> @Jonathan said: > > @CD13 said: > > Mr B2, > > > > "He needs them not to know, for every policy he picks up other than Brexit would reduce their appeal." > > > > I hate to break it to you, but the only policy the Lib-Dems have is Balls to Brexit and Balls to Democracy. if you asked a hundred LD voters at the moment for another policy, a hundred and one wouldn't know any. > > The LDs have gone populist. They have learned the lesson of Trump, Farage and co.
It's only Balls to Democracy if you think FPTP is a a reasonable voting system for a democracy.
What kind of scoundrel brings the opinions of Americans into a debate?
A state educated non-Oxbridge one who courtesy of Mr Eagles has seen a poll that suggests British opinions are identical but can't find the bloody link.
> @RobD said: > > @shiney2 said: > > 1000 seats, all sold, full of cheering supporters. > > > > https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=vvJolPztLfM > > > > It's happening every Rally. > > > > Lincoln yesterday, Durham today. > > > > 27-30% is looking low.. > > Tomorrow, Nuremberg.
Nationalism with a load of crusty old nationalists. This must have been how it felt in Germany in the late 20s early 30s. The most creative and vibrant country in Europe with these unseen reactionaries under plausabe rabble rousers quietly raising their heads above the parapet......urgh!!
> @ydoethur said: > In a restaurant yesterday I noted that one could have gammon with BOTH pineapple and egg. > Sounds revolting. > > Gammon on pizza? Was it run by Dura Ace? > > I'm a #vegan. They test your piss for animal proteins when you join the Greens. > > Is that an admission that the Green programme is taking the piss?
> @rcs1000 said: > > @YBarddCwsc said: > > The division between state school and independent school students at Oxbridge is a charade. Whether they went to state school or independent school, the students come from very similar middle-class backgrounds. > > > > Ed Miliband was a state school student at Oxford. Ed Balls was an independent school student at Oxford. Their backgrounds are identical, they are both the sons of professors. > > > > The most glaring discrimination is in terms of geography. 50 per cent of students come from London and the South East. There are huge swathes of the country -- Wales, Scotland, the North of England -- that are massively under-represented. > > > > So, 50% of the students are from areas which generate 50% of the GDP. > > That sounds pretty proportional to me.
50% of the students at two south-eastern universities come from the south-east. I could have gone to Oxford. I chose Sheffield, because at 18, I didn't rrally perceive the advantage that Oxford would give me, and at 18, Oxford seemed an awfully long way from home.
> @ydoethur said: > That is in fact what many canny middle-class parents do. > Independent school till GCSEs, then transfer to a good (state) sixth-form college for A Levels. > The statistics only refer to the school from which the entrance application is made, so this would count as a state school entrant. > > That's an interesting statement, because while about 7% of all children are privately educated that figure skyrockets for those doing A-levels to something like 17%. I don't have the figures from last year, but check out the ones for 2015. > > www.independent.co.uk/news/education/education-news/number-of-pupils-attending-independent-schools-in-britain-on-the-rise-figures-show-10215959 > > So while your claimed canny middle class students head for the state sector a much larger number seem to be heading the other way.
Isn't that largely a product of different stay on rates? The vast majority of independent school students will stay on to do A levels, whereas a fair chunk of state school will leave to go onto non-A level courses, apprenticeships, etc.
> @Dura_Ace said: > In a restaurant yesterday I noted that one could have gammon with BOTH pineapple and egg. > Sounds revolting. > > Gammon on pizza? Was it run by Dura Ace? > > I'm a #vegan. They test your piss for animal proteins when you join the Greens.
Explains a lot.
I'm going out on a meat buying spree this morning. Can't wait.
@ydoethur Isn't that largely a product of different stay on rates? The vast majority of independent school students will stay on to do A levels, whereas a fair chunk of state school will leave to go onto non-A level courses, apprenticeships, etc.
That could be one reason, but it doesn't suggest a middle-class exodus to state sixth forms either.
> @Jonathan said: > The only subject more divisive than Brexit is private education and Oxbridge. > > Both need serious reform and neither are as good or as important as they think they are. > > What worries me most is how grown ups talk about them years after the the fact. These institutions repeatedly tell their customers they are the best thing since sliced bread, so much so that nothing that follows quite measures up. Quite cult like. A bit tragic really.
By which you mean taking a giant stick and whacking them with it.
