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politicalbetting.com » Blog Archive » NEW PB / Polling Matters podcast. So Boris Johnson is PM. What

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    Casino_RoyaleCasino_Royale Posts: 55,394

    Isn't the whole point of that tweet providing the evidence that she's not just a neo-Thatcherite?
    No. The tweet is a smear.

    We see this all the time. Like when similar Conservatives are accused of being racist or fascist (or both) for appearing at a debate with the wrong sort of people. Personally, I think Chloe is too ideological but she’s not unpleasant and nor is she is a racist.

    If there’s prima facie evidence of her having wholly unpalatable views then let’s hear it.

    Until then it’s just a crude political attempt to damage the Government by reaching into the past and smearing her by association, which is being an institutional speciality of social media. Probably because it’s effective far too often.
    Isn't it pretty much the entire basis for the Corbyn anti semitism stuff?

    I don't know that you've been much involved in that yourself but you can hardly complain about these tactics being used back against the Conservatives...
    No, there’s enough evidence internally and externally that there is a problem with anti-Semitic attitudes in Corbyn’s Labour now. And it needs to be addressed.

    However, all sides use these tactics now.

    They work.
    Most polling seems to show a greater problem for the Conservatives, regardless of the attacks of the other side.
    Sigh. Pointless arguing with an ideologue.

    I’m going to work. Have a good day.
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    malcolmgmalcolmg Posts: 41,995
    edited July 2019
    ydoethur said:

    malcolmg said:
    I assure you Gloucester isn't a fantasy Malcolm, I lived there for several years.
    Yes but a poncy council seat does not a government make. It is the usual frenzy of fantasy on here. They are just as crap as they were last week, nothing has changed other than a different donkey is pulling the cart. If they are the answer then the country really is well and truly F****d, they are rank rotten, lying toerags without principles.
    PS: I am sure Gloucester is a very nice place.
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    TheJezziahTheJezziah Posts: 3,840
    ydoethur said:

    It would be amusing to see Casino Royale defending racism among Boris' acolytes and The Jezziah attacking it - in an exact about turn of the discussions over THAT mural - if it wasn't just deeply depressing that this is what we have come to.

    I'm not sure people who voted for the woman who sent go home vans around the place have too much to feel high and mighty about.
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    malcolmgmalcolmg Posts: 41,995

    malcolmg said:

    AndyJS said:

    "Meet Carrie Symonds, The Most-Watched Woman In Westminster"

    https://www.vogue.co.uk/article/who-is-carrie-symonds

    Usual Horses arses faced Tory. Far too much inbreeding down there.
    You really are an unpleasant individual. What a nasty, unnecessary comment.
    LOL o:)
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    SouthamObserverSouthamObserver Posts: 38,937

    IanB2 said:

    I’m a regular subscriber to the Spectator.

    One of the most irritating things about the election of Boris is how the magazine has gone completely doolally for him. It’s like it’s an in-house journalistic mouthpiece devoted to his advocacy and has lost all objectivity.

    This is disappointing as I usually rely on it as a useful and sober perspective on conservative politics.

    I may now have to look elsewhere for that.

    Brexit has made the Spectator a supermarket tabloid for affluent reactionaries. In fairness, that’s a very profitable niche.
    It contains some very useful and insightful writing, some of which goes against the editorial line like Matthew Paris, for example.

    It’s the likes of James Forsyth and Fraser Nelson who are starting to disappoint me.

    Fraser Nelson could be a no deal Brexit bot and we wouldn’t notice any difference.
    Nelson is one of those promising young men who turned out to be a big flop in middle age. The planet is jam-packed full of them.

    Personally, I’m aging like a fine Bordeaux. Peak Stuart is a long way off.

    As Spectator editor Nelson’s job is to put together a publication that attracts subscribers, advertisers and sponsors. He does it very well. There is a big market for reactionary, racist and libertarian writing which he has tapped into, following the lead from his predecessor Boris Johnson.

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    StuartDicksonStuartDickson Posts: 12,146
    malcolmg said:

    ydoethur said:

    malcolmg said:
    I assure you Gloucester isn't a fantasy Malcolm, I lived there for several years.
    Yes but a poncy council seat does not a government make. It is the usual frenzy of fantasy on here. They are just as crap as they were last week, nothing has changed other than a different donkey is pulling the cart. If they are the answer then the country really is well and truly F****d, they are rank rotten, lying toerags without principles.
    PS: I am sure Gloucester is a very nice place.
    Donkey. Cart. Coffee snort.
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    ydoethurydoethur Posts: 67,287

    ydoethur said:

    It would be amusing to see Casino Royale defending racism among Boris' acolytes and The Jezziah attacking it - in an exact about turn of the discussions over THAT mural - if it wasn't just deeply depressing that this is what we have come to.

    I'm not sure people who voted for the woman who sent go home vans around the place have too much to feel high and mighty about.
    You cheerfully vote for Corbyn and I note you have actually given up trying to defend his track record on antisemitism. That said, so has he.

    The problem is less who we are voting for than the awfulness of the choice facing us. May at least had redeeming features - determination, intelligence and an ability to construct a vaguely coherent sentence. That's why I felt able to vote for her despite misgivings over some of her policies, especially as Labour had put forward a fantasy that would, if they even tried to implement it, have caused economic and social meltdown.

    But Corbyn and Johnson have none.
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    SouthamObserverSouthamObserver Posts: 38,937
    The Sun’s coverage confirms that Johnson’s proposition is unalloyed, populist, right-wing English nationalism.

    https://twitter.com/greenslader/status/1154304486195830784?s=21

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    TOPPINGTOPPING Posts: 41,314

    I’m a regular subscriber to the Spectator.

    One of the most irritating things about the election of Boris is how the magazine has gone completely doolally for him. It’s like it’s an in-house journalistic mouthpiece devoted to his advocacy and has lost all objectivity.

    This is disappointing as I usually rely on it as a useful and sober perspective on conservative politics.

    I may now have to look elsewhere for that.

    I gave up my subscription after one too many casually racist or prejudiced articles by Charles Moore.
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    ydoethurydoethur Posts: 67,287
    malcolmg said:

    ydoethur said:

    malcolmg said:
    I assure you Gloucester isn't a fantasy Malcolm, I lived there for several years.
    Yes but a poncy council seat does not a government make. It is the usual frenzy of fantasy on here. They are just as crap as they were last week, nothing has changed other than a different donkey is pulling the cart. If they are the answer then the country really is well and truly F****d, they are rank rotten, lying toerags without principles.
    PS: I am sure Gloucester is a very nice place.
    It isn't actually. The Cathedral close is charming and there are some fine buildings - the New Inn, St Mary de Crypt, and the Guildhall spring to mind. But most of it is a concrete jungle due to the tender mercies of a bunch of drunken paederasts, sorry, urban planners in the 1960s who made the architects of Euston look competent. The people also tend to be quite abrupt (cue jokes at my expense) and parochial.

    That is why, although I would agree with you about not taking parish (sic) council by-elections too seriously, I would say this is yet another indication of something rather strange going on. The Liberal Democrats should not be winning in Gloucester, especially not this bit, if it is business as usual.
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    MexicanpeteMexicanpete Posts: 25,220
    edited July 2019

    Good morning, everyone.

    Mr. P, interesting tweet, if accurate (loss of Grayling, very pro-leave and pro-Boris, indicates it might be). If Boris can't even get the hardliners behind him, he's got half a faction.

    Difficult to oust a PM. Not so hard to undermine one.

    We know he doesn’t have the votes to get the (or his) WA through the HoC. So it looks like he’ll either play Russian roulette with Parliament, or go for a GE if forced.

    There’s talk of these magical 40 Labour MPs who might somehow vote it through. They won’t materialise.

    Any Labour MPs voting with Johnson would almost certainly be voting to end their political careers. A few are standing down at the next GE, though, so he could get those. Hoey is a given.

    Is everyone left in the PLP so browbeaten, resigned or unambitious that they can't muster another challenge to Corbyn?

    Johnson has banked on an immediate bounce and that any significant electoral surge for the LDs will damage Labour MP numbers. Under FPTP this will enhance seat numbers for the Tories. The LDs excitement at knocking Labour into third in terms of vote share still leaves us with Johnson.

    Johnson can only be pegged back from his 35% voteshare landslide in two ways. A stronger-Corbyn-free Labour leading the charge or mass defections to the LDs by Corbyn-fearng Labour MPs. They need to get off their sorry rumps and do one or tge other.

    It speaks volumes too that good people on the Tory side like Grieve are so tribal they too feel they have to stay with the Party and hold their noses. I suspect many, many Tory voters opposed to Johnson will do the same.

    At present Johnson looks invincible, all the stars have aligned for a small window at least.
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    stodgestodge Posts: 12,864

    I’m a regular subscriber to the Spectator.

    One of the most irritating things about the election of Boris is how the magazine has gone completely doolally for him. It’s like it’s an in-house journalistic mouthpiece devoted to his advocacy and has lost all objectivity.

    This is disappointing as I usually rely on it as a useful and sober perspective on conservative politics.

    I may now have to look elsewhere for that.

    I'm not unsympathetic - there's no reason why there can't be a critique of the Johnson Government from the centre-right as well. Indeed, the most trenchant criticism of Osborne's economic policies in my view came not from the centre-left but from people like Allister Heath on the monetarist side.

    This is the problem generally and it's a big problem on here at the moment.

    The tit-for-tat knockabout where a pro-Labour poster has a go at the Conservatives and vice versa and everyone piles in on the LDs is tedious, time wasting pointless piffle. Too many on here do that - big up their own side, attack the other sides and walk away thinking they've contributed.

    No, a million times no and it's the same for those who criticise everyone. Relentless negativity about everyone is as tedious as relentless negativity about one side and relentless positivity about another side.

    The truly interesting posts and posters are those who dare to critique their own side and praise the opposition side. Genuine insight comes from recognising what your side is doing wrong and what the other side is doing right. Taking that insight and saying it out loud in a forum like this is a step.

    To fail to see the mote in one's own eye is as bad as claiming there's only a beam. Shutting down by bluster genuine scrutiny and criticism of your own side by your own side is authoritarian and ultimately counter-productive.

    Democracy works when people realise one side doesn't have all the answers or that one minority, or even a majority, are the only group that matters when it comes to policy setting. Parties in Government have a duty to the whole country not just those who voted for them or for a particular policy.
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    TOPPINGTOPPING Posts: 41,314
    I don't imagine the number of Lab MPs voting for the govt will change at all from the 5-6 that @NickPalmer assessed correctly many moons ago.
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    prh47bridgeprh47bridge Posts: 441

    I've got something similar here, not working in Chrome, although Firefox is OK. Been this way for a week or two.

    I can still see the embedded tweets in Firefox, though.

    These are the errors I'm getting - apparently Chrome is applying a content security policy and thinks it's not allowed to load the iframe from vanilla, but I can't see anything in the headers or the source code that sets that, so I guess it's just a setting that Chrome made up.

    https://pastebin.com/zxAf0p1h
    Looking at those headers and doing some digging, the policy is not being made up by Chrome. The response from Vanilla that contains the comments has a header which includes the directive "Content-Security-Policy: frame-ancestors 'self' www2.politicalbetting.com *politicalbetting.com". That tells the browser that it should only embed the comments in a page from the same source as the comments (i.e. politicalbetting.vanillacommunity.com) or from any domain ending politicalbetting.com. The www2.politicalbetting.com bit of the directive is actually redundant because that will also match *politicalbetting.com. So it appears that Chrome thinks the main page is not from politicalbetting.com but from some other domain. Strange.
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    SouthamObserverSouthamObserver Posts: 38,937

    Good morning, everyone.

