While I think people are frequently looking for offence (and finding it where it is deserved...and where it isn't) "colourblindness" is an interesting case.
It is absolutely coming from a position of privilege - you can't be "colourblind" if you are on the discriminated-against side of that equation. So "colourblind" isn't seen as a sensitive position, which should be something more like "awareness but fairness".
And in this case, he wasn't aware, so made a massive blunder. For which he should be called to account and apologize. Which he did. But he probably shouldn't be sacked for it, unless there are a string of other examples.
The Corbyn "I didn't know about the mural" thing is a similar example. In his case, there are a string of other issues, which means it was his responsibility to be aware. And that's why I am less forgiving of him.
To put my woke plaid shirt on for a moment, and to agree with you, as a product of embedded white privilege, Baker was not, following Eduardo Bonilla-Silva, entitled to be colourblind and I was wrong to say being colourblind was ok.
I hate myself and will repost this to CiF as a penance.
Edit: and as for Corbyn you are absolutely on the money also.
> @glw said: > The Corbyn "I didn't know about the mural" thing is a similar example. In his case, there are a string of other issues, which means it was his responsibility to be aware. And that's why I am less forgiving of him. > > The thing about Corbyn is he claims to have campaigned against almost all forms of discrimination for decades, so it's quite implausible to believe he genuinely didn't recognise some to the recent occurances. He ought to be highly attuned to such things, but strangely when it comes to his own party his powers wane.
Re Danny Baker....I think the question is should he have been sacked or some other punishment?
Again, like I have said before in regards other criticism of people saying / doing offensive things. Is this a one-off, and one where a genuine apology and some time to reflect would be a sufficient punishment, or is this a pattern of behaviour.
I honestly don't follow Danny Baker very closely so I have no idea if he has been in trouble before over his social media / radio show output. Perhaps he was already on his last warning with the BBC bigwigs?
In comparison to say Jezza, every week somebody digs up something where again it shows Jezza associating with antisemites / antisemitic tropes.
> @mwadams said: > > @glw said: > > The Corbyn "I didn't know about the mural" thing is a similar example. In his case, there are a string of other issues, which means it was his responsibility to be aware. And that's why I am less forgiving of him. > > > > The thing about Corbyn is he claims to have campaigned against almost all forms of discrimination for decades, so it's quite implausible to believe he genuinely didn't recognise some to the recent occurances. He ought to be highly attuned to such things, but strangely when it comes to his own party his powers wane. > > Exactly. The ignorance of convenience.
I think it's the ignorance of ideology. Racism = power + prejudice. Therefore, individuals or groups you consider powerful cannot be victims of racism.
> @TOPPING said: > While I think people are frequently looking for offence (and finding it where it is deserved...and where it isn't) "colourblindness" is an interesting case. > > It is absolutely coming from a position of privilege - you can't be "colourblind" if you are on the discriminated-against side of that equation. So "colourblind" isn't seen as a sensitive position, which should be something more like "awareness but fairness". > > And in this case, he wasn't aware, so made a massive blunder. For which he should be called to account and apologize. Which he did. But he probably shouldn't be sacked for it, unless there are a string of other examples. > > The Corbyn "I didn't know about the mural" thing is a similar example. In his case, there are a string of other issues, which means it was his responsibility to be aware. And that's why I am less forgiving of him. > > To put my woke plaid shirt on for a moment, and to agree with you, as a product of embedded white privilege, Baker was not, following Eduardo Bonilla-Silva, entitled to be colourblind and I was wrong to say being colourblind was ok. > > I hate myself and will repost this to CiF as a penance. > > Edit: and as for Corbyn you are absolutely on the money also.
Good grief, that's a punishment too far. Have a cup of non-milkified tea and ponder our crimes.
> I'm not aligned to the LibDems by any stretch, but I think they got a raw deal for their time in government. They were only ever going to get a limited amount of airtime for their policies as the minor party (especially where those clashed with Tory ones), but in hindsight helped deliver remarkably stable government and probably put a bit of a brake on austerity.. maybe not much compared to Cameron's own instincts, but by helping to keep the right of the Tory party from cutting harder and faster. Considering the shitshow we've had since with a subsequent minority administration, I think they deserve much credit from the uncommitted voter.
I agree with much of this. It is easy to forget that the alternative for the LDs was in 2010 was to refuse coalition handing Cameron and Austerity a large Majority in an October 2010 election.
The problem was that they made a few big mistakes which had a very big influence on how the 2010 LD voters precieved the party. I winced every time a LD cabinet minister actively supported a clearly tory motivated policy, rather than answering a neutral "that is what the cabinet voted for".
> @FrancisUrquhart said: > Re Danny Baker....I think the question is should he have been sacked or some other punishment? > > Again, like I have said before in regards other criticism of people saying / doing offensive things. Is this a one-off, and one where a genuine apology and some time to reflect would be a sufficient punishment, or is this a pattern of behaviour. > > I honestly don't follow Danny Baker very closely so I have no idea if he has been in trouble before over his social media / radio show output. Perhaps he was already on his last warning with the BBC bigwigs? > > In comparison to say Jezza, every week somebody digs up something where again it shows Jezza associating with antisemites / antisemitic tropes.
I listened to his show last Saturday. Rambling and didn't make much sense, but harmless enough and passed the time.
> > Widdecombe is off her trolley if she thinks appealing for more sacrifice (for what end?) is going to have much appeal after ten years of austerity.
>
> >
>
> >
>
> >
>
> > Meanwhile, Farage’s choice of candidate for Peterborough surely makes Labour favourites again? Whilst a millionaire former Tory donor might appeal to Tory leavers, it gives Labour an easy line to put its own leavers off voting for him.
>
> >
>
> > The market went from 11/8 to 4/5 so doesn’t seem so
>
> >
>
> > The market also had Neil Hamilton 2nd in Newport West.
>
>
>
> Exactly. Backing Labour is probably now a value bet.
>
> What is the motivation for voting Labour in Peterborough?
>
> No leavers will
> Neither will any hardcore remainers
> Plenty will be disgusted with the behaviour of the ex Labour MP
> Labour only won in 2017 when they promised to back Brexit and UKIP didn’t stand
The idea that 'no leaver' will vote Labour in Peterborough is just daft. You are assuming that every voter who supported Leave is as obsessed with the issue as you appear to be. It would not even be true of some voters who were firm Leave voters in 2016 - simply because other issues will override it. That is even more likely to be the case for those who remained genuinely undecided until the last moment before coming off the fence on a 51- 49 basis. I voted Leave - but will vote Labour on 23rd May. I will spoil my ballot paper at the General Election - but for reasons totally unrelated to Brexit.
Brexit is the political story of the century, discussing it on a politics website is hardly obsession.
Think what you like, but my view is leavers won’t be voting Labour in Peterborough
> @Sean_F said: > > @mwadams said: > > > @glw said: > > > The Corbyn "I didn't know about the mural" thing is a similar example. In his case, there are a string of other issues, which means it was his responsibility to be aware. And that's why I am less forgiving of him. > > > > > > The thing about Corbyn is he claims to have campaigned against almost all forms of discrimination for decades, so it's quite implausible to believe he genuinely didn't recognise some to the recent occurances. He ought to be highly attuned to such things, but strangely when it comes to his own party his powers wane. > > > > Exactly. The ignorance of convenience. > > I think it's the ignorance of ideology. Racism = power + prejudice. Therefore, individuals or groups you consider powerful cannot be victims of racism.
And, perhaps, by ideological assertion. "We are not racist. Therefore nothing we do is racist, even if we would judge it to be so, when done by others."
> @Stark_Dawning said: > I never much liked Danny Baker's radio show - too much inane talking over the music - so I'm glad he's been sacked.
I think you might be thinking of someone else? Danny Baker had a show on Radio 5 - no music involved.
This is a great shame, in my opinion - Danny Baker's show was one of the best things on the radio - Danny Baker is that rare interviewer: one who is guided by what makes an interesting and/or amusing conversation, rather than one seeing his interviewee as an adversary.
> @isam said: > .> @isam > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > Widdecombe is off her trolley if she thinks appealing for more sacrifice (for what end?) is going to have much appeal after ten years of austerity. > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > Meanwhile, Farage’s choice of candidate for Peterborough surely makes Labour favourites again? Whilst a millionaire former Tory donor might appeal to Tory leavers, it gives Labour an easy line to put its own leavers off voting for him. > > > > > > > > > > > > > > The market went from 11/8 to 4/5 so doesn’t seem so > > > > > > > > > > > > > > The market also had Neil Hamilton 2nd in Newport West. > > > > > > > > > > > > Exactly. Backing Labour is probably now a value bet. > > > > > > What is the motivation for voting Labour in Peterborough? > > > > > > No leavers will > > > Neither will any hardcore remainers > > > Plenty will be disgusted with the behaviour of the ex Labour MP > > > Labour only won in 2017 when they promised to back Brexit and UKIP didn’t stand > > > > The idea that 'no leaver' will vote Labour in Peterborough is just daft. You are assuming that every voter who supported Leave is as obsessed with the issue as you appear to be. It would not even be true of some voters who were firm Leave voters in 2016 - simply because other issues will override it. That is even more likely to be the case for those who remained genuinely undecided until the last moment before coming off the fence on a 51- 49 basis. I voted Leave - but will vote Labour on 23rd May. I will spoil my ballot paper at the General Election - but for reasons totally unrelated to Brexit. > > Brexit is the political story of the century, discussing it on a politics website is hardly obsession. > > Think what you like, but my view is leavers won’t be voting Labour in Peterborough
Not a single Leaver! Do you really believe that? For very many voters Brexit is very far from being ' the political story of the century'. You may be obsessed by it , but others find it highly technical , boring , dreary - and are desperate to discuss other things. By the way, UKIP stood down in 2017 to help Stewart Jackson the incumbent Tory who was defeated.
> @Cookie said: > > @Stark_Dawning said: > > I never much liked Danny Baker's radio show - too much inane talking over the music - so I'm glad he's been sacked. > > I think you might be thinking of someone else? Danny Baker had a show on Radio 5 - no music involved. > > This is a great shame, in my opinion - Danny Baker's show was one of the best things on the radio - Danny Baker is that rare interviewer: one who is guided by what makes an interesting and/or amusing conversation, rather than one seeing his interviewee as an adversary.
