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  • malcolmgmalcolmg Posts: 43,362
    RobD said:

    kle4 said:

    HYUFD said:

    I don't think this is quite true, Labour is still standing and while Corbyn still backs Brexit most Labour MPs back Remain and EUref2.

    That is a very good letter by Chris Davies warning voters in a pro Brexit area (Powys was 52% Leave and the Brexit Party won it in the European Parliament elections) how Peterborough showed that voting for the Brexit Party could allow a pro Remain candidate through the middle.

    Indeed while in Peterborough it was the the Brexit Party that cost the Tories the seat (or you could argue the other way around) in Brecon it could be Labour that costs the LDs the seat.

    At the 2017 general election the LDs and Plaid combined got 32% in Brecon and Radnor (the Greens did not stand), well behind the Tories 48.6%. Add in Labour's 17.7% to the 32% for the LDs and Plaid and you get to 49.7% ie above the Tories' vote

    You think Brexit is more important than getting rid of crooked politicians?
    Getting rid of crooked politicians is central to the appeal of Brexit.
    I voted Leave, but what would Brexit have ever done to get rid of crooked politicians? I don't remember it being a major part of any arguments.
    The idea (under some possible Brexits) would see European politicians having less direct influence over this country. Many of them are perceived to be crooked on both a personal level and a political level. Much the same applies to UK MEPs (particularly those strongly in favour of Brexit if we assume expenses cases are dealt with impartially).
    Remember that the EU is an institution that for decades could not get its accounts signed off by its own auditor.
    They seem to be doing a bit better at trade deals than Fox and company, Faroes Islands versus South America is a bit of a shocker
  • justin124justin124 Posts: 11,527
    HYUFD said:

    justin124 said:

    HYUFD said:

    JackW said:

    HYUFD said:

    JackW said:

    Given what we all know about government performances in by-elections especially one as spectacularly unpopular as this one and the unusual spectacle of the "conviction" Conservative candidate revisiting the scene of the crime why would the voters of Brecon and Radnor not give the Conservatives a hefty kick in the ballot box?

    A Government so spectacularly unpopular the Tories lead in both the latest Yougov and Mori polls?
    Please advise us how much vote share the Conservatives have lost since the 2017 general election and also their vote share at the local and European election this year.

    Such popularity seems to be at odds with the threat of extinction enunciated by all the Tory leadership contenders.

    Your dancing on a pin head is entertaining but surely in time it must be most uncomfortable for the most loyal of Conservatives?
    The Tory voteshare is well up on the European elections as they gradually win back Brexit Party voters, if Boris is leader in August when the by election will be held on a Leave in October Deal or No Deal ticket that will shore up the Tory vote in Brecon and Radnor yet further
    If it follows the pattern of the Peterborough by election - which saw a 25% drop in the Tory vote share - the Tories will do well to get 30% here. Any Boris bounce is likely to be largely in the poll figures we are currently seeing - and many postal votes will already have been cast.
    It won't, as the Brexit Party is already polling below what it was polling at the time of the Peterborough by election and the Tories are polling above and that is even before the bounce for a new leader
    Not really. Yougov are the only regular pollster we see at present. In the days leading up to the Peterborough election that pollster had the Brexit Party on 25% and 26% as compared with 22% in their most recent poll. Some slippage but not dramatic.
  • nichomarnichomar Posts: 7,483
    malcolmg said:

    HYUFD said:

    HYUFD said:

    I don't think this is quite true, Labour is still standing and while Corbyn still backs Brexit most Labour MPs back Remain and EUref2.

    That is a very good letter by Chris Davies warning voters in a pro Brexit area (Powys was 52% Leave and the Brexit Party won it in the European Parliament elections) how Peterborough showed that voting for the Brexit Party could allow a pro Remain candidate through the middle.

    Indeed while in Peterborough it was the the Brexit Party that cost the Tories the seat (or you could argue the other way around) in Brecon it could be Labour that costs the LDs the seat.

    At the 2017 general election the LDs and Plaid combined got 32% in Brecon and Radnor (the Greens did not stand), well behind the Tories 48.6%. Add in Labour's 17.7% to the 32% for the LDs and Plaid and you get to 49.7% ie above the Tories' vote

    You think Brexit is more important than getting rid of crooked politicians?
    I think Brexit is more important than trying to get rid of hard working local MPs who have faced their punishment for any expenses errors
    They should bring out the Maiden for these chancers. Sooner we are free of these losers the better.
    Will you stop peddling the lie that it was an expenses error. It was deliberate fraud to cover up an overspend on a budget line by forging invoices to pass the expense of on an unrelated code. He was unwilling to dip in his own pocket to cover the ‘mistake’ so he committed a criminal offense and got caught. If his constituents buy this they are welcome to him.
  • JackWJackW Posts: 14,787
    OllyT said:

    HYUFD said:

    OllyT said:

    MrsB said:

    IanB2 said:

    Nice of the Tories to help the LibDems squeeze the Labour vote.

    that was my thought exactly!
    The Labour vote is concentrated in the south, where Brecknockshire begins to turn into the Heads of the Valleys -- places like Ystradgynlais (the second largest town in Powys) and Abercraf.

    These places have much more in common with the constituencies directly to the South -- Cynon Valley, Merthyr Tydfil & Rhymney, Neath. They are cut from the same cloth.

    Good luck to LibDems canvassing there on "Bollocks to Brexit", and hoping for Labour switchers.
    Aren't current Labour voters about 75% remain anyway now? The voters you are talking about are surely more likely to be voting for Farage's outfit by now.

    I suspect that many of the remaining 25% will prioritise the chance to kick out a Tory, particularly as I understand the Greens and Plaid have decided to give the Lib Dems a clear run.

    Labour voters have always shown themselves to be pretty good at tactical voting. The core Labour vote at the by-election is more likely to be Corbynistas than hardline Brexiteers.
    That could be enough for a Tory hold.

    2017 LDs plus Plaid (there was no Green candidate)= 32% in Brecon and Radnor while the Tories got 48.6%.

    2017 LDs plus Plaid plus Labour = 49.7% but even in the European elections Labour got 7.3% in Powys and if they stick with Labour that could be enough for the Tories to scrape home
    You seem to overlooking the rather large fact that the Tory vote is going to split between them and the Brexit Party.
    And some nibbling by UKIP too.
  • ydoethurydoethur Posts: 71,426
    OllyT said:

    HYUFD said:

    OllyT said:

    MrsB said:

    IanB2 said:

    Nice of the Tories to help the LibDems squeeze the Labour vote.

    that was my thought exactly!
    The Labour vote is concentrated in the south, where Brecknockshire begins to turn into the Heads of the Valleys -- places like Ystradgynlais (the second largest town in Powys) and Abercraf.

    These places have much more in common with the constituencies directly to the South -- Cynon Valley, Merthyr Tydfil & Rhymney, Neath. They are cut from the same cloth.

    Good luck to LibDems canvassing there on "Bollocks to Brexit", and hoping for Labour switchers.
    Aren't current Labour voters about 75% remain anyway now? The voters you are talking about are surely more likely to be voting for Farage's outfit by now.

    I suspect that many of the remaining 25% will prioritise the chance to kick out a Tory, particularly as I understand the Greens and Plaid have decided to give the Lib Dems a clear run.

    Labour voters have always shown themselves to be pretty good at tactical voting. The core Labour vote at the by-election is more likely to be Corbynistas than hardline Brexiteers.
    That could be enough for a Tory hold.

    2017 LDs plus Plaid (there was no Green candidate)= 32% in Brecon and Radnor while the Tories got 48.6%.

    2017 LDs plus Plaid plus Labour = 49.7% but even in the European elections Labour got 7.3% in Powys and if they stick with Labour that could be enough for the Tories to scrape home
    You seem to overlooking the rather large fact that the Tory vote is going to split between them and the Brexit Party.
    Have they confirmed they're standing?
  • OllyTOllyT Posts: 5,006

    OllyT said:

    MrsB said:

    IanB2 said:

    Nice of the Tories to help the LibDems squeeze the Labour vote.

    that was my thought exactly!
    The Labour vote is concentrated in the south, where Brecknockshire begins to turn into the Heads of the Valleys -- places like Ystradgynlais (the second largest town in Powys) and Abercraf.

    These places have much more in common with the constituencies directly to the South -- Cynon Valley, Merthyr Tydfil & Rhymney, Neath. They are cut from the same cloth.

    Good luck to LibDems canvassing there on "Bollocks to Brexit", and hoping for Labour switchers.
    Aren't current Labour voters about 75% remain anyway now? The voters you are talking about are surely more likely to be voting for Farage's outfit by now.

    I suspect that many of the remaining 25% will prioritise the chance to kick out a Tory, particularly as I understand the Greens and Plaid have decided to give the Lib Dems a clear run.

    Labour voters have always shown themselves to be pretty good at tactical voting. The core Labour vote at the by-election is more likely to be Corbynistas than hardline Brexiteers.
    The Greens have agreed to stand aside, but I don't think Plaid Cymru have yet agreed.

