The fact that Tory MPs are having to hand their phones in before voting in order to prove they haven't taken photos of the ballot papers is a bit depressing from the point of view of honesty. Whatever happened to trusting people to do the right thing?
Rumour has it Williamson has asked some MPs to take in two phones: one to hand in, to prove they have none, and then another to take the photo of the ballot.
He can’t. Parliament would be on their summer holidays.
Can't he get them to hang around until the leadership election is done? If it looks like the members' ballot will be a formality, presumably the current government would be accommodating .
If Parliament hung around for later there’s the chance Parliament would likely VONC a Boris Johnson government.
And if Parliament doesn't hang around Boris will have to deliver Brexit with the existing Parliament. Labour is committed to No No Deal Brexit and could easily argue that avoiding No Deal overrides an election that might deliver it accidently..
And forcing an election in early December after Boris has failed to deliver anything by October 31st would be worthwhile for them..
Forcing an election in December after Corbyn has this enabled Brexit could see the LDs overtake Labour at that general election due to Remainers furious with Corbyn defecting to the yellows to try and ensure Brexit is reversed or we rejoin the single market
Corbyn won't have enabled Brexit - we would still be in limbo as Boris won't have done anything.
Calling an election just about let's Boris off the hook. By rejecting an election request Boris will have to reveal his plan which would then change the VoNC figures to the extent that his Government will fall.
For Boris to pull anything off he needs an election without breaking Parliament first and to do that he needs to keep telling everyone contradictory things hoping he isn't found out.
Of course Boris will have done something as if the Commons has not passed the WA by October Boris would refuse further extension even if the EU offered it (which Macron likely would not) so we would have left with No Deal by then
The Commons only last week refused to vote to legislate further to try and block No Deal.
The likely result then would be Leavers united behind Boris Remainers defect to the LDs and a few to the Greens and Corbyn Labour fall to third
The commons still has opportunities to block No Deal - last week wasn't the final chance no matter what others think...
Very difficult if the PM refuses to propose further extension as May did and of course if the Commons tries to stop Boris delivering Brexit that is a Boris dream scenario for the next general election
I'm still to see the Conservative Party pivoting fully to No Deal. The latest "wizard wheeze" or line of thinking seems to be once Boris Johnson is ensconced in No.10 to go to the country almost immediately as a way of changing the Parliamentary arithmetic.
Okay - fine - but an election needs a manifesto and what manifesto can all Conservatives stand on? We will definitely/probably/may be leaving on 31/10. The problem is going to see which candidates decide not to follow that and go their own way - for example, a Conservative candidate saying he/she could and would never support leaving the EU without a WA.
The divisions within the Party are only going to be exposed again in an election campaign - I also imagine TBP and Farage are coming up with their own attack lines and frantically seeking to get candidates in as many seats as possible. It will help TBP if the election is all about Brexit - I suspect TBP's divisions on other issues would come into play on other subjects.
Let's be honest - if a GE was a risk for a party on 45%, it's even more so for a Party on 21%. A couple of polls seemed to have convinced some there is a landslide waiting but this was the line two years ago as well.
Boris reunites the Leave vote behind him largely while the Remain vote is split unlike 2017 with many 2017 Labour voters now moving LD
If Johnson's first act on becoming p.m. in the week of July 22nd is to call a general election than that stops the by-election. But would he struggle to get the votes of MPs?
The fact that Tory MPs are having to hand their phones in before voting in order to prove they haven't taken photos of the ballot papers is a bit depressing from the point of view of honesty. Whatever happened to trusting people to do the right thing?
Rumour has it Williamson has asked some MPs to take in two phones: one to hand in, to prove they have none, and then another to take the photo of the ballot.
Official at the door - "Your phone sir... And the other one."
The fact that Tory MPs are having to hand their phones in before voting in order to prove they haven't taken photos of the ballot papers is a bit depressing from the point of view of honesty. Whatever happened to trusting people to do the right thing?
We are talking about the Conservative Party, Mr Andy. It is run by bullies and thugs.
I wonder if he is from one of the remaining Orange Lodge families, they still exist in Liverpool but I would have thought that was dying out. He clearly follows most of the DUP line in politics. He probably marches with the pipes and drums to celebrate the battle of the Boyne each year.
I know she comes out with some bull poop but that’s something epic.
Hard to know how to deal with this sort of thing. I play golf with a chap who considers the SNP to be 'communists'. Quite seriously, I mean, not in needling jest. Chunters on about it as we're playing. No point arguing because then you get sucked in and lose the mental benefits of what is meant to be recreation.
I'm still to see the Conservative Party pivoting fully to No Deal. The latest "wizard wheeze" or line of thinking seems to be once Boris Johnson is ensconced in No.10 to go to the country almost immediately as a way of changing the Parliamentary arithmetic.
Okay - fine - but an election needs a manifesto and what manifesto can all Conservatives stand on? We will definitely/probably/may be leaving on 31/10. The problem is going to see which candidates decide not to follow that and go their own way - for example, a Conservative candidate saying he/she could and would never support leaving the EU without a WA.
The divisions within the Party are only going to be exposed again in an election campaign - I also imagine TBP and Farage are coming up with their own attack lines and frantically seeking to get candidates in as many seats as possible. It will help TBP if the election is all about Brexit - I suspect TBP's divisions on other issues would come into play on other subjects.
Let's be honest - if a GE was a risk for a party on 45%, it's even more so for a Party on 21%. A couple of polls seemed to have convinced some there is a landslide waiting but this was the line two years ago as well.
Boris reunites the Leave vote behind him largely while the Remain vote is split unlike 2017 with many 2017 Labour voters now moving LD
Does he? So Brexit Party will get 0% will they?
Brexit Party gets 13% with Boris but down from over 20% now and the Brexit Party fall even further with Comres if Boris is leader. Boris gets the Tory vote back close to 30%
But he loses my vote and probably many like me to the LDs. I will not support someone so clearly dishonest to be PM.
I know she comes out with some bull poop but that’s something epic.