There's nothing that the Government can 'do' to them that won't make the situation much worse. The best thing would be to work with what are fantastic educational assets in this country and make it far more flexible, and open-access. The Government should help fund scholarships and bursaries and places at the best schools, with portable funding for parents and children.
That's never going to happen due to politics, so instead the next Government will add VAT to private schools and rail against Oxbridge, thereby making it even more the preserve of the rich. We'll all pay more in tax and get worse national educational outcomes as a result.
> @williamglenn said: > You must be pleased they want us as a colony > > You don't think it was sarcastic mocking of Brexiteer rhetoric about being a vassal state?
You're deadly serious when you post about it on here.
> @Roger said: > > @RobD said: > > > @shiney2 said: > > > 1000 seats, all sold, full of cheering supporters. > > > > > > https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=vvJolPztLfM > > > > > > It's happening every Rally. > > > > > > Lincoln yesterday, Durham today. > > > > > > 27-30% is looking low.. > > > > Tomorrow, Nuremberg. > > Nationalism with a load of crusty old nationalists. This must have been how it felt in Germany in the late 20s early 30s. The most creative and vibrant country in Europe with these unseen reactionaries under plausabe rabble rousers quietly raising their heads above the parapet......urgh!!
> @rcs1000 said: > I'm going to go out on a limb here: > > I think OGH's bet is an excellent one. > > Here's how it could pay off. > > 1. In the actual ballot box, people are more confused by the difference between UKIP and Brexit than we think. (Remember, these polls are all panels of largely self selecting, politically aware people.) Maybe the BRX:UKIP split is as close as 70:30. > > 2. Remainers are more fired up. A large number of them signed a petition. > > 3. The LibDems (thanks to Bollocks to Brexit) manage to persuade people that they are the protest vote to make in favour of Remain. > > Let's say BRX:UKIP get 36% between them. Well, if 1 is correct, then BRX may only pick up 24-25%. > > And if 2 & 3 are correct, then the LDs could beat that. > > A probability? No. A possibility? Not even that. But a better than 150-1 chance, yes.
The problem is OGH is far too emotionally wedded to the LDs and it influences his betting.
I always take any of his LD articles with a very large pinch of salt. That said, on the evidence, at those odds, there's still a bit of value there.
> @ydoethur said: > @ydoethur Isn't that largely a product of different stay on rates? The vast majority of independent school students will stay on to do A levels, whereas a fair chunk of state school will leave to go onto non-A level courses, apprenticeships, etc. > > That could be one reason, but it doesn't suggest a middle-class exodus to state sixth forms either.
I'd agree on the latter, I've heard such movement talked about, but never actually seen much evidence of it.
> @Sean_F said: > > @Roger said: > > > @RobD said: > > > > @shiney2 said: > > > > 1000 seats, all sold, full of cheering supporters. > > > > > > > > https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=vvJolPztLfM > > > > > > > > It's happening every Rally. > > > > > > > > Lincoln yesterday, Durham today. > > > > > > > > 27-30% is looking low.. > > > > > > Tomorrow, Nuremberg. > > > > Nationalism with a load of crusty old nationalists. This must have been how it felt in Germany in the late 20s early 30s. The most creative and vibrant country in Europe with these unseen reactionaries under plausabe rabble rousers quietly raising their heads above the parapet......urgh!! > > Sounds good.
ChangeUK, another party with only one policy. And that is a policy of 'no change'. I suppose the policy could be called … 'Don't let the plebs take over.'
It has a niche because most people think they are better than average when it comes to judgement.
> @CD13 said: > ChangeUK, another party with only one policy. And that is a policy of 'no change'. I suppose the policy could be called … 'Don't let the plebs take over.' > > It has a niche because most people think they are better than average when it comes to judgement.
That’s clearly true. Every single assertion and assumption made by Leavers before the referendum has been confounded and yet in the teeth of all evidence they still think they can fix the car crash that is Brexit if they’re given five minutes more.
The problem has always been introducing MPs into the decision-making process once the voters have made the decision. A recipe for grandstanding, politicking, and internecine warfare.
The government implements the voters' decision. If they don't like the result, they vote out the government.
What did happen? The losers brought in the MPs, the winners didn't.
> @CD13 said: > Mr Meeks, > > The problem has always been introducing MPs into the decision-making process once the voters have made the decision. A recipe for grandstanding, politicking, and internecine warfare. > > The government implements the voters' decision. If they don't like the result, they vote out the government. > > What did happen? The losers brought in the MPs, the winners didn't.
