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politicalbetting.com » Blog Archive » The BJohnson bounce and the LD recovery add to the pressure of

SystemSystem Posts: 12,171
edited August 2019 in General

imagepoliticalbetting.com » Blog Archive » The BJohnson bounce and the LD recovery add to the pressure of the pressure on Corbyn

Latest @IpsosMORI with changes on GE2017CON 34% (-9.5)LAB 24% (-17)LDs 20% (+12.4)BREX 9% (+9)

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Comments

  • The_TaxmanThe_Taxman Posts: 2,979
    First!
  • RobDRobD Posts: 59,936
    edited August 2019
    Changes from the last poll:

    Con +8
    Lab n/c
    LD -2
    BXP -3

    :o

    edit: slightly overestimated the BXP decline...
  • DecrepitJohnLDecrepitJohnL Posts: 13,300
    Either the Boris bounce or Swinson's LD recovery will look different once the polls close in Brecon & Radnor. Tomorrow's headlines will be that one or other new leader is a busted flush only a week into the job. Even if they are still ahead of Labour.
  • CorrectHorseBatteryCorrectHorseBattery Posts: 21,436
    edited August 2019
    IPSOS pointed out that Johnson's lead over Labour is a lot smaller when displayed by all voters, rather than just those who would most likely vote. I wonder how other polls are impacted.

    But regardless, the reason this is important is that turnout will play a big part in any election result. If Labour somehow finds a way to get its turnout up again and gets it voters energised (I assume they think Momentum will help with that - to be fair they did hold Peterborough) they can close a gap.

    I'm not sure personal leader ratings will be especially important when this election will basically be about Brexit vs no Brexit. Labour will presumably be trying to move the debate onto other issues. Corbyn has never polled well apart from inside elections, where he turned his rating positive before during a campaign - I assume he hopes he can repeat that.

    I am also not entirely convinced the voters who have moved to the Lib Dems/Green won't come back. Historically the Green vote always gets squeezed and outside Brexit, I'm sure most of these people prefer Corbyn's other policies.

    The priority for Labour must be second ref in all circumstances (which they now do support) in their manifesto and ensuring Remain is an option. I am still not convinced Labour's position in that referendum matters if Remain is an option anyway but it surely can't hurt to back Remain in all cases. The key is Labour/Tory marginals, where the tactical question will have to be "No Deal vs referendum to Remain?"
  • Corbyn is jimmys right calf...
  • dixiedeandixiedean Posts: 29,414
    Tbf, the England selectors adopted a positive, optimistic outlook when picking Anderson. They firmly believed very hard that he would be fit, and he would destroy our foreign foes, shortly before he catastrophically broke down.
    That metaphor machine is at it again.
  • Time to move on from Anderson now I feel. He is just too liable to break down.
  • NigelbNigelb Posts: 71,238

    Corbyn is jimmys right calf...

    Johnson is the England management.

    Except more accomplished at bullshitting.
  • FrancisUrquhartFrancisUrquhart Posts: 82,129
    edited August 2019
    LAB 24% (-17)

    Good job they didn't decide to hold another JezFest....It would be TheJezziah alone in a field.
  • Nigelb said:

    Corbyn is jimmys right calf...

    Johnson is the England management.

    Except more accomplished at bullshitting.
    The ones that just won the World Cup you mean?
  • NigelbNigelb Posts: 71,238

    Nigelb said:

    Corbyn is jimmys right calf...

    Johnson is the England management.

    Except more accomplished at bullshitting.
    The ones that just won the World Cup you mean?
    That would be the team.
  • justin124justin124 Posts: 11,527
    Today's poll would imply 35 gains from Labour - partially offset by 13 losses to the LibDems and 10 to the SNP. The net gain of 12 seats would take the Tories to 330 - slightly lower than Cameron's 2015 total.
  • Nigelb said:

    Nigelb said:

    Corbyn is jimmys right calf...

    Johnson is the England management.

    Except more accomplished at bullshitting.
    The ones that just won the World Cup you mean?
    That would be the team.
    The management were crucial to that victory. From overhauling the selection to the brain trust planning the tactics.
  • ByronicByronic Posts: 3,578
    So the Bojo Tories are taking votes off the LDs and Greens?!

    Duh?
  • FrancisUrquhartFrancisUrquhart Posts: 82,129
    edited August 2019
    This is where England miss an Archer and/or a left armer. We are now bowling 3 of a similar pace and style.
  • Why are these changes different?

    twitter.com/britainelects/status/1156908313872949250?s=21

    Cos OGH is comparing to 2017 GE.
  • ByronicByronic Posts: 3,578
    Who are these 20% who still think Corbyn would be a good prime minister? Or are they Tories having a giraffe?

