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politicalbetting.com » Blog Archive » LAB take 8pc lead in the November ICM phone poll for the Gu

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  • SchardsSchards Posts: 210
    R0berts said:

    Schards said:

    R0berts said:

    The massive story that is FalkirkGate is really cutting through for the Tories.

    More seriously, can any of the (many) Tories here see a roadmap to victory for their Party?

    Yes

    "Don't let Labour mess it up again"

    Simple really

    And effective at election time, less so mid term. I think I can live with that.
    Who is that going to appeal to? UKIPers possibly, but 2010 Libs and Labs?
    Sensible voters

    There are millions, who are not wedded to a particular party, are not blinkered one way or the other and pay little interest to politics outside of election time.

    The tories have an embarrasement of riches in Labour's record in government to throw into their campaign. They don't have to show they're are faultless, they just have to show they are a better bet than the alternative. That won't be difficult.
  • R0bertsR0berts Posts: 391

    R0berts said:

    Scott_P said:

    R0berts said:


    So you won't even take a charity bet on a Tory majority?

    Nailed off = 50/50 chance...

    Learn something new every day
    I was offering a CHARITY bet you big massive tweetspamming goon!
    so if you're offering a charity bet why's it wrong for another poster to seek more money for charity ?

    or are you just tight fisted ?
    Hehe fair enough. Just evens on a charity bet is the done thing, isn't it, surely? Always the way I've done it anyway.

    I realise now though that Scott was trying to make a "point" rather than wanting a piddly charity bet, but that's fine.
  • AlanbrookeAlanbrooke Posts: 25,516
    tim said:

    Morons, utter morons

    @NickCohen4: A moronic policy that puts all other moronic policies in the shade - @FraserNelson on help to Buy http://t.co/aMelJxfOs2

    Oh please tim, let's not exaggerate labour still hold the record for morons in government
  • BenMBenM Posts: 1,795
    Schards said:



    The tories have an embarrasement of riches in Labour's record in government to throw into their campaign. They don't have to show they're are faultless, they just have to show they are a better bet than the alternative. That won't be difficult.

    The Tories would have no record of their own to go on you mean?

    Dangerous. Very dangerous.

  • AlanbrookeAlanbrooke Posts: 25,516
    tim said:

    Morons, utter morons

    @NickCohen4: A moronic policy that puts all other moronic policies in the shade - @FraserNelson on help to Buy http://t.co/aMelJxfOs2

    Vote Osbrne and Cameron to screw your kids future

    No need to, Blair and Brown got there first.
  • SchardsSchards Posts: 210
    tim said:

    Morons, utter morons

    @NickCohen4: A moronic policy that puts all other moronic policies in the shade - @FraserNelson on help to Buy http://t.co/aMelJxfOs2

    Vote Osbrne and Cameron to screw your kids future

    I think we've long ago established you don't understand this policy or the economics of the housing market. Why keep coming back to it?

    I'm sure there's another 1,000 odd post to be had rejoicing in the gamechanging mid term poll
  • I get the feeling that people have become so obsessed with UKIP and the Tories that they've lost sight of the SNP on Labour.

    Even if the Scots vote to stay in the Union, who will they trust to look after their interests...Salmond or Miliband?

    Morse sure than ever that Labour won't secure a win.
  • Good evening, everyone.

    Good poll for Labour.

    F1: sounds like Perez will get the heave-ho at McLaren, with his seat going to Magnussen:
    http://www.bbc.co.uk/sport/0/formula1/24903504
  • SchardsSchards Posts: 210
    BenM said:

    Schards said:



    The tories have an embarrasement of riches in Labour's record in government to throw into their campaign. They don't have to show they're are faultless, they just have to show they are a better bet than the alternative. That won't be difficult.

    The Tories would have no record of their own to go on you mean?

    Dangerous. Very dangerous.

    Nope, but reminding the electorate of Labour's record is easier and more effective. Then it's just a case of demonstrating the coalition's superior record on the economy, jobs, reducing the deficit, unemployment, immigration, equality, etc, etc.

    It's been tough, it's been hurting, but it is working, we've come this far, don't let Labour mess it all up again.

    From about 1 month out
  • OllyTOllyT Posts: 5,006
    SeanT said:

    tim said:

    The gender gap is stunning, and the leader ratings continue to improve for Miliband - it's firming up the 2010 LDs and has been since Syria.

    Oh, and it's a good time to remember the PB Tory motto

    The PB Tories are always wrong
    The PB Tories never learn

    It's nothing to do with Syria, who remembers that? There wasn't even military action, in the end.

    It's everything to do with Miliband's stunt on energy (and his attack on the Mail). This simultaneously made him seem appealing and in touch to impoverished floaters, and shored up his core - hence his soaring ratings with Labour voters ever since.

    I remember a lefty friend of mine saying, when Miliband did it, "I like this energy price thing" - it was a sincerely positive remark from someone normally very cynical. That's when I started to wonder.

    As I said on the prior thread, it's a gimmick, but a brilliant gimmick - it must have been focus grouped beforehand. Miliband totally outflanked the Tories; hats off.

    The Tories are now in big trouble. Cam and Oz need to make this recovery feel better to the average voter, and they need to do it soon.

    I think you are underestimating Syria, Cameron/Clegg rushing blindly in, Milliband putting the brakes on has played very well with the sort of voter that backed the Lib Dems because of Iraq. I have encountered it plenty of times on the doorstep in recent weeks.

    Long way to go but it is beginning to look a bit sickly for Cameron - however much the Tories squeeze UKIP I'd be very surprised if they don't poll considerably better than the 3% of 2010 - could be a good 10% more and mainly at the Tories expense. Looks like the anti-Coalition Lib Dems are sticking firmly with Labour.

    For those who think it's going to be as simple as the Tories saying "Don't let Labour ruin it" I imagine the 40% inclining to Labour will be saying "Ruin what exactly?" We don't all live in leafy Surrey
  • FloaterFloater Posts: 14,207
    tim said:

    Cameron lost a much bigger lead over the last 18 months of the last Parliament, so anything can happen. But that Labour vote has now been on or above 35% every month for over three years. And Ed's leadership credentials are now firming up among Labour supporters. The Tories need something to happen or the economic recovery to start feeding through. Even then, they may just find that the anti-Tory vote will be big enough to win Labour most seats. It's all very interesting, that's for sure.

    That more style than substance finding is horrible for Cameron. What's the gender breakdown on that?


    Hes a fake, and women have sussed him
    Women just love a bloke like Ed.

    You know, only marries because he is told it would look better politically.

    And just somehow never had the time to put his name down as father on birth certificate.

  • BenM said:

    Great poll.
    so soon after he scored a massive policy hit as the Great Energy Price Freeze.

    A great poll where Labour is flat when the Tories are down 4? And after the Great Energy Price Freeze?

    Why do you think Labour are flat?

  • The Beast of Bolsover is up to his old tricks:

    Dennis Skinner: "Half the Tories opposite are crooks."
    Speaker: "Please retract"
    "Ok, half the Tories opposite aren’t crooks."
  • AndyJSAndyJS Posts: 29,395
    Anthony Wells on UKPR points out that the massive gender gap in the ICM poll doesn't really mean anything because the sample sizes aren't big enough:

    http://ukpollingreport.co.uk/blog/archives/8375
  • fitalassfitalass Posts: 4,320
    Its the economy that is going to win the next GE for the Conservative party.