I would be shocked if he isn't picked up by another station.
It is absolutely coming from a position of privilege - you can't be "colourblind" if you are on the discriminated-against side of that equation. So "colourblind" isn't seen as a sensitive position, which should be something more like "awareness but fairness".
And in this case, he wasn't aware, so made a massive blunder. For which he should be called to account and apologize. Which he did. But he probably shouldn't be sacked for it, unless there are a string of other examples...
Sounds reasonable. His reaction to the sacking is perhaps similarly ill-considered (or unconsidered).
All a bit sad, as I genuinely enjoyed his Saturday morning R5 gig, which was a masterpiece of trivia and whimsy - and something which in virtually any other hands would be unlistenable.
I listened to his show last Saturday. Rambling and didn't make much sense, but harmless enough and passed the time.
Back in the day and I mean back in the day he used to be fantastic. I think he is trading on his reputation of old.
I remember one programme he had the woman on who was the singer on Great Gig in the Sky on Dark Side of the Moon, Clare Torry. Apparently as she told it she was just passing the studio while they were recording the track and they grabbed her and asked her to do her thing. She was very sweet.
Although I see from google that she then sued them for co-composition.
> @Cyclefree said: > > @dr_spyn said: > > Have any PBers had their postal vote ballot papers delivered? > > I finally got it this morning. And have voted. > >
> I never much liked Danny Baker's radio show - too much inane talking over the music - so I'm glad he's been sacked.
I think you might be thinking of someone else? Danny Baker had a show on Radio 5 - no music involved.
This is a great shame, in my opinion - Danny Baker's show was one of the best things on the radio - Danny Baker is that rare interviewer: one who is guided by what makes an interesting and/or amusing conversation, rather than one seeing his interviewee as an adversary.
Not at all. I remember when Baker took over from DLT on Radio 1 in the mid 1990s. I even remember his godawful Daz adverts. I know his career intimately.
Having looked up Danny Bakers tweet, it really is astonishing, as is the number of folk unable to see what is racist about it!
There are genuinely colourblind people out there Foxy and I believe Danny Baker is one of them. Huge fucking idiot I accept, but not racist.
His tweet however can be seen as a clarion call to racists who would know exactly how to interpret it. Which is why he was sacked. But the tweet itself was not racist. It "just" emboldened racism.
The analogy with Corbyn is almost too perfect. (Only analogy as I do believe Corbyn is actually racist but it also works if you believe he is not.)
White men just can’t compare mixed race people to monkeys, even if they have no history of racism. (Roy Hodgsons analogy was different in my opinion) I can’t believe Danny Baker was so stupid to do it, did he really think it would go down well?
As I said I believe he is genuinely colourblind.
Being "colourblind" is itself problematic. Unless truly blind, we cannot not know someone is black. Pretending it doesn't matter, to deny them their experience of being black in a historically white society, is not showing appropriate respect for their experience.
To call me a monkey is merely facile, to call one of my black colleagues the same is much more serious indeed.
Having looked up Danny Bakers tweet, it really is astonishing, as is the number of folk unable to see what is racist about it!
There are genuinely colourblind people out there Foxy and I believe Danny Baker is one of them. Huge fucking idiot I accept, but not racist.
His tweet however can be seen as a clarion call to racists who would know exactly how to interpret it. Which is why he was sacked. But the tweet itself was not racist. It "just" emboldened racism.
The analogy with Corbyn is almost too perfect. (Only analogy as I do believe Corbyn is actually racist but it also works if you believe he is not.)
White men just can’t compare mixed race people to monkeys, even if they have no history of racism. (Roy Hodgsons analogy was different in my opinion) I can’t believe Danny Baker was so stupid to do it, did he really think it would go down well?
As I said I believe he is genuinely colourblind.
Being "colourblind" is itself problematic. Unless truly blind, we cannot not know someone is black. Pretending it doesn't matter, to deny them their experience of being black in a historically white society, is not showing appropriate respect for their experience.
To call me a monkey is merely facile, to call one of my black colleagues the same is much more serious indeed.
Looks and sounds like a whole lot of cutting and pasting there, young fella.
> @Sean_F said: > > @Cyclefree said: > > > @dr_spyn said: > > > Have any PBers had their postal vote ballot papers delivered? > > > > I finally got it this morning. And have voted. > > > > > > For UKIP?
> @Stark_Dawning said: > In this this tumultuous and unpredictable world one thing's for certain: Brendan O'Neil will write an article lambasting the sacking of Danny Baker.
Having looked up Danny Bakers tweet, it really is astonishing, as is the number of folk unable to see what is racist about it!
There are genuinely colourblind people out there Foxy and I believe Danny Baker is one of them. Huge fucking idiot I accept, but not racist.
His tweet however can be seen as a clarion call to racists who would know exactly how to interpret it. Which is why he was sacked. But the tweet itself was not racist. It "just" emboldened racism.
The analogy with Corbyn is almost too perfect. (Only analogy as I do believe Corbyn is actually racist but it also works if you believe he is not.)
White men just can’t compare mixed race people to monkeys, even if they have no history of racism. (Roy Hodgsons analogy was different in my opinion) I can’t believe Danny Baker was so stupid to do it, did he really think it would go down well?
As I said I believe he is genuinely colourblind.
Being "colourblind" is itself problematic. Unless truly blind, we cannot not know someone is black. Pretending it doesn't matter, to deny them their experience of being black in a historically white society, is not showing appropriate respect for their experience.
To call me a monkey is merely facile, to call one of my black colleagues the same is much more serious indeed.
Looks and sounds like a whole lot of cutting and pasting there, young fella.
> @TOPPING said: > In less trendy establishments, 'a coffee' might well come with milk already in it as standard. > > The Stibbington Truckstop on the A1 wouldn't serve it any other way.
They'd probably already look at you a bit funny for not ordering tea.
Dammit that was probably the closest I came to being relevant.
Does "Blockquote Saviour" count for anything?
Fighting a losing battle on that, I'm afraid. Like, I've complied here but I had to hunt down the 'vanilla' site in order to do so. That took quite a considerable amount of technical nous from yours truly - not sure other posters will be so blessed with it.
I do hope the previous look & feel returns. I preferred it. More formal.
> @Foxy said: > Having looked up Danny Bakers tweet, it really is astonishing, as is the number of folk unable to see what is racist about it! > > There are genuinely colourblind people out there Foxy and I believe Danny Baker is one of them. Huge fucking idiot I accept, but not racist. > > His tweet however can be seen as a clarion call to racists who would know exactly how to interpret it. Which is why he was sacked. But the tweet itself was not racist. It "just" emboldened racism. > > The analogy with Corbyn is almost too perfect. (Only analogy as I do believe Corbyn is actually racist but it also works if you believe he is not.) > > White men just can’t compare mixed race people to monkeys, even if they have no history of racism. (Roy Hodgsons analogy was different in my opinion) I can’t believe Danny Baker was so stupid to do it, did he really think it would go down well? > > As I said I believe he is genuinely colourblind. > > Being "colourblind" is itself problematic. Unless truly blind, we cannot not know someone is black. Pretending it doesn't matter, to deny them their experience of being black in a historically white society, is not showing appropriate respect for their experience. > > To call me a monkey is merely facile, to call one of my black colleagues the same is much more serious indeed.
I was told recently of a mixed race mother who went to the nursery to collect her child at 'home time' and noticed he was in a corner. 'What's he doing there?" "Oh he's been a little monkey!' Cue complaint, and horror from the nursery staff member who has simply meant that the little chap had been a bit naughty that afternoon.
Dammit that was probably the closest I came to being relevant.
Does "Blockquote Saviour" count for anything?
Fighting a losing battle on that, I'm afraid. Like, I've complied here but I had to hunt down the 'vanilla' site in order to do so. That took quite a considerable amount of technical nous from yours truly - not sure other posters are so blessed with it.
I do hope the previous look & feel returns. I preferred it. More formal.
Sorry, like portrait video I'm getting used to the > > >> !
Gaslighting? He is presumably trying to say she was lying to the left, not that she was trying to drive the left crazy by making them doubt their own sanity. Why use a buzzword incorrectly when the word "lying" summed it up perfectly.
> @Harris_Tweed said: > > @TOPPING said: > > In less trendy establishments, 'a coffee' might well come with milk already in it as standard. > > > > The Stibbington Truckstop on the A1 wouldn't serve it any other way. > > They'd probably already look at you a bit funny for not ordering tea. > > Ask for an espresso and they'd call the police.
Imagine what they'd do if you ordered a cappuccino - after 9 am - and with chocolate sprinkled on it......
> Gaslighting? He is presumably trying to say she was lying to the left, not that she was trying to drive the left crazy by making them doubt their own sanity. Why use a buzzword incorrectly when the word "lying" summed it up perfectly.
She's the deepest red in my book so so long as her campaign is failing I don't mind what words are used
Dammit that was probably the closest I came to being relevant.
Does "Blockquote Saviour" count for anything?
Fighting a losing battle on that, I'm afraid. Like, I've complied here but I had to hunt down the 'vanilla' site in order to do so. That took quite a considerable amount of technical nous from yours truly - not sure other posters will be so blessed with it.
I do hope the previous look & feel returns. I preferred it. More formal.
To access the vanilla site you just have to click on someone's name. Then click on discussions to get to a list of threads. I don't like it as the posts are in the reverse order, although I do like the proper quotes.
> @Cyclefree said: > > @Harris_Tweed said: > > > @TOPPING said: > > > In less trendy establishments, 'a coffee' might well come with milk already in it as standard. > > > > > > The Stibbington Truckstop on the A1 wouldn't serve it any other way. > > > > They'd probably already look at you a bit funny for not ordering tea. > > > > Ask for an espresso and they'd call the police. > > Imagine what they'd do if you ordered a cappuccino - after 9 am - and with chocolate sprinkled on it......
