I never said they wouldn't vote for it I just think pushing labour official policy as nick palmer did is a bit disingenuous when, yes in my opinion, so many of its mps would not give a fig for the renegotiate bit and thus are selling a false prospectus.
You think it's disingenuous to say they're going to do something, which they are indeed going to do, because they don't care much about part of the thing that they're accurately telling you they're going to do???
It might be labour policy to renegotiate a new deal but do you really honestly believe that can be done when 75% or whatever of labour mps want to remain come what may? They have no interest in following the official policy and say so openly.
I think they would. I'm a "diehard remainer" as @HYUFD likes to call me but would accept EEA/EFTA.
In a decade maybe but we have to end free movement and bring EU immigration under control first as Vote Leave promised in the campaign
If the promises that the leave campaigns made must be honoured then surely No Deal has to be ruled out.
If we can now ditch the assurances that we would leave with a deal and choose No Deal then we can ditch assurances on immigration and opt for EFTA. You cannot have it both ways.
Vote Leave did not rule out No Deal, they did promise an end to free movement from the EU
As it happens, yet again you're wrong. Vote Leave issued a roadmap to follow a Leave victory:
"It is only after informal negotiations with both other EU members and the Commission that issues such as whether and how to use Article 50 will be clear. It makes no sense to trigger Article 50 immediately after the 23 June vote and before extensive preliminary discussions."
"It will be possible to negotiate a new settlement with the EU, including a UK-EU free trade deal, by the next general election in May 2020."
What a shame it was a Remainer who decided to trigger Article 50 then
For the previous nine months, the Leave drunks' chorus had been screeching at the government to do so. As usual, Leavers are determined not to take responsibility for the consequences of the actions that they had desperately sought.
With a deadline of October 31st one side had to act first; turns out it was BoJo with the cajones. Fair enough - we'll now see how much parliament really does want to stop him.
Left alone dear god I think he actually would go for no deal.
As a visceral reaction to the BBC breaking news page, however, there is huge resentment at this step being taken which smells a bit like undermining parliament but I accept that many leavers will be high-fiving at the news.
It doesnt smell like it, it is it. And they have been pissing about themselves of course. But if parliament does not pull its finger out and agree something, anything now, it truly is pointless - he has thrown down the gauntlet that he should get to do whatever he wants in pursuit of his goal, will they allow that?
I hope not, and will laugh when they try to spook me about Corbyn the bogeyman.
As a visceral reaction to the BBC breaking news page, however, there is huge resentment at this step being taken which smells a bit like undermining parliament but I accept that many leavers will be high-fiving at the news.
Only the thick leavers, the smarter ones will realise that such if successful such tactics are likely to be used again.
With the spending review announcement on 4 September and the parliamentary debates after there will not be any time prior to porogement for the rebels to take over the parliamentary timetable.
With the spending review announcement on 4 September and the parliamentary debates after there will not be any time prior to porogement for the rebels to take over the parliamentary timetable.
I thought that had been canned? Instead an article in the Daily Telegraph announced it.
I wonder whether the EU will negotiate with a government that has shut down democracy to force through a policy it has no mandate to implement.
No point.
If parliament is prorogued, there is no time to pass the mythical renegotiated deal. Prorogation means No Deal is the plan, and the rest a smokescreen.
Mr. Observer, I'm not sure that's the lesson I'd draw.
I'd conclude that Johnson's frit of the Commons and thinks there's a serious risk of losing if it sits. That doesn't necessarily mean he doesn't want a deal.
Mr. Gate, it's incredible to have a very divided body politic but claim only one side is to blame. Kaleds and Thals spring to mind.
Edited extra bit: hmm. Interesting comment, Dr. Foxy. Seems especially strange as there has been some movement from the EU recently. Perhaps Johnson is afraid of succeeding in renegotiating.
With a deadline of October 31st one side had to act first; turns out it was BoJo with the cajones. Fair enough - we'll now see how much parliament really does want to stop him.
Left alone dear god I think he actually would go for no deal.
