He broke the law, he was guilty of a specific clause of the recall laws introduced as a result of the scandals surrounding MPs expenses. He did it for personal gain and forged receipts to try and cover it up. Let’s see how the conservatives sell that on the doorstep.
I think it was foolish of the Tories to chose him as the candidate again.
But, it is true that, given the munificence of MP expenses fraud, this is a small sum. It is smaller than Lembit had to return for his fucking mammoth plasma screen TV, for example.
Davies has been made an example of. It is a good thing, as we should encourage probity in our MPs.
But it is possible to feel some sympathy for him at a personal level, given what many other MPs have gotten away with.
Let's hope that Jane Dodo does not do a Sarah Olney with her election expenses.
Davies' case is rather different from Opik and the other expenses freeloaders in the he deliberately and knowingly forged an invoice to fool the HoC authorities into paying something which would not otherwise have been paid.
The earlier expenses cases (mostly) concerned payments which were knowingly made by the HoC not because MPs presented false documents or did anything criminal but because the system was too lax and allowed outrageous claims to go through without being questioned. There were a few criminal cases, such as Eliot Morley, but these were a minority.
I agree with all this, though you underestimated the "few criminal cases"
I recollect Morley, Devine, Moran, Chaytor and Illsley, all Labour, all convicted, and mostly carted off to jail.
I think Moran cried a lot in court, and was let off a custodial sentence.
That's five; is five 'a few' or is it three?
MacShane makes six.
Moran pulled a Colditz, frankly, and was given leniency due to mental health issues.
Hazel Blears attempted to rebuild her reputation tonight, promising to pay £13,332 in capital gains tax that she had avoided when she sold one of her homes.
Leaked expenses claims revealed Blears declared a flat in Kennington, south London, as her primary residence for tax purposes – thus avoiding capital gains tax on the £45,000 profit she made when she sold the property – while telling the Commons authorities that it was her second home, a designation that enabled her to claim hundreds of pounds in parliamentary expenses.
Chris Davies can either prove to the satisfaction of his constituents that he is a fit and proper person to be their MP, or he can own his failure. Seems sensible given the comparatively low bar for triggering the byelection.
Low bar? The legal requirement is 10% of those on the electoral roll and in this case nearly 20% actually signed.
But more than 20% backed him at the last General Election didn't they?
Perhaps a fairer way of doing a recall would be to have 2 options on the ballot: I wish to recall, I do not wish to recall, with a recall succeeding if it clears 10% and has more than those saying do not wish to recall.
He broke the law, he was guilty of a specific clause of the recall laws introduced as a result of the scandals surrounding MPs expenses. He did it for personal gain and forged receipts to try and cover it up. Let’s see how the conservatives sell that on the doorstep.
I think it was foolish of the Tories to chose him as the candidate again.
But, it is true that, given the munificence of MP expenses fraud, this is a small sum. It is smaller than Lembit had to return for his fucking mammoth plasma screen TV, for example.
Davies has been made an example of. It is a good thing, as we should encourage probity in our MPs.
But it is possible to feel some sympathy for him at a personal level, given what many other MPs have gotten away with.
Let's hope that Jane Dodo does not do a Sarah Olney with her election expenses.
Davies' case is rather different from Opik and the other expenses freeloaders in the he deliberately and knowingly forged an invoice to fool the HoC authorities into paying something which would not otherwise have been paid.
The earlier expenses cases (mostly) concerned payments which were knowingly made by the HoC not because MPs presented false documents or did anything criminal but because the system was too lax and allowed outrageous claims to go through without being questioned. There were a few criminal cases, such as Eliot Morley, but these were a minority.
I agree with all this, though you underestimated the "few criminal cases"
I recollect Morley, Devine, Moran, Chaytor, MacShane and Illsley, all Labour, all convicted, and mostly carted off to jail.
I think Moran cried a lot in court, and was let off a custodial sentence.
Yes and there was also a Tory peer I think, but these are only a few compared to the total number of MPs who were making excessive claims and manipulating the second homes arrangements to their advantage, I guess that was in the 100s?
There is a way out of this for Boris; it emerges that his girlfriend was the aggressor and he was being gentlemanly in not revealing so. I have had bust ups where girlfriends have kicked and scratched me, and, had the neighbours had a glass to the wall, they’d have probably heard them say ‘get off me’ when I kept them at arms length
Desperate stuff from the Boris apologists! I wouldn't worry, the Conservative party has been so skilfully infiltrated by Brexit fantasists that he could get his tackle out in front of HM the Queen and they would still vote him in.
There is a way out of this for Boris; it emerges that his girlfriend was the aggressor and he was being gentlemanly in not revealing so. I have had bust ups where girlfriends have kicked and scratched me, and, had the neighbours had a glass to the wall, they’d have probably heard them say ‘get off me’ when I kept them at arms length
This is getting rather desperate. How would that 'emerge'?
It's a case of 'he-said', 'she-said'. Even if she came out to say: "It was all my fault!", then it's far too late now, and it'll look just like a cover-up.
Well the hypothesis that it was her doing most of the raised voice and crockery smashing action tally with the other neighbours reports (The ones that had the press come to them not the other way round).
Whatever Boris says he'll be pilloried so best just to keep it private as 70% of the public think it should be.
There is a way out of this for Boris; it emerges that his girlfriend was the aggressor and he was being gentlemanly in not revealing so. I have had bust ups where girlfriends have kicked and scratched me, and, had the neighbours had a glass to the wall, they’d have probably heard them say ‘get off me’ when I kept them at arms length
Desperate stuff from the Boris apologists! I wouldn't worry, the Conservative party has been so skilfully infiltrated by Brexit fantasists that he could get his tackle out in front of HM the Queen and they would still vote him in.
I’m not saying that is what happened, just that it would be a good way out for him.
I’m not a Conservative or a Boris supporter. He’s going to be leader of your party, not mine
People with nothing to lose are much more likely to take leaps of faith. The SDP was formed in large part because many MPs feared deselection.
He does not belong in the Bluekip party formerly known as the Conservatives. I hope politicians like him find a welcoming and successful home in a broad church re-invigorated LibDems.
This - I do wonder how well he would do as the existing Lib Dem MP in that constituency in the next election (by the looks of it the referendum result was roughly 51:49% )
He has definitely had voice coaching - much softer, less strident. The new softer, caring Boris.