> > > Widdecombe is off her trolley if she thinks appealing for more sacrifice (for what end?) is going to have much appeal after ten years of austerity.
>
> >
>
> > >
>
> >
>
> > >
>
> >
>
> > >
>
> >
>
> > > Meanwhile, Farage’s choice of candidate for Peterborough surely makes Labour favourites again? Whilst a millionaire former Tory donor might appeal to Tory leavers, it gives Labour an easy line to put its own leavers off voting for him.
>
> >
>
> > >
>
> >
>
> > > The market went from 11/8 to 4/5 so doesn’t seem so
>
> >
>
> > >
>
> >
>
> > > The market also had Neil Hamilton 2nd in Newport West.
>
> >
>
> >
>
> >
>
> > Exactly. Backing Labour is probably now a value bet.
>
> >
>
> > What is the motivation for voting Labour in Peterborough?
>
> >
>
> > No leavers will
>
> > Neither will any hardcore remainers
>
> > Plenty will be disgusted with the behaviour of the ex Labour MP
>
> > Labour only won in 2017 when they promised to back Brexit and UKIP didn’t stand
>
>
>
> The idea ve t paper at the General Election - but for reasons totally unrelated to Brexit.
>
> Brexit is the political story of the century, discussing it on a politics website is hardly obsession.
>
> Think what you like, but my view is leavers won’t be voting Labour in Peterborough
Not a single Leaver! Do you really believe that? For very many voters Brexit is very far from being ' the political story of the century'. You may be obsessed by it , but others find it highly technical , boring , dreary - and are desperate to discuss other things.
By the way, UKIP stood down in 2017 to help Stewart Jackson the incumbent Tory who was defeated.
I’m not obsessed by it, but it is the political story of the century.
Dammit that was probably the closest I came to being relevant.
Does "Blockquote Saviour" count for anything?
Fighting a losing battle on that, I'm afraid. Like, I've complied here but I had to hunt down the 'vanilla' site in order to do so. That took quite a considerable amount of technical nous from yours truly - not sure other posters will be so blessed with it.
I do hope the previous look & feel returns. I preferred it. More formal.
To access the vanilla site you just have to click on someone's name. Then click on discussions to get to a list of threads. I don't like it as the posts are in the reverse order, although I do like the proper quotes.
Latest comment at the bottom so far more intuitive what are you talking about man?
> Not at all. I remember when Baker took over from DLT on Radio 1 in the mid 1990s. I even remember his godawful Daz adverts. I know his career intimately.
> I'm not aligned to the LibDems by any stretch, but I think they got a raw deal for their time in government. They were only ever going to get a limited amount of airtime for their policies as the minor party (especially where those clashed with Tory ones), but in hindsight helped deliver remarkably stable government and probably put a bit of a brake on austerity.. maybe not much compared to Cameron's own instincts, but by helping to keep the right of the Tory party from cutting harder and faster. Considering the shitshow we've had since with a subsequent minority administration, I think they deserve much credit from the uncommitted voter.
I agree with much of this. It is easy to forget that the alternative for the LDs was in 2010 was to refuse coalition handing Cameron and Austerity a large Majority in an October 2010 election.
The problem was that they made a few big mistakes which had a very big influence on how the 2010 LD voters precieved the party. I winced every time a LD cabinet minister actively supported a clearly tory motivated policy, rather than answering a neutral "that is what the cabinet voted for".
The alternative in 2010 seemed to be political anarchy with no Government in the midst of the Greece crisis. The pressure put on Clegg and Cameron by the Civil Service and others to quickly agree and form a Government was huge (aided by the media).
By going in with the Conservatives, the LDs forfeited a big slab of their support (those who saw the Conservatives as "the enemy"). Had they gone in with Labour, they'd have lost the other slab. Had they refused to support either they'd have been lambasted for political weakness and for being scared of taking responsibility for the big decisions.
As for the "mistakes", apart from tuition fees and the AV referendum which were LD mistakes not Coalition mistakes, the price of stability was voting through measures the Party would have otherwise opposed - the Conservatives had to vote through LD measures which they would otherwise have opposed so it cut both ways.
> @TOPPING said: > Dammit that was probably the closest I came to being relevant. > > Does "Blockquote Saviour" count for anything? > > Fighting a losing battle on that, I'm afraid. Like, I've complied here but I had to hunt down the 'vanilla' site in order to do so. That took quite a considerable amount of technical nous from yours truly - not sure other posters will be so blessed with it. > > I do hope the previous look & feel returns. I preferred it. More formal. > > To access the vanilla site you just have to click on someone's name. Then click on discussions to get to a list of threads. I don't like it as the posts are in the reverse order, although I do like the proper quotes. > > Latest comment at the bottom so far more intuitive what are you talking about man?
The latest comments get added to the top of the pile.
> @SandyRentool said: > > @Cyclefree said: > > > @Harris_Tweed said: > > > > @TOPPING said: > > > > In less trendy establishments, 'a coffee' might well come with milk already in it as standard. > > > > > > > > The Stibbington Truckstop on the A1 wouldn't serve it any other way. > > > > > > They'd probably already look at you a bit funny for not ordering tea. > > > > > > Ask for an espresso and they'd call the police. > > > > Imagine what they'd do if you ordered a cappuccino - after 9 am - and with chocolate sprinkled on it...... > > ...and with soya milk!
> Not at all. I remember when Baker took over from DLT on Radio 1 in the mid 1990s. I even remember his godawful Daz adverts. I know his career intimately.
DLT. The 'Hairy Cornflake'.
And that was not all he was, as it turned out.
Heh, the BBC have indeed employed people with far worse crimes* than Danny Baker !
On the question of "yeah, Danny Baker was an idiot, but he said sorry and did they really have to sack him?"
He'd have been on firmer ground had he not pissed off every BBC manager who'd taken a chance on him over the last decades. It *always* ends with him leaving and calling the person who'd paid his wages for the last X years a 'pin-headed weasel' or similar.
Not that he would, but if Huw Edwards cocked up, he'd be cut a lot more slack because he plays nicely and (whatever Danny thinks) is of far more value to the BBC. Eventually, you're more trouble than you're worth.. especially if you're doing an hour or two a week on a non-FM station with a 9 per cent reach.
> Sorry, like portrait video I'm getting used to the > > > >> !
It's more chatty. It creates the vibe of a group of people chewing the fat about stuff as they simultaneously zip about town doing other things as well.
It's lunch on the go whereas the previous format was more knife and fork and a plate.
It's fizzy tabloid rather than dusty old broadsheet.
> @Cyclefree said: > > @SandyRentool said: > > > @Cyclefree said: > > > > @Harris_Tweed said: > > > > > @TOPPING said: > > > > > In less trendy establishments, 'a coffee' might well come with milk already in it as standard. > > > > > > > > > > The Stibbington Truckstop on the A1 wouldn't serve it any other way. > > > > > > > > They'd probably already look at you a bit funny for not ordering tea. > > > > > > > > Ask for an espresso and they'd call the police. > > > > > > Imagine what they'd do if you ordered a cappuccino - after 9 am - and with chocolate sprinkled on it...... > > > > ...and with soya milk! > > Try that in a bar in Naples......
I have milk in green tea. I'm used to being ridiculed in cafes!
> @eristdoof said: > Yesterday > I haven’t seen a single Leaver on here bring up “the good old days of empire”, it’s always Remainers imputing motives on others to discredit them. In reality no one actually holds those views. > > It’s only Remainers who keep talking about it (negatively) as some kind of folk memory. It’s Remainers who are fighting the battles of the past, still living in a post-war mentality. > > Today https://twitter.com/bbcr4today/status/1126402756993081346
'Indeed the new fly-on-the-wall EU documentary is a revealing portrait of the pompous, sneering, undemocratic bureaucrats 17.4million of us voted to leave: mocking Brexit, our country, even our “war spirit”. That’s right, the war spirit that served us well as we helped to liberate Europe from Nazi tyranny.'
> @SandyRentool said: > > @Cyclefree said: > > > @SandyRentool said: > > > > @Cyclefree said: > > > > > @Harris_Tweed said: > > > > > > @TOPPING said: > > > > > > In less trendy establishments, 'a coffee' might well come with milk already in it as standard. > > > > > > > > > > > > The Stibbington Truckstop on the A1 wouldn't serve it any other way. > > > > > > > > > > They'd probably already look at you a bit funny for not ordering tea. > > > > > > > > > > Ask for an espresso and they'd call the police. > > > > > > > > Imagine what they'd do if you ordered a cappuccino - after 9 am - and with chocolate sprinkled on it...... > > > > > > ...and with soya milk! > > > > Try that in a bar in Naples...... > > I have milk in green tea. I'm used to being ridiculed in cafes!
The bar staff at the Gambrinus Cafe in Naples would simply view you fondly as an eccentric signore inglese..... of which they have had a few over the years.
Should the Tories really be 20/1 to win Peterborough? Especially if there is the prospect of joint remain candidate which could eat into some of Labour's vote? It could mean a relatively low winning margin and a number of parties could be huddled closely together.
> @HenryGManson said: > Should the Tories really be 20/1 to win Peterborough? Especially if there is the prospect of joint remain candidate which could eat into some of Labour's vote? It could mean a relatively low winning margin and a number of parties could be huddled closely together.
> @FrancisUrquhart said: > Re Danny Baker....I think the question is should he have been sacked or some other punishment? > > Again, like I have said before in regards other criticism of people saying / doing offensive things. Is this a one-off, and one where a genuine apology and some time to reflect would be a sufficient punishment, or is this a pattern of behaviour. > > I honestly don't follow Danny Baker very closely so I have no idea if he has been in trouble before over his social media / radio show output. Perhaps he was already on his last warning with the BBC bigwigs? > > In comparison to say Jezza, every week somebody digs up something where again it shows Jezza associating with antisemites / antisemitic tropes.
It seems to me there are two possibilities with Danny Baker - either he is a racist and has managed to cover it up for decades but he decided that it would be fine to tweet something he knew to be racist now in full knowledge of the likely consequences, or he just made a stupid unthinking mistake and is in fact not a racist. I.e. this was either deliberate, or it was accidental.
