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politicalbetting.com » Blog Archive » Lazy Summers but politics can go on

SystemSystem Posts: 12,171
edited July 2019 in General

imagepoliticalbetting.com » Blog Archive » Lazy Summers but politics can go on

In An Italian Education, Tim Parks describes the wonderfully languorous routine of an Italian summer: the shutting down of all but essential services in hot, humid cities leaving them to tourists, the departure for the coast, the gathering of the extended family, the early mornings to enjoy an espresso outside when the day is cool, the encampment at the same spot on the beach amongst the ombrelloni, neatly and beautifully laid out, la bella figura being quite as important when little is worn as at every other time, lunch followed by siesta, the late afternoon passeggiata before evening entertainment.  Day in, day out, the rythym is much the same, punctuated by religious festivals: Sant’ Andrea in Amalfi in late June, for instance, or Ferragosto everywhere.  Then the gentle return home in September, with weekend visits to the coast for those lucky enough to live nearby.  It is a time to breathe, relax, close off the pressing problems of life, which can – for now – wait.

Read the full story here


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Comments

  • dixiedeandixiedean Posts: 29,414
    First. Am making a habit of this.
  • surbiton19surbiton19 Posts: 1,469
    Polls. We need polls.
  • DecrepitJohnLDecrepitJohnL Posts: 13,300
    Too easy -- mention of Italy in the very first sentence makes it clear this is a Cyclefree piece. Do we need to read it or, after the JRM thread, should we just discuss the number of spaces after each full stop?

    And why has it taken me this long to notice JRM has fullstop as one word?
  • CharlesCharles Posts: 35,758
    edited July 2019

    Too easy -- mention of Italy in the very first sentence makes it clear this is a Cyclefree piece. Do we need to read it or, after the JRM thread, should we just discuss the number of spaces after each full stop?

    And why has it taken me this long to notice JRM has fullstop as one word?

    It was a compromise to get the US trade deal

    We successfully resisted an immediate change to “period” but compromised on a single word for a transition period
  • ZephyrZephyr Posts: 438

    Too easy -- mention of Italy in the very first sentence makes it clear this is a Cyclefree piece. Do we need to read it or, after the JRM thread, should we just discuss the number of spaces after each full stop?

    And why has it taken me this long to notice JRM has fullstop as one word?

    I always put two spaces after full stop, and, biting my bottom lip as I say this, lost count the number of times been criticised for doing so. However, I think there are times a comma can follow and, though.

    See what I done there?
  • StuartDicksonStuartDickson Posts: 12,146
    edited July 2019
    Thank you for putting events into context Cyclefree. England likes to think that she is exceptional. She isn’t. Her normalness is about to be illustrated for her in a rather cruel fashion.

    Italians, Poles, Russians, Hungarians, Germans, Kuwaitis, Iraqis, Thais, French, Japanese, Georgians, Greeks, Dutch, Crimeans, Ukrainians, Ossetians, Americans and English; these are all just different words for the same thing: people.
  • StuartDicksonStuartDickson Posts: 12,146
    Incidentally, I’ve already taken the mattress route for a significant chunk of my savings. Except my particular safe haven is gold rather than bedroom furniture. However, I still have far too much in equities, so thank you for the reminder to sell more. Duck and cover.
  • StuartDicksonStuartDickson Posts: 12,146
    Boris Johnson exit date - best prices

    2019 3/1
    2020 3/1
    2021 6/1
    2022 5/1
    2023 or later 5/1
  • IanB2IanB2 Posts: 49,869
    edited July 2019
    A lazy article for a lazy hot summer. Meant in a nice way; the point of the lead is simply that things do happen in summer, despite everyone’s wish to get away from it all, which is surely more acute for politicians after the year we have had so far.

    JRM’s foolery illustrates the career of a man in politics who hasn’t troubled himself with wanting to achieve very much to improve his fellow citizens’ lives, and to whom symbols are more important than substance. No surprise he has been a leading Brexiter. Stories like his antics won’t make much difference now, but sow seeds as to how the government may come to be seen as and when people turn decisively against it.

    The single/double space obsession will be familiar to anyone who edits Wikipedia. Despite WP’s policies being clear that it makes no difference, with its algorithms displaying all articles on the screen with single space breaks between sentences regardless of whether they have been typed single or double spaced, there are still editors who spent their time editing articles purely to remove the extra spaces others have put between sentences. Which is weird.

    Tim Parks’s light but surprisingly profound insights into Italian life are essential reading for understanding how Italy isn’t the relaxed carefree place of contented living that it can sometimes very superficially appear.
  • IanB2IanB2 Posts: 49,869

    Incidentally, I’ve already taken the mattress route for a significant chunk of my savings. Except my particular safe haven is gold rather than bedroom furniture. However, I still have far too much in equities, so thank you for the reminder to sell more. Duck and cover.

    It all hangs on whether and when Trump’s bubble bursts. He will keep the plates spinning as long as he can, hoping (insofar as he has thought about them) to leave the consequences for his successor. He just wants the good times to roll so he can bask in their glow, just as does our mini-Trump.
  • StuartDicksonStuartDickson Posts: 12,146
    Scott_P said:

    htt ps://twitter.com/hendopolis/status/1154875961529311232

    So, according to Rees-Mogg, Remainers “wouldn’t dare” overturn a law? Is that not what MPs are there for? Reviewing, changing, writing and adapting legislation? What does Rees-Mogg imagine they are there for otherwise?
  • StuartDicksonStuartDickson Posts: 12,146
    Ta for the Tim Parks tip Ian. Duly added to my pile of books in preparation for August in Sicily.
  • Scott_PScott_P Posts: 51,453
    This week Boris put his foot down. He is anything but confident that Brussels will blink first. He is not confident parliament will let him crash out of the EU with a no-deal in October; he is not confident he could win a snap general election; and he has no idea what the consequences of a no-deal Brexit would be.

    But he does know that he has been so vehement in his “do-or-die” promise that to back away now could be fatal. All he can do is double down on the bet. Where Theresa May’s homily would be “don’t throw good money after bad”, Johnson would prefer “in for a penny, in for a pound” — or in Macbeth’s words: I am in blood/ Stepped in so far that, should I wade no more/ Returning were as tedious as go o’er. Read the play. These are not the words of a truly confident leader; they betray a shaft of lonely despair.


    https://www.thetimes.co.uk/edition/comment/watch-out-for-the-loose-cannon-of-no-10-q375jrmvz
  • RobDRobD Posts: 59,936

    Scott_P said:

    htt ps://twitter.com/hendopolis/status/1154875961529311232

    So, according to Rees-Mogg, Remainers “wouldn’t dare” overturn a law? Is that not what MPs are there for? Reviewing, changing, writing and adapting legislation? What does Rees-Mogg imagine they are there for otherwise?
    Yet they've done nothing of the sort with respect to Brexit when given the opportunity.
  • CharlesCharles Posts: 35,758

    Scott_P said:

    htt ps://twitter.com/hendopolis/status/1154875961529311232

    So, according to Rees-Mogg, Remainers “wouldn’t dare” overturn a law? Is that not what MPs are there for? Reviewing, changing, writing and adapting legislation? What does Rees-Mogg imagine they are there for otherwise?
    To be fair to him, they haven’t dared to do much so far
  • NigelbNigelb Posts: 71,238
    Scott_P said:

    This week Boris put his foot down. He is anything but confident that Brussels will blink first. He is not confident parliament will let him crash out of the EU with a no-deal in October; he is not confident he could win a snap general election; and he has no idea what the consequences of a no-deal Brexit would be.

    But he does know that he has been so vehement in his “do-or-die” promise that to back away now could be fatal. All he can do is double down on the bet. Where Theresa May’s homily would be “don’t throw good money after bad”, Johnson would prefer “in for a penny, in for a pound” — or in Macbeth’s words: I am in blood/ Stepped in so far that, should I wade no more/ Returning were as tedious as go o’er. Read the play. These are not the words of a truly confident leader; they betray a shaft of lonely despair.


    https://www.thetimes.co.uk/edition/comment/watch-out-for-the-loose-cannon-of-no-10-q375jrmvz

    Though it seems unlikely that he was put up to it by his wife....
  • NigelbNigelb Posts: 71,238
    Charles said:

    Scott_P said:

    htt ps://twitter.com/hendopolis/status/1154875961529311232

    So, according to Rees-Mogg, Remainers “wouldn’t dare” overturn a law? Is that not what MPs are there for? Reviewing, changing, writing and adapting legislation? What does Rees-Mogg imagine they are there for otherwise?
    To be fair to him, they haven’t dared to do much so far
    Mogg’s mistake, perhaps, is voicing it as as the way to prevent no deal.
  • Philip_ThompsonPhilip_Thompson Posts: 65,826
    Surprised you missed Summer 2016 Britain - The EU Referendum itself. The timing may not have been a shock but the result certainly was.
  • NigelbNigelb Posts: 71,238
    Science is sceptical of Boris airy superpower bluster.
    https://www.bbc.co.uk/news/business-49133625
  • OldKingColeOldKingCole Posts: 33,478
    Scott_P said:
    Who dares, wins! And an ironic comparison between the headline and the banner above it!
  • MikeSmithsonMikeSmithson Posts: 7,382

    Surprised you missed Summer 2016 Britain - The EU Referendum itself. The timing may not have been a shock but the result certainly was.