Gove might not be a Remainer, which these days seems to be used as code for anyone not advocating crashing out by the middle of next week, but he is a more cautious Leaver. Most of his early support came from the Remain wing of the party, though I've not checked to see if that is the case still.
Boris reunites the Leave vote behind him largely while the Remain vote is split unlike 2017 with many 2017 Labour voters now moving LD
How is the Leave vote united? TBP isn't going to disappear just to suit Boris and indeed the Leave vote itself is fragmented between those who are happy to leave without an agreed WA and those who don't want that but do want to leave with an agreed WA.
At the moment, TBP caters for the former and the Conservatives for the latter and Boris, having originally said we could leave without a WA on 31/10 is now backtracking. IN any case, Farage has plenty of attack lines on Boris's past pledges.
So we now have this notion of "renegotiation" - Renegotiate what? With whom? The EU have made it abundantly clear the WA is there and it won't be changed. Some on the Conservative side still cling to the belief the EU will fold if we shout loud enough.
Boris has failed to come up with an alternative and the assumption that IF the EU offer another extension he will walk away is far from certain.
I wonder if he is from one of the remaining Orange Lodge families, they still exist in Liverpool but I would have thought that was dying out. He clearly follows most of the DUP line in politics. He probably marches with the pipes and drums to celebrate the battle of the Boyne each year.
Wrong. None of my family attend church and family is a mix of CoE + RCC.
The fact that Tory MPs are having to hand their phones in before voting in order to prove they haven't taken photos of the ballot papers is a bit depressing from the point of view of honesty. Whatever happened to trusting people to do the right thing?
Rumour has it Williamson has asked some MPs to take in two phones: one to hand in, to prove they have none, and then another to take the photo of the ballot.
Official at the door - "Your phone sir... And the other one."
MPs should take a third phone -- to record Williamson giving these bizarre instructions.
A GE is a risk for the Tories, but it is also a risk for every one else.
Whoever emerges from the election will have to implement a plan. What is Labour's plan?
The LibDems and the Brexit party do have clear plans -- but the consequences of implementing their plans are very likely to lose votes.
If the Tories lost, I think they would be content to see a coalition of Labour++ try an implement something. for a year or so.
The Tories don't have to win GE, they just have to make sure they don't lose too badly. Because an inconclusive GE in 2019 is not likely to be the end of the matter.
I'm not saying they do but if they have any sense Labour would run on 1) Negotiate Wonderful Jobs-First Brexit Full Of Rainbows And Loveliness. 2) Pass it subject to a binding referendum.
I don't think Remainiac voters will care too much about (1) as long as they have a weasel-free commitment to (2). (1) won't attract a huge number of leavers either but it at least gives candidates in very leavey seats a little bit of cover.
Obviously the LibDems will run on brexit being retarded and should be stopped with a People's Vote.
I really have no idea who would win a referendum like this, but as a Remain supporter I don't think I'd relish being represented by Corbyn and whatever LibDem against talented, audacious politicans like Boris and Farage.
I'm still to see the Conservative Party pivoting fully to No Deal. The latest "wizard wheeze" or line of thinking seems to be once Boris Johnson is ensconced in No.10 to go to the country almost immediately as a way of changing the Parliamentary arithmetic.
Okay - fine - but an election needs a manifesto and what manifesto can all Conservatives stand on? We will definitely/probably/may be leaving on 31/10. The problem is going to see which candidates decide not to follow that and go their own way - for example, a Conservative candidate saying he/she could and would never support leaving the EU without a WA.
The divisions within the Party are only going to be exposed again in an election campaign - I also imagine TBP and Farage are coming up with their own attack lines and frantically seeking to get candidates in as many seats as possible. It will help TBP if the election is all about Brexit - I suspect TBP's divisions on other issues would come into play on other subjects.
Let's be honest - if a GE was a risk for a party on 45%, it's even more so for a Party on 21%. A couple of polls seemed to have convinced some there is a landslide waiting but this was the line two years ago as well.
Boris reunites the Leave vote behind him largely while the Remain vote is split unlike 2017 with many 2017 Labour voters now moving LD
Does he? So Brexit Party will get 0% will they?
Brexit Party gets 13% with Boris but down from over 20% now and the Brexit Party fall even further with Comres if Boris is leader. Boris gets the Tory vote back close to 30%
Brexit while everything thinks of their Boris unicorn gets 13% down from over 20%. But what happens to that vote when Boris reveals what he's going to do...
I suspect it won't be 13% it will be higher. Oh and even 13% will be enough to loss a few essential seats...
I know she comes out with some bull poop but that’s something epic.
Off her trolley. Amazes me anyone even reads the crap that comes from the pens of some of these polemicists. And that includes Boris Johnson. I suppose one upside of him becoming PM is that no-one will need to read his trashy articles.
"MPs have stepped up attacks on each other over "game playing" with tactical votes as MPs prepared to narrow down the leadership race to the final two today.
Andrea Jenkyns suggested MPs from Michael Gove's camp tactically voted to prop up Rory Stewart in the second round before withdrawing from him yesterday."
Absolutely shocked I must say to learn that Johnny Mercer's friendly advice to the Saudis on not targeting civilians does not appear to have been heeded.
I'm still to see the Conservative Party pivoting fully to No Deal. The latest "wizard wheeze" or line of thinking seems to be once Boris Johnson is ensconced in No.10 to go to the country almost immediately as a way of changing the Parliamentary arithmetic.
Okay - fine - but an election needs a manifesto and what manifesto can all Conservatives stand on? We will definitely/probably/may be leaving on 31/10. The problem is going to see which candidates decide not to follow that and go their own way - for example, a Conservative candidate saying he/she could and would never support leaving the EU without a WA.
The divisions within the Party are only going to be exposed again in an election campaign - I also imagine TBP and Farage are coming up with their own attack lines and frantically seeking to get candidates in as many seats as possible. It will help TBP if the election is all about Brexit - I suspect TBP's divisions on other issues would come into play on other subjects.
