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politicalbetting.com » Blog Archive » LAB take 8pc lead in the November ICM phone poll for the Gu

SystemSystem Posts: 12,215
edited November 2013 in General

politicalbetting.com » Blog Archive » LAB take 8pc lead in the November ICM phone poll for the Guardian

The November phone poll by ICM for the Guardian is just out and has good news for three of the parties but bad news for the Tories. They’ve now dropped 4 to 30% in what is the worst showing since February.

Read the full story here


«13

Comments

  • Ed's done well since the summer, Dave less so.
  • 39% of those who voted LD at GE2010 tell ICM that now they are voting LAB

    Let us hope that 39% is in LD/Con marginals
  • Cameron lost a much bigger lead over the last 18 months of the last Parliament, so anything can happen. But that Labour vote has now been on or above 35% every month for over three years. And Ed's leadership credentials are now firming up among Labour supporters. The Tories need something to happen or the economic recovery to start feeding through. Even then, they may just find that the anti-Tory vote will be big enough to win Labour most seats. It's all very interesting, that's for sure.

    That more style than substance finding is horrible for Cameron. What's the gender breakdown on that?
  • This is a very bad poll for the Tories particuarly as it comes from a pollster with such a record for getting it right.
  • Con down 4 and Lab flat. I wonder why?
  • Dave way out ahead as having more style than substance and even on best PM the lead is narrowish.
  • MarkSeniorMarkSenior Posts: 4,699
    edited November 2013

    39% of those who voted LD at GE2010 tell ICM that now they are voting LAB

    Let us hope that 39% is in LD/Con marginals

    That figure of 39% will be incorrect . It will be the figure after eliminating Don't Knows . For example
    September poll The figure in Table 2 was 18% but after eliminating don't Knows became 27% in Table 3 DK's etc were 30%
    October poll the figure in Table 2 was 19% but after eliminating Don't Knows became 30% in Table 3 DK's etc were 34%
  • TheScreamingEaglesTheScreamingEagles Posts: 119,963
    edited November 2013

    This is a very bad poll for the Tories particuarly as it comes from a pollster with such a record for getting it right.

    Be interesting to see what the Mori polling shows, that should be out on Wed/Thurs.
  • Mike Smithson ‏@MSmithsonPB 2m

    At this stage before the 2010 election ICM had the Tories on 43 with a 13%
    At GE2010 they got 37 - 7 ahead
  • Looking back to 12 months ago.

    The changes are

    Con -2

    Lab -2

    LD nc

    UKIP +3
  • BobajobBobajob Posts: 1,536
    tim said:

    The gender gap is stunning, and the leader ratings continue to improve for Miliband - it's firming up the 2010 LDs and has been since Syria.

    Oh, and it's a good time to remember the PB Tory motto

    The PB Tories are always wrong
    The PB Tories never learn

    Smash families with Child Taxes and cuts to HR vouchers and SureStart and do f-- all for 3.5 years to help with the highest childcare costs in Europe and you might find you aren't the most popular boy at the disco

  • This is a very bad poll for the Tories particuarly as it comes from a pollster with such a record for getting it right.

    But isn't this the pollster whose spokesperson was telling the Telegraph a couple of months ago that the Lab/Con crossover point was approaching?

    More seriously - all the points are pointing the same way at the moment: a solid Labour share, the Tories not so much. That seems to suggest that Labour has hit its maximum; the Tories have a chance to get more. To have any chance of winning, though, they have to see Labour drop below 35%.

  • 39% of those who voted LD at GE2010 tell ICM that now they are voting LAB

    Let us hope that 39% is in LD/Con marginals

    That figure of 39% will be incorrect . It will be the figure after eliminating Don't Knows . Gor example
    September poll The figure in Table 2 was 18% but after eliminating don't Knows became 27% in Table 3 DK's etc were 30%
    October poll the figure in Table 2 was 19% but after eliminating Don't Knows became 30% in Table 3 DK's etc were 34%
    I just wish ICM followed ComRes' lead and published their tables immediately
  • @SouthamObserver To have any chance the blues have to see the kippers and 2010 LD return.
  • This is a very bad poll for the Tories particuarly as it comes from a pollster with such a record for getting it right.

    I wonder if any Tory MP's realise they will lose their seat and are considering joining UKIP

  • BobajobBobajob Posts: 1,536

    This is a very bad poll for the Tories particuarly as it comes from a pollster with such a record for getting it right.

    But isn't this the pollster whose spokesperson was telling the Telegraph a couple of months ago that the Lab/Con crossover point was approaching?

    More seriously - all the points are pointing the same way at the moment: a solid Labour share, the Tories not so much. That seems to suggest that Labour has hit its maximum; the Tories have a chance to get more. To have any chance of winning, though, they have to see Labour drop below 35%.

    What was ICM without the Spiral of Shame adjustment?
  • @SouthamObserver To have any chance the blues have to see the kippers and 2010 LD return.

    The 2010 LDs will return in the seats where the LDs are fighting the Tories. Elsewhere, I fear that most of them are lost to the LDs for a very long time. The UKIPers are interesting - but the more the Tories chase their votes, the more they motivate the anti-Tory vote. If only the Tories had backed AV!

  • Great.

    Tories and Spurs failing to score against inferior opposition.
  • BobajobBobajob Posts: 1,536
    SeanT said:

    tim said:

    The gender gap is stunning, and the leader ratings continue to improve for Miliband - it's firming up the 2010 LDs and has been since Syria.

    Oh, and it's a good time to remember the PB Tory motto

    The PB Tories are always wrong
    The PB Tories never learn

    It's nothing to do with Syria, who remembers that? There wasn't even military action, in the end.

    It's everything to do with Miliband's stunt on energy (and his attack on the Mail). This simultaneously made him seem appealing and in touch to impoverished floaters, and shored up his core - hence his soaring ratings with Labour voters ever since.

    I remember a lefty friend of mine saying, when Miliband did it, "I like this energy price thing" - it was a sincerely positive remark from someone normally very cynical. That's when I started to wonder.

    As I said on the prior thread, it's a gimmick, but a brilliant gimmick - it must have been focus grouped beforehand. Miliband totally outflanked the Tories; hats off.

    The Tories are now in big trouble. Cam and Oz need to make this recovery feel better to the average voter, and they need to do it soon.
    Do you know who came up with the energy price sucker-punch? It would interesting to know the story behind it. Whoever it was deserves a big pay rise. A masterstroke that completely wrongfooted the govt.
  • perdixperdix Posts: 1,806

    This is a very bad poll for the Tories particuarly as it comes from a pollster with such a record for getting it right.

    Bet ReD is very pleased - you can fool some of the people all the time.

  • surbitonsurbiton Posts: 13,549
    Bobajob said:

    tim said:

    The gender gap is stunning, and the leader ratings continue to improve for Miliband - it's firming up the 2010 LDs and has been since Syria.

    Oh, and it's a good time to remember the PB Tory motto

    The PB Tories are always wrong
    The PB Tories never learn

    Smash families with Child Taxes and cuts to HR vouchers and SureStart and do f-- all for 3.5 years to help with the highest childcare costs in Europe and you might find you aren't the most popular boy at the disco

    But surely, kids are looked after by their nannies !!
  • JosiasJessopJosiasJessop Posts: 43,471
    Bobajob said:

    SeanT said:

    tim said:

    The gender gap is stunning, and the leader ratings continue to improve for Miliband - it's firming up the 2010 LDs and has been since Syria.