    Even my most Corbynite friends have now abandoned Corbyn, and gone into post-Corbyn mode. I don't know ANYONE who doesn't want him gone, sharpish, and I have a lot of leftwing pals.

    Who and where are these die-hard Corbynistas?
  • Corbyn is jimmys right calf...

    Are you setting up a PB fantasy league ? I reckon I will win it this time as the last two seasons I was distracted by Liverpool reaching the Champions League final, this season I will not be as distracted, as I am used to it now.

    Also apologies for Harvey Elliott, he's only 16, and it happened when he was at Fulham, Klopp will sort him out, he won't turn into as classy as the spanner/gunner Jack Wilshire.
  • Byronic said:

    Who are these 20% who still think Corbyn would be a good prime minister? Or are they Tories having a giraffe?

    Even my most Corbynite friends have now abandoned Corbyn, and gone into post-Corbyn mode. I don't know ANYONE who doesn't want him gone, sharpish, and I have a lot of leftwing pals.

    Who and where are these die-hard Corbynistas?

    Have you not seen some of the posters on here. Jezza is still the messiah.
  • GallowgateGallowgate Posts: 19,468

    Why are these changes different?

    twitter.com/britainelects/status/1156908313872949250?s=21

    Cos OGH is comparing to 2017 GE.
    But they are different to those correcting him too.
  • Nigelb said:

    Corbyn is jimmys right calf...

    Johnson is the England management.

    Except more accomplished at bullshitting.
    The ones that just won the World Cup you mean?
    Under Bayliss we are great at ODI/T20 stuff but at Test cricket we're a bit rubbish.
  • Philip_ThompsonPhilip_Thompson Posts: 65,826
    edited August 2019
    dixiedean said:

    Tbf, the England selectors adopted a positive, optimistic outlook when picking Anderson. They firmly believed very hard that he would be fit, and he would destroy our foreign foes, shortly before he catastrophically broke down.
    That metaphor machine is at it again.

    That's OK though, we just need to believe in England and adapt. We can move on from Anderson to Archer, just because in the past we have routinely used Anderson does not mean we need a Deal with Anderson in perpetuity. We can say sorry but No Deal to Anderson and bring new faces like Archer in instead.
  • ByronicByronic Posts: 3,578

    Byronic said:

    Who are these 20% who still think Corbyn would be a good prime minister? Or are they Tories having a giraffe?

    Even my most Corbynite friends have now abandoned Corbyn, and gone into post-Corbyn mode. I don't know ANYONE who doesn't want him gone, sharpish, and I have a lot of leftwing pals.

    Who and where are these die-hard Corbynistas?

    Have you not seen some of the posters on here. Jezza is still the messiah.
    There are some die-hard Jezbollah on PB?! I thought even the most militant had accepted he was a dud. Cuh!
  • justin124justin124 Posts: 11,527
    Those figures are wrong Labour is unchanged - Tories are up 8 % - Lib Dems have dropped 2% - Bxt Pty has dropped 3%. - Greens down 2%.
  • NigelbNigelb Posts: 71,238

    Why are these changes different?

    twitter.com/britainelects/status/1156908313872949250?s=21

    Cos OGH is comparing to 2017 GE.
    dixiedean said:

    Tbf, the England selectors adopted a positive, optimistic outlook when picking Anderson. They firmly believed very hard that he would be fit, and he would destroy our foreign foes, shortly before he catastrophically broke down.
    That metaphor machine is at it again.

    That's OK though, we just need to believe in England and adapt. We can move on from Anderson to Archer, just because in the past we have routinely used Anderson does not mean we need a Deal with Anderson in perpetuity. We can say sorry but No Deal to Anderson and bring new faces like Archer in instead.
    Not halfway through a game, you can't.

    The EU tends to go by the rulebook, too.
  • dixiedeandixiedean Posts: 29,414

    dixiedean said:

    Tbf, the England selectors adopted a positive, optimistic outlook when picking Anderson. They firmly believed very hard that he would be fit, and he would destroy our foreign foes, shortly before he catastrophically broke down.
    That metaphor machine is at it again.