    The Labour voters in Powys do not live in the pretty spa towns. They are in places much closer in outlook to the Labour voters in the Don Valley.

    A statement like "current Labour voters are 75 per cent remain" may be true nationally, but I doubt if it is true in Ystradgynlais.
    We shall see, I believe enough Labour, Plaid and Green supporters will back the Lib Dems in this by-election to see them home and the Tory vote will fracture between them and the BXP.
  • logical_songlogical_song Posts: 9,914

    Daily Mail comments are easy to mock but this one is a bit special:

    https://twitter.com/supermathskid/status/1144991107291521024?s=21

    You'd have to be hard boiled to want to be under the 'yolk of oppression".
  • malcolmgmalcolmg Posts: 43,362
    ydoethur said:

    malcolmg said:

    HYUFD said:

    felix said:

    The refusal of the BXP to even consider a tactical withdrawal reflects what we saw within the Tory party over the Withdrawal Agreement earlier in the year. A total refusal to compromise which is completely at odds with electoral reality. For remainers this can only be good news. As a lifelong Tory who prefers Remain but would have accepted the Referendum result I find it all very sad. I think that the country would eventually have accepted a modest Brexit. I'm unclear that remain will heal the divisions we now have. My sole consolation is that I don't live in the UK anymore.

    The country want a a Canada style FTA for GB, it just needs a pro Brexit PM who believes in that vision and who can win a majority and deliver it. We all know who that might be!
    I am not sure the country does know what it wants. The evidence, other than that which you are about to produce to prove me wrong, would seem to demonstrate this too.

    By the way, did you see Johnson's model bus interview? For me it was an example of his utter contempt for his audience, namely both his immediate and wider electorate. He was making a monkey out of you and me!
    He really is a nasty piece of work and Hunt is not much better , a bigger pair of smug chancers you will never see.
    Evening Malcolm, trust he turnips are bearing up in this hot weather. We may be needing plenty before too long...
    Good evening Ydoethur, yes all well though weather turned here today , had thunder and lightning and a bit muggy now.
    Hopefully we will get out of this morass as soon as possible. In your wildest dreams you could not make up this sh**fest and these evil nasty Tories. England has gone radio rental.
    I pity anybody that does not have plenty of cash , anyone near breadline just now will be in serious trouble.
  • HYUFDHYUFD Posts: 123,156

    HYUFD said:

    nichomar said:

    HYUFD said:

    justin124 said:

    HYUFD said:

    JackW said:

    I may be somewhat addled with the heat and being marginally past the first flush of youth but I find the path to a Conservative win at the Brecon and Radnor by-election tighter than @TheScreamingEagles trousers at a Bee Gees tribute night :

    1. Government defending seat in mid-term
    2. Conservatives polling around half their general election score
    3. By-election caused by Tory naughty boy behaviour.
    4. Naughty boy re-selected as Tory candidate.
    5. Conservatives fishing in same pool as TBP and UKIP
    6. Clear second place challenger - LibDem
    7. LibDem polling around three times their general election score.
    8. Clear second in Euro elections to TBP. Tories well down
    9. LibDem candidate has reasonable profile as Welsh leader.
    10. LibDem probably only remain candidate in 48% remain area.

    Except Powys voted 52% Leave, only 10 000 voters signed the recall petition and the LDs got 12 000 votes at the last general election in Brecon and Radnor, the Tory candidate clearly got a big personal vote in 2017 and is well known locally while the LD candidate wants to lecture local farmers about not having enough windmills and Labour were third in 2017 and have a lot of working class Leave voters who will not tactically vote LD but stick with the reds
    But it was a LibDem seat 1985 - 1992 and again 1997 - 2015. The jump in the Tory candidate's vote in 2017 will have reflected two factors which reinforced each other -
    - first term incumbency for a new MP
    - the much higher national Tory vote share.
    Neither factor will apply this time.
    I do not doubt it will be ters will.
    Oh for gods sake cut the crap the lib dems will get north of 50% of the vote against a lying cheating fraud. They know how to run a by election, many of the 10% of the voters who are farmers are shitting themselves over the lunatic approach the Tory’s are taking over brexit. If you believe what you are posting you would have the house on a Tory win. Forget bloody national polls for once and look to historical performance in by elections. So how much have you put on a Tory win?
    In the last by election in a Leave seat the LDs had a chance of winning, Sleaford and North Hykeham in 2016 (the LDs were second there in 2010), the Tory to LD swing was 4%.

    Leave voting Brecon and Radnor is more Sleaford and North Hykeham than Remain voting Witney or Richmond Park
    The EU referendum result in Brecon & Radnor was closer to Witney than to Sleaford & North Hykeham.
    The Brexit Party won Powys and North Kesteven in the European elections, the LDs won West Oxfordshire
  • malcolmgmalcolmg Posts: 43,362

    malcolmg said:

    kinabalu said:

    I was tempted by the 9 on betfair for a Con hold. Just seemed a bit high in the circumstances although of course it would be a surprise if the LDs fail to take the seat.

    On another matter I owe the blog an apology. My sources were wrong. Stormzy did deliver a powerful, politically charged set last night at Glasto but he did NOT come out clearly for a second referendum with Remain as an option. Has he been got at by Seumus Milne? I hope not.

    He has to do something as his "music" is absolute crap.
    Alright Granddad.
    I can still tell when it is music and when it is utter crap you young scamp. He needs to get a pair of trousers that fit him as well or buy a belt at least , nobody wants to see his arse.
  • ydoethurydoethur Posts: 71,426
    nichomar said:

    malcolmg said:

    HYUFD said:

    HYUFD said:

    I don't think this is quite true, Labour is still standing and while Corbyn still backs Brexit most Labour MPs back Remain and EUref2.

    That is a very good letter by Chris Davies warning voters in a pro Brexit area (Powys was 52% Leave and the Brexit Party won it in the European Parliament elections) how Peterborough showed that voting for the Brexit Party could allow a pro Remain candidate through the middle.

    Indeed while in Peterborough it was the the Brexit Party that cost the Tories the seat (or you could argue the other way around) in Brecon it could be Labour that costs the LDs the seat.

    At the 2017 general election the LDs and Plaid combined got 32% in Brecon and Radnor (the Greens did not stand), well behind the Tories 48.6%. Add in Labour's 17.7% to the 32% for the LDs and Plaid and you get to 49.7% ie above the Tories' vote

    You think Brexit is more important than getting rid of crooked politicians?
    I think Brexit is more important than trying to get rid of hard working local MPs who have faced their punishment for any expenses errors
    They should bring out the Maiden for these chancers. Sooner we are free of these losers the better.
    Will you stop peddling the lie that it was an expenses error. It was deliberate fraud to cover up an overspend on a budget line by forging invoices to pass the expense of on an unrelated code. He was unwilling to dip in his own pocket to cover the ‘mistake’ so he committed a criminal offense and got caught. If his constituents buy this they are welcome to him.
    That seems a non-sequitur (as well as horrible Yankee spelling). The good MrG calls for brutal torture of the candidate, and you say he's peddling lies and being too soft?
  • ydoethurydoethur Posts: 71,426
    malcolmg said:

    ydoethur said:

    malcolmg said:

    HYUFD said:

    felix said:

    The refusal of the BXP to even consider a tactical withdrawal reflects what we saw within the Tory party over the Withdrawal Agreement earlier in the year. A total refusal to compromise which is completely at odds with electoral reality. For remainers this can only be good news. As a lifelong Tory who prefers Remain but would have accepted the Referendum result I find it all very sad. I think that the country would eventually have accepted a modest Brexit. I'm unclear that remain will heal the divisions we now have. My sole consolation is that I don't live in the UK anymore.

    The country want a a Canada style FTA for GB, it just needs a pro Brexit PM who believes in that vision and who can win a majority and deliver it. We all know who that might be!
    I am not sure the country does know what it wants. The evidence, other than that which you are about to produce to prove me wrong, would seem to demonstrate this too.

    By the way, did you see Johnson's model bus interview? For me it was an example of his utter contempt for his audience, namely both his immediate and wider electorate. He was making a monkey out of you and me!
    He really is a nasty piece of work and Hunt is not much better , a bigger pair of smug chancers you will never see.
    Evening Malcolm, trust he turnips are bearing up in this hot weather. We may be needing plenty before too long...
    Good evening Ydoethur, yes all well though weather turned here today , had thunder and lightning and a bit muggy now.
    Hopefully we will get out of this morass as soon as possible. In your wildest dreams you could not make up this sh**fest and these evil nasty Tories. England has gone radio rental.
    I pity anybody that does not have plenty of cash , anyone near breadline just now will be in serious trouble.
    It's times like this when you think Cromwell had a point.
  • HYUFDHYUFD Posts: 123,156
    justin124 said:

    HYUFD said:

    justin124 said:

    HYUFD said:

    JackW said:

    HYUFD said:

    JackW said:

    Given what we all know about government performances in by-elections especially one as spectacularly unpopular as this one and the unusual spectacle of the "conviction" Conservative candidate revisiting the scene of the crime why would the voters of Brecon and Radnor not give the Conservatives a hefty kick in the ballot box?

