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politicalbetting.com » Blog Archive » Gove’s white lines are a red line for a majority of the electo

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  • malcolmgmalcolmg Posts: 43,362
    edited June 2019

    The old ones are the best(worst). Stick to your drug confessions and zany 'cancel VAT' schemes, Govey.

    https://twitter.com/MrJohnNicolson/status/1137657847481810946

    Between that and Javid lying through his teeth on Sophy, the clown said Ruth was an election winner despite the fact the Tories have been also rans forever.
    These people are not right in the tattie.
    PS: Nicholson is a right tool, been wittering on about SNP failing broadband coverage when it is a retained power and responsibility of Westminster, they are pig thick as well as out and out liars.
  • rottenboroughrottenborough Posts: 62,772

    The current Tory leadership race is the best possible advertisement against drug use ever devised. Look what taking cocaine, cannabis, opium and the rest has done to the contenders' brains and judgement.

    Actually, I would say it has been a stunning advert for opium. There is only one candidate who talks as if governing has some responsibility to the truth and rationality.
  • williamglennwilliamglenn Posts: 51,720
    malcolmg said:

    These people are not right in the tattie.

    :lol:
  • TGOHFTGOHF Posts: 21,633
    Well if I was a Con member I’d vote for Gove after that Marr performance.
  • rottenboroughrottenborough Posts: 62,772

    The old ones are the best(worst). Stick to your drug confessions and zany 'cancel VAT' schemes, Govey.

    https://twitter.com/MrJohnNicolson/status/1137657847481810946

    Sturgeons status vs 2019 Westminster politicians far better than Salmonds was in 2016 vs Cameron. Indeed plenty of floating voters would accept Corbyn plus Sturgeon but be petrified of a Corbyn outright majority.
    Damn right.

    Gove getting desperate now.
  • MexicanpeteMexicanpete Posts: 28,391

    JackW said:

    JackW said:

    JackW said:

    Hunt gives a calm, measured and assured performance on Sky News. He is the complete antithesis of Boris.

    He was clam and assured, but still talking unicorns. And, as Ridge pointed out, he has had more Brexit positions than there are days in the year.

    A slight over-egging of the pudding there .... :smile: .. That said if the evidence changes I'm not concerned that a politician changes their view.

    Like the other contenders in the race, Hunt is guided solely by personal ambition. His consistency in changing position is certainly understandable given that.

    Senior politicians show ambition shocker ....

    In other news Tottenham Hotspur fail to win trophy shocker .... :wink:

    Anyone who has spent time watching the Conservative party knows that it is home to more than its fair share of self-centred chancers who put themselves before the country. Just as anyone who supports Spurs knows that defeat is built into the equation.

    Yawn.

    Both you and Jonathan are never more boring than when you get onto your partisan stick.
    It is gratifying that PB Tories are never partisan and only ever post through the prism of impartiality.
  • NormNorm Posts: 1,251
    edited June 2019
    TGOHF said:

    Well if I was a Con member I’d vote for Gove after that Marr performance.

    I tend to the opposite view - Gove is sunk. His best pitch now is for CoE.
  • malcolmgmalcolmg Posts: 43,362

    Gove getting the tone wrong, not sure he can seriously continue.

    Would never expect the pompous little twerp to understand he needs to eat humble pie and not keep assuming he is better than everybody else.
  • nico67nico67 Posts: 4,502
    I think the public are generally very forgiving of past mistakes .

    But won’t have much time for hypocrisy . The past cocaine use he could have overcome but I think he’s done for now .

    I expect Hunt now will end up in the top two and will be soundly beaten in the membership vote but will be ready to pick up the pieces when Bozo implodes after his fantasy EU plan hits reality .
  • SouthamObserverSouthamObserver Posts: 39,653

    JackW said:

    JackW said:

    JackW said:

    Hunt gives a calm, measured and assured performance on Sky News. He is the complete antithesis of Boris.

    He was clam and assured, but still talking unicorns. And, as Ridge pointed out, he has had more Brexit positions than there are days in the year.

    A slight over-egging of the pudding there .... :smile: .. That said if the evidence changes I'm not concerned that a politician changes their view.

    Like the other contenders in the race, Hunt is guided solely by personal ambition. His consistency in changing position is certainly understandable given that.

    Senior politicians show ambition shocker ....

    In other news Tottenham Hotspur fail to win trophy shocker .... :wink:

    Anyone who has spent time watching the Conservative party knows that it is home to more than its fair share of self-centred chancers who put themselves before the country. Just as anyone who supports Spurs knows that defeat is built into the equation.

    Yawn.

    Both you and Jonathan are never more boring than when you get onto your partisan stick.

    Ha, ha!!

  • malcolmgmalcolmg Posts: 43,362
    TGOHF said:

    Well if I was a Con member I’d vote for Gove after that Marr performance.

    Harry, next you will be admitting the Pope is a Catholic and saying Attila the Hun did not start the Tory Party
  • malcolmgmalcolmg Posts: 43,362
    nico67 said:

    I think the public are generally very forgiving of past mistakes .

    But won’t have much time for hypocrisy . The past cocaine use he could have overcome but I think he’s done for now .

    I expect Hunt now will end up in the top two and will be soundly beaten in the membership vote but will be ready to pick up the pieces when Bozo implodes after his fantasy EU plan hits reality .

    Hoist by his own petard, it could not have happened to a nicer fellow.
  • MarqueeMarkMarqueeMark Posts: 52,617

    Gove getting the tone wrong, not sure he can seriously continue.

    If any of his backers change to someone else, that will be the sign.....
  • SouthamObserverSouthamObserver Posts: 39,653
    nico67 said:

    I think the public are generally very forgiving of past mistakes .

    But won’t have much time for hypocrisy . The past cocaine use he could have overcome but I think he’s done for now .

    I expect Hunt now will end up in the top two and will be soundly beaten in the membership vote but will be ready to pick up the pieces when Bozo implodes after his fantasy EU plan hits reality .

    The public and the Tory party electorate are two very different things, though. Gove's current problems with the first will be exacerbated by his total hypocrisy, but it is the lack of No Deal zeal that is likely to be fatal with the latter.

