Imagine the most Bavarian scene possible, Alpen foothills; locals out in traditional garb, houses with flowered wooden balconies. Sound of a brass band .. That's where I am right now.
I wonder if he is from one of the remaining Orange Lodge families, they still exist in Liverpool but I would have thought that was dying out. He clearly follows most of the DUP line in politics. He probably marches with the pipes and drums to celebrate the battle of the Boyne each year.
When people say they want diversity in politics/life in general, what do they mean?
Yes unless that diversity seeks to prevent others having their diversity.
I think the truth is that people who claim to want a diverse society actually want a conformist society but don’t like to think of themselves as authoritarian. True diversity means accepting that views like those of @Viceroy_of_Orange are part and parcel of society and don’t need to be put under the microscope or corrected. If we all have to think the same, then we aren’t diverse
Excuse my ignorance but is it legal for people heavily involved in this process to bet on the outcome?
Politicians, unlike everyone else, expect to be able to lie to the public for profit without legal consequence. So naturally they would expect to be allowed to insider deal as well.
And in the case of Political Advertising are legally allowed to lie without consequence as well..
I wonder if he is from one of the remaining Orange Lodge families, they still exist in Liverpool but I would have thought that was dying out. He clearly follows most of the DUP line in politics. He probably marches with the pipes and drums to celebrate the battle of the Boyne each year.
When people say they want diversity in politics/life in general, what do they mean?
Yes unless that diversity seeks to prevent others having their diversity.
I think the truth is that people who claim to want a diverse society actually want a conformist society but don’t like to think of themselves as authoritarian. True diversity means accepting that views like those of @Viceroy_of_Orange are part and parcel of society and don’t need to be put under the microscope or corrected. If we all have to think the same, then we aren’t diverse
Viceroy has the right to hold whatever views he wants.
He shouldn't have the right to take liberties away from others.
Is this petition really likely to succeed? It seems to me that this was pretty technical without any of the moral opprobrium of Peterborough.
I'm uncomfortable with recall petitions. If an MP is deemed unfit for for office, because for example a criminal conviction, there should be a process for triggering a by-election. Whether there is a good case for dismissal on grounds of personal conduct or not, it shouldn't be left to the whim of a recall petition IMO.
One purpose of the recall petition is to protect MPs from abuse of the process by the Executive. It's the electorate who decide.
In this way it has some similarities with the jury system, where the ability of a jury to act on its "whims" is an important defence against authoritarianism.
I think recall petitions are confused.
If it's a disciplinary mechanism, in my view this should be a process, as Indeed jury trials are. The decision could be made by a jury but more likely a panel of senior civil servants or perhaps judges, who are working to a set of guidelines. The automatic outcome of any such decision would be a by-election.
If on the other hand recall petitions are a tool of direct democracy there doesn't need to be an implication that the MP has misbehaved, but simply voters decide they want a change and aren't prepared to wait until the next general election to get it.
I wonder if he is from one of the remaining Orange Lodge families, they still exist in Liverpool but I would have thought that was dying out. He clearly follows most of the DUP line in politics. He probably marches with the pipes and drums to celebrate the battle of the Boyne each year.
When people say they want diversity in politics/life in general, what do they mean?
Yes unless that diversity seeks to prevent others having their diversity.
I think the truth is that people who claim to want a diverse society actually want a conformist society but don’t like to think of themselves as authoritarian. True diversity means accepting that views like those of @Viceroy_of_Orange are part and parcel of society and don’t need to be put under the microscope or corrected. If we all have to think the same, then we aren’t diverse
Viceroy has the right to hold whatever views he wants.
He shouldn't have the right to take liberties away from others.
Imagine the most Bavarian scene possible, Alpen foothills; locals out in traditional garb, houses with flowered wooden balconies. Sound of a brass band .. That's where I am right now.
Is this petition really likely to succeed? It seems to me that this was pretty technical without any of the moral opprobrium of Peterborough.
I'm uncomfortable with recall petitions. If an MP is deemed unfit for for office, because for example a criminal conviction, there should be a process for triggering a by-election. Whether there is a good case for dismissal on grounds of personal conduct or not, it shouldn't be left to the whim of a recall petition IMO.
One purpose of the recall petition is to protect MPs from abuse of the process by the Executive. It's the electorate who decide.
In this way it has some similarities with the jury system, where the ability of a jury to act on its "whims" is an important defence against authoritarianism.
I think recall petitions are confused.
If it's a disciplinary mechanism, in my view this should be a process, as Indeed jury trials are. The decision could be made by a jury but more likely a panel of senior civil servants or perhaps judges, who are working to a set of guidelines. The automatic outcome of any such decision would be a by-election.
If on the other hand recall petitions are a tool of direct democracy there doesn't need to be an implication that the MP has misbehaved, but simply voters decide they want a change and aren't prepared to wait until the next general election to get it.
Actually there does need to be an implication that the MP has misbehaved. A petition can only start on limited grounds, this one was due to a conviction in a court of law. So a jury has already been involved (or would have been if he hadn't pled guilty IIRC).
Why would Corbyn want Boris to go into an election as PM when he could ensure Boris isn't?
That's not the question. The question is if Corbyn wants an election or not.
All Boris has to say is we have Confidence in ourselves so will vote against any VONC but if you want an election vote for it. If Corbyn is then too frit to vote for an election he would be destroyed by both his own supporters and his opponents within the Labour Party.