    That's OK though, we just need to believe in England and adapt. We can move on from Anderson to Archer, just because in the past we have routinely used Anderson does not mean we need a Deal with Anderson in perpetuity. We can say sorry but No Deal to Anderson and bring new faces like Archer in instead.
    Agreed. But it has left us rather stumped in the meantime.
  • Richard_NabaviRichard_Nabavi Posts: 30,821
    justin124 said:

    Today's poll would imply 35 gains from Labour - partially offset by 13 losses to the LibDems and 10 to the SNP. The net gain of 12 seats would take the Tories to 330 - slightly lower than Cameron's 2015 total.

    Yes, pace @HYUFD , it's not exactly a landslide, is it? And that's assuming no adverse movements as the realities of the Boris approach begin to hove into view.
  • tlg86tlg86 Posts: 26,176
    Some of the 05 team looking better than others...

    https://twitter.com/WisdenCricket/status/1156910208985305088
  • MikeSmithsonMikeSmithson Posts: 7,382
    You calculate swings by comparing to what happened at the last general election not the last poll.
  • ydoethurydoethur Posts: 71,426
    dixiedean said:

    dixiedean said:

    Tbf, the England selectors adopted a positive, optimistic outlook when picking Anderson. They firmly believed very hard that he would be fit, and he would destroy our foreign foes, shortly before he catastrophically broke down.
    That metaphor machine is at it again.

    That's OK though, we just need to believe in England and adapt. We can move on from Anderson to Archer, just because in the past we have routinely used Anderson does not mean we need a Deal with Anderson in perpetuity. We can say sorry but No Deal to Anderson and bring new faces like Archer in instead.
    Agreed. But it has left us rather stumped in the meantime.
    It was a bowled call that has obviously gone wrong.
  • justin124 said:

    Those figures are wrong Labour is unchanged - Tories are up 8 % - Lib Dems have dropped 2% - Bxt Pty has dropped 3%. - Greens down 2%.
    Ipsos MORI have made some methodological changes, so they aren't comparing to last month per se.
  • You calculate swings by comparing to what happened at the last general election not the last poll.

    Is that going to be the standard in thread headers going forward then?
  • Byronic said:

    Who are these 20% who still think Corbyn would be a good prime minister? Or are they Tories having a giraffe?

    Even my most Corbynite friends have now abandoned Corbyn, and gone into post-Corbyn mode. I don't know ANYONE who doesn't want him gone, sharpish, and I have a lot of leftwing pals.

    Who and where are these die-hard Corbynistas?

    Firstly, there plainly are true believers who just straight up like the guy and will stay with him in the bunker as the bombs rain down.

    Secondly, even if you are a Labour backer who wants him gone, that doesn't necessarily mean you think he'd be a bad PM. Some such people may feel he's been rather unfairly maligned over antisemitism and other matters such that he's holed below the waterline and can't win... but if he did win, he's got basically the right ideas for making the country better and would be a good thing.

    Thirdly, there are plenty of people who are tribal and don't pay much attention to politics. If you're a tribal Labour supporter man and boy, then the Labour leader would be a good PM - simple as that.
  • Richard_NabaviRichard_Nabavi Posts: 30,821
    edited August 2019
    Byronic said:

    Who are these 20% who still think Corbyn would be a good prime minister? Or are they Tories having a giraffe?

    Even my most Corbynite friends have now abandoned Corbyn, and gone into post-Corbyn mode. I don't know ANYONE who doesn't want him gone, sharpish, and I have a lot of leftwing pals.

    Who and where are these die-hard Corbynistas?

    My various young relatives, who supported Corbyn in 2017, now look very sheepish when I ask them if they are still supporting him. I think they've all gone LibDem.

    I seem to recall getting a lot of stick when I opined here that the youthful enthusiasm for Corbyn in the run-up to the 2017 election was a passing fad that would look very old-hat in a couple of years. It was the Cleggasm all over again.
  • NickPalmerNickPalmer Posts: 21,534
    edited August 2019
    Byronic said:

    Who are these 20% who still think Corbyn would be a good prime minister? Or are they Tories having a giraffe?

    Even my most Corbynite friends have now abandoned Corbyn, and gone into post-Corbyn mode. I don't know ANYONE who doesn't want him gone, sharpish, and I have a lot of leftwing pals.

    Who and where are these die-hard Corbynistas?

    Me for a start, but I know plenty more. Basically we're a fifth of the electorate, to which is added the current number of people who vote Labour for other reasons. As this poll shows, that number is not varying much, and the Boris bounce is coming from other parties. As you'd expect - it's hard to imagine the Corbynista who is suddenly persuaded by Boris.
  • Nigelb said:

    Why are these changes different?

    twitter.com/britainelects/status/1156908313872949250?s=21

    Cos OGH is comparing to 2017 GE.
    dixiedean said:

    Tbf, the England selectors adopted a positive, optimistic outlook when picking Anderson. They firmly believed very hard that he would be fit, and he would destroy our foreign foes, shortly before he catastrophically broke down.
    That metaphor machine is at it again.