Still a useless twat, though.
In the Kuenssberg interview I was trying to think of who his speech patterns reminded me of and eventually realised it was Dominic Raab. Somehow without the clownishness, it's much more obvious that there's no substance.
More back of a fag packet stuff. He really is hopeless. He makes TMay look like a consummate leader. I used to think he would be fun to have a piss up in brewery with, but I don't think he could even manage that.
Chris Davies got the highest Tory voteshare since the 1960s in Brecon and Radnor though in 2017 so clearly he has a strong personal vote and deserves the chance to stand again.
Had he been jailed like Onasanya it may have been different but he faced a fine and community service instead and has faced his punishment
Why do the Tories think that a convicted fraudster should be their candidate? Are they so short of talent that they cannot find anyone else to stand who does not have a criminal conviction?
There is a way out of this for Boris; it emerges that his girlfriend was the aggressor and he was being gentlemanly in not revealing so. I have had bust ups where girlfriends have kicked and scratched me, and, had the neighbours had a glass to the wall, they’d have probably heard them say ‘get off me’ when I kept them at arms length
This is getting rather desperate. How would that 'emerge'?
It's a case of 'he-said', 'she-said'. Even if she came out to say: "It was all my fault!", then it's far too late now, and it'll look just like a cover-up.
Apologies for being open minded
You're not being 'open-minded'. You're being hilariously biased.
More back of a fag packet stuff. He really is hopeless. He makes TMay look like a consummate leader. I used to think he would be fun to have a piss up in brewery with, but I don't think he could even manage that.
Good luck Tories! You are about to saddle yourselves with an albatross.
Chris Davies can either prove to the satisfaction of his constituents that he is a fit and proper person to be their MP, or he can own his failure. Seems sensible given the comparatively low bar for triggering the byelection.
Low bar? The legal requirement is 10% of those on the electoral roll and in this case nearly 20% actually signed.
But more than 20% backed him at the last General Election didn't they?
Perhaps a fairer way of doing a recall would be to have 2 options on the ballot: I wish to recall, I do not wish to recall, with a recall succeeding if it clears 10% and has more than those saying do not wish to recall.
Let’s see how the conservatives sell that on the doorstep.
I think it was foolish of the Tories to chose him as the candidate again.
But, it is true that, given the munificence of MP expenses fraud, this is a small sum. It is smaller than Lembit had to return for his fucking mammoth plasma screen TV, for example.
Davies has been made an example of. It is a good thing, as we should encourage probity in our MPs.
But it is possible to feel some sympathy for him at a personal level, given what many other MPs have gotten away with.
Let's hope that Jane Dodo does not do a Sarah Olney with her election expenses.
Davies' case is rather different from Opik and the other expenses freeloaders in the he deliberately and knowingly forged an invoice to fool the HoC authorities into paying something which would not otherwise have been paid.
The earlier expenses cases (mostly) concerned payments which were knowingly made by the HoC not because MPs presented false documents or did anything criminal but because the system was too lax and allowed outrageous claims to go through without being questioned. There were a few criminal cases, such as Eliot Morley, but these were a minority.
I agree with all this, though you underestimated the "few criminal cases"
I recollect Morley, Devine, Moran, Chaytor, MacShane and Illsley, all Labour, all convicted, and mostly carted off to jail.
I think Moran cried a lot in court, and was let off a custodial sentence.
Yes and there was also a Tory peer I think, but these are only a few compared to the total number of MPs who were making excessive claims and manipulating the second homes arrangements to their advantage, I guess that was in the 100s?
Then there was the Tory guy who employed his son as a 'researcher' in Westminster while he was a full-time student at Newcastle Uni.
More back of a fag packet stuff. He really is hopeless. He makes TMay look like a consummate leader. I used to think he would be fun to have a piss up in brewery with, but I don't think he could even manage that.
Seriously? More lifting of lower pay out of income tax. Hardly anyone will be paying it at this rate. So where is the money coming from?
If I were a Tory MP backing Hunt, I would be targetting some of his more influential supproters. For Boris to come out with this bluster is one thing, but the others are struggling to keep up. Even Patel - not usually short of a few words - was trying hard to stick t (today's) script.
Chris Davies can either prove to the satisfaction of his constituents that he is a fit and proper person to be their MP, or he can own his failure. Seems sensible given the comparatively low bar for triggering the byelection.
Low bar? The legal requirement is 10% of those on the electoral roll and in this case nearly 20% actually signed.
10 000 signed, the LDs got 12 000 votes in Brecon and Radnor in 2017 so not one 2017 Tory voter may have signed it
And if you believe that... I guess you are a CCHQ Intern on strict rebuttal duty, but most PB commentators a profit seeking realists, so there really is no point... The tanks really are in Baghdad and the Republican Guard has dissolved.
Remind me he was Foreign Sec during the crucial negotiations and his ultra buddy Raab was Brexit Sec.
This is just more tinkerbell brexit.
Why cant he say something along the lines of he will renegotiate with the EU, building on the earlier exploratory negotiations without any of TM's red lines as preconditions but still try and get as close to meeting those lines as we can. It would not include the backstop, and we will get the outline of the plan agreed before October 31st with an exit date before the end of the year.
That would be credible, plausible and is presumably what he is trying to do. It would give him plenty of scope for negotiation with the EU, ERG, Tory remainers, and Labour leavers.
Would it really cost him the election? The alternative is Hunt who does not have a plan either.
His CV is blandishment after blandishment. It is achievement light, other than his academic record. He is best qualified to be a polemicist, or game show host, both of which he is quite good at. He should stick to these, and someone should tell him that misplaced self belief and ego are not adequate substitutes for proper experience and accomplishment.
More back of a fag packet stuff. He really is hopeless. He makes TMay look like a consummate leader. I used to think he would be fun to have a piss up in brewery with, but I don't think he could even manage that.
Good luck Tories! You are about to saddle yourselves with an albatross.
The majority of the Conservative membership don't care. Boris might roll up and spout complete drivel 24/7 and still get elected as leader, which is clearly frustrating for sounder Conservatives including those Tory PBers not on the Boris cheerleader list.
There is a Trumpian level of delusion among Borisian supporters who just cover their ears and shout La La La as Boris La La Land looms ever closer.
