> @CarlottaVance said: > > @CarlottaVance said: > > > > @glw said: > > > > > > > Never thought about Brexit's arrow pointing to the box. Absolubte genius. > > > > > > > > > > > > > > Yes it's a lot cleverer than I had realised. That complaint might have some merit. > > > > > > > > > > > > I've missed the start of this. What is the issue? > > > > > > The Brexit Party logo is a circle with a bold arrow pointing to the right, to the exit, or to where people vote on a ballot paper.... > > > > Thanks. Is that controversial? > > A Psychologist (#FBPE) has complained to the Electoral Commission that it is subliminally directing people to where to vote. > > https://twitter.com/RichardBentall/status/1126220171922870272 > > > > Its fair to say the responses to his tweet aren't entirely sympathetic.....
> @kyf_100 said: > > @Mysticrose said: > > > @brokenwheel said: > > > > @Scott_P said: > > > > https://twitter.com/dhothersall/status/1126409263998435328 > > > > > > > > > > > > Is anyone outraged by "bollocks"? Do they also find "bum" and "knickers" unacceptable? This seems to be making an unsustainable claim to edginess, as if it said "F-- May, f-- Rees Mogg and above all f-- that utter c-- Farage." > > > > > > For me it just seems immature. I guess that’s not necessarily a bad thing if you are targeting younger voters, but it’s a risky strategy. > > > > It's bloody great publicity. > > > > And no one, repeat no one, gives a shit about the word 'bollocks.' > > > > Apart from OfCom. Obvs. > > The real outrage here is the Lib Dems still using the word "democrat" in their name.
Using that analogy after a GE the other parties should just not bother turning up at the Commons . Why bother opposing , the people have spoken ! People are allowed to disagree . The so called Leavers for more sovereignty really just want a dictatorship.
Miss Vance, there probably will be a slight effect, but it won't be huge.
Some cunning symbols include the FedEx arrow and the A-Z smiley face for Amazon. It's nothing new. Most watches are advertised with the hands at 10 and 2 so they appear like a smile rather than a frown.
But it's hard to imagine pro-EU types will suddenly be brainwashed into backing Farage because of an arrow.
> @Pulpstar said: > > @CarlottaVance said: > > > @CarlottaVance said: > > > > > > @glw said: > > > > > > > > > > > Never thought about Brexit's arrow pointing to the box. Absolubte genius. > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > Yes it's a lot cleverer than I had realised. That complaint might have some merit. > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > I've missed the start of this. What is the issue? > > > > > > > > > > The Brexit Party logo is a circle with a bold arrow pointing to the right, to the exit, or to where people vote on a ballot paper.... > > > > > > > > Thanks. Is that controversial? > > > > A Psychologist (#FBPE) has complained to the Electoral Commission that it is subliminally directing people to where to vote. > > > > https://twitter.com/RichardBentall/status/1126220171922870272 > > > > > > > > Its fair to say the responses to his tweet aren't entirely sympathetic..... > > Smart choice of logo.
> @Pulpstar said: > > @Ishmael_Z said: > > I think George Bush I said that he said "in deep doo doo" because you can't say "shit" on prime time tv. > > What is socially acceptable changes over time.
Indeed. It seems bizarre that there was a time when you couldn't say 'bloody' on TV but you could use the N word.
> @Ishmael_Z said: > ....McVey Leadsom Stewart. > > > > A party of all the talents. I've got stomache cramps > > We can write off McVey as she appears to be childless.
I don't think we can, May is also childless and won the last contest. Unless you're sticking your own prejudices into an apparent betting post ?
> @nico67 said: > Cluless Corbyn still pushing his we are the party to unite the country guff . And to say the country isn’t split across Remain and Leave , really what planet is he on . > > All Remainers need to ditch Labour , get behind the Lib Dems .
Not many of them will want to support the Tories' Little Helpers!
> @Ishmael_Z said: > > @Ishmael_Z said: > > > ....McVey Leadsom Stewart. > > > > > > > > > > > > A party of all the talents. I've got stomache cramps > > > > > > We can write off McVey as she appears to be childless. > > > > I don't think we can, May is also childless and won the last contest. Unless you're sticking your own prejudices into an apparent betting post ? > > Sorry, tedious joke at the expense of Leadsom. I will fire myself pronto.
> @justin124 said: > > @nico67 said: > > Cluless Corbyn still pushing his we are the party to unite the country guff . And to say the country isn’t split across Remain and Leave , really what planet is he on . > > > > All Remainers need to ditch Labour , get behind the Lib Dems . > > Not many of them will want to support the Tories' Little Helpers!
Time to move on . Yes they made a mistake but for the EU elections Remainers need to ditch Labour.
> @Cyclefree said: > My postal vote has not arrived. Hmmm.... > > Incidentally, I only applied for a postal vote in 2016 because I would be out of the country for the referendum and I very clearly remember saying that I only wanted it for the referendum not for ever. Despite that they keep on giving it to me? How do I cancel it?
Contact the Electoral Registration Office , though they may ask you to confirm in writing.
> @TOPPING said: > Danny Baker fired by BBC over royal baby chimp tweet, speaking of what's acceptable. > > He must be the world's greatest numpty if he didn't understand the implications of his tweet. > https://www.bbc.co.uk/news/entertainment-arts-48212693 > > There's a lot not to like about this. I took his explanation at face value. Not his job to police anyone else's racist thoughts.
There's a lot not to like about this. I took his explanation at face value. Not his job to police anyone else's racist thoughts.
My immediate associations were Bishop Wilberforce making a twat of himself in the 1860 debate with Huxley* with the "descended from monkeys" attack, and "If you could see her through my eyes" from Cabaret. Neither is a good look. I just don't recognize circus animals getting dressed up as a meme, and I don't see that Archie was dressed differently from any other 1 day old.
*there is a lot of revisionism about whether he really did make a twat of himself.
> @Ishmael_Z said: > Danny Baker fired by BBC over royal baby chimp tweet, speaking of what's acceptable. > > He must be the world's greatest numpty if he didn't understand the implications of his tweet. > > https://www.bbc.co.uk/news/entertainment-arts-48212693
Hasnt he previously been sacked twice before by the bbc?
Corbyns speech is actually quite good if this was a general election . He’s just three years too early . Sorry Labour me and many other Remain supporters won’t be voting for you on May 23rd.
There's a lot not to like about this. I took his explanation at face value. Not his job to police anyone else's racist thoughts.
My immediate associations were Bishop Wilberforce making a twat of himself in the 1860 debate with Huxley* with the "descended from monkeys" attack, and "If you could see her through my eyes" from Cabaret. Neither is a good look. I just don't recognize circus animals getting dressed up as a meme, and I don't see that Archie was dressed differently from any other 1 day old.
*there is a lot of revisionism about whether he really did make a twat of himself.
Yes on reflection, the bigger picture (literally) is a bad one and that was a bad thing. But I do still believe that Baker hasn't a racist bone in his body and was looking quickly for something to sum up the absurd (in his eyes) pomp and ceremony of a royal baby.
> @nico67 said: > > @justin124 said: > > > @nico67 said: > > > Cluless Corbyn still pushing his we are the party to unite the country guff . And to say the country isn’t split across Remain and Leave , really what planet is he on . > > > > > > All Remainers need to ditch Labour , get behind the Lib Dems . > > > > Not many of them will want to support the Tories' Little Helpers! > > Time to move on . Yes they made a mistake but for the EU elections Remainers need to ditch Labour.
No- they still deserved to be punished for the misery they helped bring to millions. Any Labour member coming out advocating support should face expulsion.
> @justin124 said: > > @nico67 said: > > > @justin124 said: > > > > @nico67 said: > > > > Cluless Corbyn still pushing his we are the party to unite the country guff . And to say the country isn’t split across Remain and Leave , really what planet is he on . > > > > > > > > All Remainers need to ditch Labour , get behind the Lib Dems . > > > > > > Not many of them will want to support the Tories' Little Helpers! > > > > Time to move on . Yes they made a mistake but for the EU elections Remainers need to ditch Labour. > > No they still deserved to be punished for the misery they helped bring to millions. Any Labour member coming out advocating support should face expulsion.
I’m not a member just a voter . Needs must , I will vote to ensure Labour gets the message , get off the fence or see Remainers desert the party .
One good reason for having another referendum with May's current deal on it will be purely to laugh at whatever official campaign position the Labour party takes on it.
"Um, well, we still want Brexit and want to respect the original referendum result, but not this damaging Tory Brexit but a brilliant amazing Labour Brexit, so you should vote Remain just now? We think? So that we can get better Brexit for you in the future, maybe? Or maybe just don't vote at all just now and we'll just all wait till the Tories implode, or something? [mumble mumble walks away]"
> @justin124 said: > > @nico67 said: > > Cluless Corbyn still pushing his we are the party to unite the country guff . And to say the country isn’t split across Remain and Leave , really what planet is he on . > > > > All Remainers need to ditch Labour , get behind the Lib Dems . > > Not many of them will want to support the Tories' Little Helpers!
That argument has a limited life-span and the locals suggested that we might be coming to the end of it.
It's only four years since the end of the Coalition and the man who trebled tuition fees is still leader of the Lib Dems but the reality is that that issue is long gone as a driving force - the 18-year old students starting at university this September were at primary school when the Lib Dems ratted on their election promise - and Brexit and Corbyn have driven revolutions in voting behaviour, not least in that the gap between the Lib Dems and Tories is massively wider now than in 2010 and the prospect of a repeat of the Rose Garden love-in is vanishingly remote and, hence, not really credible as a scare tactic.
> Yes on reflection, the bigger picture (literally) is a bad one and that was a bad thing. But I do still believe that Baker hasn't a racist bone in his body and was looking quickly for something to sum up the absurd (in his eyes) pomp and ceremony of a royal baby. > > But I do get the outrage.
It really is best to avoid all simian references when discussing matters involving black people.
I remember Roy Hodgson when England manager, half time team talk, Andros Townsend having a blinder, Roy urging his teammates to try and give him plenty of the ball.
"Look, let's keep it simple," he said. "Just feed the monkey."
Could have been a lot worse for him than it was. Luckily, Roy is so obviously not at all racist, the players knew that, no offence taken.
But far preferable to have said, "Just feed Andros."
If an animal term had to be used, for whatever reason, go with something like 'duck' or 'pigeon'.