    Oh, and it's a good time to remember the PB Tory motto

    The PB Tories are always wrong
    The PB Tories never learn

    It's nothing to do with Syria, who remembers that? There wasn't even military action, in the end.

    It's everything to do with Miliband's stunt on energy (and his attack on the Mail). This simultaneously made him seem appealing and in touch to impoverished floaters, and shored up his core - hence his soaring ratings with Labour voters ever since.

    I remember a lefty friend of mine saying, when Miliband did it, "I like this energy price thing" - it was a sincerely positive remark from someone normally very cynical. That's when I started to wonder.

    As I said on the prior thread, it's a gimmick, but a brilliant gimmick - it must have been focus grouped beforehand. Miliband totally outflanked the Tories; hats off.

    The Tories are now in big trouble. Cam and Oz need to make this recovery feel better to the average voter, and they need to do it soon.
    Do you know who came up with the energy price sucker-punch? It would interesting to know the story behind it. Whoever it was deserves a big pay rise. A masterstroke that completely wrongfooted the govt.
    Aren't you even a teensy-weensy bit worried what'll happen if Miliband and the Labour team have to implement it?
  • BobajobBobajob Posts: 1,536
    SeanT said:

    tim said:

    This is a very bad poll for the Tories particuarly as it comes from a pollster with such a record for getting it right.

    But isn't this the pollster whose spokesperson was telling the Telegraph a couple of months ago that the Lab/Con crossover point was approaching?

    More seriously - all the points are pointing the same way at the moment: a solid Labour share, the Tories not so much. That seems to suggest that Labour has hit its maximum; the Tories have a chance to get more. To have any chance of winning, though, they have to see Labour drop below 35%.

    "Martin Boon, the director of ICM, compared Mr Miliband’s leadership to Iain Duncan Smith’s spell in charge of the Conservatives.

    “Ed Miliband is not in a good place. Only a fifth of voters are satisfied with his performance,” he said. “It’s difficult to imagine that things could be any worse for him, or indeed how he can succeed in turning the public around.

    “He is becoming Labour’s IDS and if it carries on like this it’s hard not to think that we’ll be seeing Conservative polling leads very soon.”"
    Ed Miliband should send Paul Dacre a tenner in the post. The Mail's attack on his dad turned out to be an early Christmas present, allowing Ed to delight his core vote, by assaulting the hated Daily Heil.

    That and the energy wheeze have entirely reversed the narrative - I am starting to wonder how the Tories wrench it back.

    *Stares into middle distance* *Contemplates Prime Minister Miliband and Chancellor Balls*

    *gently weeps*
    I'm genuinely surprised you don't relish the prospect Sean - after all you often express in florid terms the extent of your hatred for Cameron and friends.
  • Bobajob said:



    Do you know who came up with the energy price sucker-punch? It would interesting to know the story behind it. Whoever it was deserves a big pay rise. A masterstroke that completely wrongfooted the govt.

    Why not offer electricity and gas for free? That would be even more popular.
  • fitalassfitalass Posts: 4,320
    The situation for Hollande really does put the current political position of the UK Government into perspective, and Ed Miliband praised the Holland victory and the direction he planned to take France. Now that is what a really unpopular President and Government making very unpopular decisions looks like, I am still not sure that Hollande will survive his Presidential term in Office.
    SeanT said:

    Meanwhile, across La Manche, in a curious synchronicity, Hollande has just recorded the lowest popularity ratings for "any French head of state".

    http://www.lefigaro.fr/flash-actu/2013/11/11/97001-20131111FILWWW00301-nouveau-record-d-impopularite-pour-hollande.php

    As I am now, so ye shall be? Prepare yourself to follow me....

  • BobajobBobajob Posts: 1,536
    SeanT said:

    tim said:

    This is a very bad poll for the Tories particuarly as it comes from a pollster with such a record for getting it right.

    But isn't this the pollster whose spokesperson was telling the Telegraph a couple of months ago that the Lab/Con crossover point was approaching?

    More seriously - all the points are pointing the same way at the moment: a solid Labour share, the Tories not so much. That seems to suggest that Labour has hit its maximum; the Tories have a chance to get more. To have any chance of winning, though, they have to see Labour drop below 35%.

    "Martin Boon, the director of ICM, compared Mr Miliband’s leadership to Iain Duncan Smith’s spell in charge of the Conservatives.

    “Ed Miliband is not in a good place. Only a fifth of voters are satisfied with his performance,” he said. “It’s difficult to imagine that things could be any worse for him, or indeed how he can succeed in turning the public around.

    “He is becoming Labour’s IDS and if it carries on like this it’s hard not to think that we’ll be seeing Conservative polling leads very soon.”"
    Ed Miliband should send Paul Dacre a tenner in the post. The Mail's attack on his dad turned out to be an early Christmas present, allowing Ed to delight his core vote, by assaulting the hated Daily Heil.

    That and the energy wheeze have entirely reversed the narrative - I am starting to wonder how the Tories wrench it back.

    *Stares into middle distance* *Contemplates Prime Minister Miliband and Chancellor Balls*

    *gently weeps*
    The Mail thing made Ed look fresh, honourable and interesting. Perhaps that was Paul Dacre's intention - after all, he despises Cameron.
  • AlanbrookeAlanbrooke Posts: 25,514
    PB goes off on one over a poll. There'll be others and they'll all change. HP still looking the most likely atm with Cleggy in the driving seat.
  • BobajobBobajob Posts: 1,536

    Bobajob said:

    SeanT said:

    tim said:

    The gender gap is stunning, and the leader ratings continue to improve for Miliband - it's firming up the 2010 LDs and has been since Syria.

    Oh, and it's a good time to remember the PB Tory motto

    The PB Tories are always wrong
    The PB Tories never learn

    It's nothing to do with Syria, who remembers that? There wasn't even military action, in the end.

    It's everything to do with Miliband's stunt on energy (and his attack on the Mail). This simultaneously made him seem appealing and in touch to impoverished floaters, and shored up his core - hence his soaring ratings with Labour voters ever since.

    I remember a lefty friend of mine saying, when Miliband did it, "I like this energy price thing" - it was a sincerely positive remark from someone normally very cynical. That's when I started to wonder.

    As I said on the prior thread, it's a gimmick, but a brilliant gimmick - it must have been focus grouped beforehand. Miliband totally outflanked the Tories; hats off.

    The Tories are now in big trouble. Cam and Oz need to make this recovery feel better to the average voter, and they need to do it soon.
    Do you know who came up with the energy price sucker-punch? It would interesting to know the story behind it. Whoever it was deserves a big pay rise. A masterstroke that completely wrongfooted the govt.
    Aren't you even a teensy-weensy bit worried what'll happen if Miliband and the Labour team have to implement it?
    No. If the Big Six can't take a 20-month freeze there are plenty who will. The idea that we'll have no entrants to the market and blackouts is risible. Happy to make a bet.
  • The risk of a Labour government should send mortgage holders everywhere rushing to refinance now. One can only print money for so long.