    Benedict Brogan in the Telegraph - As the economy recovers, so do the Tories’ prospects of
    victory

    "Mr Cameron’s operation has appeared more confident. The discipline imposed by Lynton Crosby, his elections director, has made itself felt. Across the party there is a growing confidence that message, money and personnel are coming together effectively at last. Suddenly, an insurmountable electoral gap looks as if, with a following wind, it might be closed in the heat of an election.

    Even the evident improvement in Ed Miliband’s standing on the Left, thanks to his smartly populist offer of a temporary energy price freeze, hasn’t dented Tory optimism. The reason for that is all around us: however well Mr Miliband may be doing, the economy is doing better. This week should bring more good news for the Chancellor and the Prime Minister. Inflation is expected to have fallen in the figures announced today. Unemployment, revealed tomorrow, is likely to be down again, too. And the Bank of England is predicted to raise its forecast for growth next year towards 2.5 per cent. No one can bear to say it, but as Mr Osborne’s officials predicted privately at the beginning of the year, the economy is going gangbusters."
  • Scott_PScott_P Posts: 51,453
    @TelePolitics: Blog: As the economy recovers, so do the Tories’ prospects of victory http://t.co/vFhTyeq4oF by @benedictbrogan

    In 3, 2, 1,...
  • AndyJSAndyJS Posts: 29,395
    HYUFD said:

    New Oz Newspoll shows Abbott's honeymoon has ended and the polling position after Shorten's election as ALP leader is back to the level of September's election

    The Coalition is leading Labor 53-47, down from 56-44 a fortnight ago. The Coalition is down two points on the primary vote to 45%, with Labor up one to 32% and the Greens up two to 12%. Tony Abbott’s personal ratings are still much better than any he enjoyed as Opposition Leader, although he is down two on approval to 45% and up four on disapproval to 38%. Bill Shorten has made a handy five-point gain on approval to 37%, with disapproval steady at 24%. Preferred prime minister changes only slightly, Abbott’s lead of 47-28 a fortnight ago narrowing to 46-30.

    53-47 is the same as the election result, of course.
  • fitalassfitalass Posts: 4,320
    Twitter
    ITV News ‏@itvnews 2m
    The Chancellor's Autumn Statement has been moved to 5 December, @hmtreasury announces http://itv.co/1i2pl5w
  • BenMBenM Posts: 1,795
    Schards said:



    Nope, but reminding the electorate of Labour's record is easier and more effective. Then it's just a case of demonstrating the coalition's superior record on the economy, jobs, reducing the deficit, unemployment, immigration, equality, etc, etc.

    It's been tough, it's been hurting, but it is working, we've come this far, don't let Labour mess it all up again.

    From about 1 month out

    Hope so - from "1 month out" is 6 months too late. Many people will have made up their minds by about this time next year (all to play for before then though).

    If this is a recovery it is the worst looking recovery I have seen or studied. Nothing like the last major recovery out of a deep Tory recession when investment and exports grew as you'd expect.

    And wasn't "it's hurting but it's working" a slogan from another glorious Tory failure ( of whom we've heard rather a lot recently).
  • NextNext Posts: 826
    UK to send ship to help Philippines, David Cameron announces

    http://www.bbc.co.uk/news/uk-politics-24906526
  • tim said:

    Making it up as they go along

    @TelegraphNews: David Cameron has delayed the Autumn Statement on the economy in order to conduct a major diplomatic visit to China http://t.co/Sqt1dDdQTO

    Is Cameron going to:

    1) Apologise for some historical event
    2) Say Britain was China's 'junior partner' in some historical event
    3) Both
  • BobajobBobajob Posts: 1,536
    @Olly T

    There's that and the fact the national debt will have doubled from Labour's level by 2015. That's a factoid Labour can throw in whenever the Tories start posturing on the public finances. My sense is most people don't realise that the govt has been piling on debt (the public still confuse debt and deficit, not least because so do politicians) and that will come as quite a shock.

    (They will have reduced the deficit somewhat on 2009 levels but it will still be higher than in most years of the Labour govt)
  • FloaterFloater Posts: 14,207

    Bobajob said:

    SeanT said:

    tim said:

    The gender gap is stunning, and the leader ratings continue to improve for Miliband - it's firming up the 2010 LDs and has been since Syria.

    Oh, and it's a good time to remember the PB Tory motto

    The PB Tories are always wrong
    The PB Tories never learn

    It's nothing to do with Syria, who remembers that? There wasn't even military action, in the end.

    It's everything to do with Miliband's stunt on energy (and his attack on the Mail). This simultaneously made him seem appealing and in touch to impoverished floaters, and shored up his core - hence his soaring ratings with Labour voters ever since.

    I remember a lefty friend of mine saying, when Miliband did it, "I like this energy price thing" - it was a sincerely positive remark from someone normally very cynical. That's when I started to wonder.

    As I said on the prior thread, it's a gimmick, but a brilliant gimmick - it must have been focus grouped beforehand. Miliband totally outflanked the Tories; hats off.

    The Tories are now in big trouble. Cam and Oz need to make this recovery feel better to the average voter, and they need to do it soon.
    Do you know who came up with the energy price sucker-punch? It would interesting to know the story behind it. Whoever it was deserves a big pay rise. A masterstroke that completely wrongfooted the govt.
    Aren't you even a teensy-weensy bit worried what'll happen if Miliband and the Labour team have to implement it?
    As we keep seeing with Labour power is all.

    Country was so far down their list of priorities last time, why think its going to be different this time?

    New Labour, Old Labour, Blue Labour, Len's Labour same old economic calamity
  • Mr. Ajob, would you have preferred the debt to remain level from 2010? That would've required far more cuts than those the Coalition implemented (described by Labour as 'too far, too fast').

    All parties play fast and loose with 'debt' and 'deficit', and get away with it because the electorate is apathetic and the media are pathetic.

    And your last half-line is utter silliness.

    "...but it [the deficit] will still be higher than in most years of the Labour govt)"

    That's like Labour crashing a car into a concrete wall at 70mph in 2009, the Conservatives and Lib Dems trying to fix it, and then observing the car doesn't seem to run as smoothly as it did for most years of the Labour Government.

    Labour inherited a strong economic situation, they left the other parties with a smoking crater. Of course things aren't anywhere near mended. If we had a more engaged electorate, parties with more courage and men of conviction and, most importantly, a media* that was broadly capable of more than regurgitating press releases and echoing the Westminster consensus we'd be in far better shape.

    *Most of the media is laughably bad, but Andrew Neil and Tim Marshall[sp], Sky's foreign affairs editor, are top chaps.
  • BobajobBobajob Posts: 1,536

    The Beast of Bolsover is up to his old tricks:

    Dennis Skinner: "Half the Tories opposite are crooks."
    Speaker: "Please retract"
    "Ok, half the Tories opposite aren’t crooks."

    :) nice post

    He is blessed with a rapier wit that guy. I hope all of us on here are as sharp at 81.

  • AlanbrookeAlanbrooke Posts: 25,516
    Bobajob said:

    @Olly T

    There's that and the fact the national debt will have doubled from Labour's level by 2015. That's a factoid Labour can throw in whenever the Tories start posturing on the public finances. My sense is most people don't realise that the govt has been piling on debt (the public still confuse debt and deficit, not least because so do politicians) and that will come as quite a shock.