    Mr. P, interesting tweet, if accurate (loss of Grayling, very pro-leave and pro-Boris, indicates it might be). If Boris can't even get the hardliners behind him, he's got half a faction.

    Difficult to oust a PM. Not so hard to undermine one.

    We know he doesn’t have the votes to get the (or his) WA through the HoC. So it looks like he’ll either play Russian roulette with Parliament, or go for a GE if forced.

    There’s talk of these magical 40 Labour MPs who might somehow vote it through. They won’t materialise.

    Any Labour MPs voting with Johnson would almost certainly be voting to end their political careers. A few are standing down at the next GE, though, so he could get those. Hoey is a given.

    Is everyone left in the PLP so browbeaten, resigned or unambitious that they can't muster another challenge to Corbyn?

    Johnson has banked on an immediate bounce and that any significant electoral surge for the LDs will damage Labour MP numbers. Under FPTP this will enhance seat numbers for the Tories. The LDs excitement at knocking Labour into third in terms of vote share still leaves us with Johnson.

    Johnson can only be pegged back from his 35% voteshare landslide in two ways. A stronger-Corbyn-free Labour leading the charge or mass defections to the LDs by Corbyn-fearng Labour MPs. They need to get off their sorry rumps and do one or tge other.

    It speaks volumes too that good people on the Tory side like Grieve are so tribal they too feel they have to stay with the Party and hold their noses. I suspect many, many Tory voters opposed to Johnson will do the same.

    At present Johnson looks invincible, all the stars have aligned for a small window at least.

    Labour members continue to prioritise Jeremy Corbyn’s leadership over defeating the Tories. Until that changes MPs are hamstrung. The last 24 hours have shown just how peripheral Labour is to the debate now. It was neatly encapsulated yesterday in the party’s failure to back a VONC and that hilariously embarrassing rally in Parliament Square in which Corbyn mouthed the usual platitudes to a few hundred random Trots and members of the SWP. Glastonbury 2017 seems like an age ago.

  • Options
    StuartDicksonStuartDickson Posts: 12,146

    I’m a regular subscriber to the Spectator.

    One of the most irritating things about the election of Boris is how the magazine has gone completely doolally for him. It’s like it’s an in-house journalistic mouthpiece devoted to his advocacy and has lost all objectivity.

    This is disappointing as I usually rely on it as a useful and sober perspective on conservative politics.

    I may now have to look elsewhere for that.

    The Spectator is a product by spotty student politicos, for spotty student politicos. (Of all ages.)

    After three years of stern austerity, the spotty student right is now fully in charge of the former Conservative and Unionist Party.

    The magazine isn’t actually like that actually, it’s really rather good, but the editorial lines have deteriorated and it’s starting to affect the political analysis.
    In a competition between Viz, The National, Private Eye, The Economist and The Spectator, The Spectator always comes in last place, so, excluding the free articles I’m allowed and a cheeky free-read at library/newsagent, I’ll have to take your word for it.
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    CiceroCicero Posts: 2,228
    malcolmg said:

    AndyJS said:

    "Meet Carrie Symonds, The Most-Watched Woman In Westminster"

    https://www.vogue.co.uk/article/who-is-carrie-symonds

    Usual Horses arses faced Tory. Far too much inbreeding down there.
    Apart from the Nippy Sweetie and The Accused, is there anyone in politics you actually like Malc?

    Genuine question.
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    DecrepitJohnLDecrepitJohnL Posts: 13,300
    New Scientist has a look at what Boris said about science and technology in his opening statement.
    https://www.newscientist.com/article/2211206-awkward-truths-about-boris-johnsons-praise-for-uk-science-and-tech/

    Though NS does not say it, one can't help wondering if Boris's praise for GMO crops is preparing us to roll over for American demands as part of an FTA.
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    TheJezziahTheJezziah Posts: 3,840
    ydoethur said:

    ydoethur said:

    It would be amusing to see Casino Royale defending racism among Boris' acolytes and The Jezziah attacking it - in an exact about turn of the discussions over THAT mural - if it wasn't just deeply depressing that this is what we have come to.

    I'm not sure people who voted for the woman who sent go home vans around the place have too much to feel high and mighty about.
    You cheerfully vote for Corbyn and I note you have actually given up trying to defend his track record on antisemitism. That said, so has he.

    The problem is less who we are voting for than the awfulness of the choice facing us. May at least had redeeming features - determination, intelligence and an ability to construct a vaguely coherent sentence. That's why I felt able to vote for her despite misgivings over some of her policies, especially as Labour had put forward a fantasy that would, if they even tried to implement it, have caused economic and social meltdown.

    But Corbyn and Johnson have none.
    Hmm that is strange... you made a comment about my lack of defence but I have searched your comment and can't find your defence of the racism and xenophobia you voted for?

    Being a little hypocritical are we?

    Also I can understand why the no deal rhetoric would sound like intelligence and economic competence to a certain kind of person, just not an intelligent or economically competent one.
  • Options
    GardenwalkerGardenwalker Posts: 20,857
    The Spectator started going downhill when Boris took over. It used to be witty and acute. Boris made it more lifestyle, tribal and boring.
  • Options
    StuartDicksonStuartDickson Posts: 12,146

    I've got something similar here, not working in Chrome, although Firefox is OK. Been this way for a week or two.

    I can still see the embedded tweets in Firefox, though.

    These are the errors I'm getting - apparently Chrome is applying a content security policy and thinks it's not allowed to load the iframe from vanilla, but I can't see anything in the headers or the source code that sets that, so I guess it's just a setting that Chrome made up.

    https://pastebin.com/zxAf0p1h
    Looking at those headers and doing some digging, the policy is not being made up by Chrome. The response from Vanilla that contains the comments has a header which includes the directive "Content-Security-Policy: frame-ancestors 'self' www2.politicalbetting.com *politicalbetting.com". That tells the browser that it should only embed the comments in a page from the same source as the comments (i.e. politicalbetting.vanillacommunity.com) or from any domain ending politicalbetting.com. The www2.politicalbetting.com bit of the directive is actually redundant because that will also match *politicalbetting.com. So it appears that Chrome thinks the main page is not from politicalbetting.com but from some other domain. Strange.
    PB has always been strange technically, right from the start.

    Nothing to do with technical problems, but I’m just curious as to why PB is absent from FB? Just seems a bit old-fashioned to be invisible there.
  • Options
    StuartDicksonStuartDickson Posts: 12,146

    New Scientist has a look at what Boris said about science and technology in his opening statement.
    https://www.newscientist.com/article/2211206-awkward-truths-about-boris-johnsons-praise-for-uk-science-and-tech/

    Though NS does not say it, one can't help wondering if Boris's praise for GMO crops is preparing us to roll over for American demands as part of an FTA.

    Yes.
  • Options
    YBarddCwscYBarddCwsc Posts: 7,172
    stodge said:



    I'm not unsympathetic - there's no reason why there can't be a critique of the Johnson Government from the centre-right as well. Indeed, the most trenchant criticism of Osborne's economic policies in my view came not from the centre-left but from people like Allister Heath on the monetarist side.

    This is the problem generally and it's a big problem on here at the moment.

    The tit-for-tat knockabout where a pro-Labour poster has a go at the Conservatives and vice versa and everyone piles in on the LDs is tedious, time wasting pointless piffle. Too many on here do that - big up their own side, attack the other sides and walk away thinking they've contributed.

    No, a million times no and it's the same for those who criticise everyone. Relentless negativity about everyone is as tedious as relentless negativity about one side and relentless positivity about another side.

    The truly interesting posts and posters are those who dare to critique their own side and praise the opposition side. Genuine insight comes from recognising what your side is doing wrong and what the other side is doing right. Taking that insight and saying it out loud in a forum like this is a step.

    To fail to see the mote in one's own eye is as bad as claiming there's only a beam. Shutting down by bluster genuine scrutiny and criticism of your own side by your own side is authoritarian and ultimately counter-productive.

    Democracy works when people realise one side doesn't have all the answers or that one minority, or even a majority, are the only group that matters when it comes to policy setting. Parties in Government have a duty to the whole country not just those who voted for them or for a particular policy.

    As usual, a very pious posting from a LibDem ... who actually are some of the worst offenders on here.

    When I said I had once voted LibDem, and would never again, I particularly remember a poster who suggested (fallaciously) that I had made up this electoral story.

    That poster's name .. err, stodge.

    But, this is a typical LibDem act. The bad boys & girls are the Tories and Labour and the SNP who behave like little children, while the "grown up" LibDem party is above such childishness.

    The ex Tory MP for Brecon is a "crook" for minor troughing, but the LibDems caught troughing (like David Laws who makes Chris Davies look like a small time apprentice) escape all censure.

    Who in the LibDems ever called David Laws a crook? Or censured him at the time?
  • Options
    JackWJackW Posts: 14,787
    edited July 2019

    Good morning, everyone.

    Mr. P, interesting tweet, if accurate (loss of Grayling, very pro-leave and pro-Boris, indicates it might be). If Boris can't even get the hardliners behind him, he's got half a faction.

    Difficult to oust a PM. Not so hard to undermine one.

    We know he doesn’t have the votes to get the (or his) WA through the HoC. So it looks like he’ll either play Russian roulette with Parliament, or go for a GE if forced.

    There’s talk of these magical 40 Labour MPs who might somehow vote it through. They won’t materialise.

    Any Labour MPs voting with Johnson would almost certainly be voting to end their political careers. A few are standing down at the next GE, though, so he could get those. Hoey is a given.

    Is everyone left in the PLP so browbeaten, resigned or unambitious that they can't muster another challenge to Corbyn?

    Johnson has banked on an immediate bounce and that any significant electoral surge for the LDs will damage Labour MP numbers. Under FPTP this will enhance seat numbers for the Tories. The LDs excitement at knocking Labour into third in terms of vote share still leaves us with Johnson.

    Johnson can only be pegged back from his 35% voteshare landslide in two ways. A stronger-Corbyn-free Labour leading the charge or mass defections to the LDs by Corbyn-fearng Labour MPs. They need to get off their sorry rumps and do one or tge other.

    It speaks volumes too that good people on the Tory side like Grieve are so tribal they too feel they have to stay with the Party and hold their noses. I suspect many, many Tory voters opposed to Johnson will do the same.

    At present Johnson looks invincible, all the stars have aligned for a small window at least.
    The small window may already be shut.

    Let us assume that both of the ideal scenarios for Boris come to pass - Firstly he delivers BREXIT and Farage and co drift toward single figures or secondly having failed to deliver BREXIT in October he goes for a general election on a No Deal prospectus.

    The small window might be firmly locked by the reality of economic difficulties as aspects of "Project Fear" begin to take shape and the optics become sub-optimal. Relying on the competence of this administration to steer a steady course might be considered a tad optimistic although in fairness the curse of Grayling has been lifted - a sliver of hope emerges ..... :smile:
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    ydoethurydoethur Posts: 67,287

    ydoethur said:

    ydoethur said:

    It would be amusing to see Casino Royale defending racism among Boris' acolytes and The Jezziah attacking it - in an exact about turn of the discussions over THAT mural - if it wasn't just deeply depressing that this is what we have come to.

    I'm not sure people who voted for the woman who sent go home vans around the place have too much to feel high and mighty about.
    You cheerfully vote for Corbyn and I note you have actually given up trying to defend his track record on antisemitism. That said, so has he.

    The problem is less who we are voting for than the awfulness of the choice facing us. May at least had redeeming features - determination, intelligence and an ability to construct a vaguely coherent sentence. That's why I felt able to vote for her despite misgivings over some of her policies, especially as Labour had put forward a fantasy that would, if they even tried to implement it, have caused economic and social meltdown.

    But Corbyn and Johnson have none.
    Hmm that is strange... you made a comment about my lack of defence but I have searched your comment and can't find your defence of the racism and xenophobia you voted for?