As a visceral reaction to the BBC breaking news page, however, there is huge resentment at this step being taken which smells a bit like undermining parliament but I accept that many leavers will be high-fiving at the news.
It doesnt smell like it, it is it. And they have been pissing about themselves of course. But if parliament does not pull its finger out and agree something, anything now, it truly is pointless - he has thrown down the gauntlet that he should get to do whatever he wants in pursuit of his goal, will they allow that?
I hope not, and will laugh when they try to spook me about Corbyn the bogeyman.
Well I have always thought that anything legal and constitutional is fair game. This is presumably both and hence we shall see whether there is the will to emply equally legal and constitutional means to prevent it. At present those who dislike this measure are listening carefully for the cogs whirring inside the head of Dominic Grieve, I suspect.
Mr. Observer, I'm not sure that's the lesson I'd draw.
I'd conclude that Johnson's frit of the Commons and thinks there's a serious risk of losing if it sits. That doesn't necessarily mean he doesn't want a deal.
Mr. Gate, it's incredible to have a very divided body politic but claim only one side is to blame. Kaleds and Thals spring to mind.
I'm saying that Boris and his administration is to blame for no deal. It is quite literally his policy, and it is entirely avoidable.
What do you expect Remainers to do? Capitulate? They have been thrown no bone, no meat, nothing.
I never said they wouldn't vote for it I just think pushing labour official policy as nick palmer did is a bit disingenuous when, yes in my opinion, so many of its mps would not give a fig for the renegotiate bit and thus are selling a false prospectus.
You think it's disingenuous to say they're going to do something, which they are indeed going to do, because they don't care much about part of the thing that they're accurately telling you they're going to do???
Its disingenuous to pretend the mps will engage in a renegotiation if they have no interest in it achieving anything and for many of them just a pretence. Trumpeting that as labour policy is misleading when as far as I can see the bulk of them wont give a crap about it and only care about remaining. They should be just asking for a deal plus remain referendum, with them backing remain, rather than wasting time on a negotiation most of their mps dont care about and wont back.
As a visceral reaction to the BBC breaking news page, however, there is huge resentment at this step being taken which smells a bit like undermining parliament but I accept that many leavers will be high-fiving at the news.
Only the thick leavers, the smarter ones will realise that such if successful such tactics are likely to be used again.
I don't think there are any smart leavers. Even our very own, logically consistent @Richard_Tyndall who I admire for the clarity of his thought nevertheless believes that pulling the house down around us is worth it because of some kind of indeterminate benefit in the long run. That is not the sign of anyone smart.
Prem finances, by and large sustainable actually. One can make an argument for a salary cap (One could make it ex UEFA, Champions League revenue and even ex owner equity injection) - but actually there aren't too many issues.
The real problem comes at Championship level and I presume below
'The main driver of losses is poor cost control, with clubs paying out as much as £202 in wages for every £100 of income.' That's completely unsustainable in any world and a cap of say 52% of income would work. If owners want to make a "push for the Prem" then an injection of equity should be the only way to achieve this rather than a loan to the club with multiple and complex charges on the ground or whatnot.
In essence a system that borrows from elements of the NFL cap but that allows owners to 'push' with equity injections, not loans.
I guess I never saw the cowering, weak, uninfluential UK you did.
In the history books it will be this easily overlooked fact that becomes prominent I believe. It was always the leavers that were so insecure as to want to shut out the rest of the world because they didn't believe they were strong or capable enough to engage and be heard whereas the remainers were always confident that the UK could take part as a leading element of a mutually beneficial association of nations.
Mr. Observer, I wonder if this extra pressure might actually help the anti-no deal alliance coalesce more tightly.
I forget who wrote it, maybe Sun Zi, but I've read that an enemy that's left an escape route on the fourth side and surrounded on three will eagerly disperse. But if you surround them on all sides they'll fight to the death (whether that's theirs or yours).
Edited extra bit: axed an errant 'forced'.