  • AndyJSAndyJS Posts: 29,395
    "Gove brought in law to ban teachers for life for cocaine use"

    https://order-order.com/2019/06/09/gove-brought-law-ban-teachers-life-cocaine-use/
  • kinabalukinabalu Posts: 42,237

    Why do labour keep rolling out Barry Gardiner. He is clueless

    Can't believe you said that. Good brain, strong on policy, relatively honest for a politician, and a heart of gold.

    Pity he has no chance of making the final two.
  • malcolmgmalcolmg Posts: 43,362
    Have to say I never expected to be enjoying the Tory Leadership (sic ) race , crooks and comic singers abound, never short of a good laugh at the state of the contenders and their pathetic attempts at bribing the nasties members with promises of giving them tax cuts, lower IHT and any other gift they can throw in. Like watching a pack of hyenas share a carcass.
  • MaxPBMaxPB Posts: 38,868
    The moral high ground sought by some Labour members on here is great to see, as if it's any different for senior Labour MPs. The idea that any of our MPs haven't done a line or smoked a bit of weed at least once in their life defies the reality of Westminster.

    Most MPs are white and middle class, to not have done a line at least once would be a bigger shock, IMO.
  • rottenboroughrottenborough Posts: 62,772
    AndyJS said:

    "Gove brought in law to ban teachers for life for cocaine use"

    https://order-order.com/2019/06/09/gove-brought-law-ban-teachers-life-cocaine-use/

    He's f**ked now isn't he?
  • geoffwgeoffw Posts: 8,722

    Very meaty analysis by Ashcroft - we've had some of the charts shown here but it's worth reading the whole thing. Not entirely welcome to most of us, but intriguing.

    https://us4.campaign-archive.com/?e=99cd3aa6df&u=7c92abe0d0d9432cf9c5b98c9&id=70101d1a72) .

    Yes, quality analysis. No surprise, but clear patterns extracted from the data.
  • AndyJSAndyJS Posts: 29,395
    edited June 2019

    Gove getting the tone wrong, not sure he can seriously continue.

    If any of his backers change to someone else, that will be the sign.....
    These are Gove's current backers:

    Peter Aldous, Richard Bacon, Kemi Badenoch, Jack Brereton, Alberto Costa,
    David Duguid, George Eustice, Michael Fabricant, George Freeman,
    Nick Gibb, Luke Graham, Bill Grant, Trudy Harrison,
    John Hayes, Kevin Hollinrake, Stephen Kerr, Edward Leigh, Oliver Letwin,
    Rachel Maclean, Mark Menzies, Anne Milton, Nicky Morgan,
    Bob Neill, Guy Opperman, Neil Parish, Claire Perry, Bob Seely,
    John Stevenson, Mel Stride, Tom Tugendhat, Ed Vaizey, Giles Watling.
  • nico67nico67 Posts: 4,502
    AndyJS said:

    "Gove brought in law to ban teachers for life for cocaine use"

    https://order-order.com/2019/06/09/gove-brought-law-ban-teachers-life-cocaine-use/

    Oh dear . That really is the final nail in the coffin .
  • TGOHFTGOHF Posts: 21,633
    Will Boris turn up for the tv debate ?

    How can anyone support him if he doesn’t ?

    I’m not surprised his goons are trying to get Gove out before the debates...
  • SandpitSandpit Posts: 54,627
    edited June 2019
    Floater said:
    How does someone who’s nothing to do with the campaign end up at the count?

    How does a party let someone with a conviction for election fraud anywhere near the count?

    Sounds like someone is collecting evidence here, reports of voters turning up to be told they’d voted by post already appear very, err, Tower Hamlets-esque?
  • malcolmgmalcolmg Posts: 43,362

    AndyJS said:

    "Gove brought in law to ban teachers for life for cocaine use"

    https://order-order.com/2019/06/09/gove-brought-law-ban-teachers-life-cocaine-use/

    He's f**ked now isn't he?
    Wonder when someone will report him to the rozzers, or if they will be as keen to turn up on his doorstep as quickly as they do for someone accused of offending someone with a text message.
  • MaxPBMaxPB Posts: 38,868
    TGOHF said:

    Will Boris turn up for the tv debate ?

    How can anyone support him if he doesn’t ?

    I’m not surprised his goons are trying to get Gove out before the debates...

    Boris will turn up to the debates. It's the one arena he does well in, it's policy detail and actually doing the work where he's shit.
  • NickPalmerNickPalmer Posts: 21,534

    The old ones are the best(worst). Stick to your drug confessions and zany 'cancel VAT' schemes, Govey.

    https://twitter.com/MrJohnNicolson/status/1137657847481810946

    Sturgeons status vs 2019 Westminster politicians far better than Salmonds was in 2016 vs Cameron. Indeed plenty of floating voters would accept Corbyn plus Sturgeon but be petrified of a Corbyn outright majority.
    There's something in that, I expect (and the same goes for "dependent on LibDems"). The old "coalition of chaos" line isn't going to work either any more, since the Conservatives have bene providing a more chaotic coalition than we could possibly imagine.
  • FF43FF43 Posts: 17,208

    kle4 said:

    JackW said:

    JackW said:

    Hunt gives a calm, measured and assured performance on Sky News. He is the complete antithesis of Boris.

    He was clam and assured, but still talking unicorns. And, as Ridge pointed out, he has had more Brexit positions than there are days in the year.

    A slight over-egging of the pudding there .... :smile: .. That said if the evidence changes I'm not concerned that a politician changes their view.

    Like the other contenders in the race, Hunt is guided solely by personal ambition. His consistency in changing position is certainly understandable given that.

    And yet he criticised no deal, which harms his ambition in the second portion of the contest, should he get that far.

    Like Rory Stewart, Hunt is smart enough to know that there is going to be another Conservative party leadership election pretty soon after this one. Having been right about the absolute disaster a No Deal will be is going to be a pre-requisite for having a chance in that fight.

