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politicalbetting.com » Blog Archive » The real driver behind Johnson’s CON MP campaign has been Gavi

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  • DecrepitJohnLDecrepitJohnL Posts: 13,300
    kinabalu said:

    Einstein wasn't THAT bright. Plenty others brighter. David Willetts?

    One of the few pluses of Theresa May's hegemony is that we were no longer reminded on a fortnightly basis of David Cameron's top first in PPE and the brightest his tutor had known.
  • Richard_NabaviRichard_Nabavi Posts: 30,821

    Sorry if this has been answered before but is David Cameron (whose PPS GW once was) part of Team Boris? Cameron, like Boris, ducked debates, and for reasons I do not claim to understand, Cameron seemed far more relaxed about Boris campaigning for Leave than about Gove doing so.

    No, he definitely isn't.
  • kinabalukinabalu Posts: 42,237

    HR folk go on about such things. I usually ignore them, but apparently it is very important in heads of organisations.

    Is social intelligence the same as emotional intelligence? Sounds like it.

    Interestingly, given TM was apparently so lacking in it, women are supposed to be stronger on EQ than men. However men and women are equal on IQ.

    Putting this together means that women are mentally superior to men - one win and one draw.

    But of course men are physically superior.

    Therefore taking physical and mental attributes together, in the round and as a weighted average, the 2 main genders are dead equal to each other.

    PS:

    Memory, I would say, is strongly and positively correlated to intelligence and vice versa. I bet David Willetts, for example, has a very good memory.
  • AlastairMeeksAlastairMeeks Posts: 30,340
    PaulM said:

    Would have thought that the black arts of the whips office would be much less effective in a secret ballot rather than a recorded Parliamentary vote.

    You would know what motivates people, the carrot as well as the stick.
  • RogerRoger Posts: 19,914
    Cyclefree said:

    Ishmael_Z said:

    Cyclefree said:

    Ishmael_Z said:

    Cyclefree said:

    Ishmael_Z said:

    Thanks, that's an interesting and thought provoking read.

    I find Richard Leonard “interesting” and certainly “thought-provoking”, but hardly persuasive.

    This is most definitely a Richard Leonard thread. A bit of a Z-lister.
    I know there's general PB disdain for Williamson but he certainly seems effective in behind the scenes roles.

    It is perhaps another indictment of May's leadership that she moved him to a position he wasn't suited to.

    Boris, being idle but intelligent, might prove better at putting the square pegs in the square holes.
    Idle: accepted.

    But intelligent? According to Gove he has a memory like a sieve. How many intelligent people do you know who cannot remember an important conversation they had yesterday?
    1. How many books have you written?

    2. Einstein notoriously had a terrible memory.
    The false syllogism says hello.
    Sorry to sound dim but could you expressly state the false syllogism(s) you are talking about?
    Einstein was highly intelligent. Einstein had a terrible memory.

    I have a terrible memory. Therefore I’m highly intelligent.
    Dead wrong. I was replying to the implied syllogism

    No intelligent person has a bad memory
    Boris has a bad memory
    Therefore Boris is not an intelligent person

    by disproving the major premise. If you want it expanded into another syllogism

    Einstein was an intelligent person
    Einstein had a bad memory
    Therefore at least one intelligent person [therefore not "no intelligent person"] has a bad memory.
    Fair enough.

    I was responding to the suggestion that because both had a bad memory they were both intelligent.

    Boris may well be bright. But he seems to me to lack qualities of character, without which his intelligence is pointless and potentially dangerous. I have worked with many people like him in the City. More than a few ended up in trouble.

    Quite unsuitable for any position of leadership or responsibility. IMO.
    Judging the intelligence of successful people isn't always easy. I knew a copywriter who was on a salary of £ 160,000 at a time when that was a lot of money. He was Irish and not well educated but he had a skill for simple ideas and was responsible for a particularly well known beer campaign. But all he ever wanted to do was write stories or plays. He bombarded every publication and publisher for years and never got a single one published.
  • Philip_ThompsonPhilip_Thompson Posts: 65,826
    PaulM said:

    Would have thought that the black arts of the whips office would be much less effective in a secret ballot rather than a recorded Parliamentary vote.

    Effective whipping is more than just promises, threats and badgering.

    It is listening to people, understanding them, convincing them and yes making promises/threats accordingly.

    GW seems able to do all of it. That will be effective in a secret ballot. May's government since he left the whips office seemed to have a tin ear.
  • Philip_ThompsonPhilip_Thompson Posts: 65,826

    Sorry if this has been answered before but is David Cameron (whose PPS GW once was) part of Team Boris? Cameron, like Boris, ducked debates, and for reasons I do not claim to understand, Cameron seemed far more relaxed about Boris campaigning for Leave than about Gove doing so.

    No, he definitely isn't.
    Any source for that?
  • Richard_NabaviRichard_Nabavi Posts: 30,821
    I expect that Boris doesn't have a bad memory, it's more that he just doesn't pay attention, especially to someone who he thinks can't help his career.
  • Richard_NabaviRichard_Nabavi Posts: 30,821

    Sorry if this has been answered before but is David Cameron (whose PPS GW once was) part of Team Boris? Cameron, like Boris, ducked debates, and for reasons I do not claim to understand, Cameron seemed far more relaxed about Boris campaigning for Leave than about Gove doing so.

    No, he definitely isn't.
    Any source for that?
    Yes, but not ones I can reveal.
  • malcolmgmalcolmg Posts: 43,362
    GIN1138 said:

    malcolmg said:
    Evening Malc.

    Popcorn (and Irn Bru) on stand by for later? :D
    Evening Gin, Had visitors this afternoon , combine that with grandson getting me up at crack of dawn and I think I may be snoozing early. May be better after dinner mind you.
    Hope all well with you , and your Irn Bru is original recipe.
  • williamglennwilliamglenn Posts: 51,720
  • CyclefreeCyclefree Posts: 25,318
    Roger said:

    Cyclefree said:

    Ishmael_Z said:

    Cyclefree said:

    Ishmael_Z said:

    Cyclefree said:

    Ishmael_Z said:

    Thanks, that's an interesting and thought provoking read.

    Idle: accepted.

    But intelligent? According to Gove he has a memory like a sieve. How many intelligent people do you know who cannot remember an important conversation they had yesterday?
    1. How many books have you written?

    2. Einstein notoriously had a terrible memory.
    The false syllogism says hello.
    Sorry to sound dim but could you expressly state the false syllogism(s) you are talking about?
    Einstein was highly intelligent. Einstein had a terrible memory.

    I have a terrible memory. Therefore I’m highly intelligent.
    Dead wrong. I was replying to the implied syllogism

    No intelligent person has a bad memory
    Boris has a bad memory
    Therefore Boris is not an intelligent person

    by disproving the major premise. If you want it expanded into another syllogism

    Einstein was an intelligent person
    Einstein had a bad memory
    Therefore at least one intelligent person [therefore not "no intelligent person"] has a bad memory.
    Fair enough.

    I was responding to the suggestion that because both had a bad memory they were both intelligent.

    Boris may well be bright. But he seems to me to lack qualities of character, without which his intelligence is pointless and potentially dangerous. I have worked with many people like him in the City. More than a few ended up in trouble.