    Clearly you weren't following the polling. My final prediction, on German TV at 2200 on June 22nd 2016 was that it was too close to call - which given the outcome was an pretty good prediction.

    The idea that this wasn't forecast is a myth. Please stop repeating it.

  • logical_songlogical_song Posts: 9,914
    Nigelb said:

    Science is sceptical of Boris airy superpower bluster.
    https://www.bbc.co.uk/news/business-49133625

    The Wellcome Trust is an organisation that this country can be proud of.
  • StuartDicksonStuartDickson Posts: 12,146
    Is there a realistic chance that PM BJ could stand in a different constituency at the next GE? In which case, where? On paper, his result in Uxbridge and South Ruislip last time was not very convincing, and Baxter has it down as a very narrow Con Hold, with Labour only requiring a further 1.9 point swing to take it.

    Shadsy has a price up that he will stand in a different seat: 10/1. Tempting?

    Result GE17:
    Con (BJ) 23,716
    Lab 18,682
    LD 1,835
    UKIP 1,577
    Grn 884

    https://www.electoralcalculus.co.uk/area_lond.html
  • Philip_ThompsonPhilip_Thompson Posts: 65,826

    Surprised you missed Summer 2016 Britain - The EU Referendum itself. The timing may not have been a shock but the result certainly was.

    Clearly you weren't following the polling. My final prediction, on German TV at 2200 on June 22nd 2016 was that it was too close to call - which given the outcome was an pretty good prediction.

    The idea that this wasn't forecast is a myth. Please stop repeating it.

    It wasn't as much a shock by polling day but it was a shock compared to the polling and what had come before. I disagree with the obsession ovsr final polls and final predictions.

    Throughout 2015 and early 2016 until Cameron called the referendum Remain led in almost every single poll. In 2015 stripping out don't knows Remain had more double digit leads than Leave had leads even by 1%

    It wasn't what was forecast in 2015, as opposed to summer 2016.
  • AlistairAlistair Posts: 23,670

    Surprised you missed Summer 2016 Britain - The EU Referendum itself. The timing may not have been a shock but the result certainly was.

    Clearly you weren't following the polling. My final prediction, on German TV at 2200 on June 22nd 2016 was that it was too close to call - which given the outcome was an pretty good prediction.

    The idea that this wasn't forecast is a myth. Please stop repeating it.

    I refuse to go count the total number of surveys showing a remain or leave lead over a X time period before the referendum again. I just won't do it.

    (the answer is it was exactly 50/50)
  • Philip_ThompsonPhilip_Thompson Posts: 65,826
    Alistair said:

    Surprised you missed Summer 2016 Britain - The EU Referendum itself. The timing may not have been a shock but the result certainly was.

    Clearly you weren't following the polling. My final prediction, on German TV at 2200 on June 22nd 2016 was that it was too close to call - which given the outcome was an pretty good prediction.

    The idea that this wasn't forecast is a myth. Please stop repeating it.

    I refuse to go count the total number of surveys showing a remain or leave lead over a X time period before the referendum again. I just won't do it.

    (the answer is it was exactly 50/50)
    Have a look at the 12 months before the referendum was called rather than the days before the vote was counted.

    Like the 2017 General Election. The result is much less shocking by comparing to final polls but the appropriate comparison IMO is not to final polls but to the polls befors the election was called. Then it is truly shocking.
  • ydoethurydoethur Posts: 71,426

    Is there a realistic chance that PM BJ could stand in a different constituency at the next GE? In which case, where? On paper, his result in Uxbridge and South Ruislip last time was not very convincing, and Baxter has it down as a very narrow Con Hold, with Labour only requiring a further 1.9 point swing to take it.

    Shadsy has a price up that he will stand in a different seat: 10/1. Tempting?

    Result GE17:
    Con (BJ) 23,716
    Lab 18,682
    LD 1,835
    UKIP 1,577
    Grn 884

    https://www.electoralcalculus.co.uk/area_lond.html

    Personally I would doubt it. The optics would be terrible. 'Look! He's so fearful of a bad result he daren't even take his own seat for granted.' I'll think he would have to stand, lose and fight a by-election, a la Balfour, under those circumstances.

    A more pertinent problem might be if he's so nervous of his constituency he has to spend a lot of time in it. That would certainly hurt the Tories because with all his faults he is undoubtedly a brilliant campaigner and nobody could stand in for him.
  • Philip_ThompsonPhilip_Thompson Posts: 65,826

    Is there a realistic chance that PM BJ could stand in a different constituency at the next GE? In which case, where? On paper, his result in Uxbridge and South Ruislip last time was not very convincing, and Baxter has it down as a very narrow Con Hold, with Labour only requiring a further 1.9 point swing to take it.

    Shadsy has a price up that he will stand in a different seat: 10/1. Tempting?

    Result GE17:
    Con (BJ) 23,716
    Lab 18,682
    LD 1,835
    UKIP 1,577
    Grn 884

    https://www.electoralcalculus.co.uk/area_lond.html

    If there is a further 1.9% swing the election is lost anyway.
  • PulpstarPulpstar Posts: 78,217
    They'll all be plotting on WhatsApp on the beach I reckon
  • ydoethurydoethur Posts: 71,426

    Is there a realistic chance that PM BJ could stand in a different constituency at the next GE? In which case, where? On paper, his result in Uxbridge and South Ruislip last time was not very convincing, and Baxter has it down as a very narrow Con Hold, with Labour only requiring a further 1.9 point swing to take it.

    Shadsy has a price up that he will stand in a different seat: 10/1. Tempting?

    Result GE17:
    Con (BJ) 23,716
    Lab 18,682
    LD 1,835
    UKIP 1,577
    Grn 884

    https://www.electoralcalculus.co.uk/area_lond.html

    If there is a further 1.9% swing the election is lost anyway.
    London is different from the rest of the country. You can imagine a 2% swing to the Opposition (word chosen carefully) there and a 3% swing to the government elsewhere.
  • IanB2IanB2 Posts: 49,869
    edited July 2019

    Ta for the Tim Parks tip Ian. Duly added to my pile of books in preparation for August in Sicily.

    His first book, something like Italian Neighbours, about his moving to Italy having married an Italian, is a good introduction, although somewhat dated given that it describes life decades ago now. His second book, Italian Education, about his children growing up in Italy, is the better read, but makes a bit more sense with the first as background. His book about Italian trains (Italian Ways) was disappointing by comparison.

    Edit/ for Sicily look at the Norman Lewis book.
  • StuartDicksonStuartDickson Posts: 12,146
    Why are they appointing an English MP to the Scotland Office when they have 13 Scottish Conservative MPs? Are there really none of them up to the job?

    https://www.bbc.com/news/uk-scotland-scotland-politics-49134445
  • ydoethurydoethur Posts: 71,426

    Why are they appointing an English MP to the Scotland Office when they have 13 Scottish Conservative MPs? Are there really none of them up to the job?

    https://www.bbc.com/news/uk-scotland-scotland-politics-49134445

    Something that you and Boris agree on? :smile:
  • StuartDicksonStuartDickson Posts: 12,146
    ydoethur said:

    Is there a realistic chance that PM BJ could stand in a different constituency at the next GE? In which case, where? On paper, his result in Uxbridge and South Ruislip last time was not very convincing, and Baxter has it down as a very narrow Con Hold, with Labour only requiring a further 1.9 point swing to take it.

    Shadsy has a price up that he will stand in a different seat: 10/1. Tempting?

    Result GE17:
    Con (BJ) 23,716
    Lab 18,682
    LD 1,835
    UKIP 1,577
    Grn 884

    https://www.electoralcalculus.co.uk/area_lond.html

    Personally I would doubt it. The optics would be terrible. 'Look! He's so fearful of a bad result he daren't even take his own seat for granted.' I'll think he would have to stand, lose and fight a by-election, a la Balfour, under those circumstances.

    A more pertinent problem might be if he's so nervous of his constituency he has to spend a lot of time in it. That would certainly hurt the Tories because with all his faults he is undoubtedly a brilliant campaigner and nobody could stand in for him.
    “he is undoubtedly a brilliant campaigner”: I’m not convinced. I think every time his daft face appears on telly another former Con voter jumps ship. He is a repellent.
  • malcolmgmalcolmg Posts: 43,362

    Why are they appointing an English MP to the Scotland Office when they have 13 Scottish Conservative MPs? Are there really none of them up to the job?

    https://www.bbc.com/news/uk-scotland-scotland-politics-49134445

    Got to get the chums in place, keep an eye on the natives
  • OldKingColeOldKingCole Posts: 33,478

    Nigelb said:

    Science is sceptical of Boris airy superpower bluster.
    https://www.bbc.co.uk/news/business-49133625

    The Wellcome Trust is an organisation that this country can be proud of.
    Indeed, and it's thoughts should be heeded. 'Can do' was responsible not only for the Apollo moon landings and Dunkirk but also for Gallipoli and the Charge of the Light Brigade. Not to mention the defence of Singapore!
  • ydoethurydoethur Posts: 71,426

    ydoethur said:

    Is there a realistic chance that PM BJ could stand in a different constituency at the next GE? In which case, where? On paper, his result in Uxbridge and South Ruislip last time was not very convincing, and Baxter has it down as a very narrow Con Hold, with Labour only requiring a further 1.9 point swing to take it.

    Shadsy has a price up that he will stand in a different seat: 10/1. Tempting?