    You can get 3.89% fixed for 10 years from Yorkshire Bank.
  • BobajobBobajob Posts: 1,536
    surbiton said:

    Bobajob said:

    tim said:

    The gender gap is stunning, and the leader ratings continue to improve for Miliband - it's firming up the 2010 LDs and has been since Syria.

    Oh, and it's a good time to remember the PB Tory motto

    The PB Tories are always wrong
    The PB Tories never learn

    Smash families with Child Taxes and cuts to HR vouchers and SureStart and do f-- all for 3.5 years to help with the highest childcare costs in Europe and you might find you aren't the most popular boy at the disco

    But surely, kids are looked after by their nannies !!
    True. And the govt has given nanny employers a tax break, my apologies.
  • AlanbrookeAlanbrooke Posts: 25,514
    Bobajob said:

    Bobajob said:

    SeanT said:

    tim said:

    The gender gap is stunning, and the leader ratings continue to improve for Miliband - it's firming up the 2010 LDs and has been since Syria.

    Oh, and it's a good time to remember the PB Tory motto

    The PB Tories are always wrong
    The PB Tories never learn

    It's nothing to do with Syria, who remembers that? There wasn't even military action, in the end.

    It's everything to do with Miliband's stunt on energy (and his attack on the Mail). This simultaneously made him seem appealing and in touch to impoverished floaters, and shored up his core - hence his soaring ratings with Labour voters ever since.

    I remember a lefty friend of mine saying, when Miliband did it, "I like this energy price thing" - it was a sincerely positive remark from someone normally very cynical. That's when I started to wonder.

    As I said on the prior thread, it's a gimmick, but a brilliant gimmick - it must have been focus grouped beforehand. Miliband totally outflanked the Tories; hats off.

    The Tories are now in big trouble. Cam and Oz need to make this recovery feel better to the average voter, and they need to do it soon.
    Do you know who came up with the energy price sucker-punch? It would interesting to know the story behind it. Whoever it was deserves a big pay rise. A masterstroke that completely wrongfooted the govt.
    Aren't you even a teensy-weensy bit worried what'll happen if Miliband and the Labour team have to implement it?
    No. If the Big Six can't take a 20-month freeze there are plenty who will. The idea that we'll have no entrants to the market and blackouts is risible. Happy to make a bet.
    so if the market's such a profitable wheeze where are all today's new entrants ? Why isn't BaJ Enterprises out there rolling in gold to pay it's monstrous marginal tax bill ?
  • BobajobBobajob Posts: 1,536
    fitalass said:

    The situation for Hollande really does put the current political position of the UK Government into perspective, and Ed Miliband praised the Holland victory and the direction he planned to take France. Now that is what a really unpopular President and Government making very unpopular decisions looks like, I am still not sure that Hollande will survive his Presidential term in Office.

    SeanT said:

    Meanwhile, across La Manche, in a curious synchronicity, Hollande has just recorded the lowest popularity ratings for "any French head of state".

    http://www.lefigaro.fr/flash-actu/2013/11/11/97001-20131111FILWWW00301-nouveau-record-d-impopularite-pour-hollande.php

    As I am now, so ye shall be? Prepare yourself to follow me....

    The Centre Right in France is in even worse a state - and Hollande would win a runoff against the FN nazis at a canter
  • PulpstarPulpstar Posts: 78,411
    edited November 2013

    @SouthamObserver To have any chance the blues have to see the kippers and 2010 LD return.

    I seem to remember you saying your worst result (punting wise) is a Labour majority - that still the case ?
  • dr_spyndr_spyn Posts: 11,300
    edited November 2013
    Hollande dans la merde ...

    http://www.ft.com/cms/s/0/7ea566da-4ad4-11e3-8c4c-00144feabdc0.html#axzz2kMgRhTZL

    More protests today during Armistice Day wreath laying. Hollande copies McCluskey by planing extreme right wingers. Looks as if the eco-tax is not wining hearts or minds.
  • AlanbrookeAlanbrooke Posts: 25,514
    SeanT said:

    PB goes off on one over a poll. There'll be others and they'll all change. HP still looking the most likely atm with Cleggy in the driving seat.

    It's not one poll - it is a series of polls showing a significant widening in the Labour lead, and a fall in Tory support - now confirmed by the Gold Standard.

    And there is just 18 months to go til the GE. This is getting serious.
    Yeah the polls have moved from the summer in Labour's favour , but they'll move again they could make Ed even better off or he could see his ratings collapse. Either way, tonight's poll won't be the GE result. It's been looking like an HP to me for about a year, there still isn't anything since the summer that has changed my opinion.


  • MarkSeniorMarkSenior Posts: 4,699
    fitalass said:

    The situation for Hollande really does put the current political position of the UK Government into perspective, and Ed Miliband praised the Holland victory and the direction he planned to take France. Now that is what a really unpopular President and Government making very unpopular decisions looks like, I am still not sure that Hollande will survive his Presidential term in Office.

    SeanT said:

    Meanwhile, across La Manche, in a curious synchronicity, Hollande has just recorded the lowest popularity ratings for "any French head of state".

    http://www.lefigaro.fr/flash-actu/2013/11/11/97001-20131111FILWWW00301-nouveau-record-d-impopularite-pour-hollande.php

    As I am now, so ye shall be? Prepare yourself to follow me....

    Hollande's ratings are on a par with Thatcher in 1990 Major from 1993 to 1995 and Brown in mid 2008
  • BobajobBobajob Posts: 1,536
    Pe may not
    SeanT said:

    Bobajob said:

    fitalass said:

    The situation for Hollande really does put the current political position of the UK Government into perspective, and Ed Miliband praised the Holland victory and the direction he planned to take France. Now that is what a really unpopular President and Government making very unpopular decisions looks like, I am still not sure that Hollande will survive his Presidential term in Office.

    SeanT said:

    Meanwhile, across La Manche, in a curious synchronicity, Hollande has just recorded the lowest popularity ratings for "any French head of state".

    http://www.lefigaro.fr/flash-actu/2013/11/11/97001-20131111FILWWW00301-nouveau-record-d-impopularite-pour-hollande.php

    As I am now, so ye shall be? Prepare yourself to follow me....

    The Centre Right in France is in even worse a state - and Hollande would win a runoff against the FN nazis at a canter
    The FN is not going to be in a run off with Hollande. The right will find a papabile candidate and Hollande will be thumped.

    perhaps Sean - but Hollande may not stand again. I suspect the PS will choose a right wing candidate next time.
  • If ICM polling history is anything to go by this puts Labour on 33-34% in May 2015.

    They are almost always good for a loss of at least 4 points.
  • AlanbrookeAlanbrooke Posts: 25,514
    tim said:

    PB goes off on one over a poll. There'll be others and they'll all change. HP still looking the most likely atm with Cleggy in the driving seat.

    The leader ratings shifted dramatically in October
    Ed's still crap, no matter what you think. The man has no policies, no clue what to do if in power and is out of his depth. He's a marzipan dildo to quote Malcom Tucker.