I agree this will start to focus minds at Anti No Deal Alliance HQ - or rather, it needs to if they're serious about their purpose rather than pissing around as they have for the past 9 months. Of course.. the key point is that there is no Anti No Deal Alliance HQ.. it's a still-shaky group of competing egos who all want some different combo of deal/referendum/GE/unicorns.
In particular, the Labour leadership needs to decide whether its actual policy is letting Boris own a "disastrous Tory no deal" or doing something to prevent it. (As opposed to whatever iteration of "we have splinters in our arse" they're using today).
Personally and selfishly (as someone relatively well off and with a big enough veg patch), letting Boris own it gets more attractive by the day: it neutralises all the old bollocks about traitors and quislings and Respecting the Will of the People, and if remainer forecasts of the consequences are anything like correct is more likely to lead to a longer-term reintegration and no Tory govt for years when it all goes tits-up. But I'm not convinced that's in the short to medium term national interest.
With a deadline of October 31st one side had to act first; turns out it was BoJo with the cajones. Fair enough - we'll now see how much parliament really does want to stop him.
Left alone dear god I think he actually would go for no deal.
As a visceral reaction to the BBC breaking news page, however, there is huge resentment at this step being taken which smells a bit like undermining parliament but I accept that many leavers will be high-fiving at the news.
It doesnt smell like it, it is it. And they have been pissing about themselves of course. But if parliament does not pull its finger out and agree something, anything now, it truly is pointless - he has thrown down the gauntlet that he should get to do whatever he wants in pursuit of his goal, will they allow that?
I hope not, and will laugh when they try to spook me about Corbyn the bogeyman.
Well I have always thought that anything legal and constitutional is fair game. This is presumably both and hence we shall see whether there is the will to emply equally legal and constitutional means to prevent it. At present those who dislike this measure are listening carefully for the cogs whirring inside the head of Dominic Grieve, I suspect.
Anything legal is fair game, I agree, just not all things legal are good ideas of course.
Mr. kle4, aye. It does seem like pro-EU MPs are pretending they just want to avoid no deal, rather than remaining, and right now it seems the Government is pretending it wants a deal, when it doesn't.
As a visceral reaction to the BBC breaking news page, however, there is huge resentment at this step being taken which smells a bit like undermining parliament but I accept that many leavers will be high-fiving at the news.
Only the thick leavers, the smarter ones will realise that such if successful such tactics are likely to be used again.
I don't think there are any smart leavers. Even our very own, logically consistent @Richard_Tyndall who I admire for the clarity of his thought nevertheless believes that pulling the house down around us is worth it because of some kind of indeterminate benefit in the long run. That is not the sign of anyone smart.
So the Queen's Speech gets voted down mid October. Then what?
Someone else needs to become PM..
I'm starting to think the best plan is a a very short VoNC where Boris is deposed, someone else revokes A50, announces a second referendum and then resigns for Boris to return.
As a visceral reaction to the BBC breaking news page, however, there is huge resentment at this step being taken which smells a bit like undermining parliament but I accept that many leavers will be high-fiving at the news.
Only the thick leavers, the smarter ones will realise that such if successful such tactics are likely to be used again.
I don't think there are any smart leavers. Even our very own, logically consistent @Richard_Tyndall who I admire for the clarity of his thought nevertheless believes that pulling the house down around us is worth it because of some kind of indeterminate benefit in the long run. That is not the sign of anyone smart.
he's pulling your house down not his
that is smart
I think you’ve confused him with one of the many expat Brexiteers.
I wonder whether the EU will negotiate with a government that has shut down democracy to force through a policy it has no mandate to implement.
given they removed a sitting PM in Italy and installed their own man,I dont think that will worry them too much.
Didn’t the Italian President do that?
the President was just the mechanism
And that’s why there is a huge movement in Italy to take the country out of the EU, of course.
Italians want a reformed EU, thats why Salvini is pushing his luck.
Yep, they want to stay in the EU. As do the Greeks, of course.
and they also want reform.