Surely the latter is far, far more likely, unless anyone can point to any other incidents of racism? I don't know of any
The idea that he tweeted that picture whilst unaware of how it would be perceived might seem hard to believe, but that he was aware and went ahead and did it anyway is surely even more implausible.
> I haven’t seen a single Leaver on here bring up “the good old days of empire”, it’s always Remainers imputing motives on others to discredit them. In reality no one actually holds those views.
>
> It’s only Remainers who keep talking about it (negatively) as some kind of folk memory. It’s Remainers who are fighting the battles of the past, still living in a post-war mentality.
'Indeed the new fly-on-the-wall EU documentary is a revealing portrait of the pompous, sneering, undemocratic bureaucrats 17.4million of us voted to leave: mocking Brexit, our country, even our “war spirit”. That’s right, the war spirit that served us well as we helped to liberate Europe from Nazi tyranny.'
Fascinating you are confusing blitz spirit with longing for empire.
> @JonCisBack said: > > @FrancisUrquhart said: > > Re Danny Baker....I think the question is should he have been sacked or some other punishment? > > > > Again, like I have said before in regards other criticism of people saying / doing offensive things. Is this a one-off, and one where a genuine apology and some time to reflect would be a sufficient punishment, or is this a pattern of behaviour. > > > > I honestly don't follow Danny Baker very closely so I have no idea if he has been in trouble before over his social media / radio show output. Perhaps he was already on his last warning with the BBC bigwigs? > > > > In comparison to say Jezza, every week somebody digs up something where again it shows Jezza associating with antisemites / antisemitic tropes. > > It seems to me there are two possibilities with Danny Baker - either he is a racist and has managed to cover it up for decades but he decided that it would be fine to tweet something he knew to be racist now in full knowledge of the likely consequences, or he just made a stupid unthinking mistake and is in fact not a racist. I.e. this was either deliberate, or it was accidental. > > Surely the latter is far, far more likely, unless anyone can point to any other incidents of racism? I don't know of any > > The idea that he tweeted that picture whilst unaware of how it would be perceived might seem hard to believe, but that he was aware and went ahead and did it anyway is surely even more implausible.
Hanlon's razor..."Never attribute to malice that which is adequately explained by stupidity."
The bar staff at the Gambrinus Cafe in Naples would simply view you fondly as an eccentric signore inglese..... of which they have had a few over the years.
> > Sports bets are fine. Occasionally people wibble about them, but not too much.
>
>
>
> Since there is a lot of posting about politics without betting it seems reasonable that there should be posts about betting without politics. Where sports posts get irritating is when we get a whole stream of posts about some ongoing sports event that has nothing to do with betting at all. Updates on current scores etc. are simply spam since it is reasonable to assume that anyone actually interested is already watching or following the match.
>
> Bah Humbug, if it applies to sport then same should apply to politics.
But this is a politics site, that is the point. There are plenty of fan sites for sport.
also a betting site and most bets are on sports and they may well be betting on them
Having looked up Danny Bakers tweet, it really is astonishing, as is the number of folk unable to see what is racist about it!
There are genuinely colourblind people out there Foxy and I believe Danny Baker is one of them. Huge fucking idiot I accept, but not racist.
His tweet however can be seen as a clarion call to racists who would know exactly how to interpret it. Which is why he was sacked. But the tweet itself was not racist. It "just" emboldened racism.
The analogy with Corbyn is almost too perfect. (Only analogy as I do believe Corbyn is actually racist but it also works if you believe he is not.)
White men just can’t compare mixed race people to monkeys, even if they have no history of racism. (Roy Hodgsons analogy was different in my opinion) I can’t believe Danny Baker was so stupid to do it, did he really think it would go down well?
As I said I believe he is genuinely colourblind.
This is a disgusting post and you should be banned.
I think you’ll find the term “colourblind” is now racist too.
Sad thing is I’m not even joking.
WTF , people actually have colour blindness and it precludes them from many jobs. You are a halfwit and definitely should be tarred , feathered and run out of town for being so stupid.
Having looked up Danny Bakers tweet, it really is astonishing, as is the number of folk unable to see what is racist about it!
There are genuinely colourblind people out there Foxy and I believe Danny Baker is one of them. Huge fucking idiot I accept, but not racist.
His tweet however can be seen as a clarion call to racists who would know exactly how to interpret it. Which is why he was sacked. But the tweet itself was not racist. It "just" emboldened racism.
The analogy with Corbyn is almost too perfect. (Only analogy as I do believe Corbyn is actually racist but it also works if you believe he is not.)
White men just can’t compare mixed race people to monkeys, even if they have no history of racism. (Roy Hodgsons analogy was different in my opinion) I can’t believe Danny Baker was so stupid to do it, did he really think it would go down well?
As I said I believe he is genuinely colourblind.
Being "colourblind" is itself problematic. Unless truly blind, we cannot not know someone is black. Pretending it doesn't matter, to deny them their experience of being black in a historically white society, is not showing appropriate respect for their experience.
To call me a monkey is merely facile, to call one of my black colleagues the same is much more serious indeed.
Looks and sounds like a whole lot of cutting and pasting there, young fella.
> @GarethoftheVale2 said: > I'm surprised Hammond is talking about a leadership contest as there has to be a fair chance he goes when May goes.
Hammond is still a potential caretaker if Theresa May goes quickly. Most runners and riders want a contest but not right now, which is why they've not forced the issue. A caretaker who'd agree to step down in a year or two once Brexit is put to bed one way or the other might be just what the men in grey suits ordered.
Having looked up Danny Bakers tweet, it really is astonishing, as is the number of folk unable to see what is racist about it!
There are genuinely colourblind people out there Foxy and I believe Danny Baker is one of them. Huge fucking idiot I accept, but not racist.
His tweet however can be seen as a clarion call to racists who would know exactly how to interpret it. Which is why he was sacked. But the tweet itself was not racist. It "just" emboldened racism.
The analogy with Corbyn is almost too perfect. (Only analogy as I do believe Corbyn is actually racist but it also works if you believe he is not.)
White men just can’t compare mixed race people to monkeys, even if they have no history of racism. (Roy Hodgsons analogy was different in my opinion) I can’t believe Danny Baker was so stupid to do it, did he really think it would go down well?
As I said I believe he is genuinely colourblind.
This is a disgusting post and you should be banned.
I think you’ll find the term “colourblind” is now racist too.
Sad thing is I’m not even joking.
WTF , people actually have colour blindness and it precludes them from many jobs. You are a halfwit and definitely should be tarred , feathered and run out of town for being so stupid.
> @GarethoftheVale2 said: > I'm surprised Hammond is talking about a leadership contest as there has to be a fair chance he goes when May goes.
I'd say it's a certainty that he goes. But then the chances of a contest within 12 months are extremely high and Hammond is 63 and presumably without much further political ambition - is he really that bothered about the tiny impact one way or another his comments might make?
> I haven’t seen a single Leaver on here bring up “the good old days of empire”, it’s always Remainers imputing motives on others to discredit them. In reality no one actually holds those views.
>
> It’s only Remainers who keep talking about it (negatively) as some kind of folk memory. It’s Remainers who are fighting the battles of the past, still living in a post-war mentality.
'Indeed the new fly-on-the-wall EU documentary is a revealing portrait of the pompous, sneering, undemocratic bureaucrats 17.4million of us voted to leave: mocking Brexit, our country, even our “war spirit”. That’s right, the war spirit that served us well as we helped to liberate Europe from Nazi tyranny.'
Bet the waiting list for PBr's desperate to sign up for Dad's Army is monstrous at the moment.
> I was told recently of a mixed race mother who went to the nursery to collect her child at 'home time' and noticed he was in a corner. > 'What's he doing there?" > "Oh he's been a little monkey!' > Cue complaint, and horror from the nursery staff member who has simply meant that the little chap had been a bit naughty that afternoon.
I was struck by how 'mixed race' was the very determined way in which Meghan Markle was described when it became clear that she was to enter the Royal family.
By contrast, umpteen famous footballers and musicians, for example, are also mixed race in the sense of one black parent and one white, yet are described (quite routinely and non-controversially) as black.
My reading of this FWIW was that we were deemed to be ready for a mixed race princess but not a black one. More than this, the mixed race aspect was promoted as a positive, but precisely because of that promotion it became at the same time very important indeed to draw a distinction (between mixed race and black) that previously had not been particularly important.
Meghan is MIXED RACE - which is brilliant! - which by the way is NOT BLACK, was the message,
So there you go. That was my take. Remarkably perceptive of me? Or disappearing up my own fundament? Not for me to judge.
Having looked up Danny Bakers tweet, it really is astonishing, as is the number of folk unable to see what is racist about it!
There are genuinely colourblind people out there Foxy and I believe Danny Baker is one of them. Huge fucking idiot I accept, but not racist.
His tweet however can be seen as a clarion call to racists who would know exactly how to interpret it. Which is why he was sacked. But the tweet itself was not racist. It "just" emboldened racism.
The analogy with Corbyn is almost too perfect. (Only analogy as I do believe Corbyn is actually racist but it also works if you believe he is not.)
White men just can’t compare mixed race people to monkeys, even if they have no history of racism. (Roy Hodgsons analogy was different in my opinion) I can’t believe Danny Baker was so stupid to do it, did he really think it would go down well?
As I said I believe he is genuinely colourblind.
This is a disgusting post and you should be banned.
I think you’ll find the term “colourblind” is now racist too.
Sad thing is I’m not even joking.
WTF , people actually have colour blindness and it precludes them from many jobs. You are a halfwit and definitely should be tarred , feathered and run out of town for being so stupid.
***Whooosh****
That is what I get for jumping in halfway through the story, I will put my pointy hat on and resume my seat in the corner.
> @geoffw said: > The bar staff at the Gambrinus Cafe in Naples would simply view you fondly as an eccentric signore inglese..... of which they have had a few over the years. > > Elena Ferrante unmasked.