We hold all the cards.
The easiest deal in history.
The German carmakers will be on our side.
It turns out Leavers didn’t have a clue what they wanted. And now, at the twelfth hour and first minute, they expect everyone to hang around while they look for something.
> The problem has always been introducing MPs into the decision-making process once the voters have made the decision. A recipe for grandstanding, politicking, and internecine warfare.
>
> The government implements the voters' decision. If they don't like the result, they vote out the government.
>
> What did happen? The losers brought in the MPs, the winners didn't.
We hold all the cards.
The easiest deal in history.
The German carmakers will be on our side.
It turns out Leavers didn’t have a clue what they wanted. And now, at the twelfth hour and first minute, they expect everyone to hang around while they look for something.
Leavers seem to have finally decided on something: a WTO exit and an economic depression.
Trouble is, it was the one type of Brexit they assured was not a wanted, and indeed, the very idea of it was a Project Fear plot.
> @CD13 said: > Mr Meeks, > > The problem has always been introducing MPs into the decision-making process once the voters have made the decision. A recipe for grandstanding, politicking, and internecine warfare. > > The government implements the voters' decision. If they don't like the result, they vote out the government. > > What did happen? The losers brought in the MPs, the winners didn't.
Voters... I’ve decided to become the the first Protestant pope, make it happen. Parliament... Hmmmm. I hear what you said, but you might have to become a catholic first or possibly consider becoming Archbishop of Canterbury instead.
If anyone can be bothered watch a little bit of that film from 13 mins on and see 'why the penny dropped for Tracy' the prospective MEP for the Midlands and how she realised what a con the EU was.
Tracy's damascene conversion when she heard the Czech woman was going to Brussels.......
> @Daveyboy1961 said: > O/T I would like to think that only the brightest and the best will go to Oxbridge. As a teacher in a private school myself, I know of 3 or 4 students who applied this year because they were "interested" in it. I was pleased in a way that they were rejected as it maintains the high standards of Oxbridge.
We are having a crazy week in July when we are doing open days in Oxford, LSE and Cambridge on 3 successive days. I can only presume that it is deliberate that they overlap like this so people choose earlier or something.
> @CD13 said: > ChangeUK, another party with only one policy. And that is a policy of 'no change'. I suppose the policy could be called … 'Don't let the plebs take over.' > > It has a niche because most people think they are better than average when it comes to judgement.
The Government has the power to leave the EU, not to make someone Pope.
Most people who vote for a party vote for the one that most accurately reflects their views. They won't necessarily reflect all their views.
Remainers saying that everyone who voted Brexit must support every part of the Leave protocol, otherwise it doesn't count are being childish. Not every Labour voter is anti-Semitic.
Who is sovereign? MPs or the voters? I may be in an echo chamber, but every voter I meet think it's the latter. Poor, deluded fools. All plebs, of course.
Mr. Jonathan, asserting it's impossible to leave the EU would not necessarily enhance the argument we haven't lost too much sovereignty.
Why is it so hard to remain and so hard to leave? Not because of the future but because of the past. Remainers are desperate not to say explicitly that leaving is impossible - for that admits their horrible secret. Leavers have been desperate not to say that leaving is long, painful and hard, because human nature prefers solutions that are quick, painless and easy.
There cannot be an easy solution to the democratic deficit involved in how we got to where we are in the EU, nor to the problem that the EU both is and is not a state - the first requiring democratic structures, the second, like NATO, not doing so. The EU has gone down the middle of having a partial and pretend democracy, held in contempt by UK voters. This is no surprise. The UK has gone down the middle path of incremental engagement lacking the wholehearted consent of the public stage by stage.
Only when we accept that there is no easy way to remain and no easy way to leave will be approach the matter as grown ups. More like reconstructing after a war than a little local difficulty with easy choices.
> @CD13 said: > Mr Meeks, > > The problem has always been introducing MPs into the decision-making process once the voters have made the decision. A recipe for grandstanding, politicking, and internecine warfare. > > The government implements the voters' decision. If they don't like the result, they vote out the government. > > What did happen? The losers brought in the MPs, the winners didn't.
Except what was the voters decision?
No Deal/No Plan Brexit as per Nigel?
Or a controlled and amicable departure as per Corbyn?