    There was polling somewhere showing Stewart equal tops with Boris for next PM, with the public at large. Not bad for a politician no-one had heard of a few weeks ago
  • rottenboroughrottenborough Posts: 62,772

    The old ones are the best(worst). Stick to your drug confessions and zany 'cancel VAT' schemes, Govey.

    https://twitter.com/MrJohnNicolson/status/1137657847481810946

    Sturgeons status vs 2019 Westminster politicians far better than Salmonds was in 2016 vs Cameron. Indeed plenty of floating voters would accept Corbyn plus Sturgeon but be petrified of a Corbyn outright majority.
    There's something in that, I expect (and the same goes for "dependent on LibDems"). The old "coalition of chaos" line isn't going to work either any more, since the Conservatives have bene providing a more chaotic coalition than we could possibly imagine.
    Indeed. And they have barely begun. Wait until May has to remain PM because they have elected a leader who the Queen has been informed is unlikely to command a majority.
  • kinabalukinabalu Posts: 42,237
    TGOHF said:

    Well if I was a Con member I’d vote for Gove after that Marr performance.

    I thought you were a member.

    Just goes to show never assume. It makes an ass out of u and me. Well, just me in this case.

    Why aren't you though? Being a member is a chance to play an active part in the development of a centre right offering that can meet the challenges of the early 21st century. It's sorely needed. Labour and the Left are winning the battle of ideas hands down atm.
  • nico67nico67 Posts: 4,502
    MaxPB said:

    The moral high ground sought by some Labour members on here is great to see, as if it's any different for senior Labour MPs. The idea that any of our MPs haven't done a line or smoked a bit of weed at least once in their life defies the reality of Westminster.

    Most MPs are white and middle class, to not have done a line at least once would be a bigger shock, IMO.

    I’m a Labour voter and think people shouldn’t moralize , we’ve all done things we might have regretted.

    My issue against Gove isn’t his cocaine use , its the vomit inducing hypocrisy since.

    Game over for Gove , the interest now is who he decides to take down with him , Lady Macbeth won’t be happy and will want to exact some revenge .
  • malcolmgmalcolmg Posts: 43,362

    The old ones are the best(worst). Stick to your drug confessions and zany 'cancel VAT' schemes, Govey.

    https://twitter.com/MrJohnNicolson/status/1137657847481810946

    Sturgeons status vs 2019 Westminster politicians far better than Salmonds was in 2016 vs Cameron. Indeed plenty of floating voters would accept Corbyn plus Sturgeon but be petrified of a Corbyn outright majority.
    There's something in that, I expect (and the same goes for "dependent on LibDems"). The old "coalition of chaos" line isn't going to work either any more, since the Conservatives have bene providing a more chaotic coalition than we could possibly imagine.
    Yes bribing the DUP to help prop them up has blown any doubts that having a sane SNP as a reasonable partner could be bad. Good enough for both of them , hard to tell who is holding a long spoon and who is the devil between the Tories and the DUP, but Tories edge it.
  • malcolmgmalcolmg Posts: 43,362
    kinabalu said:

    TGOHF said:

    Well if I was a Con member I’d vote for Gove after that Marr performance.

    I thought you were a member.

    Just goes to show never assume. It makes an ass out of u and me. Well, just me in this case.

    Why aren't you though? Being a member is a chance to play an active part in the development of a centre right offering that can meet the challenges of the early 21st century. It's sorely needed. Labour and the Left are winning the battle of ideas hands down atm.
    Depends what day and the "Topic de Jour " is.
  • DecrepitJohnLDecrepitJohnL Posts: 13,300
    Sandpit said:

    Floater said:
    How does someone who’s nothing to do with the campaign end up at the count?

    How does a party let someone with a conviction for election fraud anywhere near the count?

    Sounds like someone is collecting evidence here, reports of voters turning up to be told they’d voted by post already appear very, err, Tower Hamlets-esque?
    Good points. Whoever let him anywhere near the campaign, assuming they did and he is not just a chancer with a rosette, needs a stern talking-to. On the other hand, the allegations do seem a bit third or fourth hand, rather late in the day, and from a Conservative rather than Brexit Party source.
  • Ishmael_ZIshmael_Z Posts: 8,981
    Scott_P said:
    On a more practical note we can hardly have a PM whose eligibility for a US visa waiver is in doubt. He also can't be given a consolation prize of Foreign Office for the same reason, or Home Office or justice because hypocrisy.
  • Luckyguy1983Luckyguy1983 Posts: 28,490
    nico67 said:

    AndyJS said:

    "Gove brought in law to ban teachers for life for cocaine use"

    https://order-order.com/2019/06/09/gove-brought-law-ban-teachers-life-cocaine-use/

    Oh dear . That really is the final nail in the coffin .
    Stick a fork in him, he's done.
  • GardenwalkerGardenwalker Posts: 21,298
    Gove was Johnson’s only credible rival.
    And he’s sunk...
  • SouthamObserverSouthamObserver Posts: 39,653
    I, for one, am shocked that leading Brexiteer Michael Gove has been exposed as a lying hypocrite.
    https://twitter.com/DPJHodges/status/1137666873309503488
  • malcolmgmalcolmg Posts: 43,362

    nico67 said:

    AndyJS said:

    "Gove brought in law to ban teachers for life for cocaine use"

    https://order-order.com/2019/06/09/gove-brought-law-ban-teachers-life-cocaine-use/

    Oh dear . That really is the final nail in the coffin .
    Stick a fork in him, he's done.
    LOL :smiley: Crackling
  • rottenboroughrottenborough Posts: 62,772

    I, for one, am shocked that leading Brexiteer Michael Gove has been exposed as a lying hypocrite.
    https://twitter.com/DPJHodges/status/1137666873309503488

    Gove now a lay?
  • nico67nico67 Posts: 4,502

    Gove was Johnson’s only credible rival.
    And he’s sunk...

    No one would beat Bozo . So effectively the leadership race is now a positioning of those who want a top job in the cabinet and who also are looking at longer term when Bozo has the shortest tenure of any Tory PM.
  • SouthamObserverSouthamObserver Posts: 39,653
    Ishmael_Z said:

    Scott_P said:
    On a more practical note we can hardly have a PM whose eligibility for a US visa waiver is in doubt. He also can't be given a consolation prize of Foreign Office for the same reason, or Home Office or justice because hypocrisy.

    Hypocrisy - and lies.