    (They will have reduced the deficit somewhat on 2009 levels but it will still be higher than in most years of the Labour govt)

    It never ceases to amuse me how labour's concern for the public purse abandons them when they get in to office.

  • CarolaCarola Posts: 1,805
    Blimey, Cameron getting some stick in my journo timeline for the China *thing*.
  • To repeat.....Labour usually lose at least 4 points between 18 months out and election day on ICM. That takes them back to 34% or lower.

    The Tory figures are actually up on May/June even on 30%.

    Labour were up to 15 points ahead back in the spring and are now celebrating only being down 50% of that. Ho-hum.

    Brogan's right. Tories will be biggest party in 2015. I've actually got a vague feeling that Miliband will under-perform Brown because Scotland will desert him.
  • SchardsSchards Posts: 210
    BenM said:

    Schards said:



    Nope, but reminding the electorate of Labour's record is easier and more effective. Then it's just a case of demonstrating the coalition's superior record on the economy, jobs, reducing the deficit, unemployment, immigration, equality, etc, etc.

    It's been tough, it's been hurting, but it is working, we've come this far, don't let Labour mess it all up again.

    From about 1 month out

    Hope so - from "1 month out" is 6 months too late. Many people will have made up their minds by about this time next year (all to play for before then though).

    If this is a recovery it is the worst looking recovery I have seen or studied. Nothing like the last major recovery out of a deep Tory recession when investment and exports grew as you'd expect.

    And wasn't "it's hurting but it's working" a slogan from another glorious Tory failure ( of whom we've heard rather a lot recently).
    If this is a recovery???

    Kind of demonstrates Labour's grasp of the economy.

    WRT actual debt, the public don't remember much but I suspect "too far, too fast" will stick in tthe mind. Another stance that delivered mid term succour at the expense of election time credibility.
  • BenMBenM Posts: 1,795



    It never ceases to amuse me how labour's concern for the public purse abandons them when they get in to office.

    The Tory record must really knock you out then!

    It's far worse.
  • Scott_PScott_P Posts: 51,453
    Carola said:

    Blimey, Cameron getting some stick in my journo timeline for the China *thing*.

    @JananGanesh: People grumbling about govt deferring to big Asian country over our parliamentary timetable are not going to enjoy the 21st century...
  • CarolaCarola Posts: 1,805

    The Beast of Bolsover is up to his old tricks:

    Dennis Skinner: "Half the Tories opposite are crooks."
    Speaker: "Please retract"
    "Ok, half the Tories opposite aren’t crooks."

    Brilliant.
  • Mr. Ajob, I've heard that line before, except it was a Prime Minister delivering it (not sure who) and he said it about the Shadow Cabinet.
  • BobajobBobajob Posts: 1,536

    Mr. Ajob, would you have preferred the debt to remain level from 2010? That would've required far more cuts than those the Coalition implemented (described by Labour as 'too far, too fast').

    All parties play fast and loose with 'debt' and 'deficit', and get away with it because the electorate is apathetic and the media are pathetic.

    And your last half-line is utter silliness.

    "...but it [the deficit] will still be higher than in most years of the Labour govt)"

    That's like Labour crashing a car into a concrete wall at 70mph in 2009, the Conservatives and Lib Dems trying to fix it, and then observing the car doesn't seem to run as smoothly as it did for most years of the Labour Government.

    Labour inherited a strong economic situation, they left the other parties with a smoking crater. Of course things aren't anywhere near mended. If we had a more engaged electorate, parties with more courage and men of conviction and, most importantly, a media* that was broadly capable of more than regurgitating press releases and echoing the Westminster consensus we'd be in far better shape.

    *Most of the media is laughably bad, but Andrew Neil and Tim Marshall[sp], Sky's foreign affairs editor, are top chaps.

    I'm not casting a view, merely describing what the defence might look like. "Utter silliness" indeed - 'tis a fact, Mr Dancer.

    http://www.theguardian.com/news/datablog/2010/oct/18/deficit-debt-government-borrowing-data
  • AlanbrookeAlanbrooke Posts: 25,516
    BenM said:



    It never ceases to amuse me how labour's concern for the public purse abandons them when they get in to office.

    The Tory record must really knock you out then!

    It's far worse.
    Not really Ben.

    The labour record is they ALWAYS leave the economy in a mess. This government hasn't ceased yet and if there's a HP it may well continue, by which time the deficit will have gone and we'll be repaying debt.

  • foxinsoxukfoxinsoxuk Posts: 23,548
    While you have a perfect understanding of the female mind?!?

    As demonstrated by repeated misogyny on here.

    Pass the sickbag, Alice.
    tim said:

    AndyJS said:

    Anthony Wells on UKPR points out that the massive gender gap in the ICM poll doesn't really mean anything because the sample sizes aren't big enough:

    http://ukpollingreport.co.uk/blog/archives/8375

    I posted the leader ratings changes since 2010 on the last thread, Cameron has a woman problem

  • Mr. Ajob, I'm not questioning that the deficit both remains too high and is higher than it was for most of the years under Labour.

    I am questioning (indeed, describing as 'utter silliness') the view that this is primarily the fault of the Coalition. Labour gave use the longest, deepest recession in British history, not helped by the fact that Brown ran up £153bn in needless debt in the years immediately preceding it.

    The idea that our terrible situation could be remedied so that debt was level or actually fell during this Parliament is insane.

    It's also indefensible as a position to hold if you spent the Parliament criticising the Coalition for cutting too much (ie attacking the deficit too aggressively).
  • CarolaCarola Posts: 1,805
    Scott_P said:

    Carola said:

    Blimey, Cameron getting some stick in my journo timeline for the China *thing*.

    @JananGanesh: People grumbling about govt deferring to big Asian country over our parliamentary timetable are not going to enjoy the 21st century...
    Lord, that '21st century' blah. We're 13 years in ffs.
  • Bobajob said:

    @Olly T

    There's that and the fact the national debt will have doubled from Labour's level by 2015. That's a factoid Labour can throw in whenever the Tories start posturing on the public finances. My sense is most people don't realise that the govt has been piling on debt (the public still confuse debt and deficit, not least because so do politicians) and that will come as quite a shock.

    (They will have reduced the deficit somewhat on 2009 levels but it will still be higher than in most years of the Labour govt)

    It never ceases to amuse me how labour's concern for the public purse abandons them when they get in to office.

    It never ceases to amuse me they haven't got a fucking clue what they are talking about?
  • BobajobBobajob Posts: 1,536
    SeanT said:

    Bobajob said:

    @Olly T

    There's that and the fact the national debt will have doubled from Labour's level by 2015. That's a factoid Labour can throw in whenever the Tories start posturing on the public finances. My sense is most people don't realise that the govt has been piling on debt (the public still confuse debt and deficit, not least because so do politicians) and that will come as quite a shock.

    (They will have reduced the deficit somewhat on 2009 levels but it will still be higher than in most years of the Labour govt)

    Grotesquely stupid.
    You are normally more eloquent or at least funny in your attacks. Could you perhaps elaborate? The post above is entirely correct.
  • Carola said:

    Scott_P said:

    Carola said:

    Blimey, Cameron getting some stick in my journo timeline for the China *thing*.