Let's be honest - if a GE was a risk for a party on 45%, it's even more so for a Party on 21%. A couple of polls seemed to have convinced some there is a landslide waiting but this was the line two years ago as well.
Boris reunites the Leave vote behind him largely while the Remain vote is split unlike 2017 with many 2017 Labour voters now moving LD
Does he? So Brexit Party will get 0% will they?
Brexit Party gets 13% with Boris but down from over 20% now and the Brexit Party fall even further with Comres if Boris is leader. Boris gets the Tory vote back close to 30%
Brexit while everything thinks of their Boris unicorn gets 13% down from over 20%. But what happens to that vote when Boris reveals what he's going to do...
I suspect it won't be 13% it will be higher. Oh and even 13% will be enough to loss a few essential seats...
Boris will deliver Brexit Deal or No Deal.
If Corbyn blocks a general election and blocks Brexit in October (assuming somehow the Commons can extend again without the support of the executive and without Macron vetoing further extension which I think unlikely) then Boris can rally Leavers behind him while Corbyn still sees defections of Remainers to the LDs.
The Brexit Party on 13% largely matches the UKIP total in 2015 which did not prevent a Tory majority (Indeed the Tories even won a few seats like Vale of Clwyd due to Labour defections to UKIP they lost in 2017)
Interesting. Presumably George and Boris have been in secret talk, in which Boris assured George that the hard-Brexit stuff was just to dupe the plebs and as PM he'll be Mr Softy.
A GE is a risk for the Tories, but it is also a risk for every one else.
Whoever emerges from the election will have to implement a plan. What is Labour's plan?
The LibDems and the Brexit party do have clear plans -- but the consequences of implementing their plans are very likely to lose votes.
If the Tories lost, I think they would be content to see a coalition of Labour++ try an implement something. for a year or so.
The Tories don't have to win GE, they just have to make sure they don't lose too badly. Because an inconclusive GE in 2019 is not likely to be the end of the matter.
I'm not saying they do but if they have any sense Labour would run on 1) Negotiate Wonderful Jobs-First Brexit Full Of Rainbows And Loveliness. 2) Pass it subject to a binding referendum.
I don't think Remainiac voters will care too much about (1) as long as they have a weasel-free commitment to (2). (1) won't attract a huge number of leavers either but it at least gives candidates in very leavey seats a little bit of cover.
Obviously the LibDems will run on brexit being retarded and should be stopped with a People's Vote.
I really have no idea who would win a referendum like this, but generally I think I'd rather be represented by talented, audacious politicans like Boris and Farage than whatever the Remain side will have.
A Brexit Full of Rainbows and Loveliness gets my vote.
Yes, there is an opportunity for Labour here.
Even swingeing tax raises for higher rate taxpayers probably won't put off Affluent Remainers. Excellent, if Jazza has the wit to take advantage of it.
I'm still to see the Conservative Party pivoting fully to No Deal. The latest "wizard wheeze" or line of thinking seems to be once Boris Johnson is ensconced in No.10 to go to the country almost immediately as a way of changing the Parliamentary arithmetic.
Okay - fine - but an election needs a manifesto and what manifesto can all Conservatives stand on? We will definitely/probably/may be leaving on 31/10. The problem is going to see which candidates decide not to follow that and go their own way - for example, a Conservative candidate saying he/she could and would never support leaving the EU without a WA.
The divisions within the Party are only going to be exposed again in an election campaign - I also imagine TBP and Farage are coming up with their own attack lines and frantically seeking to get candidates in as many seats as possible. It will help TBP if the election is all about Brexit - I suspect TBP's divisions on other issues would come into play on other subjects.
Let's be honest - if a GE was a risk for a party on 45%, it's even more so for a Party on 21%. A couple of polls seemed to have convinced some there is a landslide waiting but this was the line two years ago as well.
Boris reunites the Leave vote behind him largely while the Remain vote is split unlike 2017 with many 2017 Labour voters now moving LD
Does he? So Brexit Party will get 0% will they?
Brexit Party gets 13% with Boris but down from over 20% now and the Brexit Party fall even further with Comres if Boris is leader. Boris gets the Tory vote back close to 30%
But he loses my vote and probably many like me to the LDs. I will not support someone so clearly dishonest to be PM.
Bye then.
Over 50% of 2017 Tories who voted voted Brexit Party in the European Parliament elections only 12% LD, it is clear on a forced choice it is the former the Tories must win back rather thsn the latter
I'm still to see the Conservative Party pivoting fully to No Deal. The latest "wizard wheeze" or line of thinking seems to be once Boris Johnson is ensconced in No.10 to go to the country almost immediately as a way of changing the Parliamentary arithmetic.
Okay - fine - but an election needs a manifesto and what manifesto can all Conservatives stand on? We will definitely/probably/may be leaving on 31/10. The problem is going to see which candidates decide not to follow that and go their own way - for example, a Conservative candidate saying he/she could and would never support leaving the EU without a WA.
The divisions within the Party are only going to be exposed again in an election campaign - I also imagine TBP and Farage are coming up with their own attack lines and frantically seeking to get candidates in as many seats as possible. It will help TBP if the election is all about Brexit - I suspect TBP's divisions on other issues would come into play on other subjects.
Let's be honest - if a GE was a risk for a party on 45%, it's even more so for a Party on 21%. A couple of polls seemed to have convinced some there is a landslide waiting but this was the line two years ago as well.
Boris reunites the Leave vote behind him largely while the Remain vote is split unlike 2017 with many 2017 Labour voters now moving LD
If Johnson's first act on becoming p.m. in the week of July 22nd is to call a general election than that stops the by-election. But would he struggle to get the votes of MPs?
Corbyn looks a coward if he votes against a general election having been screaming for one for weeks
Absolutely shocked I must say to learn that Johnny Mercer's friendly advice to the Saudis on not targeting civilians does not appear to have been heeded.
Looking at the history of the Brecon & Radnor constituency, I notice the current incumbent Tory, Christopher Davies replaced previous Conservative candidate, Suzy Davies, who in turn replaced Andrew Davies.