  • edmundintokyoedmundintokyo Posts: 17,708
    Ishmael_Z said:

    Scott_P said:
    On a more practical note we can hardly have a PM whose eligibility for a US visa waiver is in doubt. He also can't be given a consolation prize of Foreign Office for the same reason, or Home Office or justice because hypocrisy.
    On a practical note, if he's PM somebody can get him a visa
  • Scott_PScott_P Posts: 51,453
    The important question, now that Gove has blown up his own campaign, is whether he can still successfully derail BoZo.

    Or not.
  • rottenboroughrottenborough Posts: 62,772
    Scott_P said:

    The important question, now that Gove has blown up his own campaign, is whether he can still successfully derail BoZo.

    Or not.

    If he pulls down Boris then we get Raab, or possibly Leadsom. Shoot me now.
  • geoffwgeoffw Posts: 8,722

    I, for one, am shocked that leading Brexiteer Michael Gove has been exposed as a lying hypocrite.
    https://twitter.com/DPJHodges/status/1137666873309503488

    Gove now a lay?
    Ha, one of Brexit's high priests now a layman.
  • Morris_DancerMorris_Dancer Posts: 61,806
    Is it worth backing Rory?
  • noneoftheabovenoneoftheabove Posts: 22,847

    The old ones are the best(worst). Stick to your drug confessions and zany 'cancel VAT' schemes, Govey.

    https://twitter.com/MrJohnNicolson/status/1137657847481810946

    Sturgeons status vs 2019 Westminster politicians far better than Salmonds was in 2016 vs Cameron. Indeed plenty of floating voters would accept Corbyn plus Sturgeon but be petrified of a Corbyn outright majority.
    There's something in that, I expect (and the same goes for "dependent on LibDems"). The old "coalition of chaos" line isn't going to work either any more, since the Conservatives have bene providing a more chaotic coalition than we could possibly imagine.
    Note the word petrified. When floating voters are petrified of your leader you have the wrong man. He is fortunate that the alternatives are almost equally terrible.

    A Labour landslide is readily available if they ditch Corbyn. They could probably actually keep most of the Corbyn policies but change the tone, ditch the nastiness and anti-semitism and take away the concern that Corbyn is just the start of a marxist state.
  • SandpitSandpit Posts: 54,627

    Sandpit said:

    Floater said:
    How does someone who’s nothing to do with the campaign end up at the count?

    How does a party let someone with a conviction for election fraud anywhere near the count?

    Sounds like someone is collecting evidence here, reports of voters turning up to be told they’d voted by post already appear very, err, Tower Hamlets-esque?
    Good points. Whoever let him anywhere near the campaign, assuming they did and he is not just a chancer with a rosette, needs a stern talking-to. On the other hand, the allegations do seem a bit third or fourth hand, rather late in the day, and from a Conservative rather than Brexit Party source.
    Remember that the BP’s idea of a ground game was manning a stall on the High St on Election Day, only Lab and Con really have boots on the ground in the town.

    Some parts do seem a little vague, and the story is in the Mail so another pinch of salt there, but if there’s any evidence of ballot boxes getting stuffed that’s a worrying development. Big IF there, of course - although the presence of the convicted ballot box stuffer is probably a good starting point, even if circumstantial evidence at this stage.
  • malcolmgmalcolmg Posts: 43,362

    I, for one, am shocked that leading Brexiteer Michael Gove has been exposed as a lying hypocrite.
    https://twitter.com/DPJHodges/status/1137666873309503488

    Gove now a lay?
    Only if you are really a desperate person
  • Luckyguy1983Luckyguy1983 Posts: 28,490
    Scott_P said:

    The important question, now that Gove has blown up his own campaign, is whether he can still successfully derail BoZo.

    Or not.

    I don't think Gove could be seen knifing Boris or being complicit in such a knifing now. I think it's more likely he is exaggeratedly nice.
  • williamglennwilliamglenn Posts: 51,720
    Scott_P said:

    The important question, now that Gove has blown up his own campaign, is whether he can still successfully derail BoZo.

    Or not.

    Gove might have destroyed his credibility to the extent that no matter what he does, people will dismiss it. He'd already become a Remainer in the eyes of the One True Brexit contingent.
  • malcolmgmalcolmg Posts: 43,362

    Is it worth backing Rory?

    MD, you have to even ask that question and you an educated man, as well throwing your money down the drain
  • SandpitSandpit Posts: 54,627

    Ishmael_Z said:

    Scott_P said:
    On a more practical note we can hardly have a PM whose eligibility for a US visa waiver is in doubt. He also can't be given a consolation prize of Foreign Office for the same reason, or Home Office or justice because hypocrisy.
    On a practical note, if he's PM somebody can get him a visa
    LOL.

    I’d always assumed that a Privy Councillor would be able to get a diplomatic passport if one were requested?
  • ArtistArtist Posts: 1,893
    malcolmg said:

    The old ones are the best(worst). Stick to your drug confessions and zany 'cancel VAT' schemes, Govey.

    https://twitter.com/MrJohnNicolson/status/1137657847481810946

    Sturgeons status vs 2019 Westminster politicians far better than Salmonds was in 2016 vs Cameron. Indeed plenty of floating voters would accept Corbyn plus Sturgeon but be petrified of a Corbyn outright majority.
    There's something in that, I expect (and the same goes for "dependent on LibDems"). The old "coalition of chaos" line isn't going to work either any more, since the Conservatives have bene providing a more chaotic coalition than we could possibly imagine.
    Yes bribing the DUP to help prop them up has blown any doubts that having a sane SNP as a reasonable partner could be bad. Good enough for both of them , hard to tell who is holding a long spoon and who is the devil between the Tories and the DUP, but Tories edge it.
    I don't think many Brexit Party voters who want Britain to 'take back control' would be too keen on Scottish Nationalists holding the balance of power at Westminster.
  • nico67nico67 Posts: 4,502
    The interest for me in this Tory leadership is around what numbers Stewart and Gymah get in the first round .
  • malcolmgmalcolmg Posts: 43,362

    Scott_P said:

    The important question, now that Gove has blown up his own campaign, is whether he can still successfully derail BoZo.

