fitalass If Miliband leads the largest party in 2015 he will be PM regardless and Ed Balls Chancellor. If Miliband loses, Balls will also be culpable, the choice to replace him will then probably be between Chukka Umunna and Mrs Balls, Yvette Cooper
Isabel Oakeshott: YouGov poll for Sunday Times this wkend gives Lab a 9 point lead over Tories. @Ed_Miliband seems to be consolidating his position slightly
The Unite/Grangemouth/Falkirk/Eric Joyce effect perhaps?
This calling in the cops at Grangemouth is killing Ed. Just killing him.
The polling on earth is simply not reflecting the polling in PB Toryworld.
tim doesn't care how Unite behave as long as it doesn't affect Lab polling.
The Labour leadership handed over the evidence to the police. A stark contrast with David Cameron sitting on the evidence during Plebgate
How do you know Cameron didn't give the Downing St CCTV evidence to the police?
It`s quite bizarre the Times` obsession with Falkirk.
Ed`s called in the police,Tom Watson`s been sacked and Unite`s prospective candidate has withdrawn from the race.What else do they want Ed to do?Dissolve the Labour party?
Isn't Common Purpose that organisation that the loons on here were claiming had taken over the entire functions of the state, the left, the Labour Party etc a couple of years ago. I can't remember the exact conspiracy but it rings a bell.
You can include me in those loons, and it's long been known that Cameron and the likes of Maude are involved with Common Purpose. If you want to know why the likes of Nicholson, Thompson and Shoesmith get such vast amounts for being crap at their job then look no further than their Common Purpose training.
Senior Tories are connected to the alleged charity as well, it's the reason why I and others like me bang on about LibLabCon and that there is no difference between them. And before anyone asks I regard the Bildeburg Group as being every bit as disgusting, and I suspect the majority of the British representatives are Common Purpose anyway.
To me voting UKIP is a matter of voting for Common Sense over Common Purpose.
It`s quite bizarre the Times` obsession with Falkirk.
Ed`s called in the police,Tom Watson`s been sacked and the Unite`s prospective candidate has withdrawn from the race.What else do they want Ed to do?Dissolve the Labour party?
Resuspend the obvious miscreants from the Labour Party? Letmebecleariband let it be absolutely clear that he was absolutely furious about the way they'd dragged the Labour Party and the union's reputations down before he knew about the 1000 emails.
FoxinsoxUK/Andy JS - The Liberals have not polled as low as that since they got 7.5% in 1970. The SDP Alliance truly is no more, the social democrats have returned to Ed Miliband's Labour and only the true liberal believers remain!
FoxinsoxUK/Andy JS - The Liberals have not polled as low as that since they got 7.5% in 1970. The SDP Alliance truly is no more, the social democrats have returned to Ed Miliband's Labour and only the true liberal believers remain!
This would be a fine thing, it seems to me. Wasn't the idea of newspapers having to publish a retraction / apology on the same page and with the same prominence as the original article being floated around recently? Coupled with your Small Libel Court, this could really work. When you're elected as part of the next Labour government, make it happen!
Thanks Kevin, and also Life in a Market Town - I have been thinking about putting this idea forward, but wanted to crash-test it in the torrid world of pb.
I may have mentioned this before but while we're doing libel reform it would be good to incentivize having a real-time right to reply. Somebody accusing me of stealing goats on this thread that I'm participating in feels like a different thing to someone accusing me of the same thing in a thread I don't know about, which is in turn different from someone making that accusation on a website or in a newspaper where I can't post a reply at all.
Labour under pressure in Scotland: Sunday Herald "Break your Silence" Falkirk Labour Party Members to Lamont.
Labour on 42% in Scotland and 41% across the UK in tonight's YouGov.
It's killing Ed.
Labour really are struggling at the moment and the blame is fully down to the elephant in the room which is Falkirk. It is all the people on the street are talking about....they have fallen below 39% a full four times in the last twenty Yougov polls. A disaster for Ed M.
That's skewed planet earth polling.