> @kinabalu said: > > @TOPPING said: > > > Yes on reflection, the bigger picture (literally) is a bad one and that was a bad thing. But I do still believe that Baker hasn't a racist bone in his body and was looking quickly for something to sum up the absurd (in his eyes) pomp and ceremony of a royal baby. > > > > But I do get the outrage. > > It really is best to avoid all simian references when discussing matters involving black people. > > I remember Roy Hodgson when England manager, half time team talk, Andros Townsend having a blinder, Roy urging his teammates to try and give him plenty of the ball. > > "Look, let's keep it simple," he said. "Just feed the monkey." > > Could have been a lot worse for him than it was. Luckily, Roy is so obviously not at all racist, the players knew that, no offence taken. > > But far preferable to have said, "Just feed Andros." > > If an animal term had to be used, for whatever reason, go with something like 'duck' or 'pigeon'.
> @edmundintokyo said: > If you wanted 3 options it might actually be cleaner to add a 4th, ie > > Semi-finals: > 1) Leave group - Deal vs No-Deal > 2) Remain group - David Cameron's Renegotiation vs David Cameron is a massive fucking bell-end > > Finals: > Winner of (1) vs Winner of (2) > > The advantage of that is that otherwise you have this whole can of worms about how much funding and media time each side gets.
If the Electoral Commission had put "David Cameron is a massive fucking bell-end but remain in the EU anyway" on the ballot paper, I'm pretty sure Remain would have romped home.
> @nico67 said: > > @kyf_100 said: > > > @Mysticrose said: > > > > @brokenwheel said: > > > > > @Scott_P said: > > > > > https://twitter.com/dhothersall/status/1126409263998435328 > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > Is anyone outraged by "bollocks"? Do they also find "bum" and "knickers" unacceptable? This seems to be making an unsustainable claim to edginess, as if it said "F-- May, f-- Rees Mogg and above all f-- that utter c-- Farage." > > > > > > > > For me it just seems immature. I guess that’s not necessarily a bad thing if you are targeting younger voters, but it’s a risky strategy. > > > > > > It's bloody great publicity. > > > > > > And no one, repeat no one, gives a shit about the word 'bollocks.' > > > > > > Apart from OfCom. Obvs. > > > > The real outrage here is the Lib Dems still using the word "democrat" in their name. > > Using that analogy after a GE the other parties should just not bother turning up at the Commons . Why bother opposing , the people have spoken ! People are allowed to disagree . The so called Leavers for more sovereignty really just want a dictatorship.
Not really. The equivalent would be after a general election, the previous government carrying on in office.
The fifth and final stage in any democratic process is implementing the result.
> @david_herdson said: > > @justin124 said: > > > @nico67 said: > > > Cluless Corbyn still pushing his we are the party to unite the country guff . And to say the country isn’t split across Remain and Leave , really what planet is he on . > > > > > > All Remainers need to ditch Labour , get behind the Lib Dems . > > > > Not many of them will want to support the Tories' Little Helpers! > > That argument has a limited life-span and the locals suggested that we might be coming to the end of it. > > It's only four years since the end of the Coalition and the man who trebled tuition fees is still leader of the Lib Dems but the reality is that that issue is long gone as a driving force - the 18-year old students starting at university this September were at primary school when the Lib Dems ratted on their election promise - and Brexit and Corbyn have driven revolutions in voting behaviour, not least in that the gap between the Lib Dems and Tories is massively wider now than in 2010 and the prospect of a repeat of the Rose Garden love-in is vanishingly remote and, hence, not really credible as a scare tactic.
But the gap between Cameron and Clegg appeared pretty big in 2010 with Cable also was much closer to Darling in policy terms than to Osborne. In the end, that did not prevent them going along with the Austerity programme . Voters will need to be reminded that the 'LibDems are not to be trusted' but I suspect it will remain quite a potent weapon in Labour's armoury.
> @justin124 said: > > @nico67 said: > > > @justin124 said: > > > > @nico67 said: > > > > Cluless Corbyn still pushing his we are the party to unite the country guff . And to say the country isn’t split across Remain and Leave , really what planet is he on . > > > > > > > > All Remainers need to ditch Labour , get behind the Lib Dems . > > > > > > Not many of them will want to support the Tories' Little Helpers! > > > > Time to move on . Yes they made a mistake but for the EU elections Remainers need to ditch Labour. > > No- they still deserved to be punished for the misery they helped bring to millions. Any Labour member coming out advocating support should face expulsion.
I expect many would be pleased to leave labour with their non position on Brexit and Maduro admiring leader
> @Mango said: > > @edmundintokyo said: > > If you wanted 3 options it might actually be cleaner to add a 4th, ie > > > > Semi-finals: > > 1) Leave group - Deal vs No-Deal > > 2) Remain group - David Cameron's Renegotiation vs David Cameron is a massive fucking bell-end > > > > Finals: > > Winner of (1) vs Winner of (2) > > > > The advantage of that is that otherwise you have this whole can of worms about how much funding and media time each side gets. > > If the Electoral Commission had put "David Cameron is a massive fucking bell-end but remain in the EU anyway" on the ballot paper, I'm pretty sure Remain would have romped home.
If Cameron had said that he would resign on the Friday morning regardless of the result then Remain might well have won. As it was, we got the chance to wipe the smile off his face.
Greens predicted to hold no seats if no one votes tactically (i.e. the status quo), despite the fact they have three already (two of which they have held since PR was introduced in 1999).
Although, TBH, I am a big fan of the sort of PC that has rendered insidiously racist and sexist language something to be offended by rather than accepted as normal.
The PC that I find dangerous is the sort that enforces group-think and prevents issues being discussed properly - which is something you see on occasions on both sides of politics, left and right.
> @rottenborough said: > https://www.remainunited.org/be-tactical/ > > This is utter crap. > > Greens predicted to hold no seats if no one votes tactically (i.e. the status quo), despite the fact they have three already (two of which they have held since PR was introduced in 1999). >
It looks like it was knocked up in about 20 minutes. And half the time when I click a link I get a server error.
> @david_herdson said: > > @justin124 said: > > > @nico67 said: > > > Cluless Corbyn still pushing his we are the party to unite the country guff . And to say the country isn’t split across Remain and Leave , really what planet is he on . > > > > > > All Remainers need to ditch Labour , get behind the Lib Dems . > > > > Not many of them will want to support the Tories' Little Helpers! > > That argument has a limited life-span and the locals suggested that we might be coming to the end of it. > > It's only four years since the end of the Coalition and the man who trebled tuition fees is still leader of the Lib Dems but the reality is that that issue is long gone as a driving force - the 18-year old students starting at university this September were at primary school when the Lib Dems ratted on their election promise - and Brexit and Corbyn have driven revolutions in voting behaviour, not least in that the gap between the Lib Dems and Tories is massively wider now than in 2010 and the prospect of a repeat of the Rose Garden love-in is vanishingly remote and, hence, not really credible as a scare tactic.
If Labour Remainers want to abandon Corbyn in the Euro elections for an unequivocal party of Remain, then they have 3 choices: Lib Dems, Greens or CHUK.
Of those three, why on earth in a PR based election should they choose the party which was complicit in ushering in a a period of Conservative austerity, sustained that programme for a full 5 year parliament and is still led by a former Secretary of State from that Government?
Memories will take a long time to fade. As time passes, the number of students suffering under the punitive tuition fees regime originally brought in by Cable is only growing, as is the number of former students now paying those fees back in real deductions from their take home pay and receiving annual statements reminding them that those huge debts will be there to repay for pretty well the rest of their working lives.
> @rottenborough said: > https://www.remainunited.org/be-tactical/ > > This is utter crap. > > Greens predicted to hold no seats if no one votes tactically (i.e. the status quo), despite the fact they have three already (two of which they have held since PR was introduced in 1999). >
Reminds me of the SNPOut # on twitter which was 90% Tories.
> @rottenborough said: > https://www.remainunited.org/be-tactical/ > > This is utter crap. > > Greens predicted to hold no seats if no one votes tactically (i.e. the status quo), despite the fact they have three already (two of which they have held since PR was introduced in 1999). >
Indeed it is crap. A load of bollocks to try and dupe people into voting LibDem.
Why should Green voters switch to the LibDems when their preferred party beat the LibDems last time, has sitting MEPs and came close to winning seats in other regions.
And if you are a Green / environmentalist / eco-socialist / etc. that is why you vote for the Green Party - the LibDems offer none of that ideology.
> @solarflare said: > > @rottenborough said: > > https://www.remainunited.org/be-tactical/ > > > > This is utter crap. > > > > Greens predicted to hold no seats if no one votes tactically (i.e. the status quo), despite the fact they have three already (two of which they have held since PR was introduced in 1999). > > > > It looks like it was knocked up in about 20 minutes. And half the time when I click a link I get a server error.
Bizarre. Gina Miller is just as likely to cock it up for Remain as to help unless she has detailed knowledge of likely voting behaviour which no opinion poll could hope to produce. Don't think she understands the voting system..
> Greens predicted to hold no seats if no one votes tactically (i.e. the status quo), despite the fact they have three already (two of which they have held since PR was introduced in 1999).
>
It looks like it was knocked up in about 20 minutes. And half the time when I click a link I get a server error.
Green voters/members backlash to this tosh has begun:
> @Wulfrun_Phil said: > > @david_herdson said: > > > @justin124 said: > > > > @nico67 said: > > > > Cluless Corbyn still pushing his we are the party to unite the country guff . And to say the country isn’t split across Remain and Leave , really what planet is he on . > > > > > > > > All Remainers need to ditch Labour , get behind the Lib Dems . > > > > > > Not many of them will want to support the Tories' Little Helpers! > > > > That argument has a limited life-span and the locals suggested that we might be coming to the end of it. > > > > It's only four years since the end of the Coalition and the man who trebled tuition fees is still leader of the Lib Dems but the reality is that that issue is long gone as a driving force - the 18-year old students starting at university this September were at primary school when the Lib Dems ratted on their election promise - and Brexit and Corbyn have driven revolutions in voting behaviour, not least in that the gap between the Lib Dems and Tories is massively wider now than in 2010 and the prospect of a repeat of the Rose Garden love-in is vanishingly remote and, hence, not really credible as a scare tactic. > > If Labour Remainers want to abandon Corbyn in the Euro elections for an unequivocal party of Remain, then they have 3 choices: Lib Dems, Greens or CHUK. > > Of those three, why on earth in a PR based election should they choose the party which was complicit in ushering in a a period of Conservative austerity, sustained that programme for a full 5 year parliament and is still led by a former Secretary of State from that Government? > > Memories will take a long time to fade. As time passes, the number of students suffering under the punitive tuition fees regime originally brought in by Cable is only growing, as is the number of former students now paying those fees back in real deductions from their take home pay and receiving annual statements reminding them that those huge debts will be there to repay for pretty well the rest of their working lives.