    Or not.

    I don't think Gove could be seen knifing Boris or being complicit in such a knifing now. I think it's more likely he is exaggeratedly nice.
    He would do it in the back this time using a proxy, sure his wife will be consulting her cauldron as we speak.
  • JosiasJessopJosiasJessop Posts: 42,709
    Sandpit said:

    Sandpit said:

    Floater said:
    How does someone who’s nothing to do with the campaign end up at the count?

    How does a party let someone with a conviction for election fraud anywhere near the count?

    Sounds like someone is collecting evidence here, reports of voters turning up to be told they’d voted by post already appear very, err, Tower Hamlets-esque?
    Good points. Whoever let him anywhere near the campaign, assuming they did and he is not just a chancer with a rosette, needs a stern talking-to. On the other hand, the allegations do seem a bit third or fourth hand, rather late in the day, and from a Conservative rather than Brexit Party source.
    Remember that the BP’s idea of a ground game was manning a stall on the High St on Election Day, only Lab and Con really have boots on the ground in the town.

    (Snip)
    I think that's a little unfair on the BP (and I'm hardly a fan of theirs). A few weeks before the election, only UKIP and BP had any visible presence in the centre of Peterborough on a busy Saturday afternoon - and it was a large and happy presence.

    It's a bit much to expect them to match the Cons and Lab in the GOTV stakes when they don't have much of an organisational track record in the constituency or the data.
  • Morris_DancerMorris_Dancer Posts: 61,806
    edited June 2019
    Mr. G, British politics is... turbulent currently. Unexpected things can, and have, and probably will happen.

    Edited extra bit: anyway, I must be off. Probably won't be back ahead of the race, so let's hope Verstappen has a splendid day.
  • williamglennwilliamglenn Posts: 51,720
    Artist said:

    I don't think many Brexit Party voters who want Britain to 'take back control' would be too keen on Scottish Nationalists holding the balance of power at Westminster.

    There's a deal to be done between Farage and Sturgeon if it came to that. Farage always favoured much more Scottish devolution, and I think he'd be fine with the model originally proposed by the SNP in the Scotland's Place in Europe paper.
  • malcolmgmalcolmg Posts: 43,362
    edited June 2019
    Artist said:

    malcolmg said:

    The old ones are the best(worst). Stick to your drug confessions and zany 'cancel VAT' schemes, Govey.

    https://twitter.com/MrJohnNicolson/status/1137657847481810946

    Sturgeons status vs 2019 Westminster politicians far better than Salmonds was in 2016 vs Cameron. Indeed plenty of floating voters would accept Corbyn plus Sturgeon but be petrified of a Corbyn outright majority.
    There's something in that, I expect (and the same goes for "dependent on LibDems"). The old "coalition of chaos" line isn't going to work either any more, since the Conservatives have bene providing a more chaotic coalition than we could possibly imagine.
    Yes bribing the DUP to help prop them up has blown any doubts that having a sane SNP as a reasonable partner could be bad. Good enough for both of them , hard to tell who is holding a long spoon and who is the devil between the Tories and the DUP, but Tories edge it.
    I don't think many Brexit Party voters who want Britain to 'take back control' would be too keen on Scottish Nationalists holding the balance of power at Westminster.
    Given they are likely to be like UKIP and have maximum 1 seat , I doubt that will matter. The same nutters were ineffective in UKIP and only Farage will benefit from his latest ponzi scheme.
    PS: BP is just the same bunch of fruitloops
  • SandpitSandpit Posts: 54,627

    I, for one, am shocked that leading Brexiteer Michael Gove has been exposed as a lying hypocrite.
    https://twitter.com/DPJHodges/status/1137666873309503488

    Gove now a lay?
    Not at odds of 1/25.

    Probably a hold, or a small back at 21/1 (current Betfair market prices).

    Prices of everyone actually running are going to come in tomorrow night, when we get the entry list - so unless he withdraws today...
  • edmundintokyoedmundintokyo Posts: 17,708
    edited June 2019
    I think this is maybe getting overblown, hypocricy is the most fundamental principle of conservatism, I know they've been entryized but I don't see why they should completely abandon their values.
  • OldKingColeOldKingCole Posts: 33,478
    Scott_P said:

    The important question, now that Gove has blown up his own campaign, is whether he can still successfully derail BoZo.

    Or not.

    Again!
  • SandpitSandpit Posts: 54,627

    Sandpit said:

    Sandpit said:

    Floater said:
    How does someone who’s nothing to do with the campaign end up at the count?

    How does a party let someone with a conviction for election fraud anywhere near the count?

    Sounds like someone is collecting evidence here, reports of voters turning up to be told they’d voted by post already appear very, err, Tower Hamlets-esque?
    Good points. Whoever let him anywhere near the campaign, assuming they did and he is not just a chancer with a rosette, needs a stern talking-to. On the other hand, the allegations do seem a bit third or fourth hand, rather late in the day, and from a Conservative rather than Brexit Party source.
    Remember that the BP’s idea of a ground game was manning a stall on the High St on Election Day, only Lab and Con really have boots on the ground in the town.

    (Snip)
    I think that's a little unfair on the BP (and I'm hardly a fan of theirs). A few weeks before the election, only UKIP and BP had any visible presence in the centre of Peterborough on a busy Saturday afternoon - and it was a large and happy presence.