Damn those opinion polls running in the face of the PB Tory agenda.
This would be a fine thing, it seems to me. Wasn't the idea of newspapers having to publish a retraction / apology on the same page and with the same prominence as the original article being floated around recently? Coupled with your Small Libel Court, this could really work. When you're elected as part of the next Labour government, make it happen!
Thanks Kevin, and also Life in a Market Town - I have been thinking about putting this idea forward, but wanted to crash-test it in the torrid world of pb.
I may have mentioned this before but while we're doing libel reform it would be good to incentivize having a real-time right to reply. Somebody accusing me of stealing goats on this threat that I'm participating in feels like a different thing to someone accusing me of the same thing in a thread I don't know about, which is in turn different from someone making that accusation on a website or in a newspaper where I can't post a reply at all.
GeoffM Well clearly she has a qualification which is suitable for a museum with geological exhibits, she could also use the experience she is getting to then apply for a postgraduate course in museum studies or curatorship, perhaps by distance learning to improve her chances of paid employment in the field
Labour under pressure in Scotland: Sunday Herald "Break your Silence" Falkirk Labour Party Members to Lamont.
Labour on 42% in Scotland and 41% across the UK in tonight's YouGov.
It's killing Ed.
Labour on 42% in Scotland is interesting because that's precisely what they got in 2010 down to 2 percentage points: 1,035,528 votes out of 2,465,637 = 42.00%.
GeoffM Well clearly she has a qualification which is suitable for a museum with geological exhibits, she could also use the experience she is getting to then apply for a postgraduate course in museum studies or curatorship, perhaps by distance learning to improve her chances of paid employment in the field
..has..suitable for... could also... to then apply ... or ...perhaps by ... improve her chances ...
A lovely dream scenario. Fill in the blanks differently and I could be Astronomer Royal in 20 years time. But that's it, isn't it? A whole row of hopes strung together with taxpayers money.
If wishes were horses, beggars would ride. I'm never going to be Astronomer Royal and I don't expect you to pay for me to dream about it. She should get a job and stfu.
FoxinsoxUK What social democrat is going to return while Clegg leads the party, or even Cable after tuition fees etc? As for 40 seats, according to Anthony Wells' calculator on UK Polling Report on 7% the LDs would win only 21 seats on the above figures. Indeed, in 1970 they only won 6, but the figures would still be below 23 and 22 the SDP/Alliance won in 1983 and 1987
FoxinsoxUK/Andy JS - The Liberals have not polled as low as that since they got 7.5% in 1970. The SDP Alliance truly is no more, the social democrats have returned to Ed Miliband's Labour and only the true liberal believers remain!
FoxinsoxUK/Andy JS - The Liberals have not polled as low as that since they got 7.5% in 1970. The SDP Alliance truly is no more, the social democrats have returned to Ed Miliband's Labour and only the true liberal believers remain!
That will be the same "true Liberals" who want to stop freedom of speech and deny the British electorate a referendum on the EU. How they have the unmitigated gall to call themselves either Liberal or Democrats is beyond me.
Luckily the vast majority of the electorate has realised this.
Isn't Common Purpose that organisation that the loons on here were claiming had taken over the entire functions of the state, the left, the Labour Party etc a couple of years ago. I can't remember the exact conspiracy but it rings a bell.
You can include me in those loons, and it's long been known that Cameron and the likes of Maude are involved with Common Purpose. If you want to know why the likes of Nicholson, Thompson and Shoesmith get such vast amounts for being crap at their job then look no further than their Common Purpose training.
Senior Tories are connected to the alleged charity as well, it's the reason why I and others like me bang on about LibLabCon and that there is no difference between them. And before anyone asks I regard the Bildeburg Group as being every bit as disgusting, and I suspect the majority of the British representatives are Common Purpose anyway.
To me voting UKIP is a matter of voting for Common Sense over Common Purpose.