    @JananGanesh: People grumbling about govt deferring to big Asian country over our parliamentary timetable are not going to enjoy the 21st century...
    Lord, that '21st century' blah. We're 13 years in ffs.
    12 if you want to be picky.....

  • OllyTOllyT Posts: 5,006
    @Scott P & Fitalass

    Those hanging their hopes for a Tory victory on the adage that "It's the Economy, Stupid" may be in for a bit of a surprise if the 40% of voters inclining towards Labour are feeling absolutely zero benefit from the "recovery". I doubt very much that the whole country is going to go into an election in 18 months brimming with the "feel good" factor regardless of how much better off the already comfortable the residents of the South East might feel.
  • tim said:

    tim said:

    Making it up as they go along

    @TelegraphNews: David Cameron has delayed the Autumn Statement on the economy in order to conduct a major diplomatic visit to China http://t.co/Sqt1dDdQTO

    Is Cameron going to:

    1) Apologise for some historical event
    2) Say Britain was China's 'junior partner' in some historical event
    3) Both
    I like his food turn.

    "David Cameron Reveals Preference For A Hot Curry Ahead Of India Visit"
    There's a fair chance he'll reveal his preference for a hot curry ahead of his China visit - 'and very good they are too'.

  • BenMBenM Posts: 1,795


    Not really Ben.

    The labour record is they ALWAYS leave the economy in a mess. This government hasn't ceased yet and if there's a HP it may well continue, by which time the deficit will have gone and we'll be repaying debt.

    Yes really.

    The Tories originally quadrupled the national debt - and by 1997 we had very little to show for it other than chronic high unemployment following two massive recessions that never ever got back to where it was in the bad old days of the 1970s.

    At least public services and infrastructure had been rebuilt by the end of Labour's tenure (this I think has cushioned attitudes towards this coalition somewhat, so consider yourselves damned lucky).
  • dr_spyndr_spyn Posts: 11,300
    Flag up this foul up by Manchester Council.

    http://www.bbc.co.uk/news/uk-england-manchester-24906040
  • JosiasJessopJosiasJessop Posts: 43,485
    Bobajob said:


    Aren't you even a teensy-weensy bit worried what'll happen if Miliband and the Labour team have to implement it?

    No. If the Big Six can't take a 20-month freeze there are plenty who will. The idea that we'll have no entrants to the market and blackouts is risible. Happy to make a bet.
    Go on, name these many entrants who are raring to enter our energy market. If anything, Miliband's policy has been putting off new entrants into the retail side of the market. One such potential new entrant has already said Miliband's plan would force him out of the market. Sadly, I cannot remember his name, or his company, but it was mentioned on here at the time.

    As for blackouts or brownouts: it is not risible. There have been warnings for a decade (since 2002, in fact), and they have become more strident with time. That does not mean they will happen: just that there is a large (and in my mind unacceptable) risk they will occur.

    Ed caused a large part of that risk hike when he signed the LCPD without ensuring that there was sufficient capacity to replace it. Now he is trying to bash the urgent investment that is needed.

    It's almost as if he actively wants brownouts or blackouts.

    http://www.bbc.co.uk/news/business-19842401
    https://www.ofgem.gov.uk/ofgem-publications/76253/20121005capacitypressrelease.pdf
  • BobajobBobajob Posts: 1,536

    Mr. Ajob, I'm not questioning that the deficit both remains too high and is higher than it was for most of the years under Labour.

    I am questioning (indeed, describing as 'utter silliness') the view that this is primarily the fault of the Coalition. Labour gave use the longest, deepest recession in British history, not helped by the fact that Brown ran up £153bn in needless debt in the years immediately preceding it.

    The idea that our terrible situation could be remedied so that debt was level or actually fell during this Parliament is insane.

    It's also indefensible as a position to hold if you spent the Parliament criticising the Coalition for cutting too much (ie attacking the deficit too aggressively).

    Like most Tories you seem to forget there is another side to the equation on deficit reduction.
  • Bobajob said:

    Mr. Ajob, I'm not questioning that the deficit both remains too high and is higher than it was for most of the years under Labour.

    I am questioning (indeed, describing as 'utter silliness') the view that this is primarily the fault of the Coalition. Labour gave use the longest, deepest recession in British history, not helped by the fact that Brown ran up £153bn in needless debt in the years immediately preceding it.

    The idea that our terrible situation could be remedied so that debt was level or actually fell during this Parliament is insane.

    It's also indefensible as a position to hold if you spent the Parliament criticising the Coalition for cutting too much (ie attacking the deficit too aggressively).

    Like most Tories you seem to forget there is another side to the equation on deficit reduction.
    Go on then..........
  • AndyJSAndyJS Posts: 29,395
    edited November 2013
    Interesting: iPad Air is officially £399 but on Amazon you can get it for £357. Is there any catch to this? I know it isn't much of a saving but I'm intrigued anyway:

    http://www.amazon.co.uk/gp/offer-listing/B00G4DSRPW/ref=sr_1_1_olp?ie=UTF8&qid=1384206953&sr=8-1&keywords=ipad+air&condition=new
  • Mr. Ajob, two points: I remain not a Tory. I did point this out to you quite recently (I recall you found it surprising).

    More importantly, please tell me what policies you think would have led to the debt staying flat or decreasing during this Parliament? Even Darling's fantasy forecasts did not (from memory) prophesy such a fiscal miracle.
  • AlanbrookeAlanbrooke Posts: 25,516
    edited November 2013
    BenM said:


    Not really Ben.

    The labour record is they ALWAYS leave the economy in a mess. This government hasn't ceased yet and if there's a HP it may well continue, by which time the deficit will have gone and we'll be repaying debt.

    Yes really.

    The Tories originally quadrupled the national debt - and by 1997 we had very little to show for it other than chronic high unemployment following two massive recessions that never ever got back to where it was in the bad old days of the 1970s.

    At least public services and infrastructure had been rebuilt by the end of Labour's tenure (this I think has cushioned attitudes towards this coalition somewhat, so consider yourselves damned lucky).
    Total garbage Ben. Where is this infrastructure ? Our rail system is creaking, there aren't enough houses, the motorway network is incomplete, there was no investment in energy, the schools and hospitals weren't paid for they were PFI'd, London still doesn't have a decent airport, our broadband's a joke but not as big as joke as your "rebuilt infrastructure ."
  • BobajobBobajob Posts: 1,536

    Mr. Ajob, two points: I remain not a Tory. I did point this out to you quite recently (I recall you found it surprising).

    More importantly, please tell me what policies you think would have led to the debt staying flat or decreasing during this Parliament? Even Darling's fantasy forecasts did not (from memory) prophesy such a fiscal miracle.

    The economy was growing when the coalition took power. It then went backwards.
  • CarolaCarola Posts: 1,805
    edited November 2013

    Carola said:

    Scott_P said:

    Carola said:

    Blimey, Cameron getting some stick in my journo timeline for the China *thing*.

    @JananGanesh: People grumbling about govt deferring to big Asian country over our parliamentary timetable are not going to enjoy the 21st century...
    Lord, that '21st century' blah. We're 13 years in ffs.
    12 if you want to be picky.....

    The last few years feel like longer ;)
  • BenM said:


    Not really Ben.

    The labour record is they ALWAYS leave the economy in a mess. This government hasn't ceased yet and if there's a HP it may well continue, by which time the deficit will have gone and we'll be repaying debt.

    Yes really.