    A Government so spectacularly unpopular the Tories lead in both the latest Yougov and Mori polls?
    Please advise us how much vote share the Conservatives have lost since the 2017 general election and also their vote share at the local and European election this year.

    Such popularity seems to be at odds with the threat of extinction enunciated by all the Tory leadership contenders.

    Your dancing on a pin head is entertaining but surely in time it must be most uncomfortable for the most loyal of Conservatives?
    The Tory voteshare is well up on the European elections as they gradually win back Brexit Party voters, if Boris is leader in August when the by election will be held on a Leave in October Deal or No Deal ticket that will shore up the Tory vote in Brecon and Radnor yet further
    If it follows the pattern of the Peterborough by election - which saw a 25% drop in the Tory vote share - the Tories will do well to get 30% here. Any Boris bounce is likely to be largely in the poll figures we are currently seeing - and many postal votes will already have been cast.
    It won't, as the Brexit Party is already polling below what it was polling at the time of the Peterborough by election and the Tories are polling above and that is even before the bounce for a new leader
    Not really. Yougov are the only regular pollster we see at present. In the days leading up to the Peterborough election that pollster had the Brexit Party on 25% and 26% as compared with 22% in their most recent poll. Some slippage but not dramatic.
    Quite a significant change actually given the Tories were on 18% with Yougov before the Peterborough by election, the Tories are on 22% in the latest Yougov
  • malcolmgmalcolmg Posts: 43,362
    edited June 2019

    Daily Mail comments are easy to mock but this one is a bit special:

    https://twitter.com/supermathskid/status/1144991107291521024?s=21

    Bobby has it right , they should get a real job.
    PS: Clever him posting from the other side
  • IanB2IanB2 Posts: 49,869

    Daily Mail comments are easy to mock but this one is a bit special:

    https://twitter.com/supermathskid/status/1144991107291521024?s=21

    Yet another expat. Why do we allow these people to vote here?
  • HYUFDHYUFD Posts: 123,156
    edited June 2019
    OllyT said:

    HYUFD said:

    OllyT said:

    MrsB said:

    IanB2 said:

    Nice of the Tories to help the LibDems squeeze the Labour vote.

    that was my thought exactly!
    The Labour vote is concentrated in the south, where Brecknockshire begins to turn into the Heads of the Valleys -- places like Ystradgynlais (the second largest town in Powys) and Abercraf.

    These places have much more in common with the constituencies directly to the South -- Cynon Valley, Merthyr Tydfil & Rhymney, Neath. They are cut from the same cloth.

    Good luck to LibDems canvassing there on "Bollocks to Brexit", and hoping for Labour switchers.
    Aren't current Labour voters about 75% remain anyway now? The voters you are talking about are surely more likely to be voting for Farage's outfit by now.

    I suspect that many of the remaining 25% will prioritise the chance to kick out a Tory, particularly as I understand the Greens and Plaid have decided to give the Lib Dems a clear run.

    Labour voters have always shown themselves to be pretty good at tactical voting. The core Labour vote at the by-election is more likely to be Corbynistas than hardline Brexiteers.
    That could be enough for a Tory hold.

    2017 LDs plus Plaid (there was no Green candidate)= 32% in Brecon and Radnor while the Tories got 48.6%.

    2017 LDs plus Plaid plus Labour = 49.7% but even in the European elections Labour got 7.3% in Powys and if they stick with Labour that could be enough for the Tories to scrape home
    You seem to overlooking the rather large fact that the Tory vote is going to split between them and the Brexit Party.
    The Tories are now no longer behind the BP in the latest polling and will get a further bounce from the BP if PM Boris as he is committed to Brexit Deal or No Deal in October
  • Philip_ThompsonPhilip_Thompson Posts: 65,826
    Zephyr said:

    Absolutely. I agree there is no greater crime than hypocrisy, except maybe the refusal to uphold values because one may oneself have fallen short of them. Is this epidemic of knife crime fuelled by demand for cocaine as police chiefs ask us to believe disputed anymore? Or that as conservative politicians ask us to believe, middle-class professionals push to liberalise drugs laws to deal with their own guilt over taking drugs? We agree Onasanya’s crime and hypocrisy is right at the top of the list, but why don’t you have a politician telling us drug laws are there for a reason, publicly legislating to that whilst privately floating those laws, at the top of the list alongside Onasanya?

    Point of order: There is no evidence that has happened. As far as I know no politician has either confessed to, or been found guilty of, flouwing drug laws whilst telling us drug laws are there for a reason and publicly legislating to that effect.

    Gove's confessions were for when he was a young man in journalism decades prior not that he was doing it whilst a leading politician.
  • malcolmgmalcolmg Posts: 43,362
    nichomar said:

    malcolmg said:

    HYUFD said:

    HYUFD said:

    I don't think this is quite true, Labour is still standing and while Corbyn still backs Brexit most Labour MPs back Remain and EUref2.

    That is a very good letter by Chris Davies warning voters in a pro Brexit area (Powys was 52% Leave and the Brexit Party won it in the European Parliament elections) how Peterborough showed that voting for the Brexit Party could allow a pro Remain candidate through the middle.

    Indeed while in Peterborough it was the the Brexit Party that cost the Tories the seat (or you could argue the other way around) in Brecon it could be Labour that costs the LDs the seat.

    At the 2017 general election the LDs and Plaid combined got 32% in Brecon and Radnor (the Greens did not stand), well behind the Tories 48.6%. Add in Labour's 17.7% to the 32% for the LDs and Plaid and you get to 49.7% ie above the Tories' vote

    You think Brexit is more important than getting rid of crooked politicians?
    I think Brexit is more important than trying to get rid of hard working local MPs who have faced their punishment for any expenses errors
    They should bring out the Maiden for these chancers. Sooner we are free of these losers the better.
    Will you stop peddling the lie that it was an expenses error. It was deliberate fraud to cover up an overspend on a budget line by forging invoices to pass the expense of on an unrelated code. He was unwilling to dip in his own pocket to cover the ‘mistake’ so he committed a criminal offense and got caught. If his constituents buy this they are welcome to him.
    Hmmm, I do not believe supporting him having his head removed by a badly designed guillotine is peddling a lie.
  • CatManCatMan Posts: 3,060
    IanB2 said:

    Daily Mail comments are easy to mock but this one is a bit special:

    https://twitter.com/supermathskid/status/1144991107291521024?s=21

    Yet another expat. Why do we allow these people to vote here?
    Surely it's a parody post? (But then I wouldn't be surprised if it was real either)
  • OllyTOllyT Posts: 5,006
    edited June 2019
    justin124 said:

    OllyT said:

    MrsB said:

    IanB2 said:

    Nice of the Tories to help the LibDems squeeze the Labour vote.

    that was my thought exactly!
    The Labour vote is concentrated in the south, where Brecknockshire begins to turn into the Heads of the Valleys -- places like Ystradgynlais (the second largest town in Powys) and Abercraf.

    These places have much more in common with the constituencies directly to the South -- Cynon Valley, Merthyr Tydfil & Rhymney, Neath. They are cut from the same cloth.

    Good luck to LibDems canvassing there on "Bollocks to Brexit", and hoping for Labour switchers.
    Aren't current Labour voters about 75% remain anyway now? The voters you are talking about are surely more likely to be voting for Farage's outfit by now.

    I suspect that many of the remaining 25% will prioritise the chance to kick out a Tory, particularly as I understand the Greens and Plaid have decided to give the Lib Dems a clear run.

    Labour voters have always shown themselves to be pretty good at tactical voting. The core Labour vote at the by-election is more likely to be Corbynistas than hardline Brexiteers.
    The Greens have agreed to stand aside, but I don't think Plaid Cymru have yet agreed.

    The Labour voters in Powys do not live in the pretty spa towns. They are in places much closer in outlook to the Labour voters in the Don Valley.

    A statement like "current Labour voters are 75 per cent remain" may be true nationally, but I doubt if it is true in Ystradgynlais.
    Even if it were true, it is far too simplistic to assume that being 'Remain' or 'Leave' is likely to be the main determinant of how such people will vote. Labour voters are far less obsessed with Brexit than Tories.
    Quite and many will take the chance to boot out a Tory, especially one caught out on expenses fraud.
  • ydoethurydoethur Posts: 71,426
    malcolmg said:

    nichomar said:

    malcolmg said:

    HYUFD said:

    HYUFD said:

    I don't think this is quite true, Labour is still standing and while Corbyn still backs Brexit most Labour MPs back Remain and EUref2.

    That is a very good letter by Chris Davies warning voters in a pro Brexit area (Powys was 52% Leave and the Brexit Party won it in the European Parliament elections) how Peterborough showed that voting for the Brexit Party could allow a pro Remain candidate through the middle.

    Indeed while in Peterborough it was the the Brexit Party that cost the Tories the seat (or you could argue the other way around) in Brecon it could be Labour that costs the LDs the seat.