I wonder if he is from one of the remaining Orange Lodge families, they still exist in Liverpool but I would have thought that was dying out. He clearly follows most of the DUP line in politics. He probably marches with the pipes and drums to celebrate the battle of the Boyne each year.
When people say they want diversity in politics/life in general, what do they mean?
Yes unless that diversity seeks to prevent others having their diversity.
I think the truth is that people who claim to want a diverse society actually want a conformist society but don’t like to think of themselves as authoritarian. True diversity means accepting that views like those of @Viceroy_of_Orange are part and parcel of society and don’t need to be put under the microscope or corrected. If we all have to think the same, then we aren’t diverse
Viceroy has the right to hold whatever views he wants.
He shouldn't have the right to take liberties away from others.
He hasn’t got that right, who says he has?
He does. He wants marriage to be illegal for legal relationships he views as immoral.
That ES editorial reads as though GO is playing BB for the lazy, duplicitous, solipsistic git he is - I will be the (eg Northern) power(house) behind the throne is how it seems to have been written.
That ES editorial reads as though GO is playing BB for the lazy, duplicitous, solipsistic git he is - I will be the (eg Northern) power(house) behind the throne is how it seems to have been written.
Imagine the most Bavarian scene possible, Alpen foothills; locals out in traditional garb, houses with flowered wooden balconies. Sound of a brass band .. That's where I am right now.
I wonder if he is from one of the remaining Orange Lodge families, they still exist in Liverpool but I would have thought that was dying out. He clearly follows most of the DUP line in politics. He probably marches with the pipes and drums to celebrate the battle of the Boyne each year.
When people say they want diversity in politics/life in general, what do they mean?
Yes unless that diversity seeks to prevent others having their diversity.
I think the truth is that people who claim to want a diverse society actually want a conformist society but don’t like to think of themselves as authoritarian. True diversity means accepting that views like those of @Viceroy_of_Orange are part and parcel of society and don’t need to be put under the microscope or corrected. If we all have to think the same, then we aren’t diverse
Viceroy has the right to hold whatever views he wants.
He shouldn't have the right to take liberties away from others.
He hasn’t got that right, who says he has?
He does. He wants marriage to be illegal for legal relationships he views as immoral.
He is entitled to want that, but he doesn’t have any right to take liberties away from others
I wonder if he is from one of the remaining Orange Lodge families, they still exist in Liverpool but I would have thought that was dying out. He clearly follows most of the DUP line in politics. He probably marches with the pipes and drums to celebrate the battle of the Boyne each year.
When people say they want diversity in politics/life in general, what do they mean?
Yes unless that diversity seeks to prevent others having their diversity.
I think the truth is that people who claim to want a diverse society actually want a conformist society but don’t like to think of themselves as authoritarian. True diversity means accepting that views like those of @Viceroy_of_Orange are part and parcel of society and don’t need to be put under the microscope or corrected. If we all have to think the same, then we aren’t diverse
Viceroy has the right to hold whatever views he wants.
He shouldn't have the right to take liberties away from others.
He hasn’t got that right, who says he has?
He does. He wants marriage to be illegal for legal relationships he views as immoral.
He is entitled to want that, but he doesn’t have any right to take liberties away from others
That was my point. But he wants the law changed to take away those liberties.
10 to noon: 4th ballot 1pm: result on 1 o'clock news 3.30 to 5.30: 5th ballot (if needed!!) 6pm: result on 6 o'clock news (note only half the time for counting. Tories love BBC News!)
The Standard endorses Boris, though with this snark: "Mr Johnson may be loose with words when it comes to the fates of others but never when it comes to his own."
I wonder if he is from one of the remaining Orange Lodge families, they still exist in Liverpool but I would have thought that was dying out. He clearly follows most of the DUP line in politics. He probably marches with the pipes and drums to celebrate the battle of the Boyne each year.
When people say they want diversity in politics/life in general, what do they mean?
Yes unless that diversity seeks to prevent others having their diversity.
I think the truth is that people who claim to want a diverse society actually want a conformist society but don’t like to think of themselves as authoritarian. True diversity means accepting that views like those of @Viceroy_of_Orange are part and parcel of society and don’t need to be put under the microscope or corrected. If we all have to think the same, then we aren’t diverse
Viceroy has the right to hold whatever views he wants.
He shouldn't have the right to take liberties away from others.
He hasn’t got that right, who says he has?
He does. He wants marriage to be illegal for legal relationships he views as immoral.
He is entitled to want that, but he doesn’t have any right to take liberties away from others
That was my point. But he wants the law changed to take away those liberties.
I’m getting into an argument about a subject I don’t care much about here, but I’d say he is entitled to want the law changed too. Diversity means diversity of opinions, not gay, straight, black, white, Remain, Leave people all having the same opinion.
10 to noon: 4th ballot 1pm: result on 1 o'clock news 3.30 to 5.30: 5th ballot (if needed!!) 6pm: result on 6 o'clock news (note only half the time for counting. Tories love BBC News!)
Actually there does need to be an implication that the MP has misbehaved. A petition can only start on limited grounds, this one was due to a conviction in a court of law. So a jury has already been involved (or would have been if he hadn't pled guilty IIRC).
Yes, it'd be total chaos if all MPs could be recalled on a whim at any time - we'd have hundreds of recall petitions running at any one moment.
Imagine the most Bavarian scene possible, Alpen foothills; locals out in traditional garb, houses with flowered wooden balconies. Sound of a brass band .. That's where I am right now.