Is there serious nepotism in the B&R Conservative Association or is everyone in that part of the world called Davies?
I don't know if anyone else listens to Radio 5, but Emma Barnett has just made mincemeat out of Damian Collins as he struggled to defend Boris over questions about his ability and character. I suspect Team Boris will be steering clear of Barnett from now on.
Interesting. Presumably George and Boris have been in secret talk, in which Boris assured George that the hard-Brexit stuff was just to dupe the plebs and as PM he'll be Mr Softy.
Or is George being mischievous, knowing that any endorsement from him will discredit Boris in the minds of the swivel-eyed brigade?
Imagine the most Bavarian scene possible, Alpen foothills; locals out in traditional garb, houses with flowered wooden balconies. Sound of a brass band .. That's where I am right now.
I'm still to see the Conservative Party pivoting fully to No Deal. The latest "wizard wheeze" or line of thinking seems to be once Boris Johnson is ensconced in No.10 to go to the country almost immediately as a way of changing the Parliamentary arithmetic.
Okay - fine - but an election needs a manifesto and what manifesto can all Conservatives stand on? We will definitely/probably/may be leaving on 31/10. The problem is going to see which candidates decide not to follow that and go their own way - for example, a Conservative candidate saying he/she could and would never support leaving the EU without a WA.
The divisions within the Party are only going to be exposed again in an election campaign - I also imagine TBP and Farage are coming up with their own attack lines and frantically seeking to get candidates in as many seats as possible. It will help TBP if the election is all about Brexit - I suspect TBP's divisions on other issues would come into play on other subjects.
Let's be honest - if a GE was a risk for a party on 45%, it's even more so for a Party on 21%. A couple of polls seemed to have convinced some there is a landslide waiting but this was the line two years ago as well.
Boris reunites the Leave vote behind him largely while the Remain vote is split unlike 2017 with many 2017 Labour voters now moving LD
Does he? So Brexit Party will get 0% will they?
Brexit Party gets 13% with Boris but down from over 20% now and the Brexit Party fall even further with Comres if Boris is leader. Boris gets the Tory vote back close to 30%
But he loses my vote and probably many like me to the LDs. I will not support someone so clearly dishonest to be PM.
So long, farewell, auf wiedersehen goodbye!
I don't believe you had any intention of voting Tory next time either way.
Boris voted for the Deal at MV3, he wants a FTA for GB and to remove the temporary Customs Union for GB, he does not care about the backstop in NI
He might not, but what about the Brexit Party supporters who have been sold the koolaid? That paying the EU even a penny is too much?
Most Brexit Party voters do not care about the backstop in NI either they only want the temporary Customs Union for GB removed as Boris does and for Brexit to be delivered.
Only the DUP really care about the backstop but Boris will throw the DUP under the bus if he has to.
The No Deal fanatics represent no more than about 10% of the vote and the Brexit Party back to not much more than 10% enables a Boris overall majority
Interesting. Presumably George and Boris have been in secret talk, in which Boris assured George that the hard-Brexit stuff was just to dupe the plebs and as PM he'll be Mr Softy.
Or is George being mischievous, knowing that any endorsement from him will discredit Boris in the minds of the swivel-eyed brigade?
Don't forget Boris unlike May is a liberal Cameroon. Plus the Standard has a long history of backing Boris.
I'm still to see the Conservative Party pivoting fully to No Deal. The latest "wizard wheeze" or line of thinking seems to be once Boris Johnson is ensconced in No.10 to go to the country almost immediately as a way of changing the Parliamentary arithmetic.
Okay - fine - but an election needs a manifesto and what manifesto can all Conservatives stand on? We will definitely/probably/may be leaving on 31/10. The problem is going to see which candidates decide not to follow that and go their own way - for example, a Conservative candidate saying he/she could and would never support leaving the EU without a WA.
The divisions within the Party are only going to be exposed again in an election campaign - I also imagine TBP and Farage are coming up with their own attack lines and frantically seeking to get candidates in as many seats as possible. It will help TBP if the election is all about Brexit - I suspect TBP's divisions on other issues would come into play on other subjects.
Let's be honest - if a GE was a risk for a party on 45%, it's even more so for a Party on 21%. A couple of polls seemed to have convinced some there is a landslide waiting but this was the line two years ago as well.
Boris reunites the Leave vote behind him largely while the Remain vote is split unlike 2017 with many 2017 Labour voters now moving LD
Does he? So Brexit Party will get 0% will they?
Brexit Party gets 13% with Boris but down from over 20% now and the Brexit Party fall even further with Comres if Boris is leader. Boris gets the Tory vote back close to 30%
But he loses my vote and probably many like me to the LDs. I will not support someone so clearly dishonest to be PM.
So long, farewell, auf wiedersehen goodbye!
I don't believe you had any intention of voting Labour next time either way.
I don't know if anyone else listens to Radio 5, but Emma Barnett has just made mincemeat out of Damian Collins as he struggled to defend Boris over questions about his ability and character. I suspect Team Boris will be steering clear of Barnett from now on.
Damien Collins is hopeless. Boris's choice of supporter to send out again looks questionable.
Boris voted for the Deal at MV3, he wants a FTA for GB and to remove the temporary Customs Union for GB, he does not care about the backstop in NI
He might not, but what about the Brexit Party supporters who have been sold the koolaid? That paying the EU even a penny is too much?
Most Brexit Party voters do not care about the backstop in NI either they only want the temporary Customs Union for GB removed as Boris does and for Brexit to be delivered.
Only the DUP really care about the backstop but Boris will throw the DUP under the bus if he has to
Most voters don't know what is the backstop or an FTA or anything else. They did know Dover is on the way to France before Dominic Raab though.
The ERG cares about the backstop and several ministers resigned over it. This is not only or even mainly a DUP issue.
It won't be August unless Boris is elected without a members ballot. If there is a member's ballot the earliest it can be is September if Parliament is still sitting when Boris is elected..
Looking at the history of the Brecon & Radnor constituency, I notice the current incumbent Tory, Christopher Davies replaced previous Conservative candidate, Suzy Davies, who in turn replaced Andrew Davies.