    At the 2017 general election the LDs and Plaid combined got 32% in Brecon and Radnor (the Greens did not stand), well behind the Tories 48.6%. Add in Labour's 17.7% to the 32% for the LDs and Plaid and you get to 49.7% ie above the Tories' vote

    You think Brexit is more important than getting rid of crooked politicians?
    I think Brexit is more important than trying to get rid of hard working local MPs who have faced their punishment for any expenses errors
    They should bring out the Maiden for these chancers. Sooner we are free of these losers the better.
    Will you stop peddling the lie that it was an expenses error. It was deliberate fraud to cover up an overspend on a budget line by forging invoices to pass the expense of on an unrelated code. He was unwilling to dip in his own pocket to cover the ‘mistake’ so he committed a criminal offense and got caught. If his constituents buy this they are welcome to him.
    Hmmm, I do not believe supporting him having his head removed by a badly designed guillotine is peddling a lie.
    If it's badly designed, would it remove his head?

    And if it were used on say, Boris, would it remove the area where he keeps his brains, or just his head?
  • Philip_ThompsonPhilip_Thompson Posts: 65,826
    Zephyr said:

    Zephyr said:


    Absolutely. I agree there is no greater crime than hypocrisy, except maybe the refusal to uphold values because one may oneself have fallen short of them. Is this epidemic of knife crime fuelled by demand for cocaine as police chiefs ask us to believe disputed anymore? Or that as conservative politicians ask us to believe, middle-class professionals push to liberalise drugs laws to deal with their own guilt over taking drugs? We agree Onasanya’s crime and hypocrisy is right at the top of the list, but why don’t you have a politician telling us drug laws are there for a reason, publicly legislating to that whilst privately floating those laws, at the top of the list alongside Onasanya?

    Because there was no prosecution. There has to be some way to gauge these matters to prevent spurious recalls and a criminal prosecution seem to be a good place to start. Personally I would like to see the scope of recalls extended but for now I am satisfied the system - which ultimately leaves the decision to the electorate - seems to be working.
    I agree with you. We have had 3 (?) and it does seem to be working. But one person being charged, another not, especially with historical crimes, can it be a bit arbitrary? Dick looked into Gove’s admission herself and concluded not enough to prosecute.

    And when it comes to sex crimes, how are they going to be gauged? Politicians tend to herd together when one of there own is accused of such things. I feel there’s little to stop it becoming more spurious, the driving force behind recalls can be people as neutral as school governors, or neutral as governors of the BBC, and the number of unaffiliated voters needed for successful recall can be very small.

    And it can also be cultural as much as legal, where for example most people in this country wouldn’t currently regard Goves crime on a par with Onasayna’s, the population of another country, or even this country in future, might view it differently?

    Who was charged for "historical" crimes?

    Davies was charged for recently making fraudulant expenses whilst an MP.
    Osanaya was charged for recently perverting the course of justice whilst an MP.
    Gove was not charged for decades previously taking illicit drugs when he wasn't an MP.
  • malcolmgmalcolmg Posts: 43,362

    Zephyr said:

    Absolutely. I agree there is no greater crime than hypocrisy, except maybe the refusal to uphold values because one may oneself have fallen short of them. Is this epidemic of knife crime fuelled by demand for cocaine as police chiefs ask us to believe disputed anymore? Or that as conservative politicians ask us to believe, middle-class professionals push to liberalise drugs laws to deal with their own guilt over taking drugs? We agree Onasanya’s crime and hypocrisy is right at the top of the list, but why don’t you have a politician telling us drug laws are there for a reason, publicly legislating to that whilst privately floating those laws, at the top of the list alongside Onasanya?

    Point of order: There is no evidence that has happened. As far as I know no politician has either confessed to, or been found guilty of, flouwing drug laws whilst telling us drug laws are there for a reason and publicly legislating to that effect.

    Gove's confessions were for when he was a young man in journalism decades prior not that he was doing it whilst a leading politician.
    He is still a hypocritical little slimy creep though.
  • IanB2IanB2 Posts: 49,869
    edited June 2019
    CatMan said:

    IanB2 said:

    Daily Mail comments are easy to mock but this one is a bit special:

    https://twitter.com/supermathskid/status/1144991107291521024?s=21

    Yet another expat. Why do we allow these people to vote here?
    Surely it's a parody post? (But then I wouldn't be surprised if it was real either)
    Doesn’t really matter. We have seen enough nonsense from ex pats on here to question why they should still vote here. You live here, you vote here; you don’t, you don’t. As and when they return, they get the vote back. I can’t see the logic in sending ballot papers to people who live and work all round the world.
  • malcolmgmalcolmg Posts: 43,362
    ydoethur said:

    malcolmg said:

    nichomar said:

    malcolmg said:

    HYUFD said:

    HYUFD said:

    I don't think this is quite true, Labour is still standing and while Corbyn still backs Brexit most Labour MPs back Remain and EUref2.

    That is a very good letter by Chris Davies warning voters in a pro Brexit area (Powys was 52% Leave and the Brexit Party won it in the European Parliament elections) how Peterborough showed that voting for the Brexit Party could allow a pro Remain candidate through the middle.

    Indeed while in Peterborough it was the the Brexit Party that cost the Tories the seat (or you could argue the other way around) in Brecon it could be Labour that costs the LDs the seat.

    At the 2017 general election the LDs and Plaid combined got 32% in Brecon and Radnor (the Greens did not stand), well behind the Tories 48.6%. Add in Labour's 17.7% to the 32% for the LDs and Plaid and you get to 49.7% ie above the Tories' vote

    You think Brexit is more important than getting rid of crooked politicians?
    I think Brexit is more important than trying to get rid of hard working local MPs who have faced their punishment for any expenses errors
    They should bring out the Maiden for these chancers. Sooner we are free of these losers the better.
    Will you stop peddling the lie that it was an expenses error. It was deliberate fraud to cover up an overspend on a budget line by forging invoices to pass the expense of on an unrelated code. He was unwilling to dip in his own pocket to cover the ‘mistake’ so he committed a criminal offense and got caught. If his constituents buy this they are welcome to him.
    Hmmm, I do not believe supporting him having his head removed by a badly designed guillotine is peddling a lie.
    If it's badly designed, would it remove his head?

    And if it were used on say, Boris, would it remove the area where he keeps his brains, or just his head?
    They do say it was a bit crude and not very pleasant , much worse than the later French version. Need to be a big sharp one to get through Boris's brass neck.
  • malcolmgmalcolmg Posts: 43,362
    OllyT said:

    justin124 said:

    OllyT said:

    MrsB said:

    IanB2 said:

    Nice of the Tories to help the LibDems squeeze the Labour vote.

    that was my thought exactly!
    The Labour vote is concentrated in the south, where Brecknockshire begins to turn into the Heads of the Valleys -- places like Ystradgynlais (the second largest town in Powys) and Abercraf.

    These places have much more in common with the constituencies directly to the South -- Cynon Valley, Merthyr Tydfil & Rhymney, Neath. They are cut from the same cloth.

    Good luck to LibDems canvassing there on "Bollocks to Brexit", and hoping for Labour switchers.
    Aren't current Labour voters about 75% remain anyway now? The voters you are talking about are surely more likely to be voting for Farage's outfit by now.

    I suspect that many of the remaining 25% will prioritise the chance to kick out a Tory, particularly as I understand the Greens and Plaid have decided to give the Lib Dems a clear run.

    Labour voters have always shown themselves to be pretty good at tactical voting. The core Labour vote at the by-election is more likely to be Corbynistas than hardline Brexiteers.
    The Greens have agreed to stand aside, but I don't think Plaid Cymru have yet agreed.

    The Labour voters in Powys do not live in the pretty spa towns. They are in places much closer in outlook to the Labour voters in the Don Valley.

    A statement like "current Labour voters are 75 per cent remain" may be true nationally, but I doubt if it is true in Ystradgynlais.
    Even if it were true, it is far too simplistic to assume that being 'Remain' or 'Leave' is likely to be the main determinant of how such people will vote. Labour voters are far less obsessed with Brexit than Tories.
    Quite and many will take the chance to boot out a Tory, especially one caught out on expenses fraud.
    In any other sphere he would be at her Majesty's pleasure. That the Tories put him back up after he has committed fraud and fiddled his expenses shows exactly their moral compass. If that was someone on benefits the Tories would have wanted him put away for life.
  • malcolmgmalcolmg Posts: 43,362
    IanB2 said:

    CatMan said:

    IanB2 said:

    Daily Mail comments are easy to mock but this one is a bit special:

    https://twitter.com/supermathskid/status/1144991107291521024?s=21

    Yet another expat. Why do we allow these people to vote here?
    Surely it's a parody post? (But then I wouldn't be surprised if it was real either)
    Doesn’t really matter. We have seen enough nonsense from ex pats on here to question why they should still vote here. You live here, you vote here; you don’t, you don’t. As and when they return, they get the vote back. I can’t see the logic in sending ballot papers to people who live and work all round the world.
    It is a disgrace
  • OmniumOmnium Posts: 10,780
    malcolmg said:

    Zephyr said:

    Absolutely. I agree there is no greater crime than hypocrisy, except maybe the refusal to uphold values because one may oneself have fallen short of them. Is this epidemic of knife crime fuelled by demand for cocaine as police chiefs ask us to believe disputed anymore? Or that as conservative politicians ask us to believe, middle-class professionals push to liberalise drugs laws to deal with their own guilt over taking drugs? We agree Onasanya’s crime and hypocrisy is right at the top of the list, but why don’t you have a politician telling us drug laws are there for a reason, publicly legislating to that whilst privately floating those laws, at the top of the list alongside Onasanya?