That is why the MPs are involved, unless you want the people to vote again.
> @CD13 said: > Mr Jonathan, > > The Government has the power to leave the EU, not to make someone Pope. > > Most people who vote for a party vote for the one that most accurately reflects their views. They won't necessarily reflect all their views. > > Remainers saying that everyone who voted Brexit must support every part of the Leave protocol, otherwise it doesn't count are being childish. Not every Labour voter is anti-Semitic. > > Who is sovereign? MPs or the voters? I may be in an echo chamber, but every voter I meet think it's the latter. Poor, deluded fools. All plebs, of course. > >
The problem is leaving without causing economic harm and delivering enhanced sovereignty. That was the promise of the campaign. More money for the NHS and taking back control at the same time. These are not mere details, but the heart of the thing.
I did offer to oversee the whole thing. The Government promised to implement it. I recognised that 45 years of integration would take some unravelling. Nearly as much as 300 years will in the case of Scottish Independence.
And has anyone told the Scots that the HoC will need to rubber stamp their decision if they vote for independence?.
> @ydoethur said: > > @AlastairMeeks said: > > > And for the record a well made Hawaiian pizza is a thing of beauty. > > > > A fact worth repeating > > @Jonathan > > The defence rests. > > Have a good morning.
Guilty! The judge puts garlic oil stained black paper napkin on his head to pronounce judgement. Have a lovely day.
> And, I would expect State schools that send large numbers of pupils to >Oxbridge to have quite an upper middle class intake.
Indeed.
The top state schools are: London Oratory School (shades of old Remainer friends TB and NC), Dame Alice Owens School, Varndean SFC, Long Road SFC, Hills Rd SFC, etc.
The London Oratory school is right up there with Westminster and St Pauls as regards Oxbridge entrance, but it is a “state” school so it is perfect for hypocrites like Blair & Clegg.
> @Morris_Dancer said: > Dr. Foxy, interesting you cite Corbyn, yet not May. > > The only difference, so far, is that the former wants a customs union, which is a demented idea.
Just examples!
But all Brexits are just different forms of dementia!
> @ydoethur said: > That is in fact what many canny middle-class parents do. > Independent school till GCSEs, then transfer to a good (state) sixth-form college for A Levels. > The statistics only refer to the school from which the entrance application is made, so this would count as a state school entrant. > > That's an interesting statement, because while about 7% of all children are privately educated that figure skyrockets for those doing A-levels to something like 17%. I don't have the figures from last year, but check out the ones for 2015. > > www.independent.co.uk/news/education/education-news/number-of-pupils-attending-independent-schools-in-britain-on-the-rise-figures-show-10215959 > > So while your claimed canny middle class students head for the state sector a much larger number seem to be heading the other way.
----
Many more state school pupils leave education after GCSEs.
What we need is the number of state school to independent switches after GCSEs, and vice versa, to see the effect.
I don’t think the effect is at all surprising. Whatever procedure is set up, there will be canny middle-class parents gaming it.
After all, David Miliband went to Oxford with a BBBD in his A levels courtesy of a scheme to bring disadvantaged pupils from state schools to Oxbridge.
Whether someone who is the son of a professor could really be described as disadvantaged is a moot point.
> @DavidL said: > > @Daveyboy1961 said: > > O/T I would like to think that only the brightest and the best will go to Oxbridge. As a teacher in a private school myself, I know of 3 or 4 students who applied this year because they were "interested" in it. I was pleased in a way that they were rejected as it maintains the high standards of Oxbridge. > > We are having a crazy week in July when we are doing open days in Oxford, LSE and Cambridge on 3 successive days. I can only presume that it is deliberate that they overlap like this so people choose earlier or something. > >
Us too.. But not lse! Also why are so many on Sept 7th.... But there's lots elsewhere in June but no good as that's when yr12 end of Yr exams are taken and those are vital for the predictions.....
> @CD13 said: > Dr Fox, > > I did offer to oversee the whole thing. The Government promised to implement it. I recognised that 45 years of integration would take some unravelling. Nearly as much as 300 years will in the case of Scottish Independence. > > And has anyone told the Scots that the HoC will need to rubber stamp their decision if they vote for independence?.
> @Dura_Ace said: > In a restaurant yesterday I noted that one could have gammon with BOTH pineapple and egg. > Sounds revolting. > > Gammon on pizza? Was it run by Dura Ace? > > I'm a #vegan. They test your piss for animal proteins when you join the Greens.