    That's OK though, we just need to believe in England and adapt. We can move on from Anderson to Archer, just because in the past we have routinely used Anderson does not mean we need a Deal with Anderson in perpetuity. We can say sorry but No Deal to Anderson and bring new faces like Archer in instead.
    Not halfway through a game, you can't.

    The EU tends to go by the rulebook, too.
    That's a silly point. We will have to cope as best as we can with the bowlers we have then slip in Archer at the next opportunity.
  • Well well well

    If a deal between the UK and EU cannot be reached:

    38% support leaving the European Union without a deal, whereas 50% oppose. 67% of Conservative voters support this outcome but 74% of Labour voters oppose.

    50% support delaying the UK leaving until an agreement can be reached, 37% oppose. 62% of Conservatives oppose this outcome and 75% of Labour voters support it.

    56% support a General Election to elect a new parliament, 29% oppose. 87% of Labour voters and 71% of Lib Dems support this outcome but a majority of Conservatives (55%) oppose.
  • ydoethurydoethur Posts: 71,426
    tlg86 said:

    Some of the 05 team looking better than others...

    https://twitter.com/WisdenCricket/status/1156910208985305088

    Hoggard's put on a few pounds, hasn't he?

    Interesting to reflect that one of those is still playing cricket, albeit not for the First XI at the moment. Presumably Trescothick is turning out for Somerset 2nds as well?
  • FrancisUrquhartFrancisUrquhart Posts: 82,129
    edited August 2019
    tlg86 said:

    Some of the 05 team looking better than others...

    twitter.com/WisdenCricket/status/1156910208985305088

    Simon Jones doesn't appear to have aged at all.
  • ydoethur said:

    tlg86 said:

    Some of the 05 team looking better than others...

    https://twitter.com/WisdenCricket/status/1156910208985305088

    Hoggard's put on a few pounds, hasn't he?

    Interesting to reflect that one of those is still playing cricket, albeit not for the First XI at the moment. Presumably Trescothick is turning out for Somerset 2nds as well?
    No Tres, The worse than Mark Reckless Kevin Pietersen, Geraint Jones, and Andrew Flintoff, surprised the last one wasn't there.
  • RobDRobD Posts: 59,936
    edited August 2019

    You calculate swings by comparing to what happened at the last general election not the last poll.

    Is that going to be the standard in thread headers going forward then?
    It might be interesting, but time consuming, to list both change from previous poll and previous election.
  • leslie48leslie48 Posts: 33
    Corbyn's Labour resembles the final days of 'Downfall' where the inner circles of Momentum, his Stalinist Clique of advisers and NEC play the shouting role of defending the great Leader, while the cowards of moderate Labour hang around in corridors unable to speak the truth of the collapse of once great party. The Corbyn Cult has been like a maggot which has entered the party three yrs ago & left it enfeebled, ugly, unpopular and just a protest only group while true power remains as always with the clever Conservative boys.
  • RobD said:

    You calculate swings by comparing to what happened at the last general election not the last poll.

    Is that going to be the standard in thread headers going forward then?
    It might be interesting, but time consuming, to list both change from previous poll and previous election.
    As a general rule, the PB style guide is not to do the changes from the last poll if there has been a methodology change.
  • GallowgateGallowgate Posts: 19,468
    justin124 said:

    Those figures are wrong Labour is unchanged - Tories are up 8 % - Lib Dems have dropped 2% - Bxt Pty has dropped 3%. - Greens down 2%.
    Nope.

    https://twitter.com/keiranpedley/status/1156890555982471168?s=21
  • 99 for 4
  • 99 for 4

    Hold your horses...
  • RobDRobD Posts: 59,936

    justin124 said:

    Those figures are wrong Labour is unchanged - Tories are up 8 % - Lib Dems have dropped 2% - Bxt Pty has dropped 3%. - Greens down 2%.
    Nope.

    https://twitter.com/keiranpedley/status/1156890555982471168?s=21
    Justin is right. Those are the correct changes from the previous poll. How you interpret them is another matter.
  • Either the Boris bounce or Swinson's LD recovery will look different once the polls close in Brecon & Radnor. Tomorrow's headlines will be that one or other new leader is a busted flush only a week into the job. Even if they are still ahead of Labour.