Great. It’s a shame the UK won’t be able to help them to secure it.
We just lost faith in it, our influence wasnt very influential. Its largely a result of staying out of the Euro.
Total nonsense. We influenced considerable areas of activity, and would have continued to do so. We will now be rule takers, as we will still need to follow 99% of EU rules to be able to continue to trade with them. Brexit really is a thickwit's charter
I wonder whether the EU will negotiate with a government that has shut down democracy to force through a policy it has no mandate to implement.
given they removed a sitting PM in Italy and installed their own man,I dont think that will worry them too much.
Didn’t the Italian President do that?
the President was just the mechanism
And that’s why there is a huge movement in Italy to take the country out of the EU, of course.
Italians want a reformed EU, thats why Salvini is pushing his luck.
Yep, they want to stay in the EU. As do the Greeks, of course.
and they also want reform.
Great. It’s a shame the UK won’t be able to help them to secure it.
We just lost faith in it, our influence wasnt very influential. Its largely a result of staying out of the Euro.
Total nonsense. We influenced considerable areas of activity, and would have continued to do so. We will now be rule takers, as we will still need to follow 99% of EU rules to be able to continue to trade with them. Brexit really is a thickwit's charter
Its disingenuous to pretend the mps will engage in a renegotiation if they have no interest in it achieving anything and for many of them just a pretence. Trumpeting that as labour policy is misleading when as far as I can see the bulk of them wont give a crap about it and only care about remaining. They should be just asking for a deal plus remain referendum, with them backing remain, rather than wasting time on a negotiation most of their mps dont care about and wont back.
Nobody's saying the MPs will engage in a renegotiation. The plan is that the *government* will engage in a renegotiation. The MPs just have to vote for them to do it and vote for the result to be enacted subject to a referendum, which they would.
They could just have a referendum on TMay's deal, but if you're a Prime Minister and you think TMay made the wrong trade-offs, why would you do that???
This line of criticism makes no sense. I think what's happening here is that Labour's position has been ridiculous for so long and in so many different ways that now they've finally stumbled on a position that's no longer ridiculous, nobody can get their heads around it.
As a visceral reaction to the BBC breaking news page, however, there is huge resentment at this step being taken which smells a bit like undermining parliament but I accept that many leavers will be high-fiving at the news.
Only the thick leavers, the smarter ones will realise that such if successful such tactics are likely to be used again.
I don't think there are any smart leavers. Even our very own, logically consistent @Richard_Tyndall who I admire for the clarity of his thought nevertheless believes that pulling the house down around us is worth it because of some kind of indeterminate benefit in the long run. That is not the sign of anyone smart.
he's pulling your house down not his
that is smart
To channel @malcolmg here, be clear he is not pulling my house(s) down.
As a visceral reaction to the BBC breaking news page, however, there is huge resentment at this step being taken which smells a bit like undermining parliament but I accept that many leavers will be high-fiving at the news.
Only the thick leavers, the smarter ones will realise that such if successful such tactics are likely to be used again.
I don't think there are any smart leavers. Even our very own, logically consistent @Richard_Tyndall who I admire for the clarity of his thought nevertheless believes that pulling the house down around us is worth it because of some kind of indeterminate benefit in the long run. That is not the sign of anyone smart.
he's pulling your house down not his
that is smart
To channel @malcolmg here, be clear he is not pulling my house(s) down.
So the Queen's Speech gets voted down mid October. Then what?
Presumably the aim is that it will never happen. GE on 24 October?
Queens speech voted down FTPA I believe unless it’s a specific exclusion, so VONC then14 days so election probably after 31st unless new govt can be formed.
I was starting to give Boris the benefit of the doubt as it seemed increasingly clear that "do or die etc" was just a cover to keep the hardliners happy whilst beneath the surface the tinkering with the WA/PD etc took place and a revised deal got done.
Now I am not so sure! This feels deliberately inflammatory and surely brings about a VONC next week that Boris knows he will possibly now lose - the strategy then being a November GE?