    Result GE17:
    Con (BJ) 23,716
    Lab 18,682
    LD 1,835
    UKIP 1,577
    Grn 884

    https://www.electoralcalculus.co.uk/area_lond.html

    Personally I would doubt it. The optics would be terrible. 'Look! He's so fearful of a bad result he daren't even take his own seat for granted.' I'll think he would have to stand, lose and fight a by-election, a la Balfour, under those circumstances.

    A more pertinent problem might be if he's so nervous of his constituency he has to spend a lot of time in it. That would certainly hurt the Tories because with all his faults he is undoubtedly a brilliant campaigner and nobody could stand in for him.
    “he is undoubtedly a brilliant campaigner”: I’m not convinced. I think every time his daft face appears on telly another former Con voter jumps ship. He is a repellent.
    So is Corbyn. Doesn't stop him being a highly effective campaigner.
  • IanB2IanB2 Posts: 49,869
    edited July 2019

    ydoethur said:

    Is there a realistic chance that PM BJ could stand in a different constituency at the next GE? In which case, where? On paper, his result in Uxbridge and South Ruislip last time was not very convincing, and Baxter has it down as a very narrow Con Hold, with Labour only requiring a further 1.9 point swing to take it.

    Shadsy has a price up that he will stand in a different seat: 10/1. Tempting?

    Result GE17:
    Con (BJ) 23,716
    Lab 18,682
    LD 1,835
    UKIP 1,577
    Grn 884

    https://www.electoralcalculus.co.uk/area_lond.html

    Personally I would doubt it. The optics would be terrible. 'Look! He's so fearful of a bad result he daren't even take his own seat for granted.' I'll think he would have to stand, lose and fight a by-election, a la Balfour, under those circumstances.

    A more pertinent problem might be if he's so nervous of his constituency he has to spend a lot of time in it. That would certainly hurt the Tories because with all his faults he is undoubtedly a brilliant campaigner and nobody could stand in for him.
    “he is undoubtedly a brilliant campaigner”: I’m not convinced. I think every time his daft face appears on telly another former Con voter jumps ship. He is a repellent.
    I spent a day with him during his mayoral time, and he was forever besieged by people wanting a conversation or a photo. He revels in being liked. However that was then and this is now; he repels as many as he attracts nowadays. Also worth remembering that we’ve only really seen Boris in the good times, given his luck, and he has previously been able to brush off mistakes and misfortune either with bluster as distraction, or with self deprecating humour.

    Boris under serious pressure of losing his job and reputation would be something else. Beneath the amiable character he projects, I don’t think he’s a good person, at all.
  • OldKingColeOldKingCole Posts: 33,478
    ydoethur said:

    ydoethur said:

    Is there a realistic chance that PM BJ could stand in a different constituency at the next GE? In which case, where? On paper, his result in Uxbridge and South Ruislip last time was not very convincing, and Baxter has it down as a very narrow Con Hold, with Labour only requiring a further 1.9 point swing to take it.

    Shadsy has a price up that he will stand in a different seat: 10/1. Tempting?

    Result GE17:
    Con (BJ) 23,716
    Lab 18,682
    LD 1,835
    UKIP 1,577
    Grn 884

    https://www.electoralcalculus.co.uk/area_lond.html

    Personally I would doubt it. The optics would be terrible. 'Look! He's so fearful of a bad result he daren't even take his own seat for granted.' I'll think he would have to stand, lose and fight a by-election, a la Balfour, under those circumstances.

    A more pertinent problem might be if he's so nervous of his constituency he has to spend a lot of time in it. That would certainly hurt the Tories because with all his faults he is undoubtedly a brilliant campaigner and nobody could stand in for him.
    “he is undoubtedly a brilliant campaigner”: I’m not convinced. I think every time his daft face appears on telly another former Con voter jumps ship. He is a repellent.
    So is Corbyn. Doesn't stop him being a highly effective campaigner.

    Jeremy Thorpe, another excellent campaigner, had to keep running back to his constituency in 1966 and ended holding it after a recount.
  • SquareRootSquareRoot Posts: 7,095
    malcolmg said:

    Why are they appointing an English MP to the Scotland Office when they have 13 Scottish Conservative MPs? Are there really none of them up to the job?

    https://www.bbc.com/news/uk-scotland-scotland-politics-49134445

    Got to get the chums in place, keep an eye on the natives
    Not many Scots are up to the job.. Remember what happened when a Scottish PM took office.. The whole economy was fecked.. I give you Gordon Brown.
  • StuartDicksonStuartDickson Posts: 12,146
    malcolmg said:

    Why are they appointing an English MP to the Scotland Office when they have 13 Scottish Conservative MPs? Are there really none of them up to the job?

    https://www.bbc.com/news/uk-scotland-scotland-politics-49134445

    Got to get the chums in place, keep an eye on the natives
    I think it’s clear that the Johnson administration considers “natives” to include SCon MPs. There is no love lost, in either direction. That is a problem. Not just for the Conservative Party, but for the Union.
  • alex.alex. Posts: 4,658

    Why are they appointing an English MP to the Scotland Office when they have 13 Scottish Conservative MPs? Are there really none of them up to the job?

    https://www.bbc.com/news/uk-scotland-scotland-politics-49134445

    Presumably they’re struggling to find people to take the pledge.
  • StuartDicksonStuartDickson Posts: 12,146

    malcolmg said:

    Why are they appointing an English MP to the Scotland Office when they have 13 Scottish Conservative MPs? Are there really none of them up to the job?

    https://www.bbc.com/news/uk-scotland-scotland-politics-49134445

    Got to get the chums in place, keep an eye on the natives
    Not many Scots are up to the job.. Remember what happened when a Scottish PM took office.. The whole economy was fecked.. I give you Gordon Brown.
    Clearly Boris Johnson does not think there are *any* Scots up to the job. Bit bizarre (and unprecedented) when he has a decent pool of Scottish MPs to pick from.

    (“Decent” is here used to describe quantity, not quality or morality.)
  • ydoethurydoethur Posts: 71,426
    IanB2 said:

    ydoethur said:

    Is there a realistic chance that PM BJ could stand in a different constituency at the next GE? In which case, where? On paper, his result in Uxbridge and South Ruislip last time was not very convincing, and Baxter has it down as a very narrow Con Hold, with Labour only requiring a further 1.9 point swing to take it.

    Shadsy has a price up that he will stand in a different seat: 10/1. Tempting?

    Result GE17:
    Con (BJ) 23,716
    Lab 18,682
    LD 1,835
    UKIP 1,577
    Grn 884

    https://www.electoralcalculus.co.uk/area_lond.html

    Personally I would doubt it. The optics would be terrible. 'Look! He's so fearful of a bad result he daren't even take his own seat for granted.' I'll think he would have to stand, lose and fight a by-election, a la Balfour, under those circumstances.

    A more pertinent problem might be if he's so nervous of his constituency he has to spend a lot of time in it. That would certainly hurt the Tories because with all his faults he is undoubtedly a brilliant campaigner and nobody could stand in for him.
    “he is undoubtedly a brilliant campaigner”: I’m not convinced. I think every time his daft face appears on telly another former Con voter jumps ship. He is a repellent.
    I spent a day with him during his mayoral time, and he was forever besieged by people wanting a conversation or a photo. He revels in being liked. However that was then and this is now; he repels as many as he attracts nowadays. Also worth remembering that we’ve only really seen Boris in the good times, given his luck, and he has previously been able to brush off mistakes and misfortune either with bluster as distraction, or with self deprecating humour.

    Boris under serious pressure of losing his job and reputation would be something else. Beneath the amiable character he projects, I don’t think he’s a good person, at all.
    Again, we all said this about Corbyn. Just because you and I can see he's a repellent human being with a ludicrous policy offering doesn't mean that will tell against his persona on the stump.
  • PulpstarPulpstar Posts: 78,217
    Trump wins wall case 5-4 in SCOTUS. One of those Roberts could genuinely have gone either way on
  • ydoethurydoethur Posts: 71,426

    ydoethur said:

    ydoethur said:

    Is there a realistic chance that PM BJ could stand in a different constituency at the next GE? In which case, where? On paper, his result in Uxbridge and South Ruislip last time was not very convincing, and Baxter has it down as a very narrow Con Hold, with Labour only requiring a further 1.9 point swing to take it.

    Shadsy has a price up that he will stand in a different seat: 10/1. Tempting?

    Result GE17:
    Con (BJ) 23,716
    Lab 18,682
    LD 1,835
    UKIP 1,577
    Grn 884

    https://www.electoralcalculus.co.uk/area_lond.html

    Personally I would doubt it. The optics would be terrible. 'Look! He's so fearful of a bad result he daren't even take his own seat for granted.' I'll think he would have to stand, lose and fight a by-election, a la Balfour, under those circumstances.

    A more pertinent problem might be if he's so nervous of his constituency he has to spend a lot of time in it. That would certainly hurt the Tories because with all his faults he is undoubtedly a brilliant campaigner and nobody could stand in for him.
    “he is undoubtedly a brilliant campaigner”: I’m not convinced. I think every time his daft face appears on telly another former Con voter jumps ship. He is a repellent.
    So is Corbyn. Doesn't stop him being a highly effective campaigner.