That ES editorial reads as though GO is playing BB for the lazy, duplicitous, solipsistic git he is - I will be the (eg Northern) power(house) behind the throne is how it seems to have been written.
Imagine the most Bavarian scene possible, Alpen foothills; locals out in traditional garb, houses with flowered wooden balconies. Sound of a brass band .. That's where I am right now.
Thanks to all for your supportive comments earlier. They are appreciated.
Just read your post about it. Very very sorry to hear that must have been extremely distressing. Don't be surprised if it stays with you for a bit. Talking is good!
Imagine the most Bavarian scene possible, Alpen foothills; locals out in traditional garb, houses with flowered wooden balconies. Sound of a brass band .. That's where I am right now.
Is this petition really likely to succeed? It seems to me that this was pretty technical without any of the moral opprobrium of Peterborough.
I'm uncomfortable with recall petitions. If an MP is deemed unfit for for office, because for example a criminal conviction, there should be a process for triggering a by-election. Whether there is a good case for dismissal on grounds of personal conduct or not, it shouldn't be left to the whim of a recall petition IMO.
One purpose of the recall petition is to protect MPs from abuse of the process by the Executive. It's the electorate who decide.
In this way it has some similarities with the jury system, where the ability of a jury to act on its "whims" is an important defence against authoritarianism.
I think recall petitions are confused.
If it's a disciplinary mechanism, in my view this should be a process, as Indeed jury trials are. The decision could be made by a jury but more likely a panel of senior civil servants or perhaps judges, who are working to a set of guidelines. The automatic outcome of any such decision would be a by-election.
If on the other hand recall petitions are a tool of direct democracy there doesn't need to be an implication that the MP has misbehaved, but simply voters decide they want a change and aren't prepared to wait until the next general election to get it.
Actually there does need to be an implication that the MP has misbehaved. A petition can only start on limited grounds, this one was due to a conviction in a court of law. So a jury has already been involved (or would have been if he hadn't pled guilty IIRC).
My point is that if the issue is serious enough to trigger a recall petition, you should go straight to a by-election. If there needs to be an element of judgment, signers of petitions aren't the best placed people to make that judgment.
10 to noon: 4th ballot 1pm: result on 1 o'clock news 3.30 to 5.30: 5th ballot (if needed!!) 6pm: result on 6 o'clock news (note only half the time for counting. Tories love BBC News!)
Tories [HEART] BBC - Always have!
Doubt it after last night. The six oclock news managed to miss the actual announcement. Running a VT instead and cutting back to the room just as the chair was finishing off.
Re the below, I will simply add this. Freedom of Speech is a curious paradox. Or, rather, the paradox is that in order to protect freedom we sometimes have to curtail it. So the paradigm that you can hold whatever view you want is not correct. Or, rather, you may think it to yourself but the moment you espouse it you come under the norms of wider society.
See, thing is, we know that to be true if someone suggests you go and kill an MP. Or that it's fine for a teacher to have sex with an 11 year old pupil. Or to lynch a black person. So for incitement to violence, paedophilia, or racial hatred we already have in place checks to the freedom of speech. And thank goodness we do.
So, no, you can't just announce whatever hate fills your head. You can't act on them. And you can't incite others to.
Thanks to all for your supportive comments earlier. They are appreciated.
Just read your post about it. Very very sorry to hear that must have been extremely distressing. Don't be surprised if it stays with you for a bit. Talking is good!
+1. I know I disagree vehemently with Justin on some topics, but that must have been a horrid experience. I hope the effects don't linger with him, and that the scum are caught and get an appropriate sentence.
I wonder if he is from one of the remaining Orange Lodge families, they still exist in Liverpool but I would have thought that was dying out. He clearly follows most of the DUP line in politics. He probably marches with the pipes and drums to celebrate the battle of the Boyne each year.
When people say they want diversity in politics/life in general, what do they mean?
Yes unless that diversity seeks to prevent others having their diversity.
I think the truth is that people who claim to want a diverse society actually want a conformist society but don’t like to think of themselves as authoritarian. True diversity means accepting that views like those of @Viceroy_of_Orange are part and parcel of society and don’t need to be put under the microscope or corrected. If we all have to think the same, then we aren’t diverse
Viceroy has the right to hold whatever views he wants.
He shouldn't have the right to take liberties away from others.
He hasn’t got that right, who says he has?
He does. He wants marriage to be illegal for legal relationships he views as immoral.
He is entitled to want that, but he doesn’t have any right to take liberties away from others
That was my point. But he wants the law changed to take away those liberties.
I’m getting into an argument about a subject I don’t care much about here, but I’d say he is entitled to want the law changed too. Diversity means diversity of opinions, not gay, straight, black, white, Remain, Leave people all having the same opinion.
That ES editorial reads as though GO is playing BB for the lazy, duplicitous, solipsistic git he is - I will be the (eg Northern) power(house) behind the throne is how it seems to have been written.
In a very thin market you can get £13 on at 18s Hunt to get fewest votes. Remember that you are betting on whether Boris's team rigs the ballot, and if so, for whom. 5.7 Gove and 1.16 Saj. I'd not recommend taking the 5.9 Boris! Presumably the layer hopes to trap people who think they are backing him to win.
Re the below, I will simply add this. Freedom of Speech is a curious paradox. Or, rather, the paradox is that in order to protect freedom we sometimes have to curtail it. So the paradigm that you can hold whatever view you want is not correct. Or, rather, you may think it to yourself but the moment you espouse it you come under the norms of wider society.