    Quite unsuitable for any position of leadership or responsibility. IMO.
    Judging the intelligence of successful people isn't always easy. I knew a copywriter who was on a salary of £ 160,000 at a time when that was a lot of money. He was Irish and not well educated but he had a skill for simple ideas and was responsible for a particularly well known beer campaign. But all he ever wanted to do was write stories or plays. He bombarded every publication and publisher for years and never got a single one published.
    £160,000 still is a lot of money, @Roger!

    Were his stories any good?
  • nico67nico67 Posts: 4,502
    Cyclefree said:

    I

    nico67 said:

    Whilst the UK media were obsessed with the Tory leadership challenge a report on the effects of no deal on Northern Ireland came and went .

    In a nutshell an economic catastrophe . NI economy has a huge amount of SMEs and this sector will be obliterated with a no deal , farming likely to go to the wall aswell.

    Even if you could put some arrangements in close to the border , the cost of customs compliance means many businesses couldn’t afford that .

    Whats astonishing is that some in the DUP like Sammy Wilson couldn’t care less about no deal, even though business after business there are panicking . It’s despicable that the DUP will become the handmaidens of no deal and will be giving a green light to huge job losses of the constituents they’re supposed to serve .

    Notwithstanding the effects on the peace process .

    Many things are likely to be sacrificed on the altar of Brexit but it’s shameful that 20 years of peace could be thrown into jeopardy because of that .

    No Deal Brexiteers are risking people’s lives in NI.

    “Shameful” is far too polite a word to describe that.
    Did you see the polling on that .

    Tragic , so many Leavers couldn’t care less if Brexit caused a return of the troubles .

    And two thirds of Leave voters prioritize Brexit over keeping the UK together . So given a choice they’d be happy to see the end of the UK , on the world stage what would be left .

    So much for Global Britain ! And these people have the gall to question the patriotism of Remainers .
  • kinabalukinabalu Posts: 42,237
    Cyclefree said:

    What have you got against @rcs1000’s mother-in-law?

    :smile:

    In my experience (which I'm afraid extends beyond the singular) mothers-in-law are delightful individuals. Pity they are almost always married.
  • FrancisUrquhartFrancisUrquhart Posts: 82,133
    Cyclefree said:

    Roger said:

    Cyclefree said:

    Ishmael_Z said:

    Cyclefree said:

    Ishmael_Z said:

    Cyclefree said:

    Ishmael_Z said:

    Thanks, that's an interesting and thought provoking read.

    Idle: accepted.

    But intelligent? According to Gove he has a memory like a sieve. How many intelligent people do you know who cannot remember an important conversation they had yesterday?
    1. How many books have you written?

    2. Einstein notoriously had a terrible memory.
    The false syllogism says hello.
    Sorry to sound dim but could you expressly state the false syllogism(s) you are talking about?
    Einstein was highly intelligent. Einstein had a terrible memory.

    I have a terrible memory. Therefore I’m highly intelligent.
    Dead wrong. I was replying to the implied syllogism

    No intelligent person has a bad memory
    Boris has a bad memory
    Therefore Boris is not an intelligent person

    by disproving the major premise. If you want it expanded into another syllogism

    Einstein was an intelligent person
    Einstein had a bad memory
    Therefore at least one intelligent person [therefore not "no intelligent person"] has a bad memory.
    Fair enough.

    I was responding to the suggestion that because both had a bad memory they were both intelligent.

    Boris may well be bright. But he seems to me to lack qualities of character, without which his intelligence is pointless and potentially dangerous. I have worked with many people like him in the City. More than a few ended up in trouble.

    Quite unsuitable for any position of leadership or responsibility. IMO.
    Judging the intelligence of successful people isn't always easy. I knew a copywriter who was on a salary of £ 160,000 at a time when that was a lot of money. He was Irish and not well educated but he had a skill for simple ideas and was responsible for a particularly well known beer campaign. But all he ever wanted to do was write stories or plays. He bombarded every publication and publisher for years and never got a single one published.
    £160,000 still is a lot of money, @Roger!

    Were his stories any good?
    Rog...man of the people.
  • FrancisUrquhartFrancisUrquhart Posts: 82,133

    Plus ça change.

    twitter.com/JamesMelville/status/1139935613757591552

    But still won a scholarship to Oxford.....
  • kinabalukinabalu Posts: 42,237
    edited June 2019

    One of the few pluses of Theresa May's hegemony is that we were no longer reminded on a fortnightly basis of David Cameron's top first in PPE and the brightest his tutor had known.

    DC was very bright, no question. He could have done with a bit less insouciance, though, IMO. Perhaps this came from his 'Born To Rule' social and educational background. Not ideal for a PM. Hopefully we won't make that mistake again.
  • FrancisUrquhartFrancisUrquhart Posts: 82,133
    edited June 2019
    kinabalu said:

    One of the few pluses of Theresa May's hegemony is that we were no longer reminded on a fortnightly basis of David Cameron's top first in PPE and the brightest his tutor had known.

    DC was very bright, no question. He could have done with a bit less insouciance, though, IMO. Perhaps that came from his 'Born To Rule' social and educational background. Not ideal, that, for a PM. Hopefully we won't make that mistake again.
    Cameron's approach was akin to a CEO of a company. He was the face of the "company", did the Tim Cook style rar rar speeches setting out vision, but left people who knew better to do their jobs. Regardless of policies / politics, I don't think that is a bad thing.

    He left people in jobs where they were doing well (rather than Blair's constant reshuffles), according to all the civil servants he always did his red box on time and generally the mechanics of government worked well (unlike under Gordo where masses of stuff piled up as he demanded micro managing everything and couldn't make decisions on everything fast enough).

    ...and then came Brexit referendum decision....
  • Morris_DancerMorris_Dancer Posts: 61,806
    Mr. kinabalu, there's far greater variance within a gender than between them.
  • williamglennwilliamglenn Posts: 51,720

    kinabalu said:

    Einstein wasn't THAT bright. Plenty others brighter. David Willetts?

    One of the few pluses of Theresa May's hegemony is that we were no longer reminded on a fortnightly basis of David Cameron's top first in PPE and the brightest his tutor had known.
    Talking of which, Vernon Bogdanor's solution is for Ireland to show "generosity" instead of "intransigence" in order to "renew the good relations between Britain and Ireland that have been so badly damaged by the Brexit process".

    https://www.theguardian.com/commentisfree/2019/jun/13/suspending-parliament-break-brexit-deadlock-stretch-constitution
  • Casino_RoyaleCasino_Royale Posts: 60,491
    This superb article by Katy Balls is essential reading for anyone betting on the Tory leadership election:

    https://www.spectator.co.uk/2019/06/an-early-election-is-beginning-to-look-inevitable-for-the-next-tory-leader/
  • JonathanJonathan Posts: 21,675
    For all his alleged ability Cameron was a fool, he bought his own hype.
  • RogerRoger Posts: 19,914
    Cyclefree said:

    Roger said:

    Cyclefree said:

    Ishmael_Z said:

    Cyclefree said:

    Ishmael_Z said:

    Cyclefree said:

    Ishmael_Z said:

    Thanks, that's an interesting and thought provoking read.