Is there serious nepotism in the B&R Conservative Association or is everyone in that part of the world called Davies?
It is evidence that the B&R Tory party is choosing local candidates.
As opposed to the LibDems in mid-Wales, who normally find some London-centric nonentity.
I'm still to see the Conservative Party pivoting fully to No Deal. The latest "wizard wheeze" or line of thinking seems to be once Boris Johnson is ensconced in No.10 to go to the country almost immediately as a way of changing the Parliamentary arithmetic.
Okay - fine - but an election needs a manifesto and what manifesto can all Conservatives stand on? We will definitely/probably/may be leaving on 31/10. The problem is going to see which candidates decide not to follow that and go their own way - for example, a Conservative candidate saying he/she could and would never support leaving the EU without a WA.
The divisions within the Party are only going to be exposed again in an election campaign - I also imagine TBP and Farage are coming up with their own attack lines and frantically seeking to get candidates in as many seats as possible. It will help TBP if the election is all about Brexit - I suspect TBP's divisions on other issues would come into play on other subjects.
Let's be honest - if a GE was a risk for a party on 45%, it's even more so for a Party on 21%. A couple of polls seemed to have convinced some there is a landslide waiting but this was the line two years ago as well.
Boris reunites the Leave vote behind him largely while the Remain vote is split unlike 2017 with many 2017 Labour voters now moving LD
If Johnson's first act on becoming p.m. in the week of July 22nd is to call a general election than that stops the by-election. But would he struggle to get the votes of MPs?
Corbyn looks a coward if he votes against a general election having been screaming for one for weeks
I'm still to see the Conservative Party pivoting fully to No Deal. The latest "wizard wheeze" or line of thinking seems to be once Boris Johnson is ensconced in No.10 to go to the country almost immediately as a way of changing the Parliamentary arithmetic.
Okay - fine - but an election needs a manifesto and what manifesto can all Conservatives stand on? We will definitely/probably/may be leaving on 31/10. The problem is going to see which candidates decide not to follow that and go their own way - for example, a Conservative candidate saying he/she could and would never support leaving the EU without a WA.
The divisions within the Party are only going to be exposed again in an election campaign - I also imagine TBP and Farage are coming up with their own attack lines and frantically seeking to get candidates in as many seats as possible. It will help TBP if the election is all about Brexit - I suspect TBP's divisions on other issues would come into play on other subjects.
Let's be honest - if a GE was a risk for a party on 45%, it's even more so for a Party on 21%. A couple of polls seemed to have convinced some there is a landslide waiting but this was the line two years ago as well.
Boris reunites the Leave vote behind him largely while the Remain vote is split unlike 2017 with many 2017 Labour voters now moving LD
Does he? So Brexit Party will get 0% will they?
Brexit Party gets 13% with Boris but down from over 20% now and the Brexit Party fall even further with Comres if Boris is leader. Boris gets the Tory vote back close to 30%
But he loses my vote and probably many like me to the LDs. I will not support someone so clearly dishonest to be PM.
So long, farewell, auf wiedersehen goodbye!
I don't believe you had any intention of voting Tory next time either way.
Many people vote for their least worst candidate who has a chance of winning.
In a lot of the north that was until now the Tory candidate...
I'm still to see the Conservative Party pivoting fully to No Deal. The latest "wizard wheeze" or line of thinking seems to be once Boris Johnson is ensconced in No.10 to go to the country almost immediately as a way of changing the Parliamentary arithmetic.
Okay - fine - but an election needs a manifesto and what manifesto can all Conservatives stand on? We will definitely/probably/may be leaving on 31/10. The problem is going to see which candidates decide not to follow that and go their own way - for example, a Conservative candidate saying he/she could and would never support leaving the EU without a WA.
The divisions within the Party are only going to be exposed again in an election campaign - I also imagine TBP and Farage are coming up with their own attack lines and frantically seeking to get candidates in as many seats as possible. It will help TBP if the election is all about Brexit - I suspect TBP's divisions on other issues would come into play on other subjects.
Let's be honest - if a GE was a risk for a party on 45%, it's even more so for a Party on 21%. A couple of polls seemed to have convinced some there is a landslide waiting but this was the line two years ago as well.
Boris reunites the Leave vote behind him largely while the Remain vote is split unlike 2017 with many 2017 Labour voters now moving LD
Does he? So Brexit Party will get 0% will they?
Brexit Party gets 13% with Boris but down from over 20% now and the Brexit Party fall even further with Comres if Boris is leader. Boris gets the Tory vote back close to 30%
But he loses my vote and probably many like me to the LDs. I will not support someone so clearly dishonest to be PM.
So long, farewell, auf wiedersehen goodbye!
I don't believe you had any intention of voting Labour next time either way.
Oh look; it’s Owen Jones.
Well I for one have no intention of voting Labour whether its led by Corbyn or Kendall.
I'm still to see the Conservative Party pivoting fully to No Deal. The latest "wizard wheeze" or line of thinking seems to be once Boris Johnson is ensconced in No.10 to go to the country almost immediately as a way of changing the Parliamentary arithmetic.
Okay - fine - but an election needs a manifesto and what manifesto can all Conservatives stand on? We will definitely/probably/may be leaving on 31/10. The problem is going to see which candidates decide not to follow that and go their own way - for example, a Conservative candidate saying he/she could and would never support leaving the EU without a WA.
The divisions within the Party are only going to be exposed again in an election campaign - I also imagine TBP and Farage are coming up with their own attack lines and frantically seeking to get candidates in as many seats as possible. It will help TBP if the election is all about Brexit - I suspect TBP's divisions on other issues would come into play on other subjects.
Let's be honest - if a GE was a risk for a party on 45%, it's even more so for a Party on 21%. A couple of polls seemed to have convinced some there is a landslide waiting but this was the line two years ago as well.
Boris reunites the Leave vote behind him largely while the Remain vote is split unlike 2017 with many 2017 Labour voters now moving LD
Does he? So Brexit Party will get 0% will they?