    Being a little hypocritical are we?

    Also I can understand why the no deal rhetoric would sound like intelligence and economic competence to a certain kind of person, just not an intelligent or economically competent one.
    I have never supported no deal rhetoric. If you have nothing to say, at least don't make things up.

    And I note you still haven't addressed the main point. Don't you find it depressing that at the moment we have simple tribal mudslinging over racism, when it's eating its way into both main parties (and it's not as though the Liberal Democrats, the Greens and SNP are immune, and as for UKIP and the Faragistas...)

    I'm more concerned that instead of its being addressed as a general problem that needs sorting out, it's being used in an attempt to score political points - as you are doing.
  • Options
    ydoethurydoethur Posts: 67,287

    The ex Tory MP for Brecon is a "crook" for minor troughing

    To be exact, for falsifying a document to support an expenses claim.

    Which should bar him from Parliament for terminal stupidity, frankly.
  • Options
    YBarddCwscYBarddCwsc Posts: 7,172
    ydoethur said:

    The ex Tory MP for Brecon is a "crook" for minor troughing

    To be exact, for falsifying a document to support an expenses claim.

    Which should bar him from Parliament for terminal stupidity, frankly.
    I am afraid if we bar the terminally stupid from Parliament, the House of Commons will be almost empty.
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    StuartDicksonStuartDickson Posts: 12,146
    Stodge: “Parties in Government have a duty to the whole country not just those who voted for them or for a particular policy.”

    Very old-fashioned. Quaint even.

    By that criterion, out of the five governments in these islands, only the ones in Dublin and Edinburgh are fulfilling their duty.
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    Morris_DancerMorris_Dancer Posts: 60,987
    Mr. Cwsc, we'd have a better PM, though.
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    TheJezziahTheJezziah Posts: 3,840
    ydoethur said:

    ydoethur said:

    ydoethur said:

    It would be amusing to see Casino Royale defending racism among Boris' acolytes and The Jezziah attacking it - in an exact about turn of the discussions over THAT mural - if it wasn't just deeply depressing that this is what we have come to.

    I'm not sure people who voted for the woman who sent go home vans around the place have too much to feel high and mighty about.
    You cheerfully vote for Corbyn and I note you have actually given up trying to defend his track record on antisemitism. That said, so has he.

    The problem is less who we are voting for than the awfulness of the choice facing us. May at least had redeeming features - determination, intelligence and an ability to construct a vaguely coherent sentence. That's why I felt able to vote for her despite misgivings over some of her policies, especially as Labour had put forward a fantasy that would, if they even tried to implement it, have caused economic and social meltdown.

    But Corbyn and Johnson have none.
    Hmm that is strange... you made a comment about my lack of defence but I have searched your comment and can't find your defence of the racism and xenophobia you voted for?

    Being a little hypocritical are we?

    Also I can understand why the no deal rhetoric would sound like intelligence and economic competence to a certain kind of person, just not an intelligent or economically competent one.
    I have never supported no deal rhetoric. If you have nothing to say, at least don't make things up.

    And I note you still haven't addressed the main point. Don't you find it depressing that at the moment we have simple tribal mudslinging over racism, when it's eating its way into both main parties (and it's not as though the Liberal Democrats, the Greens and SNP are immune, and as for UKIP and the Faragistas...)

    I'm more concerned that instead of its being addressed as a general problem that needs sorting out, it's being used in an attempt to score political points - as you are doing.
    I don't think you are deeply concerned at all, you have been consistent in using it as a political weapon against Corbyn who you oppose for other reasons and now when I call you out on your own voting all of a sudden you are concerned about it being used for political point scoring?!

    Not buying it.

    It was May's rhetoric and you who said she was intelligent, you didn't mention economic competence though (I seemed to imagine that part...)
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    El_CapitanoEl_Capitano Posts: 3,870

    I've got something similar here, not working in Chrome, although Firefox is OK. Been this way for a week or two.

    I can still see the embedded tweets in Firefox, though.

    These are the errors I'm getting - apparently Chrome is applying a content security policy and thinks it's not allowed to load the iframe from vanilla, but I can't see anything in the headers or the source code that sets that, so I guess it's just a setting that Chrome made up.

    https://pastebin.com/zxAf0p1h
    Looking at those headers and doing some digging, the policy is not being made up by Chrome. The response from Vanilla that contains the comments has a header which includes the directive "Content-Security-Policy: frame-ancestors 'self' www2.politicalbetting.com *politicalbetting.com". That tells the browser that it should only embed the comments in a page from the same source as the comments (i.e. politicalbetting.vanillacommunity.com) or from any domain ending politicalbetting.com. The www2.politicalbetting.com bit of the directive is actually redundant because that will also match *politicalbetting.com. So it appears that Chrome thinks the main page is not from politicalbetting.com but from some other domain. Strange.
    Off the top of my head (am on mobile, on holiday) I doubt *politicalbetting.com is valid. It should presumably be *.politicalbetting.com, i.e. with a dot to denote subdomain.

    Very interesting Gloucestershire comments. I’m keeping a particular eye on Cotswold as it borders my area (West Oxfordshire) and is similar politically - indeed the two are outsourcing partners. It’s possible, even likely, WODC will fall to NOC next time.
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    SouthamObserverSouthamObserver Posts: 38,937
    JackW said:

    Good morning, everyone.

    Mr. P, interesting tweet, if accurate (loss of Grayling, very pro-leave and pro-Boris, indicates it might be). If Boris can't even get the hardliners behind him, he's got half a faction.

    Difficult to oust a PM. Not so hard to undermine one.

    We know he doesn’t have the votes to get the (or his) WA through the HoC. So it looks like he’ll either play Russian roulette with Parliament, or go for a GE if forced.

    There’s talk of these magical 40 Labour MPs who might somehow vote it through. They won’t materialise.

    Any Labour MPs voting with Johnson would almost certainly be voting to end their political careers. A few are standing down at the next GE, though, so he could get those. Hoey is a given.

    Is everyone left in the PLP so browbeaten, resigned or unambitious that they can't muster another challenge to Corbyn?

    Johnson has banked on an immediate bounce and that any significant electoral surge for the LDs will damage Labour MP numbers. Under FPTP this will enhance seat numbers for the Tories. The LDs excitement at knocking Labour into third in terms of vote share still leaves us with Johnson.

    Johnson can only be pegged back from his 35% voteshare landslide in two ways. A stronger-Corbyn-free Labour leading the charge or mass defections to the LDs by Corbyn-fearng Labour MPs. They need to get off their sorry rumps and do one or tge other.

    It speaks volumes too that good people on the Tory side like Grieve are so tribal they too feel they have to stay with the Party and hold their noses. I suspect many, many Tory voters opposed to Johnson will do the same.

    At present Johnson looks invincible, all the stars have aligned for a small window at least.
    The small window may already be shut.

    Let us assume that both of the ideal scenarios for Boris come to pass - Firstly he delivers BREXIT and Farage and co drift toward single figures or secondly having failed to deliver BREXIT in October he goes for a general election on a No Deal prospectus.

    The small window might be firmly locked by the reality of economic difficulties as aspects of "Project Fear" begin to take shape and the optics become sub-optimal. Relying on the competence of this administration to steer a steady course might be considered a tad optimistic although in fairness the curse of Grayling has been lifted - a sliver of hope emerges ..... :smile:

    What is remarkable about Johnson’s Cabinet is that Grayling is not in it, but it is still of lower calibre than May’s dire efforts. Williamson at Education is perhaps the worst Cabinet appointment of all time, although Raab at FCO and Patel at the Home Office run it close.

  • Options
    EndillionEndillion Posts: 4,976
    Streeter said:

    Endillion said:

    https://twitter.com/Otto_English/status/1154438815395864578

    https://www.britainfirst.org/best_politically_incorrect_boris_quotes

    I figure it would be easier just to list the far right groups that don't like Boris... Just have to find one first.

    If I was accustomed to giving credence to such arguments, I'd point out that Putin will presumably be unutterably furious at Johnson's elevation, but would be delighted should he be replaced by your friend from Islington.
    On what is your presumption based?
    Salisbury.
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    RogerRoger Posts: 18,891
    edited July 2019
    Just been listening to Radio 5. Nikki Campbell has just given Kit Malthouse both barrels because his chum Mark Francois referred to 'Junker in the bunker' on Newsnight last night. "Do you think that's acceptable language?" "Does your friend and colleague have the slightest idea what happened to Luxembourg when the Germans invaded in 1940?"

    Lot's of spluttering by the hapless Malthouse. A small sliver of Achilles Heel showing. Like UKIP it's easy to forget the Tories now have their own nutters. Not least Johnson himself.
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    TheJezziahTheJezziah Posts: 3,840

    Good morning, everyone.

    Mr. P, interesting tweet, if accurate (loss of Grayling, very pro-leave and pro-Boris, indicates it might be). If Boris can't even get the hardliners behind him, he's got half a faction.

    Difficult to oust a PM. Not so hard to undermine one.

    We know he doesn’t have the votes to get the (or his) WA through the HoC. So it looks like he’ll either play Russian roulette with Parliament, or go for a GE if forced.

    There’s talk of these magical 40 Labour MPs who might somehow vote it through. They won’t materialise.

    Any Labour MPs voting with Johnson would almost certainly be voting to end their political careers. A few are standing down at the next GE, though, so he could get those. Hoey is a given.

    Is everyone left in the PLP so browbeaten, resigned or unambitious that they can't muster another challenge to Corbyn?

    Johnson has banked on an immediate bounce and that any significant electoral surge for the LDs will damage Labour MP numbers. Under FPTP this will enhance seat numbers for the Tories. The LDs excitement at knocking Labour into third in terms of vote share still leaves us with Johnson.

    Johnson can only be pegged back from his 35% voteshare landslide in two ways. A stronger-Corbyn-free Labour leading the charge or mass defections to the LDs by Corbyn-fearng Labour MPs. They need to get off their sorry rumps and do one or tge other.

    It speaks volumes too that good people on the Tory side like Grieve are so tribal they too feel they have to stay with the Party and hold their noses. I suspect many, many Tory voters opposed to Johnson will do the same.

    At present Johnson looks invincible, all the stars have aligned for a small window at least.
    Johnson and his cabinet from hell has probably helped unite Labour, even some of Corbyn's biggest enemies would rather a Corbyn led Labour government than the current one continuing.
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    SandyRentoolSandyRentool Posts: 20,632
    Clearly the transport system cannot cope without the masterful oversight of Chris Grayling.
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    EndillionEndillion Posts: 4,976

    Endillion said:

    https://twitter.com/Otto_English/status/1154438815395864578

    https://www.britainfirst.org/best_politically_incorrect_boris_quotes

    I figure it would be easier just to list the far right groups that don't like Boris... Just have to find one first.

    If I was accustomed to giving credence to such arguments, I'd point out that Putin will presumably be unutterably furious at Johnson's elevation, but would be delighted should he be replaced by your friend from Islington.
    Putin is no doubt very happy with Boris Johnson’s elevation too. I have no idea why you might think otherwise.
    I think you're looking at geopolitics solely through the lens of Brexit, in which case you're probably right. I'm taking a broader view, in which their interests most definitely do not align, regardless of conspiracy theories about links with Bannon etc. It's similar to how Trump and Putin on paper are very close, but Trump was prepared to bomb Syria when Russia overreached, while Obama chickened out in similar circumstances. The one good thing Johnson did at the Foreign Office was the response to Russia on Salisbury.
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    Morris_DancerMorris_Dancer Posts: 60,987
    edited July 2019
    F1: current forecast is 67% of thundery showers during qualifying and 50% or so for every hour of the race.