    But intelligent? According to Gove he has a memory like a sieve. How many intelligent people do you know who cannot remember an important conversation they had yesterday?
    1. How many books have you written?

    2. Einstein notoriously had a terrible memory.
    The false syllogism says hello.
    Sorry to sound dim but could you expressly state the false syllogism(s) you are talking about?
    Einstein was highly intelligent. Einstein had a terrible memory.

    I have a terrible memory. Therefore I’m highly intelligent.
    Dead wrong. I was replying to the implied syllogism

    No intelligent person has a bad memory
    Boris has a bad memory
    Therefore Boris is not an intelligent person

    by disproving the major premise. If you want it expanded into another syllogism

    Einstein was an intelligent person
    Einstein had a bad memory
    Therefore at least one intelligent person [therefore not "no intelligent person"] has a bad memory.
    Fair enough.

    I was responding to the suggestion that because both had a bad memory they were both intelligent.

    Boris may well be bright. But he seems to me to lack qualities of character, without which his intelligence is pointless and potentially dangerous. I have worked with many people like him in the City. More than a few ended up in trouble.

    Quite unsuitable for any position of leadership or responsibility. IMO.
    Judging the intelligence of successful people isn't always easy. I knew a copywriter who was on a salary of £ 160,000 at a time when that was a lot of money. He was Irish and not well educated but he had a skill for simple ideas and was responsible for a particularly well known beer campaign. But all he ever wanted to do was write stories or plays. He bombarded every publication and publisher for years and never got a single one published.
    £160,000 still is a lot of money, @Roger!

    Were his stories any good?
    I never read any. I rather doubt it. He just had a facility for very simple ideas which made successful ads. I never could work out whether thinking of simple ideas was not a particular skill or whether he just happened to have a particular facility which most people don't have. Have a break....Have a Kit Kat doesn't sound difficult.
  • RogerRoger Posts: 19,914
    malcolmg said:

    GIN1138 said:

    malcolmg said:
    Evening Malc.

    Popcorn (and Irn Bru) on stand by for later? :D
    Evening Gin, Had visitors this afternoon , combine that with grandson getting me up at crack of dawn and I think I may be snoozing early. May be better after dinner mind you.
    Hope all well with you , and your Irn Bru is original recipe.
    One I prepared earlier for Malc

    https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=CWG43VGvuCc&feature=youtu.be
  • Casino_RoyaleCasino_Royale Posts: 60,491
    If I had twenty-one Big Ones to spare (I don't) I'd hoover up that money looking to back Rory Stewart at 22 on Betfair right now.

    You'd be a grand up inside a fortnight.
  • kinabalukinabalu Posts: 42,237

    Mr. kinabalu, there's far greater variance within a gender than between them.

    Of course. Ditto with most other 'characteristics' - eg race.

    We are all pretty much the same.

    Or rather we're not, but you know what I mean.
  • TheuniondivvieTheuniondivvie Posts: 42,005
    edited June 2019

    Plus ça change.

    twitter.com/JamesMelville/status/1139935613757591552

    But still won a scholarship to Oxford.....
    and after 4 years 'was deeply unhappy he did not receive a first'.

    How churlish of them not to recognise him as exceptional.
  • PhukovPhukov Posts: 132
    I've gone all in on Boris. Even if there is some nasty revelation, he's already home.
  • Casino_RoyaleCasino_Royale Posts: 60,491
    kinabalu said:

    One of the few pluses of Theresa May's hegemony is that we were no longer reminded on a fortnightly basis of David Cameron's top first in PPE and the brightest his tutor had known.

    DC was very bright, no question. He could have done with a bit less insouciance, though, IMO. Perhaps this came from his 'Born To Rule' social and educational background. Not ideal for a PM. Hopefully we won't make that mistake again.
    DC also worked hard. Boris won't.

    Boris might have a chance for PM as a time as a sort of constitutional monarch, but the machinery of Government is going to have to build layers around him to keep the basic administration of the nation going.

    He will also tend to be poorly briefed and prepared for international summits and negotiations, which will damage our trade and national interests.

    And God knows how he will deal with sudden "Events", as there will be definitely be some.
  • FrancisUrquhartFrancisUrquhart Posts: 82,133
    edited June 2019

    Plus ça change.

    twitter.com/JamesMelville/status/1139935613757591552

    But still won a scholarship to Oxford.....
    and 'was deeply unhappy he did not receive a first'.

    How churlish of them not to recognise him as exceptional.
    If I had to guess, I would say Boris was one of those kids who found pre-university education very easy and then peaked. A way with words that enables you to construct fancy sounding essays can only get you so far.
  • malcolmgmalcolmg Posts: 43,362
    Roger said:

    malcolmg said:

    GIN1138 said:

    malcolmg said:
    Evening Malc.

    Popcorn (and Irn Bru) on stand by for later? :D
    Evening Gin, Had visitors this afternoon , combine that with grandson getting me up at crack of dawn and I think I may be snoozing early. May be better after dinner mind you.
    Hope all well with you , and your Irn Bru is original recipe.
    One I prepared earlier for Malc

    https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=CWG43VGvuCc&feature=youtu.be
    Hmm, that would wake me up right enough
  • kle4kle4 Posts: 96,163
    If he is even 1/4 as bright as he thinks he is, then he knows a GE is a very high possibility given what he claims is his plan A is so unlikely, and plan B will face titanic opposition. So he would be a fool not to be fighting one already. Plus when others attack him inthe contest he'll talk about Corbyn instead, the real enemy.
    Phukov said:

    I've gone all in on Boris. Even if there is some nasty revelation, he's already home.

    It would appear so, unfortuantely.
  • HYUFDHYUFD Posts: 123,156
    edited June 2019

    Plus ça change.

    twitter.com/JamesMelville/status/1139935613757591552

    But still won a scholarship to Oxford.....
    and 'was deeply unhappy he did not receive a first'.

    How churlish of them not to recognise him as exceptional.
    Of the 5 out of 14 PMs since WW2 who have achieved first class degrees, Eden, Macmillan, Wilson, Brown and Cameron (all Oxford graduates bar Brown who went to Edinburgh) nothing marked them out as particularly great PMs bar having that academic distinction. Indeed while Macmillan, Wilson and Cameron can be said to be above average, Eden and Brown were arguably the worst PMs since the War.


    Of our 3 greatest postwar PMs, Attlee, Churchill (based mainly on his war leadership admittedly) and Thatcher none of them achieved a first and Churchill did not even go to university.
  • kinabalukinabalu Posts: 42,237

    Cameron's approach was akin to a CEO of a company. He was the face of the "company", did the Tim Cook style rar rar speeches setting out vision, but left people who knew better to do their jobs. Regardless of policies / politics, I don't think that is a bad thing.

    He left people in jobs where they were doing well (rather than Blair's constant reshuffles), according to all the civil servants he always did his red box on time and generally the mechanics of government worked well (unlike under Gordo where masses of stuff piled up as he demanded micro managing everything and couldn't make decisions on everything fast enough).

    ...and then came Brexit referendum decision....

    Very able man and a perfectly OK prime minister (for a tory).

    I would, however, prefer that our leaders were drawn from a wider pool.