    Jeremy Thorpe, another excellent campaigner, had to keep running back to his constituency in 1966 and ended holding it after a recount.
    Thorpe was the precedent I was thinking of. It may not have been decisive in the Liberal reverses that year but I imagine it was distinctly unhelpful.
  • StuartDicksonStuartDickson Posts: 12,146
    alex. said:

    Why are they appointing an English MP to the Scotland Office when they have 13 Scottish Conservative MPs? Are there really none of them up to the job?

    https://www.bbc.com/news/uk-scotland-scotland-politics-49134445

    Presumably they’re struggling to find people to take the pledge.
    Yes, possibly. They asked and every single one of them said No.

    But the alternative is even more worrying for Ruthie’s team: none of her MPs was even considered for the job. She really is in the naughty corner.
  • ydoethurydoethur Posts: 71,426

    I give you Gordon Brown.

    Please don't hesitate to take him back again.
  • StuartDicksonStuartDickson Posts: 12,146
    ydoethur said:

    ydoethur said:

    ydoethur said:

    Is there a realistic chance that PM BJ could stand in a different constituency at the next GE? In which case, where? On paper, his result in Uxbridge and South Ruislip last time was not very convincing, and Baxter has it down as a very narrow Con Hold, with Labour only requiring a further 1.9 point swing to take it.

    Shadsy has a price up that he will stand in a different seat: 10/1. Tempting?

    Result GE17:
    Con (BJ) 23,716
    Lab 18,682
    LD 1,835
    UKIP 1,577
    Grn 884

    https://www.electoralcalculus.co.uk/area_lond.html

    Personally I would doubt it. The optics would be terrible. 'Look! He's so fearful of a bad result he daren't even take his own seat for granted.' I'll think he would have to stand, lose and fight a by-election, a la Balfour, under those circumstances.

    A more pertinent problem might be if he's so nervous of his constituency he has to spend a lot of time in it. That would certainly hurt the Tories because with all his faults he is undoubtedly a brilliant campaigner and nobody could stand in for him.
    “he is undoubtedly a brilliant campaigner”: I’m not convinced. I think every time his daft face appears on telly another former Con voter jumps ship. He is a repellent.
    So is Corbyn. Doesn't stop him being a highly effective campaigner.

    Jeremy Thorpe, another excellent campaigner, had to keep running back to his constituency in 1966 and ended holding it after a recount.
    Thorpe was the precedent I was thinking of. It may not have been decisive in the Liberal reverses that year but I imagine it was distinctly unhelpful.
    Well in that case, we have one more item under the Weaknesses category in our Con swot analysis: leader distracted by seat worry. Mind you, the LD swot analysis has the same item.
  • OldKingColeOldKingCole Posts: 33,478
    ydoethur said:

    ydoethur said:

    ydoethur said:

    Is there a realistic chance that PM BJ could stand in a different constituency at the next GE? In which case, where? On paper, his result in Uxbridge and South Ruislip last time was not very convincing, and Baxter has it down as a very narrow Con Hold, with Labour only requiring a further 1.9 point swing to take it.

    Shadsy has a price up that he will stand in a different seat: 10/1. Tempting?

    Result GE17:
    Con (BJ) 23,716
    Lab 18,682
    LD 1,835
    UKIP 1,577
    Grn 884

    https://www.electoralcalculus.co.uk/area_lond.html

    Personally I would doubt it. The optics would be terrible. 'Look! He's so fearful of a bad result he daren't even take his own seat for granted.' I'll think he would have to stand, lose and fight a by-election, a la Balfour, under those circumstances.

    A more pertinent problem might be if he's so nervous of his constituency he has to spend a lot of time in it. That would certainly hurt the Tories because with all his faults he is undoubtedly a brilliant campaigner and nobody could stand in for him.
    “he is undoubtedly a brilliant campaigner”: I’m not convinced. I think every time his daft face appears on telly another former Con voter jumps ship. He is a repellent.
    So is Corbyn. Doesn't stop him being a highly effective campaigner.

    Jeremy Thorpe, another excellent campaigner, had to keep running back to his constituency in 1966 and ended holding it after a recount.
    Thorpe was the precedent I was thinking of. It may not have been decisive in the Liberal reverses that year but I imagine it was distinctly unhelpful.
    Stretching my mind back, I think you're right. He was on TV of course, but he wasn't seen. It wasn't a good campaign, or result. where I was, either.
  • ydoethurydoethur Posts: 71,426
    He clearly is gearing up for an election, and targeting Leave seats in the north:

    Boris Johnson backs high-speed Leeds to Manchester rail route

    https://www.bbc.co.uk/news/uk-england-49132477

    I notice silence still on HS2.
  • ydoethurydoethur Posts: 71,426

    ydoethur said:

    ydoethur said:

    ydoethur said:

    Is there a realistic chance that PM BJ could stand in a different constituency at the next GE? In which case, where? On paper, his result in Uxbridge and South Ruislip last time was not very convincing, and Baxter has it down as a very narrow Con Hold, with Labour only requiring a further 1.9 point swing to take it.

    Shadsy has a price up that he will stand in a different seat: 10/1. Tempting?

    Result GE17:
    Con (BJ) 23,716
    Lab 18,682
    LD 1,835
    UKIP 1,577
    Grn 884

    https://www.electoralcalculus.co.uk/area_lond.html

    Personally I would doubt it. The optics would be terrible. 'Look! He's so fearful of a bad result he daren't even take his own seat for granted.' I'll think he would have to stand, lose and fight a by-election, a la Balfour, under those circumstances.

    A more pertinent problem might be if he's so nervous of his constituency he has to spend a lot of time in it. That would certainly hurt the Tories because with all his faults he is undoubtedly a brilliant campaigner and nobody could stand in for him.
    “he is undoubtedly a brilliant campaigner”: I’m not convinced. I think every time his daft face appears on telly another former Con voter jumps ship. He is a repellent.
    So is Corbyn. Doesn't stop him being a highly effective campaigner.

    Jeremy Thorpe, another excellent campaigner, had to keep running back to his constituency in 1966 and ended holding it after a recount.
    Thorpe was the precedent I was thinking of. It may not have been decisive in the Liberal reverses that year but I imagine it was distinctly unhelpful.
    Well in that case, we have one more item under the Weaknesses category in our Con swot analysis: leader distracted by seat worry. Mind you, the LD swot analysis has the same item.
    Agreed. Swinson (and Davey for the matter of that) could easily be neutered by an assertive campaign from their closest rivals.

    Any more Labour leakage in London and Corbyn will be looking over his shoulder as well.
  • NickPalmerNickPalmer Posts: 21,534
    ydoethur said:

    Is there a realistic chance that PM BJ could stand in a different constituency at the next GE? In which case, where? On paper, his result in Uxbridge and South Ruislip last time was not very convincing, and Baxter has it down as a very narrow Con Hold, with Labour only requiring a further 1.9 point swing to take it.

    Shadsy has a price up that he will stand in a different seat: 10/1. Tempting?

    Result GE17:
    Con (BJ) 23,716
    Lab 18,682
    LD 1,835
    UKIP 1,577
    Grn 884

    https://www.electoralcalculus.co.uk/area_lond.html

    Personally I would doubt it. The optics would be terrible. 'Look! He's so fearful of a bad result he daren't even take his own seat for granted.' I'll think he would have to stand, lose and fight a by-election, a la Balfour, under those circumstances.

    A more pertinent problem might be if he's so nervous of his constituency he has to spend a lot of time in it. That would certainly hurt the Tories because with all his faults he is undoubtedly a brilliant campaigner and nobody could stand in for him.
    Good analysis IMO, ydoethur.

    Thanks to Cyclefree for the evocative introduction and the tempting-looking book link. Is that you on the photo?
  • StuartDicksonStuartDickson Posts: 12,146
    IanB2 said:

    ydoethur said:

    Is there a realistic chance that PM BJ could stand in a different constituency at the next GE? In which case, where? On paper, his result in Uxbridge and South Ruislip last time was not very convincing, and Baxter has it down as a very narrow Con Hold, with Labour only requiring a further 1.9 point swing to take it.

    Shadsy has a price up that he will stand in a different seat: 10/1. Tempting?

    Result GE17:
    Con (BJ) 23,716
    Lab 18,682
    LD 1,835
    UKIP 1,577
    Grn 884

    https://www.electoralcalculus.co.uk/area_lond.html

    Personally I would doubt it. The optics would be terrible. 'Look! He's so fearful of a bad result he daren't even take his own seat for granted.' I'll think he would have to stand, lose and fight a by-election, a la Balfour, under those circumstances.

    A more pertinent problem might be if he's so nervous of his constituency he has to spend a lot of time in it. That would certainly hurt the Tories because with all his faults he is undoubtedly a brilliant campaigner and nobody could stand in for him.
    “he is undoubtedly a brilliant campaigner”: I’m not convinced. I think every time his daft face appears on telly another former Con voter jumps ship. He is a repellent.
    I spent a day with him during his mayoral time, and he was forever besieged by people wanting a conversation or a photo. He revels in being liked. However that was then and this is now; he repels as many as he attracts nowadays. Also worth remembering that we’ve only really seen Boris in the good times, given his luck, and he has previously been able to brush off mistakes and misfortune either with bluster as distraction, or with self deprecating humour.