> @kinabalu said: > > @OldKingCole said: > > > I was told recently of a mixed race mother who went to the nursery to collect her child at 'home time' and noticed he was in a corner. > > 'What's he doing there?" > > "Oh he's been a little monkey!' > > Cue complaint, and horror from the nursery staff member who has simply meant that the little chap had been a bit naughty that afternoon. > > I was struck by how 'mixed race' was the very determined way in which Meghan Markle was described when it became clear that she was to enter the Royal family. > > By contrast, umpteen famous footballers and musicians, for example, are also mixed race in the sense of one black parent and one white, yet are described (quite routinely and non-controversially) as black. > > My reading of this FWIW was that we were deemed to be ready for a mixed race princess but not a black one. More than this, the mixed race aspect was promoted as a positive, but precisely because of that promotion it became at the same time very important indeed to draw a distinction (between mixed race and black) that previously had not been particularly important. > > Meghan is MIXED RACE - which is brilliant! - which by the way is NOT BLACK, was the message, > > So there you go. That was my take. Remarkably perceptive of me? Or disappearing up my own fundament? Not for me to judge.
Is the baby mixed enough to be mixed race? Or is he too white?
They used to have helpful guidelines for this sort of thing in South Africa. Fortunately now they just have South Africans. And an election result on its way.
> @isam said: > > @isam said: > > > https://twitter.com/JimMFelton/status/1126477971617980416 > > > > > > > > > > > > > > Scott, do you honestly find Jim Felton funny? > > > > Was it supposed to be funny? > > He is apparently a comedian, although his riposte to me saying on Twitter that he only had one joke was to block me... what rapier wit!
he;s a comdian in the contemporary sense of someone who isnt actually funny
> @HenryGManson said: > Should the Tories really be 20/1 to win Peterborough? Especially if there is the prospect of joint remain candidate which could eat into some of Labour's vote? It could mean a relatively low winning margin and a number of parties could be huddled closely together.
20/1 looks generous. For one thing there is a non-zero possibility that they will reach an agreement with Labour and actually Leave. Which would deflate the BP balloon a bit. I know it is highly unlikely, but it is just about possible. Were that to happen, the Tories would be in with a shout. And yes, the winning party share will be low.
> The bar staff at the Gambrinus Cafe in Naples would simply view you fondly as an eccentric signore inglese..... of which they have had a few over the years.
>
> Elena Ferrante unmasked.
Ssh .... don't tell anyone.....
It seems to be that mixing up the two quoting systems is what causes wrong attributions to quotes.
> @isam said: > > @isam said: > > > .> @isam > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > Widdecombe is off her trolley if she thinks appealing for more sacrifice (for what end?) is going to have much appeal after ten years of austerity. > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > Meanwhile, Farage’s choice of candidate for Peterborough surely makes Labour favourites again? Whilst a millionaire former Tory donor might appeal to Tory leavers, it gives Labour an easy line to put its own leavers off voting for him. > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > The market went from 11/8 to 4/5 so doesn’t seem so > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > The market also had Neil Hamilton 2nd in Newport West. > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > Exactly. Backing Labour is probably now a value bet. > > > > > > > > > > > > > > What is the motivation for voting Labour in Peterborough? > > > > > > > > > > > > > > No leavers will > > > > > > > Neither will any hardcore remainers > > > > > > > Plenty will be disgusted with the behaviour of the ex Labour MP > > > > > > > Labour only won in 2017 when they promised to back Brexit and UKIP didn’t stand > > > > > > > > > > > > The idea ve t paper at the General Election - but for reasons totally unrelated to Brexit. > > > > > > Brexit is the political story of the century, discussing it on a politics website is hardly obsession. > > > > > > Think what you like, but my view is leavers won’t be voting Labour in Peterborough > > > > Not a single Leaver! Do you really believe that? For very many voters Brexit is very far from being ' the political story of the century'. You may be obsessed by it , but others find it highly technical , boring , dreary - and are desperate to discuss other things. > > By the way, UKIP stood down in 2017 to help Stewart Jackson the incumbent Tory who was defeated. > > I’m not obsessed by it, but it is the political story of the century.
That is very much a matter of opinion. Many take the view that the 2008 Financial Crisis and the 2003 Iraq War were far more important.
> @stodge said: > > @Harris_Tweed said: > > > > > I'm not aligned to the LibDems by any stretch, but I think they got a raw deal for their time in government. They were only ever going to get a limited amount of airtime for their policies as the minor party (especially where those clashed with Tory ones), but in hindsight helped deliver remarkably stable government and probably put a bit of a brake on austerity.. maybe not much compared to Cameron's own instincts, but by helping to keep the right of the Tory party from cutting harder and faster. Considering the shitshow we've had since with a subsequent minority administration, I think they deserve much credit from the uncommitted voter. > > > > I agree with much of this. It is easy to forget that the alternative for the LDs was in 2010 was to refuse coalition handing Cameron and Austerity a large Majority in an October 2010 election. > > > > The problem was that they made a few big mistakes which had a very big influence on how the 2010 LD voters precieved the party. I winced every time a LD cabinet minister actively supported a clearly tory motivated policy, rather than answering a neutral "that is what the cabinet voted for". > > The alternative in 2010 seemed to be political anarchy with no Government in the midst of the Greece crisis. The pressure put on Clegg and Cameron by the Civil Service and others to quickly agree and form a Government was huge (aided by the media). > > By going in with the Conservatives, the LDs forfeited a big slab of their support (those who saw the Conservatives as "the enemy"). Had they gone in with Labour, they'd have lost the other slab. Had they refused to support either they'd have been lambasted for political weakness and for being scared of taking responsibility for the big decisions. > > As for the "mistakes", apart from tuition fees and the AV referendum which were LD mistakes not Coalition mistakes, the price of stability was voting through measures the Party would have otherwise opposed - the Conservatives had to vote through LD measures which they would otherwise have opposed so it cut both ways.
The LDs would probably have fared better had a few of them resigned the Whip and sat as Independent LDs on the Opposition benches. The MP for Eastbourne has recently done so in relation to Brexit, and had the likes of Kennedy, Hughes, Sanders, Pugh and a few others done that in 2010 they would have been better placed to survive in 2015.
Comments
> https://twitter.com/acgrayling/status/1126445200337928194
And James Chapman, Andrew Adonis, AC Grayling, and Alistair Campbell are on the other side.
I hate myself and will repost this to CiF as a penance.
Edit: and as for Corbyn you are absolutely on the money also.
> The Corbyn "I didn't know about the mural" thing is a similar example. In his case, there are a string of other issues, which means it was his responsibility to be aware. And that's why I am less forgiving of him.
>
> The thing about Corbyn is he claims to have campaigned against almost all forms of discrimination for decades, so it's quite implausible to believe he genuinely didn't recognise some to the recent occurances. He ought to be highly attuned to such things, but strangely when it comes to his own party his powers wane.
Exactly. The ignorance of convenience.
Again, like I have said before in regards other criticism of people saying / doing offensive things. Is this a one-off, and one where a genuine apology and some time to reflect would be a sufficient punishment, or is this a pattern of behaviour.
I honestly don't follow Danny Baker very closely so I have no idea if he has been in trouble before over his social media / radio show output. Perhaps he was already on his last warning with the BBC bigwigs?
In comparison to say Jezza, every week somebody digs up something where again it shows Jezza associating with antisemites / antisemitic tropes.
https://twitter.com/AsteadWesley/status/1126143993044262912
Ho ho
https://twitter.com/lowetze1/status/1126193666807087105
> > @glw said:
> > The Corbyn "I didn't know about the mural" thing is a similar example. In his case, there are a string of other issues, which means it was his responsibility to be aware. And that's why I am less forgiving of him.
> >
> > The thing about Corbyn is he claims to have campaigned against almost all forms of discrimination for decades, so it's quite implausible to believe he genuinely didn't recognise some to the recent occurances. He ought to be highly attuned to such things, but strangely when it comes to his own party his powers wane.
>
> Exactly. The ignorance of convenience.
I think it's the ignorance of ideology. Racism = power + prejudice. Therefore, individuals or groups you consider powerful cannot be victims of racism.
> While I think people are frequently looking for offence (and finding it where it is deserved...and where it isn't) "colourblindness" is an interesting case.
>
> It is absolutely coming from a position of privilege - you can't be "colourblind" if you are on the discriminated-against side of that equation. So "colourblind" isn't seen as a sensitive position, which should be something more like "awareness but fairness".
>
> And in this case, he wasn't aware, so made a massive blunder. For which he should be called to account and apologize. Which he did. But he probably shouldn't be sacked for it, unless there are a string of other examples.
>
> The Corbyn "I didn't know about the mural" thing is a similar example. In his case, there are a string of other issues, which means it was his responsibility to be aware. And that's why I am less forgiving of him.
>
> To put my woke plaid shirt on for a moment, and to agree with you, as a product of embedded white privilege, Baker was not, following Eduardo Bonilla-Silva, entitled to be colourblind and I was wrong to say being colourblind was ok.
>
> I hate myself and will repost this to CiF as a penance.
>
> Edit: and as for Corbyn you are absolutely on the money also.
Good grief, that's a punishment too far. Have a cup of non-milkified tea and ponder our crimes.
> I'm not aligned to the LibDems by any stretch, but I think they got a raw deal for their time in government. They were only ever going to get a limited amount of airtime for their policies as the minor party (especially where those clashed with Tory ones), but in hindsight helped deliver remarkably stable government and probably put a bit of a brake on austerity.. maybe not much compared to Cameron's own instincts, but by helping to keep the right of the Tory party from cutting harder and faster. Considering the shitshow we've had since with a subsequent minority administration, I think they deserve much credit from the uncommitted voter.
I agree with much of this. It is easy to forget that the alternative for the LDs was in 2010 was to refuse coalition handing Cameron and Austerity a large Majority in an October 2010 election.
The problem was that they made a few big mistakes which had a very big influence on how the 2010 LD voters precieved the party. I winced every time a LD cabinet minister actively supported a clearly tory motivated policy, rather than answering a neutral "that is what the cabinet voted for".
> Re Danny Baker....I think the question is should he have been sacked or some other punishment?