----------------------
Anecdotal evidence from doorstep campaigning in London is that Labour remain voters are considering switching to Lib Dem or Greens for Euros. Change UK has little profile and rarely mentioned.
It is so offensive to those who really lived in an unfree country and to those who fought to free them. Britain is a free country. The EU is not some totalitarian dictator.
It’s not just hyperbole; it really is disgusting to make outrageously untrue statements like that. There are many parts of Europe which really knew what it is like to be unfree. Britain, thank God, was not and is not one of those countries. Politicians here ought to remember that.
Brexiteers lie compulsively. Because they can. Because the media doesn’t pull them up on it, doesn’t have the ability to forensically question. Because their core vote is the ignorant and reactionary.
> > If you wanted 3 options it might actually be cleaner to add a 4th, ie
> >
> > Semi-finals:
> > 1) Leave group - Deal vs No-Deal
> > 2) Remain group - David Cameron's Renegotiation vs David Cameron is a massive fucking bell-end
> >
> > Finals:
> > Winner of (1) vs Winner of (2)
> >
> > The advantage of that is that otherwise you have this whole can of worms about how much funding and media time each side gets.
>
> If the Electoral Commission had put "David Cameron is a massive fucking bell-end but remain in the EU anyway" on the ballot paper, I'm pretty sure Remain would have romped home.
If Cameron had said that he would resign on the Friday morning regardless of the result then Remain might well have won. As it was, we got the chance to wipe the smile off his face.
Mr. Rentool, I'm saying voting on a matter that will likely have an impact for decades to come, maybe even a century, on the basis of a single politician's future, when said politician was almost certain to go within a couple of years anyway, is absolutely idiotic.
If it were just an added bonus, either way, then fine.
But if it's the determining factor in casting a vote, then letting a short-term tactical result dictate your strategic position is bloody stupid.
Yes on reflection, the bigger picture (literally) is a bad one and that was a bad thing. But I do still believe that Baker hasn't a racist bone in his body and was looking quickly for something to sum up the absurd (in his eyes) pomp and ceremony of a royal baby.
But I do get the outrage.
Exactly, he regularly post funny old photos on Twitter, occasionally mocks royals and other posh people, and derides media hype of all sorts. I can honestly say I have never heard or read anything by Baker that I would consider racist. So essentially he's been fired for the perception rather than any intent on his part.
> @SandyRentool said: > Brokenshire in the Commons justifying why the taxpayer is bailing out fatcat freeholders.
Grenfell related ?
Private owners not moving fast enough so Gov't will pay I heard on the wireless this morning. Well if the Gov't is going to ultimately cough up, the freeholders won't move will they !
Yes on reflection, the bigger picture (literally) is a bad one and that was a bad thing. But I do still believe that Baker hasn't a racist bone in his body and was looking quickly for something to sum up the absurd (in his eyes) pomp and ceremony of a royal baby.
But I do get the outrage.
Exactly, he regularly post funny old photos on Twitter, occasionally mocks royals and other posh people, and derides media hype of all sorts. I can honestly say I have never heard or read anything by Baker that I would consider racist. So essentially he's been fired for the perception rather than any intent on his part.
If the tweet could be taken in two ways, one of which was offensive, I would agree. It may be a limitation on my part, but I honestly don't see an inoffensive point to it at all.
> Yes on reflection, the bigger picture (literally) is a bad one and that was a bad thing. But I do still believe that Baker hasn't a racist bone in his body and was looking quickly for something to sum up the absurd (in his eyes) pomp and ceremony of a royal baby.
>
> But I do get the outrage.
It really is best to avoid all simian references when discussing matters involving black people.
I remember Roy Hodgson when England manager, half time team talk, Andros Townsend having a blinder, Roy urging his teammates to try and give him plenty of the ball.
"Look, let's keep it simple," he said. "Just feed the monkey."
Could have been a lot worse for him than it was. Luckily, Roy is so obviously not at all racist, the players knew that, no offence taken.
But far preferable to have said, "Just feed Andros."
If an animal term had to be used, for whatever reason, go with something like 'duck' or 'pigeon'.
Friend of mine's wife was on the train once with their five year old. Sitting opposite a black guy.
The child points at him and says "you're a monkey".
After a moment, the mother reprimands the child gently and says to it "No. You're a monkey."
Yes on reflection, the bigger picture (literally) is a bad one and that was a bad thing. But I do still believe that Baker hasn't a racist bone in his body and was looking quickly for something to sum up the absurd (in his eyes) pomp and ceremony of a royal baby.
But I do get the outrage.
Exactly, he regularly post funny old photos on Twitter, occasionally mocks royals and other posh people, and derides media hype of all sorts. I can honestly say I have never heard or read anything by Baker that I would consider racist. So essentially he's been fired for the perception rather than any intent on his part.
But intent is no longer the standard, even in law. Perception is everything.
> @anothernick said: > > @Wulfrun_Phil said: > > > @david_herdson said: > > > > @justin124 said: > > > > > @nico67 said: > > > > > Cluless Corbyn still pushing his we are the party to unite the country guff . And to say the country isn’t split across Remain and Leave , really what planet is he on . > > > > > > > > > > All Remainers need to ditch Labour , get behind the Lib Dems . > > > > > > > > Not many of them will want to support the Tories' Little Helpers! > > > > > > That argument has a limited life-span and the locals suggested that we might be coming to the end of it. > > > > > > It's only four years since the end of the Coalition and the man who trebled tuition fees is still leader of the Lib Dems but the reality is that that issue is long gone as a driving force - the 18-year old students starting at university this September were at primary school when the Lib Dems ratted on their election promise - and Brexit and Corbyn have driven revolutions in voting behaviour, not least in that the gap between the Lib Dems and Tories is massively wider now than in 2010 and the prospect of a repeat of the Rose Garden love-in is vanishingly remote and, hence, not really credible as a scare tactic. > > > > If Labour Remainers want to abandon Corbyn in the Euro elections for an unequivocal party of Remain, then they have 3 choices: Lib Dems, Greens or CHUK. > > > > Of those three, why on earth in a PR based election should they choose the party which was complicit in ushering in a a period of Conservative austerity, sustained that programme for a full 5 year parliament and is still led by a former Secretary of State from that Government? > > > > Memories will take a long time to fade. As time passes, the number of students suffering under the punitive tuition fees regime originally brought in by Cable is only growing, as is the number of former students now paying those fees back in real deductions from their take home pay and receiving annual statements reminding them that those huge debts will be there to repay for pretty well the rest of their working lives. > > ---------------------- > > Anecdotal evidence from doorstep campaigning in London is that Labour remain voters are considering switching to Lib Dem or Greens for Euros. Change UK has little profile and rarely mentioned.
Remainers have to accept that the BP is odds on to top the EU elections . I would of course had wanted Labour to beat them but a vote for Labour now is a vote for Brexit.
The only way to a second vote is to get Labour to support that unequivocally and that only happens if they see huge losses driven by Remainers .
> @glw said: > Yes on reflection, the bigger picture (literally) is a bad one and that was a bad thing. But I do still believe that Baker hasn't a racist bone in his body and was looking quickly for something to sum up the absurd (in his eyes) pomp and ceremony of a royal baby. > > But I do get the outrage. > > Exactly, he regularly post funny old photos on Twitter, occasionally mocks royals and other posh people, and derides media hype of all sorts. I can honestly say I have never heard or read anything by Baker that I would consider racist. So essentially he's been fired for the perception rather than any intent on his part.
His defence seems to be that he was trying to be quite offensive in a PC way (implying the Royals are thicko performers) and ended up being spectacularly offensive in a very un-PC way (implying he is a thicko peformer). Life-threatening levels of irony.
If the tweet could be taken in two ways, one of which was offensive, I would agree. It may be a limitation on my part, but I honestly don't see an inoffensive point to it at all.
> @SandyRentool said: > > @rottenborough said: > > https://www.remainunited.org/be-tactical/ > > > > This is utter crap. > > > > Greens predicted to hold no seats if no one votes tactically (i.e. the status quo), despite the fact they have three already (two of which they have held since PR was introduced in 1999). > > > > Indeed it is crap. A load of bollocks to try and dupe people into voting LibDem. > > Why should Green voters switch to the LibDems when their preferred party beat the LibDems last time, has sitting MEPs and came close to winning seats in other regions. > > And if you are a Green / environmentalist / eco-socialist / etc. that is why you vote for the Green Party - the LibDems offer none of that ideology.
I agree that in a PR election the motivation is less; and that people may well have other, stronger, genuine reasons for voting Green than to remain in the EU.
However... for those committed to Remain above all, there will be a stronger narrative if a single entity has a stronger voice. On the other side, Farage looks like hoovering up from BNP-Lite, but the Remainers are far more evenly split.
But this looks like a poor way of achieving either maximum Remain seats or a strong single voice though.. not least as there are virtually no existing seats held by these parties anyway.
Combining forces in Peterborough, or a more thought-out tactical voting strategy ahead of a GE, might bear more fruit...
If the tweet could be taken in two ways, one of which was offensive, I would agree. It may be a limitation on my part, but I honestly don't see an inoffensive point to it at all.
It is a limitation on your part.
Fair enough.
I assume you are doing a Fermat, in the sense that there is not enough space in this margin to expound the true and inoffensive version of the tweet. Or perhaps you are pushed for time.
> @glw said: > Yes on reflection, the bigger picture (literally) is a bad one and that was a bad thing. But I do still believe that Baker hasn't a racist bone in his body and was looking quickly for something to sum up the absurd (in his eyes) pomp and ceremony of a royal baby. > > But I do get the outrage. > > Exactly, he regularly post funny old photos on Twitter, occasionally mocks royals and other posh people, and derides media hype of all sorts. I can honestly say I have never heard or read anything by Baker that I would consider racist. So essentially he's been fired for the perception rather than any intent on his part.
I think it's stronger than "perception" - it's a lack of awareness.
It's the same with antisemitism. In at least some cases, I'm happy to accept that there's no ill-intent in "global elite" (etc) tweets - but that won't and shouldn't stop people calling out the historic misuse of such phrases.
I'm not entirely convinced he needed firing, but the genius and problem of Danny Baker is that he doesn't know when to STFU. 95 per cent of the time it makes a good line on the radio. The rest, not so much.