See, thing is, we know that to be true if someone suggests you go and kill an MP. Or that it's fine for a teacher to have sex with an 11 year old pupil. Or to lynch a black person. So for incitement to violence, paedophilia, or racial hatred we already have in place checks to the freedom of speech. And thank goodness we do.
So, no, you can't just announce whatever hate fills your head. You can't act on them. And you can't incite others to.
On that issue, IMHO, the threshold is whether someone is inciting another to commit a crime.
Someone should be allowed to argue that there should be no age of consent, for example, but encouraging someone to rape an 11 year old should be a crime.
Imagine the most Bavarian scene possible, Alpen foothills; locals out in traditional garb, houses with flowered wooden balconies. Sound of a brass band .. That's where I am right now.
Imagine the most Bavarian scene possible, Alpen foothills; locals out in traditional garb, houses with flowered wooden balconies. Sound of a brass band .. That's where I am right now.
10 to noon: 4th ballot 1pm: result on 1 o'clock news 3.30 to 5.30: 5th ballot (if needed!!) 6pm: result on 6 o'clock news (note only half the time for counting. Tories love BBC News!)
Tories [HEART] BBC - Always have!
Doubt it after last night. The six oclock news managed to miss the actual announcement. Running a VT instead and cutting back to the room just as the chair was finishing off.
That will teach the 1922 not to change the returning officer making the announcement. The director would have been looking for Cheryl to stand up.
I have a nasty feeling that there will be some major tactical voting this morning and this afternoon.
The only amusing side of that would be that it would serve Michael Gove (and Sarah) right. But someone should certainly turn the heat up on Boris and Gove is almost certainly the one who could do that. As Boris' supporters realise.
I wonder if he is from one of the remaining Orange Lodge families, they still exist in Liverpool but I would have thought that was dying out. He clearly follows most of the DUP line in politics. He probably marches with the pipes and drums to celebrate the battle of the Boyne each year.
When people say they want diversity in politics/life in general, what do they mean?
Yes unless that diversity seeks to prevent others having their diversity.
I think the truth is that people who claim to want a diverse society actually want a conformist society but don’t like to think of themselves as authoritarian. True diversity means accepting that views like those of @Viceroy_of_Orange are part and parcel of society and don’t need to be put under the microscope or corrected. If we all have to think the same, then we aren’t diverse
Viceroy has the right to hold whatever views he wants.
He shouldn't have the right to take liberties away from others.
He hasn’t got that right, who says he has?
He does. He wants marriage to be illegal for legal relationships he views as immoral.
He is entitled to want that, but he doesn’t have any right to take liberties away from others
That was my point. But he wants the law changed to take away those liberties.
I’m getting into an argument about a subject I don’t care much about here, but I’d say he is entitled to want the law changed too. Diversity means diversity of opinions, not gay, straight, black, white, Remain, Leave people all having the same opinion.
Diversity of opinion yes.
Diversity of rights no. If I as a Dawkins style atheist say I think organised religion is immoral and that marriage between two religious people should be illegal then am I entitled to get the law changed to reflect that?
Tyranny of the majority is not ok. Taking away the liberties of others is not acceptable.
Re the below, I will simply add this. Freedom of Speech is a curious paradox. Or, rather, the paradox is that in order to protect freedom we sometimes have to curtail it. So the paradigm that you can hold whatever view you want is not correct. Or, rather, you may think it to yourself but the moment you espouse it you come under the norms of wider society.
See, thing is, we know that to be true if someone suggests you go and kill an MP. Or that it's fine for a teacher to have sex with an 11 year old pupil. Or to lynch a black person. So for incitement to violence, paedophilia, or racial hatred we already have in place checks to the freedom of speech. And thank goodness we do.
So, no, you can't just announce whatever hate fills your head. You can't act on them. And you can't incite others to.
On that issue, IMHO, the threshold is whether someone is inciting another to commit a crime.
Someone should be allowed to argue that there should be no age of consent, for example, but encouraging someone to rape an 11 year old should be a crime.
When people say they want diversity in politics/life in general, what do they mean?
Yes unless that diversity seeks to prevent others having their diversity.
I
Viceroy has the right to hold whatever views he wants.
He shouldn't have the right to take liberties away from others.
He hasn’t got that right, who says he has?
He does. He wants marriage to be illegal for legal relationships he views as immoral.
He is entitled to want that, but he doesn’t have any right to take liberties away from others
That was my point. But he wants the law changed to take away those liberties.
I’m getting into an argument about a subject I don’t care much about here, but I’d say he is entitled to want the law changed too. Diversity means diversity of opinions, not gay, straight, black, white, Remain, Leave people all having the same opinion.
Tyranny of the majority is not ok. Taking away the liberties of others is not acceptable.
This is from the person who is happy to the see the 'troubles' (intimidation, knee-capping, murder, hatred etc) return to Northern Ireland as long as he loses his backstop.
Thanks to all for your supportive comments earlier. They are appreciated.
It's a horrible thing to be attacked, Justin. The violation stays after the immediate fear and pain goes. Victim support charities have materials and other support.
I hope you recover soon. We all have a right to walk safely and without fear in public spaces.
When people say they want diversity in politics/life in general, what do they mean?
Yes unless that diversity seeks to prevent others having their diversity.
I
Viceroy has the right to hold whatever views he wants.