    Edited extra bit: still think the 10 each way (fifth the odds top three) on Verstappen in qualifying is worth considering.
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    NigelbNigelb Posts: 62,631

    https://twitter.com/Otto_English/status/1154438815395864578

    https://www.britainfirst.org/best_politically_incorrect_boris_quotes

    I figure it would be easier just to list the far right groups that don't like Boris... Just have to find one first.

    Chloe Westley isn’t far-right, she’s an Australian neo-Thatcherite.

    I know there’s no difference in the eyes of the Left but the fascist labelling and comparisons became very tiresome a long time ago.
    Isn't the whole point of that tweet providing the evidence that she's not just a neo-Thatcherite?
    No. The tweet is a smear.

    We see this all the time. Like when similar Conservatives are accused of being racist or fascist (or both) for appearing at a debate with the wrong sort of people. Personally, I think Chloe is too ideological but she’s not unpleasant and nor is she is a racist.

    If there’s prima facie evidence of her having wholly unpalatable views then let’s hear it.

    Until then it’s just a crude political attempt to damage the Government by reaching into the past and smearing her by association, which is being an institutional speciality of social media. Probably because it’s effective far too often.
    It's of course possible that the tweet was a mistake, or that she's since changed her views, but referring to her having calling an open bigot a "hero" is hardly smearing by association.
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    AlastairMeeksAlastairMeeks Posts: 30,340
    Endillion said:

    Streeter said:

    Endillion said:

    https://twitter.com/Otto_English/status/1154438815395864578

    https://www.britainfirst.org/best_politically_incorrect_boris_quotes

    I figure it would be easier just to list the far right groups that don't like Boris... Just have to find one first.

    If I was accustomed to giving credence to such arguments, I'd point out that Putin will presumably be unutterably furious at Johnson's elevation, but would be delighted should he be replaced by your friend from Islington.
    On what is your presumption based?
    Salisbury.
    1) Boris Johnson doesn't care about Salisbury. He cares so little that he ducked out of a Cobra briefing on the subject to be photographed resigning.

    2) In the grand scheme of things, Salisbury doesn't matter much to Vladimir Putin anyway. His main strategic aim in Europe is to foment chaos and disorder, so he can divide and rule. Boris Johnson is an ideal choice from that perspective.
  • Options
    NigelbNigelb Posts: 62,631
    ydoethur said:

    https://twitter.com/Otto_English/status/1154438815395864578

    https://www.britainfirst.org/best_politically_incorrect_boris_quotes

    I figure it would be easier just to list the far right groups that don't like Boris... Just have to find one first.

    Chloe Westley isn’t far-right, she’s an Australian neo-Thatcherite.

    I know there’s no difference in the eyes of the Left but the fascist labelling and comparisons became very tiresome a long time ago.
    Isn't the whole point of that tweet providing the evidence that she's not just a neo-Thatcherite?
    No. The tweet is a smear.

    We see this all the time. Like when similar Conservatives are accused of being racist or fascist (or both) for appearing at a debate with the wrong sort of people. Personally, I think Chloe is too ideological but she’s not unpleasant and nor is she is a racist.

    If there’s prima facie evidence of her having wholly unpalatable views then let’s hear it.

    Until then it’s just a crude political attempt to damage the Government by reaching into the past and smearing her by association, which is being an institutional speciality of social media. Probably because it’s effective far too often.
    So is the tweet attributed to her a fake?
    The original is not, no. The retweet is trying to dogwhistle her as a racist.

    That’s the smear.
    Just for reference do you mean this part tweeted by Otto English?

    'In 2016 Boris Johnson's new digital adviser Chloe Westley enthusiastically backed renowned racist Ann Marie Waters who had just set up Pergida UK with one Tommy Robinson.

    I see Westley has been deleting old tweets including this.'

    Which part of that is untrue?

    She is Boris Johnson's new digital advisor
    She tweeted that in 2016
    Calling someone a hero = enthusiastic backing
    That Anne Marie Waters is a racist
    That she had just set up Pergida UK with Tommy Robinson

    Or that Chloe deleted it?
    It would be amusing to see Casino Royale defending racism among Boris' acolytes and The Jezziah attacking it - in an exact about turn of the discussions over THAT mural - if it wasn't just deeply depressing that this is what we have come to.
    I believe the term is sophistry. It crosses political boundaries.
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    stodgestodge Posts: 12,864


    As usual, a very pious posting from a LibDem ... who actually are some of the worst offenders on here.

    When I said I had once voted LibDem, and would never again, I particularly remember a poster who suggested (fallaciously) that I had made up this electoral story.

    That poster's name .. err, stodge.

    But, this is a typical LibDem act. The bad boys & girls are the Tories and Labour and the SNP who behave like little children, while the "grown up" LibDem party is above such childishness.

    The ex Tory MP for Brecon is a "crook" for minor troughing, but the LibDems caught troughing (like David Laws who makes Chris Davies look like a small time apprentice) escape all censure.

    Who in the LibDems ever called David Laws a crook? Or censured him at the time?

    Pious, eh, I've been called worse.

    I regularly criticise my own party on its policies and what it has done and, yes, I critique some of the other parties but I lack the tunnel vision of those who think only one party is ever in the wrong and only one party never criticises its own.

    You'd better believe a lot of LDs weren't happy with Laws but in truth many were happy to see him go as he was seen as the extreme end of the Orange Bookers who were ideologically perceived to be too close to Cameron's so-called "liberal conservatism".

    You don't like the LDs and think we're all a bunch of hypocrites, then? Fair enough, I'll put you down as a "maybe".

    If, however, I impugned you by accusing you of making up a story about having once voted Liberal Democrat, I'm happy to apologise and retract my comment. Clearly, you did once vote LD and have decided you can do so no longer. Fair enough.
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    TheJezziahTheJezziah Posts: 3,840
    edited July 2019

    Endillion said:

    Streeter said:

    Endillion said:

    https://twitter.com/Otto_English/status/1154438815395864578

    https://www.britainfirst.org/best_politically_incorrect_boris_quotes

    I figure it would be easier just to list the far right groups that don't like Boris... Just have to find one first.

    If I was accustomed to giving credence to such arguments, I'd point out that Putin will presumably be unutterably furious at Johnson's elevation, but would be delighted should he be replaced by your friend from Islington.
    On what is your presumption based?
    Salisbury.
    1) Boris Johnson doesn't care about Salisbury. He cares so little that he ducked out of a Cobra briefing on the subject to be photographed resigning.

    2) In the grand scheme of things, Salisbury doesn't matter much to Vladimir Putin anyway. His main strategic aim in Europe is to foment chaos and disorder, so he can divide and rule. Boris Johnson is an ideal choice from that perspective.
    It is almost a struggle to come up with two better picks than Boris and Trump, Farage maybe, but from a Putin perspective those 2 and their policies are almost perfect.

    It isn't for nothing that Putin seems to go for populist right wing Eurosceptic parties, the pattern repeats over a few countries.

  • Options
    HYUFDHYUFD Posts: 117,028

    I've got something similar here, not working in Chrome, although Firefox is OK. Been this way for a week or two.

    I can still see the embedded tweets in Firefox, though.

    These are the errors I'm getting - apparently Chrome is applying a content security policy and thinks it's not allowed to load the iframe from vanilla, but I can't see anything in the headers or the source code that sets that, so I guess it's just a setting that Chrome made up.

    https://pastebin.com/zxAf0p1h
    Looking at those headers and doing some digging, the policy is not being made up by Chrome. The response from Vanilla that contains the comments has a header which includes the directive "Content-Security-Policy: frame-ancestors 'self' www2.politicalbetting.com *politicalbetting.com". That tells the browser that it should only embed the comments in a page from the same source as the comments (i.e. politicalbetting.vanillacommunity.com) or from any domain ending politicalbetting.com. The www2.politicalbetting.com bit of the directive is actually redundant because that will also match *politicalbetting.com. So it appears that Chrome thinks the main page is not from politicalbetting.com but from some other domain. Strange.
    Off the top of my head (am on mobile, on holiday) I doubt *politicalbetting.com is valid. It should presumably be *.politicalbetting.com, i.e. with a dot to denote subdomain.

    Very interesting Gloucestershire comments. I’m keeping a particular eye on Cotswold as it borders my area (West Oxfordshire) and is similar politically - indeed the two are outsourcing partners. It’s possible, even likely, WODC will fall to NOC next time.
    South Oxfordshire and Vale of White Horse already are LD.

    Remain voting West Oxfordshire could go too but Leave voting Cherwell (the only Leave area in Oxfordshire) is still pretty solid Tory
  • Options
    stodgestodge Posts: 12,864

    Stodge: “Parties in Government have a duty to the whole country not just those who voted for them or for a particular policy.”

    Very old-fashioned. Quaint even.

    By that criterion, out of the five governments in these islands, only the ones in Dublin and Edinburgh are fulfilling their duty.

    You may well be right but that's how I see it, my friend. We can't have a Government in Westminster whose sole concerns are those who voted for one option in a referendum over three years ago. It sounds absurd just writing it.

    The world has moved on yet the UK seems as always stuck in the ruts of its own history.
  • Options
    HYUFDHYUFD Posts: 117,028

    JackW said:

    Good morning, everyone.

    Mr. P, interesting tweet, if accurate (loss of Grayling, very pro-leave and pro-Boris, indicates it might be). If Boris can't even get the hardliners behind him, he's got half a faction.

    Difficult to oust a PM. Not so hard to undermine one.

    We know he doesn’t have the votes to get the (or his) WA through the HoC. So it looks like he’ll either play Russian roulette with Parliament, or go for a GE if forced.

    There’s talk of these magical 40 Labour MPs who might somehow vote it through. They won’t materialise.

    Any Labour MPs voting with Johnson would almost certainly be voting to end their political careers. A few are standing down at the next GE, though, so he could get those. Hoey is a given.

    Is everyone left in the PLP so browbeaten, resigned or unambitious that they can't muster another challenge to Corbyn?

    Johnson has banked on an immediate bounce and the Tory side like Grieve are so tribal they too feel they have to stay with the Party and hold their noses. I suspect many, many Tory voters opposed to Johnson will do the same.

    At present Johnson looks invincible, all the stars have aligned for a small window at least.
    The small window may already be shut.

    Let us assume that both of the ideal scenarios for Boris come to pass - Firstly he delivers BREXIT and Farage and co drift toward single figures or secondly having failed to deliver BREXIT in October he goes for a general election on a No Deal prospectus.

    The small window might be firmly locked by the reality of economic difficulties as aspects of "Project Fear" begin to take shape and the optics become sub-optimal. Relying on the competence of this administration to steer a steady course might be considered a tad optimistic although in fairness the curse of Grayling has been lifted - a sliver of hope emerges ..... :smile:

    What is remarkable about Johnson’s Cabinet is that Grayling is not in it, but it is still of lower calibre than May’s dire efforts. Williamson at Education is perhaps the worst Cabinet appointment of all time, although Raab at FCO and Patel at the Home Office run it close.

    Panel's tough on crime message will go down well with working class voters
  • Options
    SquareRootSquareRoot Posts: 7,095

    The Spectator started going downhill when Boris took over. It used to be witty and acute. Boris made it more lifestyle, tribal and boring.

    You mean he tried to make it accessible to a wider audience.....
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    kle4kle4 Posts: 91,798
    Scott_P said:

    Boris Johnson’s attempts to lock in the support of hardline Tory Eurosceptics suffered a serious blow last night after one of the most senior Brexiteer MPs angrily turned down a ministerial role.

    In the first rift between the new prime minister and the faction that backed him for the leadership, Steve Baker told Mr Johnson that a job in the Brexit department would have left him “powerless”.