    Politics in the last 2 years has been about positioning around sound bites there's no money about so what else can they do ? The only thing of import to date is the Indyref and that's just pure dire as a campaign. None of it from PMQs to Hackgate to Falkirk has changed a darned thing and voters don't care that much. The politicos are pretending they're facing up to the crisis but in reality they're just drifting along with the flotsam and jetsam while claiming it's the direction they always said they wanted to go in.
  • UKIP response to the bitter ramblings of the hapless John Major:

    UKIP deputy leader Paul Nuttall said: "The abolition of selective education in Britain has been a hammer blow to the prospects of working class kids. Until we see a grammar school back in every town and city across the UK, Britain's shocking lack of social mobility will go on."
  • SeanT said:

    PB goes off on one over a poll. There'll be others and they'll all change. HP still looking the most likely atm with Cleggy in the driving seat.

    It's not one poll - it is a series of polls showing a significant widening in the Labour lead, and a fall in Tory support - now confirmed by the Gold Standard.

    And there is just 18 months to go til the GE. This is getting serious.
    Yeah the polls have moved from the summer in Labour's favour , but they'll move again they could make Ed even better off or he could see his ratings collapse. Either way, tonight's poll won't be the GE result. It's been looking like an HP to me for about a year, there still isn't anything since the summer that has changed my opinion.


    There's been one thing happened since the summer that's made me revise my opinion of the likely results, and that's Ed Miliband's performance. He's shown that he's able to find a good theme and more importantly run with it consistently as a campaign. Until this autumn, he had betrayed no hint of this.

    Ed Miliband has, however, shown consistently that he is willing to learn from his mistakes. This is his most significant lesson so far.
  • CyclefreeCyclefree Posts: 25,326
    tim said:

    Cameron lost a much bigger lead over the last 18 months of the last Parliament, so anything can happen. But that Labour vote has now been on or above 35% every month for over three years. And Ed's leadership credentials are now firming up among Labour supporters. The Tories need something to happen or the economic recovery to start feeding through. Even then, they may just find that the anti-Tory vote will be big enough to win Labour most seats. It's all very interesting, that's for sure.

    That more style than substance finding is horrible for Cameron. What's the gender breakdown on that?


    Hes a fake, and women have sussed him
    I would say rather that he comes across as the sort of man who, while perfectly well-mannered, is fundamentally condescending to women. That's certainly what I don't like about him - I find all - certainly most of them with very few exceptions - politicians essentially fake.

    It's not the fakery - it's the condescension coupled with my assessment that, while well educated, he is not particularly intelligent or, probably, that he is in the wrong job for the sort of intelligence he has.

    But regardless of his qualities, the Tories are in trouble if the polls continue like this and they don't turn them around reasonably soon. Labour will be in trouble when they get into power and actually have to implement some policies - well, my reckoning is we'll all be in trouble, especially if we work, have savings or assets and are not in some favoured interest group, but 'twas ever thus.
  • AlanbrookeAlanbrooke Posts: 25,514
    Bobajob said:

    Pe may not

    SeanT said:

    Bobajob said:

    fitalass said:

    The situation for Hollande really does put the current political position of the UK Government into perspective, and Ed Miliband praised the Holland victory and the direction he planned to take France. Now that is what a really unpopular President and Government making very unpopular decisions looks like, I am still not sure that Hollande will survive his Presidential term in Office.

    SeanT said:

    Meanwhile, across La Manche, in a curious synchronicity, Hollande has just recorded the lowest popularity ratings for "any French head of state".

    http://www.lefigaro.fr/flash-actu/2013/11/11/97001-20131111FILWWW00301-nouveau-record-d-impopularite-pour-hollande.php

    As I am now, so ye shall be? Prepare yourself to follow me....

    The Centre Right in France is in even worse a state - and Hollande would win a runoff against the FN nazis at a canter
    The FN is not going to be in a run off with Hollande. The right will find a papabile candidate and Hollande will be thumped.

    perhaps Sean - but Hollande may not stand again. I suspect the PS will choose a right wing candidate next time.
    shows how little you understand the french PS. The french "right" would be the labour party in the UK.
  • BobajobBobajob Posts: 1,536

    Bobajob said:

    Pe may not

    SeanT said:

    Bobajob said:

    fitalass said:

    The situation for Hollande really does put the current political position of the UK Government into perspective, and Ed Miliband praised the Holland victory and the direction he planned to take France. Now that is what a really unpopular President and Government making very unpopular decisions looks like, I am still not sure that Hollande will survive his Presidential term in Office.

    SeanT said:

    Meanwhile, across La Manche, in a curious synchronicity, Hollande has just recorded the lowest popularity ratings for "any French head of state".

    http://www.lefigaro.fr/flash-actu/2013/11/11/97001-20131111FILWWW00301-nouveau-record-d-impopularite-pour-hollande.php

    As I am now, so ye shall be? Prepare yourself to follow me....

    The Centre Right in France is in even worse a state - and Hollande would win a runoff against the FN nazis at a canter
    The FN is not going to be in a run off with Hollande. The right will find a papabile candidate and Hollande will be thumped.

    perhaps Sean - but Hollande may not stand again. I suspect the PS will choose a right wing candidate next time.
    shows how little you understand the french PS. The french "right" would be the labour party in the UK.
    Agreed - I simply meant a candidate on the right of the PS.
  • BobajobBobajob Posts: 1,536
    antifrank said:

    SeanT said:

    PB goes off on one over a poll. There'll be others and they'll all change. HP still looking the most likely atm with Cleggy in the driving seat.

    It's not one poll - it is a series of polls showing a significant widening in the Labour lead, and a fall in Tory support - now confirmed by the Gold Standard.

    And there is just 18 months to go til the GE. This is getting serious.
    Yeah the polls have moved from the summer in Labour's favour , but they'll move again they could make Ed even better off or he could see his ratings collapse. Either way, tonight's poll won't be the GE result. It's been looking like an HP to me for about a year, there still isn't anything since the summer that has changed my opinion.


    There's been one thing happened since the summer that's made me revise my opinion of the likely results, and that's Ed Miliband's performance. He's shown that he's able to find a good theme and more importantly run with it consistently as a campaign. Until this autumn, he had betrayed no hint of this.

    Ed Miliband has, however, shown consistently that he is willing to learn from his mistakes. This is his most significant lesson so far.
    Out of interest AF what is your GE forecast? Not necessarily your betting position but your forecast as we stand here at this moment
  • Pulpstar said:
    Cheers.

    I'm seeing Depeche Mode on Friday night.

  • AlanbrookeAlanbrooke Posts: 25,514
    SeanT said:

    tim said:

    PB goes off on one over a poll. There'll be others and they'll all change. HP still looking the most likely atm with Cleggy in the driving seat.

    The leader ratings shifted dramatically in October
    Ed's still crap, no matter what you think. The man has no policies, no clue what to do if in power and is out of his depth. He's a marzipan dildo to quote Malcom Tucker.

    Politics in the last 2 years has been about positioning around sound bites there's no money about so what else can they do ? The only thing of import to date is the Indyref and that's just pure dire as a campaign. None of it from PMQs to Hackgate to Falkirk has changed a darned thing and voters don't care that much. The politicos are pretending they're facing up to the crisis but in reality they're just drifting along with the flotsam and jetsam while claiming it's the direction they always said they wanted to go in.
    Hate to break it to you, but Ed is no longer crap. He is guileful and cunning, and, it seems, is better at raw politics than Cameron or Osborne.