    Boris under serious pressure of losing his job and reputation would be something else. Beneath the amiable character he projects, I don’t think he’s a good person, at all.
    The man is about to face a huge test of character. I doubt he has the right set of personality traits to pass the test. May coped admirably with being despised. But can Johnson cope? He seems to be too dependent on folk having to like him.
  • FoxyFoxy Posts: 48,733

    ydoethur said:

    ydoethur said:

    ydoethur said:

    Is there a realistic chance that PM BJ could stand in a different constituency at the next GE? In which case, where? On paper, his result in Uxbridge and South Ruislip last time was not very convincing, and Baxter has it down as a very narrow Con Hold, with Labour only requiring a further 1.9 point swing to take it.

    Shadsy has a price up that he will stand in a different seat: 10/1. Tempting?

    Result GE17:
    Con (BJ) 23,716
    Lab 18,682
    LD 1,835
    UKIP 1,577
    Grn 884

    https://www.electoralcalculus.co.uk/area_lond.html

    Personally I would doubt it. The optics would be terrible. 'Look! He's so fearful of a bad result he daren't even take his own seat for granted.' I'll think he would have to stand, lose and fight a by-election, a la Balfour, under those circumstances.

    A more pertinent problem might be if he's so nervous of his constituency he has to spend a lot of time in it. That would certainly hurt the Tories because with all his faults he is undoubtedly a brilliant campaigner and nobody could stand in for him.
    “he is undoubtedly a brilliant campaigner”: I’m not convinced. I think every time his daft face appears on telly another former Con voter jumps ship. He is a repellent.
    So is Corbyn. Doesn't stop him being a highly effective campaigner.

    Jeremy Thorpe, another excellent campaigner, had to keep running back to his constituency in 1966 and ended holding it after a recount.
    Thorpe was the precedent I was thinking of. It may not have been decisive in the Liberal reverses that year but I imagine it was distinctly unhelpful.
    Well in that case, we have one more item under the Weaknesses category in our Con swot analysis: leader distracted by seat worry. Mind you, the LD swot analysis has the same item.
    I think that LD leaders have pretty much always had that problem.

    In other news it clearly won't be a hard brexit:

    https://twitter.com/MimiVonPeach/status/1154723862673874944?s=19
  • Morris_DancerMorris_Dancer Posts: 61,806
    FPT: F1: Verstappen's qualifying odds have fallen from 10 to 5.5. Gaping chasm on Betfair (1.3 to back, 10 to lay) but might be able to hedge, if that's your cup of tea, once things get going.

    There's also a qualifying without the big 6 market (Ladbrokes).
  • OnlyLivingBoyOnlyLivingBoy Posts: 15,798

    Why are they appointing an English MP to the Scotland Office when they have 13 Scottish Conservative MPs? Are there really none of them up to the job?

    https://www.bbc.com/news/uk-scotland-scotland-politics-49134445

    Scots are being lined up to play the role of the enemy within in a populist election centred on provincial England. So they don't need to be on board - in fact Johnson has probably already written off the SCon seats. Expect a lot more of the wanky anti-Scots rhetoric on this site too (already spotted a bit down thread) as the propaganda machine is cranked up.
  • ydoethurydoethur Posts: 71,426
    Foxy said:

    ydoethur said:

    ydoethur said:

    ydoethur said:

    Is there a realistic chance that PM BJ could stand in a different constituency at the next GE? In which case, where? On paper, his result in Uxbridge and South Ruislip last time was not very convincing, and Baxter has it down as a very narrow Con Hold, with Labour only requiring a further 1.9 point swing to take it.

    Shadsy has a price up that he will stand in a different seat: 10/1. Tempting?

    Result GE17:
    Con (BJ) 23,716
    Lab 18,682
    LD 1,835
    UKIP 1,577
    Grn 884

    https://www.electoralcalculus.co.uk/area_lond.html

    Personally I would doubt it. The optics would be terrible. 'Look! He's so fearful of a bad result he daren't even take his own seat for granted.' I'll think he would have to stand, lose and fight a by-election, a la Balfour, under those circumstances.

    A more pertinent problem might be if he's so nervous of his constituency he has to spend a lot of time in it. That would certainly hurt the Tories because with all his faults he is undoubtedly a brilliant campaigner and nobody could stand in for him.
    “he is undoubtedly a brilliant campaigner”: I’m not convinced. I think every time his daft face appears on telly another former Con voter jumps ship. He is a repellent.
    So is Corbyn. Doesn't stop him being a highly effective campaigner.

    Jeremy Thorpe, another excellent campaigner, had to keep running back to his constituency in 1966 and ended holding it after a recount.
    Thorpe was the precedent I was thinking of. It may not have been decisive in the Liberal reverses that year but I imagine it was distinctly unhelpful.
    Well in that case, we have one more item under the Weaknesses category in our Con swot analysis: leader distracted by seat worry. Mind you, the LD swot analysis has the same item.
    I think that LD leaders have pretty much always had that problem.

    In other news it clearly won't be a hard brexit:

    https://twitter.com/MimiVonPeach/status/1154723862673874944?s=19
    Brexit will be a flop?
  • FoxyFoxy Posts: 48,733
    ydoethur said:

    Foxy said:

    ydoethur said:

    ydoethur said:

    ydoethur said:

    Is there a realistic chance that PM BJ could stand in a different constituency at the next GE? In which case, where? On paper, his result in Uxbridge and South Ruislip last time was not very convincing, and Baxter has it down as a very narrow Con Hold, with Labour only requiring a further 1.9 point swing to take it.

    Shadsy has a price up that he will stand in a different seat: 10/1. Tempting?

    Result GE17:
    Con (BJ) 23,716
    Lab 18,682
    LD 1,835
    UKIP 1,577
    Grn 884

    https://www.electoralcalculus.co.uk/area_lond.html

    Personally I would doubt it. The optics would be terrible. 'Look! He's so fearful of a bad result he daren't even take his own seat for granted.' I'll think he would have to stand, lose and fight a by-election, a la Balfour, under those circumstances.

    A more pertinent problem might be if he's so nervous of his constituency he has to spend a lot of time in it. That would certainly hurt the Tories because with all his faults he is undoubtedly a brilliant campaigner and nobody could stand in for him.
    “he is undoubtedly a brilliant campaigner”: I’m not convinced. I think every time his daft face appears on telly another former Con voter jumps ship. He is a repellent.
    So is Corbyn. Doesn't stop him being a highly effective campaigner.

    Jeremy Thorpe, another excellent campaigner, had to keep running back to his constituency in 1966 and ended holding it after a recount.
    Thorpe was the precedent I was thinking of. It may not have been decisive in the Liberal reverses that year but I imagine it was distinctly unhelpful.
    Well in that case, we have one more item under the Weaknesses category in our Con swot analysis: leader distracted by seat worry. Mind you, the LD swot analysis has the same item.
    I think that LD leaders have pretty much always had that problem.

    In other news it clearly won't be a hard brexit:

    https://twitter.com/MimiVonPeach/status/1154723862673874944?s=19
    Brexit will be a flop?
    Brewers droop for the Weatherspoon crowd.
  • ydoethurydoethur Posts: 71,426
    Foxy said:

    ydoethur said:

    Foxy said:

    ydoethur said:

    ydoethur said:

    ydoethur said:

    Is there a realistic chance that PM BJ could stand in a different constituency at the next GE? In which case, where? On paper, his result in Uxbridge and South Ruislip last time was not very convincing, and Baxter has it down as a very narrow Con Hold, with Labour only requiring a further 1.9 point swing to take it.

    Shadsy has a price up that he will stand in a different seat: 10/1. Tempting?

    Result GE17:
    Con (BJ) 23,716
    Lab 18,682
    LD 1,835
    UKIP 1,577
    Grn 884

    https://www.electoralcalculus.co.uk/area_lond.html

    Personally I would doubt it. The optics would be terrible. 'Look! He's so fearful of a bad result he daren't even take his own seat for granted.' I'll think he would have to stand, lose and fight a by-election, a la Balfour, under those circumstances.

    A more pertinent problem might be if he's so nervous of his constituency he has to spend a lot of time in it. That would certainly hurt the Tories because with all his faults he is undoubtedly a brilliant campaigner and nobody could stand in for him.
    “he is undoubtedly a brilliant campaigner”: I’m not convinced. I think every time his daft face appears on telly another former Con voter jumps ship. He is a repellent.
    So is Corbyn. Doesn't stop him being a highly effective campaigner.

    Jeremy Thorpe, another excellent campaigner, had to keep running back to his constituency in 1966 and ended holding it after a recount.
    Thorpe was the precedent I was thinking of. It may not have been decisive in the Liberal reverses that year but I imagine it was distinctly unhelpful.
    Well in that case, we have one more item under the Weaknesses category in our Con swot analysis: leader distracted by seat worry. Mind you, the LD swot analysis has the same item.
    I think that LD leaders have pretty much always had that problem.

    In other news it clearly won't be a hard brexit:

    https://twitter.com/MimiVonPeach/status/1154723862673874944?s=19
    Brexit will be a flop?
    Brewers droop for the Weatherspoon crowd.
    Brexit is like the line from Macbeth's porter:

    'It provoketh the desire, but it taketh away the performance.'
  • ydoethur said:

    Foxy said:

    ydoethur said:

    ydoethur said:

    ydoethur said:

    Is there a realistic chance that PM BJ could stand in a different constituency at the next GE? In which case, where? On paper, his result in Uxbridge and South Ruislip last time was not very convincing, and Baxter has it down as a very narrow Con Hold, with Labour only requiring a further 1.9 point swing to take it.