> @Harris_Tweed said: > > @SandyRentool said: > > > @rottenborough said: > > > https://www.remainunited.org/be-tactical/ > > > > > > This is utter crap. > > > > > > Greens predicted to hold no seats if no one votes tactically (i.e. the status quo), despite the fact they have three already (two of which they have held since PR was introduced in 1999). > > > > > > > Indeed it is crap. A load of bollocks to try and dupe people into voting LibDem. > > > > Why should Green voters switch to the LibDems when their preferred party beat the LibDems last time, has sitting MEPs and came close to winning seats in other regions. > > > > And if you are a Green / environmentalist / eco-socialist / etc. that is why you vote for the Green Party - the LibDems offer none of that ideology. > > I agree that in a PR election the motivation is less; and that people may well have other, stronger, genuine reasons for voting Green than to remain in the EU. > > However... for those committed to Remain above all, there will be a stronger narrative if a single entity has a stronger voice. On the other side, Farage looks like hoovering up from BNP-Lite, but the Remainers are far more evenly split. > > But this looks like a poor way of achieving either maximum Remain seats or a strong single voice though.. not least as there are virtually no existing seats held by these parties anyway. > > Combining forces in Peterborough, or a more thought-out tactical voting strategy ahead of a GE, might bear more fruit...
Maybe not even in Peterborough. I'd have thought a strong, credible, United remain candidate would drain the life out of Labour and help Brexit to win. Disappearing without trace might be the best strategy but not one they will be inclined to follow.
> @matt said: > > @williamglenn said: > > > https://twitter.com/bbcr4today/status/1126402756993081346 > > > > > > Daft old bat. > > It is so offensive to those who really lived in an unfree country and to those who fought to free them. Britain is a free country. The EU is not some totalitarian dictator. > > It’s not just hyperbole; it really is disgusting to make outrageously untrue statements like that. There are many parts of Europe which really knew what it is like to be unfree. Britain, thank God, was not and is not one of those countries. Politicians here ought to remember that. > > Brexiteers lie compulsively. Because they can. Because the media doesn’t pull them up on it, doesn’t have the ability to forensically question. Because their core vote is the ignorant and reactionary.
This site has become a good place for Remainers to talk crap to each other.
Yes on reflection, the bigger picture (literally) is a bad one and that was a bad thing. But I do still believe that Baker hasn't a racist bone in his body and was looking quickly for something to sum up the absurd (in his eyes) pomp and ceremony of a royal baby.
But I do get the outrage.
Exactly, he regularly post funny old photos on Twitter, occasionally mocks royals and other posh people, and derides media hype of all sorts. I can honestly say I have never heard or read anything by Baker that I would consider racist. So essentially he's been fired for the perception rather than any intent on his part.
If the tweet could be taken in two ways, one of which was offensive, I would agree. It may be a limitation on my part, but I honestly don't see an inoffensive point to it at all.
I don't think there's any inoffensive way of reading a public tweet about any baby being a primate. This isn't some private family in-joke. Babies are not gifted to us to be demeaned or ridiculed.
BTW, how would this tweet be interpreted if Nigel Farage, JRM or Christopher Chope had been the author? Would Danny Baker's friends be rushing to place a banter like gloss on it? And would Baker himself think that only diseased minds saw anything wrong in it?
If the tweet could be taken in two ways, one of which was offensive, I would agree. It may be a limitation on my part, but I honestly don't see an inoffensive point to it at all.
It is a limitation on your part.
Fair enough.
I assume you are doing a Fermat, in the sense that there is not enough space in this margin to expound the true and inoffensive version of the tweet. Or perhaps you are pushed for time.
You would have to follow him on Twitter to see the sort of pictures he posts, or listen to him, or read his books. He's mocking the royals, and the media obsession with the royals.
To me the point of the picture is that the media aren't interested in the child, a monkey in a suit would suffice, they are only interested because he's royal, and so you end up with the absurb hyperbole and extensive coverage about what is ultimately a relatively trivial event. That's what Baker's poking fun at, not the ethnicity of the child.
Of course if you know nothing about Baker and see the image retwetted and are looking to be offended, or to be so on behalf of others, you can construe a racist meaning even though that was not the intent.
> @algarkirk said: > Yes on reflection, the bigger picture (literally) is a bad one and that was a bad thing. But I do still believe that Baker hasn't a racist bone in his body and was looking quickly for something to sum up the absurd (in his eyes) pomp and ceremony of a royal baby. > > But I do get the outrage. > > Exactly, he regularly post funny old photos on Twitter, occasionally mocks royals and other posh people, and derides media hype of all sorts. I can honestly say I have never heard or read anything by Baker that I would consider racist. So essentially he's been fired for the perception rather than any intent on his part. > > If the tweet could be taken in two ways, one of which was offensive, I would agree. It may be a limitation on my part, but I honestly don't see an inoffensive point to it at all. > > I don't think there's any inoffensive way of reading a public tweet about any baby being a primate. This isn't some private family in-joke. Babies are not gifted to us to be demeaned or ridiculed. > > BTW, how would this tweet be interpreted if Nigel Farage, JRM or Christopher Chope had been the author? Would Danny Baker's friends be rushing to place a banter like gloss on it? And would Baker himself think that only diseased minds saw anything wrong in it?
I love that he genuinely applied the "Takes one to know one" argument
> @GIN1138 said: > Hammond saying Tory leadership election must "conclude" as quickly as possible? > > Looks like this is happening?
I am content for it to happen anytime from now but it must be a proper campaign with candidate hustings, fully televised, and then two sent on to the members for confirmation
I expect many and varied candidates will enter the fray and hopefully someone will storm through and possible entirely unexpectedly
TM has done her best to square the circle but time for her to allow the campaign, remaining as caretaker PM until her successor is appointed by the party
> @TOPPING said: > Danny Baker fired by BBC over royal baby chimp tweet, speaking of what's acceptable. > > He must be the world's greatest numpty if he didn't understand the implications of his tweet. > https://www.bbc.co.uk/news/entertainment-arts-48212693 > > There's a lot not to like about this. I took his explanation at face value. Not his job to police anyone else's racist thoughts. > > My immediate associations were Bishop Wilberforce making a twat of himself in the 1860 debate with Huxley* with the "descended from monkeys" attack, and "If you could see her through my eyes" from Cabaret. Neither is a good look. > I just don't recognize circus animals getting dressed up as a meme, and I don't see that Archie was dressed differently from any other 1 day old. > > *there is a lot of revisionism about whether he really did make a twat of himself. > > Yes on reflection, the bigger picture (literally) is a bad one and that was a bad thing. But I do still believe that Baker hasn't a racist bone in his body and was looking quickly for something to sum up the absurd (in his eyes) pomp and ceremony of a royal baby. > > But I do get the outrage.
It also further shows what good PR it was for the royals to get Meghan into the family, they now get the PC vote with the new baby as well as the traditional patriotism vote behind the monarchy
> @glw said: > If the tweet could be taken in two ways, one of which was offensive, I would agree. It may be a limitation on my part, but I honestly don't see an inoffensive point to it at all. > > It is a limitation on your part. > > Fair enough. > > I assume you are doing a Fermat, in the sense that there is not enough space in this margin to expound the true and inoffensive version of the tweet. Or perhaps you are pushed for time. > > You would have to follow him on Twitter to see the sort of pictures he posts, or listen to him, or read his books. He's mocking the royals, and the media obsession with the royals. > > To me the point of the picture is that the media aren't interested in the child, a monkey in a suit would suffice, they are only interested because he's royal, and so you end up with the absurb hyperbole and extensive coverage about what is ultimately a relatively trivial event. That's what Baker's poking fun at, not the ethnicity of the child. > > Of course if you know nothing about Baker and see the image retwetted and are looking to be offended, or to be so on behalf of others, you can construe a racist meaning even though that was not the intent.
I am not looking to be offended, I have never heard of Mr Baker until today, and you are pushing the "out of context" defence beyond its limits.
BTW, how would this tweet be interpreted if Nigel Farage, JRM or Christopher Chope had been the author? Would Danny Baker's friends be rushing to place a banter like gloss on it? And would Baker himself think that only diseased minds saw anything wrong in it?
It would be interpreted differently, because of offensive things those people have said previously, and because they don't have a history of poking fun at the establishment and media. Amazingly enough context does in fact matter, and if you take things out of context and apply the modern sensibility of "I'm offended by absolutely bloody everything at all times" you can find offense in otherwise innocuous things.
Hammond saying Tory leadership election must "conclude" as quickly as possible?
Looks like this is happening?
What does he mean by 'conclude' though? That people should shut up and stop talking about it?
And will anyone actually DO something? Like resign if May doesn't go? Because there is a lot of piss and wind about at the moment.
If something is going to happen (GE, 2nd Ref, leadership contest) it needs to happen NOW (In the month of May) as once we get to June, it's... oh my, is that the time. Summer hols for eight weeks, then back for Conferences in September and oh my, it's 9th October. Wasn't there something we had to do later this month?
> @nico67 said: > > @anothernick said: > > > @Wulfrun_Phil said: > > > > @david_herdson said: > > > > > @justin124 said: > > > > > > @nico67 said: > > > > > > Cluless Corbyn still pushing his we are the party to unite the country guff . And to say the country isn’t split across Remain and Leave , really what planet is he on . > > > > > > > > > > > > All Remainers need to ditch Labour , get behind the Lib Dems . > > > > > > > > > > Not many of them will want to support the Tories' Little Helpers! > > > > > > > > That argument has a limited life-span and the locals suggested that we might be coming to the end of it. > > > > > > > > It's only four years since the end of the Coalition and the man who trebled tuition fees is still leader of the Lib Dems but the reality is that that issue is long gone as a driving force - the 18-year old students starting at university this September were at primary school when the Lib Dems ratted on their election promise - and Brexit and Corbyn have driven revolutions in voting behaviour, not least in that the gap between the Lib Dems and Tories is massively wider now than in 2010 and the prospect of a repeat of the Rose Garden love-in is vanishingly remote and, hence, not really credible as a scare tactic. > > > > > > If Labour Remainers want to abandon Corbyn in the Euro elections for an unequivocal party of Remain, then they have 3 choices: Lib Dems, Greens or CHUK. > > > > > > Of those three, why on earth in a PR based election should they choose the party which was complicit in ushering in a a period of Conservative austerity, sustained that programme for a full 5 year parliament and is still led by a former Secretary of State from that Government? > > > > > > Memories will take a long time to fade. As time passes, the number of students suffering under the punitive tuition fees regime originally brought in by Cable is only growing, as is the number of former students now paying those fees back in real deductions from their take home pay and receiving annual statements reminding them that those huge debts will be there to repay for pretty well the rest of their working lives. > > > > ---------------------- > > > > Anecdotal evidence from doorstep campaigning in London is that Labour remain voters are considering switching to Lib Dem or Greens for Euros. Change UK has little profile and rarely mentioned. > > Remainers have to accept that the BP is odds on to top the EU elections . I would of course had wanted Labour to beat them but a vote for Labour now is a vote for Brexit. > > The only way to a second vote is to get Labour to support that unequivocally and that only happens if they see huge losses driven by Remainers .