Grieve just confirmed on the BBC he would VONC the Govt if that is the only way to stop the Govt.
I wonder whether the EU will negotiate with a government that has shut down democracy to force through a policy it has no mandate to implement.
No point.
If parliament is prorogued, there is no time to pass the mythical renegotiated deal. Prorogation means No Deal is the plan, and the rest a smokescreen.
I never said they wouldn't vote for it I just think pushing labour official policy as nick palmer did is a bit disingenuous when, yes in my opinion, so many of its mps would not give a fig for the renegotiate bit and thus are selling a false prospectus.
You think it's disingenuous to say they're going to do something, which they are indeed going to do, because they don't care much about part of the thing that they're accurately telling you they're going to do???
Its disingenuous to pretend the mps will engage in a renegotiation if they have no interest in it achieving anything and for many of them just a pretence. Trumpeting that as labour policy is misleading when as far as I can see the bulk of them wont give a crap about it and only care about remaining. They should be just asking for a deal plus remain referendum, with them backing remain, rather than wasting time on a negotiation most of their mps dont care about and wont back.
To be clear I think the Johnsonites claiming to want a deal but only a unicorn deal while actually pursuing no deal to be just as disingenuous.
Vote Leave did not rule out No Deal, they did promise an end to free movement from the EU
This is effectively a lie. Vote leave did everything possible in the run up to the referendum to persuade voters there would be a deal short of actually point blank promising it.
Mr. eek, the problem with that is that Boris Johnson isn't fit to be in Cabinet.
Mr. Gate, yes and no. The timing is dubious, but it is common for Parliament to be suspended ahead of a Queen's Speech.
A bigger mistake, from the PM's perspective, may be that he's implicitly conceded that he's not confident of avoiding defeat in the Commons. That's a morale-booster for his adversaries.
As a visceral reaction to the BBC breaking news page, however, there is huge resentment at this step being taken which smells a bit like undermining parliament but I accept that many leavers will be high-fiving at the news.
Only the thick leavers, the smarter ones will realise that such if successful such tactics are likely to be used again.
I don't think there are any smart leavers. Even our very own, logically consistent @Richard_Tyndall who I admire for the clarity of his thought nevertheless believes that pulling the house down around us is worth it because of some kind of indeterminate benefit in the long run. That is not the sign of anyone smart.
he's pulling your house down not his
that is smart
To channel @malcolmg here, be clear he is not pulling my house(s) down.
then why are you worried ?
I am interested in politics because I believe it has the capacity to make peoples' lives better. This is demonstrably making peoples' lives worse and, as I have said from pre-June 2016, the peoples' lives who it will make worse are amongst those who can least afford it.
Not like us lot tapping away at 10am of a Wednesday morning all doing very well thank you. Not us lot. The people who are genuinely struggling. They are the ones who are to be sacrificed at the altar of some mythical "sovereignty" and the fantasies of the idle rich on the one hand, or myopic extremists on the other.
So, thanks to Boris, in the eyes of the public "suspending parliament" is now a reasonable, normal thing. Chilling.
It's more normal than overturning a public vote I'd say. I dont think there will be too many complaints from the majority given the underhand tactics used by so many MPs up until today.
I wonder whether the EU will negotiate with a government that has shut down democracy to force through a policy it has no mandate to implement.
given they removed a sitting PM in Italy and installed their own man,I dont think that will worry them too much.
Didn’t the Italian President do that?
the President was just the mechanism
And that’s why there is a huge movement in Italy to take the country out of the EU, of course.
Italians want a reformed EU, thats why Salvini is pushing his luck.
Yep, they want to stay in the EU. As do the Greeks, of course.
and they also want reform.
Great. It’s a shame the UK won’t be able to help them to secure it.
We just lost faith in it, our influence wasnt very influential. Its largely a result of staying out of the Euro.
I guess I never saw the cowering, weak, uninfluential UK you did.
not so much cowering and weak as inconsequential. Once the Euro was set up interests were bound to diverge and the existing set up was under strain.