He shouldn't have the right to take liberties away from others.
He hasn’t got that right, who says he has?
He does. He wants marriage to be illegal for legal relationships he views as immoral.
He is entitled to want that, but he doesn’t have any right to take liberties away from others
That was my point. But he wants the law changed to take away those liberties.
I’m getting into an argument about a subject I don’t care much about here, but I’d say he is entitled to want the law changed too. Diversity means diversity of opinions, not gay, straight, black, white, Remain, Leave people all having the same opinion.
Tyranny of the majority is not ok. Taking away the liberties of others is not acceptable.
This is from the person who is happy to the see the 'troubles' (intimidation, knee-capping, murder, hatred etc) return to Northern Ireland as long as he loses his backstop.
Yes for the EXACT same reason.
The risk of violence is bad. The taking away of fundamental liberties (the right to elect your government) is worse.
I am a classical liberal. The backstop is illiberal.
That ES editorial reads as though GO is playing BB for the lazy, duplicitous, solipsistic git he is - I will be the (eg Northern) power(house) behind the throne is how it seems to have been written.
When people say they want diversity in politics/life in general, what do they mean?
Yes unless that diversity seeks to prevent others having their diversity.
I
Viceroy has the right to hold whatever views he wants.
He shouldn't have the right to take liberties away from others.
He hasn’t got that right, who says he has?
He does. He wants marriage to be illegal for legal relationships he views as immoral.
He is entitled to want that, but he doesn’t have any right to take liberties away from others
That was my point. But he wants the law changed to take away those liberties.
I’m getting into an argument about a subject I don’t care much about here, but I’d say he is entitled to want the law changed too. Diversity means diversity of opinions, not gay, straight, black, white, Remain, Leave people all having the same opinion.
Tyranny of the majority is not ok. Taking away the liberties of others is not acceptable.
This is from the person who is happy to the see the 'troubles' (intimidation, knee-capping, murder, hatred etc) return to Northern Ireland as long as he loses his backstop.
The responsibility for resorting to murder would lie with the murderers, in that situation, not with @Philip Thompson
The Standard endorses Boris, though with this snark: "Mr Johnson may be loose with words when it comes to the fates of others but never when it comes to his own."
Imagine the most Bavarian scene possible, Alpen foothills; locals out in traditional garb, houses with flowered wooden balconies. Sound of a brass band .. That's where I am right now.
When people say they want diversity in politics/life in general, what do they mean?
Yes unless that diversity seeks to prevent others having their diversity.
I
Viceroy has the right to hold whatever views he wants.
He shouldn't have the right to take liberties away from others.
He hasn’t got that right, who says he has?
He does. He wants marriage to be illegal for legal relationships he views as immoral.
He is entitled to want that, but he doesn’t have any right to take liberties away from others
That was my point. But he wants the law changed to take away those liberties.
I’m getting into an argument about a subject I don’t care much about here, but I’d say he is entitled to want the law changed too. Diversity means diversity of opinions, not gay, straight, black, white, Remain, Leave people all having the same opinion.
Tyranny of the majority is not ok. Taking away the liberties of others is not acceptable.
This is from the person who is happy to the see the 'troubles' (intimidation, knee-capping, murder, hatred etc) return to Northern Ireland as long as he loses his backstop.
The responsibility for resorting to murder would lie with the murderers, in that situation, not with @Philip Thompson
Imagine the most Bavarian scene possible, Alpen foothills; locals out in traditional garb, houses with flowered wooden balconies. Sound of a brass band .. That's where I am right now.
Imagine the most Bavarian scene possible, Alpen foothills; locals out in traditional garb, houses with flowered wooden balconies. Sound of a brass band .. That's where I am right now.
Thanks to all for your supportive comments earlier. They are appreciated.
It's a horrible thing to be attacked, Justin. The violation stays after the immediate fear and pain goes. Victim support charities have materials and other support.
I hope you recover soon. We all have a right to walk safely and without fear in public spaces.
I was mugged a couple of decades ago on a train by two guys with a knife.
It is a very disturbing experience, and for a while it feels like one that will be life-changing.
Thankfully, in my case, the effect faded fairly quickly, I hope the same will be true for Justin.
The Standard endorses Boris, though with this snark: "Mr Johnson may be loose with words when it comes to the fates of others but never when it comes to his own."
Imagine the most Bavarian scene possible, Alpen foothills; locals out in traditional garb, houses with flowered wooden balconies. Sound of a brass band .. That's where I am right now.
The Standard endorses Boris, though with this snark: "Mr Johnson may be loose with words when it comes to the fates of others but never when it comes to his own."
It's a weird editorial. It's as if Osborne has been taken hostage by Johnson and wants to get a coded message to the outside world, without having parts of his body chopped off by his kidnappers.
This back stop. I don't understand all the fuss about it. Apparently there is a technological solution to the Irish border that means we won't need one. Gove et al keep talking about it. So with technology there will be no border and thus no back stop.
So why are the people who insist technology is the fix insist the back stop must go? Is it because they know they are lying about the technology solution?
Imagine the most Bavarian scene possible, Alpen foothills; locals out in traditional garb, houses with flowered wooden balconies. Sound of a brass band .. That's where I am right now.
Schutzenfest - theyll all be getting hammered for the next 5 days
More than at Oktoberfest?
Oktoberfest is for tourists
The real hammerings happen in the towns and villages over the summer and the big Rhineland Cities in the run up to Lent.