Cameron merely supports an organisation which tries to improve relations with India. It has nothing to do with press regulation. This is merely an attempt to smear Cameron by the likes of the DT. The fact that CP may have encouraged this venture is irrelevant, much as I am suspiscious of CP.
So tim, do you actually know that Cameron sat on the evidence for 3 months? Or is it just your published opinion? And, if your opinion is proven to not be based in fact, do you agree with Roger that you should be subject to statutory regulation? And so presumably prosecuted if you're proven wrong?
So tim, do you actually know that Cameron sat on the evidence for 3 months? Or is it just your published opinion? And, if your opinion is proven to not be based in fact, do you agree with Roger that you should be subject to statutory regulation? And so presumably prosecuted if you're proven wrong?
Ditto for Mrs Cameron's calls for military strikes, Toby Young's "fixing" of his school's admissions, and countless other "facts" you've given us?
GeoffM No one is saying she is aiming to be Director of the Natural History Museum tomorrow, simply that she wants a paid role in a museum as an assistant curator or something similar which best suits her qualifications. Being astronomer royal is a ridiculous example, you may want to be a solicitor without demanding to be head of the Law Society or a banker without being ceo or chairman of HSBC!
In any case she has now taken a paid role in a supermarket of her own volition, and presumably will still seek to gain voluntary experience in a museum on a part time basis or at weekends
Mitchell police face new probe Officers accused of giving misleading accounts of a meeting with Andrew Mitchell are facing a new investigation by the IPCC.
I may have mentioned this before but while we're doing libel reform it would be good to incentivize having a real-time right to reply. Somebody accusing me of stealing goats on this thread that I'm participating in feels like a different thing to someone accusing me of the same thing in a thread I don't know about, which is in turn different from someone making that accusation on a website or in a newspaper where I can't post a reply at all.
PS I have never stolen a goat.
How would you incentivise it? Would the moderator blank out the post till you'd had the chance to reply, or what?
Carlotta She has proved her point in the courts though, but clearly just took the job to avoid further media intrusion. Entering the museums sector remains her long-term goal
GeoffM No one is saying she is aiming to be Director of the Natural History Museum tomorrow, simply that she wants a paid role in a museum as an assistant curator or something similar which best suits her qualifications. Being astronomer royal is a ridiculous example, you may want to be a solicitor without demanding to be head of the Law Society or a banker without being ceo or chairman of HSBC!
I wasn't demanding anything! Are you saying she can dream of a shining city upon a hill but I can't?
Are you being sexist or just disrespectful to astronomers?
Edit: "Carlotta She has proved her point in the courts though, but clearly just took the job to avoid further media intrusion"
She took this into the public domain in the first place. She (and you) can't claim 'intrusion'
"Q: You are a princess back in Zambia. Tell us about your name and your status as royalty."
"A: My dad is half Greek and half Zambian. He is Kazembe, which is “Chief”, and is part of the royal tribe in Zambia. I therefore took on the name Lukwesa, which is the female form of “Chief”, out of respect and because I am essentially royalty. This has also been passed on to my daughter. My mom is half Portuguese and Zimbabwean, so we are a mixed family."
HYUFD - she failed on her main point - that working for free was slavery - what she won on was poorly drafted regulations which the government has legislated its way around.
@compouter1 The Grangemouth closure announcement was BIG news in Scotland, far more than anywhere else in the UK in the last few weeks. Even the partial closure of Grangemouth would have been devastating to the local economy surrounding Falkirk, never mind the risk of it becoming a full closure with all the fallout that entailed for the whole economy of Scotland. And neither the Unite Union or the Labour party come out of this well, with some voters I know talking of having flashbacks to the 70's and 80's with big industry closures.
Thatcher may have been blamed for much of the ills that beset Scotland's traditonal industries back in the 80's and 90's! But not this time, we had a Scottish and Westminster Government glued at the hip and both prepared to support and back the INEOS plan to save and invest in Grangemouth to assure its future for years to come. No, the sticking point was Unite and its dispute over Stevie Deans rather than the survival package, it was the threat of strike action over the former that saw the plant initially shut down and almost never get fired up again!