    Point of order: There is no evidence that has happened. As far as I know no politician has either confessed to, or been found guilty of, flouwing drug laws whilst telling us drug laws are there for a reason and publicly legislating to that effect.

    Gove's confessions were for when he was a young man in journalism decades prior not that he was doing it whilst a leading politician.
    He is still a hypocritical little slimy creep though.
    It's the 'trust' thing though. Keeping his word. We're British after all!

    I'm curious Mr G, Malcom as to whether there are Tory politicians that you don't disapprove of entirely? (There may be none, and that's understandable)
  • OllyTOllyT Posts: 5,006
    ydoethur said:

    OllyT said:

    HYUFD said:

    OllyT said:

    MrsB said:

    IanB2 said:

    Nice of the Tories to help the LibDems squeeze the Labour vote.

    that was my thought exactly!
    The Labour vote is concentrated in the south, where Brecknockshire begins to turn into the Heads of the Valleys -- places like Ystradgynlais (the second largest town in Powys) and Abercraf.

    These places have much more in common with the constituencies directly to the South -- Cynon Valley, Merthyr Tydfil & Rhymney, Neath. They are cut from the same cloth.

    Good luck to LibDems canvassing there on "Bollocks to Brexit", and hoping for Labour switchers.
    Aren't current Labour voters about 75% remain anyway now? The voters you are talking about are surely more likely to be voting for Farage's outfit by now.

    I suspect that many of the remaining 25% will prioritise the chance to kick out a Tory, particularly as I understand the Greens and Plaid have decided to give the Lib Dems a clear run.

    Labour voters have always shown themselves to be pretty good at tactical voting. The core Labour vote at the by-election is more likely to be Corbynistas than hardline Brexiteers.
    That could be enough for a Tory hold.

    2017 LDs plus Plaid (there was no Green candidate)= 32% in Brecon and Radnor while the Tories got 48.6%.

    2017 LDs plus Plaid plus Labour = 49.7% but even in the European elections Labour got 7.3% in Powys and if they stick with Labour that could be enough for the Tories to scrape home
    You seem to overlooking the rather large fact that the Tory vote is going to split between them and the Brexit Party.
    Have they confirmed they're standing?
    Good point. I just assumed they would be. Why would Farage duck it?
  • malcolmgmalcolmg Posts: 43,362
    edited June 2019
    Omnium said:

    malcolmg said:

    Zephyr said:

    Absolutely. I agree there is no greater crime than hypocrisy, except maybe the refusal to uphold values because one may oneself have fallen short of them. Is this epidemic of knife crime fuelled by demand for cocaine as police chiefs ask us to believe disputed anymore? Or that as conservative politicians ask us to believe, middle-class professionals push to liberalise drugs laws to deal with their own guilt over taking drugs? We agree Onasanya’s crime and hypocrisy is right at the top of the list, but why don’t you have a politician telling us drug laws are there for a reason, publicly legislating to that whilst privately floating those laws, at the top of the list alongside Onasanya?

    Point of order: There is no evidence that has happened. As far as I know no politician has either confessed to, or been found guilty of, flouwing drug laws whilst telling us drug laws are there for a reason and publicly legislating to that effect.

    Gove's confessions were for when he was a young man in journalism decades prior not that he was doing it whilst a leading politician.
    He is still a hypocritical little slimy creep though.
    It's the 'trust' thing though. Keeping his word. We're British after all!

    I'm curious Mr G, Malcom as to whether there are Tory politicians that you don't disapprove of entirely? (There may be none, and that's understandable)
    I like Ken Clarke he is the only one I can see who has a heart. The amount of lying unprincipled toerags in the Tories, MP's and MSP's is shocking.
    PS: I am sure there are a few I have never heard of who are half decent but certainly not in public. The Scottish ones are particularly dire.
  • ydoethurydoethur Posts: 71,426
    edited June 2019
    OllyT said:

    ydoethur said:

    OllyT said:

    HYUFD said:

    OllyT said:

    MrsB said:

    IanB2 said:

    Nice of the Tories to help the LibDems squeeze the Labour vote.

    that was my thought exactly!
    The Labour vote is concentrated in the south, where Brecknockshire begins to turn into the Heads of the Valleys -- places like Ystradgynlais (the second largest town in Powys) and Abercraf.

    These places have much more in common with the constituencies directly to the South -- Cynon Valley, Merthyr Tydfil & Rhymney, Neath. They are cut from the same cloth.

    Good luck to LibDems canvassing there on "Bollocks to Brexit", and hoping for Labour switchers.
    Aren't current Labour voters about 75% remain anyway now? The voters you are talking about are surely more likely to be voting for Farage's outfit by now.

    I suspect that many of the remaining 25% will prioritise the chance to kick out a Tory, particularly as I understand the Greens and Plaid have decided to give the Lib Dems a clear run.

    Labour voters have always shown themselves to be pretty good at tactical voting. The core Labour vote at the by-election is more likely to be Corbynistas than hardline Brexiteers.
    That could be enough for a Tory hold.

    2017 LDs plus Plaid (there was no Green candidate)= 32% in Brecon and Radnor while the Tories got 48.6%.

    2017 LDs plus Plaid plus Labour = 49.7% but even in the European elections Labour got 7.3% in Powys and if they stick with Labour that could be enough for the Tories to scrape home
    You seem to overlooking the rather large fact that the Tory vote is going to split between them and the Brexit Party.
    Have they confirmed they're standing?
    Good point. I just assumed they would be. Why would Farage duck it?
    He'd lose. Badly. As in probably fourth. And if the vote for the Brexit Party was greater than a Liberal Democrat margin of victory, he would face rather awkward questions.

    They would need a local candidate to stand any chance at all. The question is whether they can find one.
  • CatManCatMan Posts: 3,060
    edited June 2019
    OllyT said:

    ydoethur said:

    OllyT said:

    HYUFD said:

    OllyT said:

    MrsB said:

    IanB2 said:

    Nice of the Tories to help the LibDems squeeze the Labour vote.

    that was my thought exactly!
    The Labour vote is concentrated in the south, where Brecknockshire begins to turn into the Heads of the Valleys -- places like Ystradgynlais (the second largest town in Powys) and Abercraf.

    These places have much more in common with the constituencies directly to the South -- Cynon Valley, Merthyr Tydfil & Rhymney, Neath. They are cut from the same cloth.

    Good luck to LibDems canvassing there on "Bollocks to Brexit", and hoping for Labour switchers.
    Aren't current Labour voters about 75% remain anyway now? The voters you are talking about are surely more likely to be voting for Farage's outfit by now.

    I suspect that many of the remaining 25% will prioritise the chance to kick out a Tory, particularly as I understand the Greens and Plaid have decided to give the Lib Dems a clear run.

    Labour voters have always shown themselves to be pretty good at tactical voting. The core Labour vote at the by-election is more likely to be Corbynistas than hardline Brexiteers.
    That could be enough for a Tory hold.

    2017 LDs plus Plaid (there was no Green candidate)= 32% in Brecon and Radnor while the Tories got 48.6%.

    2017 LDs plus Plaid plus Labour = 49.7% but even in the European elections Labour got 7.3% in Powys and if they stick with Labour that could be enough for the Tories to scrape home
    You seem to overlooking the rather large fact that the Tory vote is going to split between them and the Brexit Party.
    Have they confirmed they're standing?
    Good point. I just assumed they would be. Why would Farage duck it?
    Brexit party are standing:

    https://www.bbc.co.uk/news/uk-wales-politics-48810457
  • OmniumOmnium Posts: 10,780
    malcolmg said:

    Omnium said:

    malcolmg said:

    Zephyr said:

    Absolutely. I agree there is no greater crime than hypocrisy, except maybe the refusal to uphold values because one may oneself have fallen short of them. Is this epidemic of knife crime fuelled by demand for cocaine as police chiefs ask us to believe disputed anymore? Or that as conservative politicians ask us to believe, middle-class professionals push to liberalise drugs laws to deal with their own guilt over taking drugs? We agree Onasanya’s crime and hypocrisy is right at the top of the list, but why don’t you have a politician telling us drug laws are there for a reason, publicly legislating to that whilst privately floating those laws, at the top of the list alongside Onasanya?

    Point of order: There is no evidence that has happened. As far as I know no politician has either confessed to, or been found guilty of, flouwing drug laws whilst telling us drug laws are there for a reason and publicly legislating to that effect.