    Shadsy has a price up that he will stand in a different seat: 10/1. Tempting?

    Result GE17:
    Con (BJ) 23,716
    Lab 18,682
    LD 1,835
    UKIP 1,577
    Grn 884

    https://www.electoralcalculus.co.uk/area_lond.html

    Personally I would doubt it. The optics would be terrible. 'Look! He's so fearful of a bad result he daren't even take his own seat for granted.' I'll think he would have to stand, lose and fight a by-election, a la Balfour, under those circumstances.

    A more pertinent problem might be if he's so nervous of his constituency he has to spend a lot of time in it. That would certainly hurt the Tories because with all his faults he is undoubtedly a brilliant campaigner and nobody could stand in for him.
    “he is undoubtedly a brilliant campaigner”: I’m not convinced. I think every time his daft face appears on telly another former Con voter jumps ship. He is a repellent.
    So is Corbyn. Doesn't stop him being a highly effective campaigner.

    Jeremy Thorpe, another excellent campaigner, had to keep running back to his constituency in 1966 and ended holding it after a recount.
    Thorpe was the precedent I was thinking of. It may not have been decisive in the Liberal reverses that year but I imagine it was distinctly unhelpful.
    Well in that case, we have one more item under the Weaknesses category in our Con swot analysis: leader distracted by seat worry. Mind you, the LD swot analysis has the same item.
    I think that LD leaders have pretty much always had that problem.

    In other news it clearly won't be a hard brexit:

    https://twitter.com/MimiVonPeach/status/1154723862673874944?s=19
    Brexit will be a flop?
    Could it be an Erection winner?
  • not_on_firenot_on_fire Posts: 4,449
    edited July 2019

    Scott_P said:
    Who dares, wins! And an ironic comparison between the headline and the banner above it!
    Surely that headline should read, “Rees-Mogg, Esq. dares Remainer rebels...”
  • NorthCadbollNorthCadboll Posts: 332
    edited July 2019
    Morning all and just noticed last night's thread. I am DELIGHTED to see that JRM is fighting back against the bastardisation of our language due to sloppy, inadequate teaching standards for decades and a semi-illiterate media. I hope the new Education Secretary does likewise.

    As for the EU, let's see what it is saying in 2 months time. Simon Coveney let the cat out of the bag last weekend when he admitted that if Britain doesn't do as its told, the EU will insist either Ireland imposes border checks or Ireland will have to leave the single market. I hope Boris plays hardball and makes clear he is willing to see the Irish economy crumble if the EU doesn't come back to the discussion table. In the real world the buyer generally has more power than the seller and in our relationship with the EU, we are the buyers.
  • FoxyFoxy Posts: 48,733

    Why are they appointing an English MP to the Scotland Office when they have 13 Scottish Conservative MPs? Are there really none of them up to the job?

    https://www.bbc.com/news/uk-scotland-scotland-politics-49134445

    Scots are being lined up to play the role of the enemy within in a populist election centred on provincial England. So they don't need to be on board - in fact Johnson has probably already written off the SCon seats. Expect a lot more of the wanky anti-Scots rhetoric on this site too (already spotted a bit down thread) as the propaganda machine is cranked up.
    Canny Brexiteers know that Brexit is only viable if it is an England only affair. Backstop sorted and no blockage to a parliamentary majority from those infuriating Celts. The break up of the United Kingdom is a good thing to them.
  • IanB2IanB2 Posts: 49,869
    ydoethur said:

    Is there a realistic chance that PM BJ could stand in a different constituency at the next GE? In which case, where? On paper, his result in Uxbridge and South Ruislip last time was not very convincing, and Baxter has it down as a very narrow Con Hold, with Labour only requiring a further 1.9 point swing to take it.

    Shadsy has a price up that he will stand in a different seat: 10/1. Tempting?

    Result GE17:
    Con (BJ) 23,716
    Lab 18,682
    LD 1,835
    UKIP 1,577
    Grn 884

    https://www.electoralcalculus.co.uk/area_lond.html

    Personally I would doubt it. The optics would be terrible. 'Look! He's so fearful of a bad result he daren't even take his own seat for granted.' I'll think he would have to stand, lose and fight a by-election, a la Balfour, under those circumstances.

    A more pertinent problem might be if he's so nervous of his constituency he has to spend a lot of time in it. That would certainly hurt the Tories because with all his faults he is undoubtedly a brilliant campaigner and nobody could stand in for him.
    On the other side of the equation, he is shameless, his own advancement is always his first priority, and if something works for him he won’t be shamed into doing anything different. As we’ve just seen from his risible submarine act during the campaign.
  • ydoethurydoethur Posts: 71,426

    ydoethur said:

    Foxy said:

    ydoethur said:

    ydoethur said:

    ydoethur said:

    Is there a realistic chance that PM BJ could stand in a different constituency at the next GE? In which case, where? On paper, his result in Uxbridge and South Ruislip last time was not very convincing, and Baxter has it down as a very narrow Con Hold, with Labour only requiring a further 1.9 point swing to take it.

    Shadsy has a price up that he will stand in a different seat: 10/1. Tempting?

    Result GE17:
    Con (BJ) 23,716
    Lab 18,682
    LD 1,835
    UKIP 1,577
    Grn 884

    https://www.electoralcalculus.co.uk/area_lond.html

    Personally I would doubt it. The optics would be terrible. 'Look! He's so fearful of a bad result he daren't even take his own seat for granted.' I'll think he would have to stand, lose and fight a by-election, a la Balfour, under those circumstances.

    A more pertinent problem might be if he's so nervous of his constituency he has to spend a lot of time in it. That would certainly hurt the Tories because with all his faults he is undoubtedly a brilliant campaigner and nobody could stand in for him.
    “he is undoubtedly a brilliant campaigner”: I’m not convinced. I think every time his daft face appears on telly another former Con voter jumps ship. He is a repellent.
    So is Corbyn. Doesn't stop him being a highly effective campaigner.

    Jeremy Thorpe, another excellent campaigner, had to keep running back to his constituency in 1966 and ended holding it after a recount.
    Thorpe was the precedent I was thinking of. It may not have been decisive in the Liberal reverses that year but I imagine it was distinctly unhelpful.
    Well in that case, we have one more item under the Weaknesses category in our Con swot analysis: leader distracted by seat worry. Mind you, the LD swot analysis has the same item.
    I think that LD leaders have pretty much always had that problem.

    In other news it clearly won't be a hard brexit:

    https://twitter.com/MimiVonPeach/status/1154723862673874944?s=19
    Brexit will be a flop?
    Could it be an Erection winner?
    That's not a hard one. No.
  • alex.alex. Posts: 4,658
    So Trump says that there will be a massive US-UK trade deal and the reason it hasn’t happened before is “because of the EU”. Well yes, technically because the ‘UK’ doesn’t do bilateral trade deals as part of the EU, but has he forgotten TTIP already? Could have sworn it was a Trump who ultimately put the kybosh on that one (although wiki suggests there are negotiation in progress towards a very similar replica)
  • IanB2IanB2 Posts: 49,869
  • JackWJackW Posts: 14,787
    malcolmg said:

    Why are they appointing an English MP to the Scotland Office when they have 13 Scottish Conservative MPs? Are there really none of them up to the job?

    https://www.bbc.com/news/uk-scotland-scotland-politics-49134445

    Got to get the chums in place, keep an eye on the natives
    Are the natives revolting .... :smiley:

    ....................................................

    I also note young Malcy that your avatar and mine are related. Fueling speculation that I have a love child in Ayrshire among the turnip nobility of the area !! .... :astonished:
  • FoxyFoxy Posts: 48,733

    Morning all and just noticed last night's thread. I am DELIGHTED to see that JRM is fighting back against the bastardisation of our language due to sloppy, inadequate teaching standards for decades and a semi-illiterate media. I hope the new Education Secretary does likewise.

    As for the EU, let's see what it is saying in 2 months time. Simon Coveney let the cat out of the bag last weekend when he admitted that if Britain doesn't do as its told, the EU will insist either Ireland imposes border checks or Ireland will have to leave the single market. I hope Boris plays hardball and makes clear he is willing to see the Irish economy crumble if the EU doesn't come back to the discussion table. In the real world the buyer generally has more power than the seller and in our relationship with the EU, we are the buyers.

    The German car makers will come to our rescue.

  • Scott_PScott_P Posts: 51,453

    Morning all and just noticed last night's thread. I am DELIGHTED to see that JRM is fighting back against the bastardisation of our language due to sloppy, inadequate teaching standards for decades and a semi-illiterate media. I hope the new Education Secretary does likewise.

    https://twitter.com/markpack/status/1154993720087011329
  • CyclefreeCyclefree Posts: 25,318

    Surprised you missed Summer 2016 Britain - The EU Referendum itself. The timing may not have been a shock but the result certainly was.

    Do you feel Brexit has not been discussed enough?

    I was rather hoping some other world events might be discussed, even if only on a look-back basis. Time does give us a fresh perspective.

    ydoethur said:

    Is there a realistic chance that PM BJ could stand in a different constituency at the next GE? In which case, where? On paper, his result in Uxbridge and South Ruislip last time was not very convincing, and Baxter has it down as a very narrow Con Hold, with Labour only requiring a further 1.9 point swing to take it.

    Shadsy has a price up that he will stand in a different seat: 10/1. Tempting?