    Our next one, for example, will be the very worst of that 'type'. An essentially vacuous, self regarding, entitled poshboy. All of Cameron's negatives without the mitigating positives.
  • CyclefreeCyclefree Posts: 25,318

    Plus ça change.

    twitter.com/JamesMelville/status/1139935613757591552

    But still won a scholarship to Oxford.....
    and 'was deeply unhappy he did not receive a first'.

    How churlish of them not to recognise him as exceptional.
    If I had to guess, I would say Boris was one of those kids who found pre-university education very easy and then peaked. A way with words that enables you to construct fancy sounding essays can only get you so far.
    His articles in the Telegraph are nothing special, frankly.

  • DecrepitJohnLDecrepitJohnL Posts: 13,300
    PaulM said:

    Would have thought that the black arts of the whips office would be much less effective in a secret ballot rather than a recorded Parliamentary vote.

    It might not be so much the dark arts as what in the real world would be bog standard project management techniques: planning, checklists, timetables and so on. Probably normal for the whips office but unknown to many at Westminster.
  • CharlesCharles Posts: 35,758
    rcs1000 said:

    kinabalu said:

    Mum anecdote.

    My mum voted Conservative all of her life until 2013, 2014 and 2015, when she flipped to Ukip. Back to Tory in 2017. She's not very political, but having voted Leave in 2016 has to turn the television off now when she hears Grieve, Soubry, Lammy and Stewart. She voted Brexit Party in 2019.

    Boris will likely bring her back. If he delivers...

    I would argue that if your mum has to turn off the TV whenever it features politicians whose views are anathema to her then she is VERY political.

    Mine OTOH genuinely does have zero interest in politics. Too busy watching reruns of Midsomer Murders. The old ones with John Nettles. Doesn't like the new guy.
    My wife likes the old Midsomer Murders too. She is also resolutely apolitical.

    That being said, she did vote Remain, because she was worried about her (Portuguese passport holding) mother being sent home. Personally, I only voted Leave to get rid of the mother-in-law.
    And when that failed moved to California...
  • HYUFDHYUFD Posts: 123,156
    edited June 2019
    Martin Hammond was my old Headmaster, though I think even he would recognise Boris' classics abilities surfaced later on
  • kle4kle4 Posts: 96,163
    Cyclefree said:

    Plus ça change.

    twitter.com/JamesMelville/status/1139935613757591552

    But still won a scholarship to Oxford.....
    and 'was deeply unhappy he did not receive a first'.

    How churlish of them not to recognise him as exceptional.
    If I had to guess, I would say Boris was one of those kids who found pre-university education very easy and then peaked. A way with words that enables you to construct fancy sounding essays can only get you so far.
    His articles in the Telegraph are nothing special, frankly.

    There are only so many ways one can write the same vaguely posh sounding bluster and waffling.
  • MarqueeMarkMarqueeMark Posts: 52,617
    HYUFD said:

    Martin Hammond was my old Headmaster, though I think even he would recognise Boris' classics abilities surfaced later on
    Anyone who gets to become PM will have had the last laugh......
  • Morris_DancerMorris_Dancer Posts: 61,806
    Mr. Mark, few people now remember Pertinax.
  • Sunil_PrasannanSunil_Prasannan Posts: 51,884
    GIN1138 said:

    malcolmg said:
    Evening Malc.

    Popcorn (and Irn Bru) on stand by for later? :D
    Deep-Fried Unionist, surely :lol:
  • TheuniondivvieTheuniondivvie Posts: 42,005

    HYUFD said:

    Martin Hammond was my old Headmaster, though I think even he would recognise Boris' classics abilities surfaced later on
    Anyone who gets to become PM will have had the last laugh......
    Not sure that there's been a whole lot of laughing going on at chez May.
  • justin124justin124 Posts: 11,527
    Roger said:

    justin124 said:

    Farron indirectly raises a key question looking ahead.

    How long before Labour members/unions gets really restless at being stuck at 3rd in the polling?

    No HM Opposition Leader has ever survived that for long have they?

    In two polls Labour is in 1st place though!
    It's time for labour voters like you and me to realise our most important task is to get rid of Boris. However much of a diehard Corbynista anyone is they must know by now there's no way he's ever going to win an election. Even against a clown like Boris.
    I will not be a Labour voter at the GE - regardless of who is the leader.
  • justin124justin124 Posts: 11,527
    kinabalu said:

    One of the few pluses of Theresa May's hegemony is that we were no longer reminded on a fortnightly basis of David Cameron's top first in PPE and the brightest his tutor had known.

    DC was very bright, no question. He could have done with a bit less insouciance, though, IMO. Perhaps this came from his 'Born To Rule' social and educational background. Not ideal for a PM. Hopefully we won't make that mistake again.
    Not as bright as Harold Wilson .
  • kle4kle4 Posts: 96,163
    justin124 said:

    Roger said:

    justin124 said:

    Farron indirectly raises a key question looking ahead.

    How long before Labour members/unions gets really restless at being stuck at 3rd in the polling?

    No HM Opposition Leader has ever survived that for long have they?

    In two polls Labour is in 1st place though!
    It's time for labour voters like you and me to realise our most important task is to get rid of Boris. However much of a diehard Corbynista anyone is they must know by now there's no way he's ever going to win an election. Even against a clown like Boris.
    I will not be a Labour voter at the GE - regardless of who is the leader.
    Let's see if you still feel that way in 3 months when the election is called.
  • Scott_PScott_P Posts: 51,453

    Anyone who gets to become PM will have had the last laugh......

    Interesting thread on that very topic...

    https://twitter.com/HickeyWriter/status/1139925456231260160

    As noted here previously, the leader of the Tory party does not necessarily command a majority in the HoC, and is therefore not PM.
  • GIN1138GIN1138 Posts: 22,293
    malcolmg said:

    GIN1138 said:

    malcolmg said:
    Evening Malc.

    Popcorn (and Irn Bru) on stand by for later? :D
    Evening Gin, Had visitors this afternoon , combine that with grandson getting me up at crack of dawn and I think I may be snoozing early. May be better after dinner mind you.
    Hope all well with you , and your Irn Bru is original recipe.
    Yes I'm good thanks Malc. :)
  • PhukovPhukov Posts: 132
    edited June 2019
    HYUFD said:

    Plus ça change.

    Martin Hammond was my old Headmaster, though I think even he would recognise Boris' classics abilities surfaced later on
    "Times are bad. Children no longer obey their parents, and everyone is writing a book." — Cicero
  • rottenboroughrottenborough Posts: 62,772
    edited June 2019
    Roger said:

    Cyclefree said:

    Roger said:

    Cyclefree said:

    Ishmael_Z said:

    Cyclefree said:

    Ishmael_Z said:

    Cyclefree said:

    Ishmael_Z said:

    Thanks, that's an interesting and thought provoking read.



    But intelligent? According to Gove he has a memory like a sieve. How many intelligent people do you know who cannot remember an important conversation they had yesterday?
    1. How many books have you written?

    2. Einstein notoriously had a terrible memory.
    The false syllogism says hello.
    Sorry to sound dim but could you expressly state the false syllogism(s) you are talking about?
    Einstein was highly intelligent. Einstein had a terrible memory.