    He'll be a deeply mediocre PM, but that's a different matter.
    A turd can't be polished it can only be rolled in glitter and that's where we are.

    look at the fundamentals. Is he good because he has the policies to get us out of the mire ? A set of fresh and radical ideas ? Deep insights none of the other politicos have ? fraid not he's as much a product of PPE land as Cameron, and he'll propose the same answers because that's his background and worse there's no money !

    You mean he's "good" in the way that Rochdale are above Morecambe in Division 2. But it's still Division 2, it's not actually good. In simple terms what we have is a bit of theatre with the a poor crop of leaders pretending they're doing momentous things when they're doing anything but. Politics as ever is acting for ugly people.

  • NextNext Posts: 826
    This poll is good for Labour.

    Bad for the Tories.

    And terrible for the country.

    *sighs*
  • fitalassfitalass Posts: 4,320
    Alan, what GE result do you see as being the best for the future health of the country and its economy in 2015?

    SeanT said:

    tim said:

    PB goes off on one over a poll. There'll be others and they'll all change. HP still looking the most likely atm with Cleggy in the driving seat.

    The leader ratings shifted dramatically in October
    Ed's still crap, no matter what you think. The man has no policies, no clue what to do if in power and is out of his depth. He's a marzipan dildo to quote Malcom Tucker.

    Politics in the last 2 years has been about positioning around sound bites there's no money about so what else can they do ? The only thing of import to date is the Indyref and that's just pure dire as a campaign. None of it from PMQs to Hackgate to Falkirk has changed a darned thing and voters don't care that much. The politicos are pretending they're facing up to the crisis but in reality they're just drifting along with the flotsam and jetsam while claiming it's the direction they always said they wanted to go in.
    Hate to break it to you, but Ed is no longer crap. He is guileful and cunning, and, it seems, is better at raw politics than Cameron or Osborne.

    He'll be a deeply mediocre PM, but that's a different matter.
    A turd can't be polished it can only be rolled in glitter and that's where we are.

    look at the fundamentals. Is he good because he has the policies to get us out of the mire ? A set of fresh and radical ideas ? Deep insights none of the other politicos have ? fraid not he's as much a product of PPE land as Cameron, and he'll propose the same answers because that's his background and worse there's no money !

    You mean he's "good" in the way that Rochdale are above Morecambe in Division 2. But it's still Division 2, it's not actually good. In simple terms what we have is a bit of theatre with the a poor crop of leaders pretending they're doing momentous things when they're doing anything but. Politics as ever is acting for ugly people.

  • Scrapheap_as_wasScrapheap_as_was Posts: 10,069
    edited November 2013
  • IOSIOS Posts: 1,450
    edited November 2013
    One thing that I think people underestimate is the difference in personalities between Cameron and Miliband. Cameron is a relaxed guy who just isn't anything like as political as Miliband. Cameron enjoys the fame, the status and ended up in politics because well why the hell not?

    Ed Miliband is a pure calculating politico that clearly has obsessed about politics all his life. While this may give Cameron an advantage in the acting normal stakes (lets be honest neither of them are normal normal) It means he can be lazy and make stupid mistakes. Miliband however really thinks things through. Might make him appear a little unearthly at times but it means when it comes to the long term political battles - press reform for example - he bests Cameron regularly.

    At the end of the day Ed Miliband just wants it way more that Cameron. He works harder and thinks things through more. This is the reason why he will be our next PM
  • Considering his family, genetic disposition and being a total twunt I foresee Militwunt being in trouble soon....

    http://www.militaryphotos.net/forums/showthread.php?232255-Warsaw-Poles-are-attacking-russian-embassy

    Event, dear boy; events....
  • AlanbrookeAlanbrooke Posts: 25,514
    fitalass said:

    Alan, what GE result do you see as being the best for the future health of the country and its economy in 2015?

    SeanT said:

    tim said:

    PB goes off on one over a poll. There'll be others and they'll all change. HP still looking the most likely atm with Cleggy in the driving seat.

    The leader ratings shifted dramatically in October
    Ed's still crap, no matter what you think. The man has no policies, no clue what to do if in power and is out of his depth. He's a marzipan dildo to quote Malcom Tucker.


    Hate to break it to you, but Ed is no longer crap. He is guileful and cunning, and, it seems, is better at raw politics than Cameron or Osborne.

    He'll be a deeply mediocre PM, but that's a different matter.
    A turd can't be polished it can only be rolled in glitter and that's where we are.

    look at the fundamentals. Is he good because he has the policies to get us out of the mire ? A set of fresh and radical ideas ? Deep insights none of the other politicos have ? fraid not he's as much a product of PPE land as Cameron, and he'll propose the same answers because that's his background and worse there's no money !

    You mean he's "good" in the way that Rochdale are above Morecambe in Division 2. But it's still Division 2, it's not actually good. In simple terms what we have is a bit of theatre with the a poor crop of leaders pretending they're doing momentous things when they're doing anything but. Politics as ever is acting for ugly people.

    Personally I think all the parties are out of ideas at the moment. They're all hoping things will pick up and they can get back to business as usual or that the other side will inflict all the pain and they can keep their hands clean. But at the moment I can't see that happening, the problems we have are fairly big and economic Micawberism isn't going to come to the rescue.


  • AlanbrookeAlanbrooke Posts: 25,514
    IOS said:

    One thing that I think people underestimate is the difference in personalities between Cameron and Miliband. Cameron is a relaxed guy who just isn't anything like as political as Miliband. Cameron enjoys the fame, the status and ended up in politics because well why the hell not?

    Ed Miliband is a pure calculating politico that clearly has obsessed about politics all his life. While this may give Cameron an advantage in the acting normal stakes (lets be honest neither of them are normal normal) It means he can be lazy and make stupid mistakes. Miliband however really thinks things through. Might make him appear a little unearthly at times but it means when it comes to the long term political battles - press reform for example - he bests Cameron regularly.

    At the end of the day Ed Miliband just wants it way more that Cameron. He works harder and thinks things through more. This is the reason why he will be our next PM

    "Miliband however really thinks things through"

    I'm nominating that for fkwit statement of 2013.


  • Ishmael_XIshmael_X Posts: 3,664

    IOS said:

    One thing that I think people underestimate is the difference in personalities between Cameron and Miliband. Cameron is a relaxed guy who just isn't anything like as political as Miliband. Cameron enjoys the fame, the status and ended up in politics because well why the hell not?

    Ed Miliband is a pure calculating politico that clearly has obsessed about politics all his life. While this may give Cameron an advantage in the acting normal stakes (lets be honest neither of them are normal normal) It means he can be lazy and make stupid mistakes. Miliband however really thinks things through. Might make him appear a little unearthly at times but it means when it comes to the long term political battles - press reform for example - he bests Cameron regularly.

    At the end of the day Ed Miliband just wants it way more that Cameron. He works harder and thinks things through more. This is the reason why he will be our next PM

    "Miliband however really thinks things through"

    I'm nominating that for fkwit statement of 2013.