People do not take the EU elections seriously - indeed many see them in a frivolous light. Turnout could well be lower than for the Local Elections last week.
> @HYUFD said: > > It also further shows what good PR it was for the royals to get Meghan into the family, they now get the PC vote with the new baby as well as the traditional patriotism vote behind the monarchy
If they were up for election, that is. And who knows, perhaps one day they will be.
And on my point about time, I'm probably not wrong in saying that Parliament probably only has about thirty sitting days until the end of October?
They don't usually sit on Friday. They have another bank holiday later this month, and whilst not technically off, half of them will bugger off for half term. Summer is a nice long lazy six (Seven?) weeks off, and then back for a week (four days) in September (yawn, feel a bit tired after all that rest) before they go off again for a month during conferences.
Someone tell me I'm wrong, and we really have loads of Parliamentary time left to sort out Brexit, because I'm not seeing it.
> @HYUFD said: > > @TOPPING said: > > Danny Baker fired by BBC over royal baby chimp tweet, speaking of what's acceptable. > > > > He must be the world's greatest numpty if he didn't understand the implications of his tweet. > > https://www.bbc.co.uk/news/entertainment-arts-48212693 > > > > There's a lot not to like about this. I took his explanation at face value. Not his job to police anyone else's racist thoughts. > > > > My immediate associations were Bishop Wilberforce making a twat of himself in the 1860 debate with Huxley* with the "descended from monkeys" attack, and "If you could see her through my eyes" from Cabaret. Neither is a good look. > > I just don't recognize circus animals getting dressed up as a meme, and I don't see that Archie was dressed differently from any other 1 day old. > > > > *there is a lot of revisionism about whether he really did make a twat of himself. > > > > Yes on reflection, the bigger picture (literally) is a bad one and that was a bad thing. But I do still believe that Baker hasn't a racist bone in his body and was looking quickly for something to sum up the absurd (in his eyes) pomp and ceremony of a royal baby. > > > > But I do get the outrage. > > It also further shows what good PR it was for the royals to get Meghan into the family, they now get the PC vote with the new baby as well as the traditional patriotism vote behind the monarchy
Comments
> > @CarlottaVance said:
>
> > > @glw said:
>
> >
>
> > > Never thought about Brexit's arrow pointing to the box. Absolubte genius.
>
> >
>
> > >
>
> >
>
> > > Yes it's a lot cleverer than I had realised. That complaint might have some merit.
>
> >
>
> >
>
> >
>
> > I've missed the start of this. What is the issue?
>
> >
>
> > The Brexit Party logo is a circle with a bold arrow pointing to the right, to the exit, or to where people vote on a ballot paper....
>
>
>
> Thanks. Is that controversial?
>
> A Psychologist (#FBPE) has complained to the Electoral Commission that it is subliminally directing people to where to vote.
>
> https://twitter.com/RichardBentall/status/1126220171922870272
>
>
>
> Its fair to say the responses to his tweet aren't entirely sympathetic.....
Smart choice of logo.
> > @Mysticrose said:
> > > @brokenwheel said:
> > > > @Scott_P said:
> > > > https://twitter.com/dhothersall/status/1126409263998435328
> > >
> > >
> > >
> > > Is anyone outraged by "bollocks"? Do they also find "bum" and "knickers" unacceptable? This seems to be making an unsustainable claim to edginess, as if it said "F-- May, f-- Rees Mogg and above all f-- that utter c-- Farage."
> > >
> > > For me it just seems immature. I guess that’s not necessarily a bad thing if you are targeting younger voters, but it’s a risky strategy.
> >
> > It's bloody great publicity.
> >
> > And no one, repeat no one, gives a shit about the word 'bollocks.'
> >
> > Apart from OfCom. Obvs.
>
> The real outrage here is the Lib Dems still using the word "democrat" in their name.
Using that analogy after a GE the other parties should just not bother turning up at the Commons . Why bother opposing , the people have spoken ! People are allowed to disagree . The so called Leavers for more sovereignty really just want a dictatorship.
Some cunning symbols include the FedEx arrow and the A-Z smiley face for Amazon. It's nothing new. Most watches are advertised with the hands at 10 and 2 so they appear like a smile rather than a frown.
But it's hard to imagine pro-EU types will suddenly be brainwashed into backing Farage because of an arrow.
> > @CarlottaVance said:
> > > @CarlottaVance said:
> >
> > > > @glw said:
> >
> > >
> >
> > > > Never thought about Brexit's arrow pointing to the box. Absolubte genius.
> >
> > >
> >
> > > >
> >
> > >
> >
> > > > Yes it's a lot cleverer than I had realised. That complaint might have some merit.
> >
> > >
> >
> > >
> >
> > >
> >
> > > I've missed the start of this. What is the issue?
> >
> > >
> >
> > > The Brexit Party logo is a circle with a bold arrow pointing to the right, to the exit, or to where people vote on a ballot paper....
> >
> >
> >
> > Thanks. Is that controversial?
> >
> > A Psychologist (#FBPE) has complained to the Electoral Commission that it is subliminally directing people to where to vote.
> >
> > https://twitter.com/RichardBentall/status/1126220171922870272
> >
> >
> >
> > Its fair to say the responses to his tweet aren't entirely sympathetic.....
>
> Smart choice of logo.
Looks like a pissed chinaman, lying on his side
https://twitter.com/alexwickham/status/1125784762143191040
> I think George Bush I said that he said "in deep doo doo" because you can't say "shit" on prime time tv.
What is socially acceptable changes over time.
> > @Ishmael_Z said:
> > I think George Bush I said that he said "in deep doo doo" because you can't say "shit" on prime time tv.
>
> What is socially acceptable changes over time.
Indeed. It seems bizarre that there was a time when you couldn't say 'bloody' on TV but you could use the N word.
A party of all the talents. I've got stomache cramps
He must be the world's greatest numpty if he didn't understand the implications of his tweet.
https://www.bbc.co.uk/news/entertainment-arts-48212693
> > @Cyclefree said:
> > > @williamglenn said:
> >
> > > https://twitter.com/bbcr4today/status/1126402756993081346
> >
> Incidentally, Ann W is really not looking very well.
Looking like Michael Jackson. Matter of taste as to whether that appeals.
> ....McVey Leadsom Stewart.
>
>
>
> A party of all the talents. I've got stomache cramps
>
> We can write off McVey as she appears to be childless.
I don't think we can, May is also childless and won the last contest. Unless you're sticking your own prejudices into an apparent betting post ?
> Cluless Corbyn still pushing his we are the party to unite the country guff . And to say the country isn’t split across Remain and Leave , really what planet is he on .
>
> All Remainers need to ditch Labour , get behind the Lib Dems .
Not many of them will want to support the Tories' Little Helpers!
> > @Ishmael_Z said:
>
> > ....McVey Leadsom Stewart.
>
> >
>
> >
>
> >
>
> > A party of all the talents. I've got stomache cramps
>
> >
>
> > We can write off McVey as she appears to be childless.
>
>
>
> I don't think we can, May is also childless and won the last contest. Unless you're sticking your own prejudices into an apparent betting post ?
>
> Sorry, tedious joke at the expense of Leadsom. I will fire myself pronto.
Hah, sorry too subtle for me
> > @nico67 said:
> > Cluless Corbyn still pushing his we are the party to unite the country guff . And to say the country isn’t split across Remain and Leave , really what planet is he on .
> >
> > All Remainers need to ditch Labour , get behind the Lib Dems .
>
> Not many of them will want to support the Tories' Little Helpers!
Time to move on . Yes they made a mistake but for the EU elections Remainers need to ditch Labour.
> My postal vote has not arrived. Hmmm....
>
> Incidentally, I only applied for a postal vote in 2016 because I would be out of the country for the referendum and I very clearly remember saying that I only wanted it for the referendum not for ever. Despite that they keep on giving it to me? How do I cancel it?
Contact the Electoral Registration Office , though they may ask you to confirm in writing.
> Danny Baker fired by BBC over royal baby chimp tweet, speaking of what's acceptable.
>
> He must be the world's greatest numpty if he didn't understand the implications of his tweet.
> https://www.bbc.co.uk/news/entertainment-arts-48212693
>
> There's a lot not to like about this. I took his explanation at face value. Not his job to police anyone else's racist thoughts.
Peter Reid and Dubya popped up in my head first.
I just don't recognize circus animals getting dressed up as a meme, and I don't see that Archie was dressed differently from any other 1 day old.
*there is a lot of revisionism about whether he really did make a twat of himself.
> Danny Baker fired by BBC over royal baby chimp tweet, speaking of what's acceptable.
>
> He must be the world's greatest numpty if he didn't understand the implications of his tweet.
>
> https://www.bbc.co.uk/news/entertainment-arts-48212693
Hasnt he previously been sacked twice before by the bbc?
But I do get the outrage.
> > @justin124 said:
> > > @nico67 said:
> > > Cluless Corbyn still pushing his we are the party to unite the country guff . And to say the country isn’t split across Remain and Leave , really what planet is he on .
> > >
> > > All Remainers need to ditch Labour , get behind the Lib Dems .
> >
> > Not many of them will want to support the Tories' Little Helpers!
>
> Time to move on . Yes they made a mistake but for the EU elections Remainers need to ditch Labour.
No- they still deserved to be punished for the misery they helped bring to millions. Any Labour member coming out advocating support should face expulsion.
> > @nico67 said:
> > > @justin124 said:
> > > > @nico67 said:
> > > > Cluless Corbyn still pushing his we are the party to unite the country guff . And to say the country isn’t split across Remain and Leave , really what planet is he on .
> > > >
> > > > All Remainers need to ditch Labour , get behind the Lib Dems .
> > >
> > > Not many of them will want to support the Tories' Little Helpers!
> >
> > Time to move on . Yes they made a mistake but for the EU elections Remainers need to ditch Labour.
>
> No they still deserved to be punished for the misery they helped bring to millions. Any Labour member coming out advocating support should face expulsion.
I’m not a member just a voter . Needs must , I will vote to ensure Labour gets the message , get off the fence or see Remainers desert the party .
"Um, well, we still want Brexit and want to respect the original referendum result, but not this damaging Tory Brexit but a brilliant amazing Labour Brexit, so you should vote Remain just now? We think? So that we can get better Brexit for you in the future, maybe? Or maybe just don't vote at all just now and we'll just all wait till the Tories implode, or something? [mumble mumble walks away]"
> > @nico67 said:
> > Cluless Corbyn still pushing his we are the party to unite the country guff . And to say the country isn’t split across Remain and Leave , really what planet is he on .