Chris Davies got the highest Tory voteshare since the 1960s in Brecon and Radnor though in 2017 so clearly he has a strong personal vote and deserves the chance to stand again.
Had he been jailed like Onasanya it may have been different but he faced a fine and community service instead and has faced his punishment
Why do the Tories think that a convicted fraudster should be their candidate? Are they so short of talent that they cannot find anyone else to stand who does not have a criminal conviction?
Short of talent? May I introduce you to a certain Boris Johnson?
One week give a tax cut for higher earners , then realizes this is a complete vote loser for most of the country and a gift to Labour swivels and now is the champion of the poor ! Bless !
More back of a fag packet stuff. He really is hopeless. He makes TMay look like a consummate leader. I used to think he would be fun to have a piss up in brewery with, but I don't think he could even manage that.
Good luck Tories! You are about to saddle yourselves with an albatross.
The majority of the Conservative membership don't care. Boris might roll up and spout complete drivel 24/7 and still get elected as leader, which is clearly frustrating for sounder Conservatives including those Tory PBers not on the Boris cheerleader list.
There is a Trumpian level of delusion among Borisian supporters who just cover their ears and shout La La La as Boris La La Land looms ever closer.
I just hope there will be a party left to save at the end of it
Chris Davies got the highest Tory voteshare since the 1960s in Brecon and Radnor though in 2017 so clearly he has a strong personal vote and deserves the chance to stand again.
Had he been jailed like Onasanya it may have been different but he faced a fine and community service instead and has faced his punishment
Why do the Tories think that a convicted fraudster should be their candidate? Are they so short of talent that they cannot find anyone else to stand who does not have a criminal conviction?
Short of talent? May I introduce you to a certain Boris Johnson?
More back of a fag packet stuff. He really is hopeless. He makes TMay look like a consummate leader. I used to think he would be fun to have a piss up in brewery with, but I don't think he could even manage that.
Good luck Tories! You are about to saddle yourselves with an albatross.
Not just "ourselves" (though I am becoming unsure as to whether I am one), but also the country and the wider world. Still, Brexit has made us a laughing stock, why not go the full monty and have a PM who is an inept clown and a LoTO who is as thick as a plank?
If only we had a rich royal family who could fund themselves independently instead of choosing a family on benefits.
The Crown Estate (plus the Duchies) dos of course generate hundreds of millions of pounds a year for the Exchequer, plus a substantial increase in capital value.
More back of a fag packet stuff. He really is hopeless. He makes TMay look like a consummate leader. I used to think he would be fun to have a piss up in brewery with, but I don't think he could even manage that.
Good luck Tories! You are about to saddle yourselves with an albatross.
The majority of the Conservative membership don't care. Boris might roll up and spout complete drivel 24/7 and still get elected as leader, which is clearly frustrating for sounder Conservatives including those Tory PBers not on the Boris cheerleader list.
There is a Trumpian level of delusion among Borisian supporters who just cover their ears and shout La La La as Boris La La Land looms ever closer.
I just hope there will be a party left to save at the end of it
If Boris and the loons take over the Conservative Party it would be a political organisation with which I would have nothing in common and hence I would see no particular reason to be a member of it. Nor vote for it in particular, except for the fact that were I not to vote for it I might be enabling a greater ill.
Do I rate an anti-free market capitalist, anti-western, anti-semite in charge of a Labour government as a greater ill than anything Boris can turn the Conservative Party into? Yes. Yes I do.
One week give a tax cut for higher earners , then realizes this is a complete vote loser for most of the country and a gift to Labour swivels and now is the champion of the poor ! Bless !
tbh I think Boris said this in the BBC debate but we were mesmerised by Rory's complete inability to work a chair.
If I were a Tory MP backing Hunt, I would be targetting some of his more influential supproters. For Boris to come out with this bluster is one thing, but the others are struggling to keep up. Even Patel - not usually short of a few words - was trying hard to stick t (today's) script.
Individual ministers are going to be working harder than ever under a Boris premiership. He will be the figurehead and give general direction. And that general direction will be to go sort of in that direction - he'll make Cameron look like a Mayite micromanager.
Mr. B2, there are some good deals available. I got the first three Chronicles of the Black Gate, by Phil Tucker, for just 99p, and that must be the equivalent of a thousand pages or so.
Of course, such great deals often make it very difficult for an author to make a living (although not always. David Weber's first two Honor Harrington e-books were free a short time ago).
If only we had a rich royal family who could fund themselves independently instead of choosing a family on benefits.
The Crown Estate (plus the Duchies) dos of course generate hundreds of millions of pounds a year for the Exchequer, plus a substantial increase in capital value.
If they generate all this money for the Exchequer, they are by extension earning it. All the more reasons why they shouldn't expect the taxpayer to pick up the tab for luxurious living standards. Very bad PR for the Royals
Off topic: any recommendations for a good hotel in Manchester. Going there in a couple of weeks to see son graduate.
Thank you.
Budget?
If you won't spend anytime in the room except sleeping (as they are tiny) I'm starting to use MotelOne and both theirs are more central than the Premier Inn / Travelodges.
Crowne Plaza was OK the last time we stayed there..
Remind me he was Foreign Sec during the crucial negotiations and his ultra buddy Raab was Brexit Sec.
This is just more tinkerbell brexit.
Why cant he say something along the lines of he will renegotiate with the EU, building on the earlier exploratory negotiations without any of TM's red lines as preconditions but still try and get as close to meeting those lines as we can. It would not include the backstop, and we will get the outline of the plan agreed before October 31st with an exit date before the end of the year.
That would be credible, plausible and is presumably what he is trying to do. It would give him plenty of scope for negotiation with the EU, ERG, Tory remainers, and Labour leavers.
Would it really cost him the election? The alternative is Hunt who does not have a plan either.
Because he has created his own red line: 31st October date.
What is just utterly is that this was handed down to us by the dreaded gnomes of Brussels! Boris has only adopted because Raab did and they both want to out-Farage Farage.
More back of a fag packet stuff. He really is hopeless. He makes TMay look like a consummate leader. I used to think he would be fun to have a piss up in brewery with, but I don't think he could even manage that.
Good luck Tories! You are about to saddle yourselves with an albatross.