Throw in the importance of the Indy Referendum next year, and you might begin to understand this and the sheer level of churn in political debate up here that is going to settle down before the GE and the subsequent Holyrood election that follows the year after. If previous elections taught you anything, it should be to note how savvy Scots voters have become at tactically voting as well as differentiating between what they want out of Holyrood and Westminster. The SNP gained a majority over Labour at Holyrood last time despite the voting system aimed to deny it!
Murdo Fraser picks up on this internal churn in that Dunfermline by-election from a Conservative angle regarding those Libdem/Tory switchers vs Tory voters who tactically voted Labour to oust the SNP there. Even with UKIP throwing their hat in the ring this time, the Tory still vote went up in seat where they had no hope. Worth looking at that Lord Ashcroft poll on Scotland again in light of recent local/Holyrood by election results.
"YouGov research has revealed the public think those on lower incomes such as nurses are teachers are underpaid and those on higher incomes such as CEOs, MPs and doctors are overpaid."
@fitalass - many of the English posters do not remotely get the seismic nature of Grangemouth - it wasn't just "another plant" going to be closed. Fortunately they can educate themselves as YouGov did a Scottish sample (1037 base size) on it:
GeoffM You can dream as much as she can, but you would need to get some experience in astronomy and a qualification in it before you can become the next Sir Patrick Moore or Sir Martin Rees. She also got the media coverage she wanted to highlight the issue
Carlotta Vance But she was voluntarily working for free in a museum anyway so the 'slavery' point was never really the issue. On the legislation, she has at least managed to get it redrafted which is what she wanted
How would you incentivise it? Would the moderator blank out the post till you'd had the chance to reply, or what?
PS Put that goat down AT ONCE.
Well, you already have damages in the case of a libel claim, so the right to reply could be a mitigating factor that reduces your liability in the case of a claim. That could work either on a per-case level - damages for a situation where there was a practical ability to reply would be lower than damages for a situation where there wasn't - or as a set of rules that you opted into, so Mike might agree to follow a set of rules that allow people who are criticized to reply and the fact that he was following those rules would mean lower damages if he was sued. (That would incentivize a right to reply even when you weren't worried about litigation in that particular case - for example, Mike might know that I couldn't afford to sue him over the goat theft issue, but to get the benefit of lower damages if he was sued by Lord McAlpine he'd have to extend the right of reply to me as well.)
As far as what you'd actually do at a practical level goes given that legal environment, a lot of it would happily coincide with normal good manners. For example: - If you wrote a newspaper article, you'd want to let the person know about it before it was published and give them time to write up a reply which you would link. - If you were moderating a site, you'd take a harder line on things people couldn't reply to. For example, I moderate a Facebook group, and we had someone getting into a lot of arguments with other posters who for various reasons we ended up banning from the group. Once we'd done that, I also started moderating posts _about_ that person, since they weren't in a position to reply to them. In some situations you might actually do what you say and moderate a post until somebody could reply. In other situations, there might actually be a response to the claim already in circulation, so you might go easier on the moderation of a post that linked to the response.
GeoffM You can dream as much as she can, but you would need to get some experience in astronomy and a qualification in it before you can become the next Sir Patrick Moore or Mervyn Rees. She also got the media coverage she wanted to highlight the issue
Actually Patrick Moore didn't have any formal qualifications in astronomy iirc. I'm not sure who Mervyn Rees is.
EDIT: Ah, I see you've now edited your post to 'Martin Rees', the current Astronomer Royal. Well done.
However I do have some qualifications in the field and was once privileged enough to chair a seminar addressed by Prof Sir Arnold Wolfendale, the 14th Astronomer Royal. That's why I chose that example as it wasn't as random to me as it might be to you.
I sat down after introducing him as the keynote speaker and did dream that I would be one of his successors. But I didn't hold the taxpayer hostage over that dream. She should suck it up and get a job.