    It's a bit much to expect them to match the Cons and Lab in the GOTV stakes when they don't have much of an organisational track record in the constituency or the data.
    It wasn’t really intended as a criticism of BP, they’re a new party learning to do things and didn’t have a local database. Rather it was a reply to an observation that the reports of unusual activity came from Con sources, as detailed in the MoS article.
  • Luckyguy1983Luckyguy1983 Posts: 28,490
    Artist said:

    malcolmg said:

    The old ones are the best(worst). Stick to your drug confessions and zany 'cancel VAT' schemes, Govey.

    https://twitter.com/MrJohnNicolson/status/1137657847481810946

    Sturgeons status vs 2019 Westminster politicians far better than Salmonds was in 2016 vs Cameron. Indeed plenty of floating voters would accept Corbyn plus Sturgeon but be petrified of a Corbyn outright majority.
    There's something in that, I expect (and the same goes for "dependent on LibDems"). The old "coalition of chaos" line isn't going to work either any more, since the Conservatives have bene providing a more chaotic coalition than we could possibly imagine.
    Yes bribing the DUP to help prop them up has blown any doubts that having a sane SNP as a reasonable partner could be bad. Good enough for both of them , hard to tell who is holding a long spoon and who is the devil between the Tories and the DUP, but Tories edge it.
    I don't think many Brexit Party voters who want Britain to 'take back control' would be too keen on Scottish Nationalists holding the balance of power at Westminster.
    I'd be as comfortable with them as anyone else.
  • PulpstarPulpstar Posts: 78,217
    Market (Bar the Leadsom whale) thinks it'll be Boris vs Hunt
  • OldKingColeOldKingCole Posts: 33,478
    malcolmg said:

    Scott_P said:

    The important question, now that Gove has blown up his own campaign, is whether he can still successfully derail BoZo.

    Or not.

    I don't think Gove could be seen knifing Boris or being complicit in such a knifing now. I think it's more likely he is exaggeratedly nice.
    He would do it in the back this time using a proxy, sure his wife will be consulting her cauldron as we speak.
    Who are the other two, then Malc?
  • BarnesianBarnesian Posts: 8,605
    geoffw said:

    Very meaty analysis by Ashcroft - we've had some of the charts shown here but it's worth reading the whole thing. Not entirely welcome to most of us, but intriguing.

    https://us4.campaign-archive.com/?e=99cd3aa6df&u=7c92abe0d0d9432cf9c5b98c9&id=70101d1a72) .

    Yes, quality analysis. No surprise, but clear patterns extracted from the data.
    Yes very good. Food for thought for all aspiring political leaders.
  • Luckyguy1983Luckyguy1983 Posts: 28,490
    malcolmg said:

    Scott_P said:

    The important question, now that Gove has blown up his own campaign, is whether he can still successfully derail BoZo.

    Or not.

    I don't think Gove could be seen knifing Boris or being complicit in such a knifing now. I think it's more likely he is exaggeratedly nice.
    He would do it in the back this time using a proxy, sure his wife will be consulting her cauldron as we speak.
    Lol. He would have to cover his tracks remarkably well. It couldn't be any of his supporters.
  • MaxPBMaxPB Posts: 38,868
    nico67 said:

    MaxPB said:

    The moral high ground sought by some Labour members on here is great to see, as if it's any different for senior Labour MPs. The idea that any of our MPs haven't done a line or smoked a bit of weed at least once in their life defies the reality of Westminster.

    Most MPs are white and middle class, to not have done a line at least once would be a bigger shock, IMO.

    I’m a Labour voter and think people shouldn’t moralize , we’ve all done things we might have regretted.

    My issue against Gove isn’t his cocaine use , its the vomit inducing hypocrisy since.

    Game over for Gove , the interest now is who he decides to take down with him , Lady Macbeth won’t be happy and will want to exact some revenge .
    Oh I agree with that, it's the hypocrisy that will get him but comments on here about all of the Tory leadership being on drugs etc... is a bit much to take from members of the Labour party who's own leadership probably did a lot of regrettable stuff in their younger days.
  • SandpitSandpit Posts: 54,627
    edited June 2019
    malcolmg said:

    Scott_P said:

    The important question, now that Gove has blown up his own campaign, is whether he can still successfully derail BoZo.

    Or not.

    I don't think Gove could be seen knifing Boris or being complicit in such a knifing now. I think it's more likely he is exaggeratedly nice.
    He would do it in the back this time using a proxy, sure his wife will be consulting her cauldron as we speak.
    It’s a big cauldron!

    Also watch for Harry Cole, ironically of the MoS and behind today’s hit on Gove. Boris stole his girlfriend.
  • malcolmgmalcolmg Posts: 43,362

    malcolmg said:

    Scott_P said:

    The important question, now that Gove has blown up his own campaign, is whether he can still successfully derail BoZo.

    Or not.

    I don't think Gove could be seen knifing Boris or being complicit in such a knifing now. I think it's more likely he is exaggeratedly nice.
    He would do it in the back this time using a proxy, sure his wife will be consulting her cauldron as we speak.
    Who are the other two, then Malc?
    OKC, for sure they will have some like minded privileged hypocrites to assist them
  • malcolmgmalcolmg Posts: 43,362
    Sandpit said:

    malcolmg said:

    Scott_P said:

    The important question, now that Gove has blown up his own campaign, is whether he can still successfully derail BoZo.

    Or not.

    I don't think Gove could be seen knifing Boris or being complicit in such a knifing now. I think it's more likely he is exaggeratedly nice.
    He would do it in the back this time using a proxy, sure his wife will be consulting her cauldron as we speak.
    It’s a big cauldron!

    Also watch for Harry Cole, ironically of the MoS and behind today’s hit on Gove. Boris stole his girlfriend.
    What an incestuous bunch of drug addled swingers.
  • SouthamObserverSouthamObserver Posts: 39,653
    MaxPB said:

    nico67 said:

    MaxPB said:

    The moral high ground sought by some Labour members on here is great to see, as if it's any different for senior Labour MPs. The idea that any of our MPs haven't done a line or smoked a bit of weed at least once in their life defies the reality of Westminster.

    Most MPs are white and middle class, to not have done a line at least once would be a bigger shock, IMO.

    I’m a Labour voter and think people shouldn’t moralize , we’ve all done things we might have regretted.

    My issue against Gove isn’t his cocaine use , its the vomit inducing hypocrisy since.

    Game over for Gove , the interest now is who he decides to take down with him , Lady Macbeth won’t be happy and will want to exact some revenge .
    Oh I agree with that, it's the hypocrisy that will get him but comments on here about all of the Tory leadership being on drugs etc... is a bit much to take from members of the Labour party who's own leadership probably did a lot of regrettable stuff in their younger days.

    Which contenders for the Tory leadership have confirmed that they have not taken drugs? They all seem to have done it.