The majority of the Conservative membership don't care. Boris might roll up and spout complete drivel 24/7 and still get elected as leader, which is clearly frustrating for sounder Conservatives including those Tory PBers not on the Boris cheerleader list.
There is a Trumpian level of delusion among Borisian supporters who just cover their ears and shout La La La as Boris La La Land looms ever closer.
I just hope there will be a party left to save at the end of it
The Tory party has split, it just hasn’t realised.
Chris Davies got the highest Tory voteshare since the 1960s in Brecon and Radnor though in 2017 so clearly he has a strong personal vote and deserves the chance to stand again.
Had he been jailed like Onasanya it may have been different but he faced a fine and community service instead and has faced his punishment
Why do the Tories think that a convicted fraudster should be their candidate? Are they so short of talent that they cannot find anyone else to stand who does not have a criminal conviction?
Short of talent? May I introduce you to a certain Boris Johnson?
I trump your Johnson with a Grayling.
I just about trump your Grayling Top Trump card with a Corbyn (holding Mark Francois in reserve).
If only we had a rich royal family who could fund themselves independently instead of choosing a family on benefits.
The Crown Estate (plus the Duchies) dos of course generate hundreds of millions of pounds a year for the Exchequer, plus a substantial increase in capital value.
If they generate all this money for the Exchequer, they are by extension earning it. All the more reasons why they shouldn't expect the taxpayer to pick up the tab for luxurious living standards. Very bad PR for the Royals
I don't think there's any tab for the taxpayer to keep up. I believe they are now funded out of the profits of the estate only?
The majority of the Conservative membership don't care. Boris might roll up and spout complete drivel 24/7 and still get elected as leader, which is clearly frustrating for sounder Conservatives including those Tory PBers not on the Boris cheerleader list.
There is a Trumpian level of delusion among Borisian supporters who just cover their ears and shout La La La as Boris La La Land looms ever closer.
Your comparison with Trump needs to take cognizance of the fact that Trump won (and broke Jack's ARSE in the process).
Trump won.
I am not a Tory, but I can see that there is a logical argument for the Tory party to vote Boris.
An election is coming.
Even if you don't believe a word Boris says, you may still conclude that he is more likely to win an election than Hunt.
Question: Should BoJo seek a GE immediately on taking office - before a no confidence vote is called - would he get two-thirds of the House of Commons to vote in favour of a GE (as rquired by the FTPA)?
The majority of the Conservative membership don't care. Boris might roll up and spout complete drivel 24/7 and still get elected as leader, which is clearly frustrating for sounder Conservatives including those Tory PBers not on the Boris cheerleader list.
There is a Trumpian level of delusion among Borisian supporters who just cover their ears and shout La La La as Boris La La Land looms ever closer.
Your comparison with Trump needs to take cognizance of the fact that Trump won (and broke Jack's ARSE in the process).
Trump won.
I am not a Tory, but I can see that there is a logical argument for the Tory party to vote Boris.
An election is coming.
Even if you don't believe a word Boris says, you may still conclude that he is more likely to win an election than Hunt.
Yes, but've seen what's happening with Trump. Look at Erdogan in Istanbul!
More back of a fag packet stuff. He really is hopeless. He makes TMay look like a consummate leader. I used to think he would be fun to have a piss up in brewery with, but I don't think he could even manage that.
Good luck Tories! You are about to saddle yourselves with an albatross.
The majority of the Conservative membership don't care. Boris might roll up and spout complete drivel 24/7 and still get elected as leader, which is clearly frustrating for sounder Conservatives including those Tory PBers not on the Boris cheerleader list.
There is a Trumpian level of delusion among Borisian supporters who just cover their ears and shout La La La as Boris La La Land looms ever closer.
I just hope there will be a party left to save at the end of it
There will always be a place for a centre-right political party in the UK. Whether it will be called the Conservative Party is less certain and certainly not something that one would have expected to say after the 2015 election.
Off topic: any recommendations for a good hotel in Manchester. Going there in a couple of weeks to see son graduate.
Thank you.
Budget?
If you won't spend anytime in the room except sleeping (as they are tiny) I'm starting to use MotelOne and both theirs are more central than the Premier Inn / Travelodges.
Crowne Plaza was OK the last time we stayed there..
Budget? The clue is she doesn't want to crash on the boy's floor. Five stars with a spa and Michelin restaurant should hit the spot.
If only we had a rich royal family who could fund themselves independently instead of choosing a family on benefits.
The Crown Estate (plus the Duchies) dos of course generate hundreds of millions of pounds a year for the Exchequer, plus a substantial increase in capital value.
If they generate all this money for the Exchequer, they are by extension earning it. All the more reasons why they shouldn't expect the taxpayer to pick up the tab for luxurious living standards. Very bad PR for the Royals
I don't think there's any tab for the taxpayer to keep up. I believe they are now funded out of the profits of the estate only?
The beeb said this morning that the bill for the £2M renovation of Harry's "cottage" was paid by the taxpayer
If only we had a rich royal family who could fund themselves independently instead of choosing a family on benefits.
The Crown Estate (plus the Duchies) dos of course generate hundreds of millions of pounds a year for the Exchequer, plus a substantial increase in capital value.
If they generate all this money for the Exchequer, they are by extension earning it. All the more reasons why they shouldn't expect the taxpayer to pick up the tab for luxurious living standards. Very bad PR for the Royals
I don't think there's any tab for the taxpayer to keep up. I believe they are now funded out of the profits of the estate only?
The beeb said this morning that the bill for the £2M renovation of Harry's "cottage" was paid by the taxpayer
Might have been over and above the normal amount they get, but still they are a net contributor to the exchequer.
More back of a fag packet stuff. He really is hopeless. He makes TMay look like a consummate leader. I used to think he would be fun to have a piss up in brewery with, but I don't think he could even manage that.
Good luck Tories! You are about to saddle yourselves with an albatross.
The majority of the Conservative membership don't care. Boris might roll up and spout complete drivel 24/7 and still get elected as leader, which is clearly frustrating for sounder Conservatives including those Tory PBers not on the Boris cheerleader list.
There is a Trumpian level of delusion among Borisian supporters who just cover their ears and shout La La La as Boris La La Land looms ever closer.
I just hope there will be a party left to save at the end of it
The Tory party has split, it just hasn’t realised.
I think you are right. The question is where that split leads. I am only keeping my membership so I can vote in the next leadership election after this current farce.