> >
> > All Remainers need to ditch Labour , get behind the Lib Dems .
>
> Not many of them will want to support the Tories' Little Helpers!
That argument has a limited life-span and the locals suggested that we might be coming to the end of it.
It's only four years since the end of the Coalition and the man who trebled tuition fees is still leader of the Lib Dems but the reality is that that issue is long gone as a driving force - the 18-year old students starting at university this September were at primary school when the Lib Dems ratted on their election promise - and Brexit and Corbyn have driven revolutions in voting behaviour, not least in that the gap between the Lib Dems and Tories is massively wider now than in 2010 and the prospect of a repeat of the Rose Garden love-in is vanishingly remote and, hence, not really credible as a scare tactic.
> Yes on reflection, the bigger picture (literally) is a bad one and that was a bad thing. But I do still believe that Baker hasn't a racist bone in his body and was looking quickly for something to sum up the absurd (in his eyes) pomp and ceremony of a royal baby.
>
> But I do get the outrage.
It really is best to avoid all simian references when discussing matters involving black people.
I remember Roy Hodgson when England manager, half time team talk, Andros Townsend having a blinder, Roy urging his teammates to try and give him plenty of the ball.
"Look, let's keep it simple," he said. "Just feed the monkey."
Could have been a lot worse for him than it was. Luckily, Roy is so obviously not at all racist, the players knew that, no offence taken.
But far preferable to have said, "Just feed Andros."
If an animal term had to be used, for whatever reason, go with something like 'duck' or 'pigeon'.
> > @TOPPING said:
>
> > Yes on reflection, the bigger picture (literally) is a bad one and that was a bad thing. But I do still believe that Baker hasn't a racist bone in his body and was looking quickly for something to sum up the absurd (in his eyes) pomp and ceremony of a royal baby.
> >
> > But I do get the outrage.
>
> It really is best to avoid all simian references when discussing matters involving black people.
>
> I remember Roy Hodgson when England manager, half time team talk, Andros Townsend having a blinder, Roy urging his teammates to try and give him plenty of the ball.
>
> "Look, let's keep it simple," he said. "Just feed the monkey."
>
> Could have been a lot worse for him than it was. Luckily, Roy is so obviously not at all racist, the players knew that, no offence taken.
>
> But far preferable to have said, "Just feed Andros."
>
> If an animal term had to be used, for whatever reason, go with something like 'duck' or 'pigeon'.
https://youtu.be/RAXbrXAgvWU
> If you wanted 3 options it might actually be cleaner to add a 4th, ie
>
> Semi-finals:
> 1) Leave group - Deal vs No-Deal
> 2) Remain group - David Cameron's Renegotiation vs David Cameron is a massive fucking bell-end
>
> Finals:
> Winner of (1) vs Winner of (2)
>
> The advantage of that is that otherwise you have this whole can of worms about how much funding and media time each side gets.
If the Electoral Commission had put "David Cameron is a massive fucking bell-end but remain in the EU anyway" on the ballot paper, I'm pretty sure Remain would have romped home.
> > @kyf_100 said:
> > > @Mysticrose said:
> > > > @brokenwheel said:
> > > > > @Scott_P said:
> > > > > https://twitter.com/dhothersall/status/1126409263998435328
> > > >
> > > >
> > > >
> > > > Is anyone outraged by "bollocks"? Do they also find "bum" and "knickers" unacceptable? This seems to be making an unsustainable claim to edginess, as if it said "F-- May, f-- Rees Mogg and above all f-- that utter c-- Farage."
> > > >
> > > > For me it just seems immature. I guess that’s not necessarily a bad thing if you are targeting younger voters, but it’s a risky strategy.
> > >
> > > It's bloody great publicity.
> > >
> > > And no one, repeat no one, gives a shit about the word 'bollocks.'
> > >
> > > Apart from OfCom. Obvs.
> >
> > The real outrage here is the Lib Dems still using the word "democrat" in their name.
>
> Using that analogy after a GE the other parties should just not bother turning up at the Commons . Why bother opposing , the people have spoken ! People are allowed to disagree . The so called Leavers for more sovereignty really just want a dictatorship.
Not really. The equivalent would be after a general election, the previous government carrying on in office.
The fifth and final stage in any democratic process is implementing the result.
> > @justin124 said:
> > > @nico67 said:
> > > Cluless Corbyn still pushing his we are the party to unite the country guff . And to say the country isn’t split across Remain and Leave , really what planet is he on .
> > >
> > > All Remainers need to ditch Labour , get behind the Lib Dems .
> >
> > Not many of them will want to support the Tories' Little Helpers!
>
> That argument has a limited life-span and the locals suggested that we might be coming to the end of it.
>
> It's only four years since the end of the Coalition and the man who trebled tuition fees is still leader of the Lib Dems but the reality is that that issue is long gone as a driving force - the 18-year old students starting at university this September were at primary school when the Lib Dems ratted on their election promise - and Brexit and Corbyn have driven revolutions in voting behaviour, not least in that the gap between the Lib Dems and Tories is massively wider now than in 2010 and the prospect of a repeat of the Rose Garden love-in is vanishingly remote and, hence, not really credible as a scare tactic.
But the gap between Cameron and Clegg appeared pretty big in 2010 with Cable also was much closer to Darling in policy terms than to Osborne. In the end, that did not prevent them going along with the Austerity programme . Voters will need to be reminded that the 'LibDems are not to be trusted' but I suspect it will remain quite a potent weapon in Labour's armoury.
> > @nico67 said:
> > > @justin124 said:
> > > > @nico67 said:
> > > > Cluless Corbyn still pushing his we are the party to unite the country guff . And to say the country isn’t split across Remain and Leave , really what planet is he on .
> > > >
> > > > All Remainers need to ditch Labour , get behind the Lib Dems .
> > >
> > > Not many of them will want to support the Tories' Little Helpers!
> >
> > Time to move on . Yes they made a mistake but for the EU elections Remainers need to ditch Labour.
>
> No- they still deserved to be punished for the misery they helped bring to millions. Any Labour member coming out advocating support should face expulsion.
I expect many would be pleased to leave labour with their non position on Brexit and Maduro admiring leader
> > @edmundintokyo said:
> > If you wanted 3 options it might actually be cleaner to add a 4th, ie
> >
> > Semi-finals:
> > 1) Leave group - Deal vs No-Deal
> > 2) Remain group - David Cameron's Renegotiation vs David Cameron is a massive fucking bell-end
> >
> > Finals:
> > Winner of (1) vs Winner of (2)
> >
> > The advantage of that is that otherwise you have this whole can of worms about how much funding and media time each side gets.
>
> If the Electoral Commission had put "David Cameron is a massive fucking bell-end but remain in the EU anyway" on the ballot paper, I'm pretty sure Remain would have romped home.
If Cameron had said that he would resign on the Friday morning regardless of the result then Remain might well have won. As it was, we got the chance to wipe the smile off his face.
This is utter crap.
Greens predicted to hold no seats if no one votes tactically (i.e. the status quo), despite the fact they have three already (two of which they have held since PR was introduced in 1999).
> https://youtu.be/RAXbrXAgvWU
Political Correctness gorrrn mad!
Although, TBH, I am a big fan of the sort of PC that has rendered insidiously racist and sexist language something to be offended by rather than accepted as normal.
The PC that I find dangerous is the sort that enforces group-think and prevents issues being discussed properly - which is something you see on occasions on both sides of politics, left and right.
> https://www.remainunited.org/be-tactical/
>
> This is utter crap.
>
> Greens predicted to hold no seats if no one votes tactically (i.e. the status quo), despite the fact they have three already (two of which they have held since PR was introduced in 1999).
>
It looks like it was knocked up in about 20 minutes. And half the time when I click a link I get a server error.
> > @justin124 said:
> > > @nico67 said:
> > > Cluless Corbyn still pushing his we are the party to unite the country guff . And to say the country isn’t split across Remain and Leave , really what planet is he on .
> > >
> > > All Remainers need to ditch Labour , get behind the Lib Dems .
> >
> > Not many of them will want to support the Tories' Little Helpers!
>
> That argument has a limited life-span and the locals suggested that we might be coming to the end of it.
>
> It's only four years since the end of the Coalition and the man who trebled tuition fees is still leader of the Lib Dems but the reality is that that issue is long gone as a driving force - the 18-year old students starting at university this September were at primary school when the Lib Dems ratted on their election promise - and Brexit and Corbyn have driven revolutions in voting behaviour, not least in that the gap between the Lib Dems and Tories is massively wider now than in 2010 and the prospect of a repeat of the Rose Garden love-in is vanishingly remote and, hence, not really credible as a scare tactic.
If Labour Remainers want to abandon Corbyn in the Euro elections for an unequivocal party of Remain, then they have 3 choices: Lib Dems, Greens or CHUK.
Of those three, why on earth in a PR based election should they choose the party which was complicit in ushering in a a period of Conservative austerity, sustained that programme for a full 5 year parliament and is still led by a former Secretary of State from that Government?
Memories will take a long time to fade. As time passes, the number of students suffering under the punitive tuition fees regime originally brought in by Cable is only growing, as is the number of former students now paying those fees back in real deductions from their take home pay and receiving annual statements reminding them that those huge debts will be there to repay for pretty well the rest of their working lives.
> https://www.remainunited.org/be-tactical/
>
> This is utter crap.
>
> Greens predicted to hold no seats if no one votes tactically (i.e. the status quo), despite the fact they have three already (two of which they have held since PR was introduced in 1999).
>
Reminds me of the SNPOut # on twitter which was 90% Tories.
> https://www.remainunited.org/be-tactical/
>
> This is utter crap.
>
> Greens predicted to hold no seats if no one votes tactically (i.e. the status quo), despite the fact they have three already (two of which they have held since PR was introduced in 1999).
>
Indeed it is crap. A load of bollocks to try and dupe people into voting LibDem.
Why should Green voters switch to the LibDems when their preferred party beat the LibDems last time, has sitting MEPs and came close to winning seats in other regions.
And if you are a Green / environmentalist / eco-socialist / etc. that is why you vote for the Green Party - the LibDems offer none of that ideology.
> > @rottenborough said:
> > https://www.remainunited.org/be-tactical/
> >
> > This is utter crap.
> >
> > Greens predicted to hold no seats if no one votes tactically (i.e. the status quo), despite the fact they have three already (two of which they have held since PR was introduced in 1999).
> >
>
> It looks like it was knocked up in about 20 minutes. And half the time when I click a link I get a server error.