I never regarded us as inconsequential. But if we are, that’s another reason to believe the EU will not agree any meaningful changes to the WA.
The only thing will shift them is trade and avoiding the hassle. But as you rightly point out they may well be far beyond that. October will be the fun month, this board will go ape, I hope Mike hasnt booked a meet up soon , it could end in a pub brawl :-)
So, thanks to Boris, in the eyes of the public "suspending parliament" is now a reasonable, normal thing. Chilling.
It's more normal than overturning a public vote I'd say. I dont think there will be too many complaints from the majority given the underhand tactics used by so many MPs up until today.
Its disingenuous to pretend the mps will engage in a renegotiation if they have no interest in it achieving anything and for many of them just a pretence. Trumpeting that as labour policy is misleading when as far as I can see the bulk of them wont give a crap about it and only care about remaining. They should be just asking for a deal plus remain referendum, with them backing remain, rather than wasting time on a negotiation most of their mps dont care about and wont back.
Nobody's saying the MPs will engage in a renegotiation. The plan is that the *government* will engage in a renegotiation. The MPs just have to vote for them to do it and vote for the result to be enacted subject to a referendum, which they would.
They could just have a referendum on TMay's deal, but if you're a Prime Minister and you think TMay made the wrong trade-offs, why would you do that???
This line of criticism makes no sense. I think what's happening here is that Labour's position has been ridiculous for so long and in so many different ways that now they've finally stumbled on a position that's no longer ridiculous, nobody can get their heads around it.
It makes perfect sense. I'm not critical of the official labour policy, I'm critical that I think most of its mps dont really support that policy and have no intention of actually following it since they are not waiting for the renegotiation to make up their minds. Corbyn and co would but so many of its MPs do not, so if they stand under that policy they are being false.
So say parliament takes back control and forces an extension on Boris, by replacing him or otherwise, and Boris runs for election on his current position of "Renegotiate but prepared to back No Deal".
Do we think that passes the Farage test, or does he have to drop the renegotiate part until the candidate nomination deadline has passed?
So, thanks to Boris, in the eyes of the public "suspending parliament" is now a reasonable, normal thing. Chilling.
It's more normal than overturning a public vote I'd say. I dont think there will be too many complaints from the majority given the underhand tactics used by so many MPs up until today.
This nonsense is getting tiresome.
So is your concept of 'chilling', incredibly naive.
So the Queen's Speech gets voted down mid October. Then what?
Someone else needs to become PM..
I'm starting to think the best plan is a a very short VoNC where Boris is deposed, someone else revokes A50, announces a second referendum and then resigns for Boris to return.
I always felt Boris would be a good One Nation PM, and aside from Brexit, the early signs are good. Shame we couldnt have got this mess all sorted before he got the top job. I could see him staying as Tory leader for the foreseeable, even if VONC'd in favour of a GONU or Corbyn led admnistration - so could well find himself PM again depending on when the GE actually happens.
So say parliament takes back control and forces an extension on Boris, by replacing him or otherwise, and Boris runs for election on his current position of "Renegotiate but prepared to back No Deal".
Do we think that passes the Farage test, or does he have to drop the renegotiate part until the candidate nomination deadline has passed?
Drop renegotiation. His big push was that hed succeed with thst now. Even if he says the failure was not his fault but of mps forcing his hand, the chance was had and the time has passed.
It makes perfect sense. I'm not critical of the official labour policy, I'm critical that I think most of its mps dont really support that policy and have no intention of actually following it. Corbyn and co would but so many of its MPs do not, so if they stand under that policy they are being false.
They have every intention of following it. Following it consists of voting for it, which they would do, as I think you've already agreed (???). You're complaining that they would vote for it without being enthusiastic deep in their hearts about part of what they're voting for.
If Boris drags HM into this sordid business then it will result in the biggest constitution crisis since the abdication - probably even outdoing that.