If only we had a rich royal family who could fund themselves independently instead of choosing a family on benefits.
The Crown Estate (plus the Duchies) dos of course generate hundreds of millions of pounds a year for the Exchequer, plus a substantial increase in capital value.
If they generate all this money for the Exchequer, they are by extension earning it. All the more reasons why they shouldn't expect the taxpayer to pick up the tab for luxurious living standards. Very bad PR for the Royals
I don't think there's any tab for the taxpayer to keep up. I believe they are now funded out of the profits of the estate only?
The direct profits of the Duchies are applied to some of the costs of the monarchy, whereas the tax paid from the Duchies, plus the Crown Estate, are I believe remitted to the Treasury and then a contribution to Buckingham Palace and Balmoral and state events is passed back.
If you think of the Crown Estate as an asset of the monarchy, then 'the monarchy' runs at a profit. If you think the Crown Estate and the Duchies are public resources, clearly it runs at a loss. It's sort of immaterial.
If only we had a rich royal family who could fund themselves independently instead of choosing a family on benefits.
The Crown Estate (plus the Duchies) dos of course generate hundreds of millions of pounds a year for the Exchequer, plus a substantial increase in capital value.
If they generate all this money for the Exchequer, they are by extension earning it. All the more reasons why they shouldn't expect the taxpayer to pick up the tab for luxurious living standards. Very bad PR for the Royals
I don't think there's any tab for the taxpayer to keep up. I believe they are now funded out of the profits of the estate only?
The beeb said this morning that the bill for the £2M renovation of Harry's "cottage" was paid by the taxpayer
Might have been over and above the normal amount they get, but still they are a net contributor to the exchequer.
I’m a net contributor to the Exchequer will the government give me a few million to renovate my house?
If only we had a rich royal family who could fund themselves independently instead of choosing a family on benefits.
The Crown Estate (plus the Duchies) dos of course generate hundreds of millions of pounds a year for the Exchequer, plus a substantial increase in capital value.
If they generate all this money for the Exchequer, they are by extension earning it. All the more reasons why they shouldn't expect the taxpayer to pick up the tab for luxurious living standards. Very bad PR for the Royals
I don't think there's any tab for the taxpayer to keep up. I believe they are now funded out of the profits of the estate only?
The beeb said this morning that the bill for the £2M renovation of Harry's "cottage" was paid by the taxpayer
Might have been over and above the normal amount they get, but still they are a net contributor to the exchequer.
I’m a net contributor to the Exchequer will the government give me a few million to renovate my house?
If only we had a rich royal family who could fund themselves independently instead of choosing a family on benefits.
The Crown Estate (plus the Duchies) dos of course generate hundreds of millions of pounds a year for the Exchequer, plus a substantial increase in capital value.
The Crown Estate should be owned by the government. At no point has inheritance tax etc been paid on it.
Off topic: any recommendations for a good hotel in Manchester. Going there in a couple of weeks to see son graduate.
Thank you.
Budget?
If you won't spend anytime in the room except sleeping (as they are tiny) I'm starting to use MotelOne and both theirs are more central than the Premier Inn / Travelodges.
Crowne Plaza was OK the last time we stayed there..
Thank you.
Depending on cost, I might treat myself as such a special outing and I have a weakness for nice hotels, having spent time as a child with my grandmother in the sorts of old-fashioned Swiss hotels that appear in Anita Brookner novels.
Remind me he was Foreign Sec during the crucial negotiations and his ultra buddy Raab was Brexit Sec.
This is just more tinkerbell brexit.
Why cant he say something along the lines of he will renegotiate with the EU, building on the earlier exploratory negotiations without any of TM's red lines as preconditions but still try and get as close to meeting those lines as we can. It would not include the backstop, and we will get the outline of the plan agreed before October 31st with an exit date before the end of the year.
That would be credible, plausible and is presumably what he is trying to do. It would give him plenty of scope for negotiation with the EU, ERG, Tory remainers, and Labour leavers.
Would it really cost him the election? The alternative is Hunt who does not have a plan either.
Because he has created his own red line: 31st October date.
What is just utterly is that this was handed down to us by the dreaded gnomes of Brussels! Boris has only adopted because Raab did and they both want to out-Farage Farage.
The history books will tear this clown to pieces.
Brexit will rank amongst the biggest blunders in British history such as the loss of the American colonies and Charles I's attempt to rule without parliament.
There is a way out of this for Boris; it emerges that his girlfriend was the aggressor and he was being gentlemanly in not revealing so. I have had bust ups where girlfriends have kicked and scratched me, and, had the neighbours had a glass to the wall, they’d have probably heard them say ‘get off me’ when I kept them at arms length
Desperate stuff from the Boris apologists! I wouldn't worry, the Conservative party has been so skilfully infiltrated by Brexit fantasists that he could get his tackle out in front of HM the Queen and they would still vote him in.
I’m not saying that is what happened, just that it would be a good way out for him.
I’m not a Conservative or a Boris supporter. He’s going to be leader of your party, not mine
If he tries to blame the girlfriend isn't there the danger then that she goes public with what she found on his lap top that kicked the whole thing off?
There is a way out of this for Boris; it emerges that his girlfriend was the aggressor and he was being gentlemanly in not revealing so. I have had bust ups where girlfriends have kicked and scratched me, and, had the neighbours had a glass to the wall, they’d have probably heard them say ‘get off me’ when I kept them at arms length
This is getting rather desperate. How would that 'emerge'?
It's a case of 'he-said', 'she-said'. Even if she came out to say: "It was all my fault!", then it's far too late now, and it'll look just like a cover-up.
Well the hypothesis that it was her doing most of the raised voice and crockery smashing action tally with the other neighbours reports (The ones that had the press come to them not the other way round).
Whatever Boris says he'll be pilloried so best just to keep it private as 70% of the public think it should be.
Pretty much agree with that. I don't feel much different about Boris after this than I did before.
There is a way out of this for Boris; it emerges that his girlfriend was the aggressor and he was being gentlemanly in not revealing so. I have had bust ups where girlfriends have kicked and scratched me, and, had the neighbours had a glass to the wall, they’d have probably heard them say ‘get off me’ when I kept them at arms length
This is getting rather desperate. How would that 'emerge'?