    I have a terrible memory. Therefore I’m highly intelligent.
    Dead wrong. I was replying to the implied syllogism

    snip rson [therefore not "no intelligent person"] has a bad memory.
    Fair enough.

    I was responding to the suggestion that because both had a bad memory they were both intelligent.

    Boris may well be bright. But he seems to me to lack qualities of character, without which his intelligence is pointless and potentially dangerous. I have worked with many people like him in the City. More than a few ended up in trouble.

    Quite unsuitable for any position of leadership or responsibility. IMO.
    Judging the intelligence of successful people isn't always easy. I knew a copywriter who was on a salary of £ 160,000 at a time when that was a lot of money. He was Irish and not well educated but he had a skill for simple ideas and was responsible for a particularly well known beer campaign. But all he ever wanted to do was write stories or plays. He bombarded every publication and publisher for years and never got a single one published.
    £160,000 still is a lot of money, @Roger!

    Were his stories any good?
    I never read any. I rather doubt it. He just had a facility for very simple ideas which made successful ads. I never could work out whether thinking of simple ideas was not a particular skill or whether he just happened to have a particular facility which most people don't have. Have a break....Have a Kit Kat doesn't sound difficult.
    Advertising is full of copy people who want to be novelists etc etc. Richard Yates as one example.

    "Go to work on an egg" is another famous example of the simple art.
  • mattmatt Posts: 3,789
    edited June 2019
    justin124 said:

    kinabalu said:

    One of the few pluses of Theresa May's hegemony is that we were no longer reminded on a fortnightly basis of David Cameron's top first in PPE and the brightest his tutor had known.

    DC was very bright, no question. He could have done with a bit less insouciance, though, IMO. Perhaps this came from his 'Born To Rule' social and educational background. Not ideal for a PM. Hopefully we won't make that mistake again.
    Not as bright as Harold Wilson .
    Harold Wilson died (metaphorically, obv) in 1976. He’s been irrelevant for over 40 years.

    Edit. He also forced through the sale of commercially and militarily secret RR turbojet engines to the USSR on the basis that they were our perpetual friends. Reversed engineered to beyond. Not that globally aware.
  • kinabalukinabalu Posts: 42,237
    Roger said:

    I never read any. I rather doubt it. He just had a facility for very simple ideas which made successful ads. I never could work out whether thinking of simple ideas was not a particular skill or whether he just happened to have a particular facility which most people don't have. Have a break....Have a Kit Kat doesn't sound difficult.

    Go to work on an egg?

    Some say that was the best thing Fay Weldon ever wrote. Not me I hasten to add.

    I met her once on a train.
  • justin124justin124 Posts: 11,527
    HYUFD said:

    Plus ça change.

    twitter.com/JamesMelville/status/1139935613757591552

    But still won a scholarship to Oxford.....
    and 'was deeply unhappy he did not receive a first'.

    How churlish of them not to recognise him as exceptional.
    Of the 5 out of 14 PMs since WW2 who have achieved first class degrees, Eden, Macmillan, Wilson, Brown and Cameron (all Oxford graduates bar Brown who went to Edinburgh) nothing marked them out as particularly great PMs bar having that academic distinction. Indeed while Macmillan, Wilson and Cameron can be said to be above average, Eden and Brown were arguably the worst PMs since the War.


    Of our 3 greatest postwar PMs, Attlee, Churchill (based mainly on his war leadership admittedly) and Thatcher none of them achieved a first and Churchill did not even go to university.
    I don't think Macmillan graduated - despite achieving a First in Moderations.
  • justin124justin124 Posts: 11,527
    edited June 2019
    kle4 said:

    justin124 said:

    Roger said:

    justin124 said:

    Farron indirectly raises a key question looking ahead.

    How long before Labour members/unions gets really restless at being stuck at 3rd in the polling?

    No HM Opposition Leader has ever survived that for long have they?

    In two polls Labour is in 1st place though!
    It's time for labour voters like you and me to realise our most important task is to get rid of Boris. However much of a diehard Corbynista anyone is they must know by now there's no way he's ever going to win an election. Even against a clown like Boris.
    I will not be a Labour voter at the GE - regardless of who is the leader.
    Let's see if you still feel that way in 3 months when the election is called.
    I am firmly committed to spoiling my ballot paper - nothing to do with Corbyn or Brexit. I have persuaded three other voters to do likewise.
  • initforthemoneyinitforthemoney Posts: 736
    edited June 2019
    Cricket.....in the unlikely event that SA qualify for the last four there is a high probability that run rate would be a determining factor (even if they won all their remaining games). So why are they trundling along at 4.5 an over when chasing 127 against a mediocre attack?
  • RogerRoger Posts: 19,914
    justin124 said:

    Roger said:

    justin124 said:

    Farron indirectly raises a key question looking ahead.

    How long before Labour members/unions gets really restless at being stuck at 3rd in the polling?

    No HM Opposition Leader has ever survived that for long have they?

    In two polls Labour is in 1st place though!
    It's time for labour voters like you and me to realise our most important task is to get rid of Boris. However much of a diehard Corbynista anyone is they must know by now there's no way he's ever going to win an election. Even against a clown like Boris.
    I will not be a Labour voter at the GE - regardless of who is the leader.
    Giving up your British citizenship? If so I don't blame you. The UK is not the place it once was. Nonetheless the Labour leader should be gathering all anti Boris MP's now to try to nip his premiership in the bud before he takes hold. Then his job will be done and he can graze somewhere and look after his allotment .
  • justin124justin124 Posts: 11,527
    Roger said:

    justin124 said:

    Roger said:

    justin124 said:

    Farron indirectly raises a key question looking ahead.

    How long before Labour members/unions gets really restless at being stuck at 3rd in the polling?

    No HM Opposition Leader has ever survived that for long have they?

    In two polls Labour is in 1st place though!
    It's time for labour voters like you and me to realise our most important task is to get rid of Boris. However much of a diehard Corbynista anyone is they must know by now there's no way he's ever going to win an election. Even against a clown like Boris.
    I will not be a Labour voter at the GE - regardless of who is the leader.
    Giving up your British citizenship? If so I don't blame you. The UK is not the place it once was. Nonetheless the Labour leader should be gathering all anti Boris MP's now to try to nip his premiership in the bud before he takes hold. Then his job will be done and he can graze somewhere and look after his allotment .
    I will not vote for a gender- vetted candidate on principle.
  • IanB2IanB2 Posts: 49,869
    justin124 said:

    kle4 said:

    justin124 said:

    Roger said:

    justin124 said:

    Farron indirectly raises a key question looking ahead.

    How long before Labour members/unions gets really restless at being stuck at 3rd in the polling?

    No HM Opposition Leader has ever survived that for long have they?

    In two polls Labour is in 1st place though!
    It's time for labour voters like you and me to realise our most important task is to get rid of Boris. However much of a diehard Corbynista anyone is they must know by now there's no way he's ever going to win an election. Even against a clown like Boris.
    I will not be a Labour voter at the GE - regardless of who is the leader.
    Let's see if you still feel that way in 3 months when the election is called.
    I am firmly committed to spoiling my ballot paper - nothing to do with Corbyn or Brexit. I have persuaded three other voters to do likewise.
    With four spoiled ballot papers, surely the election will be declared invalid.
  • mattmatt Posts: 3,789
    edited June 2019
    justin124 said:

    kle4 said:

    justin124 said:

    Roger said:

    justin124 said:

    Farron indirectly raises a key question looking ahead.