    The Tories originally quadrupled the national debt - and by 1997 we had very little to show for it other than chronic high unemployment following two massive recessions that never ever got back to where it was in the bad old days of the 1970s.

    At least public services and infrastructure had been rebuilt by the end of Labour's tenure (this I think has cushioned attitudes towards this coalition somewhat, so consider yourselves damned lucky).
    Tell that to the victims of Staffordshire

  • HYUFDHYUFD Posts: 123,963
    TheSkeikofSheikh Miliband will not fall below about 35/36% because of the LD defectors, the LD vote is almost certain to be the lowest since the 13% of 1979 as all the social democrats have returned to Miliband
  • TheScreamingEaglesTheScreamingEagles Posts: 119,972
    edited November 2013
    AndyJS said:

    Interesting: iPad Air is officially £399 but on Amazon you can get it for £357. Is there any catch to this? I know it isn't much of a saving but I'm intrigued anyway:

    http://www.amazon.co.uk/gp/offer-listing/B00G4DSRPW/ref=sr_1_1_olp?ie=UTF8&qid=1384206953&sr=8-1&keywords=ipad+air&condition=new

    Yes, if you look at some of them, they are Johnny Foreigner models, such as Hong Kong variants, so the plugs may not be compatible here in the UK, and on mobile versions not all UK networks will work with them.

    Plus, Johnny Foreigner models won't be eligible for repair in Apple UK stores if they develop a fault.

    They only fix UK issued iPads.
  • Mr. Ajob, yes, but that neglects that Labour took a short-term view to bring forward spending (meaning less spending later) to artificially boost GDP and the eurozone sovereign debt crisis did not have a positive impact upon our economy.

    Also, even solid growth every year of this Parliament would not have enabled debt to fall.

    Anyway, I am off for the night.
  • CyclefreeCyclefree Posts: 25,326
    OllyT said:

    @Scott P & Fitalass

    Those hanging their hopes for a Tory victory on the adage that "It's the Economy, Stupid" may be in for a bit of a surprise if the 40% of voters inclining towards Labour are feeling absolutely zero benefit from the "recovery". I doubt very much that the whole country is going to go into an election in 18 months brimming with the "feel good" factor regardless of how much better off the already comfortable the residents of the South East might feel.

    You may well be right. The polls certainly point now to a Labour victory.

    But it's the residents of the South East who provide the vast bulk of the nation's tax revenues, disproportionately so. What we need is for the growth there to pull the rest of the nation up not to sneer at it, which is what all too many of those who like the spending the tax revenues do to those who earn those same revenues.

  • BobajobBobajob Posts: 1,536
    @Morris

    You are a Tory as you vote Tory. I am not saying you are a Tory member - there are very
    few of them. The economy was growing in 2010. It then went backwards.
  • BenMBenM Posts: 1,795
    edited November 2013



    Tell that to the victims of Staffordshire

    ...and the, er, "recovery" is a boon for the half a million victims of the coalition currently existing on handouts from foodbanks?
  • FregglesFreggles Posts: 3,486
    AndyJS said:

    Interesting: iPad Air is officially £399 but on Amazon you can get it for £357. Is there any catch to this? I know it isn't much of a saving but I'm intrigued anyway:

    http://www.amazon.co.uk/gp/offer-listing/B00G4DSRPW/ref=sr_1_1_olp?ie=UTF8&qid=1384206953&sr=8-1&keywords=ipad+air&condition=new

    American model, probably bought cheaper in dollars and a load shipped over.

    A safer bet is from Tesco with a voucher code, ten pounds more but no shipping cost if you pick it up in store. If there's a problem it's much easier to return
    http://www.hotukdeals.com/deals/ipad-air-16gb-black-white-now-stock-tesco-direct-with-30-00-off-369-1696696
  • AlanbrookeAlanbrooke Posts: 25,516
    Bobajob said:

    @Morris

    You are a Tory as you vote Tory. I am not saying you are a Tory member - there are very
    few of them. The economy was growing in 2010. It then went backwards.

    I don't like defending Osborne, but really that's just plain stupid. The economy is bigger today than it was in 2010 and no doubt you've conveniently forgotten that the estimates of Labour's disastrous tenure were revised to say the economy fell by a further 2% than Ed Balls told us.

    labour - shit with money.
  • BobajobBobajob Posts: 1,536
    @Josias

    People are forever warning of all manner of stuff - remember strange people walking around in face masks thinking they would get bird flu? Happy to have a gentlemanly charity wager with you. Please take that offer in the spirit it is intended - I am equally happy not to bet.
  • Enjoyed Gareth's choir prog - could have been 30 mins though but for the Boylesque production.

    I think there's some cuts in Birmingham in the public sector, who knew?
  • BobajobBobajob Posts: 1,536
    SeanT said:

    BenM said:


    Not really Ben.

    The labour record is they ALWAYS leave the economy in a mess. This government hasn't ceased yet and if there's a HP it may well continue, by which time the deficit will have gone and we'll be repaying debt.

    Yes really.

    The Tories originally quadrupled the national debt - and by 1997 we had very little to show for it other than chronic high unemployment following two massive recessions that never ever got back to where it was in the bad old days of the 1970s.

    At least public services and infrastructure had been rebuilt by the end of Labour's tenure (this I think has cushioned attitudes towards this coalition somewhat, so consider yourselves damned lucky).

    Retarded.
    Have you tried prune juice and honey? Flushes out the system
  • foxinsoxukfoxinsoxuk Posts: 23,548
    I hope that he has packed his trousers so that he does not need to order some made at tax payers expense, as Alex Salmond did.

    http://www.telegraph.co.uk/news/uknews/scotland/10359238/Alex-Salmonds-secrecy-battle-over-250-tartan-trews.html



    tim said:

    tim said:

    Making it up as they go along

    @TelegraphNews: David Cameron has delayed the Autumn Statement on the economy in order to conduct a major diplomatic visit to China http://t.co/Sqt1dDdQTO

    Is Cameron going to:

    1) Apologise for some historical event
    2) Say Britain was China's 'junior partner' in some historical event
    3) Both
    I like his food turn.

    "David Cameron Reveals Preference For A Hot Curry Ahead Of India Visit"
    There's a fair chance he'll reveal his preference for a hot curry ahead of his China visit - 'and very good they are too'.

  • BenM said:



    Tell that to the victims of Staffordshire

    ...and the, er, "recovery" is a boon for the half a million victims of the coalition currently existing on handouts from foodbanks?
    I think you'll find they are victims of 13 years of Labour.

    And of the infrastructure improvements you speak of under Labour, why don't you tell us how much was funded by PFI, how much there is still to repay and how long those contracts run for.
  • BobajobBobajob Posts: 1,536

    Bobajob said:

    @Morris

    You are a Tory as you vote Tory. I am not saying you are a Tory member - there are very
    few of them. The economy was growing in 2010. It then went backwards.

    I don't like defending Osborne, but really that's just plain stupid. The economy is bigger today than it was in 2010 and no doubt you've conveniently forgotten that the estimates of Labour's disastrous tenure were revised to say the economy fell by a further 2% than Ed Balls told us.

    labour - shit with money.
    Erm, the last Tory government presided over rocketing debt.