Well as a good Muslim boy Oktoberfest was wasted on me.
I'm off to Stuttgart next month, any places I should visit?
depends what you like and how long you are staying
the centre still has some old bits we didnt blow the crap out of and there are lots of museums
but if you have time there are better things outside the city within about an hours drive - Black Forest, Spa towns, Rothenburg
Four days and cheers.
Good to know that the best bit of Stuttgart seems to be leaving it!
Think of Dungannon with lots of car factories
I'm off to Belfast next March, my friend is getting married there, she tells me his side of the family are evangelical Prods, so we should get on fine.
This back stop. I don't understand all the fuss about it. Apparently there is a technological solution to the Irish border that means we won't need one. Gove et al keep talking about it. So with technology there will be no border and thus no back stop.
So why are the people who insist technology is the fix insist the back stop must go? Is it because they know they are lying about the technology solution?
Sir Hugo Drax was the great-grandfather of the current MP for South Dorset. The family kept a low profile after he tried to explode a nuclear weapon over London.
When people say they want diversity in politics/life in general, what do they mean?
Yes unless that diversity seeks to prevent others having their diversity.
I
Viceroy has the right to hold whatever views he wants.
He shouldn't have the right to take liberties away from others.
He hasn’t got that right, who says he has?
He does. He wants marriage to be illegal for legal relationships he views as immoral.
He is entitled to want that, but he doesn’t have any right to take liberties away from others
That was my point. But he wants the law changed to take away those liberties.
I’m getting into an argument about a subject I don’t care much about here, but I’d say he is entitled to want the law changed too. Diversity means diversity of opinions, not gay, straight, black, white, Remain, Leave people all having the same opinion.
Tyranny of the majority is not ok. Taking away the liberties of others is not acceptable.
This is from the person who is happy to the see the 'troubles' (intimidation, knee-capping, murder, hatred etc) return to Northern Ireland as long as he loses his backstop.
The responsibility for resorting to murder would lie with the murderers, in that situation, not with @Philip Thompson
Couldn't happen anyway, because now they are all Men of Peace who have put their weapons beyond use...
Imagine the most Bavarian scene possible, Alpen foothills; locals out in traditional garb, houses with flowered wooden balconies. Sound of a brass band .. That's where I am right now.
Schutzenfest - theyll all be getting hammered for the next 5 days
More than at Oktoberfest?
Oktoberfest is for tourists
The real hammerings happen in the towns and villages over the summer and the big Rhineland Cities in the run up to Lent.
Well as a good Muslim boy Oktoberfest was wasted on me.
I'm off to Stuttgart next month, any places I should visit?
depends what you like and how long you are staying
the centre still has some old bits we didnt blow the crap out of and there are lots of museums
but if you have time there are better things outside the city within about an hours drive - Black Forest, Spa towns, Rothenburg
Four days and cheers.
Good to know that the best bit of Stuttgart seems to be leaving it!
Think of Dungannon with lots of car factories
I'm off to Belfast next March, my friend is getting married there, she tells me his side of the family are evangelical Prods, so we should get on fine.
lol
it could well be a no alcohol affair !
if you get the chance do Titanic and Cathedral Quarter or Hillsborough Castle just outside Belfast
Her Maj has just spent some serious cash doing the place up
Imagine the most Bavarian scene possible, Alpen foothills; locals out in traditional garb, houses with flowered wooden balconies. Sound of a brass band .. That's where I am right now.
Schutzenfest - theyll all be getting hammered for the next 5 days
More than at Oktoberfest?
Oktoberfest is for tourists
The real hammerings happen in the towns and villages over the summer and the big Rhineland Cities in the run up to Lent.
Well as a good Muslim boy Oktoberfest was wasted on me.
I'm off to Stuttgart next month, any places I should visit?
depends what you like and how long you are staying
the centre still has some old bits we didnt blow the crap out of and there are lots of museums
but if you have time there are better things outside the city within about an hours drive - Black Forest, Spa towns, Rothenburg
Four days and cheers.
Good to know that the best bit of Stuttgart seems to be leaving it!
Think of Dungannon with lots of car factories
I'm off to Belfast next March, my friend is getting married there, she tells me his side of the family are evangelical Prods, so we should get on fine.
One of my nieces married someone from a Prod family. At some point after the engagement but before the wedding it was discovered that she wasn't a cradle atheist, but had been 'born' a Catholic. There was a certain amount of anguish.
Imagine the most Bavarian scene possible, Alpen foothills; locals out in traditional garb, houses with flowered wooden balconies. Sound of a brass band .. That's where I am right now.
Schutzenfest - theyll all be getting hammered for the next 5 days
More than at Oktoberfest?
Oktoberfest is for tourists
The real hammerings happen in the towns and villages over the summer and the big Rhineland Cities in the run up to Lent.
Well as a good Muslim boy Oktoberfest was wasted on me.
I'm off to Stuttgart next month, any places I should visit?
depends what you like and how long you are staying
the centre still has some old bits we didnt blow the crap out of and there are lots of museums
but if you have time there are better things outside the city within about an hours drive - Black Forest, Spa towns, Rothenburg
Four days and cheers.
Good to know that the best bit of Stuttgart seems to be leaving it!