    Possibly, but it is dead right that the difference between Cameron and Miliband is hunger. Cameron looks increasingly as if he wants to spend more time with his dvds, having proved to his own satisfaction that he has been "rather good" at being pm.

  • AlanbrookeAlanbrooke Posts: 25,514
    Ishmael_X said:

    IOS said:

    One thing that I think people underestimate is the difference in personalities between Cameron and Miliband. Cameron is a relaxed guy who just isn't anything like as political as Miliband. Cameron enjoys the fame, the status and ended up in politics because well why the hell not?

    Ed Miliband is a pure calculating politico that clearly has obsessed about politics all his life. While this may give Cameron an advantage in the acting normal stakes (lets be honest neither of them are normal normal) It means he can be lazy and make stupid mistakes. Miliband however really thinks things through. Might make him appear a little unearthly at times but it means when it comes to the long term political battles - press reform for example - he bests Cameron regularly.

    At the end of the day Ed Miliband just wants it way more that Cameron. He works harder and thinks things through more. This is the reason why he will be our next PM

    "Miliband however really thinks things through"

    I'm nominating that for fkwit statement of 2013.


    Possibly, but it is dead right that the difference between Cameron and Miliband is hunger. Cameron looks increasingly as if he wants to spend more time with his dvds, having proved to his own satisfaction that he has been "rather good" at being pm.

    I'd agree that Cameron's not really that much better than Miliband, but Miliband wants to interfere in things whereas Cameron doesn't, and when Miliband interferes he'll make things a lot worse than before he started.
  • surbitonsurbiton Posts: 13,549

    http://www.populus.co.uk/wp-content/uploads/2013/11/Online_VI_11-11-2013_BPC.pdf

    Populus poll out: LAB 39, CON 31, LD 11, UKIP 10, SNP 3

    Virtually identical to ICM. Of course, it is affected by Falkirk, otherwise Labour would have been above 50% !
  • PulpstarPulpstar Posts: 78,411
    Miliband is a cold calculating politico - I've said it all along, the man is ruthless. But he won't be that good a PM. One term Labour minority administration is still my call !
  • SchardsSchards Posts: 210
    Very amusing to see the same people who criticise tory supporters for commenting approvingly on good tory polls going into multi posting rapture over a good mid term Labour poll.

    "Don't let Labour mess it up again" will be the issue come May 2015, that's been clear for months, it's still clear, it will still resonate and it will still resonate given a 10% + Labour poll lead 3 months from the election, let alone 18 months.

    It would be nice to think, in view of the reaction to this poll, that the tories will be free to crow with impunity the next time they have a decent poll (it won't be long), I suspect I will be disappointed.
  • fitalassfitalass Posts: 4,320
    You don't get it do you? Falkirk/Unite/Labour scandal is going to be a slow burner between now and the GE unless Ed Miliband comes clean, stands up to Unite and publishes that Labour Inquiry he has tucked away desperately hoping it will gather dust. If you had bothered to follow the details, you would also realise that INEOS is not yet finished with Unite and the way it behaved in the Grangemouth/Deans dispute either. The only people who want to brush this whole scandal under the carpet at the moment are Unite, the Labour party and their supporters, funny that!
    surbiton said:

    http://www.populus.co.uk/wp-content/uploads/2013/11/Online_VI_11-11-2013_BPC.pdf

    Populus poll out: LAB 39, CON 31, LD 11, UKIP 10, SNP 3

    Virtually identical to ICM. Of course, it is affected by Falkirk, otherwise Labour would have been above 50% !
  • isamisam Posts: 41,118

    Great.

    Tories and Spurs failing to score against inferior opposition.

    Arsenal also guilty
  • Scrapheap_as_wasScrapheap_as_was Posts: 10,069
    edited November 2013
    Who will bet me that next months same monthly Guardian ICM shows a Lab lead of only 5% or less? I say it will be. Who says it won't?

    Did you see Spurs Premier goal of the month competition was the one goal....all the others being pens or a cross.
  • Mick_PorkMick_Pork Posts: 6,530
    It's vastly amusing how many tories still don't realise just why they are where they are.

    http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/File:UK_opinion_polling_2010-2015.png

    There it is with crystal clarity.
    Not one poll but the average of all of them and not one snapshot in time but a glaringly obvious trend that has slowed stopped and is now beginning to creep back up since May.

    Since we can all but rule out Cammie being ruthless with his chums (replacing the toxic Osbrowne with May for example) that leaves them with praying that either little Ed gets in trouble again or Farage has a Kilroy-Silk like complete implosion.

    Clegg will always be toxic so the lib dems are in for a world of pain if they are suicidal enough to leave him as leader for 2015. The less lib dem MPs there are the less chance there is of a hung parliament.
  • Gove vs the Hon Hunt:

    Tristram Hunt:
    The Secretary of State is not aware of his own GCSE reforms. He has introduced the soft bigotry of low expectations into our education system. He might have enjoyed studying the works of Jane Austen and Wilfred Owen, but he is denying England’s pupils the same access to our national canon if they take only the English language GCSE. If it was all right for him, at Robert Gordon’s college, why is it not okay for kids in Harlow and Blackpool today? Will he now urgently review the changes to English GCSE, or will he continue to dumb down our syllabus?

    Michael Gove:
    Tragically, when I was a student at Robert Gordon’s college in Aberdeen, I was not able to take English GCSE, because I was in Scotland and GCSEs were not on offer at that time. As a historian, the hon. Gentleman could perhaps do with studying geography rather more.

    Under our new accountability system, which I urge the hon. Gentleman to study and which his colleague, the hon. Member for Cardiff West (Kevin Brennan), welcomed, English will not count unless students study both English language and literature, and the English baccalaureate, which the hon. Member for Stoke-on-Trent Central (Tristram Hunt) supports, will be conferred on students only if they study both English language and literature. He talks about Jane Austen. One of the tragedies about the current English GCSE is that fewer than 1% of students who sit it actually read a word of Jane Austen. Before he asks another question in the House, may I recommend to him one particular text of hers—“Pride and Prejudice”? A knowledge of both things would certainly help him to be a more effective Opposition spokesperson.

    http://www.parliament.uk/business/publications/hansard/commons/todays-commons-debates/read/unknown/9/#c9
  • R0bertsR0berts Posts: 391
    The massive story that is FalkirkGate is really cutting through for the Tories.

    More seriously, can any of the (many) Tories here see a roadmap to victory for their Party?

    Their strategy seems to be
    1) Dog whistle to the Right
    2) Attack Ed Miliband personally during the campaign via the Sun, Mail etc (that went well recently!)
    3) Hope for the best on the economy, particularly a politically engineered boomlet.

    It's just not good enough. If I was a Tory I'd be seriously worried now.

    Lab Maj might not be nailed on, but Tory Maj is certainly, er, nailed off.
  • surbiton said:


    Virtually identical to ICM. Of course, it is affected by Falkirk, otherwise Labour would have been above 50% !

    Not sure the enthusiasm is merited.

    SNP winning in Scotland, Tories winning in the Midlands, Labour piling up masses of votes in the already won North (and among the least likely to actually vote). Tories net gainers from LibLab.

    There are warning signs all over the numbers.
  • Scott_PScott_P Posts: 51,453
    R0berts said:

    Tory Maj is certainly, er, nailed off.