    So the economy should be bigger - doesn't alter the fact that three years were wasted by the incompetent tool that is Ozzy.
  • BobajobBobajob Posts: 1,536
    Cyclefree said:

    OllyT said:

    @Scott P & Fitalass

    The much better off the already comfortable the residents of the South East might feel.

    You may well be right. The polls certainly point now to a Labour victory.

    But it's the residents of the South East who provide the vast bulk of the nation's tax revenues, disproportionately so. What we need is for the growth there to pull the rest of the nation up not to sneer at it, which is what all too many of those who like the spending the tax revenues do to those who earn those same revenues.

    It's simply that the residents of Bumpkin Magna dislike Londoners, as is evidenced on here regularly when the straw-munchers advance en masse with their pitchforks.

  • TheScreamingEaglesTheScreamingEagles Posts: 119,972
    edited November 2013
    Kerching

    ooooh Dave, the ex Bullingdon boy has had his tattoo

    twitter.com/suttonnick/status/400024244098052097/photo/1
  • AlanbrookeAlanbrooke Posts: 25,516
    Bobajob said:

    Bobajob said:

    @Morris

    You are a Tory as you vote Tory. I am not saying you are a Tory member - there are very
    few of them. The economy was growing in 2010. It then went backwards.

    I don't like defending Osborne, but really that's just plain stupid. The economy is bigger today than it was in 2010 and no doubt you've conveniently forgotten that the estimates of Labour's disastrous tenure were revised to say the economy fell by a further 2% than Ed Balls told us.

    labour - shit with money.
    Erm, the last Tory government presided over rocketing debt.

    So the economy should be bigger - doesn't alter the fact that three years were wasted by the incompetent tool that is Ozzy.
    Well I'm not an Osborne fan, but compared to Brown and Balls he's a genius.

    I note that, both Eds have lost the economic debate and called the economy wrong.Now they need to jump on to something else so they've chosen cost of living, and I'm predicting they'll lose that too since HMG can do something about it on the back of a recovering economy and the opposition can only moan.

    Labour- still shit with money.
  • FloaterFloater Posts: 14,207
    Scott_P said:

    R0berts said:


    So you won't even take a charity bet on a Tory majority?

    Nailed off = 50/50 chance...

    Learn something new every day
    LOL
  • R0bertsR0berts Posts: 391
    Bobajob said:

    @Josias

    People are forever warning of all manner of stuff - remember strange people walking around in face masks thinking they would get bird flu? Happy to have a gentlemanly charity wager with you. Please take that offer in the spirit it is intended - I am equally happy not to bet.

    Oh God, don't go offering small good-natured charity bets to PB Tories, it gets you in all sorts of trouble, see below!
  • AlanbrookeAlanbrooke Posts: 25,516
    Bobajob said:

    Cyclefree said:

    OllyT said:

    @Scott P & Fitalass

    The much better off the already comfortable the residents of the South East might feel.

    You may well be right. The polls certainly point now to a Labour victory.

    But it's the residents of the South East who provide the vast bulk of the nation's tax revenues, disproportionately so. What we need is for the growth there to pull the rest of the nation up not to sneer at it, which is what all too many of those who like the spending the tax revenues do to those who earn those same revenues.

    It's simply that the residents of Bumpkin Magna dislike Londoners, as is evidenced on here regularly when the straw-munchers advance en masse with their pitchforks.

    BaJ you're not a Londoner. You grew up in a Hovis advert.
  • BenMBenM Posts: 1,795

    BenM said:



    Tell that to the victims of Staffordshire

    ...and the, er, "recovery" is a boon for the half a million victims of the coalition currently existing on handouts from foodbanks?
    I think you'll find they are victims of 13 years of Labour.

    And of the infrastructure improvements you speak of under Labour, why don't you tell us how much was funded by PFI, how much there is still to repay and how long those contracts run for.
    It's never your fault with you rightwingers is it?! Even though foodbank use rockets under your tenure it has to be someone else's fault.

    As for PFI - you Tories invented it. I wouldn't pay for infrastructure that way either given how much more expensive private finance is versus government debt. But that was the madness of pre 2008-9 policy landscape shaped by 25 years of conservative economic thinking. One would have thought the Tories had learned their lesson, but no, Osborne continues PFI.

    Worth noting that most of the cost of PFI is for 30 years of servicing of the buildings (the capital cost paid off when the buildings came into use).
  • AndyJSAndyJS Posts: 29,395
    25 of Labour's top 50 targets have selected female candidates, with 4 selections still to be made.
  • BobajobBobajob Posts: 1,536

    Bobajob said:

    Cyclefree said:

    OllyT said:

    @Scott P & Fitalass

    The much better off the already comfortable the residents of the South East might feel.

    You may well be right. The polls certainly point now to a Labour victory.

    But it's the residents of the South East who provide the vast bulk of the nation's tax revenues, disproportionately so. What we need is for the growth there to pull the rest of the nation up not to sneer at it, which is what all too many of those who like the spending the tax revenues do to those who earn those same revenues.

    It's simply that the residents of Bumpkin Magna dislike Londoners, as is evidenced on here regularly when the straw-munchers advance en masse with their pitchforks.

    BaJ you're not a Londoner. You grew up in a Hovis advert.
    :) you've clearly never visited the shit hole that I grew up in.

    I've lived in London longer than I have anywhere else. Thankfully.
  • fitalassfitalass Posts: 4,320
    Its interesting to note the improving diplomatic relations between Britain and China over the last few months, and despite Cameron's decision to ignore Chinese sensitivities and meet with the Dalai Lama on his visit to the UK. IIRC, Alex Salmond didn't have the same courage to meet the Dalai Lama despite political pressure to do so in Scotland. But I am sure that Salmond has managed to meet the two lazy bamboo eating furballs safely tucked up in Edinburgh Zoo instead. :)

    I hope that he has packed his trousers so that he does not need to order some made at tax payers expense, as Alex Salmond did.

    http://www.telegraph.co.uk/news/uknews/scotland/10359238/Alex-Salmonds-secrecy-battle-over-250-tartan-trews.html





    tim said:

    tim said:

    Making it up as they go along

    @TelegraphNews: David Cameron has delayed the Autumn Statement on the economy in order to conduct a major diplomatic visit to China http://t.co/Sqt1dDdQTO

    Is Cameron going to:

    1) Apologise for some historical event
    2) Say Britain was China's 'junior partner' in some historical event
    3) Both
    I like his food turn.

    "David Cameron Reveals Preference For A Hot Curry Ahead Of India Visit"
    There's a fair chance he'll reveal his preference for a hot curry ahead of his China visit - 'and very good they are too'.

  • Bloody hell, what is it about Labour that makes them say such incendiary comments on immigration

    Roma migrants could cause riots in cities, warns Blunkett

    British cities could face race riots as an influx of Roma migrants creates “frictions” with local people, David Blunkett warns

    http://www.telegraph.co.uk/news/uknews/immigration/10442352/Roma-migrants-could-cause-riots-in-cities-warns-Blunkett.html
  • JosiasJessopJosiasJessop Posts: 43,485
    Bobajob said:

    @Josias

    People are forever warning of all manner of stuff - remember strange people walking around in face masks thinking they would get bird flu? Happy to have a gentlemanly charity wager with you. Please take that offer in the spirit it is intended - I am equally happy not to bet.

    So you are saying you know better than OFGEM and other experts? Are you sure that's not just your political belief getting in the way of common sense?