  • Black_RookBlack_Rook Posts: 8,905
    Artist said:

    malcolmg said:

    The old ones are the best(worst). Stick to your drug confessions and zany 'cancel VAT' schemes, Govey.

    https://twitter.com/MrJohnNicolson/status/1137657847481810946

    Sturgeons status vs 2019 Westminster politicians far better than Salmonds was in 2016 vs Cameron. Indeed plenty of floating voters would accept Corbyn plus Sturgeon but be petrified of a Corbyn outright majority.
    There's something in that, I expect (and the same goes for "dependent on LibDems"). The old "coalition of chaos" line isn't going to work either any more, since the Conservatives have bene providing a more chaotic coalition than we could possibly imagine.
    Yes bribing the DUP to help prop them up has blown any doubts that having a sane SNP as a reasonable partner could be bad. Good enough for both of them , hard to tell who is holding a long spoon and who is the devil between the Tories and the DUP, but Tories edge it.
    I don't think many Brexit Party voters who want Britain to 'take back control' would be too keen on Scottish Nationalists holding the balance of power at Westminster.
    Compared with having Corbyn and McDonnell going on the rampage unchecked, practically any coalition or confidence and supply partner is to be welcomed with open arms.

    People may or may not agree with the policy aims of the SNP, but at least they aren't mad.
  • malcolmgmalcolmg Posts: 43,362
    Pulpstar said:

    Market (Bar the Leadsom whale) thinks it'll be Boris vs Hunt

    Don't need to be much of a genius to have that opinion.
  • TheuniondivvieTheuniondivvie Posts: 42,005

    I think this is maybe getting overblown, hypocricy is the most fundamental principle of conservatism, I know they've been entryized but I don't see why they should completely abandon their values.

    But like so many of their fundamental principles, the Tories used to be really good at hypocrisy, now they're not. Modern life IS rubbish, it would appear.
  • geoffwgeoffw Posts: 8,722
    Looks like Boris is a shoo-in.
    If there's any further negotiation with the EU before we leave, then Gove may be the one to do it. He is a politician who can command a brief and also think outside the box. Let Boris set the parameters and put the Gover to work.
  • SouthamObserverSouthamObserver Posts: 39,653
    Sandpit said:

    Sandpit said:

    Sandpit said:

    Floater said:
    How does someone who’s nothing to do with the campaign end up at the count?

    How does a party let someone with a conviction for election fraud anywhere near the count?

    Sounds like someone is collecting evidence here, reports of voters turning up to be told they’d voted by post already appear very, err, Tower Hamlets-esque?
    Good points. Whoever let him anywhere near the campaign, assuming they did and he is not just a chancer with a rosette, needs a stern talking-to. On the other hand, the allegations do seem a bit third or fourth hand, rather late in the day, and from a Conservative rather than Brexit Party source.
    Remember that the BP’s idea of a ground game was manning a stall on the High St on Election Day, only Lab and Con really have boots on the ground in the town.

    (Snip)
    I think that's a little unfair on the BP (and I'm hardly a fan of theirs). A few weeks before the election, only UKIP and BP had any visible presence in the centre of Peterborough on a busy Saturday afternoon - and it was a large and happy presence.

    It's a bit much to expect them to match the Cons and Lab in the GOTV stakes when they don't have much of an organisational track record in the constituency or the data.
    It wasn’t really intended as a criticism of BP, they’re a new party learning to do things and didn’t have a local database. Rather it was a reply to an observation that the reports of unusual activity came from Con sources, as detailed in the MoS article.

    Given that the BXP does not have members, how will it ever build the ground-game and the local data that it needs?

  • Ishmael_ZIshmael_Z Posts: 8,981

    Ishmael_Z said:

    Scott_P said:
    On a more practical note we can hardly have a PM whose eligibility for a US visa waiver is in doubt. He also can't be given a consolation prize of Foreign Office for the same reason, or Home Office or justice because hypocrisy.
    On a practical note, if he's PM somebody can get him a visa
    Obviously. But it wouldn't be a great backdrop to his first visit there, with special features everywhere about how the rules for ordinary folk don't apply to our cokehead PM, would it now?
  • MaxPBMaxPB Posts: 38,868

    MaxPB said:

    nico67 said:

    MaxPB said:

    The moral high ground sought by some Labour members on here is great to see, as if it's any different for senior Labour MPs. The idea that any of our MPs haven't done a line or smoked a bit of weed at least once in their life defies the reality of Westminster.

    Most MPs are white and middle class, to not have done a line at least once would be a bigger shock, IMO.

    I’m a Labour voter and think people shouldn’t moralize , we’ve all done things we might have regretted.

    My issue against Gove isn’t his cocaine use , its the vomit inducing hypocrisy since.

    Game over for Gove , the interest now is who he decides to take down with him , Lady Macbeth won’t be happy and will want to exact some revenge .
    Oh I agree with that, it's the hypocrisy that will get him but comments on here about all of the Tory leadership being on drugs etc... is a bit much to take from members of the Labour party who's own leadership probably did a lot of regrettable stuff in their younger days.

    Which contenders for the Tory leadership have confirmed that they have not taken drugs? They all seem to have done it.

    Does that shock you? Would it shock you if the next set of Labour candidates said the same?
  • malcolmgmalcolmg Posts: 43,362
    geoffw said:

    Looks like Boris is a shoo-in.
    If there's any further negotiation with the EU before we leave, then Gove may be the one to do it. He is a politician who can command a brief and also think outside the box. Let Boris set the parameters and put the Gover to work.

    Yes, Let's send the crack head over to negotiate will go down a treat.
  • rottenboroughrottenborough Posts: 62,772

    Artist said:

    malcolmg said:

    The old ones are the best(worst). Stick to your drug confessions and zany 'cancel VAT' schemes, Govey.

    https://twitter.com/MrJohnNicolson/status/1137657847481810946

    Sturgeons status vs 2019 Westminster politicians far better than Salmonds was in 2016 vs Cameron. Indeed plenty of floating voters would accept Corbyn plus Sturgeon but be petrified of a Corbyn outright majority.
    There's something in that, I expect (and the same goes for "dependent on LibDems"). The old "coalition of chaos" line isn't going to work either any more, since the Conservatives have bene providing a more chaotic coalition than we could possibly imagine.
    Yes bribing the DUP to help prop them up has blown any doubts that having a sane SNP as a reasonable partner could be bad. Good enough for both of them , hard to tell who is holding a long spoon and who is the devil between the Tories and the DUP, but Tories edge it.
    I don't think many Brexit Party voters who want Britain to 'take back control' would be too keen on Scottish Nationalists holding the balance of power at Westminster.
    Compared with having Corbyn and McDonnell going on the rampage unchecked, practically any coalition or confidence and supply partner is to be welcomed with open arms.