    Result GE17:
    Con (BJ) 23,716
    Lab 18,682
    LD 1,835
    UKIP 1,577
    Grn 884

    https://www.electoralcalculus.co.uk/area_lond.html

    Personally I would doubt it. The optics would be terrible. 'Look! He's so fearful of a bad result he daren't even take his own seat for granted.' I'll think he would have to stand, lose and fight a by-election, a la Balfour, under those circumstances.

    A more pertinent problem might be if he's so nervous of his constituency he has to spend a lot of time in it. That would certainly hurt the Tories because with all his faults he is undoubtedly a brilliant campaigner and nobody could stand in for him.
    Good analysis IMO, ydoethur.

    Thanks to Cyclefree for the evocative introduction and the tempting-looking book link. Is that you on the photo?
    No. Not me. The beach looks lovely though.
  • GardenwalkerGardenwalker Posts: 21,298
    JRM’s batshit memo has been effective - it’s consumed a whole day’s news-cycle, even on PB.
  • eekeek Posts: 28,406
    IanB2 said:
    Actually people will just glance at the first line if they read it at all.
  • IanB2IanB2 Posts: 49,869
    edited July 2019

    Good Morning all; I have andjust noticed last night's thread. I am DELIGHTED to see that JRM is fighting back against the bastardisation of our language due to decades of sloppy, inadequate teaching standards for decades and a semi-illiterate media. I hope that the new Education Secretary does likewise.

    As for the EU, let's see what it is saying in 2 months time. Simon Coveney let the cat out of the bag last weekend when he admitted that if Britain doesn't do as its told, the EU will insist that either Ireland either imposes border checks or Ireland will havehas to leave the single market. I hope Boris plays hardball and makes clear he is willing to see the Irish economy crumble if the EU doesn't come back to the discussion table. In the real world the buyer generally has more power than the seller, and in our relationship with the EU, we are the buyers.

    Here is your marked homework. Not too bad, but would benefit from closer attention to detail and checking before submission. Greater knowledge of your subject matter would also help.
  • GardenwalkerGardenwalker Posts: 21,298
    Robespierre died on this day in 1794.
    Will Cummings light a candle?
  • FoxyFoxy Posts: 48,733

    JRM’s batshit memo has been effective - it’s consumed a whole day’s news-cycle, even on PB.

    The silly season is all systems go! We have lift off...
  • FoxyFoxy Posts: 48,733
    IanB2 said:

    Good Morning all; I have andjust noticed last night's thread. I am DELIGHTED to see that JRM is fighting back against the bastardisation of our language due to decades of sloppy, inadequate teaching standards for decades and a semi-illiterate media. I hope that the new Education Secretary does likewise.

    As for the EU, let's see what it is saying in 2 months time. Simon Coveney let the cat out of the bag last weekend when he admitted that if Britain doesn't do as its told, the EU will insist that either Ireland either imposes border checks or Ireland will havehas to leave the single market. I hope Boris plays hardball and makes clear he is willing to see the Irish economy crumble if the EU doesn't come back to the discussion table. In the real world the buyer generally has more power than the seller, and in our relationship with the EU, we are the buyers.

    Here is your marked homework. Not too bad, but would benefit from closer attention to detail and checking before submission.
    Thank you, @IanB2 esq.
  • glwglw Posts: 9,912
    Scott_P said:
    There's a meme for everything.

    Quote From Man Stabbed

    "What are you gonna do, stab me?"
  • DougSealDougSeal Posts: 12,541

    Scott_P said:
    Who dares, wins! And an ironic comparison between the headline and the banner above it!
    This is a straw man. Remainers know a straight revoke of Art 50 would be a disaster. There needs to be a supervening event to give it legitimacy.

    There are many here who say to overturn a democratic decision through second vote before the first is implemented is undemocratic. The Ancient Athenians, who invented our democratic tradition, thought otherwise as the the Mytilenaean Debate shows. Unfortunately (and perhaps ironically given the current PM) classical precedents are not exactly persuasive these days. Better to leave briefly and let those who led us to this catastrophe be utterly discredited before heading back or even joining EFTA.
  • FF43FF43 Posts: 17,208
    edited July 2019

    ...

    As for the EU, let's see what it is saying in 2 months time. Simon Coveney let the cat out of the bag last weekend when he admitted that if Britain doesn't do as its told, the EU will insist either Ireland imposes border checks or Ireland will have to leave the single market. I hope Boris plays hardball and makes clear he is willing to see the Irish economy crumble if the EU doesn't come back to the discussion table. In the real world the buyer generally has more power than the seller and in our relationship with the EU, we are the buyers.

    That's precisely why Ireland can't afford a hard border or to compromise on the backstop, either as part of a deal or not. At least with No Deal, they keep their options open. Don't you see the logic of that?

    On your second point, in the real world, the bigger players who set the rules have the power. Leavers don't accept that because they don't yet accept the UK will be a "Vassal State".
  • FoxyFoxy Posts: 48,733
    FF43 said:

    ...

    As for the EU, let's see what it is saying in 2 months time. Simon Coveney let the cat out of the bag last weekend when he admitted that if Britain doesn't do as its told, the EU will insist either Ireland imposes border checks or Ireland will have to leave the single market. I hope Boris plays hardball and makes clear he is willing to see the Irish economy crumble if the EU doesn't come back to the discussion table. In the real world the buyer generally has more power than the seller and in our relationship with the EU, we are the buyers.

    That's precisely why Ireland can't afford a hard border or to compromise on the backstop, either as part of a deal or not. At least with No Deal, they keep their options open. Don't you see the logic of that?
    A further option is Irish unification of course.
  • Morris_DancerMorris_Dancer Posts: 61,806
    Mr. Seal, the Athenians also massacred almost their entire military leadership, in the middle of a war, having just won a battle.

    If MPs want a second referendum, that's a legitimate position to hold. What isn't legitimate is this idiocy voting to endorse the decision to leave, then voting repeatedly against the deal, then complaining we're leaving with no deal.

    No shit, Sherlock. That's precisely what the majority of MPs have voted for. You can't vote to leave with no deal and then complain we're leaving with no deal.
  • Dura_AceDura_Ace Posts: 13,677

    JRM’s batshit memo has been effective - it’s consumed a whole day’s news-cycle, even on PB.

    Donald Tusk: Don't waste this time.
  • CyclefreeCyclefree Posts: 25,318
    Anyway, fpt in response to @ReggieCide - “Is it not beneath you to use anyone's dress as a basis for criticism? Suppose for example, someone suggested you dress like a tart, how would you judge that?”

    If someone suggested that to me I would simply reply that they should know.

    I take clothes seriously. I compliment people if they are well-dressed and like receiving such compliments in my turn. It is a small pleasure in life. Inflicting ugliness on others in public - an ill-kempt appearance, bad breath, BO, uncared-for front gardens, horrible buildings - well, it’s a form of rudeness. Fare bella figura is one of the nice things about Italy (though it is about behaviour as well as appearance).

    JRM clearly cares about his appearance and is trying to appear like something - his idea of a gentleman, I imagine - but he gets it wrong. If he is so pompous as to tell others how to behave (and most of his rules are ridiculous) then he should not be surprised if people respond to him in kind.

    But lighten up - my comment was in the spirit of gentle mockery which most of yesterday’s thread was.

    And today’s header was meant to be a lighter summer-based reflection for the weekend. We don’t have to take everything seriously all the time.

    Anyway, despite the rain, I have to do some gardening. Where is the sun when you need it, eh?
  • DougSealDougSeal Posts: 12,541

    Morning all and just noticed last night's thread. I am DELIGHTED to see that JRM is fighting back against the bastardisation of our language due to sloppy, inadequate teaching standards for decades and a semi-illiterate media. I hope the new Education Secretary does likewise.

    As for the EU, let's see what it is saying in 2 months time. Simon Coveney let the cat out of the bag last weekend when he admitted that if Britain doesn't do as its told, the EU will insist either Ireland imposes border checks or Ireland will have to leave the single market. I hope Boris plays hardball and makes clear he is willing to see the Irish economy crumble if the EU doesn't come back to the discussion table. In the real world the buyer generally has more power than the seller and in our relationship with the EU, we are the buyers.

    Globally the Irish have far more sympathy, and are generally more popular, than we are. Any action that has the purpose or effect of damaging the Irish economy will be spun as the evil Brits repeating the Famine in the States and elsewhere. Indeed, any action deliberately designed to damage a neighbouring economy will have far reaching negative repercussions for us given the neighbouring economy is part of a political union far stronger than us. We can’t piss far enough anymore to win that sort of contest and frankly, given our inglorious history in Ireland and it’s lethal outcomes, neither should we want to.
  • OnlyLivingBoyOnlyLivingBoy Posts: 15,798
    FF43 said:

    ...

    As for the EU, let's see what it is saying in 2 months time. Simon Coveney let the cat out of the bag last weekend when he admitted that if Britain doesn't do as its told, the EU will insist either Ireland imposes border checks or Ireland will have to leave the single market. I hope Boris plays hardball and makes clear he is willing to see the Irish economy crumble if the EU doesn't come back to the discussion table. In the real world the buyer generally has more power than the seller and in our relationship with the EU, we are the buyers.