    A bet would be rather stupid. OFGEM et al are not saying that brownouts or blackouts are inevitable; just that the risk of them happening is too great. Basically, the system is under too much stress, with not enough excess capacity.

    I'm not really a gambler by nature. Even if I was, I'm not sure I'd want to take on such a bet, especially when I'm betting on an outcome I don't want to happen, and that would be problematic for everyone.
  • OllyTOllyT Posts: 5,006
    Cyclefree said:

    OllyT said:

    @Scott P & Fitalass

    Those hanging their hopes for a Tory victory on the adage that "It's the Economy, Stupid" may be in for a bit of a surprise if the 40% of voters inclining towards Labour are feeling absolutely zero benefit from the "recovery". I doubt very much that the whole country is going to go into an election in 18 months brimming with the "feel good" factor regardless of how much better off the already comfortable the residents of the South East might feel.

    You may well be right. The polls certainly point now to a Labour victory.

    But it's the residents of the South East who provide the vast bulk of the nation's tax revenues, disproportionately so. What we need is for the growth there to pull the rest of the nation up not to sneer at it, which is what all too many of those who like the spending the tax revenues do to those who earn those same revenues.

    Of course the residents of the South East pay a disproportionate amount of the nation's taxes, they have a disproportionate amount of the nation's wealth. I am sure that the residents of other regions of the country would be only too delighted to be paying that amount of tax.

    However the point I was making was that the indications are that the beneficiaries of economic growth are those that are already wealthy and by definition already likely to be voting Tory. If that proves to be the case by May 2015 a growing economy won't be enough per se to give the Tories a majority.
  • BobajobBobajob Posts: 1,536
    R0berts said:

    Bobajob said:

    @Josias

    People are forever warning of all manner of stuff - remember strange people walking around in face masks thinking they would get bird flu? Happy to have a gentlemanly charity wager with you. Please take that offer in the spirit it is intended - I am equally happy not to bet.

    Oh God, don't go offering small good-natured charity bets to PB Tories, it gets you in all sorts of trouble, see below!
    Josias is a better class of Tory. He's a good guy.
  • AlanbrookeAlanbrooke Posts: 25,516
    Bobajob said:

    Bobajob said:

    Cyclefree said:

    OllyT said:

    @Scott P & Fitalass

    The much better off the already comfortable the residents of the South East might feel.

    You may well be right. The polls certainly point now to a Labour victory.

    But it's the residents of the South East who provide the vast bulk of the nation's tax revenues, disproportionately so. What we need is for the growth there to pull the rest of the nation up not to sneer at it, which is what all too many of those who like the spending the tax revenues do to those who earn those same revenues.

    It's simply that the residents of Bumpkin Magna dislike Londoners, as is evidenced on here regularly when the straw-munchers advance en masse with their pitchforks.

    BaJ you're not a Londoner. You grew up in a Hovis advert.
    :) you've clearly never visited the shit hole that I grew up in.

    I've lived in London longer than I have anywhere else. Thankfully.

  • BenMBenM Posts: 1,795

    Bobajob said:

    Bobajob said:

    @Morris

    You are a Tory as you vote Tory. I am not saying you are a Tory member - there are very
    few of them. The economy was growing in 2010. It then went backwards.

    I don't like defending Osborne, but really that's just plain stupid. The economy is bigger today than it was in 2010 and no doubt you've conveniently forgotten that the estimates of Labour's disastrous tenure were revised to say the economy fell by a further 2% than Ed Balls told us.

    labour - shit with money.
    Erm, the last Tory government presided over rocketing debt.

    So the economy should be bigger - doesn't alter the fact that three years were wasted by the incompetent tool that is Ozzy.
    Well I'm not an Osborne fan, but compared to Brown and Balls he's a genius.

    I note that, both Eds have lost the economic debate and called the economy wrong.Now they need to jump on to something else so they've chosen cost of living, and I'm predicting they'll lose that too since HMG can do something about it on the back of a recovering economy and the opposition can only moan.

    Labour- still shit with money.
    Yes in Tory cupcake land 3 years stagnation really is trumped by 2 quarters of mortgage debt fuelled growth.
  • AlanbrookeAlanbrooke Posts: 25,516

    Bobajob said:

    Bobajob said:

    Cyclefree said:

    OllyT said:

    @Scott P & Fitalass

    The much better off the already comfortable the residents of the South East might feel.

    You may well be right. The polls certainly point now to a Labour victory.

    But it's the residents of the South East who provide the vast bulk of the nation's tax revenues, disproportionately so. What we need is for the growth there to pull the rest of the nation up not to sneer at it, which is what all too many of those who like the spending the tax revenues do to those who earn those same revenues.

    It's simply that the residents of Bumpkin Magna dislike Londoners, as is evidenced on here regularly when the straw-munchers advance en masse with their pitchforks.

    BaJ you're not a Londoner. You grew up in a Hovis advert.
    :) you've clearly never visited the shit hole that I grew up in.

    I've lived in London longer than I have anywhere else. Thankfully.

    You've deserted your community and betrayed your class with your fancy London ways. ;-)
  • R0bertsR0berts Posts: 391

    Bobajob said:

    Bobajob said:

    @Morris

    You are a Tory as you vote Tory. I am not saying you are a Tory member - there are very
    few of them. The economy was growing in 2010. It then went backwards.

    I don't like defending Osborne, but really that's just plain stupid. The economy is bigger today than it was in 2010 and no doubt you've conveniently forgotten that the estimates of Labour's disastrous tenure were revised to say the economy fell by a further 2% than Ed Balls told us.

    labour - shit with money.
    Erm, the last Tory government presided over rocketing debt.

    So the economy should be bigger - doesn't alter the fact that three years were wasted by the incompetent tool that is Ozzy.
    Well I'm not an Osborne fan, but compared to Brown and Balls he's a genius.

    I note that, both Eds have lost the economic debate and called the economy wrong.Now they need to jump on to something else so they've chosen cost of living, and I'm predicting they'll lose that too since HMG can do something about it on the back of a recovering economy and the opposition can only moan.

    Labour- still shit with money.
    The cost of living debate isn't seperate from the economic debate. It IS the economic debate.

    For what is the "economic debate" about if it's not about how to improve the living standards of people in Britain?
  • I think I used to prefer it when Labour supporters on here used to accuse Osborne of cutting too far, too fast.

    Turns out now they aren't happy that he didn't cut too far, too fast.
  • AlanbrookeAlanbrooke Posts: 25,516
    BenM said:

    Bobajob said:

    Bobajob said:

    @Morris

    You are a Tory as you vote Tory. I am not saying you are a Tory member - there are very
    few of them. The economy was growing in 2010. It then went backwards.

    I don't like defending Osborne, but really that's just plain stupid. The economy is bigger today than it was in 2010 and no doubt you've conveniently forgotten that the estimates of Labour's disastrous tenure were revised to say the economy fell by a further 2% than Ed Balls told us.

    labour - shit with money.
    Erm, the last Tory government presided over rocketing debt.

    So the economy should be bigger - doesn't alter the fact that three years were wasted by the incompetent tool that is Ozzy.
    Well I'm not an Osborne fan, but compared to Brown and Balls he's a genius.

    I note that, both Eds have lost the economic debate and called the economy wrong.Now they need to jump on to something else so they've chosen cost of living, and I'm predicting they'll lose that too since HMG can do something about it on the back of a recovering economy and the opposition can only moan.