    I doubt it no matter the B & R result
  • NigelbNigelb Posts: 71,238
    edited August 2019
    Woakes gets Head...


    ...in from of a crowd of 20,000.
  • Tissue_PriceTissue_Price Posts: 9,039

    You calculate swings by comparing to what happened at the last general election not the last poll.

    Indeed. But you normally report polls with reference to the last one in the series cf. :smile:
    https://twitter.com/MSmithsonPB/status/1155209244930695170?s=20
  • stodgestodge Posts: 13,900
    Afternoon all :)

    Oh dear, we're reducing to arguing over the right changes and whether 24% is low or mid 20s. Some people need to get out and enjoy life - watch the racing at Goodwood, far more interesting and entertaining than the nonsense at Birmingham.

    The Mori poll continues the surge in support for the Conservatives since Boris Johnson became Prime Minister. The 34% is the highest Conservative poll rating for some months while the 9% TBP rating is the lowest for a while. The "split" of that 43% bloc vote is crucial - if it splits 25-18 the Conservatives are in trouble, if it splits 34-9 they are going well.

    The LDs continue to show a solid 20% or so in the polls and hopefully a good performance in Brecon & Radnor will aid Jo Swinson get some much needed publicity but the last week has all been about Boris and his largesse. If you promise the Sun, the Moon and the stars you'll get some takers.

    Yet making so many hostages to fortune works only until it's delivery time. I'm sure Boris has calculated the near certainty of a No Deal exit on 31/10 and his task is to mitigate the economic impact. No one will thank him for delivering Brexit if their business fails or their job is lost. He believes strong and profound economic stimulus is the answer - maybe but the reckoning will be in the borrowing, the increased deficit and debt which will come back to haunt some future PM if not Boris himself.
  • GallowgateGallowgate Posts: 19,468
    RobD said:

    justin124 said:

    Those figures are wrong Labour is unchanged - Tories are up 8 % - Lib Dems have dropped 2% - Bxt Pty has dropped 3%. - Greens down 2%.
    Nope.

    https://twitter.com/keiranpedley/status/1156890555982471168?s=21
    Justin is right. Those are the correct changes from the previous poll. How you interpret them is another matter.
    Depends if this poll matches the methodology of May. No idea...
  • RobDRobD Posts: 59,936

    RobD said:

    justin124 said:

    Those figures are wrong Labour is unchanged - Tories are up 8 % - Lib Dems have dropped 2% - Bxt Pty has dropped 3%. - Greens down 2%.
    Nope.

    https://twitter.com/keiranpedley/status/1156890555982471168?s=21
    Justin is right. Those are the correct changes from the previous poll. How you interpret them is another matter.
    Depends if this poll matches the methodology of May. No idea...
    It doesn’t really. The difference between between two numbers shouldn’t be up for debate. What it means is another matter....
  • RobD said:

    RobD said:

    justin124 said:

    Those figures are wrong Labour is unchanged - Tories are up 8 % - Lib Dems have dropped 2% - Bxt Pty has dropped 3%. - Greens down 2%.
    Nope.

    https://twitter.com/keiranpedley/status/1156890555982471168?s=21
    Justin is right. Those are the correct changes from the previous poll. How you interpret them is another matter.
    Depends if this poll matches the methodology of May. No idea...
    It doesn’t really. The difference between between two numbers shouldn’t be up for debate. What it means is another matter....
    But these days there are alternative facts....
  • justin124justin124 Posts: 11,527
    edited August 2019

    justin124 said:

    Those figures are wrong Labour is unchanged - Tories are up 8 % - Lib Dems have dropped 2% - Bxt Pty has dropped 3%. - Greens down 2%.
    Ipsos MORI have made some methodological changes, so they aren't comparing to last month per se.
    That would make nonsense of their last poll which had the Tories 2% ahead. They now seem to imply that actually Labour was 2% ahead! Are they now claiming that last month the LibDems were not - after all - on 22% but just 15%? Similarly the Brexit Party had not fallen to 12% but was still on 16%? If so, Ipsos Mori has credibility issues.
    Apparently they do not prompt for the Brexit Party - hence, its lower rating.

  • The priority for Labour must be second ref in all circumstances (which they now do support) in their manifesto and ensuring Remain is an option. I am still not convinced Labour's position in that referendum matters if Remain is an option anyway but it surely can't hurt to back Remain in all cases. The key is Labour/Tory marginals, where the tactical question will have to be "No Deal vs referendum to Remain?"