For some that's a feature not a bug. We have move into a world of opportunistic disaster socialists, brexiteers, nationalists, republicans, empire nostalgists, free marketeers, racists and no doubt others I can't think of atm.
Surely the title 'prime minister' is rendered meaningless if Boris closes down parliament. What will he choose to call himself instead? 'Citizen One' perhaps?
Prem finances, by and large sustainable actually. One can make an argument for a salary cap (One could make it ex UEFA, Champions League revenue and even ex owner equity injection) - but actually there aren't too many issues.
The real problem comes at Championship level and I presume below
'The main driver of losses is poor cost control, with clubs paying out as much as £202 in wages for every £100 of income.' That's completely unsustainable in any world and a cap of say 52% of income would work. If owners want to make a "push for the Prem" then an injection of equity should be the only way to achieve this rather than a loan to the club with multiple and complex charges on the ground or whatnot.
In essence a system that borrows from elements of the NFL cap but that allows owners to 'push' with equity injections, not loans.
Bury supposedly had some players on £500k a year....their average was well over £100k a year in a league where the average is £50-60k. And this for a club that gets about 4000 people to watch them play.
If rather than prorogue Parliament, Boris chooses to frustrate the legislature's efforts at hijacking Brexit by putting in place 1,000 stout yeoman prepared to be a "Peer for a Year", then I am happy to put my name forward.....
Mr. kle4, aye. It does seem like pro-EU MPs are pretending they just want to avoid no deal, rather than remaining, and right now it seems the Government is pretending it wants a deal, when it doesn't.
As a visceral reaction to the BBC breaking news page, however, there is huge resentment at this step being taken which smells a bit like undermining parliament but I accept that many leavers will be high-fiving at the news.
Only the thick leavers, the smarter ones will realise that such if successful such tactics are likely to be used again.
I don't think there are any smart leavers. Even our very own, logically consistent @Richard_Tyndall who I admire for the clarity of his thought nevertheless believes that pulling the house down around us is worth it because of some kind of indeterminate benefit in the long run. That is not the sign of anyone smart.
he's pulling your house down not his
that is smart
To channel @malcolmg here, be clear he is not pulling my house(s) down.
then why are you worried ?
I am interested in politics because I believe it has the capacity to make peoples' lives better. This is demonstrably making peoples' lives worse and, as I have said from pre-June 2016, the peoples' lives who it will make worse are amongst those who can least afford it.
Not like us lot tapping away at 10am of a Wednesday morning all doing very well thank you. Not us lot. The people who are genuinely struggling. They are the ones who are to be sacrificed at the altar of some mythical "sovereignty" and the fantasies of the idle rich on the one hand, or myopic extremists on the other.
some peoples lives have got better in the last 20 years and most people have simply stagnated. The system as it was wasnt taking eveyone with it. Those of us who pointed this out got short shrift . If people arent seeing progress then why would they vote for a system that doesnt benefit them ?
Dominic Grieve furious and almost in tears on the radio. Calls Boris’s actions unconstitutional and says Parliament will VONC if necessary.
I wish hed stop with the almost in tears thing. So many times and it just looks like an act, especially from a man happy to bring us this point when he thought he would win.
Grieve ought to have realised that half a loaf is better than no loaf at all.
Comments
I hope not, and will laugh when they try to spook me about Corbyn the bogeyman.
If parliament is prorogued, there is no time to pass the mythical renegotiated deal. Prorogation means No Deal is the plan, and the rest a smokescreen.
Set the controls for the heart of the sun...
I'd conclude that Johnson's frit of the Commons and thinks there's a serious risk of losing if it sits. That doesn't necessarily mean he doesn't want a deal.
Mr. Gate, it's incredible to have a very divided body politic but claim only one side is to blame. Kaleds and Thals spring to mind.
Edited extra bit: hmm. Interesting comment, Dr. Foxy. Seems especially strange as there has been some movement from the EU recently. Perhaps Johnson is afraid of succeeding in renegotiating.
What do you expect Remainers to do? Capitulate? They have been thrown no bone, no meat, nothing.