> I did offer to oversee the whole thing. The Government promised to implement it. I recognised that 45 years of integration would take some unravelling. Nearly as much as 300 years will in the case of Scottish Independence.
>
> And has anyone told the Scots that the HoC will need to rubber stamp their decision if they vote for independence?.
You, repeatedly.
Yes , like a broken record, these bellends are deluded.
Comments
> > @CD13 said:
> > Mr B2,
> >
> > "He needs them not to know, for every policy he picks up other than Brexit would reduce their appeal."
> >
> > I hate to break it to you, but the only policy the Lib-Dems have is Balls to Brexit and Balls to Democracy. if you asked a hundred LD voters at the moment for another policy, a hundred and one wouldn't know any.
>
> The LDs have gone populist. They have learned the lesson of Trump, Farage and co.
It's only Balls to Democracy if you think FPTP is a a reasonable voting system for a democracy.
> > @shiney2 said:
> > 1000 seats, all sold, full of cheering supporters.
> >
> > https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=vvJolPztLfM
> >
> > It's happening every Rally.
> >
> > Lincoln yesterday, Durham today.
> >
> > 27-30% is looking low..
>
> Tomorrow, Nuremberg.
Nationalism with a load of crusty old nationalists. This must have been how it felt in Germany in the late 20s early 30s. The most creative and vibrant country in Europe with these unseen reactionaries under plausabe rabble rousers quietly raising their heads above the parapet......urgh!!
> In a restaurant yesterday I noted that one could have gammon with BOTH pineapple and egg.
> Sounds revolting.
>
> Gammon on pizza? Was it run by Dura Ace?
>
> I'm a #vegan. They test your piss for animal proteins when you join the Greens.
>
> Is that an admission that the Green programme is taking the piss?
Or it is run by dipsticks?
> > @YBarddCwsc said:
> > The division between state school and independent school students at Oxbridge is a charade. Whether they went to state school or independent school, the students come from very similar middle-class backgrounds.
> >
> > Ed Miliband was a state school student at Oxford. Ed Balls was an independent school student at Oxford. Their backgrounds are identical, they are both the sons of professors.
> >
> > The most glaring discrimination is in terms of geography. 50 per cent of students come from London and the South East. There are huge swathes of the country -- Wales, Scotland, the North of England -- that are massively under-represented.
> >
>
> So, 50% of the students are from areas which generate 50% of the GDP.
>
> That sounds pretty proportional to me.
50% of the students at two south-eastern universities come from the south-east.
I could have gone to Oxford. I chose Sheffield, because at 18, I didn't rrally perceive the advantage that Oxford would give me, and at 18, Oxford seemed an awfully long way from home.
> That is in fact what many canny middle-class parents do.
> Independent school till GCSEs, then transfer to a good (state) sixth-form college for A Levels.
> The statistics only refer to the school from which the entrance application is made, so this would count as a state school entrant.
>
> That's an interesting statement, because while about 7% of all children are privately educated that figure skyrockets for those doing A-levels to something like 17%. I don't have the figures from last year, but check out the ones for 2015.
>
> www.independent.co.uk/news/education/education-news/number-of-pupils-attending-independent-schools-in-britain-on-the-rise-figures-show-10215959
>
> So while your claimed canny middle class students head for the state sector a much larger number seem to be heading the other way.
Isn't that largely a product of different stay on rates? The vast majority of independent school students will stay on to do A levels, whereas a fair chunk of state school will leave to go onto non-A level courses, apprenticeships, etc.
> In a restaurant yesterday I noted that one could have gammon with BOTH pineapple and egg.
> Sounds revolting.
>
> Gammon on pizza? Was it run by Dura Ace?
>
> I'm a #vegan. They test your piss for animal proteins when you join the Greens.
Explains a lot.
I'm going out on a meat buying spree this morning. Can't wait.
> The only subject more divisive than Brexit is private education and Oxbridge.
>
> Both need serious reform and neither are as good or as important as they think they are.
>
> What worries me most is how grown ups talk about them years after the the fact. These institutions repeatedly tell their customers they are the best thing since sliced bread, so much so that nothing that follows quite measures up. Quite cult like. A bit tragic really.
By which you mean taking a giant stick and whacking them with it.