Brexit Party gets 13% with Boris but down from over 20% now and the Brexit Party fall even further with Comres if Boris is leader. Boris gets the Tory vote back close to 30%
But he loses my vote and probably many like me to the LDs. I will not support someone so clearly dishonest to be PM.
So long, farewell, auf wiedersehen goodbye!
I don't believe you had any intention of voting Tory next time either way.
Many people vote for their least worst candidate who has a chance of winning.
In a lot of the north that was until now the Tory candidate...
And that will be the case for much of the North still under Boris.
Not for die-in-the-ditch Remainers like Nigel Foremain but he is not under any circumstances voting Tory no matter who the leader is. That's like wondering whether Jo Swinson or Ed Davey is more likely to win Nigel Farage over to the Lib Dems. Neither will.
I'm still to see the Conservative Party pivoting fully to No Deal. The latest "wizard wheeze" or line of thinking seems to be once Boris Johnson is ensconced in No.10 to go to the country almost immediately as a way of changing the Parliamentary arithmetic.
Okay - fine - but an election needs a manifesto and what manifesto can all Conservatives stand on? We will definitely/probably/may be leaving on 31/10. The problem is going to see which candidates decide not to follow that and go their own way - for example, a Conservative candidate saying he/she could and would never support leaving the EU without a WA.
The divisions within the Party are only going to be exposed again in an election campaign - I also imagine TBP and Farage are coming up with their own attack lines and frantically seeking to get candidates in as many seats as possible. It will help TBP if the election is all about Brexit - I suspect TBP's divisions on other issues would come into play on other subjects.
Let's be honest - if a GE was a risk for a party on 45%, it's even more so for a Party on 21%. A couple of polls seemed to have convinced some there is a landslide waiting but this was the line two years ago as well.
Boris reunites the Leave vote behind him largely while the Remain vote is split unlike 2017 with many 2017 Labour voters now moving LD
If Johnson's first act on becoming p.m. in the week of July 22nd is to call a general election than that stops the by-election. But would he struggle to get the votes of MPs?
Corbyn looks a coward if he votes against a general election having been screaming for one for weeks
Years not weeks.
I can easily see the following play out:-
Boris asks for a General Election that goes to a vote but Corbyn states that he wants a VoNC first. Parliament rejects the General Election request There is a VoNC...
There is an awful lot of things here that are very timing dependent
Imagine the most Bavarian scene possible, Alpen foothills; locals out in traditional garb, houses with flowered wooden balconies. Sound of a brass band .. That's where I am right now.
Is this petition really likely to succeed? It seems to me that this was pretty technical without any of the moral opprobrium of Peterborough.
I'm uncomfortable with recall petitions. If an MP is deemed unfit for for office, because for example a criminal conviction, there should be a process for triggering a by-election. Whether there is a good case for dismissal on grounds of personal conduct or not, it shouldn't be left to the whim of a recall petition IMO.
One purpose of the recall petition is to protect MPs from abuse of the process by the Executive. It's the electorate who decide.
In this way it has some similarities with the jury system, where the ability of a jury to act on its "whims" is an important defence against authoritarianism.
I don't know if anyone else listens to Radio 5, but Emma Barnett has just made mincemeat out of Damian Collins as he struggled to defend Boris over questions about his ability and character. I suspect Team Boris will be steering clear of Barnett from now on.
Damien Collins is hopeless. Boris's choice of supporter to send out again looks questionable.
To be fair to Collins if it was about his ability and character it would be an impossible task.
I'm still to see the Conservative Party pivoting fully to No Deal. The latest "wizard wheeze" or line of thinking seems to be once Boris Johnson is ensconced in No.10 to go to the country almost immediately as a way of changing the Parliamentary arithmetic.
Okay - fine - but an election needs a manifesto and what manifesto can all Conservatives stand on? We will definitely/probably/may be leaving on 31/10. The problem is going to see which candidates decide not to follow that and go their own way - for example, a Conservative candidate saying he/she could and would never support leaving the EU without a WA.
The divisions within the Party are only going to be exposed again in an election campaign - I also imagine TBP and Farage are coming up with their own attack lines and frantically seeking to get candidates in as many seats as possible. It will help TBP if the election is all about Brexit - I suspect TBP's divisions on other issues would come into play on other subjects.
Let's be honest - if a GE was a risk for a party on 45%, it's even more so for a Party on 21%. A couple of polls seemed to have convinced some there is a landslide waiting but this was the line two years ago as well.
Boris reunites the Leave vote behind him largely while the Remain vote is split unlike 2017 with many 2017 Labour voters now moving LD
If Johnson's first act on becoming p.m. in the week of July 22nd is to call a general election than that stops the by-election. But would he struggle to get the votes of MPs?
Corbyn looks a coward if he votes against a general election having been screaming for one for weeks
Years not weeks.
I can easily see the following play out:-
Boris asks for a General Election that goes to a vote but Corbyn states that he wants a VoNC first. Parliament rejects the General Election request There is a VoNC...
There is an awful lot of things here that are very timing dependent
I can't. Corbyn would look extremely frit and ridiculous after spending years demanding a General Election.
Plus it would destroy his own line on the EU which until now has been to first and foremost get an election rather than back a second referendum. If he gets offered an election and turns it down where does he go from there?
I'm still to see the Conservative Party pivoting fully to No Deal. The latest "wizard wheeze" or line of thinking seems to be once Boris Johnson is ensconced in No.10 to go to the country almost immediately as a way of changing the Parliamentary arithmetic.
Okay - fine - but an election needs a manifesto and what manifesto can all Conservatives stand on? We will definitely/probably/may be leaving on 31/10. The problem is going to see which candidates decide not to follow that and go their own way - for example, a Conservative candidate saying he/she could and would never support leaving the EU without a WA.
The divisions within the Party are only going to be exposed again in an election campaign - I also imagine TBP and Farage are coming up with their own attack lines and frantically seeking to get candidates in as many seats as possible. It will help TBP if the election is all about Brexit - I suspect TBP's divisions on other issues would come into play on other subjects.