>
> Again, like I have said before in regards other criticism of people saying / doing offensive things. Is this a one-off, and one where a genuine apology and some time to reflect would be a sufficient punishment, or is this a pattern of behaviour.
>
> I honestly don't follow Danny Baker very closely so I have no idea if he has been in trouble before over his social media / radio show output. Perhaps he was already on his last warning with the BBC bigwigs?
>
> In comparison to say Jezza, every week somebody digs up something where again it shows Jezza associating with antisemites / antisemitic tropes.
I listened to his show last Saturday. Rambling and didn't make much sense, but harmless enough and passed the time.
Think what you like, but my view is leavers won’t be voting Labour in Peterborough
> I never much liked Danny Baker's radio show - too much inane talking over the music - so I'm glad he's been sacked.
He was on 5 live. There's no music to talk over....................................
> > @mwadams said:
> > > @glw said:
> > > The Corbyn "I didn't know about the mural" thing is a similar example. In his case, there are a string of other issues, which means it was his responsibility to be aware. And that's why I am less forgiving of him.
> > >
> > > The thing about Corbyn is he claims to have campaigned against almost all forms of discrimination for decades, so it's quite implausible to believe he genuinely didn't recognise some to the recent occurances. He ought to be highly attuned to such things, but strangely when it comes to his own party his powers wane.
> >
> > Exactly. The ignorance of convenience.
>
> I think it's the ignorance of ideology. Racism = power + prejudice. Therefore, individuals or groups you consider powerful cannot be victims of racism.
And, perhaps, by ideological assertion. "We are not racist. Therefore nothing we do is racist, even if we would judge it to be so, when done by others."
> I never much liked Danny Baker's radio show - too much inane talking over the music - so I'm glad he's been sacked.
I think you might be thinking of someone else? Danny Baker had a show on Radio 5 - no music involved.
This is a great shame, in my opinion - Danny Baker's show was one of the best things on the radio - Danny Baker is that rare interviewer: one who is guided by what makes an interesting and/or amusing conversation, rather than one seeing his interviewee as an adversary.
> .> @isam
> > >
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> >
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> > >
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> >
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> > > Widdecombe is off her trolley if she thinks appealing for more sacrifice (for what end?) is going to have much appeal after ten years of austerity.
>
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> > >
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> > >
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> > >
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> >
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> > > Meanwhile, Farage’s choice of candidate for Peterborough surely makes Labour favourites again? Whilst a millionaire former Tory donor might appeal to Tory leavers, it gives Labour an easy line to put its own leavers off voting for him.
>
> >
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> > >
>
> >
>
> > > The market went from 11/8 to 4/5 so doesn’t seem so
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> > >
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> > > The market also had Neil Hamilton 2nd in Newport West.
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> >
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> > Exactly. Backing Labour is probably now a value bet.
>
> >
>
> > What is the motivation for voting Labour in Peterborough?
>
> >
>
> > No leavers will
>
> > Neither will any hardcore remainers
>
> > Plenty will be disgusted with the behaviour of the ex Labour MP
>
> > Labour only won in 2017 when they promised to back Brexit and UKIP didn’t stand
>
>
>
> The idea that 'no leaver' will vote Labour in Peterborough is just daft. You are assuming that every voter who supported Leave is as obsessed with the issue as you appear to be. It would not even be true of some voters who were firm Leave voters in 2016 - simply because other issues will override it. That is even more likely to be the case for those who remained genuinely undecided until the last moment before coming off the fence on a 51- 49 basis. I voted Leave - but will vote Labour on 23rd May. I will spoil my ballot paper at the General Election - but for reasons totally unrelated to Brexit.
>
> Brexit is the political story of the century, discussing it on a politics website is hardly obsession.
>
> Think what you like, but my view is leavers won’t be voting Labour in Peterborough
Not a single Leaver! Do you really believe that? For very many voters Brexit is very far from being ' the political story of the century'. You may be obsessed by it , but others find it highly technical , boring , dreary - and are desperate to discuss other things.
By the way, UKIP stood down in 2017 to help Stewart Jackson the incumbent Tory who was defeated.
> > @Stark_Dawning said:
> > I never much liked Danny Baker's radio show - too much inane talking over the music - so I'm glad he's been sacked.
>
> I think you might be thinking of someone else? Danny Baker had a show on Radio 5 - no music involved.
>
> This is a great shame, in my opinion - Danny Baker's show was one of the best things on the radio - Danny Baker is that rare interviewer: one who is guided by what makes an interesting and/or amusing conversation, rather than one seeing his interviewee as an adversary.
I would be shocked if he isn't picked up by another station.
His reaction to the sacking is perhaps similarly ill-considered (or unconsidered).
He does have form in clashing with the suits:
https://web.archive.org/web/20110123065233/http://www.independent.co.uk/news/people/profiles/danny-baker-theres-this-idea-that-i-talk-too-much-657252.html
All a bit sad, as I genuinely enjoyed his Saturday morning R5 gig, which was a masterpiece of trivia and whimsy - and something which in virtually any other hands would be unlistenable.
> Have any PBers had their postal vote ballot papers delivered?
I finally got it this morning. And have voted.
I remember one programme he had the woman on who was the singer on Great Gig in the Sky on Dark Side of the Moon, Clare Torry. Apparently as she told it she was just passing the studio while they were recording the track and they grabbed her and asked her to do her thing. She was very sweet.
Although I see from google that she then sued them for co-composition.
Anyway, back to Brexit...
> > @dr_spyn said:
> > Have any PBers had their postal vote ballot papers delivered?
>
> I finally got it this morning. And have voted.
>
>
For UKIP?
https://www.bbc.com/news/entertainment-arts-48212693
To call me a monkey is merely facile, to call one of my black colleagues the same is much more serious indeed.
> > @Cyclefree said:
> > > @dr_spyn said:
> > > Have any PBers had their postal vote ballot papers delivered?
> >
> > I finally got it this morning. And have voted.
> >
> >
>
> For UKIP?
Now, now...... you're trolling me.
> Campaign "reset"
>
> https://twitter.com/AsteadWesley/status/1126143993044262912
>
> Ho ho
>
> https://twitter.com/lowetze1/status/1126193666807087105
I know somebody who's going off to intern for the Harris campaign. Privately thinks she has no chance.
He should have gone with Sanders: https://www.rollcall.com/news/campaigns/bernie-2020-becomes-first-unionized-presidential-campaign-history
> I am not sure his response will do him a lot of favours,
>
> https://www.bbc.com/news/entertainment-arts-48212693
A couple of years in the wilderness followed by, oh hold on he's already been in the jungle
https://www.spiked-online.com/2019/05/09/the-destruction-of-danny-baker/
> In this this tumultuous and unpredictable world one thing's for certain: Brendan O'Neil will write an article lambasting the sacking of Danny Baker.
> @Stark_Dawning said:
> Wow. Brendan is appalled.
>
> https://www.spiked-online.com/2019/05/09/the-destruction-of-danny-baker/
NostraStarkus !
> In less trendy establishments, 'a coffee' might well come with milk already in it as standard.
>
> The Stibbington Truckstop on the A1 wouldn't serve it any other way.
They'd probably already look at you a bit funny for not ordering tea.
Ask for an espresso and they'd call the police.
I do hope the previous look & feel returns. I preferred it. More formal.
> Having looked up Danny Bakers tweet, it really is astonishing, as is the number of folk unable to see what is racist about it!
>
> There are genuinely colourblind people out there Foxy and I believe Danny Baker is one of them. Huge fucking idiot I accept, but not racist.
>
> His tweet however can be seen as a clarion call to racists who would know exactly how to interpret it. Which is why he was sacked. But the tweet itself was not racist. It "just" emboldened racism.
>
> The analogy with Corbyn is almost too perfect. (Only analogy as I do believe Corbyn is actually racist but it also works if you believe he is not.)
>
> White men just can’t compare mixed race people to monkeys, even if they have no history of racism. (Roy Hodgsons analogy was different in my opinion) I can’t believe Danny Baker was so stupid to do it, did he really think it would go down well?
>
> As I said I believe he is genuinely colourblind.
>
> Being "colourblind" is itself problematic. Unless truly blind, we cannot not know someone is black. Pretending it doesn't matter, to deny them their experience of being black in a historically white society, is not showing appropriate respect for their experience.
>
> To call me a monkey is merely facile, to call one of my black colleagues the same is much more serious indeed.
I was told recently of a mixed race mother who went to the nursery to collect her child at 'home time' and noticed he was in a corner.
'What's he doing there?"
"Oh he's been a little monkey!'
Cue complaint, and horror from the nursery staff member who has simply meant that the little chap had been a bit naughty that afternoon.
>> !
> > @TOPPING said:
> > In less trendy establishments, 'a coffee' might well come with milk already in it as standard.
> >
> > The Stibbington Truckstop on the A1 wouldn't serve it any other way.
>
> They'd probably already look at you a bit funny for not ordering tea.
>
> Ask for an espresso and they'd call the police.
Imagine what they'd do if you ordered a cappuccino - after 9 am - and with chocolate sprinkled on it......
> Campaign "reset"
>
>
>
> https://twitter.com/AsteadWesley/status/1126143993044262912
>
> Ho ho
>
>
>
> https://twitter.com/lowetze1/status/1126193666807087105
>
> Gaslighting? He is presumably trying to say she was lying to the left, not that she was trying to drive the left crazy by making them doubt their own sanity. Why use a buzzword incorrectly when the word "lying" summed it up perfectly.
She's the deepest red in my book so so long as her campaign is failing I don't mind what words are used
> > @Harris_Tweed said:
> > > @TOPPING said:
> > > In less trendy establishments, 'a coffee' might well come with milk already in it as standard.
> > >
> > > The Stibbington Truckstop on the A1 wouldn't serve it any other way.
> >
> > They'd probably already look at you a bit funny for not ordering tea.
> >
> > Ask for an espresso and they'd call the police.
>
> Imagine what they'd do if you ordered a cappuccino - after 9 am - and with chocolate sprinkled on it......
...and with soya milk!