    Tory Eurosceptics accused Mr Johnson of “binning off” the European Research Group of Brexiteers now that he was in power. They blamed Dominic Cummings, the former head of Vote Leave, who has been appointed the most senior adviser in Downing Street.


    https://www.thetimes.co.uk/edition/news/tory-right-s-anger-over-dominic-cummings-job-as-senior-aide-to-johnson-75k5m69n9

    Unsatisfiable. Boris has a lot of unreasonable people to grapple with, let's see how long his optimistic attitude lasts.
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    HYUFDHYUFD Posts: 117,028
    edited July 2019

    The Sun’s coverage confirms that Johnson’s proposition is unalloyed, populist, right-wing English nationalism.

    https://twitter.com/greenslader/status/1154304486195830784?s=21

    No, it confirms Murdoch's main interest is his profits.

    In 2017 the English and Welsh Sun backed the Tories while the Scottish Sun backed the SNP.

    The Sun also backed Blair 3 times, the Sun is the only national UK paper to have endorsed the winner at every UK general election since 1979
  • Options
    TOPPINGTOPPING Posts: 41,314

    The Spectator started going downhill when Boris took over. It used to be witty and acute. Boris made it more lifestyle, tribal and boring.

    You mean he tried to make it accessible to a wider audience.....
    Yep. Like Love Island.
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    ydoethurydoethur Posts: 67,287

    ydoethur said:

    The ex Tory MP for Brecon is a "crook" for minor troughing

    To be exact, for falsifying a document to support an expenses claim.

    Which should bar him from Parliament for terminal stupidity, frankly.
    I am afraid if we bar the terminally stupid from Parliament, the House of Commons will be almost empty.
    And that would be a bad thing?!!
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    AlastairMeeksAlastairMeeks Posts: 30,340

    Endillion said:

    Streeter said:

    Endillion said:

    https://twitter.com/Otto_English/status/1154438815395864578

    https://www.britainfirst.org/best_politically_incorrect_boris_quotes

    I figure it would be easier just to list the far right groups that don't like Boris... Just have to find one first.

    If I was accustomed to giving credence to such arguments, I'd point out that Putin will presumably be unutterably furious at Johnson's elevation, but would be delighted should he be replaced by your friend from Islington.
    On what is your presumption based?
    Salisbury.
    1) Boris Johnson doesn't care about Salisbury. He cares so little that he ducked out of a Cobra briefing on the subject to be photographed resigning.

    2) In the grand scheme of things, Salisbury doesn't matter much to Vladimir Putin anyway. His main strategic aim in Europe is to foment chaos and disorder, so he can divide and rule. Boris Johnson is an ideal choice from that perspective.
    It is almost a struggle to come up with two better picks than Boris and Trump, Farage maybe, but from a Putin perspective those 2 and their policies are almost perfect.

    It isn't for nothing that Putin seems to go for populist right wing Eurosceptic parties, the pattern repeats over a few countries.

    Jeremy Corbyn would be a top pick for Vladimir Putin too. The destruction of NATO is a strategic objective and he'd effectively achieve it then without a shot being fired.
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    SquareRootSquareRoot Posts: 7,095
    TOPPING said:

    The Spectator started going downhill when Boris took over. It used to be witty and acute. Boris made it more lifestyle, tribal and boring.

    You mean he tried to make it accessible to a wider audience.....
    Yep. Like Love Island.
    NO Love Island is the reverse. I think trying to make even the C2 D's and E's lose interest. The mere mention of it gets people sighing with disgust.
  • Options
    ydoethurydoethur Posts: 67,287

    ydoethur said:

    ydoethur said:

    ydoethur said:

    It would be amusing to see Casino Royale defending racism among Boris' acolytes and The Jezziah attacking it - in an exact about turn of the discussions over THAT mural - if it wasn't just deeply depressing that this is what we have come to.

    I'm not sure people who voted for the woman who sent go home vans around the place have too much to feel high and mighty about.
    You cheerfully vote for Corbyn and I note you have actually given up trying to defend his track record on antisemitism. That said, so has he.

    The problem is less who we are voting for than the awfulness of the choice facing us. May at least had redeeming features - determination, intelligence and an ability to construct a vaguely coherent sentence. That's why I felt able to vote for her despite misgivings over some of her policies, especially as Labour had put forward a fantasy that would, if they even tried to implement it, have caused economic and social meltdown.

    But Corbyn and Johnson have none.
    Hmm that is strange... you made a comment about my lack of defence but I have searched your comment and can't find your defence of the racism and xenophobia you voted for?

    Being a little hypocritical are we?

    Also I can understand why the no deal rhetoric would sound like intelligence and economic competence to a certain kind of person, just not an intelligent or economically competent one.
    I have never supported no deal rhetoric. If you have nothing to say, at least don't make things up.

    And I note you still haven't addressed the main point. Don't you find it depressing that at the moment we have simple tribal mudslinging over racism, when it's eating its way into both main parties (and it's not as though the Liberal Democrats, the Greens and SNP are immune, and as for UKIP and the Faragistas...)

    I'm more concerned that instead of its being addressed as a general problem that needs sorting out, it's being used in an attempt to score political points - as you are doing.
    I don't think you are deeply concerned at all, you have been consistent in using it as a political weapon against Corbyn who you oppose for other reasons and now when I call you out on your own voting all of a sudden you are concerned about it being used for political point scoring?!

    Not buying it.

    It was May's rhetoric and you who said she was intelligent, you didn't mention economic competence though (I seemed to imagine that part...)
    Are you saying I should not criticise Corbyn for his awkward issues around racism just because I also think he's a liar, a fool and a bully peddling discredited shibboleths of nineteenth century philosophers?
  • Options
    EndillionEndillion Posts: 4,976

    Endillion said:

    Streeter said:

    Endillion said:

    https://twitter.com/Otto_English/status/1154438815395864578

    https://www.britainfirst.org/best_politically_incorrect_boris_quotes

    I figure it would be easier just to list the far right groups that don't like Boris... Just have to find one first.

    If I was accustomed to giving credence to such arguments, I'd point out that Putin will presumably be unutterably furious at Johnson's elevation, but would be delighted should he be replaced by your friend from Islington.
    On what is your presumption based?
    Salisbury.
    1) Boris Johnson doesn't care about Salisbury. He cares so little that he ducked out of a Cobra briefing on the subject to be photographed resigning.

    2) In the grand scheme of things, Salisbury doesn't matter much to Vladimir Putin anyway. His main strategic aim in Europe is to foment chaos and disorder, so he can divide and rule. Boris Johnson is an ideal choice from that perspective.
    Yes, I take your point. Although I think Johnson's plan (to the extent he has one - maybe "vague aim" would be better) is for close cooperation with the EU on matters that are important to us both - he's certainly not a Cash/Redwood type radical on the subject of Europe.

    Otherwise, Johnson tends to be socially quite liberal and economically right wing. Pretty much the polar opposite of the authoritarian, socially conservative Putin.
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    Peter_the_PunterPeter_the_Punter Posts: 13,320
    Am I seeing things or did the Yellow Peril win both Glouceter by-elections yesterday?

    Is so, when will HYUFD be along to explain how this demonstrates the Boris bounce?
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    TheJezziahTheJezziah Posts: 3,840
    ydoethur said:

    ydoethur said:

    The ex Tory MP for Brecon is a "crook" for minor troughing

    To be exact, for falsifying a document to support an expenses claim.

    Which should bar him from Parliament for terminal stupidity, frankly.
    I am afraid if we bar the terminally stupid from Parliament, the House of Commons will be almost empty.
    And that would be a bad thing?!!
    Intelligent* people can be problematic sometimes as well...

    https://twitter.com/PickardJE/status/1154327521762185216

    Although still preferable to the alternative!

    *To a certain standard
  • Options
    prh47bridgeprh47bridge Posts: 441

    I've got something similar here, not working in Chrome, although Firefox is OK. Been this way for a week or two.

    I can still see the embedded tweets in Firefox, though.

    These are the errors I'm getting - apparently Chrome is applying a content security policy and thinks it's not allowed to load the iframe from vanilla, but I can't see anything in the headers or the source code that sets that, so I guess it's just a setting that Chrome made up.

    https://pastebin.com/zxAf0p1h
    Looking at those headers and doing some digging, the policy is not being made up by Chrome. The response from Vanilla that contains the comments has a header which includes the directive "Content-Security-Policy: frame-ancestors 'self' www2.politicalbetting.com *politicalbetting.com". That tells the browser that it should only embed the comments in a page from the same source as the comments (i.e. politicalbetting.vanillacommunity.com) or from any domain ending politicalbetting.com. The www2.politicalbetting.com bit of the directive is actually redundant because that will also match *politicalbetting.com. So it appears that Chrome thinks the main page is not from politicalbetting.com but from some other domain. Strange.
    Off the top of my head (am on mobile, on holiday) I doubt *politicalbetting.com is valid. It should presumably be *.politicalbetting.com, i.e. with a dot to denote subdomain.
    That's certainly what I would do although the information on Mozilla is unclear. However, having done some further digging and looked at the w3c standard I believe you are correct. So this is another Vanilla issue.
  • Options
    YBarddCwscYBarddCwsc Posts: 7,172
    stodge said:


    As usual, a very pious posting from a LibDem ... who actually are some of the worst offenders on here.

    When I said I had once voted LibDem, and would never again, I particularly remember a poster who suggested (fallaciously) that I had made up this electoral story.

    That poster's name .. err, stodge.

    But, this is a typical LibDem act. The bad boys & girls are the Tories and Labour and the SNP who behave like little children, while the "grown up" LibDem party is above such childishness.

    The ex Tory MP for Brecon is a "crook" for minor troughing, but the LibDems caught troughing (like David Laws who makes Chris Davies look like a small time apprentice) escape all censure.

    Who in the LibDems ever called David Laws a crook? Or censured him at the time?

    Pious, eh, I've been called worse.

    I regularly criticise my own party on its policies and what it has done and, yes, I critique some of the other parties but I lack the tunnel vision of those who think only one party is ever in the wrong and only one party never criticises its own.

    You'd better believe a lot of LDs weren't happy with Laws but in truth many were happy to see him go as he was seen as the extreme end of the Orange Bookers who were ideologically perceived to be too close to Cameron's so-called "liberal conservatism".

    You don't like the LDs and think we're all a bunch of hypocrites, then? Fair enough, I'll put you down as a "maybe".

    If, however, I impugned you by accusing you of making up a story about having once voted Liberal Democrat, I'm happy to apologise and retract my comment. Clearly, you did once vote LD and have decided you can do so no longer. Fair enough.
    And in turn, I happily agree that you are much more independent LibDem than most, and if you were on my ballot paper, the pen might hover over your name.
  • Options
    HYUFDHYUFD Posts: 117,028

    HYUFD might want to note that even if the Tories had been able to get all the Brexit Party votes behind them they'd have still lost to the Lib Dems. It might well be that delivering Brexit might be just as harmful to the Conservatives as it would be to business.
    I note in Gloucester Podsmead the LDs beat the Tories by just 3 votes with the Brexit Party gaining 16% so your conclusion does not hold up there.

    Last time Labour beat the Tories there by 30 votes, this time Labour's vote collapsed by over 30%
  • Options
    OnlyLivingBoyOnlyLivingBoy Posts: 15,122

    New Scientist has a look at what Boris said about science and technology in his opening statement.
    https://www.newscientist.com/article/2211206-awkward-truths-about-boris-johnsons-praise-for-uk-science-and-tech/

    Though NS does not say it, one can't help wondering if Boris's praise for GMO crops is preparing us to roll over for American demands as part of an FTA.