    Gove's confessions were for when he was a young man in journalism decades prior not that he was doing it whilst a leading politician.
    He is still a hypocritical little slimy creep though.
    It's the 'trust' thing though. Keeping his word. We're British after all!

    I'm curious Mr G, Malcom as to whether there are Tory politicians that you don't disapprove of entirely? (There may be none, and that's understandable)
    I like Ken Clarke he is the only one I can see who has a heart. The amount of lying unprincipled toerags in the Tories, MP's and MSP's is shocking.
    Ah, we all like Ken Clarke. A warm sort of snuggly MP. Those Hush-Puppies!

    I too disapprove of pretty much everything, and his wife, currently.

  • Philip_ThompsonPhilip_Thompson Posts: 65,826
    edited June 2019
    CatMan said:
    Choosing a former Police Chief Superintendent to stand against a convict . . .
  • felixfelix Posts: 15,164
    edited June 2019
    IanB2 said:

    Daily Mail comments are easy to mock but this one is a bit special:

    https://twitter.com/supermathskid/status/1144991107291521024?s=21

    Yet another expat. Why do we allow these people to vote here?
    One hopes you're joking but why would anyone want to deny UK citizens who pay UK taxes the right to vote?

    Edit: I see you're not joking so I have my answer - you don't believe in democracy.
  • ydoethurydoethur Posts: 71,426

    CatMan said:
    Choosing a former Police Chief Superintendent to stand against a convict . . .
    So there's going to be a dangerous person with no morals in the race.

    Up against Chris Davies.
  • CatManCatMan Posts: 3,060
    edited June 2019

    CatMan said:
    Choosing a former Police Chief Superintendent to stand against a convict . . .
    Not sure if he's squeaky clean (if it's the same guy)...

    https://twitter.com/Otto_English/status/1144946211453112323
  • malcolmgmalcolmg Posts: 43,362
    felix said:

    IanB2 said:

    Daily Mail comments are easy to mock but this one is a bit special:

    https://twitter.com/supermathskid/status/1144991107291521024?s=21

    Yet another expat. Why do we allow these people to vote here?
    One hopes you're joking but why would anyone want to deny UK citizens who pay UK taxes the right to vote?
    If you have a residence in the UK and pay taxes then it is reasonable. However if little to no connection then it is a joke.
  • Scott_PScott_P Posts: 51,453
    malcolmg said:

    The amount of lying unprincipled toerags in the Tories, MP's and MSP's is shocking.

    How many have been forced to quit, as a percentage, compared to other parties like the SNP, for example...?
  • felixfelix Posts: 15,164
    malcolmg said:

    felix said:

    IanB2 said:

    Daily Mail comments are easy to mock but this one is a bit special:

    https://twitter.com/supermathskid/status/1144991107291521024?s=21

    Yet another expat. Why do we allow these people to vote here?
    One hopes you're joking but why would anyone want to deny UK citizens who pay UK taxes the right to vote?
    If you have a residence in the UK and pay taxes then it is reasonable. However if little to no connection then it is a joke.
    The law says there is a right to vote for currently up to 15 years as long as you retain citizenship. A legal right to vote is something too important to joke about. The attempt to stigmatise those of us who choose to live outside the UK while we continue to pay taxes is unpleasant and unworthy particularly of those who claim to support the EU. I do not refer to you there.
  • StuartDicksonStuartDickson Posts: 12,146

    It would be ironic if the main effect of the emergence of the Brexit party was to split the Leave vote and act as a catalyst to get Remainers to cooperate so that Remain’s control of Parliament was strengthened.

    Shhhhh...
  • MaxPBMaxPB Posts: 38,868
    IanB2 said:

    Daily Mail comments are easy to mock but this one is a bit special:

    https://twitter.com/supermathskid/status/1144991107291521024?s=21

    Yet another expat. Why do we allow these people to vote here?
    Geolocated to Moscow, perhaps?
  • AndyJSAndyJS Posts: 29,395
    "Brexit rebel MP Sarah Wollaston ‘prepared to step down’ to help a remain alliance

    The MP for Totnes says politicians should urgently prepare for the likelihood of a ‘populist’ autumn election"

    https://www.theguardian.com/uk-news/2019/jun/29/brexit-rebel-sara-wollaston-would-stand-aside-for-a-remain-alliance-candidate
  • El_CapitanoEl_Capitano Posts: 4,239

    Daily Mail comments are easy to mock but this one is a bit special:

    https://twitter.com/supermathskid/status/1144991107291521024?s=21

    You'd have to be hard boiled to want to be under the 'yolk of oppression".
    Breggsit means Breggsit.
  • ydoethurydoethur Posts: 71,426

    Daily Mail comments are easy to mock but this one is a bit special:

    https://twitter.com/supermathskid/status/1144991107291521024?s=21

    You'd have to be hard boiled to want to be under the 'yolk of oppression".
    Breggsit means Breggsit.
    I'm sure that's not white. But Brexiteers shell probably answer for themselves.
  • felixfelix Posts: 15,164
    ydoethur said:

    Daily Mail comments are easy to mock but this one is a bit special:

    https://twitter.com/supermathskid/status/1144991107291521024?s=21

    You'd have to be hard boiled to want to be under the 'yolk of oppression".
    Breggsit means Breggsit.
    I'm sure that's not white. But Brexiteers shell probably answer for themselves.
    By glossing over the truth?
  • NigelbNigelb Posts: 71,238
    ydoethur said:

    Daily Mail comments are easy to mock but this one is a bit special:

    https://twitter.com/supermathskid/status/1144991107291521024?s=21

    You'd have to be hard boiled to want to be under the 'yolk of oppression".
    Breggsit means Breggsit.
    I'm sure that's not white. But Brexiteers shell probably answer for themselves.
    Standing ova...tion.
  • rcs1000rcs1000 Posts: 57,237

    Daily Mail comments are easy to mock but this one is a bit special:

    https://twitter.com/supermathskid/status/1144991107291521024?s=21

    Ummm. The Killers are from Las Vegas.

    Still, I loved their Ode to Free Trade in B Minor.
  • ydoethurydoethur Posts: 71,426
    Nigelb said:

    ydoethur said:

    Daily Mail comments are easy to mock but this one is a bit special:

    https://twitter.com/supermathskid/status/1144991107291521024?s=21

    You'd have to be hard boiled to want to be under the 'yolk of oppression".
    Breggsit means Breggsit.
    I'm sure that's not white. But Brexiteers shell probably answer for themselves.
    Standing ova...tion.
    For that, you get the sac.
  • viewcodeviewcode Posts: 22,131
    ydoethur said:

    Nigelb said:

    ydoethur said:

    Daily Mail comments are easy to mock but this one is a bit special:

    https://twitter.com/supermathskid/status/1144991107291521024?s=21

    You'd have to be hard boiled to want to be under the 'yolk of oppression".
    Breggsit means Breggsit.
    I'm sure that's not white. But Brexiteers shell probably answer for themselves.
    Standing ova...tion.
    For that, you get the sac.
    Eggs-ellent!
  • ydoethurydoethur Posts: 71,426
    viewcode said:

    ydoethur said:

    Nigelb said:

    ydoethur said:

    Daily Mail comments are easy to mock but this one is a bit special:

    https://twitter.com/supermathskid/status/1144991107291521024?s=21

    You'd have to be hard boiled to want to be under the 'yolk of oppression".
    Breggsit means Breggsit.
    I'm sure that's not white. But Brexiteers shell probably answer for themselves.
    Standing ova...tion.
    For that, you get the sac.
    Eggs-ellent!
    I'm worried there's a whisk we might get carried away with egg puns here. Can't we think of something batter?
  • NigelbNigelb Posts: 71,238
    edited June 2019
    ydoethur said:

    viewcode said:

    ydoethur said:

    Nigelb said:

    ydoethur said:

    Daily Mail comments are easy to mock but this one is a bit special:

    https://twitter.com/supermathskid/status/1144991107291521024?s=21

    You'd have to be hard boiled to want to be under the 'yolk of oppression".
    Breggsit means Breggsit.
    I'm sure that's not white. But Brexiteers shell probably answer for themselves.
    Standing ova...tion.
    For that, you get the sac.
    Eggs-ellent!
    I'm worried there's a whisk we might get carried away with egg puns here. Can't we think of something batter?
    I’ll scramble to it.


    Though I may have to poach a few ideas.
  • HYUFDHYUFD Posts: 123,156

    It would be ironic if the main effect of the emergence of the Brexit party was to split the Leave vote and act as a catalyst to get Remainers to cooperate so that Remain’s control of Parliament was strengthened.

