

    He's been PM for 36 days and known he was certain to be PM for twice as long; if there's any solution out there his team would surely have it by now?
  • CharlesCharles Posts: 35,758

    TOPPING said:

    A republican, such as yourself, does not love this country. He loves another country that this one, that the UK is not; one without a monarch as head of state. That means you are not a patriot.

    The USA lacks a monarch and is full of republicans. Whatever anyone thinks of Americans, their patriotism rarely in doubt.

    A monarch is not required to be a patriot.
    Would you view an American citizen who campaigned for the Queen to be crowned as Queen of the US as a patriot?
  • BenpointerBenpointer Posts: 34,698
    felix said:

    Indeed but it will be ignored by your fellow Brexiteers who prioritise Brexit over the Union.

    Sad.
    Probably, yes. Very depressing.
    Cheer up, you’re getting what you’ve always wanted, the UK leaving the EU.
    No, I don't put sacrificing everything else as worth it just for that.

    It's why I favoured May's Deal.
    Considering May's awful deal and the backstop was a betrayal of Take Back Control and everything we debated during the referendum I'm confused by its popularity here.
    Prorouging Parliament is a far worse betrayal of Take Back Control
    If Parliament was prorogued from 4 September to 1 November maybe. That's not happening though is it?

    Proroguation is happening over 4 sitting days as a long overdue Queens Speech finally happens.

    If it wanted to Parliament could vote to revoke. It's had 3.5 years so far the hysteria over 4 sitting days for an overdue State Opening is pathetic.
    Bollocks. You know effing well that the PM is frit of the Commons. He's a coward and a liar. This wheeze has been designed scrutiny.
    What is it with LDs and bollocks?
    They're the only party that are showing some right now?
  • ydoethurydoethur Posts: 71,426

    Indeed but it will be ignored by your fellow Brexiteers who prioritise Brexit over the Union.

    Sad.
    Probably, yes. Very depressing.
    Cheer up, you’re getting what you’ve always wanted, the UK leaving the EU.
    No, I don't put sacrificing everything else as worth it just for that.

    It's why I favoured May's Deal.
    Considering May's awful deal and the backstop was a betrayal of Take Back Control and everything we debated during the referendum I'm confused by its popularity here.
    Prorouging Parliament is a far worse betrayal of Take Back Control
    If Parliament was prorogued from 4 September to 1 November maybe. That's not happening though is it?

    Proroguation is happening over 4 sitting days as a long overdue Queens Speech finally happens.

    If it wanted to Parliament could vote to revoke. It's had 3.5 years so far the hysteria over 4 sitting days for an overdue State Opening is pathetic.
    Bollocks. You know effing well that the PM is frit of the Commons. He's a coward and a liar. This wheeze has been designed to avoid scrutiny.
    I totally disagree with this characterisation of our Prime Minister.

    It should read, 'he's a coward, a liar, a racist, a chauvinist, a bully, an inarticulate speaker and a lazy fool.'
  • felixfelix Posts: 15,164
    Scott_P said:

    felix said:

    Hilarious that Philip Pullman's tweet hinting that Boris should be hanged has attracted little comment on here. Now if it had come from the other side......

    https://twitter.com/aljwhite/status/1167052451389853696
    Oh - so that's all right then ... let's hope no other lunatic takes him at his word.
This discussion has been closed.