    The answer to that is obviously yes. One of the results of British parochialism is that the US dimension to the Brexit crisis tends to get overlooked. Look at connections between the Leave campaign (which has taken over the government without an election, using Johnson as its front with Cummings as CEO) and the Mercers (reclusive US billionaires who have put huge amounts of money behind data-driven political campaigns and who are so right wing they make the Koch brothers look like Jeremy Corbyn). Look at the role of Bannon. Look at Trump's broader strategy to weaken the EU, which Brexit is a key part of.
    This is a good account of those links:
    https://bylinetimes.com/2019/06/21/the-transatlantic-triumph-of-trumpism-boris-johnson-a-plan-years-in-the-making/
    The irony is that a trade deal with the US probably won't get through Congress if the UK fucks Ireland in a no deal Brexit. But I expect at the UK end we will roll over and accept a terrible deal with the US if it is on offer - we will be too weakened to say no, which of course was the plan all along.
  • Options
    NigelbNigelb Posts: 62,631

    New Scientist has a look at what Boris said about science and technology in his opening statement.
    https://www.newscientist.com/article/2211206-awkward-truths-about-boris-johnsons-praise-for-uk-science-and-tech/

    Mainly bluster.
    The idea that we 'lead the world' in battery technology is utterly risible.
  • Options
    tpfkartpfkar Posts: 1,546

    Am I seeing things or did the Yellow Peril win both Glouceter by-elections yesterday?

    Is so, when will HYUFD be along to explain how this demonstrates the Boris bounce?

    It was also the first time the Brexit party stood, and in one seat scored over 100 votes with the Lib Dem’s winning by 3. So I’m sure that HYUFD will also explain how Boris unites the leave side and splits the remain side! Some call it the Boris effect....
  • Options
    kle4kle4 Posts: 91,798

    Good morning, everyone.

    Mr. P, interesting tweet, if accurate (loss of Grayling, very pro-leave and pro-Boris, indicates it might be). If Boris can't even get the hardliners behind him, he's got half a faction.

    Difficult to oust a PM. Not so hard to undermine one.

    We know he doesn’t have the votes to get the (or his) WA through the HoC. So it looks like he’ll either play Russian roulette with Parliament, or go for a GE if forced.

    There’s talk of these magical 40 Labour MPs who might somehow vote it through. They won’t materialise.
    If they didn't under May they wont under Boris.

    This issue should be on merits and not on how nasty the PM is but we have seen previously they use that as an excuse not to vote to leave while claiming they want to.
  • Options
    AlastairMeeksAlastairMeeks Posts: 30,340
    Endillion said:

    Endillion said:

    Streeter said:

    Endillion said:

    https://twitter.com/Otto_English/status/1154438815395864578

    https://www.britainfirst.org/best_politically_incorrect_boris_quotes

    I figure it would be easier just to list the far right groups that don't like Boris... Just have to find one first.

    If I was accustomed to giving credence to such arguments, I'd point out that Putin will presumably be unutterably furious at Johnson's elevation, but would be delighted should he be replaced by your friend from Islington.
    On what is your presumption based?
    Salisbury.
    1) Boris Johnson doesn't care about Salisbury. He cares so little that he ducked out of a Cobra briefing on the subject to be photographed resigning.

    2) In the grand scheme of things, Salisbury doesn't matter much to Vladimir Putin anyway. His main strategic aim in Europe is to foment chaos and disorder, so he can divide and rule. Boris Johnson is an ideal choice from that perspective.
    Yes, I take your point. Although I think Johnson's plan (to the extent he has one - maybe "vague aim" would be better) is for close cooperation with the EU on matters that are important to us both - he's certainly not a Cash/Redwood type radical on the subject of Europe.

    Otherwise, Johnson tends to be socially quite liberal and economically right wing. Pretty much the polar opposite of the authoritarian, socially conservative Putin.
    Only one thing matters to Boris Johnson and that's Boris Johnson. Everything else will be thrown to the wolves sooner or later.

    Vladimir Putin won't be very interested in Boris Johnson's views anyway. He's just a useful tool.
  • Options
    HYUFDHYUFD Posts: 117,028

    Am I seeing things or did the Yellow Peril win both Glouceter by-elections yesterday?

    Is so, when will HYUFD be along to explain how this demonstrates the Boris bounce?

    Tories lost Podsmead by 30 votes last time to Labour, Tories lost Podsmead by just 3 votes last night to the LDs
  • Options
    ydoethurydoethur Posts: 67,287
    tpfkar said:

    Am I seeing things or did the Yellow Peril win both Glouceter by-elections yesterday?

    Is so, when will HYUFD be along to explain how this demonstrates the Boris bounce?

    It was also the first time the Brexit party stood, and in one seat scored over 100 votes with the Lib Dem’s winning by 3. So I’m sure that HYUFD will also explain how Boris unites the leave side and splits the remain side! Some call it the Boris effect....
    I think it is fair to say Boris blew his first test in the job.

    I'll get my coat...

    Have a good morning.
  • Options
    FoxyFoxy Posts: 44,689
    tpfkar said:

    Am I seeing things or did the Yellow Peril win both Glouceter by-elections yesterday?

    Is so, when will HYUFD be along to explain how this demonstrates the Boris bounce?

    It was also the first time the Brexit party stood, and in one seat scored over 100 votes with the Lib Dem’s winning by 3. So I’m sure that HYUFD will also explain how Boris unites the leave side and splits the remain side! Some call it the Boris effect....
    Though the BXP got a lower share than UKIP did previously. Like the Euros it was just pretending not a surge.
  • Options
    TheJezziahTheJezziah Posts: 3,840
    ydoethur said:

    ydoethur said:

    ydoethur said:

    ydoethur said:

    It would be amusing to see Casino Royale defending racism among Boris' acolytes and The Jezziah attacking it - in an exact about turn of the discussions over THAT mural - if it wasn't just deeply depressing that this is what we have come to.

    Hmm that is strange... you made a comment about my lack of defence but I have searched your comment and can't find your defence of the racism and xenophobia you voted for?

    Being a little hypocritical are we?

    Also I can understand why the no deal rhetoric would sound like intelligence and economic competence to a certain kind of person, just not an intelligent or economically competent one.
    I have never supported no deal rhetoric. If you have nothing to say, at least don't make things up.

    And I note you still haven't addressed the main point. Don't you find it depressing that at the moment we have simple tribal mudslinging over racism, when it's eating its way into both main parties (and it's not as though the Liberal Democrats, the Greens and SNP are immune, and as for UKIP and the Faragistas...)

    I'm more concerned that instead of its being addressed as a general problem that needs sorting out, it's being used in an attempt to score political points - as you are doing.
    I don't think you are deeply concerned at all, you have been consistent in using it as a political weapon against Corbyn who you oppose for other reasons and now when I call you out on your own voting all of a sudden you are concerned about it being used for political point scoring?!

    Not buying it.

    It was May's rhetoric and you who said she was intelligent, you didn't mention economic competence though (I seemed to imagine that part...)
    Are you saying I should not criticise Corbyn for his awkward issues around racism just because I also think he's a liar, a fool and a bully peddling discredited shibboleths of nineteenth century philosophers?
    I wouldn't have engaged in multiple conversations with you If I claimed you couldn't make accusations against Corbyn, it is telling that when the tables get turned you suddenly cry about the tribal mudslinging of racism....

    You can't vote for go home vans, windrush and all the other crap May was involved in, accuse you opponents of supporting racism and then get upset when they point the finger back at you.

  • Options
    TOPPINGTOPPING Posts: 41,314

    TOPPING said:

    The Spectator started going downhill when Boris took over. It used to be witty and acute. Boris made it more lifestyle, tribal and boring.

    You mean he tried to make it accessible to a wider audience.....
    Yep. Like Love Island.
    NO Love Island is the reverse. I think trying to make even the C2 D's and E's lose interest. The mere mention of it gets people sighing with disgust.
    I thought the viewing figures said otherwise.
  • Options
    HYUFDHYUFD Posts: 117,028
    edited July 2019
    tpfkar said:

    Am I seeing things or did the Yellow Peril win both Glouceter by-elections yesterday?

    Is so, when will HYUFD be along to explain how this demonstrates the Boris bounce?

    It was also the first time the Brexit party stood, and in one seat scored over 100 votes with the Lib Dem’s winning by 3. So I’m sure that HYUFD will also explain how Boris unites the leave side and splits the remain side! Some call it the Boris effect....
    Brexit Party well below the 20% or so last night they were polling pre Boris.

    Boris will pick up Labour Leave seats even if he loses a few to the LDs it will still be a net gain as there are more marginal Labour Leave seats than marginal Tory Remain seats.

    LDs won council by elections even before the 2017 general election when they got 7%
  • Options
    FoxyFoxy Posts: 44,689
    Nigelb said:

    New Scientist has a look at what Boris said about science and technology in his opening statement.
    https://www.newscientist.com/article/2211206-awkward-truths-about-boris-johnsons-praise-for-uk-science-and-tech/

    Mainly bluster.
    The idea that we 'lead the world' in battery technology is utterly risible.
    Boris has the typical classics educated public schoolboy knowledge and understanding of science and technology. His skills are in rhetoric and bombast, not sifting through facts.
  • Options
    Peter_the_PunterPeter_the_Punter Posts: 13,320
    HYUFD said:

    I've got something similar here, not working in Chrome, although Firefox is OK. Been this way for a week or two.

    I can still see the embedded tweets in Firefox, though.

    These are the errors I'm getting - apparently Chrome is applying a content security policy and thinks it's not allowed to load the iframe from vanilla, but I can't see anything in the headers or the source code that sets that, so I guess it's just a setting that Chrome made up.

    https://pastebin.com/zxAf0p1h
    Looking at those headers and doing some digging, the policy is not being made up by Chrome. The response from Vanilla that contains the comments has a header which includes the directive "Content-Security-Policy: frame-ancestors 'self' www2.politicalbetting.com *politicalbetting.com". That tells the browser that it should only embed the comments in a page from the same source as the comments (i.e. politicalbetting.vanillacommunity.com) or from any domain ending politicalbetting.com. The www2.politicalbetting.com bit of the directive is actually redundant because that will also match *politicalbetting.com. So it appears that Chrome thinks the main page is not from politicalbetting.com but from some other domain. Strange.
    Off the top of my head (am on mobile, on holiday) I doubt *politicalbetting.com is valid. It should presumably be *.politicalbetting.com, i.e. with a dot to denote subdomain.

    Very interesting Gloucestershire comments. I’m keeping a particular eye on Cotswold as it borders my area (West Oxfordshire) and is similar politically - indeed the two are outsourcing partners. It’s possible, even likely, WODC will fall to NOC next time.
    South Oxfordshire and Vale of White Horse already are LD.

    Remain voting West Oxfordshire could go too but Leave voting Cherwell (the only Leave area in Oxfordshire) is still pretty solid Tory
    Cotswolds was one of the few non-metropolitan areas in the country to vote Remain.
  • Options
    not_on_firenot_on_fire Posts: 4,341
    HYUFD said:

    JackW said:

    Good morning, everyone.

    Mr. P, interesting tweet, if accurate (loss of Grayling, very pro-leave and pro-Boris, indicates it might be). If Boris can't even get the hardliners behind him, he's got half a faction.

    Difficult to oust a PM. Not so hard to undermine one.

    We know he doesn’t have the votes to get the (or his) WA through the HoC. So it looks like he’ll either play Russian roulette with Parliament, or go for a GE if forced.

    There’s talk of these magical 40 Labour MPs who might somehow vote it through. They won’t materialise.

    Any Labour MPs voting with Johnson would almost certainly be voting to end their political careers. A few are standing down at the next GE, though, so he could get those. Hoey is a given.

    Is everyone left in the PLP so browbeaten, resigned or unambitious that they can't muster another challenge to Corbyn?

    Johnson has banked on an immediate bounce and the Tory side like Grieve are so tribal they too feel they have to stay with the Party and hold their noses. I suspect many, many Tory voters opposed to Johnson will do the same.

    At present Johnson looks invincible, all the stars have aligned for a small window at least.
    The small window may already be shut.