It's a case of 'he-said', 'she-said'. Even if she came out to say: "It was all my fault!", then it's far too late now, and it'll look just like a cover-up.
Apologies for being open minded
You're not being 'open-minded'. You're being hilariously biased.
Biased to someone I’m not going to vote for from a party I’m not a member of. 👍🏻
Remind me he was Foreign Sec during the crucial negotiations and his ultra buddy Raab was Brexit Sec.
This is just more tinkerbell brexit.
Why cant he say something along the lines of he will renegotiate with the EU, building on the earlier exploratory negotiations without any of TM's red lines as preconditions but still try and get as close to meeting those lines as we can. It would not include the backstop, and we will get the outline of the plan agreed before October 31st with an exit date before the end of the year.
That would be credible, plausible and is presumably what he is trying to do. It would give him plenty of scope for negotiation with the EU, ERG, Tory remainers, and Labour leavers.
Would it really cost him the election? The alternative is Hunt who does not have a plan either.
Because he has created his own red line: 31st October date.
What is just utterly is that this was handed down to us by the dreaded gnomes of Brussels! Boris has only adopted because Raab did and they both want to out-Farage Farage.
The history books will tear this clown to pieces.
Brexit will rank amongst the biggest blunders in British history such as the loss of the American colonies and Charles I's attempt to rule without parliament.
It is perhaps the only upside of Boris winning. He will need to own the blunder. I hope he ends up with a humiliation that is proportionate to the damage that he has caused British business and our prosperity. Sadly karma is not always born out in real life.
Off topic: any recommendations for a good hotel in Manchester. Going there in a couple of weeks to see son graduate.
Thank you.
Budget?
If you won't spend anytime in the room except sleeping (as they are tiny) I'm starting to use MotelOne and both theirs are more central than the Premier Inn / Travelodges.
Crowne Plaza was OK the last time we stayed there..
Thank you.
Depending on cost, I might treat myself as such a special outing and I have a weakness for nice hotels, having spent time as a child with my grandmother in the sorts of old-fashioned Swiss hotels that appear in Anita Brookner novels.
If you want opulence go for the Midland or the Gotham. Slightly away from the centre there’s the Lowry.
Good hotels a rung below that are the Malmaison, Radisson, Novotel, Crowne Plaza (not the one on Oxford Road.)
There is a way out of this for Boris; it emerges that his girlfriend was the aggressor and he was being gentlemanly in not revealing so. I have had bust ups where girlfriends have kicked and scratched me, and, had the neighbours had a glass to the wall, they’d have probably heard them say ‘get off me’ when I kept them at arms length
Desperate stuff from the Boris apologists! I wouldn't worry, the Conservative party has been so skilfully infiltrated by Brexit fantasists that he could get his tackle out in front of HM the Queen and they would still vote him in.
I’m not saying that is what happened, just that it would be a good way out for him.
I’m not a Conservative or a Boris supporter. He’s going to be leader of your party, not mine
If he tries to blame the girlfriend isn't there the danger then that she goes public with what she found on his lap top that kicked the whole thing off?
I wouldn’t say that he should try to blame her. But look, the kangaroo court has him guilty of things he’s not even accused of, so I won’t try thinking outside of those parameters any longer.
There is a way out of this for Boris; it emerges that his girlfriend was the aggressor and he was being gentlemanly in not revealing so. I have had bust ups where girlfriends have kicked and scratched me, and, had the neighbours had a glass to the wall, they’d have probably heard them say ‘get off me’ when I kept them at arms length
This is getting rather desperate. How would that 'emerge'?
It's a case of 'he-said', 'she-said'. Even if she came out to say: "It was all my fault!", then it's far too late now, and it'll look just like a cover-up.
Apologies for being open minded
You're not being 'open-minded'. You're being hilariously biased.
Biased to someone I’m not going to vote for from a party I’m not a member of. 👍🏻
Hilarious take!
We’ll end this now, can’t have you today
Very weak argument. I could easily be biased in my view of a contest between, say, Tom Watson and Corbyn. I would strongly prefer Watson to Corbyn, even though I am not a member of their party
There is a way out of this for Boris; it emerges that his girlfriend was the aggressor and he was being gentlemanly in not revealing so. I have had bust ups where girlfriends have kicked and scratched me, and, had the neighbours had a glass to the wall, they’d have probably heard them say ‘get off me’ when I kept them at arms length
This is getting rather desperate. How would that 'emerge'?
It's a case of 'he-said', 'she-said'. Even if she came out to say: "It was all my fault!", then it's far too late now, and it'll look just like a cover-up.
Apologies for being open minded
You're not being 'open-minded'. You're being hilariously biased.
Biased to someone I’m not going to vote for from a party I’m not a member of. 👍🏻
Hilarious take!
We’ll end this now, can’t have you today
Yep, biased. Biases don't just have to be based on political parties or affiliations ....
There is a way out of this for Boris; it emerges that his girlfriend was the aggressor and he was being gentlemanly in not revealing so. I have had bust ups where girlfriends have kicked and scratched me, and, had the neighbours had a glass to the wall, they’d have probably heard them say ‘get off me’ when I kept them at arms length
This is getting rather desperate. How would that 'emerge'?
It's a case of 'he-said', 'she-said'. Even if she came out to say: "It was all my fault!", then it's far too late now, and it'll look just like a cover-up.
Well the hypothesis that it was her doing most of the raised voice and crockery smashing action tally with the other neighbours reports (The ones that had the press come to them not the other way round).
Whatever Boris says he'll be pilloried so best just to keep it private as 70% of the public think it should be.
Off topic: any recommendations for a good hotel in Manchester. Going there in a couple of weeks to see son graduate.
Thank you.
Budget?
If you won't spend anytime in the room except sleeping (as they are tiny) I'm starting to use MotelOne and both theirs are more central than the Premier Inn / Travelodges.
Crowne Plaza was OK the last time we stayed there..
Thank you.
Depending on cost, I might treat myself as such a special outing and I have a weakness for nice hotels, having spent time as a child with my grandmother in the sorts of old-fashioned Swiss hotels that appear in Anita Brookner novels.
If you want opulence go for the Midland or the Gotham. Slightly away from the centre there’s the Lowry.
Good hotels a rung below that are the Malmaison, Radisson, Novotel, Crowne Plaza (not the one on Oxford Road.)