> Not at all. I remember when Baker took over from DLT on Radio 1 in the mid 1990s. I even remember his godawful Daz adverts. I know his career intimately.
DLT. The 'Hairy Cornflake'.
And that was not all he was, as it turned out.
By going in with the Conservatives, the LDs forfeited a big slab of their support (those who saw the Conservatives as "the enemy"). Had they gone in with Labour, they'd have lost the other slab. Had they refused to support either they'd have been lambasted for political weakness and for being scared of taking responsibility for the big decisions.
As for the "mistakes", apart from tuition fees and the AV referendum which were LD mistakes not Coalition mistakes, the price of stability was voting through measures the Party would have otherwise opposed - the Conservatives had to vote through LD measures which they would otherwise have opposed so it cut both ways.
> Dammit that was probably the closest I came to being relevant.
>
> Does "Blockquote Saviour" count for anything?
>
> Fighting a losing battle on that, I'm afraid. Like, I've complied here but I had to hunt down the 'vanilla' site in order to do so. That took quite a considerable amount of technical nous from yours truly - not sure other posters will be so blessed with it.
>
> I do hope the previous look & feel returns. I preferred it. More formal.
>
> To access the vanilla site you just have to click on someone's name. Then click on discussions to get to a list of threads. I don't like it as the posts are in the reverse order, although I do like the proper quotes.
>
> Latest comment at the bottom so far more intuitive what are you talking about man?
The latest comments get added to the top of the pile.
> > @Cyclefree said:
> > > @Harris_Tweed said:
> > > > @TOPPING said:
> > > > In less trendy establishments, 'a coffee' might well come with milk already in it as standard.
> > > >
> > > > The Stibbington Truckstop on the A1 wouldn't serve it any other way.
> > >
> > > They'd probably already look at you a bit funny for not ordering tea.
> > >
> > > Ask for an espresso and they'd call the police.
> >
> > Imagine what they'd do if you ordered a cappuccino - after 9 am - and with chocolate sprinkled on it......
>
> ...and with soya milk!
Try that in a bar in Naples......
* In the court of public opinion
He'd have been on firmer ground had he not pissed off every BBC manager who'd taken a chance on him over the last decades. It *always* ends with him leaving and calling the person who'd paid his wages for the last X years a 'pin-headed weasel' or similar.
Not that he would, but if Huw Edwards cocked up, he'd be cut a lot more slack because he plays nicely and (whatever Danny thinks) is of far more value to the BBC. Eventually, you're more trouble than you're worth.. especially if you're doing an hour or two a week on a non-FM station with a 9 per cent reach.
https://www.theguardian.com/media/2012/nov/01/axed-danny-baker-bbc-rant
> https://twitter.com/JimMFelton/status/1126477971617980416
>
>
>
> Scott, do you honestly find Jim Felton funny?
Was it supposed to be funny?
> Sorry, like portrait video I'm getting used to the > >
> >> !
It's more chatty. It creates the vibe of a group of people chewing the fat about stuff as they simultaneously zip about town doing other things as well.
It's lunch on the go whereas the previous format was more knife and fork and a plate.
It's fizzy tabloid rather than dusty old broadsheet.
It's ... oh do stop it for heaven's sake.
> > @SandyRentool said:
> > > @Cyclefree said:
> > > > @Harris_Tweed said:
> > > > > @TOPPING said:
> > > > > In less trendy establishments, 'a coffee' might well come with milk already in it as standard.
> > > > >
> > > > > The Stibbington Truckstop on the A1 wouldn't serve it any other way.
> > > >
> > > > They'd probably already look at you a bit funny for not ordering tea.
> > > >
> > > > Ask for an espresso and they'd call the police.
> > >
> > > Imagine what they'd do if you ordered a cappuccino - after 9 am - and with chocolate sprinkled on it......
> >
> > ...and with soya milk!
>
> Try that in a bar in Naples......
I have milk in green tea. I'm used to being ridiculed in cafes!
> Yesterday
> I haven’t seen a single Leaver on here bring up “the good old days of empire”, it’s always Remainers imputing motives on others to discredit them. In reality no one actually holds those views.
>
> It’s only Remainers who keep talking about it (negatively) as some kind of folk memory. It’s Remainers who are fighting the battles of the past, still living in a post-war mentality.
>
> Today https://twitter.com/bbcr4today/status/1126402756993081346
Last night.
https://twitter.com/AlexTaylorNews/status/1126038415919788032
'Indeed the new fly-on-the-wall EU documentary is a revealing portrait of the pompous, sneering, undemocratic bureaucrats 17.4million of us voted to leave: mocking Brexit, our country, even our “war spirit”. That’s right, the war spirit that served us well as we helped to liberate Europe from Nazi tyranny.'
includes one of Verhofstadt’s staffers celebrating: “We finally turned them into a colony! And that was our plan from the first moment.”
https://order-order.com/2019/05/09/verhofstadt-olly-robbins-asked-belgian-citizenship/
> > @Cyclefree said:
> > > @SandyRentool said:
> > > > @Cyclefree said:
> > > > > @Harris_Tweed said:
> > > > > > @TOPPING said:
> > > > > > In less trendy establishments, 'a coffee' might well come with milk already in it as standard.
> > > > > >
> > > > > > The Stibbington Truckstop on the A1 wouldn't serve it any other way.
> > > > >
> > > > > They'd probably already look at you a bit funny for not ordering tea.
> > > > >
> > > > > Ask for an espresso and they'd call the police.
> > > >
> > > > Imagine what they'd do if you ordered a cappuccino - after 9 am - and with chocolate sprinkled on it......
> > >
> > > ...and with soya milk!
> >
> > Try that in a bar in Naples......
>
> I have milk in green tea. I'm used to being ridiculed in cafes!
The bar staff at the Gambrinus Cafe in Naples would simply view you fondly as an eccentric signore inglese..... of which they have had a few over the years.
> Should the Tories really be 20/1 to win Peterborough? Especially if there is the prospect of joint remain candidate which could eat into some of Labour's vote? It could mean a relatively low winning margin and a number of parties could be huddled closely together.
That's with Ladbrokes.
> Re Danny Baker....I think the question is should he have been sacked or some other punishment?
>
> Again, like I have said before in regards other criticism of people saying / doing offensive things. Is this a one-off, and one where a genuine apology and some time to reflect would be a sufficient punishment, or is this a pattern of behaviour.
>
> I honestly don't follow Danny Baker very closely so I have no idea if he has been in trouble before over his social media / radio show output. Perhaps he was already on his last warning with the BBC bigwigs?
>
> In comparison to say Jezza, every week somebody digs up something where again it shows Jezza associating with antisemites / antisemitic tropes.
It seems to me there are two possibilities with Danny Baker - either he is a racist and has managed to cover it up for decades but he decided that it would be fine to tweet something he knew to be racist now in full knowledge of the likely consequences, or he just made a stupid unthinking mistake and is in fact not a racist. I.e. this was either deliberate, or it was accidental.
Surely the latter is far, far more likely, unless anyone can point to any other incidents of racism? I don't know of any
The idea that he tweeted that picture whilst unaware of how it would be perceived might seem hard to believe, but that he was aware and went ahead and did it anyway is surely even more implausible.
"Brexit latest news: Philip Hammond says Tory leadership contest must conclude 'as quickly as possible' as pressure mounts on Theresa May"
https://www.telegraph.co.uk/politics/2019/05/09/brexit-latest-newstories-braced-sixth-placed-finish-european/
Would you have preferred the Nazis won?
> > @FrancisUrquhart said:
> > Re Danny Baker....I think the question is should he have been sacked or some other punishment?
> >
> > Again, like I have said before in regards other criticism of people saying / doing offensive things. Is this a one-off, and one where a genuine apology and some time to reflect would be a sufficient punishment, or is this a pattern of behaviour.
> >
> > I honestly don't follow Danny Baker very closely so I have no idea if he has been in trouble before over his social media / radio show output. Perhaps he was already on his last warning with the BBC bigwigs?
> >
> > In comparison to say Jezza, every week somebody digs up something where again it shows Jezza associating with antisemites / antisemitic tropes.
>
> It seems to me there are two possibilities with Danny Baker - either he is a racist and has managed to cover it up for decades but he decided that it would be fine to tweet something he knew to be racist now in full knowledge of the likely consequences, or he just made a stupid unthinking mistake and is in fact not a racist. I.e. this was either deliberate, or it was accidental.
>
> Surely the latter is far, far more likely, unless anyone can point to any other incidents of racism? I don't know of any
>
> The idea that he tweeted that picture whilst unaware of how it would be perceived might seem hard to believe, but that he was aware and went ahead and did it anyway is surely even more implausible.
Hanlon's razor..."Never attribute to malice that which is adequately explained by stupidity."
> Farage has his PPB sorted....
>
> includes one of Verhofstadt’s staffers celebrating: “We finally turned them into a colony! And that was our plan from the first moment.”
>
> https://order-order.com/2019/05/09/verhofstadt-olly-robbins-asked-belgian-citizenship/
More disturbing is Robbins' apparent lack of loyalty.
> I'm surprised Hammond is talking about a leadership contest as there has to be a fair chance he goes when May goes.
Hammond is still a potential caretaker if Theresa May goes quickly. Most runners and riders want a contest but not right now, which is why they've not forced the issue. A caretaker who'd agree to step down in a year or two once Brexit is put to bed one way or the other might be just what the men in grey suits ordered.
> I'm surprised Hammond is talking about a leadership contest as there has to be a fair chance he goes when May goes.
I'd say it's a certainty that he goes. But then the chances of a contest within 12 months are extremely high and Hammond is 63 and presumably without much further political ambition - is he really that bothered about the tiny impact one way or another his comments might make?
> I was told recently of a mixed race mother who went to the nursery to collect her child at 'home time' and noticed he was in a corner.
> 'What's he doing there?"
> "Oh he's been a little monkey!'
> Cue complaint, and horror from the nursery staff member who has simply meant that the little chap had been a bit naughty that afternoon.
I was struck by how 'mixed race' was the very determined way in which Meghan Markle was described when it became clear that she was to enter the Royal family.