    What odds are you offering?
  • IOSIOS Posts: 1,450
    Alan

    Ed Miliband is a lot smarter than Cameron. He is also way more political. He puts the hours in. Cameron chillaxes his way through being PM. It's the reason why he keeps on getting caught out. If he wasn't so lazy he wouldn't have called a vote on Syria FFS. It's just lazy to not even canvass your own MPs.


  • IOSIOS Posts: 1,450
    The fact that Cameron knows that both Ed Miliband and Ed Balls are smarter than him is one of the reasons why it gets so annoyed at PMQs
  • AlanbrookeAlanbrooke Posts: 25,514
    edited November 2013
    SeanT said:

    Ishmael_X said:

    IOS said:

    One thing that I think people underestimate is the difference in personalities between Cameron and Miliband. Cameron is a relaxed guy who just isn't anything like as political as Miliband. Cameron enjoys the fame, the status and ended up in politics because well why the hell not?

    Ed Miliband is a pure calculating politico that clearly has obsessed about politics all his life. While this may give Cameron an advantage in the acting normal stakes (lets be honest neither of them are normal normal) It means he can be lazy and make stupid mistakes. Miliband however really thinks things through. Might make him appear a little unearthly at times but it means when it comes to the long term political battles - press reform for example - he bests Cameron regularly.

    At the end of the day Ed Miliband just wants it way more that Cameron. He works harder and thinks things through more. This is the reason why he will be our next PM

    "Miliband however really thinks things through"

    I'm nominating that for fkwit statement of 2013.


    Possibly, but it is dead right that the difference between Cameron and Miliband is hunger. Cameron looks increasingly as if he wants to spend more time with his dvds, having proved to his own satisfaction that he has been "rather good" at being pm.

    I'd agree that Cameron's not really that much better than Miliband, but Miliband wants to interfere in things whereas Cameron doesn't, and when Miliband interferes he'll make things a lot worse than before he started.
    As has oft been stated, Ed is like Harold Wilson: he is all about the politics, and he is rather good at politicking. He is indeed *hungrier* than Cameron.

    But as PM he will preside over national decline because he hasn't got a single interesting thought other than warmed over crypto-Marxism, and associated claptrap.
    Yup, and that really comes back to what is a good politician ? Someone who's good for the country or someone who's good at politics ? Blair - good at politics but a distastrous PM, history won't give him a good write-up.

  • R0bertsR0berts Posts: 391
    Scott_P said:

    R0berts said:

    Tory Maj is certainly, er, nailed off.

    What odds are you offering?
    How's about a Big Society bet?

    Tory majority I pay up to the charity of your choice, other result you pay up to a charity of my choice. Straight evens, say £20?
  • Scott_PScott_P Posts: 51,453
    R0berts said:


    How's about a Big Society bet?

    Tory majority I pay up to the charity of your choice, other result you pay up to a charity of my choice. Straight evens, say £20?

    I am all for a charity bet, but surely for "Tory Maj is certainly, er, nailed off" I get better than evens. Or are you not really that confident?
  • Interesting to compare the leadership ratings with what our Charles wrote about Cameron:

    " On Cameron personally:

    - he needs to get out there much more and get the fundamental message across. Sometimes he is asleep at the switch
    - He would do better to have a broader range of voices and opinions to listen to. As my Mum said after sitting next to him a dinner a few months ago "that man doesn't know how to listen"
    - It's fine (and healthy) not to have an obsessive PM. But Cameron takes his duties to lightly. His approach is the classic "essay crisis" mode. Most of us grow out of it when we get a job.
    - He is too concerned about what his immediate group of friends things - he should govern for the country not West London "
  • R0bertsR0berts Posts: 391
    Scott_P said:

    R0berts said:


    How's about a Big Society bet?

    Tory majority I pay up to the charity of your choice, other result you pay up to a charity of my choice. Straight evens, say £20?

    I am all for a charity bet, but surely for "Tory Maj is certainly, er, nailed off" I get better than evens. Or are you not really that confident?
    Oh come on! A charity bet's got to be straight evens surely?

    Perhaps you don't feel confident in a Tory majority? It's only 20 quid, go on Scott.
  • AlanbrookeAlanbrooke Posts: 25,514
    edited November 2013
    IOS said:

    Alan

    Ed Miliband is a lot smarter than Cameron. He is also way more political. He puts the hours in. Cameron chillaxes his way through being PM. It's the reason why he keeps on getting caught out. If he wasn't so lazy he wouldn't have called a vote on Syria FFS. It's just lazy to not even canvass your own MPs.


    Ed Miliband is a lot smarter than Cameron

    Jesus wept.

    WTF are you going to do post his O level certificates ? You still just can't accept that neither of them is any great shakes and neither of them is setting up an agenda that is addressing this country's problems.

    Intelligence has little to do with it - the crisis was created by people with Oxbridge degrees and Harvard MBAs. If we had put the country in the hands of white van men with a CSE in woodwork we'd be in better shape.

    You seem to think that saying Ed's a hyperactive twat to Dave's lazy twat is a virtue, It's not he's still fundamentally a twat.
  • Scott_PScott_P Posts: 51,453
    @GuidoFawkes: Bill and Ed's Excellent Adventure: http://t.co/pkG9FDyseV
  • fitalassfitalass Posts: 4,320
    edited November 2013
    If Ed Miliband was so smart, how on earth did he manage to get himself into such a bind over the Falkirk scandal? He is now stuck trying to hide a Labour Inquiry that would make him look a complete idiot in light of the way he caved into Len McCluskey and Unite over Stevie Deans and Kari Murphy in the run up to the TUC and Labour party Conferences.
    IOS said:

    The fact that Cameron knows that both Ed Miliband and Ed Balls are smarter than him is one of the reasons why it gets so annoyed at PMQs

  • Scott_PScott_P Posts: 51,453
    R0berts said:


    Oh come on! A charity bet's got to be straight evens surely?

    Perhaps you don't feel confident in a Tory majority?

    Er, you were the one who said it was "nailed off", but apparently that was just blowhard nonsense.

    Fair enough.
  • AndyJSAndyJS Posts: 29,395
    Leyla Hussein's e-petition has now reached 70,000 signatures:

    http://epetitions.direct.gov.uk/petitions/52740
  • R0bertsR0berts Posts: 391
    Scott_P said:

    R0berts said:


    Oh come on! A charity bet's got to be straight evens surely?

    Perhaps you don't feel confident in a Tory majority?

    Er, you were the one who said it was "nailed off", but apparently that was just blowhard nonsense.

    Fair enough.
    So you won't even take a charity bet on a Tory majority?

    Fair enough. Keep posting those Guido links and Tory tweets pal, they really enhance the PB reader experience.
  • IOS said:

    The fact that Cameron knows that both Ed Miliband and Ed Balls are smarter than him is one of the reasons why it gets so annoyed at PMQs

    Ed Balls? That would be "Gordon Brown's no1 acolyte, Ed Balls" ? Or another one?
    Ed Balls has exactly enough intelligence to delude himself that he knows everything, and not a grain more.