I generally stay at the Midland (which I like very much), so I guess I go for opulence!
There is a way out of this for Boris; it emerges that his girlfriend was the aggressor and he was being gentlemanly in not revealing so. I have had bust ups where girlfriends have kicked and scratched me, and, had the neighbours had a glass to the wall, they’d have probably heard them say ‘get off me’ when I kept them at arms length
This is getting rather desperate. How would that 'emerge'?
It's a case of 'he-said', 'she-said'. Even if she came out to say: "It was all my fault!", then it's far too late now, and it'll look just like a cover-up.
Apologies for being open minded
You're not being 'open-minded'. You're being hilariously biased.
Biased to someone I’m not going to vote for from a party I’m not a member of. 👍🏻
Hilarious take!
We’ll end this now, can’t have you today
Yep, biased. Biases don't just have to be based on political parties or affiliations ....
There is a way out of this for Boris; it emerges that his girlfriend was the aggressor and he was being gentlemanly in not revealing so. I have had bust ups where girlfriends have kicked and scratched me, and, had the neighbours had a glass to the wall, they’d have probably heard them say ‘get off me’ when I kept them at arms length
This is getting rather desperate. How would that 'emerge'?
It's a case of 'he-said', 'she-said'. Even if she came out to say: "It was all my fault!", then it's far too late now, and it'll look just like a cover-up.
Apologies for being open minded
You're not being 'open-minded'. You're being hilariously biased.
Biased to someone I’m not going to vote for from a party I’m not a member of. 👍🏻
Hilarious take!
We’ll end this now, can’t have you today
Up to Josias I guess. The only way you can unilaterally end something is to stop posting.
Off topic: any recommendations for a good hotel in Manchester. Going there in a couple of weeks to see son graduate.
Thank you.
Budget?
If you won't spend anytime in the room except sleeping (as they are tiny) I'm starting to use MotelOne and both theirs are more central than the Premier Inn / Travelodges.
Crowne Plaza was OK the last time we stayed there..
Thank you.
Depending on cost, I might treat myself as such a special outing and I have a weakness for nice hotels, having spent time as a child with my grandmother in the sorts of old-fashioned Swiss hotels that appear in Anita Brookner novels.
If you want opulence go for the Midland or the Gotham. Slightly away from the centre there’s the Lowry.
Good hotels a rung below that are the Malmaison, Radisson, Novotel, Crowne Plaza (not the one on Oxford Road.)
I generally stay at the Midland (which I like very much), so I guess I go for opulence!
If I ever get married again I’m getting married in the Midland.
There is a way out of this for Boris; it emerges that his girlfriend was the aggressor and he was being gentlemanly in not revealing so. I have had bust ups where girlfriends have kicked and scratched me, and, had the neighbours had a glass to the wall, they’d have probably heard them say ‘get off me’ when I kept them at arms length
This is getting rather desperate. How would that 'emerge'?
It's a case of 'he-said', 'she-said'. Even if she came out to say: "It was all my fault!", then it's far too late now, and it'll look just like a cover-up.
Apologies for being open minded
You're not being 'open-minded'. You're being hilariously biased.
Biased to someone I’m not going to vote for from a party I’m not a member of. 👍🏻
Hilarious take!
We’ll end this now, can’t have you today
Yep, biased. Biases don't just have to be based on political parties or affiliations ....
They just have to exist in your little mind x
Hmm, irony alert. Brexit fanatic accuses someone else of having a small mind.
Off topic: any recommendations for a good hotel in Manchester. Going there in a couple of weeks to see son graduate.
Thank you.
Budget?
If you won't spend anytime in the room except sleeping (as they are tiny) I'm starting to use MotelOne and both theirs are more central than the Premier Inn / Travelodges.
Crowne Plaza was OK the last time we stayed there..
Thank you.
Depending on cost, I might treat myself as such a special outing and I have a weakness for nice hotels, having spent time as a child with my grandmother in the sorts of old-fashioned Swiss hotels that appear in Anita Brookner novels.
If you want opulence go for the Midland or the Gotham. Slightly away from the centre there’s the Lowry.
Good hotels a rung below that are the Malmaison, Radisson, Novotel, Crowne Plaza (not the one on Oxford Road.)
I generally stay at the Midland (which I like very much), so I guess I go for opulence!
If I ever get married again I’m getting married in the Midland.
If that is a proposal, I am very flattered but I have to decline.
Off topic: any recommendations for a good hotel in Manchester. Going there in a couple of weeks to see son graduate.
Thank you.
Budget?
If you won't spend anytime in the room except sleeping (as they are tiny) I'm starting to use MotelOne and both theirs are more central than the Premier Inn / Travelodges.
Crowne Plaza was OK the last time we stayed there..
Thank you.
Depending on cost, I might treat myself as such a special outing and I have a weakness for nice hotels, having spent time as a child with my grandmother in the sorts of old-fashioned Swiss hotels that appear in Anita Brookner novels.
There is a way out of this for Boris; it emerges that his girlfriend was the aggressor and he was being gentlemanly in not revealing so. I have had bust ups where girlfriends have kicked and scratched me, and, had the neighbours had a glass to the wall, they’d have probably heard them say ‘get off me’ when I kept them at arms length
Desperate stuff from the Boris apologists! I wouldn't worry, the Conservative party has been so skilfully infiltrated by Brexit fantasists that he could get his tackle out in front of HM the Queen and they would still vote him in.
I’m not saying that is what happened, just that it would be a good way out for him.
I’m not a Conservative or a Boris supporter. He’s going to be leader of your party, not mine
If he tries to blame the girlfriend isn't there the danger then that she goes public with what she found on his lap top that kicked the whole thing off?
I wouldn’t say that he should try to blame her. But look, the kangaroo court has him guilty of things he’s not even accused of, so I won’t try thinking outside of those parameters any longer.
I am only interested in whether he can do the job of PM. Based on evidence I would say he can't. The fact I also think he is a dishonest wanker is a side issue.
If he tries to blame the girlfriend isn't there the danger then that she goes public with what she found on his lap top that kicked the whole thing off?
How do you know there was something on his laptop?
Maybe Carrie had just mislaid the computer cable? That can lead to very serious altercations.