    How long before Labour members/unions gets really restless at being stuck at 3rd in the polling?

    No HM Opposition Leader has ever survived that for long have they?

    In two polls Labour is in 1st place though!
    It's time for labour voters like you and me to realise our most important task is to get rid of Boris. However much of a diehard Corbynista anyone is they must know by now there's no way he's ever going to win an election. Even against a clown like Boris.
    I will not be a Labour voter at the GE - regardless of who is the leader.
    Let's see if you still feel that way in 3 months when the election is called.
    I am firmly committed to spoiling my ballot paper - nothing to do with Corbyn or Brexit. I have persuaded three other voters to do likewise.
    One suspects that they’ve agreed with you to make you go away.
  • RogerRoger Posts: 19,914

    This superb article by Katy Balls is essential reading for anyone betting on the Tory leadership election:

    https://www.spectator.co.uk/2019/06/an-early-election-is-beginning-to-look-inevitable-for-the-next-tory-leader/

    She was on Radio 4 yesterday saying much the same. I got the impression she didn't like or rate Boris but that doesn't really come across in the article
  • justin124justin124 Posts: 11,527
    Unless the FTPA is repealed, an election in the Autumn would imply a Parliament of just four and a half years with the following GE due in May 2024.
  • nichomarnichomar Posts: 7,483
    matt said:

    justin124 said:

    kinabalu said:

    One of the few pluses of Theresa May's hegemony is that we were no longer reminded on a fortnightly basis of David Cameron's top first in PPE and the brightest his tutor had known.

    DC was very bright, no question. He could have done with a bit less insouciance, though, IMO. Perhaps this came from his 'Born To Rule' social and educational background. Not ideal for a PM. Hopefully we won't make that mistake again.
    Not as bright as Harold Wilson .
    Harold Wilson died (metaphorically, obv) in 1976. He’s been irrelevant for over 40 years.

    Edit. He also forced through the sale of commercially and militarily secret RR turbojet engines to the USSR on the basis that they were our perpetual friends. Reversed engineered to beyond. Not that globally aware.
    Not at all he presented my wife with her degree but couldn’t turn up for mine three months later
  • StuartDicksonStuartDickson Posts: 12,146

    kinabalu said:

    Einstein wasn't THAT bright. Plenty others brighter. David Willetts?

    One of the few pluses of Theresa May's hegemony is that we were no longer reminded on a fortnightly basis of David Cameron's top first in PPE and the brightest his tutor had known.
    Talking of which, Vernon Bogdanor's solution is for Ireland to show "generosity" instead of "intransigence" in order to "renew the good relations between Britain and Ireland that have been so badly damaged by the Brexit process".

    https://www.theguardian.com/commentisfree/2019/jun/13/suspending-parliament-break-brexit-deadlock-stretch-constitution
    One of the few pleasures of Brexit has been watching Ireland run rings round their old tormentors England.
  • mattmatt Posts: 3,789
    F
    nichomar said:

    matt said:

    justin124 said:

    kinabalu said:

    One of the few pluses of Theresa May's hegemony is that we were no longer reminded on a fortnightly basis of David Cameron's top first in PPE and the brightest his tutor had known.

    DC was very bright, no question. He could have done with a bit less insouciance, though, IMO. Perhaps this came from his 'Born To Rule' social and educational background. Not ideal for a PM. Hopefully we won't make that mistake again.
    Not as bright as Harold Wilson .
    Harold Wilson died (metaphorically, obv) in 1976. He’s been irrelevant for over 40 years.

    Edit. He also forced through the sale of commercially and militarily secret RR turbojet engines to the USSR on the basis that they were our perpetual friends. Reversed engineered to beyond. Not that globally aware.
    Not at all he presented my wife with her degree but couldn’t turn up for mine three months later
    ? Politically irrelevant. I’ve no doubt he did a good line in handing out degree certificates.
  • RogerRoger Posts: 19,914
    kinabalu said:

    Roger said:

    I never read any. I rather doubt it. He just had a facility for very simple ideas which made successful ads. I never could work out whether thinking of simple ideas was not a particular skill or whether he just happened to have a particular facility which most people don't have. Have a break....Have a Kit Kat doesn't sound difficult.

    Go to work on an egg?

    Some say that was the best thing Fay Weldon ever wrote. Not me I hasten to add.

    I met her once on a train.
    It was the most memorable thing she ever wrote. If the secret of a good line is one that is remembered 50 years later then there aren't many better than Fay's. Anyway it was a great line as was Have a Break......
  • IanB2IanB2 Posts: 49,869
    justin124 said:

    Unless the FTPA is repealed, an election in the Autumn would imply a Parliament of just four and a half years with the following GE due in May 2024.

    Boris won’t be able to open the new runway at Heathrow, even if he wins.
  • RogerRoger Posts: 19,914
    justin124 said:

    Roger said:

    justin124 said:

    Roger said:

    justin124 said:

    Farron indirectly raises a key question looking ahead.

    How long before Labour members/unions gets really restless at being stuck at 3rd in the polling?

    No HM Opposition Leader has ever survived that for long have they?

    In two polls Labour is in 1st place though!
    It's time for labour voters like you and me to realise our most important task is to get rid of Boris. However much of a diehard Corbynista anyone is they must know by now there's no way he's ever going to win an election. Even against a clown like Boris.
    I will not be a Labour voter at the GE - regardless of who is the leader.
    Giving up your British citizenship? If so I don't blame you. The UK is not the place it once was. Nonetheless the Labour leader should be gathering all anti Boris MP's now to try to nip his premiership in the bud before he takes hold. Then his job will be done and he can graze somewhere and look after his allotment .
    I will not vote for a gender- vetted candidate on principle.
    I'm sure I should understand but I don't. In way was he gender vetted?
  • DecrepitJohnLDecrepitJohnL Posts: 13,300
    HYUFD said:

    Indeed while Macmillan, Wilson and Cameron can be said to be above average, Eden and Brown were arguably the worst PMs since the War.

    Cameron was the worst prime minister since Lord North, let alone the war. He almost lost Scotland; he did lose Europe. His government also gave us the debacle of Lansley's NHS changes and the fiasco of IDS's universal credit. He did at least look prime ministerial, so there is that.
  • rottenboroughrottenborough Posts: 62,772
    Meanwhile in Trump's home town:

    June is only half over, and already this month seven innocent bystanders have been struck by bullets, two fatally, around the city.

    https://nypost.com/2019/06/13/run-for-cover-nyc-innocents-being-shot-at-an-alarming-rate/
  • nichomarnichomar Posts: 7,483
    Why is it his fault he isn’t responsible for all of the budget, he raised council tax by the maximum amount to fund the police. I am told there has been a reduction of 3000 because of central government cutbacks so I fail to understand why it is his fault.
  • justin124justin124 Posts: 11,527
    Roger said:

    justin124 said:

    Roger said:

    justin124 said:

    Roger said:

    justin124 said:

    Farron indirectly raises a key question looking ahead.

    How long before Labour members/unions gets really restless at being stuck at 3rd in the polling?