Let's be honest - if a GE was a risk for a party on 45%, it's even more so for a Party on 21%. A couple of polls seemed to have convinced some there is a landslide waiting but this was the line two years ago as well.
Boris reunites the Leave vote behind him largely while the Remain vote is split unlike 2017 with many 2017 Labour voters now moving LD
If Johnson's first act on becoming p.m. in the week of July 22nd is to call a general election than that stops the by-election. But would he struggle to get the votes of MPs?
Corbyn looks a coward if he votes against a general election having been screaming for one for weeks
Years not weeks.
I can easily see the following play out:-
Boris asks for a General Election that goes to a vote but Corbyn states that he wants a VoNC first. Parliament rejects the General Election request There is a VoNC...
There is an awful lot of things here that are very timing dependent
This what I thought Jezza should have done in 2017 - agree to election if HoC passes VoNC
Imagine the most Bavarian scene possible, Alpen foothills; locals out in traditional garb, houses with flowered wooden balconies. Sound of a brass band .. That's where I am right now.
I wonder if he is from one of the remaining Orange Lodge families, they still exist in Liverpool but I would have thought that was dying out. He clearly follows most of the DUP line in politics. He probably marches with the pipes and drums to celebrate the battle of the Boyne each year.
When people say they want diversity in politics/life in general, what do they mean?
I'm still to see the Conservative Party pivoting fully to No Deal. The latest "wizard wheeze" or line of thinking seems to be once Boris Johnson is ensconced in No.10 to go to the country almost immediately as a way of changing the Parliamentary arithmetic.
Okay - fine - but an election needs a manifesto and what manifesto can all Conservatives stand on? We will definitely/probably/may be leaving on 31/10. The problem is going to see which candidates decide not to follow that and go their own way - for example, a Conservative candidate saying he/she could and would never support leaving the EU without a WA.
The divisions within the Party are only going to be exposed again in an election campaign - I also imagine TBP and Farage are coming up with their own attack lines and frantically seeking to get candidates in as many seats as possible. It will help TBP if the election is all about Brexit - I suspect TBP's divisions on other issues would come into play on other subjects.
Let's be honest - if a GE was a risk for a party on 45%, it's even more so for a Party on 21%. A couple of polls seemed to have convinced some there is a landslide waiting but this was the line two years ago as well.
Boris reunites the Leave vote behind him largely while the Remain vote is split unlike 2017 with many 2017 Labour voters now moving LD
If Johnson's first act on becoming p.m. in the week of July 22nd is to call a general election than that stops the by-election. But would he struggle to get the votes of MPs?
Corbyn looks a coward if he votes against a general election having been screaming for one for weeks
Years not weeks.
I can easily see the following play out:-
Boris asks for a General Election that goes to a vote but Corbyn states that he wants a VoNC first. Parliament rejects the General Election request There is a VoNC...
There is an awful lot of things here that are very timing dependent
I can't. Corbyn would look extremely frit and ridiculous after spending years demanding a General Election.
Plus it would destroy his own line on the EU which until now has been to first and foremost get an election rather than back a second referendum. If he gets offered an election and turns it down where does he go from there?
Why would Corbyn want Boris to go into an election as PM when he could ensure Boris isn't?
Remember a PM has a few advantages during an election campaign - if Boris isn't PM those advantages are gone..
Excuse my ignorance but is it legal for people heavily involved in this process to bet on the outcome?
I assume you mean the leadership election? I doubt it’s illegal as is in sports betting it could be immoral but why would that stop some Tory mp rigging the vote to get a desired result this round that matched his betting situation.
Imagine the most Bavarian scene possible, Alpen foothills; locals out in traditional garb, houses with flowered wooden balconies. Sound of a brass band .. That's where I am right now.
Boris (what underlying principles does he have?) Gove (a radical who is into detail) Hunt (wet blanket, but an entrepreneur) The Saj (now taking the outsider spot)
I admit I am in the minority on this issue, sadly.
But there's still a fair proportion of us who find it wrong.
You still haven't given a single non-religious reason why secular civil marriage should be denied to gays.
The relationship in my eyes is not equal to a straight relationship, so therefore I do not want it approved or ranked by the law in such a way.
Since when does the law rank relationships?
The relationship between two drug addicted straight people is not equal to two law abiding gay people. But ranking relationships isn't a matter for the law.
I wonder if he is from one of the remaining Orange Lodge families, they still exist in Liverpool but I would have thought that was dying out. He clearly follows most of the DUP line in politics. He probably marches with the pipes and drums to celebrate the battle of the Boyne each year.
When people say they want diversity in politics/life in general, what do they mean?
Yes unless that diversity seeks to prevent others having their diversity.
Why would Corbyn want Boris to go into an election as PM when he could ensure Boris isn't?
That's not the question. The question is if Corbyn wants an election or not.
All Boris has to say is we have Confidence in ourselves so will vote against any VONC but if you want an election vote for it. If Corbyn is then too frit to vote for an election he would be destroyed by both his own supporters and his opponents within the Labour Party.
Imagine the most Bavarian scene possible, Alpen foothills; locals out in traditional garb, houses with flowered wooden balconies. Sound of a brass band .. That's where I am right now.
Excuse my ignorance but is it legal for people heavily involved in this process to bet on the outcome?
I assume you mean the leadership election? I doubt it’s illegal as is in sports betting it could be immoral but why would that stop some Tory mp rigging the vote to get a desired result this round that matched his betting situation.
It might even be legal for one of the 1922 returning officers to nip out and place a bet in the 55 minutes between finishing counting 313 votes and the start of the main news on BBC1 so the party gets a free advert. Normal practice is to blame journalists when this sort of thing is discovered.
The law has nothing to do with morals. Morals are a matter for individuals not the law.
Of course the law is shaped on our morals as a society. Unless you're advocating a Ron Paul type society, which wouldn't be a completely bad thing, then it is a battle to define what those morals are.
Why would Corbyn want Boris to go into an election as PM when he could ensure Boris isn't?