    Let us assume that both of the ideal scenarios for Boris come to pass - Firstly he delivers BREXIT and Farage and co drift toward single figures or secondly having failed to deliver BREXIT in October he goes for a general election on a No Deal prospectus.

    The small window might be firmly locked by the reality of economic difficulties as aspects of "Project Fear" begin to take shape and the optics become sub-optimal. Relying on the competence of this administration to steer a steady course might be considered a tad optimistic although in fairness the curse of Grayling has been lifted - a sliver of hope emerges ..... :smile:

    What is remarkable about Johnson’s Cabinet is that Grayling is not in it, but it is still of lower calibre than May’s dire efforts. Williamson at Education is perhaps the worst Cabinet appointment of all time, although Raab at FCO and Patel at the Home Office run it close.

    Panel's tough on crime message will go down well with working class voters
    That doesn’t make it a good appointment.
  • Options
    GardenwalkerGardenwalker Posts: 20,857

    The Spectator started going downhill when Boris took over. It used to be witty and acute. Boris made it more lifestyle, tribal and boring.

    You mean he tried to make it accessible to a wider audience.....
    Potentially. Certainly readership went up, but it has been going up consistently since the 90s and this has continued under Fraser.
  • Options
    TheJezziahTheJezziah Posts: 3,840

    Endillion said:

    Streeter said:

    Endillion said:

    https://twitter.com/Otto_English/status/1154438815395864578

    https://www.britainfirst.org/best_politically_incorrect_boris_quotes

    I figure it would be easier just to list the far right groups that don't like Boris... Just have to find one first.

    If I was accustomed to giving credence to such arguments, I'd point out that Putin will presumably be unutterably furious at Johnson's elevation, but would be delighted should he be replaced by your friend from Islington.
    On what is your presumption based?
    Salisbury.
    1) Boris Johnson doesn't care about Salisbury. He cares so little that he ducked out of a Cobra briefing on the subject to be photographed resigning.

    2) In the grand scheme of things, Salisbury doesn't matter much to Vladimir Putin anyway. His main strategic aim in Europe is to foment chaos and disorder, so he can divide and rule. Boris Johnson is an ideal choice from that perspective.
    It is almost a struggle to come up with two better picks than Boris and Trump, Farage maybe, but from a Putin perspective those 2 and their policies are almost perfect.

    It isn't for nothing that Putin seems to go for populist right wing Eurosceptic parties, the pattern repeats over a few countries.

    Jeremy Corbyn would be a top pick for Vladimir Putin too. The destruction of NATO is a strategic objective and he'd effectively achieve it then without a shot being fired.
    TBH Corbyn will probably have little effect, even if he won a big majority I couldn't see him leaving NATO, I'm not sure it is a huge priority of his.

    Whereas no deal clearly is on the Boris agenda.

    Given the choice in an upcoming election Putin would almost undoubtedly favour Boris and his no deal platform winning.
  • Options
    tlg86tlg86 Posts: 25,190
    I see Carole Codswallop was spreading fake news again last night:

    https://order-order.com/2019/07/26/caroles-cadwalladrs-latest-miscarriage-justice/
  • Options
    Peter_the_PunterPeter_the_Punter Posts: 13,320
    HYUFD said:

    tpfkar said:

    Am I seeing things or did the Yellow Peril win both Glouceter by-elections yesterday?

    Is so, when will HYUFD be along to explain how this demonstrates the Boris bounce?

    It was also the first time the Brexit party stood, and in one seat scored over 100 votes with the Lib Dem’s winning by 3. So I’m sure that HYUFD will also explain how Boris unites the leave side and splits the remain side! Some call it the Boris effect....
    Brexit Party well below the 20% or so last night they were polling pre Boris.

    Boris will pick up Labour Leave seats even if he loses a few to the LDs it will still be a net gain as there are more marginal Labour Leave seats than marginal Tory Remain seats.

    LDs won council by elections even before the 2017 general election when they got 7%
    Thank you, HYUFD. We were all getting a little worried for a moment.
  • Options
    stodgestodge Posts: 12,864



    And in turn, I happily agree that you are much more independent LibDem than most, and if you were on my ballot paper, the pen might hover over your name.

    I'll take that, my friend. Have a good day and I'll rely on you to hold me to the mark.

  • Options
    RogerRoger Posts: 18,891

    I've got something similar here, not working in Chrome, although Firefox is OK. Been this way for a week or two.

    I can still see the embedded tweets in Firefox, though.

    These are the errors I'm getting - apparently Chrome is applying a content security policy and thinks it's not allowed to load the iframe from vanilla, but I can't see anything in the headers or the source code that sets that, so I guess it's just a setting that Chrome made up.

    https://pastebin.com/zxAf0p1h
    Looking at those headers and doing some digging, the policy is not being made up by Chrome. The response from Vanilla that contains the comments has a header which includes the directive "Content-Security-Policy: frame-ancestors 'self' www2.politicalbetting.com *politicalbetting.com". That tells the browser that it should only embed the comments in a page from the same source as the comments (i.e. politicalbetting.vanillacommunity.com) or from any domain ending politicalbetting.com. The www2.politicalbetting.com bit of the directive is actually redundant because that will also match *politicalbetting.com. So it appears that Chrome thinks the main page is not from politicalbetting.com but from some other domain. Strange.
    I can't understand much of your conversation with Edmund but I can't access any of the comments on Firefox though everything else seems normal. I'm having to access them on Chrome which is more difficult. Can either of you lend a solution?
  • Options
    RochdalePioneersRochdalePioneers Posts: 27,252
    I am expecting a fabulous summer of positioning and posturing. The Tories will be in Panto season - we're going to do no deal! Oh no you're not! Oh yes we are! Plenty of choices pf panto villain with all the people sacked now sitting on the back benches.

    Labour will continue life in The Matrix - in the mistaken belief that Corbyn is Prime Minister in waiting and that they can truly understand the world around them. Not seeing that in reality they are a withered husk plugged into a machine that the Jeremy cannpt comprehend.

    The LibDems will be wanting to build on their stupendous 3 vote win landslide in Gloucester yesterday - poaching sane MPs from the Panto and The Matrix being their focus.
  • Options
    kle4kle4 Posts: 91,798
    tlg86 said:

    I see Carole Codswallop was spreading fake news again last night:

    https://order-order.com/2019/07/26/caroles-cadwalladrs-latest-miscarriage-justice/

    I don't know about the general quality of her work but she does seem to let her desire for things to be true run away from her sometimes.
  • Options
    HYUFDHYUFD Posts: 117,028
    edited July 2019
    ydoethur said:

    tpfkar said:

    Am I seeing things or did the Yellow Peril win both Glouceter by-elections yesterday?

    Is so, when will HYUFD be along to explain how this demonstrates the Boris bounce?

    It was also the first time the Brexit party stood, and in one seat scored over 100 votes with the Lib Dem’s winning by 3. So I’m sure that HYUFD will also explain how Boris unites the leave side and splits the remain side! Some call it the Boris effect....
    I think it is fair to say Boris blew his first test in the job.

    I'll get my coat...

    Have a good morning.
    Even Tony Blair lost council by elections before his 2001 general election re election landslide and the Tories did better last night than Labour.

    I expect the next poll to show bounces for both the Boris led Tory Party and Swinson's LDs with Corbyn Labour third, maybe even 4th behind the Brexit Party in a poll in the next few weeks
  • Options
    EndillionEndillion Posts: 4,976

    Endillion said:

    Endillion said:

    Streeter said:

    Endillion said:

    https://twitter.com/Otto_English/status/1154438815395864578

    https://www.britainfirst.org/best_politically_incorrect_boris_quotes

    I figure it would be easier just to list the far right groups that don't like Boris... Just have to find one first.

    If I was accustomed to giving credence to such arguments, I'd point out that Putin will presumably be unutterably furious at Johnson's elevation, but would be delighted should he be replaced by your friend from Islington.
    On what is your presumption based?
    Salisbury.
    1) Boris Johnson doesn't care about Salisbury. He cares so little that he ducked out of a Cobra briefing on the subject to be photographed resigning.

    2) In the grand scheme of things, Salisbury doesn't matter much to Vladimir Putin anyway. His main strategic aim in Europe is to foment chaos and disorder, so he can divide and rule. Boris Johnson is an ideal choice from that perspective.
    Yes, I take your point. Although I think Johnson's plan (to the extent he has one - maybe "vague aim" would be better) is for close cooperation with the EU on matters that are important to us both - he's certainly not a Cash/Redwood type radical on the subject of Europe.

    Otherwise, Johnson tends to be socially quite liberal and economically right wing. Pretty much the polar opposite of the authoritarian, socially conservative Putin.
    Only one thing matters to Boris Johnson and that's Boris Johnson. Everything else will be thrown to the wolves sooner or later.

    Vladimir Putin won't be very interested in Boris Johnson's views anyway. He's just a useful tool.
    I'll put you down as "cautiously optimistic" about Johnson's premiership.

    My original point (which you've now made also) was that Corbyn as PM would be a fantastic result for Putin. Maybe I shouldn't post at 5am - it seems I get carried away a bit.
  • Options
    HYUFDHYUFD Posts: 117,028

    HYUFD said:

    I've got something similar here, not working in Chrome, although Firefox is OK. Been this way for a week or two.

    I can still see the embedded tweets in Firefox, though.

    These are the errors I'm getting - apparently Chrome is applying a content security policy and thinks it's not allowed to load the iframe from vanilla, but I can't see anything in the headers or the source code that sets that, so I guess it's just a setting that Chrome made up.

    https://pastebin.com/zxAf0p1h
    Looking at those headers and doing some digging, the policy is not being made up by Chrome. The response from Vanilla that contains the comments has a header which includes the directive "Content-Security-Policy: frame-ancestors 'self' www2.politicalbetting.com *politicalbetting.com". That tells the browser that it should only embed the comments in a page from the same source as the comments (i.e. politicalbetting.vanillacommunity.com) or from any domain ending politicalbetting.com. The www2.politicalbetting.com bit of the directive is actually redundant because that will also match *politicalbetting.com. So it appears that Chrome thinks the main page is not from politicalbetting.com but from some other domain. Strange.
    Off the top of my head (am on mobile, on holiday) I doubt *politicalbetting.com is valid. It should presumably be *.politicalbetting.com, i.e. with a dot to denote subdomain.

    Very interesting Gloucestershire comments. I’m keeping a particular eye on Cotswold as it borders my area (West Oxfordshire) and is similar politically - indeed the two are outsourcing partners. It’s possible, even likely, WODC will fall to NOC next time.
    South Oxfordshire and Vale of White Horse already are LD.

    Remain voting West Oxfordshire could go too but Leave voting Cherwell (the only Leave area in Oxfordshire) is still pretty solid Tory
    Cotswolds was one of the few non-metropolitan areas in the country to vote Remain.
    Cotswold is full of second homes for wealthy Londoners
  • Options
    MysticroseMysticrose Posts: 4,688

    Good morning, everyone.

    Mr. P, interesting tweet, if accurate (loss of Grayling, very pro-leave and pro-Boris, indicates it might be). If Boris can't even get the hardliners behind him, he's got half a faction.

    Difficult to oust a PM. Not so hard to undermine one.

    We know he doesn’t have the votes to get the (or his) WA through the HoC. So it looks like he’ll either play Russian roulette with Parliament, or go for a GE if forced.

    There’s talk of these magical 40 Labour MPs who might somehow vote it through. They won’t materialise.

    Any Labour MPs voting with Johnson would almost certainly be voting to end their political careers. A few are standing down at the next GE, though, so he could get those. Hoey is a given.

    Is everyone left in the PLP so browbeaten, resigned or unambitious that they can't muster another challenge to Corbyn?