Think of Dungannon with lots of car factories
I'm off to Belfast next March, my friend is getting married there, she tells me his side of the family are evangelical Prods, so we should get on fine.
lol
it could well be a no alcohol affair !
if you get the chance do Titanic and Cathedral Quarter or Hillsborough Castle just outside Belfast
Her Maj has just spent some serious cash doing the place up
Imagine the most Bavarian scene possible, Alpen foothills; locals out in traditional garb, houses with flowered wooden balconies. Sound of a brass band .. That's where I am right now.
Schutzenfest - theyll all be getting hammered for the next 5 days
More than at Oktoberfest?
Oktoberfest is for tourists
The real hammerings happen in the towns and villages over the summer and the big Rhineland Cities in the run up to Lent.
Well as a good Muslim boy Oktoberfest was wasted on me.
I'm off to Stuttgart next month, any places I should visit?
depends what you like and how long you are staying
the centre still has some old bits we didnt blow the crap out of and there are lots of museums
but if you have time there are better things outside the city within about an hours drive - Black Forest, Spa towns, Rothenburg
Four days and cheers.
Good to know that the best bit of Stuttgart seems to be leaving it!
Think of Dungannon with lots of car factories
I loved Stuttgart when I worked there for over a year in the eighties. The Staatsgalerie is worth visiting for the architecture as well as the art. It's a Spa town, I liked Das Leuze best for a swim. There's the Mercedes factory at UnterTurkheim and Porsche at Zuffenhausen if you like cars. There's a long park parallel to the main shopping street and beyond which includes the Opera House. Sorry if the info is out of date!
Imagine the most Bavarian scene possible, Alpen foothills; locals out in traditional garb, houses with flowered wooden balconies. Sound of a brass band .. That's where I am right now.
Schutzenfest - theyll all be getting hammered for the next 5 days
More than at Oktoberfest?
Oktoberfest is for tourists
The real hammerings happen in the towns and villages over the summer and the big Rhineland Cities in the run up to Lent.
Well as a good Muslim boy Oktoberfest was wasted on me.
I'm off to Stuttgart next month, any places I should visit?
depends what you like and how long you are staying
the centre still has some old bits we didnt blow the crap out of and there are lots of museums
but if you have time there are better things outside the city within about an hours drive - Black Forest, Spa towns, Rothenburg
Four days and cheers.
Good to know that the best bit of Stuttgart seems to be leaving it!
Think of Dungannon with lots of car factories
I'm off to Belfast next March, my friend is getting married there, she tells me his side of the family are evangelical Prods, so we should get on fine.
lol
it could well be a no alcohol affair !
if you get the chance do Titanic and Cathedral Quarter or Hillsborough Castle just outside Belfast
Her Maj has just spent some serious cash doing the place up
That ES editorial reads as though GO is playing BB for the lazy, duplicitous, solipsistic git he is - I will be the (eg Northern) power(house) behind the throne is how it seems to have been written.
He does. He wants marriage to be illegal for legal relationships he views as immoral.
The law already discriminates between relationship types, that is why marriage between relatives/marriage between more than two people is illegal.
No. Incest is illegal due to birth defects etc which causes harm, not due to morals.
Isn't the common retort amongst those who support gay marriage that marriage isn't just about procreation? So why are you using it now?
Incest is illegal full stop. With or without marriage. You are comparing an illegal relationship for a legal one for some bizarre reason to justify trying to enforce your "morals" as law.
I wonder if he is from one of the remaining Orange Lodge families, they still exist in Liverpool but I would have thought that was dying out. He clearly follows most of the DUP line in politics. He probably marches with the pipes and drums to celebrate the battle of the Boyne each year.
When people say they want diversity in politics/life in general, what do they mean?
Yes unless that diversity seeks to prevent others having their diversity.
I think the truth is that people who claim to want a diverse society actually want a conformist society but don’t like to think of themselves as authoritarian. True diversity means accepting that views like those of @Viceroy_of_Orange are part and parcel of society and don’t need to be put under the microscope or corrected. If we all have to think the same, then we aren’t diverse
Viceroy has the right to hold whatever views he wants.
He shouldn't have the right to take liberties away from others.
He hasn’t got that right, who says he has?
He does. He wants marriage to be illegal for legal relationships he views as immoral.
He is entitled to want that, but he doesn’t have any right to take liberties away from others
That was my point. But he wants the law changed to take away those liberties.
I’m getting into an argument about a subject I don’t care much about here, but I’d say he is entitled to want the law changed too. Diversity means diversity of opinions, not gay, straight, black, white, Remain, Leave people all having the same opinion.
Diversity of opinion yes.
Diversity of rights no. If I as a Dawkins style atheist say I think organised religion is immoral and that marriage between two religious people should be illegal then am I entitled to get the law changed to reflect that?
Tyranny of the majority is not ok. Taking away the liberties of others is not acceptable.
People can campaign to get the law changed for whatever they want in my opinion. I don’t see what you mean by ‘entitled’. No one is entitled to change any law
Imagine the most Bavarian scene possible, Alpen foothills; locals out in traditional garb, houses with flowered wooden balconies. Sound of a brass band .. That's where I am right now.
Schutzenfest - theyll all be getting hammered for the next 5 days
More than at Oktoberfest?
Oktoberfest is for tourists
The real hammerings happen in the towns and villages over the summer and the big Rhineland Cities in the run up to Lent.
Well as a good Muslim boy Oktoberfest was wasted on me.
I'm off to Stuttgart next month, any places I should visit?
depends what you like and how long you are staying
the centre still has some old bits we didnt blow the crap out of and there are lots of museums
but if you have time there are better things outside the city within about an hours drive - Black Forest, Spa towns, Rothenburg
Four days and cheers.