    Shhhhh...
    Actually the main effect of the Brexit Party is to force the Tory Party to almost certainly elect a leader who both campaigned for and believes in Brexit ie Boris while Corbyn still refuses to commit to EUref2 for fear of losing Labour Leave seats
  • blueblueblueblue Posts: 875
    viewcode said:

    ydoethur said:

    Nigelb said:

    ydoethur said:

    Daily Mail comments are easy to mock but this one is a bit special:

    https://twitter.com/supermathskid/status/1144991107291521024?s=21

    You'd have to be hard boiled to want to be under the 'yolk of oppression".
    Breggsit means Breggsit.
    I'm sure that's not white. But Brexiteers shell probably answer for themselves.
    Standing ova...tion.
    For that, you get the sac.
    Eggs-ellent!
    En-oeuf with the egg jokes, for God's sake!
  • NigelbNigelb Posts: 71,238
    blueblue said:

    viewcode said:

    ydoethur said:

    Nigelb said:

    ydoethur said:

    Daily Mail comments are easy to mock but this one is a bit special:

    https://twitter.com/supermathskid/status/1144991107291521024?s=21

    You'd have to be hard boiled to want to be under the 'yolk of oppression".
    Breggsit means Breggsit.
    I'm sure that's not white. But Brexiteers shell probably answer for themselves.
    Standing ova...tion.
    For that, you get the sac.
    Eggs-ellent!
    En-oeuf with the egg jokes, for God's sake!
    You suggesting we just retreat into our shells ?
  • NigelbNigelb Posts: 71,238
    ydoethur said:

    CatMan said:
    Choosing a former Police Chief Superintendent to stand against a convict . . .
    So there's going to be a dangerous person with no morals in the race...
    On the plus side, Boris isn’t running.
  • nico67nico67 Posts: 4,502
    I’m sure Brexiters will be overjoyed at the news of Robbins departure . They seem to have assumed he was acting independently and he seemed to have got a lot of flak for simply doing what May wanted .

  • FrancisUrquhartFrancisUrquhart Posts: 82,133
    Why didn’t Jeremy Corbyn go to Glastonbury this year? Couldn’t he find his wellies? Was it too late to hire a yurt? Or is he hiding from Remain supporters? Again.

    https://www.theguardian.com/commentisfree/2019/jun/29/jeremy-corbyn-shuns-glastonbury-no-one-cares-remainers-have-moved-on
  • felixfelix Posts: 15,164
    https://www.pinknews.co.uk/2019/06/28/lgbt-labour-homophobia-west-ham/

    Colour me pink and not a bit surprised. What does Owen Jones have to say about it?
  • nico67nico67 Posts: 4,502
    I really despise the war footing guff added to the no deal preparations .

    What fucking sane country goes through war type preparations which are self inflicted !
  • FrancisUrquhartFrancisUrquhart Posts: 82,133
    The sense of crisis engulfing Labour deepened further last night when shadow education secretary Angela Rayner, a Jeremy Corbyn loyalist, broke cover to express her dismay at Labour’s handling of antisemitism. The shadow cabinet was “totally exasperated by the failure of our movement to be able to deal with this issue”, she said.

    In an extroardinary outburst at a Fabian Society conference, Rayner said she was “absolutely embarrassed by what’s happened over the last few days and I’ve made my representations very clear. If that means setting up an independent system, then so be it... let’s just get on and do it.”

    https://www.theguardian.com/politics/2019/jun/29/mps-tell-jeremy-corbyn-get-grip-or-lose-election-antisemitism

    Well we all know how well the "Independent" inquiry went.
  • viewcodeviewcode Posts: 22,131
    Scott_P said:
    Mr Johnson's transition team are preparing to request Commission President Jean-Claude Juncker and EU Brexit chief Michel Barnier come to Downing Street as one as the new administration's first act"

    Oh Christ. They're either not going to come, in which case Johnson will blame them, or they will come and say "No" to renegotiation, in which Johnson will blame them. Our Glorious Brexit Future.
  • ydoethurydoethur Posts: 71,426
    Nigelb said:

    ydoethur said:

    CatMan said:
    Choosing a former Police Chief Superintendent to stand against a convict . . .
    So there's going to be a dangerous person with no morals in the race...
    On the plus side, Boris isn’t running.
    Why? Has he got too fat or is he switching full time to the horizontal jogging?
  • surbiton19surbiton19 Posts: 1,469
    I keep on reading that Johnson will call a GE because Corbyn "has to" be seen to be agreeing to one.

    What if Corbyn replies as follows: "Yes ! But first pass a bill which makes a No-Deal Brexit unlawful and would require a minimum 55% of MPs to overturn it"


    Then, he could not be seen ducking it.
  • nico67 said:

    I really despise the war footing guff added to the no deal preparations .

    What fucking sane country goes through war type preparations which are self inflicted !

    A country which starts a war?
  • PulpstarPulpstar Posts: 78,217
    With the Corbyn frail claims and the talk of Boris putting a stone back on, perhaps a 10k run to decide who gets into #10 ?
  • Sunil_PrasannanSunil_Prasannan Posts: 51,884

    Why didn’t Jeremy Corbyn go to Glastonbury this year? Couldn’t he find his wellies? Was it too late to hire a yurt? Or is he hiding from Remain supporters? Again.

    https://www.theguardian.com/commentisfree/2019/jun/29/jeremy-corbyn-shuns-glastonbury-no-one-cares-remainers-have-moved-on

    Jezza is so 2017 :lol:
  • Sunil_PrasannanSunil_Prasannan Posts: 51,884
    nico67 said:

    I really despise the war footing guff added to the no deal preparations .

    What fucking sane country goes through war type preparations which are self inflicted !

    "You started it! You invaded Poland!" :lol:
  • ydoethurydoethur Posts: 71,426
    Pulpstar said:

    With the Corbyn frail claims and the talk of Boris putting a stone back on, perhaps a 10k run to decide who gets into #10 ?

    Corbyn would win that very easily.

    Of course he might drop dead immediately afterwards, but that can happen to the healthiest person, and he would still have won.
  • dixiedeandixiedean Posts: 29,414
    Pulpstar said:

    With the Corbyn frail claims and the talk of Boris putting a stone back on, perhaps a 10k run to decide who gets into #10 ?

    Did wonder why he didn't challenge Boris instead of moaning. Only one of them looks in good shape for their age.
  • surbiton19surbiton19 Posts: 1,469
    HYUFD said:



    HYUFD said:

    nichomar said:

    HYUFD said:

    justin124 said:

    HYUFD said:

    JackW said:

    I may be somewhat addled with the heat and being marginally past the first flush of youth but I find the path to a Conservative win at the Brecon and Radnor by-election tighter than @TheScreamingEagles trousers at a Bee Gees tribute night :

    .

    Except Powys voted 52% Leave, only 10 000 voters signed the recall petition and the LDs got 12 000 votes at the last general election in Brecon and Radnor, the Tory candidate clearly got a big personal vote in 2017 and is well known locally while the LD candidate wants to lecture local farmers about not having enough windmills and Labour were third in 2017 and have a lot of working class Leave voters who will not tactically vote LD but stick with the reds
    But it was a LibDem seat 1985 - 1992 and again 1997 - 2015. The jump in the Tory candidate's vote in 2017 will have reflected two factors which reinforced each other -
    - first term incumbency for a new MP
    - the much higher national Tory vote share.
    Neither factor will apply this time.
    I do not doubt it will be ters will.
    Oh for gods sake cut the crap the lib dems will get north of 50% of the vote against a lying cheating fraud. They know how to run a by election, many of the 10% of the voters who are farmers are shitting themselves over the lunatic approach the Tory’s are taking over brexit. If you believe what you are posting you would have the house on a Tory win. Forget bloody national polls for once and look to historical performance in by elections. So how much have you put on a Tory win?
    In the last by election in a Leave seat the LDs had a chance of winning, Sleaford and North Hykeham in 2016 (the LDs were second there in 2010), the Tory to LD swing was 4%.

    Leave voting Brecon and Radnor is more Sleaford and North Hykeham than Remain voting Witney or Richmond Park
    The EU referendum result in Brecon & Radnor was closer to Witney than to Sleaford & North Hykeham.
    The Brexit Party won Powys and North Kesteven in the European elections, the LDs won West Oxfordshire
    Now the Leave vote will be split 3 ways: A "resurgent" Tory Party, a fast disappearing Brexit Party and a already disappeared UKIP.
  • ydoethurydoethur Posts: 71,426
    edited June 2019
    Scott_P said:
    Don't rate Rayner much - for all she has sometimes made sensible noises about lifelong learning - but it's very unusual for her to speak out like this. Surely she would not have done so without at least the tacit backing of Macdonnell or Abbott.
  • nichomarnichomar Posts: 7,483

    Why didn’t Jeremy Corbyn go to Glastonbury this year? Couldn’t he find his wellies? Was it too late to hire a yurt? Or is he hiding from Remain supporters? Again.

    https://www.theguardian.com/commentisfree/2019/jun/29/jeremy-corbyn-shuns-glastonbury-no-one-cares-remainers-have-moved-on

    Jezza is so 2017 :lol:
    The Labour Party, in pursuit of pure socialism, are blowing their best chance to regain control since 2010. If they wish to remain true to the cause but abandon the people who need them then they will go down as traitors and a disgrace to their heritage. Losing elections because of principle doesn’t help anybody apart from those who regard socialist purity as more important.
  • ydoethurydoethur Posts: 71,426
    dixiedean said:

    Pulpstar said:

    With the Corbyn frail claims and the talk of Boris putting a stone back on, perhaps a 10k run to decide who gets into #10 ?