    That's precisely why Ireland can't afford a hard border or to compromise on the backstop, either as part of a deal or not. At least with No Deal, they keep their options open. Don't you see the logic of that?
    Brexiteers: we don't need the backstop because Britain can be trusted to honour the Good Friday agreement and treat Ireland fairly.
    Also Brexiteers: if the Irish don't do exactly what we want we will destroy them.
  • MJWMJW Posts: 1,728
    ydoethur said:

    ydoethur said:

    Is there a realistic chance that PM BJ could stand in a different constituency at the next GE? In which case, where? On paper, his result in Uxbridge and South Ruislip last time was not very convincing, and Baxter has it down as a very narrow Con Hold, with Labour only requiring a further 1.9 point swing to take it.

    Shadsy has a price up that he will stand in a different seat: 10/1. Tempting?

    Result GE17:
    Con (BJ) 23,716
    Lab 18,682
    LD 1,835
    UKIP 1,577
    Grn 884

    https://www.electoralcalculus.co.uk/area_lond.html

    Personally I would doubt it. The optics would be terrible. 'Look! He's so fearful of a bad result he daren't even take his own seat for granted.' I'll think he would have to stand, lose and fight a by-election, a la Balfour, under those circumstances.

    A more pertinent problem might be if he's so nervous of his constituency he has to spend a lot of time in it. That would certainly hurt the Tories because with all his faults he is undoubtedly a brilliant campaigner and nobody could stand in for him.
    “he is undoubtedly a brilliant campaigner”: I’m not convinced. I think every time his daft face appears on telly another former Con voter jumps ship. He is a repellent.
    So is Corbyn. Doesn't stop him being a highly effective campaigner.
    I always think the term "brilliant campaigner" is often an after the fact explanation for performance rather than a causal phenomenon. You're a "brilliant campaigner" until, well, you're not. Blair was a "brilliant campaigner" until he became personally unpopular. Boris' reputation as a "brilliant campaigner" rests largely on his two London mayoral campaigns against a flawed and tired opponent, and were pre-Brexit Boris - when he could plausibly cast himself as the Tory it was ok for people who disliked Tories to vote for. That's just not the case now.

    As for Corbyn, we remember his leadership campaigns and the 2017 GE but forget his dismal failure in the referendum and every other election. You can talk about his love of a rally, but as we saw this week, that's not necessarily the same thing as "good campaigning". The key to whether Labour can pull off a similar feat in a potential GE19 as to 17, is not Corbyn's alleged campaigning skills, but whether the underlying politics are the same. If they're not, and he's now about as welcome outside his core supporters as a cup of cold sick, then the stuff hailed as "good campaigning" last time will be used as an example of his delusions and failure as a campaigner rather than an asset.
  • OnlyLivingBoyOnlyLivingBoy Posts: 15,798
    DougSeal said:

    Morning all and just noticed last night's thread. I am DELIGHTED to see that JRM is fighting back against the bastardisation of our language due to sloppy, inadequate teaching standards for decades and a semi-illiterate media. I hope the new Education Secretary does likewise.

    As for the EU, let's see what it is saying in 2 months time. Simon Coveney let the cat out of the bag last weekend when he admitted that if Britain doesn't do as its told, the EU will insist either Ireland imposes border checks or Ireland will have to leave the single market. I hope Boris plays hardball and makes clear he is willing to see the Irish economy crumble if the EU doesn't come back to the discussion table. In the real world the buyer generally has more power than the seller and in our relationship with the EU, we are the buyers.

    Globally the Irish have far more sympathy, and are generally more popular, than we are. Any action that has the purpose or effect of damaging the Irish economy will be spun as the evil Brits repeating the Famine in the States and elsewhere. Indeed, any action deliberately designed to damage a neighbouring economy will have far reaching negative repercussions for us given the neighbouring economy is part of a political union far stronger than us. We can’t piss far enough anymore to win that sort of contest and frankly, given our inglorious history in Ireland and it’s lethal outcomes, neither should we want to.
    If we piss all over the Irish we can forget our US trade deal.
  • CyclefreeCyclefree Posts: 25,318
    DougSeal said:

    Morning all and just noticed last night's thread. I am DELIGHTED to see that JRM is fighting back against the bastardisation of our language due to sloppy, inadequate teaching standards for decades and a semi-illiterate media. I hope the new Education Secretary does likewise.

    As for the EU, let's see what it is saying in 2 months time. Simon Coveney let the cat out of the bag last weekend when he admitted that if Britain doesn't do as its told, the EU will insist either Ireland imposes border checks or Ireland will have to leave the single market. I hope Boris plays hardball and makes clear he is willing to see the Irish economy crumble if the EU doesn't come back to the discussion table. In the real world the buyer generally has more power than the seller and in our relationship with the EU, we are the buyers.

    Globally the Irish have far more sympathy, and are generally more popular, than we are. Any action that has the purpose or effect of damaging the Irish economy will be spun as the evil Brits repeating the Famine in the States and elsewhere. Indeed, any action deliberately designed to damage a neighbouring economy will have far reaching negative repercussions for us given the neighbouring economy is part of a political union far stronger than us. We can’t piss far enough anymore to win that sort of contest and frankly, given our inglorious history in Ireland and it’s lethal outcomes, neither should we want to.
    Well said. The idea that a country should seek deliberately to harm a neighbour as part of a strop to get what it wants is disgraceful. That there are some British politicians who think this and that some of them are in government (Priti Patel) is - or ought to be - a matter of shame. Not self-congratulation.
  • IanB2IanB2 Posts: 49,869
    MJW said:

    ydoethur said:

    ydoethur said:

    Is there a realistic chance that PM BJ could stand in a different constituency at the next GE? In which case, where? On paper, his result in Uxbridge and South Ruislip last time was not very convincing, and Baxter has it down as a very narrow Con Hold, with Labour only requiring a further 1.9 point swing to take it.

    Shadsy has a price up that he will stand in a different seat: 10/1. Tempting?

    Result GE17:
    Con (BJ) 23,716
    Lab 18,682
    LD 1,835
    UKIP 1,577
    Grn 884

    https://www.electoralcalculus.co.uk/area_lond.html

    Personally I would doubt it. The optics would be terrible. 'Look! He's so fearful of a bad result he daren't even take his own seat for granted.' I'll think he would have to stand, lose and fight a by-election, a la m.
    “he is undoubtedly a brilliant campaigner”: I’m not convinced. I think every time his daft face appears on telly another former Con voter jumps ship. He is a repellent.
    So is Corbyn. Doesn't stop him being a highly effective campaigner.
    I always think the term "brilliant campaigner" is often an after the fact explanation for performance rather than a causal phenomenon. You're a "brilliant campaigner" until, well, you're not. Blair was a "brilliant campaigner" until he became personally unpopular. Boris' reputation as a "brilliant campaigner" rests largely on his two London mayoral campaigns against a flawed and tired opponent, and were pre-Brexit Boris - when he could plausibly cast himself as the Tory it was ok for people who disliked Tories to vote for. That's just not the case now.

    As for Corbyn, we remember his leadership campaigns and the 2017 GE but forget his dismal failure in the referendum and every other election. You can talk about his love of a rally, but as we saw this week, that's not necessarily the same thing as "good campaigning". The key to whether Labour can pull off a similar feat in a potential GE19 as to 17, is not Corbyn's alleged campaigning skills, but whether the underlying politics are the same. If they're not, and he's now about as welcome outside his core supporters as a cup of cold sick, then the stuff hailed as "good campaigning" last time will be used as an example of his delusions and failure as a campaigner rather than an asset.
    There are also diminishing returns, unless the campaigner continually works on their messages and methods. A good example would be Rory, who caught our attention by wandering the streets with his selfie camera. If there’s another leadership election and he does exactly the same, it won’t have nearly the same impact. Similarly if Corbyn fights the next GE as a straight rerun of the last.
  • IanB2IanB2 Posts: 49,869
    edited July 2019
    Cyclefree said:

    Anyway, fpt in response to @ReggieCide - “Is it not beneath you to use anyone's dress as a basis for criticism? Suppose for example, someone suggested you dress like a tart, how would you judge that?”

    If someone suggested that to me I would simply reply that they should know.

    I take clothes seriously. I compliment people if they are well-dressed and like receiving such compliments in my turn. It is a small pleasure in life. Inflicting ugliness on others in public - an ill-kempt appearance, bad breath, BO, uncared-for front gardens, horrible buildings - well, it’s a form of rudeness. Fare bella figura is one of the nice things about Italy (though it is about behaviour as well as appearance).

    JRM clearly cares about his appearance and is trying to appear like something - his idea of a gentleman, I imagine - but he gets it wrong. If he is so pompous as to tell others how to behave (and most of his rules are ridiculous) then he should not be surprised if people respond to him in kind.

    But lighten up - my comment was in the spirit of gentle mockery which most of yesterday’s thread was.

    And today’s header was meant to be a lighter summer-based reflection for the weekend. We don’t have to take everything seriously all the time.

    Anyway, despite the rain, I have to do some gardening. Where is the sun when you need it, eh?

    Shining over Brecon :)
  • Scott_PScott_P Posts: 51,453
    glw said:

    There's a meme for everything.

    Quote From Man Stabbed

    "What are you gonna do, stab me?"

    Do you feel lucky, punk?

    Well, do ya?
  • FoxyFoxy Posts: 48,733
    edited July 2019
    Scott_P said:
    Boris spaffing money everywhere is no surprise. He is as financially incontinent as he is sexually.

    The obvious question is what was preventing this before? Certainly not the EU.
This discussion has been closed.