That's not the question. The question is if Corbyn wants an election or not.
All Boris has to say is we have Confidence in ourselves so will vote against any VONC but if you want an election vote for it. If Corbyn is then too frit to vote for an election he would be destroyed by both his own supporters and his opponents within the Labour Party.
If Boris said that the reply would be OK lets see shall we. Delay the vote for a general election until the day after tomorrow as tomorrow will be a VoNC and your confidence is going to be found to be incorrect...
After all why would you have a general election if you could lead a Government without an election...
Excuse my ignorance but is it legal for people heavily involved in this process to bet on the outcome?
Politicians, unlike everyone else, expect to be able to lie to the public for profit without legal consequence. So naturally they would expect to be allowed to insider deal as well.
The law has nothing to do with morals. Morals are a matter for individuals not the law.
Of course the law is shaped on our morals as a society. Unless you're advocating a Ron Paul type society, which wouldn't be a completely bad thing, then it is a battle to define what those morals are.
And TSE, in the closet? Quite the opposite.
I am advocating a society where laws are based on what is good or prevents harm for others and morals are a matter for free will.
I don't seek to impose my morals on you and what gives you the right to shove your morals down my throat? Morals should have NOTHING to do with laws.
Comments
Team Boris is pulling all the strings.
But there's still a fair proportion of us who find it wrong.
At the moment, TBP caters for the former and the Conservatives for the latter and Boris, having originally said we could leave without a WA on 31/10 is now backtracking. IN any case, Farage has plenty of attack lines on Boris's past pledges.
So we now have this notion of "renegotiation" - Renegotiate what? With whom? The EU have made it abundantly clear the WA is there and it won't be changed. Some on the Conservative side still cling to the belief the EU will fold if we shout loud enough.
Boris has failed to come up with an alternative and the assumption that IF the EU offer another extension he will walk away is far from certain.
The Standard endorses Boris...
1) Negotiate Wonderful Jobs-First Brexit Full Of Rainbows And Loveliness.
2) Pass it subject to a binding referendum.
I don't think Remainiac voters will care too much about (1) as long as they have a weasel-free commitment to (2). (1) won't attract a huge number of leavers either but it at least gives candidates in very leavey seats a little bit of cover.
Obviously the LibDems will run on brexit being retarded and should be stopped with a People's Vote.
I really have no idea who would win a referendum like this, but as a Remain supporter I don't think I'd relish being represented by Corbyn and whatever LibDem against talented, audacious politicans like Boris and Farage.
I suspect it won't be 13% it will be higher. Oh and even 13% will be enough to loss a few essential seats...
Andrea Jenkyns suggested MPs from Michael Gove's camp tactically voted to prop up Rory Stewart in the second round before withdrawing from him yesterday."
(£)
https://www.telegraph.co.uk/politics/2019/06/20/tory-leadership-latest-news-vote-rory-stewart-boris-johnson/
Absolutely shocked I must say to learn that Johnny Mercer's friendly advice to the Saudis on not targeting civilians does not appear to have been heeded.
If Corbyn blocks a general election and blocks Brexit in October (assuming somehow the Commons can extend again without the support of the executive and without Macron vetoing further extension which I think unlikely) then Boris can rally Leavers behind him while Corbyn still sees defections of Remainers to the LDs.
The Brexit Party on 13% largely matches the UKIP total in 2015 which did not prevent a Tory majority (Indeed the Tories even won a few seats like Vale of Clwyd due to Labour defections to UKIP they lost in 2017)
Yes, there is an opportunity for Labour here.
Even swingeing tax raises for higher rate taxpayers probably won't put off Affluent Remainers. Excellent, if Jazza has the wit to take advantage of it.
Over 50% of 2017 Tories who voted voted Brexit Party in the European Parliament elections only 12% LD, it is clear on a forced choice it is the former the Tories must win back rather thsn the latter
Is there serious nepotism in the B&R Conservative Association or is everyone in that part of the world called Davies?
I don't believe you had any intention of voting Tory next time either way.
Only the DUP really care about the backstop but Boris will throw the DUP under the bus if he has to.
The No Deal fanatics represent no more than about 10% of the vote and the Brexit Party back to not much more than 10% enables a Boris overall majority
The ERG cares about the backstop and several ministers resigned over it. This is not only or even mainly a DUP issue.
As opposed to the LibDems in mid-Wales, who normally find some London-centric nonentity.
In a lot of the north that was until now the Tory candidate...
Not for die-in-the-ditch Remainers like Nigel Foremain but he is not under any circumstances voting Tory no matter who the leader is. That's like wondering whether Jo Swinson or Ed Davey is more likely to win Nigel Farage over to the Lib Dems. Neither will.
Boris asks for a General Election
that goes to a vote but Corbyn states that he wants a VoNC first.
Parliament rejects the General Election request
There is a VoNC...
There is an awful lot of things here that are very timing dependent
In this way it has some similarities with the jury system, where the ability of a jury to act on its "whims" is an important defence against authoritarianism.
Plus it would destroy his own line on the EU which until now has been to first and foremost get an election rather than back a second referendum. If he gets offered an election and turns it down where does he go from there?
Same place as pre-announcement last night..
Remember a PM has a few advantages during an election campaign - if Boris isn't PM those advantages are gone..
Boris (what underlying principles does he have?)
Gove (a radical who is into detail)
Hunt (wet blanket, but an entrepreneur)
The Saj (now taking the outsider spot)
The relationship between two drug addicted straight people is not equal to two law abiding gay people. But ranking relationships isn't a matter for the law.
All Boris has to say is we have Confidence in ourselves so will vote against any VONC but if you want an election vote for it. If Corbyn is then too frit to vote for an election he would be destroyed by both his own supporters and his opponents within the Labour Party.
British politics circa 2019
Same thing really.
Who cares? So long as the horses aren't frightened!
And TSE, in the closet? Quite the opposite.
After all why would you have a general election if you could lead a Government without an election...
I don't seek to impose my morals on you and what gives you the right to shove your morals down my throat? Morals should have NOTHING to do with laws.