    This would be a pretty awful mushy middle option if there is an election pre-Brexit.

    In such an election, there would be two or three fairly clear options:

    1. Swinson's Lib Dems would presumably go with "revoke and remain" (i.e. this trumps 2016, and she's just not taking Britain out).

    2. If Johnson gets some kind of deal, he'll make it "give me a majority and leave on my terms".

    3. Farage (and/or Johnson if he has no negotiated option but Parliament blocks leaving with no deal) will say "leave now with no deal".

    All those three options have a "one bound and we're free" appeal. They are real, quick to implement answers to the current impasse. You can like them or not, but all allow people to move on.

    Against that, you seem to say Labour's position would be "we'll faff about for ages to get an ill-defined 'workers Brexit', then have a referendum campaign lasting another few months in which we'll half-heartedly campaign to leave, then either leave on that deal or presumably remain (although it's not clean as some of those voting to reject our deal don't want to remain but don't like our deal".

    It's messy and near-impossible to explain to voters. It's a recipe to be crushed between much clearer alternative messages on the big issue of the day.

  • RobDRobD Posts: 59,936
    Isn’t the stereotypical Labour voter lazy, and the Tory one up at the polling station at the crack of dawn? :p
  • Tories back up to 10 in Brecon and Radnorshire.
  • Smith out
  • RobD said:

    Isn’t the stereotypical Labour voter lazy, and the Tory one up at the polling station at the crack of dawn? :p
    That's what we said right before the 2017 general election.
  • Smith not out
  • Smith out

    Oh no he isn't.
  • RobDRobD Posts: 59,936
    stodge said:

    Afternoon all :)

    Oh dear, we're reducing to arguing over the right changes and whether 24% is low or mid 20s. Some people need to get out and enjoy life - watch the racing at Goodwood, far more interesting and entertaining than the nonsense at Birmingham.

    Welcome to PB, you must be new here. :p
  • The umpires are having a shocker today.
  • 105 for 5
  • 105 for 5

    The umpires should lose their match fees. Shocking
  • 105 for 5

    The umpires should lose their match fees. Shocking
    That one was an awful decision, it was so straight.
  • 148grss148grss Posts: 4,155
    https://twitter.com/thetorchsays/status/1156262913512022017

    Not the best start for "great campaigner" PM Johnson
  • The umpires are having a shocker today.

    Nah, apart from that last Joel Wilson decision.
  • TheWhiteRabbitTheWhiteRabbit Posts: 12,454
    148grss said:

    https://twitter.com/thetorchsays/status/1156262913512022017

    Not the best start for "great campaigner" PM Johnson

    I mean he was in NI attempted to restore power sharing...
  • Scott_PScott_P Posts: 51,453

    148grss said:

    https://twitter.com/thetorchsays/status/1156262913512022017

    Not the best start for "great campaigner" PM Johnson

    I mean he was in NI attempted to restore power sharing...
    He visited Brecon. He hid in a shop...
  • RobD said:

    Isn’t the stereotypical Labour voter lazy, and the Tory one up at the polling station at the crack of dawn? :p
    Backs to the wall, Labour are second to none at flushing unenthusiastic voters out of the estates at the last minute. Tories (and Lib Dems) can't match it. If it's 8.30pm, their reluctant supporters hunker down in the living room with a large Pinot Grigio, don't answer the door, and can't be shifted even if they do.

    Overall, a very good rule is high turnout in the day is good for the blues, high turnout first thing before and straight after work is good for the yellows, and a queue at the polling station with fifteen minutes to go is great for the reds.
  • SquareRootSquareRoot Posts: 7,095

    105 for 5

    The umpires should lose their match fees. Shocking
    Like to see you stand there and do better.
  • ydoethurydoethur Posts: 71,426
    My touch certainly has deserted me. We can't get bloody Steve Smith out even when the umpires help!

    He's going to nurse the convicts to a big score here.
  • BarnesianBarnesian Posts: 8,605
    stodge said:

    Afternoon all :)

    Oh dear, we're reducing to arguing over the right changes and whether 24% is low or mid 20s. Some people need to get out and enjoy life - watch the racing at Goodwood, far more interesting and entertaining than the nonsense at Birmingham.

    The Mori poll continues the surge in support for the Conservatives since Boris Johnson became Prime Minister. The 34% is the highest Conservative poll rating for some months while the 9% TBP rating is the lowest for a while. The "split" of that 43% bloc vote is crucial - if it splits 25-18 the Conservatives are in trouble, if it splits 34-9 they are going well.