Bizarre. Gina Miller is just as likely to cock it up for Remain as to help unless she has detailed knowledge of likely voting behaviour which no opinion poll could hope to produce. Don't think she understands the voting system..
https://twitter.com/ArtfulButler/status/1126438476147245056
> > @david_herdson said:
> > > @justin124 said:
> > > > @nico67 said:
> > > > Cluless Corbyn still pushing his we are the party to unite the country guff . And to say the country isn’t split across Remain and Leave , really what planet is he on .
> > > >
> > > > All Remainers need to ditch Labour , get behind the Lib Dems .
> > >
> > > Not many of them will want to support the Tories' Little Helpers!
> >
> > That argument has a limited life-span and the locals suggested that we might be coming to the end of it.
> >
> > It's only four years since the end of the Coalition and the man who trebled tuition fees is still leader of the Lib Dems but the reality is that that issue is long gone as a driving force - the 18-year old students starting at university this September were at primary school when the Lib Dems ratted on their election promise - and Brexit and Corbyn have driven revolutions in voting behaviour, not least in that the gap between the Lib Dems and Tories is massively wider now than in 2010 and the prospect of a repeat of the Rose Garden love-in is vanishingly remote and, hence, not really credible as a scare tactic.
>
> If Labour Remainers want to abandon Corbyn in the Euro elections for an unequivocal party of Remain, then they have 3 choices: Lib Dems, Greens or CHUK.
>
> Of those three, why on earth in a PR based election should they choose the party which was complicit in ushering in a a period of Conservative austerity, sustained that programme for a full 5 year parliament and is still led by a former Secretary of State from that Government?
>
> Memories will take a long time to fade. As time passes, the number of students suffering under the punitive tuition fees regime originally brought in by Cable is only growing, as is the number of former students now paying those fees back in real deductions from their take home pay and receiving annual statements reminding them that those huge debts will be there to repay for pretty well the rest of their working lives.
----------------------
Anecdotal evidence from doorstep campaigning in London is that Labour remain voters are considering switching to Lib Dem or Greens for Euros. Change UK has little profile and rarely mentioned.
> Mr. Rentool, anyone voting for that reason (in support for or opposition to Cameron) was a damned fool.
What are you suggesting????
Anyway, it wasn't my primary reason, merely the icing on the cake.
If it were just an added bonus, either way, then fine.
But if it's the determining factor in casting a vote, then letting a short-term tactical result dictate your strategic position is bloody stupid.
> Brokenshire in the Commons justifying why the taxpayer is bailing out fatcat freeholders.
Grenfell related ?
Private owners not moving fast enough so Gov't will pay I heard on the wireless this morning. Well if the Gov't is going to ultimately cough up, the freeholders won't move will they !
Takeaway faces council probe after introducing 'AARDVARK pizza' to its menu
https://www.dailymail.co.uk/news/article-7009983/Kilmarnock-takeaway-Indian-Accent-Scotland-serves-aardvark-pizza.html
The child points at him and says "you're a monkey".
After a moment, the mother reprimands the child gently and says to it "No. You're a monkey."
True story.
> > @Wulfrun_Phil said:
> > > @david_herdson said:
> > > > @justin124 said:
> > > > > @nico67 said:
> > > > > Cluless Corbyn still pushing his we are the party to unite the country guff . And to say the country isn’t split across Remain and Leave , really what planet is he on .
> > > > >
> > > > > All Remainers need to ditch Labour , get behind the Lib Dems .
> > > >
> > > > Not many of them will want to support the Tories' Little Helpers!
> > >
> > > That argument has a limited life-span and the locals suggested that we might be coming to the end of it.
> > >
> > > It's only four years since the end of the Coalition and the man who trebled tuition fees is still leader of the Lib Dems but the reality is that that issue is long gone as a driving force - the 18-year old students starting at university this September were at primary school when the Lib Dems ratted on their election promise - and Brexit and Corbyn have driven revolutions in voting behaviour, not least in that the gap between the Lib Dems and Tories is massively wider now than in 2010 and the prospect of a repeat of the Rose Garden love-in is vanishingly remote and, hence, not really credible as a scare tactic.
> >
> > If Labour Remainers want to abandon Corbyn in the Euro elections for an unequivocal party of Remain, then they have 3 choices: Lib Dems, Greens or CHUK.
> >
> > Of those three, why on earth in a PR based election should they choose the party which was complicit in ushering in a a period of Conservative austerity, sustained that programme for a full 5 year parliament and is still led by a former Secretary of State from that Government?
> >
> > Memories will take a long time to fade. As time passes, the number of students suffering under the punitive tuition fees regime originally brought in by Cable is only growing, as is the number of former students now paying those fees back in real deductions from their take home pay and receiving annual statements reminding them that those huge debts will be there to repay for pretty well the rest of their working lives.
>
> ----------------------
>
> Anecdotal evidence from doorstep campaigning in London is that Labour remain voters are considering switching to Lib Dem or Greens for Euros. Change UK has little profile and rarely mentioned.
Remainers have to accept that the BP is odds on to top the EU elections . I would of course had wanted Labour to beat them but a vote for Labour now is a vote for Brexit.
The only way to a second vote is to get Labour to support that unequivocally and that only happens if they see huge losses driven by Remainers .
> Yes on reflection, the bigger picture (literally) is a bad one and that was a bad thing. But I do still believe that Baker hasn't a racist bone in his body and was looking quickly for something to sum up the absurd (in his eyes) pomp and ceremony of a royal baby.
>
> But I do get the outrage.
>
> Exactly, he regularly post funny old photos on Twitter, occasionally mocks royals and other posh people, and derides media hype of all sorts. I can honestly say I have never heard or read anything by Baker that I would consider racist. So essentially he's been fired for the perception rather than any intent on his part.
His defence seems to be that he was trying to be quite offensive in a PC way (implying the Royals are thicko performers) and ended up being spectacularly offensive in a very un-PC way (implying he is a thicko peformer). Life-threatening levels of irony.
> > @rottenborough said:
> > https://www.remainunited.org/be-tactical/
> >
> > This is utter crap.
> >
> > Greens predicted to hold no seats if no one votes tactically (i.e. the status quo), despite the fact they have three already (two of which they have held since PR was introduced in 1999).
> >
>
> Indeed it is crap. A load of bollocks to try and dupe people into voting LibDem.
>
> Why should Green voters switch to the LibDems when their preferred party beat the LibDems last time, has sitting MEPs and came close to winning seats in other regions.
>
> And if you are a Green / environmentalist / eco-socialist / etc. that is why you vote for the Green Party - the LibDems offer none of that ideology.
I agree that in a PR election the motivation is less; and that people may well have other, stronger, genuine reasons for voting Green than to remain in the EU.
However... for those committed to Remain above all, there will be a stronger narrative if a single entity has a stronger voice. On the other side, Farage looks like hoovering up from BNP-Lite, but the Remainers are far more evenly split.
But this looks like a poor way of achieving either maximum Remain seats or a strong single voice though.. not least as there are virtually no existing seats held by these parties anyway.
Combining forces in Peterborough, or a more thought-out tactical voting strategy ahead of a GE, might bear more fruit...
I assume you are doing a Fermat, in the sense that there is not enough space in this margin to expound the true and inoffensive version of the tweet. Or perhaps you are pushed for time.
> Forgot Pineapple on your pizza....
>
> Takeaway faces council probe after introducing 'AARDVARK pizza' to its menu
>
> https://www.dailymail.co.uk/news/article-7009983/Kilmarnock-takeaway-Indian-Accent-Scotland-serves-aardvark-pizza.html
It's only a matter of time until the aardvark and pineapple pizza combo topping...
> > @FrancisUrquhart said:
> > Forgot Pineapple on your pizza....
> >
> > Takeaway faces council probe after introducing 'AARDVARK pizza' to its menu
> >
> > https://www.dailymail.co.uk/news/article-7009983/Kilmarnock-takeaway-Indian-Accent-Scotland-serves-aardvark-pizza.html
>
> It's only a matter of time until the aardvark and pineapple pizza combo topping...
Its what May should be forced to eat until she agrees to leave #10. Hopefully that would hurry up her departure.
> > @FrancisUrquhart said:
> > Forgot Pineapple on your pizza....
> >
> > Takeaway faces council probe after introducing 'AARDVARK pizza' to its menu
> >
> > https://www.dailymail.co.uk/news/article-7009983/Kilmarnock-takeaway-Indian-Accent-Scotland-serves-aardvark-pizza.html
>
> It's only a matter of time until the aardvark and pineapple pizza combo topping...
As "Aardvark" is literally "Ground pig" in Afrikaans, presumably they just mean it's made with pork mince?
Looks like this is happening?
> Yes on reflection, the bigger picture (literally) is a bad one and that was a bad thing. But I do still believe that Baker hasn't a racist bone in his body and was looking quickly for something to sum up the absurd (in his eyes) pomp and ceremony of a royal baby.
>
> But I do get the outrage.
>
> Exactly, he regularly post funny old photos on Twitter, occasionally mocks royals and other posh people, and derides media hype of all sorts. I can honestly say I have never heard or read anything by Baker that I would consider racist. So essentially he's been fired for the perception rather than any intent on his part.
I think it's stronger than "perception" - it's a lack of awareness.
It's the same with antisemitism. In at least some cases, I'm happy to accept that there's no ill-intent in "global elite" (etc) tweets - but that won't and shouldn't stop people calling out the historic misuse of such phrases.
I'm not entirely convinced he needed firing, but the genius and problem of Danny Baker is that he doesn't know when to STFU. 95 per cent of the time it makes a good line on the radio. The rest, not so much.
> > @SandyRentool said:
> > > @rottenborough said:
> > > https://www.remainunited.org/be-tactical/
> > >
> > > This is utter crap.
> > >
> > > Greens predicted to hold no seats if no one votes tactically (i.e. the status quo), despite the fact they have three already (two of which they have held since PR was introduced in 1999).
> > >
> >
> > Indeed it is crap. A load of bollocks to try and dupe people into voting LibDem.
> >
> > Why should Green voters switch to the LibDems when their preferred party beat the LibDems last time, has sitting MEPs and came close to winning seats in other regions.
> >
> > And if you are a Green / environmentalist / eco-socialist / etc. that is why you vote for the Green Party - the LibDems offer none of that ideology.
>
> I agree that in a PR election the motivation is less; and that people may well have other, stronger, genuine reasons for voting Green than to remain in the EU.
>
> However... for those committed to Remain above all, there will be a stronger narrative if a single entity has a stronger voice. On the other side, Farage looks like hoovering up from BNP-Lite, but the Remainers are far more evenly split.
>
> But this looks like a poor way of achieving either maximum Remain seats or a strong single voice though.. not least as there are virtually no existing seats held by these parties anyway.
>
> Combining forces in Peterborough, or a more thought-out tactical voting strategy ahead of a GE, might bear more fruit...