50% of the country has been ignored since 2016.
It has just raised the political temperature off the scale
https://www.theguardian.com/football/2019/may/22/premier-league-finances-club-guide-2017-18-accounts-manchester-united-city
Prem finances, by and large sustainable actually. One can make an argument for a salary cap (One could make it ex UEFA, Champions League revenue and even ex owner equity injection) - but actually there aren't too many issues.
The real problem comes at Championship level and I presume below
https://www.dailymail.co.uk/sport/football/article-7034591/Championship-clubs-combined-operating-loss-510m-year.html
'The main driver of losses is poor cost control, with clubs paying out as much as £202 in wages for every £100 of income.' That's completely unsustainable in any world and a cap of say 52% of income would work. If owners want to make a "push for the Prem" then an injection of equity should be the only way to achieve this rather than a loan to the club with multiple and complex charges on the ground or whatnot.
In essence a system that borrows from elements of the NFL cap but that allows owners to 'push' with equity injections, not loans.
In particular, the Labour leadership needs to decide whether its actual policy is letting Boris own a "disastrous Tory no deal" or doing something to prevent it. (As opposed to whatever iteration of "we have splinters in our arse" they're using today).
Personally and selfishly (as someone relatively well off and with a big enough veg patch), letting Boris own it gets more attractive by the day: it neutralises all the old bollocks about traitors and quislings and Respecting the Will of the People, and if remainer forecasts of the consequences are anything like correct is more likely to lead to a longer-term reintegration and no Tory govt for years when it all goes tits-up. But I'm not convinced that's in the short to medium term national interest.
that is smart
I'm starting to think the best plan is a a very short VoNC where Boris is deposed, someone else revokes A50, announces a second referendum and then resigns for Boris to return.
They could just have a referendum on TMay's deal, but if you're a Prime Minister and you think TMay made the wrong trade-offs, why would you do that???
This line of criticism makes no sense. I think what's happening here is that Labour's position has been ridiculous for so long and in so many different ways that now they've finally stumbled on a position that's no longer ridiculous, nobody can get their heads around it.
"This move may well make other ways of stopping No Deal impossible"
I was expecting to hear howls of outrage from some quarters but nope.
then you might understand how daft that statement is.
Now I am not so sure! This feels deliberately inflammatory and surely brings about a VONC next week that Boris knows he will possibly now lose - the strategy then being a November GE?
Grieve just confirmed on the BBC he would VONC the Govt if that is the only way to stop the Govt.
Lots of speculation, anger and turmoil, but no clarity at all
Boris to make statement about 10.15
One thing is likely that in any GE Boris will have a deal with Farage if not the EU
https://www.theguardian.com/politics/2019/jul/29/what-vote-leave-leaders-really-said-about-no-deal-brexit
Mr. Gate, yes and no. The timing is dubious, but it is common for Parliament to be suspended ahead of a Queen's Speech.
A bigger mistake, from the PM's perspective, may be that he's implicitly conceded that he's not confident of avoiding defeat in the Commons. That's a morale-booster for his adversaries.
Not like us lot tapping away at 10am of a Wednesday morning all doing very well thank you. Not us lot. The people who are genuinely struggling. They are the ones who are to be sacrificed at the altar of some mythical "sovereignty" and the fantasies of the idle rich on the one hand, or myopic extremists on the other.
Do we think that passes the Farage test, or does he have to drop the renegotiate part until the candidate nomination deadline has passed?
A Churchill parallel....
We have move into a world of opportunistic disaster socialists, brexiteers, nationalists, republicans, empire nostalgists, free marketeers, racists and no doubt others I can't think of atm.
It's all a bit..disastrous.
Powerful line from Joanna Cherry on BBC News. I'm sure it will resonate in Scotland.
The Conservative party and plays in blue
https://www.paulmasterton.org.uk/news/brexit-withdrawal-deal
"Both groups agree they don't like the deal, but they want completely opposite outcomes. Both groups obviously cannot be right. "