The Grangemouth closure and the subsequent coverage up here really did make an impact. Take where I live in the North East of Scotland, despite how far away it is from Falkirk, you could understand the seismic impact here with relation to the Oil and Gas Industry in the North Sea as a result. Folk were talking about it, and more importantly they were concerned about the impact it would have on Scotland.
@fitalass - many of the English posters do not remotely get the seismic nature of Grangemouth - it wasn't just "another plant" going to be closed. Fortunately they can educate themselves as YouGov did a Scottish sample (1037 base size) on it:
GeoffM You are missing the point again, she simply wanted to start at an assistant curator level, not go straight to being Director of the Natural History Museum even if she could dream about it as you could dream of being Astronomer Royal. Of course, as I pointed out, she now has a paid job
HYUFD I'm not accepting your point. That's not the same as missing the point.
I'm glad she's off the taxpayers' teat temporarily, although I think her employer is brave. I wouldn't have taken on anyone with a track record of whining to the courts when she doesn't like something. She'll be back claiming compensation for something fairly soon - I reckon a claim for constructive dismissal within 5 years is pretty much nailed on.
After that a career as a Labour MP seems inevitable.
Plebgate police are told to apologise or face a charge of contempt Officers are to be brought back before the Commons committee as a report savages their evidence
GeoffM She wanted to make a point in law, and she got some support from the courts which has led the legislation to be adjusted, whether she becomes a Labour MP time will tell
Like the Unite team at Grangemouth, they are determined to wring out every drop of political damage to the organisation and members they purport to represent rather than bravely front up to their mistakes and apologise to those they sought to undermine and harm through their misrepresentation.
Plebgate police are told to apologise or face a charge of contempt Officers are to be brought back before the Commons committee as a report savages their evidence
Will the fear of another dollop of unfettered French-style socialist spending which the nation simply cannot start afford do for Labour at the next General Election?
Probably. The early warning signs are there alright with the polls slowly but surely showing support for Miliband starting to ebb away as this prospect starts to hit home with the electorate.
Do Labour get better results the less polls adjust for certainty to vote?
Probably - if you look at the Mori polls, Labour definitely do worse in people who are 10/10 certain to vote (which is what Mori use for their headline results) than among the whole sample.
Comments
Ed`s called in the police,Tom Watson`s been sacked and Unite`s prospective candidate has withdrawn from the race.What else do they want Ed to do?Dissolve the Labour party?
Senior Tories are connected to the alleged charity as well, it's the reason why I and others like me bang on about LibLabCon and that there is no difference between them. And before anyone asks I regard the Bildeburg Group as being every bit as disgusting, and I suspect the majority of the British representatives are Common Purpose anyway.
To me voting UKIP is a matter of voting for Common Sense over Common Purpose.
PS I have never stolen a goat.
http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/The_Men_Who_Stare_at_Goats
A "non-story" in other words?
A lovely dream scenario. Fill in the blanks differently and I could be Astronomer Royal in 20 years time. But that's it, isn't it? A whole row of hopes strung together with taxpayers money.
If wishes were horses, beggars would ride. I'm never going to be Astronomer Royal and I don't expect you to pay for me to dream about it. She should get a job and stfu.
"340 MPs claim £200,000 on expenses for energy bills"
http://www.telegraph.co.uk/finance/newsbysector/energy/10423252/340-MPs-claim-200000-on-expenses-for-energy-bills.html
Officers accused of giving misleading accounts of a meeting with Andrew Mitchell are facing a new investigation by the IPCC.
http://www.itv.com/news/story/2013-11-03/andrew-mitchell-police-face-ipcc-probe/
PS Put that goat down AT ONCE.
Are you being sexist or just disrespectful to astronomers?
Edit: "Carlotta She has proved her point in the courts though, but clearly just took the job to avoid further media intrusion"
She took this into the public domain in the first place. She (and you) can't claim 'intrusion'
http://carolralefeta.com/.../SOUL Magazine - 2013 03 - Return to Africa.pdf
http://www.thenaturallounge.com/interview-with-lukwesa-burak-sky-news-presenter-and-founder-of-gidore/
"Q: You are a princess back in Zambia. Tell us about your name and your status as royalty."