    No HM Opposition Leader has ever survived that for long have they?

    In two polls Labour is in 1st place though!
    It's time for labour voters like you and me to realise our most important task is to get rid of Boris. However much of a diehard Corbynista anyone is they must know by now there's no way he's ever going to win an election. Even against a clown like Boris.
    I will not be a Labour voter at the GE - regardless of who is the leader.
    Giving up your British citizenship? If so I don't blame you. The UK is not the place it once was. Nonetheless the Labour leader should be gathering all anti Boris MP's now to try to nip his premiership in the bud before he takes hold. Then his job will be done and he can graze somewhere and look after his allotment .
    I will not vote for a gender- vetted candidate on principle.
    I'm sure I should understand but I don't. In way was he gender vetted?
    The Labour candidate in my seat was selected from an All Woman Shortlist. I have strongly objected to this since it was first introduced under Blair in the mid-1990s.
  • nichomarnichomar Posts: 7,483
    matt said:

    F

    nichomar said:

    matt said:

    justin124 said:

    kinabalu said:

    One of the few pluses of Theresa May's hegemony is that we were no longer reminded on a fortnightly basis of David Cameron's top first in PPE and the brightest his tutor had known.

    DC was very bright, no question. He could have done with a bit less insouciance, though, IMO. Perhaps this came from his 'Born To Rule' social and educational background. Not ideal for a PM. Hopefully we won't make that mistake again.
    Not as bright as Harold Wilson .
    Harold Wilson died (metaphorically, obv) in 1976. He’s been irrelevant for over 40 years.

    Edit. He also forced through the sale of commercially and militarily secret RR turbojet engines to the USSR on the basis that they were our perpetual friends. Reversed engineered to beyond. Not that globally aware.
    Not at all he presented my wife with her degree but couldn’t turn up for mine three months later
    ? Politically irrelevant. I’ve no doubt he did a good line in handing out degree certificates.
    Of course it was politically irrelevant but more importantly without him there would not have been 32 university’s and we wouldn’t have had that education.
  • HYUFDHYUFD Posts: 123,156
    justin124 said:

    HYUFD said:

    Plus ça change.

    twitter.com/JamesMelville/status/1139935613757591552

    But still won a scholarship to Oxford.....
    and 'was deeply unhappy he did not receive a first'.

    How churlish of them not to recognise him as exceptional.
    Of the 5 out of 14 PMs since WW2 who have achieved first class degrees, Eden, Macmillan, Wilson, Brown and Cameron (all Oxford graduates bar Brown who went to Edinburgh) nothing marked them out as particularly great PMs bar having that academic distinction. Indeed while Macmillan, Wilson and Cameron can be said to be above average, Eden and Brown were arguably the worst PMs since the War.


    Of our 3 greatest postwar PMs, Attlee, Churchill (based mainly on his war leadership admittedly) and Thatcher none of them achieved a first and Churchill did not even go to university.
    I don't think Macmillan graduated - despite achieving a First in Moderations.
    Macmillan's degree was interrupted by WW1 but he returned after to complete it, however sadly he and one other were the only ones of his 28 fellow students who had started at Balliol in 1912 who survived the Great War

    https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Harold_Macmillan
  • Stark_DawningStark_Dawning Posts: 9,683
    Can that reference to 'Londonistan' be construed as being anything other than overtly racist?
  • rottenboroughrottenborough Posts: 62,772
    Roger said:

    This superb article by Katy Balls is essential reading for anyone betting on the Tory leadership election:

    https://www.spectator.co.uk/2019/06/an-early-election-is-beginning-to-look-inevitable-for-the-next-tory-leader/

    She was on Radio 4 yesterday saying much the same. I got the impression she didn't like or rate Boris but that doesn't really come across in the article
    All this stuff is why I am betting on a 2019 GE.
  • justin124justin124 Posts: 11,527
    HYUFD said:

    justin124 said:

    HYUFD said:

    Plus ça change.

    twitter.com/JamesMelville/status/1139935613757591552

    But still won a scholarship to Oxford.....
    and 'was deeply unhappy he did not receive a first'.

    How churlish of them not to recognise him as exceptional.
    Of the 5 out of 14 PMs since WW2 who have achieved first class degrees, Eden, Macmillan, Wilson, Brown and Cameron (all Oxford graduates bar Brown who went to Edinburgh) nothing marked them out as particularly great PMs bar having that academic distinction. Indeed while Macmillan, Wilson and Cameron can be said to be above average, Eden and Brown were arguably the worst PMs since the War.


    Of our 3 greatest postwar PMs, Attlee, Churchill (based mainly on his war leadership admittedly) and Thatcher none of them achieved a first and Churchill did not even go to university.
    I don't think Macmillan graduated - despite achieving a First in Moderations.
    Macmillan's degree was interrupted by WW1 but he returned after to complete it, however sadly he and one other were the only ones of his 28 fellow students who had started at Balliol in 1912 who survived the Great War

    https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Harold_Macmillan
    'Of the 28 students who started at Balliol with Macmillan, only he and one other survived the war. As a result, he refused to return to Oxford to complete his degree, saying the university would never be the same; in later years he joked that he had been "sent down by the Kaiser'.
  • FrancisUrquhartFrancisUrquhart Posts: 82,133
    Chuka Umunna has been appointed Treasury and business spokesman for the Liberal Democrats just days after the former Labour and Change UK MP joined the party.
  • rottenboroughrottenborough Posts: 62,772
    kinabalu said:

    Roger said:

    I never read any. I rather doubt it. He just had a facility for very simple ideas which made successful ads. I never could work out whether thinking of simple ideas was not a particular skill or whether he just happened to have a particular facility which most people don't have. Have a break....Have a Kit Kat doesn't sound difficult.

    Go to work on an egg?

    Some say that was the best thing Fay Weldon ever wrote. Not me I hasten to add.

    I met her once on a train.
    No idea how the industry works, but I have a sneaking suspicion that may have been her worst rewarded line.
  • rottenboroughrottenborough Posts: 62,772
    On advertising:


    "Heineken Refreshes the Parts Other Beers Cannot Reach’ was written by Terry Lovelock in 1973"

    " “The Heineken thing was the nearest I ever came to suicide,” says Lovelock now "

    Heineken (1973) – Refreshes the Parts Other Beers Cannot Reach

    https://www.creativereview.co.uk/refreshes-the-parts-other-beers-cannot-reach/
  • HYUFDHYUFD Posts: 123,156
    justin124 said:

    HYUFD said:

    justin124 said:

    HYUFD said:

    Plus ça change.

    twitter.com/JamesMelville/status/1139935613757591552

    But still won a scholarship to Oxford.....
    and 'was deeply unhappy he did not receive a first'.

    How churlish of them not to recognise him as exceptional.
    Of the 5 out of 14 PMs since WW2 who have achieved first class degrees, Eden, Macmillan, Wilson, Brown and Cameron (all Oxford graduates bar Brown who went to Edinburgh) nothing marked them out as particularly great PMs bar having that academic distinction. Indeed while Macmillan, Wilson and Cameron can be said to be above average, Eden and Brown were arguably the worst PMs since the War.