  • R0bertsR0berts Posts: 391
    fitalass said:

    If Ed Miliband was so smart, how on earth did he manage to get himself into such a bind over the Falkirk scandal? He is now stuck trying to hide a Labour Inquiry that would make him look a complete idiot in light of the way he caved into Len McCluskey and Unite over Stevie Deans and Kari Murphy in the run up to the TUC and Labour party Conferences.

    IOS said:

    The fact that Cameron knows that both Ed Miliband and Ed Balls are smarter than him is one of the reasons why it gets so annoyed at PMQs

    Have you got hotkey shortcuts on your keyboard for the words "Falkirk", "Miliband", "Unite", McCluskey"? Yawn.
  • Scott_PScott_P Posts: 51,453
    R0berts said:


    So you won't even take a charity bet on a Tory majority?

    Nailed off = 50/50 chance...

    Learn something new every day
  • MrJonesMrJones Posts: 3,523
    R0berts said:

    The massive story that is FalkirkGate is really cutting through for the Tories.

    More seriously, can any of the (many) Tories here see a roadmap to victory for their Party?

    ...

    Have a big, televised inquiry / show trial into how scores of councils around the country covered up thousands of children being raped, tortured and forced into prostitution by the grooming gangs. Make it about the coverup rather than the crime and it should nab 100s of Labour councillors, a few dozen Labour MPs and at least one ex-minister all saying they didn't know anything about it until it appeared in the Times only to be proved liars by leaks and witnesses.

    If it's televised, lasts long long enough and shown during the day so all the pensioners watch it that would knock at least 20% off the Labour vote permanently. About 1/2 of that wouldn't vote again, of the half that would about half would go LD, 1/3 Ukip and 1/6 Tory.

    Of course as a televised show trial like that would trash labour for 20 years or so they'd do and say anything to stop it happening and i doubt the Cameroons would have the bottle for the ****storm.
  • HYUFDHYUFD Posts: 123,916
    •Hillary Clinton (D) 43%
    •Chris Christie (R) 41%
    •Some other candidate 9%
    •Undecided 8%

    Among Independents
    •Chris Christie (R) 42%
    •Hillary Clinton (D) 33%
  • R0bertsR0berts Posts: 391
    Scott_P said:

    R0berts said:


    So you won't even take a charity bet on a Tory majority?

    Nailed off = 50/50 chance...

    Learn something new every day
    I was offering a CHARITY bet you big massive tweetspamming goon!
  • fitalassfitalass Posts: 4,320
    Guido Fawkes - Bill and Ed’s Excellent Adventure
    "Poor Hollande. Whatever happened to that guy…"
  • SchardsSchards Posts: 210
    R0berts said:

    The massive story that is FalkirkGate is really cutting through for the Tories.

    More seriously, can any of the (many) Tories here see a roadmap to victory for their Party?

    Yes

    "Don't let Labour mess it up again"

    Simple really

    And effective at election time, less so mid term. I think I can live with that.
  • AlanbrookeAlanbrooke Posts: 25,514
    R0berts said:

    Scott_P said:

    R0berts said:


    So you won't even take a charity bet on a Tory majority?

    Nailed off = 50/50 chance...

    Learn something new every day
    I was offering a CHARITY bet you big massive tweetspamming goon!
    so if you're offering a charity bet why's it wrong for another poster to seek more money for charity ?

    or are you just tight fisted ?
  • Scott_PScott_P Posts: 51,453
    R0berts said:


    I was offering a CHARITY bet you big massive tweetspamming goon!

    And I asked what odds you placed on "Nailed off". And the answer was evens.

    I think the word is "unspoofable"
  • foxinsoxukfoxinsoxuk Posts: 23,548
    Its Browns plotting vs Blair's sofa govt again. Both are bad but one is worse.

    Hardworking politicians are often the worst sort because often the best govt is the one that does least.
    IOS said:

    Alan

    Ed Miliband is a lot smarter than Cameron. He is also way more political. He puts the hours in. Cameron chillaxes his way through being PM. It's the reason why he keeps on getting caught out. If he wasn't so lazy he wouldn't have called a vote on Syria FFS. It's just lazy to not even canvass your own MPs.


  • R0bertsR0berts Posts: 391
    Schards said:

    R0berts said:

    The massive story that is FalkirkGate is really cutting through for the Tories.

    More seriously, can any of the (many) Tories here see a roadmap to victory for their Party?

    Yes

    "Don't let Labour mess it up again"

    Simple really

    And effective at election time, less so mid term. I think I can live with that.
    Who is that going to appeal to? UKIPers possibly, but 2010 Libs and Labs?
  • HYUFDHYUFD Posts: 123,916
    edited November 2013
    New Oz Newspoll shows Abbott's honeymoon has ended and the polling position after Shorten's election as ALP leader is back to the level of September's election

    The Coalition is leading Labor 53-47, down from 56-44 a fortnight ago. The Coalition is down two points on the primary vote to 45%, with Labor up one to 32% and the Greens up two to 12%. Tony Abbott’s personal ratings are still much better than any he enjoyed as Opposition Leader, although he is down two on approval to 45% and up four on disapproval to 38%. Bill Shorten has made a handy five-point gain on approval to 37%, with disapproval steady at 24%. Preferred prime minister changes only slightly, Abbott’s lead of 47-28 a fortnight ago narrowing to 46-30.
  • NextNext Posts: 826
    Schards said:

    R0berts said:

    The massive story that is FalkirkGate is really cutting through for the Tories.

    More seriously, can any of the (many) Tories here see a roadmap to victory for their Party?

    Yes

    "Don't let Labour mess it up again"

    Simple really

    And effective at election time, less so mid term. I think I can live with that.
    No, it's got to be...

    "Don't let Labour Balls it up again".
  • BenMBenM Posts: 1,795
    Great poll.

    Although I'm on record somewhere saying the neck-and-neck ICM in September was an outlier. So we'll see.

    Falkirk. Look PB Tories no one cares.

    Ed must laugh himself silly watching tribal Tories disappear up such an irrelevant cul-de-sac so soon after he scored a massive policy hit as the Great Energy Price Freeze. The wholly inept, raging Tory response has been a wonder to behold. The field is wide open for Ed (he will be a better PM than Cameron ever could).

    Plenty of time to score own goals of course but the Tories are the ones laying off the suicidal back passes right now.
  • R0bertsR0berts Posts: 391
    Scott_P said:

    R0berts said:


    I was offering a CHARITY bet you big massive tweetspamming goon!

    And I asked what odds you placed on "Nailed off". And the answer was evens.

    I think the word is "unspoofable"
    Arrgh!

    OK OK OK I get it. Now go away, I'm sure there must be some interesting tweets out there from Guido and Tory HQ that we've all missed you can copy and paste here.

  • Glad to see Norway getting rid of Inheritance tax but it is worth noting they still have a net wealth tax which is levied on assets exceeding about £100,000.

    One other interesting point about Norway is that I believe the tax on house sales/purchases is paid by the seller as a capital gains tax on the change in value of the property since it was acquired rather than being paid by the purchaser.

    I was just wondering what people think of this and whether it would be a better way of taxing house sales. Would it perhaps help liquidity in the UK housing market if the purchaser was not having to pay out stamp duty on top of sales. I realise the seller may well just add the tax onto the sale price to compensate but if they wanted a quick sale this might not be the case.
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