    The LDs continue to show a solid 20% or so in the polls and hopefully a good performance in Brecon & Radnor will aid Jo Swinson get some much needed publicity but the last week has all been about Boris and his largesse. If you promise the Sun, the Moon and the stars you'll get some takers.

    Yet making so many hostages to fortune works only until it's delivery time. I'm sure Boris has calculated the near certainty of a No Deal exit on 31/10 and his task is to mitigate the economic impact. No one will thank him for delivering Brexit if their business fails or their job is lost. He believes strong and profound economic stimulus is the answer - maybe but the reckoning will be in the borrowing, the increased deficit and debt which will come back to haunt some future PM if not Boris himself.

    Johnson doesn't want a No Deal exit on 31st October. If necessary he will covertly facilitate parliament to prevent it so he can then blame parliament for frustrating the will of the people as he calls a general election.
  • philiphphiliph Posts: 4,704

    148grss said:

    https://twitter.com/thetorchsays/status/1156262913512022017

    Not the best start for "great campaigner" PM Johnson

    I mean he was in NI attempted to restore power sharing...
    You can't be serious!

    That implies either:
    cowardice / putting country before party / broken promise by liar.

    Delete as appropriate to fit your preconditioned bias and political view.
  • RobDRobD Posts: 59,936
    148grss said:

    https://twitter.com/thetorchsays/status/1156262913512022017

    Not the best start for "great campaigner" PM Johnson

    Sources?
  • TabmanTabman Posts: 1,046


    It's messy and near-impossible to explain to voters. It's a recipe to be crushed between much clearer alternative messages on the big issue of the day.

    One can only hope so.
  • I think this year's Strictly might be a bit shit, out of the first five celebrities I've only ever heard of one.
  • ydoethurydoethur Posts: 71,426

    105 for 5

    The umpires should lose their match fees. Shocking
    Like to see you stand there and do better.
    I'd be quite happy to see anyone stand there and do better!
  • SquareRootSquareRoot Posts: 7,095
    edited August 2019
    RobD said:

    148grss said:

    https://twitter.com/thetorchsays/status/1156262913512022017

    Not the best start for "great campaigner" PM Johnson

    Sources?
    that sounds similar to the lie about Obama dissing veterans.
  • NigelbNigelb Posts: 71,238

    I think this year's Strictly might be a bit shit, out of the first five celebrities I've only ever heard of one.

    Is that unusual ?
  • Nigelb said:

    I think this year's Strictly might be a bit shit, out of the first five celebrities I've only ever heard of one.

    Is that unusual ?
    Yes, normally I've heard of most of them.
  • Barnesian said:

    stodge said:

    Afternoon all :)

    Oh dear, we're reducing to arguing over the right changes and whether 24% is low or mid 20s. Some people need to get out and enjoy life - watch the racing at Goodwood, far more interesting and entertaining than the nonsense at Birmingham.

    The Mori poll continues the surge in support for the Conservatives since Boris Johnson became Prime Minister. The 34% is the highest Conservative poll rating for some months while the 9% TBP rating is the lowest for a while. The "split" of that 43% bloc vote is crucial - if it splits 25-18 the Conservatives are in trouble, if it splits 34-9 they are going well.

    The LDs continue to show a solid 20% or so in the polls and hopefully a good performance in Brecon & Radnor will aid Jo Swinson get some much needed publicity but the last week has all been about Boris and his largesse. If you promise the Sun, the Moon and the stars you'll get some takers.

    Yet making so many hostages to fortune works only until it's delivery time. I'm sure Boris has calculated the near certainty of a No Deal exit on 31/10 and his task is to mitigate the economic impact. No one will thank him for delivering Brexit if their business fails or their job is lost. He believes strong and profound economic stimulus is the answer - maybe but the reckoning will be in the borrowing, the increased deficit and debt which will come back to haunt some future PM if not Boris himself.

    Johnson doesn't want a No Deal exit on 31st October. If necessary he will covertly facilitate parliament to prevent it so he can then blame parliament for frustrating the will of the people as he calls a general election.
    +1. I absolutely think this is his plan. The one thing a non-existent majority gives you is the ability to blame others for your failure. Madman strategy - force Parliament to act to avert catastrophe, then loudly blame them for pulling the plug.
  • ByronicByronic Posts: 3,578
    "BJohnson" really isn't going to work. It takes twice as long to type as "Boris" or "Bojo", plus it looks idiotic and pedantic, and a bit incel.