There's nothing that the Government can 'do' to them that won't make the situation much worse. The best thing would be to work with what are fantastic educational assets in this country and make it far more flexible, and open-access. The Government should help fund scholarships and bursaries and places at the best schools, with portable funding for parents and children.
That's never going to happen due to politics, so instead the next Government will add VAT to private schools and rail against Oxbridge, thereby making it even more the preserve of the rich. We'll all pay more in tax and get worse national educational outcomes as a result.
> You must be pleased they want us as a colony
>
> You don't think it was sarcastic mocking of Brexiteer rhetoric about being a vassal state?
You're deadly serious when you post about it on here.
> > @RobD said:
> > > @shiney2 said:
> > > 1000 seats, all sold, full of cheering supporters.
> > >
> > > https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=vvJolPztLfM
> > >
> > > It's happening every Rally.
> > >
> > > Lincoln yesterday, Durham today.
> > >
> > > 27-30% is looking low..
> >
> > Tomorrow, Nuremberg.
>
> Nationalism with a load of crusty old nationalists. This must have been how it felt in Germany in the late 20s early 30s. The most creative and vibrant country in Europe with these unseen reactionaries under plausabe rabble rousers quietly raising their heads above the parapet......urgh!!
Sounds good.
> ChangeUK really need to stop whining, it is making me reconsider whether they should get my vote in the Euros.
I think the bet at Ladbrokes for them to get <5% at the Euros is value at 7/4.
They have no logo, no campaign, no competence and no traction, with the Lib Dems getting all the coverage in the last few days.
> I'm going to go out on a limb here:
>
> I think OGH's bet is an excellent one.
>
> Here's how it could pay off.
>
> 1. In the actual ballot box, people are more confused by the difference between UKIP and Brexit than we think. (Remember, these polls are all panels of largely self selecting, politically aware people.) Maybe the BRX:UKIP split is as close as 70:30.
>
> 2. Remainers are more fired up. A large number of them signed a petition.
>
> 3. The LibDems (thanks to Bollocks to Brexit) manage to persuade people that they are the protest vote to make in favour of Remain.
>
> Let's say BRX:UKIP get 36% between them. Well, if 1 is correct, then BRX may only pick up 24-25%.
>
> And if 2 & 3 are correct, then the LDs could beat that.
>
> A probability? No. A possibility? Not even that. But a better than 150-1 chance, yes.
The problem is OGH is far too emotionally wedded to the LDs and it influences his betting.
I always take any of his LD articles with a very large pinch of salt. That said, on the evidence, at those odds, there's still a bit of value there.
> @ydoethur Isn't that largely a product of different stay on rates? The vast majority of independent school students will stay on to do A levels, whereas a fair chunk of state school will leave to go onto non-A level courses, apprenticeships, etc.
>
> That could be one reason, but it doesn't suggest a middle-class exodus to state sixth forms either.
I'd agree on the latter, I've heard such movement talked about, but never actually seen much evidence of it.
> > @Roger said:
> > > @RobD said:
> > > > @shiney2 said:
> > > > 1000 seats, all sold, full of cheering supporters.
> > > >
> > > > https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=vvJolPztLfM
> > > >
> > > > It's happening every Rally.
> > > >
> > > > Lincoln yesterday, Durham today.
> > > >
> > > > 27-30% is looking low..
> > >
> > > Tomorrow, Nuremberg.
> >
> > Nationalism with a load of crusty old nationalists. This must have been how it felt in Germany in the late 20s early 30s. The most creative and vibrant country in Europe with these unseen reactionaries under plausabe rabble rousers quietly raising their heads above the parapet......urgh!!
>
> Sounds good.
There lies the problem.....Know your neighbour
https://twitter.com/CRASH_NET_F1/status/1126910621386252289
It has a niche because most people think they are better than average when it comes to judgement.
> ChangeUK, another party with only one policy. And that is a policy of 'no change'. I suppose the policy could be called … 'Don't let the plebs take over.'
>
> It has a niche because most people think they are better than average when it comes to judgement.
That’s clearly true. Every single assertion and assumption made by Leavers before the referendum has been confounded and yet in the teeth of all evidence they still think they can fix the car crash that is Brexit if they’re given five minutes more.
The problem has always been introducing MPs into the decision-making process once the voters have made the decision. A recipe for grandstanding, politicking, and internecine warfare.
The government implements the voters' decision. If they don't like the result, they vote out the government.
What did happen? The losers brought in the MPs, the winners didn't.