    People may or may not agree with the policy aims of the SNP, but at least they aren't mad.
    And they believe in parliamentary democracy. I am unconvinced that can be truly said of Jezza's inner circle.
  • malcolmgmalcolmg Posts: 43,362
    Sandpit said:

    Sandpit said:

    Sandpit said:

    Floater said:
    How does someone who’s nothing to do with the campaign end up at the count?

    How does a party let someone with a conviction for election fraud anywhere near the count?

    Sounds like someone is collecting evidence here, reports of voters turning up to be told they’d voted by post already appear very, err, Tower Hamlets-esque?
    Good points. Whoever let him anywhere near the campaign, assuming they did and he is not just a chancer with a rosette, needs a stern talking-to. On the other hand, the allegations do seem a bit third or fourth hand, rather late in the day, and from a Conservative rather than Brexit Party source.
    Remember that the BP’s idea of a ground game was manning a stall on the High St on Election Day, only Lab and Con really have boots on the ground in the town.

    (Snip)
    I think that's a little unfair on the BP (and I'm hardly a fan of theirs). A few weeks before the election, only UKIP and BP had any visible presence in the centre of Peterborough on a busy Saturday afternoon - and it was a large and happy presence.

    It's a bit much to expect them to match the Cons and Lab in the GOTV stakes when they don't have much of an organisational track record in the constituency or the data.
    It wasn’t really intended as a criticism of BP, they’re a new party learning to do things and didn’t have a local database. Rather it was a reply to an observation that the reports of unusual activity came from Con sources, as detailed in the MoS article.
    Just another Farage ponzi scheme, he will be only one to benefit from BP
  • MaxPBMaxPB Posts: 38,868
    That's the other interesting aspect to all of this, Labour have stayed extremely quiet that the next potential PM could be a coke fiend. Rightly, they aren't moralising over it.
  • YorkcityYorkcity Posts: 4,382
    Surely if Boris Johnson wins, that is the end of Michael Gove as a cabinet minister.
    Revenge .
  • SouthamObserverSouthamObserver Posts: 39,653
    MaxPB said:

    MaxPB said:

    nico67 said:

    MaxPB said:

    The moral high ground sought by some Labour members on here is great to see, as if it's any different for senior Labour MPs. The idea that any of our MPs haven't done a line or smoked a bit of weed at least once in their life defies the reality of Westminster.

    Most MPs are white and middle class, to not have done a line at least once would be a bigger shock, IMO.

    I’m a Labour voter and think people shouldn’t moralize , we’ve all done things we might have regretted.

    My issue against Gove isn’t his cocaine use , its the vomit inducing hypocrisy since.

    Game over for Gove , the interest now is who he decides to take down with him , Lady Macbeth won’t be happy and will want to exact some revenge .
    Oh I agree with that, it's the hypocrisy that will get him but comments on here about all of the Tory leadership being on drugs etc... is a bit much to take from members of the Labour party who's own leadership probably did a lot of regrettable stuff in their younger days.

    Which contenders for the Tory leadership have confirmed that they have not taken drugs? They all seem to have done it.

    Does that shock you? Would it shock you if the next set of Labour candidates said the same?

    Not at all. I am not a member of the Labour party, but my guess is that anyone who stands for the Labour leadership next time will not have a track record of supporting punitive action against drug users.

  • PulpstarPulpstar Posts: 78,217
    I've dug out back to a small green (Not underwater) on Rory the Tory. Who knows with him !
  • malcolmgmalcolmg Posts: 43,362

    Sandpit said:

    Sandpit said:

    Sandpit said:

    Floater said:
    How does someone who’s nothing to do with the campaign end up at the count?

    How does a party let someone with a conviction for election fraud anywhere near the count?

    Sounds like someone is collecting evidence here, reports of voters turning up to be told they’d voted by post already appear very, err, Tower Hamlets-esque?
    Good points. Whoever let him anywhere near the campaign, assuming they did and he is not just a chancer with a rosette, needs a stern talking-to. On the other hand, the allegations do seem a bit third or fourth hand, rather late in the day, and from a Conservative rather than Brexit Party source.
    Remember that the BP’s idea of a ground game was manning a stall on the High St on Election Day, only Lab and Con really have boots on the ground in the town.

    (Snip)
    I think that's a little unfair on the BP (and I'm hardly a fan of theirs). A few weeks before the election, only UKIP and BP had any visible presence in the centre of Peterborough on a busy Saturday afternoon - and it was a large and happy presence.

    It's a bit much to expect them to match the Cons and Lab in the GOTV stakes when they don't have much of an organisational track record in the constituency or the data.
    It wasn’t really intended as a criticism of BP, they’re a new party learning to do things and didn’t have a local database. Rather it was a reply to an observation that the reports of unusual activity came from Con sources, as detailed in the MoS article.

    Given that the BXP does not have members, how will it ever build the ground-game and the local data that it needs?

    Doubt it will last long enough to need that, will be cut and run more like.
  • MaxPBMaxPB Posts: 38,868
    Yorkcity said:

    Surely if Boris Johnson wins, that is the end of Michael Gove as a cabinet minister.
    Revenge .

    Nah, he'll be given something like transport where he can make some kind of difference but also close off any leadership ambitions.
  • malcolmgmalcolmg Posts: 43,362
    Yorkcity said:

    Surely if Boris Johnson wins, that is the end of Michael Gove as a cabinet minister.
    Revenge .

    Hopefully and done in a blaze of publicity as well.
  • PulpstarPulpstar Posts: 78,217
    Question - Does doing coke once make you a cokehead or a coke fiend :D ?
    Or did Michael have a err "problem" ?
This discussion has been closed.