Maybe not even in Peterborough. I'd have thought a strong, credible, United remain candidate would drain the life out of Labour and help Brexit to win. Disappearing without trace might be the best strategy but not one they will be inclined to follow.
> What about aardwolf pizza topppings?
Aardman pizza toppings tend to be a bit plasticy tasting.
> Hammond saying Tory leadership election must "conclude" as quickly as possible?
>
> Looks like this is happening?
Blimey. May's lost Hammond ?
Surely she can't go on much longer !
> > @williamglenn said:
>
> > https://twitter.com/bbcr4today/status/1126402756993081346
>
>
>
>
>
> Daft old bat.
>
> It is so offensive to those who really lived in an unfree country and to those who fought to free them. Britain is a free country. The EU is not some totalitarian dictator.
>
> It’s not just hyperbole; it really is disgusting to make outrageously untrue statements like that. There are many parts of Europe which really knew what it is like to be unfree. Britain, thank God, was not and is not one of those countries. Politicians here ought to remember that.
>
> Brexiteers lie compulsively. Because they can. Because the media doesn’t pull them up on it, doesn’t have the ability to forensically question. Because their core vote is the ignorant and reactionary.
This site has become a good place for Remainers to talk crap to each other.
BTW, how would this tweet be interpreted if Nigel Farage, JRM or Christopher Chope had been the author? Would Danny Baker's friends be rushing to place a banter like gloss on it? And would Baker himself think that only diseased minds saw anything wrong in it?
To me the point of the picture is that the media aren't interested in the child, a monkey in a suit would suffice, they are only interested because he's royal, and so you end up with the absurb hyperbole and extensive coverage about what is ultimately a relatively trivial event. That's what Baker's poking fun at, not the ethnicity of the child.
Of course if you know nothing about Baker and see the image retwetted and are looking to be offended, or to be so on behalf of others, you can construe a racist meaning even though that was not the intent.
> Yes on reflection, the bigger picture (literally) is a bad one and that was a bad thing. But I do still believe that Baker hasn't a racist bone in his body and was looking quickly for something to sum up the absurd (in his eyes) pomp and ceremony of a royal baby.
>
> But I do get the outrage.
>
> Exactly, he regularly post funny old photos on Twitter, occasionally mocks royals and other posh people, and derides media hype of all sorts. I can honestly say I have never heard or read anything by Baker that I would consider racist. So essentially he's been fired for the perception rather than any intent on his part.
>
> If the tweet could be taken in two ways, one of which was offensive, I would agree. It may be a limitation on my part, but I honestly don't see an inoffensive point to it at all.
>
> I don't think there's any inoffensive way of reading a public tweet about any baby being a primate. This isn't some private family in-joke. Babies are not gifted to us to be demeaned or ridiculed.
>
> BTW, how would this tweet be interpreted if Nigel Farage, JRM or Christopher Chope had been the author? Would Danny Baker's friends be rushing to place a banter like gloss on it? And would Baker himself think that only diseased minds saw anything wrong in it?
I love that he genuinely applied the "Takes one to know one" argument
> Hammond saying Tory leadership election must "conclude" as quickly as possible?
>
> Looks like this is happening?
He did not say May should go now though
> Hammond saying Tory leadership election must "conclude" as quickly as possible?
>
> Looks like this is happening?
I am content for it to happen anytime from now but it must be a proper campaign with candidate hustings, fully televised, and then two sent on to the members for confirmation
I expect many and varied candidates will enter the fray and hopefully someone will storm through and possible entirely unexpectedly
TM has done her best to square the circle but time for her to allow the campaign, remaining as caretaker PM until her successor is appointed by the party
> Danny Baker fired by BBC over royal baby chimp tweet, speaking of what's acceptable.
>
> He must be the world's greatest numpty if he didn't understand the implications of his tweet.
> https://www.bbc.co.uk/news/entertainment-arts-48212693
>
> There's a lot not to like about this. I took his explanation at face value. Not his job to police anyone else's racist thoughts.
>
> My immediate associations were Bishop Wilberforce making a twat of himself in the 1860 debate with Huxley* with the "descended from monkeys" attack, and "If you could see her through my eyes" from Cabaret. Neither is a good look.
> I just don't recognize circus animals getting dressed up as a meme, and I don't see that Archie was dressed differently from any other 1 day old.
>
> *there is a lot of revisionism about whether he really did make a twat of himself.
>
> Yes on reflection, the bigger picture (literally) is a bad one and that was a bad thing. But I do still believe that Baker hasn't a racist bone in his body and was looking quickly for something to sum up the absurd (in his eyes) pomp and ceremony of a royal baby.
>
> But I do get the outrage.
It also further shows what good PR it was for the royals to get Meghan into the family, they now get the PC vote with the new baby as well as the traditional patriotism vote behind the monarchy
> Brokenshire in the Commons justifying why the taxpayer is bailing out fatcat freeholders.
Ah, at last someone remembers what proper Toryism is all about.
> If the tweet could be taken in two ways, one of which was offensive, I would agree. It may be a limitation on my part, but I honestly don't see an inoffensive point to it at all.
>
> It is a limitation on your part.
>
> Fair enough.
>
> I assume you are doing a Fermat, in the sense that there is not enough space in this margin to expound the true and inoffensive version of the tweet. Or perhaps you are pushed for time.
>
> You would have to follow him on Twitter to see the sort of pictures he posts, or listen to him, or read his books. He's mocking the royals, and the media obsession with the royals.
>
> To me the point of the picture is that the media aren't interested in the child, a monkey in a suit would suffice, they are only interested because he's royal, and so you end up with the absurb hyperbole and extensive coverage about what is ultimately a relatively trivial event. That's what Baker's poking fun at, not the ethnicity of the child.
>
> Of course if you know nothing about Baker and see the image retwetted and are looking to be offended, or to be so on behalf of others, you can construe a racist meaning even though that was not the intent.
I am not looking to be offended, I have never heard of Mr Baker until today, and you are pushing the "out of context" defence beyond its limits.
That people should shut up and stop talking about it?
And will anyone actually DO something? Like resign if May doesn't go? Because there is a lot of piss and wind about at the moment.
If something is going to happen (GE, 2nd Ref, leadership contest) it needs to happen NOW (In the month of May) as once we get to June, it's... oh my, is that the time. Summer hols for eight weeks, then back for Conferences in September and oh my, it's 9th October. Wasn't there something we had to do later this month?
> > @anothernick said:
> > > @Wulfrun_Phil said:
> > > > @david_herdson said:
> > > > > @justin124 said:
> > > > > > @nico67 said:
> > > > > > Cluless Corbyn still pushing his we are the party to unite the country guff . And to say the country isn’t split across Remain and Leave , really what planet is he on .
> > > > > >
> > > > > > All Remainers need to ditch Labour , get behind the Lib Dems .
> > > > >
> > > > > Not many of them will want to support the Tories' Little Helpers!
> > > >
> > > > That argument has a limited life-span and the locals suggested that we might be coming to the end of it.
> > > >
> > > > It's only four years since the end of the Coalition and the man who trebled tuition fees is still leader of the Lib Dems but the reality is that that issue is long gone as a driving force - the 18-year old students starting at university this September were at primary school when the Lib Dems ratted on their election promise - and Brexit and Corbyn have driven revolutions in voting behaviour, not least in that the gap between the Lib Dems and Tories is massively wider now than in 2010 and the prospect of a repeat of the Rose Garden love-in is vanishingly remote and, hence, not really credible as a scare tactic.
> > >
> > > If Labour Remainers want to abandon Corbyn in the Euro elections for an unequivocal party of Remain, then they have 3 choices: Lib Dems, Greens or CHUK.
> > >
> > > Of those three, why on earth in a PR based election should they choose the party which was complicit in ushering in a a period of Conservative austerity, sustained that programme for a full 5 year parliament and is still led by a former Secretary of State from that Government?
> > >
> > > Memories will take a long time to fade. As time passes, the number of students suffering under the punitive tuition fees regime originally brought in by Cable is only growing, as is the number of former students now paying those fees back in real deductions from their take home pay and receiving annual statements reminding them that those huge debts will be there to repay for pretty well the rest of their working lives.
> >
> > ----------------------
> >
> > Anecdotal evidence from doorstep campaigning in London is that Labour remain voters are considering switching to Lib Dem or Greens for Euros. Change UK has little profile and rarely mentioned.
>
> Remainers have to accept that the BP is odds on to top the EU elections . I would of course had wanted Labour to beat them but a vote for Labour now is a vote for Brexit.
>
> The only way to a second vote is to get Labour to support that unequivocally and that only happens if they see huge losses driven by Remainers .
People do not take the EU elections seriously - indeed many see them in a frivolous light. Turnout could well be lower than for the Local Elections last week.
>
> It also further shows what good PR it was for the royals to get Meghan into the family, they now get the PC vote with the new baby as well as the traditional patriotism vote behind the monarchy
If they were up for election, that is. And who knows, perhaps one day they will be.
They don't usually sit on Friday. They have another bank holiday later this month, and whilst not technically off, half of them will bugger off for half term. Summer is a nice long lazy six (Seven?) weeks off, and then back for a week (four days) in September (yawn, feel a bit tired after all that rest) before they go off again for a month during conferences.
Someone tell me I'm wrong, and we really have loads of Parliamentary time left to sort out Brexit, because I'm not seeing it.
> > @TOPPING said:
> > Danny Baker fired by BBC over royal baby chimp tweet, speaking of what's acceptable.
> >
> > He must be the world's greatest numpty if he didn't understand the implications of his tweet.
> > https://www.bbc.co.uk/news/entertainment-arts-48212693
> >
> > There's a lot not to like about this. I took his explanation at face value. Not his job to police anyone else's racist thoughts.
> >
> > My immediate associations were Bishop Wilberforce making a twat of himself in the 1860 debate with Huxley* with the "descended from monkeys" attack, and "If you could see her through my eyes" from Cabaret. Neither is a good look.
> > I just don't recognize circus animals getting dressed up as a meme, and I don't see that Archie was dressed differently from any other 1 day old.
> >
> > *there is a lot of revisionism about whether he really did make a twat of himself.
> >
> > Yes on reflection, the bigger picture (literally) is a bad one and that was a bad thing. But I do still believe that Baker hasn't a racist bone in his body and was looking quickly for something to sum up the absurd (in his eyes) pomp and ceremony of a royal baby.
> >
> > But I do get the outrage.
>
> It also further shows what good PR it was for the royals to get Meghan into the family, they now get the PC vote with the new baby as well as the traditional patriotism vote behind the monarchy
We get to have a vote on them now? Breaking news!