    Of our 3 greatest postwar PMs, Attlee, Churchill (based mainly on his war leadership admittedly) and Thatcher none of them achieved a first and Churchill did not even go to university.
    I don't think Macmillan graduated - despite achieving a First in Moderations.
    Macmillan's degree was interrupted by WW1 but he returned after to complete it, however sadly he and one other were the only ones of his 28 fellow students who had started at Balliol in 1912 who survived the Great War

    https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Harold_Macmillan
    'Of the 28 students who started at Balliol with Macmillan, only he and one other survived the war. As a result, he refused to return to Oxford to complete his degree, saying the university would never be the same; in later years he joked that he had been "sent down by the Kaiser'.
    OK, my mistake but as you say he got a First in his studies pre War
  • HYUFDHYUFD Posts: 123,156

    Chuka Umunna has been appointed Treasury and business spokesman for the Liberal Democrats just days after the former Labour and Change UK MP joined the party.

    A good platform for a future leadership bid
  • kle4kle4 Posts: 96,163

    Can that reference to 'Londonistan' be construed as being anything other than overtly racist?
    Probably, but it'd need a great deal of explanation to get there.
    HYUFD said:
    Good, Khan could do with a laugh as he romps to victory as easily as Boris in the Tory race.
  • brendan16brendan16 Posts: 2,315

    Meanwhile in Trump's home town:

    June is only half over, and already this month seven innocent bystanders have been struck by bullets, two fatally, around the city.

    https://nypost.com/2019/06/13/run-for-cover-nyc-innocents-being-shot-at-an-alarming-rate/
    To be fair I don’t think he is too keen on the Mayor of New York either!

  • RogerRoger Posts: 19,914

    Can that reference to 'Londonistan' be construed as being anything other than overtly racist?
    No it can't. But nobody listens to Hopkins anymore so leave her to shout at the moon
  • Sean_FSean_F Posts: 37,381
    brendan16 said:

    Meanwhile in Trump's home town:

    June is only half over, and already this month seven innocent bystanders have been struck by bullets, two fatally, around the city.

    https://nypost.com/2019/06/13/run-for-cover-nyc-innocents-being-shot-at-an-alarming-rate/
    To be fair I don’t think he is too keen on the Mayor of New York either!

    Who is?
  • HYUFDHYUFD Posts: 123,156
    kle4 said:

    Can that reference to 'Londonistan' be construed as being anything other than overtly racist?
    Probably, but it'd need a great deal of explanation to get there.
    HYUFD said:
    Good, Khan could do with a laugh as he romps to victory as easily as Boris in the Tory race.
    I think Sugar could beat Khan certainly he would romp home in the London suburbs
  • Sunil_PrasannanSunil_Prasannan Posts: 51,884

    Can that reference to 'Londonistan' be construed as being anything other than overtly racist?
    In the 2011 UK Census, 59.79% of the population classed their ethnic group as White, including White British (44.89%), White Irish (2.15%) or "Other White" (12.65%, mostly Greek-Cypriot, Italian, Polish, Spanish, Colombians and Portuguese). 18.49% classed themselves as British Asian, including Indian, Pakistani, Bangladeshi and "Other Asian" (mostly Sri Lankan, Arab and other Southern Asian ethnicities). 13.32% classed themselves as Black British (7% as Black African, 4.22% as Black Caribbean, 2.08% as "Other Black"). 4.96% were of mixed race; and 3.44% as other (mostly Filipino, Japanese, Korean, Vietnamese and other "British Orientals").

    https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Greater_London
  • rottenboroughrottenborough Posts: 62,772
    Rory chased out of Hampstead Heath by a parky who says they can't film:

    https://twitter.com/RoryStewartUK/status/1139961697907572736
  • DecrepitJohnLDecrepitJohnL Posts: 13,300
    justin124 said:

    HYUFD said:

    justin124 said:

    HYUFD said:

    Plus ça change.

    twitter.com/JamesMelville/status/1139935613757591552

    But still won a scholarship to Oxford.....
    and 'was deeply unhappy he did not receive a first'.

    How churlish of them not to recognise him as exceptional.
    Of the 5 out of 14 PMs since WW2 who have achieved first class degrees, Eden, Macmillan, Wilson, Brown and Cameron (all Oxford graduates bar Brown who went to Edinburgh) nothing marked them out as particularly great PMs bar having that academic distinction. Indeed while Macmillan, Wilson and Cameron can be said to be above average, Eden and Brown were arguably the worst PMs since the War.


    Of our 3 greatest postwar PMs, Attlee, Churchill (based mainly on his war leadership admittedly) and Thatcher none of them achieved a first and Churchill did not even go to university.
    I don't think Macmillan graduated - despite achieving a First in Moderations.
    Macmillan's degree was interrupted by WW1 but he returned after to complete it, however sadly he and one other were the only ones of his 28 fellow students who had started at Balliol in 1912 who survived the Great War

    https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Harold_Macmillan
    'Of the 28 students who started at Balliol with Macmillan, only he and one other survived the war. As a result, he refused to return to Oxford to complete his degree, saying the university would never be the same; in later years he joked that he had been "sent down by the Kaiser'.
    Was it Alan Clark who described war as the business of the upper and working classes? In Blackadder terms, all those Lieutenant Georges and Private Baldricks in the front line.
  • rottenboroughrottenborough Posts: 62,772
    HYUFD said:

    kle4 said:

    Can that reference to 'Londonistan' be construed as being anything other than overtly racist?
    Probably, but it'd need a great deal of explanation to get there.
    HYUFD said:
    Good, Khan could do with a laugh as he romps to victory as easily as Boris in the Tory race.
    I think Sugar could beat Khan certainly he would romp home in the London suburbs
    Sugar is only 4 on BF for next mayor. I'm out...
  • DecrepitJohnLDecrepitJohnL Posts: 13,300
    Sean_F said:

    brendan16 said:

    Meanwhile in Trump's home town:

    June is only half over, and already this month seven innocent bystanders have been struck by bullets, two fatally, around the city.

    https://nypost.com/2019/06/13/run-for-cover-nyc-innocents-being-shot-at-an-alarming-rate/
    To be fair I don’t think he is too keen on the Mayor of New York either!

    Who is?
    500/1 on Betfair for next president.
  • rottenboroughrottenborough Posts: 62,772

    Chuka Umunna has been appointed Treasury and business spokesman for the Liberal Democrats just days after the former Labour and Change UK MP joined the party.

    To be fair they are rather short staffed compared to the Charles Kennedy days.
  • TheuniondivvieTheuniondivvie Posts: 42,005
    Roger said:

    Can that reference to 'Londonistan' be construed as being anything other than overtly racist?
    No it can't. But nobody listens to Hopkins anymore so leave her to shout at the moon
    Obviously the Donald still does, but I think he described her as a respected UK columnist, so..
  • HYUFDHYUFD Posts: 123,156
    Brilliant Boris story here from Jeremy Vine

    https://twitter.com/theJeremyVine/status/1139390187446779904?s=20
  • williamglennwilliamglenn Posts: 51,720
    If there’s a coronation, the election could be called next week. :anguished:
  • GIN1138GIN1138 Posts: 22,293

    If there’s a coronation, the election could be called next week. :anguished:

    Boris!!!!! :D
This discussion has been closed.