> Mr Meeks,
>
> The problem has always been introducing MPs into the decision-making process once the voters have made the decision. A recipe for grandstanding, politicking, and internecine warfare.
>
> The government implements the voters' decision. If they don't like the result, they vote out the government.
>
> What did happen? The losers brought in the MPs, the winners didn't.
We hold all the cards.
The easiest deal in history.
The German carmakers will be on our side.
It turns out Leavers didn’t have a clue what they wanted. And now, at the twelfth hour and first minute, they expect everyone to hang around while they look for something.
Bamber could be back on:
https://www.telegraph.co.uk/politics/2019/05/10/could-amber-rudds-attack-tory-parade-wives-mean-leadership-pact/
All rumour and hearsay obviously.
Trouble is, it was the one type of Brexit they assured was not a wanted, and indeed, the very idea of it was a Project Fear plot.
Especially saying it twice...
> Mr Meeks,
>
> The problem has always been introducing MPs into the decision-making process once the voters have made the decision. A recipe for grandstanding, politicking, and internecine warfare.
>
> The government implements the voters' decision. If they don't like the result, they vote out the government.
>
> What did happen? The losers brought in the MPs, the winners didn't.
Voters... I’ve decided to become the the first Protestant pope, make it happen.
Parliament... Hmmmm. I hear what you said, but you might have to become a catholic first or possibly consider becoming Archbishop of Canterbury instead.
Farage.... Betrayal!
Tracy's damascene conversion when she heard the Czech woman was going to Brussels.......
> And for the record a well made Hawaiian pizza is a thing of beauty.
A fact worth repeating
> O/T I would like to think that only the brightest and the best will go to Oxbridge. As a teacher in a private school myself, I know of 3 or 4 students who applied this year because they were "interested" in it. I was pleased in a way that they were rejected as it maintains the high standards of Oxbridge.
We are having a crazy week in July when we are doing open days in Oxford, LSE and Cambridge on 3 successive days. I can only presume that it is deliberate that they overlap like this so people choose earlier or something.
> ChangeUK, another party with only one policy. And that is a policy of 'no change'. I suppose the policy could be called … 'Don't let the plebs take over.'
>
> It has a niche because most people think they are better than average when it comes to judgement.
And driving. And sex for that matter.
The Government has the power to leave the EU, not to make someone Pope.
Most people who vote for a party vote for the one that most accurately reflects their views. They won't necessarily reflect all their views.
Remainers saying that everyone who voted Brexit must support every part of the Leave protocol, otherwise it doesn't count are being childish. Not every Labour voter is anti-Semitic.
Who is sovereign? MPs or the voters? I may be in an echo chamber, but every voter I meet think it's the latter. Poor, deluded fools. All plebs, of course.
The defence rests.
Have a good morning.
https://www.reuters.com/article/us-usa-election-biden-climate-exclusive-idUSKCN1SG18G
There cannot be an easy solution to the democratic deficit involved in how we got to where we are in the EU, nor to the problem that the EU both is and is not a state - the first requiring democratic structures, the second, like NATO, not doing so. The EU has gone down the middle of having a partial and pretend democracy, held in contempt by UK voters. This is no surprise. The UK has gone down the middle path of incremental engagement lacking the wholehearted consent of the public stage by stage.
Only when we accept that there is no easy way to remain and no easy way to leave will be approach the matter as grown ups. More like reconstructing after a war than a little local difficulty with easy choices.
> And for the record a well made Hawaiian pizza is a thing of beauty.
What is the PB view on pineapple fried rice?
"And sex for that matter."
I remember the old joke. A man somewhat deficient in length was asked by a lady of the night.
"Who do you think that's going to satisfy?"
His reply … "Me."
> Mr Meeks,
>
> The problem has always been introducing MPs into the decision-making process once the voters have made the decision. A recipe for grandstanding, politicking, and internecine warfare.
>
> The government implements the voters' decision. If they don't like the result, they vote out the government.
>
> What did happen? The losers brought in the MPs, the winners didn't.
Except what was the voters decision?
No Deal/No Plan Brexit as per Nigel?
Or a controlled and amicable departure as per Corbyn?
That is why the MPs are involved, unless you want the people to vote again.
> Mr Jonathan,
>
> The Government has the power to leave the EU, not to make someone Pope.
>
> Most people who vote for a party vote for the one that most accurately reflects their views. They won't necessarily reflect all their views.