"A: My dad is half Greek and half Zambian. He is Kazembe, which is “Chief”, and is part of the royal tribe in Zambia. I therefore took on the name Lukwesa, which is the female form of “Chief”, out of respect and because I am essentially royalty. This has also been passed on to my daughter. My mom is half Portuguese and Zimbabwean, so we are a mixed family."
http://www.telegraph.co.uk/news/politics/labour/10421675/Once-again-Labours-future-rests-on-two-bright-boys.html
Thatcher may have been blamed for much of the ills that beset Scotland's traditonal industries back in the 80's and 90's! But not this time, we had a Scottish and Westminster Government glued at the hip and both prepared to support and back the INEOS plan to save and invest in Grangemouth to assure its future for years to come. No, the sticking point was Unite and its dispute over Stevie Deans rather than the survival package, it was the threat of strike action over the former that saw the plant initially shut down and almost never get fired up again!
Throw in the importance of the Indy Referendum next year, and you might begin to understand this and the sheer level of churn in political debate up here that is going to settle down before the GE and the subsequent Holyrood election that follows the year after. If previous elections taught you anything, it should be to note how savvy Scots voters have become at tactically voting as well as differentiating between what they want out of Holyrood and Westminster. The SNP gained a majority over Labour at Holyrood last time despite the voting system aimed to deny it!
Murdo Fraser picks up on this internal churn in that Dunfermline by-election from a Conservative angle regarding those Libdem/Tory switchers vs Tory voters who tactically voted Labour to oust the SNP there. Even with UKIP throwing their hat in the ring this time, the Tory still vote went up in seat where they had no hope. Worth looking at that Lord Ashcroft poll on Scotland again in light of recent local/Holyrood by election results.
Think Scotland - Lessons from Dunfermline
http://yougov.co.uk/news/2013/11/02/salaries/
http://d25d2506sfb94s.cloudfront.net/cumulus_uploads/document/q9z5vq6rk6/YG-Archive-Grangemouth-Plant-results-011113-Scottish-sample.pdf
Unite got it wrong.
As far as what you'd actually do at a practical level goes given that legal environment, a lot of it would happily coincide with normal good manners. For example:
- If you wrote a newspaper article, you'd want to let the person know about it before it was published and give them time to write up a reply which you would link.
- If you were moderating a site, you'd take a harder line on things people couldn't reply to. For example, I moderate a Facebook group, and we had someone getting into a lot of arguments with other posters who for various reasons we ended up banning from the group. Once we'd done that, I also started moderating posts _about_ that person, since they weren't in a position to reply to them. In some situations you might actually do what you say and moderate a post until somebody could reply. In other situations, there might actually be a response to the claim already in circulation, so you might go easier on the moderation of a post that linked to the response.
EDIT: Ah, I see you've now edited your post to 'Martin Rees', the current Astronomer Royal. Well done.
However I do have some qualifications in the field and was once privileged enough to chair a seminar addressed by Prof Sir Arnold Wolfendale, the 14th Astronomer Royal. That's why I chose that example as it wasn't as random to me as it might be to you.
I sat down after introducing him as the keynote speaker and did dream that I would be one of his successors. But I didn't hold the taxpayer hostage over that dream. She should suck it up and get a job.
I'm glad she's off the taxpayers' teat temporarily, although I think her employer is brave. I wouldn't have taken on anyone with a track record of whining to the courts when she doesn't like something. She'll be back claiming compensation for something fairly soon - I reckon a claim for constructive dismissal within 5 years is pretty much nailed on.
After that a career as a Labour MP seems inevitable.
Officers are to be brought back before the Commons committee as a report savages their evidence
http://www.theguardian.com/politics/2013/nov/03/plebgate-police-federation-select-committee
Probably. The early warning signs are there alright with the polls slowly but surely showing support for Miliband starting to ebb away as this prospect starts to hit home with the electorate.