    Apart from that, a fine neologism.
  • RobDRobD Posts: 59,936

    Nigelb said:

    I think this year's Strictly might be a bit shit, out of the first five celebrities I've only ever heard of one.

    Is that unusual ?
    Yes, normally I've heard of most of them.
    Maybe you are losing your touch? :p
  • MexicanpeteMexicanpete Posts: 28,388
    Scott_P said:

    148grss said:

    https://twitter.com/thetorchsays/status/1156262913512022017

    Not the best start for "great campaigner" PM Johnson

    I mean he was in NI attempted to restore power sharing...
    He visited Brecon. He hid in a shop...
    That is campaigning genius. If Mr Johnson restricts his campaigning to perfectly scripted on-message speeches and avoids ANY questions from journalists or worse still voters he will do very well. If he engages in ANY dialogue everything could unravel very quickly even against a no hoper like Corbyn.
  • RobDRobD Posts: 59,936

    RobD said:

    148grss said:

    https://twitter.com/thetorchsays/status/1156262913512022017

    Not the best start for "great campaigner" PM Johnson

    Sources?
    that sounds similar to the lie about Obama dissing veterans.

    And hardly an unbiased “news” outlet.
  • dixiedeandixiedean Posts: 29,414

    Well well well

    If a deal between the UK and EU cannot be reached:

    38% support leaving the European Union without a deal, whereas 50% oppose. 67% of Conservative voters support this outcome but 74% of Labour voters oppose.

    50% support delaying the UK leaving until an agreement can be reached, 37% oppose. 62% of Conservatives oppose this outcome and 75% of Labour voters support it.

    56% support a General Election to elect a new parliament, 29% oppose. 87% of Labour voters and 71% of Lib Dems support this outcome but a majority of Conservatives (55%) oppose.

    So the Tories are c10 points ahead. But it is Tory voters opposed to an election? Suggests a snap poll may not play too well. People simply don't like elections for purely party political reasons.
    Even if it is their own side doing it.
  • DecrepitJohnLDecrepitJohnL Posts: 13,300
    Sir Boris won the 2.15 at Nottingham. Is this an omen?
  • MexicanpeteMexicanpete Posts: 28,388

    Sir Boris won the 2.15 at Nottingham. Is this an omen?

    A knighthood or a victory? Or both?
  • RobDRobD Posts: 59,936
    dixiedean said:

    Well well well

    If a deal between the UK and EU cannot be reached:

    38% support leaving the European Union without a deal, whereas 50% oppose. 67% of Conservative voters support this outcome but 74% of Labour voters oppose.

    50% support delaying the UK leaving until an agreement can be reached, 37% oppose. 62% of Conservatives oppose this outcome and 75% of Labour voters support it.

    56% support a General Election to elect a new parliament, 29% oppose. 87% of Labour voters and 71% of Lib Dems support this outcome but a majority of Conservatives (55%) oppose.

    So the Tories are c10 points ahead. But it is Tory voters opposed to an election? Suggests a snap poll may not play too well. People simply don't like elections for purely party political reasons.
    Even if it is their own side doing it.
    Or they don’t want to risk it. I doubt someone who said they’d vote for a party would not based solely on the fact there was an election.
  • I think this year's Strictly might be a bit shit, out of the first five celebrities I've only ever heard of one.

    Maybe they are transitioning it back to being a dancing competition, like it was when Angela Rippon roamed the Earth?
  • AndyJSAndyJS Posts: 29,395
    Byronic said:

    Who are these 20% who still think Corbyn would be a good prime minister? Or are they Tories having a giraffe?

    Even my most Corbynite friends have now abandoned Corbyn, and gone into post-Corbyn mode. I don't know ANYONE who doesn't want him gone, sharpish, and I have a lot of leftwing pals.

    Who and where are these die-hard Corbynistas?

    I'd like to see Corbyn's ratings outside London, Birmingham and Manchester.
  • GallowgateGallowgate Posts: 19,468
    AndyJS said:

    Byronic said:

    Who are these 20% who still think Corbyn would be a good prime minister? Or are they Tories having a giraffe?

    Even my most Corbynite friends have now abandoned Corbyn, and gone into post-Corbyn mode. I don't know ANYONE who doesn't want him gone, sharpish, and I have a lot of leftwing pals.

    Who and where are these die-hard Corbynistas?

    I'd like to see Corbyn's ratings outside London, Birmingham and Manchester.
    Still quite a few in Newcastle and Durham...
This discussion has been closed.