>
> Remainers saying that everyone who voted Brexit must support every part of the Leave protocol, otherwise it doesn't count are being childish. Not every Labour voter is anti-Semitic.
>
> Who is sovereign? MPs or the voters? I may be in an echo chamber, but every voter I meet think it's the latter. Poor, deluded fools. All plebs, of course.
>
>
The problem is leaving without causing economic harm and delivering enhanced sovereignty. That was the promise of the campaign. More money for the NHS and taking back control at the same time. These are not mere details, but the heart of the thing.
The govt does not have the power to deliver that.
I did offer to oversee the whole thing. The Government promised to implement it. I recognised that 45 years of integration would take some unravelling. Nearly as much as 300 years will in the case of Scottish Independence.
And has anyone told the Scots that the HoC will need to rubber stamp their decision if they vote for independence?.
The only difference, so far, is that the former wants a customs union, which is a demented idea.
> > @AlastairMeeks said:
>
> > And for the record a well made Hawaiian pizza is a thing of beauty.
>
>
>
> A fact worth repeating
>
> @Jonathan
>
> The defence rests.
>
> Have a good morning.
Guilty! The judge puts garlic oil stained black paper napkin on his head to pronounce judgement. Have a lovely day.
Indeed.
The top state schools are: London Oratory School (shades of old Remainer friends TB and NC), Dame Alice Owens School, Varndean SFC, Long Road SFC, Hills Rd SFC, etc.
The London Oratory school is right up there with Westminster and St Pauls as regards Oxbridge entrance, but it is a “state” school so it is perfect for hypocrites like Blair & Clegg.
> Dr. Foxy, interesting you cite Corbyn, yet not May.
>
> The only difference, so far, is that the former wants a customs union, which is a demented idea.
Just examples!
But all Brexits are just different forms of dementia!
> That is in fact what many canny middle-class parents do.
> Independent school till GCSEs, then transfer to a good (state) sixth-form college for A Levels.
> The statistics only refer to the school from which the entrance application is made, so this would count as a state school entrant.
>
> That's an interesting statement, because while about 7% of all children are privately educated that figure skyrockets for those doing A-levels to something like 17%. I don't have the figures from last year, but check out the ones for 2015.
>
> www.independent.co.uk/news/education/education-news/number-of-pupils-attending-independent-schools-in-britain-on-the-rise-figures-show-10215959
>
> So while your claimed canny middle class students head for the state sector a much larger number seem to be heading the other way.
----
Many more state school pupils leave education after GCSEs.
What we need is the number of state school to independent switches after GCSEs, and vice versa, to see the effect.
I don’t think the effect is at all surprising. Whatever procedure is set up, there will be canny middle-class parents gaming it.
After all, David Miliband went to Oxford with a BBBD in his A levels courtesy of a scheme to bring disadvantaged pupils from state schools to Oxbridge.
Whether someone who is the son of a professor could really be described as disadvantaged is a moot point.
> > @Daveyboy1961 said:
> > O/T I would like to think that only the brightest and the best will go to Oxbridge. As a teacher in a private school myself, I know of 3 or 4 students who applied this year because they were "interested" in it. I was pleased in a way that they were rejected as it maintains the high standards of Oxbridge.
>
> We are having a crazy week in July when we are doing open days in Oxford, LSE and Cambridge on 3 successive days. I can only presume that it is deliberate that they overlap like this so people choose earlier or something.
>
>
Us too.. But not lse! Also why are so many on Sept 7th.... But there's lots elsewhere in June but no good as that's when yr12 end of Yr exams are taken and those are vital for the predictions.....
> Dr Fox,
>
> I did offer to oversee the whole thing. The Government promised to implement it. I recognised that 45 years of integration would take some unravelling. Nearly as much as 300 years will in the case of Scottish Independence.
>
> And has anyone told the Scots that the HoC will need to rubber stamp their decision if they vote for independence?.
You, repeatedly.
> In a restaurant yesterday I noted that one could have gammon with BOTH pineapple and egg.
> Sounds revolting.
>
> Gammon on pizza? Was it run by Dura Ace?
>
> I'm a #vegan. They test your piss for animal proteins when you join the Greens.
So that's why my wife doesn't [MODERATED].
(Both of those are possible but rarely achieved)
Like Brexit.
> Last.
>
> Like Brexit.
Such accuracy..