    Labour- still shit with money.
    Yes in Tory cupcake land 3 years stagnation really is trumped by 2 quarters of mortgage debt fuelled growth.
    From people who gave us 10 years of mortgage debt fuelled growth that really is quite funny.
    No more boom and bust - as if.
  • SeanT said:

    The Rugby League "world cup" is faintly tragic. Stop. Just stop.

    There's a Rugby League World Cup going on?
  • AndyJSAndyJS Posts: 29,395

    Bloody hell, what is it about Labour that makes them say such incendiary comments on immigration

    Roma migrants could cause riots in cities, warns Blunkett

    British cities could face race riots as an influx of Roma migrants creates “frictions” with local people, David Blunkett warns

    http://www.telegraph.co.uk/news/uknews/immigration/10442352/Roma-migrants-could-cause-riots-in-cities-warns-Blunkett.html

    David Blunkett has always been a blunt speaker. I remember him saying that he felt like opening a bottle of champagne on hearing of the death of Harold Shipman.
  • AndyJS said:

    Bloody hell, what is it about Labour that makes them say such incendiary comments on immigration

    Roma migrants could cause riots in cities, warns Blunkett

    British cities could face race riots as an influx of Roma migrants creates “frictions” with local people, David Blunkett warns

    http://www.telegraph.co.uk/news/uknews/immigration/10442352/Roma-migrants-could-cause-riots-in-cities-warns-Blunkett.html

    David Blunkett has always been a blunt speaker. I remember him saying that he felt like opening a bottle of champagne on hearing of the death of Harold Shipman.
    Well he's a Sheffield Lad, we're noted for our bluntness.
  • BenM said:

    BenM said:



    Tell that to the victims of Staffordshire

    ...and the, er, "recovery" is a boon for the half a million victims of the coalition currently existing on handouts from foodbanks?
    I think you'll find they are victims of 13 years of Labour.

    And of the infrastructure improvements you speak of under Labour, why don't you tell us how much was funded by PFI, how much there is still to repay and how long those contracts run for.
    It's never your fault with you rightwingers is it?! Even though foodbank use rockets under your tenure it has to be someone else's fault.

    As for PFI - you Tories invented it. I wouldn't pay for infrastructure that way either given how much more expensive private finance is versus government debt. But that was the madness of pre 2008-9 policy landscape shaped by 25 years of conservative economic thinking. One would have thought the Tories had learned their lesson, but no, Osborne continues PFI.

    Worth noting that most of the cost of PFI is for 30 years of servicing of the buildings (the capital cost paid off when the buildings came into use).
    I am not a Tory, I have never voted Tory and I never will vote Tory

    And by 2008-09 the Labour miscreants had been in power for 11 years, why didn't they change it? Who said there's no money left? Who spent it all, the economy was going great guns in 1997, who fucked it up?
  • AlanbrookeAlanbrooke Posts: 25,516
    R0berts said:

    Bobajob said:

    Bobajob said:

    @Morris

    You are a Tory as you vote Tory. I am not saying you are a Tory member - there are very
    few of them. The economy was growing in 2010. It then went backwards.

    I don't like defending Osborne, but really that's just plain stupid. The economy is bigger today than it was in 2010 and no doubt you've conveniently forgotten that the estimates of Labour's disastrous tenure were revised to say the economy fell by a further 2% than Ed Balls told us.

    labour - shit with money.
    Erm, the last Tory government presided over rocketing debt.

    So the economy should be bigger - doesn't alter the fact that three years were wasted by the incompetent tool that is Ozzy.
    Well I'm not an Osborne fan, but compared to Brown and Balls he's a genius.

    I note that, both Eds have lost the economic debate and called the economy wrong.Now they need to jump on to something else so they've chosen cost of living, and I'm predicting they'll lose that too since HMG can do something about it on the back of a recovering economy and the opposition can only moan.

    Labour- still shit with money.
    The cost of living debate isn't seperate from the economic debate. It IS the economic debate.

    For what is the "economic debate" about if it's not about how to improve the living standards of people in Britain?
    Ah right, that must be why importing 4 million people to push down workers' wages was such a resounding success.
  • JosiasJessopJosiasJessop Posts: 43,485
    Bobajob said:

    R0berts said:

    Bobajob said:

    @Josias

    People are forever warning of all manner of stuff - remember strange people walking around in face masks thinking they would get bird flu? Happy to have a gentlemanly charity wager with you. Please take that offer in the spirit it is intended - I am equally happy not to bet.

    Oh God, don't go offering small good-natured charity bets to PB Tories, it gets you in all sorts of trouble, see below!
    Josias is a better class of Tory. He's a good guy.
    Thanks. Genuinely.

    It's just a shame that the last time I voted, it was Green. ;-)
  • NickPalmerNickPalmer Posts: 21,568
    I claim a small canvassing prize for tentatively identifying the weakening Tory position here yesterday on the basis of the last couple of weeks' returns. The "don't let Labour ruin it" line isn't working at all, as (a) people don't feel well off, and are irritated by the Tories claiming that things are getting much better and (b) they don't think there's much difference in how parties handle the economy. I think they should, so do others here (though with different outcomes), but most people really don't.

    On a less contentious note, spent the day in Beverley, Yorks, for my day job (the council is debating approval of a breeding facility for beagles to go into laboratories). What a nice place - smashing architecture, interesting shops, really friendly people.
  • FrankBoothFrankBooth Posts: 9,928
    It is a little strange that the polls have moved towards Labour as the economy has gone into an upswing. Early days in the recovery but not what I was expecting.
  • fitalassfitalass Posts: 4,320
    Should have banked on Dimbleby doing an Eric Pickles the minute the bet appeared on PB. :)

    Kerching

    ooooh Dave, the ex Bullingdon boy has had his tattoo

    twitter.com/suttonnick/status/400024244098052097/photo/1

  • BobajobBobajob Posts: 1,536
    OllyT said:

    Cyclefree said:

    OllyT said:

    @Scott P & Fitalass

    >

    You may well be right. The polls certainly point now to a Labour victory.

    But it's the residents of the South East who provide the vast bulk of the nation's tax revenues, disproportionately so. What we need is for the growth there to pull the rest of the nation up not to sneer at it, which is what all too many of those who like the spending the tax revenues do to those who earn those same revenues.
    be voting Tory. If that proves to be the case by May 2015 a growing economy won't be enough per se to give the Tories a majority.

    Bobajob said:

    @Josias

    People are forever warning of all manner of stuff - remember strange people walking around in face masks thinking they would get bird flu? Happy to have a gentlemanly charity wager with you. Please take that offer in the spirit it is intended - I am equally happy not to bet.

    So you are saying you know better than OFGEM and other experts? Are you sure that's not just your political belief getting in the way of common sense?

    A bet would be rather stupid. OFGEM et al are not saying that brownouts or blackouts are inevitable; just that the risk of them happening is too great. Basically, the system is under too much stress, with not enough excess capacity.

    I'm not really a gambler by nature. Even if I was, I'm not sure I'd want to take on such a bet, especially when I'm betting on an outcome I don't want to happen, and that would be problematic for everyone.
    No problem. But there's nothing wrong with betting on an outcome you don't want to happen - I lost a heap on McCain. So hmm, I guess in that case it was wrong but... You catch my drift.

This discussion has been closed.