    Did wonder why he didn't challenge Boris instead of moaning. Only one of them looks in good shape for their age.
    I wouldn't have bothered with those last three words.
  • surbiton19surbiton19 Posts: 1,469
    ydoethur said:

    Scott_P said:
    Don't rate Rayner much - for all she has sometimes made sensible noises about lifelong learning - but it's very unusual for her to speak out like this. Surely she would not have done so without at least the tacit backing of Macdonnell or Abbott.
    Rayner actually is a moderate. She did not vote for Corbyn in 2015.
  • viewcodeviewcode Posts: 22,131
    nico67 said:

    I really despise the war footing guff added to the no deal preparations .

    What fucking sane country goes through war type preparations which are self inflicted !

    A country preparing for a continual stream of failures by selecting a scapegoat to blame whilst igniting a culture war. You know. Our country. That one... :(
  • SLAMSLAM Posts: 5
    Is it true there is a big story in pipeline exposing Jane Dodds LIib Dem alleged sleaze. Is it in the Sunday’s
  • nico67nico67 Posts: 4,502
    viewcode said:

    nico67 said:

    I really despise the war footing guff added to the no deal preparations .

    What fucking sane country goes through war type preparations which are self inflicted !

    A country preparing for a continual stream of failures by selecting a scapegoat to blame whilst igniting a culture war. You know. Our country. That one... :(
    Tragic ! What the fuck has happened to the UK .

    Sorry for the language but really I despair at how the UK has gone from London 2012 to this .

  • Scott_PScott_P Posts: 51,453
  • nico67nico67 Posts: 4,502
    Scott_P said:
    Oh yippee Mogg can deliver cheap shoes for peasants ! You know he’s always going on about cheaper footwear for the plebs if the UK exits on no deal . Another loathsome piece of pondscum .
  • steve_garnersteve_garner Posts: 1,019
    nico67 said:

    viewcode said:

    nico67 said:

    I really despise the war footing guff added to the no deal preparations .

    What fucking sane country goes through war type preparations which are self inflicted !

    A country preparing for a continual stream of failures by selecting a scapegoat to blame whilst igniting a culture war. You know. Our country. That one... :(
    Tragic ! What the fuck has happened to the UK .

    Sorry for the language but really I despair at how the UK has gone from London 2012 to this .

    The CEO of Legal & General begs to differ with you. And he does not need to use four letter words when making his point.
  • HYUFDHYUFD Posts: 123,156
    edited June 2019
    Scott_P said:
    Hunt reported to have recruited former Canadian Conservative PM Stephen Harper to his trade negotiating team, though not sure how that will go down with the current Liberal Canadian PM Justin Trudeau given the UK also wants a FTA with Canada post Brexit.

    Boris meanwhile focusing his negotiating team on Geoffrey Cox, Stephen Barclay the current Brexit Secretary and Jacob Rees-Mogg
  • AndrewAndrew Posts: 2,900
    I wonder if there's a prospect better and better LibDem polls become self-perpetuating? A lot of people on the left don't vote LD because they can't win, but a few good polls and that starts to lessen significantly.

    Add on a fresh face as new leader....
  • nico67nico67 Posts: 4,502
    Scott_P said:
    Minister for the Union , good grief he thinks sticking some title on suddenly makes things okay.
  • spire2spire2 Posts: 183
    ydoethur said:

    Scott_P said:
    Don't rate Rayner much - for all she has sometimes made sensible noises about lifelong learning - but it's very unusual for her to speak out like this. Surely she would not have done so without at least the tacit backing of Macdonnell or Abbott.
    Perhaps they should stop moaning and get recruiting people that agree with them . The problem being nobody agrees with the Blairites so they can't
  • HYUFDHYUFD Posts: 123,156

    HYUFD said:



    HYUFD said:

    nichomar said:

    HYUFD said:

    justin124 said:

    HYUFD said:

    JackW said:

    I may be somewhat addled with the heat and being marginally past the first flush of youth but I find the path to a Conservative win at the Brecon and Radnor by-election tighter than @TheScreamingEagles trousers at a Bee Gees tribute night :

    .

    Except Powys voted 52% Leave, only 10 000 voters signed the recall petition and the LDs got 12 000 votes at the last general election in Brecon and Radnor, the Tory candidate clearly got a big personal vote in 2017 and is well known locally while the LD candidate wants to lecture local farmers about not having enough windmills and Labour were third in 2017 and have a lot of working class Leave voters who will not tactically vote LD but stick with the reds
    But it was a LibDem seat 1985 - 1992 and again 1997 - 2015. The jump in the Tory candidate's vote in 2017 will have reflected two factors which reinforced each other -
    - first term incumbency for a new MP
    - the much higher national Tory vote share.
    Neither factor will apply this time.
    I do not doubt it will be ters will.
    Oh for gods sake cut the crap the lib dems will get north of 50% of the vote against a lying cheating fraud. They know how to run a by election, many of the 10% of the voters who are farmers are shitting themselves over the lunatic approach the Tory’s are taking over brexit. If you believe what you are posting you would have the house on a Tory win. Forget bloody national polls for once and look to historical performance in by elections. So how much have you put on a Tory win?
    In the last by election in a Leave seat the LDs had a chance of winning, Sleaford and North Hykeham in 2016 (the LDs were second there in 2010), the Tory to LD swing was 4%.

    Leave voting Brecon and Radnor is more Sleaford and North Hykeham than Remain voting Witney or Richmond Park
    The EU referendum result in Brecon & Radnor was closer to Witney than to Sleaford & North Hykeham.
    The Brexit Party won Powys and North Kesteven in the European elections, the LDs won West Oxfordshire
    Now the Leave vote will be split 3 ways: A "resurgent" Tory Party, a fast disappearing Brexit Party and a already disappeared UKIP.
    Labour will also split the centre left vote with the LDs
  • murali_smurali_s Posts: 3,067
    nico67 said:

    Scott_P said:
    Minister for the Union , good grief he thinks sticking some title on suddenly makes things okay.
    LOL! The man (Johnson) is a fecking clown! A moron of the first order. But we knew that anyway...
  • murali_smurali_s Posts: 3,067
    edited June 2019
    nico67 said:

    Scott_P said:
    Minister for the Union , good grief he thinks sticking some title on suddenly makes things okay.
    Duplicate
  • murali_smurali_s Posts: 3,067
    edited June 2019
    nico67 said:

    Scott_P said:
    Minister for the Union , good grief he thinks sticking some title on suddenly makes things okay.

    Duplicate
  • dixiedeandixiedean Posts: 29,414
    Andrew said:

    I wonder if there's a prospect better and better LibDem polls become self-perpetuating? A lot of people on the left don't vote LD because they can't win, but a few good polls and that starts to lessen significantly.

    Add on a fresh face as new leader....

    People on the Left don't vote LD cos, errr, they aren't on the Left.
  • ydoethurydoethur Posts: 71,426
    spire2 said:

    ydoethur said:

    Scott_P said:
    Don't rate Rayner much - for all she has sometimes made sensible noises about lifelong learning - but it's very unusual for her to speak out like this. Surely she would not have done so without at least the tacit backing of Macdonnell or Abbott.
    Perhaps they should stop moaning and get recruiting people that agree with them . The problem being nobody agrees with the Blairites so they can't
    That's a fairly stunning admission given that what they're disagreeing about is how to deal with the fact that Corbyn's chums are a bunch of racists.
  • justin124justin124 Posts: 11,527
    Andrew said:

    I wonder if there's a prospect better and better LibDem polls become self-perpetuating? A lot of people on the left don't vote LD because they can't win, but a few good polls and that starts to lessen significantly.

    Add on a fresh face as new leader....

    Who lacks any sign of gravitas. She comes across as very lightweight - much more so than Vince Cable or even Tim Farron.
  • nico67nico67 Posts: 4,502

    nico67 said:

    viewcode said:

    nico67 said:

    I really despise the war footing guff added to the no deal preparations .

    What fucking sane country goes through war type preparations which are self inflicted !

    A country preparing for a continual stream of failures by selecting a scapegoat to blame whilst igniting a culture war. You know. Our country. That one... :(
    Tragic ! What the fuck has happened to the UK .

    Sorry for the language but really I despair at how the UK has gone from London 2012 to this .

    The CEO of Legal & General begs to differ with you. And he does not need to use four letter words when making his point.
    Wow you found one CEO and it wasn’t the normal ones wheeled out like Dyson who has pissed off to the Far East , believe in Britain ! There is no economic case for Brexit , it’s lunacy . Apart from that it’s marvelous , let’s all become second class citizens stuck on a fast sinking rock , and begging the lunatic in the WH for a deal .

  • dixiedeandixiedean Posts: 29,414
    nico67 said:

    Scott_P said:
    Minister for the Union , good grief he thinks sticking some title on suddenly makes things okay.
    Got to have someone to tell the jumped up Scots and Irish not to be so silly and give them what for. Don't they realise there's a war on?
This discussion has been closed.