By contrast, umpteen famous footballers and musicians, for example, are also mixed race in the sense of one black parent and one white, yet are described (quite routinely and non-controversially) as black.
My reading of this FWIW was that we were deemed to be ready for a mixed race princess but not a black one. More than this, the mixed race aspect was promoted as a positive, but precisely because of that promotion it became at the same time very important indeed to draw a distinction (between mixed race and black) that previously had not been particularly important.
Meghan is MIXED RACE - which is brilliant! - which by the way is NOT BLACK, was the message,
So there you go. That was my take. Remarkably perceptive of me? Or disappearing up my own fundament? Not for me to judge.
> Fascinating you are confusing blitz spirit with longing for empire.
>
> Would you have preferred the Nazis won?
Of course not.
Thank goodness Britain still had an imperialist pm, a king emperor and an empire to help us 'to liberate Europe from Nazi tyranny'.
> The bar staff at the Gambrinus Cafe in Naples would simply view you fondly as an eccentric signore inglese..... of which they have had a few over the years.
>
> Elena Ferrante unmasked.
Ssh .... don't tell anyone.....
> > @OldKingCole said:
>
> > I was told recently of a mixed race mother who went to the nursery to collect her child at 'home time' and noticed he was in a corner.
> > 'What's he doing there?"
> > "Oh he's been a little monkey!'
> > Cue complaint, and horror from the nursery staff member who has simply meant that the little chap had been a bit naughty that afternoon.
>
> I was struck by how 'mixed race' was the very determined way in which Meghan Markle was described when it became clear that she was to enter the Royal family.
>
> By contrast, umpteen famous footballers and musicians, for example, are also mixed race in the sense of one black parent and one white, yet are described (quite routinely and non-controversially) as black.
>
> My reading of this FWIW was that we were deemed to be ready for a mixed race princess but not a black one. More than this, the mixed race aspect was promoted as a positive, but precisely because of that promotion it became at the same time very important indeed to draw a distinction (between mixed race and black) that previously had not been particularly important.
>
> Meghan is MIXED RACE - which is brilliant! - which by the way is NOT BLACK, was the message,
>
> So there you go. That was my take. Remarkably perceptive of me? Or disappearing up my own fundament? Not for me to judge.
Is the baby mixed enough to be mixed race? Or is he too white?
They used to have helpful guidelines for this sort of thing in South Africa. Fortunately now they just have South Africans. And an election result on its way.
> > @isam said:
>
> > https://twitter.com/JimMFelton/status/1126477971617980416
>
>
>
> >
>
> >
>
> >
>
> > Scott, do you honestly find Jim Felton funny?
>
>
>
> Was it supposed to be funny?
>
> He is apparently a comedian, although his riposte to me saying on Twitter that he only had one joke was to block me... what rapier wit!
he;s a comdian in the contemporary sense of someone who isnt actually funny
https://twitter.com/fidelmacook/status/1126497802232590337
> Should the Tories really be 20/1 to win Peterborough? Especially if there is the prospect of joint remain candidate which could eat into some of Labour's vote? It could mean a relatively low winning margin and a number of parties could be huddled closely together.
20/1 looks generous. For one thing there is a non-zero possibility that they will reach an agreement with Labour and actually Leave. Which would deflate the BP balloon a bit.
I know it is highly unlikely, but it is just about possible.
Were that to happen, the Tories would be in with a shout.
And yes, the winning party share will be low.
https://www.independent.ie/irish-news/news/i-was-caught-completely-unaware-man-travelling-on-bus-from-belfast-to-dublin-says-he-was-asked-for-his-passport-on-the-border-38094805.html
> The DWP really are a bunch of c*nts.
>
> https://twitter.com/fidelmacook/status/1126497802232590337
>
>
Appalling, you would have thought there would be safeguards against this. Let's hope someone gets the sack for this....
> > @isam said:
>
> > .> @isam
>
> > > >
>
> >
>
> > >
>
> >
>
> > > >
>
> >
>
> > >
>
> >
>
> > > > Widdecombe is off her trolley if she thinks appealing for more sacrifice (for what end?) is going to have much appeal after ten years of austerity.
>
> >
>
> > >
>
> >
>
> > > >
>
> >
>
> > >
>
> >
>
> > > >
>
> >
>
> > >
>
> >
>
> > > >
>
> >
>
> > >
>
> >
>
> > > > Meanwhile, Farage’s choice of candidate for Peterborough surely makes Labour favourites again? Whilst a millionaire former Tory donor might appeal to Tory leavers, it gives Labour an easy line to put its own leavers off voting for him.
>
> >
>
> > >
>
> >
>
> > > >
>
> >
>
> > >
>
> >
>
> > > > The market went from 11/8 to 4/5 so doesn’t seem so
>
> >
>
> > >
>
> >
>
> > > >
>
> >
>
> > >
>
> >
>
> > > > The market also had Neil Hamilton 2nd in Newport West.
>
> >
>
> > >
>
> >
>
> > >
>
> >
>
> > >
>
> >
>
> > > Exactly. Backing Labour is probably now a value bet.
>
> >
>
> > >
>
> >
>
> > > What is the motivation for voting Labour in Peterborough?
>
> >
>
> > >
>
> >
>
> > > No leavers will
>
> >
>
> > > Neither will any hardcore remainers
>
> >
>
> > > Plenty will be disgusted with the behaviour of the ex Labour MP
>
> >
>
> > > Labour only won in 2017 when they promised to back Brexit and UKIP didn’t stand
>
> >
>
> >
>
> >
>
> > The idea ve t paper at the General Election - but for reasons totally unrelated to Brexit.
>
> >
>
> > Brexit is the political story of the century, discussing it on a politics website is hardly obsession.
>
> >
>
> > Think what you like, but my view is leavers won’t be voting Labour in Peterborough
>
>
>
> Not a single Leaver! Do you really believe that? For very many voters Brexit is very far from being ' the political story of the century'. You may be obsessed by it , but others find it highly technical , boring , dreary - and are desperate to discuss other things.
>
> By the way, UKIP stood down in 2017 to help Stewart Jackson the incumbent Tory who was defeated.
>
> I’m not obsessed by it, but it is the political story of the century.
That is very much a matter of opinion. Many take the view that the 2008 Financial Crisis and the 2003 Iraq War were far more important.
> https://twitter.com/tnewtondunn/status/1126494339381760001
I wonder how robust that is - in particular it predicts a Green wipe-out under either scenario. Will cheer the Lib Dems up, not that they need it after last week.
> > @Harris_Tweed said:
>
>
>
> > I'm not aligned to the LibDems by any stretch, but I think they got a raw deal for their time in government. They were only ever going to get a limited amount of airtime for their policies as the minor party (especially where those clashed with Tory ones), but in hindsight helped deliver remarkably stable government and probably put a bit of a brake on austerity.. maybe not much compared to Cameron's own instincts, but by helping to keep the right of the Tory party from cutting harder and faster. Considering the shitshow we've had since with a subsequent minority administration, I think they deserve much credit from the uncommitted voter.
>
>
>
> I agree with much of this. It is easy to forget that the alternative for the LDs was in 2010 was to refuse coalition handing Cameron and Austerity a large Majority in an October 2010 election.
>
>
>
> The problem was that they made a few big mistakes which had a very big influence on how the 2010 LD voters precieved the party. I winced every time a LD cabinet minister actively supported a clearly tory motivated policy, rather than answering a neutral "that is what the cabinet voted for".
>
> The alternative in 2010 seemed to be political anarchy with no Government in the midst of the Greece crisis. The pressure put on Clegg and Cameron by the Civil Service and others to quickly agree and form a Government was huge (aided by the media).
>
> By going in with the Conservatives, the LDs forfeited a big slab of their support (those who saw the Conservatives as "the enemy"). Had they gone in with Labour, they'd have lost the other slab. Had they refused to support either they'd have been lambasted for political weakness and for being scared of taking responsibility for the big decisions.
>
> As for the "mistakes", apart from tuition fees and the AV referendum which were LD mistakes not Coalition mistakes, the price of stability was voting through measures the Party would have otherwise opposed - the Conservatives had to vote through LD measures which they would otherwise have opposed so it cut both ways.
The LDs would probably have fared better had a few of them resigned the Whip and sat as Independent LDs on the Opposition benches. The MP for Eastbourne has recently done so in relation to Brexit, and had the likes of Kennedy, Hughes, Sanders, Pugh and a few others done that in 2010 they would have been better placed to survive in 2015.
> https://twitter.com/tnewtondunn/status/1126494339381760001
However, as has been determined earlier, it is a load of bollocks.
https://www.scotsman.com/news-2-15012/mi5-file-links-former-snp-leader-to-nazi-plan-1-1103305
In fact the all the celtic nationalists were disgustingly close to them.
https://www.irishtimes.com/culture/books/ireland-and-the-nazis-a-troubled-history-1.3076579
But yeah, imperialist UK government so bad by comparison...
> > @brokenwheel said:
>
> > Fascinating you are confusing blitz spirit with longing for empire.
>
> >
>
> > Would you have preferred the Nazis won?
>
>
>
> Of course not.
>
> Thank goodness Britain still had an imperialist pm, a king emperor and an empire to help us 'to liberate Europe from Nazi tyranny'.
>
> Are you sure? As it was Scottish Nationalists who supported Hitler.
>
> https://www.scotsman.com/news-2-15012/mi5-file-links-former-snp-leader-to-nazi-plan-1-1103305
>
> In fact the all the celtic nationalists were disgustingly close to them.
>
> https://www.irishtimes.com/culture/books/ireland-and-the-nazis-a-troubled-history-1.3076579
>
> But yeah, imperialist UK government so bad by comparison...
You're lumberingly predictable if nothing else.
Still, at least you're now open about your attachment to empire.
See early discussion. Two of the Green seats they propose to be dropped in this piece of tactical genius have been Green since PR in 1999.
Madness.
Or a rather flimsy LD plot.
Truth hurts doesn’t it? And I have plenty of personal reasons to dislike Nazi sympathisers.
I don’t have any attachment to empire, for a start I’m not that old, I’m just pointing out your hypocrisy.