Good to know that the best bit of Stuttgart seems to be leaving it!
Think of Dungannon with lots of car factories
I loved Stuttgart when I worked there for over a year in the eighties. The Staatsgalerie is worth visiting for the architecture as well as the art. It's a Spa town, I liked Das Leuze best for a swim. There's the Mercedes factory at UnterTurkheim and Porsche at Zuffenhausen if you like cars. There's a long park parallel to the main shopping street and beyond which includes the Opera House. Sorry if the info is out of date!
No not at all
personally I prefer the country to the City.
There are lots of things to do in Stuttgart, but being a yokel I appreciated the surrounding countryside more
Comments
hes just recovering from a Tursday to Tuesday town binge last weekend
He shouldn't have the right to take liberties away from others.
Not saying I like curries more than is possibly good for me or anything......
If it's a disciplinary mechanism, in my view this should be a process, as Indeed jury trials are. The decision could be made by a jury but more likely a panel of senior civil servants or perhaps judges, who are working to a set of guidelines. The automatic outcome of any such decision would be a by-election.
If on the other hand recall petitions are a tool of direct democracy there doesn't need to be an implication that the MP has misbehaved, but simply voters decide they want a change and aren't prepared to wait until the next general election to get it.
The real hammerings happen in the towns and villages over the summer and the big Rhineland Cities in the run up to Lent.
Just getting in touch with my pedantic side, really.
Result: 1pm
Voting: 3:30pm to 5:30pm
Result: 6pm
I'm off to Stuttgart next month, any places I should visit?
Then 3pm to 5pm voting result 6pm
10 to noon: 4th ballot
1pm: result on 1 o'clock news
3.30 to 5.30: 5th ballot (if needed!!)
6pm: result on 6 o'clock news (note only half the time for counting. Tories love BBC News!)
https://www.standard.co.uk/comment/comment/evening-standard-comment-we-back-boris-as-the-pm-to-turn-britain-around-a4171816.html
I don't believe for a moment that the Brexit Party will help Boris. After everything that has happened they will go for the win in B&R.
It should be a LibDem gain either way. At least, I 'think' so.
As an aside, I wonder why the Alpine countries, and regions are generally very right wing.
the centre still has some old bits we didnt blow the crap out of and there are lots of museums
but if you have time there are better things outside the city within about an hours drive - Black Forest, Spa towns, Rothenburg
See, thing is, we know that to be true if someone suggests you go and kill an MP. Or that it's fine for a teacher to have sex with an 11 year old pupil. Or to lynch a black person. So for incitement to violence, paedophilia, or racial hatred we already have in place checks to the freedom of speech. And thank goodness we do.
So, no, you can't just announce whatever hate fills your head. You can't act on them. And you can't incite others to.
In a very thin market you can get £13 on at 18s Hunt to get fewest votes. Remember that you are betting on whether Boris's team rigs the ballot, and if so, for whom. 5.7 Gove and 1.16 Saj. I'd not recommend taking the 5.9 Boris! Presumably the layer hopes to trap people who think they are backing him to win.
Someone should be allowed to argue that there should be no age of consent, for example, but encouraging someone to rape an 11 year old should be a crime.
1. Boris Elected
2. Failed Negotiation
3. Nationalist Bluster
4. Early Election
5. Comedy campaign
6. Crash No Deal
7. ?
The only amusing side of that would be that it would serve Michael Gove (and Sarah) right. But someone should certainly turn the heat up on Boris and Gove is almost certainly the one who could do that. As Boris' supporters realise.
Diversity of rights no. If I as a Dawkins style atheist say I think organised religion is immoral and that marriage between two religious people should be illegal then am I entitled to get the law changed to reflect that?
Tyranny of the majority is not ok. Taking away the liberties of others is not acceptable.
I hope you recover soon. We all have a right to walk safely and without fear in public spaces.
https://twitter.com/Alan_McGuinness/status/1141657770074288131
The risk of violence is bad.
The taking away of fundamental liberties (the right to elect your government) is worse.
I am a classical liberal. The backstop is illiberal.
https://www.porsche.com/museum/en/sonderausstellungen/
They've got a special exhibition on the 50th anniversary of the 917.
It is a very disturbing experience, and for a while it feels like one that will be life-changing.
Thankfully, in my case, the effect faded fairly quickly, I hope the same will be true for Justin.
https://twitter.com/ruskin147/status/1141656447325020160
https://bratwurstmuseum.de/
So why are the people who insist technology is the fix insist the back stop must go? Is it because they know they are lying about the technology solution?
Richard Grosvenor Plunkett-Ernle-Erle-Drax
it could well be a no alcohol affair !
if you get the chance do Titanic and Cathedral Quarter or Hillsborough Castle just outside Belfast
Her Maj has just spent some serious cash doing the place up
It is ultimately a choice.
There was a certain amount of anguish.
The Staatsgalerie is worth visiting for the architecture as well as the art. It's a Spa town, I liked Das Leuze best for a swim. There's the Mercedes factory at UnterTurkheim and Porsche at Zuffenhausen if you like cars. There's a long park parallel to the main shopping street and beyond which includes the Opera House.
Sorry if the info is out of date!
https://www.hrp.org.uk/hillsborough-castle/#gs.k9ink6
personally I prefer the country to the City.
There are lots of things to do in Stuttgart, but being a yokel I appreciated the surrounding countryside more
each to his own of course.