When the police investigated Layla & Richard, they were both carted off to jail in connection with assault and breach of the peace. It makes Boris & Carrie sound like a funeral tea party in comparison.
That is brilliant! I wonder if he is saying to Carrie; "look, hitting the iceberg is going to be great. This ship is, er, well unsinkable, and well, if I am Captain we will just get on with it and smash into it on 31st October, and you know what, everything will be fine"
Off topic: any recommendations for a good hotel in Manchester. Going there in a couple of weeks to see son graduate.
Thank you.
Budget?
If you won't spend anytime in the room except sleeping (as they are tiny) I'm starting to use MotelOne and both theirs are more central than the Premier Inn / Travelodges.
Crowne Plaza was OK the last time we stayed there..
Thank you.
Depending on cost, I might treat myself as such a special outing and I have a weakness for nice hotels, having spent time as a child with my grandmother in the sorts of old-fashioned Swiss hotels that appear in Anita Brookner novels.
Hilton Deansgate is in a good spot
It is however a Hilton and I saw that as a Diamond member who is currently on my 45th day of staying in one this year...
Remind me he was Foreign Sec during the crucial negotiations and his ultra buddy Raab was Brexit Sec.
This is just more tinkerbell brexit.
Why cant he say something along the lines of he will renegotiate with the EU, building on the earlier exploratory negotiations without any of TM's red lines as preconditions but still try and get as close to meeting those lines as we can. It would not include the backstop, and we will get the outline of the plan agreed before October 31st with an exit date before the end of the year.
That would be credible, plausible and is presumably what he is trying to do. It would give him plenty of scope for negotiation with the EU, ERG, Tory remainers, and Labour leavers.
Would it really cost him the election? The alternative is Hunt who does not have a plan either.
Because he has created his own red line: 31st October date.
What is just utterly is that this was handed down to us by the dreaded gnomes of Brussels! Boris has only adopted because Raab did and they both want to out-Farage Farage.
The history books will tear this clown to pieces.
Brexit will rank amongst the biggest blunders in British history such as the loss of the American colonies and Charles I's attempt to rule without parliament.
It is perhaps the only upside of Boris winning. He will need to own the blunder. I hope he ends up with a humiliation that is proportionate to the damage that he has caused British business and our prosperity. Sadly karma is not always born out in real life.
No humiliation could possibly be big enough for that. Fortunately though Boris is still quite young so he will have many years in which he will be condemned on all sides for his narcissistic destructiveness. Chamberlain was dead before history buried him in ordure, but Boris (and Cameron for that matter) will suffer that fate whilst they are still living.
Comments
https://www.theguardian.com/politics/2009/may/13/mps-expenses-hazel-blears
Hazel Blears attempted to rebuild her reputation tonight, promising to pay £13,332 in capital gains tax that she had avoided when she sold one of her homes.
Leaked expenses claims revealed Blears declared a flat in Kennington, south London, as her primary residence for tax purposes – thus avoiding capital gains tax on the £45,000 profit she made when she sold the property – while telling the Commons authorities that it was her second home, a designation that enabled her to claim hundreds of pounds in parliamentary expenses.
Whatever Boris says he'll be pilloried so best just to keep it private as 70% of the public think it should be.
I’m not a Conservative or a Boris supporter. He’s going to be leader of your party, not mine
Refuses to recognize the IFS figures on his tax plans.
I guess as First Lord of Treasury he will refuse to recognize the Treasury Red Book as well.
#TotallyUnfitForPM
That would be credible, plausible and is presumably what he is trying to do. It would give him plenty of scope for negotiation with the EU, ERG, Tory remainers, and Labour leavers.
Would it really cost him the election? The alternative is Hunt who does not have a plan either.
The monarchy cost British taxpayers £67m during 2018-19 - a 41% increase on the previous financial year.
https://news.sky.com/story/the-royal-accounts-this-is-why-the-monarchy-cost-41-more-last-year-11748503
Only the 5th of this parliament thus far.... (and only the fourth contested by Cons, Lab, LDs)
There is a Trumpian level of delusion among Borisian supporters who just cover their ears and shout La La La as Boris La La Land looms ever closer.
Apply the benefit cap to these parasites.
One week give a tax cut for higher earners , then realizes this is a complete vote loser for most of the country and a gift to Labour swivels and now is the champion of the poor ! Bless !
MONARCHY = SOCIALISM!
Thank you.
Do I rate an anti-free market capitalist, anti-western, anti-semite in charge of a Labour government as a greater ill than anything Boris can turn the Conservative Party into? Yes. Yes I do.
Of course, such great deals often make it very difficult for an author to make a living (although not always. David Weber's first two Honor Harrington e-books were free a short time ago).
If you won't spend anytime in the room except sleeping (as they are tiny) I'm starting to use MotelOne and both theirs are more central than the Premier Inn / Travelodges.
Crowne Plaza was OK the last time we stayed there..
What is just utterly
The history books will tear this clown to pieces.
Trump won.
I am not a Tory, but I can see that there is a logical argument for the Tory party to vote Boris.
An election is coming.
Even if you don't believe a word Boris says, you may still conclude that he is more likely to win an election than Hunt.
https://twitter.com/AmIRightSir/status/1143450140285517824
https://twitter.com/SebastianEPayne/status/1143450306107400192
If you think of the Crown Estate as an asset of the monarchy, then 'the monarchy' runs at a profit. If you think the Crown Estate and the Duchies are public resources, clearly it runs at a loss. It's sort of immaterial.
Donald trumps Boris.
Depending on cost, I might treat myself as such a special outing and I have a weakness for nice hotels, having spent time as a child with my grandmother in the sorts of old-fashioned Swiss hotels that appear in Anita Brookner novels.
I've got more interest in the police's actions.
Hilarious take!
We’ll end this now, can’t have you today
Good hotels a rung below that are the Malmaison, Radisson, Novotel, Crowne Plaza (not the one on Oxford Road.)
Sorry, I mean I pretty much agree with that,
The only way you can unilaterally end something is to stop posting.
Hard core misogyny right there.
What a shame we have a man like this as president of the US.
Ah well, the clock is ticking.
Maybe Carrie had just mislaid the computer cable? That can lead to very serious altercations.
When the police investigated Layla & Richard, they were both carted off to jail in connection with assault and breach of the peace. It makes Boris & Carrie sound like a funeral tea party in comparison.