    Johnson has banked on an immediate bounce and that any significant electoral surge for the LDs will damage Labour MP numbers. Under FPTP this will enhance seat numbers for the Tories. The LDs excitement at knocking Labour into third in terms of vote share still leaves us with Johnson.

    Johnson can only be pegged back from his 35% voteshare landslide in two ways. A stronger-Corbyn-free Labour leading the charge or mass defections to the LDs by Corbyn-fearng Labour MPs. They need to get off their sorry rumps and do one or tge other.

    It speaks volumes too that good people on the Tory side like Grieve are so tribal they too feel they have to stay with the Party and hold their noses. I suspect many, many Tory voters opposed to Johnson will do the same.

    At present Johnson looks invincible, all the stars have aligned for a small window at least.
    If we were basking upon the sunlit uplands of post-Brexit Britain and if that pesky Farage and his party were forever banished to the isle of Elba then your post might be valid.

    We are not and it isn’t.
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    FoxyFoxy Posts: 44,689
    edited July 2019
    @SouthamObserver

    While I share your low opinion of most of the cabinet, particularly Williamson and Patel, Raab at the FCO is a different kettle of fish. He has years of experience working at the FCO in the New Labour era, indeed a CV which suits a SJW, including human rights activism, working for the ICC, Liberty and even Palestinian government. From Wikipedia:


    "After leaving Cambridge, Raab worked at Linklaters in London, completing his two-year training contract at the firm and then leaving shortly after qualifying as a solicitor in 2000. Whilst at Linklaters he worked on project finance, international litigation and competition law. This included time on secondments at Liberty (the human rights NGO) and in Brussels advising on EU and WTO law.[15][third-party source needed] He spent the summer of 1998 at Birzeit University near Ramallah, Palestine's de facto capital on the West Bank, where he worked for one of the principal Palestinian negotiators of the Oslo peace accords, assessing World Bank projects on the West Bank.

    Raab joined the Foreign Office in 2000, covering a range of briefs including leading a team at the British Embassy in The Hague, dedicated to bringing war criminals to justice. After returning to London, he advised on the Arab–Israeli conflict, the European Union, and Gibraltar. "
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    JosiasJessopJosiasJessop Posts: 39,036

    F1: current forecast is 67% of thundery showers during qualifying and 50% or so for every hour of the race.

    Edited extra bit: still think the 10 each way (fifth the odds top three) on Verstappen in qualifying is worth considering.

    BTW Mr Dancer, I know you don't like W series, but a few days ago they had a non-championship race with a reverse grid that was rather exciting.

    It's well worth a watch if you have a spare half-hour:
    https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=hpgD50_J3ig

    I know reverse grids are fabricated for excitement, but in a series like F3, where cars are much more similar than in F1, it really gives a good indication of who the good drivers are.
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    MysticroseMysticrose Posts: 4,688
    tlg86 said:

    I see Carole Codswallop was spreading fake news again last night:

    https://order-order.com/2019/07/26/caroles-cadwalladrs-latest-miscarriage-justice/


    You're turning to Paul Staines for reputable journalism?
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    rottenboroughrottenborough Posts: 58,259
    "Brexiteers hold every leading position in Government and have no one left to blame: if they can’t do it now, then it probably can’t be done."

    https://www.telegraph.co.uk/politics/2019/07/25/isnt-government-campaign-team-determined-scare-parliament-compliance/
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    AlastairMeeksAlastairMeeks Posts: 30,340

    Endillion said:

    Streeter said:

    Endillion said:

    https://twitter.com/Otto_English/status/1154438815395864578

    https://www.britainfirst.org/best_politically_incorrect_boris_quotes

    I figure it would be easier just to list the far right groups that don't like Boris... Just have to find one first.

    If I was accustomed to giving credence to such arguments, I'd point out that Putin will presumably be unutterably furious at Johnson's elevation, but would be delighted should he be replaced by your friend from Islington.
    On what is your presumption based?
    Salisbury.
    1) Boris Johnson doesn't care about Salisbury. He cares so little that he ducked out of a Cobra briefing on the subject to be photographed resigning.

    2) In the grand scheme of things, Salisbury doesn't matter much to Vladimir Putin anyway. His main strategic aim in Europe is to foment chaos and disorder, so he can divide and rule. Boris Johnson is an ideal choice from that perspective.
    It is almost a struggle to come up with two better picks than Boris and Trump, Farage maybe, but from a Putin perspective those 2 and their policies are almost perfect.

    It isn't for nothing that Putin seems to go for populist right wing Eurosceptic parties, the pattern repeats over a few countries.

    Jeremy Corbyn would be a top pick for Vladimir Putin too. The destruction of NATO is a strategic objective and he'd effectively achieve it then without a shot being fired.
    TBH Corbyn will probably have little effect, even if he won a big majority I couldn't see him leaving NATO, I'm not sure it is a huge priority of his.

    Whereas no deal clearly is on the Boris agenda.

    Given the choice in an upcoming election Putin would almost undoubtedly favour Boris and his no deal platform winning.
    If, say, Estonia is invaded by Russia at a time when Britain's Prime Minister is Jeremy Corbyn, do you think Britain would send troops to honour its NATO Article 5 obligations?
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    FrancisUrquhartFrancisUrquhart Posts: 76,285
    edited July 2019

    tlg86 said:

    I see Carole Codswallop was spreading fake news again last night:

    https://order-order.com/2019/07/26/caroles-cadwalladrs-latest-miscarriage-justice/


    You're turning to Paul Staines for reputable journalism?
    Well codswallop has had to apologize yet again, so in this case it appears he is correct. At this rate, she will surpass the dodgy doctor Eoin in terms of apologies / corrections per month.
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    MysticroseMysticrose Posts: 4,688

    tlg86 said:

    I see Carole Codswallop was spreading fake news again last night:

    https://order-order.com/2019/07/26/caroles-cadwalladrs-latest-miscarriage-justice/


    You're turning to Paul Staines for reputable journalism?
    Well codswallop has had to apologize yet again, so in this case it appears he is correct.
    I don't know. Staines has been completely wrong about her so many times I no longer read him. And I don't take any note of what he says. He's descended into a nasty rabid right-wing thug who pedals half-baked stories.
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    HYUFDHYUFD Posts: 117,028
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    Morris_DancerMorris_Dancer Posts: 60,987
    Mr. Jessop, I watched most of a race (think I stumbled across it when I had time to kill).

    It was interesting but very little overtaking (hard to say if that was due to the circuit) and, of course, much slower than F1. I still think it's going to do more harm than good, though.
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    FrancisUrquhartFrancisUrquhart Posts: 76,285

    tlg86 said:

    I see Carole Codswallop was spreading fake news again last night:

    https://order-order.com/2019/07/26/caroles-cadwalladrs-latest-miscarriage-justice/


    You're turning to Paul Staines for reputable journalism?
    Well codswallop has had to apologize yet again, so in this case it appears he is correct.
    I don't know. Staines has been completely wrong about her so many times I no longer read him. And I don't take any note of what he says. He's descended into a nasty rabid right-wing thug who pedals half-baked stories.
    https://twitter.com/carolecadwalla/status/1154468744715837445?s=19
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    PulpstarPulpstar Posts: 75,929
    edited July 2019

    Endillion said:

    Streeter said:

    Endillion said:

    https://twitter.com/Otto_English/status/1154438815395864578

    https://www.britainfirst.org/best_politically_incorrect_boris_quotes

    I figure it would be easier just to list the far right groups that don't like Boris... Just have to find one first.

    If I was accustomed to giving credence to such arguments, I'd point out that Putin will presumably be unutterably furious at Johnson's elevation, but would be delighted should he be replaced by your friend from Islington.
    On what is your presumption based?
    Salisbury.
    1) Boris Johnson doesn't care about Salisbury. He cares so little that he ducked out of a Cobra briefing on the subject to be photographed resigning.

    2) In the grand scheme of things, Salisbury doesn't matter much to Vladimir Putin anyway. His main strategic aim in Europe is to foment chaos and disorder, so he can divide and rule. Boris Johnson is an ideal choice from that perspective.
    It is almost a struggle to come up with two better picks than Boris and Trump, Farage maybe, but from a Putin perspective those 2 and their policies are almost perfect.

    It isn't for nothing that Putin seems to go for populist right wing Eurosceptic parties, the pattern repeats over a few countries.

    Jeremy Corbyn would be a top pick for Vladimir Putin too. The destruction of NATO is a strategic objective and he'd effectively achieve it then without a shot being fired.
    TBH Corbyn will probably have little effect, even if he won a big majority I couldn't see him leaving NATO, I'm not sure it is a huge priority of his.

    Whereas no deal clearly is on the Boris agenda.

    Given the choice in an upcoming election Putin would almost undoubtedly favour Boris and his no deal platform winning.
    If, say, Estonia is invaded by Russia at a time when Britain's Prime Minister is Jeremy Corbyn, do you think Britain would send troops
    It's possible Corbyn could send troops but I think Putin will be able to manage on his own.
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    Peter_the_PunterPeter_the_Punter Posts: 13,320
    HYUFD said:

    HYUFD said:

    I've got something similar here, not working in Chrome, although Firefox is OK. Been this way for a week or two.

    I can still see the embedded tweets in Firefox, though.

    These are the errors I'm getting - apparently Chrome is applying a content security policy and thinks it's not allowed to load the iframe from vanilla, but I can't see anything in the headers or the source code that sets that, so I guess it's just a setting that Chrome made up.

    https://pastebin.com/zxAf0p1h
    Looking at those headers and doing some digging, the policy is not being made up by Chrome. The response from Vanilla that contains the comments has a header which includes the directive "Content-Security-Policy: frame-ancestors 'self' www2.politicalbetting.com *politicalbetting.com". That tells the browser that it should only embed the comments in a page from the same source as the comments (i.e. politicalbetting.vanillacommunity.com) or from any domain ending politicalbetting.com. The www2.politicalbetting.com bit of the directive is actually redundant because that will also match *politicalbetting.com. So it appears that Chrome thinks the main page is not from politicalbetting.com but from some other domain. Strange.
    Off the top of my head (am on mobile, on holiday) I doubt *politicalbetting.com is valid. It should presumably be *.politicalbetting.com, i.e. with a dot to denote subdomain.

    Very interesting Gloucestershire comments. I’m keeping a particular eye on Cotswold as it borders my area (West Oxfordshire) and is similar politically - indeed the two are outsourcing partners. It’s possible, even likely, WODC will fall to NOC next time.
    South Oxfordshire and Vale of White Horse already are LD.

    Remain voting West Oxfordshire could go too but Leave voting Cherwell (the only Leave area in Oxfordshire) is still pretty solid Tory
    Cotswolds was one of the few non-metropolitan areas in the country to vote Remain.
    Cotswold is full of second homes for wealthy Londoners
    The scum!

    Seriously, it's mostly Cirencester, isn't it? Nearby Stroud is also similarly remainy.

    Must be something in the water.
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    kle4kle4 Posts: 91,798
    edited July 2019

    tlg86 said:

    I see Carole Codswallop was spreading fake news again last night:

    https://order-order.com/2019/07/26/caroles-cadwalladrs-latest-miscarriage-justice/


    You're turning to Paul Staines for reputable journalism?
    Well codswallop has had to apologize yet again, so in this case it appears he is correct.
    I don't know. Staines has been completely wrong about her so many times I no longer read him. And I don't take any note of what he says. He's descended into a nasty rabid right-wing thug who pedals half-baked stories.
    But she apologised. Whatever one thinks of Staines, who obviously is no objective source, her apology shows she was wrong. Ignoring her own apology because of Staines seems a peculiar thing to do. You aren't ignoring what he says, you're ignoring what she said.

    Even people we dislike or who are awful can occasionally be right.
This discussion has been closed.